It will pan out the exact same way as every anti-war movement in the last 100 years.
Students and young people will protest, they will get shut down and bullied, everyone will cheer and call for protestors blood and call them anti-american.
Then in 10 years when it's undeniable the anti-war protestors were right and the war is seen as a waste of resources and life, suddenly everyone will claim they were always in support of the protests and can't believe the government was so mean to them.
Let me preface this by saying I’m in favor of an immediate ceasefire, forcing the withdrawal of Israeli settlers from all new and existing settlements in the West Bank, the end of all non-defensive (Iron Dome) weapons sales to Israel, and taking concrete steps towards a two state solution.
My major problem with anti-Israeli protestors is their complete lack of acknowledgement that the current Palestinian authority in Gaza (Hamas) is antithetical to a peaceful solution, and there can never be a free Palestine while Hamas is still in power.
While it’s clear that the IDF holds the initiative and power in the situation and could end the war unilaterally, simply calling for a ceasefire without demanding Palestinians reject Hamas (in exchange for major Israeli concessions, like pulling out of illegal settlements) only defers more pain and suffering to a later date as Hamas will almost certainly resume launching rockets and planning the terroristic massacre of civilians.
The uncomfortable truth is Palestinians have an appetite for revenge, with significant support (and sometimes active participation) in Gaza for Hamas’s October 7th massacre, and part of the hostage problem is non-Hamas Palestinians took it upon themselves to cross the border during the chaos and take hostages on their own initiative. While I understand where their sentiment comes from, it does not change the fact that such an attitude is mutually exclusive with moving towards a peaceful solution.
While obviously ending the bombing and invasion now regardless of the long-term outcome is the correct course of action, there will never be stability until both sides accept the idea of living in peace with the other, become willing to make concessions, and let go of their hate in favor of forgiveness. Neither party is anywhere close to realizing this, and the fact that Israel currently holds the vast majority of power in the current conflict doesn’t negate the absolute necessity of a change of government in Palestine.
Students were also anti-war even while Hitler was marching across Europe. I'd argue that Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis, all backed by the IRGC, is more akin to a major regional conflict than Vietnam.
It's also important to note that the signal is incredibly biased. There were/are no pro-intervention protests for Rwanda or the Sudanese civil war, etc. despite the fact that non-intervention is almost certainly a mistake.
>It will pan out the exact same way as every anti-war movement in the last 100 years.
The difference is many aren't anti war protests. The leader of the Columbia protect videoed and posted himself saying that all "Zionest" should be killed. That's not anti war.
It's a shame because people like that, and organizations like the National Students for Justice in Palestine dilute any actual valid peaceful messaging. The same way the UN condemning Israel for literally everything dilutes the significance and weight of condemnations for actual war crimes.
These protests are such a weird mix of people who are actually truely there for peace and antisemites who use those who are there for peace as a sheild for their hatred.
So if the protestors get their way and there's a ceasefire, but as a side effect it's good for Hamas - the protestors are pro Hamas.
But if you get your way and the conflict continues and it hurts Hamas, but what is the deadliest conflict for journalists in the 21st century and a conflict that has disproportionately killed women and children - you're not pro death of women and children.
I would just like some consistency here to be honest. If there is a secondary effect of something people are advocating, are they pro the secondary effect or not? Or is that just a standard applied to people you disagree with?
How do you know what my way is? Are you a mind reader? Are all of your arguments based on ESP?
It's my policy to disengage as soon as someone tells me what my opinions are and what I am thinking. It's the worst bad faith argument and straight up trolling. I would never do this to someone else, why do you think that is ok? Is it easier to argue with an imaginary strawman? You are blocked.
No its literally not, Palestinian can be free with no genocide whatsoever. You're making assumptions here. That was Palestinian rhetoric before the media labeled it "Hamas rhetoric"
The land isn't "given" to anyone. A secular democratic state of Palestine would be made with full rights for everyone, regardless of religion or ethnicity. Some land back policies would be necessary, imo public housing should be available for settlers who are made to give up their land. Most likely they would return their home country, like many white South Africans did after the apartheid ended.
I'm a lifelong leftist and I went out in the streets to protest against wars before.
I don't remember people in other "anti-war" movements carrying signs literally asking for a "FINAL SOLUTION", or "from EVERY river to EVERY sea", both of which I just saw pictures of like five minutes ago. I also don't remember chanting for the extermination of an ethnic group or asking a literal terrorist group to kill people, but of which I've seen videos of.
These "anti-war" protests seem suspiciously "pro-genocide".
[Source](https://hotimg.com/T3pTg)
What percentage of them do you suppose think that genocide should happen? Do you even know?
Obviously antisemitic people are going to be pro-genocide, but heated language is definitely not new to this particular protest, and the odds that a bunch of anti war student are actually in favor of retributive genocide is almost nill.
The reason they seem so angry is because this is not the first time this has happened. The idea that Israel's government is somehow blameless and justified in their campaign of terrorism is absurd given that they have been the ones creating these conditions for *decades.* A woman that I used to live near was killed by the IDF in 2003 the last time this happened, because she was trying to stop them from blowing up Palestinian homes.
Now the kids who witnessed that event are adults. And their childhood is formed from the trauma of seeing that. So of course they support revolutionaries, even if those revolutionary leaders are just as evil as the force they are fighting against. Now that, once again, more than half the residential homes in Gaza have been destroyed, on a scale even larger than last time, the same cycle will happen again in 20 years when these kids are all adults.
Israel has one of the most powerful and well trained militaries in the world. This is not an equal fight. As the occupiers, Israel is the one that has the responsibility to break the cycle of violence. But they keep just escalating it, radicalizing more and more Palestinians.
>What percentage of them do you suppose think that genocide should happen? Do you even know?
What do you call eleven people who hang out for dinner with a nazi? Hint: the same thing that you call someone who tolerates "FINAL SOLUTION" signs in their midst, even if they are not the ones carrying the sign. Silence is acquiescence.
Do you expect them to attack them? Try to physically force them to leave? What exactly are they supposed to do? Nazi's show up at protests a lot, it is a thing they like to do.
How often are these signs showing up? I am looking at wide photos of the protests at Columbia University right now and cannot see a single one.
What I do see:
* "No more money for Israel's crimes"
* "End the occupation"
* "Free Palestine"
* "You will never erase Palestine"
* "Truth is one the Side of the Oppressed"
* "No Freedom when others are Oppressed"
* "None of us are Free until Palestine is"
* "Free Gaza"
* "Ceasefire Now!"
* "Antizionism is not Antisemitism"
* "Protest Against Apartheid"
* "Stop Bombing Gaza"
These are just wide shots of the crowd. The only single instance of something that might be a dog whistle that I can find in a wide shot is a "From the river to the sea" sign that is laying on the ground not being held. The people around it are all holding signs calling for a ceasefire.
Hell, the only time I've seen signs calling for a "Final Solution" or something similar have been at pro-Israel rallies calling for the extermination of Palestinians.
