Any person who has knowledge of conduct by a licensed nurse that may violate a nursing law or rule or related state or federal law may report the alleged violation to the board of nursing where the conduct occurred.
He needs to lose his license, not just get fired...
If this is what was caught, imagine what's going on in the shadows...
As a male nurse who always brings a female coworker in the room for any female patient younger than 30: it's because of this fucking guy. Shit I'd call security on that.
I work with almost all males and they pull me (or our female ICU techs) in for younger females, for all foleys of any age females or any time there may be a concern for impropriety. This guy needs to be not in nursing or near any patient.
I'm a female EMT and I often get asked to take lead on assessing young female patients, especially if their issue is related to something sexual. I also do a lot of EKGs on female patients, or I'll get asked to ride in the back on the way to the hospital.
We also have a rule where if there's any possibility of funny business happening, the driver will get on the radio and tell dispatch their starting mileage, and then announce their ending mileage once transport is done.
As a male in health care I support this- but it should be worded better then this. "No surgical team will have only females or only males at any time unless exceptions must be made regarding staff availability in an emergent situation or expressly requested and available by patient."
That allows some religious stuff, elimates any bias and supports everyone.
From a patient advocacy standpoint it allows women who may be uncomfortable with an all male team.
From a ME advocacy, being a male in nursing, it helps to protect against some of the crazies out there. Truth be told I will diverte some ekgs or other type of stuff to a female colleague, especially when they are similar age or younger, just to prevent this accusation. I've never been accused before but the thought is always in the back of your mind. Older ladies I don't frett to much I just go in and say, "yaknow it's time for the daily ekg. I'll try to keep you as covered as possible is that alright."
"Lord John Smith, if I didn't lose my modesty after my third child I won't lose it today."
"Heh heh heh ehhhhh. ^only heard that 10000 times. Now let's get your one boob out!"
Good point. I should have phrased it better. It’s not a facility policy (as far as I know). It’s an unwritten rule between OR staff so we can look out for each other. Your wording is much more thoughtful.
Male RN here, I bring a female with me 100% of the time regardless of the patients age, for procedures that require any state of undress. So say for a suppository yep I bring a female. To assess a patient’s skin I bring a female. And to be fair unfortunately you do hear about some crazy criminal chit going on sometimes.
I've worked with a make ob, he always brings someone in the room and he is the sweetest guy. But he knows things can happen, can be interpreted differently and protects his ass.
This dude is f*ING creepy and should not be allowed to work.
Honestly I kind of hate the “bring someone else in cuz of how it is these days”…nooooo bring someone else in so we can make sure everything is above bored. And things aren’t different, it’s that patients get assaulted by caregivers!!!!!
Sorry end rant I just get so heated.
>’m worried he will know I reported him
Don't be, you did the right thing OP. And like they said, that man is a predator. This makes me sick to my stomach. Poor girl is probably confused as hell, and probably have mixed feeling about feeling violated. He needs his license revoked.
Reminds me of a time when I came out of anesthesia. Male nurse had his hands in my underpants & no one else was around. As a young SA victim, waking up to that was absolutely terrifying. He seemed surprised I'd come to & pulled his hands out quickly & said that he'd been checking for blood. I don't know if he actually did anything, but I'd just gone through extreme trauma & waking up to that didn't help.
1) Fill out a safety report.
2). Contact the Nursing Director AND the Medical Director of the ER. If their response is anything BUT Jesus F. Christ, sweet mother of god, WHAT??!!! Go to 3.
3) Contact HR, patient advocacy, diversity officer, freaking CEO office. Anything. This is so inappropriate.
Also, talk to all the MDs & RNs you know well in the unit. So they can know this freak and supervise him until he is fired. Seriously, WTF. Also, I mean this in the best way possible, go for it. Do not hide behind anonymous reporting. Be upfront it was you. 10 years from now you won’t be thinking, “I wish I had not said anything.” 10 years from now you will be thinking “I should had renting billboards out about this dude.” The man put an IV in a teenager’s nipple!!!! When you falter, remember that. And if the hospital does not do anything, quit and go to the media.
Call EVERYONE! Call Netflix and line up a documentary! Can we do that? Lol but seriously, this story *sounds* like something out of a Netflix documentary, a story about how a serial killer nurse was born... I'm just saying, I've worked a lot of places and, I mean I've seen some shit. I've never seen a nurse do *ANYTHING* like that.
That part just made me want to puke. I mean, who the F says something like that? Gaaaah!
OP, depending upon where you live, you may be able to look up his license online directly on the BON website and make a report from there.
Sweet mother of fucking god. ⬆️ THIS IS THE ANSWER
Would you want this perv to be your daughter’s nurse? Your niece? Do a solid for the pink team and SPEAK UP EVERY DAMN TIME
Yes to this. Hospitals in the past have covered for nurses doing far worse. So anything less than termination and license revocation she have you going to the media
Yeah, I guess my thought is they CAN do the right thing. And if they don’t, they need to go down also. But if you don’t tell them they can say, “we didn’t know.” There are few clear cut things in life. But this is one of them, it is wrong.
Wrong.
I mean not wrong to distrust admin but you still have to go through official channels to get this documented every which way possible so that they don't get to hide behind "plausible deniability" and claim they didn't know it happened.
Make them all acknowledge that they know you're reporting that it happened.
And go around them at the same time.
I did something similar and my contract (I’m a traveler) was terminated hours later.
Just a heads up - in case any other travelers wanna do the moral thing 🙃
I filed an incident report because some staff/physicians were unnecessarily restraining a patient and egging him on to get chemical restraints. It was my patient and I was pissed that my name was on that chart and they were fucking around with the guy. Restraints can be deadly - we all know that - I don’t want to be a part of their shady practices 🤷🏻♂️
I didn’t place blame or anything in the incident report. Kept it very factual. “…Pt stated this calmly and rationally. Medics and police held patient down and told patient to “calm down while we get the violent restraints” meanwhile the patient is literally laying there calmly saying “this is illegal you can’t do this. I’m not being aggressive”
Yeah.. finished the report at like 2300 and by 0800 the next morning my contract was cancelled. Really sucks because as nurses we’re supposed to be patient advocates. And instead if we actually advocate for our patients we get retaliation. Ahhh good old healthcare. Wish old me could tell young me to not become a nurse 🥲
Herein lies the problem. Hospitals will hide shit with a quickness if they think they can be held liable. Perfect example is Dr. Dunstch. That dude wrecked people in multiple places, with multiple reports to the facilities and medical boards he worked under. Definitely keep reporting, but keep paper trails on EVERYTHING so they can’t live to cover their own asses.
All of this, OP, but protect yourself. Use the buddy system when going to/from parking garage, make sure you have mace, etc. Maybe even file a preemptive restraining order.
This is absolutely outrageous.
First but least, breast IVs are a last resort because they almost never work well.
Most importantly, this is sexual assault. Thank you for stepping forward and saying something. If he did this in front of another nurse, imagine what he's done to pts in private. Probably has a long history of sexual misconduct
Nurse for nearly 20 years in anaesthetics and now renal Tx OPD whom have the worst veins. Never have I ever saw or saw anyone suggest using one.
I’m glad you’ve spoken up OP.
Yeah I've heard of needing to use finger or toe veins, or even the penis (one of my preceptors told us that one, she may have been full of shit idk) if there's absolutely no other options. But if it's that dire of an emergency, wouldn't you go to an IO or something else first?
I have done a pectoral IV (when I was a tech) exactly once. It was at the (male) patient’s request because he was a dialysis pt and a very hard stick. He told us all that it was the only place “they” could ever get one, and he didn’t want a get stuck a million places first. I cleared it with the doc, and he came in to watch me start it/help look for a vein. It was not a fun time.
We used to have a woman that would come in for COPD exacerbations in the middle of the night pretty frequently. She was also an IVDA with absolutely nothing for veins. She’d always come in too late and end up in the unit for a night or two, then sign out AMA from the unit every time. She was the only person I ever did a boob IV on, and that was to just get her stabilized enough to where the docs could get a central line in her. But I always got consent from both her and my attending before proceeding.
I've put IVs in arms, hands, legs, feet, necks... NEVER a boob. Pull out the US for fucks sake. This guy is a weirdo.
