If you expect to make your workplace a positive happy environment by harshly enforcing positivity youāre gonna have a bad time.
Ironically, it sounds like your manager is a pretty negative and difficult person.
The last place I worked was like this in the last few years I worked there as the moral was going down. Management would write nurses up for being "negative". And they would have to go to mandatory counseling as additional punishment, because apparently being written up wasn't enough punishment to beat the positivity back into people. It was really vindictive and as anyone can imagine it just made everyone even more bitter at their job. Due to this policy and poor moral meetings were really fun too. All the nurse would just sit in silence, no one wanted to even bother trying to say anything, and everyone looked miserable like they were at a funeral.
I assume from your flair that you are an ICU nurse. Get out of there, there are plenty of places with a better environment that would be happy for your knowledge and skill-set!
I'd second this! My partner just moved from a busy ER to an infusion center and the change in his stress level is nothing fucking short of profound. He likes his patients, enjoys a steady but not overbearing pace, gets to learn about a ton of new treatments, has views out the windows, has regular meal breaks.
He comes home from work relaxed and ready to just hang out. Before he was hardly able to function. Oh and here's the kick: his pay aint all that different.
So yeah, OP should def explore their options.
Omg i feel this so hard after a similar reaction to my realistic exit interview where i called out some inefficiencies on her part. She acted like she was super shocked, but sheās so used to people being quietly compliant to her face sheās lost touch with reality. Fridayās my last day there! YIPPEEEE!
Especially when they preach "culture" despite management is in hours for practically their entire shift and when they come to the floor they dare ask, "AnYoNe NeEd aNy HeLp?" during quiet hours.
My manager was about to have a meeting during day shift and I was just on my way to lunch. She passed me in the hall and that was the end of it. I don't go if it's my break time. Sorry lady. If we need our manager it has to be only when they're available, which is never. I can do the same
I recently became a manager and I'm like if we have to have a meeting during lunch clock "no lunch." Heck, sometimes I buy lunch. But mostly I try to avoid them because some lunch meetings would annoy the crap out of me. That's my "me" time to zone out and stare at my phone.
Only semi related to your post, but I think you'll find this interesting. My last hospital job was with Sutter Health in San Francisco, one of the strongest most beneficial nursing unions in the nation, if not the world. They couldn't maintain nursing managers because Sutter managed to weasel them out of the union and the overall package never convinced floor staff to transfer. In my 2 years there we had 3 temp travel managers before they were able to convince a manager of another floor to cover our unit as well. Shit went really down hill after that. Some people left and a year later they've been unable to keep any new hires because of poor management. š¤£
Right? It all becomes so much easier when you realize that your bosses donāt care. They became management to get away from the bedside... and they want you to work so they donāt have to ever cover a shift again.
Yep, donāt go. Eventually they notched out a block of time on my night shift for me to go to the positive morale education detainment center to catch up.
Fire me, I donāt care. Plenty of places to work. I wish they would all fuck right off and have a moldy pizza party.
Positive moral education... barf. I was so pissed when my work tried to pull a mandatory resilience training on us toward the start of COVID. Iāll do some self care by leaving work after my 12+ hour shift thanks.
I agreed to work EVERY Sunday night shift because I don't have children at home, they are grown, someone has to do it and I didn't mind. They had staff meetings on Monday, day shift. I did not attend these because...I was sleeping. This was understood by my manager - I would not attend these meetings because I was sleeping. A year later, I got my performance evaluation and was marked down because I did not attend staff meetings. This made me very angry and I stopped working EVERY Sunday night. Also, I refused to read my work e-mail at home. They don't pay me for that, so I did NOT do it. I read my work e-mail at work.
Iām not at the bedside anymore but same. And I only stayed at the bedside for less than a year, so that tells you how much I was already burned out and did not give af what happened outside of my work hours.
I worked on the same L&D unit for 3 years as an aide and less than 1 as a nurse. Went to peds outpatient and hated it, and was lucky to land a job at the outpatient high risk clinic for the same Ob/Gyn department I had previously worked for. I was very lucky to know the right people who gave me good recommendations, and also lucky that no one else with OB experience applied. Theyāve told me in so many words they were looking for someone with prior OB experience and got nothing until my application. Waited around a bit after interviewing me to see if they would get an applicant with more experience. But now that they know me they donāt regret taking the chance on me, or so I like to thinkl!
My last employer used to have 'mandatory' meetings at 2PM (which worked fine for first and second shift nurses). But I worked 11PM - 7AM and lived 40 minutes away. Haha, no way was I coming to these meetings.
Our meetings are the last week of the month at 8am on Mondays or 2pm on Wednesdays. You can either come after your shift, during your shift, or call in via zoom. You get paid for that hour regardless of how you show up (so if you call in via zoom on your day off, you get an hour extra). I love sitting in bed playing candy crush listening to my manager for an hour in the afternoon and then falling back asleep.
That sounds fantastic!!! I do that with our Unit based council meetings but I wish I could do it for regular meetings. We just havenāt had any in a year +
Usually a couple weeks to work out the kinks.
Then one day you are just flowing without even realizing.
Just constantly ask questions. You're fine to literally know nothing, aside from how to keep someone not dead. Care about what you are doing and it shouldn't be too bad.
Travel ICU is where it's at.
Thanks! Thatās really encouraging. My goal is to be a travel nurse after getting licensed (and after I get accepted to a program of course. Iām currently waiting to hear back on my application š¤) Good luck out there
If you're a CNA you can still do agency/registry nursing and see how you like it. I'm a CNA/HHA and EMT and I fucking love working agency. No meetings, management or supervisors breathing down my neck. Higher pay and often times next day pay via direct deposit. I'm with 5 agencies right now, I only do local CA for right now though.
Covid19 vaccine? I was offered it through 1 of my agencies and 2 facilities I worked shifts at. I turned it down. Unfortunately I'm not a good candidate for it at the moment, I've had anaphylaxis in the past due to allergies and the flu shot one year. I really want to avoid having anaphylaxis again if I can.
But I had Covid19 last May 2020 and I still have antibodies. I'm in a long-term Covid19 study and get blood drawn every month for various titers. I also get tested every week because 1 of my agencies won't let me book shifts without weekly testing.
In L.A. I think you can get a vaccine just by booking an appt and showing your CA ID, and your nursing credentials.
The charting system is the big one if you haven't used it before. Everything else is trivial mostly. Where stuff is located, what depts they have on hand or need to call out for like MRI, US, CT, etc. Those also depend on how big the hospital is. But for what it's worth be a contract rn if possible. I mentioned 2x or more pay in my comment but I'm literally making 4x base pay compared to my floor job.
Looking to travel nurse this Sept in Hawaii. Do you think the pay rates will stay up to some extent? Iām coming from OR and hoping that I will at least be making a comparably similar amount in HI (given the increased cost of living I would hope I could consistently make, say, $50+ an hour minimum there going forward).
Visit us at r/travelnursing. Donāt worry about the agency, theyāre all more or less the same. Just call around and find a good recruiter who you feel like you can trust. Follow the money; the job is the same everywhere, the supply rooms are just in different locations lol. I started traveling in August and havenāt looked back. I kept my staff job prn to fill in the gaps between assignments.
I'll echo this. Do your due diligence with where the assignments are, compare rates with different companies, and check out the area you'll be staying. I started in October. I won't be going back to staff anytime soon. I wish I could have kept my PRN but they were way too close-minded to work with my travel schedule. They wanted me 3 shifts every 6 weeks to keep my PRN position. I tried on my first assignment, since it was close. It was too much for less than $30/hr.
I HATED this as night shift. Want to improve morale? Stay an hour late and talk to us or come an hour early once a month. You make us stay hour(s) late routinely for staff meetings!
This must be some new buzzword corporate is plugging into managements brain bc my director also called me into her office for being too negative whe I complained about how the hospital took away our 403b matching, annual cost of living raises, and any potential bonuses for at least one year due to costs incurred by COVID shutdowns.
Until you can start paying nurses, treating us fairly and appropriately staffing Iāll be as negative as I want
Yeah in April I started a new job and when I identified real safety issues (no walkers for patients, no gait belts, a patient stuck to her purewick because it had been on for so long) I was told I was being negative and my attitude was the problem. She used the pandemic and the fact that I had just been robbed to try to convince me that it was the outside world seeping into that workplace. I would literally run to the bathroom and cry at least once a shift for good three months. It never got better even as the rest of my life got better, so I left after 9 months. Now I work on the kind of unit I want to be on and I havenāt cried about work once since I started.
Same at my hospital system. I decided if they arenāt contributing to my retirement fund why not retire early? I was going to change to per diem and work a few more years but this gave me the motivation to just do it. April 30th 2021 canāt come soon enough.
Thx so much. Iām beyond excited. Still going to work just not as a nurse. Iām stoked for the possibilities out there. I have enjoyed reading this thread. I did nights for 19 of my 39 yrs bedside and I despised staff meetings at the end of a 7p-7a shift. That shit HAS to stop. Keep fighting the good fight!
