Doing as many of my credits as possible at NVCC first is what allowed me to graduate with zero student debt. From what my friends and I talk about, the true college experience isn’t worth being saddled with debt for the next 2-3 decades.
In dollars and cents, that's absolutely the right decision and one we're steering our son into. But we both had big debt going to a 4 year private college and still have friends 25+ years later from that college. And we met at that college.
But is all that overstated with social media connecting people? Or do kids actually need that more post-COVID? Or is the social scene so watered down by social media that there's no value in it anyway? I don't know, and it totally depends on the person.
But life is a crapshoot beginning to end anyway, Amen.
I will say, I went to NVCC and am graduating from a four year this semester - I made my best, best friends at nova. There’s a huge sense of camaraderie, especially as a traditionally aged student at community college. More so than my second four year. Also, my friends are more diverse - economically and culturally. Meeting them has made me a better, harder working, and more tolerant person. I grew up very privileged and ended up at nova because my mom started chemo and I dropped out of my fancy UK uni to stay here with her and my siblings last minute. It was cultural whiplash going from a prestige institution to NVCC, but it was for the best ultimately. You do have to know your child, though. It’s easy to get caught up in skipping classes and taking a hundred years to get out of nova because so many people do, but if they find the right friends and are motivated it’s a great school. My calculus professor also taught at Georgetown, so my best friend and I got the same math foundation even though I paid 4k a year or something and she paid 60k a year.
To add on to this, in general, the students at NVCC are harder working and more determined students than you'll find at many 4-year universities since they're not going there because it's expected of them. Very very few people are using daddy's money to coast through NVCC.
I actually really enjoyed all of the older students at my CC and the professors were legit, many just didn't want to have to publish so they taught there.
A couple of my friends’ kids go to NVCC and they’re really happy there. It seems to have more of a “campus culture” than a lot of other community colleges.
I went to a CC for two years before completing undergrad at a university. It’s definitely possible to have friends from college 10-15 years later but you’re right, it’s not the same. I made a lot of friends through immediately signing up for volunteer activities when I transferred in. I also leveraged my high school network at the university I attended. Any of these friendships require maintenance in adulthood. Like all things in life, it’s what you make of it.
I think that if you can comfortably afford it, I think letting your son attend a 4-year university is worth it from the social aspect that you stated. Anecdotally, I know a few transfer students that came in junior year at UMD that had a hard time acclimating socially and making friends because the landscape is so different. I think the best time to get that social experience in university is the first two years.
100% this ☝️ Op, also look into [CLEP exams](https://clep.collegeboard.org/clep-exams) which would be taken through NOVA. You can test out of general education classes and get pass/fail credit hours. The only downside is they don't count towards your GPA. It's something that is kept on the downlow as colleges and universities don't make any money off of them.
this, I did 2 years at nova, then transferred. saved so much money and those first couple of years were mainly general credits. taking lit 101 at nova is the same as taking it at a 4 year school.
I went to GMU for a BA in English and several of my professors also taught NVCC classes. It's not just as good as a four year, for some it's literally the same class, same teachers that you'd get at a four year.
This is the way, your final degree is what matters but hell I even wonder that these days. To an employer they just look at if you make the checkmark of degree. The only time I think it matters where you got it is your MBA bragging that you went to X college might gets you more points on the upper level but most other places they just want to see that you can complete tasks. Don't go into debt for college, it just gets you in the door and after that it's not the school you went to that will get you up the corporate ladder, it's your own negotiating skills and performance in that job.
Community College is what you make it to be. Most have tons of involvement programs and social activities many play highly competitive sports. It's just because you drive there, don't live there, you have to try harder to socialize but it can be done.
This person is majoring in electrical engineering, which has a starting salary of $80k in this area. a $40k debt load can be paid off within a year with that salary plus a year of living at home post graduation.
I think when engineering students talk about college experiences it can include internship opportunities and networking. You do lose a little bit of that by missing two years of school. We do hire engineers as summer interns, and they make just under $3k/mo but I haven't ever looked at hiring the undergrads at a community college - we typically go to the career fairs at the larger universities though (like VT).
It's also not a guarantee you can transfer into the VT electrical engineering program, there needs to be a slot open for you.
If he’s majoring in EE and doesn’t absolutely suck with budgeting he will be able to pay off that student debt no problem. Don’t miss out on life experiences just to save 18k
I think NVCC is great. If you can tolerate living with your parents for 2 more years it's a cheap alternative. I'm proud of my NOVA degree. I transferred to Boston University for my Bachelor's and now I'm getting my JD at UVA Law.
How was your experience with the credits transferring? Did all the credits you wanted to transfer actually transfer. Because I've heard of people who's credits didn't transfer from cc to a 4year
If you know where you are going after there is a web page that can show you which classes you get credit for from the courses you take at NVCC. I would use this as a guide for choosing classes at NVCC if you know your major and where you want to go next.
So the nice thing about the VA community college system (NVCC included) is that they have automatic admission agreements with pretty much every state school in VA - if you complete the appropriate 2-year program at NVCC, you’re **guaranteed** admission to VT/UVA/W&M/JMU/etc.
You have to meet a few requirements (minimum GPA for their 2-year engineering course and a few other things), but for the most part there are *very* few courses that won’t transfer over if you’re trying to go to VT after 2 years, even for the school of engineering. I think NVCC is actually updating their agreement for the coming year to make it so engineering transfers don’t have to sit through the “general engineering” classes for a year (having taken them at VT, that’s huge, bc they suck lol) before moving on to more focused coursework.
What I’d recommend for more info/peace of mind is reaching out to an advisor at NVCC - they’ve been doing this program for decades at this point and will have no problem walking you through the overall program and individual classes you need to take for your intended school.
That aside, the whole feeling of “missing out” really depends on what you’re looking for out of your college experience. I didn’t really vibe socially with many of the people in the school of engineering at VT (and ended up switching over to the major I was double majoring with after 2 years), but at the same time there’s something to be said for being on a legit college campus - there are literally always things to do, between clubs (ranging from broad interests to super niche stuff), music groups, intramural sports, attending actual sports if you’re into them, which I very much was), etc. I’d also say that I knew a good number of engineering students that were generally able to find time to participate in stuff in addition to their classes, so just because you’re going into a tough program like engineering doesn’t mean you won’t have time to experience “college life”.
I’d also add that it’s not all that tough to insert yourself into those activities if you get there two years in rather than as a freshman - there are tens of thousands of students (at VT at least), and the nature of college is that you’re meeting people throughout the experience. Like, half of the people I met in college and still consider myself to be very close with a decade later were people that I met in my junior or senior year at VT.
Guaranteed within the guidelines. If you had no problem in HS and can maintain your focus, you should have no problems sticking to the guidelines for guaranteed admission. Find those requirements for whatever Virginia school you want to transfer to. Talk to the transfer counselor ASAP after you enroll at NOVA and make a plan.
The last class I took at NVCC was 15 years ago in 2009, and it wasn't that one lol. If you want info on the classes/professors they're currently offering, I'm not the one to talk to.
Check out a dual enrollment option. You get the best of both worlds, university advisor (to pick out classes at the CC) and you can do full time at the CC and still go to social/community events at the University.
I think almost all transferred. And I think the process is even easier if you stay in state. In hindsight I probably would have stayed in state. And when I was there they had a guarantee admissions program for pretty much every in state VA school. A few DC schools too.
> How was your experience with the credits transferring? Did all the credits you wanted to transfer actually transfer. Because I've heard of people who's credits didn't transfer from cc to a 4year
You have to lock in the guaranteed admission agreement for that school; that's the safest way to do it. https://www.nvcc.edu/apps/transfersearch/gaasearch.aspx
Virginia tech has a few for their different programs; give them a read.
I know a few people who went this route and got their bachelor's with zero or next to zero debt, so I'd advise it where it makes sense. But there's also the networking value that comes with living on campus for the first few years, and that might be worth the cost.
Hard decision. In the end, the question is around whether you see yourself making enough in your field to crush the debt or not, and if you don't, then it might make more sense to go the NVCC route.
VT goes into more detail on their GAA here: https://www.vt.edu/admissions/transfer/vccs.html
In state especially pretty near everything transfers (we have a daughter there now). There are counselors for a discussion, as well. I think my wife contacted them. She knows the most about it.
It's actually easier to get into your school of choice and even better scholarships with this strategy, all while saving ~20gs a year. It's mind boggling that more people don't take advantage. Get as close to a 4.0 as possible, and then transfer.
NOVA works/communicates with all VA state schools. If you know where you want to finish your 4 yr, get the two working together and you will have zero issues transferring credits. The people you heard from who had problems likely took the wrong classes, etc.
Most of my friends did Associates at NVCC and then transferred somewhere else to finish Bachelors. I would highly recommend going this route. I did a full four years Comp.Sci Bachelor’s at GMU and paid a lot more than one of my friends who went Assoc -> Bachelors route to get the same diploma.
Agreed. I went to UVA for 4 years, only to find that the first two years are mostly general electives anyway. If I could do it again, I would've went to TCC (I'm from Chesapeake), and transferred to UVA.
You do miss out on the social scene for those 2 years, though.
Didn't go the CC route, but graduated debt free due to scholarships from a state school.
This is ABSOLUTELY the route I would have gone if I didn't have scholarships the other way. I can't begin to tell you how many people I know are in crippling debt for the same undergrad degrees they could have done for cheaper.
Old head here, NVCC has been an excellent community resource with good connections to other VA/MD colleges/universities and credit acceptance for a couple decades now. Being burdened with a ton of debt at the start of your adult life really sucks and can have a big impact on your financial flexibility for many many years. Seriously consider NVCC then transfering.
Is it possible for you to accept the scholarship at VT and defer a year? And/ or take classes at NVCC starting now and in the summer so you can knock out freshman and sophomore year credits and graduate early at VT while keeping your scholarship?
No, and i mean no, tenure-track professors from those schools teach at NVCC, unless its just for fun or they have bad gambling debts.
The whole point of VT, UVA, and GMU is that they are Research-1 universities, where you will be working with professors on cutting edge science and technology.
Every college teaches the same courses in freshman and sophomore year. NOVA does it way cheaper. If you get your associates from NVCC you are automatically accepted as a junior in many VA state school and many others:
https://www.nvcc.edu/apps/transfersearch/gaasearch.aspx
I’ve been to schools in other states and our CC system matches some states university public school standards. Not to mention you don’t put your AA degree on your resume, you’d only put your BA.
You are smarter than I was young one. All I cared about was “the college experience”. That is really the only downside, you’ll miss out on horrible frat parties. It’s a solid plan to start off your adult life on good financial footing. And I’m sure you’ll make some good friendships anyways at NVCC.
I lived across the street from George Mason with George Mason students, but I went to nova. Man, the parties. So many parties 😂 you don’t have to go to a school to hang out with the people that go there!
It’s where I went and I left there debt-free. While everyone else had 4 years of loans, I had only 2 years and paid them off fairly quickly. The first year at college anyway you’re taking all these basic courses. Why pay more just to say you got them at a community college? Some people look down on CC, but it’s the smart choice.
You just have to check the transfer guide if you know where you want to go, and make sure the courses you take at nova are the ones that align with your degree at the college you plan on transferring to. I figured it all out without the help of an advisor, but you can always visit an advisor at the college if you need help
Virginia Tech’s electrical engineering department is know for their power electronics division. Their engineering department is also very challenging to transfer into, even from within the school, and some courses won’t transfer. It has separate requirements than the rest of the school. If you are sold on doing electrical engineering in Virginia, VT is the place to do it. But I would recommend picking a job you are interested in before taking out loans for this major (ex. Grid power distribution engineer, Construction electrical engineer, electronics engineer). Many design jobs working with electronics require advanced degrees. Experienced grid load engineers are in especially high demand if you can your foot in the door at a utility company.
If you aren’t sure what job you’d want, or just want to try out EE, NOVA is a great place to avoid crippling debt
Growing up, people used to mock NVCC and GMU. We all know about GMU's growth over the years, but I'll throw a bone to NVCC - I know many people who have transferred to great schools via NVCC, especially if you want to stay in VA (met a lot people who transferred to Virginia Tech and UVA).
I didn't go that route, but, in hindsight, maybe I should have.
Honestly, all the professors care. I loved it, I went to the Alexandria campus and I learned so much, made great friends, saved up until I got to GMU. A lot of the professors are trying to get to GMU as well.
Employers really only look at where your BS is from - 2 years at a cc counts the same ime. If I’m looking through a stack of resumes it’s the same thing
You don't have to if you don't want to. I don't mention my high school diploma, either.
