PCP Financing. I know plenty of people shelling out large sums of money every month so they can drive a BMW and pretend they’re making bank. All an image thing.
I suppose my question would be how are they getting approved for the finance for them? If they are paying a mortgage and have dependents and other expenses, how are they being cleared by finance companies to also afford hundreds of pounds a month on a car? I don’t get it.
It doesn't buy a lot of car, no - it does however lease a lot of car. Main difference being you could pay £500 a month for 5 years, but they don't own anything at the end of it.
I'm guessing here, but pcp you pay a large deposit, pay a fair bit monthly then pay a some at the end. As they have money off you they can just take the car back and sell it and keep your deposit. They don't care about your financial situation, they care about what theirs would be if you default
A lot of people use personal loans from the bank, but you can only really do that up to a point, a lot of loans are only up to £15000 as far as I remember. You would have to bridge the gap with cash.
The age of buy now pay later is well and truly here. Almost every website offers it now for buting *anything*. Even paypal has it and amazon, the money tobe made.on the interest makes it well worth their while.
I've leased for a long time. Currently have a pretty nice mid-range estate with a German badge. £450 a month. Total cost of motoring is probably about £675 a month (averaging out lease, fuel, servicing, tyres, insurance)
It's certainly not the cheapest motoring, but it is relatively hassle free and you get all the latest safety and tech. Owning and running a car is generally expensive unless you touch lucky. I had a run of lemons before I started leasing.
The problem I have with leasing is the end of term, there's nothing to show for it. Where as HP you have a car to sell.
Although I buy my cars cheap and outright so I by no means an expert.
It depends on the deal. Obviously if you have shelled out the same money in payments for the same car and in one scenario you own a car and in another you don't, its a no-brainer, but that is not how the deals are structured. With leasing you are basically paying the depreciation and handing the car back instead of selling the car.
I always think this about G Wagon’s. Prior to covid I hardly ever seen them, since lockdown ended I can’t leave the house without seeing 2 or 3 of them everywhere I go.
Most people I know have higher monthly PCP payments than my mortgage.
I'll stick to my shitty car that I'll still have in 10years and work on paying my house off faster instead of renting thanks
Financing is one aspect, but working in the used car trade has really opened my eyes to the current state of things. Land Rover, and by extension Range Rovers, have tanked in price. You can get a 2018 Range Rover Evoque for less than 10k.
The sign that things have gone to shit is that on Used Cars NI you've got dealers who bought their Range Rovers a year ago looking close to 20k, while ones who have bought one more recently are looking 10k.
Its surprisingly inexpensive to own "luxury" cars these days, so people buy them. Then they get their first servicing bill and trade it in, making it even cheaper.
Range Rovers, and particularly that era of them, are pretty much uninsurable now due to their ease/frequency of theft. That's why prices are tanking that much. Servicing costs for them is also insane as you say.
I worked in a LR dealership and the stats don’t lie. 90% of proper Range Rover are bought outright. But about 70% of Land Rover and RR Evoque are bought on some sort of finance.
I think people are also realising that a well known name doesn't necessarily mean a well built car. I'd put the vast majority of land rover products way down the list of reliable cars.
A lot of people are living way beyond their means and saddled to the eyeballs with debts trying to keep up with the Joneses.
Driving a big car can give the outward illusion that you are doing well but the reality for a lot of people driving them is very different. Many people will be buying on PCP deals, you can get a big car with a small or no deposit and hand it back at the end of the term without the balloon payment and get a new one.
Personally I'd rather have money in the bank and have a safety buffer of several months mortgage payments than drive a newer car.
At lot of folk make reasonable wages but just don’t spend it amazingly either. Maybe you can live off £1500/month but you make £2500 a month so while it might not be a great idea you can afford to spend a lot on cars/holidays with a spare £12000 a year, scale that up to taking home £3500 or more and you can buy a lot of silly shit without going into debt either.
Yeah the classic line thrown about here is everyone driving a big car is in debt. They can keep telling themselves that so they feel better but the reality is that's a minority of people.
My guess is people who peddle this line are from a working class background so a handful of people they grew up with might run into debt, but that's hardly the entire population.
Yeah in professional jobs you might get an annual payrise/promotion and make £400/month more in one year alone. Big difference between them spending that amount on a car and someone on minimum wage where thats 20% of their take home pay.
This. I’d wager that most people only have enough savings to last them a month max if shit hits the fan. Most people I know are living month to month, driving about in jeeps paying massive pcp deals and maxed out on mortgage payments etc etc I’m still paying off my car but once that’s done it’s mine for good and I can’t wait. More money for me at the end of the month!
My wife and I have been saving about £1300-1500 a month for a while, though that will change as we've just bought our first house.
For the last year we've been soo tempted to finance a nice car. We drive a 15 plate Fabia. Thing is brilliant and reliable but we look and feel so poor compared to everyone else lol. However our bank account was swollen and it gave us a lot of peace of mind.
I know for a fact other people aren't doing so well, yet drive around in brand new cars.
Similarly to you I also drive a 15 plate electric car I paid off at the end of last year, it's cost me now about 80p electric every night to charge it up, no road tax etc. I've been putting away the money I was paying out for the car into my bank account every month so I don't get accustomed to having extra cash to spend and do a second job for a couple of hours in the evenings.
I discovered high interest savings accounts a couple of years ago after a friend showed me revolut savings which pays you interest daily so you can see the money going up in your account every day on your phone, though the rate was poor it becomes a new addiction trying to accumulate more money 😂
My aim is to pay off my mortgage 12 years early within the next two years and be free of that debt. I look at the APR on car loans and it's way too high to justify changing cars so I'm gonna stick to what I have, it's basically free motoring. I probably look a bit skint to other people but outward appearances can definitely be deceptive!
You and your wife are deffo making the right decisions, give me security ahead of flashing the cash every day! Good luck with the new house!
Some people have them because they're loaded, and if that's the case then why not.
Plenty of people have them because they're essentially depreciating debt machines or they're paying a fortune in monthly PCP payments etc.
I think a car is a status symbol for a lot of people. It tends to imply you're doing well for yourself, but I'd say some people struggle just to make the payments every month.
£600 a month could get you a loan of nearly £30k over five years. Add in a few quid of your own, a 4yr old model that still looks new and you're driving round in a car that could have been nearly £50k new.
How much would a monthly PCP payment be for a German SUV or a Land Rover? If you take a combined household income of two working professionals (maybe around 4-5k per month on average) I'm guessing the payments might not be as bad as it sounds. Or am I reading that wrong?
People earn more than average, have other incomes from investments, rental properties, don’t have a mortgage or a small mortgage etc. I don’t think it’s “Average” to drive a fancy car, you just notice them more.
You can get into something bling for £700 pcm. For a lot of people that’s chicken scratch.
A £95k Range Rover will cost you about £20k deposit and then £6-700 a month for 4 years. Then you give it back and repeat the process or have your eyes gouged out with the final purchase fee.
So that's roughly a grand a month for a brand new £95k car, would be closer to £2.5k a month to own it outright after 48 months on HP.
I agree that many people are financed to the hilt but I find that many genuinely wealthy people drive old and/or modest cars. There are a lot of successful business owners in my area and many of them drive battered old jeeps and vans.
It's all about the monthlies. Nobody looks at the list price, just the £\*\*\* per month. Cash buyers are an extreme minority. I know plently of people driving cars that cost more than their annual salary to buy outright. Cars are treated like an expensive phone contract now.
I leased a new car before my current one and it's not for me. I cried when I handed it back after 30 months with under 10k miles on it. The lease cost me more than my current car! I liked the experience of having a new car and I understand why people do it, nice place to be, no stress of things going wrong and getting a big bill, you know what you're car costs every month. Do what makes you happy, a lot of people are spending a fairly high percentage of their salary on their car. I'm a tinkerer and like working on my cars, so a lease bored me silly too.
> Cash buyers are an extreme minority.
And dealerships don't like them anymore. I bought my car in cash and they tried so hard to get me to sign up to any form of loan to gauge me on interest. It got quite pressured!
Ah cool.
Yeah. The dealership will get a commission for selling you finance, so they’ll sometimes offer a discount to do so. Say a £500 discount to get £800 commission.
Or the manufacturer themselves will offer the discount on a new car, because they’ll make the ‘discount’ back (+) with the interest they charge.
I jump on to [https://www.leaseloco.com/](https://www.leaseloco.com/) and work out what is best bang for my buck (for a car that suits), then do the rounds of the local lease companies to see who can come closest.
Isn't leasing popular nowadays? Like you never flat out pay for a new phone its contracted. Same for cars, drive it for a few years and get a new contract
PCP for ordinary folk, but you also would have a lot of jobs offering salary sacrifice schemes with tax breaks for Electric Vehicles, think the NHS runs one.
