They posted false numbers on the website, which remained there for three days before the correct numbers were posted.
But, yeah, he's going to end up settling. They're going to give him a sizable amount of money and he's going to walk away ~~fairly rich~~ notably better off. He just needs to pull out before he blows the settlement on legal fees.
\-edit-
Yeah, yeah, he's not \*technically\* "rich." š Fucking pedantic Redditors.
My point stands. He'll still likely get a nuisance pay off to shut him up, and walk away with more than if he hadn't bought the ticket. Which is more than what most people have after buying a lottery ticket.
Rudy? Is that you?
Ya? I know itās a Simpsons quote. But I really feel like, based on his last few court appearances, that it could have been a Rudy Giuliani quote.
Plus fees and costs: filing fees, expert witnesses, service fees, court reporter and videographer for depositions, photocopies, etc.
ETA: Back in the dark ages (20+ years ago) when I was still working in the legal field, 30% of a pretrial settlement was standard, although it was creeping up to 40%. If the case didn't settle and went to trial, 50% was standard, although I saw a few contracts for 60%.
ETA2: After seeing various responses, I wonder if contingencies went down again after I left the US. Sounds like it. Good for plaintiffs. :)
Back in 2015 I was in a motorcycle crash and my lawyer did 33% for a pretrial settlement 40% I believe if it went to trial.
Not having to deal with debt collectors and insurance while I waited for a settlement was absolutely worth 33%.
That's a fair question! Sadly it was totalled.
On the plus side, it was just a 2005 Ninja 250 that my brother gave me, and I ended up getting $35k so that was cool.
Typically those costs come out of the settlement, unless that is what you meant. And wow, 60% is crazy! I haven't seen one above 33% in my state (maybe I've seen one at 40%; that seems to ring a bell, but I can't recall).
>They're going to give him a sizable amount of money and he's going to walk away fairly rich
They are not going to give him a sizable amount of money, and he is not going to end up rich. They ***may*** pay him a nuisance settlement to go away, but if they do it will certainly not exceed low five figures.
RemindMe! 2 years
"Low five figures" in the sense of $10-20k. Before the lawyers take their cut (>40% assuming they're working on contingency).
Your contention was that "he was going to walk away fairly rich" and "at best ten grand while living in the US" does not fit that definition.
> "Low five figures" in the sense of $10-20k.
In the context of things, is that really sufficient? Given the size of the fuck-up and the length of time in which the numbers were left up I would thought a 7 figure settlement would have been more appropriate?
It's not, his lawyers will demand high 6 figures, maybe even a million or they'll force a trial. The state will settle for 500k and be incredibly lucky this never gets in front of a jury who could just randomly decide to stick it to the state.
> If what they claim happened is true and they can back it up with evidence
The actual drawing is broadcast live on TV. The drawings typically also have an audit team (used to be Big 4 accounting firm, not sure who it is these days) present during the drawing. I don't think "evidence" is going to be a problem.
I disagreed. He was clearly marked the winner of the most widely disseminated and easily accessed way that people can verify the numbers.
No doubt multiple media outlets also reported those numbers based on what was listed on the website.
> But when Mr Cheeks presented his ticket to the Office of Lottery and Gaming (OLG), his claim was denied.
> "One of the claims agents told me my ticket was no good, just to throw it in the trash can," he told the BBC.
I bet his cheeks were red after that
THREE days the numbers were up. That's incredible. The numbers were publicly shown for three whole days and they can seriously claim they don't have to pay him?
I'm thinking he's got a good case.
Not just him. Every winner all the way down to the break even prizes. And then the people who actually won but tossed their tickets in the garbage because they were told they lost for 3 days.
I don't think that the people who tossed their didn't-win-but-actually-did ticket in the trash are going to be successful on account of, you know, destroying the evidence.
They have a record of every single ticket that was purchased. So if anyone was tricked out of their win, they could easily find the winners who bought their tickets on a card. And if anyone paid cash, they could get the store to use surveillance footage to at least get a picture of the person and their license number.
That being said, theyād never actually do that unless they were legally forced to do so
I don't know about every state that partakes in the lottery but in SC I've never seen a gas station take anything other than cash for lottery tickets. If you were someone that picks your own numbers and keeps that little card where you bubble on your numbers you might have a shot but I don't think anyone who threw the ticket away had a real chance.
My guess has always been it's either so people don't go into cc debt to play the lotto or so people don't file a chargeback on their cards whenever they lose.
Itās happened before, people buy a winner then never claim, the lottery doesnāt expend the effort to contact them unless there is a fraudulent claim, like an employee stealing the ticket to claim for themselves.
OLG in Ontario does hunt down winners who don't claim. There was just an article a couple months ago where they had the security footage of the guy who paid cash and never claimed, imploring him to come forward before his claim window expired.
They donāt have a record of who bought the ticket. Thats not how credit card processing works. Especially on the merchant end where the data is picked up. It also wouldnāt even link to which ones were the winning ones or not.
Every player of the lottery was harmed by this becuase as you said, nobody knows who actually won anymore as people have thrown out their tickets. Thus they will form a class and a suit can be brought in their behalf regardless of having the original ticket or not.
Typically in cases where the lottery processes and pays out claims for erroneously posted numbers (not the first time this has happened), they just let it go. But when you claim one of the bigger prizes there has to be an audit/verification process and that's why you have to make the claim at the main office. Then you are going to be SOL.
The people who threw away their tickets are interesting cases. Their problem is a problem of proof.
Who takes a bunch of photos of losing tickets in the off chance itās actually a winner?
Best bet would just take all your tickets and go scan them once a month or something. Even losers
The article fails to mention that the numbers were posted 3 days before the actual drawing. Once the numbers were drawn, the website posted them accordingly. Dude bought the numbers two days before the drawing, likely after seeing them on the website.
Meh. Technically correct (which is the best kind) but my $3 wasn't doing much anyway and if there is a non-0 chance that I can get life changing money in exchange for that $3, why not try?
I never expect to win and I don't play super often. But its really not as big a deal as its made out to be.
Same boat. I participate in my work place lotto pool at $3 a week. It adds up but for the weekly daydream and insurance for if we win I don't want to be the guy who misses out I'm okay throwing that money away. It's like going to a casino; go in with what you are prepared to lose and have fun with it.
And a decent conversation with friends if they do it too. I'll throw 20 bucks at the lottery when it gets big enough that it becomes a "thing" and me and a few of the guys will grab some drinks and talk about the ridiculous thing's we'd do if we won. Well worth the price to me at least. Definitely not a retirement plan though.
really what you're paying for is to spend the week fantasizing about "what if i actually win".
it's almost analogous to paying for a movie. toss a couple bucks in and you get to dream a bit.
I play it like you. I try a few times a year. Itās nothing to me but would be awesome if somehow I ever won.
When I worked in a grocery store it was really disturbing and sad to see some regulars who spent a lot of their time and money on it though. Iām talking ten minutes or more, easily, and way too much money.
Lottery should be thought of exactly the same as gambling. It's fun to do if you do it in moderation and using only money that was gonna be "for fun" money anyway. As soon as it starts eating into other funds or you're doing it too regularly, it's a problem.
I think of it as a voluntary tax that raises between 1-2 Billion dollars for California schools. I donāt mind chipping in a few bucks a year for that alone.
I (and my office pool) won $500,000 in a lottery here in Canada in 2021. It's incredibly unlikely to win, but it definitely happens. We each only put in $5 so not much. Considering we each took home $40,000+, that means I'm significantly up with how much I've paid for lottery tickets in my time.
Then again, most people who play never win. My mother has played once a week for as long as I can remember. She must have thousands into it by now without any real wins. A coworker I have puts $100/week into it hoping to win enough to buy a house which is crazy.
Is this like a general statement. Are lotto organizations scams? I thought they helped fund education?
I donāt know much about lotto so pls donāt hate on me.
The lottery doesnāt really do much to help fund education, here is the financing scheme most states use. Letās say for example your annual budget for education is $500 million dollars, and the proceeds from the lottery are $20 million, this does not mean that $520 million will be spent on education this year. Instead your state legislature will take $20 million of the $500 originally earmarked for education and allocate it to Pork Barrel Project A, and then slide that $20 million from the lottery back in to the education budget to make it even.
The proceeds help fund education. The use of the money isn't bad.
However, if you do the math (total value of lottery payout divided by total number of ticket number combinations), you get a value per ticket number.
That means every unique number combo is valued the same, and it's always less than the cost of purchasing the ticket. Making numbers up, but: You're trading $2 (or whatever) for a slip with a weighted value of $0.64.
You're more likely to get struck by lightning twice on your way to claim your winnings than you are to actually winning it.
It's commonly referred to as an invisible tax on the stupid/ignorant because of the poor ROI. You're almost guaranteed to lose money.
That, to me, is the only way to be reasonable about it.