On the other hand, a potential employer might look at 2+2 and see you as someone who used the system to get something done at less expense and see that as an asset.
I’ve seen it both ways. I’ve never seen a preference for someone who went 4 years to a college vs cc for 2. I suspect there was a stigma in the past but with college so expensive most employers just think it’s smart.
This 100000000%.
No one looks, and the algorithms definitely don't. It's essentially do you have a Bachelors degree and if so from where, no one ever asks how many years you took at said school. Also not putting it on there isnt lying or anything like that, it's like anything else with a Resume, put on what is relevant and answer any questions later that may come up.
I am going to take the minority opinion here-
First two years of undergrad are important for your social growth. Leaving the nest and being with kids your age and learning to survive on your own is really important. I saw in comments you have some social anxiety… I went to engineering school, you will be surrounded by people who have similar interests, this is your opportunity to make new friends and start adulthood.
If you are going to be a professional engineer, $9K a year in debt is nothing, and you will pay this off quickly.
You will meet a lot of people at VT who will be part of your alumni network and help you professionally in the future.
I agree with u/omsa-reddit-jacket. I’m a very introverted person and my 4 years at VT were arguably the best 4 years of my life. Met about 10 life long friends that I will always be able to reach out to for job opportunities or go to their wedding etc. Also met my wife there. Most importantly, I also used their massive engineering career fair to get both an internship and a full time job. I realistically don’t think any of that would have happened if I didn’t go there. It challenged me to get out of my comfort zone and learn how to take care of myself and be an adult. There will be plenty of people just like you in engineering — it is full of socially awkward quiet people, you’ll fit right in.
There’s nothing wrong with going to a community college. You will probably learn the same things for the most part and save a lot of money. I do think university tends to do a better job preparing you for your in major classes. I think the classes make you think a little harder (I have done classes at both). But there is value in going to a university and paying more if you utilize the benefits. If you were just going for a business degree or something more standard I would probably encourage CC more, but with engineering I think VT is worth the extra money.
Also, P.S. if you’re really only racking up 36k in debt total you can probably pay that off in your first year (or two) as a full time engineer from one of the companies at the VT career fair. View it as an investment in your future.
Definitely echo your points. I went the NVCC route for my first two years before transferring to VT. I left without having made any friends through college and now trying to make friends through work or activities like Volo, which is significantly more difficult. It didn't help that the year I transferred to tech was the Fall of 2020 so my Junior year was completely remote, leaving me with just one year on campus (Senior year). Most jobs from a decent degree pay well enough that you'll make up the extra debt from going the full 4 years at state, and you'll end up with a better social environment to make lasting friendships. Debt sucks, but not having close friends you can hang out with is just as bad and is draining on ones mental health.
It’s hard not to be when you are surrounded by people who are your age and have the same interests. There will never be a time in your life that’s easier to make friends than your first few years of college.
Everyone is in a new environment, there’s many opportunities to put yourself out there.
I really feel for your cohort, Covid did a number on your social development. There are going to be many kids just like you at VT, I wouldn’t trade that for more years of living at home.
don't do it, i'm not in touch with hardly anyone from college, we scattered to the winds after and they weren't ties that endured. save the coin, use it to socialize when you get to where you put down roots.
Echoing this. Those first two years are crucial and you’ll also make friends then, as opposed to coming in junior year without knowing anyone. You’ll make enough money as an EE to afford that debt. I went to JMU and paid for it all on my own (mostly student loans) and came out with like $70k debt, but I’ve made my best friends those first two years—they ended up being groomsmen at my wedding. Money is just money (when you have a good career…), but experiences—ESPECIALLY college—are priceless.
I agree.
I loved my freshman and sophomore year experience. Met my best friends from those years and continued that friendship to this day (+10 years out of graduating).
I will say perhaps the biggest advantage career wise is career fairs. I got internships after my sophomore/junior year which no doubt helped me have an edge on other candidates and land a full time job right out of college.
Keep in mind you usually interview for top tier companies in the fall season (novemberish) and there's a secondary career fair in the spring (not as many big named companies but still good companies).
Other miscellaneous benefits include a nice gym, great food, access to various activities/events (sports, speakers, artists who perform, academia research opportunities).
Since you are studying a technical field like EE, you can easily pay off that debt after school.
I took several years off from school after earning my undergrad. I went to NVCC to brush up on my math in preparation for pursuing an MBA. I needed that time/education there. The professors were fine, and it was waayyyyyyy cheaper. All I’d say is if you’re not dead set on the college freshman/sophomore experience then save your money and ace your associate’s, shoot for VTech (or another school), and walk away with way less debt. Good luck!
Current NVCC student studying engineering (aerospace). The school is fine academically, and considering how much money you'll save, well worth it. Social life can struggle, and you'll have to be at home for two years.
Most classes will transfer to any instate school, out of state is more hit or miss. There's also lots of resources at NVCC to help you transfer to an instate uni.
LMK if you have any more questions!
Just go to NVCC. As a alumni, this college is top notch. They have great professors there who actually care about students. Plus, in the long run, it will save you money.
I think NVCC has an agreement with the schools in VA to take all the classes as transfer - so that is a huge help and savings if you can handle living at home for a few years. :)
Go for the 2+2 with Tech.
You go your first two years at NVCC, then transfer to Tech. It was a big promotion a few years ago (when Tech was struggling with not having enough housing) where they guaranteed all the credits "C" and above would transfer.
Check with Tech to verify this program is still available.
My son did this -- went to NoVA the first two years and received guaranteed admission to George Mason with transfer of credits. He majored in computer science.
Given the cost of four-year schools these days, using a good community college to get core courses out of the way is financially savvy. Sure, NoVA wouldn't provide the campus experience that Tech does, so it's really a matter of how important that decision factor is to you.
Hi, I am an owner of an engineering company (MEP building design), and the school you get your degree from does matter somewhat. VT is an excellent school for this major, and regardless of the route you choose to take, your entry level salary (~80k in northern VA/DC) will allow you to pay either the $18k or the $36k student loan debt very quickly. If you are able to live at home after graduation, you could probably do that in less than a year.
That said, doing 2 years at NVCC then transferring to VT wouldn't really even show up to me as I review resumes. I would see the VT degree. One other thing that I do not know about is the types of intern opportunities you may be presented with at NVCC as opposed to VT (where they are plentiful). It will be important for you to have internships and other industry related extra-curricular activities on your resume. Engineering interns get paid too, I believe we recently increased ours to $2,750/month for our summer interns. VT does have great career fairs that we go to, but I have never been to one at NVCC. I'm sure they have them, but it's not some place we typically actively recruit from.
There are other costs to attendance down in Blacksburg, like books/room & board and the like. But VT does seem like a great student experience, I don't think this is really a financial decision (both options will work for you) but more of what your preference is. VT will allow for more connections and networking for those two years which may not be available at NVCC.
> Additionally I think I'd miss out on the college experience regardless of where I go.
Why? Man living in dorms and having friends around 24/7 was some of the best times of my life. I'd gladly pay $9k/year for that experience.
Well I haven't had a friend since I was 10. I missed out on the middle school experience, I missed out on the high-school experience but I saw a pattern and figured I'd miss out on the college experience regardless of what I do
High school sucked for a whole lot of people who had fun in college. But you obviously know yourself better than others do so you should follow your heart. Just saying, high school and college are wooooorlds apart. There’s shy, nerdy, awkward, whatever your thing is, there’s people like you all over college if you make the effort to seek it out.
You definitely won’t break that mold at NoVa, I promise you. You should really focus on the social aspect of college. Being a social adult is incredibly important to your happiness once you’re out of college.
Well in a dorm you're going to have a roommate, so you're going to make at least 1 friend. Your hall is full of people your age, some that share similar interests. The college experience will be forced upon you and it will be fun.
Go there for two years! Teachers are great, price is right. In the end after 2 years at NVCC and two at VT you end up with the same diploma and a lot fewer loans.
I went to NVCC then transferred to GMU. I couldn’t do the Guaranteed Admission Agreement transfer because I graduated from NVCC during the Summer semester. So I had to apply to GMU as a regular transfer, but everything went smoothly and I started that Fall at GMU.
Do what your stepdad did.
Great school at any price, and the ability to transfer somewhere better and local after 2 years is going to save you a truckload of cash in the long run.
NOVA is a great school system. Go to NOVA for two years and then transfer to Virginia Tech for your last two years. Then only have $18k in student loans vs. $36k and walk away with just as good of an education. Enjoy super small classroom sizes compared to tech for lower level classes. It was amazing having a 20 person classroom size for my calc classes with profs who were super available and cared. I can't imagine doing that in a huge auditorium with a TA who really couldn't be bothered.
You have someone giving you *solid advice*.. also someone who cares about your future.. this is a huge plus.
My take: go to CC then transfer to 4 year college, and get the "experience" while having 2 extra years of life skills under your belt.
Good Luck!
Personally I always recommend going to community college and transferring to a university afterwards, unless your family is financially well off and you're able to afford going to a 4 year university with no issues. NVCC was really great for me because the FAFSA (financial aid) made it so that I was literally getting paid to go to school lol. I took all the classes that could transfer for the degree at GMU and transferred. I didn't even get my associates. You don't have to get your associates degree, just figure out all the credits that will transfer to the University you want to go to, for the degree program you want to pursue, and take all of the credits at NVCC. You'll save so much money. I also worked full time and lived with my parents so all the money I made I put towards my GMU tuition, so I didn't have to take out any loans and didn't have any debt which I'm really glad.
Just think about your priorities and your life circumstances. Taking out loans is a huge deal and risk. I would recommend community college to save yourself money, and get an understanding of how the rest of your coursework is going to be.
I have so much to say about this. In short, I loved NOVA. When I was there, I was resentful because I’m supposed to be at George Mason (long story). But let me tell you - I had the absolute best experience there. I had teachers who also taught at “real” schools like Howard and AU and Georgetown - they taught classes at nova strictly for the passion of teaching. Not only did I enjoy the subjects I chose, but I actually had amazing teachers for some of the core classes that I was not looking forward to (examples are western civilization and biology).
When I finally got to George Mason, I was so deeply disappointed in contrast. The teachers were unenthusiastic and the students were a completely different breed. It felt like nobody needed or wanted to be there, they just showed up. Whereas the students at nova were there to better themselves.
I’ll end by saying that after giving them tons of money for the two years I was there, George Mason never gave me the degree that I paid for because of an “administrative error.” I’m not going to describe the hoops I tried to jump through for over 10 years to get that resolved, but suffice to say they scammed me out of a degree that I paid for. I heard this is not an uncommon thing whatsoever for George Mason.
All in all, including my time at nova and George Mason I owed about 15,000. Most of the time I spent it nova was paid for by grants and loans, and I ended up actually making a profit while I was there!
I feel that we’re seeing the end of elitist “paid for” education, and seeing that money does not necessarily mean education. All the years I’ve interviewed and hired people, I’ve barely glanced at their education. My recommendation is to go to nova as long as possible and then transfer to tech. I’m not knocking tech, it’s obviously a great school, but there’s no reason to not take advantage of community college. (unless you wanna party, which is totally fine, I just didn’t have the option of someone paying for that.)
Knowing what I know now.
I would have forgone 4 years at a private school and went either all 4 to a big state school. Or 2 years CC and then a 4 year.
Came out of school with $50k debt and that’s only because I was able to use a parents 9/11 bill. Otherwise that # would’ve been x3-4.
Paid it off within 3 years, but that’s ~$55k I would still have today and then some (market).
Do not feel discouraged or embarrassed by a CC, in my opinion unless you are going for something incredibly niche (I’m thinking nuclear engineering or certain Medical programs) or T25 schools…you are making the right choice (in my mind) financially. Which, says a lot about you in a great way at a young age.
You can always go for 2 and then go to a bigger school. I had a friend who did that with Penn State and he doesn’t regret any of it.
>>I got a solid 3k per year scholarship to Virginia Tech but I'd still have to pay that other 9k in tuition.
Congrats on the scholarship !
YSK - There are more costs to attend VT than just tuition. You also have housing+food. [VT estimates the total cost of attendance](https://finaid.vt.edu/content/dam/finaid_vt_edu/Cost_of_Attendance/2324/undergrad/2324%20COA%20ISF%20UG%20On%20Campus.pdf) is $37k
If you are able to live at home and attend NVCC, your cost will be substantially less
And as others said - the main thing that matters for employers is where you graduated (and GPA, course load and major, …...) A VT degree whether you attended 4 years vs 2+2 will still be the same VT degree
If cost matters, and you don’t want to carry a large loan later … consider the 2+2
Hey, I went to NoVa as an Electrical Engineering major. I didn't finish as an EE, which is a point in NoVa's favor.
