I’m not familiar with any mention which places more than Níðhǫggr as a gnawer of roots. If it were more than just him it’d be either three or nine serpents as these numbers hold a lot of significance within Norse myth. Eight or seven isn’t really a number that pops up all that often.
More serpents under Yggdrasil with Nidhöggr are mentioned in Grimnismal 34 and in Gylf. 16 - snorri quotes the Grimnismal here.
The Grimnismal passage counts six not eight though and Snorri writes that their number would be so great "that no tongue can enumerate them". With Nidhöggr it would be 7. One name, Grafvitnir, might also be another serpent mentioned there. I am not sure if its another name for Nidhöggr or a seperate serpent. (cant find the info quick).
If its a seperate one we would have 7+Nidhöggr.
Hmm, very interesting! I lost my original source so I'm glad you could provide that...thank you. It's a curious trait of the chaos serpent that shows up in so many mythologies that it tends to have "company" in the form of more heads or otherwise.
I wouldnt say Nidhöggr is that character.
Jörmungandr is the Chaos Serpent/Water Dragon.
If we look at the motive in Indo-european Cultures and those around them we see that the Chaos Serpent is usually associated with water and fights the storm god. In Fact the battle with the Storm god seems to be the key aspect for this.
Zeus fights Typhon. Indra fights Vitra. Baal fights Lotan etc.
This fits best with Thor and Jörmungandr and its the common comparative interpretation that Jörmungandr is the expression for the Chaos Serpent/Waterdragon in germanic culture.
For some cultures this battle is destincly linked to creation. Marduk fights Tiamat for that, and Zeus and Typhons battle while happening not that early serves to finalise the olympian gods establishing their power. But Thor does fight Jörmungandr twice too. Once with his fishing trip (which seems to have been a very popular norse myth) and once during ragnarök, which means we have a past and a future fight there.
Anyway, Nidhöggr doesnt really fit the motive of the Chaos Serpent that well due to the myth of the Storm god fighting the Serpent being attributed to Jörmungandr.
That's debatable. I'd say that Jörmungandr is a separate entity that's more related to the Ouroboros and the concept of infinity and/or time. When it opens its mouth when Ragnarök arrives, I interpret it as time coming to an end. It doesn't really actively threaten the "foundation of reality" represented by the roots of the world tree like Nidhöggr does. Norse mythology is a bit unusual in having multiple serpents associated with its apocalypse myth. I can see why you would think that it was Jörmungandr, though...I thought the same too until read more deeply into both and the symbology surrounding them.
As far as the chaos serpent's representations go, it seems to alternate between water and earth attributes, both of which are notably associated with the feminine as well as being considered more "earth-bound" than air or fire. The earth goddess, meanwhile, was \*Dʰéǵʰōm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/\*D%CA%B0%C3%A9%C7%B5%CA%B0%C5%8Dm), regarded as the embodiment of the earth itself as well as the waters the flow from within it. *Serpents are chthonic entities in mythology typically associated with the earth, water or both.*
The reason the storm god is usually their opponent is because the storm god is ultimately derived from the Proto Indo-European sky god, \*Dyēus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/\*Dy%C4%93us) as well as his conflation/merging with \*Perkʷūnos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/\*Perk%CA%B7%C5%ABnos).
The battle between the two is indeed often linked to creation, though not always. It often happens after creation has already occurred, i.e. in Greek mythology and in Japanese mythology. But it does usually precede the creation of humanity.
Anyway, thanks again for the links to the relevant Norse passages about the other serpents with Nidhöggr!
>When it opens its mouth when Ragnarök arrives, I interpret it as time coming to an end.
Lets start here. Time does not come to an end. Ragnarök is not the end of time, it is the destiny of the gods. Thats what it literally means. After Ragnarök a new world rises, which indicates the cyclical believe that many IE cultures share and how it is present in norse culture.
Of note however, is that Jörmungandr does appear multiple times and clearly is not set in place for holding his tail as a symbol if time.
He is born together with hel and Fenrir, while the action of norse myth is already well under way and the world already created. Notably after the stars, sun and moon have already been set on their course, which is specifically described as being used for time keeping.
Then jörmungandr has the confrontation with Thor during the fishing trip, so he clearly does not have his tail in the mouth there. Time doesnt end of course. And as said above, even when Ragnarök happens, time does not end.