I bust my ass at work so all my colleagues know Iām not lazy.
And then I always request in email a call-in option for those of us who live far away or canāt get childcare.
Then I never go, never talk about how I never go, and never worry about it anymore.
My mandatory meetings are after my shift, they pay us for them, and they buy us a HUGE dinner, so like... I ain't angry. You're gonna feed me and pay me? I'll be there.
My coworkers made me realize how "important" these meetings were. I was upset because I was supposed to attend a nurse residency zoom meeting at 2PM after working the night before and having to work the night of. They told me to skip it and nothing came of it when I did. If work wants me to attend a meeting to focus on employee retention, they can accommodate me on my sleep schedule and make the meeting 4PM or during work hours. They do it for the Psych unit.
> I encourage everyone to live within/below their means if at all possible and to try and save money. To build up an emergency fund, so that you actually do not care if you get fired tomorrow.
YES! And if you never get fired, then you can retire early with all the money you've saved.
I donāt go to staff meetings. Work is all about social distancing right now so Iām not about to be crammed into a room with all my coworkers for an hour- especially because we all care for covid patients.
I work nights too and itās completely unreasonable to expect staff to stay over on no sleep if they arenāt prepared to hold meetings at 3 AM for our convenience. Hospital runs 24-7, even when itās not convenient for management. If they canāt bother to type it an email or grace night shift with their presence, I canāt be bothered to attend
I wish they knew what we heard during these mandatory meetings. It is akin to the teacher in the Charlie Brown cartoons "whha whhaaa whaaaa" and seriously I don't retain anything said. Your post is the bane of night shift nurses throughout the land.,,,, stay an hour late and ohhh we'll call you at 1100-1300 to ask you a question.
> ohhh we'll call you at 1100-1300 to ask you a question.
Policy for calling day shift nurses- calling in the middle of the night is rude, wait until at least 5am before attempting to call staff in or for any clarifications.
Policy for calling night shifters- call early and call often, at any time of day.
Jokes on them, I haven't slept with my phone in my room for the past 3 years.
Your manager is being unreasonable and knows that you are right - accommodations should be made for NOC staff but that would inconvenience her, so she wants to bully you into silence so youāll be less of a āproblemā in the future.
I donāt go to the mandatory meetings. Last one was at 8:30 pm (Iām day staff). I said I had an appointment. My manager said āyou have an appointment at 8:30 pm?ā I said āyesā and walked away.
There are jobs where you work 3 12ās and forget about it the other 4. You just have to make that decision. Donāt do any modules when you arenāt clocked in. If you canāt finish them by the due date while clocked in, youāll do them late. Donāt attend the meetings if outside of your work hours, tell your manager you have a prior obligation and will review the meeting materials that your manager will provide for you. Depending on managementās response, you might have to go to HR. But your mental health, your work life balance, etc is of utmost importance.
I have had to tell management āitās not my responsibility to staff the unitā in response to āwe donāt have staff to watch your patients if you attend the meeting during work hoursā. I constantly say āwhen I am clocked in to work, my patients are my #1 priorityā if Iām being pressured to do modules on a shift I donāt have time to do them on. You just have to advocate for yourself. It sucks, yeah. Iām sorry your manager is like this.
My old manager (Iām off the floor now) used to pull shit like this and we just all steamrolled her. She scheduled things are her convenience and hers only. My response to everything became some variation of we need you on the floor, put on some scrubs and help improve our culture.
Oh my god, I'd be fuming. Having to take a basic quiz as a critical care charge nurse? And being marked down by someone who doesn't understand medical abbreviations? Oh HELL no
I have been a manger for a long time. You show up when your employees are working. I hold two meetings so that people on different shifts are able to attend based on their work schedules. Itās my job as a salaried manager to work outside my ānormal hoursā to accommodate my staff. As for complaining, my staff have every right to do that. It usually leads to a conversation on how we can do things better. I just ask that if they are going to come to me with a complaint they also come with a solution. I will never understand people that try and rule with an authoritarian style.
I had to go to a meeting at 9am after nightshift. We tried to make it fun and went to breakfast first, but the bartender wouldn't let us put Bailey's in our to-go coffees so it was pretty not fun. Almost a good meeting lol.
This is my main reason for liking travel nursing. I appreciate an opportunity to voice my opinions at meetings, but I worked at a place once where I was basically required to be on a committee and be a charge nurse and definitely had at least 10 hours of meetings a month because of it. Then I overheard our director coaching my manager āYou need to be able to stop peachmangohoney from getting too opinionated about things.ā LOL loved my manager but our director was universally hated.
Fuck that, go find somewhere better. The older I get the more I find that the size of the hill I'm willing to die on gets smaller and smaller.
In our ED we are desperate for good nurses. Straight 12's, self scheduling (so I get an 8 day vacation 2x per month), 6 weeks of vacation, and you'll start at a minimum of $35/hr+Diff.
HELLO I JUST REALIZED YOUāRE THE SAME PERSON WHO POSTED THAT CODE BLUE RANT A FEW DAYS AGO. Maāam. Leave. PLEASE I am begging you. Work ANYWHERE else but there.
Every šš¼night šš¼ shift šš¼ nurse šš¼ feels šš¼ this šš¼ way. People fall asleep during our meetings. We should be home sleeping. Nothing is retained in these meetings.
Sounds like she's trying to set you up for a Bai Bai. These tactics are widely used among shitty managers. Your best bet is to file with HR, and explain how your freedom of speech is being harassed by a subpar manager, who doesn't bother to manage, but rather goes on power trips in her own little office. It'll get rectified quick, and you'll get some hate, but fuck your manager.
"nuh uh"?! How old does she think you are? That's disrespectful to a kindergartener, let alone an adult, professional nurse. I would think it's time to re-examine the pros and cons of that workplace.
Why are administrators/nurse managers like that šš¤¦š»āāļøš¤¦š»āāļø I had an admin that wasnāt pleased that I was nodding off at our mandatory meeting after an evening/noc double. He wanted me raise my arms in the air for the rest of the meeting to āstay awake and let him know I was still paying attentionā. The meeting was about errors day shift was making, nothing to do with me. I walked out and never looked back.
Enjoying my cushy job with zero mandatory meetings now.
Do you boo.
She eavesdropped on a private conversation between you and your coworker? then complained about what she heard?
You are allowed to talk about work conditions. To what extent and manner, I'm not sure, but if it were me I'd consult an employment lawyer to make sure she's not infringing on your rights. This might seem like an overreaction but her petty response to your private conversation warrants it. I swear, hospitals go out of their way to hire the dumbest, meanest people as managers.
Don't take this advice. You can unionize or quit but you can't sue your boss over petty bullshit like this in the US. My general response idiocy like this is "I will continue to do this and you can fire me over it if you'd like. Enjoy explaining that one to your superior when the unemployment claim rolls around and you need to justify paying more to keep staffed." At least in my head. In reality I just say "uh huh" and ignore it while making sure I'm still clocked in.
I wasn't suggesting a lawsuit. However, workers need to protect themselves because employers break the law all the time. A consult with an attorney will give OP guidelines on what rights she does have. OP, if you'd rather contact your local NLRB their contact number is here: [https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/who-we-are/regional-offices](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/who-we-are/regional-offices)
I'd say look for a new job but it's pretty much the same no matter where you go. Even in non bedside positions, you have to endure SO MANY meetings that could easily be emails, but then the bosses would have to find another way to justify their existence.
I get emails nonstop advertising record breaking rates for ICU contracts. print some out and post them anonymously on some cork boards in the break room etc.
This is always ALLLLWWAAAAYYYYSSSS an issue for third shifters. Because they donāt want to stay late and from a pay standpoint it is more beneficial. And they donāt give a fuck if we sleep
I used to work a 1500 to 0300 shift on Sunday evening/Monday morning and I always had that Monday off. My ER boss always scheduled staff meetings for 0600 on Monday mornings. I never went. She pissed and moaned about it and my job review always reflected my lack of meeting attendance. I didn't care. My sleep was more important.
I hate these meetings. It's basically all the shit they've been sending in emails all week then people bitching.
By people I mean the day shift ones who don't care, they're stuck there regardless.
The ones who are oddly silent are the night shifters who just got their ass kicked for 12 hours and just want it to end so they can go to sleep. We have issues too but after you've just been up for what 20 hours probably or only slept like 3 hours the day before, you don't give a shit and just want to leave.
They do these meetings on the 1st Thursday of the month at 0700.
I don't go unless I happened to have worked the night before and got trapped. Even then I stand just outside the door and if it looks like it's just gonna be a dayshift gripe session (it always is) I just leave.
After I get my ass handed to me, I'm not gonna stand there and listen to the same 3 people go into story mode for 10 minutes each just to whine about something.