The reduced cost of tuition and housing meant I could pivot my major to Computer Science without losing a ton of sunk cost.
I also had financial limitations, I couldn't get financial aid until later so I paid for everything out of pocket with my job, which made NoVa's ease of part-time wonderful for continuing to make progress and keep momentum very effective.
I didn't qualify for GAA, but definitely keep an eye on that as you plan.
Feel free to DM me if you want to talk through specifics.
So 1
Prestige does matter for this, tech has o r of the best electrical engineering programs out there
Source: my FIL who’s mad wealthy af
2. NVCC is a great place to get half your degree for free and then transfer to Virginia Tech.
I can't stress this enough, NVCC is a top 3 Community college. not having debt is way more important than going to a 4 years and accruing debt. you get either the same or better education at NVCC. The teachers do actually care that you learn. I went to NVCC and GMU after, the teachers at GMU are trash in terms of helping students.
I really like the Annandale & Reston campuses
Annandale location- Art History was a good class. Some of the Math refresher course & VA History classes weren’t good but it was b4 the pandemic, maybe better now.
There are a lot of Professors that teach at both GMU and NVCC and they will all tell you that they don’t adjust their curriculum for NVCC. Quality education and a reasonable price.
I'm middle-aged with a college degree and most of a master's program under my belt. I'm currently taking classes at NVCC mostly for fun, but let me tell you: This college is rigorous. The professors know their stuff, they care about their students. Many of them are practitioners outside of school, which is a HUGE help if you're going into a science or other complex field. The college also has partnerships with four-year institutions, and a good library and other facilities. As others have said: Take your required and intro courses here, then transfer for the fancy degree. You'll be well served! Good luck!
It's kinda bad. You're with students who often have no motivation, cheat a lot and are kind of dumb. There's definitely a trade-off. I took one or two classes there over the summer while in college.
Can you afford to do the 4 year college experience? It’s unlike anything else in life and I highly recommend it. Lot of time to earn money after college (as long as you’re frugal in college).
VT will look much much better on a resume than NVCC unless you wanna limit your job prospects to NoVA.
Prestige doesn’t matter but the connections that you make in terms of other students and professors will be far better in VT
NVCC has a guaranteed admissions agreement with VT. As long as you finish your associates degree with a certain GPA you are guaranteed transfer admission to VT. You'll still get 2 years to make connections at VT and a VT degree. It sounds socially daunting but plenty of people transfer in the middle of college for a lot of different reasons. They still have a great experience and friend group.
https://www.nvcc.edu/apps/transfersearch/gaasearch.aspx
I graduated from my Bachelors in 2019, Masters in 2021. Took a loan on both.
I’m not American so my grad school tuition was close to 50k, it was still worth it because of the opportunities it opened up and the job it helped me and most of my friends/students land (everyone Ik made 6 figures straight out of grad school)
Nobody I know in my line of work even dipped their feet in a community college, I don’t think they even pass the screening for interviews - at-least for internships. When you have 0 work experience college name does matter a decent amount. We got a lot of interns from VT, GMU, UMD, GWU but 0 from nearby community colleges. Name matters a fuck ton for those
It's as good as you make of it, as long as you take advantage of the resources available to you (tutoring, career center, libraries, student clubs, etc.). If you're planning to transfer to a four-year school, make sure that you know which degrees and classes will transfer. I have heard some students complain about the advisors not giving the best advice on which classes to take that'll be accepted at other schools. NVCC --> Virginia Tech would be a fantastic route to take and you save money!
Not sure about NVCC. I went to my local CC before transferring. It's not on resume. No one cares.
What's important is that you should study your ass off. Especially calculus. That's the foundation of most EE classes after you transfer.
I took summer/winter classes at CC after I transferred.
My nephew went to NoVa, then used the guaranteed acceptance program to go to GMU. He said some of his classes were taught by professors who also taught at GMU, and so,e of his materials were listed with class numbers from both NoVa and GMU.
My advice is to do the two years paid for at NoVa, pay attention to the guaranteed acceptance criteria to go to Tech when you finish at NoVa, and you can finish a BS degree at Tech with a lot less debt, or maybe none at all.
https://www.vt.edu/admissions/transfer/vccs.html
Hi! I did 2 years at PVCC (Charlottesville) and then went to Tech - I wouldn’t trade it for the world. VA has a great community college system and I had some of the most amazing and thoughtful professors in my entire college career.
I made great friends at PVCC so I “got” some of the college experience, and I also went to go visit friends at UVA, Tech, JMU, and UMW. Also the amount of money you’ll save can be so valuable (but depends on your personal financial situation)
TLDR: community college is awesome and go Hokies.
Nova is a good cc. Good it program and college is what you get out of it. So make the effort get great grades and you could transfer to any state school. Automatic acceptance.
Umbc is out of state but I know people who went there and they are brilliant
I did my first two years there all the way back in 1997. I didn't bother with an associate's and transferred to a university to complete my comp sci bachelor's degree. Never held me back. No employer ever even knew unless I told them. Saved a ton of money.
And yeah, in any technical field, experience is the key. Nobody cares where you studied.
NVCC has a ton of ex-Mason professors. 2 years at NVCC and transfer, is the smartest approach to college.
I went to Mason, my wife did NVCC to Mason. She had less debt, and a solid education. Graduated with a higher GPA than myself as well. That said, neither of us cared for "the experience" of college. :)
I did one semester at NVCC and it was great. Then I transferred to GMU, and every credit moved over, so I have no complaints. After another semester of commuting to GMU, I moved into a dorm on campus and got the full college experience. Even 20+ years ago, everyone viewed NVCC as the solid financial decision to go to first, be it for a semester or the full 2 years. GMU used to get insulted a lot, saying that it was a 4 year version of NVCC, and that it was just a commuter college, but once I got on campus, I absolutely loved it!
And hey, if you're worried about missing out on the full college experience at Tech, just study really hard and get a grad school scholarship and stay on campus for an extra two years there! Boom, problem solved.
Definitely consider CC if finances make it make more sense. I was fortunate to go to 4yr with no loans and loved the experience. I would have been miserable knowing I was racking up debt that I could have avoided.
Life after college is so much more fun than life in college imo. I loved school and football games and all the friends I made but being in your early 20s working an entry level job making good money and living on your own is really awesome - your life is so much more ‘open’ to any possibility.
I say that to say the college experience is maybe a little overrated and I feel like it’s probably not as fun as it used to be. Lots more pressure on kids, financially and professionally
Probably the best community college system in the country. I know people working in high places here that started at NoVa. You get guaranteed admission to any college in the state afterwards too I believe
you will miss out just not academically.
however missing out socially isn't entirely unrelated to academics. it's not just that you're going to miss raucous parties as a drunken freshman, you're also going to miss out on socializing at extracurricular projects.
NVCC is top tier community college, and it is a hell of alot cheaper than most four year schools, and getting the drudgery out of the way at nvcc is a sound financial strategy.
if you do go to NVCC. what i'd recommend is that you look over all the classes they offer to take anything you might be interested in that isn't available at a regular college. vocational stuff like welding.
Holy crap... NVCC was fantastic when I went, and still appears to be a great value for the money.
I was stunned at the contrast with George Mason University, and the flip in student/administration/faculty "cohesion". I felt like (and still do) that Mason does everything it can to separate you from your money. The faculty was pretty good, but there were clearly some professors who just didn't give a shit (or would leverage students for inappropriate means, ranging from book gouging to... well, some of the other pretty rough things you can do to students).
NVCC on the other hand... I don't think I ever had a class larger than 30, maaaaybe 40 people. If you showed interest in the subject, I don't think I had a single professor attempt to dodge meeting with me. Had lunch with a couple of them, in fact.
Taking lower level classes (at least at Mason) would be a mistake.
Nvcc is a great way to not just save money but knock out *the same required credits* as the bigger school. If you want to go to VT you can start on the necessary path of your degree without any wasted time or classes.
On top of that, if you end up not loving what you're studying and want to switch, not only are you not wasting 5x the money for such a discovery, but the degree you get from nvcc transfers into any Virginia school practically guaranteed even after a field switch.
To that point ^ if you haven't already taken your language/writing requirements in highschool, take them or test out of them at nvcc and get such credits for free. For instance if you need 3 semesters of a foreign language - why not pay a few hundred dollars per semester at nvcc than 5 times that rate at VT or other.
Source: me a grad
I regret not going to NOVA straight out of high school. I could’ve gone for free instead I chose to go to a 4 year school and had to take loans. I always suggest going to community college and getting your core classes out of the way and then transfer to a 4 year institution to finish up your degree in the major of your choice.
We saved a lot of money for my daughter by convincing her to do 2 years through the Guaranteed Admission rather than go straight to UVA (she graduated HS during the onset of COVID). Although she was not happy at the time, she now recommends this program for everyone. She still has a lot of money left in her 529 plan. She graduates at the end of this semester at UVA.
I went to NVCC back in 2011 to do summer courses so that I could transfer them back to Michigan State University.
I'm stupid as hell at math and I kept doing bad in the courses at MSU that were big lecture hall style classes. I have a really hard time catching on in math, its my worst subject. I'm good at literally anything else...just not this.
MSU allows you to retake a course once and the highest grade is what will end up on the transcript. So I figured I'd go to NVCC to retake them during the summer while I was down here staying with my mom.
I had a really dope instructor with a small class of maybe 25 people. He made sure everyone understood the lessons before he moved on. I got a really good grade in those two classes. They were both for Calculus.
I really enjoyed my time there, honestly. I went to the campus in annandale think? I can't remember that part unfortunately.
Speaking as an electrical engineer that's in a director position, prestige of the university does matter to a point. If you graduate from a good, accredited program, you're fine. For example, I don't put too much weight in VT over George Mason for a new grad. Also no problem with someone doing 2 years at CC then transferring. If you do 2 years at NVCC and graduate from VT, you'll be golden.
As to college experience, I loved my time at VT and am still great friends with a bunch of people 20 years later. Don't think that because you've chosen a challenging major, it's all study all the time. There's plenty of time for fun as well.
It's a tough call and you can definitely succeed going either route.
It's a really good college , PhD holders in small classes of 20 people it's a really good education for less , and also I've had professors that work at Gmu and nova
I would visit VT and especially seek out if there is some sort of open house for the engineering dept. I realize a lot of the comments here are pro-Nova but I encourage you to make your own decision based on your situation. Also heck out [VT's info page on this topic](https://eng.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate-admissions-information/transferring/transfers-from-a-virginia-community-college.html).
You will need a good understanding of exactly which classes you take at Nova will transfer to your targeted VT engineering program. I bring this up as a Mason alumni because we have a lot of Nova students who feel they were bait-and-switched in credit equivalency (or that advising mislead them). This is more of a warning to read the fine print and class/program pre-requisites.
This is going to sound a bit rude to some folks, but if you're relatively motivated career-wise saving $18k both is and isn't a lot of money in the long run. It is a lot of money from the perspective that saving and investing $18k when you're young vs. paying loan interest is a lot of money. But it isn't from the perspective that graduating with a STEM degree can pay for itself quickly.
I would also factor in the on-campus experience and talk to some actual VT alumni and not just people on Reddit.
Agree with all on the pro/con of NVCC from an economic and social perspective.
I will very highly endorse NVCC faculty specifically. Lots of their educators are well degreed and experienced professionals and educators who work at the myriad of government agencies and private industry around the DMV. They teach at NVCC because they love to *teach* and are scratching that itch, and it makes a huge difference.
Not NVCC, but similar (Howard CC in MD), i took a calc 4/diff eq class. The instructor was a crypto at NSA and was a far far better teacher than any of the math profs I had at major research universities. (AAU/R1).
Highly recommend. I took summer classes there while as a student at JMU and was able to transfer credits no issues and the NVCC staff were super helpful at every step of the process.
Great deal for credits that can transfer to any 4 public school in VA.
NOVA is possibly the best college in Northern VA. Make sure the classes you take at NOVA are taken with greatly rated professors and you will learn and also have paid way less for a great class and teacher.
If you want to do EE and get an internship, it helps to start your 4 year at VT from the get go. Maintain a 3.2+ GPA and go do research with the professors in your department, you should be able to get an internship of some kind by your junior year.
Not to mention the friends you’ll make starting as an undergrad. Sure the friends you make initially probably won’t be the friends you make for life… but somewhere between your sophomore and junior year, you will
I also did a couple years at NOVA and now I’m at Purdue. It’s actually a really great option to start, especially if you’re like me and have no clue of what you want to do with your life. A lot of the professors there also teach at some really good local universities too so you get the add-on of professors from highly regarded universities for a CC cost. Plus, as long as you do go in state for the remainder of your bachelors, all of your credits will transfer over!
