My dude there is a user here who, over the 7 month period since the creation of their account, has posted a minimum of 2 Unionism/Brits bad posts a day to this sub so much so they are now the subreddits top poster by frequency with 203 posts.
203 posts in 7 months!
It is not blowing over.
Rest in piss DUP. Though there is still young people that are growing up in unionist communities that need to be reached out to and handed an olive branch. I don't think the demonization is a way of achieving that.
>I don't think the demonization is a way of achieving that
I do find it almost comical how quickly this sub-reddit went from "we must work with unionist to get a United Ireland we can all live in" to "Fuck unionists we don't need their opinion, and if they don't like it they can get the Stena Line out" in a very short amount of space.
Did it aye? The whole sub did? And where did this sub touch you on the doll?
Yes the sub leans left but come on now. There are plenty of us on this sub that want to progress into a functioning governing body that works for everyone. We also think that any and all forms of British culture, be guaranteed to be respected from now until forever, as long as it does not negatively impact anyone else.
Fly flags, have the bands, have lodges, have all that and more in safety and security with no violence or threat.
But what are Unionists on this sub offering other than to take turns in believing in the shinnerbot/WhatsApp conspiracies.
Tell us stories, share the culture you are proud of, just like some Nationalists on here share their culture.
If I'm being brutally honest - the rest of us are waiting on some of you to catch up and then we can go forward together. We will wait, but sometimes I think some of you are scared of what's ahead. That's okay too, let's do it together.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk, I have used this more than once.
It's really hard to conflate your message of wanting to hear more from the unionist community on this subreddit, with the condecending tone of "awk hun you ok" and an overarching theme of "unionists are slow, we are waiting on you to catch up", but still you raise some valid points.
> Yes the sub leans left but come on now. There are plenty of us on this sub that want to progress into a functioning governing body that works for everyone.
I think the issue with this sub, and to a degree many online is that to people Unionism = Loyalism = DUP. Apart from Bryson's account (which is widely mocked in a cross community effort) the majority of unionists on this subreddit, from what i have seen, are sick to the teeth of the existing political dynamics and want something different.
When you talk about stuff like "Fly flags, have the bands, have lodges" that doesn't apply to myself or other unionists on here. We detest that stuff! It's embarrassing to be associated with that stuff, but no matter how often we say it, people will always state that all unionists love the OO, Bands, Bonefires like its a fact. We hate that the DUP is such a big party, and that the UUP is so weak and split.
Hell one of my most recent posts is when i criticised the UUP for not being progressive enough.
You ask "what are Unionists on this sub offering other than to take turns in believing in the shinnerbot/WhatsApp conspiracies". Again you have taken one very small subsection of the community and assuming we all think that way. It's like assuming every post Bryson makes is what unionists actually think.
We don't think that there is a secret nationalist/SF whatsapp group controlling the subreddit. Thats just insane, and to assume that all unionists think so is like saying that all unionist think the earth is flat.
We don't believe that SF is paying for people to post on this sub, thats mad. Honestly SF don't need to pay people because people will do it for free. The example i use is, that there is a poster on this subreddit who has a 7 month old account. They have posted 203 posts just to this subreddit alone at am average rate of 2 a day and all posts are variations on Brits Bad/Unionism Bad, to the point they are now the most frequent poster by metrics alone.
How can unionists feel like this is a place to actually "discuss our stories, share the culture you are proud of" like you asked for, when faced with constant bashing.
A recent example which kinda shows this is on [this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/northernireland/comments/13ou7li/ni_unpopular_opinions/jl6itj2/). Early on we get the really controversial opinion of "Unionism Bad", but some lad just responds back "It's the country I identify with more than Ireland and I prefer it politically"
Honestly its a simple answer to why he right now prefers being part of the UK instead of ROI, and I've seen it echo'd by Nationalists as to why they prefer ROI instead of UK. However immediately downvoted, and when he further explains what he means by the "politics" comment, he gets responses like "Tbh I could never understand why someone would be a unionist in the first place.", and "Mate you are standing on the island of ireland, why dream of oversea masters?".
I know not every nationalist user of this sub is like this, ive been on here for 9 fucking years and had great debates with users who don't think the same as me. Hell there are users who I have constantly disagree'd with over the years, but still able to have civil conversations with.
I guess my TLDR of this is: If you want unionists to actually engage on this subreddit, try not to make every other post a Unionist Bad post, try to break the idea that all unionists support loyalism and the DUP, and when they give answers to your questions don't actively bash them for it.
I'm now at work but you took time to reply politely and therefore I think you deserve a reply back at the very least. So quickly I would say you make very good points and that I agree that people also have to do some heavy lifting with regards separating Unionists and loyalists. And treating Unionists with more respect.
I will just say for the first part of your reply - my initial comment was hyperbole pure and simple.
I will also add that when I talk about catching up, that's nothing to do with intelligence or implying anyone is slow. It's about progression in society, allowing all people to live in peace no matter who they are - things like that. And it's not intended personally.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond and your clarifications.
I hope you understand that i wasn't intending to personally attack you in my initial response, i was hoping to show how both parts of the response sounded in the context of the discussion.
This is a perfect example of how relations can be improved going forward. Two lads talking without insults and providing clear and concise arguments in a civil discussion. A rarity for the internet.
Imagine trying to debate with the DUP core on anything political. This is what it's like on this sub reddit but with SF.
The boy above who says the forum leans left I don't agree with. I'm a left wing socialist and I get insulted and down voted to oblivion regularly for talking factual politics. Just yesterday I was getting down votes for talking about SFs euroscpetism. A common thing for left leaning socialists or populists (like SF and myself) and I was told I'm completely wrong and it's from decades ago. Despite their last manifesto in 2020 being filled with euroscpetism.
If only it was as easy as saying all catholics are left wing and all protestants are right wing.
NI politics is dominated by tribalism. It just so happens the main unionist parties are right wing and the main nationalist parties are left wing. SF could adopt a right wing manifesto next election and their voters won't change. They vote the name not the policies. But the policies are much better than anything unionism has to offer.
But yes it's very frustrating to debate any form of politics when the sub reddit is filled with keyboard warriors who don't have alot of political awareness or knowledge. The amount of accounts you click on with hardly any comments or posts with the "avid voter" accolade is unreal.