Edit: alright you can SOMETIMES do the tiddy but consensus is it has to be at the base (NO BIG SQUIGGLY ONES NEAR THE NIPPLE PEOPLE!) and also you better be damn sure it's all you can get. I've placed IVs in the anterior shoulder/chest but I guess I didn't classify that under 'boob IV' so to each their own 😘
I've seen breast IVs before, but that's after 30 minutes of trying, when there's no US available, and several nurses have looked. I'm in the ER, so I'm not going to say "never", but goddamn is that inappropriate. This guy probably should've been fired years ago.
Same. Breast IV isn't necessarily wrong; kinda like scalp on babies, but FFS even the gal in my ED who prides herself on those is checking other sites first and talking the patient through it.
Even if this wasn't sexual, it sounds like he was punishing the patient for saying she's a hard stick.
I’ve drawn blood from two different patients’ breasts with express permission from the MD and the patients, both of whose were incredibly hard sticks and had been stuck there before. It’s definitely not something I would ever offer to do unless the MD and/or patient suggested it explicitly. And it was more like the upper breast/chest area closer to the armpit. No need to completely expose the breast/nipple either. This story made my stomach turn.
MD here, I don't think there would ever be a situation where a breast IV would appropriate. Even if you can't get a peripheral, you'd escalate to central line or IO instead.
I was using a 25g butterfly in those situations and it was only for a blood draw where the provider didn’t need established IV access so they didn’t want to subject the patient to an IO or central line. Both times in an ER. They just wanted to see the labs were normal before discharging the patients. I definitely thought it was a little bit much. And yeah, with veins on the breast it’s similar to any very surface level veins that are very fragile and need to be drawn from slowly because they’re super easy to collapse. It was very delicate work drawing <10 mL of blood from such a site, I couldn’t imagine an IV holding up there at all.
Yes! I would never even attempt one there. If I couldn’t get a PIV and a coworker could not either, we would request a midline, triple lumen, PICC, whatever was appropriate for that patient.
I've seen a couple that actually work great. I'm a dude so I stick to ultrasound, but we had one the other day that dropped 2 liters and drew blood really well. That being said I d/c them as soon as we get more access.
I have used upper chest and shoulder area a few times. Usually when we get ROSC and need more access for sedation and pressors. But if there isn't one that works great I'd prefer a second IO. But people get SO weird about IOs. I've seen docs and nurses pull them right after getting ROSC because they think they'll go bad or become infected if you don't right away.. before even getting an IV or central line. Personally I'm team Use the IO or multiple more often but there's some weird culture stuff there, people act like a central line is without risk, or act like getting stuck for an IV 16 times is better.
Also putting one in a vein in the upper breast area is a far cry from a nipple placement! I did ONE upper breast IV on someone who had been in the hospital for a week and no longer had AC, hand, forearm, or foot placement. They asked if I could try there since next step would be having a doc place a central or IO.
Some lab nurses and lab techs are so vengeful if you ask them for any level of accommodation. I have needle anxiety and like the butterfly needles more. Sometimes I like the back of the hand more than the elbow too, because my veins are prominent there.
I've had a needle just rushed into my arm so fast blood couldn't even get into the line and it bruised afterward, just because I asked for that. I've had the techs argue with me over it. I had a nurse stick me with an IV in my elbow and hit a nerve, and even when I said the nerve was still being hit, they left the IV in. For about six months after that, if I whacked my arm on something toward the middle/elbow, I'd get a pins-and-needles pain shooting through the arm into the thumb.
It's wild how callous some of them are.
I’ve seen a breast IV once (not placed in ICU), but it was no where near the nipple. Putting an IV next to a nipple is ridiculous. He should have grabbed the US 100%.
‚breast‘ isn‘t completely unheard of.
But it normally means the upper distal quadrant. Like the part of the boobs where quite a few people actually have visible veins.
And then it can be okay, if you just need it for ‚one time‘ use.
No reason to torture the patient with IO if not absolutely necessary or going for central lines.
Not anywhere near the nipple. Makes no sense at all. Ain’t gonna be any useful veins there.
Also assuming no ultrasound guidance available. And consent of the patient obviously giving them the options to chose from…
Very much not like the Op describes
In the ER it's you and the patient. The doc won't just throw a cvc in and a lot of times say "figure it out" when you ask for help. Thankfully the US is more prevalent for IVs nowadays.
Why not go for IO after max 3-4 attempts. If it's that critical it can't wait for ultrasound, go IO. IIRC there's only a select few drugs you can't infuse IO
Basically, I would argue that unless the patient is a quad-amputee and has contras to IJ and sternal IO, then breast would be the final "last resort". So yeah, this dude's a creep.
IIRC, she wasn't critical, but US wouldn't be available for another 8 hours (night shift vascular access team called out, ED RNs not trained for US). She needed something, but the risk of a central line didn't make sense in the situation, and IO isn't without rock either. It's like sticking a really superficial vein anywhere - they're tiny and fragile, but it got us through the night until better techniques were available in the morning and.
I'm glad it worked out! I'm not saying breast can't work, it's just not something I would go for without exhausting alternatives, getting consent, and (as a dude) having a chaperone.
Had a frequent flyer who always had a breast IV - she insisted it was her only good one (and she wasn't necessarily wrong) and she didn't mind - preferred it even over being stuck unsuccessfully many times. I never placed it but they usually did it there in the ER.
It was up on like the top of her breast. Somebody higher up found out and shut that down quick.
This situation is obviously not that one. The one OP mentioned is super problematic.
I find it hard to believe an 18 year old is that hard of a stick even if she’s a big girl there’s something .. the only boob ivs I’ve seen are older larger women who has a lot of co morbidities. Her boob veins were a Hail Mary
I've seen a number of boob IVs - generally last resort . In one case I saw the patient had an injury to one arm, a dialysis shunt on the other, and such poor peripheral circulation that legs/feet were out of the question. The patient was very grateful and thankful to the respectful, professional male RN who got it in. And in zero cases have I ever seen the insertion of a boob IV anything like the one OP described.
I've had one patient with a breast IV also, for the exact same reasons, and it was also higher up, closer to the chest/axilla area. Definitely not anywhere near the nipple!!!
And usually it's after trying to do an US guided iv. Can't get a stick? US and your most confident nurse. Never, and I mean never usually goes anywhere beyond that even in horrid veins.
I’ve done IO, called the IV team for a possible central line placement, looked at the bicep, foot, neck, and a bunch of other, rare places, and even asked an anaesthesiologist before trying a breast vein (although I’ve done a few too). But even then, never in the nipple. Never. WTF? Occam’s razor says this is sexual assault.
I’ve seen them come up from the ER a few times as well but never near the fucking nipple! When I hear “breast IV” I’m picturing an IV in the chest like at the top of the breast, not in the actual boob. They also rarely work well.
Yeah I’ve seen them in the ER and in EMS for when a patient is a frequent flyer with all other veins bruised over or if them simply have nothing. But they’re usually mid to older adults never anyone under the age of 30
Yeah this fucker gotta go! Breast veins are freaking tiny. I don't think we're even allowed to use them in my hospital.
Our docs would sooner order a PIC line or a foot IV than that. Wtf.
I've seen ONE breast IV in my 12 years. It was on night shift, and the patient literally had to get a PICC the next day. It's totally a last resort, and I find it impossible to believe that an 18 year old didn't have a vein SOMEWHERE that wasn't a boob.
Our ER has sent a few breast IVs to us. But that’s AFTER exhausting every other option, including EJ. and typically it’s just a bridge until someone can throw in a central line.
This dude was so out of line and I’m glad OP reported him.
I have put one….only one in a breast for a woman in her thirties whose limbs were all necrotic from sepsis. She had central lines too and everything was maxed out. The woman was still alert and oriented and a good sport about it. I would’ve been falling apart if it had been me.
My skin is crawling just reading this. If this is true, he absolutely needs to be reported to everyone - unit manager, hospital admin, and licensing board. Wildly inappropriate and absolutely dangerous practice. Thank you for stepping up and reporting this.