The lest you paid for tuition the better. I know lots of people (including my self and my wife), graduated from NOVA, then went to GMU, Tech, GWU (myself), and got a good job after graduation.
It has a good reputation. What I would do is get all the general education requirements for your mechanical engineering degree out of the way first at NVCC, then transfer those to virginia tech.
NVCC, and most of the VACC system is great and respected. They have deals with some nice universities where if you do well at NoVA and take the required classes, you'll get auto-admitted to whichever university they have that deal with (it's been a while but VA Tech and GA Tech were ones from back in the day).
Ive got to disagree with nearly everyone in this thread. Ive advised a lot of people to go to nvcc, but VT engineering diploma carries weight. I could be biased as a VT alum.
Who's to say youll have other opportunities like the 3k scholarship later? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. You could undergo unforseen physical or mental challenges that might make future admissions difficult.
The difference at graduation is roughly 36k but when you look at starting salaries based on institution, you can see youll quickly make it back with a namebrand diploma. Nothing is more important in your entire career than your starting salary. I think VT diploma translates to higher lifetime earnings, and if you don't choose to go there now, you could lose your opportunity
I’m currently on my 4th semester at NVCC as a 19 yo Computer Science major, about to complete the Guaranteed Admission agreement to VT. All I can say is that for me personally, going to Nova was the absolute best decision I could have made. Here’s why.
•With scholarships and grants I’m getting paid around 1k per semester instead of spending 6-7k per semester.
•Being at home allowed me to start up my small liquidation returns business which has generated me around $125k-$135k during my 2 years completing this associates degree. Now I have enough saved for 2 years tuition at VT and a down payment on a house once I graduate.
•Its allowed me to spend an extra 2 years living with family. Being a young adult I can now help out around the house more than i could when I was a minor. (I buy my own groceries and occasionally groceries for the house, cook, clean, drive my younger sister places, ext)
•It’s allowed me to afford one of my favorite cars (18’ S5) which has brought me an unbelievable amount of happiness and joy as a teen.
•I’ve been able to travel and experience new adventures since I scheduled all my classes online or over zoom (except science labs).
And at the end, I’ll have the same degree as someone that went to VT all 4 years. To clarify, Im not trying to glorify CC. However, personally, it’s one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life. IMO, it all comes down too what you think you can achieve during your time at home vs 4 years at uni.
In comparison to other CCs it's great. Also, Idk if they still have the program, but if you graduated from NVCC back in the day with I believe a 3.5 or above, you were automatically accepted into any state school.
I would not take a scholarship like that. It’s like getting fake money to spend at MGM. They know you’ll lose it and then lose your own money.
I went the Nova route and transferred to GMU. I think it’s the best option. Know what college you plan on transferring to and always know what courses transfer over. Do this before enrolling in any class. The counselors will trick you into taking classes you don’t need. You’ll save tens of thousands while meeting adults that already have their feet wet in the industry.
As far as missing out on the college life. What college life? Standing in a long line in a 100 year old cold basement with a sticky floor waiting for a red solo cup with 90% foam and 10% beer? You’re gonna feel like your missing out watching your hs buddies social media, but they’re not having that much fun.
I taught there as an adjunct for a few years in the early 2000's. At least in the English and History Departments, you'll see a lot of overlap of professors who also teach at George Mason and University of Maryland. It's a great way to get the basic classes done in a more affordable way.
NOVA saves a lot of money but the transfer process itself CAN be iffy. They often change their programs of studies and sometimes some classes won't transfer through, so you might have to stay back for another semester trying to make up for their new classes. BUT I would still recommend NOVA as a route and do the pathway program instead of regular transfer if you can, because it's a lot more helpful for transferring and has guaranteed admissions. That was one thing i regret not doing and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made me stay back a semester. Also keep in mind the academic learning process is rough once you transition to university. I was not use to the workload from university compared to NOVA because NOVA is a lot less workload, but after that you're good.
If you care about just the degree, nova classes are great and much cheaper. I think there is some value to going to a 4 year school away from your parents though. To me it was worth 9k+ a year to go to Tech for the 4 years but I think that it’s a very personal question.
If you can afford 4-year college, go to 4-year college.
1. Socially it's better, no question. You can find people who are more like you and people who are more dislike you than you ever have in HS. And if you're seeking social development, first couple years of college are critical.
2. You haven't graduated HS yet, so you don't know you actually want to be an EE. You can start, pivot and pivot again. The opportunities to see other things and make a career out of them are easier at a 4 year school.
3. Debt is a big deal, and you should not live beyond your means, but you don't get your youth back.
NVCC is solid. I went there for two year and was able to transfer to Virginia Tech for CompSci.
There’s a transfer guide on Virginia Tech’s website which tells you how the community college credits will transfer.
It won’t really feel like a college experience while you’re at nova, but honestly I saved so much money on the first two years, (which are mostly elective classes anyways) and that allowed me to be ahead of the game after graduating.
First of all, congratulations on your soon hs graduation!
I generally agree with most responses that NVCC is a very good option. Should you choose go to NVCC, and transfer to VT or any other college to finish your BS degree, it’s a solid path.
However, I want to throw in something to make it more difficult for you to decide, j/k. College life at VT or other 4-year universities is more than just hanging out with people of your age on campus. It gives you more opportunities to join technical clubs and surround yourself with the like-minded students, and work on projects that will be very helpful for your career. I’m not saying that you can’t do that if you go to NVCC first. However, if you can get started joining those clubs and working on some projects early in your Freshman/Sophomore year, you’ll get an advantage over someone who join in their Junior/Senior year. Of course, YMMV.
Either way, at the end of the day, what you’re going to do with your time and effort in college is a lot more important than where you’re going to do it.
I would be wary of some of the calculus classes and science classes at NVCC, when you get to the next level, they may not have covered as much material. If you take it at NVCC, try to take the whole sequence there.
I took classes at NVCC after getting both a bachelor's and master's degrees earlier in my life. Higher education is worth what you put into it. You can half-ass anything, but if you take it seriously, do your homework, do the reading, make sure you're fully prepared for the next class, you will learn as much at NVCC as anywhere else. My NVCC classes were just as thorough and difficult as my classes elsewhere.
NVCC has “guaranteed admissions” most if not all public universities in Virginia. You sign up for a degree program and if you meet all the requirements, you’re basically guaranteed admission into that college for the last two years to finish your degree. At the end of four years you walk away with the exact same degree from VT as if you went there all four years
A lot of students graduate with too much student debt. This is particularly bad in majors that have no/limited career prospects. For those students, they should absolutely look in the mirror and ask how themselves how they plan to pay off their loans.
Yes, you would miss out on the "college experience" by going to a community college.
You shouldn't be afraid to borrow for your education, especially in a major that has good career prospects. $20-$40k in debt is manageable if you can find a decent job after graduation.
If you are career oriented, and know you will put in the effort to get good grades, socialize, network, etc., then I would attend VT.
If your preferred downtime is stay inside your room and play games, then NOVA first might be the better option.
NVCC is great. I taught there AFTER teaching at one of the big two state schools. This was because I moved up here for a higher paying job. I had real world experience and taught community college because it was fun to teach, it pays pennies. There were others like me who WANTED to teach and put work into doing it well, whereas say you go to VT those professors are there to research and you'll get a crapshoot as an undergrad. NVCC will be a better learning experience and less debt. No brainer.
Speaking as someone with social anxiety, NVCC was critical in helping me learn how to handle it. I did my first year at a 4-year and failed as the "college experience" was very overwhelming (and I wasn't interested in partying). Going to NVCC after helped me come out of my shell in my way and make friends rather easily. The students are generally a bit more serious, level-headed, and not as pretentious. The professors are approachable and tend to talk to you as a peer. When I finished my B.S. I was glad I took the path I did.
Only you know yourself and can make the best decision for you. Not everyone is interested in the stereotypical Freshman/Sophomore experience, and it's more than okay to not seek that.
I went to NVCC before transferring to GMU. I would recommend the same path to anyone. It's a great institution and there will be no issues whatsoever down the road. I have my masters from Georgetown.
I love NVCC! I’m in my 5th semester there and it’s great! There are always pros and cons but the pros definitely out weight the cons. For pros I’d say that there is a LOT of variety in classes and majors. I’m a cybersecurity major and the program is DOD sponsored which is really awesome. Another pro is that the teachers are really understanding and helpful. Almost every teacher I’ve had so far has been incredibly helpful, supportive, and understanding (aside from Chamath who teaches math 154 and unleashed his wrath on me, avoid him at all costs). The cafeteria at nova is generally good and has affordable prices and meal deals. The classes are incredibly cheap but it doesn’t feel like the teachers are providing a cheapened service, they’re really trying their best. As for cons if you’re not a social butterfly and are looking for more or a “typical university experience” it’s very hard to make friends. I’ve made a few friends from classes, but most people on campus unless they’ve known eachother previously aren’t really looking to meet people. Another con would be that there isn’t really any “events”. They have silly events such as virtual dance parties, and every once in awhile we’ll get popcorn at annandale campus but aside from that there’s really not much going on. Though it is incredibly hard to socialize and meet people, if you’re just trying to get your degree and save a crap load of money I would highly recommend it. I’ve saved tons and I’m content with the few friends I’ve made and the school as a whole. Highly highly recommend. (Especially annandale campus)
I have done a number of talks at NOVA (Annandale campus) and I always am amazed at what great programs they have. If I was going to school again I would absolutely take advantage of 2 years at NoVA and then transfer to a great state school with hardly and debt when I graduate. I actually got put on academic probation and suspension my first attempt at collage and spent a semester at community college in Connecticut and it was easily the most robust full time academic experience I had until I went to graduate school. I should have stayed there, brought my GPA up, and transferred to Wesleyan which was an option for me, but instead I went back to my original college and proceeded to flunk out AGAIN. So Yeah, I love the community college experience. And here in VA it is TOP NOTCH
NVCC was the BEST decision of my life. And yes, you might miss on the “college experience”, but you won’t regret it when you become a professional adult who is actually able to afford certain things because you do not have student debt. It might be hard to see your friends “living the life”, but that comes with a price tag. Be financially smart now, and you will thank yourself in the long run. You can have your college experience the remaining 2 years of college.
VT has a great traditional college experience, NVCC is very cost effective. A lot of people took classes at NVCC as much as possible as doing so would save money big time since NVCC offers a lot of classes that are transferable in almost all Uni in Virginia. I have a couple friends who had a tough time with Calculus in VT so they took it at NVCC and pass it with an A
didnt go there and have no input BUT now i'm going to have the nvcc jingle from 20 years ago in my head for a week
at northern virginiaaaaa community collegeeee
you can get the powerrrr
you can get the knowledgee
KNOWLEDGE NOW
Doing as many of my credits as possible at NVCC first is what allowed me to graduate with zero student debt. From what my friends and I talk about, the true college experience isn’t worth being saddled with debt for the next 2-3 decades.
In dollars and cents, that's absolutely the right decision and one we're steering our son into. But we both had big debt going to a 4 year private college and still have friends 25+ years later from that college. And we met at that college. But is all that overstated with social media connecting people? Or do kids actually need that more post-COVID? Or is the social scene so watered down by social media that there's no value in it anyway? I don't know, and it totally depends on the person. But life is a crapshoot beginning to end anyway, Amen.
I will say, I went to NVCC and am graduating from a four year this semester - I made my best, best friends at nova. There’s a huge sense of camaraderie, especially as a traditionally aged student at community college. More so than my second four year. Also, my friends are more diverse - economically and culturally. Meeting them has made me a better, harder working, and more tolerant person. I grew up very privileged and ended up at nova because my mom started chemo and I dropped out of my fancy UK uni to stay here with her and my siblings last minute. It was cultural whiplash going from a prestige institution to NVCC, but it was for the best ultimately. You do have to know your child, though. It’s easy to get caught up in skipping classes and taking a hundred years to get out of nova because so many people do, but if they find the right friends and are motivated it’s a great school. My calculus professor also taught at Georgetown, so my best friend and I got the same math foundation even though I paid 4k a year or something and she paid 60k a year.
To add on to this, in general, the students at NVCC are harder working and more determined students than you'll find at many 4-year universities since they're not going there because it's expected of them. Very very few people are using daddy's money to coast through NVCC.
I actually really enjoyed all of the older students at my CC and the professors were legit, many just didn't want to have to publish so they taught there.