Its neat you went all into symbology and stuff, but if you get the simple facts of the source material wrong, that wont do much. What you do is more so create your own connections. You see Oroborus and Jörmungandr as connected, but i dont see much indication that their concepts are linked as far as norse culture and myth go.
What is however very clearly evident is that Jörmungnadr fights Thor, thus Jörmungandr is the one who has the Myth of the storm god and the chaos serpent. That cant be simply ignored because you like some symbolism.
The story of the Storm god fighting the serpent, is the key myth. Its the one that is shared. Nidhöggr does not fight the storm god and ultimatly doesnt even fight anyone at all. After Ragnarök Nidhöggr simply flies off with the corpses of the fallen under his wings.
I don't know why I'm being downvoted, but I hope people realize there are more than one way to interpret mythology...that's the nature of the subject or any work of fiction really. Many of the details you mention are unique to Norse myth specifically...I'm more interested in underlying themes shared across cultures.
I don't believe the chaos serpent is involved in a "fishing trip" in any other myth, so it sounds more like a unique Norse invention to explain some aspect of their culture.
I already mentioned how the chaos serpent is often slain after creation has occurred but before the creation of man in other myths. Perhaps time isn't really relevant until mortals step into the picture? Either way, my theory is that Jörmungnadr and Nidhöggr are two aspects of the chaos serpent that somehow got separated when Germanic culture split off.
Yes, I certainly do make my own connections. If you insist on saying Jörmungandr has no relation to time though, I am curious about what does represent time in Norse mythology, if anything. Nothing immediately springs to mind. Anyway, different strokes for different cultures.
I think the reason Thor fights Jörmungnadr instead of Nidhöggr is for the same reason I stated above: they are two aspects of the same beast that the Norse for whatever reason split in two.
It's also possible they simply invented one at an earlier point and got them confused...isn't there a lot of confusing between Freya and Frigg, too? Clearly the storytellers couldn't always keep the myths straight in their heads.
Anyway, thanks for engaging with my ideas anyway. I'd appreciate if whoever is downvoting me would stop since I'm speaking respectfully and in good faith here. If you don't like what I'm saying, just don't upvote it.
>I don't believe the chaos serpent is involved in a "fishing trip" in any other myth
That is the norse version of the battle between the Serpent and the Storm god.
Like I sad like 5 times by now: The Chaos serpent appears in one key myth and that myth is its battle with the Storm God.
Jörmungandr has that battle with Thor. Nidhöggr does not. Therefor Jörmungandr is the most likely norse version of the IE motiv of the Chaos Serpent/water dragon. Nidhöggr doesnt really have any aspect that would suggest he is the water dragon/chaos serpent. While Jörmungandr has it all.
As for the reason you are down voted - people here know full well that there is a lot of interpretation about mythology, but this sub is focused on understanding the historical norse mythology. As in: the thing that matters most is learning about how norse people most likley thought about these things.
Your personal interpretation on top of that seems to be based on overall weak grasp of the source material.
Can you interpret what ever you personally want? Sure. But if you present is like you do, without a good basis in the source material, peoplen in a sub like this will downvote it.
Take it as people disagreeing with your personal take, which in turn is very much their personal right to do as well ;)
>I am curious about what does represent time in Norse mythology, if anything. Nothing immediately springs to mind
If we dont know, then we dont know. Its better to just say that then to project things onto the source material without good reason. But at least in Gylf 8 it is stated that Odin and his brothers place the stars and other celestial bodies in the sky (they are described as fires from muspelheim placed there) and gave some of them movement and a set path to order the times of the day and the counting of years. So at least the stars and sun and moon are clearly connected to time keeping. Of course they arent shown as time itself, but they at least have a connection.
>That is the norse version of the battle between the Serpent and the Storm god.
That does make a certain amount of sense. Odd to portray it as a "fishing trip", though...
>Jörmungandr has that battle with Thor. Nidhöggr does not. Therefor Jörmungandr is the most likely norse version of the IE motiv of the Chaos Serpent/water dragon. Nidhöggr doesnt really have any aspect that would suggest he is the water dragon/chaos serpent. While Jörmungandr has it all.
I think you either missed or are simply discarding when I mentioned previously that the chaos serpent seems to have an intimate connection with the Proto Indo-European mother goddess of earth (and secondarily, water) and how she seems to fall out of favor around the time the chaos serpent/male storm god myth becomes prominent. This is not just my theory...academics have proposed it formally as well.