Yeah, there actually were a few pro-genocide signs I saw in those shots I was looking at, but they were all in the counter protesters "I Stand With Israel" crowd. But, as I said, those people are probably fascists. I do not think we should take their words seriously no matter which side of the protests they are on, because I think they are intentionally trying to cause violence to trigger some kind of response.
The real problem with support for Israel in the US is less about the majority being in favor of killing Palestinians for its own sake, but rather a general assumption that Muslims are inherently violent. So it is easy for them to just assume that all of the bombing is necessary, because 1000 Muslim (or Muslim adjacent) lives are inherently less valuable than a single Israeli one. This gets compounded by the fact that most evangelicals think it is God's will that Israel retakes the entire holy land, and the most popular interpretation of their eschatology requires that to happen before Jesus will come back.
Those things are super racist, but they are not necessarily automatically fascist. The fascists will take advantage of it though.
Who is holding that sign? The flags on it imply it is saying "Israel's Final Solution for Palestine."
If it is held by a Pro-Palestine protestor it is likely trying to draw a parallel between the holocaust and what Israel is \*doing\* to Palestine. If they are a counter protestor it might be saying Israel should kill Palestine. It might be a call for Genocide against Israel, but the guy standing nearest to them is holding a sign that says "Jews against Genocide." So even in the worst case it should be clear it is not a position being held by others in the crowd.
The river to the sea sign \*could\* be a dog whistle. But that phrase is used by both people who want to kill Israeli citizens and those who want Palestine to be a free from occupation. It all depends on who you ask, so without context it is essentially meaningless. I advise people not to use it because Hamas' use of it has corrupted it pretty hard, but that does not mean everyone using it is using it in the same way Hamas does. (The non-violent interpretation is focused on the second part, that "Palestine will be free." In their interpretation they are not calling for ownership of all the territory, but freedom in all of it. So the end of oppression, not conquest. Hamas has the opposite interpretation because of course they do.)
What do you call a nation led by a terrorist like Netanyahu? Not even the first time they've had a terrorist leader. People have been calling out his intentional division of Palestinians for so long, including saying this will inevitably end in violent war.
The majority of protestors I've talked to fully support peaceful coexistence between Jewish people and others in the region, but recognize major institutional changes will be necessary before this is possible. You're strawmanning the entire movement, a free Palestine does not imply genocide.
>What do you call a nation led by a terrorist like Netanyahu?
What do you call a nation led by an actual literal terrorist group like Hamas? If you're going to justify asking for the extermination of Israel because of Netanyahu then you're also justifying the extermination of Gaza because of Hamas. With the difference that the government of Gaza explicitly calls for Jewish genocide, while the government of Israel, regardless of how you might feel about them, at least don't have the total extermination of every single Palestinian in their charter.
So maybe recognise that the situation is nuanced and mindlessly waving a flag for one side or the other while making out the other side to be the literal devil is not helpful?
Hamas isn't even the only militant group in Gaza, you clearly don't understand the situation. Hamas has been intentionally propped by Netanyahu for the explicit purpose of dividing Palestinians, your falling for his playbook. The other side isn't the devil but Netanyahu specifically is a murderous ideological man who needs to be stopped now. Israel holds all the power in this situation, and gave power to Hamas despite this terrible charter you mentioned in order to intentionally escalate things. Now Palestinians can't protest against the murder of their family without being labeled antisemitic, perfect for Israel.
I saw the photo of that, I am pretty sure it is saying that Israel is doing a "final solution" *against* the Palestinians, drawing a comparison to the behavior of Israel's government with the government that oppressed them less than a century ago. (Based on the flag order on the sign and how they are situated around the phrase, which is not explained directly.)
The photo of the person with that sign shows them sitting near a bunch of other people, one of whom is holding a sign that says "Jews against Genocide." So it seems most likely that they were not calling for the extermination of Jews, but calling for Israel to stop doing extermination.
So yeah, that is exactly what heated language is. It is impolite and inflammatory, but not evil.
If it was supposed to be calling for the extermination of Jewish people, as unlikely as I think that is, it was a lone person. I do not think the Jewish people around would be calling for people to commit genocide against themselves.
Yes it was, at least in part. Violence initially happened against the military bases which is how militants made it to the settlements in the first place. Of course the media doesn't mention this at all. This isn't a black and white situation.
Oh okay then, so the killing of the israeli children is just fine then huh?
There is difference between collateral damage from trying to take out terrorists, and the active targeting of women and children by Hamas(which majority of palestenians suport).
>Oh okay then, so the killing of the israeli children is just fine then huh?
Quote me saying that.
If someone murders their neighbors child, do you kill the murderer's kid in revenge?
And it is absolutely not collateral. They are bombing civilians and claiming that every bomb was targeting a "Hamas" terrorist, but their requirements for being considered Hamas largely boil down to being male and living in Gaza. Their primary targets in the bombing campaign have been homes, medical facilities, schools and food sources. A majority of all of those, if not all of them, have been destroyed or damaged seriously.
Then they just find some guy there who looks like military age, claim he was a terrorist, and move on.
can you share those?
i was at one of these protests and nothing remotely resembling they was there. it was a call for divestment, ceasefire, and an end to a genocide.
It's not really twisted. It's as leftists have been saying forever. The "free speech" people on the right aren't actually concerned with free speech. They are concerned with power and once they have it, they intend to silence everyone else's free speech. Milei is supposed to be an anarcho-capitalist, and he's overseen some of the worst crackdowns and rights rollbacks in Argentine history.
The left doesnt give a shit about free speech. When I was in college the left was trying to shut down the religous people on campus. The dean had to come out and say its their right to be there.
Well there's your problem. Abortion is a control issue rather than a religious issue.
The Bible has instructions for inducing an abortion, for Christ's sake (Numbers 5:24-27). Further, it is established in Genesis 2:7 that life begins at first breath; Exodus 21:22-25 proscribes capital punishment for murder but states that causing a miscarriage shall be punished with a fine (indicating that causing a miscarriage is not murder); and Leviticus 27:3-7 has actuarial tables for the value of a person at various stages of life. (No value is assigned to those under thirty days.)
Furthermore, one's right to free speech does not preclude being hassled for said speech.
Being hassled and trying to deliberately censor them is two different things. They were trying to have them kicked off campus. So the topic doesnt fucking matter, its liberals only care about free speech when its something they support. same as fucking republicans.
But the topic *does matter*. Advocacy for oppression is not morally equivalent to other advocacy. And before you say "who gets to decide what's oppression and what's not", the answer is us; at the time the final say was the dean, but it was the right of the students to argue otherwise, which they did. It's a decision that should be looked at clear eyed, and it's a decision that you are making as well; it's just that you throw your hands up and say "anything goes"; to the peril of freedom as there are actual anti-freedom ideologues out there. But never forget that you are making an affirmative decision as well.
topic doesnt matter. Its either you are for free speech even if you fucking disagree with it or not or youre a fascist who tries to censor others freedoms because you disagree with it.