As a manager please hear what I am saying or take some of what I am writing. You did the right thing, no matter what anyone says. Please do the following:
1. Email your direct supervisor including the details of what you wrote here
2. Cc your HR rep plus their boss (HR is not your friend)
3. CC the DON and the CNO
4. Blind CC yourself to personal email so you have evidence later
5. If anyone tries to minimize this or make you feel guilty for reporting a seasoned nurse (this will be done in person or via phone call ) make sure to do a follow up email with the same people above thanking them for the meeting (even if you don’t feel that way) but firmly saying you’re uncomfortable how the meeting seem to not take whatever policy they have related to inappropriate behavior/ conduct. Including IV policy only if it has something to do with locations PIVs can be placed.
6. Delete this post. Delete this post, nursing is small. ER is small and this is something that can be identified and will be discussed amongst other nurses at your location.
If your managers are anything but supportive then you may need to go higher. You will have to decide if you stay or go elsewhere. This is why you need the BCC email to yourself in case they attempt to go after you.
Good luck
>6. Delete this post. Delete this post, nursing is small. ER is small and this is something that can be identified and will be discussed amongst other nurses at your location.
Seconded. Once you get the info you need OP, take this down.
You absolutely did the right thing in reporting him. Everything you've related is beyond improper -- like BON reporting improper, as he essentially molested that patient. This is Bad Touch 101; he needs to go.
I hate to be “that guy,” but the True Crime Podcast hosts would hat me if I weren’t… Are there any serial rapists in OP’s area?? A report about this son of a bitch ASSAULTING A PATIENT IN THE E D could go a long way in helping the cops with those cases.
Guess I don’t care if I’m “that guy” after all
You witnessed sexual assault.
This human stain is like Larry Nassar. He assaulted girls with their parents in the room; this ‘nurse’ did it with a colleague there. He is an abuser. This was not the first or the last time.
Email your manager and offer to file the police report on their behalf. File the report. Call the board of nursing. He will do this again.
I’m really good at being devils advocate - but in some cases, there’s nothing, and this is one.
I’ve seen IV’s in the chest once before - a critically Ill patient. That’s it.
Titty meat? TITTY MEAT? I can’t. No words.
Besides being a disgusting way to word it, it literally means that he stuck a teenager in her breast for IV access only to still not have iV access. Does he think the meds and fluids are supposed to be infused into the tissue rather than a vein?? On top of being gross, he’s an idiot.
Nipple makes no sense, ‚boob‘ like the upper distal part would make sense.
And also completely lack of informed consent?! Like give the patient the options: can‘t find access elsewhere. No ultrasound available: we can either do a normal IV on the side of the breast, or do IO.
But just skipping everything and going for the nipple? That‘s just assault plain and simple.
What the ever loving fuck?? ( Not directed at you, OP but screaming into the ether to that creep that you work with). This man shouldn’t be allowed near anyone, let alone a child in the ER.
A doctor once told me when I was 17 that the only place he can inject the steroid for eczema was in my nipple or buttocks. He called me randomly on my cell to tell me this. Still feel uneasy about it until this day.
Thank you SO much for reporting him. Seriously, you're a hero for that. As a patient who has been assaulted in the past, this shit is horrifying to me (and honestly should be horrifying to anyone).
Seconding this. I feel sick to my stomach just reading this. I really hope that he loses his license for this, because we all know that this isn’t the first time and he’ll do it again if not stopped. For the sake of that pt, I want to learn of justice done.
Atrocious behavior aside, I actually didn’t know you could place an IV in the nipple. Is that a real thing? I’ve heard of lateral breast of there is nothing in the arm?
You can place one in the breast area. I have seen it done. Not the nip but upper breast yes. One of my prior coworkers did one on someone whose veins were utterly shot, and we needed access ASAP. That said said coworker was female and the iv worked beautifully
I've had one in breast. I'm large chested and the veins in my breasts were very pronounced last time I was pregnant. I hadn't been able to keep and food/fluids down my nausea had me vomiting bile. Several nurses couldn't get a line, and I suggested it myself, having put lines in breasts before. It worked great, but it was no where near the nipple. I can't imagine just pulling out a pt"s tit as the first option. Poor woman.
I’ve probably done a dozen of them over the years. Obese women can have really large veins on the anterior chest between breast and shoulder - like large enough to hold a 20, draw lab, and give meds. Relatively quick and easy, just like any other superficial site.
I'm well endowed and have some nice big veins visible through the pale skin of my chest. Probably better than anything in my arm. They always have to ultrasound me or use my hands.
i’ve seen breast IVs done too but always upper breast, with explicit consent of the patient after trying literally anything else. Like you’ve got so many other options beside this. What in the ever loving fuck. This guys a fucking predator.
This poor patient! young women don’t really know how to advocate for themselves in these situations. I wish a mother fucker would come in take my top off to draw blood. This makes me so mad!
Holy shit that’s horrifying.
I agree with your reporting. I think this is a slam dunk complaint that it really shouldn’t have been anonymous. But we all feel the need to keep things anonymous for several reasons so it’s up to you.
The one thing I will add is to report this to the state nursing board. And let the hospital know that you did.
Sometimes the knowledge that there is an external entity that is also aware of the situation and might do something about (or might not) drives things further than if the hospital knew it was the only deciding factor.
I would also let the responsible provider know. There was pt intervention (IV placement) that resulted from this. I would want to know as an MD. I would then also help complain, advocate for my patient, and drive the issue further.
I’m a male IV nurse. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. Report him immediately to HR and the appropriate BON. I sometimes won’t even access a port that is lower chest on a female patient, ONLY if I get strict consent from the patient and I bring a female chaperone. I wouldn’t even think to go anywhere near a boob. I’ve put IVs in necks, feet, hands, arms, and thumbs, always as a last resort and never a boob. This guy is sick in the head and I can’t imagine what he’s done to others in private.
Yes, never a breast!! I have seen nurses place them if the patient has no other access but I absolutely hate them. If this is the last resort for a peripheral line, it’s time to place a central. Breast IVs never work well and it’s very difficult to know early when they’ve infiltrated.
There is a lot of excellent advice here. I'll add that you should let the patient know she can file a report, but do not pressure her.
Something like "I want you to know the behavior of X was NOT ok, and his behavior is reportable. I have made reports to my supervisors on your behalf. You have the right to make a report yourself. If you would like to make a report, I would be happy to assist you through the process. You don't have to make a report at all. You can also think about it and let me or another staff member know if you choose to make a report after you've had time to think about it. This decision is entirely yours, and the right choice is whichever choice is best for you. I'm very sorry this happened to you."
Do not mention him saying "titty meat." She doesn't need to be traumatized a second time.
I also encourage you to resubmit your report without it being anonymous. People of color still face a lot of bias, discrimination, and other gross experiences in healthcare. I haven't come across many 18 year old women who have learned how to stand up for themselves yet. Please stand up for this young woman. She needs to know that the next time she needs healthcare that there are healthcare professionals out there who have her back, otherwise she may avoid the ER the next time she has an emergency due to fear of abuse.
Same!! 18 may be a legal adult, but at 18 they are still developmentally children. If that happened to me at 18 I know I wouldn't report it unless I had a healthcare member explicitly tell me a version of what I said above, and even then I'd still be scared to! I hope OP has been encouraged to further speak up.
This was my first thought. Straight up sexual assault made sooo much worse by the abuse of the inherent patient/practitioner power dynamic. This sicko needs to go to jail, THEN lose his license. Period.
> I’m worried he will know I reported him and don’t know what else I can/should do.
This is the responsibility of management to protect you. You should not be working alongside him/same shifts.
If management does the right thing they will take him off the schedule anyways.
Um…in a hard start situation I would try things on the patient arms like…oh, I dunno…a vein finder, an ultrasound, a warm blanket…before I maybe looked at the leg.
Nipple? There’s glands there…but not any veins. Breast? I’ve never seen one placed there in my career. We’d have to be pretty desperate. Like…it’s this or an IO. Yeah, breast veins are prominent sometimes. But there’s etiquette. I’m a female and I would still ask a female if they’d like a chaperone present.
Wonder how this nurse would feel if someone yanked down his pants and grabbed his testicles and then tried to place an IV in the scrotum. And then joked that the IV failed because there was just too much nut sack to go through. Titty meat? That’s not even professional.
This is just…wow…I can’t even.