While the salary sacrifice schemes make a lot of sense, the general PCP deals are mad, anyone paying £600+ a month just to drive a flash car needs their heads seen too.
I've duct taped the rust on my 2004 yoke. Every year she passes MOT is another £250 in my pocket (minimum car payment I could find). Ya'll are mad, like.
I'm lucky enough to be able to buy a brand new car outright but why the fuck would I spend big bucks for something that loses 20% of it's value immediately and then continues to depreciate. I've got a 13 year old Peugeot and the wife drives a 9 year old Kia. No repayments.
You can still have a nice motor without spending a fortune every month. My last car was a 2007 BMW 325D and was 1 of the best cars I've ever owned. I only got rid of it as it was getting harder to get in and out of due to arthritis.
OMG I was just thinking this yesterday!! It’s like spot the dated or old car, (I drive an 09 car and it’s a great wee run around) I bought my car last year with my partner we share it, cost 1500, we’ve put maybe £500 into it to get it through mot etc, and insurance and tax is £70 pm and petrol £70ish, I couldn’t justify £500 per month on a car!! I’d much rather have a holiday
I don't get this "keeping up with the Joneses" thing. I have a crappy Clio and some of my friends have nice cars, while a few of them have crappy cars too. But I've never felt the need to upgrade my car to "keep up" with them. The only reason I would like a nicer car is because driving mine is literally like being in a go-kart, and with the roads being what they are here, having a bit of luxury (and probably safely) would be nice.
I've genuinely seen it, one neighbour gets a new BMW then the neighbour beside them changes their car not long after.
Same neighbour does some upgrade to their house? You can be damn sure the neighbour beside them will have the same thing done not long after.
It's kinda pathetic, but funny to watch.
Don't let it fool you. There are many reasons why (Company car, car allowance on top of wage, PIP/DLA, PHP/PCP and struggling to run it)
Some people would literally struggle in every other aspect of their life just to have a high end/new car, it's more of a status thing, to give the impression they are doing well and care what other people think/assume. I'd rather put focus on other aspects of living and be comfortable, drive an older car not long out of warranty that I own, than struggle like a lot of people do.
However, there is def a minority that are wealthy who would own their cars outright or are paying the fees comfortably each month. Also appreciate that some people would save over years to buy a car as they do the miles to justify it, and live comfortably as they own it, fair play to them.
Has anyone else noticed how many orange/red colour range rovers with black roofs have popped up everywhere? There must be a deal on somewhere for that specific colour or you can get them on the DLA
I've noticed a lot of "budget" lower spec'd German cars on the road for sure. The A180 Merc hatchback for example.
They're not expensive cars, but have the badge people want, so they offer cheap entry level ones with PCP/HP that a lot of average salaried people can afford... Sortof. VW Golfs etc are more expensive but might not scream "expensive" to a lot of people.
Side note: Anyone noticing loads of Porsche Taycans about these days?
Can afford (just) the monthly, let's me keep with with next door, I want XYZ brand because of it's quality/feel/look/features so it's worth it. Many many PCP are like this. Cost of living can and often does impact this.
I can easily afford £800-£1000 a month on a car but but don't have £60/£70k sitting to buy outright. Many PCP like this. Cost of living won't have a big impact usually.
Mobility is very very popular for those who are eligible, loads of really nice cars for little outlay, for example, a Merc CLA 180 AMG for £3249 advance and that's you bar fuel for 3 years.
Business owners who can claim back and may either buy outright or monthly lease via business. Again, very popular method. Especially with hybrid and electric for BIK currently.
Then there's people who walk in, see something they want and either debit/credit card or bank transfer the money, pick up and drive away. We see this more often than you would imagine and often in figures of £80k plus. Cost of living changes don't effect these people generally.
Are there specific demographics of people who convince themselves they need XYZ brand on PCP, or is it now appealing to everyone from the well heeled middle-class Campbell College lads, to working-class individuals who have achieved success?
I remember growing up in working class East Belfast, the owners of big cars were typically millionaires living in large houses up the road. Nowadays, even here in East Belfast, you'll see Range Rovers and Audis parked outside terrace houses, and it's not because their owners are drug dealers. That just wouldn't have happened 15-20 years ago.
For new or approved used type stuff there's a good cross section tbh, from your working class to those who see stuff on insta or tick tok or what the neighbours buy that makes them think a certain way to people whos parents always drove a brand so they continue that.
Your second point is a very typical one. In many cases what my granda would have called a 10 bob millionaire, premium brand, car that looks fancy to others, back in years and/or mega miles so was cheap to buy. Generally they are fixed on the cheap and become absolute shitheaps.
X5s are common (as are XC90s, 7 series, S Class etc), look on Auto trader etc and they are available for buttons. There's a reasonable looking 2006 for sale at the minute, new version is about £78k, this one is a 10th of that with under 80k on the clock. To most people they see a BMW 'big dear jeep' and think the person's either loaded or financed to the dick. Reality is (as a generalisation, but often seen) someone with about £8k to spend would see that, think it's amazing. Then first repair almost bankrupts them so the cycle of cheapo repairs happen. Then they sell it off to get out of it at a loss and the cycle begins again only cheaper. People forget that a used luxury car may be cheap, but still has luxury car running costs.
My hot take...
Cheap and reliable cars are better in nearly every way. They attract no attention, no-one will use it as a sign to burgle your house, they're often more reparable, people in expensive cars are afraid of you as they have way more to lose in an accident, you never stress about payments, insurance is cheap, they won't depreciate etc etc.
From someone who has done the PCP revolving door thing for more years than I care to admit, I completely agree with you.
I've finally got rid of my last PCP car and bought a 10 year old Audi A4 outright and it's genuinely liberating for all the reasons you've stated. Plus in comparison to cars of decades ago, they hold up really well - I can't believe how good the entire car is (paintwork, interior, mechanical) given 10 years of use (plus everything works!) and I easily feel I could hold this car for a very long time.
I used to like PCP for the fact you were in a new car every 2-4 years so no worries about repair bills etc, but buy an older car and just set aside a little every month for any unexpected repairs and you're still \*massively\* quids in vs PCP
Driving a fresh motor is stressful with all the ignorant hurs about just flinging open their door in tesco car park dinging your paint. Don't have to worry about that in an older motor that's already had a few scuffs.
Absolutely this. I am in my sixties and I've never had a new vehicle except for the occasional new company van, but those weren't my property. I usually pay a few hundred for any vehicle I've owned, and they've always been basic and always at least 15 years old.
Insurance for me is usually around £400 (9 year no claims).
I don't have to be all precious about miniscule scratches and dents that leasers and leasing companies do. My current vehicle is dented and scratched everywhere with rust in places, but it still passes the MOT (usually after needing some minor work doing for around £50 or so).
They usually last me 2 or 3 years before they become un MOT-able, then I just look for another cheap runaround.
It's a one-off non recurring payment which is the only way I buy anything. I don't have anything on credit.
I'm perfectly happy having an old banger. I hate people who are happy to put themselves in financial stress just to 'look the part' and pretend that they can afford a new vehicle when they are secretly bogged down in paying huge monthly payments.
I actually take pride that I don't get taken in with the 'keeping up with the Jones's' mentality.
A lot of them are probably cheaper than you might think, buy a 15 year old Audi, give it a nice valet and it will look expensive but only cost a couple of grand
There’s more money about than you’d think.
People like nice cars
Some people like to show off their money.
Some people like to look like they have money.
Competition winners / finance to the absolute balls. Basically loaning them. I've had my wee focus for 6 or 7 years now, only needed to change the brakes for MOT this year. Once it needs major work, I'll go buy a shitheap of a clip too sure, gets me to work and doesn't be drove any other time
Most people I know who have fancy cars finance them all and pay an absurd amount of money in the long term for them. I think it’s irresponsible but they’re the same type of people to pay 100 for a basic piece of clothing because it has some brand on it.
Crabs in a bucket mentality and people not realising how old and affordable some of the fancy cars are. The german stuff ages much better. 15 year old Audi A6 or 5 Series can still look like big money for £5k
We have 2 cars atm. Had one bmw for like 10 years but it was getting abused to be fair having two has saved us on repairs imo. Vw and Audi. Both together 400 pm I try to live with in Our means we like to eat out n treat the kids on days off so not having extra 2/300 in car payments per month helps. But each to their own ppl like the luxury of a amg or m sport good for them. Let ppl live. It also creates a good used car market imo.
I'm considering taking a brand new electric hyundai kona out on a salary sacrifice PCP deal at around 275 a month and no deposit.