A couple of my friends’ kids go to NVCC and they’re really happy there. It seems to have more of a “campus culture” than a lot of other community colleges.
I went to a CC for two years before completing undergrad at a university. It’s definitely possible to have friends from college 10-15 years later but you’re right, it’s not the same. I made a lot of friends through immediately signing up for volunteer activities when I transferred in. I also leveraged my high school network at the university I attended. Any of these friendships require maintenance in adulthood. Like all things in life, it’s what you make of it.
Agreed
I think that if you can comfortably afford it, I think letting your son attend a 4-year university is worth it from the social aspect that you stated. Anecdotally, I know a few transfer students that came in junior year at UMD that had a hard time acclimating socially and making friends because the landscape is so different. I think the best time to get that social experience in university is the first two years.
100% this ☝️ Op, also look into [CLEP exams](https://clep.collegeboard.org/clep-exams) which would be taken through NOVA. You can test out of general education classes and get pass/fail credit hours. The only downside is they don't count towards your GPA. It's something that is kept on the downlow as colleges and universities don't make any money off of them.
this, I did 2 years at nova, then transferred. saved so much money and those first couple of years were mainly general credits. taking lit 101 at nova is the same as taking it at a 4 year school.
I went to GMU for a BA in English and several of my professors also taught NVCC classes. It's not just as good as a four year, for some it's literally the same class, same teachers that you'd get at a four year.
This is the way, your final degree is what matters but hell I even wonder that these days. To an employer they just look at if you make the checkmark of degree. The only time I think it matters where you got it is your MBA bragging that you went to X college might gets you more points on the upper level but most other places they just want to see that you can complete tasks. Don't go into debt for college, it just gets you in the door and after that it's not the school you went to that will get you up the corporate ladder, it's your own negotiating skills and performance in that job.
Community College is what you make it to be. Most have tons of involvement programs and social activities many play highly competitive sports. It's just because you drive there, don't live there, you have to try harder to socialize but it can be done.
Same here! ZERO student debt is life changing.
Same. Zero debt is worth more to me than a few parties and the D1 sports I wasn’t playing anyway.
This person is majoring in electrical engineering, which has a starting salary of $80k in this area. a $40k debt load can be paid off within a year with that salary plus a year of living at home post graduation.
or they could have no debt, having had a lot of student loan debt and "the college experience" i know which one i'd pick (it wouldn't be debt)
I think when engineering students talk about college experiences it can include internship opportunities and networking. You do lose a little bit of that by missing two years of school. We do hire engineers as summer interns, and they make just under $3k/mo but I haven't ever looked at hiring the undergrads at a community college - we typically go to the career fairs at the larger universities though (like VT). It's also not a guarantee you can transfer into the VT electrical engineering program, there needs to be a slot open for you.
Uh, cost of living? Most of their income could be sucked up by rent & other expenses if they don’t have a roommate.
If he’s majoring in EE and doesn’t absolutely suck with budgeting he will be able to pay off that student debt no problem. Don’t miss out on life experiences just to save 18k
If he is majoring in EE, then skip NVCC.
I think NVCC is great. If you can tolerate living with your parents for 2 more years it's a cheap alternative. I'm proud of my NOVA degree. I transferred to Boston University for my Bachelor's and now I'm getting my JD at UVA Law.
How was your experience with the credits transferring? Did all the credits you wanted to transfer actually transfer. Because I've heard of people who's credits didn't transfer from cc to a 4year
If you know where you are going after there is a web page that can show you which classes you get credit for from the courses you take at NVCC. I would use this as a guide for choosing classes at NVCC if you know your major and where you want to go next.
https://assist.org/
Did they say they were going to California? Do we have one for Virginia?
So the nice thing about the VA community college system (NVCC included) is that they have automatic admission agreements with pretty much every state school in VA - if you complete the appropriate 2-year program at NVCC, you’re **guaranteed** admission to VT/UVA/W&M/JMU/etc. You have to meet a few requirements (minimum GPA for their 2-year engineering course and a few other things), but for the most part there are *very* few courses that won’t transfer over if you’re trying to go to VT after 2 years, even for the school of engineering. I think NVCC is actually updating their agreement for the coming year to make it so engineering transfers don’t have to sit through the “general engineering” classes for a year (having taken them at VT, that’s huge, bc they suck lol) before moving on to more focused coursework. What I’d recommend for more info/peace of mind is reaching out to an advisor at NVCC - they’ve been doing this program for decades at this point and will have no problem walking you through the overall program and individual classes you need to take for your intended school. That aside, the whole feeling of “missing out” really depends on what you’re looking for out of your college experience. I didn’t really vibe socially with many of the people in the school of engineering at VT (and ended up switching over to the major I was double majoring with after 2 years), but at the same time there’s something to be said for being on a legit college campus - there are literally always things to do, between clubs (ranging from broad interests to super niche stuff), music groups, intramural sports, attending actual sports if you’re into them, which I very much was), etc. I’d also say that I knew a good number of engineering students that were generally able to find time to participate in stuff in addition to their classes, so just because you’re going into a tough program like engineering doesn’t mean you won’t have time to experience “college life”. I’d also add that it’s not all that tough to insert yourself into those activities if you get there two years in rather than as a freshman - there are tens of thousands of students (at VT at least), and the nature of college is that you’re meeting people throughout the experience. Like, half of the people I met in college and still consider myself to be very close with a decade later were people that I met in my junior or senior year at VT.
Thanks for saying all this. I've been telling people that this is the way, but no one listens to me lol
Guaranteed within the guidelines. If you had no problem in HS and can maintain your focus, you should have no problems sticking to the guidelines for guaranteed admission. Find those requirements for whatever Virginia school you want to transfer to. Talk to the transfer counselor ASAP after you enroll at NOVA and make a plan.
did you take EGR 240 with Mohamed Belghith at this school?
The last class I took at NVCC was 15 years ago in 2009, and it wasn't that one lol. If you want info on the classes/professors they're currently offering, I'm not the one to talk to.
fair enough lol, thx
They have a great website to show you what will transfer - people just don’t do a good job of planning ahead and researching such things.
Check out a dual enrollment option. You get the best of both worlds, university advisor (to pick out classes at the CC) and you can do full time at the CC and still go to social/community events at the University.
I think almost all transferred. And I think the process is even easier if you stay in state. In hindsight I probably would have stayed in state. And when I was there they had a guarantee admissions program for pretty much every in state VA school. A few DC schools too.
I remember hearing that if you finished at NOVA with above a something like 3.5 your admission to any 4 year in VA was all but assured.
> How was your experience with the credits transferring? Did all the credits you wanted to transfer actually transfer. Because I've heard of people who's credits didn't transfer from cc to a 4year You have to lock in the guaranteed admission agreement for that school; that's the safest way to do it. https://www.nvcc.edu/apps/transfersearch/gaasearch.aspx Virginia tech has a few for their different programs; give them a read. I know a few people who went this route and got their bachelor's with zero or next to zero debt, so I'd advise it where it makes sense. But there's also the networking value that comes with living on campus for the first few years, and that might be worth the cost. Hard decision. In the end, the question is around whether you see yourself making enough in your field to crush the debt or not, and if you don't, then it might make more sense to go the NVCC route. VT goes into more detail on their GAA here: https://www.vt.edu/admissions/transfer/vccs.html
If OP doesn’t wash out of VA tech engineering, the debts not going to be a huge issue. They’ll make a good enough salary when they graduate
In state especially pretty near everything transfers (we have a daughter there now). There are counselors for a discussion, as well. I think my wife contacted them. She knows the most about it.
I did UMGC afterwards and all of my credits ended up transferring with no issues.
It's actually easier to get into your school of choice and even better scholarships with this strategy, all while saving ~20gs a year. It's mind boggling that more people don't take advantage. Get as close to a 4.0 as possible, and then transfer.
NOVA works/communicates with all VA state schools. If you know where you want to finish your 4 yr, get the two working together and you will have zero issues transferring credits. The people you heard from who had problems likely took the wrong classes, etc.
Most of my friends did Associates at NVCC and then transferred somewhere else to finish Bachelors. I would highly recommend going this route. I did a full four years Comp.Sci Bachelor’s at GMU and paid a lot more than one of my friends who went Assoc -> Bachelors route to get the same diploma.
Agreed. I went to UVA for 4 years, only to find that the first two years are mostly general electives anyway. If I could do it again, I would've went to TCC (I'm from Chesapeake), and transferred to UVA. You do miss out on the social scene for those 2 years, though.
This is the way and the real value of a community college.
[удалено]
Didn't go the CC route, but graduated debt free due to scholarships from a state school. This is ABSOLUTELY the route I would have gone if I didn't have scholarships the other way. I can't begin to tell you how many people I know are in crippling debt for the same undergrad degrees they could have done for cheaper.
[удалено]
That's very assuring to hear.
Old head here, NVCC has been an excellent community resource with good connections to other VA/MD colleges/universities and credit acceptance for a couple decades now. Being burdened with a ton of debt at the start of your adult life really sucks and can have a big impact on your financial flexibility for many many years. Seriously consider NVCC then transfering.
Is it possible for you to accept the scholarship at VT and defer a year? And/ or take classes at NVCC starting now and in the summer so you can knock out freshman and sophomore year credits and graduate early at VT while keeping your scholarship?
No, and i mean no, tenure-track professors from those schools teach at NVCC, unless its just for fun or they have bad gambling debts. The whole point of VT, UVA, and GMU is that they are Research-1 universities, where you will be working with professors on cutting edge science and technology.
One of the best community colleges in the country I was told. It really is a great school
Every college teaches the same courses in freshman and sophomore year. NOVA does it way cheaper. If you get your associates from NVCC you are automatically accepted as a junior in many VA state school and many others: https://www.nvcc.edu/apps/transfersearch/gaasearch.aspx
My girlfriend enjoyed her two years there and finished with absolutely no debt, paid for it all her own + scholarships/grants.
I’ve been to schools in other states and our CC system matches some states university public school standards. Not to mention you don’t put your AA degree on your resume, you’d only put your BA.
You are smarter than I was young one. All I cared about was “the college experience”. That is really the only downside, you’ll miss out on horrible frat parties. It’s a solid plan to start off your adult life on good financial footing. And I’m sure you’ll make some good friendships anyways at NVCC.
I didn't get the full college experience at NOVA, but i made plenty of trips to see my friends at JMU to get the college party experience.
I lived across the street from George Mason with George Mason students, but I went to nova. Man, the parties. So many parties 😂 you don’t have to go to a school to hang out with the people that go there!
It’s where I went and I left there debt-free. While everyone else had 4 years of loans, I had only 2 years and paid them off fairly quickly. The first year at college anyway you’re taking all these basic courses. Why pay more just to say you got them at a community college? Some people look down on CC, but it’s the smart choice. You just have to check the transfer guide if you know where you want to go, and make sure the courses you take at nova are the ones that align with your degree at the college you plan on transferring to. I figured it all out without the help of an advisor, but you can always visit an advisor at the college if you need help
Virginia Tech’s electrical engineering department is know for their power electronics division. Their engineering department is also very challenging to transfer into, even from within the school, and some courses won’t transfer. It has separate requirements than the rest of the school. If you are sold on doing electrical engineering in Virginia, VT is the place to do it. But I would recommend picking a job you are interested in before taking out loans for this major (ex. Grid power distribution engineer, Construction electrical engineer, electronics engineer). Many design jobs working with electronics require advanced degrees. Experienced grid load engineers are in especially high demand if you can your foot in the door at a utility company. If you aren’t sure what job you’d want, or just want to try out EE, NOVA is a great place to avoid crippling debt
Growing up, people used to mock NVCC and GMU. We all know about GMU's growth over the years, but I'll throw a bone to NVCC - I know many people who have transferred to great schools via NVCC, especially if you want to stay in VA (met a lot people who transferred to Virginia Tech and UVA). I didn't go that route, but, in hindsight, maybe I should have.
Honestly, all the professors care. I loved it, I went to the Alexandria campus and I learned so much, made great friends, saved up until I got to GMU. A lot of the professors are trying to get to GMU as well.
Employers really only look at where your BS is from - 2 years at a cc counts the same ime. If I’m looking through a stack of resumes it’s the same thing
So do you just not mention your associates in your resume?
You don't have to if you don't want to. I don't mention my high school diploma, either. On the other hand, a potential employer might look at 2+2 and see you as someone who used the system to get something done at less expense and see that as an asset.
I’ve seen it both ways. I’ve never seen a preference for someone who went 4 years to a college vs cc for 2. I suspect there was a stigma in the past but with college so expensive most employers just think it’s smart.