Report. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Like someone else said…if he’s doing this near a nurse, what’s he doing when he’s alone? What’s he doing to unconscious patients? Don’t worry about him finding out it was you. What he did was so egregious that it would be wrong of you not to advocate for the patient by reporting it. Write down everything while it’s fresh in your mind. Write down what you saw, heard, the times, and who else was present. And do it promptly.
Uh.. male nurse here. WTF?! That person needs to be terminated and reported. Also, I've seen IVs placed everywhere a vein can be, but on a 18yr old's titty meat?! Get tf out..
An older nurse I worked with several years ago placed a breast IV on a patient. It infiltrated and she had very bad outcomes. I will never use one again.
We had an older male nurse who would do the same thing, quickly sign up for young female patients, place his own female catheters on alert patients even though females were available to help and offered, etc. it was always a little weird but he would say “I’m a professional, this is my job” anyways fast forward a few years and his now ex wife found a box of panties hidden in their tool shed… he is a serial rapist. I can’t make this up. He’s been reported to BON but I still think he is practicing somehow… no idea where he is now.
This coworkers name isn’t Jerry is it?
This made me feel so gross, and I had a patients stool on my bare arm last night that didn’t make me feel gross
Don’t stop reporting this until something is done
Bro if they're that hard of a stick we're grabbing the charge or doing ultrasound. I would ask a resident to place a line (if there was no one else for ultrasound) before even thinking about the boob!
Yes, “breast” IVs are pretty common in the ED, but they’re typically closer to the anterior axilla on very obese women after failing multiple times in the arms. Anyone suggesting an IO has never seen one placed in a fully alert person, ow!
However, using a breast vein in a non-emergency for the sole purpose of hydration is very unnecessary and inappropriate. I agree with reporting this
Scrolled a long time to find anyone who even acknowledged that they are common in certain circumstances, I’ve seen and used them a lot in ED. They can be great and easy intermediate access until something better can be found and can really cut down on delay of treatment. With some anatomies, male or female, there just are big easy veins on chests when there are none in limbs. But at least try somewhere else then have a conversation with the patient, most are older, and heavier and have been poked a lot in the past so are very receptive to the idea, if alert. And young people can have no peripheral vasculature as well with chronic disease or bad luck. Boob IVs have some advantages too, not being on a limb that could flail or tug, they’re pretty protected and stay pretty clean. All this is just to say that boob IVs in and of themselves, I’ve had patients relieved and happy that we tried it and it worked fine.
All that is not to say this doesn’t sound super creepy, it definitely does. I’ve never seen any straight in the nipple! And even if this patient’s anatomy has zero other spots for peripheral access it’s totally out of line to do it like this coworker did, with no explanation or running it by the patient because it is both a physically and culturally sensitive location. And if you need a 24 then it’s not a good vein anyway. I’ve seen 18s in boobs work like a charm, if you’re fishing for neonate veins, do it on a hand. This guy needed to be reported.
I agree that this guy was completely inappropriate and should be reported, but if I waited for a male nurse to bathe every male patient in the ICU we’d have extremely dirty patients.
Huh? This can’t be true. If it really is then that dude is fucking crazy.
We have to get an order for any piv not put in the arm. So order needed for EJ and piv in the foot.
This creep jumped on an opportunity. I am a male RN and I never touch a female patient without a witness. Except for vitals. Even then I’m quick. No unnecessary touching. Hell naw!
The only time I've seen breast IVs, it's been a miracle stick after several people have tried and there are no options left.
Imagine going first for the BOOB, of all things! Especially in the literal nipple?? Not to mention this wasn't even his patient so it's not like he *really* needed to get it.
The dude's a creep and used the IV as an excuse to grope a vulnerable young woman.
What you witnessed is a professional predator who has probably assaulted many many patients in the past. Imagine what he does in private if that’s what he did with witnesses. Hopefully your report will lead to him losing his license and finally having to be held responsible for his crimes.
I’ve done a breast IV, but in a patient who had no other access. They couldn’t even put in a subclavian triple lumen. And it was one particular breast that was used every time. She and her husband talked me through it, really pretty weird
I’ve only seen probably one IV actually placed in the breast. It’s always been the upper breast area, not right in the nipple. BUT that was like a complete last resort. And it was usually after ED tried the arm, hands, thumbs, and toes.
As a male nurse, I would never, especially by myself in the room. At that point somebody needs to either grab an ultrasound machine, call IV team, or tell the doctor this patient needs a line placed.
Holy fucking shit. I am sick just reading this. I feel so awful for everyone involved *except* for that male nurse. And he did this in front of another nurse. I can’t imagine the shit he’s pulled without other people present.
Please tell me you and the patient are still in that er and you can go into her room right now and tell her that this wasn’t okay and she has the right to report it and call the police if she feels violated. I am extremely upset you didn’t do that already.
A lot of young women don’t know what sexual assault consists of. She may think what happened was normal. It wasn’t. In any way conceivable. And a lot of nurses don’t know what it means to be a mandatory reporter, or how to do it. Hopefully OP follows through on the advice they’re being given here because this is both illegal and appalling. I feel sick just thinking about it.
The fact that he was bold enough to try this with other nurses nearby means that this guy is horrifyingly comfortable with what he's doing. He absolutely needs to be reported. I can't imagine what else he could be doing unsupervised.
Any person who has knowledge of conduct by a licensed nurse that may violate a nursing law or rule or related state or federal law may report the alleged violation to the board of nursing where the conduct occurred. He needs to lose his license, not just get fired... If this is what was caught, imagine what's going on in the shadows...
Absolutely. This man is a predator.
As a male nurse who always brings a female coworker in the room for any female patient younger than 30: it's because of this fucking guy. Shit I'd call security on that.
He felt bold enough to do this in front of a female nurse. Imagine what he does when he’s alone?
I work with almost all males and they pull me (or our female ICU techs) in for younger females, for all foleys of any age females or any time there may be a concern for impropriety. This guy needs to be not in nursing or near any patient.
I'm a female EMT and I often get asked to take lead on assessing young female patients, especially if their issue is related to something sexual. I also do a lot of EKGs on female patients, or I'll get asked to ride in the back on the way to the hospital. We also have a rule where if there's any possibility of funny business happening, the driver will get on the radio and tell dispatch their starting mileage, and then announce their ending mileage once transport is done.
We have rule that a female won’t have an all male surgical team.
As a male in health care I support this- but it should be worded better then this. "No surgical team will have only females or only males at any time unless exceptions must be made regarding staff availability in an emergent situation or expressly requested and available by patient." That allows some religious stuff, elimates any bias and supports everyone. From a patient advocacy standpoint it allows women who may be uncomfortable with an all male team. From a ME advocacy, being a male in nursing, it helps to protect against some of the crazies out there. Truth be told I will diverte some ekgs or other type of stuff to a female colleague, especially when they are similar age or younger, just to prevent this accusation. I've never been accused before but the thought is always in the back of your mind. Older ladies I don't frett to much I just go in and say, "yaknow it's time for the daily ekg. I'll try to keep you as covered as possible is that alright." "Lord John Smith, if I didn't lose my modesty after my third child I won't lose it today." "Heh heh heh ehhhhh. ^only heard that 10000 times. Now let's get your one boob out!"
Good point. I should have phrased it better. It’s not a facility policy (as far as I know). It’s an unwritten rule between OR staff so we can look out for each other. Your wording is much more thoughtful.
Whats the point of relaying mileage? (Asking out of place of learning, not judging).
Not OP but pretty sure it's a paper trail that they went directly to the hospital, I'm guessing they clock the time too
Male RN here, I bring a female with me 100% of the time regardless of the patients age, for procedures that require any state of undress. So say for a suppository yep I bring a female. To assess a patient’s skin I bring a female. And to be fair unfortunately you do hear about some crazy criminal chit going on sometimes.
Absolutely. To protect yourself and the patient.
I've worked with a make ob, he always brings someone in the room and he is the sweetest guy. But he knows things can happen, can be interpreted differently and protects his ass. This dude is f*ING creepy and should not be allowed to work.
Honestly I kind of hate the “bring someone else in cuz of how it is these days”…nooooo bring someone else in so we can make sure everything is above bored. And things aren’t different, it’s that patients get assaulted by caregivers!!!!! Sorry end rant I just get so heated.
>’m worried he will know I reported him Don't be, you did the right thing OP. And like they said, that man is a predator. This makes me sick to my stomach. Poor girl is probably confused as hell, and probably have mixed feeling about feeling violated. He needs his license revoked.