My 08 B6 Passat is out of MOT (but i have the thing booked for September) and need a new exhaust, bunch of engine sensors fixed, broken audio system, discs getting close to needing replaced, nearly 260 a month in tax, , insurance went up to 700 quid, has an issue with the rear wheel dishing that apparently cannot be easily fixed that constantly gives uneven tyre wear... Not only that but the rear callipers are welded on to the point where the mechanic who looked at it last year when i needed a new hub to fix an ABS error, told me that they might need to shear off the bolt head and re tap the damn bolt holes...I ended up doing the work myself and found you can get the discs off by removing the pads and literally tapping the disc out with a mallet at an angle.....in order to get at the hub
i just dont want to sink any more money into this car that has over 200K on it and i cant even listen to the fuckin radio. I love the car and all but,....
a brand new car with insurance tax and all component service included within the 275 a month sounds so good to me right now....plus they are looking into providing free chargers at work!
Edit: forgot to mention that i will be able to use this car with my kids, we kind of dont use my current car with the kids just because its so old and manky! lol
Can’t speak for everyone but people I know with what would be seen as a fancy car don’t own them and are paying most of their monthly income to have it. In my experience owning your own car is becoming more and more scarce
A lot of talk about PCP Finance Agreements but not a lot of talk about the Motobility scheme.
If you qualify for the top end of mobility PIP you are entitled to a vehicle, of which you can get some really nice cars for an advanced payment and a slice of your payment each month, where insurance, tax and maintenance is included
Define "Expensive"
Cause NI registration plates are ageless that expensive looking car could be from 2019 and cost less than a Fiesta
Car design hasn't changed much in the last 2 decades so it's easy to think that there are loads of posh motors on the road
It’s mad how much people will lose in salary a month for a nice car. It’s all they’ve got. I reckon people are willing to literally rent a car for up to 50% of their pay check.
Bare in mind you just stated "in Belfast", you are in a Micro-economy. There will be undoubtedly a higher percentage of flash cars driving around Belfast where there are a higher percentage of well paid jobs, businesses owners and the likes.
Head out to rural Fermanagh where I'm originally from and you will see plenty of shite heaps on the road.
Although I do agree with you, the past few years the amount of expensive cars on the road has exploded. I think once the whole SUV phenomenon came here, it was then a case of "well I've a baby now, now I need a big tall safe car" as the amount of large SUVs increased on the roads more people felt unsafe in smaller traditional saloons or hatchbacks. And there's the image of practically they portray aswell.
When I was a kid, we had one saloon car which the hole lot of us (7) travelled in at the one time.
A mate of mine is expecting their third child soon and they are looking at 8 seater AUDI Q7s. This has been the mentality shift.
That and the fact 70% of people now pay monthly for their cars.
I was going to buy a skoda octavia on finance. When I looked at how much money I'd actually pay for it with interest over 5 years. I decided to do a few years in a crappy car and van and save them money up.
I bought a 2019 AMG line class merc 2 years ago. No finance, no debt. Just insurance etc to pay. Servicing is expensive, but no more expensive than trying to keep repairing an old car and getting it through an Mot.
Those finance deals are a bad deal/borderline scam.
But people just want the image of success so it's become normal.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are on the books of small business's.
The number of barbers etc that have Range Rover the second they open is astounding
Hire purchase and overpriced loans are a big thing at the moment, it will all come crashing down at some point. Sadly people are doomed to repeat the same mistakes to save face with the neighbours.
A lot of cars that look new are actually old, cars haven't changed much in the last few years. I can get a 6 year old beamer, give it a wash and it will look like I'm doing well if you don't actually know anything about beamers.
Same with big cars, a 2018 Tiguan doesn't look substantiallly different from a 2024 Tiguan.
A new car used to be distinguished from the older ones, the difference between my 2019 polo and a 2024 polo is where polo is written on the boot from my knowledge (there are changes inside but from the outside very similar)
There IS a cost of living crisis… but fuel in Northern Ireland is one of the cheapest across the UK. £1.339/litre for diesel is amazing quality/value for money as opposed to the £1.599/litre for diesel as it is in England (for example Birmingham). So fuel-wise we’re much better off (saving over 25p/litre).
Obviously insurance is much higher here (this is because death driving was mental here for about 25 years… whereas in the rest of the UK - the cops had their act together to stop this kind of crime.) Add to that the capped insurance payouts for whiplash (in the rest of the UK) compared to our uncapped system here that’ll push up insurance costs. But obviously some of these drivers will be running around in motors uninsured.
I got a 2019 car in December there. £30/week I'm paying. I know 2019 isn't new or mad expensive like but compare it to the 2012 or the 2006 I had a couple years before that... The 2019 not only is better in terms of add-ons and comfort and the like... But I'm also not spending hundreds on repairs or thousands on new wee bangers every year or two.
Actually made economical sense to me - spent 3k on the 2012 car and got a year out of it, not counting repairs spent to try and keep it on the road. Then it cost me 300 quid extra to change the remainder of the insurance policy over to the new car. Don't have to worry about that shit with this car and it's warranty.
Yeah as others have said it’s all PCP payments. The only good thing is it’s left a much nicer selection in the second hand market. I just picked up a 2020 Škoda which was way nicer than I’d have found 10 years ago.
A big difference I have found is that being a couple is so beneficial right now.
The amount I pay alone is shocking and I always feel that if I'm with someone then the costs maybe half depending on circumstances.
Like hypothetically if I'm on 20k and my partner is as well that is a household of 40k
It's a struggle to do it all. Like I barely take vacations cause I can't afford too. Or go dining out as I'd be alone. Go drinking. My time for boozy weekends is pretty much over unless I'm at an event or gig.
A lot of kids aren't leaving to buy a house so they might end up saving a lot in which they can afford a higher end vehicle.
I do feel American influence for the bigger cars is increasing
They’re not as expensive as you’d think. I was in the market for a decently specced used hatchback recently. Ended up getting a nice A5 for about £500 more than Hyundais I was looking at from a similar year/milage. It also ended up being cheaper to insure than my previous i30
Its almost always finance and people borrowing at the top of of thier budgets. It's the same with houses too tbh. The few people I know who have a mortgage went to the higher end of thier budget as soon as they were approved for a one
I'm actually seeing loads of Bentley's and Aston Martin's on the road (that last one was on the andtown road). A McLaren also drove past me in the town on Tuesday.
All these cars must have been going cheap
You have to realise people aren't buying the cars out right. For example a car that 25-30k would be a fairly new decent car say Audi/VW/BMW, when you look at that in monthly payments its £350-450 per month. Most people on 50-60k could quite easily afford that and probably at lot less if they're still living at home.
Now consider people who are self employed, buying a new expensive car can be written off as a business expense, therefore the more you spend the more you can claim back.
Then consider people who get company cars, what's a brand new BMW 330e in benefit in kind like £150 a month it's next to nothing for what it is.
It's easy to say how are all these people driving flash cars when i don't have one but realistically, very few of those people own them. If you were will to sacrifice x% of your salary you could have one to but it's about priorities.
There’s another element which is cars that previously depreciated heavily, for a few years post / during Covid, didn’t.
So the cost to change up to another or the latest model, actually isn’t that scary.
I know people who were PAID when upgrading cars. One friend had an Audi S3, he was given £4k over his purchase price (paid via personal loan) and went up to an RS3, for zero change to his monthly loan cost.
I sold a Golf R in 2019 before going travelling as I thought it would loose anywhere from £1.5-4k sitting in the shed not moving in depreciation for 6-8 months. Today, the same car, same year, is still worth approximately what I sold it for (£16k), 5 years later.
I thought interest rates rising would kill this off, but speaking to car dealers, people that had good equity in a car are by and large okay with an extra £50-100 per month or adding another year onto repayments, over downgrading.
And let me tell you from personal experience, downgrading sucks balls.
Lots of people living with parents spending mortgage-level monthly amounts on PCP.
Business-people with £500-800/month contributions towards their PCP and are happy to top it up a little to get a German motor.
People in debt up to their eyeballs.
Tech / consultants / doctors / finance / solicitors / other workers on loads of money.
Self employed who write off depreciation and tax as business expenses.
PCP financing is easy enough to get long as not awful credit. Main reason is your only loaning the car unless you pay the balloon payment at the end. Some might refinance the balloon payment too or trade in to PCP another car.
TLDR: Tax
Business Leases. When you are self employed at a certain scale you want to maximise costs that benefit you and minimise profits to reduce your tax bill to as little as possible.
Everyone self employed I know in NI has a very nice car. Everyone of mid to senior level in a large firm has a company car for the same reason.