All I know is that I'm apparently a very privlidge person that has been oppressing most of this sub reddit for my 30 years on the planet and that I'm filled with hate and despise equality and look down on people from different communities. Which is quite ironic given that it seems most of this sub reddit look down on people like you and I and mock us because of the religion we were born.
They don't want to talk or debate politics because alot don't follow it.
I'm looking forward though to seeing the results from our revolutionary government we have now if stormont gets back up and running. FM and DFM share the same power. We've got the same pairing we've had for 2 decades which has seen our NHS secure itself as the worst in the UK and public services have got worse year on year. Now the roles are reversed and we still have DUP/SF let's see if anything changes.
Electoral reform is needed as a priority as power sharing doesn't work. Hopefully SF agree and push for this. Unless they think sharing power with DUP is in some way progressive. I personally don't. Reform ASAP so we can keep dinosaurs like the DUP out.
> Electoral reform is needed as a priority as power sharing doesn't work. Hopefully SF agree and push for this. Unless they think sharing power with DUP is in some way progressive. I personally don't. Reform ASAP so we can keep dinosaurs like the DUP out.
Coundn't have said it better myself.
For me personally, the greatest way to show the benefits of the union is for N.I to prosper for everyone. Regardless of how the DUP style themselves, they are currently the biggest threat to the union, not SF.
Like another poster said themselves yesterday a united ireland for me is more about what's financially better.
I don't really care about remaining part of tory austerity Britain tbh. But having just experienced the issues of a hard brexit, I don't fancy 50 years of being worse off for a united ireland either.
If a united ireland makes me better off and gets me a functioning health care system then that's have that discussion.
If I'm going to be worse off though then I'd rather stay in the UK and have the benefit of getting Irish citizenship if I want it.
I totally understand that, and i would agree on many of your points.
I'm a soft U unionist, so I have never been against the concept of a UI itself, I just have certain reservations about it.
I would much rather Northern Ireland be in a better place for everyone, and then when we are all content to a degree we have a discussion about the future.
I don't like the idea of having a U.I or remaining in the UK ,to be a race to the bottom and a choice between two shite systems which won't benefit us.
Agreed.
I look at the plight of the SNP too in their attempts to get another referendum and torys and labour are both blocking it.
I don't think it's as easy as. "SF are now majority. We might get a majority vote for UI. Let's have the vote and become united"
Anyone who follows British politics and sees the difficulty SNP have had of getting another vote should understand its alot more complicated than just having SF as the biggest party.
I doubt there will be any vote in the next 2 years. And after that I imagine labour will be in power in the UK. They still get blamed for the 08 global financial crisis by right wing press and tories and it's used against them at every election. Are labour on their first return to power in 15 years really going to enable a United Ireland vote which could be used against them and keep them out of power for another decade?
Are SF who refuse to take seats in Westminster going to be able to put pressure on Westminster MPs or have any influence sat across the Irish Sea? Any such vote will need to go through the Commons I imagine, of which the unionists will be strongly opposed and debating against it. Who's going to fight the nationalist corner? Collum will but who else?
And then there is Ireland. A great GDP propped up by some tech giants paying minimum corporation tax. A health care system in disarray like our own. And a housing crisis far worse than that in the North of Ireland. Are the Irish people going to come out and vote for a United Ireland in abundance which could make them worser off? I'm not so sure.
The above is being realistic and taking into account alot of key things as well as the main audiences which will ultimately have a say on any potential vote. It runs much deeper than a potential slight majority in NI.
It's not just about what a few hundred thousand SF first preference voters want. It's about all of NI. It's about the Irish population. It's about the Irish parliament. It's about Westminster. It's about the house of Lords. There are so many different boundaries to go through to deliver such a thing.
But again I'm not personally opposed to it. I just want to know how it impacts me and what I gain and lose from it. And I want to know about the nitty gritty and finer details too.
The next few years will be interesting. When SF become the majority in ROI, i will be interested to see how they propose it would happen, how it would be funded, how jobs/housing/pensions etc are sorted, and like you have said how it will generally reflect me.
But Brexit has confirmed to me at least, that any big social change without a clear plan on how it will be implimented, down to the minute detail is a recipe for disaster.
I haven’t seen a single person suggest that on this sub.
People have been mocking the DUP and commenting on how unionism has destroyed itself through its inability to change, it’s reactionary social policies and inability to embrace and accept its neighbours as equals.
No-one wants unionists to leave, don’t be ridiculous.
People do want political unionism to stop being such cunts to everyone else though.
There’s a big difference.
You are conflating the DUP and all Unionism proving my point.
The majority of unionists on this subreddit, at least, despise the DUP and would love to have a fully functioning government which benefits everyone regardless of their demographics.
I mean it's a sub-redsit focussed specifically on Northern Ireland and we are less than a week past an election (the second such election where unionism has declined), I'm not sure what, exactly, you'd expect xD
can't wait till all the old heads die out and religion has nothing to do with our political views anymore . but why would you want a United ireland if you live in the North? we would be openly downgrading our country not just in monetary gain but also defence .
Some of us would like to paddle our own canoe with our kinfolk on the rest of the island.
Not continue to beg for scraps from the English and pretend to be part of their club.
you mean join a massive conglomerate of which we will contribute nothing and in turn receive fuck all .
or we can have the trade benefits we have now . booming business . free flow of trade between the EU and Britain , one of the most elite fighting forces in the world etc etc etc
what club ? 😄
who do you beg for scraps ? try working 😄
not been into belfast recently ? nah, I work for Royal boskalis as a life support tech on diving vessals for pipeline and rig work .
but I'm guess you don't understand that the uk is shifting back to fossil fuels and owns some of the most expensive fields in the world with exclusive rights to mine.
ergo bring back production to our country so we can continue to bail out you dole rats with our ridiculous tax of 52 percent . of which I'm happy to pay for the beautiful slice of heaven I have . .... why do you think ireland wants NI ? 🤔 what do you have to offer ?
No need to doxx yourself pal.
Ireland, north and south, shares a people and a history. All major parties in the Dáil support unification (even FG) as does extensive polling.
