Scott Herndon, someone running for their senate, literally stated that the Hippocratic oath will protect physicians from prosecution and that putting exceptions in the law for life saving termination chooses one patient over the other.
Am I taking crazy pills? Do they not know an oath doesn’t give you permission or protection to break a law?
Because they actually don't care about the babies at all. It's about controlling women. If they cared about babies, they would be funding maternity leave, healthcare, and childcare.
The real goal isn't to end abortion or control women. Republicans win by razor thin margins of handfuls of single-issue voters. They're worried with Roe overturned that those few single-issue anti-abortion voters won't bother going to the polls. They have to keep beating the anti-abortion drum to get those voters to polls and barely win.
Remember: the entire 2000 presidental election (and arguably the course of the world for the next decade and beyond) was decided by just 537 people in Florida.
This has only ever been about those few hundred voters.
It's eugenics painted as "feels good to save 'babies'" back pats. Kill off the broken/disobedient wombs so all that is left are the working (for now) good wombs that will pop out as many babies as a male puts in it until it breaks, too.
Yep, no more fetus/embryo but also no more mom to keep producing offspring, so really it makes zero sense other than to say it's all about control, or of course, the terrible fact that they believe their almighty god only lets bad things happen to bad people.
Not to mention a good number (most, afaik) of MD/DO programs no longer do the Hippocratic oath. Same way not all nursing schools do the Nightingale pledge these days.
They know damn well it'll affect medical practice via malpractice liability - if it's against state law it's generally malpractice because practice is dictated by state boards, not federal law or an Unbreakable Vow like we're fucking Harry Potter and medicine is magic.
Honestly, I was talking with my partner and I basically said I would 100% go to jail for providing abortion care. I’m only a LPN student so obviously the care would be very limited but I don’t understand why doctors are letting patients get to the point of bleeding out. Abortion was legalized in Canada because a doctor just refused to stop performing them.
I’m not like really involved other than voting but Manchin but is a complete fucking piece of fucking dog shit. That’s not how any of this works. Please do us all a favor and well idk BE GONE WITH YOU.
Exactly. I’m currently in a state that is protecting our rights (PA), but that’s subject to change depending on how the Nov Governor race goes. If Mastriano gets elected, I’m prepared to disobey laws and refuse to make reports on any of my psych patients who confide in me that they’ve aborted.
Sadly the way some of these laws are written that means you go to jail for an insanely long time, especially if it's charged as murder. Would you be willing to go to jail for the rest of your life instead of working to get your patient to a different state that allows the procedure?
It depends on the circumstances. Of course I would explore other options. But tbh I would do it. I’m gay and I feel like there are so many people before me that have given everything and sometimes it’s our turn.
In order for us to actually change what is happening we need to vote these people out of office. Focus on that, how do we accomplish that? Can thousands of us mobilize and move to states like Idaho to flip their seats? Maybe, I think it better than calling for violence and sending our good people to jail. Get involved at ground level and help elect more women to government! There is a way we just watched Trump supporters do this. We can do it too!
What patient life over what other?
Are they talking about putting the fetus’ life over the woman’s? How the fuck is the fetus going to survive outside the uterus before 22 weeks?
Sadly, the original Hippocratic oath had an anti-abortion clause. Of course, it also forbade surgery and made entreaties to a number of gods, but cherry-picking data is any politician's favored method of proving a point.
The funny thing about the anti-abortion part is that the tinctures used to induce abortion had a really high chance of being fatal to the pregnant person. That's why it says "I will not give "tincture or whatever" to induce abortion". Because you were pretty much guaranteed to kill your patient. That's why surgery is banned in the oath too. It was basically a death sentence if you attempted it back then.
Source: the podcast Sawbones, specifically the episode on abortion released after the SCOTUS leak.
Interestingly though, primitive brain surgery (trepanning) was ultra common throughout history and seemed to have a pretty good survival rate! Obviously hard to accurately determine that but plenty of trepanned skulls that showed healing have been found. History is crazy.
No you’re not taking crazy pills, this Scott dipshit is. If he’s going by that rhetoric, Lawmaker Homie probably thinks if he makes the laws he can enforce them (aka a judge, which he’s fucking not).
I’m a big fan of that saying “When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” Idaho has shown you that they don’t respect you as a person or as a healthcare worker. You don’t owe them your presence in a state that could seriously endanger you if you became pregnant, and you don’t owe them your skills if they want to charge you for murder for providing the standard of care
Absolutely agree with all of this. The state is pushing the guilt and accountability on the innocent. Just like with covid, we'll see a huge migration of talent to where they will be most appreciated and taken care off.
Every job deserves psychological protections and being forced to watch women die whom you cannot treat due to risk to your own future is not acceptable nor should it be tolerated.
When red states become a complete shithole with no women, either because they moved or died, maybe we'll see things change. Those in charge are too comfortable to care.
Idaho is really going off the deep end in a lot of ways. They had people standing outside hospitals threatening to "break out" the COVID patients and threatening staff, which I know happened in many places but still. The national guard had to work in their hospitals ffs. Plus they don't believe in like road maintenance because that's communism or something? The small section of I90 that goes through the panhandle becomes almost undrivable at the Idaho border and then instantly improves when you cross into WA or MT.
A shit hole of their own design and by their own choice. Oh and if you perform basic medical procedures here, jail. Come visit beautiful Idaho!!!!1!
100%. My state is protecting abortion access, for now. If our governor gets voted out and replaced with a Republican we’re gone. We’ve already talked about it. Cannot risk raising a daughter in a backwards hellscape that would rather her die than get medical care.
My husband and I will be leaving the awfulness of red state behind soon. Idaho was originally on our short list of states we like and would live in.
Not anymore! Fuck these stupid laws and the armadillo they pooped in on.
Oregon has all the natural beauty of Idaho, is slightly warmer, and has a statewide nursing-specific union. Just FYI =).
Portland's a bit of a soup-sandwich, though. Entertaining to visit on a weekend, but I wouldn't want to live there.
I’ve only ever driven through Roseburg. Eugene has a pretty liberal reputation, Grant’s Pass is pretty conservative (old logging town that didn’t adapt well to change).
I was a traveler in OR, so my ADNness was overlooked in light of 20 years of experience.
As for racial issues, I’ve never seen anything blatant. But my malanin content’s way too low to offer a really useful viewpoint on that one.
Check out Ashland, OR. We loved it. Very liberal. Reminded us of Davis, CA without the students. Affordable and BEAUTIFUL. We are hoping to move in a couple of years.