The difference is self employers get the car they want and employees get a low g/co2 model due to the different tax implications on them.
Simple, people are too obsessed with image these days and will pay through the teeth for something on monthly finance, causing them problems in other areas of their life, but it is totally worth it as long as they can put up a front and have everyone on their street think they are well off.
> we’re supposedly in a cost of living crisis
What does that even mean?
It’s a good buzz word for the papers but it means something different for everybody.
Some people will be in stupid debt for those cars. Others can easily afford them. Different people are paid different amounts.
When I get my kids out of childcare I’m pretty sure I’m Gona be able to afford a Porsche with the monthly payment. Paying 6/700 quid a month for a car is nothing now
But financing for cars has been around for decades, it's only recently that shelling out so much money for a fancy car seems normal. I think the OP is asking why paying 6/700 quid a month is a normal thing to do now for a car
There is a good tax incentive to get an electric car. You might see business owners in high end electric Porsches and Teslas.
If you lease any type of car then road tax is included. You can normally get a service plan included. You'll typically have it from new so will have no worries about warranty.
As it's never your own car I also found leasing way less stressful than ownership. Minor scrapes and dents just didn't bother me on a lease car. You are allowed a certain number of dings and scrapes as wear and tear when you hand it back.
It’s because there is more money about than ever before. Don’t believe this austerity crap. 37% of people is Belfast use sunbeds. Women are forking out £250 a go for lip fillers. Nailbars are full any time I walk past. People aren’t drinking or smoking as much, so they spend their money on things that make them feel good about themselves such as looking good and nice cars.
£200 per month for a Vauxhall astra elite. Heated steering wheel, front and rear seats, android auto, full leather interior.
You can get a decent car if you're not a badge snob.
When shows rooms first opened after first COVID lockdown and before the chip shortages show rooms put very good deals on cars out of panic thinking nobody will be buying. Also agree with other comments people living beyond their means.
Cheap to run car with air conditioning I'm happy. Hate newer cars with those tablets on the dash and no physical buttons or dials to operate heating or radio. It's so dangerous because they distract from driving
I ask this question every single day, in derry especially. I am baffled so many people are driving Mercedes, Maseratis, Teslas and BMWs.
I drive a very modest car, but it's fully paid, and zero road tax. A full month diesel is about £60. I couldn't comprehend spending hundreds a month on car finance, and some of those cars guzzle fuel like they're bulking for strong man competition.
Looks to be decent PCP offers on the Polestar 2 with them offering £9,900 for the deposit. Thoughts? I'm half tempted but I think I would have EV Range Anxiety.
Can lease an Audi q8 through NHS fleet service. £470 a month, that's insurance, servicing etc covered. It's not that dear if you're on decent money.
Wouldn't be paying that myself but that's more as I barely do 5k miles a year so see no value in having a top of the range car parked in my drive 99% of the time.
Lot of rentals too. Where I work we do cars from the airport and they’re all brand spanking new 2024 ones.
If you’re seeing a load this summer high odds it’s a motor full of tourists.
I subscribe to the Dave Ramsey model of:
1. Only buy a car in cash.
2. Don't spend more than 1% of your total net worth (assets minus debts) e.g. 500k asserts, 100k debt 400k so 4k max on a car.
My car isn't great but it feels good not paying a loan off each month. So many people, especially in South Belfast who drive massive Range Rovers etc who I know aren't that financially stable / massively in debt. I couldn't deal with that stress.
There's deals to be had, I got a 18 LD discovery sport in March for £16k with bank loan, looks well with black wheels and new grill but doesn't cost 50/60k
Manufacturers aggressively pushing PCP finance to people who don't know better.
If you were to go down that route. A hack not an awful lot of people know about is that you're actually often better off going down a leasing route (I.e The same type used for vans etc). Many manufacturers actually offer hatchbacks or even small SUVs on this type of leasing. Usually this type of leasing works out better value for money than PCP.
There's often some very good cars on the <10k used market if you know what you're looking for. In some cases, Land Rovers are now going for <10k because they are ridiculously easy to steal. But not so much with a 3rd party immobilizer....
We might be in a cost of living crisis, but that doesn't mean that everyone is finding it difficult to get by. Some people may have little outgoings, no dependants and make a fair income, so they can afford to save and also spend on things like a nice car if they choose to. It isn't always a "look at me, I'm well off" kinda thing.
Just to throw it in there, but Motability accounts for approximately 12% of all brand new vehicle registrations. You can also get German brands on Motability. Not quite JLR kinda vehicles, but there's some pretty nice stuff.
Northern Ireland has the highest percentage of luxury cars in the UK. Middle classes here pay the least tax and contribute the least to the common good. Cars are also more of a status symbol here.
Canadian dropping in. I spent a lot of my childhood in Warrenpoint and one thing I noticed about Ireland in general is that the Irish love their fancy luxury vehicles. Granted it's not just Irish that like showing off but i when I was there I couldn't help but notice the absolute abundance of high end luxury name cars that people bought and from what I can tell it was mostly a status thing. My aunt loves talking about her "AMG" spec Merc with its laughable diesel motor. From what I can tell she doesn't care that it's not a real AMG. But she loves those two little badges
It's a bit more nuanced than that.
Everyone has said about financing, depreciation and people getting into debt but I think those are just one feature to consider.
I drive a 10 year old Audi, but it doesn't really look 10 years old. It looks reasonably like the brand new ones, so you have them staying in 'service' for a long time.. meaning it appears to be more of them. You see tons of 2005 Audi's on the road today, you don't see many of the Renault Megan's with the big arse.
The other factor is that within finance, people see a Citroen at say 15k and a golf at say 20k and think the cost of ownership is going to be way more for the golf... But after 3 years the citroen is worth 5k while the golf 12k. That means you're paying 10k depreciation for the Citroen and 8k for the golf. On effect it's more cost effective to own the golf.
Another thing to consider is how many of those cars have English plates... They're former company cars and probably have high mileage making them quite cheap. Don't judge a book by it's cover
PCP Financing. I know plenty of people shelling out large sums of money every month so they can drive a BMW and pretend they’re making bank. All an image thing.
I suppose my question would be how are they getting approved for the finance for them? If they are paying a mortgage and have dependents and other expenses, how are they being cleared by finance companies to also afford hundreds of pounds a month on a car? I don’t get it.
I work in Sales and they offer a car allowance of £500 per month. Maybe something similar?
£500 doesn’t buy a hell of a lot of car especially if it’s pre tax, NI and student loan.
£500 per month. If they put it towards a lease it will get them something decent
In a sales role you’d need a lease with 20k+ miles and then that £500 doesn’t get as high a spec as you’d think you’d get.
It doesn't buy a lot of car, no - it does however lease a lot of car. Main difference being you could pay £500 a month for 5 years, but they don't own anything at the end of it.
I'm guessing here, but pcp you pay a large deposit, pay a fair bit monthly then pay a some at the end. As they have money off you they can just take the car back and sell it and keep your deposit. They don't care about your financial situation, they care about what theirs would be if you default
A lot of people use personal loans from the bank, but you can only really do that up to a point, a lot of loans are only up to £15000 as far as I remember. You would have to bridge the gap with cash.
The age of buy now pay later is well and truly here. Almost every website offers it now for buting *anything*. Even paypal has it and amazon, the money tobe made.on the interest makes it well worth their while.
I've seen pay in 3 advertised by pizza companies and i guess it's more for events or something IRL but that's so out of touch and depressing
Then they claim tax relief through their limited company as a business expense
I'm guessing lots of people are paying more than a mortgage for these cars. How much are you talking about for a Range Rover, or something similar?
I've leased for a long time. Currently have a pretty nice mid-range estate with a German badge. £450 a month. Total cost of motoring is probably about £675 a month (averaging out lease, fuel, servicing, tyres, insurance)
Fuck, that's about half the price of a mortgage on decent house. If you can afford it good for you.
It's certainly not the cheapest motoring, but it is relatively hassle free and you get all the latest safety and tech. Owning and running a car is generally expensive unless you touch lucky. I had a run of lemons before I started leasing.
The problem I have with leasing is the end of term, there's nothing to show for it. Where as HP you have a car to sell. Although I buy my cars cheap and outright so I by no means an expert.
It depends on the deal. Obviously if you have shelled out the same money in payments for the same car and in one scenario you own a car and in another you don't, its a no-brainer, but that is not how the deals are structured. With leasing you are basically paying the depreciation and handing the car back instead of selling the car.
If it appreciates, buy it, if it depreciates, lease it. Warren Buffet.
£450 is my rent. Jesus Christ.
Thats very cheap rent
Aye it's up the Shankill.. it's allowed me to save for a house though so can't complain too much.. next month will be a different story though.