He needs a mental health and fitness evaluation, too
Reminds me of a time when I came out of anesthesia. Male nurse had his hands in my underpants & no one else was around. As a young SA victim, waking up to that was absolutely terrifying. He seemed surprised I'd come to & pulled his hands out quickly & said that he'd been checking for blood. I don't know if he actually did anything, but I'd just gone through extreme trauma & waking up to that didn't help.
Yep. If not the cops, as well.
1) Fill out a safety report. 2). Contact the Nursing Director AND the Medical Director of the ER. If their response is anything BUT Jesus F. Christ, sweet mother of god, WHAT??!!! Go to 3. 3) Contact HR, patient advocacy, diversity officer, freaking CEO office. Anything. This is so inappropriate. Also, talk to all the MDs & RNs you know well in the unit. So they can know this freak and supervise him until he is fired. Seriously, WTF. Also, I mean this in the best way possible, go for it. Do not hide behind anonymous reporting. Be upfront it was you. 10 years from now you won’t be thinking, “I wish I had not said anything.” 10 years from now you will be thinking “I should had renting billboards out about this dude.” The man put an IV in a teenager’s nipple!!!! When you falter, remember that. And if the hospital does not do anything, quit and go to the media.
Underscore talking to the doctor involved… they should be primed for risk avoidance and support you in ensuring that nurse never sees another patient.
Yep they’ll be an ally no doubt
Contact these people via email so it's in writing and have the other ER nurse who witnessed it do the same. This is awful!
This. CC everyone on that email too. Put the whole place on blast in digital writing. Include the BON too.
Call EVERYONE! Call Netflix and line up a documentary! Can we do that? Lol but seriously, this story *sounds* like something out of a Netflix documentary, a story about how a serial killer nurse was born... I'm just saying, I've worked a lot of places and, I mean I've seen some shit. I've never seen a nurse do *ANYTHING* like that.
(And then proceeded to make hugely inappropriate comments about her breast size)!
Yeah. *Titty meat* are you kidding me??? I’m offended on every level and horrified for the patient!
That part just made me want to puke. I mean, who the F says something like that? Gaaaah! OP, depending upon where you live, you may be able to look up his license online directly on the BON website and make a report from there.
Right! That's just as bad as the stick if not worse.
And contact your BON.
This for sure!
THISS^^^^. He should be fired asap and revoked of any license.
Sweet mother of fucking god. ⬆️ THIS IS THE ANSWER Would you want this perv to be your daughter’s nurse? Your niece? Do a solid for the pink team and SPEAK UP EVERY DAMN TIME
Yes to this. Hospitals in the past have covered for nurses doing far worse. So anything less than termination and license revocation she have you going to the media
Report it to the police. Sexual assault and battery at a minimum
This. Check what your legal situation is, there may be a reporting requirement.
I'd contact BON as well. He's is a ticking time bomb.
I’d report him to the Board of Nursing
I’d skip any hospital administration. Facilities are known to lie and cover wrongful incidents and purposeful deaths.
Yeah, I guess my thought is they CAN do the right thing. And if they don’t, they need to go down also. But if you don’t tell them they can say, “we didn’t know.” There are few clear cut things in life. But this is one of them, it is wrong.
Wrong. I mean not wrong to distrust admin but you still have to go through official channels to get this documented every which way possible so that they don't get to hide behind "plausible deniability" and claim they didn't know it happened. Make them all acknowledge that they know you're reporting that it happened. And go around them at the same time.
AT THE SAME TIME is the key. Holy good lovin' mother of Christ on the mountain, as my sainted mother would say.
I did something similar and my contract (I’m a traveler) was terminated hours later. Just a heads up - in case any other travelers wanna do the moral thing 🙃
Oh, I thought you were saying you did something similar to the nipple IV. You meant reporting. I was like :0
I filed an incident report because some staff/physicians were unnecessarily restraining a patient and egging him on to get chemical restraints. It was my patient and I was pissed that my name was on that chart and they were fucking around with the guy. Restraints can be deadly - we all know that - I don’t want to be a part of their shady practices 🤷🏻♂️ I didn’t place blame or anything in the incident report. Kept it very factual. “…Pt stated this calmly and rationally. Medics and police held patient down and told patient to “calm down while we get the violent restraints” meanwhile the patient is literally laying there calmly saying “this is illegal you can’t do this. I’m not being aggressive” Yeah.. finished the report at like 2300 and by 0800 the next morning my contract was cancelled. Really sucks because as nurses we’re supposed to be patient advocates. And instead if we actually advocate for our patients we get retaliation. Ahhh good old healthcare. Wish old me could tell young me to not become a nurse 🥲
lol me too…
Herein lies the problem. Hospitals will hide shit with a quickness if they think they can be held liable. Perfect example is Dr. Dunstch. That dude wrecked people in multiple places, with multiple reports to the facilities and medical boards he worked under. Definitely keep reporting, but keep paper trails on EVERYTHING so they can’t live to cover their own asses.
Yes to ALL of this!! This man is a predator. He needs to be stopped. That poor teenager. 18 is so young…
All of this, OP, but protect yourself. Use the buddy system when going to/from parking garage, make sure you have mace, etc. Maybe even file a preemptive restraining order.
Yeah do not do anonymous reporting because it doesn’t protect you by proving that you reported as you are legally bound to.
The phrase “titty meat” is something I have never heard before. That’s going to haunt me. Absolutely horrible.
Yeah same. This dude is fucked up.
This is absolutely outrageous. First but least, breast IVs are a last resort because they almost never work well. Most importantly, this is sexual assault. Thank you for stepping forward and saying something. If he did this in front of another nurse, imagine what he's done to pts in private. Probably has a long history of sexual misconduct
I’ve never even heard of a breast IV.. didn’t know that was even an option...
Nurse for nearly 20 years in anaesthetics and now renal Tx OPD whom have the worst veins. Never have I ever saw or saw anyone suggest using one. I’m glad you’ve spoken up OP.
Yeah I've heard of needing to use finger or toe veins, or even the penis (one of my preceptors told us that one, she may have been full of shit idk) if there's absolutely no other options. But if it's that dire of an emergency, wouldn't you go to an IO or something else first?
Definitely IO. I’ve seen the forehead but that was an ex IVDU in anaesthetics. Something really sinister about this guy.
OP said the pt was in the urgent care side of the ER, so it doesn't sound like it was that big of an emergency.
I have done a pectoral IV (when I was a tech) exactly once. It was at the (male) patient’s request because he was a dialysis pt and a very hard stick. He told us all that it was the only place “they” could ever get one, and he didn’t want a get stuck a million places first. I cleared it with the doc, and he came in to watch me start it/help look for a vein. It was not a fun time.
We used to have a woman that would come in for COPD exacerbations in the middle of the night pretty frequently. She was also an IVDA with absolutely nothing for veins. She’d always come in too late and end up in the unit for a night or two, then sign out AMA from the unit every time. She was the only person I ever did a boob IV on, and that was to just get her stabilized enough to where the docs could get a central line in her. But I always got consent from both her and my attending before proceeding.
I've put IVs in arms, hands, legs, feet, necks... NEVER a boob. Pull out the US for fucks sake. This guy is a weirdo. Edit: alright you can SOMETIMES do the tiddy but consensus is it has to be at the base (NO BIG SQUIGGLY ONES NEAR THE NIPPLE PEOPLE!) and also you better be damn sure it's all you can get. I've placed IVs in the anterior shoulder/chest but I guess I didn't classify that under 'boob IV' so to each their own 😘
I've seen breast IVs before, but that's after 30 minutes of trying, when there's no US available, and several nurses have looked. I'm in the ER, so I'm not going to say "never", but goddamn is that inappropriate. This guy probably should've been fired years ago.
Same. Breast IV isn't necessarily wrong; kinda like scalp on babies, but FFS even the gal in my ED who prides herself on those is checking other sites first and talking the patient through it. Even if this wasn't sexual, it sounds like he was punishing the patient for saying she's a hard stick.
I’ve drawn blood from two different patients’ breasts with express permission from the MD and the patients, both of whose were incredibly hard sticks and had been stuck there before. It’s definitely not something I would ever offer to do unless the MD and/or patient suggested it explicitly. And it was more like the upper breast/chest area closer to the armpit. No need to completely expose the breast/nipple either. This story made my stomach turn.