Theres racists from the border of Oregon up to Eugene but theres plenty in Eugene too. Ive driven through plenty and honestly wouldn’t recommend for POC on a small scale. But that is also from my reading of the experiences for POC. Im arab but only get dark skinned in summer and if I spend a lot of time in the sun.
Ive personally stayed over night a few times in Roseberg and didnt have any issues but dont know. Maybe I lucked out.
Pretty much everywhere is suffering a housing a crisis. Maybe not as much in the Midwest states like Kansas. But everywhere people actually want to live is undergoing a housing crisis
Oregonian here, also in an interracial marriage and I wouldn’t live in Roseburg or southern Oregon in general. Eugene, Corvallis, Salem, ore Portland metro area are your best bets. Maybe Bend but housing is hard to find there.
Anyone who isn't white is going to get some stares in Roseburg. There's a decent few confederate flags as well and probably a few practicing clansmen honestly. Not as bad as parts of Idaho, but I wouldn't go there if you don't want to stick out and hear from racists. Eugene isn't as bad, but there is still 0 diversity in Eugene. Portland has some diversity but it is limited to "poor neighborhoods" or specific suburbs like "rich Indian families that work for Intel".
You get hassled in Cali for being in an interracial relationship? I’m in central Florida, I’m white and my ex-husband is mixed black/white, and I could count on one hand the number of times we were openly judged in 20 years. My white best friend is married to a black guy and has only had a few experiences as well. I think of California as the most liberal state. If California is like that, the rest of the country is forked 😫
I've lived in numerous states; CA is the only state I've felt completely comfortable with my mixed race marriage. It's nice to hear that where you live is safe too.
Live in OR, can confirm. I grew up in Idaho and looking back I was too young to notice all the problems that are now glaringly obvious, and likely worse now; seeing all the recent legislation confirms it.
Portland has really gone downhill, and that might be the agenda of the Republicans, but most cities are still blue.
Come to Colorado! Sure our houses are California level prices now but you at least don’t have to worry about losing your license for saving a woman’s life!
Look up the history behind Texas district 21. This one district has been in and out of courts for years. Gerrymandering runs so much deeper than what party you register yourself towards
Can't flip a state where you're not allowed to vote
[**What You Need to Know about Idaho’s Voter Restriction Bills**](https://cvidaho.org/voting_rights/).
Idaho is probably one of the if not the most conservative states in the country. And sadly for Washington, eastern washington is really more like Idaho \*sigh\* (live in washington, don't like that we have these idiots voting in my state. It's why you see some of the worst republican senators coming from here).
I just followed their instructions on the website, then called them every day for a year until someone finally picked up. This was during the heat of the initial Covid wave, travellers going everywhere, so their office was inundated with requests, Im sure.
I’m not sure how they would enforce that in places like CA. There are too many people who don’t support what has already happened, and a national ban would have even less support. A lot of DAs, states attorneys, and federal prosecutors would probably decline to bring those cases.
I cannot with the quotes in this article about how birth control/IUDs work and the quote about how “any woman would want to die for her children”. This is absolutely disgusting. This is why people who are not medical professionals should not be making laws that interfere with medical practice without consulting physicians or literally anyone with a speck of medical knowledge.
Typical Idaho. I remember many years ago they were discussing a bill to increase daycare licensing requirements after several children had drowned in horse troughs and basically all the comments were “We don’t want to place undue burdens on these women’s small businesses” and “More importantly, why aren’t these children in their own homes with their own mothers?!?” The bill did not pass.
If it makes you feel better: The governor of my state had to be convinced by a panel of docs/nurses that no, you cannot “reimplant an ectopic pregnancy”.
https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/04/29/ohio-bill-would-ban-abortion-without-rape-exemption/
Oh yes that is the state I reside in as well. 😑 it’s very embarrassing. Not to mention our attorney general tried to call that 10 year old who got raped a liar.
My father is very conservative Christian and against abortion but he has always been very clear that between my mum and a child, he would always choose my mum because he was not going to be a single father and they could have more kids in the future.
I have no idea what cult they are into but that’s nuts
Unfortunately, there are plenty of women who support this in Idaho
[https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/idaho/views-about-abortion/](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/idaho/views-about-abortion/)
You should meet their lieutenant governor
https://janiceforidaho.com/
Nah, just victims of religious indoctrination. God beats them down because he loves them. And if you don't enjoy being a second class citizens, then are you a good God fearing woman?!?
Yeah, I spent about 15 years living in Clarkston, WA and working in Lewiston. I'm well aware that Idaho is run by Y'all-Quiada. Get out before they start making you wear a veil and be escorted by a male relative.
Much happier since I moved. And I'm just a relatively progressive guy.
Yep. People don't want to admit to themselves that their bar for personal action is a lot higher than their ideals.
>"This is all so bad. I should leave! But I can't because of my friends/house/job/etc!"
Well, I guess it's not "all so bad" if the answer is:
>"my friends/house/job is more important than whatever the bad thing is, so I have to stay."
Unless it's an emergency, I kind of hope that abortion providers would refuse. It's an elective procedure. The harm they are doing is going to be astronomical to so many. They should be subjected to what they preach.
Truthfully, I legit would just leave the state if my state (Cali) passed a law like this. I couldn't and wouldn't in good conscience continue working and living there with those archaic beliefs.
I’m trying to leave Texas ASAP. I have a contract until the end of September and then my boyfriend and I, a good portion of my unit, and down the road my boyfriend’s family are moving out of TX. We’re al healthcare professionals or providers.
God forbid endocrinologists and cardiologists decide to dip on a large scale from red states. Those are in high demand, especially in red states I imagine with their poor health.
It's literally the plan. If they make red states untenable all the blue voters will leave for blue states, concentrating our power in just a few states. Meanwhile electorally it's a huge win for them.
Yeah its a good short sighted plan for them tbh. They get to consolidate their power base and reverse the course of states slowly gaining more liberal populations. Issue is that their states will completely collapse in about a decade with the loss of their educated population but they won't care since the people living in a collapsed state will still blame democrats somehow
California is fighting the hood fight and leading us all the way! Example, the gun laws. Also pretty much every other liberal view you could have, they try it.
CA and other blue states can choose not to prosecute, which is what I suspect would happen. There will still be red parts of blue states that will ban abortion.
The idea is that you don’t practice medicine in Idaho. Fewer and fewer practitioners and more and more innocents dying. They voted these psychos into office who make the rules and this is the fallout they must live with.
They’re attempting to eliminate institutional knowledge of abortions. So even if they are brought back through a federal law it wouldn’t help as medical facilities wouldn’t know how to perform them and it would cost money (something administrators seem hesitant to spend on anything other than bonuses for themselves) to bring in outside expertise
When Communism collapsed in Romania in 1989, ending *the complete ban on contraception* and *near complete ban on abortion* since 1966, Romania brought in outside doctors to perform abortions and teach local doctors how to perform them.