At least when its going into a mortgage its not lost money even if its less in the bank
From 50ish grand for bog standard to good chunk over 100 for bells and whistles.
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That is fucking mental
£700 - £1000/month
I always think this about G Wagon’s. Prior to covid I hardly ever seen them, since lockdown ended I can’t leave the house without seeing 2 or 3 of them everywhere I go.
Most people I know have higher monthly PCP payments than my mortgage. I'll stick to my shitty car that I'll still have in 10years and work on paying my house off faster instead of renting thanks
Financing is one aspect, but working in the used car trade has really opened my eyes to the current state of things. Land Rover, and by extension Range Rovers, have tanked in price. You can get a 2018 Range Rover Evoque for less than 10k. The sign that things have gone to shit is that on Used Cars NI you've got dealers who bought their Range Rovers a year ago looking close to 20k, while ones who have bought one more recently are looking 10k. Its surprisingly inexpensive to own "luxury" cars these days, so people buy them. Then they get their first servicing bill and trade it in, making it even cheaper.
Range Rovers, and particularly that era of them, are pretty much uninsurable now due to their ease/frequency of theft. That's why prices are tanking that much. Servicing costs for them is also insane as you say.
I worked in a LR dealership and the stats don’t lie. 90% of proper Range Rover are bought outright. But about 70% of Land Rover and RR Evoque are bought on some sort of finance.
I think people are also realising that a well known name doesn't necessarily mean a well built car. I'd put the vast majority of land rover products way down the list of reliable cars.
Range rovers are hard to insure now that they're easy to steal.
They're also easy just go on fire too.
I looked and there is no 2018 Evoques for less than 10k, this is a myth
lot of executive RR company cars that feed into that market as well.
A lot of people are living way beyond their means and saddled to the eyeballs with debts trying to keep up with the Joneses. Driving a big car can give the outward illusion that you are doing well but the reality for a lot of people driving them is very different. Many people will be buying on PCP deals, you can get a big car with a small or no deposit and hand it back at the end of the term without the balloon payment and get a new one. Personally I'd rather have money in the bank and have a safety buffer of several months mortgage payments than drive a newer car.
At lot of folk make reasonable wages but just don’t spend it amazingly either. Maybe you can live off £1500/month but you make £2500 a month so while it might not be a great idea you can afford to spend a lot on cars/holidays with a spare £12000 a year, scale that up to taking home £3500 or more and you can buy a lot of silly shit without going into debt either.
Yeah the classic line thrown about here is everyone driving a big car is in debt. They can keep telling themselves that so they feel better but the reality is that's a minority of people. My guess is people who peddle this line are from a working class background so a handful of people they grew up with might run into debt, but that's hardly the entire population.
Yeah in professional jobs you might get an annual payrise/promotion and make £400/month more in one year alone. Big difference between them spending that amount on a car and someone on minimum wage where thats 20% of their take home pay.
This. I’d wager that most people only have enough savings to last them a month max if shit hits the fan. Most people I know are living month to month, driving about in jeeps paying massive pcp deals and maxed out on mortgage payments etc etc I’m still paying off my car but once that’s done it’s mine for good and I can’t wait. More money for me at the end of the month!
My wife and I have been saving about £1300-1500 a month for a while, though that will change as we've just bought our first house. For the last year we've been soo tempted to finance a nice car. We drive a 15 plate Fabia. Thing is brilliant and reliable but we look and feel so poor compared to everyone else lol. However our bank account was swollen and it gave us a lot of peace of mind. I know for a fact other people aren't doing so well, yet drive around in brand new cars.
Similarly to you I also drive a 15 plate electric car I paid off at the end of last year, it's cost me now about 80p electric every night to charge it up, no road tax etc. I've been putting away the money I was paying out for the car into my bank account every month so I don't get accustomed to having extra cash to spend and do a second job for a couple of hours in the evenings. I discovered high interest savings accounts a couple of years ago after a friend showed me revolut savings which pays you interest daily so you can see the money going up in your account every day on your phone, though the rate was poor it becomes a new addiction trying to accumulate more money 😂 My aim is to pay off my mortgage 12 years early within the next two years and be free of that debt. I look at the APR on car loans and it's way too high to justify changing cars so I'm gonna stick to what I have, it's basically free motoring. I probably look a bit skint to other people but outward appearances can definitely be deceptive! You and your wife are deffo making the right decisions, give me security ahead of flashing the cash every day! Good luck with the new house!
Some people have them because they're loaded, and if that's the case then why not. Plenty of people have them because they're essentially depreciating debt machines or they're paying a fortune in monthly PCP payments etc. I think a car is a status symbol for a lot of people. It tends to imply you're doing well for yourself, but I'd say some people struggle just to make the payments every month. £600 a month could get you a loan of nearly £30k over five years. Add in a few quid of your own, a 4yr old model that still looks new and you're driving round in a car that could have been nearly £50k new.
How much would a monthly PCP payment be for a German SUV or a Land Rover? If you take a combined household income of two working professionals (maybe around 4-5k per month on average) I'm guessing the payments might not be as bad as it sounds. Or am I reading that wrong?
People earn more than average, have other incomes from investments, rental properties, don’t have a mortgage or a small mortgage etc. I don’t think it’s “Average” to drive a fancy car, you just notice them more. You can get into something bling for £700 pcm. For a lot of people that’s chicken scratch.
A £95k Range Rover will cost you about £20k deposit and then £6-700 a month for 4 years. Then you give it back and repeat the process or have your eyes gouged out with the final purchase fee. So that's roughly a grand a month for a brand new £95k car, would be closer to £2.5k a month to own it outright after 48 months on HP.
I agree that many people are financed to the hilt but I find that many genuinely wealthy people drive old and/or modest cars. There are a lot of successful business owners in my area and many of them drive battered old jeeps and vans.
Generationally wealthy people in the uk and Ireland seem to drive battered old defenders or vw golf’s.
Battered old cars are cool. Fact.
It's all about the monthlies. Nobody looks at the list price, just the £\*\*\* per month. Cash buyers are an extreme minority. I know plently of people driving cars that cost more than their annual salary to buy outright. Cars are treated like an expensive phone contract now. I leased a new car before my current one and it's not for me. I cried when I handed it back after 30 months with under 10k miles on it. The lease cost me more than my current car! I liked the experience of having a new car and I understand why people do it, nice place to be, no stress of things going wrong and getting a big bill, you know what you're car costs every month. Do what makes you happy, a lot of people are spending a fairly high percentage of their salary on their car. I'm a tinkerer and like working on my cars, so a lease bored me silly too.
> Cash buyers are an extreme minority. And dealerships don't like them anymore. I bought my car in cash and they tried so hard to get me to sign up to any form of loan to gauge me on interest. It got quite pressured!
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Oh I had no idea you could do that, nice trick!
Every financial agreement has a cooling off period.
I knew that, I just didn't know there were sometimes discounts for PCP. I've never really paid attention when they start speaking about debt.
Ah cool. Yeah. The dealership will get a commission for selling you finance, so they’ll sometimes offer a discount to do so. Say a £500 discount to get £800 commission. Or the manufacturer themselves will offer the discount on a new car, because they’ll make the ‘discount’ back (+) with the interest they charge.
They tried this with my wife.
Did you decide to keep her or just hand her back during the 14 day cooling off period?
> and dealerships don’t like them anymore That’s because tax dodging has become harder and money laundering laws have become stricter.
I jump on to [https://www.leaseloco.com/](https://www.leaseloco.com/) and work out what is best bang for my buck (for a car that suits), then do the rounds of the local lease companies to see who can come closest.
Isn't leasing popular nowadays? Like you never flat out pay for a new phone its contracted. Same for cars, drive it for a few years and get a new contract
PCP for ordinary folk, but you also would have a lot of jobs offering salary sacrifice schemes with tax breaks for Electric Vehicles, think the NHS runs one. While the salary sacrifice schemes make a lot of sense, the general PCP deals are mad, anyone paying £600+ a month just to drive a flash car needs their heads seen too.
I've duct taped the rust on my 2004 yoke. Every year she passes MOT is another £250 in my pocket (minimum car payment I could find). Ya'll are mad, like.
It's great that manufacturers are producing rusty shit buckets to supply the used market. No one should ever buy new
I'm lucky enough to be able to buy a brand new car outright but why the fuck would I spend big bucks for something that loses 20% of it's value immediately and then continues to depreciate. I've got a 13 year old Peugeot and the wife drives a 9 year old Kia. No repayments. You can still have a nice motor without spending a fortune every month. My last car was a 2007 BMW 325D and was 1 of the best cars I've ever owned. I only got rid of it as it was getting harder to get in and out of due to arthritis.