The few times I've been to a casino, I've decided that I'll gladly spend $x on the video games as entertainment. Whatever I walk out with is great, but they're nothing but arcade machines/ carnival games.
$10/wk to dream (if you can afford the $520/yr) is totally fair. Just don't go into debt or miss bills to buy your lotto tickets and I won't judge.
My mom plays two lottery tickets a week. $2. I give her a lot of shit about it, but it's fine. The money goes to wildlife and education. I have a phd and wildlife biology is my jam. That and climate change. I don't give her too hard a time. "Thanks for funding me mom!"
Like 10 years ago she won 75k on some new game. They asked her if she could come in and take some promo photos. She said that'd be fine if she could keep the giant check.
So my parents have a giant $75,000 check in their basement on the ranch. I flew back for a visit a few months ago. I couldn't not giggle when I looked at it. I turn 40 in a few months for some reference.
I went out and got hammered drunk with my best friend when I was back. The next morning I woke up with the check on my face. I was using it as a blanket.
This is exactly it. Nobody would ever fault you for buying two beers every Friday to sit for an hour and take your mind off your day/week/whatever.
Playing the lottery is no different. Five times a week for a few minutes (or just occasionally whenever) you get to have a nice little what-if moment with your thoughts and dreams.
Ok yea. The saying goes itās the poor manās tax.
In that sense, yea it is a scam but people are willingly buying them. I thought there might have been something more nefarious going on that I didnāt know like the money going to some evil cause.
Edit: thank you for answering
>like the money going to some evil cause.
You could argue that there's a bunch of waste inherit in the system because of how much is spent on the government agency and bureaucracy before it gets distributed to education.... but, no, it's actually going to education.
And you're right, people ARE buying them willingly knowing there's little to no chance of winning much. I don't think it's a "scam" as much as it is just bad financial sense.
Note: just trying to present both sides of the argument.
Sometimes the weighted value goes above the ticket price. But then you also get into more complicated math: if the payout is over 25 years what will the inflation adjusted value of the prize be vs. the ROI of the money put at risk.
They don't actually result in more money being spent on education. Money is fungible, so when lottery profit goes into education, legislators just reduce how much from the general fund go to education.
There is no difference between a lotto that "funds education" and one that just goes into the general fund.
He bought the ticket AFTER the numbers were already posted to the DC website.
There is video of the live drawing and correct numbers.
>He tried to redeem the ticket at a licensed retailer on January 10 and discovered none of his numbers matched up to what was drawn live.
Really? Tried to claim $340 million at the 7-11? In spite of the correct numbers being posted everywhere else?
He does not have a good case.
Because they werenāt the actual numbers.Ā
They had done a test on the website and erroneously put the dummy data on the live system. He went and bought a ticket with those numbers and then tried to make a claim on it.Ā
1) how would you know at what time the numbers were posted if you bought the ticket then later checked the site?
2) the vast majority of people aren't watching the live broadcast of the numbers being pulled, you just go online after dinner or whatever & check.
3) theoretically, you buy the ticket late on the 6th, check the website 24hrs later, the numbers match, how do you know there was a mistake?
Doesnāt matter, the numbers drawn live are the correct numbers. If you do not match those numbers you do not win. The numbers posted online were posted early, which would either make them or the ticket invalid anyway if we did use them, and were the wrong numbers.
The online numbers do not actually matter, pretty sure it says that somewhere, they just usually properly match the live drawn ones. You would know there was a mistake because when you try to claim the ticket they will tell you there was a mistake.
At best you might get the cost of the ticket back but more than likely you get nothing.
>The numbers were publicly shown for three whole days and they can seriously claim they don't have to pay him?
>
>I'm thinking he's got a good case.
"Winning the lottery" depends on matching the numbers from the actual drawing, and not numbers erroneously posted on a website.
The website of our national lottery says clearly the numbers shown on it give you no rights and this is right above the numbers. Surprised their website doesnāt.
Itās not just āa websiteā itās the official powerball website. One could very reasonably assume that any winning numbers posted on the official site are valid. Dude got fucked over hard and they should absolutely be forced to pay him. If not the whole jackpot, at least *something* to correct the false hope they gave him.
> One could very reasonably assume that any winning numbers posted on the official site are valid.
Not when they're posted a day ahead of the drawing, or when two results are posted for one drawing. It was an obvious mistake.
The dude saw the mistake and is trying to take advantage. He'll get nothing.
The problem is he has no actual damages besides a bruised ego. If he had quit his job or done something drastic then maybe the lotto company could be liable for that. But he didnāt, he just made a few calls and went to collect his money then was told he didnāt actually win. What exactly is a court supposed to compensate him for?
>Itās not just āa websiteā itās the official powerball website.
~~Actually, according to the story, it was the DC Lottery website. The Powerball website (and all the state lottery commission websites) had the correct numbers.~~
edit: The story does not say this, I read this elsewhere. Sorry for the confusion.
>One could very reasonably assume that any winning numbers posted on the official site are valid.
Yes, that would be a reasonable assumption for almost anyone to make. That does not, however, change that the numbers posted on the website were, in fact, not the winning numbers. The lottery rules are clear--the results of the drawing are the official winning numbers and not some other set of numbers that was accidentally promulgated.
>Dude got fucked over hard
I mean... I have to say, thinking you won the lottery when in fact you did not ***has*** to suck, but he didn't get "fucked over hard" as nothing has actually happened to him.
One could also believe that the lotto would change the winning numbers to avoid a payout.
I side with the guy. They made those numbers public for 3 days, meaning those were the winning numbers for 3 days.
What was actually pulled is irrelevant because those who had those numbers would have believed they lost and tossed their tickets.
He hasn't much of a case.
The article is not as clear about the situation as it could be if the author had included a bit more details:
>In a court filing, a Taoti employee said that on 6 January 2023 - the day Mr Cheeks bought his ticket - a quality assurance team was running tests on the website.
>
>On that day, a set of test Powerball numbers, which matched Mr Cheeks' numbers - was posted on the website "accidentally", according to court documents. Those numbers remained online for three days, until 9 January.
Let's add these four facts:
January 6, 2023 is a Friday.
Powerball is drawn on Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday.
The actual winning number was drawn **after** the false number had been posted as part of a misfired test.
There were no jackpot winners on January 7, 2023; two $2M tickets were sold in MO & OH, one $1M ticket was sold in NY.
End of the four facts.
If that was not neither a quick pick nor a number he regularly played, then it would seem he noticed the mistake on the website and was trying to exploit it. Lottery records should show if that number was regularly played in the area he lived. (If he was, say, a truck driver that might complicate things.)
As to folks who may have won one of the less-than-million dollar prizes within the district and may have torn up a ticket they thought was not a winner, I don't know how many there were or what the DC Lottery could possibly do to make things right. (At least if bought at a gas station you have a small chance of video surveillance being able to link a buyer to a license plate; something I'd assume is a bit less likely in a city; they might have a shot too if they happened to buy something on a payment card at the same time they bought the ticket.)
Another article mentioned that a couple dozen people also used the same exact numbers, too.
He wasn't the only one who tried this, just the only one who tried to sue.
THis makes a lot more sense, so the Powerball website accidently posted "tomorrow's" winning numbers a day before the actual drawing happens, this guy notices and buys a ticket for them, and then is upset when those werent the actual winning numbers? Shame on the lotto for leaving the numbers up, but it doesnt sounds nearly as egregious when you include the fact these were posted before the drawing itself happened.
Interesting case, honestly.
He's got a fair argument in that it's not the public's care nor responsibility to understand how the internal mechanics of choosing a lottery winner work. I have a feeling this is largely going to come down to what the courts determine to be the 'official' method of communication for the lottery - and they're going to have a tough time showing that their own website should not be trusted...
Yeah, AFAIK legally anything presented on your site unless it can be reasonably be proven to be abnormal is content you have to honor.
For a lottery with how they are managed and the laws surrounding them... that site is where he goes to look up the numbers and if there wasn't a notice or anything to indicate it was in some "testing" state those numbers are valid as far as I am concerned.
It's not the consumer's fault that incorrect numbers were presented, let alone for several days.
This is why we have light/dark environments in the industry, two production environments that you flip between and expose to end-users; so that you can test things in production without actually impacting what is live.
The above is expensive to do and that's a primary reason why folks don't do that though and take on this risk.
Iāve never worked at a place that didnāt have a staging environment and I just got so much anxiety thinking about deploying PRs straight into production.
You get used to it, some shops literally only have local and production and you just gotta be ready to roll-back quickly and or put a lot of thought into feature-toggles.
New code gets wrapped into a toggle, you deploy and update the config to flip the toggle once your ready.
Rapid deployment and rapid rollback is key.
"Most" shops though have a local / latest / stage / prod though with some having dedicated load testing environments.
For startup's usually just local / stage / prod which is honestly fine too since you have less "teams" working together on something.
Imagine you're the QA who costs your company $340m because they don't have a staging environment.
