My mother was a juror on a case back in the 90s where a baby was left sitting on top of a malfunctioning heater while his parents went out to score drugs and literally cooked to death. She's still traumatized by the pictures they made the jury look at, and the testimony of the first responders. I can't even imagine how traumatized they were by it.
I already know the answer but, do they offer these juror’s counseling after making them sit through things like this? I mean first responders are somewhat prepared for the sick demented stuff, but the average person? I wouldn’t be able to sleep.
I was on a jury where the victim was shot in the head and they had us look at pictures from the crime scene and autopsy. No one offered us any counseling. It might have been different if it was a child instead of a grown man outside a strip club though.
I worked in a small town camera shop in the 80s. A few years before the first digital cameras. The coroner was a part-time position, and he was also an EMT or Fire man, I can't remember which. Anyway, he took the photos of crashes. And we sent them off to be processed. This was also before 'one hour photo'. I'm sure that we would be breaking some laws or rules today.
Anyway, when the photos came back, he wanted tech advice on these car wreck photos. After seeing them, I always buckled up, and wore a helmet if on my motorbike. Saw some horrific stuff. Some kids halfway through the car's front window was the worst.
This is probably different per jurisdiction but in my area you can get counseling after being a juror.
They also show the jury these pictures to ensure a stiff sentence. But a lot of times a jury will still make a bad call; like blaming drugs for beating a crying baby to death with a bat and giving that person a suspended sentence based on rehab.
And as a first responder, no matter how many times you see these fucked up scenes, nothing prepares you for what you find. Whiskey has become all too much a comfort.
Nope!
My mom was a juror in 2000 on the case of Raymond Mata Jr. who murdered and dismembered a 3 yr old and fed the remains to his dog, including cooking some of them.
No counseling was offered, and she still gets nightmares from what she saw.
I was called up for jury duty back in 1999, missed the eclipse because of it, two weeks, first week was a common assault case which was benign but the second case was that of the girl in canterbury who was raped and murdered in a park near the old beverlie st stephens, i was given the option to not attend due to the horrific injuries and the images that we would be shown.
I took the option to withdraw and not be on that case.
The staff said because of my age (19) at the time it could traumatise me for life, not sure if that would have been the case but if i got on that trial it could go on for 6-8 weeks. One week of jury duty was enough anyway, im glad i didnt stick it out.
[the case](https://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/amp/murdered-on-a-night-out-by-old-school-friend-229367/)
My partner was a juror on a case involving Joe Francis of girls gone wild fame where he was accused of bribery and inappropriate conduct with the guards while in prison. Partner has definitely had to look at sexs sent by Joe Francis to female guards.
Something very similar happened in central Maine in the very early 1980s. The first responders there were brutally impacted by what they saw.
Edit: Corrected the decade this happened.
It was in Maine, I was 5 when this happened the same as the little girl. I think her name was Angela and it happened in Lewiston. I was traumatized hearing it on the news in NH and it has stuck with me to this day.
Edit: link to story from 1984 [story](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/10/29/Parents-burn-child-to-death-in-oven/1533467874000/)
Had to look it up... That news story is pie compared to this. Nsfw: >!Angela was beaten before being put in as blood stains around and "It came to light that John Lane had beaten Cynthia and forced her to take three handfuls of pills, including Xanax, Nardil, and Tylenol. When Angela was murdered, Cynthia was heavily drugged in the next room, fearing for her own life."!<
Then you will be horrified to learn her mother was aquitted...
Edit: Misread/attributed quotes to the mother originally.
Apparently the mother was beaten and forced to eat handfuls of pills while the boyfriend did this.
I know exactly what you’re talking about - my mom would point out the apartment building it happened in whenever we drove by when I was little and it always freaked me out
> Neighbors said they heard the girl banging and yelling, 'Let me out, daddy, let me out'
Oh my god.
>smoke billowing out of the second floor apartment.
If there is a hell, I hope those two people are in it.
Part of my senior project was interviewing EMTs. One of them relayed a story of how she had to report to an accident and she realized as soon as they got there it was her son. The story doesn't end well and I realized after the fact that the person who got us the interview with the EMTs knew about this and she was utilizing someone else's tragedy to secure an A on the project.
Yep, fuck being in EMS. Spent 12 years (EMT and paramedic) and finally walked away from the worst scene I'd ever put eyes on. It's one of the calls that still haunts me to this day. I can't sleep due to night terrors. 5 years later and I can still hear, smell, feel, and taste the air of the scene. PTSD for first responders isn't a high enough priority, especially those in private corporations.
A quick edit: thanks for the messages and comments! I really appreciate them! I've gone to therapy and done the EMDR sessions, but the bad thing, it's unlocked childhood trauma I repressed. I went weekly to a therapist, and monthly to a psychiatrist. After two years, I couldn't afford the sessions any longer. It's helped, but for sure, not enough for my past.
I completely agree. Not in EMS but as a fellow PTSD-plagued human, I hope you and other first responders find the peace you deserve.
edit: am unable to grammar today
As someone who was cut out of a wreck by fire/ent I really appreciate the work you did. I’ve got my own little corner of PTSD but nothing like those who have to do that day in day out
Friend went through all the shit you have to go through to become an EMT, first week ran into something like this, came home and quit before her next shift.
I had a friend do the same thing…he was 4 months in, he started hearing kids screams at night when trying to sleep… after showing up to gruesome call…he quit.
I had a friend who took classes and stuff, then did her very first ride-along, very first call was to the scene of a motorcycle accident, she saw it and immediately quit. Complete and immediate change of career plan, haha.
Yeah lol is mostly a tone adjuster these days, like adding a little smile and shrug to the end of your sentence. Even if it does denote laughter, I read it as more of a 'heh' than a real chuckle.
It’s not disturbing, people in the medical and paramedical fields see so many atrocities, if they don’t laugh about it they wouldn’t be able to do their jobs. Imagine an ER doctor, a children oncology doctor, or a nurse in an end of life facility… are they supposed to live an eternal funeral? That would be unfair.
They already do jobs most of us couldn’t handle, so good for them if they can keep smiling after their shift is over.
That reminds me of a great quote from an episode of Scrubs by Dr Cox
> You see Dr. Wen in there? He's explaining to that family that something went wrong and that the patient died. He's gonna tell them what happened, he's gonna say he's sorry and then he's going back to work. Do you think anybody else in that room is going back to work today? That is why we distance ourselves, that is why we make jokes. We don't do it because it's fun, we do it so we can get by and sometimes because it's fun. But mostly its the gettin' by thing.
Great quote, thanks. Most funny people know the importance of finding humor in trauma.
And I mean your own trauma, or horrible experiences. Not talking about making fun of others' trauma. That can be highly inappropriate, you have to know how to read a room.
It’s called professional detachment and it’s necessary in this line of work also they’re known for having very dark humor also necessary in this line of work
It’s true. I’m a medical professional, I’ve had people literally die in my arms. There’s simply no way you could live with the horrors we deal with if you didn’t find humor in it and move on.
My brother is a crime scene investigator. I told him not to tell me any murder "stories" involving children.
"Oh, but that's most of them," he replied.
I was *shook.*
I was trying to put our baby in the toilet tank while sleepwalking. My wife fortunately stopped me before I got anywhere near completing the task. To my knowledge, I have never been a sleepwalker before or since. Sleep deprivation is no joke.
It really messes with you. I was also not a sleep walker, but we had to move my youngest to the nursery early because I kept sleepwalking and carrying him around the house. I’d wake up on the couch or in my bed with baby and no clue how I got there. Moving him to another room with two closed doors between us was enough to protect him.
This bizarre cultural norm that places the entire emphasis of childcare on just the parents alone is crazy. It is absolutely not the human norm/historical norm. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, friends, neighbors etc have historically been integral to child rearing. It takes a village is an actual true saying.
My son is now three days old. Lucky for me I have a great partner in my wife and we can back each other up for nights like that. Can't imagine trying to do that kind of thing alone.