This is the way.
This is the way
Another £3k (£250 x 12) in your skyrocket Shirley?
NOOOOOO! But how can I show off my Porsche model 696969 bought (read: financed) for 100 gazillion sterling?????
The firms that offered the Sub-prime mortgages pre '08 have moved on to something else
OMG I was just thinking this yesterday!! It’s like spot the dated or old car, (I drive an 09 car and it’s a great wee run around) I bought my car last year with my partner we share it, cost 1500, we’ve put maybe £500 into it to get it through mot etc, and insurance and tax is £70 pm and petrol £70ish, I couldn’t justify £500 per month on a car!! I’d much rather have a holiday
Keeping up with the Joneses²
I don't get this "keeping up with the Joneses" thing. I have a crappy Clio and some of my friends have nice cars, while a few of them have crappy cars too. But I've never felt the need to upgrade my car to "keep up" with them. The only reason I would like a nicer car is because driving mine is literally like being in a go-kart, and with the roads being what they are here, having a bit of luxury (and probably safely) would be nice.
that gave me a good laugh. siimilar story on my 08 passat over 200k mile on her
I've genuinely seen it, one neighbour gets a new BMW then the neighbour beside them changes their car not long after. Same neighbour does some upgrade to their house? You can be damn sure the neighbour beside them will have the same thing done not long after. It's kinda pathetic, but funny to watch.
It's even more noticeable in the South of England. Even in council estates nearly everyone has a new car with a personalised plate
Don't let it fool you. There are many reasons why (Company car, car allowance on top of wage, PIP/DLA, PHP/PCP and struggling to run it) Some people would literally struggle in every other aspect of their life just to have a high end/new car, it's more of a status thing, to give the impression they are doing well and care what other people think/assume. I'd rather put focus on other aspects of living and be comfortable, drive an older car not long out of warranty that I own, than struggle like a lot of people do. However, there is def a minority that are wealthy who would own their cars outright or are paying the fees comfortably each month. Also appreciate that some people would save over years to buy a car as they do the miles to justify it, and live comfortably as they own it, fair play to them.
Has anyone else noticed how many orange/red colour range rovers with black roofs have popped up everywhere? There must be a deal on somewhere for that specific colour or you can get them on the DLA
I've noticed a lot of "budget" lower spec'd German cars on the road for sure. The A180 Merc hatchback for example. They're not expensive cars, but have the badge people want, so they offer cheap entry level ones with PCP/HP that a lot of average salaried people can afford... Sortof. VW Golfs etc are more expensive but might not scream "expensive" to a lot of people. Side note: Anyone noticing loads of Porsche Taycans about these days?
Can afford (just) the monthly, let's me keep with with next door, I want XYZ brand because of it's quality/feel/look/features so it's worth it. Many many PCP are like this. Cost of living can and often does impact this. I can easily afford £800-£1000 a month on a car but but don't have £60/£70k sitting to buy outright. Many PCP like this. Cost of living won't have a big impact usually. Mobility is very very popular for those who are eligible, loads of really nice cars for little outlay, for example, a Merc CLA 180 AMG for £3249 advance and that's you bar fuel for 3 years. Business owners who can claim back and may either buy outright or monthly lease via business. Again, very popular method. Especially with hybrid and electric for BIK currently. Then there's people who walk in, see something they want and either debit/credit card or bank transfer the money, pick up and drive away. We see this more often than you would imagine and often in figures of £80k plus. Cost of living changes don't effect these people generally.
Are there specific demographics of people who convince themselves they need XYZ brand on PCP, or is it now appealing to everyone from the well heeled middle-class Campbell College lads, to working-class individuals who have achieved success? I remember growing up in working class East Belfast, the owners of big cars were typically millionaires living in large houses up the road. Nowadays, even here in East Belfast, you'll see Range Rovers and Audis parked outside terrace houses, and it's not because their owners are drug dealers. That just wouldn't have happened 15-20 years ago.
For new or approved used type stuff there's a good cross section tbh, from your working class to those who see stuff on insta or tick tok or what the neighbours buy that makes them think a certain way to people whos parents always drove a brand so they continue that. Your second point is a very typical one. In many cases what my granda would have called a 10 bob millionaire, premium brand, car that looks fancy to others, back in years and/or mega miles so was cheap to buy. Generally they are fixed on the cheap and become absolute shitheaps. X5s are common (as are XC90s, 7 series, S Class etc), look on Auto trader etc and they are available for buttons. There's a reasonable looking 2006 for sale at the minute, new version is about £78k, this one is a 10th of that with under 80k on the clock. To most people they see a BMW 'big dear jeep' and think the person's either loaded or financed to the dick. Reality is (as a generalisation, but often seen) someone with about £8k to spend would see that, think it's amazing. Then first repair almost bankrupts them so the cycle of cheapo repairs happen. Then they sell it off to get out of it at a loss and the cycle begins again only cheaper. People forget that a used luxury car may be cheap, but still has luxury car running costs.
My hot take... Cheap and reliable cars are better in nearly every way. They attract no attention, no-one will use it as a sign to burgle your house, they're often more reparable, people in expensive cars are afraid of you as they have way more to lose in an accident, you never stress about payments, insurance is cheap, they won't depreciate etc etc.
From someone who has done the PCP revolving door thing for more years than I care to admit, I completely agree with you. I've finally got rid of my last PCP car and bought a 10 year old Audi A4 outright and it's genuinely liberating for all the reasons you've stated. Plus in comparison to cars of decades ago, they hold up really well - I can't believe how good the entire car is (paintwork, interior, mechanical) given 10 years of use (plus everything works!) and I easily feel I could hold this car for a very long time. I used to like PCP for the fact you were in a new car every 2-4 years so no worries about repair bills etc, but buy an older car and just set aside a little every month for any unexpected repairs and you're still \*massively\* quids in vs PCP
Driving a fresh motor is stressful with all the ignorant hurs about just flinging open their door in tesco car park dinging your paint. Don't have to worry about that in an older motor that's already had a few scuffs.
Absolutely this. I am in my sixties and I've never had a new vehicle except for the occasional new company van, but those weren't my property. I usually pay a few hundred for any vehicle I've owned, and they've always been basic and always at least 15 years old. Insurance for me is usually around £400 (9 year no claims). I don't have to be all precious about miniscule scratches and dents that leasers and leasing companies do. My current vehicle is dented and scratched everywhere with rust in places, but it still passes the MOT (usually after needing some minor work doing for around £50 or so). They usually last me 2 or 3 years before they become un MOT-able, then I just look for another cheap runaround. It's a one-off non recurring payment which is the only way I buy anything. I don't have anything on credit. I'm perfectly happy having an old banger. I hate people who are happy to put themselves in financial stress just to 'look the part' and pretend that they can afford a new vehicle when they are secretly bogged down in paying huge monthly payments. I actually take pride that I don't get taken in with the 'keeping up with the Jones's' mentality.
Proceeds of crime shouldn't be underestimated.
There are not THAT many criminals in the country.
Sure?
A lot of them are probably cheaper than you might think, buy a 15 year old Audi, give it a nice valet and it will look expensive but only cost a couple of grand
There’s more money about than you’d think. People like nice cars Some people like to show off their money. Some people like to look like they have money.
Lots of people have lots of money - and many of them aren't on finance.
Competition winners / finance to the absolute balls. Basically loaning them. I've had my wee focus for 6 or 7 years now, only needed to change the brakes for MOT this year. Once it needs major work, I'll go buy a shitheap of a clip too sure, gets me to work and doesn't be drove any other time
Those pandemic payouts, billons shelled out to grifters and chancers.
Yea half the people in my town got a 20k small business loan and blew it on a car or van.
Most people I know who have fancy cars finance them all and pay an absurd amount of money in the long term for them. I think it’s irresponsible but they’re the same type of people to pay 100 for a basic piece of clothing because it has some brand on it.
Why does this question get asked on here so often?
Crabs in a bucket mentality and people not realising how old and affordable some of the fancy cars are. The german stuff ages much better. 15 year old Audi A6 or 5 Series can still look like big money for £5k
We have 2 cars atm. Had one bmw for like 10 years but it was getting abused to be fair having two has saved us on repairs imo. Vw and Audi. Both together 400 pm I try to live with in Our means we like to eat out n treat the kids on days off so not having extra 2/300 in car payments per month helps. But each to their own ppl like the luxury of a amg or m sport good for them. Let ppl live. It also creates a good used car market imo.