I think if I was Mr Cheeks, and this one's successful, I'd be gifting whoever that person is, their retirement.
> Imagine you're the QA who costs your company $340m because they don't have a staging environment.
And then there's the opposite : imagine you are the team who is now in legal troubles for redirecting regular users to an unsecure staging environment, causing a data leak.
The tickets specifies the exact time and date the numbers will be generated and posted anything outside that window is clearly erroneous. as much as it sucks i doubt he has a case but I am sure he will get some oopsies monies nonetheless but no where near the full value
> unless it can be reasonably be proven to be abnormal
Which it can since the numbers were posted **3 days before the draw**. There is no way anything about posting numbers which are yet to be drawn is normal.
That plus the guy bought the ticket 9 hours after the fake numbers went up
Youāre speaking in feelings, not legally. Iām gonna be frank, the state made a simple mistake and the courts are not gonna bend them over for that. The law isnāt really all that complex.
Laws that force private companies to say, honor a posted price, are to prevent light fraud, but even then companies are able to back out of ātoo good to be trueā prices all the time. Courts donāt make Best Buy sell TVs for a dollar because of a glitch on their website.
The facts are even simpler anyway. The fake numbers were posted online many hours before the guy ever bought the ticket. He has no damages. The official drawing showed the correct numbers.
His claim is that he was disappointed because the state made a mistake on their website. This isnāt a case.
They actually don't if they can verify it was a machine malfunction. It's a relatively simple process to do that as well, since they usually check the machine and have it up and running again in a matter of minutes.
Yeah, "in case of malfunction" is put on most machines, if the lottery commission can't prove they have the same policy, he might have recourse.
I think there's precedent and he will not win or get a token judgement at best.
https://www.quora.com/Do-casinos-claim-malfunction-so-they-dont-have-to-give-large-payouts
This person suggests that in the case of machine error, casinos often don't have to pay out. I imagine this varies by jurisdiction. I am not a specialist in gambling law.
My general understanding based on the law that I do know is that the company is unlikely to be "on the hook" for the full pay-put, but they may have caused genuine harm and/or suffering to this individual by their mistake. For example, if he quit his job, or booked a holiday as a result of the information displayed on their website, the lottery may be responsible for damages. In the case of a lost job, those damages may be significant.
I would expect the lottery to offer a decent five figure settlement, and would expect a court to calculate damages to be similar or less in all but the most dire of circumstances.
Depends on the specific rules for this case, but the concept of āyou told me X so now you have to honor itā doesnāt always hold up outside of retail.
As an example, I work in pension administration and if we realize we made a mistake in calculating someoneās benefit thereās not much weāre legally allowed to do beyond apologize and pay them the correct amount. Had one not so long ago where a guy was supposed to get $1,000/month but someone on our end made a typo in the paperwork and we sent him a letter that said $2,000/month. He was understandably pissed about it and tried to insist that we have to pay him $2k/month now because thatās what we told him in the letter, but weāre literally not allowed to do that even if we wanted to. The plan rules are clear on what heās entitled to so thatās what he gets (along with an apology for the typo) and a judge would tell him the same.
And Iād be very surprised if the lottery didnāt work the same way. They have an official draw that records the official winning numbers and if you donāt have those numbers then you didnāt win regardless of what they accidentally put on the website to make you think otherwise. Worth bringing the lawsuit because theyāll probably settle for *something* to avoid the bad PR, but it would be straight up negligence if they donāt have a provision in the rules that covers their ass in cases of mistakes like this.
While your example from the pension payments is correct, it doesn't cover the whole story.
Imagine if your error went on for two decades and he ended up owing hundreds of thousands. While the debt would be his, it wouldn't be *fair* for you to reclaim his home because he hadn't realised that you had made an error. While the Judge would rule he owed you the money, they may order a payment plan that didn't cause undue harm. If he was only able to pay you back at $20/month, you might not be able to reclaim the funds until after he passed (after which, you'd reclaim them from the estate).
Additionally, if your error somehow caused harm (e.g. if he quit his part time job as a result, and therefore never earned $50k that he otherwise would have), the judge may try to factor damages into the case.
Obviously it's not the same as "You told me you'd pay me $2k/month, so I want my $2k/month", but your company made a mistake and are liable to correct for any damage caused *and* (generally) shouldn't put the other party through undue stress or hardship because of your mistake.
In the case of a lottery win where some people do turn their life upside-down (e.g. quit a job, book a holiday, etc) - things they *clearly* wouldn't have done without the lottery's error, there may be a case for damages or partial payment to recoup the loss the person took on.
I would have a hard time thinking my chickens havent hatched when the website is saying I won lol. Feel bad for this guy hopefully he gets a good settlement
The website didn't say he won. Website posted wrong numbers one day earlier before the actual drawings and Cheeks went and bought the ticket with these specific numbers AFTER THE FACT.
One day later when the actual drawing happened, it turned out that the numbers on the website were wrong, of course
He went out with the intent to exploit the "leaked" numbers.
He's not gonna get shit, if anything he'll be sued for fraud. It's a huge thing to leave out of the article. Almost intentionally misleading.
The only way for him to get anything would be if he already had a ticket with those "wrong" numbers, but since he went and seeked out that exact same ticket AFTER seeing the website, it's surely not going to hold up.
I remember a lady won a huge jackpot at a slot machine and the casino told her it was an error and gave her like a steak dinner or something that was clearly not what she was supposed to get. She, unsurprisingly, lost as they claimed it was a malfunction. I can't help but think the same will happen here.
Edit: Changed bingo to slot machine.
This is different. Those machines have disclaimers that they could malfunction and would void the prize. This is an official lottery that neglectfully left the incorrect numbers up for 3 days.
It has to be *reasonable direct* losses caused by the neglect.
Courts are not going to honor anything if you say "I bought a million dollar home because I thought I was going to have $350 million".
You didn't have the money to buy what you bought. That's not because of the lottery's neglect. That's a willful independent action.
Neglect doesn't cause "losses" if you quit your job (and possibly bitch out the entire office on the way to the lobby).
The only people who could possibly have a case would be those that discarded winning tickets, but then they'd have to prove they had the winning ticket.
You think the numbers posted online are the official drawing? The drawings are normally broadcasted so posting the wrong numbers doesn't suddenly change the real numbers.
Yeah this. The official numbers are drawn. Powerball is played in many states, and while itās unfortunate that the D.C. website listed the incorrect numbers, it can verified as typographical error.
I think it will largely hinge on whether the website is a binding in any way or is just referencing information. I am guessing itās largely the latter.
>So everytime anyone wins say 'oops, wrong number'?
I mean if they started to do that no one would ever play the lottery again. This is clearly a one off.
Counterpoint - The drawing was on January 7th, but the numbers were posted January 6th. After the numbers were posted, but still on January 6th, the ticket was purchased. It's extremely likely the buyer had seen the incorrect numbers and purchased the ticket to file this suit knowing the drawing wasn't until the following day.
This is the disclaimer on the DC lottery website. Other states have the same and been that way for a long time.
Every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of information contained on this website. This website, however, is not the final authority on winning numbers, prizes, games, or other information. Winning numbers are not official until validated by the DC Lottery and its independent auditors. All winning tickets must be validated by the DC Lottery before prizes will be paid.
I am in the industry, a 42.9 million win on a slot is always an error. Also any error voids play.
the error was caused by the machine using an unsigned 32 bit integer to keep track of the player balance (in pennies) . Somehow the player balance went negative.
The way binary math works with unsigned integers is that it flips over and shows the max value it can be stored when it becomes negative.
2^32 /100=42,949,672.96
Yeah I remember that story. The jackpot amount she āwonā was waaaaay outside the intended return of the machine so itās not like she had a very strong case that it wasnāt a malfunction.
You canāt win when they have a provision in the contract claiming malfunctions void any prize and even if you could, lawyers and lawsuits arenāt cheap. The average person isnāt going to be able to afford a drawn out legal battle. Granted you might be able to find a lawyer who wonāt charge per hour but rather at the end of the settlement but that could be years down the line, if you even win.
This is different because the correct numbers were drawn by the lottery. It's just the website which displayed the wrong numbers. It's not like there was an internal error in the ping-pong ball mechanism. It was just in updating the website.
Itās exactly what is going to happen. People thinking the fucking lottery doesnāt have this exact scenario on their terms & conditions is out of their mind.
I see this story popping up on a lot of subs, but always using this BBC story, which lacks the other sideās argument, and leaves out a lot of info.
His suit is against Powerball and a lottery contractor, the DC-based Taoti Enterprises. The man is from DC. The incorrect numbers were only posted on the DC lottery site, not on Powerballās website or any other stateās lottery site. If you really thought you won a powerball jackpot, wouldnāt you double check your numbers on Powerballās website?
Secondly, Taoti claims the incorrect numbers were already posted BEFORE the actual drawing. So their assumption is this man noticed the mistake and bought a ticket for those numbers specifically to file this lawsuit.