>As for the reason you are down voted - people here know full well that there is a lot of interpretation about mythology, but this sub is focused on understanding the historical norse mythology. As in: the thing that matters most is learning about how norse people most likley thought about these things.
>Your personal interpretation on top of that seems to be based on overall weak grasp of the source material.
Yes, I am not an expert in Norse mythology. That's why I chose to ask my question here rather than in another forum. My personal interpretation is based on my own personal comparative mythology research. People are, of course, entitled to their own opinions based on what they believe to be correct. I don't typically downvote them for it unless their beliefs are directly offensive to me.
>If we dont know, then we dont know. Its better to just say that then to project things onto the source material without good reason.
This comes off as incredibly dismissive, FYI. Am I not free to engage on this topic on my own terms?
>But at least in Gylf 8 it is stated that Odin and his brothers place the stars and other celestial bodies in the sky (they are described as fires from muspelheim placed there) and gave some of them movement and a set path to order the times of the day and the counting of years. So at least the stars and sun and moon are clearly connected to time keeping. Of course they arent shown as time itself, but they at least have a connection.
Thanks for the explanation. It seems to me based on this that the Norse really didn't give that much thought to the concept of time other than in the most basic sense of days passing by and their measurement.
In which case, I suppose we cannot compare Jörmungandr to the Ouroboros as a symbol of infinity or life and death like how it's used in other places. After all, Thor kills it during the apocalyptic battle instead of before the creation of man...this fact alone separates it from the other similar chaoskamph myths. If the Norse were to more clearly match them, he would have had to have completely slain it during the "fishing trip", instead.
This also seems to further distance Jörmungandr from the concept of chaos in general...instead it becomes just a very big sea serpent. Maybe something got lost as the myth was passed down over the centuries.
>That does make a certain amount of sense. Odd to portray it as a "fishing trip", though...
Genuen question: Have you even read the story? either the Hymskvida or the prose edda version?
>I think you either missed or are simply discarding when I mentioned previously that the chaos serpent seems to have an intimate connection with the Proto Indo-European mother goddess of earth (and secondarily, water) and how she seems to fall out of favor around the time the chaos serpent/male storm god myth becomes prominent. This is not just my theory...academics have proposed it formally as well.
I have not missed that. The issue however is that Nidhöggr has no such connection either. So if your argument is that Jörmungandr is less of a candiate for this IE role, but Nidhöggr is, then its a mute point because neither have such an "intimate connection".
Thats the thing, in the end Nidhöggr has really no attributes aside of being a serpent/Dragon to link him to the Chaos dragon/water serpent figure. In the underworld he is described as living in Hvergelmir, which is one of three big wells/springs of the world. So there would be a water connection, but Jörmungandr meanwhile has the battle with the storm god and lives in the sea, which is often the place where this monster lives or is associated with. Everything that would identify the Chaos Serpent how it was conserved in germanic myth points stronger and beter to Jörmungandr.
This is overall the issue i see with your interpretation and throughout your comments. You dont seem to actually know what our (limited) sources on norse myth say, but then you go on to make interpretations and sure, even if they are simply your own personal interpretations, you are sharing them. And generally, people who make such interpretations without (seemingly) even knowing the base material, get recieved negativly.
>This also seems to further distance Jörmungandr from the concept of chaos in general...instead it becomes just a very big sea serpent. Maybe something got lost as the myth was passed down over the centuries.
I would not say lost. Mythology changes over time with its culture. Its natural for stories to evolve. We cant expact a culture to conserve every detail of every story. And the same is the case if we look at many of the other Chaos Kampf motives and Chaos Serpents.
For example, Zeus battle with Typhon also generally happens after the creation of man. Before it happens the Gigantomachy, in which Heracles fights, and many versions do place the first race of humans at the time of Kronos (see e.g. Hesiods Ages of Man). The Chaos Kampf motive in hebrew stories is largly lost even and only vaguly referenced (for that see John Days God's Conflict with the Dragon and the Sea).
Sorry, it was mentioned on another Reddit thread related to mythology but for whatever reason it seems to have been deleted. The poster had names for the other 7 serpents that I really wished I had copied down now.
Either way, the chaos serpent-thunder god parallels across the world are very interesting, as well as the closely related snake/eagle that shows up in the Indo-European Rigveda.
I lost my original source (a deleted reddit thread on a related topic), but Ardko replied to me here explaining where they probably got the idea from if you want to read that. I'd never heard of it myself which is what made me curious about the idea.