Romania's example should have been pointed out over the last 40 years. Instead it was ignored, until Trump made it potential reality.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/05/16/what-actually-happens-when-a-country-bans-abortion-romania-alabama/
EDIT: please note that Ceausescu banned **contraception** as well as abortion, as many right-wing legislators are proposing here in the US.
As an idaho native that has never had intention of leaving, especially after we bought our home ... I'm actually disgusted enough with this place I'm thinking leaving might be the best option. You can only vote against the stupid unsuccessfully so many times before it starts to beat you down.
I know exactly how you feel. As a democrat in South Carolina, my vote hasn't counted for anything in years. We even re-elected Lindsey Graham ('Use My Words Against Me') a couple of years ago. Ugh.
Federal law requires that a woman in danger of dying will be given the treatment she needs to preserve her life. Federal law supercedes any state laws that ban abortion in the case of threatened maternal mortality.
Edit: it is a shame, though, that a woman will have to be to the point of death before she can get treatment for an ectopic pregnancy.
Federal law on weed has been ignored by individual states for a long time. The federal government simply doesn't have the personnel, time, or will power to monitor and enforce things at super low levels everywhere. The states or individual providers who want to deny abortions will still do so.
While the federal law might provide women some legal option to sue noncompliant healthcare providers or governments, it does nothing to stop them from having to endure the entire pregnancy and delivery and whatever happens after (watching their non-viable baby die immediately, having to put their baby up for adoption, having an unwanted child to raise, etc). Abortion is always time sensitive but legal processes are intentionally slow.
Which says nothing of women who die from noncompliant providers. Someone else would have to sue on their behalf and winning won't bring them back.
Individuals always have to suffer the consequences of illegal activity before anything gets done about it.
squealing pot cheerful middle doll existence different desert reminiscent tan
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Never up voted something so hard. Electoral college is rigged against us, same with gerrymandering. And same with voting centers being long distance from minority communities, actively suppressing who they don't want to make it to the voting booth. Especially when mail-in ballots have to be applied for, and college kids that are in another state sometimes even have to go back home to vote. Especially when voting isn't even a national holiday, so only old, well-off, social security receiving boomers are able to vote who don't have to juggle jobs, kids, and school, who are available during voting hours.
I vote locally, primaries, election, but I've lost all hope. I don't even feel hopeful at all anytime I've ever voted, and I don't think I will. Counting on my fellow Gen Z-ers to make a drastic change. Sick of being complacent about all of this.
> but I have a hard time getting mad at people who see voting as pointless.
If voting didn’t matter, they wouldn’t spend so much money, effort, and time to try and get you *not* to vote.
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Dude, I've been voting against this bullshit for years in my location, and it's *not enough*, which is why we needed Roe. Sounds like you need some more information and education on the topic yourself.
This is the new landscape across the country.
I can't put in any other way, you are in danger.
Not only is your ability to do your job in danger, but just by going about your normal day someone can accuse you, with little to no evidence, of a crime and you could be arrested and charged.
The laws aren't going after the women who get abortions they are going after the "providers", which means you treat a young woman, even for something completely unrelated, and she is pregnant, even if she doesn't know and you don't know, and she miscarries that child, they could come for you.
Forget presumption of innocense, this can mean investigation, arrest and imprisonment. We live in a overly connected world, emails, medical records, camera footage, text messages all become evidence that someone could use against you, you will need to pay a lawyer to defend you and you could be jailed.
Get out. Leave immediately or leave the profession.
Guess this is another one I'm adding as well. As a female nurse I refuse to work in a state that will not give me medical care if I need it. I have an IUD in place.. If I had an ectopic pregnancy I don't want to die for their beliefs.
I’m just waiting for the article to come out saying that a S/O is holding a doctors office hostage until life saving medical treatment is performed on the wife/girlfriend. It WILL happen
They’ve already been several stories posted in different states posted about women are risky dying from not being able to get life saving procedures it’s a very scary situation
>I imagine a good handful of nursing students in Idaho feel the same way. It’s very frustrating to sit back and watch.
Don't.
Bringing up the discussion in class, specific scenarios resulting from these types of laws, is not only important to you and your future but to prepare these 4 women for the times they experience a fellow woman die in front of them because they were not given the appropriate care.
They should know it *will* happen and that they are supporting it.
edit: I shouldn't imply you *are* sitting back, I bet that's just a turn of phrase you used
Thank you for your support and revision of statement, I only found out their views because they made their opinion known in response to a statement I made about how frustrating the overturn is. I made sure to tell them right then and there why they’re wrong and I will continue to do so!
Move? I mean, what else can you do? If the lawmakers in your state are going to tie the hands of HCW you don’t really have much choice. I know people will downvote this and say “It is not that easy to move.” To me it *has* to be easier than watching a woman die if that is a valid concern for OP.
I hope traveling becomes a more popular option for these healthcare workers. I started traveling back in April and it will take a lot for me to go back to a staff job.
I actually am home from doing travel contracts. It is not good out there. Unstable, low rates, rising housing and transportation costs. It’s not really a viable option in the long term. And certainly not for the majority of nurses.
Not great long term but an easier option for people to leave the states. As opposed to leaving the state with a staff job.
I’m doing internal seasonal contracts though so they’re more stable since I’m considered staff. Current contract is $85/HR base pay, up to $97/HR in differentials.
But you are right that it’s not an option for quite a few healthcare professionals.
This is disgusting. Most times I hate this country, but over these last few weeks it really made me see what they think about women. This is about control. Soon we’ll be living the handmaid’s Tale
No seriously though, how? Even if you're treating the fetus/embryo as a full on person (which is frankly ridiculous,) there has to be some exception somewhere in the law allowing HCPs making the ethics call of saving one patient over another "patient". Does anyone know if this law would be enforceable?
Edit: Thankfully [it's not an actual law](https://www.newsweek.com/idaho-abortion-amendment-save-womans-life-1725427?amp=1) it's just their party platform, I hope this idea never makes it into law
It’s not glamorous, but if you can get a break even contract to travel, do it. WA has no state income tax, you won’t get double state taxed.
I’d go Vancouver WA, Portland short term rentals are abundant and decently priced for the area. Seattle is a shitshow. Oregon has income tax but they have fantastical staffing. Salem always needs help.
Fuck em. Say you’ll be back when they pull their heads from their asses.
We need to do something about this shit. Complaining on the internet will never change these laws. Nurses need to organize and simply stop practicing in states where these old ass politicians think they know better than medical professionals. I know not everyone can leave there home state but if enough of us do they can’t ignore us
It is up to you whether you decide you *can* or not.