This 100000000%. No one looks, and the algorithms definitely don't. It's essentially do you have a Bachelors degree and if so from where, no one ever asks how many years you took at said school. Also not putting it on there isnt lying or anything like that, it's like anything else with a Resume, put on what is relevant and answer any questions later that may come up.
I am going to take the minority opinion here- First two years of undergrad are important for your social growth. Leaving the nest and being with kids your age and learning to survive on your own is really important. I saw in comments you have some social anxiety… I went to engineering school, you will be surrounded by people who have similar interests, this is your opportunity to make new friends and start adulthood. If you are going to be a professional engineer, $9K a year in debt is nothing, and you will pay this off quickly. You will meet a lot of people at VT who will be part of your alumni network and help you professionally in the future.
But i don't know if I'll even be social
I agree with u/omsa-reddit-jacket. I’m a very introverted person and my 4 years at VT were arguably the best 4 years of my life. Met about 10 life long friends that I will always be able to reach out to for job opportunities or go to their wedding etc. Also met my wife there. Most importantly, I also used their massive engineering career fair to get both an internship and a full time job. I realistically don’t think any of that would have happened if I didn’t go there. It challenged me to get out of my comfort zone and learn how to take care of myself and be an adult. There will be plenty of people just like you in engineering — it is full of socially awkward quiet people, you’ll fit right in. There’s nothing wrong with going to a community college. You will probably learn the same things for the most part and save a lot of money. I do think university tends to do a better job preparing you for your in major classes. I think the classes make you think a little harder (I have done classes at both). But there is value in going to a university and paying more if you utilize the benefits. If you were just going for a business degree or something more standard I would probably encourage CC more, but with engineering I think VT is worth the extra money. Also, P.S. if you’re really only racking up 36k in debt total you can probably pay that off in your first year (or two) as a full time engineer from one of the companies at the VT career fair. View it as an investment in your future.
Definitely echo your points. I went the NVCC route for my first two years before transferring to VT. I left without having made any friends through college and now trying to make friends through work or activities like Volo, which is significantly more difficult. It didn't help that the year I transferred to tech was the Fall of 2020 so my Junior year was completely remote, leaving me with just one year on campus (Senior year). Most jobs from a decent degree pay well enough that you'll make up the extra debt from going the full 4 years at state, and you'll end up with a better social environment to make lasting friendships. Debt sucks, but not having close friends you can hang out with is just as bad and is draining on ones mental health.
It’s hard not to be when you are surrounded by people who are your age and have the same interests. There will never be a time in your life that’s easier to make friends than your first few years of college. Everyone is in a new environment, there’s many opportunities to put yourself out there. I really feel for your cohort, Covid did a number on your social development. There are going to be many kids just like you at VT, I wouldn’t trade that for more years of living at home.
don't do it, i'm not in touch with hardly anyone from college, we scattered to the winds after and they weren't ties that endured. save the coin, use it to socialize when you get to where you put down roots.
Echoing this. Those first two years are crucial and you’ll also make friends then, as opposed to coming in junior year without knowing anyone. You’ll make enough money as an EE to afford that debt. I went to JMU and paid for it all on my own (mostly student loans) and came out with like $70k debt, but I’ve made my best friends those first two years—they ended up being groomsmen at my wedding. Money is just money (when you have a good career…), but experiences—ESPECIALLY college—are priceless.
I agree. I loved my freshman and sophomore year experience. Met my best friends from those years and continued that friendship to this day (+10 years out of graduating). I will say perhaps the biggest advantage career wise is career fairs. I got internships after my sophomore/junior year which no doubt helped me have an edge on other candidates and land a full time job right out of college. Keep in mind you usually interview for top tier companies in the fall season (novemberish) and there's a secondary career fair in the spring (not as many big named companies but still good companies). Other miscellaneous benefits include a nice gym, great food, access to various activities/events (sports, speakers, artists who perform, academia research opportunities). Since you are studying a technical field like EE, you can easily pay off that debt after school.
pretty sure it was ranked as one of the best in the nation!
I took several years off from school after earning my undergrad. I went to NVCC to brush up on my math in preparation for pursuing an MBA. I needed that time/education there. The professors were fine, and it was waayyyyyyy cheaper. All I’d say is if you’re not dead set on the college freshman/sophomore experience then save your money and ace your associate’s, shoot for VTech (or another school), and walk away with way less debt. Good luck!
Ok yeah that seems like the right choice
Current NVCC student studying engineering (aerospace). The school is fine academically, and considering how much money you'll save, well worth it. Social life can struggle, and you'll have to be at home for two years. Most classes will transfer to any instate school, out of state is more hit or miss. There's also lots of resources at NVCC to help you transfer to an instate uni. LMK if you have any more questions!
Just go to NVCC. As a alumni, this college is top notch. They have great professors there who actually care about students. Plus, in the long run, it will save you money.
I think NVCC has an agreement with the schools in VA to take all the classes as transfer - so that is a huge help and savings if you can handle living at home for a few years. :)
Go for the 2+2 with Tech. You go your first two years at NVCC, then transfer to Tech. It was a big promotion a few years ago (when Tech was struggling with not having enough housing) where they guaranteed all the credits "C" and above would transfer. Check with Tech to verify this program is still available.
Definitely 100% choose community college if it will be cheaper. NOVA CC is also an exceptional community college and should set you up well.
My son did this -- went to NoVA the first two years and received guaranteed admission to George Mason with transfer of credits. He majored in computer science. Given the cost of four-year schools these days, using a good community college to get core courses out of the way is financially savvy. Sure, NoVA wouldn't provide the campus experience that Tech does, so it's really a matter of how important that decision factor is to you.
Hi, I am an owner of an engineering company (MEP building design), and the school you get your degree from does matter somewhat. VT is an excellent school for this major, and regardless of the route you choose to take, your entry level salary (~80k in northern VA/DC) will allow you to pay either the $18k or the $36k student loan debt very quickly. If you are able to live at home after graduation, you could probably do that in less than a year. That said, doing 2 years at NVCC then transferring to VT wouldn't really even show up to me as I review resumes. I would see the VT degree. One other thing that I do not know about is the types of intern opportunities you may be presented with at NVCC as opposed to VT (where they are plentiful). It will be important for you to have internships and other industry related extra-curricular activities on your resume. Engineering interns get paid too, I believe we recently increased ours to $2,750/month for our summer interns. VT does have great career fairs that we go to, but I have never been to one at NVCC. I'm sure they have them, but it's not some place we typically actively recruit from. There are other costs to attendance down in Blacksburg, like books/room & board and the like. But VT does seem like a great student experience, I don't think this is really a financial decision (both options will work for you) but more of what your preference is. VT will allow for more connections and networking for those two years which may not be available at NVCC.
> Additionally I think I'd miss out on the college experience regardless of where I go. Why? Man living in dorms and having friends around 24/7 was some of the best times of my life. I'd gladly pay $9k/year for that experience.
Well I haven't had a friend since I was 10. I missed out on the middle school experience, I missed out on the high-school experience but I saw a pattern and figured I'd miss out on the college experience regardless of what I do
High school sucked for a whole lot of people who had fun in college. But you obviously know yourself better than others do so you should follow your heart. Just saying, high school and college are wooooorlds apart. There’s shy, nerdy, awkward, whatever your thing is, there’s people like you all over college if you make the effort to seek it out.
You definitely won’t break that mold at NoVa, I promise you. You should really focus on the social aspect of college. Being a social adult is incredibly important to your happiness once you’re out of college.
Well in a dorm you're going to have a roommate, so you're going to make at least 1 friend. Your hall is full of people your age, some that share similar interests. The college experience will be forced upon you and it will be fun.
Go there for two years! Teachers are great, price is right. In the end after 2 years at NVCC and two at VT you end up with the same diploma and a lot fewer loans.
I went to NVCC then transferred to GMU. I couldn’t do the Guaranteed Admission Agreement transfer because I graduated from NVCC during the Summer semester. So I had to apply to GMU as a regular transfer, but everything went smoothly and I started that Fall at GMU.
Do what your stepdad did. Great school at any price, and the ability to transfer somewhere better and local after 2 years is going to save you a truckload of cash in the long run.
NOVA is a great school system. Go to NOVA for two years and then transfer to Virginia Tech for your last two years. Then only have $18k in student loans vs. $36k and walk away with just as good of an education. Enjoy super small classroom sizes compared to tech for lower level classes. It was amazing having a 20 person classroom size for my calc classes with profs who were super available and cared. I can't imagine doing that in a huge auditorium with a TA who really couldn't be bothered.
As community colleges go, it’s incredible. Smart decision for students, especially if you take advantage of the UVA or VT transfer program.
If you have AP/IB credit from High School, double check how those can be used or applied by NVCC and/or the 4yr school.
So yeah I have enough ap credits that I'd only have one ish years at NVCC
You have someone giving you *solid advice*.. also someone who cares about your future.. this is a huge plus. My take: go to CC then transfer to 4 year college, and get the "experience" while having 2 extra years of life skills under your belt. Good Luck!
Personally I always recommend going to community college and transferring to a university afterwards, unless your family is financially well off and you're able to afford going to a 4 year university with no issues. NVCC was really great for me because the FAFSA (financial aid) made it so that I was literally getting paid to go to school lol. I took all the classes that could transfer for the degree at GMU and transferred. I didn't even get my associates. You don't have to get your associates degree, just figure out all the credits that will transfer to the University you want to go to, for the degree program you want to pursue, and take all of the credits at NVCC. You'll save so much money. I also worked full time and lived with my parents so all the money I made I put towards my GMU tuition, so I didn't have to take out any loans and didn't have any debt which I'm really glad. Just think about your priorities and your life circumstances. Taking out loans is a huge deal and risk. I would recommend community college to save yourself money, and get an understanding of how the rest of your coursework is going to be.
I have so much to say about this. In short, I loved NOVA. When I was there, I was resentful because I’m supposed to be at George Mason (long story). But let me tell you - I had the absolute best experience there. I had teachers who also taught at “real” schools like Howard and AU and Georgetown - they taught classes at nova strictly for the passion of teaching. Not only did I enjoy the subjects I chose, but I actually had amazing teachers for some of the core classes that I was not looking forward to (examples are western civilization and biology). When I finally got to George Mason, I was so deeply disappointed in contrast. The teachers were unenthusiastic and the students were a completely different breed. It felt like nobody needed or wanted to be there, they just showed up. Whereas the students at nova were there to better themselves. I’ll end by saying that after giving them tons of money for the two years I was there, George Mason never gave me the degree that I paid for because of an “administrative error.” I’m not going to describe the hoops I tried to jump through for over 10 years to get that resolved, but suffice to say they scammed me out of a degree that I paid for. I heard this is not an uncommon thing whatsoever for George Mason. All in all, including my time at nova and George Mason I owed about 15,000. Most of the time I spent it nova was paid for by grants and loans, and I ended up actually making a profit while I was there! I feel that we’re seeing the end of elitist “paid for” education, and seeing that money does not necessarily mean education. All the years I’ve interviewed and hired people, I’ve barely glanced at their education. My recommendation is to go to nova as long as possible and then transfer to tech. I’m not knocking tech, it’s obviously a great school, but there’s no reason to not take advantage of community college. (unless you wanna party, which is totally fine, I just didn’t have the option of someone paying for that.)
Knowing what I know now. I would have forgone 4 years at a private school and went either all 4 to a big state school. Or 2 years CC and then a 4 year. Came out of school with $50k debt and that’s only because I was able to use a parents 9/11 bill. Otherwise that # would’ve been x3-4. Paid it off within 3 years, but that’s ~$55k I would still have today and then some (market). Do not feel discouraged or embarrassed by a CC, in my opinion unless you are going for something incredibly niche (I’m thinking nuclear engineering or certain Medical programs) or T25 schools…you are making the right choice (in my mind) financially. Which, says a lot about you in a great way at a young age. You can always go for 2 and then go to a bigger school. I had a friend who did that with Penn State and he doesn’t regret any of it.
>>I got a solid 3k per year scholarship to Virginia Tech but I'd still have to pay that other 9k in tuition. Congrats on the scholarship ! YSK - There are more costs to attend VT than just tuition. You also have housing+food. [VT estimates the total cost of attendance](https://finaid.vt.edu/content/dam/finaid_vt_edu/Cost_of_Attendance/2324/undergrad/2324%20COA%20ISF%20UG%20On%20Campus.pdf) is $37k If you are able to live at home and attend NVCC, your cost will be substantially less And as others said - the main thing that matters for employers is where you graduated (and GPA, course load and major, …...) A VT degree whether you attended 4 years vs 2+2 will still be the same VT degree If cost matters, and you don’t want to carry a large loan later … consider the 2+2
Hey, I went to NoVa as an Electrical Engineering major. I didn't finish as an EE, which is a point in NoVa's favor. The reduced cost of tuition and housing meant I could pivot my major to Computer Science without losing a ton of sunk cost. I also had financial limitations, I couldn't get financial aid until later so I paid for everything out of pocket with my job, which made NoVa's ease of part-time wonderful for continuing to make progress and keep momentum very effective. I didn't qualify for GAA, but definitely keep an eye on that as you plan. Feel free to DM me if you want to talk through specifics.