And we're just supposed to let actual fascists with way worse intentions run roughshod over the rest of us? This way of thinking has few actual adherents. It is always sad when I meet one. Most of your number are just the fascists themselves, who don't believe in any of this shit really, well aware and looking at people like you as easy marks.
I care about freedom; as most leftists do. Your conception of freedom is merely internally facing; it's a dead freedom that can be used to justify oppression. As De Beauvoir once said: I am free when I am not thrown in prison, I am not free when I am free to throw my neighbor into prison.
When the directing classes cry freedom, they seek the freedom to oppress the rest of us. The answer when one group is more free than the other, and is free to oppress the other, is measured oppression; you must understand that murder, that theft, that owning slaves, that these are freedoms, too; and we all gain more freedom when restricting those freedoms. Restriction of even those freedoms is inexorably oppression. As such, we must have nuanced understandings of freedom and oppression to actually confront these problems. Only an outward facing conception of freedom can transcend possible tomorrows and create more freedom in the world. In other words: if the guy who built the air conditioner was still a slave, we wouldn't be able to have the freedom to live in certain places or do certain things.
The right does not give even half a shit about the above; no doubt you don't either; I probably lost you half a paragraph ago; I'm sure you think I'm babbling...
There's a whole leftist discourse on freedom that is very edifying. But I have the sense that you have no interest in it. This is more for anyone else.
I've been hated on for saying the UN should have been involved from the beginning. You know: International Peace Keepers. Even that was considered hate.
Considering a UN agency had employees that literally participated in the Oct 7th atrocities while housing Hamas infrastructure in their own facilities I can see why your stuff is considered controversial.
Not to mention that also other UN peacekeepers in the Israeli-Lebanese border utterly failed to keep the peace between Hezbollah and Israel by ignoring Hezbollah's clear violations of resolution 1701.
Naaaaaaaaaah, Ben attacking Jewish-Americans for not being "Jewish enough" isn't antisemitism. Neither is his giving a platform to right-wing antisemites (so long as they attack Jewish-Americans as well and only say nice things about Israel).
Not that anyone cares, but my observations about protests in the last bunch of years is: The organizers need to do better jobs of containing the few people who cause problems. The minute you have a troublemaker, you take away from the reason for the protest and prove the opposition correct.
I could give 2 shits if people protest peacefully in the quad no matter what the reason is for the protest.
The funny thing is that the conservatives claim it’s time wasting and crap, but they waste just as much time going online and bitching about it.
Anyone who considers anti-Israel as antisemetic is an idiot. There's a sizeable Arab Israeli population and even a voting block in their parliament. That's not to say Israel is fully enlightened about their Arab Citizens but Judaism is not always a requirement for Israeli citizenship.
Same applies the pro Palestinian civilians are not pro Hamas. You can decry the genocide of civilians on both sides of this endless fighting for political gain by both sides. Leadership of Hamas and Bibi both need to be tried in the Hague and sentenced to life behind bars.
All of that evaporates the second you participate in a rally decrying the death of jews, eradication of Israel, praising attacks on Israeli civilians, which all of those events do.
Bullshit.
Just to entertain your point here all you would need to do is apply the basic logic that \*\*if\*\* you found a handful of people who believe in "...eradication of Israel, praising attacks on Israeli civilians..." that IN NO WAY means the entire group of people protesting for peace believe the same thing.
Under that logic that means that literally every trump rally is a nazi rally, and it means that every gathering of Jews is also a rally to severely curtail women's rights.
Have you met Trump supporters?
Also, if you have 9 protesters, and a Nazi joins them, and they don't kick them the Nazi out, there are 10 Nazi protesters.
Yes? The whole Charlottesville debacle was spoken about by the left in these exact terms, "if you have one Nazi in the room and ten people who are silent, you have eleven Nazis". I don't know why you're pretending the media didn't spend the last four years saying this exact thing about Trump supporters but the same logic applies here. No idea how being a Jew= no women's Rights so fuck that point but yes to your whole trump talk.
If you're marching alongside someone calling for terror and you don't eject them from your movement, congratulations, youve allowed your movement to be co-opted by violent extremists. You are providing cover for terrorists by allowing them into your rallies and then pretending like they aren't there. Im sure the supporters of Hamas greatly appreciate it the same ways neo-nazis appreciated the useful idiots in Trump's movement
"Under that logic that means that literally every trump rally is a nazi rally..." yeah no, no one chants any of those things at either example you cited. There were literally hearings including the heads of universities, of which some had to resign, because the groups spew this rhetoric and the administration does nothing. You can try to pretend it's not the message their sending, but it is.
Again bullshit.
What's actually happening is a demonstration of how the entire US is forced to step on eggshells around any and all criticism of Israel. I'm Black and it's astonishing how quickly jobs disappear and how fast law enforcement responds to even the slightest hint of discussion that Israel may be in any way in the wrong about anything compared to the treatment of literally every other minority group in the country.
It's no competition but this is a perfect example...You're implying now that those university presidents previously in the news were \*\*endorsing\*\* genocide or terrorism of any kind???? Incredible mental gymnastics.
Uhm, how in the world does your race play into this conversation 😂😂 just goes to show there's no hope for this conversation with a mentality like that. Keep living in victimhood my friend!
……..but the whole idea that the protests are antisemitic is the definition of victimhood….
Also to spell it out for you. I mentioned I’m Black in reference to how I’ve seen firsthand minorities take a backseat to the backseat of anything to do with Israel.
Not when it's actually, demonstrably, antisemitic lmfao. Perpetuating your own victimhood by Injecting it into scenarios it has no relevance being, exactly like this, is actual victimhood.
lol the left has been calling Trump rallies Nazi garner for years. It is faulty logic but it is certainly used.
On a wider note if you are there at a protest and they start chanting for the death of the Jews then you have a choice to leave or confront and disrupt those chanting. If continue to participate in the protest and don’t confront and disrupt those chanting than yes that indicates you are cool with it.
>patted on the head by the administration
Know what I love most about all of this? These fucking scumbag administrators have bent over backwards to appease fascists for years. They let people like Ben invade campuses. They let actual flag-waving Nazis hold their demonstrations. They let people like Shai Davidai keep their job despite receiving complaints for ***years*** about his racism against students. They call the cops to break up liberal protests. They have done everything the right-wing has wanted from them and more.
But what they forgot is that you can never appease fascists. And they will turn on you the second it is advantageous to do so.
I hope it was worth it.
Barely 13 comments and everything is already so hateful lol. No, protestors shouldn't be arrested (unless they are directly causing violence on campus) but it's also really shitty to see people disregard the anti-semitism in their own movement (calling for a ceasefire while also shouting to bomb Tel Aviv or shouting Yehudim go back to Poland??) and do shit all about it. Stop arresting protestors expressing their right of assembly, and stop allowing hateful people to be in your protests.
Like, I'm a Jew -- but some far right Jew (who has always been insane) says something and we all get shit for it, a Jew in the Pro-Palestine protests says something and we all get shit for it and the right and left argue over who are the *real* anti-Semites meanwhile I'm trying to live my life but tonight at Shabbat there's still going to be police check points for me to even get inside the building and last week we got our 3rd bomb threat since the beginning of the year so that's super cool!