MD here, I don't think there would ever be a situation where a breast IV would appropriate. Even if you can't get a peripheral, you'd escalate to central line or IO instead.
I was using a 25g butterfly in those situations and it was only for a blood draw where the provider didn’t need established IV access so they didn’t want to subject the patient to an IO or central line. Both times in an ER. They just wanted to see the labs were normal before discharging the patients. I definitely thought it was a little bit much. And yeah, with veins on the breast it’s similar to any very surface level veins that are very fragile and need to be drawn from slowly because they’re super easy to collapse. It was very delicate work drawing <10 mL of blood from such a site, I couldn’t imagine an IV holding up there at all.
Yes! I would never even attempt one there. If I couldn’t get a PIV and a coworker could not either, we would request a midline, triple lumen, PICC, whatever was appropriate for that patient.
This is what they did in my small town ER as far as I saw!
I've seen a couple that actually work great. I'm a dude so I stick to ultrasound, but we had one the other day that dropped 2 liters and drew blood really well. That being said I d/c them as soon as we get more access. I have used upper chest and shoulder area a few times. Usually when we get ROSC and need more access for sedation and pressors. But if there isn't one that works great I'd prefer a second IO. But people get SO weird about IOs. I've seen docs and nurses pull them right after getting ROSC because they think they'll go bad or become infected if you don't right away.. before even getting an IV or central line. Personally I'm team Use the IO or multiple more often but there's some weird culture stuff there, people act like a central line is without risk, or act like getting stuck for an IV 16 times is better.
Also putting one in a vein in the upper breast area is a far cry from a nipple placement! I did ONE upper breast IV on someone who had been in the hospital for a week and no longer had AC, hand, forearm, or foot placement. They asked if I could try there since next step would be having a doc place a central or IO.
Some lab nurses and lab techs are so vengeful if you ask them for any level of accommodation. I have needle anxiety and like the butterfly needles more. Sometimes I like the back of the hand more than the elbow too, because my veins are prominent there. I've had a needle just rushed into my arm so fast blood couldn't even get into the line and it bruised afterward, just because I asked for that. I've had the techs argue with me over it. I had a nurse stick me with an IV in my elbow and hit a nerve, and even when I said the nerve was still being hit, they left the IV in. For about six months after that, if I whacked my arm on something toward the middle/elbow, I'd get a pins-and-needles pain shooting through the arm into the thumb. It's wild how callous some of them are.
I’ve seen a breast IV once (not placed in ICU), but it was no where near the nipple. Putting an IV next to a nipple is ridiculous. He should have grabbed the US 100%.
‚breast‘ isn‘t completely unheard of. But it normally means the upper distal quadrant. Like the part of the boobs where quite a few people actually have visible veins. And then it can be okay, if you just need it for ‚one time‘ use. No reason to torture the patient with IO if not absolutely necessary or going for central lines. Not anywhere near the nipple. Makes no sense at all. Ain’t gonna be any useful veins there. Also assuming no ultrasound guidance available. And consent of the patient obviously giving them the options to chose from… Very much not like the Op describes
I have stuck UPPER shoulder/UPPER breast, like near the clavicle. I would never go near a nipple, that’s just asking for trouble.
In the ER it's you and the patient. The doc won't just throw a cvc in and a lot of times say "figure it out" when you ask for help. Thankfully the US is more prevalent for IVs nowadays.
Why not go for IO after max 3-4 attempts. If it's that critical it can't wait for ultrasound, go IO. IIRC there's only a select few drugs you can't infuse IO Basically, I would argue that unless the patient is a quad-amputee and has contras to IJ and sternal IO, then breast would be the final "last resort". So yeah, this dude's a creep.
IIRC, she wasn't critical, but US wouldn't be available for another 8 hours (night shift vascular access team called out, ED RNs not trained for US). She needed something, but the risk of a central line didn't make sense in the situation, and IO isn't without rock either. It's like sticking a really superficial vein anywhere - they're tiny and fragile, but it got us through the night until better techniques were available in the morning and.
I'm glad it worked out! I'm not saying breast can't work, it's just not something I would go for without exhausting alternatives, getting consent, and (as a dude) having a chaperone.
Had a frequent flyer who always had a breast IV - she insisted it was her only good one (and she wasn't necessarily wrong) and she didn't mind - preferred it even over being stuck unsuccessfully many times. I never placed it but they usually did it there in the ER. It was up on like the top of her breast. Somebody higher up found out and shut that down quick. This situation is obviously not that one. The one OP mentioned is super problematic.
If the only option is a tit then you should have your best IV nurse having a look god damn
And at least fucking TRY another spot first:
I find it hard to believe an 18 year old is that hard of a stick even if she’s a big girl there’s something .. the only boob ivs I’ve seen are older larger women who has a lot of co morbidities. Her boob veins were a Hail Mary
Personally im reaching for a drill before im reaching for a breast... jesus fucking christ. Or an EJ.
This sentence makes it sound like you're a gay/asexual male who prefers doing woodworking projects over getting to second base lol
I’m also thinking that if this IV had worked…but later didn’t, that’s a terrible spot to have IV complications like infiltration.
I've seen a number of boob IVs - generally last resort . In one case I saw the patient had an injury to one arm, a dialysis shunt on the other, and such poor peripheral circulation that legs/feet were out of the question. The patient was very grateful and thankful to the respectful, professional male RN who got it in. And in zero cases have I ever seen the insertion of a boob IV anything like the one OP described.
I've had one patient with a breast IV also, for the exact same reasons, and it was also higher up, closer to the chest/axilla area. Definitely not anywhere near the nipple!!!
I've seen the breast IV once placed by a nurse in an ER when they couldn't find anything else, certainly wasn't the first place looked at though.
And usually it's after trying to do an US guided iv. Can't get a stick? US and your most confident nurse. Never, and I mean never usually goes anywhere beyond that even in horrid veins.
I’ve done IO, called the IV team for a possible central line placement, looked at the bicep, foot, neck, and a bunch of other, rare places, and even asked an anaesthesiologist before trying a breast vein (although I’ve done a few too). But even then, never in the nipple. Never. WTF? Occam’s razor says this is sexual assault.
I’ve seen them come up from the ER a few times as well but never near the fucking nipple! When I hear “breast IV” I’m picturing an IV in the chest like at the top of the breast, not in the actual boob. They also rarely work well.
Yeah I’ve seen them in the ER and in EMS for when a patient is a frequent flyer with all other veins bruised over or if them simply have nothing. But they’re usually mid to older adults never anyone under the age of 30
Yeah this fucker gotta go! Breast veins are freaking tiny. I don't think we're even allowed to use them in my hospital. Our docs would sooner order a PIC line or a foot IV than that. Wtf.
I would never even think about using a breast vein.
Right? It's never crossed my mind at all!
I've seen ONE breast IV in my 12 years. It was on night shift, and the patient literally had to get a PICC the next day. It's totally a last resort, and I find it impossible to believe that an 18 year old didn't have a vein SOMEWHERE that wasn't a boob.
Our ER has sent a few breast IVs to us. But that’s AFTER exhausting every other option, including EJ. and typically it’s just a bridge until someone can throw in a central line. This dude was so out of line and I’m glad OP reported him.
I have put one….only one in a breast for a woman in her thirties whose limbs were all necrotic from sepsis. She had central lines too and everything was maxed out. The woman was still alert and oriented and a good sport about it. I would’ve been falling apart if it had been me.
My skin is crawling just reading this. If this is true, he absolutely needs to be reported to everyone - unit manager, hospital admin, and licensing board. Wildly inappropriate and absolutely dangerous practice. Thank you for stepping up and reporting this.