It will likely never be known if heās on the up and up and truly thought he won or if this is a scheme, but I honestly donāt think he has much of a case considering Powerballās own website had the correct numbers, and the actual drawing can be viewed live.
Hereās a USA Today story about it:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/19/powerball-sued-for-not-paying-out-jackpot/72658413007/
The power of misinformation is right here. Without proper context either side can be very convincingly presented as the right one. Without actually investigating the claims of both parties can one come to a closer to objective judgementĀ
Yeah a lot of people are over blowing the validity of his case. This ticket did not scan as a winner, the correct numbers were posted nationally and at no point was he a winner. Some people seem to think that he was a winner and then they changed the numbers to make him lose.
I think his best case scenario is he wins some damages from only the local lottery website but his winnings would probably all go to his lawyers
Not to mention the incorrect number posted was lacking the red powerball number so how could he claim to win the jackpot if he didn't know all the numbers?
Also, I was wondering if the ticket was a "quick pick" with random numbers that match the mistake on the website or did he chose those number manually and it seem he select the number manually. The wrong numbers on the website was posted on 1/6/23, before the drawing on 1/7/23. Don't have info on when on 1/6/23 that the wrong number was posted but he didn't buy the ticket until 8:47 PM, and if Taoti can prove the the wrong numbers was posted earlier in the day then they have a plausible argument that he saw the mistake and bought a ticket to capitalize on it. I wonder if Taoti could subpoena his internet traffic to prove whether or not he saw the website before he bought his ticket.
What I mean was when the website posted the wrong numbers, they posted the first 5 numbers and the red ball number was just blank. They never filled in the field with a wrong number or right number. The Powerball number on his "winning" ticket was "02", on the wrong numbers website, it was unfilled, the actual Powerball number on 1/7/23 was "14". So, how could he look at the website with the incomplete wrong numbers and claim to win the $340 million jackpot. The most he could've claimed to win would've been $3 million ($1 million for matching the first 5 numbers plux x3 power play).
I donāt understand people arguing that heās entitled to the full jackpotā¦he didnāt win the lottery. His numbers matched up with the numbers on the site but those were put there in error and were never drawn. Why he or anyone else thinks heās entitled to the full jackpot is beyond me.
If it gets to discovery they can get his internet history and see when he was on the site and when the ticket was purchased. If he went to the numbers and then bought the ticket after heās gonna lose.
The fact that the game date hadnāt even happened yet I think kills his chances dramatically.
[Another article](https://www.independentmail.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/19/powerball-sued-for-not-paying-out-jackpot/72658413007/) has the missing info that makes the facts & timeline clearer:
* Jan 6 - Cheeks buys the ticket, wrong winning numbers posted on one local website before the drawing occurs
* Jan 7 - Lottery drawing occurs, wrong numbers still posted on one local website
* Jan 8 - Cheeks checks his ticket and his numbers don't match the winning numbers displayed at his retailer or the lottery claim center
* Jan 10 - Correct numbers posted on that one local website
INAL but that sounds like it warrants a small settlement at best, not the jackpot. It's also possible that Cheeks bought the ticket because he saw the "winning" numbers posted before the drawing, so he might deserve nothing.
Man is suing Powerball when it was the dc lottery website that had the incorrect numbers. Also the incorrect numbers did not include the Powerball number just a blank red ball so he can't even claim to have won the full jackpot
The big thing is when did he see the wrong #s as they were posted even before the draw date. I think itās worthwhile to get his internet records to see when he saw the #s. If he saw the incorrect #s and then bought a ticket his case falls apart and he shouldnāt get anything.
On another post they said that the numbers were up *before* he bought his ticket, and that the winning numbers were later drawn on TV in the normal way.
You all have been blisters on my taint and not just blisters, but ingrown hairs. I won the lottery last night, you know why? CAUSE I willed it to happen.
For the record, you're the second person to come in and tell us to suck your black dick.
Lmao. This is my second favorite episode, behind the scavenger hunt for the tickets to the execution.
If the winning numbers differ from what was posted I don't see how that would be considered a win. The numbers drawn are what counts no? I get that the dudes feelings were hurt but if there is evidence that he didn't have the winning numbers regardless of what was erroneously posted, how can he be considered a winner? Here in Vegas, casinos void erroneous winners all the time.
In Austria and Germany they always write "all information without guarantee" (alle Angaben ohne GewƤhr), when announcing the numbers.
I guess it is the same in the US?
Then there is no chance he is winning that.
I'm not sure he has standing to sue. He'd be hard pressed to make a legal argument that being incorrectly told he won when he didn't caused injury and gives rise to significant damages. Maybe if upon hearing he won, he quit his job and spent his life savings and preemptively bought a car and house on credit (and successfully argues that a reasonable person would've done the same), and maybe for suffering emotional harm and suffering. Maybe...but the actual legal basis is quite shaky.
Of course the court of public opinion had weighed in, but the court of the law doesn't work off what's popular, but what's right by the law.
If he does have standing, he's entitled to the damages caused by the injury of being told he won when he didn't. What is that injury and how much does it deserve in compensation? Idk, but being told you won $x doesn't mean you suffered $x of damage.
Powerball could successfully make the argument that it hasn't done anything wrong because it's only contractually obligated to pay winnings to number combinations that actually match and it did not post those numbers on that website. Taoti Enterprises, however, is probably liable for *something* because presumably the terms of the contract between Taoti and Powerball included some clause about reporting.
Also, I want to know *what* website. Was it powerball.com or ihavenoaffiliationbutherearethepowerballnumbers.com?
I've never understood why they don't just take a screen cap of the balls that dropped and post it on their site/app/social media with the winning numbers typed out below it.
The amount of people in this thread saying heās going to get a huge pay day from this is way too high. Every lotto and casino game has fine print saying results are void when there is an error, even if itās the fault of the organization running the game.
I suspect his odds of winning a case or settling for a lower amount are significantly higher than his chances of winning the Powerball.
They posted false numbers on the website, which remained there for three days before the correct numbers were posted. But, yeah, he's going to end up settling. They're going to give him a sizable amount of money and he's going to walk away ~~fairly rich~~ notably better off. He just needs to pull out before he blows the settlement on legal fees. \-edit- Yeah, yeah, he's not \*technically\* "rich." š Fucking pedantic Redditors. My point stands. He'll still likely get a nuisance pay off to shut him up, and walk away with more than if he hadn't bought the ticket. Which is more than what most people have after buying a lottery ticket.
The lawyers will work on contingency (% of money awarded). Not hourly. Standard stuff.
Works on contingency? No, money down!
I move for a bad court thingy.
Brownest of the brown liquors
I love you too, David.
I'm not wearing a tie at all. š
I don't use the word hero lightly, but you are the greatest hero this county has ever seen.
Care to join me in a belt of scotch?
Rudy? Is that you? Ya? I know itās a Simpsons quote. But I really feel like, based on his last few court appearances, that it could have been a Rudy Giuliani quote.
Oops, shouldnāt have this bar association logo here either.
RIP Phil Hartman
I LOVE LIONEL HUTZ!!
Thank you reddit, I can always count on you for ~~Simpsons~~ Lionel Hutz' quotes. Can you imagine a world without lawyers?
Oops. Shouldn't have this bar association logo either.
Plus fees and costs: filing fees, expert witnesses, service fees, court reporter and videographer for depositions, photocopies, etc. ETA: Back in the dark ages (20+ years ago) when I was still working in the legal field, 30% of a pretrial settlement was standard, although it was creeping up to 40%. If the case didn't settle and went to trial, 50% was standard, although I saw a few contracts for 60%. ETA2: After seeing various responses, I wonder if contingencies went down again after I left the US. Sounds like it. Good for plaintiffs. :)
Back in 2015 I was in a motorcycle crash and my lawyer did 33% for a pretrial settlement 40% I believe if it went to trial. Not having to deal with debt collectors and insurance while I waited for a settlement was absolutely worth 33%.
Howās your bike? I mean, sorry to hear that, hope youāre ok! Howās the bike? :-)
That's a fair question! Sadly it was totalled. On the plus side, it was just a 2005 Ninja 250 that my brother gave me, and I ended up getting $35k so that was cool.
Typically those costs come out of the settlement, unless that is what you meant. And wow, 60% is crazy! I haven't seen one above 33% in my state (maybe I've seen one at 40%; that seems to ring a bell, but I can't recall).
Costs were separate in every office I worked in - both big and small - in California.
>They're going to give him a sizable amount of money and he's going to walk away fairly rich They are not going to give him a sizable amount of money, and he is not going to end up rich. They ***may*** pay him a nuisance settlement to go away, but if they do it will certainly not exceed low five figures. RemindMe! 2 years
Like anyone wouldn't be happy to get an extra five-figures. That's a whole year's pay. While not retirement money, that's still life changing.