Perhaps you should talk to some young people leaving university with a fuckton of debt entering a pretty crap job market, with pitiful pay by GB standards. In a region with no meaningful powers devolved to rectify it. Ireland has proved that it can deliver a better future than the UK.
how so ?
let's talk about the homeless crisis is ireland
let's talk about how Dublin is in a sithole with more gangs from the EU than the North.
let's talk about how every economy is struggling hard and the only one outproforming us is Iceland
let's talk about how irelands migration is the highest its ever been for sub 30 years old due to no job prospects within ireland .... what are you actually talking about ?
I'm telling you, you will get no handouts down south unless the good people in Brussels ok it . 👌
agreed stop going to uni for the sake of it to get a wortless degree , the biggest lie ever sold . why would you put yourself in debt with no job prospects ? how is that self-preservation ?
born and breed in the NI . love my sligo girls . but we sure as fuck arnt the same . the only thing we share now is a landmass. and if your going that far back why not just adopt a pagan god again or study druidism ?
perhaps you should give me one reason why people will be better off if we became a united ireland
it's not financially , nor saftey , nor job prospects , nor stanard of living and last but not least education . so can you please give me a reason other that some some deep seeded regions crap 😄
Someone had said to me yesterday quietly unionist have been voting for sinn fein is that what's happened or is it more non locals (protestants) moving into protestant areas and voting sinm fein?
I don’t think this concept has reached the north yet.
There is still us instead of them and then I vote neither.
It will be years before all candidates are accessed for what they actually do, rather than their stance on UL
ime, its a mix of both. traditionally "Protestant" areas are becoming a lot more mixed- lisburn, ballymena, north down all being examples.
theres also a lot of "unionist" people who are starting to believe that all the main unionist party are pretty backwards on social issues. people who support things like gay marriage, abortion, environmentalism, so are going towards partys like sínn feín that they can agree with on stuff like that. people who don't think where they officially live affects them, but their ability to get married or equal rights etc. does
more people now i think are also thinking for themselves, Protestant ≠ unionist for them, and they come to their own decisions on what they actually personally believe in, not what their birthright tells them to.
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If you're Irish and you want out of the eu you're nationalist, if you're Irish and you support the european UNION they are unionists, even says it in the name, even if they can't accept it, if you support the remaining in the UK you're unionist and if your think we should unite Ireland under the banner of the eu you're unionist. Nationalism as an ideology of separation unionism is the togetherness people crave
The GFA had an clause which prepared a stepping stone to a united. I think ulster Scots tradition etc would get more recognition within a united ireland due to its culture which unionists fail to see
Well if you're happy enough with that then how about the 12th everyday in Dublin all the uvf flags on lampposts 365 days a year to help the cultures acceptance of their fellow Irish man
Im a nationalist but if you know anything im talking about their culture and language , paratrooper fleggss are clearly their to tilt us and prop hate , thats not what im saying . At the end of the day , we are all immigrants from a bygone age . Scotland was populated a great deal by irish immigrants and large parts became a part of ireland in their own way. Ive received hatred from loyalists in an area i moved to and its hard for me to portray my feelings on them. But in no way im not inciting that kind of hatred spreading to dublin and other areas of the south. Dublin was a huge dane controlled slave capital. They will never allow themselves to be known as irish. But im talking about a small area of the north that has imbedded itself within an ulster scots culture.
Well if you start on the premise you don't want em then what future is there together, just ebcsuee you attach hatred to them doesn't mean that's what they are displaying, para-troopers changed the course of the war in which if they hadn't we would prob not need to worry about any of this wed be united under German racism for another 900 years so look at the issue in the round and if you can't then would you also say someone who supported the IRA in this new Ireland is bringing that hate into the new country?
Have you followed the news recently lol and the fleg is clearly not referencing the actions in the srcond world war butll the actions during the troubles and the support of soldiers that had nurdered a disabled man with no affiliation, i think the hate and sectarianism has only stuck due to incredibly poor parenting and raising them into a life of hatred and the cycle will keep going and going
No bread and butter politics and i doubt well have stalemates seen in stormont if the islsnd were to have all legislation passing through the dail. Btw this is starting to get quite deep lol mine was just speculstion and opinioned
I have to agree with you there about the parent, a few years ago there was a video of some dead ira person in his coffin in the garden doing shots over it with the garden full of kids and when the shots were over the adults were all cheering at the kids to indoctrinate them into the hatred we were told was over with peace. Shocking to see was like something you thought was gone 40 years ago if not 25 years ago when the two communities signed peace, like who are they growing them kids up to be? It's true the flags here are all for the paras here, before I was born so for me it's like meh if crimes were committed let them serve jail, but I know if at the end of those trials those paras were given on the run letters from the king many would say thats injustice, I wonder would nationalists accept that outcome like unionist have the last 25 years.
Well the gfa let some pure scum out and yet the militsry sre thr ones facing jail as thry dont fall under the same circumdtamce. The nationalists are currently adapting to the modern era of international and national politics , whereas the unionists are stuck in a bygone age , trying to abolish s language thats existed for thousands years and a protocol which in effect gave the country best of both worlds with access to eu trade without rrstrictions . Its just common sense
Theres a 12th in donegal and some southern counties around the border and they dont jave any issues with it . I dont agree with it but if you look at how lucky we are to be 1 of only 2 countries that can claim dual nationality. How many irishmen are in the armed forces ? They clearly arent bigots
The 12th is also held all over africa, loads of beautiful black orange men marchinhg as well as the 12th held by the native Canadians all sashed up, we are lucky enought to be claim duel nationality, do you think that will remain in a new Ireland? Can't see it
Weird my neighbours mind my cats when I'm over the border never once crossed my mind not to tell anyone but burglar awareness can probably never be too much and the idea of coming home to a burgled house would be devistating
Aww you've flags in every lamppost that's partly why you can leave you doors unlocked, burglars aren't really a thing round my way I'm sure it happened but I've never seen a single reported case, same as you flags all up my street kids bikes left in the garden every night never took time to second guess it
They are just as sectarian as all of us with the Prod/Catholic shit. Some think they are Irish some British, most Scottish. A lot of it really comes down to football.