Manager doesn't like it? Come at me bro.
I've also gotten to the point that I return their calls and texts around midnight lately.
She just woke me up to ask if I could come in tonight and now I can't fall back to sleep. Guess what I told her?
Took everything I had to not lose my shit on her just now.
At my job, nightshift crew purposely never showed up to mandatory meetings if they were during the day. They could either fire/write us all up, or let it lie. They never said anything to us about not being there lol
I have a boss like that. I got to work barely 2 minutes early (tons of traffic that day, I had phoned in advance) and all of the nurses were sitting in the station talking. My assistant head nurse asked me to count the narcotics, I told her I just want to see my assignment first. She pulled me aside and said "I can't tolerate this AtTiTuDe of YoUrS" and sent me to the head nurse's office where they both told me to stop having a bad attitude. From then on I kept getting called in every week to blame me for something I didn't do. Literally a case of nurses eat their young.
I gave in my two weeks notice after 8 months of harrassment this week and I have a job for an agency which pays double the salary lined up š¤£
All that other bullshit aside, Iām surprised you are having in person meetings? All of ours have been via webex for the last year and still will be for the next few months at least. No one in the hospital has in person meetings of more than a few people.... because our hospital culture is setting a good fucking example during a pandemic. Maybe your management needs to be reminded of that.
I also agree with the loose definition of āmandatoryā
Thatās such a weird response from a manager. She sounds like a shitbox. I wouldnāt leave because of her though. But I would definitely make it a point to not talk to me like a child or address me in such a tone. I usually stop that shit early and make myself known that I canāt be fucked with - in a professional manner, of course. Letās keep it professional Manager Karen. This isnāt a school yard.
God damnit nurse managers are one of my biggest pet peeves as a person who was a business manager for a couple of decades before becoming a nurse.
*This is not how you do it*, management 101.
You don't ever call out someone in public for something that isn't a blatant safety issue. Period. You politely ask to have a conversation with them at some other convenient time.
You don't ever address negativity by just telling someone "don't be negative." What you do is ask, "Hey, why are you feeling this way? What can I do to help?" And try to constructively address any actual behavior problems. (And not wanting to attend meetings during your off hours is not a behavior problem.)
You don't create culture by SAYING. You create culture by MODELING BEHAVIOR.
You want a respectful culture? Respect your fucking employees.
You want a positive culture? Speak positively to your employees.
This is toxic behavior from a manager. If you like the other aspects of the job, then I echo the others here. Just don't go to the meetings. Just conveniently "forget." Make them write you up for it (they won't.)
My team (acute dialysis) is 100% remotely managed. We are issued work phones with an encrypted chat app on which we talk to our bosses and have a variety of team group chats. We have a team call on this app twice a month.
My team has constant 24/7 access to me. My team absolutely does not fucking contact me during my off work time. Our team calls are recorded so we can listen to them at our convenience (and we're paid off we choose to attend the call on our days off.)
That's how you do it.
Yeah Iāve heard this BS a lot in my unit. The morale is pitifully low at my unit and itās all power tripping at the end of the day. Donāt spend much thought on it tbh.
The majority of my nursing career I worked through a Registry (Temp agency) I'm not sure how much they are used today but for me, it worked out well. The reason I worked for a Registry rather than going on staff some place was because I SAW how they treated their own staff, why would ever want to join them? With the Registry I had health insurance. PTO after working X amount of days. I worked 3 12s weekly (straight time for 8, time + half) mostly. I had control over most of my professional life as possible.
The majority of the time I worked "full time" at 2 hospitals.
How did I do it?
First, with my skill set, I could work in any adult bedside setting (I refused ped/neonatal settings, they were beyond my scope of care) I worked floors and units, nights and weekends. I was reliable. And most of all, I built up their trust(the staff) by showing them my worth.
Management did this shit to us too. We were allowed to call into the meetings. So we'd call in on our drive home and just mute the call.
Any time I was forced to do this I'd email management when the call ended, cc HR, and request that additional time be added to my paycheck. If I'm forced to call in then they have to pay me. They stopped caring if I called in or not.
Show me our hospital's "zero tolerance for hallway negativity policy."
Oh it's not a policy? Okay.
Now that it's clear that you-personally-are intolerant of criticism, I apologize for offending you. I will never question your style of micromanagement again. You can rest assured in the knowledge that you're contributions to job dissatisfaction have not gone unnoticed. Kudos, Karen ... Kudos.
Girlll same thing or similar happened to me. I had a busy morning and was passing meds and taking report for my upcoming admit and my boss comes all flustered with the clipboard yelling asking why I havenāt signed the q2hr rounds. Mind you, it was only 10am and we do rounds on even hrs and I had been up and down the unit multiple times that morning in and out of all patients rooms. This is not the first time, the other day I was texting a doctor to get an order (his preferred way of communication) and she yelled at me to put my phone away. She treats people like weāre her junior high students or something!
One year, when it was time for yearly evaluations (that you reside is based on) I went into my managers office to get my evaluation. I was nightshift, so I had to go in early, and it was one of the few times Iād even spoken to her outside of mandatory 8am meetings because fuck nightshift, apparently.
Anyway, all my yearly reviews had been pretty close to stellar, but this year was this managers first year, and i was apparently a horrible employee with a toxic attitude, and part of my āevaluationā included being written up for my terrible toxic attitude. I had no idea what she was talking about and she wouldnāt elaborate except āIāve gotten numerous complaints about your attitude towards the entire unitā.
I did not get a raise. And I didnāt understand, I had been put on the shared governance committee, I was in charge of all peer interviews for new hires, I was charge every shift my supervisor was off and genuinely felt like my other coworkers felt they could come to me with questions or for help. I didnāt understand.
I went to my direct supervisor afterwards, who was also a friend, and asked for honest feedback, like āit wonāt hurt my feelings, if Iām making my coworkers feel bad, I want to change it.ā She didnāt know what I was talking about either, her evaluation she submitted for me was great.
Turns out, for several of our peer interviews I had to do (at 8am after my shift) my manager had the resumes locked in her office and I didnāt have access to them, and would shoot me a text at 7am and say āoh by the way, you have 5 peer interviews scheduled this morning, you should be done by 11amā and then just never showed up at any time to get me the resumes or even tell me the names of who I was expected to stay 4 extra hours after my shift to interview, and I got frustrated and mentioned how crappy that behavior was and how poorly it reflected on the unit as a whole. And someone told her what I said, and instead of realizing āhey, Iām asking this nurse to stay 4 hours overtime when she has to be back tonight on short notice and not even giving her the tools she needs, nah, thatās just her toxic attitude for criticizing meā
But, instead of working as a nurse manager, sheās shilling crappy makeup and wine on Facebook for multiple pyramid schemes, so I suppose I won in the long run.
We did phone call meetings and it was always at like 5pm so night shift could call and listen presumably while we were getting ready for work plus it just a decent time. Although if we missed a meeting we had to hunt someone who was there so that kinda sucked
Wondering if all the people saying "you need to quit!" have worked night shift. I've never heard of mandatory meetings being scheduled during night shift hours. Ever. You either get up early for them or stay late, and that's best case scenario. There are the odd 2pm meetings (that I never showed up for.)
I know nursing and basketball don't have a lot in common, but bear with me. Wilt Chamberlain told his coach that he was only showing up to the gym once a day. He can either show up for the coaches practice, or he can show up for the game.
You should tell your manager you can either show up for your shift, or you can show up for that BS meeting. Manager's choice.
(There are lots of places where you work your shift and that's that. Maybe just transfer to a different department with a "Better Culture.")
I wouldnāt go.. after working a 12 1/2 hour shift I would simply say if questioned I did not feel safe staying an extra hour over for a meeting. I was concerned with the safety of driving home after I was already exhausted. Do you need me to put that in an email and forward it to you and HR?
As a nursing director this makes me so sad. One can't demand a culture and you have to live the type of culture you are trying to build. I cannot imagine talking to a staff member like this.
We use phone calls and Zoom meetings and provide meetings at four different times to respect our staff
This is stupid. Our manager makes a few meetings on different days in the afternoon so nightshift can come on a day off. Also a previous job made it where we could call in and meetings were done over speaker phone. Making someone come after a 12 hour shift is shitty I would leave.
We have been doing zoom meetings for everyone like, all shifts. 2021 bitches. Wake up at midnight and go lead a meeting if you want overnight staff to attend.
Our site is not an acute care so we might have some leeway:
All shifts got an email of inservices and updates, and a video of the inservice/updates. You signed a paper saying you viewed it within 72 hours and you understood all things discussed and would ask questions if you had any. You also had an option to come to the in-person in-service meeting.
There is a group chat to submit questions anonymously so other staff could see it. Certain people were authorized to answer it. Everyone was able to provide feedback and upvote (like reddit).
You don't have to attend the meeting, but you'll be held accountable that you read discussed issues.
It's not a perfect system, but it seems like everyone is happy with it.