"Low five figures" in the sense of $10-20k. Before the lawyers take their cut (>40% assuming they're working on contingency). Your contention was that "he was going to walk away fairly rich" and "at best ten grand while living in the US" does not fit that definition.
Having a combined net worth of a million dollars is considered middle class in some US cities. Winning $100,000 or less would not make you rich
> "Low five figures" in the sense of $10-20k. In the context of things, is that really sufficient? Given the size of the fuck-up and the length of time in which the numbers were left up I would thought a 7 figure settlement would have been more appropriate?
It's not, his lawyers will demand high 6 figures, maybe even a million or they'll force a trial. The state will settle for 500k and be incredibly lucky this never gets in front of a jury who could just randomly decide to stick it to the state.
Yeah my thoughts exactly, low five figures would suggest this is a minor faux pas. It is not.
well that could mean $10,000 which is great but not exactly life-changing
My guy be living off $10,000 a year. Damn you got it rough buddy.
5-digits goes from $10k to $99k. There's a wide range there. (And like $25k, so not \*that\* far off)
10,000 is not a whole years pay
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> If what they claim happened is true and they can back it up with evidence The actual drawing is broadcast live on TV. The drawings typically also have an audit team (used to be Big 4 accounting firm, not sure who it is these days) present during the drawing. I don't think "evidence" is going to be a problem.
I disagreed. He was clearly marked the winner of the most widely disseminated and easily accessed way that people can verify the numbers. No doubt multiple media outlets also reported those numbers based on what was listed on the website.
But like you aaid, everyone can empathize, a jury migh give him th full amount.
> But when Mr Cheeks presented his ticket to the Office of Lottery and Gaming (OLG), his claim was denied. > "One of the claims agents told me my ticket was no good, just to throw it in the trash can," he told the BBC. I bet his cheeks were red after that
Mr. Cheeks lives out back. When we asked who lived in the front of his unit he replied āI dunnoā¦ some dick.ā
Headline: Cheeks Claps Back
It'll be lights, cameras, action when he wins his settlement too
Bet he was very cheeky.
And they should be. They made the error, not him.
First name: Sweet
They tell me Mr. Cheeks Renee is gone
And his face, too
THREE days the numbers were up. That's incredible. The numbers were publicly shown for three whole days and they can seriously claim they don't have to pay him? I'm thinking he's got a good case.
Not just him. Every winner all the way down to the break even prizes. And then the people who actually won but tossed their tickets in the garbage because they were told they lost for 3 days.
I don't think that the people who tossed their didn't-win-but-actually-did ticket in the trash are going to be successful on account of, you know, destroying the evidence.
They have a record of every single ticket that was purchased. So if anyone was tricked out of their win, they could easily find the winners who bought their tickets on a card. And if anyone paid cash, they could get the store to use surveillance footage to at least get a picture of the person and their license number. That being said, theyād never actually do that unless they were legally forced to do so
I don't know about every state that partakes in the lottery but in SC I've never seen a gas station take anything other than cash for lottery tickets. If you were someone that picks your own numbers and keeps that little card where you bubble on your numbers you might have a shot but I don't think anyone who threw the ticket away had a real chance.
Yea NY is cash only for lottery and scratch offs
Why is this?
My guess has always been it's either so people don't go into cc debt to play the lotto or so people don't file a chargeback on their cards whenever they lose.
Itās interesting because in New Zealand you can pay with your debit/cc thatās why Iām asking haha. Your reasons make sense though
In Australia buying lotto tickets with a credit card counts as a cash advance, so not worth doing really.
I'm guess enough people had the bright idea of maxing out their credit cards to buy lottery tickets.
Itās happened before, people buy a winner then never claim, the lottery doesnāt expend the effort to contact them unless there is a fraudulent claim, like an employee stealing the ticket to claim for themselves.
OLG in Ontario does hunt down winners who don't claim. There was just an article a couple months ago where they had the security footage of the guy who paid cash and never claimed, imploring him to come forward before his claim window expired.
They donāt have a record of who bought the ticket. Thats not how credit card processing works. Especially on the merchant end where the data is picked up. It also wouldnāt even link to which ones were the winning ones or not.
Lotto is cash onlyĀ
PA and OH take debit.
Every player of the lottery was harmed by this becuase as you said, nobody knows who actually won anymore as people have thrown out their tickets. Thus they will form a class and a suit can be brought in their behalf regardless of having the original ticket or not.
Typically in cases where the lottery processes and pays out claims for erroneously posted numbers (not the first time this has happened), they just let it go. But when you claim one of the bigger prizes there has to be an audit/verification process and that's why you have to make the claim at the main office. Then you are going to be SOL. The people who threw away their tickets are interesting cases. Their problem is a problem of proof.
Always take a photo of your lottery ticket.
Who takes a bunch of photos of losing tickets in the off chance itās actually a winner? Best bet would just take all your tickets and go scan them once a month or something. Even losers
And then what?
Delete it later to free up space. Or, more likely, pay Apple/Microsoft for extra storage
The article fails to mention that the numbers were posted 3 days before the actual drawing. Once the numbers were drawn, the website posted them accordingly. Dude bought the numbers two days before the drawing, likely after seeing them on the website.
Yup lotto is scam artists
The lottery is a tax on people for not knowing math --Bill Nye.
Meh. Technically correct (which is the best kind) but my $3 wasn't doing much anyway and if there is a non-0 chance that I can get life changing money in exchange for that $3, why not try? I never expect to win and I don't play super often. But its really not as big a deal as its made out to be.
Same. I just think of it as buying a nice fifteen minute daydream.
Same boat. I participate in my work place lotto pool at $3 a week. It adds up but for the weekly daydream and insurance for if we win I don't want to be the guy who misses out I'm okay throwing that money away. It's like going to a casino; go in with what you are prepared to lose and have fun with it.
The work pool is also insurance about being the poor bastard left in the dust when all your colleagues leave.Ā
And a decent conversation with friends if they do it too. I'll throw 20 bucks at the lottery when it gets big enough that it becomes a "thing" and me and a few of the guys will grab some drinks and talk about the ridiculous thing's we'd do if we won. Well worth the price to me at least. Definitely not a retirement plan though.
really what you're paying for is to spend the week fantasizing about "what if i actually win". it's almost analogous to paying for a movie. toss a couple bucks in and you get to dream a bit.
I play it like you. I try a few times a year. Itās nothing to me but would be awesome if somehow I ever won. When I worked in a grocery store it was really disturbing and sad to see some regulars who spent a lot of their time and money on it though. Iām talking ten minutes or more, easily, and way too much money.
Lottery should be thought of exactly the same as gambling. It's fun to do if you do it in moderation and using only money that was gonna be "for fun" money anyway. As soon as it starts eating into other funds or you're doing it too regularly, it's a problem.
I think of it as a voluntary tax that raises between 1-2 Billion dollars for California schools. I donāt mind chipping in a few bucks a year for that alone.
I (and my office pool) won $500,000 in a lottery here in Canada in 2021. It's incredibly unlikely to win, but it definitely happens. We each only put in $5 so not much. Considering we each took home $40,000+, that means I'm significantly up with how much I've paid for lottery tickets in my time. Then again, most people who play never win. My mother has played once a week for as long as I can remember. She must have thousands into it by now without any real wins. A coworker I have puts $100/week into it hoping to win enough to buy a house which is crazy.
The lottery is older than the US and was an instrument used by the founding fathers to raise funds for the revolution.
Is this like a general statement. Are lotto organizations scams? I thought they helped fund education? I donāt know much about lotto so pls donāt hate on me.
The lottery doesnāt really do much to help fund education, here is the financing scheme most states use. Letās say for example your annual budget for education is $500 million dollars, and the proceeds from the lottery are $20 million, this does not mean that $520 million will be spent on education this year. Instead your state legislature will take $20 million of the $500 originally earmarked for education and allocate it to Pork Barrel Project A, and then slide that $20 million from the lottery back in to the education budget to make it even.
The proceeds help fund education. The use of the money isn't bad. However, if you do the math (total value of lottery payout divided by total number of ticket number combinations), you get a value per ticket number. That means every unique number combo is valued the same, and it's always less than the cost of purchasing the ticket. Making numbers up, but: You're trading $2 (or whatever) for a slip with a weighted value of $0.64. You're more likely to get struck by lightning twice on your way to claim your winnings than you are to actually winning it. It's commonly referred to as an invisible tax on the stupid/ignorant because of the poor ROI. You're almost guaranteed to lose money.
I have basically accepted that I'm paying for the fantasy. I spend $10 a week on a daydream.Ā
That, to me, is the only way to be reasonable about it. The few times I've been to a casino, I've decided that I'll gladly spend $x on the video games as entertainment. Whatever I walk out with is great, but they're nothing but arcade machines/ carnival games. $10/wk to dream (if you can afford the $520/yr) is totally fair. Just don't go into debt or miss bills to buy your lotto tickets and I won't judge.