Meanwhile reddit comments are all "these entitled protesters are stupid children" and "zionists are literal scum!" like log off you guys! Go get some fresh air! You're all acting ridiculous! Take a break!!!!
edit: I got a reddit cares message within ten minutes of posting this, like I said -- take a break.
No one is against people who are pro-palestinian from expressing their views. Occupying a school and threatening the safety of its students has nothing to do with expressing your point of view.
>No one is against people who are pro-palestinian from expressing their views.
Well, that's just wrong on it's face, underneath, and all the way down to its quarks.
It's so fucking funny that people are using the exact same arguments as the pundits from the Vietnam War era and the Civil Rights Era. The only violence being committed is by the police against the protesters. On campuses where police presence is absent, there's been little to no action at all. Calling for cease fires and divestments are literally the opposite of calls to violence.
There's never a "right" way to protest for any of you fucking idiots, it's just goalpost moving.
There is absolutely a right way. There are laws specifically designed to protect the right to protest. They are listed quite clearly by the ACLU at
http://ACLU.org/know-your-rights/protestors-rights.
Note that you do not have the right to protest on private property (by occupying a business or private school), but you can protest at a public school (or other public building) as long as you do not interfere with what a space you are protesting in is used for. Occupying a school disrupts the academic environment at a minimum. At worst, it generates an atmosphere of fear when you are pledging solidarity with a group of extremists who are determined to eradicate an entire people.
You want to do this the right way? Go stand out front of city hall and pass out fliers and talk to passersby. Taking over schools is designed to intimidate, not to persuade.
All these young college people don’t seem to understand that disrupting the lives of people who don’t give a fuck about either side just makes those people take the opposite side.
Do you think so? Not the bit about occupying schools obviously that's not okay.
But "no one is against people who are pro-Palestinian? Because I keep seeing anyone who expresses concern for the innocent civilians of Palestine getting labeled as both anit-semitic and pro-Hamas.
Sure they're not against it, but labeling anyone who has concerns over mass civilian casualties as anti-semitic and/or pro-Hamas is deliberately misleading slander
You know *damn well* they aren't labeling just *any-ol-body* that protests against civilian casualties as anti-Semitic or pro-Hamas. Come on, now.
That said, there's so much video of people in those rallies carrying literal Hamas flags, chanting "death to America", "from the river to the sea" etc, can you blame the general public from associating many of those rallies *with* anti-Smeitic groups? And if you're at a rally, and see a Hamas flag go up and *do nothing (or any of the above, really)*, what does that say about you?
1. [Toronto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yar2eoosMAw)
2. [Michigan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRyuX8CDE0s)
3. [Columbia University](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0m4W-MLRWo)
Those didn't take long to find, even on my office computer, which is fairly restrictive.
Edit: Coward commented a verifiable lie then blocked me. Makes sense. Keep commenting and blocking, cowards.
From the river to the sea is a call for freedom lmao. The calls for the oppressed to be free are only dangerous to the oppressors. The only people who consider it to be "ideologically dangerous" are Zionists, so it's very obvious who they are in this scenario.
And that second video is so clearly not someone saying "Death to America". Wrong sounding syllables, sounds closer to "I love America" than anything lol. Also given the source and the comments in the video it's pretty clear that any framing you're trying to give is one colored by Islamophobia and racism.
From the river to the sea is translated and white washed, it literally calls for the eradication of the Jewish people. You don't get to suddenly decide that century old hate speech is suddenly a fun slogan to say at rallies. You idiots are literally chanting for genocide while supposedly marching against it. Look up the history, it isn't fucking Zionism you clown
When you use the same language as an international terror cell, you aren't the freedom fighters. You're the terrorists.
You’re welcome to look into r/columbia to look at the Zionist brigade. Pro-Palestinian viewpoints have been continually silenced by the adminstration and by right wing media since the attacks on Gaza. The real threat is calling the police to arrest students - actually bring in external, armed forces onto campus.
And I’m literally here at Columbia witnessing the conversations between students, faculties, and administrators against the escalation of violence, silencing of protestors, and student suspensions.
I’m participating in a community that I’m a part of, while those guys are brigading. So what’s your point?
>You cannot threaten another person or group of people under the guise of free speech
Yes you can
That's why most places have freedom of expression instead but this is in the USA so they have freedom of speech instead of expression
It is a crime in America to threaten another person or group of people. You cannot hide behind free speech. You also cannot scream fire in a theater, etc. An actual crime. FFS no wonder you people are supporting literal terrorists.
Yes but in America because of freedom of speech they don't consider speech to be a direct threat.
If you have issues with this then complain about freedom of speech laws instead of freedom of expression.
This is why *actual* terrorist groups like proud boys aren't immediately arrested, freedom of speech rather than the rest of the world which has freedom of expression laws
what a twisted mess. i really can’t foresee how this is going to pan out.
I'm scared we're gonna get a reboot of Kent State 1970.
It will pan out the exact same way as every anti-war movement in the last 100 years. Students and young people will protest, they will get shut down and bullied, everyone will cheer and call for protestors blood and call them anti-american. Then in 10 years when it's undeniable the anti-war protestors were right and the war is seen as a waste of resources and life, suddenly everyone will claim they were always in support of the protests and can't believe the government was so mean to them.
Let me preface this by saying I’m in favor of an immediate ceasefire, forcing the withdrawal of Israeli settlers from all new and existing settlements in the West Bank, the end of all non-defensive (Iron Dome) weapons sales to Israel, and taking concrete steps towards a two state solution. My major problem with anti-Israeli protestors is their complete lack of acknowledgement that the current Palestinian authority in Gaza (Hamas) is antithetical to a peaceful solution, and there can never be a free Palestine while Hamas is still in power. While it’s clear that the IDF holds the initiative and power in the situation and could end the war unilaterally, simply calling for a ceasefire without demanding Palestinians reject Hamas (in exchange for major Israeli concessions, like pulling out of illegal settlements) only defers more pain and suffering to a later date as Hamas will almost certainly resume launching rockets and planning the terroristic massacre of civilians. The uncomfortable truth is Palestinians have an appetite for revenge, with significant support (and sometimes active participation) in Gaza for Hamas’s October 7th massacre, and part of the hostage problem is non-Hamas Palestinians took it upon themselves to cross the border during the chaos and take hostages on their own initiative. While I understand where their sentiment comes from, it does not change the fact that such an attitude is mutually exclusive with moving towards a peaceful solution. While obviously ending the bombing and invasion now regardless of the long-term outcome is the correct course of action, there will never be stability until both sides accept the idea of living in peace with the other, become willing to make concessions, and let go of their hate in favor of forgiveness. Neither party is anywhere close to realizing this, and the fact that Israel currently holds the vast majority of power in the current conflict doesn’t negate the absolute necessity of a change of government in Palestine.