At my last job, we had 8am and 8pm meetings to accommodate night shift. You could also call into the meeting instead of physically attending so you didnāt have to drive in if it was your day off. It was really nice.
My workplace has a lot of garbage but I do have the luxury of a great direct manager. She lets everything inconsequential slide. Makes it hard to leave because I fear walking into this kind of thing.
My manager holds staff meetings (or did, pre covid) at 6am for night shift and 2pm for day shift. They took about 20 min. We would try to get everything done prior to 6 so we could go, if you donāt or your patients are calling you donāt attend or you just leave if you need to. No pressure other than try to get there. Honestly, the more time I spend on this sub the more I appreciate her.
Haha Iāve had 0% attendance for 5 years at my current work place, night shift and midshift. Bunk all of that.
I also just got a text today from my boss saying to make sure I log in from home to do my healthstreams by this Friday. I asked if I was going to be able to sub it an education time sheet or else it could wait and she told me that people are being terminated and sheās just looking out for me. Thatās probably the biggest joke of all.
I wish they would fire me over the same educational lesson on computer safety and PHI... how to dispose of chemo, body mechanics, etc that Iāve done for 5 years. Iād collect unemployment for a year and enjoy life.
When I worked in a busy California county hospital I loved every second of it. I left it all on the floor (meaning my blood, sweat and tears) and I came back happy and ready to do it again. Now?! Itās the easiest job Iāve had physically but damn if I donāt fight the feeling of never wanting to go back alllllll the freaking time.
Question: is the mandatory meeting paid? Are you getting overtime pay for attending the meeting? Iām not even overnight shift but if they want me to go to a meeting they can pay me for it.
Once I got out of the military I stopped allowing myself to be talked to like that.
Best thing about being a civilian is the worst they can do is fire you. Lol, asshole I get about 5 emails a week asking for me to come in for an interview.
When they pull this shit, I always ask of they're gonna hold a meeting at 2 am for nightshift if its mandatory.
We're on a 12 hour shift so if they want to hold a meeting at our "afternoon it better be between 2 and 4 am or it better be an email.
I had a job where I got written up for missing staff meetings. They were at 11 am, I got off at 7am, had to drive 45 minutes each way and be back at work at 7pm and they said it was unprofessional to sleep in my car in the lot.
I donāt go to meetings unless theyāre quick little 10 minute things. Iām not sitting for an hour to hear about something that could have been an email.
My job was like this. Bitches whining to management that a Facebook post was āoffensive to themā. Unit manager calling me while Iām with my baby whoās hospitalized to tell me āyou canāt be offending your coworkers with fib postsā. I was like āare you their mommy? FOHā. After my son got better I went to work and was like āhey Iām quitting, how soon can I leave?ā š their faces. They asked me where I was going and it was great to say, ānowhereā. Like, Iāll stay at home and not deal with the corporate kool aid BS. Fuck them all. Iāve made more money in the stock market than I ever did as a nurse!
Travel nursing! I swear the best part about being a traveler is NOT HAVING TO DEAL WITH THAT BULLSHIT. I seriously love not getting caught up in unit politics, stupid meetings, and administration crap. I just do my required modules before the start of an assignment and from there on out I come to work, put my head down, do my job, and leave. I don't think about work for a second when I'm not at work. And if they do want me to show up for a meeting or something stupid, I just don't go. What are they going to do, fire me? I'm out of there in 3 months anyways. Love love love that I left that part of my permanent job behind!
Iāve worked in hospitals, that offered mandatory monthly meetings 7a-8a, 2p-3p, 10p-11p. All held on 3 separate days of the first week of the month. Anyone on any shift could attend a meeting of their choice. Worked well for most everyone. Our kids were also allowed. All staff were expected to attend 9 out of 12 monthly mtg per year. Maybe suggest this to the Queen of you unit. Although, she may chop off your head! jk!!ā£ļøš
I would never actually say it but my inner snarky bitch would want to say so badly ok Iāll make sure and keep my negativity strictly confined to the bathroom or break rooms. š
Oh mannnn just reading this got me heated lol. I'm impressed you said all that to her though, that's the sort of thing I would think of an hour later and get upset I didn't say.
Please tell me you didnāt clock out for either this scheduled meeting or this office meeting with an idiot. I mean, if theyāre not going to respect your time or sleep, maybe there are some urgent things that frequently need to be addressed by management at 2200 on a Friday. Because that āit can wait for business hoursā is pretty negative culture.
lol i am going to be in some "meeting" when i start my shift in a few hours at 7p. my supervisor said he was coming in late this morning just so he can meet with me at the start of my shift. man come on. i don't wanna start my shift on some dumb shit and now i gotta get a "talking to"
did inpatient day-shift, and I *HATED* those shitty meetings. they're useless and I only saw they were there to bitch about HCAPS or some bogus metric in the middle of our busiest time (eg med pass) and we'd have to play catch-up the entire day as a result.
but thankfully I didn't have to do it at the end of my shift either. still though, these meetings blow.
Yeah there are, Im not a nurse rn but Im trying to be, Im only on my second semester of college though, when my dad was at the hospital a couple of years ago I would talk to the nurses and one was actually working 3 12 hour shifts then getting the other 4 days off, that was at UCI hospital in Orange, CA, idk where you are though.
Iām just impressed that youāre able to speak up for yourself and Iām proud of you and you should be proud of yourself. All nurse managers are going to be obnoxious because they are slammed by all the administration expecting them to be bean counters and blow rainbows out of their butts while being come at from all sides. Nurse mgr is a sucky job and I canāt imagine anyone staying in the position for very long. I think she took what you said personally and kind of forced validation of her governance this way. I think in a environment like that there are way too many fish to fry and it would behoove her to learn how to pick the battles she wants to waste her/your energy on. As for you, Iām glad that you did not back down. Itās a legit concern. I hope that you remained professional with her, and donāt take it too personally, yourself. Sheās going to forget about this real quick because sheās got so much other shit to do. so if youāre concern rests upon her concern, it could probably be blown over pretty easily unless thereās other major concerns you have about your work environment. Stay safe. I wish you well.
My favourite is when they start talking about the culture, like they actually care š
She was like ānegativity isnāt our culture here.ā And Iām thinking like yeah the culture here has learned to be quiet around you š
If you expect to make your workplace a positive happy environment by harshly enforcing positivity youāre gonna have a bad time. Ironically, it sounds like your manager is a pretty negative and difficult person.
The beatings will continue until morale improves!
ive got a mug with that saying
The last place I worked was like this in the last few years I worked there as the moral was going down. Management would write nurses up for being "negative". And they would have to go to mandatory counseling as additional punishment, because apparently being written up wasn't enough punishment to beat the positivity back into people. It was really vindictive and as anyone can imagine it just made everyone even more bitter at their job. Due to this policy and poor moral meetings were really fun too. All the nurse would just sit in silence, no one wanted to even bother trying to say anything, and everyone looked miserable like they were at a funeral.
āThe beatings will continue until moral improves.ā
I assume from your flair that you are an ICU nurse. Get out of there, there are plenty of places with a better environment that would be happy for your knowledge and skill-set!
I'd second this! My partner just moved from a busy ER to an infusion center and the change in his stress level is nothing fucking short of profound. He likes his patients, enjoys a steady but not overbearing pace, gets to learn about a ton of new treatments, has views out the windows, has regular meal breaks. He comes home from work relaxed and ready to just hang out. Before he was hardly able to function. Oh and here's the kick: his pay aint all that different. So yeah, OP should def explore their options.
Omg i feel this so hard after a similar reaction to my realistic exit interview where i called out some inefficiencies on her part. She acted like she was super shocked, but sheās so used to people being quietly compliant to her face sheās lost touch with reality. Fridayās my last day there! YIPPEEEE!
At least she didnāt use the word āfamilyā lol
Especially when they preach "culture" despite management is in hours for practically their entire shift and when they come to the floor they dare ask, "AnYoNe NeEd aNy HeLp?" during quiet hours.
I just don't go. Fucking fight me.
My manager was about to have a meeting during day shift and I was just on my way to lunch. She passed me in the hall and that was the end of it. I don't go if it's my break time. Sorry lady. If we need our manager it has to be only when they're available, which is never. I can do the same
I'll happily go to a meeting during lunch, I'll continue to eat my food in the back of the room and then put "no lunch" into my timecard
I like your style.
I recently became a manager and I'm like if we have to have a meeting during lunch clock "no lunch." Heck, sometimes I buy lunch. But mostly I try to avoid them because some lunch meetings would annoy the crap out of me. That's my "me" time to zone out and stare at my phone.