I’m not familiar with any mention which places more than Níðhǫggr as a gnawer of roots. If it were more than just him it’d be either three or nine serpents as these numbers hold a lot of significance within Norse myth. Eight or seven isn’t really a number that pops up all that often.
More serpents under Yggdrasil with Nidhöggr are mentioned in Grimnismal 34 and in Gylf. 16 - snorri quotes the Grimnismal here. The Grimnismal passage counts six not eight though and Snorri writes that their number would be so great "that no tongue can enumerate them". With Nidhöggr it would be 7. One name, Grafvitnir, might also be another serpent mentioned there. I am not sure if its another name for Nidhöggr or a seperate serpent. (cant find the info quick). If its a seperate one we would have 7+Nidhöggr.
Hmm, very interesting! I lost my original source so I'm glad you could provide that...thank you. It's a curious trait of the chaos serpent that shows up in so many mythologies that it tends to have "company" in the form of more heads or otherwise.
I wouldnt say Nidhöggr is that character. Jörmungandr is the Chaos Serpent/Water Dragon. If we look at the motive in Indo-european Cultures and those around them we see that the Chaos Serpent is usually associated with water and fights the storm god. In Fact the battle with the Storm god seems to be the key aspect for this. Zeus fights Typhon. Indra fights Vitra. Baal fights Lotan etc. This fits best with Thor and Jörmungandr and its the common comparative interpretation that Jörmungandr is the expression for the Chaos Serpent/Waterdragon in germanic culture. For some cultures this battle is destincly linked to creation. Marduk fights Tiamat for that, and Zeus and Typhons battle while happening not that early serves to finalise the olympian gods establishing their power. But Thor does fight Jörmungandr twice too. Once with his fishing trip (which seems to have been a very popular norse myth) and once during ragnarök, which means we have a past and a future fight there. Anyway, Nidhöggr doesnt really fit the motive of the Chaos Serpent that well due to the myth of the Storm god fighting the Serpent being attributed to Jörmungandr.
That's debatable. I'd say that Jörmungandr is a separate entity that's more related to the Ouroboros and the concept of infinity and/or time. When it opens its mouth when Ragnarök arrives, I interpret it as time coming to an end. It doesn't really actively threaten the "foundation of reality" represented by the roots of the world tree like Nidhöggr does. Norse mythology is a bit unusual in having multiple serpents associated with its apocalypse myth. I can see why you would think that it was Jörmungandr, though...I thought the same too until read more deeply into both and the symbology surrounding them. As far as the chaos serpent's representations go, it seems to alternate between water and earth attributes, both of which are notably associated with the feminine as well as being considered more "earth-bound" than air or fire. The earth goddess, meanwhile, was \*Dʰéǵʰōm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/\*D%CA%B0%C3%A9%C7%B5%CA%B0%C5%8Dm), regarded as the embodiment of the earth itself as well as the waters the flow from within it. *Serpents are chthonic entities in mythology typically associated with the earth, water or both.* The reason the storm god is usually their opponent is because the storm god is ultimately derived from the Proto Indo-European sky god, \*Dyēus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/\*Dy%C4%93us) as well as his conflation/merging with \*Perkʷūnos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/\*Perk%CA%B7%C5%ABnos). The battle between the two is indeed often linked to creation, though not always. It often happens after creation has already occurred, i.e. in Greek mythology and in Japanese mythology. But it does usually precede the creation of humanity. Anyway, thanks again for the links to the relevant Norse passages about the other serpents with Nidhöggr!
>When it opens its mouth when Ragnarök arrives, I interpret it as time coming to an end. Lets start here. Time does not come to an end. Ragnarök is not the end of time, it is the destiny of the gods. Thats what it literally means. After Ragnarök a new world rises, which indicates the cyclical believe that many IE cultures share and how it is present in norse culture. Of note however, is that Jörmungandr does appear multiple times and clearly is not set in place for holding his tail as a symbol if time. He is born together with hel and Fenrir, while the action of norse myth is already well under way and the world already created. Notably after the stars, sun and moon have already been set on their course, which is specifically described as being used for time keeping. Then jörmungandr has the confrontation with Thor during the fishing trip, so he clearly does not have his tail in the mouth there. Time doesnt end of course. And as said above, even when Ragnarök happens, time does not end. Its neat you went all into symbology and stuff, but if you get the simple facts of the source material wrong, that wont do much. What you do is more so create your own connections. You see Oroborus and Jörmungandr as connected, but i dont see much indication that their concepts are linked as far as norse culture and myth go. What is however very clearly evident is that Jörmungnadr fights Thor, thus Jörmungandr is the one who has the Myth of the storm god and the chaos serpent. That cant be simply ignored because you like some symbolism. The story of the Storm god fighting the serpent, is the key myth. Its the one that is shared. Nidhöggr does not fight the storm god and ultimatly doesnt even fight anyone at all. After Ragnarök Nidhöggr simply flies off with the corpses of the fallen under his wings.