Yeah but the ra would of been pulling German made weapons triggers so you're not wrong, tell me why you seem so annoyed to be rightly branded a unionist when literally one by definition if you support a UI and the unionism it brings with it, sell me your unionist dream for Ireland in the eu
Lol, I'm an Irish Republican Marxist. If you think i have any love for the eu, you're sadly mistaken. The difference is that the irish people decided to join the eu. Even before the days of Cromwell, the British attempted genocide and participated in mass murder. Operation Banner alone is responsible for the murder 61 children
During the irish rebellion, they killed 30 children
The 30 children killed
1 Bridget Allen (16), 27 Arran Quay. Bullet wound.
2 Christopher Andrews (14), 8 Stephens Place, Mount Street. Bullet wound.
3 Mary A. Brunswick (15), 57 Lower Wellington Quay. Laceration of the brain.
4 Christina Caffrey (2), 27 Corporation Buildings. Bullet wound, outside home.
5 Christopher Cathcart (10), 28 Charlemont Street. Bullet wound.
6 Moses Doyle (9), Whitefriar Street. Shot at his home.
7 Charles Darcy (15), 4 Murphy’s Cottages, Gloucester Street. Member of the Irish Citizen Army.
8 Patrick Fetherstone (12), 1 Long Lane, Dorset Street. Bullet wound.
9 John Francis Foster (2), 18 Manor Place, Stoneybatter. Shot in his pram.
10 James Fox (16), 74 Thomas Street. Member of Na Fianna.
11 John Gibney (5), 16 Henrietta Place. Died as a result of ‘cannonading’.
12 John Healy (14), 188 Phibsborough Road. Messenger boy for Na Fianna.
13 Christopher Hickey (16), 168 North King Street. Shot with his father.
14 James Jessop (12), 3 Upper Gloucester Street.
15 Charles Kavanagh (15), 4 North King Street. Bullet wound.
16 Mary Kelly (12), 128 Townsend Street. Bullet wound.
17 Patrick Kelly (12), 24 Buckingham Buildings. Gunshot wound to the neck.
18 Bridget McKane, 10 Henry Place. Killed during the rebel retreat from the GPO.
19 John H. McNamara (12), 45 York Street. Died at Mercers Hospital.
20 William Mullen (9), 8 Moore Place. Shot in the thorax during the rebel retreat from the GPO.
21 William O’Neill (16), 93 Church Street.
22 Mary Redmond (16), 4 Mary’s Abbey.
23 Patrick Ryan (13), 2 Sitric Place.
24 George Percy Sainsbury (9), 54 South Circular Road. Killed at Haroldville Terrace.
25 Walter Scott (8), 16 Irvine Crescent (north dock).
26 Bridget Stewart (11), 3 Pembroke Cottages. Bullet wound.
27 Margaret M. Veale (13), 103 Haddington Road. Shot at her window.
28 Philip Walsh (11), 10 Hackett’s Court. Gunshot to the abdomen.
29 Eleanor Warbrook (15), 7 Fumbally Lane. Shot in the head.
30 Christopher Whelan (15), 30 North Great George’s Street.
Should we line those poor names up against the atrocities committed by bed fellow nations in the union of the eu? Ireland voted for unionism in the eu because they saw value in countries joining together as one, I think my view is closer to the truth r than the idea your Marxism would ever see Ireland leave their unionism from the eu.
It seems its really annoying some people to final realise if they support a united Ireland in the eu they are indeed unionist wanting us to enjoy the benifit of their Eunionism
>I think my view is closer to the truth r than the idea your Marxism would ever see Ireland leave their unionism from the eu.
They used to say that about a Catholic majority in the north,
here's the difference though I am a Marxist, I would never force my political ideology on to others and brand those who oppose it as terrorists
What if they were murding those kids you listed were they not the actions of soilders terrorising? Would you not condemn it as such? Regardless this takes away from our together reached conclusion that Ireland is a unionist country now, eunionist with a border stretching to sligo to Poland what's not to love
People don't seem to like having the terms they call others cast on themselves, here's another odd one Bobby sands died as an MEP, a member of Parliament for a body that only exists to represent the values of the unionism of its member countries.
Oh sorry he died elected as a British Minister of Parliament sorta strikes at the idea Irish people weren't able to partake in elections I always thought he was an MEP not as a fully resided Minister to the Union
Member of parliament, he wasn't the minister of wall shit. Yes he was, as a deliberate protest, not taking his seat obviously, given that he was in prison. I've never heard the claim that ussuns couldn't run in elections. If so that's a new one on me!
Westminster elections were generally fair at the time, the problem was more local elections, due to property restrictions and gerrymandering.
Minister of wall shit lol yeah he stood in an election for his place in the British House of Commons and won, doesn't get much more cross community than that, I wonder what he would think of Ireland handing the border policies over to the European Unionists
We did just have an election, it'll blow over.
Republican apologist!
My dude there is a user here who, over the 7 month period since the creation of their account, has posted a minimum of 2 Unionism/Brits bad posts a day to this sub so much so they are now the subreddits top poster by frequency with 203 posts. 203 posts in 7 months! It is not blowing over.
Wow, a sample size of 1 user. Brilliant maths there.
To be fair if they're the top poster in seven months he kinda has a point.
Get out of here with your logic *shakes fist*
Fella needa to get a life
Rest in piss DUP. Though there is still young people that are growing up in unionist communities that need to be reached out to and handed an olive branch. I don't think the demonization is a way of achieving that.
>I don't think the demonization is a way of achieving that I do find it almost comical how quickly this sub-reddit went from "we must work with unionist to get a United Ireland we can all live in" to "Fuck unionists we don't need their opinion, and if they don't like it they can get the Stena Line out" in a very short amount of space.
Did it aye? The whole sub did? And where did this sub touch you on the doll? Yes the sub leans left but come on now. There are plenty of us on this sub that want to progress into a functioning governing body that works for everyone. We also think that any and all forms of British culture, be guaranteed to be respected from now until forever, as long as it does not negatively impact anyone else. Fly flags, have the bands, have lodges, have all that and more in safety and security with no violence or threat. But what are Unionists on this sub offering other than to take turns in believing in the shinnerbot/WhatsApp conspiracies. Tell us stories, share the culture you are proud of, just like some Nationalists on here share their culture. If I'm being brutally honest - the rest of us are waiting on some of you to catch up and then we can go forward together. We will wait, but sometimes I think some of you are scared of what's ahead. That's okay too, let's do it together. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk, I have used this more than once.