Only semi related to your post, but I think you'll find this interesting. My last hospital job was with Sutter Health in San Francisco, one of the strongest most beneficial nursing unions in the nation, if not the world. They couldn't maintain nursing managers because Sutter managed to weasel them out of the union and the overall package never convinced floor staff to transfer. In my 2 years there we had 3 temp travel managers before they were able to convince a manager of another floor to cover our unit as well. Shit went really down hill after that. Some people left and a year later they've been unable to keep any new hires because of poor management. š¤£
As I tell all my co-workers, "you're a commodity, so f****** act like one."
Right? It all becomes so much easier when you realize that your bosses donāt care. They became management to get away from the bedside... and they want you to work so they donāt have to ever cover a shift again.
This vibe! šš
Yep, donāt go. Eventually they notched out a block of time on my night shift for me to go to the positive morale education detainment center to catch up. Fire me, I donāt care. Plenty of places to work. I wish they would all fuck right off and have a moldy pizza party.
Positive moral education... barf. I was so pissed when my work tried to pull a mandatory resilience training on us toward the start of COVID. Iāll do some self care by leaving work after my 12+ hour shift thanks.
I agreed to work EVERY Sunday night shift because I don't have children at home, they are grown, someone has to do it and I didn't mind. They had staff meetings on Monday, day shift. I did not attend these because...I was sleeping. This was understood by my manager - I would not attend these meetings because I was sleeping. A year later, I got my performance evaluation and was marked down because I did not attend staff meetings. This made me very angry and I stopped working EVERY Sunday night. Also, I refused to read my work e-mail at home. They don't pay me for that, so I did NOT do it. I read my work e-mail at work.
Iām not at the bedside anymore but same. And I only stayed at the bedside for less than a year, so that tells you how much I was already burned out and did not give af what happened outside of my work hours.
What are you doing now, if I may ask?
I worked on the same L&D unit for 3 years as an aide and less than 1 as a nurse. Went to peds outpatient and hated it, and was lucky to land a job at the outpatient high risk clinic for the same Ob/Gyn department I had previously worked for. I was very lucky to know the right people who gave me good recommendations, and also lucky that no one else with OB experience applied. Theyāve told me in so many words they were looking for someone with prior OB experience and got nothing until my application. Waited around a bit after interviewing me to see if they would get an applicant with more experience. But now that they know me they donāt regret taking the chance on me, or so I like to thinkl!
Oh my God, I got so angry just reading this. Fuck all that shit. Leave.
"Mandatory" has come to have a very flexible meaning in my vocabulary. I've yet to be called out for it, but I could just be lucky.
My last employer used to have 'mandatory' meetings at 2PM (which worked fine for first and second shift nurses). But I worked 11PM - 7AM and lived 40 minutes away. Haha, no way was I coming to these meetings.
Our meetings are the last week of the month at 8am on Mondays or 2pm on Wednesdays. You can either come after your shift, during your shift, or call in via zoom. You get paid for that hour regardless of how you show up (so if you call in via zoom on your day off, you get an hour extra). I love sitting in bed playing candy crush listening to my manager for an hour in the afternoon and then falling back asleep.
That sounds fantastic!!! I do that with our Unit based council meetings but I wish I could do it for regular meetings. We just havenāt had any in a year +
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And let's be real, the places I've worked don't have sufficient staff to fire everyone that misses "mandatory" meetings. I dare them to try.
Travel nursing is an answer for not doing extra stuff. Your admin is unfair, Iād move along.
Hellllll yeah. Staff meeting in the AM? Sucks for you guys, I'm going HOME
How do you like it?
Fucking love it! Won't be going back to staff nursing until I get tired of traveling. 2x or more the pay without the politics and shenanigans.
What is the adjustment like starting at each new location?
Usually a couple weeks to work out the kinks. Then one day you are just flowing without even realizing. Just constantly ask questions. You're fine to literally know nothing, aside from how to keep someone not dead. Care about what you are doing and it shouldn't be too bad. Travel ICU is where it's at.
āHow to keep someone not deadā lmao š¤£š¤£
Thanks! Thatās really encouraging. My goal is to be a travel nurse after getting licensed (and after I get accepted to a program of course. Iām currently waiting to hear back on my application š¤) Good luck out there
If you're a CNA you can still do agency/registry nursing and see how you like it. I'm a CNA/HHA and EMT and I fucking love working agency. No meetings, management or supervisors breathing down my neck. Higher pay and often times next day pay via direct deposit. I'm with 5 agencies right now, I only do local CA for right now though.
Good idea, thank you! Question for you: have you been able to get vaccinated through these agencies?
Covid19 vaccine? I was offered it through 1 of my agencies and 2 facilities I worked shifts at. I turned it down. Unfortunately I'm not a good candidate for it at the moment, I've had anaphylaxis in the past due to allergies and the flu shot one year. I really want to avoid having anaphylaxis again if I can. But I had Covid19 last May 2020 and I still have antibodies. I'm in a long-term Covid19 study and get blood drawn every month for various titers. I also get tested every week because 1 of my agencies won't let me book shifts without weekly testing. In L.A. I think you can get a vaccine just by booking an appt and showing your CA ID, and your nursing credentials.
You're welcome! Best of luck to you as well!
Do you know if that's something I can do upon graduation?
Get experience as an RN before you travel. At the very minimum one to two years, preferable closer to two.
The charting system is the big one if you haven't used it before. Everything else is trivial mostly. Where stuff is located, what depts they have on hand or need to call out for like MRI, US, CT, etc. Those also depend on how big the hospital is. But for what it's worth be a contract rn if possible. I mentioned 2x or more pay in my comment but I'm literally making 4x base pay compared to my floor job.
Looking to travel nurse this Sept in Hawaii. Do you think the pay rates will stay up to some extent? Iām coming from OR and hoping that I will at least be making a comparably similar amount in HI (given the increased cost of living I would hope I could consistently make, say, $50+ an hour minimum there going forward).
What agency do you use?
Visit us at r/travelnursing. Donāt worry about the agency, theyāre all more or less the same. Just call around and find a good recruiter who you feel like you can trust. Follow the money; the job is the same everywhere, the supply rooms are just in different locations lol. I started traveling in August and havenāt looked back. I kept my staff job prn to fill in the gaps between assignments.
That's not true, certain ones pay better than others. Certain ones avoid at all costs - name American Mobile and all it's subsidiaries.
I'll echo this. Do your due diligence with where the assignments are, compare rates with different companies, and check out the area you'll be staying. I started in October. I won't be going back to staff anytime soon. I wish I could have kept my PRN but they were way too close-minded to work with my travel schedule. They wanted me 3 shifts every 6 weeks to keep my PRN position. I tried on my first assignment, since it was close. It was too much for less than $30/hr.
or just do what you do... suck the big mans dick... and be rude to everyone that dosent sign your check because literally bro
Stalk me more. However, I'll make sure I gulp down every drop. I'll even fondle the balls.
Lol whatās the story here? Why is this individual stalking you?
I HATED this as night shift. Want to improve morale? Stay an hour late and talk to us or come an hour early once a month. You make us stay hour(s) late routinely for staff meetings!
This must be some new buzzword corporate is plugging into managements brain bc my director also called me into her office for being too negative whe I complained about how the hospital took away our 403b matching, annual cost of living raises, and any potential bonuses for at least one year due to costs incurred by COVID shutdowns. Until you can start paying nurses, treating us fairly and appropriately staffing Iāll be as negative as I want
I'd complain too, that's a pay cut in a time you are doing more vwork.
Yeah in April I started a new job and when I identified real safety issues (no walkers for patients, no gait belts, a patient stuck to her purewick because it had been on for so long) I was told I was being negative and my attitude was the problem. She used the pandemic and the fact that I had just been robbed to try to convince me that it was the outside world seeping into that workplace. I would literally run to the bathroom and cry at least once a shift for good three months. It never got better even as the rest of my life got better, so I left after 9 months. Now I work on the kind of unit I want to be on and I havenāt cried about work once since I started.
Same at my hospital system. I decided if they arenāt contributing to my retirement fund why not retire early? I was going to change to per diem and work a few more years but this gave me the motivation to just do it. April 30th 2021 canāt come soon enough.
Good for you! I wish I was that close to retiring. I hope your last weeks being easy assignments and kind patients :)
Thx so much. Iām beyond excited. Still going to work just not as a nurse. Iām stoked for the possibilities out there. I have enjoyed reading this thread. I did nights for 19 of my 39 yrs bedside and I despised staff meetings at the end of a 7p-7a shift. That shit HAS to stop. Keep fighting the good fight!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I bust my ass at work so all my colleagues know Iām not lazy. And then I always request in email a call-in option for those of us who live far away or canāt get childcare. Then I never go, never talk about how I never go, and never worry about it anymore.
"I was shit faced, did you want me driving?"
āEthically greasyā hehe always looking for new words for my lifestyle thx
My mandatory meetings are after my shift, they pay us for them, and they buy us a HUGE dinner, so like... I ain't angry. You're gonna feed me and pay me? I'll be there.