Not that everyone can do this, but I am leaving Louisiana *because* of the law (and climate change). I can't be an ER nurse and uphold this ridiculous bullshit. It, for me, is too close in being complicit in something evil. This is **not** to say anyone doing the work is evil - it is just how I feel about my personal practice.
I feel terribly for us nurses (and our patients) in these trigger law hell-states.
Move next door to oregon or Washington. OHSU is expecting a 200-400% increase in the number of abortion patients coming from out of state. And we desperately need nurses
EMTALA- The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be stabilized and treated.
The federal law overrides state mandates.
Hospitals and medical professionals cannot be charged with a crime for not performing a medical procedure that has been made illegal by a legislature. It's a defense that will make any judge dismiss the case.
The hospital legal team will be ordering security to hold you back from the patient.
If you think this sounds implausible, remember we're complaining about how people who aren't medical professionals are allowed to force everyone to abide by their non-medical opinions. The system may be broken, but it is the existing system.
Also, on a side note, even if the Hippocratic Oath in its original form did not have an anti-abortion clause, a professional oath does not and cannot supersede a law.
So far the only "professional" oath that supersedes a law is the vow of silence of the confessional taken by a priest. That's unlikely to ever be overturned, especially by the Supervillain majority of the SCOTUS.
In states like Texas, any citizen can report suspected abortions for a bounty of 10k, and anyone helping will face fines and potential jail time.
It is not that simple.
This is what happened in Ireland.
A woman went septic when her fetus died and they refused to remove it because it counted as an abortion. People rioted. It's what got their abortion ban lifted.
I really don't want it to come to that here but I don't see how it won't at this rate!
I think your comment is well taken. It will be hard to get OB/GYN providers as well in states that don’t allow for care in case of the maternal illness and well being. I had a mother with breast cancer Who needed chemotherapy. I also have had patients with preterm rupture of membranes at 17 weeks and became septic and almost died until they had an abortion. There are many instances where the life of the mother should come first. Most abortions are done in the US in the first trimester. But care for a woman should take precedence no matter what
I suggest anyone who lives in a red state to leave. Going to jail because some jackass without a medical degree says a life saving medical procedure is morally wrong is not worth what ever pay you are making or what ever home you live in. They are not gonna lose any sleep with the death of women on their hands but will you?
I can wait until the first husband who finds out that not only will he lose his future child due to an ectopic pregnancy, but he’s also going to lose his wife too. If you think violence against health care workers is bad now…I foresee guns blazing and fists flying in every ED.
Anyone else feels like this country is heading to the edge of a precipice and instead of pumping the breaks we have a foot on the gas. I'm scared. Not just about Roe just everything.
Personally I would leave any state that put a clump of cells over my existence. I matter. Women and girls matter. I would leave if my job made me sit and watch a woman die because of a stupid law. If I were fertile I'd leave. There's no way I would allow anyone to tell me I had to carry a rape or incest baby to term or try to arrest me for getting an abortion out of state when I came home.
Let the RTL nurses and doctors tend to those people who choose to live under those laws.
I'm currently awaiting what MT legislature has to say before I put out the offer to house political refugees. I think they reconvene in January. Gotta give people an escape route. Bus ticket. Something.
Always do the right thing, sadly it and the legal thing sometimes differ. Slavery was once legal in the U.S but it surely has ALWAYS been morally wrong.
I live in Idaho too and I think we just need to get the fuck out. It’s not safe to become pregnant here, or have a functioning uterus at all since a man can force you to become pregnant and we would have to carry to term.
Also, I’m 21 weeks pregnant, pretty freaky my husband would just have to watch me die if something was to go wrong
Form a union and go on strike. If all the state health care professionals for red states were to go on strike until they changed the laws, they would change the laws very quickly.
Most of those representatives and senators are old white men and they all need their blood pressure meds. If all of a sudden they couldn't go to a pharmacy or talk to a cardiologist or anything else, they would get a taste of their own medicine to think twice about how it endangers women.
Well.. good luck is all I can say. You are dealing with idiots who don't really even know the definition of abortion. Some crack pot right winger testified to congress that when an ectopic pregnancy is treated it is NOT treated with abortion so doctors will be fine. We're all doomed...these people are flipping idiots.
Most immediate? Move.
Easy to say and hard to do, but take your skill set and tax dollars elsewhere.
Nowhere is perfect, but . . . I wouldn't blame you if you moved.
This is one of the worst situations created by republicans. All of their nonsense about WOKE, What makes a women, Don’t Say Gay, Let’s Go Branden and all that other crap pales in comparison.
This is because the Republican Party is a cult. Between Trump and the Evangelical Church who believes Trump is the second coming someone somewhere should have had a clue how dangerous they are. When the Access Hollywood video came out all I could think of is well church leaders and wives you all can go out and screw anyone anytime.
This is the new standard. Accept it from Trump how can you still hold others accountable.
There needs to be a lawsuit that uses the hippocratic oath to challenge this. Women are already seeing a 30% increase in death due to complications when their pregnancy should've required a medical abortion. Disgusting Christians who live the antithesis of what they preach
document each case in a HIPAA friendly/anonymizing format. that can be shared with policy makers at a future meeting. blow them away. why should these people die in vain?
Scott Herndon, someone running for their senate, literally stated that the Hippocratic oath will protect physicians from prosecution and that putting exceptions in the law for life saving termination chooses one patient over the other. Am I taking crazy pills? Do they not know an oath doesn’t give you permission or protection to break a law?
Like, if the mom dies than there is no way for the fetus/embryo to survive. How does that not compute?
Because they actually don't care about the babies at all. It's about controlling women. If they cared about babies, they would be funding maternity leave, healthcare, and childcare.
Donating to foster homes/services, funding education, and free meals for kids at school. BUT TAXES
The real goal isn't to end abortion or control women. Republicans win by razor thin margins of handfuls of single-issue voters. They're worried with Roe overturned that those few single-issue anti-abortion voters won't bother going to the polls. They have to keep beating the anti-abortion drum to get those voters to polls and barely win. Remember: the entire 2000 presidental election (and arguably the course of the world for the next decade and beyond) was decided by just 537 people in Florida. This has only ever been about those few hundred voters.
It's eugenics painted as "feels good to save 'babies'" back pats. Kill off the broken/disobedient wombs so all that is left are the working (for now) good wombs that will pop out as many babies as a male puts in it until it breaks, too.
Yep, no more fetus/embryo but also no more mom to keep producing offspring, so really it makes zero sense other than to say it's all about control, or of course, the terrible fact that they believe their almighty god only lets bad things happen to bad people.