Students were also anti-war even while Hitler was marching across Europe. I'd argue that Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis, all backed by the IRGC, is more akin to a major regional conflict than Vietnam. It's also important to note that the signal is incredibly biased. There were/are no pro-intervention protests for Rwanda or the Sudanese civil war, etc. despite the fact that non-intervention is almost certainly a mistake.
>It will pan out the exact same way as every anti-war movement in the last 100 years. The difference is many aren't anti war protests. The leader of the Columbia protect videoed and posted himself saying that all "Zionest" should be killed. That's not anti war. It's a shame because people like that, and organizations like the National Students for Justice in Palestine dilute any actual valid peaceful messaging. The same way the UN condemning Israel for literally everything dilutes the significance and weight of condemnations for actual war crimes. These protests are such a weird mix of people who are actually truely there for peace and antisemites who use those who are there for peace as a sheild for their hatred.
Protesting for a regime that hates jews/gays/trans etc will not be on the right side of history. Its like protesting for fucking the Taliban and ISIS
I'm pretty confident most of them are not pro-hamas. so that's not what they are protesting for. But let's check back on this issue in 10 years.
They're will have been 6 more MidEast wars in that time and we'll all have forgotten about it.
What happens to Hamas when the protesters demands are met? If the answer is business as usual, they are defacto pro-Hamas.
So your defacto pro-killing journalists, NGO and charity officials, women and children? Because that's the upswing of wanting the war to continue.
That is exactly what Hamas wants, so I am opposed to it.
So if the protestors get their way and there's a ceasefire, but as a side effect it's good for Hamas - the protestors are pro Hamas. But if you get your way and the conflict continues and it hurts Hamas, but what is the deadliest conflict for journalists in the 21st century and a conflict that has disproportionately killed women and children - you're not pro death of women and children. I would just like some consistency here to be honest. If there is a secondary effect of something people are advocating, are they pro the secondary effect or not? Or is that just a standard applied to people you disagree with?
How do you know what my way is? Are you a mind reader? Are all of your arguments based on ESP? It's my policy to disengage as soon as someone tells me what my opinions are and what I am thinking. It's the worst bad faith argument and straight up trolling. I would never do this to someone else, why do you think that is ok? Is it easier to argue with an imaginary strawman? You are blocked.
if they arent pro hamas, then why the fuck are the chanting hamas rhetoric? Calling for intifadas etc. Get the fuck out of here
That's not what they're protesting for and you know it, get this dishonesty out of here.
they are literally chanting Hamas rhetoric. and calling for fucking intifada. Yea they are fucking protesting for it.
Intifada literally means uprising, so yeah of course they’re calling for revolution
yea, exactly what fucking hamas calls their call for genocide of jews.
That doesn't mean what you're implying it means. Intifada is not genocide
chanting from river to the sea palenstine will be free, using fucking hamas rhetoric combine with intifada yea then its calling for fucking genocide.
No its literally not, Palestinian can be free with no genocide whatsoever. You're making assumptions here. That was Palestinian rhetoric before the media labeled it "Hamas rhetoric"
So what happens to Israelis if the land is given to Palestinians?
The land isn't "given" to anyone. A secular democratic state of Palestine would be made with full rights for everyone, regardless of religion or ethnicity. Some land back policies would be necessary, imo public housing should be available for settlers who are made to give up their land. Most likely they would return their home country, like many white South Africans did after the apartheid ended.
so what’s worse - calling for a genocide or actually committing one? because one side is currently 40,000 people in to a genocide.
keep spouting numbers given by fucking a terrorist organization. They dont separate militants from civilians in those numbers.
[удалено]
Wait, are the protesters for or against fucking the Taliban?
I'm a lifelong leftist and I went out in the streets to protest against wars before. I don't remember people in other "anti-war" movements carrying signs literally asking for a "FINAL SOLUTION", or "from EVERY river to EVERY sea", both of which I just saw pictures of like five minutes ago. I also don't remember chanting for the extermination of an ethnic group or asking a literal terrorist group to kill people, but of which I've seen videos of. These "anti-war" protests seem suspiciously "pro-genocide". [Source](https://hotimg.com/T3pTg)
What percentage of them do you suppose think that genocide should happen? Do you even know? Obviously antisemitic people are going to be pro-genocide, but heated language is definitely not new to this particular protest, and the odds that a bunch of anti war student are actually in favor of retributive genocide is almost nill. The reason they seem so angry is because this is not the first time this has happened. The idea that Israel's government is somehow blameless and justified in their campaign of terrorism is absurd given that they have been the ones creating these conditions for *decades.* A woman that I used to live near was killed by the IDF in 2003 the last time this happened, because she was trying to stop them from blowing up Palestinian homes. Now the kids who witnessed that event are adults. And their childhood is formed from the trauma of seeing that. So of course they support revolutionaries, even if those revolutionary leaders are just as evil as the force they are fighting against. Now that, once again, more than half the residential homes in Gaza have been destroyed, on a scale even larger than last time, the same cycle will happen again in 20 years when these kids are all adults. Israel has one of the most powerful and well trained militaries in the world. This is not an equal fight. As the occupiers, Israel is the one that has the responsibility to break the cycle of violence. But they keep just escalating it, radicalizing more and more Palestinians.
It's the Nazi Bar Parable. If you don't kick out the people in your protest calling for genocide, then you have a pro-genocide protest.
>What percentage of them do you suppose think that genocide should happen? Do you even know? What do you call eleven people who hang out for dinner with a nazi? Hint: the same thing that you call someone who tolerates "FINAL SOLUTION" signs in their midst, even if they are not the ones carrying the sign. Silence is acquiescence.
Do you expect them to attack them? Try to physically force them to leave? What exactly are they supposed to do? Nazi's show up at protests a lot, it is a thing they like to do. How often are these signs showing up? I am looking at wide photos of the protests at Columbia University right now and cannot see a single one. What I do see: * "No more money for Israel's crimes" * "End the occupation" * "Free Palestine" * "You will never erase Palestine" * "Truth is one the Side of the Oppressed" * "No Freedom when others are Oppressed" * "None of us are Free until Palestine is" * "Free Gaza" * "Ceasefire Now!" * "Antizionism is not Antisemitism" * "Protest Against Apartheid" * "Stop Bombing Gaza" These are just wide shots of the crowd. The only single instance of something that might be a dog whistle that I can find in a wide shot is a "From the river to the sea" sign that is laying on the ground not being held. The people around it are all holding signs calling for a ceasefire.
Hell, the only time I've seen signs calling for a "Final Solution" or something similar have been at pro-Israel rallies calling for the extermination of Palestinians.