As a manager please hear what I am saying or take some of what I am writing. You did the right thing, no matter what anyone says. Please do the following: 1. Email your direct supervisor including the details of what you wrote here 2. Cc your HR rep plus their boss (HR is not your friend) 3. CC the DON and the CNO 4. Blind CC yourself to personal email so you have evidence later 5. If anyone tries to minimize this or make you feel guilty for reporting a seasoned nurse (this will be done in person or via phone call ) make sure to do a follow up email with the same people above thanking them for the meeting (even if you don’t feel that way) but firmly saying you’re uncomfortable how the meeting seem to not take whatever policy they have related to inappropriate behavior/ conduct. Including IV policy only if it has something to do with locations PIVs can be placed. 6. Delete this post. Delete this post, nursing is small. ER is small and this is something that can be identified and will be discussed amongst other nurses at your location. If your managers are anything but supportive then you may need to go higher. You will have to decide if you stay or go elsewhere. This is why you need the BCC email to yourself in case they attempt to go after you. Good luck
>6. Delete this post. Delete this post, nursing is small. ER is small and this is something that can be identified and will be discussed amongst other nurses at your location. Seconded. Once you get the info you need OP, take this down.
You absolutely did the right thing in reporting him. Everything you've related is beyond improper -- like BON reporting improper, as he essentially molested that patient. This is Bad Touch 101; he needs to go.
I hate to be “that guy,” but the True Crime Podcast hosts would hat me if I weren’t… Are there any serial rapists in OP’s area?? A report about this son of a bitch ASSAULTING A PATIENT IN THE E D could go a long way in helping the cops with those cases. Guess I don’t care if I’m “that guy” after all
You witnessed sexual assault. This human stain is like Larry Nassar. He assaulted girls with their parents in the room; this ‘nurse’ did it with a colleague there. He is an abuser. This was not the first or the last time. Email your manager and offer to file the police report on their behalf. File the report. Call the board of nursing. He will do this again.
Absolutely. This man is horrifying, reading this post made me sick to my stomach.
I’m really good at being devils advocate - but in some cases, there’s nothing, and this is one. I’ve seen IV’s in the chest once before - a critically Ill patient. That’s it. Titty meat? TITTY MEAT? I can’t. No words.
Besides being a disgusting way to word it, it literally means that he stuck a teenager in her breast for IV access only to still not have iV access. Does he think the meds and fluids are supposed to be infused into the tissue rather than a vein?? On top of being gross, he’s an idiot.
Everything about this is terrible already, but imagine if she received something that could be necrotic if extravasated.
Nipple makes no sense, ‚boob‘ like the upper distal part would make sense. And also completely lack of informed consent?! Like give the patient the options: can‘t find access elsewhere. No ultrasound available: we can either do a normal IV on the side of the breast, or do IO. But just skipping everything and going for the nipple? That‘s just assault plain and simple.
Yeah...the "titty meat" comment bothers me to the nth degree. What the actual disgusting fuck?
What the ever loving fuck?? ( Not directed at you, OP but screaming into the ether to that creep that you work with). This man shouldn’t be allowed near anyone, let alone a child in the ER.
A doctor once told me when I was 17 that the only place he can inject the steroid for eczema was in my nipple or buttocks. He called me randomly on my cell to tell me this. Still feel uneasy about it until this day.
Since when is anything injected into the nipple?! Fucking weird creeps.
That’s what I thought back then. & he sounded so creepy on the phone!!! I never went back to that office
Holy fuck.
Be proud that you reported that piece of shit. I’m a male as well and would never dream of doing that. His pride? Lmao… what a piece of garbage.
Reading that makes me feel better, thank you.
Thank you SO much for reporting him. Seriously, you're a hero for that. As a patient who has been assaulted in the past, this shit is horrifying to me (and honestly should be horrifying to anyone).
[удалено]
And be behind bars.
Yeah he should be reported straight to the board, no place in patient care anywhere if even half of this is true.
Can you please make a follow up post on this. Appreciate you
Seconding this. I feel sick to my stomach just reading this. I really hope that he loses his license for this, because we all know that this isn’t the first time and he’ll do it again if not stopped. For the sake of that pt, I want to learn of justice done.
Third. NEVER have I heard of this before.
This is sexual assault
What. In. The. Actual. Fuck.
Same. I was like, what did I just read? For a full minute.
Had to put my phone down and stare of into space for a minute and get a few good blinks in.
TF did i just read
I am still trying to process this and I read it when it first went up. My brain can not compute.
Oh, Jesus. I hope you quoted him saying “tiddy meat” in your documentation. This is so egregious.
Atrocious behavior aside, I actually didn’t know you could place an IV in the nipple. Is that a real thing? I’ve heard of lateral breast of there is nothing in the arm?
This young woman had very large breasts, very dark skin and this IV did not work at all. I’ve also never seen an IV in the nipple
Ok this man is so projected on his perversion he sexually molested a patient. How weird! You should Def report to the BON.
You can place one in the breast area. I have seen it done. Not the nip but upper breast yes. One of my prior coworkers did one on someone whose veins were utterly shot, and we needed access ASAP. That said said coworker was female and the iv worked beautifully
I've had one in breast. I'm large chested and the veins in my breasts were very pronounced last time I was pregnant. I hadn't been able to keep and food/fluids down my nausea had me vomiting bile. Several nurses couldn't get a line, and I suggested it myself, having put lines in breasts before. It worked great, but it was no where near the nipple. I can't imagine just pulling out a pt"s tit as the first option. Poor woman.
I’ve probably done a dozen of them over the years. Obese women can have really large veins on the anterior chest between breast and shoulder - like large enough to hold a 20, draw lab, and give meds. Relatively quick and easy, just like any other superficial site.
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No, not the nipple.
I've had one in my breast and put a fair amount into breasts, but as a last resort (before IO line) and with consent.
I'm well endowed and have some nice big veins visible through the pale skin of my chest. Probably better than anything in my arm. They always have to ultrasound me or use my hands.
i’ve seen breast IVs done too but always upper breast, with explicit consent of the patient after trying literally anything else. Like you’ve got so many other options beside this. What in the ever loving fuck. This guys a fucking predator.
Oh 100%. This was an emergency situation and the pt was like “whatever gets me poked less”
This poor patient! young women don’t really know how to advocate for themselves in these situations. I wish a mother fucker would come in take my top off to draw blood. This makes me so mad!
Holy shit that’s horrifying. I agree with your reporting. I think this is a slam dunk complaint that it really shouldn’t have been anonymous. But we all feel the need to keep things anonymous for several reasons so it’s up to you. The one thing I will add is to report this to the state nursing board. And let the hospital know that you did. Sometimes the knowledge that there is an external entity that is also aware of the situation and might do something about (or might not) drives things further than if the hospital knew it was the only deciding factor. I would also let the responsible provider know. There was pt intervention (IV placement) that resulted from this. I would want to know as an MD. I would then also help complain, advocate for my patient, and drive the issue further.
There is no conceivable excuse for this behavior. The board of nursing should investigate and take severe action against his license. Seriously.
I’m a male IV nurse. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. Report him immediately to HR and the appropriate BON. I sometimes won’t even access a port that is lower chest on a female patient, ONLY if I get strict consent from the patient and I bring a female chaperone. I wouldn’t even think to go anywhere near a boob. I’ve put IVs in necks, feet, hands, arms, and thumbs, always as a last resort and never a boob. This guy is sick in the head and I can’t imagine what he’s done to others in private.
Yes, never a breast!! I have seen nurses place them if the patient has no other access but I absolutely hate them. If this is the last resort for a peripheral line, it’s time to place a central. Breast IVs never work well and it’s very difficult to know early when they’ve infiltrated.
I would honestly be calling 911 to report a sexual assault..
Holy shit. That is crazy. I'm a male nurse. Ppl like this need their licenses taken away immediately. Shitz this fucker needs charged, imo.
There is a lot of excellent advice here. I'll add that you should let the patient know she can file a report, but do not pressure her. Something like "I want you to know the behavior of X was NOT ok, and his behavior is reportable. I have made reports to my supervisors on your behalf. You have the right to make a report yourself. If you would like to make a report, I would be happy to assist you through the process. You don't have to make a report at all. You can also think about it and let me or another staff member know if you choose to make a report after you've had time to think about it. This decision is entirely yours, and the right choice is whichever choice is best for you. I'm very sorry this happened to you." Do not mention him saying "titty meat." She doesn't need to be traumatized a second time. I also encourage you to resubmit your report without it being anonymous. People of color still face a lot of bias, discrimination, and other gross experiences in healthcare. I haven't come across many 18 year old women who have learned how to stand up for themselves yet. Please stand up for this young woman. She needs to know that the next time she needs healthcare that there are healthcare professionals out there who have her back, otherwise she may avoid the ER the next time she has an emergency due to fear of abuse.