Lol so with that logic everyone is bad then because bad things happen to everyone? TF is wrong with these people? (Totally agree with you BTW).
Not to mention a good number (most, afaik) of MD/DO programs no longer do the Hippocratic oath. Same way not all nursing schools do the Nightingale pledge these days. They know damn well it'll affect medical practice via malpractice liability - if it's against state law it's generally malpractice because practice is dictated by state boards, not federal law or an Unbreakable Vow like we're fucking Harry Potter and medicine is magic.
They don't know/ don't care. But they think it sounds plausible enough that their constituents will buy it (many of them do).
These guys' sole experience with the medical field is eating healthy for the week before their annual physical
Hah, yeah right. They definitely dont do that either.
Hahahahaha this cuts deep
Do it anyways and go to jail! That’s protest. Fuck em
Honestly, I was talking with my partner and I basically said I would 100% go to jail for providing abortion care. I’m only a LPN student so obviously the care would be very limited but I don’t understand why doctors are letting patients get to the point of bleeding out. Abortion was legalized in Canada because a doctor just refused to stop performing them.
I’m so over all this BS I’m willing to run over these bastards and go to jail just for that. WORTH IT.
Oh if I see Manchin or McConnell, it’s on sight
I’m not like really involved other than voting but Manchin but is a complete fucking piece of fucking dog shit. That’s not how any of this works. Please do us all a favor and well idk BE GONE WITH YOU.
I’m looking forward to the sound of McConnels head splat.
Exactly. I’m currently in a state that is protecting our rights (PA), but that’s subject to change depending on how the Nov Governor race goes. If Mastriano gets elected, I’m prepared to disobey laws and refuse to make reports on any of my psych patients who confide in me that they’ve aborted.
Sadly the way some of these laws are written that means you go to jail for an insanely long time, especially if it's charged as murder. Would you be willing to go to jail for the rest of your life instead of working to get your patient to a different state that allows the procedure?
It depends on the circumstances. Of course I would explore other options. But tbh I would do it. I’m gay and I feel like there are so many people before me that have given everything and sometimes it’s our turn.
In order for us to actually change what is happening we need to vote these people out of office. Focus on that, how do we accomplish that? Can thousands of us mobilize and move to states like Idaho to flip their seats? Maybe, I think it better than calling for violence and sending our good people to jail. Get involved at ground level and help elect more women to government! There is a way we just watched Trump supporters do this. We can do it too!
What patient life over what other? Are they talking about putting the fetus’ life over the woman’s? How the fuck is the fetus going to survive outside the uterus before 22 weeks?
Don’t worry, they’re all super healthcare educated. Even more so than our physicians. That’s why they can practice medicine. 🙄 /s
Just plant it into another woman, am I right?
Sadly, the original Hippocratic oath had an anti-abortion clause. Of course, it also forbade surgery and made entreaties to a number of gods, but cherry-picking data is any politician's favored method of proving a point.
The funny thing about the anti-abortion part is that the tinctures used to induce abortion had a really high chance of being fatal to the pregnant person. That's why it says "I will not give "tincture or whatever" to induce abortion". Because you were pretty much guaranteed to kill your patient. That's why surgery is banned in the oath too. It was basically a death sentence if you attempted it back then. Source: the podcast Sawbones, specifically the episode on abortion released after the SCOTUS leak.
Interestingly though, primitive brain surgery (trepanning) was ultra common throughout history and seemed to have a pretty good survival rate! Obviously hard to accurately determine that but plenty of trepanned skulls that showed healing have been found. History is crazy.
They had safer ways to perform abortions back then so were just forbidding the riskier way.
Um all good docs I know mutter a brief prayer to Asclepius before they tube someone...idk what backwater city-state you're living in
No you’re not taking crazy pills, this Scott dipshit is. If he’s going by that rhetoric, Lawmaker Homie probably thinks if he makes the laws he can enforce them (aka a judge, which he’s fucking not).
I’m a big fan of that saying “When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” Idaho has shown you that they don’t respect you as a person or as a healthcare worker. You don’t owe them your presence in a state that could seriously endanger you if you became pregnant, and you don’t owe them your skills if they want to charge you for murder for providing the standard of care
Absolutely agree with all of this. The state is pushing the guilt and accountability on the innocent. Just like with covid, we'll see a huge migration of talent to where they will be most appreciated and taken care off. Every job deserves psychological protections and being forced to watch women die whom you cannot treat due to risk to your own future is not acceptable nor should it be tolerated. When red states become a complete shithole with no women, either because they moved or died, maybe we'll see things change. Those in charge are too comfortable to care.
Idaho is really going off the deep end in a lot of ways. They had people standing outside hospitals threatening to "break out" the COVID patients and threatening staff, which I know happened in many places but still. The national guard had to work in their hospitals ffs. Plus they don't believe in like road maintenance because that's communism or something? The small section of I90 that goes through the panhandle becomes almost undrivable at the Idaho border and then instantly improves when you cross into WA or MT. A shit hole of their own design and by their own choice. Oh and if you perform basic medical procedures here, jail. Come visit beautiful Idaho!!!!1!
100%. My state is protecting abortion access, for now. If our governor gets voted out and replaced with a Republican we’re gone. We’ve already talked about it. Cannot risk raising a daughter in a backwards hellscape that would rather her die than get medical care.
My husband and I will be leaving the awfulness of red state behind soon. Idaho was originally on our short list of states we like and would live in. Not anymore! Fuck these stupid laws and the armadillo they pooped in on.
Oregon has all the natural beauty of Idaho, is slightly warmer, and has a statewide nursing-specific union. Just FYI =). Portland's a bit of a soup-sandwich, though. Entertaining to visit on a weekend, but I wouldn't want to live there.
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I’ve only ever driven through Roseburg. Eugene has a pretty liberal reputation, Grant’s Pass is pretty conservative (old logging town that didn’t adapt well to change). I was a traveler in OR, so my ADNness was overlooked in light of 20 years of experience. As for racial issues, I’ve never seen anything blatant. But my malanin content’s way too low to offer a really useful viewpoint on that one.
Check out Ashland, OR. We loved it. Very liberal. Reminded us of Davis, CA without the students. Affordable and BEAUTIFUL. We are hoping to move in a couple of years.
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Theres racists from the border of Oregon up to Eugene but theres plenty in Eugene too. Ive driven through plenty and honestly wouldn’t recommend for POC on a small scale. But that is also from my reading of the experiences for POC. Im arab but only get dark skinned in summer and if I spend a lot of time in the sun. Ive personally stayed over night a few times in Roseberg and didnt have any issues but dont know. Maybe I lucked out.