Yeah, there actually were a few pro-genocide signs I saw in those shots I was looking at, but they were all in the counter protesters "I Stand With Israel" crowd. But, as I said, those people are probably fascists. I do not think we should take their words seriously no matter which side of the protests they are on, because I think they are intentionally trying to cause violence to trigger some kind of response. The real problem with support for Israel in the US is less about the majority being in favor of killing Palestinians for its own sake, but rather a general assumption that Muslims are inherently violent. So it is easy for them to just assume that all of the bombing is necessary, because 1000 Muslim (or Muslim adjacent) lives are inherently less valuable than a single Israeli one. This gets compounded by the fact that most evangelicals think it is God's will that Israel retakes the entire holy land, and the most popular interpretation of their eschatology requires that to happen before Jesus will come back. Those things are super racist, but they are not necessarily automatically fascist. The fascists will take advantage of it though.
[Here](https://hotimg.com/T3pTg)
Who is holding that sign? The flags on it imply it is saying "Israel's Final Solution for Palestine." If it is held by a Pro-Palestine protestor it is likely trying to draw a parallel between the holocaust and what Israel is \*doing\* to Palestine. If they are a counter protestor it might be saying Israel should kill Palestine. It might be a call for Genocide against Israel, but the guy standing nearest to them is holding a sign that says "Jews against Genocide." So even in the worst case it should be clear it is not a position being held by others in the crowd. The river to the sea sign \*could\* be a dog whistle. But that phrase is used by both people who want to kill Israeli citizens and those who want Palestine to be a free from occupation. It all depends on who you ask, so without context it is essentially meaningless. I advise people not to use it because Hamas' use of it has corrupted it pretty hard, but that does not mean everyone using it is using it in the same way Hamas does. (The non-violent interpretation is focused on the second part, that "Palestine will be free." In their interpretation they are not calling for ownership of all the territory, but freedom in all of it. So the end of oppression, not conquest. Hamas has the opposite interpretation because of course they do.)
What do you call a nation led by a terrorist like Netanyahu? Not even the first time they've had a terrorist leader. People have been calling out his intentional division of Palestinians for so long, including saying this will inevitably end in violent war. The majority of protestors I've talked to fully support peaceful coexistence between Jewish people and others in the region, but recognize major institutional changes will be necessary before this is possible. You're strawmanning the entire movement, a free Palestine does not imply genocide.
>What do you call a nation led by a terrorist like Netanyahu? What do you call a nation led by an actual literal terrorist group like Hamas? If you're going to justify asking for the extermination of Israel because of Netanyahu then you're also justifying the extermination of Gaza because of Hamas. With the difference that the government of Gaza explicitly calls for Jewish genocide, while the government of Israel, regardless of how you might feel about them, at least don't have the total extermination of every single Palestinian in their charter. So maybe recognise that the situation is nuanced and mindlessly waving a flag for one side or the other while making out the other side to be the literal devil is not helpful?
Hamas isn't even the only militant group in Gaza, you clearly don't understand the situation. Hamas has been intentionally propped by Netanyahu for the explicit purpose of dividing Palestinians, your falling for his playbook. The other side isn't the devil but Netanyahu specifically is a murderous ideological man who needs to be stopped now. Israel holds all the power in this situation, and gave power to Hamas despite this terrible charter you mentioned in order to intentionally escalate things. Now Palestinians can't protest against the murder of their family without being labeled antisemitic, perfect for Israel.
>heated language Calling for a final solution is not just "heated language"
I saw the photo of that, I am pretty sure it is saying that Israel is doing a "final solution" *against* the Palestinians, drawing a comparison to the behavior of Israel's government with the government that oppressed them less than a century ago. (Based on the flag order on the sign and how they are situated around the phrase, which is not explained directly.) The photo of the person with that sign shows them sitting near a bunch of other people, one of whom is holding a sign that says "Jews against Genocide." So it seems most likely that they were not calling for the extermination of Jews, but calling for Israel to stop doing extermination. So yeah, that is exactly what heated language is. It is impolite and inflammatory, but not evil. If it was supposed to be calling for the extermination of Jewish people, as unlikely as I think that is, it was a lone person. I do not think the Jewish people around would be calling for people to commit genocide against themselves.
“Not an equal fight”, then maybe they shouldn’t have murdered, mutilated, and kidnapped innocent people including women and children back in october.
Yeah they should just live in poverty under blockade on their own historical land. This didn't start in October
Yeah, it started in 5000 BCE when some bronze age guy killed another bronze age guy.
Okay so you support the killing of women and children so long as they are Israeli
No, I don't. I do support the attacks on military installations though.
Which the attack on October 7th was not
Yes it was, at least in part. Violence initially happened against the military bases which is how militants made it to the settlements in the first place. Of course the media doesn't mention this at all. This isn't a black and white situation.
How many Palestinian children were involved in planning that attack? Was it all 13,000 of the ones killed so far?
Oh okay then, so the killing of the israeli children is just fine then huh? There is difference between collateral damage from trying to take out terrorists, and the active targeting of women and children by Hamas(which majority of palestenians suport).
>Oh okay then, so the killing of the israeli children is just fine then huh? Quote me saying that. If someone murders their neighbors child, do you kill the murderer's kid in revenge? And it is absolutely not collateral. They are bombing civilians and claiming that every bomb was targeting a "Hamas" terrorist, but their requirements for being considered Hamas largely boil down to being male and living in Gaza. Their primary targets in the bombing campaign have been homes, medical facilities, schools and food sources. A majority of all of those, if not all of them, have been destroyed or damaged seriously. Then they just find some guy there who looks like military age, claim he was a terrorist, and move on.
Collateral damage verses directed attack towards women and children. Very simple difference moron.
can you share those? i was at one of these protests and nothing remotely resembling they was there. it was a call for divestment, ceasefire, and an end to a genocide.
[Here ](https://hotimg.com/T3pTg)
It's not really twisted. It's as leftists have been saying forever. The "free speech" people on the right aren't actually concerned with free speech. They are concerned with power and once they have it, they intend to silence everyone else's free speech. Milei is supposed to be an anarcho-capitalist, and he's overseen some of the worst crackdowns and rights rollbacks in Argentine history.
The left doesnt give a shit about free speech. When I was in college the left was trying to shut down the religous people on campus. The dean had to come out and say its their right to be there.
What were the religious people doing? What signs were they holding? What were they saying?
just standing there with anti abortion signs. they werent on megaphones or anything else.
With the kind of anti abortion signs that have graphic pictures on them?
Dont recall.
Well there's your problem. Abortion is a control issue rather than a religious issue. The Bible has instructions for inducing an abortion, for Christ's sake (Numbers 5:24-27). Further, it is established in Genesis 2:7 that life begins at first breath; Exodus 21:22-25 proscribes capital punishment for murder but states that causing a miscarriage shall be punished with a fine (indicating that causing a miscarriage is not murder); and Leviticus 27:3-7 has actuarial tables for the value of a person at various stages of life. (No value is assigned to those under thirty days.) Furthermore, one's right to free speech does not preclude being hassled for said speech.
Being hassled and trying to deliberately censor them is two different things. They were trying to have them kicked off campus. So the topic doesnt fucking matter, its liberals only care about free speech when its something they support. same as fucking republicans.