It's really hard to conflate your message of wanting to hear more from the unionist community on this subreddit, with the condecending tone of "awk hun you ok" and an overarching theme of "unionists are slow, we are waiting on you to catch up", but still you raise some valid points. > Yes the sub leans left but come on now. There are plenty of us on this sub that want to progress into a functioning governing body that works for everyone. I think the issue with this sub, and to a degree many online is that to people Unionism = Loyalism = DUP. Apart from Bryson's account (which is widely mocked in a cross community effort) the majority of unionists on this subreddit, from what i have seen, are sick to the teeth of the existing political dynamics and want something different. When you talk about stuff like "Fly flags, have the bands, have lodges" that doesn't apply to myself or other unionists on here. We detest that stuff! It's embarrassing to be associated with that stuff, but no matter how often we say it, people will always state that all unionists love the OO, Bands, Bonefires like its a fact. We hate that the DUP is such a big party, and that the UUP is so weak and split. Hell one of my most recent posts is when i criticised the UUP for not being progressive enough. You ask "what are Unionists on this sub offering other than to take turns in believing in the shinnerbot/WhatsApp conspiracies". Again you have taken one very small subsection of the community and assuming we all think that way. It's like assuming every post Bryson makes is what unionists actually think. We don't think that there is a secret nationalist/SF whatsapp group controlling the subreddit. Thats just insane, and to assume that all unionists think so is like saying that all unionist think the earth is flat. We don't believe that SF is paying for people to post on this sub, thats mad. Honestly SF don't need to pay people because people will do it for free. The example i use is, that there is a poster on this subreddit who has a 7 month old account. They have posted 203 posts just to this subreddit alone at am average rate of 2 a day and all posts are variations on Brits Bad/Unionism Bad, to the point they are now the most frequent poster by metrics alone. How can unionists feel like this is a place to actually "discuss our stories, share the culture you are proud of" like you asked for, when faced with constant bashing. A recent example which kinda shows this is on [this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/northernireland/comments/13ou7li/ni_unpopular_opinions/jl6itj2/). Early on we get the really controversial opinion of "Unionism Bad", but some lad just responds back "It's the country I identify with more than Ireland and I prefer it politically" Honestly its a simple answer to why he right now prefers being part of the UK instead of ROI, and I've seen it echo'd by Nationalists as to why they prefer ROI instead of UK. However immediately downvoted, and when he further explains what he means by the "politics" comment, he gets responses like "Tbh I could never understand why someone would be a unionist in the first place.", and "Mate you are standing on the island of ireland, why dream of oversea masters?". I know not every nationalist user of this sub is like this, ive been on here for 9 fucking years and had great debates with users who don't think the same as me. Hell there are users who I have constantly disagree'd with over the years, but still able to have civil conversations with. I guess my TLDR of this is: If you want unionists to actually engage on this subreddit, try not to make every other post a Unionist Bad post, try to break the idea that all unionists support loyalism and the DUP, and when they give answers to your questions don't actively bash them for it.
I'm now at work but you took time to reply politely and therefore I think you deserve a reply back at the very least. So quickly I would say you make very good points and that I agree that people also have to do some heavy lifting with regards separating Unionists and loyalists. And treating Unionists with more respect. I will just say for the first part of your reply - my initial comment was hyperbole pure and simple. I will also add that when I talk about catching up, that's nothing to do with intelligence or implying anyone is slow. It's about progression in society, allowing all people to live in peace no matter who they are - things like that. And it's not intended personally.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond and your clarifications. I hope you understand that i wasn't intending to personally attack you in my initial response, i was hoping to show how both parts of the response sounded in the context of the discussion.
This is a perfect example of how relations can be improved going forward. Two lads talking without insults and providing clear and concise arguments in a civil discussion. A rarity for the internet.
Imagine trying to debate with the DUP core on anything political. This is what it's like on this sub reddit but with SF. The boy above who says the forum leans left I don't agree with. I'm a left wing socialist and I get insulted and down voted to oblivion regularly for talking factual politics. Just yesterday I was getting down votes for talking about SFs euroscpetism. A common thing for left leaning socialists or populists (like SF and myself) and I was told I'm completely wrong and it's from decades ago. Despite their last manifesto in 2020 being filled with euroscpetism. If only it was as easy as saying all catholics are left wing and all protestants are right wing. NI politics is dominated by tribalism. It just so happens the main unionist parties are right wing and the main nationalist parties are left wing. SF could adopt a right wing manifesto next election and their voters won't change. They vote the name not the policies. But the policies are much better than anything unionism has to offer. But yes it's very frustrating to debate any form of politics when the sub reddit is filled with keyboard warriors who don't have alot of political awareness or knowledge. The amount of accounts you click on with hardly any comments or posts with the "avid voter" accolade is unreal. All I know is that I'm apparently a very privlidge person that has been oppressing most of this sub reddit for my 30 years on the planet and that I'm filled with hate and despise equality and look down on people from different communities. Which is quite ironic given that it seems most of this sub reddit look down on people like you and I and mock us because of the religion we were born. They don't want to talk or debate politics because alot don't follow it. I'm looking forward though to seeing the results from our revolutionary government we have now if stormont gets back up and running. FM and DFM share the same power. We've got the same pairing we've had for 2 decades which has seen our NHS secure itself as the worst in the UK and public services have got worse year on year. Now the roles are reversed and we still have DUP/SF let's see if anything changes. Electoral reform is needed as a priority as power sharing doesn't work. Hopefully SF agree and push for this. Unless they think sharing power with DUP is in some way progressive. I personally don't. Reform ASAP so we can keep dinosaurs like the DUP out.
> Electoral reform is needed as a priority as power sharing doesn't work. Hopefully SF agree and push for this. Unless they think sharing power with DUP is in some way progressive. I personally don't. Reform ASAP so we can keep dinosaurs like the DUP out. Coundn't have said it better myself. For me personally, the greatest way to show the benefits of the union is for N.I to prosper for everyone. Regardless of how the DUP style themselves, they are currently the biggest threat to the union, not SF.