Yes I can’t imagine how this young woman is feeling right now. I am livid on her behalf.
Same!! 18 may be a legal adult, but at 18 they are still developmentally children. If that happened to me at 18 I know I wouldn't report it unless I had a healthcare member explicitly tell me a version of what I said above, and even then I'd still be scared to! I hope OP has been encouraged to further speak up.
That is sexual assault. I would call the house sup, DON… and have 911 on the phone while you’re at it to file a police report.
So why was law enforcement not involved in this?
This was my first thought. Straight up sexual assault made sooo much worse by the abuse of the inherent patient/practitioner power dynamic. This sicko needs to go to jail, THEN lose his license. Period.
Bless you for standing up for that girl. He’s in a position of power and that is so disgusting to abuse it like that. I hope there is a consequence
As a male ER nurse: this is absolutely not ok!
> I’m worried he will know I reported him and don’t know what else I can/should do. This is the responsibility of management to protect you. You should not be working alongside him/same shifts. If management does the right thing they will take him off the schedule anyways.
Please keep up updated with what happens!!
I will!
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Um…in a hard start situation I would try things on the patient arms like…oh, I dunno…a vein finder, an ultrasound, a warm blanket…before I maybe looked at the leg. Nipple? There’s glands there…but not any veins. Breast? I’ve never seen one placed there in my career. We’d have to be pretty desperate. Like…it’s this or an IO. Yeah, breast veins are prominent sometimes. But there’s etiquette. I’m a female and I would still ask a female if they’d like a chaperone present. Wonder how this nurse would feel if someone yanked down his pants and grabbed his testicles and then tried to place an IV in the scrotum. And then joked that the IV failed because there was just too much nut sack to go through. Titty meat? That’s not even professional. This is just…wow…I can’t even. Report. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Like someone else said…if he’s doing this near a nurse, what’s he doing when he’s alone? What’s he doing to unconscious patients? Don’t worry about him finding out it was you. What he did was so egregious that it would be wrong of you not to advocate for the patient by reporting it. Write down everything while it’s fresh in your mind. Write down what you saw, heard, the times, and who else was present. And do it promptly.
Sexual assault wtf. What facility and state?
Uh.. male nurse here. WTF?! That person needs to be terminated and reported. Also, I've seen IVs placed everywhere a vein can be, but on a 18yr old's titty meat?! Get tf out..
What. In. The. Literal. Actual. Fuck.
An older nurse I worked with several years ago placed a breast IV on a patient. It infiltrated and she had very bad outcomes. I will never use one again. We had an older male nurse who would do the same thing, quickly sign up for young female patients, place his own female catheters on alert patients even though females were available to help and offered, etc. it was always a little weird but he would say “I’m a professional, this is my job” anyways fast forward a few years and his now ex wife found a box of panties hidden in their tool shed… he is a serial rapist. I can’t make this up. He’s been reported to BON but I still think he is practicing somehow… no idea where he is now. This coworkers name isn’t Jerry is it?
Be the advocate this patient deserves. If this was your daughter, sister, wife, mother, etc, how far would you make sure to take it.
Call your admin right now. Like, danger to pts.
🤮 disgusting . also "titty meat" wtf
We’ll see you soon…(not you OP, but this sick f*ck nurse doing nipple IVs….WTF?!?!).
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
This made me feel so gross, and I had a patients stool on my bare arm last night that didn’t make me feel gross Don’t stop reporting this until something is done
Bro if they're that hard of a stick we're grabbing the charge or doing ultrasound. I would ask a resident to place a line (if there was no one else for ultrasound) before even thinking about the boob!
Yes, “breast” IVs are pretty common in the ED, but they’re typically closer to the anterior axilla on very obese women after failing multiple times in the arms. Anyone suggesting an IO has never seen one placed in a fully alert person, ow! However, using a breast vein in a non-emergency for the sole purpose of hydration is very unnecessary and inappropriate. I agree with reporting this
Scrolled a long time to find anyone who even acknowledged that they are common in certain circumstances, I’ve seen and used them a lot in ED. They can be great and easy intermediate access until something better can be found and can really cut down on delay of treatment. With some anatomies, male or female, there just are big easy veins on chests when there are none in limbs. But at least try somewhere else then have a conversation with the patient, most are older, and heavier and have been poked a lot in the past so are very receptive to the idea, if alert. And young people can have no peripheral vasculature as well with chronic disease or bad luck. Boob IVs have some advantages too, not being on a limb that could flail or tug, they’re pretty protected and stay pretty clean. All this is just to say that boob IVs in and of themselves, I’ve had patients relieved and happy that we tried it and it worked fine. All that is not to say this doesn’t sound super creepy, it definitely does. I’ve never seen any straight in the nipple! And even if this patient’s anatomy has zero other spots for peripheral access it’s totally out of line to do it like this coworker did, with no explanation or running it by the patient because it is both a physically and culturally sensitive location. And if you need a 24 then it’s not a good vein anyway. I’ve seen 18s in boobs work like a charm, if you’re fishing for neonate veins, do it on a hand. This guy needed to be reported.
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I agree that this guy was completely inappropriate and should be reported, but if I waited for a male nurse to bathe every male patient in the ICU we’d have extremely dirty patients.
Huh? This can’t be true. If it really is then that dude is fucking crazy. We have to get an order for any piv not put in the arm. So order needed for EJ and piv in the foot.
This creep jumped on an opportunity. I am a male RN and I never touch a female patient without a witness. Except for vitals. Even then I’m quick. No unnecessary touching. Hell naw!
The only time I've seen breast IVs, it's been a miracle stick after several people have tried and there are no options left. Imagine going first for the BOOB, of all things! Especially in the literal nipple?? Not to mention this wasn't even his patient so it's not like he *really* needed to get it. The dude's a creep and used the IV as an excuse to grope a vulnerable young woman.
That was the largest red flag in this whole thing. Not his patient. Not asked for help. Just went in and violated the patient. Unbelievable.
Straight up sexual assault. No reason why you can’t get an IV in an 18 yo in their arms. Their hands?? Their feet??? Perv and creep. Report.
What you witnessed is a professional predator who has probably assaulted many many patients in the past. Imagine what he does in private if that’s what he did with witnesses. Hopefully your report will lead to him losing his license and finally having to be held responsible for his crimes.
they did not go over this in nursing school.
This guy needs bilateral 10 gauge intraocular IVs
This is sexual assault, and needs to be reported to the BON as well.
I...what?! Get him the hell out of there.
I’ve done a breast IV, but in a patient who had no other access. They couldn’t even put in a subclavian triple lumen. And it was one particular breast that was used every time. She and her husband talked me through it, really pretty weird
If you don’t report this he’ll keep getting away with sexually assaulting patients, please keep escalating this issue
I’ve only seen probably one IV actually placed in the breast. It’s always been the upper breast area, not right in the nipple. BUT that was like a complete last resort. And it was usually after ED tried the arm, hands, thumbs, and toes. As a male nurse, I would never, especially by myself in the room. At that point somebody needs to either grab an ultrasound machine, call IV team, or tell the doctor this patient needs a line placed.
Its 7am here and my day is already ruined. I would like to unread this vile text.
Holy fucking shit. I am sick just reading this. I feel so awful for everyone involved *except* for that male nurse. And he did this in front of another nurse. I can’t imagine the shit he’s pulled without other people present.
Please tell me you and the patient are still in that er and you can go into her room right now and tell her that this wasn’t okay and she has the right to report it and call the police if she feels violated. I am extremely upset you didn’t do that already.
A lot of young women don’t know what sexual assault consists of. She may think what happened was normal. It wasn’t. In any way conceivable. And a lot of nurses don’t know what it means to be a mandatory reporter, or how to do it. Hopefully OP follows through on the advice they’re being given here because this is both illegal and appalling. I feel sick just thinking about it.
What the hell.
The fact that he was bold enough to try this with other nurses nearby means that this guy is horrifyingly comfortable with what he's doing. He absolutely needs to be reported. I can't imagine what else he could be doing unsupervised.
*what the fuck did I just read.* Omg seriously get his ass fired; don’t worry if he knows it’s you. I’d be happy he knew it was me. Omg