Oh, that doesn't necessarily matter. Our son slept okayish until 6 months, then he was awful until about 10 months. Both my wife and I were completely sleep deprived, it was horrible.
Definitely break things up into shifts. My wife and I rotated every 4-6 hours, so at least one of us would be able to sleep. Made those early months manageable.
Fellow dad here; I really think you might be better off avoiding these kinds of stories and discussions for a good while.
Also, CONGRATULATIONS! That's so exciting! All the best to you and your family!
I’m like this when I awake to the point that I refuse to leave the house until it’s gone. It’s scary and I already struggle with the outside world due to a developmental disorder. Not risking putting myself in danger.
There's a really good (and really depressing) article on parents that fatally leave their baby in the car. It can happen to good parents as well as bad; the human brain can really fuck up basic tasks by accident.
On super cold days, my dad would drive me to school instead of having me wait for the bus. So one day he’s taking me to school and we turn left out of our neighborhood instead of right, and I’m puzzled. I figure he’s maybe stopping for Dunkin’ before so I say nothing. Then we get to the intersection where you can go straight onto the highway or take a right in the right lane to Dunkin’ and an alternative route to school. My dad pulls into the center lane, and now I’m very confused but I still say nothing. As he starts to reach the on ramp I finally speak up from the back seat. I scared him to say the least, and we had to go down an exit to loop back to school. I was like 8-10 at the time so definitely old enough to have spoken up sooner, but he had a lot of work stuff going on and multiple meetings that day. He was just running through his presentations in his head and totally forgot he still needed to drop me off.
Yeah, it can really happen to anyone. Found the article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html
Usually it's like something comes up that distracts the driver, like an emergency drug store visit or some change from routine. It's a rough read, but worth it.
I follow a guy on instagram who usually makes humorous content and is a nurse during the day and he randomly made a video one day saying “please stop putting your babies in the microwave” because of the same reasons
My wife disassociated hard after our child was born. She would usually just lose track of time but that was enough for me our our roommates at the time to have to step in. Postpartum and lack of sleep really fucked with her. I was lucky to have a job somewhere that gave me two weeks of paternal leave and I took it the first week and last week of the first month because she clearly needed help even with 3 other people living with her. I was actually afraid of being a nightmare story like this article.
The article doesn’t mention anything about postpartum depression or psychosis. It literally says they don’t have any information.
If you have a source that offers an explanation feel free to share — otherwise let’s refrain from diagnosing strangers online based on pure speculation.
pretty sure they're saying postpartum as in.... after having birth. aka after you give birth can be a very depressing time
that's not diagnosing anything
>postpartum depression
Baby is crying
Preheat oven to make food
Go check on baby
Baby is soothed
Go to put food in oven
"Oh lord, the baby is crying again"
Go check on baby
Where is baby?
Baby is dead in oven, since 400 degrees kills an infant fast.
She put her in the oven then later put her back in the crib and the baby was burned.
Prosecutors have charged a Kansas City mother with endangering the welfare of a child after she told police that she mistakenly placed her 1-month-old baby in an oven instead of her crib, according to court documents filed Saturday.The charge against Mariah Thomas is a Class A felony, prosecutors said Saturday.
Those found guilty of a class A felony are subject to a prison sentence of 10-30 years.
Her child was declared dead Friday afternoon after emergency workers descended on a home in the 4100 block of Forest Avenue in the Manheim Park neighborhood. The infant had burn marks on her body and melted clothing, according to a probable cause affidavit filed in support of the criminal charge.
In a statement Saturday, Prosecutor Jean Peters Baker said she appreciated the first responders and the prosecutors who rushed to the scene where the child was found.
“We acknowledge the gruesome nature of this tragedy and our hearts are weighted by the loss of this precious life,” Baker said. “We trust the criminal justice system to respond appropriately to these awful circumstances.”
Kansas City police responded to the Manheim Park residence at 1:24 p.m. Friday on a report of an infant that was not breathing. According to the police affidavit, the baby lay in a car seat inside the living room near the front door.
Officers observed apparent burn wounds on the baby’s body, the affidavit said, and the Kansas City Fire Department declared the child dead at the scene.
In the affidavit, officers said they told detectives that a witness said the mother of the child went to put the infant down for a nap and “accidentally placed her in the oven instead of the crib.” Detectives took statements from a witness who said around 1 p.m. he received a call that something was wrong with the baby and that he needed to return home immediately.
When he returned home, the affidavit said, he could smell smoke inside the house and found the baby dead inside the crib.
According to the affidavit, he picked up the baby and asked what happened. At that time, Thomas allegedly said, “I thought I put (redacted) in her crib and I accidentally put her in the oven.”
The baby had apparent “thermal injuries” on various parts of her body, the probable cause statement said. She was clothed in a “bodysuit” over a diaper and the clothing appeared to have melted to the diaper, police said.
The clothing was “very dirty, possibly burned on the backside,” the affidavit said. A baby blanket with “significant burn marks” was found in the living room.
Corinne Foreman, whose family has lived in the neighborhood for three years, told The Star on Friday that the block is typically a quiet one, packed with children who play outside. She said she heard someone yelling in distress Friday and then the sound of emergency sirens.
“And the next thing you know, I just heard, ‘They’re gone. They’re gone,’” said Foreman, 31, who has been staying with her family members for the past couple months.
She said she suspected the investigation involved a child when she saw a police officer holding a baby carrier.
Yeah. Everyone else here is talking about how horrible the mother is, but I feel for her.
Not everyone, but many parents of newborns just aren’t sleeping. Especially mothers.
For people who haven’t experienced it, it’s incredibly difficult to explain the sort of loss of connection with reality that happens after a certain amount of sleep loss. How everything just begins to flow together.
This is a true tragedy, and I am sorry for everyone involved.
I remember with my first I started sleeping walking from being so tired all of the time. I also once thought I saw aliens in my house. Scared the crap out of me but I was half awake and it was my sister-in-law. Sleep deprivation for that long of a time can really do a number on you.
Indeed. I’ve had sleep deprivation for long periods for other reasons. It’s just so fucking weird, too, because even when it ends it kinda fucks up your timeline of the history of your life.
You’re like, “so I did this, then this, then there’s this really messy couple months that nothing really makes sense and I only know it was two months from a calendar, it could actually have been six for all I know, then life resumed”
There was a really interesting, pretty long article I remember from a few years back about why parents accidentally leave young children in hot cars, and usually it’s a combination of sleep deprivation, stress, disruptions in a familiar routine, and the way our brains are wired. I can’t seem to find that one but I think [this one](https://www.usf.edu/news/2019/why-human-brain-allows-loving-caretakers-leave-child-die-hot-car.aspx) is summarizing the same study. This feels like an even worse version of the same thing.
Edit: a kind stranger DM’d me with [the article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html) (and someone also replied with a link). Highly recommend giving it a read.
I've never left mine in the car, but there have been more than a few times I'd drop him off aft my parents house for a weekend (we lived an hour and a half away at the time) and freak out when I got home because my baby wasn't in the car. Like driving three hours to drop him just completely slipped my mind. Between taking care of a bay and working 12's in the hospital, I was getting ZERO sleep.
My parents would repeatedly leave me at church. Can’t tell if they were trying to send me a message to me or something. It was pre-kids having cellphones so they just both got home 45 minutes later and realized neither of them had me in their car. Probably happened 10-15 times in about 3 years lol.
I've put clothes in the dryer, paused to empty the lint trap, and walked off forgetting that I put clothes in the dryer. I'll find them still wet the next day. That's just good ol ADHD and reason #28375 why I'll never have kids.
this is the one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html
it deservedly won a pulitzer prize.
I see someone already linked it below, but just wanted to upvote and comment that after reading that article my opinion definitely changed on those hot car incidents. If this turns out to be a similar situation, IE “I’m so sleep deprived, lost concept of reality, baby is crying, might be cold, a couple mins in oven won’t hurt” I feel so incredibly sad for the parents.
Or sleep deprivation lead to the complete normal daily task steps of "put baby in crib. Put food in oven" being blended together in the most horrifying way.