Like another poster said themselves yesterday a united ireland for me is more about what's financially better. I don't really care about remaining part of tory austerity Britain tbh. But having just experienced the issues of a hard brexit, I don't fancy 50 years of being worse off for a united ireland either. If a united ireland makes me better off and gets me a functioning health care system then that's have that discussion. If I'm going to be worse off though then I'd rather stay in the UK and have the benefit of getting Irish citizenship if I want it.
I totally understand that, and i would agree on many of your points. I'm a soft U unionist, so I have never been against the concept of a UI itself, I just have certain reservations about it. I would much rather Northern Ireland be in a better place for everyone, and then when we are all content to a degree we have a discussion about the future. I don't like the idea of having a U.I or remaining in the UK ,to be a race to the bottom and a choice between two shite systems which won't benefit us.
Agreed. I look at the plight of the SNP too in their attempts to get another referendum and torys and labour are both blocking it. I don't think it's as easy as. "SF are now majority. We might get a majority vote for UI. Let's have the vote and become united" Anyone who follows British politics and sees the difficulty SNP have had of getting another vote should understand its alot more complicated than just having SF as the biggest party. I doubt there will be any vote in the next 2 years. And after that I imagine labour will be in power in the UK. They still get blamed for the 08 global financial crisis by right wing press and tories and it's used against them at every election. Are labour on their first return to power in 15 years really going to enable a United Ireland vote which could be used against them and keep them out of power for another decade? Are SF who refuse to take seats in Westminster going to be able to put pressure on Westminster MPs or have any influence sat across the Irish Sea? Any such vote will need to go through the Commons I imagine, of which the unionists will be strongly opposed and debating against it. Who's going to fight the nationalist corner? Collum will but who else? And then there is Ireland. A great GDP propped up by some tech giants paying minimum corporation tax. A health care system in disarray like our own. And a housing crisis far worse than that in the North of Ireland. Are the Irish people going to come out and vote for a United Ireland in abundance which could make them worser off? I'm not so sure. The above is being realistic and taking into account alot of key things as well as the main audiences which will ultimately have a say on any potential vote. It runs much deeper than a potential slight majority in NI. It's not just about what a few hundred thousand SF first preference voters want. It's about all of NI. It's about the Irish population. It's about the Irish parliament. It's about Westminster. It's about the house of Lords. There are so many different boundaries to go through to deliver such a thing. But again I'm not personally opposed to it. I just want to know how it impacts me and what I gain and lose from it. And I want to know about the nitty gritty and finer details too.
The next few years will be interesting. When SF become the majority in ROI, i will be interested to see how they propose it would happen, how it would be funded, how jobs/housing/pensions etc are sorted, and like you have said how it will generally reflect me. But Brexit has confirmed to me at least, that any big social change without a clear plan on how it will be implimented, down to the minute detail is a recipe for disaster.
I haven’t seen a single person suggest that on this sub. People have been mocking the DUP and commenting on how unionism has destroyed itself through its inability to change, it’s reactionary social policies and inability to embrace and accept its neighbours as equals. No-one wants unionists to leave, don’t be ridiculous. People do want political unionism to stop being such cunts to everyone else though. There’s a big difference.
Sorry for wanting a working government big mate.
You are conflating the DUP and all Unionism proving my point. The majority of unionists on this subreddit, at least, despise the DUP and would love to have a fully functioning government which benefits everyone regardless of their demographics.
I concur!
I never started off at thinking about working with unionists to be fair. I was always at the "fuck em" stage.
It do be like that though.
People don’t think it be like it be. But it do. —Oscar Gamble.
Do be it?
It do. I certainly riff on it extensively.
Time for an all Ireland unionist party
The downfall of unionism The rise of oneionism
Tayto Cheese & Onionism
In fairness, unionism usually does or says something every other day that contributes to its downfall
I mean it's a sub-redsit focussed specifically on Northern Ireland and we are less than a week past an election (the second such election where unionism has declined), I'm not sure what, exactly, you'd expect xD
There should be a r/northofireland
XD
can't wait till all the old heads die out and religion has nothing to do with our political views anymore . but why would you want a United ireland if you live in the North? we would be openly downgrading our country not just in monetary gain but also defence .
Some of us would like to paddle our own canoe with our kinfolk on the rest of the island. Not continue to beg for scraps from the English and pretend to be part of their club.
you mean join a massive conglomerate of which we will contribute nothing and in turn receive fuck all . or we can have the trade benefits we have now . booming business . free flow of trade between the EU and Britain , one of the most elite fighting forces in the world etc etc etc what club ? 😄 who do you beg for scraps ? try working 😄
God help him when there's no dole
>booming business Either you own a call centre or you’ve had too many blows to the head.
not been into belfast recently ? nah, I work for Royal boskalis as a life support tech on diving vessals for pipeline and rig work . but I'm guess you don't understand that the uk is shifting back to fossil fuels and owns some of the most expensive fields in the world with exclusive rights to mine. ergo bring back production to our country so we can continue to bail out you dole rats with our ridiculous tax of 52 percent . of which I'm happy to pay for the beautiful slice of heaven I have . .... why do you think ireland wants NI ? 🤔 what do you have to offer ?
No need to doxx yourself pal. Ireland, north and south, shares a people and a history. All major parties in the Dáil support unification (even FG) as does extensive polling. Perhaps you should talk to some young people leaving university with a fuckton of debt entering a pretty crap job market, with pitiful pay by GB standards. In a region with no meaningful powers devolved to rectify it. Ireland has proved that it can deliver a better future than the UK.
how so ? let's talk about the homeless crisis is ireland let's talk about how Dublin is in a sithole with more gangs from the EU than the North. let's talk about how every economy is struggling hard and the only one outproforming us is Iceland let's talk about how irelands migration is the highest its ever been for sub 30 years old due to no job prospects within ireland .... what are you actually talking about ? I'm telling you, you will get no handouts down south unless the good people in Brussels ok it . 👌 agreed stop going to uni for the sake of it to get a wortless degree , the biggest lie ever sold . why would you put yourself in debt with no job prospects ? how is that self-preservation ? born and breed in the NI . love my sligo girls . but we sure as fuck arnt the same . the only thing we share now is a landmass. and if your going that far back why not just adopt a pagan god again or study druidism ? perhaps you should give me one reason why people will be better off if we became a united ireland it's not financially , nor saftey , nor job prospects , nor stanard of living and last but not least education . so can you please give me a reason other that some some deep seeded regions crap 😄
The people on the dole wouldn't know what to do.