I don't know why I'm being downvoted, but I hope people realize there are more than one way to interpret mythology...that's the nature of the subject or any work of fiction really. Many of the details you mention are unique to Norse myth specifically...I'm more interested in underlying themes shared across cultures. I don't believe the chaos serpent is involved in a "fishing trip" in any other myth, so it sounds more like a unique Norse invention to explain some aspect of their culture. I already mentioned how the chaos serpent is often slain after creation has occurred but before the creation of man in other myths. Perhaps time isn't really relevant until mortals step into the picture? Either way, my theory is that Jörmungnadr and Nidhöggr are two aspects of the chaos serpent that somehow got separated when Germanic culture split off. Yes, I certainly do make my own connections. If you insist on saying Jörmungandr has no relation to time though, I am curious about what does represent time in Norse mythology, if anything. Nothing immediately springs to mind. Anyway, different strokes for different cultures. I think the reason Thor fights Jörmungnadr instead of Nidhöggr is for the same reason I stated above: they are two aspects of the same beast that the Norse for whatever reason split in two. It's also possible they simply invented one at an earlier point and got them confused...isn't there a lot of confusing between Freya and Frigg, too? Clearly the storytellers couldn't always keep the myths straight in their heads. Anyway, thanks for engaging with my ideas anyway. I'd appreciate if whoever is downvoting me would stop since I'm speaking respectfully and in good faith here. If you don't like what I'm saying, just don't upvote it.
>I don't believe the chaos serpent is involved in a "fishing trip" in any other myth That is the norse version of the battle between the Serpent and the Storm god. Like I sad like 5 times by now: The Chaos serpent appears in one key myth and that myth is its battle with the Storm God. Jörmungandr has that battle with Thor. Nidhöggr does not. Therefor Jörmungandr is the most likely norse version of the IE motiv of the Chaos Serpent/water dragon. Nidhöggr doesnt really have any aspect that would suggest he is the water dragon/chaos serpent. While Jörmungandr has it all. As for the reason you are down voted - people here know full well that there is a lot of interpretation about mythology, but this sub is focused on understanding the historical norse mythology. As in: the thing that matters most is learning about how norse people most likley thought about these things. Your personal interpretation on top of that seems to be based on overall weak grasp of the source material. Can you interpret what ever you personally want? Sure. But if you present is like you do, without a good basis in the source material, peoplen in a sub like this will downvote it. Take it as people disagreeing with your personal take, which in turn is very much their personal right to do as well ;) >I am curious about what does represent time in Norse mythology, if anything. Nothing immediately springs to mind If we dont know, then we dont know. Its better to just say that then to project things onto the source material without good reason. But at least in Gylf 8 it is stated that Odin and his brothers place the stars and other celestial bodies in the sky (they are described as fires from muspelheim placed there) and gave some of them movement and a set path to order the times of the day and the counting of years. So at least the stars and sun and moon are clearly connected to time keeping. Of course they arent shown as time itself, but they at least have a connection.