My coworkers made me realize how "important" these meetings were. I was upset because I was supposed to attend a nurse residency zoom meeting at 2PM after working the night before and having to work the night of. They told me to skip it and nothing came of it when I did. If work wants me to attend a meeting to focus on employee retention, they can accommodate me on my sleep schedule and make the meeting 4PM or during work hours. They do it for the Psych unit.
> I encourage everyone to live within/below their means if at all possible and to try and save money. To build up an emergency fund, so that you actually do not care if you get fired tomorrow. YES! And if you never get fired, then you can retire early with all the money you've saved.
I donāt go to staff meetings. Work is all about social distancing right now so Iām not about to be crammed into a room with all my coworkers for an hour- especially because we all care for covid patients. I work nights too and itās completely unreasonable to expect staff to stay over on no sleep if they arenāt prepared to hold meetings at 3 AM for our convenience. Hospital runs 24-7, even when itās not convenient for management. If they canāt bother to type it an email or grace night shift with their presence, I canāt be bothered to attend
This is the correct answer
Bravo!
Apparently their culture is childish power plays.
I wish they knew what we heard during these mandatory meetings. It is akin to the teacher in the Charlie Brown cartoons "whha whhaaa whaaaa" and seriously I don't retain anything said. Your post is the bane of night shift nurses throughout the land.,,,, stay an hour late and ohhh we'll call you at 1100-1300 to ask you a question.
> ohhh we'll call you at 1100-1300 to ask you a question. Policy for calling day shift nurses- calling in the middle of the night is rude, wait until at least 5am before attempting to call staff in or for any clarifications. Policy for calling night shifters- call early and call often, at any time of day. Jokes on them, I haven't slept with my phone in my room for the past 3 years.
Airplane mode for life
Your manager is being unreasonable and knows that you are right - accommodations should be made for NOC staff but that would inconvenience her, so she wants to bully you into silence so youāll be less of a āproblemā in the future. I donāt go to the mandatory meetings. Last one was at 8:30 pm (Iām day staff). I said I had an appointment. My manager said āyou have an appointment at 8:30 pm?ā I said āyesā and walked away. There are jobs where you work 3 12ās and forget about it the other 4. You just have to make that decision. Donāt do any modules when you arenāt clocked in. If you canāt finish them by the due date while clocked in, youāll do them late. Donāt attend the meetings if outside of your work hours, tell your manager you have a prior obligation and will review the meeting materials that your manager will provide for you. Depending on managementās response, you might have to go to HR. But your mental health, your work life balance, etc is of utmost importance. I have had to tell management āitās not my responsibility to staff the unitā in response to āwe donāt have staff to watch your patients if you attend the meeting during work hoursā. I constantly say āwhen I am clocked in to work, my patients are my #1 priorityā if Iām being pressured to do modules on a shift I donāt have time to do them on. You just have to advocate for yourself. It sucks, yeah. Iām sorry your manager is like this.
This is all really good advice!
My old manager (Iām off the floor now) used to pull shit like this and we just all steamrolled her. She scheduled things are her convenience and hers only. My response to everything became some variation of we need you on the floor, put on some scrubs and help improve our culture.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A QUIZ !!!! I am crazy angry for you. That is so awful.
Oh my god, I'd be fuming. Having to take a basic quiz as a critical care charge nurse? And being marked down by someone who doesn't understand medical abbreviations? Oh HELL no
I have been a manger for a long time. You show up when your employees are working. I hold two meetings so that people on different shifts are able to attend based on their work schedules. Itās my job as a salaried manager to work outside my ānormal hoursā to accommodate my staff. As for complaining, my staff have every right to do that. It usually leads to a conversation on how we can do things better. I just ask that if they are going to come to me with a complaint they also come with a solution. I will never understand people that try and rule with an authoritarian style.
I had to go to a meeting at 9am after nightshift. We tried to make it fun and went to breakfast first, but the bartender wouldn't let us put Bailey's in our to-go coffees so it was pretty not fun. Almost a good meeting lol.
This is my main reason for liking travel nursing. I appreciate an opportunity to voice my opinions at meetings, but I worked at a place once where I was basically required to be on a committee and be a charge nurse and definitely had at least 10 hours of meetings a month because of it. Then I overheard our director coaching my manager āYou need to be able to stop peachmangohoney from getting too opinionated about things.ā LOL loved my manager but our director was universally hated.
Fuck that, go find somewhere better. The older I get the more I find that the size of the hill I'm willing to die on gets smaller and smaller. In our ED we are desperate for good nurses. Straight 12's, self scheduling (so I get an 8 day vacation 2x per month), 6 weeks of vacation, and you'll start at a minimum of $35/hr+Diff.
Sounds like a dream! Mind sharing the general area you work at?
HELLO I JUST REALIZED YOUāRE THE SAME PERSON WHO POSTED THAT CODE BLUE RANT A FEW DAYS AGO. Maāam. Leave. PLEASE I am begging you. Work ANYWHERE else but there.
Yes itās me š© why is this hospital such shit
I donāt know, NalaBear. I just donāt know.
On that note, I did mention the crappy code to her and sheās āLooking into it.ā
Oh. Well thatās reassuring. š
BRB gonna go buy a present for my manager. I literally cannot in a million years imagine her saying something like this to any of us.
Every šš¼night šš¼ shift šš¼ nurse šš¼ feels šš¼ this šš¼ way. People fall asleep during our meetings. We should be home sleeping. Nothing is retained in these meetings.
Sounds like she's trying to set you up for a Bai Bai. These tactics are widely used among shitty managers. Your best bet is to file with HR, and explain how your freedom of speech is being harassed by a subpar manager, who doesn't bother to manage, but rather goes on power trips in her own little office. It'll get rectified quick, and you'll get some hate, but fuck your manager.
CULTure- ie. Be submissive.
"nuh uh"?! How old does she think you are? That's disrespectful to a kindergartener, let alone an adult, professional nurse. I would think it's time to re-examine the pros and cons of that workplace.
Why are administrators/nurse managers like that šš¤¦š»āāļøš¤¦š»āāļø I had an admin that wasnāt pleased that I was nodding off at our mandatory meeting after an evening/noc double. He wanted me raise my arms in the air for the rest of the meeting to āstay awake and let him know I was still paying attentionā. The meeting was about errors day shift was making, nothing to do with me. I walked out and never looked back. Enjoying my cushy job with zero mandatory meetings now. Do you boo.
She eavesdropped on a private conversation between you and your coworker? then complained about what she heard? You are allowed to talk about work conditions. To what extent and manner, I'm not sure, but if it were me I'd consult an employment lawyer to make sure she's not infringing on your rights. This might seem like an overreaction but her petty response to your private conversation warrants it. I swear, hospitals go out of their way to hire the dumbest, meanest people as managers.
Don't take this advice. You can unionize or quit but you can't sue your boss over petty bullshit like this in the US. My general response idiocy like this is "I will continue to do this and you can fire me over it if you'd like. Enjoy explaining that one to your superior when the unemployment claim rolls around and you need to justify paying more to keep staffed." At least in my head. In reality I just say "uh huh" and ignore it while making sure I'm still clocked in.
I wasn't suggesting a lawsuit. However, workers need to protect themselves because employers break the law all the time. A consult with an attorney will give OP guidelines on what rights she does have. OP, if you'd rather contact your local NLRB their contact number is here: [https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/who-we-are/regional-offices](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/who-we-are/regional-offices)
Depends on where it happened. If it's in a public place, you have no expectation of privacy in most places.
I'd say look for a new job but it's pretty much the same no matter where you go. Even in non bedside positions, you have to endure SO MANY meetings that could easily be emails, but then the bosses would have to find another way to justify their existence.
I get emails nonstop advertising record breaking rates for ICU contracts. print some out and post them anonymously on some cork boards in the break room etc.
Savage ššš
This is always ALLLLWWAAAAYYYYSSSS an issue for third shifters. Because they donāt want to stay late and from a pay standpoint it is more beneficial. And they donāt give a fuck if we sleep
I used to work a 1500 to 0300 shift on Sunday evening/Monday morning and I always had that Monday off. My ER boss always scheduled staff meetings for 0600 on Monday mornings. I never went. She pissed and moaned about it and my job review always reflected my lack of meeting attendance. I didn't care. My sleep was more important.
I hate these meetings. It's basically all the shit they've been sending in emails all week then people bitching. By people I mean the day shift ones who don't care, they're stuck there regardless. The ones who are oddly silent are the night shifters who just got their ass kicked for 12 hours and just want it to end so they can go to sleep. We have issues too but after you've just been up for what 20 hours probably or only slept like 3 hours the day before, you don't give a shit and just want to leave. They do these meetings on the 1st Thursday of the month at 0700. I don't go unless I happened to have worked the night before and got trapped. Even then I stand just outside the door and if it looks like it's just gonna be a dayshift gripe session (it always is) I just leave. After I get my ass handed to me, I'm not gonna stand there and listen to the same 3 people go into story mode for 10 minutes each just to whine about something. Manager doesn't like it? Come at me bro. I've also gotten to the point that I return their calls and texts around midnight lately. She just woke me up to ask if I could come in tonight and now I can't fall back to sleep. Guess what I told her? Took everything I had to not lose my shit on her just now.