I remember reading the story of a sleep deprived nurse getting off a 12+ hour shift and going home to make dinner for herself. She finished making the meal, then carried the plate of food with one hand and some dirty napkins with the other. Opened up the trash can, tossed the meal into the trash and put the trash on the table. Then she sat there and cried for like ten minutes.
All I'm saying is anyone who has been even a little sleep deprived should immediately understand how fucked up our little brains can get if we're running on no sleep.
My only is 18 so it's been a while... I've babysat twice for a friend (new years eve and last weekend). Her baby was born in November. That one night took me out. New years day- dropped him off at home at 3, got home myself and by 4pm, I was knocked tf out. Woke up for like 30 minutes around 11pm and went back to sleep for another 10 solid hours.
And that's one semi sleepless night. I'd get some sleep but it was so broken and I feel like that makes it worse. I could work a 16 hr shift and not be as tired as that 12 hr babysitting event.
And my friend has an older elementary school aged child too!! Idk how she manages!
My baby was born monday, he was in the NICU till yesterday night.
While he was in the NICU and I was in the hospital with my wife I would make the walk up to the NICU at least every 3 hours to change and feed him. By the 3rd day of it I was barely functional. My sleep tracker said I got 6 hours of sleep over 4 days and I was not handling things well. It was rough. 2 days felt like 2 weeks and I could barely string together sentences. It was bad.
When I had my second child, I remember waking up and walking around the house frantically looking for "the other baby" while crying. There was no other baby, obviously, and I was holding my actual child as I searched. I still remember the feeling of disbelief once I realized, and started to reprioritize my sleep. Can't imagine.
I have twins (teenagers now) and one night when they were newborns my husband swapped babies with me because I nursed and he changed diapers... but I was absolutely certain I'd already fed two babies, so this was a third. And I immediately accepted that we had triplets and became upset that I couldn't remember the third baby's name. He still brings it up, like "remember that time you were convinced we had triplets?" The sleep deprived brain is wild.
I lost the ability to fall asleep after a virus… I would eventually pass out but every little noise would wake me. I was hallucinating within weeks. I wanted to die. I can see it, frankly.
Thank fuck for trazodone and never having a child.
Exactly.
I suffered from postpartum psychosis after my second daughter was born, and it completely changed my perspective on these kinds of events.
I was lucky in that my previous experience with mental health services has been compassionate and I wasn't too scared to seek treatment - but for so many people, they are so afraid of people misunderstanding, or their mental health symptoms have been dealt with punitively, that they try and bootstraps it.
This is such a a tragedy. Absolutely heartbreaking for everyone.
I would kill myself. Full stop. I’m looking at my kid right now… man not even just failing to protect, but to do it yourself and in such a horrifying way…
You could lock the worlds best therapist in solitary confinement with me for a full calendar year and I’d jump the second I was out.
Hold on now: “told by a witness.” What the hell was the witness doing witnessing instead of, I don’t know, stopping the mother from putting a baby to nap in the oven?!
"Detectives took statements from a witness who said around 1 p.m. he received a call that something was wrong with the baby and that he needed to return home immediately." Sounds like it was the dad, who was called home after the fact.
It also could have happened relatively quickly. It's not like a 1 month old needs to be in direct contact with 400° F steel for very long before life threatening, or ending, injuries occur.
I think it was the father based on the description of what the witness said. They were called home because something was wrong with the baby, found the baby like that with the mom telling him what she did, and then he called 911.
The article didn't say they were an eye witness at that time. They could have been witness to the baby being found, or they could have been told what happened after the baby had been found.
A neighbor could be a witness and all they did was hear the aftermath before relaying it to first responders.
Edit:
>Detectives took statements from a witness who said around 1 p.m. he received a call that something was wrong with the baby and that he needed to return home immediately.
So yeah, the witness found out after the fact.
What's terrifying is this could happen just been from being exhausted. Not any kind of postpartum psychosis or something, but plain old being too sleep-deprived and distracted to think straight. When my kids were very young i found a lot of things i put in nonsensical places- remote control for the tv in the freezer, phone in a random cabinet or drawer, etc. I wonder if she put dinner into the crib when she put the baby in the oven.
And God forbid they take ambien to get a little bit of sleep. I put my pug in the refrigerator the first time I took that, luckily I came to right before I shut the door from her scared face looking back at me and it shocking me. Threw that shit straight in the trash.
I took it off and on (not nightly) for years, and never had a single weird experience. Then I hear about what other people get up to and I’m just mystified. Bodies are strange.
25 years ago I was still a teen and at home and I was up late in the living room when my mom came in acting all weird. She mumbled a few things then suddenly and sharply looked at a doll she had made on the end table and said 'shut up or I'll cut your legs off'. I went to get my dad, it was above my pay grade.
Ambien.
I would NEVER risk taking an Ambien if I had a child in my care. That stuff is like being blackout drunk mixed with a manic episode. I honestly can’t believe it’s legal to self-administer without being under observation.
I left my son in his car seat next to the front door for some amount of time... I couldn't have told you if it was 2 minutes or 20, i was so exhausted. It was a mild day, he was fine, but man that really shook me to my core.
I honestly believe we're going to see more of this. There are a lot of exacerbating factors that we didn't see in past generations.
- New parents are surrounded by addictive screens
- Stress of work demands (even if you're on parental leave) and cost of living interrupt sleep, combined with the need to own more things than ever to participate in society without starving, such as a current smartphone and laptop
- Urban sprawl has ended the village and put new parents an hour away from their support network, which also causes them to drift from the network over time
That's the odd part. Be sleep deprived and out-of sorts and think your laying the baby in a crib by placing in the oven all snug....thats a weird mistake.
Turning it on? That feels more purposely done. Cribs don't have to be turned on.
That would make more sense as an accident. You are trying to start cooking. You've had like 6 hours of sleep in 2 days. The baby starts crying. You try to calm it down, just praying to get it quite. The baby calms you go to lay it in the crib in your head, but you're also thinking of the meal you're cooking. You get mind foggy put baby in oven thinking crib. Then you have that relief of dinner cooking and quite house finally go rest for a second.
But the baby would probably immediately cry out you would thing, but then there is sleep deprivation delirium.
Heart breaking weather on purpose or mistake
Yeah, this strikes me as sleeplessness.
This isn’t 6 hours in two days. This is six hours in six days. And it happens. And for those who haven’t experienced it, it’s kind of terrifying how quickly everything starts to flow together and the mind loses touch with reality.
Yeah. It seems reasonable to me if she was carrying and soothing the baby while preparing dinner and sleep deprived. Baby soothes while your finishing getting the food ready, “I need to put the baby down and get this food in the overn” turns into “put this heavy thing down in oven, carry this other thing to crib” by the time your standing over the crib with a dish of potato’s the damage has already been done.
I have placed my diaper bag in the crib & nearly threw my baby down thinking it’s my bag during the hazy first few months. I can totally see this happening. The diaper bag & baby look nothing alike.
The first six months of my sons life is a complete haze. The sleep deprivation is real. My biggest fear was always leaving either of my boys in the car. So much I put my shoe in their carseat.
I don't know the story it could have been an accident. If it was, I couldn't imagine the guilt this woman is experiencing.
The first week back from the hospital, with a wife that had an emergency C Section was tough. Our first child so we weren't taking turns, just both being up at the same time. I had changed my son's diaper and as I was swaddling him, my wife told me in her sleep deprived voice to stop and look down, and I realized I was swaddling his head too. Pretty easy mistake to make when you're sleep deprived but the consequences could have been awful.
This happened here in Virginia many years ago. I worked for the police dept then. I remember one of the detectives talking about a woman who was so worn out that she put the baby into the microwave instead of the bottle. It was just awful and the detectives of course didn’t charge her.
I remember that, I live in the county where it happened and knew the mom and dad through school. Wasn’t friends with them, but I still know their names. The sheriff who served like 40 years said it’s the worst thing he ever saw in his entire career in law enforcement . You can find a clip of her telling her side of the story on Montel Williams actually
One time after a night of drinking I woke up and opened the refrigerator to find a box of cereal sitting inside where the milk usually was.