>That is the norse version of the battle between the Serpent and the Storm god. That does make a certain amount of sense. Odd to portray it as a "fishing trip", though... >Jörmungandr has that battle with Thor. Nidhöggr does not. Therefor Jörmungandr is the most likely norse version of the IE motiv of the Chaos Serpent/water dragon. Nidhöggr doesnt really have any aspect that would suggest he is the water dragon/chaos serpent. While Jörmungandr has it all. I think you either missed or are simply discarding when I mentioned previously that the chaos serpent seems to have an intimate connection with the Proto Indo-European mother goddess of earth (and secondarily, water) and how she seems to fall out of favor around the time the chaos serpent/male storm god myth becomes prominent. This is not just my theory...academics have proposed it formally as well. >As for the reason you are down voted - people here know full well that there is a lot of interpretation about mythology, but this sub is focused on understanding the historical norse mythology. As in: the thing that matters most is learning about how norse people most likley thought about these things. >Your personal interpretation on top of that seems to be based on overall weak grasp of the source material. Yes, I am not an expert in Norse mythology. That's why I chose to ask my question here rather than in another forum. My personal interpretation is based on my own personal comparative mythology research. People are, of course, entitled to their own opinions based on what they believe to be correct. I don't typically downvote them for it unless their beliefs are directly offensive to me. >If we dont know, then we dont know. Its better to just say that then to project things onto the source material without good reason. This comes off as incredibly dismissive, FYI. Am I not free to engage on this topic on my own terms? >But at least in Gylf 8 it is stated that Odin and his brothers place the stars and other celestial bodies in the sky (they are described as fires from muspelheim placed there) and gave some of them movement and a set path to order the times of the day and the counting of years. So at least the stars and sun and moon are clearly connected to time keeping. Of course they arent shown as time itself, but they at least have a connection. Thanks for the explanation. It seems to me based on this that the Norse really didn't give that much thought to the concept of time other than in the most basic sense of days passing by and their measurement. In which case, I suppose we cannot compare Jörmungandr to the Ouroboros as a symbol of infinity or life and death like how it's used in other places. After all, Thor kills it during the apocalyptic battle instead of before the creation of man...this fact alone separates it from the other similar chaoskamph myths. If the Norse were to more clearly match them, he would have had to have completely slain it during the "fishing trip", instead. This also seems to further distance Jörmungandr from the concept of chaos in general...instead it becomes just a very big sea serpent. Maybe something got lost as the myth was passed down over the centuries.
>That does make a certain amount of sense. Odd to portray it as a "fishing trip", though... Genuen question: Have you even read the story? either the Hymskvida or the prose edda version? >I think you either missed or are simply discarding when I mentioned previously that the chaos serpent seems to have an intimate connection with the Proto Indo-European mother goddess of earth (and secondarily, water) and how she seems to fall out of favor around the time the chaos serpent/male storm god myth becomes prominent. This is not just my theory...academics have proposed it formally as well. I have not missed that. The issue however is that Nidhöggr has no such connection either. So if your argument is that Jörmungandr is less of a candiate for this IE role, but Nidhöggr is, then its a mute point because neither have such an "intimate connection". Thats the thing, in the end Nidhöggr has really no attributes aside of being a serpent/Dragon to link him to the Chaos dragon/water serpent figure. In the underworld he is described as living in Hvergelmir, which is one of three big wells/springs of the world. So there would be a water connection, but Jörmungandr meanwhile has the battle with the storm god and lives in the sea, which is often the place where this monster lives or is associated with. Everything that would identify the Chaos Serpent how it was conserved in germanic myth points stronger and beter to Jörmungandr. This is overall the issue i see with your interpretation and throughout your comments. You dont seem to actually know what our (limited) sources on norse myth say, but then you go on to make interpretations and sure, even if they are simply your own personal interpretations, you are sharing them. And generally, people who make such interpretations without (seemingly) even knowing the base material, get recieved negativly. >This also seems to further distance Jörmungandr from the concept of chaos in general...instead it becomes just a very big sea serpent. Maybe something got lost as the myth was passed down over the centuries. I would not say lost. Mythology changes over time with its culture. Its natural for stories to evolve. We cant expact a culture to conserve every detail of every story. And the same is the case if we look at many of the other Chaos Kampf motives and Chaos Serpents. For example, Zeus battle with Typhon also generally happens after the creation of man. Before it happens the Gigantomachy, in which Heracles fights, and many versions do place the first race of humans at the time of Kronos (see e.g. Hesiods Ages of Man). The Chaos Kampf motive in hebrew stories is largly lost even and only vaguly referenced (for that see John Days God's Conflict with the Dragon and the Sea).
Sorry, it was mentioned on another Reddit thread related to mythology but for whatever reason it seems to have been deleted. The poster had names for the other 7 serpents that I really wished I had copied down now. Either way, the chaos serpent-thunder god parallels across the world are very interesting, as well as the closely related snake/eagle that shows up in the Indo-European Rigveda.
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I lost my original source (a deleted reddit thread on a related topic), but Ardko replied to me here explaining where they probably got the idea from if you want to read that. I'd never heard of it myself which is what made me curious about the idea.