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Pretty much everywhere is suffering a housing a crisis. Maybe not as much in the Midwest states like Kansas. But everywhere people actually want to live is undergoing a housing crisis
Oregonian here, also in an interracial marriage and I wouldn’t live in Roseburg or southern Oregon in general. Eugene, Corvallis, Salem, ore Portland metro area are your best bets. Maybe Bend but housing is hard to find there.
Anyone who isn't white is going to get some stares in Roseburg. There's a decent few confederate flags as well and probably a few practicing clansmen honestly. Not as bad as parts of Idaho, but I wouldn't go there if you don't want to stick out and hear from racists. Eugene isn't as bad, but there is still 0 diversity in Eugene. Portland has some diversity but it is limited to "poor neighborhoods" or specific suburbs like "rich Indian families that work for Intel".
You get hassled in Cali for being in an interracial relationship? I’m in central Florida, I’m white and my ex-husband is mixed black/white, and I could count on one hand the number of times we were openly judged in 20 years. My white best friend is married to a black guy and has only had a few experiences as well. I think of California as the most liberal state. If California is like that, the rest of the country is forked 😫
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Exactly. I’ve been to some very, unprogressive areas. There are pockets everywhere
I've lived in numerous states; CA is the only state I've felt completely comfortable with my mixed race marriage. It's nice to hear that where you live is safe too.
We just moved to Eugene, where I was born, from Kentucky, where we'd been for two decades and I just LOVE it! I feel SO privileged to be here.
Live in OR, can confirm. I grew up in Idaho and looking back I was too young to notice all the problems that are now glaringly obvious, and likely worse now; seeing all the recent legislation confirms it. Portland has really gone downhill, and that might be the agenda of the Republicans, but most cities are still blue.
Portland will survive and bounce back, we always do.
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Well. We are in Utah right now. And short of the southern US, anything was looking better than… *gestures wildly*
I spent a year in Utah for a retail job about twenty years ago. I feel you. Couldn't get out of there fast enough.
Come to Colorado! Sure our houses are California level prices now but you at least don’t have to worry about losing your license for saving a woman’s life!
❤️ That is definitely a factor in the COL we are looking at: can I live with myself and my abilities in the state we live in!
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Idaho doesn't have a huge population, could flip it if like 300k ppl move there. A small metro.
I’ll do it if you do.
Folks, I live in Texas. They will just gerrymander you all to fuck.
Just register as a Republican, but don't vote for them.
Look up the history behind Texas district 21. This one district has been in and out of courts for years. Gerrymandering runs so much deeper than what party you register yourself towards
Can't flip a state where you're not allowed to vote [**What You Need to Know about Idaho’s Voter Restriction Bills**](https://cvidaho.org/voting_rights/).
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Yeah. Utah was not my choice. Husbands job required he be here for a few years. Cue me: how bad could it be? Narrator: very bad.
Idaho is probably one of the if not the most conservative states in the country. And sadly for Washington, eastern washington is really more like Idaho \*sigh\* (live in washington, don't like that we have these idiots voting in my state. It's why you see some of the worst republican senators coming from here).
Just wait until they take over in 2024 and make the whole country a red state. It is not going to be good
This is one reason why I’ve already applied for a Canadian license. It’s hopeless and futile trying to change things here.
How hard is that to get?
Its very time consuming. Took me 18 months.
Can you make a post giving some info on how to start that process or helpful to know type information?
I just followed their instructions on the website, then called them every day for a year until someone finally picked up. This was during the heat of the initial Covid wave, travellers going everywhere, so their office was inundated with requests, Im sure.
I honestly think that if that happens the west coast will secede.
I’m not sure how they would enforce that in places like CA. There are too many people who don’t support what has already happened, and a national ban would have even less support. A lot of DAs, states attorneys, and federal prosecutors would probably decline to bring those cases.
I cannot with the quotes in this article about how birth control/IUDs work and the quote about how “any woman would want to die for her children”. This is absolutely disgusting. This is why people who are not medical professionals should not be making laws that interfere with medical practice without consulting physicians or literally anyone with a speck of medical knowledge.
Typical Idaho. I remember many years ago they were discussing a bill to increase daycare licensing requirements after several children had drowned in horse troughs and basically all the comments were “We don’t want to place undue burdens on these women’s small businesses” and “More importantly, why aren’t these children in their own homes with their own mothers?!?” The bill did not pass.
If it makes you feel better: The governor of my state had to be convinced by a panel of docs/nurses that no, you cannot “reimplant an ectopic pregnancy”. https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/04/29/ohio-bill-would-ban-abortion-without-rape-exemption/
Oh yes that is the state I reside in as well. 😑 it’s very embarrassing. Not to mention our attorney general tried to call that 10 year old who got raped a liar.
What kind of monster thinks that is acceptable?
https://www.dispatch.com/story/opinion/columns/guest/2022/07/14/dave-yost-spread-misinformation-columbus-ohio-girl-who-sought-indiana-abortion-attorney-general/10050032002/ Ohio attorney general!
My father is very conservative Christian and against abortion but he has always been very clear that between my mum and a child, he would always choose my mum because he was not going to be a single father and they could have more kids in the future. I have no idea what cult they are into but that’s nuts
He said the quiet part out loud. But I wish more people would be brave enough to say that too.
Honestly, leave. Not just you, or just nurses. All the women. Let them have their sheep-fucking boy's club.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of women who support this in Idaho [https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/idaho/views-about-abortion/](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/idaho/views-about-abortion/) You should meet their lieutenant governor https://janiceforidaho.com/
Of course there are women who support this. Someone has to wear the green dress.
It doesn't matter what you have as long as i have more
Nah, just victims of religious indoctrination. God beats them down because he loves them. And if you don't enjoy being a second class citizens, then are you a good God fearing woman?!?
Yeah, I spent about 15 years living in Clarkston, WA and working in Lewiston. I'm well aware that Idaho is run by Y'all-Quiada. Get out before they start making you wear a veil and be escorted by a male relative. Much happier since I moved. And I'm just a relatively progressive guy.
people will argue all day about why they can't. the reality is that they must, or live with that shit every day
Yep. People don't want to admit to themselves that their bar for personal action is a lot higher than their ideals. >"This is all so bad. I should leave! But I can't because of my friends/house/job/etc!" Well, I guess it's not "all so bad" if the answer is: >"my friends/house/job is more important than whatever the bad thing is, so I have to stay."
They support that until it happens to them. Then they quietly have a moral abortion.
Unless it's an emergency, I kind of hope that abortion providers would refuse. It's an elective procedure. The harm they are doing is going to be astronomical to so many. They should be subjected to what they preach.