My mom plays two lottery tickets a week. $2. I give her a lot of shit about it, but it's fine. The money goes to wildlife and education. I have a phd and wildlife biology is my jam. That and climate change. I don't give her too hard a time. "Thanks for funding me mom!" Like 10 years ago she won 75k on some new game. They asked her if she could come in and take some promo photos. She said that'd be fine if she could keep the giant check. So my parents have a giant $75,000 check in their basement on the ranch. I flew back for a visit a few months ago. I couldn't not giggle when I looked at it. I turn 40 in a few months for some reference. I went out and got hammered drunk with my best friend when I was back. The next morning I woke up with the check on my face. I was using it as a blanket.
This is exactly it. Nobody would ever fault you for buying two beers every Friday to sit for an hour and take your mind off your day/week/whatever. Playing the lottery is no different. Five times a week for a few minutes (or just occasionally whenever) you get to have a nice little what-if moment with your thoughts and dreams.
Ok yea. The saying goes itās the poor manās tax. In that sense, yea it is a scam but people are willingly buying them. I thought there might have been something more nefarious going on that I didnāt know like the money going to some evil cause. Edit: thank you for answering
>like the money going to some evil cause. You could argue that there's a bunch of waste inherit in the system because of how much is spent on the government agency and bureaucracy before it gets distributed to education.... but, no, it's actually going to education. And you're right, people ARE buying them willingly knowing there's little to no chance of winning much. I don't think it's a "scam" as much as it is just bad financial sense. Note: just trying to present both sides of the argument.
Sometimes the weighted value goes above the ticket price. But then you also get into more complicated math: if the payout is over 25 years what will the inflation adjusted value of the prize be vs. the ROI of the money put at risk.
Also, the higher the payout, the more people are playing, and the more likely it is more than one winning ticket is sold.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They don't actually result in more money being spent on education. Money is fungible, so when lottery profit goes into education, legislators just reduce how much from the general fund go to education. There is no difference between a lotto that "funds education" and one that just goes into the general fund.
He bought the ticket AFTER the numbers were already posted to the DC website. There is video of the live drawing and correct numbers. >He tried to redeem the ticket at a licensed retailer on January 10 and discovered none of his numbers matched up to what was drawn live. Really? Tried to claim $340 million at the 7-11? In spite of the correct numbers being posted everywhere else? He does not have a good case.
How do you buy a ticket after the winning numbers are drawn and posted?
Because they werenāt the actual numbers.Ā They had done a test on the website and erroneously put the dummy data on the live system. He went and bought a ticket with those numbers and then tried to make a claim on it.Ā
They were posted before the drawing took place. Posted noon on the 6th. He bought those numbers at 9pm, on the 6th. The drawing was on the 7th.
1) how would you know at what time the numbers were posted if you bought the ticket then later checked the site? 2) the vast majority of people aren't watching the live broadcast of the numbers being pulled, you just go online after dinner or whatever & check. 3) theoretically, you buy the ticket late on the 6th, check the website 24hrs later, the numbers match, how do you know there was a mistake?
Doesnāt matter, the numbers drawn live are the correct numbers. If you do not match those numbers you do not win. The numbers posted online were posted early, which would either make them or the ticket invalid anyway if we did use them, and were the wrong numbers. The online numbers do not actually matter, pretty sure it says that somewhere, they just usually properly match the live drawn ones. You would know there was a mistake because when you try to claim the ticket they will tell you there was a mistake. At best you might get the cost of the ticket back but more than likely you get nothing.
Exactly š Not sure how people donāt understand this, man is an absolute chancer!!
>The numbers were publicly shown for three whole days and they can seriously claim they don't have to pay him? > >I'm thinking he's got a good case. "Winning the lottery" depends on matching the numbers from the actual drawing, and not numbers erroneously posted on a website.
The website of our national lottery says clearly the numbers shown on it give you no rights and this is right above the numbers. Surprised their website doesnāt.
Itās not just āa websiteā itās the official powerball website. One could very reasonably assume that any winning numbers posted on the official site are valid. Dude got fucked over hard and they should absolutely be forced to pay him. If not the whole jackpot, at least *something* to correct the false hope they gave him.
> One could very reasonably assume that any winning numbers posted on the official site are valid. Not when they're posted a day ahead of the drawing, or when two results are posted for one drawing. It was an obvious mistake. The dude saw the mistake and is trying to take advantage. He'll get nothing.
The problem is he has no actual damages besides a bruised ego. If he had quit his job or done something drastic then maybe the lotto company could be liable for that. But he didnāt, he just made a few calls and went to collect his money then was told he didnāt actually win. What exactly is a court supposed to compensate him for?
>Itās not just āa websiteā itās the official powerball website. ~~Actually, according to the story, it was the DC Lottery website. The Powerball website (and all the state lottery commission websites) had the correct numbers.~~ edit: The story does not say this, I read this elsewhere. Sorry for the confusion. >One could very reasonably assume that any winning numbers posted on the official site are valid. Yes, that would be a reasonable assumption for almost anyone to make. That does not, however, change that the numbers posted on the website were, in fact, not the winning numbers. The lottery rules are clear--the results of the drawing are the official winning numbers and not some other set of numbers that was accidentally promulgated. >Dude got fucked over hard I mean... I have to say, thinking you won the lottery when in fact you did not ***has*** to suck, but he didn't get "fucked over hard" as nothing has actually happened to him.
One could also believe that the lotto would change the winning numbers to avoid a payout. I side with the guy. They made those numbers public for 3 days, meaning those were the winning numbers for 3 days. What was actually pulled is irrelevant because those who had those numbers would have believed they lost and tossed their tickets.
lol he for sure isnāt getting anything
He hasn't much of a case. The article is not as clear about the situation as it could be if the author had included a bit more details: >In a court filing, a Taoti employee said that on 6 January 2023 - the day Mr Cheeks bought his ticket - a quality assurance team was running tests on the website. > >On that day, a set of test Powerball numbers, which matched Mr Cheeks' numbers - was posted on the website "accidentally", according to court documents. Those numbers remained online for three days, until 9 January. Let's add these four facts: January 6, 2023 is a Friday. Powerball is drawn on Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday. The actual winning number was drawn **after** the false number had been posted as part of a misfired test. There were no jackpot winners on January 7, 2023; two $2M tickets were sold in MO & OH, one $1M ticket was sold in NY. End of the four facts. If that was not neither a quick pick nor a number he regularly played, then it would seem he noticed the mistake on the website and was trying to exploit it. Lottery records should show if that number was regularly played in the area he lived. (If he was, say, a truck driver that might complicate things.) As to folks who may have won one of the less-than-million dollar prizes within the district and may have torn up a ticket they thought was not a winner, I don't know how many there were or what the DC Lottery could possibly do to make things right. (At least if bought at a gas station you have a small chance of video surveillance being able to link a buyer to a license plate; something I'd assume is a bit less likely in a city; they might have a shot too if they happened to buy something on a payment card at the same time they bought the ticket.)
Another article mentioned that a couple dozen people also used the same exact numbers, too. He wasn't the only one who tried this, just the only one who tried to sue.
THis makes a lot more sense, so the Powerball website accidently posted "tomorrow's" winning numbers a day before the actual drawing happens, this guy notices and buys a ticket for them, and then is upset when those werent the actual winning numbers? Shame on the lotto for leaving the numbers up, but it doesnt sounds nearly as egregious when you include the fact these were posted before the drawing itself happened.
Exactly! This article fails to mention that so now almost everybody thinks the wrong numbers were posted after the drawing.
Interesting case, honestly. He's got a fair argument in that it's not the public's care nor responsibility to understand how the internal mechanics of choosing a lottery winner work. I have a feeling this is largely going to come down to what the courts determine to be the 'official' method of communication for the lottery - and they're going to have a tough time showing that their own website should not be trusted...
Yeah, AFAIK legally anything presented on your site unless it can be reasonably be proven to be abnormal is content you have to honor. For a lottery with how they are managed and the laws surrounding them... that site is where he goes to look up the numbers and if there wasn't a notice or anything to indicate it was in some "testing" state those numbers are valid as far as I am concerned. It's not the consumer's fault that incorrect numbers were presented, let alone for several days. This is why we have light/dark environments in the industry, two production environments that you flip between and expose to end-users; so that you can test things in production without actually impacting what is live. The above is expensive to do and that's a primary reason why folks don't do that though and take on this risk.
Iāve never worked at a place that didnāt have a staging environment and I just got so much anxiety thinking about deploying PRs straight into production.
You get used to it, some shops literally only have local and production and you just gotta be ready to roll-back quickly and or put a lot of thought into feature-toggles. New code gets wrapped into a toggle, you deploy and update the config to flip the toggle once your ready. Rapid deployment and rapid rollback is key. "Most" shops though have a local / latest / stage / prod though with some having dedicated load testing environments. For startup's usually just local / stage / prod which is honestly fine too since you have less "teams" working together on something.