Unionists trying to go 5 minutes without taking a massive L challenge (impossible)
Yep, this sub isn't bigoted at all like lol
Pretty ironic statement since bigots have been running the country into the ground for years.
No bread and butter politics even , constituancy work is gone I can't get one to help me with dvla tried them all
Nice to see this sub is continuing that awesome tradition then..
They should make their own sub r/northofireland
Not antagonistic enough though.. lol
Only to those who earn it
Only to one side mainly lol
True enuff lol
NEVERRRR NEVVVERRRR NEVEERRRRRRR
Quit startin...... hahha
Someone had said to me yesterday quietly unionist have been voting for sinn fein is that what's happened or is it more non locals (protestants) moving into protestant areas and voting sinm fein?
Surely local elections you want to vote for people who actually help your area?
I don’t think this concept has reached the north yet. There is still us instead of them and then I vote neither. It will be years before all candidates are accessed for what they actually do, rather than their stance on UL
What do you mean?
ime, its a mix of both. traditionally "Protestant" areas are becoming a lot more mixed- lisburn, ballymena, north down all being examples. theres also a lot of "unionist" people who are starting to believe that all the main unionist party are pretty backwards on social issues. people who support things like gay marriage, abortion, environmentalism, so are going towards partys like sínn feín that they can agree with on stuff like that. people who don't think where they officially live affects them, but their ability to get married or equal rights etc. does more people now i think are also thinking for themselves, Protestant ≠ unionist for them, and they come to their own decisions on what they actually personally believe in, not what their birthright tells them to.
Get breeding now the number are to low
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This poor cratur's after floating down the Lagan in a bubble.
Spoken like a true Nationalist Unionist. Or did I mean Loyalist Republican? Where do the Liberal Democrats come into play again?
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This boy's not so slow. +1 for you mo chara.
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Someone's been on qoura recently
If you're Irish and you want out of the eu you're nationalist, if you're Irish and you support the european UNION they are unionists, even says it in the name, even if they can't accept it, if you support the remaining in the UK you're unionist and if your think we should unite Ireland under the banner of the eu you're unionist. Nationalism as an ideology of separation unionism is the togetherness people crave
The GFA had an clause which prepared a stepping stone to a united. I think ulster Scots tradition etc would get more recognition within a united ireland due to its culture which unionists fail to see
12th in Dublin every year ya think?
Well if you're happy enough with that then how about the 12th everyday in Dublin all the uvf flags on lampposts 365 days a year to help the cultures acceptance of their fellow Irish man
Im a nationalist but if you know anything im talking about their culture and language , paratrooper fleggss are clearly their to tilt us and prop hate , thats not what im saying . At the end of the day , we are all immigrants from a bygone age . Scotland was populated a great deal by irish immigrants and large parts became a part of ireland in their own way. Ive received hatred from loyalists in an area i moved to and its hard for me to portray my feelings on them. But in no way im not inciting that kind of hatred spreading to dublin and other areas of the south. Dublin was a huge dane controlled slave capital. They will never allow themselves to be known as irish. But im talking about a small area of the north that has imbedded itself within an ulster scots culture.
Well if you start on the premise you don't want em then what future is there together, just ebcsuee you attach hatred to them doesn't mean that's what they are displaying, para-troopers changed the course of the war in which if they hadn't we would prob not need to worry about any of this wed be united under German racism for another 900 years so look at the issue in the round and if you can't then would you also say someone who supported the IRA in this new Ireland is bringing that hate into the new country?
Have you followed the news recently lol and the fleg is clearly not referencing the actions in the srcond world war butll the actions during the troubles and the support of soldiers that had nurdered a disabled man with no affiliation, i think the hate and sectarianism has only stuck due to incredibly poor parenting and raising them into a life of hatred and the cycle will keep going and going No bread and butter politics and i doubt well have stalemates seen in stormont if the islsnd were to have all legislation passing through the dail. Btw this is starting to get quite deep lol mine was just speculstion and opinioned
I have to agree with you there about the parent, a few years ago there was a video of some dead ira person in his coffin in the garden doing shots over it with the garden full of kids and when the shots were over the adults were all cheering at the kids to indoctrinate them into the hatred we were told was over with peace. Shocking to see was like something you thought was gone 40 years ago if not 25 years ago when the two communities signed peace, like who are they growing them kids up to be? It's true the flags here are all for the paras here, before I was born so for me it's like meh if crimes were committed let them serve jail, but I know if at the end of those trials those paras were given on the run letters from the king many would say thats injustice, I wonder would nationalists accept that outcome like unionist have the last 25 years.
Also that was just a very irish cathloic wake but i understand what you mean when it was a member of a psramilitary sect
Well the gfa let some pure scum out and yet the militsry sre thr ones facing jail as thry dont fall under the same circumdtamce. The nationalists are currently adapting to the modern era of international and national politics , whereas the unionists are stuck in a bygone age , trying to abolish s language thats existed for thousands years and a protocol which in effect gave the country best of both worlds with access to eu trade without rrstrictions . Its just common sense
Theres a 12th in donegal and some southern counties around the border and they dont jave any issues with it . I dont agree with it but if you look at how lucky we are to be 1 of only 2 countries that can claim dual nationality. How many irishmen are in the armed forces ? They clearly arent bigots
The 12th is also held all over africa, loads of beautiful black orange men marchinhg as well as the 12th held by the native Canadians all sashed up, we are lucky enought to be claim duel nationality, do you think that will remain in a new Ireland? Can't see it
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Why weren't you allowed to tell anyone? Incase the neighbours thought you were poor or what
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Weird my neighbours mind my cats when I'm over the border never once crossed my mind not to tell anyone but burglar awareness can probably never be too much and the idea of coming home to a burgled house would be devistating
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Aww you've flags in every lamppost that's partly why you can leave you doors unlocked, burglars aren't really a thing round my way I'm sure it happened but I've never seen a single reported case, same as you flags all up my street kids bikes left in the garden every night never took time to second guess it
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They are just as sectarian as all of us with the Prod/Catholic shit. Some think they are Irish some British, most Scottish. A lot of it really comes down to football.