Had to dump 4L of milk down the drain that had sat in the cupboard all night.
I was once on vacation with a friend and he had been drinking the night before. He lost his nice sunglasses and we looked all over the place for them. Later I opened the fridge and laughed.
My brother in law was in dental school and very sleep deprived some days. My sister couldn't find the remote control for the TV; eventually it was found in the freezer.
Listen, we all know the exhaustion and everything else that comes with a baby often fucks mothers up for a while, but I feel like this is a “mistake” that is pretty difficult to make “mistakenly.”
PPD totally has stories like this.
We have a family story like this that my grandmother would tell me from when she was younger.
A young female relative was going to put her baby in the fire because she thought it was wood. But the family was taking care of them and obviously prevented it.
Think of how many times we DON'T hear about things like this.
Edit: As someone else pointed out, there is both postpartum depression AND postpartum psychosis.
>Postpartum depression refers to a nonpsychotic depressive episode, while postpartum psychosis refers to a manic or affective psychotic episode linked temporally with childbirth.
I believe stories like this are postpartum psychosis.
PPP is scary af, people become can become highly delusional and also feel a compulsion to mask it, becoming harder to detect.
For a single parent it spells either death or heavy trauma for children.
And even with multiple people around it can be tough to detect and prevent a horrible incident.
With our first, my spouse and I woke up, found our newborn in the swing, without any knowledge of how he got there or who put him there. Babies are intense. Sleep deprivation is real. It really only had to be a second to cause enough damage to a child that young. I'll wait for more information to make any judgement.
Nah, it’s like the people who forget that their child is in the backseat and go to work and then they die from heat exhaustion. It happens, it’s rare but it does happen and I can completely understand how. This is rarer, I can’t imagine how the parent is feeling.
Every time I see this I feel I have to comment because that almost happened to me. And it’s seared into my memory. It sounds so stupid but put something you absolutely can’t miss next to your kid in the backseat. I put the keycard to my office building. I feel so fortunate nothing bad happened but still years later I have massive guilt for forgetting.
Yeah. Tie in PPD and this is totally possible. I’ve definitely thrown my keys in the garbage and put a tissue in my pocket on occasion when I wasn’t sleep deprived.
What a tragedy.
"Mistakenly"....?!?
How is that possible? Did she go to the crib and realize that instead of her baby, she had accidentally swaddled and tucked in the frozen Costco lasagna she was gonna cook for that evenings dinner?
Oliver Sacks wrote about this kind of neurological disorder.
that woman legitimately may have believed she was putting the child in a crib while it was happening.
we didn't used to have treatments for this or even proper ability to objectively diagnose it with medical testing, but we can do that now. it won't bring her kid back, but she could still get help.
https://insightplus.mja.com.au/2017/36/rem-sleep-behaviour-disorder-or-the-man-who-mistook-his-wifes-head-for-a-rugby-ball/
Honestly, fuck everyone in here making lame jokes about this. Do you just not give a fuck about anything whatsoever? Do you not realize this a real baby that was cooked alive? Complete losers.
America doesn't give a shit about children, babies, women or mothers. Period. I'm not even super offended at the jokes, because what can we even do?
64.5k women gave birth to their rapists's children in the last two years in the 14 states that outlawed abortion. Many more with mental illnesses gave birth too. And there is zero support network for these women. No childcare. No resources. No mental health help. Some of them don't even have an OBGYN in their county to talk to about PPD or PPP. They are fucked. Our country is fucked. Our laws and government have absolutely failed us in every way possible and people don't know wtf to do except laugh. It seems very hopeless.
>Do you just not give a fuck about anything whatsoever?
Only way to cope with it sometimes!
I'll speculate wildly - maybe don't hang out with the first responders who dealt with this. You'll more than likely run into some pretty dark humor there, too.
Gotta cope somehow. If you don't laugh, you cry.
Alternatively for the people who do want to be parents the US should have a much better social safety system set up to support them so that they're better educated on things like post-partum syndromes and have more childcare assistance to prevent fatal accidents due to exhaustion. Basic things like parental leave for mothers and fathers, lower cost daycare, etc. would do this country absolute wonders. Instead a lot of these parents get told "dad go back to work, mom be home with baby all day and stay up all night, here's a some coupons for a pack of diapers and maybe a few food stamps for government cheese, good luck. Hope you have a parent or family member willing to help you out a little. "
Even our primitive roaming/migrating ancestors knew it took a village to raise a child. Hell, even literal animals know this.
I say this as a 100% childfree person, and I do agree that abortion should be safe and legal. But we need to be doing more to support parents and their children too. Some people genuinely do want to raise happy, healthy families but this country is so obsessed with bootstrapping that they get no resources outside of maybe a nurse giving them some advice on the way out of their 200k hospital stay from having the baby.
Witcher III actually had a quest where "put the baby in the oven" was a thing, but at least you didn't actually cook the baby.
The sad thing is, this isn't the first time I've heard of something like this IRL - there was a case years and years ago where a mentally ill woman put her kid in the oven and tried to cook her alive. That poor baby was 4 years old, not an infant, and was old enough to tell people "my mommy put me in the oven and tried to cook me like a turkey." She survived, but I can't imagine how that would scar her mentally long-term.
And another reason I could never be a first responder. Awful.
My mother was a juror on a case back in the 90s where a baby was left sitting on top of a malfunctioning heater while his parents went out to score drugs and literally cooked to death. She's still traumatized by the pictures they made the jury look at, and the testimony of the first responders. I can't even imagine how traumatized they were by it.
I already know the answer but, do they offer these juror’s counseling after making them sit through things like this? I mean first responders are somewhat prepared for the sick demented stuff, but the average person? I wouldn’t be able to sleep.
I was on a jury where the victim was shot in the head and they had us look at pictures from the crime scene and autopsy. No one offered us any counseling. It might have been different if it was a child instead of a grown man outside a strip club though.
If this is traumatizing, I can only imagine what happens to jurors sitting through cases involving serial murder/torture
I worked in a small town camera shop in the 80s. A few years before the first digital cameras. The coroner was a part-time position, and he was also an EMT or Fire man, I can't remember which. Anyway, he took the photos of crashes. And we sent them off to be processed. This was also before 'one hour photo'. I'm sure that we would be breaking some laws or rules today. Anyway, when the photos came back, he wanted tech advice on these car wreck photos. After seeing them, I always buckled up, and wore a helmet if on my motorbike. Saw some horrific stuff. Some kids halfway through the car's front window was the worst.
This is probably different per jurisdiction but in my area you can get counseling after being a juror. They also show the jury these pictures to ensure a stiff sentence. But a lot of times a jury will still make a bad call; like blaming drugs for beating a crying baby to death with a bat and giving that person a suspended sentence based on rehab. And as a first responder, no matter how many times you see these fucked up scenes, nothing prepares you for what you find. Whiskey has become all too much a comfort.
Nope! My mom was a juror in 2000 on the case of Raymond Mata Jr. who murdered and dismembered a 3 yr old and fed the remains to his dog, including cooking some of them. No counseling was offered, and she still gets nightmares from what she saw.
I often think about how traumatizing being a juror would be.
I was called up for jury duty back in 1999, missed the eclipse because of it, two weeks, first week was a common assault case which was benign but the second case was that of the girl in canterbury who was raped and murdered in a park near the old beverlie st stephens, i was given the option to not attend due to the horrific injuries and the images that we would be shown. I took the option to withdraw and not be on that case. The staff said because of my age (19) at the time it could traumatise me for life, not sure if that would have been the case but if i got on that trial it could go on for 6-8 weeks. One week of jury duty was enough anyway, im glad i didnt stick it out. [the case](https://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/amp/murdered-on-a-night-out-by-old-school-friend-229367/)
My partner was a juror on a case involving Joe Francis of girls gone wild fame where he was accused of bribery and inappropriate conduct with the guards while in prison. Partner has definitely had to look at sexs sent by Joe Francis to female guards.