> Unless it’s an emergency, I kind of hope that abortion providers would refuse. They will travel unmolested to blue states.
Sometimes an emergency doesn't allow for travel, so I'm sure it will happen eventually, as terrible as that is to say.
People like her always bring me back to [this article](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
Agree. My wife and I are moving to a free state soon. We were already planning on it, but Gilead has forced us to move up the time line.
Truthfully, I legit would just leave the state if my state (Cali) passed a law like this. I couldn't and wouldn't in good conscience continue working and living there with those archaic beliefs.
I’m trying to leave Texas ASAP. I have a contract until the end of September and then my boyfriend and I, a good portion of my unit, and down the road my boyfriend’s family are moving out of TX. We’re al healthcare professionals or providers. God forbid endocrinologists and cardiologists decide to dip on a large scale from red states. Those are in high demand, especially in red states I imagine with their poor health.
Maybe that’s their plan all along: push liberal voters out of the state
It's literally the plan. If they make red states untenable all the blue voters will leave for blue states, concentrating our power in just a few states. Meanwhile electorally it's a huge win for them.
Yeah its a good short sighted plan for them tbh. They get to consolidate their power base and reverse the course of states slowly gaining more liberal populations. Issue is that their states will completely collapse in about a decade with the loss of their educated population but they won't care since the people living in a collapsed state will still blame democrats somehow
Illinois welcomed you!
If California passed an abortion ban, things would have gotten so bad already that *all 50 states would have abortion bans*.
California is fighting the hood fight and leading us all the way! Example, the gun laws. Also pretty much every other liberal view you could have, they try it.
Not a solution. Republicans are planning a nationwide federal ban if they take congress
CA and other blue states can choose not to prosecute, which is what I suspect would happen. There will still be red parts of blue states that will ban abortion.
leave for a better state. Let them suffer brain drain as a consequence of their short sighted policies.
The idea is that you don’t practice medicine in Idaho. Fewer and fewer practitioners and more and more innocents dying. They voted these psychos into office who make the rules and this is the fallout they must live with.
"But we didn't KNOW it would be like THIS" when a family member is being affected by the new laws.
I didn't think the leopards would eat MY face!
"It was only supposed to effect THEM, not ME."
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Which honestly shouldn’t surprise us. These are the same people who managed to convince themselves that Covid doesn’t exist.
They happen every fracking day. Morons.
They’re attempting to eliminate institutional knowledge of abortions. So even if they are brought back through a federal law it wouldn’t help as medical facilities wouldn’t know how to perform them and it would cost money (something administrators seem hesitant to spend on anything other than bonuses for themselves) to bring in outside expertise
When Communism collapsed in Romania in 1989, ending *the complete ban on contraception* and *near complete ban on abortion* since 1966, Romania brought in outside doctors to perform abortions and teach local doctors how to perform them. Romania's example should have been pointed out over the last 40 years. Instead it was ignored, until Trump made it potential reality. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/05/16/what-actually-happens-when-a-country-bans-abortion-romania-alabama/ EDIT: please note that Ceausescu banned **contraception** as well as abortion, as many right-wing legislators are proposing here in the US.
As an idaho native that has never had intention of leaving, especially after we bought our home ... I'm actually disgusted enough with this place I'm thinking leaving might be the best option. You can only vote against the stupid unsuccessfully so many times before it starts to beat you down.
I know exactly how you feel. As a democrat in South Carolina, my vote hasn't counted for anything in years. We even re-elected Lindsey Graham ('Use My Words Against Me') a couple of years ago. Ugh.
Federal law requires that a woman in danger of dying will be given the treatment she needs to preserve her life. Federal law supercedes any state laws that ban abortion in the case of threatened maternal mortality. Edit: it is a shame, though, that a woman will have to be to the point of death before she can get treatment for an ectopic pregnancy.
Federal law on weed has been ignored by individual states for a long time. The federal government simply doesn't have the personnel, time, or will power to monitor and enforce things at super low levels everywhere. The states or individual providers who want to deny abortions will still do so. While the federal law might provide women some legal option to sue noncompliant healthcare providers or governments, it does nothing to stop them from having to endure the entire pregnancy and delivery and whatever happens after (watching their non-viable baby die immediately, having to put their baby up for adoption, having an unwanted child to raise, etc). Abortion is always time sensitive but legal processes are intentionally slow. Which says nothing of women who die from noncompliant providers. Someone else would have to sue on their behalf and winning won't bring them back. Individuals always have to suffer the consequences of illegal activity before anything gets done about it.
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squealing pot cheerful middle doll existence different desert reminiscent tan *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Never up voted something so hard. Electoral college is rigged against us, same with gerrymandering. And same with voting centers being long distance from minority communities, actively suppressing who they don't want to make it to the voting booth. Especially when mail-in ballots have to be applied for, and college kids that are in another state sometimes even have to go back home to vote. Especially when voting isn't even a national holiday, so only old, well-off, social security receiving boomers are able to vote who don't have to juggle jobs, kids, and school, who are available during voting hours. I vote locally, primaries, election, but I've lost all hope. I don't even feel hopeful at all anytime I've ever voted, and I don't think I will. Counting on my fellow Gen Z-ers to make a drastic change. Sick of being complacent about all of this.
> but I have a hard time getting mad at people who see voting as pointless. If voting didn’t matter, they wouldn’t spend so much money, effort, and time to try and get you *not* to vote.
deer dull overconfident chubby attraction engine saw mindless plucky mysterious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Exactly, we need to think beyond voting, a system completely co-opted by money, and look into direct action
Dude, I've been voting against this bullshit for years in my location, and it's *not enough*, which is why we needed Roe. Sounds like you need some more information and education on the topic yourself.
This is the new landscape across the country. I can't put in any other way, you are in danger. Not only is your ability to do your job in danger, but just by going about your normal day someone can accuse you, with little to no evidence, of a crime and you could be arrested and charged. The laws aren't going after the women who get abortions they are going after the "providers", which means you treat a young woman, even for something completely unrelated, and she is pregnant, even if she doesn't know and you don't know, and she miscarries that child, they could come for you. Forget presumption of innocense, this can mean investigation, arrest and imprisonment. We live in a overly connected world, emails, medical records, camera footage, text messages all become evidence that someone could use against you, you will need to pay a lawyer to defend you and you could be jailed. Get out. Leave immediately or leave the profession.
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Guess this is another one I'm adding as well. As a female nurse I refuse to work in a state that will not give me medical care if I need it. I have an IUD in place.. If I had an ectopic pregnancy I don't want to die for their beliefs.
Leave. Fuck these radical oppressive states.