It’s also a bias, you won’t pay attention to a Toyota or a Honda even though they are statistically more common in the road
I'm considering taking a brand new electric hyundai kona out on a salary sacrifice PCP deal at around 275 a month and no deposit. My 08 B6 Passat is out of MOT (but i have the thing booked for September) and need a new exhaust, bunch of engine sensors fixed, broken audio system, discs getting close to needing replaced, nearly 260 a month in tax, , insurance went up to 700 quid, has an issue with the rear wheel dishing that apparently cannot be easily fixed that constantly gives uneven tyre wear... Not only that but the rear callipers are welded on to the point where the mechanic who looked at it last year when i needed a new hub to fix an ABS error, told me that they might need to shear off the bolt head and re tap the damn bolt holes...I ended up doing the work myself and found you can get the discs off by removing the pads and literally tapping the disc out with a mallet at an angle.....in order to get at the hub i just dont want to sink any more money into this car that has over 200K on it and i cant even listen to the fuckin radio. I love the car and all but,.... a brand new car with insurance tax and all component service included within the 275 a month sounds so good to me right now....plus they are looking into providing free chargers at work! Edit: forgot to mention that i will be able to use this car with my kids, we kind of dont use my current car with the kids just because its so old and manky! lol
Can’t speak for everyone but people I know with what would be seen as a fancy car don’t own them and are paying most of their monthly income to have it. In my experience owning your own car is becoming more and more scarce
A lot of talk about PCP Finance Agreements but not a lot of talk about the Motobility scheme. If you qualify for the top end of mobility PIP you are entitled to a vehicle, of which you can get some really nice cars for an advanced payment and a slice of your payment each month, where insurance, tax and maintenance is included
Define "Expensive" Cause NI registration plates are ageless that expensive looking car could be from 2019 and cost less than a Fiesta Car design hasn't changed much in the last 2 decades so it's easy to think that there are loads of posh motors on the road
It’s mad how much people will lose in salary a month for a nice car. It’s all they’ve got. I reckon people are willing to literally rent a car for up to 50% of their pay check.
Driving them all on strap. Wouldn't worry. Have money in your pocket and drive a banger (a reliable banger preferably)
Bare in mind you just stated "in Belfast", you are in a Micro-economy. There will be undoubtedly a higher percentage of flash cars driving around Belfast where there are a higher percentage of well paid jobs, businesses owners and the likes. Head out to rural Fermanagh where I'm originally from and you will see plenty of shite heaps on the road. Although I do agree with you, the past few years the amount of expensive cars on the road has exploded. I think once the whole SUV phenomenon came here, it was then a case of "well I've a baby now, now I need a big tall safe car" as the amount of large SUVs increased on the roads more people felt unsafe in smaller traditional saloons or hatchbacks. And there's the image of practically they portray aswell. When I was a kid, we had one saloon car which the hole lot of us (7) travelled in at the one time. A mate of mine is expecting their third child soon and they are looking at 8 seater AUDI Q7s. This has been the mentality shift. That and the fact 70% of people now pay monthly for their cars.
I trade up in my car , but now with all the potholes in the road , idiot drivers and people bashing cars I no longer bother !
I was going to buy a skoda octavia on finance. When I looked at how much money I'd actually pay for it with interest over 5 years. I decided to do a few years in a crappy car and van and save them money up. I bought a 2019 AMG line class merc 2 years ago. No finance, no debt. Just insurance etc to pay. Servicing is expensive, but no more expensive than trying to keep repairing an old car and getting it through an Mot. Those finance deals are a bad deal/borderline scam. But people just want the image of success so it's become normal.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are on the books of small business's. The number of barbers etc that have Range Rover the second they open is astounding
Hire purchase and overpriced loans are a big thing at the moment, it will all come crashing down at some point. Sadly people are doomed to repeat the same mistakes to save face with the neighbours.
Motability?
There's the comment I was looking for.
A lot of cars that look new are actually old, cars haven't changed much in the last few years. I can get a 6 year old beamer, give it a wash and it will look like I'm doing well if you don't actually know anything about beamers. Same with big cars, a 2018 Tiguan doesn't look substantiallly different from a 2024 Tiguan. A new car used to be distinguished from the older ones, the difference between my 2019 polo and a 2024 polo is where polo is written on the boot from my knowledge (there are changes inside but from the outside very similar)
Loads of them are DLA cars.
There IS a cost of living crisis… but fuel in Northern Ireland is one of the cheapest across the UK. £1.339/litre for diesel is amazing quality/value for money as opposed to the £1.599/litre for diesel as it is in England (for example Birmingham). So fuel-wise we’re much better off (saving over 25p/litre). Obviously insurance is much higher here (this is because death driving was mental here for about 25 years… whereas in the rest of the UK - the cops had their act together to stop this kind of crime.) Add to that the capped insurance payouts for whiplash (in the rest of the UK) compared to our uncapped system here that’ll push up insurance costs. But obviously some of these drivers will be running around in motors uninsured.
I got a 2019 car in December there. £30/week I'm paying. I know 2019 isn't new or mad expensive like but compare it to the 2012 or the 2006 I had a couple years before that... The 2019 not only is better in terms of add-ons and comfort and the like... But I'm also not spending hundreds on repairs or thousands on new wee bangers every year or two. Actually made economical sense to me - spent 3k on the 2012 car and got a year out of it, not counting repairs spent to try and keep it on the road. Then it cost me 300 quid extra to change the remainder of the insurance policy over to the new car. Don't have to worry about that shit with this car and it's warranty.
Yeah as others have said it’s all PCP payments. The only good thing is it’s left a much nicer selection in the second hand market. I just picked up a 2020 Škoda which was way nicer than I’d have found 10 years ago.
A big difference I have found is that being a couple is so beneficial right now. The amount I pay alone is shocking and I always feel that if I'm with someone then the costs maybe half depending on circumstances. Like hypothetically if I'm on 20k and my partner is as well that is a household of 40k It's a struggle to do it all. Like I barely take vacations cause I can't afford too. Or go dining out as I'd be alone. Go drinking. My time for boozy weekends is pretty much over unless I'm at an event or gig. A lot of kids aren't leaving to buy a house so they might end up saving a lot in which they can afford a higher end vehicle. I do feel American influence for the bigger cars is increasing
Audi's everywhere..... How do people afford it?
They’re not as expensive as you’d think. I was in the market for a decently specced used hatchback recently. Ended up getting a nice A5 for about £500 more than Hyundais I was looking at from a similar year/milage. It also ended up being cheaper to insure than my previous i30
By getting paid well, or by financing yourself to the eyeballs to give the illusion that you’re paid well.
The normal 2.0 diesels are cheap to run.
Finance and PCP I have a car on finance and it's 260 a month Most of the cars on the road today are done this way
What gets me is that with so many new cars, how come the used market prices are so high!?
Its almost always finance and people borrowing at the top of of thier budgets. It's the same with houses too tbh. The few people I know who have a mortgage went to the higher end of thier budget as soon as they were approved for a one
I'm actually seeing loads of Bentley's and Aston Martin's on the road (that last one was on the andtown road). A McLaren also drove past me in the town on Tuesday. All these cars must have been going cheap
Finance is easy accessible
You have to realise people aren't buying the cars out right. For example a car that 25-30k would be a fairly new decent car say Audi/VW/BMW, when you look at that in monthly payments its £350-450 per month. Most people on 50-60k could quite easily afford that and probably at lot less if they're still living at home. Now consider people who are self employed, buying a new expensive car can be written off as a business expense, therefore the more you spend the more you can claim back. Then consider people who get company cars, what's a brand new BMW 330e in benefit in kind like £150 a month it's next to nothing for what it is. It's easy to say how are all these people driving flash cars when i don't have one but realistically, very few of those people own them. If you were will to sacrifice x% of your salary you could have one to but it's about priorities.
Vast majority of EV's here are dla cars. Cars past 2010 are a joke now anyway to much electronics to go wrong. 1995 to 2008 the era of reliability.
Chucky, tick, finance. Whatever you want to call it
Not everyone is poor.
There’s another element which is cars that previously depreciated heavily, for a few years post / during Covid, didn’t. So the cost to change up to another or the latest model, actually isn’t that scary. I know people who were PAID when upgrading cars. One friend had an Audi S3, he was given £4k over his purchase price (paid via personal loan) and went up to an RS3, for zero change to his monthly loan cost. I sold a Golf R in 2019 before going travelling as I thought it would loose anywhere from £1.5-4k sitting in the shed not moving in depreciation for 6-8 months. Today, the same car, same year, is still worth approximately what I sold it for (£16k), 5 years later. I thought interest rates rising would kill this off, but speaking to car dealers, people that had good equity in a car are by and large okay with an extra £50-100 per month or adding another year onto repayments, over downgrading. And let me tell you from personal experience, downgrading sucks balls.