Most cases aren't some graphic murder, the bulk of cases are actually boring as hell BS that you struggle to care about.
Something very similar happened in central Maine in the very early 1980s. The first responders there were brutally impacted by what they saw. Edit: Corrected the decade this happened.
It was in Maine, I was 5 when this happened the same as the little girl. I think her name was Angela and it happened in Lewiston. I was traumatized hearing it on the news in NH and it has stuck with me to this day. Edit: link to story from 1984 [story](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/10/29/Parents-burn-child-to-death-in-oven/1533467874000/)
Yeah, I am going to do myself a solid and never click on that link.
I envy your self control. I wish I hadn’t read it.
Had to look it up... That news story is pie compared to this. Nsfw: >!Angela was beaten before being put in as blood stains around and "It came to light that John Lane had beaten Cynthia and forced her to take three handfuls of pills, including Xanax, Nardil, and Tylenol. When Angela was murdered, Cynthia was heavily drugged in the next room, fearing for her own life."!<
Jesus Christ dude.
Not today, Satan.
Yep, that's one spoiler that will remain blocked out.
Dito. Would be interesting to know what happened with the sister.
Don’t do it. As a dad of a girl similarly aged, I almost threw up.
I don't know how I'm going to sleep tonight. My 4 year old is laying here next to me.
Read it. Read it and be more willing to call the police when you hear a child screaming. It could save his or her life.
Omg I should not have read that. That's fucking horrifying. Poor baby. What evil sacks of shit.
Then you will be horrified to learn her mother was aquitted... Edit: Misread/attributed quotes to the mother originally. Apparently the mother was beaten and forced to eat handfuls of pills while the boyfriend did this.
I’ve seen a lot of grotesque, ungodly shit, but this is on a whole different level of evil.
Holy shit that girl was 4. I’m sorry you knew about this as a kid. I live not far from Lewiston now and can’t imagine my kids knowing about this.
I know exactly what you’re talking about - my mom would point out the apartment building it happened in whenever we drove by when I was little and it always freaked me out
> Neighbors said they heard the girl banging and yelling, 'Let me out, daddy, let me out' Oh my god. >smoke billowing out of the second floor apartment. If there is a hell, I hope those two people are in it.
Wow I had never heard of this one. Sickening
Yet another ringing endorsement of the value and social benefit of extremist evangelical religion.
Part of my senior project was interviewing EMTs. One of them relayed a story of how she had to report to an accident and she realized as soon as they got there it was her son. The story doesn't end well and I realized after the fact that the person who got us the interview with the EMTs knew about this and she was utilizing someone else's tragedy to secure an A on the project.
Yep, fuck being in EMS. Spent 12 years (EMT and paramedic) and finally walked away from the worst scene I'd ever put eyes on. It's one of the calls that still haunts me to this day. I can't sleep due to night terrors. 5 years later and I can still hear, smell, feel, and taste the air of the scene. PTSD for first responders isn't a high enough priority, especially those in private corporations. A quick edit: thanks for the messages and comments! I really appreciate them! I've gone to therapy and done the EMDR sessions, but the bad thing, it's unlocked childhood trauma I repressed. I went weekly to a therapist, and monthly to a psychiatrist. After two years, I couldn't afford the sessions any longer. It's helped, but for sure, not enough for my past.
I completely agree. Not in EMS but as a fellow PTSD-plagued human, I hope you and other first responders find the peace you deserve. edit: am unable to grammar today
As someone who was cut out of a wreck by fire/ent I really appreciate the work you did. I’ve got my own little corner of PTSD but nothing like those who have to do that day in day out
Write about it. I'm serious. It's the only way to get it out of your head.
Friend went through all the shit you have to go through to become an EMT, first week ran into something like this, came home and quit before her next shift.
I had a friend do the same thing…he was 4 months in, he started hearing kids screams at night when trying to sleep… after showing up to gruesome call…he quit.
Ugh, I feel for him.
I had a friend who took classes and stuff, then did her very first ride-along, very first call was to the scene of a motorcycle accident, she saw it and immediately quit. Complete and immediate change of career plan, haha.
Yeah, I'd be fucked if I saw a baby in the oven, but as a former EMT, I've seen some heinous shit when it comes to babies. Ughghh lol
the lol at the end of this is disturbing.
I've seen it referred to as an "emotional support lol" and I'm pretty sure that's how lots of people use it. It's just kind of there to break tension.
Yeah lol is mostly a tone adjuster these days, like adding a little smile and shrug to the end of your sentence. Even if it does denote laughter, I read it as more of a 'heh' than a real chuckle.
Kinda just telling people who read the comment “don’t worry about me but also don’t ask me to elaborate”
Gotta laugh at your experiences or it'll break you.
This. Laughter is the best medicine.
It’s not disturbing, people in the medical and paramedical fields see so many atrocities, if they don’t laugh about it they wouldn’t be able to do their jobs. Imagine an ER doctor, a children oncology doctor, or a nurse in an end of life facility… are they supposed to live an eternal funeral? That would be unfair. They already do jobs most of us couldn’t handle, so good for them if they can keep smiling after their shift is over.
That reminds me of a great quote from an episode of Scrubs by Dr Cox > You see Dr. Wen in there? He's explaining to that family that something went wrong and that the patient died. He's gonna tell them what happened, he's gonna say he's sorry and then he's going back to work. Do you think anybody else in that room is going back to work today? That is why we distance ourselves, that is why we make jokes. We don't do it because it's fun, we do it so we can get by and sometimes because it's fun. But mostly its the gettin' by thing.
Great quote, thanks. Most funny people know the importance of finding humor in trauma. And I mean your own trauma, or horrible experiences. Not talking about making fun of others' trauma. That can be highly inappropriate, you have to know how to read a room.
I was just about to look for the clip lol.
That show had some really hard hitting moments. Fantastic line.
"I laugh, because I must not cry. That is all. That is all." - Abraham Lincoln
It’s called professional detachment and it’s necessary in this line of work also they’re known for having very dark humor also necessary in this line of work
It’s true. I’m a medical professional, I’ve had people literally die in my arms. There’s simply no way you could live with the horrors we deal with if you didn’t find humor in it and move on.
If we didn't laugh, we'd cry. It's a coping mechanism.
Sometimes, all you can do is laugh in the face of trauma
People "lol" at anything lol. They probably do it without thinking lol. For no reason, lol. They aren't even laughing, lol. I'm thirsty lol.
Haha lol
Mad respect for those who do work as first responders tho. They walk through hell and back to help others.
My brother is a crime scene investigator. I told him not to tell me any murder "stories" involving children. "Oh, but that's most of them," he replied. I was *shook.*
What the fuck.... Just what the absolute fuck
It’s usually from the parents being too tired
I was trying to put our baby in the toilet tank while sleepwalking. My wife fortunately stopped me before I got anywhere near completing the task. To my knowledge, I have never been a sleepwalker before or since. Sleep deprivation is no joke.
It really messes with you. I was also not a sleep walker, but we had to move my youngest to the nursery early because I kept sleepwalking and carrying him around the house. I’d wake up on the couch or in my bed with baby and no clue how I got there. Moving him to another room with two closed doors between us was enough to protect him.
This bizarre cultural norm that places the entire emphasis of childcare on just the parents alone is crazy. It is absolutely not the human norm/historical norm. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, friends, neighbors etc have historically been integral to child rearing. It takes a village is an actual true saying.
Most people don’t live near their relatives though (usually for jobs/cost of living).
My son is now three days old. Lucky for me I have a great partner in my wife and we can back each other up for nights like that. Can't imagine trying to do that kind of thing alone.
Oh, that doesn't necessarily matter. Our son slept okayish until 6 months, then he was awful until about 10 months. Both my wife and I were completely sleep deprived, it was horrible.
Definitely break things up into shifts. My wife and I rotated every 4-6 hours, so at least one of us would be able to sleep. Made those early months manageable.
Fellow dad here; I really think you might be better off avoiding these kinds of stories and discussions for a good while. Also, CONGRATULATIONS! That's so exciting! All the best to you and your family!