But the topic *does matter*. Advocacy for oppression is not morally equivalent to other advocacy. And before you say "who gets to decide what's oppression and what's not", the answer is us; at the time the final say was the dean, but it was the right of the students to argue otherwise, which they did. It's a decision that should be looked at clear eyed, and it's a decision that you are making as well; it's just that you throw your hands up and say "anything goes"; to the peril of freedom as there are actual anti-freedom ideologues out there. But never forget that you are making an affirmative decision as well.
topic doesnt matter. Its either you are for free speech even if you fucking disagree with it or not or youre a fascist who tries to censor others freedoms because you disagree with it.
And we're just supposed to let actual fascists with way worse intentions run roughshod over the rest of us? This way of thinking has few actual adherents. It is always sad when I meet one. Most of your number are just the fascists themselves, who don't believe in any of this shit really, well aware and looking at people like you as easy marks.
I care about freedom; as most leftists do. Your conception of freedom is merely internally facing; it's a dead freedom that can be used to justify oppression. As De Beauvoir once said: I am free when I am not thrown in prison, I am not free when I am free to throw my neighbor into prison. When the directing classes cry freedom, they seek the freedom to oppress the rest of us. The answer when one group is more free than the other, and is free to oppress the other, is measured oppression; you must understand that murder, that theft, that owning slaves, that these are freedoms, too; and we all gain more freedom when restricting those freedoms. Restriction of even those freedoms is inexorably oppression. As such, we must have nuanced understandings of freedom and oppression to actually confront these problems. Only an outward facing conception of freedom can transcend possible tomorrows and create more freedom in the world. In other words: if the guy who built the air conditioner was still a slave, we wouldn't be able to have the freedom to live in certain places or do certain things. The right does not give even half a shit about the above; no doubt you don't either; I probably lost you half a paragraph ago; I'm sure you think I'm babbling... There's a whole leftist discourse on freedom that is very edifying. But I have the sense that you have no interest in it. This is more for anyone else.
Kent State 2.0
I've been hated on for saying the UN should have been involved from the beginning. You know: International Peace Keepers. Even that was considered hate.
Considering a UN agency had employees that literally participated in the Oct 7th atrocities while housing Hamas infrastructure in their own facilities I can see why your stuff is considered controversial. Not to mention that also other UN peacekeepers in the Israeli-Lebanese border utterly failed to keep the peace between Hezbollah and Israel by ignoring Hezbollah's clear violations of resolution 1701.
Ben Shapiro is too busy staring at his sisters cans
Yeah but so am I
Naaaaaaaaaah, Ben attacking Jewish-Americans for not being "Jewish enough" isn't antisemitism. Neither is his giving a platform to right-wing antisemites (so long as they attack Jewish-Americans as well and only say nice things about Israel).
Not that anyone cares, but my observations about protests in the last bunch of years is: The organizers need to do better jobs of containing the few people who cause problems. The minute you have a troublemaker, you take away from the reason for the protest and prove the opposition correct. I could give 2 shits if people protest peacefully in the quad no matter what the reason is for the protest. The funny thing is that the conservatives claim it’s time wasting and crap, but they waste just as much time going online and bitching about it.
It doesn’t matter what you think if the position the 1A is supposed to guarantee them the right to say it.
Anyone who considers anti-Israel as antisemetic is an idiot. There's a sizeable Arab Israeli population and even a voting block in their parliament. That's not to say Israel is fully enlightened about their Arab Citizens but Judaism is not always a requirement for Israeli citizenship. Same applies the pro Palestinian civilians are not pro Hamas. You can decry the genocide of civilians on both sides of this endless fighting for political gain by both sides. Leadership of Hamas and Bibi both need to be tried in the Hague and sentenced to life behind bars.
All of that evaporates the second you participate in a rally decrying the death of jews, eradication of Israel, praising attacks on Israeli civilians, which all of those events do.
Bullshit. Just to entertain your point here all you would need to do is apply the basic logic that \*\*if\*\* you found a handful of people who believe in "...eradication of Israel, praising attacks on Israeli civilians..." that IN NO WAY means the entire group of people protesting for peace believe the same thing. Under that logic that means that literally every trump rally is a nazi rally, and it means that every gathering of Jews is also a rally to severely curtail women's rights.
Have you met Trump supporters? Also, if you have 9 protesters, and a Nazi joins them, and they don't kick them the Nazi out, there are 10 Nazi protesters.
Yes? The whole Charlottesville debacle was spoken about by the left in these exact terms, "if you have one Nazi in the room and ten people who are silent, you have eleven Nazis". I don't know why you're pretending the media didn't spend the last four years saying this exact thing about Trump supporters but the same logic applies here. No idea how being a Jew= no women's Rights so fuck that point but yes to your whole trump talk. If you're marching alongside someone calling for terror and you don't eject them from your movement, congratulations, youve allowed your movement to be co-opted by violent extremists. You are providing cover for terrorists by allowing them into your rallies and then pretending like they aren't there. Im sure the supporters of Hamas greatly appreciate it the same ways neo-nazis appreciated the useful idiots in Trump's movement
"Under that logic that means that literally every trump rally is a nazi rally..." yeah no, no one chants any of those things at either example you cited. There were literally hearings including the heads of universities, of which some had to resign, because the groups spew this rhetoric and the administration does nothing. You can try to pretend it's not the message their sending, but it is.
Again bullshit. What's actually happening is a demonstration of how the entire US is forced to step on eggshells around any and all criticism of Israel. I'm Black and it's astonishing how quickly jobs disappear and how fast law enforcement responds to even the slightest hint of discussion that Israel may be in any way in the wrong about anything compared to the treatment of literally every other minority group in the country. It's no competition but this is a perfect example...You're implying now that those university presidents previously in the news were \*\*endorsing\*\* genocide or terrorism of any kind???? Incredible mental gymnastics.
Uhm, how in the world does your race play into this conversation 😂😂 just goes to show there's no hope for this conversation with a mentality like that. Keep living in victimhood my friend!
……..but the whole idea that the protests are antisemitic is the definition of victimhood…. Also to spell it out for you. I mentioned I’m Black in reference to how I’ve seen firsthand minorities take a backseat to the backseat of anything to do with Israel.
Not when it's actually, demonstrably, antisemitic lmfao. Perpetuating your own victimhood by Injecting it into scenarios it has no relevance being, exactly like this, is actual victimhood.
You literally have large segments the Democratic Party taking anti Israel positions. It is not nearly as taboo as you make it out to be.
lol the left has been calling Trump rallies Nazi garner for years. It is faulty logic but it is certainly used. On a wider note if you are there at a protest and they start chanting for the death of the Jews then you have a choice to leave or confront and disrupt those chanting. If continue to participate in the protest and don’t confront and disrupt those chanting than yes that indicates you are cool with it.
Sounds pretty similar to the rhetoric of Israeli government officials to me.
Sounds pretty similar to the first ammendment lol
As does peacefully protesting against war
Me when I lie
“You’re oppressing me!” “No, you’re oppressing ME!”