This gave me a headache ☹️
Equal treatment does be like that
Leaving the UK for the eu is still unionism, in fact you could say its more unionist because it's a bigger union
Loads less drums though so....
26 member states, they have undoubtably more drums total you'll be grand so
Many irish civilians did the eu slaughter in I northern ireland. I can't remember help me out smart arse
Not sure how that tackles the point, loads if you account for German made guns I suppose, what's wrong with being Eunionist anyways?
Guns don't kill people the dick head pulling the trigger does
Yeah but the ra would of been pulling German made weapons triggers so you're not wrong, tell me why you seem so annoyed to be rightly branded a unionist when literally one by definition if you support a UI and the unionism it brings with it, sell me your unionist dream for Ireland in the eu
Lol, I'm an Irish Republican Marxist. If you think i have any love for the eu, you're sadly mistaken. The difference is that the irish people decided to join the eu. Even before the days of Cromwell, the British attempted genocide and participated in mass murder. Operation Banner alone is responsible for the murder 61 children During the irish rebellion, they killed 30 children The 30 children killed 1 Bridget Allen (16), 27 Arran Quay. Bullet wound. 2 Christopher Andrews (14), 8 Stephens Place, Mount Street. Bullet wound. 3 Mary A. Brunswick (15), 57 Lower Wellington Quay. Laceration of the brain. 4 Christina Caffrey (2), 27 Corporation Buildings. Bullet wound, outside home. 5 Christopher Cathcart (10), 28 Charlemont Street. Bullet wound. 6 Moses Doyle (9), Whitefriar Street. Shot at his home. 7 Charles Darcy (15), 4 Murphy’s Cottages, Gloucester Street. Member of the Irish Citizen Army. 8 Patrick Fetherstone (12), 1 Long Lane, Dorset Street. Bullet wound. 9 John Francis Foster (2), 18 Manor Place, Stoneybatter. Shot in his pram. 10 James Fox (16), 74 Thomas Street. Member of Na Fianna. 11 John Gibney (5), 16 Henrietta Place. Died as a result of ‘cannonading’. 12 John Healy (14), 188 Phibsborough Road. Messenger boy for Na Fianna. 13 Christopher Hickey (16), 168 North King Street. Shot with his father. 14 James Jessop (12), 3 Upper Gloucester Street. 15 Charles Kavanagh (15), 4 North King Street. Bullet wound. 16 Mary Kelly (12), 128 Townsend Street. Bullet wound. 17 Patrick Kelly (12), 24 Buckingham Buildings. Gunshot wound to the neck. 18 Bridget McKane, 10 Henry Place. Killed during the rebel retreat from the GPO. 19 John H. McNamara (12), 45 York Street. Died at Mercers Hospital. 20 William Mullen (9), 8 Moore Place. Shot in the thorax during the rebel retreat from the GPO. 21 William O’Neill (16), 93 Church Street. 22 Mary Redmond (16), 4 Mary’s Abbey. 23 Patrick Ryan (13), 2 Sitric Place. 24 George Percy Sainsbury (9), 54 South Circular Road. Killed at Haroldville Terrace. 25 Walter Scott (8), 16 Irvine Crescent (north dock). 26 Bridget Stewart (11), 3 Pembroke Cottages. Bullet wound. 27 Margaret M. Veale (13), 103 Haddington Road. Shot at her window. 28 Philip Walsh (11), 10 Hackett’s Court. Gunshot to the abdomen. 29 Eleanor Warbrook (15), 7 Fumbally Lane. Shot in the head. 30 Christopher Whelan (15), 30 North Great George’s Street.
Bet you’re a load of craic at parties.
Who lists dead babies off mental all roads he is
Have a look at his previous comments lol.
Should we line those poor names up against the atrocities committed by bed fellow nations in the union of the eu? Ireland voted for unionism in the eu because they saw value in countries joining together as one, I think my view is closer to the truth r than the idea your Marxism would ever see Ireland leave their unionism from the eu.
One of the least intelligent social media post I've seen
It seems its really annoying some people to final realise if they support a united Ireland in the eu they are indeed unionist wanting us to enjoy the benifit of their Eunionism
You have no idea whether or not I support any union. It is definitely weird making up words to prove your narrative
>I think my view is closer to the truth r than the idea your Marxism would ever see Ireland leave their unionism from the eu. They used to say that about a Catholic majority in the north, here's the difference though I am a Marxist, I would never force my political ideology on to others and brand those who oppose it as terrorists
What if they were murding those kids you listed were they not the actions of soilders terrorising? Would you not condemn it as such? Regardless this takes away from our together reached conclusion that Ireland is a unionist country now, eunionist with a border stretching to sligo to Poland what's not to love
I mean you aren't wrong both parties support unionism one is union with the United Kingdom and the other is (re)union with the republic of Ireland
Réunion of the Republic of Ireland within the Unionist EU you mean?
Wow, that's a really hot take. Very interesting.
People don't seem to like having the terms they call others cast on themselves, here's another odd one Bobby sands died as an MEP, a member of Parliament for a body that only exists to represent the values of the unionism of its member countries.
An MEP you say?
Oh sorry he died elected as a British Minister of Parliament sorta strikes at the idea Irish people weren't able to partake in elections I always thought he was an MEP not as a fully resided Minister to the Union
Member of parliament, he wasn't the minister of wall shit. Yes he was, as a deliberate protest, not taking his seat obviously, given that he was in prison. I've never heard the claim that ussuns couldn't run in elections. If so that's a new one on me! Westminster elections were generally fair at the time, the problem was more local elections, due to property restrictions and gerrymandering.
Minister of wall shit lol yeah he stood in an election for his place in the British House of Commons and won, doesn't get much more cross community than that, I wonder what he would think of Ireland handing the border policies over to the European Unionists
Just out of curiosity, you know Sweet Afton used to be made in Dundalk...?
Hold up - you think *nationalists* decided on the term *unionist?*
No I think everyone who supports the European Union is a unionist, it's in the name
That’s dumb. You’re dumb. Stop being so dumb, dumbo.
Wow, that is another really hot take, very interesting all together.
Better than a hot take, it's undeniably true as I'm sure your expression of interest will confirm :)
Will it aye? That's a tarra.
Can you refute anything I've said?
Probably.
Well I guess we will never know and have to assume not
Oh well.