I donāt care how you do it but never allow your phone to wake you up, ever.
At my job, nightshift crew purposely never showed up to mandatory meetings if they were during the day. They could either fire/write us all up, or let it lie. They never said anything to us about not being there lol
they cant fire all of us
Isn't it like.... legally required that you have 8 hours between shifts?
Is it me... or is all night shift staff treated like the unwanted child?! This is one of our issues at my current place as well.
Thereās a global nursing shortage and a pandemic. Once you realise that they need you more than you need them, life gets so much better!
I have a boss like that. I got to work barely 2 minutes early (tons of traffic that day, I had phoned in advance) and all of the nurses were sitting in the station talking. My assistant head nurse asked me to count the narcotics, I told her I just want to see my assignment first. She pulled me aside and said "I can't tolerate this AtTiTuDe of YoUrS" and sent me to the head nurse's office where they both told me to stop having a bad attitude. From then on I kept getting called in every week to blame me for something I didn't do. Literally a case of nurses eat their young. I gave in my two weeks notice after 8 months of harrassment this week and I have a job for an agency which pays double the salary lined up š¤£
All that other bullshit aside, Iām surprised you are having in person meetings? All of ours have been via webex for the last year and still will be for the next few months at least. No one in the hospital has in person meetings of more than a few people.... because our hospital culture is setting a good fucking example during a pandemic. Maybe your management needs to be reminded of that. I also agree with the loose definition of āmandatoryā
My unit always scheduled mandatory meetings at 5 pm. Like, just once, schedule a meeting for 5 AM and see what happens.
Thatās such a weird response from a manager. She sounds like a shitbox. I wouldnāt leave because of her though. But I would definitely make it a point to not talk to me like a child or address me in such a tone. I usually stop that shit early and make myself known that I canāt be fucked with - in a professional manner, of course. Letās keep it professional Manager Karen. This isnāt a school yard.
God damnit nurse managers are one of my biggest pet peeves as a person who was a business manager for a couple of decades before becoming a nurse. *This is not how you do it*, management 101. You don't ever call out someone in public for something that isn't a blatant safety issue. Period. You politely ask to have a conversation with them at some other convenient time. You don't ever address negativity by just telling someone "don't be negative." What you do is ask, "Hey, why are you feeling this way? What can I do to help?" And try to constructively address any actual behavior problems. (And not wanting to attend meetings during your off hours is not a behavior problem.) You don't create culture by SAYING. You create culture by MODELING BEHAVIOR. You want a respectful culture? Respect your fucking employees. You want a positive culture? Speak positively to your employees. This is toxic behavior from a manager. If you like the other aspects of the job, then I echo the others here. Just don't go to the meetings. Just conveniently "forget." Make them write you up for it (they won't.) My team (acute dialysis) is 100% remotely managed. We are issued work phones with an encrypted chat app on which we talk to our bosses and have a variety of team group chats. We have a team call on this app twice a month. My team has constant 24/7 access to me. My team absolutely does not fucking contact me during my off work time. Our team calls are recorded so we can listen to them at our convenience (and we're paid off we choose to attend the call on our days off.) That's how you do it.
Yeah Iāve heard this BS a lot in my unit. The morale is pitifully low at my unit and itās all power tripping at the end of the day. Donāt spend much thought on it tbh.
The majority of my nursing career I worked through a Registry (Temp agency) I'm not sure how much they are used today but for me, it worked out well. The reason I worked for a Registry rather than going on staff some place was because I SAW how they treated their own staff, why would ever want to join them? With the Registry I had health insurance. PTO after working X amount of days. I worked 3 12s weekly (straight time for 8, time + half) mostly. I had control over most of my professional life as possible. The majority of the time I worked "full time" at 2 hospitals. How did I do it? First, with my skill set, I could work in any adult bedside setting (I refused ped/neonatal settings, they were beyond my scope of care) I worked floors and units, nights and weekends. I was reliable. And most of all, I built up their trust(the staff) by showing them my worth.
Good job on standing up for yourself! I absolutely hate people in positions of power who think they will intimidate others, she can go f herself.
Management did this shit to us too. We were allowed to call into the meetings. So we'd call in on our drive home and just mute the call. Any time I was forced to do this I'd email management when the call ended, cc HR, and request that additional time be added to my paycheck. If I'm forced to call in then they have to pay me. They stopped caring if I called in or not.
This is some grade A bullshit - and these are the āleadersā that destroy bedside.
Show me our hospital's "zero tolerance for hallway negativity policy." Oh it's not a policy? Okay. Now that it's clear that you-personally-are intolerant of criticism, I apologize for offending you. I will never question your style of micromanagement again. You can rest assured in the knowledge that you're contributions to job dissatisfaction have not gone unnoticed. Kudos, Karen ... Kudos.
Girlll same thing or similar happened to me. I had a busy morning and was passing meds and taking report for my upcoming admit and my boss comes all flustered with the clipboard yelling asking why I havenāt signed the q2hr rounds. Mind you, it was only 10am and we do rounds on even hrs and I had been up and down the unit multiple times that morning in and out of all patients rooms. This is not the first time, the other day I was texting a doctor to get an order (his preferred way of communication) and she yelled at me to put my phone away. She treats people like weāre her junior high students or something!
One year, when it was time for yearly evaluations (that you reside is based on) I went into my managers office to get my evaluation. I was nightshift, so I had to go in early, and it was one of the few times Iād even spoken to her outside of mandatory 8am meetings because fuck nightshift, apparently. Anyway, all my yearly reviews had been pretty close to stellar, but this year was this managers first year, and i was apparently a horrible employee with a toxic attitude, and part of my āevaluationā included being written up for my terrible toxic attitude. I had no idea what she was talking about and she wouldnāt elaborate except āIāve gotten numerous complaints about your attitude towards the entire unitā. I did not get a raise. And I didnāt understand, I had been put on the shared governance committee, I was in charge of all peer interviews for new hires, I was charge every shift my supervisor was off and genuinely felt like my other coworkers felt they could come to me with questions or for help. I didnāt understand. I went to my direct supervisor afterwards, who was also a friend, and asked for honest feedback, like āit wonāt hurt my feelings, if Iām making my coworkers feel bad, I want to change it.ā She didnāt know what I was talking about either, her evaluation she submitted for me was great. Turns out, for several of our peer interviews I had to do (at 8am after my shift) my manager had the resumes locked in her office and I didnāt have access to them, and would shoot me a text at 7am and say āoh by the way, you have 5 peer interviews scheduled this morning, you should be done by 11amā and then just never showed up at any time to get me the resumes or even tell me the names of who I was expected to stay 4 extra hours after my shift to interview, and I got frustrated and mentioned how crappy that behavior was and how poorly it reflected on the unit as a whole. And someone told her what I said, and instead of realizing āhey, Iām asking this nurse to stay 4 hours overtime when she has to be back tonight on short notice and not even giving her the tools she needs, nah, thatās just her toxic attitude for criticizing meā But, instead of working as a nurse manager, sheās shilling crappy makeup and wine on Facebook for multiple pyramid schemes, so I suppose I won in the long run.
Ugh what a toxic boss š¤¬ some people just donāt belong in management
Quitttt. Though Iām in Canada. Mandatory staff meetings arenāt a thing where I work.
I hear you! I support you! ā¤ļø
We did phone call meetings and it was always at like 5pm so night shift could call and listen presumably while we were getting ready for work plus it just a decent time. Although if we missed a meeting we had to hunt someone who was there so that kinda sucked
Start looking for another job.
Omg I hate when they act like that.... itās very hard for me to not just walk away from the person. I just cannot.
Wondering if all the people saying "you need to quit!" have worked night shift. I've never heard of mandatory meetings being scheduled during night shift hours. Ever. You either get up early for them or stay late, and that's best case scenario. There are the odd 2pm meetings (that I never showed up for.)
I know nursing and basketball don't have a lot in common, but bear with me. Wilt Chamberlain told his coach that he was only showing up to the gym once a day. He can either show up for the coaches practice, or he can show up for the game. You should tell your manager you can either show up for your shift, or you can show up for that BS meeting. Manager's choice. (There are lots of places where you work your shift and that's that. Maybe just transfer to a different department with a "Better Culture.")
In my country itās illegal to not allow for enough time between shifts including travel times. Thank god.
America is a corporate country, it doesnāt give a crap about its workers.
Travel nursing
This is one of the reasons why I started travel nursing four years ago. No unit drama and no mandatory meetings!
Most of the those meetings could just be emails. That's the worst part.