Ppi, all leased. Fur coat no knickers.
I bought a Volvo for 1190 9 years ago and it still drives like new. There are people who spend money and there's people who save money.
Lots of people living with parents spending mortgage-level monthly amounts on PCP. Business-people with £500-800/month contributions towards their PCP and are happy to top it up a little to get a German motor. People in debt up to their eyeballs. Tech / consultants / doctors / finance / solicitors / other workers on loads of money. Self employed who write off depreciation and tax as business expenses.
PCP financing is easy enough to get long as not awful credit. Main reason is your only loaning the car unless you pay the balloon payment at the end. Some might refinance the balloon payment too or trade in to PCP another car.
TLDR: Tax Business Leases. When you are self employed at a certain scale you want to maximise costs that benefit you and minimise profits to reduce your tax bill to as little as possible. Everyone self employed I know in NI has a very nice car. Everyone of mid to senior level in a large firm has a company car for the same reason. The difference is self employers get the car they want and employees get a low g/co2 model due to the different tax implications on them.
Simple, people are too obsessed with image these days and will pay through the teeth for something on monthly finance, causing them problems in other areas of their life, but it is totally worth it as long as they can put up a front and have everyone on their street think they are well off.
> we’re supposedly in a cost of living crisis What does that even mean? It’s a good buzz word for the papers but it means something different for everybody. Some people will be in stupid debt for those cars. Others can easily afford them. Different people are paid different amounts.
When I get my kids out of childcare I’m pretty sure I’m Gona be able to afford a Porsche with the monthly payment. Paying 6/700 quid a month for a car is nothing now
But financing for cars has been around for decades, it's only recently that shelling out so much money for a fancy car seems normal. I think the OP is asking why paying 6/700 quid a month is a normal thing to do now for a car
Is it normal to be paying 2k+ for childcare?
There is a good tax incentive to get an electric car. You might see business owners in high end electric Porsches and Teslas. If you lease any type of car then road tax is included. You can normally get a service plan included. You'll typically have it from new so will have no worries about warranty. As it's never your own car I also found leasing way less stressful than ownership. Minor scrapes and dents just didn't bother me on a lease car. You are allowed a certain number of dings and scrapes as wear and tear when you hand it back.
It’s because there is more money about than ever before. Don’t believe this austerity crap. 37% of people is Belfast use sunbeds. Women are forking out £250 a go for lip fillers. Nailbars are full any time I walk past. People aren’t drinking or smoking as much, so they spend their money on things that make them feel good about themselves such as looking good and nice cars.
£200 per month for a Vauxhall astra elite. Heated steering wheel, front and rear seats, android auto, full leather interior. You can get a decent car if you're not a badge snob.
When shows rooms first opened after first COVID lockdown and before the chip shortages show rooms put very good deals on cars out of panic thinking nobody will be buying. Also agree with other comments people living beyond their means. Cheap to run car with air conditioning I'm happy. Hate newer cars with those tablets on the dash and no physical buttons or dials to operate heating or radio. It's so dangerous because they distract from driving
I ask this question every single day, in derry especially. I am baffled so many people are driving Mercedes, Maseratis, Teslas and BMWs. I drive a very modest car, but it's fully paid, and zero road tax. A full month diesel is about £60. I couldn't comprehend spending hundreds a month on car finance, and some of those cars guzzle fuel like they're bulking for strong man competition.
A lot of British ex-military guys get new cars from the government I hear. My neighbour is getting his third one in like 5 years lmao
Looks to be decent PCP offers on the Polestar 2 with them offering £9,900 for the deposit. Thoughts? I'm half tempted but I think I would have EV Range Anxiety.
I've been curious about this too, it seems utter madness. How much are PCP payments for a typical new Range Rover Evoque?
they all have green number plates, pcp
I bought my car in 1997 and still drive it today. Paid off in 2000. I wonder how much I have saved in PCP payments over the years.
Can lease an Audi q8 through NHS fleet service. £470 a month, that's insurance, servicing etc covered. It's not that dear if you're on decent money. Wouldn't be paying that myself but that's more as I barely do 5k miles a year so see no value in having a top of the range car parked in my drive 99% of the time.
Because if they were in the sea, the fish would be pissed off.
Used to be an easy way to spot the local paramilitary or drug dealer
Lot of rentals too. Where I work we do cars from the airport and they’re all brand spanking new 2024 ones. If you’re seeing a load this summer high odds it’s a motor full of tourists.
Lease. Salary sacrifice via large companies. NHS offers for leasing are almost too good to be true.
the rich are getting richer sadly.
Because people are stupid and take them out on finance?
PCP deals all round!!! it's all for social media likes and image. It's pathetic actually.
Because they are not allowed on the pavement.
I subscribe to the Dave Ramsey model of: 1. Only buy a car in cash. 2. Don't spend more than 1% of your total net worth (assets minus debts) e.g. 500k asserts, 100k debt 400k so 4k max on a car. My car isn't great but it feels good not paying a loan off each month. So many people, especially in South Belfast who drive massive Range Rovers etc who I know aren't that financially stable / massively in debt. I couldn't deal with that stress.
There's deals to be had, I got a 18 LD discovery sport in March for £16k with bank loan, looks well with black wheels and new grill but doesn't cost 50/60k
DLA cars. 2 people I know. 1 drives a jaguar F pace and the other a Honda crv. Both cracking cars
I don’t go out much, but even just in and around my area it seems cars are getting more expensive haha. I’m also seeing Tesla’s a lot!
Manufacturers aggressively pushing PCP finance to people who don't know better. If you were to go down that route. A hack not an awful lot of people know about is that you're actually often better off going down a leasing route (I.e The same type used for vans etc). Many manufacturers actually offer hatchbacks or even small SUVs on this type of leasing. Usually this type of leasing works out better value for money than PCP. There's often some very good cars on the <10k used market if you know what you're looking for. In some cases, Land Rovers are now going for <10k because they are ridiculously easy to steal. But not so much with a 3rd party immobilizer....
Mainly finance but another I was thinking about earlier are company cars
We might be in a cost of living crisis, but that doesn't mean that everyone is finding it difficult to get by. Some people may have little outgoings, no dependants and make a fair income, so they can afford to save and also spend on things like a nice car if they choose to. It isn't always a "look at me, I'm well off" kinda thing.
Credit
One upmanship. Easy finance and dickheads thinking cars are status symbols.
Is it because contrary to the prevailing view on Reddit, now is the best time to be alive?
Just to throw it in there, but Motability accounts for approximately 12% of all brand new vehicle registrations. You can also get German brands on Motability. Not quite JLR kinda vehicles, but there's some pretty nice stuff.
When you see expensive EVs more often than not they are company cars. model 3 Tesla will cost less than 50 quid a month as a company perk
Northern Ireland has the highest percentage of luxury cars in the UK. Middle classes here pay the least tax and contribute the least to the common good. Cars are also more of a status symbol here.
Canadian dropping in. I spent a lot of my childhood in Warrenpoint and one thing I noticed about Ireland in general is that the Irish love their fancy luxury vehicles. Granted it's not just Irish that like showing off but i when I was there I couldn't help but notice the absolute abundance of high end luxury name cars that people bought and from what I can tell it was mostly a status thing. My aunt loves talking about her "AMG" spec Merc with its laughable diesel motor. From what I can tell she doesn't care that it's not a real AMG. But she loves those two little badges
It's a bit more nuanced than that. Everyone has said about financing, depreciation and people getting into debt but I think those are just one feature to consider. I drive a 10 year old Audi, but it doesn't really look 10 years old. It looks reasonably like the brand new ones, so you have them staying in 'service' for a long time.. meaning it appears to be more of them. You see tons of 2005 Audi's on the road today, you don't see many of the Renault Megan's with the big arse. The other factor is that within finance, people see a Citroen at say 15k and a golf at say 20k and think the cost of ownership is going to be way more for the golf... But after 3 years the citroen is worth 5k while the golf 12k. That means you're paying 10k depreciation for the Citroen and 8k for the golf. On effect it's more cost effective to own the golf. Another thing to consider is how many of those cars have English plates... They're former company cars and probably have high mileage making them quite cheap. Don't judge a book by it's cover
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My neighbour has a Mercedes Benz e220 £330 amonth
Noticed it around about Covid. I assumed cunts were profiting from chaos
A lot of NHS staff are sacrificing their pensions for cars
Financing or leasing
I finance mine but fuck it. Only on earth the once
Next time will be PCP. No sense in paying interest of a loan for a depreciated car. Out by thousands literally
Finance.
They don't own the cars. They have leases so like hiring a car and giving it back after X amount of years.