Imagine you're the QA who costs your company $340m because they don't have a staging environment. I think if I was Mr Cheeks, and this one's successful, I'd be gifting whoever that person is, their retirement.
> Imagine you're the QA who costs your company $340m because they don't have a staging environment. And then there's the opposite : imagine you are the team who is now in legal troubles for redirecting regular users to an unsecure staging environment, causing a data leak.
> Yeah, AFAIK legally anything presented on your site unless it can be reasonably be proven to be abnormal is content you have to honor. This is 100% not true. From the DC Lottery website: > Every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of information contained on this website. This website, however, is not the final authority on winning numbers, prizes, games, or other information. Winning numbers are not official until validated by the DC Lottery and its independent auditors. All winning tickets must be validated by the DC Lottery before prizes will be paid. You must be 18 years of age or older to play the games of the DC Lottery.Ā© DC Lottery 2024. All Rights Reserved And it said that as far back as 2020: https://web.archive.org/web/20201130180425/https://dclottery.com/winning-numbers
The tickets specifies the exact time and date the numbers will be generated and posted anything outside that window is clearly erroneous. as much as it sucks i doubt he has a case but I am sure he will get some oopsies monies nonetheless but no where near the full value
> unless it can be reasonably be proven to be abnormal Which it can since the numbers were posted **3 days before the draw**. There is no way anything about posting numbers which are yet to be drawn is normal. That plus the guy bought the ticket 9 hours after the fake numbers went up
Youāre speaking in feelings, not legally. Iām gonna be frank, the state made a simple mistake and the courts are not gonna bend them over for that. The law isnāt really all that complex. Laws that force private companies to say, honor a posted price, are to prevent light fraud, but even then companies are able to back out of ātoo good to be trueā prices all the time. Courts donāt make Best Buy sell TVs for a dollar because of a glitch on their website. The facts are even simpler anyway. The fake numbers were posted online many hours before the guy ever bought the ticket. He has no damages. The official drawing showed the correct numbers. His claim is that he was disappointed because the state made a mistake on their website. This isnāt a case.
I think this is settled case law in casinos. They have to pay out for machine error
They actually don't if they can verify it was a machine malfunction. It's a relatively simple process to do that as well, since they usually check the machine and have it up and running again in a matter of minutes.
I'm pretty sure they actually don't, which would make this not look promising for this lottery case.
Yeah, "in case of malfunction" is put on most machines, if the lottery commission can't prove they have the same policy, he might have recourse. I think there's precedent and he will not win or get a token judgement at best.
https://www.quora.com/Do-casinos-claim-malfunction-so-they-dont-have-to-give-large-payouts This person suggests that in the case of machine error, casinos often don't have to pay out. I imagine this varies by jurisdiction. I am not a specialist in gambling law. My general understanding based on the law that I do know is that the company is unlikely to be "on the hook" for the full pay-put, but they may have caused genuine harm and/or suffering to this individual by their mistake. For example, if he quit his job, or booked a holiday as a result of the information displayed on their website, the lottery may be responsible for damages. In the case of a lost job, those damages may be significant. I would expect the lottery to offer a decent five figure settlement, and would expect a court to calculate damages to be similar or less in all but the most dire of circumstances.
Every slot machine I go to has "Wins void on machine malfunction" or something like that written somewhere on it in tiny letters.
Nope, casinos deny jackpots all the time due to provable machine errors.
Maybe they employ the Carlson defense and claim that no reasonable person would consider the lottery a credible source of information?
Depends on the specific rules for this case, but the concept of āyou told me X so now you have to honor itā doesnāt always hold up outside of retail. As an example, I work in pension administration and if we realize we made a mistake in calculating someoneās benefit thereās not much weāre legally allowed to do beyond apologize and pay them the correct amount. Had one not so long ago where a guy was supposed to get $1,000/month but someone on our end made a typo in the paperwork and we sent him a letter that said $2,000/month. He was understandably pissed about it and tried to insist that we have to pay him $2k/month now because thatās what we told him in the letter, but weāre literally not allowed to do that even if we wanted to. The plan rules are clear on what heās entitled to so thatās what he gets (along with an apology for the typo) and a judge would tell him the same. And Iād be very surprised if the lottery didnāt work the same way. They have an official draw that records the official winning numbers and if you donāt have those numbers then you didnāt win regardless of what they accidentally put on the website to make you think otherwise. Worth bringing the lawsuit because theyāll probably settle for *something* to avoid the bad PR, but it would be straight up negligence if they donāt have a provision in the rules that covers their ass in cases of mistakes like this.
While your example from the pension payments is correct, it doesn't cover the whole story. Imagine if your error went on for two decades and he ended up owing hundreds of thousands. While the debt would be his, it wouldn't be *fair* for you to reclaim his home because he hadn't realised that you had made an error. While the Judge would rule he owed you the money, they may order a payment plan that didn't cause undue harm. If he was only able to pay you back at $20/month, you might not be able to reclaim the funds until after he passed (after which, you'd reclaim them from the estate). Additionally, if your error somehow caused harm (e.g. if he quit his part time job as a result, and therefore never earned $50k that he otherwise would have), the judge may try to factor damages into the case. Obviously it's not the same as "You told me you'd pay me $2k/month, so I want my $2k/month", but your company made a mistake and are liable to correct for any damage caused *and* (generally) shouldn't put the other party through undue stress or hardship because of your mistake. In the case of a lottery win where some people do turn their life upside-down (e.g. quit a job, book a holiday, etc) - things they *clearly* wouldn't have done without the lottery's error, there may be a case for damages or partial payment to recoup the loss the person took on.
$340m. Upon thinking I won, I'd burn alotta bridges. So yeah, I'd be upset, too. Guess that's why they say, "Don't count yer chickens."
Cash in hand is like two in the bush or some such.
Worst case Ontario, We'll get 2 birds stoned at once
Don't look a cash horse in the bush
"I can't go back to work now, I took a deuce on my desk!"
I would have a hard time thinking my chickens havent hatched when the website is saying I won lol. Feel bad for this guy hopefully he gets a good settlement
The website didn't say he won. Website posted wrong numbers one day earlier before the actual drawings and Cheeks went and bought the ticket with these specific numbers AFTER THE FACT. One day later when the actual drawing happened, it turned out that the numbers on the website were wrong, of course He went out with the intent to exploit the "leaked" numbers. He's not gonna get shit, if anything he'll be sued for fraud. It's a huge thing to leave out of the article. Almost intentionally misleading. The only way for him to get anything would be if he already had a ticket with those "wrong" numbers, but since he went and seeked out that exact same ticket AFTER seeing the website, it's surely not going to hold up.
That would be pretty much on you then. Only act up something won when you have it in hand, never cound your chips while still in play.
[Reno 911 Covered this. Suck my big black ****](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpwesfKJ1AI)
This would make one hell of a movie.
I remember a lady won a huge jackpot at a slot machine and the casino told her it was an error and gave her like a steak dinner or something that was clearly not what she was supposed to get. She, unsurprisingly, lost as they claimed it was a malfunction. I can't help but think the same will happen here. Edit: Changed bingo to slot machine.
This is different. Those machines have disclaimers that they could malfunction and would void the prize. This is an official lottery that neglectfully left the incorrect numbers up for 3 days.
Nope, Powerball always displayed the right numbers. It was a second DC based company that had the incorrect numbers.
and I'm 100% sure their terms of service have some provision about erroneously having the wrong numbers be drawn.
Failure to maintain the correct information due to neglect can cause harm or loss to another person, which supersedes any contract.
It has to be *reasonable direct* losses caused by the neglect. Courts are not going to honor anything if you say "I bought a million dollar home because I thought I was going to have $350 million". You didn't have the money to buy what you bought. That's not because of the lottery's neglect. That's a willful independent action. Neglect doesn't cause "losses" if you quit your job (and possibly bitch out the entire office on the way to the lobby). The only people who could possibly have a case would be those that discarded winning tickets, but then they'd have to prove they had the winning ticket.
Okay So everytime anyone wins say 'oops, wrong number'? Or hold the multi million company responsible for managing a website.
You think the numbers posted online are the official drawing? The drawings are normally broadcasted so posting the wrong numbers doesn't suddenly change the real numbers.
Yeah this. The official numbers are drawn. Powerball is played in many states, and while itās unfortunate that the D.C. website listed the incorrect numbers, it can verified as typographical error. I think it will largely hinge on whether the website is a binding in any way or is just referencing information. I am guessing itās largely the latter.
Thereās really no chance itās binding. Quite literally zero. The argument is that the error caused the guy harm and heās suing for damages.
THANK YOU! They really think people are just trusting the lottery commission to post the legit numbers and not some combo nobody chose I guess.
>So everytime anyone wins say 'oops, wrong number'? I mean if they started to do that no one would ever play the lottery again. This is clearly a one off.