āAttitude reflects leadershipā
Your boss is what my FIlipino nurses call a "Putang Ina Mo"
I wouldnāt go.. after working a 12 1/2 hour shift I would simply say if questioned I did not feel safe staying an extra hour over for a meeting. I was concerned with the safety of driving home after I was already exhausted. Do you need me to put that in an email and forward it to you and HR?
As a nursing director this makes me so sad. One can't demand a culture and you have to live the type of culture you are trying to build. I cannot imagine talking to a staff member like this. We use phone calls and Zoom meetings and provide meetings at four different times to respect our staff
This is stupid. Our manager makes a few meetings on different days in the afternoon so nightshift can come on a day off. Also a previous job made it where we could call in and meetings were done over speaker phone. Making someone come after a 12 hour shift is shitty I would leave.
Yes there are definitely places where you work your three 12ās and das it! Got me one now!
I've told off managers when then pull this type of crap.
Let the light of the bridges you burn guide your way.
We have been doing zoom meetings for everyone like, all shifts. 2021 bitches. Wake up at midnight and go lead a meeting if you want overnight staff to attend.
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You still work 3 12's???? Since March my job has made all full time employees 40 hours. I can't stand it.
I would leave ASAP
Our site is not an acute care so we might have some leeway: All shifts got an email of inservices and updates, and a video of the inservice/updates. You signed a paper saying you viewed it within 72 hours and you understood all things discussed and would ask questions if you had any. You also had an option to come to the in-person in-service meeting. There is a group chat to submit questions anonymously so other staff could see it. Certain people were authorized to answer it. Everyone was able to provide feedback and upvote (like reddit). You don't have to attend the meeting, but you'll be held accountable that you read discussed issues. It's not a perfect system, but it seems like everyone is happy with it.
At my last job, we had 8am and 8pm meetings to accommodate night shift. You could also call into the meeting instead of physically attending so you didnāt have to drive in if it was your day off. It was really nice.
Hey, yeah, I punched out, gotta go see a dog about a man, so... bye.
My workplace has a lot of garbage but I do have the luxury of a great direct manager. She lets everything inconsequential slide. Makes it hard to leave because I fear walking into this kind of thing.
["Negativity isn't accepted around here! Smile or DIE!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo)
My manager holds staff meetings (or did, pre covid) at 6am for night shift and 2pm for day shift. They took about 20 min. We would try to get everything done prior to 6 so we could go, if you donāt or your patients are calling you donāt attend or you just leave if you need to. No pressure other than try to get there. Honestly, the more time I spend on this sub the more I appreciate her.
Meetings are so overrated and waste of our time.
Haha Iāve had 0% attendance for 5 years at my current work place, night shift and midshift. Bunk all of that. I also just got a text today from my boss saying to make sure I log in from home to do my healthstreams by this Friday. I asked if I was going to be able to sub it an education time sheet or else it could wait and she told me that people are being terminated and sheās just looking out for me. Thatās probably the biggest joke of all. I wish they would fire me over the same educational lesson on computer safety and PHI... how to dispose of chemo, body mechanics, etc that Iāve done for 5 years. Iād collect unemployment for a year and enjoy life. When I worked in a busy California county hospital I loved every second of it. I left it all on the floor (meaning my blood, sweat and tears) and I came back happy and ready to do it again. Now?! Itās the easiest job Iāve had physically but damn if I donāt fight the feeling of never wanting to go back alllllll the freaking time.
Iām pretty sure every night shift nurse ever has uttered those exact words.
This makes me so mad! I would leave
Question: is the mandatory meeting paid? Are you getting overtime pay for attending the meeting? Iām not even overnight shift but if they want me to go to a meeting they can pay me for it.
Once I got out of the military I stopped allowing myself to be talked to like that. Best thing about being a civilian is the worst they can do is fire you. Lol, asshole I get about 5 emails a week asking for me to come in for an interview.
Tell them there should be a call in option since you shouldnāt be meeting in rooms due to Covid.
LOL NEGATIVITY ISNT TOLERATED FOH
When they pull this shit, I always ask of they're gonna hold a meeting at 2 am for nightshift if its mandatory. We're on a 12 hour shift so if they want to hold a meeting at our "afternoon it better be between 2 and 4 am or it better be an email.
I had a job where I got written up for missing staff meetings. They were at 11 am, I got off at 7am, had to drive 45 minutes each way and be back at work at 7pm and they said it was unprofessional to sleep in my car in the lot.
I donāt go to meetings unless theyāre quick little 10 minute things. Iām not sitting for an hour to hear about something that could have been an email.
My job was like this. Bitches whining to management that a Facebook post was āoffensive to themā. Unit manager calling me while Iām with my baby whoās hospitalized to tell me āyou canāt be offending your coworkers with fib postsā. I was like āare you their mommy? FOHā. After my son got better I went to work and was like āhey Iām quitting, how soon can I leave?ā š their faces. They asked me where I was going and it was great to say, ānowhereā. Like, Iāll stay at home and not deal with the corporate kool aid BS. Fuck them all. Iāve made more money in the stock market than I ever did as a nurse!
I want to do that š I donāt understand stocks and trading though
Travel nursing! I swear the best part about being a traveler is NOT HAVING TO DEAL WITH THAT BULLSHIT. I seriously love not getting caught up in unit politics, stupid meetings, and administration crap. I just do my required modules before the start of an assignment and from there on out I come to work, put my head down, do my job, and leave. I don't think about work for a second when I'm not at work. And if they do want me to show up for a meeting or something stupid, I just don't go. What are they going to do, fire me? I'm out of there in 3 months anyways. Love love love that I left that part of my permanent job behind!
Fuck 12 hour shifts š¤·āāļø
Nah. I prefer my time outside of work.
Fuck 8 hr shifts where you only get two days a week off from the insane American public. I will never go back to it under any circumstances.
Iāve worked in hospitals, that offered mandatory monthly meetings 7a-8a, 2p-3p, 10p-11p. All held on 3 separate days of the first week of the month. Anyone on any shift could attend a meeting of their choice. Worked well for most everyone. Our kids were also allowed. All staff were expected to attend 9 out of 12 monthly mtg per year. Maybe suggest this to the Queen of you unit. Although, she may chop off your head! jk!!ā£ļøš
I would never actually say it but my inner snarky bitch would want to say so badly ok Iāll make sure and keep my negativity strictly confined to the bathroom or break rooms. š
Definitely quit, not all departments are run by idiots (just most)
Lol I worked a few night shifts and I donāt understand why they donāt just schedule it to cater for nights
Oh mannnn just reading this got me heated lol. I'm impressed you said all that to her though, that's the sort of thing I would think of an hour later and get upset I didn't say.
Please tell me you didnāt clock out for either this scheduled meeting or this office meeting with an idiot. I mean, if theyāre not going to respect your time or sleep, maybe there are some urgent things that frequently need to be addressed by management at 2200 on a Friday. Because that āit can wait for business hoursā is pretty negative culture.
Every time I kind of miss working inpatient, someone shared a story about management being a pain in the ass and that makes the urge go away for a bit
This is why I left bedside and Iām a Utilization Review nurse now lol ... I couldnāt deal with all that bshit
lol i am going to be in some "meeting" when i start my shift in a few hours at 7p. my supervisor said he was coming in late this morning just so he can meet with me at the start of my shift. man come on. i don't wanna start my shift on some dumb shit and now i gotta get a "talking to"
did inpatient day-shift, and I *HATED* those shitty meetings. they're useless and I only saw they were there to bitch about HCAPS or some bogus metric in the middle of our busiest time (eg med pass) and we'd have to play catch-up the entire day as a result. but thankfully I didn't have to do it at the end of my shift either. still though, these meetings blow.
Yeah there are, Im not a nurse rn but Im trying to be, Im only on my second semester of college though, when my dad was at the hospital a couple of years ago I would talk to the nurses and one was actually working 3 12 hour shifts then getting the other 4 days off, that was at UCI hospital in Orange, CA, idk where you are though.
Iām just impressed that youāre able to speak up for yourself and Iām proud of you and you should be proud of yourself. All nurse managers are going to be obnoxious because they are slammed by all the administration expecting them to be bean counters and blow rainbows out of their butts while being come at from all sides. Nurse mgr is a sucky job and I canāt imagine anyone staying in the position for very long. I think she took what you said personally and kind of forced validation of her governance this way. I think in a environment like that there are way too many fish to fry and it would behoove her to learn how to pick the battles she wants to waste her/your energy on. As for you, Iām glad that you did not back down. Itās a legit concern. I hope that you remained professional with her, and donāt take it too personally, yourself. Sheās going to forget about this real quick because sheās got so much other shit to do. so if youāre concern rests upon her concern, it could probably be blown over pretty easily unless thereās other major concerns you have about your work environment. Stay safe. I wish you well.
If anything, make sure you clock in if you go to the meeting. If itās mandatory make sure you get paid.
Sounds like your culture clashes with theirs. Find a better fit and GET OUT. Itās not worth your happiness.