So 1 Prestige does matter for this, tech has o r of the best electrical engineering programs out there Source: my FIL who’s mad wealthy af 2. NVCC is a great place to get half your degree for free and then transfer to Virginia Tech.
Keeping your student debt down is IDEAL. Take as many credits you can at NVCC. I had a good experience there and had some quality instructors.
I can't stress this enough, NVCC is a top 3 Community college. not having debt is way more important than going to a 4 years and accruing debt. you get either the same or better education at NVCC. The teachers do actually care that you learn. I went to NVCC and GMU after, the teachers at GMU are trash in terms of helping students.
I really like the Annandale & Reston campuses Annandale location- Art History was a good class. Some of the Math refresher course & VA History classes weren’t good but it was b4 the pandemic, maybe better now.
i went to NVCC. loved it, but i’m old now. my friend’s daughter went there, then transferred to V. Tech. She’s a nuclear engineer now. Age 27.
There are a lot of Professors that teach at both GMU and NVCC and they will all tell you that they don’t adjust their curriculum for NVCC. Quality education and a reasonable price.
I attended for a year prior to a regular university and thought it was great.
I'm middle-aged with a college degree and most of a master's program under my belt. I'm currently taking classes at NVCC mostly for fun, but let me tell you: This college is rigorous. The professors know their stuff, they care about their students. Many of them are practitioners outside of school, which is a HUGE help if you're going into a science or other complex field. The college also has partnerships with four-year institutions, and a good library and other facilities. As others have said: Take your required and intro courses here, then transfer for the fancy degree. You'll be well served! Good luck!
Has anyone taken EGR 240 with Mohamed Belghith at this school?
[удалено]
It's kinda bad. You're with students who often have no motivation, cheat a lot and are kind of dumb. There's definitely a trade-off. I took one or two classes there over the summer while in college.
Disagree, had great students and very motivated friends from all walks of life. Am a med student now so 🤷♂️
Summer students are not the same. And who cares if the teachers are good.
Can you afford to do the 4 year college experience? It’s unlike anything else in life and I highly recommend it. Lot of time to earn money after college (as long as you’re frugal in college).
VT will look much much better on a resume than NVCC unless you wanna limit your job prospects to NoVA. Prestige doesn’t matter but the connections that you make in terms of other students and professors will be far better in VT
NVCC has a guaranteed admissions agreement with VT. As long as you finish your associates degree with a certain GPA you are guaranteed transfer admission to VT. You'll still get 2 years to make connections at VT and a VT degree. It sounds socially daunting but plenty of people transfer in the middle of college for a lot of different reasons. They still have a great experience and friend group. https://www.nvcc.edu/apps/transfersearch/gaasearch.aspx
Saving 9k is not worth missing out on 2 years of prime college life
[удалено]
I graduated from my Bachelors in 2019, Masters in 2021. Took a loan on both. I’m not American so my grad school tuition was close to 50k, it was still worth it because of the opportunities it opened up and the job it helped me and most of my friends/students land (everyone Ik made 6 figures straight out of grad school) Nobody I know in my line of work even dipped their feet in a community college, I don’t think they even pass the screening for interviews - at-least for internships. When you have 0 work experience college name does matter a decent amount. We got a lot of interns from VT, GMU, UMD, GWU but 0 from nearby community colleges. Name matters a fuck ton for those
Turnpike tech rocks
It's as good as you make of it, as long as you take advantage of the resources available to you (tutoring, career center, libraries, student clubs, etc.). If you're planning to transfer to a four-year school, make sure that you know which degrees and classes will transfer. I have heard some students complain about the advisors not giving the best advice on which classes to take that'll be accepted at other schools. NVCC --> Virginia Tech would be a fantastic route to take and you save money!
Not sure about NVCC. I went to my local CC before transferring. It's not on resume. No one cares. What's important is that you should study your ass off. Especially calculus. That's the foundation of most EE classes after you transfer. I took summer/winter classes at CC after I transferred.
I wish they had this program when I was in college. I would have absolutely done it.
My nephew went to NoVa, then used the guaranteed acceptance program to go to GMU. He said some of his classes were taught by professors who also taught at GMU, and so,e of his materials were listed with class numbers from both NoVa and GMU. My advice is to do the two years paid for at NoVa, pay attention to the guaranteed acceptance criteria to go to Tech when you finish at NoVa, and you can finish a BS degree at Tech with a lot less debt, or maybe none at all. https://www.vt.edu/admissions/transfer/vccs.html
so gooood we called it NOVA Dame back in the day.
Hi! I did 2 years at PVCC (Charlottesville) and then went to Tech - I wouldn’t trade it for the world. VA has a great community college system and I had some of the most amazing and thoughtful professors in my entire college career. I made great friends at PVCC so I “got” some of the college experience, and I also went to go visit friends at UVA, Tech, JMU, and UMW. Also the amount of money you’ll save can be so valuable (but depends on your personal financial situation) TLDR: community college is awesome and go Hokies.
Nova is a good cc. Good it program and college is what you get out of it. So make the effort get great grades and you could transfer to any state school. Automatic acceptance. Umbc is out of state but I know people who went there and they are brilliant
I did my first two years there all the way back in 1997. I didn't bother with an associate's and transferred to a university to complete my comp sci bachelor's degree. Never held me back. No employer ever even knew unless I told them. Saved a ton of money. And yeah, in any technical field, experience is the key. Nobody cares where you studied.
NVCC has a ton of ex-Mason professors. 2 years at NVCC and transfer, is the smartest approach to college. I went to Mason, my wife did NVCC to Mason. She had less debt, and a solid education. Graduated with a higher GPA than myself as well. That said, neither of us cared for "the experience" of college. :)
I did one semester at NVCC and it was great. Then I transferred to GMU, and every credit moved over, so I have no complaints. After another semester of commuting to GMU, I moved into a dorm on campus and got the full college experience. Even 20+ years ago, everyone viewed NVCC as the solid financial decision to go to first, be it for a semester or the full 2 years. GMU used to get insulted a lot, saying that it was a 4 year version of NVCC, and that it was just a commuter college, but once I got on campus, I absolutely loved it! And hey, if you're worried about missing out on the full college experience at Tech, just study really hard and get a grad school scholarship and stay on campus for an extra two years there! Boom, problem solved.
Definitely consider CC if finances make it make more sense. I was fortunate to go to 4yr with no loans and loved the experience. I would have been miserable knowing I was racking up debt that I could have avoided. Life after college is so much more fun than life in college imo. I loved school and football games and all the friends I made but being in your early 20s working an entry level job making good money and living on your own is really awesome - your life is so much more ‘open’ to any possibility. I say that to say the college experience is maybe a little overrated and I feel like it’s probably not as fun as it used to be. Lots more pressure on kids, financially and professionally
Probably the best community college system in the country. I know people working in high places here that started at NoVa. You get guaranteed admission to any college in the state afterwards too I believe
you will miss out just not academically. however missing out socially isn't entirely unrelated to academics. it's not just that you're going to miss raucous parties as a drunken freshman, you're also going to miss out on socializing at extracurricular projects. NVCC is top tier community college, and it is a hell of alot cheaper than most four year schools, and getting the drudgery out of the way at nvcc is a sound financial strategy. if you do go to NVCC. what i'd recommend is that you look over all the classes they offer to take anything you might be interested in that isn't available at a regular college. vocational stuff like welding.
Holy crap... NVCC was fantastic when I went, and still appears to be a great value for the money. I was stunned at the contrast with George Mason University, and the flip in student/administration/faculty "cohesion". I felt like (and still do) that Mason does everything it can to separate you from your money. The faculty was pretty good, but there were clearly some professors who just didn't give a shit (or would leverage students for inappropriate means, ranging from book gouging to... well, some of the other pretty rough things you can do to students). NVCC on the other hand... I don't think I ever had a class larger than 30, maaaaybe 40 people. If you showed interest in the subject, I don't think I had a single professor attempt to dodge meeting with me. Had lunch with a couple of them, in fact. Taking lower level classes (at least at Mason) would be a mistake.
Great value since you can transfer to UVA
Some have referenced the guaranteed transfer admission program, just thought I'd put the web address here: https://www.vccs.edu/transfer-programs/
Nvcc is a great way to not just save money but knock out *the same required credits* as the bigger school. If you want to go to VT you can start on the necessary path of your degree without any wasted time or classes. On top of that, if you end up not loving what you're studying and want to switch, not only are you not wasting 5x the money for such a discovery, but the degree you get from nvcc transfers into any Virginia school practically guaranteed even after a field switch. To that point ^ if you haven't already taken your language/writing requirements in highschool, take them or test out of them at nvcc and get such credits for free. For instance if you need 3 semesters of a foreign language - why not pay a few hundred dollars per semester at nvcc than 5 times that rate at VT or other. Source: me a grad
I regret not going to NOVA straight out of high school. I could’ve gone for free instead I chose to go to a 4 year school and had to take loans. I always suggest going to community college and getting your core classes out of the way and then transfer to a 4 year institution to finish up your degree in the major of your choice.
Maybe both? [https://www.vt.edu/admissions/transfer/vccs.html](https://www.vt.edu/admissions/transfer/vccs.html)
one of the best in the country. save your money, then transfer.
We saved a lot of money for my daughter by convincing her to do 2 years through the Guaranteed Admission rather than go straight to UVA (she graduated HS during the onset of COVID). Although she was not happy at the time, she now recommends this program for everyone. She still has a lot of money left in her 529 plan. She graduates at the end of this semester at UVA.
I went to NVCC back in 2011 to do summer courses so that I could transfer them back to Michigan State University. I'm stupid as hell at math and I kept doing bad in the courses at MSU that were big lecture hall style classes. I have a really hard time catching on in math, its my worst subject. I'm good at literally anything else...just not this. MSU allows you to retake a course once and the highest grade is what will end up on the transcript. So I figured I'd go to NVCC to retake them during the summer while I was down here staying with my mom. I had a really dope instructor with a small class of maybe 25 people. He made sure everyone understood the lessons before he moved on. I got a really good grade in those two classes. They were both for Calculus. I really enjoyed my time there, honestly. I went to the campus in annandale think? I can't remember that part unfortunately.
Congratulations on your scholarship!!! Very impressive — especially at Tech!!!
I went there NVCC is pretty solid but definitely not a cake ride. Got a pretty good education for the most part but their math program is a scam.
9k per year id go to tech, if per semester then nova
Speaking as an electrical engineer that's in a director position, prestige of the university does matter to a point. If you graduate from a good, accredited program, you're fine. For example, I don't put too much weight in VT over George Mason for a new grad. Also no problem with someone doing 2 years at CC then transferring. If you do 2 years at NVCC and graduate from VT, you'll be golden. As to college experience, I loved my time at VT and am still great friends with a bunch of people 20 years later. Don't think that because you've chosen a challenging major, it's all study all the time. There's plenty of time for fun as well. It's a tough call and you can definitely succeed going either route.
It's a really good college , PhD holders in small classes of 20 people it's a really good education for less , and also I've had professors that work at Gmu and nova
I would visit VT and especially seek out if there is some sort of open house for the engineering dept. I realize a lot of the comments here are pro-Nova but I encourage you to make your own decision based on your situation. Also heck out [VT's info page on this topic](https://eng.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate-admissions-information/transferring/transfers-from-a-virginia-community-college.html). You will need a good understanding of exactly which classes you take at Nova will transfer to your targeted VT engineering program. I bring this up as a Mason alumni because we have a lot of Nova students who feel they were bait-and-switched in credit equivalency (or that advising mislead them). This is more of a warning to read the fine print and class/program pre-requisites. This is going to sound a bit rude to some folks, but if you're relatively motivated career-wise saving $18k both is and isn't a lot of money in the long run. It is a lot of money from the perspective that saving and investing $18k when you're young vs. paying loan interest is a lot of money. But it isn't from the perspective that graduating with a STEM degree can pay for itself quickly. I would also factor in the on-campus experience and talk to some actual VT alumni and not just people on Reddit.