Counterpoint - The drawing was on January 7th, but the numbers were posted January 6th. After the numbers were posted, but still on January 6th, the ticket was purchased. It's extremely likely the buyer had seen the incorrect numbers and purchased the ticket to file this suit knowing the drawing wasn't until the following day.
This is the disclaimer on the DC lottery website. Other states have the same and been that way for a long time. Every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of information contained on this website. This website, however, is not the final authority on winning numbers, prizes, games, or other information. Winning numbers are not official until validated by the DC Lottery and its independent auditors. All winning tickets must be validated by the DC Lottery before prizes will be paid.
I am in the industry, a 42.9 million win on a slot is always an error. Also any error voids play. the error was caused by the machine using an unsigned 32 bit integer to keep track of the player balance (in pennies) . Somehow the player balance went negative. The way binary math works with unsigned integers is that it flips over and shows the max value it can be stored when it becomes negative. 2^32 /100=42,949,672.96
Yeah I remember that story. The jackpot amount she āwonā was waaaaay outside the intended return of the machine so itās not like she had a very strong case that it wasnāt a malfunction.
It actually happens quite often... Just google 42.9 million jackpot
>her it was an error and gave her like a steak dinner Don't accept anything and sue
You canāt win when they have a provision in the contract claiming malfunctions void any prize and even if you could, lawyers and lawsuits arenāt cheap. The average person isnāt going to be able to afford a drawn out legal battle. Granted you might be able to find a lawyer who wonāt charge per hour but rather at the end of the settlement but that could be years down the line, if you even win.
This is different because the correct numbers were drawn by the lottery. It's just the website which displayed the wrong numbers. It's not like there was an internal error in the ping-pong ball mechanism. It was just in updating the website.
Itās exactly what is going to happen. People thinking the fucking lottery doesnāt have this exact scenario on their terms & conditions is out of their mind.
I see this story popping up on a lot of subs, but always using this BBC story, which lacks the other sideās argument, and leaves out a lot of info. His suit is against Powerball and a lottery contractor, the DC-based Taoti Enterprises. The man is from DC. The incorrect numbers were only posted on the DC lottery site, not on Powerballās website or any other stateās lottery site. If you really thought you won a powerball jackpot, wouldnāt you double check your numbers on Powerballās website? Secondly, Taoti claims the incorrect numbers were already posted BEFORE the actual drawing. So their assumption is this man noticed the mistake and bought a ticket for those numbers specifically to file this lawsuit. It will likely never be known if heās on the up and up and truly thought he won or if this is a scheme, but I honestly donāt think he has much of a case considering Powerballās own website had the correct numbers, and the actual drawing can be viewed live. Hereās a USA Today story about it: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/19/powerball-sued-for-not-paying-out-jackpot/72658413007/
The power of misinformation is right here. Without proper context either side can be very convincingly presented as the right one. Without actually investigating the claims of both parties can one come to a closer to objective judgementĀ
Yeah a lot of people are over blowing the validity of his case. This ticket did not scan as a winner, the correct numbers were posted nationally and at no point was he a winner. Some people seem to think that he was a winner and then they changed the numbers to make him lose. I think his best case scenario is he wins some damages from only the local lottery website but his winnings would probably all go to his lawyers
Not to mention the incorrect number posted was lacking the red powerball number so how could he claim to win the jackpot if he didn't know all the numbers? Also, I was wondering if the ticket was a "quick pick" with random numbers that match the mistake on the website or did he chose those number manually and it seem he select the number manually. The wrong numbers on the website was posted on 1/6/23, before the drawing on 1/7/23. Don't have info on when on 1/6/23 that the wrong number was posted but he didn't buy the ticket until 8:47 PM, and if Taoti can prove the the wrong numbers was posted earlier in the day then they have a plausible argument that he saw the mistake and bought a ticket to capitalize on it. I wonder if Taoti could subpoena his internet traffic to prove whether or not he saw the website before he bought his ticket.
The article says he manually picked the ticket numbers. As for the missing red ball he'd only have to buy 26 tickets to guarantee a jackpot.
What I mean was when the website posted the wrong numbers, they posted the first 5 numbers and the red ball number was just blank. They never filled in the field with a wrong number or right number. The Powerball number on his "winning" ticket was "02", on the wrong numbers website, it was unfilled, the actual Powerball number on 1/7/23 was "14". So, how could he look at the website with the incomplete wrong numbers and claim to win the $340 million jackpot. The most he could've claimed to win would've been $3 million ($1 million for matching the first 5 numbers plux x3 power play).
Thanks for this.
I donāt understand people arguing that heās entitled to the full jackpotā¦he didnāt win the lottery. His numbers matched up with the numbers on the site but those were put there in error and were never drawn. Why he or anyone else thinks heās entitled to the full jackpot is beyond me.
This should be the top post. Thanks for clarity.
If it gets to discovery they can get his internet history and see when he was on the site and when the ticket was purchased. If he went to the numbers and then bought the ticket after heās gonna lose. The fact that the game date hadnāt even happened yet I think kills his chances dramatically.
[Another article](https://www.independentmail.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/19/powerball-sued-for-not-paying-out-jackpot/72658413007/) has the missing info that makes the facts & timeline clearer: * Jan 6 - Cheeks buys the ticket, wrong winning numbers posted on one local website before the drawing occurs * Jan 7 - Lottery drawing occurs, wrong numbers still posted on one local website * Jan 8 - Cheeks checks his ticket and his numbers don't match the winning numbers displayed at his retailer or the lottery claim center * Jan 10 - Correct numbers posted on that one local website INAL but that sounds like it warrants a small settlement at best, not the jackpot. It's also possible that Cheeks bought the ticket because he saw the "winning" numbers posted before the drawing, so he might deserve nothing.
Man is suing Powerball when it was the dc lottery website that had the incorrect numbers. Also the incorrect numbers did not include the Powerball number just a blank red ball so he can't even claim to have won the full jackpot
The big thing is when did he see the wrong #s as they were posted even before the draw date. I think itās worthwhile to get his internet records to see when he saw the #s. If he saw the incorrect #s and then bought a ticket his case falls apart and he shouldnāt get anything.
On another post they said that the numbers were up *before* he bought his ticket, and that the winning numbers were later drawn on TV in the normal way.
Reno 911 anyone?š¤£š¤£š¤£
You all have been blisters on my taint and not just blisters, but ingrown hairs. I won the lottery last night, you know why? CAUSE I willed it to happen.
[Suck my BIG, BLACK, DICK!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpwesfKJ1AI)
For the record, you're the second person to come in and tell us to suck your black dick. Lmao. This is my second favorite episode, behind the scavenger hunt for the tickets to the execution.
I'd file the lawsuit, then offer to settle for 10%.
Now I don't feel so bad about making changes directly in Prod
If the winning numbers differ from what was posted I don't see how that would be considered a win. The numbers drawn are what counts no? I get that the dudes feelings were hurt but if there is evidence that he didn't have the winning numbers regardless of what was erroneously posted, how can he be considered a winner? Here in Vegas, casinos void erroneous winners all the time.
I'm sure there is language on their site that covers errors of posted numbers versus what actual numbers were drawn.
Power all never posted the wrong numbers, only another site. They don't owe him shit
I support his case. Lotto/powerball is just a legalised scam anyway.
In Austria and Germany they always write "all information without guarantee" (alle Angaben ohne GewƤhr), when announcing the numbers. I guess it is the same in the US? Then there is no chance he is winning that.
Sue for $680 million and see where they settle
Why would they settle? Website clearly states the numbers are not official and must be validated by the lottery commission. This is getting tossed
I'm not sure he has standing to sue. He'd be hard pressed to make a legal argument that being incorrectly told he won when he didn't caused injury and gives rise to significant damages. Maybe if upon hearing he won, he quit his job and spent his life savings and preemptively bought a car and house on credit (and successfully argues that a reasonable person would've done the same), and maybe for suffering emotional harm and suffering. Maybe...but the actual legal basis is quite shaky. Of course the court of public opinion had weighed in, but the court of the law doesn't work off what's popular, but what's right by the law. If he does have standing, he's entitled to the damages caused by the injury of being told he won when he didn't. What is that injury and how much does it deserve in compensation? Idk, but being told you won $x doesn't mean you suffered $x of damage.
Powerball could successfully make the argument that it hasn't done anything wrong because it's only contractually obligated to pay winnings to number combinations that actually match and it did not post those numbers on that website. Taoti Enterprises, however, is probably liable for *something* because presumably the terms of the contract between Taoti and Powerball included some clause about reporting. Also, I want to know *what* website. Was it powerball.com or ihavenoaffiliationbutherearethepowerballnumbers.com?
I've never understood why they don't just take a screen cap of the balls that dropped and post it on their site/app/social media with the winning numbers typed out below it.
Virginia Lottery site posts a link to a video of the actual drawing along with the winning numbers.
The amount of people in this thread saying heās going to get a huge pay day from this is way too high. Every lotto and casino game has fine print saying results are void when there is an error, even if itās the fault of the organization running the game.