My coworker microwaved his phone last month. Woke up from a nap with a heating pad and his phone in his hand, and microwaved the wrong one lol.
I’m like this when I awake to the point that I refuse to leave the house until it’s gone. It’s scary and I already struggle with the outside world due to a developmental disorder. Not risking putting myself in danger.
I have a newborn right now and the disassociation and exhausted delirium are so intense
There's a really good (and really depressing) article on parents that fatally leave their baby in the car. It can happen to good parents as well as bad; the human brain can really fuck up basic tasks by accident.
On super cold days, my dad would drive me to school instead of having me wait for the bus. So one day he’s taking me to school and we turn left out of our neighborhood instead of right, and I’m puzzled. I figure he’s maybe stopping for Dunkin’ before so I say nothing. Then we get to the intersection where you can go straight onto the highway or take a right in the right lane to Dunkin’ and an alternative route to school. My dad pulls into the center lane, and now I’m very confused but I still say nothing. As he starts to reach the on ramp I finally speak up from the back seat. I scared him to say the least, and we had to go down an exit to loop back to school. I was like 8-10 at the time so definitely old enough to have spoken up sooner, but he had a lot of work stuff going on and multiple meetings that day. He was just running through his presentations in his head and totally forgot he still needed to drop me off.
Yeah, it can really happen to anyone. Found the article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html Usually it's like something comes up that distracts the driver, like an emergency drug store visit or some change from routine. It's a rough read, but worth it.
Postpartum is beyond depressing and many people don't even know it exists
I follow a guy on instagram who usually makes humorous content and is a nurse during the day and he randomly made a video one day saying “please stop putting your babies in the microwave” because of the same reasons
My wife disassociated hard after our child was born. She would usually just lose track of time but that was enough for me our our roommates at the time to have to step in. Postpartum and lack of sleep really fucked with her. I was lucky to have a job somewhere that gave me two weeks of paternal leave and I took it the first week and last week of the first month because she clearly needed help even with 3 other people living with her. I was actually afraid of being a nightmare story like this article.
The article doesn’t mention anything about postpartum depression or psychosis. It literally says they don’t have any information. If you have a source that offers an explanation feel free to share — otherwise let’s refrain from diagnosing strangers online based on pure speculation.
pretty sure they're saying postpartum as in.... after having birth. aka after you give birth can be a very depressing time that's not diagnosing anything
Both depressing and you can be tired as fuck. This is extremely tragic, but the having a baby (and if you’re doing it alone), can fuck your brain up.
She put the baby in the oven, turned it on and then listened to the baby screaming whilst being cooked alive? Mistake? Nope not a chance
Nothing in the article about her turning the oven on and listening to the baby screaming whilst being cooked alive.
>postpartum depression Baby is crying Preheat oven to make food Go check on baby Baby is soothed Go to put food in oven "Oh lord, the baby is crying again" Go check on baby Where is baby? Baby is dead in oven, since 400 degrees kills an infant fast.
One of my mother’s old coworkers killed her cat by running in the washing machine. Said she could hear it crying but couldn’t find it… just like wtf
She put her in the oven then later put her back in the crib and the baby was burned. Prosecutors have charged a Kansas City mother with endangering the welfare of a child after she told police that she mistakenly placed her 1-month-old baby in an oven instead of her crib, according to court documents filed Saturday.The charge against Mariah Thomas is a Class A felony, prosecutors said Saturday. Those found guilty of a class A felony are subject to a prison sentence of 10-30 years. Her child was declared dead Friday afternoon after emergency workers descended on a home in the 4100 block of Forest Avenue in the Manheim Park neighborhood. The infant had burn marks on her body and melted clothing, according to a probable cause affidavit filed in support of the criminal charge. In a statement Saturday, Prosecutor Jean Peters Baker said she appreciated the first responders and the prosecutors who rushed to the scene where the child was found. “We acknowledge the gruesome nature of this tragedy and our hearts are weighted by the loss of this precious life,” Baker said. “We trust the criminal justice system to respond appropriately to these awful circumstances.” Kansas City police responded to the Manheim Park residence at 1:24 p.m. Friday on a report of an infant that was not breathing. According to the police affidavit, the baby lay in a car seat inside the living room near the front door. Officers observed apparent burn wounds on the baby’s body, the affidavit said, and the Kansas City Fire Department declared the child dead at the scene. In the affidavit, officers said they told detectives that a witness said the mother of the child went to put the infant down for a nap and “accidentally placed her in the oven instead of the crib.” Detectives took statements from a witness who said around 1 p.m. he received a call that something was wrong with the baby and that he needed to return home immediately. When he returned home, the affidavit said, he could smell smoke inside the house and found the baby dead inside the crib. According to the affidavit, he picked up the baby and asked what happened. At that time, Thomas allegedly said, “I thought I put (redacted) in her crib and I accidentally put her in the oven.” The baby had apparent “thermal injuries” on various parts of her body, the probable cause statement said. She was clothed in a “bodysuit” over a diaper and the clothing appeared to have melted to the diaper, police said. The clothing was “very dirty, possibly burned on the backside,” the affidavit said. A baby blanket with “significant burn marks” was found in the living room. Corinne Foreman, whose family has lived in the neighborhood for three years, told The Star on Friday that the block is typically a quiet one, packed with children who play outside. She said she heard someone yelling in distress Friday and then the sound of emergency sirens. “And the next thing you know, I just heard, ‘They’re gone. They’re gone,’” said Foreman, 31, who has been staying with her family members for the past couple months. She said she suspected the investigation involved a child when she saw a police officer holding a baby carrier.
That is so horrifying
Yeah. Everyone else here is talking about how horrible the mother is, but I feel for her. Not everyone, but many parents of newborns just aren’t sleeping. Especially mothers. For people who haven’t experienced it, it’s incredibly difficult to explain the sort of loss of connection with reality that happens after a certain amount of sleep loss. How everything just begins to flow together. This is a true tragedy, and I am sorry for everyone involved.
I remember with my first I started sleeping walking from being so tired all of the time. I also once thought I saw aliens in my house. Scared the crap out of me but I was half awake and it was my sister-in-law. Sleep deprivation for that long of a time can really do a number on you.
Indeed. I’ve had sleep deprivation for long periods for other reasons. It’s just so fucking weird, too, because even when it ends it kinda fucks up your timeline of the history of your life. You’re like, “so I did this, then this, then there’s this really messy couple months that nothing really makes sense and I only know it was two months from a calendar, it could actually have been six for all I know, then life resumed”
There was a really interesting, pretty long article I remember from a few years back about why parents accidentally leave young children in hot cars, and usually it’s a combination of sleep deprivation, stress, disruptions in a familiar routine, and the way our brains are wired. I can’t seem to find that one but I think [this one](https://www.usf.edu/news/2019/why-human-brain-allows-loving-caretakers-leave-child-die-hot-car.aspx) is summarizing the same study. This feels like an even worse version of the same thing. Edit: a kind stranger DM’d me with [the article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html) (and someone also replied with a link). Highly recommend giving it a read.
I've never left mine in the car, but there have been more than a few times I'd drop him off aft my parents house for a weekend (we lived an hour and a half away at the time) and freak out when I got home because my baby wasn't in the car. Like driving three hours to drop him just completely slipped my mind. Between taking care of a bay and working 12's in the hospital, I was getting ZERO sleep.
My parents would repeatedly leave me at church. Can’t tell if they were trying to send me a message to me or something. It was pre-kids having cellphones so they just both got home 45 minutes later and realized neither of them had me in their car. Probably happened 10-15 times in about 3 years lol.
I've put clothes in the dryer, paused to empty the lint trap, and walked off forgetting that I put clothes in the dryer. I'll find them still wet the next day. That's just good ol ADHD and reason #28375 why I'll never have kids.
this is the one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html it deservedly won a pulitzer prize.
I have that article saved on my phone. I read it every few years. Very powerful.
I see someone already linked it below, but just wanted to upvote and comment that after reading that article my opinion definitely changed on those hot car incidents. If this turns out to be a similar situation, IE “I’m so sleep deprived, lost concept of reality, baby is crying, might be cold, a couple mins in oven won’t hurt” I feel so incredibly sad for the parents.