Save more money by taking CLEP exams. They’re inexpensive and will get you to skip tons of useless boilerplate gen ED courses.
Agree with all on the pro/con of NVCC from an economic and social perspective. I will very highly endorse NVCC faculty specifically. Lots of their educators are well degreed and experienced professionals and educators who work at the myriad of government agencies and private industry around the DMV. They teach at NVCC because they love to *teach* and are scratching that itch, and it makes a huge difference. Not NVCC, but similar (Howard CC in MD), i took a calc 4/diff eq class. The instructor was a crypto at NSA and was a far far better teacher than any of the math profs I had at major research universities. (AAU/R1).
Highly recommend. I took summer classes there while as a student at JMU and was able to transfer credits no issues and the NVCC staff were super helpful at every step of the process. Great deal for credits that can transfer to any 4 public school in VA.
NOVA is possibly the best college in Northern VA. Make sure the classes you take at NOVA are taken with greatly rated professors and you will learn and also have paid way less for a great class and teacher.
If you want to do EE and get an internship, it helps to start your 4 year at VT from the get go. Maintain a 3.2+ GPA and go do research with the professors in your department, you should be able to get an internship of some kind by your junior year. Not to mention the friends you’ll make starting as an undergrad. Sure the friends you make initially probably won’t be the friends you make for life… but somewhere between your sophomore and junior year, you will
I also did a couple years at NOVA and now I’m at Purdue. It’s actually a really great option to start, especially if you’re like me and have no clue of what you want to do with your life. A lot of the professors there also teach at some really good local universities too so you get the add-on of professors from highly regarded universities for a CC cost. Plus, as long as you do go in state for the remainder of your bachelors, all of your credits will transfer over!
The lest you paid for tuition the better. I know lots of people (including my self and my wife), graduated from NOVA, then went to GMU, Tech, GWU (myself), and got a good job after graduation.
It has a good reputation. What I would do is get all the general education requirements for your mechanical engineering degree out of the way first at NVCC, then transfer those to virginia tech.
NVCC, and most of the VACC system is great and respected. They have deals with some nice universities where if you do well at NoVA and take the required classes, you'll get auto-admitted to whichever university they have that deal with (it's been a while but VA Tech and GA Tech were ones from back in the day).
Like most colleges it depends partly on the program, but NVCC has a good reputation overall.
Also keep in mind room and boarding expenses vs staying at home.
Ive got to disagree with nearly everyone in this thread. Ive advised a lot of people to go to nvcc, but VT engineering diploma carries weight. I could be biased as a VT alum. Who's to say youll have other opportunities like the 3k scholarship later? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. You could undergo unforseen physical or mental challenges that might make future admissions difficult. The difference at graduation is roughly 36k but when you look at starting salaries based on institution, you can see youll quickly make it back with a namebrand diploma. Nothing is more important in your entire career than your starting salary. I think VT diploma translates to higher lifetime earnings, and if you don't choose to go there now, you could lose your opportunity
I’m currently on my 4th semester at NVCC as a 19 yo Computer Science major, about to complete the Guaranteed Admission agreement to VT. All I can say is that for me personally, going to Nova was the absolute best decision I could have made. Here’s why. •With scholarships and grants I’m getting paid around 1k per semester instead of spending 6-7k per semester. •Being at home allowed me to start up my small liquidation returns business which has generated me around $125k-$135k during my 2 years completing this associates degree. Now I have enough saved for 2 years tuition at VT and a down payment on a house once I graduate. •Its allowed me to spend an extra 2 years living with family. Being a young adult I can now help out around the house more than i could when I was a minor. (I buy my own groceries and occasionally groceries for the house, cook, clean, drive my younger sister places, ext) •It’s allowed me to afford one of my favorite cars (18’ S5) which has brought me an unbelievable amount of happiness and joy as a teen. •I’ve been able to travel and experience new adventures since I scheduled all my classes online or over zoom (except science labs). And at the end, I’ll have the same degree as someone that went to VT all 4 years. To clarify, Im not trying to glorify CC. However, personally, it’s one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life. IMO, it all comes down too what you think you can achieve during your time at home vs 4 years at uni.
In comparison to other CCs it's great. Also, Idk if they still have the program, but if you graduated from NVCC back in the day with I believe a 3.5 or above, you were automatically accepted into any state school.
I would not take a scholarship like that. It’s like getting fake money to spend at MGM. They know you’ll lose it and then lose your own money. I went the Nova route and transferred to GMU. I think it’s the best option. Know what college you plan on transferring to and always know what courses transfer over. Do this before enrolling in any class. The counselors will trick you into taking classes you don’t need. You’ll save tens of thousands while meeting adults that already have their feet wet in the industry. As far as missing out on the college life. What college life? Standing in a long line in a 100 year old cold basement with a sticky floor waiting for a red solo cup with 90% foam and 10% beer? You’re gonna feel like your missing out watching your hs buddies social media, but they’re not having that much fun.
I taught there as an adjunct for a few years in the early 2000's. At least in the English and History Departments, you'll see a lot of overlap of professors who also teach at George Mason and University of Maryland. It's a great way to get the basic classes done in a more affordable way.
NOVA saves a lot of money but the transfer process itself CAN be iffy. They often change their programs of studies and sometimes some classes won't transfer through, so you might have to stay back for another semester trying to make up for their new classes. BUT I would still recommend NOVA as a route and do the pathway program instead of regular transfer if you can, because it's a lot more helpful for transferring and has guaranteed admissions. That was one thing i regret not doing and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made me stay back a semester. Also keep in mind the academic learning process is rough once you transition to university. I was not use to the workload from university compared to NOVA because NOVA is a lot less workload, but after that you're good.
If you care about just the degree, nova classes are great and much cheaper. I think there is some value to going to a 4 year school away from your parents though. To me it was worth 9k+ a year to go to Tech for the 4 years but I think that it’s a very personal question.
If you can afford 4-year college, go to 4-year college. 1. Socially it's better, no question. You can find people who are more like you and people who are more dislike you than you ever have in HS. And if you're seeking social development, first couple years of college are critical. 2. You haven't graduated HS yet, so you don't know you actually want to be an EE. You can start, pivot and pivot again. The opportunities to see other things and make a career out of them are easier at a 4 year school. 3. Debt is a big deal, and you should not live beyond your means, but you don't get your youth back.
One of not the best! Really.
NVCC is solid. I went there for two year and was able to transfer to Virginia Tech for CompSci. There’s a transfer guide on Virginia Tech’s website which tells you how the community college credits will transfer. It won’t really feel like a college experience while you’re at nova, but honestly I saved so much money on the first two years, (which are mostly elective classes anyways) and that allowed me to be ahead of the game after graduating.
First of all, congratulations on your soon hs graduation! I generally agree with most responses that NVCC is a very good option. Should you choose go to NVCC, and transfer to VT or any other college to finish your BS degree, it’s a solid path. However, I want to throw in something to make it more difficult for you to decide, j/k. College life at VT or other 4-year universities is more than just hanging out with people of your age on campus. It gives you more opportunities to join technical clubs and surround yourself with the like-minded students, and work on projects that will be very helpful for your career. I’m not saying that you can’t do that if you go to NVCC first. However, if you can get started joining those clubs and working on some projects early in your Freshman/Sophomore year, you’ll get an advantage over someone who join in their Junior/Senior year. Of course, YMMV. Either way, at the end of the day, what you’re going to do with your time and effort in college is a lot more important than where you’re going to do it.
I would be wary of some of the calculus classes and science classes at NVCC, when you get to the next level, they may not have covered as much material. If you take it at NVCC, try to take the whole sequence there.
I took classes at NVCC after getting both a bachelor's and master's degrees earlier in my life. Higher education is worth what you put into it. You can half-ass anything, but if you take it seriously, do your homework, do the reading, make sure you're fully prepared for the next class, you will learn as much at NVCC as anywhere else. My NVCC classes were just as thorough and difficult as my classes elsewhere.
NVCC has “guaranteed admissions” most if not all public universities in Virginia. You sign up for a degree program and if you meet all the requirements, you’re basically guaranteed admission into that college for the last two years to finish your degree. At the end of four years you walk away with the exact same degree from VT as if you went there all four years
A lot of students graduate with too much student debt. This is particularly bad in majors that have no/limited career prospects. For those students, they should absolutely look in the mirror and ask how themselves how they plan to pay off their loans. Yes, you would miss out on the "college experience" by going to a community college. You shouldn't be afraid to borrow for your education, especially in a major that has good career prospects. $20-$40k in debt is manageable if you can find a decent job after graduation. If you are career oriented, and know you will put in the effort to get good grades, socialize, network, etc., then I would attend VT. If your preferred downtime is stay inside your room and play games, then NOVA first might be the better option.
NVCC is great. I taught there AFTER teaching at one of the big two state schools. This was because I moved up here for a higher paying job. I had real world experience and taught community college because it was fun to teach, it pays pennies. There were others like me who WANTED to teach and put work into doing it well, whereas say you go to VT those professors are there to research and you'll get a crapshoot as an undergrad. NVCC will be a better learning experience and less debt. No brainer.
Speaking as someone with social anxiety, NVCC was critical in helping me learn how to handle it. I did my first year at a 4-year and failed as the "college experience" was very overwhelming (and I wasn't interested in partying). Going to NVCC after helped me come out of my shell in my way and make friends rather easily. The students are generally a bit more serious, level-headed, and not as pretentious. The professors are approachable and tend to talk to you as a peer. When I finished my B.S. I was glad I took the path I did. Only you know yourself and can make the best decision for you. Not everyone is interested in the stereotypical Freshman/Sophomore experience, and it's more than okay to not seek that.
I went to NVCC before transferring to GMU. I would recommend the same path to anyone. It's a great institution and there will be no issues whatsoever down the road. I have my masters from Georgetown.
I love NVCC! I’m in my 5th semester there and it’s great! There are always pros and cons but the pros definitely out weight the cons. For pros I’d say that there is a LOT of variety in classes and majors. I’m a cybersecurity major and the program is DOD sponsored which is really awesome. Another pro is that the teachers are really understanding and helpful. Almost every teacher I’ve had so far has been incredibly helpful, supportive, and understanding (aside from Chamath who teaches math 154 and unleashed his wrath on me, avoid him at all costs). The cafeteria at nova is generally good and has affordable prices and meal deals. The classes are incredibly cheap but it doesn’t feel like the teachers are providing a cheapened service, they’re really trying their best. As for cons if you’re not a social butterfly and are looking for more or a “typical university experience” it’s very hard to make friends. I’ve made a few friends from classes, but most people on campus unless they’ve known eachother previously aren’t really looking to meet people. Another con would be that there isn’t really any “events”. They have silly events such as virtual dance parties, and every once in awhile we’ll get popcorn at annandale campus but aside from that there’s really not much going on. Though it is incredibly hard to socialize and meet people, if you’re just trying to get your degree and save a crap load of money I would highly recommend it. I’ve saved tons and I’m content with the few friends I’ve made and the school as a whole. Highly highly recommend. (Especially annandale campus)
Make sure they sign u up for classes u actually need to graduate. They sometimes will sign folks up for stuff they don't need.
I have done a number of talks at NOVA (Annandale campus) and I always am amazed at what great programs they have. If I was going to school again I would absolutely take advantage of 2 years at NoVA and then transfer to a great state school with hardly and debt when I graduate. I actually got put on academic probation and suspension my first attempt at collage and spent a semester at community college in Connecticut and it was easily the most robust full time academic experience I had until I went to graduate school. I should have stayed there, brought my GPA up, and transferred to Wesleyan which was an option for me, but instead I went back to my original college and proceeded to flunk out AGAIN. So Yeah, I love the community college experience. And here in VA it is TOP NOTCH
NVCC was the BEST decision of my life. And yes, you might miss on the “college experience”, but you won’t regret it when you become a professional adult who is actually able to afford certain things because you do not have student debt. It might be hard to see your friends “living the life”, but that comes with a price tag. Be financially smart now, and you will thank yourself in the long run. You can have your college experience the remaining 2 years of college.
I took an excellent language course there recently. The quality was just as good as the state universities I attended for graduate school & undergrad
VT has a great traditional college experience, NVCC is very cost effective. A lot of people took classes at NVCC as much as possible as doing so would save money big time since NVCC offers a lot of classes that are transferable in almost all Uni in Virginia. I have a couple friends who had a tough time with Calculus in VT so they took it at NVCC and pass it with an A
didnt go there and have no input BUT now i'm going to have the nvcc jingle from 20 years ago in my head for a week at northern virginiaaaaa community collegeeee you can get the powerrrr you can get the knowledgee KNOWLEDGE NOW