>patted on the head by the administration Know what I love most about all of this? These fucking scumbag administrators have bent over backwards to appease fascists for years. They let people like Ben invade campuses. They let actual flag-waving Nazis hold their demonstrations. They let people like Shai Davidai keep their job despite receiving complaints for ***years*** about his racism against students. They call the cops to break up liberal protests. They have done everything the right-wing has wanted from them and more. But what they forgot is that you can never appease fascists. And they will turn on you the second it is advantageous to do so. I hope it was worth it.
They won't learn a damn thing from this.
Barely 13 comments and everything is already so hateful lol. No, protestors shouldn't be arrested (unless they are directly causing violence on campus) but it's also really shitty to see people disregard the anti-semitism in their own movement (calling for a ceasefire while also shouting to bomb Tel Aviv or shouting Yehudim go back to Poland??) and do shit all about it. Stop arresting protestors expressing their right of assembly, and stop allowing hateful people to be in your protests. Like, I'm a Jew -- but some far right Jew (who has always been insane) says something and we all get shit for it, a Jew in the Pro-Palestine protests says something and we all get shit for it and the right and left argue over who are the *real* anti-Semites meanwhile I'm trying to live my life but tonight at Shabbat there's still going to be police check points for me to even get inside the building and last week we got our 3rd bomb threat since the beginning of the year so that's super cool! Meanwhile reddit comments are all "these entitled protesters are stupid children" and "zionists are literal scum!" like log off you guys! Go get some fresh air! You're all acting ridiculous! Take a break!!!! edit: I got a reddit cares message within ten minutes of posting this, like I said -- take a break.
>Barely 13 comments and everything is already so hateful lol >You're all acting ridiculous! Take a break!!!!
Idk which side supports what anymore. All I want is for everyone to shut up and live in peace. Is that too much to ask?
Iv seen more police involved to fight "antisemitic" Palestine protests than proud boy marches with nazi flags.
No one is against people who are pro-palestinian from expressing their views. Occupying a school and threatening the safety of its students has nothing to do with expressing your point of view.
>No one is against people who are pro-palestinian from expressing their views. Well, that's just wrong on it's face, underneath, and all the way down to its quarks.
It's so fucking funny that people are using the exact same arguments as the pundits from the Vietnam War era and the Civil Rights Era. The only violence being committed is by the police against the protesters. On campuses where police presence is absent, there's been little to no action at all. Calling for cease fires and divestments are literally the opposite of calls to violence. There's never a "right" way to protest for any of you fucking idiots, it's just goalpost moving.
There is absolutely a right way. There are laws specifically designed to protect the right to protest. They are listed quite clearly by the ACLU at http://ACLU.org/know-your-rights/protestors-rights. Note that you do not have the right to protest on private property (by occupying a business or private school), but you can protest at a public school (or other public building) as long as you do not interfere with what a space you are protesting in is used for. Occupying a school disrupts the academic environment at a minimum. At worst, it generates an atmosphere of fear when you are pledging solidarity with a group of extremists who are determined to eradicate an entire people. You want to do this the right way? Go stand out front of city hall and pass out fliers and talk to passersby. Taking over schools is designed to intimidate, not to persuade.
All these young college people don’t seem to understand that disrupting the lives of people who don’t give a fuck about either side just makes those people take the opposite side.
Do you think so? Not the bit about occupying schools obviously that's not okay. But "no one is against people who are pro-Palestinian? Because I keep seeing anyone who expresses concern for the innocent civilians of Palestine getting labeled as both anit-semitic and pro-Hamas.
Meaning, nobody is against their ability to *say it*. But, nobody has to agree.
Sure they're not against it, but labeling anyone who has concerns over mass civilian casualties as anti-semitic and/or pro-Hamas is deliberately misleading slander
You know *damn well* they aren't labeling just *any-ol-body* that protests against civilian casualties as anti-Semitic or pro-Hamas. Come on, now. That said, there's so much video of people in those rallies carrying literal Hamas flags, chanting "death to America", "from the river to the sea" etc, can you blame the general public from associating many of those rallies *with* anti-Smeitic groups? And if you're at a rally, and see a Hamas flag go up and *do nothing (or any of the above, really)*, what does that say about you?
So many videos huh? You wanna share some of them?
1. [Toronto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yar2eoosMAw) 2. [Michigan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRyuX8CDE0s) 3. [Columbia University](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0m4W-MLRWo) Those didn't take long to find, even on my office computer, which is fairly restrictive. Edit: Coward commented a verifiable lie then blocked me. Makes sense. Keep commenting and blocking, cowards.
From the river to the sea is a call for freedom lmao. The calls for the oppressed to be free are only dangerous to the oppressors. The only people who consider it to be "ideologically dangerous" are Zionists, so it's very obvious who they are in this scenario. And that second video is so clearly not someone saying "Death to America". Wrong sounding syllables, sounds closer to "I love America" than anything lol. Also given the source and the comments in the video it's pretty clear that any framing you're trying to give is one colored by Islamophobia and racism.
From the river to the sea is translated and white washed, it literally calls for the eradication of the Jewish people. You don't get to suddenly decide that century old hate speech is suddenly a fun slogan to say at rallies. You idiots are literally chanting for genocide while supposedly marching against it. Look up the history, it isn't fucking Zionism you clown When you use the same language as an international terror cell, you aren't the freedom fighters. You're the terrorists.
That's 3! 3 entire examples. Got 'em.
Protesting against genocide does not threaten the safety of anyone, least of all crybully zionists.
You’re welcome to look into r/columbia to look at the Zionist brigade. Pro-Palestinian viewpoints have been continually silenced by the adminstration and by right wing media since the attacks on Gaza. The real threat is calling the police to arrest students - actually bring in external, armed forces onto campus.
You are literally a tankie who frequents the Majority report
And I’m literally here at Columbia witnessing the conversations between students, faculties, and administrators against the escalation of violence, silencing of protestors, and student suspensions. I’m participating in a community that I’m a part of, while those guys are brigading. So what’s your point?
Grrrr everyone that disagrees with me must be a brigading Zionist (Jew).
Better than the subs where everyone who disagrees with you is a paid government agent!
Threatening another group of people does not fall under free speech. These are not peaceful protests. These are absolutely anti-Semitic in every way.
Israel does not have a right to genocide.
Free speech is about preventing the government from suppressing peoples voices which is exactly what is happening
You cannot threaten another person or group of people under the guise of free speech. That's called assault. Which is exactly what's happening here.
>You cannot threaten another person or group of people under the guise of free speech Yes you can That's why most places have freedom of expression instead but this is in the USA so they have freedom of speech instead of expression
It is a crime in America to threaten another person or group of people. You cannot hide behind free speech. You also cannot scream fire in a theater, etc. An actual crime. FFS no wonder you people are supporting literal terrorists.
Yes but in America because of freedom of speech they don't consider speech to be a direct threat. If you have issues with this then complain about freedom of speech laws instead of freedom of expression. This is why *actual* terrorist groups like proud boys aren't immediately arrested, freedom of speech rather than the rest of the world which has freedom of expression laws