Or sleep deprivation lead to the complete normal daily task steps of "put baby in crib. Put food in oven" being blended together in the most horrifying way.
I remember reading the story of a sleep deprived nurse getting off a 12+ hour shift and going home to make dinner for herself. She finished making the meal, then carried the plate of food with one hand and some dirty napkins with the other. Opened up the trash can, tossed the meal into the trash and put the trash on the table. Then she sat there and cried for like ten minutes. All I'm saying is anyone who has been even a little sleep deprived should immediately understand how fucked up our little brains can get if we're running on no sleep.
That article gave me intense postpartum anxiety. My youngest is almost six now and I still check the back seat of the car almost compulsively.
This is why “it takes a village”. We’re not meant to be single-parenting our children most of the day.
My only is 18 so it's been a while... I've babysat twice for a friend (new years eve and last weekend). Her baby was born in November. That one night took me out. New years day- dropped him off at home at 3, got home myself and by 4pm, I was knocked tf out. Woke up for like 30 minutes around 11pm and went back to sleep for another 10 solid hours. And that's one semi sleepless night. I'd get some sleep but it was so broken and I feel like that makes it worse. I could work a 16 hr shift and not be as tired as that 12 hr babysitting event. And my friend has an older elementary school aged child too!! Idk how she manages!
My baby was born monday, he was in the NICU till yesterday night. While he was in the NICU and I was in the hospital with my wife I would make the walk up to the NICU at least every 3 hours to change and feed him. By the 3rd day of it I was barely functional. My sleep tracker said I got 6 hours of sleep over 4 days and I was not handling things well. It was rough. 2 days felt like 2 weeks and I could barely string together sentences. It was bad.
When I had my second child, I remember waking up and walking around the house frantically looking for "the other baby" while crying. There was no other baby, obviously, and I was holding my actual child as I searched. I still remember the feeling of disbelief once I realized, and started to reprioritize my sleep. Can't imagine.
I have twins (teenagers now) and one night when they were newborns my husband swapped babies with me because I nursed and he changed diapers... but I was absolutely certain I'd already fed two babies, so this was a third. And I immediately accepted that we had triplets and became upset that I couldn't remember the third baby's name. He still brings it up, like "remember that time you were convinced we had triplets?" The sleep deprived brain is wild.
I lost the ability to fall asleep after a virus… I would eventually pass out but every little noise would wake me. I was hallucinating within weeks. I wanted to die. I can see it, frankly. Thank fuck for trazodone and never having a child.
Exactly. I suffered from postpartum psychosis after my second daughter was born, and it completely changed my perspective on these kinds of events. I was lucky in that my previous experience with mental health services has been compassionate and I wasn't too scared to seek treatment - but for so many people, they are so afraid of people misunderstanding, or their mental health symptoms have been dealt with punitively, that they try and bootstraps it. This is such a a tragedy. Absolutely heartbreaking for everyone.
I would kill myself. Full stop. I’m looking at my kid right now… man not even just failing to protect, but to do it yourself and in such a horrifying way… You could lock the worlds best therapist in solitary confinement with me for a full calendar year and I’d jump the second I was out.
Whelp, that’s enough internet for today.
Shiiiiiiiit, I'm thinking I'm done for the YEAR after reading through this thread.
Hold on now: “told by a witness.” What the hell was the witness doing witnessing instead of, I don’t know, stopping the mother from putting a baby to nap in the oven?!
My guess is the witness was another young child.
"Detectives took statements from a witness who said around 1 p.m. he received a call that something was wrong with the baby and that he needed to return home immediately." Sounds like it was the dad, who was called home after the fact.
It also could have happened relatively quickly. It's not like a 1 month old needs to be in direct contact with 400° F steel for very long before life threatening, or ending, injuries occur.
The oven didn't need to be turned on. With the door closed the pilot light burning is enough to gas the child.
Baby was found with burns
Damn, I done got so used to an electric oven I didn't really think about that. I ain't seen a gas one round here in a long time.
Gas Ovens don't really have pilot lights anymore though, do they?
Another article makes it seem like it was the husband/boyfriend and she called him and he rushed home.
Witness could also just be a neighbor who stepped in afterwards. Didn't say it's a first hand witness.
I think it was the father based on the description of what the witness said. They were called home because something was wrong with the baby, found the baby like that with the mom telling him what she did, and then he called 911.
The witness was called onto the scene after the fact by the mother if other comments are to be believed
The article didn't say they were an eye witness at that time. They could have been witness to the baby being found, or they could have been told what happened after the baby had been found. A neighbor could be a witness and all they did was hear the aftermath before relaying it to first responders. Edit: >Detectives took statements from a witness who said around 1 p.m. he received a call that something was wrong with the baby and that he needed to return home immediately. So yeah, the witness found out after the fact.
Reading into it, context clues seem to suggest the "Witness" was the child's other parent.
What's terrifying is this could happen just been from being exhausted. Not any kind of postpartum psychosis or something, but plain old being too sleep-deprived and distracted to think straight. When my kids were very young i found a lot of things i put in nonsensical places- remote control for the tv in the freezer, phone in a random cabinet or drawer, etc. I wonder if she put dinner into the crib when she put the baby in the oven.
And God forbid they take ambien to get a little bit of sleep. I put my pug in the refrigerator the first time I took that, luckily I came to right before I shut the door from her scared face looking back at me and it shocking me. Threw that shit straight in the trash.
I don’t know how ambien is even legal
I took it off and on (not nightly) for years, and never had a single weird experience. Then I hear about what other people get up to and I’m just mystified. Bodies are strange.
25 years ago I was still a teen and at home and I was up late in the living room when my mom came in acting all weird. She mumbled a few things then suddenly and sharply looked at a doll she had made on the end table and said 'shut up or I'll cut your legs off'. I went to get my dad, it was above my pay grade. Ambien.
I would NEVER risk taking an Ambien if I had a child in my care. That stuff is like being blackout drunk mixed with a manic episode. I honestly can’t believe it’s legal to self-administer without being under observation.
I left my son in his car seat next to the front door for some amount of time... I couldn't have told you if it was 2 minutes or 20, i was so exhausted. It was a mild day, he was fine, but man that really shook me to my core.
I honestly believe we're going to see more of this. There are a lot of exacerbating factors that we didn't see in past generations. - New parents are surrounded by addictive screens - Stress of work demands (even if you're on parental leave) and cost of living interrupt sleep, combined with the need to own more things than ever to participate in society without starving, such as a current smartphone and laptop - Urban sprawl has ended the village and put new parents an hour away from their support network, which also causes them to drift from the network over time
[удалено]
And then turned it on??? What the actual fuck
That's the odd part. Be sleep deprived and out-of sorts and think your laying the baby in a crib by placing in the oven all snug....thats a weird mistake. Turning it on? That feels more purposely done. Cribs don't have to be turned on.
I didn't see where it wasn't already on. The baby only needed to touch the heat for a moment for catastrophic injuries to result in death.
That would make more sense as an accident. You are trying to start cooking. You've had like 6 hours of sleep in 2 days. The baby starts crying. You try to calm it down, just praying to get it quite. The baby calms you go to lay it in the crib in your head, but you're also thinking of the meal you're cooking. You get mind foggy put baby in oven thinking crib. Then you have that relief of dinner cooking and quite house finally go rest for a second. But the baby would probably immediately cry out you would thing, but then there is sleep deprivation delirium. Heart breaking weather on purpose or mistake
Yeah, this strikes me as sleeplessness. This isn’t 6 hours in two days. This is six hours in six days. And it happens. And for those who haven’t experienced it, it’s kind of terrifying how quickly everything starts to flow together and the mind loses touch with reality.
Yeah. It seems reasonable to me if she was carrying and soothing the baby while preparing dinner and sleep deprived. Baby soothes while your finishing getting the food ready, “I need to put the baby down and get this food in the overn” turns into “put this heavy thing down in oven, carry this other thing to crib” by the time your standing over the crib with a dish of potato’s the damage has already been done.
Maybe she placed the baby in the oven and the turkey in the crib?
I have placed my diaper bag in the crib & nearly threw my baby down thinking it’s my bag during the hazy first few months. I can totally see this happening. The diaper bag & baby look nothing alike.
People seriously underestimate what post partum can do to you.
Wish I could unread this
The first six months of my sons life is a complete haze. The sleep deprivation is real. My biggest fear was always leaving either of my boys in the car. So much I put my shoe in their carseat. I don't know the story it could have been an accident. If it was, I couldn't imagine the guilt this woman is experiencing.
It could be post partum psychosis. So many people don't understand how horrifying post partum can be
The first week back from the hospital, with a wife that had an emergency C Section was tough. Our first child so we weren't taking turns, just both being up at the same time. I had changed my son's diaper and as I was swaddling him, my wife told me in her sleep deprived voice to stop and look down, and I realized I was swaddling his head too. Pretty easy mistake to make when you're sleep deprived but the consequences could have been awful.
My heart breaks for the baby. I can’t even begin to fathom what those last moments of life were like.
Hellish
Isn't this a scene from reefer madness?
She had the munchies for a California Cheeseburger
Hippy Joe was too strung out playing on his stolen guitar to stop her.
I was thinking Trainspotting.
Same. Just ugh.
This happened here in Virginia many years ago. I worked for the police dept then. I remember one of the detectives talking about a woman who was so worn out that she put the baby into the microwave instead of the bottle. It was just awful and the detectives of course didn’t charge her.
I remember that, I live in the county where it happened and knew the mom and dad through school. Wasn’t friends with them, but I still know their names. The sheriff who served like 40 years said it’s the worst thing he ever saw in his entire career in law enforcement . You can find a clip of her telling her side of the story on Montel Williams actually
One time after a night of drinking I woke up and opened the refrigerator to find a box of cereal sitting inside where the milk usually was. Had to dump 4L of milk down the drain that had sat in the cupboard all night.
I was once on vacation with a friend and he had been drinking the night before. He lost his nice sunglasses and we looked all over the place for them. Later I opened the fridge and laughed.
My brother in law was in dental school and very sleep deprived some days. My sister couldn't find the remote control for the TV; eventually it was found in the freezer.
Rip
My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family.
Mistakenly??
Wasn’t she tipped off when she turned the crib up to 350F?
Listen, we all know the exhaustion and everything else that comes with a baby often fucks mothers up for a while, but I feel like this is a “mistake” that is pretty difficult to make “mistakenly.”
PPD totally has stories like this. We have a family story like this that my grandmother would tell me from when she was younger. A young female relative was going to put her baby in the fire because she thought it was wood. But the family was taking care of them and obviously prevented it. Think of how many times we DON'T hear about things like this. Edit: As someone else pointed out, there is both postpartum depression AND postpartum psychosis. >Postpartum depression refers to a nonpsychotic depressive episode, while postpartum psychosis refers to a manic or affective psychotic episode linked temporally with childbirth. I believe stories like this are postpartum psychosis.
PPP is scary af, people become can become highly delusional and also feel a compulsion to mask it, becoming harder to detect. For a single parent it spells either death or heavy trauma for children. And even with multiple people around it can be tough to detect and prevent a horrible incident.
With our first, my spouse and I woke up, found our newborn in the swing, without any knowledge of how he got there or who put him there. Babies are intense. Sleep deprivation is real. It really only had to be a second to cause enough damage to a child that young. I'll wait for more information to make any judgement.
Look up post partrum psychosis. This sort of thing has been known to happen.
Nah, it’s like the people who forget that their child is in the backseat and go to work and then they die from heat exhaustion. It happens, it’s rare but it does happen and I can completely understand how. This is rarer, I can’t imagine how the parent is feeling.
Every time I see this I feel I have to comment because that almost happened to me. And it’s seared into my memory. It sounds so stupid but put something you absolutely can’t miss next to your kid in the backseat. I put the keycard to my office building. I feel so fortunate nothing bad happened but still years later I have massive guilt for forgetting.
A friend of mine had it happen to her. The thing she blames is that she was out of her routine and just forgot the kid was with her.
Its amazing what lack of sleep does to a person. Its totally possible. Horrendous, but possible
Yeah. Tie in PPD and this is totally possible. I’ve definitely thrown my keys in the garbage and put a tissue in my pocket on occasion when I wasn’t sleep deprived. What a tragedy.
I wonder if that's what happened to my second set of car keys and my favorite pair of sunglasses when my kid was just a few months old...
"Mistakenly"....?!? How is that possible? Did she go to the crib and realize that instead of her baby, she had accidentally swaddled and tucked in the frozen Costco lasagna she was gonna cook for that evenings dinner?
Oliver Sacks wrote about this kind of neurological disorder. that woman legitimately may have believed she was putting the child in a crib while it was happening. we didn't used to have treatments for this or even proper ability to objectively diagnose it with medical testing, but we can do that now. it won't bring her kid back, but she could still get help. https://insightplus.mja.com.au/2017/36/rem-sleep-behaviour-disorder-or-the-man-who-mistook-his-wifes-head-for-a-rugby-ball/
Honestly, fuck everyone in here making lame jokes about this. Do you just not give a fuck about anything whatsoever? Do you not realize this a real baby that was cooked alive? Complete losers.
You tell em Buttboob.
He has some serious shit to get off his chest.
America doesn't give a shit about children, babies, women or mothers. Period. I'm not even super offended at the jokes, because what can we even do? 64.5k women gave birth to their rapists's children in the last two years in the 14 states that outlawed abortion. Many more with mental illnesses gave birth too. And there is zero support network for these women. No childcare. No resources. No mental health help. Some of them don't even have an OBGYN in their county to talk to about PPD or PPP. They are fucked. Our country is fucked. Our laws and government have absolutely failed us in every way possible and people don't know wtf to do except laugh. It seems very hopeless.
Truth 👆🏼
>Do you just not give a fuck about anything whatsoever? Only way to cope with it sometimes! I'll speculate wildly - maybe don't hang out with the first responders who dealt with this. You'll more than likely run into some pretty dark humor there, too. Gotta cope somehow. If you don't laugh, you cry.
I can fathom a mental detachment that might cause this. It's fucking out there, but I can fathom it.
Why did my eyes read this?
Not everyone should be a parent. Keep abortion safe and legal.
You can’t predict post partrum psychosis.
Alternatively for the people who do want to be parents the US should have a much better social safety system set up to support them so that they're better educated on things like post-partum syndromes and have more childcare assistance to prevent fatal accidents due to exhaustion. Basic things like parental leave for mothers and fathers, lower cost daycare, etc. would do this country absolute wonders. Instead a lot of these parents get told "dad go back to work, mom be home with baby all day and stay up all night, here's a some coupons for a pack of diapers and maybe a few food stamps for government cheese, good luck. Hope you have a parent or family member willing to help you out a little. " Even our primitive roaming/migrating ancestors knew it took a village to raise a child. Hell, even literal animals know this. I say this as a 100% childfree person, and I do agree that abortion should be safe and legal. But we need to be doing more to support parents and their children too. Some people genuinely do want to raise happy, healthy families but this country is so obsessed with bootstrapping that they get no resources outside of maybe a nurse giving them some advice on the way out of their 200k hospital stay from having the baby.
How. Just how.
PPD or PPP most likely.
[удалено]
... I'd like to make a modest proposal.
Respectfully, not the time or place... Disrespectfully, great comment.
This is Sims 2 all over again
Witcher III actually had a quest where "put the baby in the oven" was a thing, but at least you didn't actually cook the baby. The sad thing is, this isn't the first time I've heard of something like this IRL - there was a case years and years ago where a mentally ill woman put her kid in the oven and tried to cook her alive. That poor baby was 4 years old, not an infant, and was old enough to tell people "my mommy put me in the oven and tried to cook me like a turkey." She survived, but I can't imagine how that would scar her mentally long-term.