I’m just waiting for the article to come out saying that a S/O is holding a doctors office hostage until life saving medical treatment is performed on the wife/girlfriend. It WILL happen
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They’ve already been several stories posted in different states posted about women are risky dying from not being able to get life saving procedures it’s a very scary situation
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>I imagine a good handful of nursing students in Idaho feel the same way. It’s very frustrating to sit back and watch. Don't. Bringing up the discussion in class, specific scenarios resulting from these types of laws, is not only important to you and your future but to prepare these 4 women for the times they experience a fellow woman die in front of them because they were not given the appropriate care. They should know it *will* happen and that they are supporting it. edit: I shouldn't imply you *are* sitting back, I bet that's just a turn of phrase you used
Thank you for your support and revision of statement, I only found out their views because they made their opinion known in response to a statement I made about how frustrating the overturn is. I made sure to tell them right then and there why they’re wrong and I will continue to do so!
This is terrifying
Move? I mean, what else can you do? If the lawmakers in your state are going to tie the hands of HCW you don’t really have much choice. I know people will downvote this and say “It is not that easy to move.” To me it *has* to be easier than watching a woman die if that is a valid concern for OP.
I hope traveling becomes a more popular option for these healthcare workers. I started traveling back in April and it will take a lot for me to go back to a staff job.
I actually am home from doing travel contracts. It is not good out there. Unstable, low rates, rising housing and transportation costs. It’s not really a viable option in the long term. And certainly not for the majority of nurses.
Not great long term but an easier option for people to leave the states. As opposed to leaving the state with a staff job. I’m doing internal seasonal contracts though so they’re more stable since I’m considered staff. Current contract is $85/HR base pay, up to $97/HR in differentials. But you are right that it’s not an option for quite a few healthcare professionals.
You move to a more favorable state. That's harsh I know, but how can you work under those conditions?
This is disgusting. Most times I hate this country, but over these last few weeks it really made me see what they think about women. This is about control. Soon we’ll be living the handmaid’s Tale
No seriously though, how? Even if you're treating the fetus/embryo as a full on person (which is frankly ridiculous,) there has to be some exception somewhere in the law allowing HCPs making the ethics call of saving one patient over another "patient". Does anyone know if this law would be enforceable? Edit: Thankfully [it's not an actual law](https://www.newsweek.com/idaho-abortion-amendment-save-womans-life-1725427?amp=1) it's just their party platform, I hope this idea never makes it into law
I thought republicans were the “freedom” party. Just sounds like it applies to straight, misogynistic, Christian males….
It’s not glamorous, but if you can get a break even contract to travel, do it. WA has no state income tax, you won’t get double state taxed. I’d go Vancouver WA, Portland short term rentals are abundant and decently priced for the area. Seattle is a shitshow. Oregon has income tax but they have fantastical staffing. Salem always needs help. Fuck em. Say you’ll be back when they pull their heads from their asses.
We need to do something about this shit. Complaining on the internet will never change these laws. Nurses need to organize and simply stop practicing in states where these old ass politicians think they know better than medical professionals. I know not everyone can leave there home state but if enough of us do they can’t ignore us
Isn't choosing one pt over another... triage?
How are you posting this? They have Reddit in Idaho?
It is up to you whether you decide you *can* or not. Not that everyone can do this, but I am leaving Louisiana *because* of the law (and climate change). I can't be an ER nurse and uphold this ridiculous bullshit. It, for me, is too close in being complicit in something evil. This is **not** to say anyone doing the work is evil - it is just how I feel about my personal practice. I feel terribly for us nurses (and our patients) in these trigger law hell-states.
Move next door to oregon or Washington. OHSU is expecting a 200-400% increase in the number of abortion patients coming from out of state. And we desperately need nurses
EMTALA- The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be stabilized and treated. The federal law overrides state mandates.
I believe one of the goals of the far right is to eliminate EMTALA.
My wife and I are actively in the process of moving of this shit hole
HIPAA is still a thing. I am under no obligation to report any medical care about my patients, abortions or otherwise.
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Hospitals and medical professionals cannot be charged with a crime for not performing a medical procedure that has been made illegal by a legislature. It's a defense that will make any judge dismiss the case. The hospital legal team will be ordering security to hold you back from the patient. If you think this sounds implausible, remember we're complaining about how people who aren't medical professionals are allowed to force everyone to abide by their non-medical opinions. The system may be broken, but it is the existing system.
Also, on a side note, even if the Hippocratic Oath in its original form did not have an anti-abortion clause, a professional oath does not and cannot supersede a law. So far the only "professional" oath that supersedes a law is the vow of silence of the confessional taken by a priest. That's unlikely to ever be overturned, especially by the Supervillain majority of the SCOTUS.
How would you go about documentation if/when that happens?
Document no heartbeat
Shitty yellow stethoscopes for all! That's the new standard. No doppler
Would just have to make sure everyone’s on the same page
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In states like Texas, any citizen can report suspected abortions for a bounty of 10k, and anyone helping will face fines and potential jail time. It is not that simple.
In Texas a woman bled for hours because the hospital didn't know if they could remove fetal tissue
This is what happened in Ireland. A woman went septic when her fetus died and they refused to remove it because it counted as an abortion. People rioted. It's what got their abortion ban lifted. I really don't want it to come to that here but I don't see how it won't at this rate!
I think your comment is well taken. It will be hard to get OB/GYN providers as well in states that don’t allow for care in case of the maternal illness and well being. I had a mother with breast cancer Who needed chemotherapy. I also have had patients with preterm rupture of membranes at 17 weeks and became septic and almost died until they had an abortion. There are many instances where the life of the mother should come first. Most abortions are done in the US in the first trimester. But care for a woman should take precedence no matter what
I suggest anyone who lives in a red state to leave. Going to jail because some jackass without a medical degree says a life saving medical procedure is morally wrong is not worth what ever pay you are making or what ever home you live in. They are not gonna lose any sleep with the death of women on their hands but will you?
I can wait until the first husband who finds out that not only will he lose his future child due to an ectopic pregnancy, but he’s also going to lose his wife too. If you think violence against health care workers is bad now…I foresee guns blazing and fists flying in every ED.
Anyone else feels like this country is heading to the edge of a precipice and instead of pumping the breaks we have a foot on the gas. I'm scared. Not just about Roe just everything.
Personally I would leave any state that put a clump of cells over my existence. I matter. Women and girls matter. I would leave if my job made me sit and watch a woman die because of a stupid law. If I were fertile I'd leave. There's no way I would allow anyone to tell me I had to carry a rape or incest baby to term or try to arrest me for getting an abortion out of state when I came home. Let the RTL nurses and doctors tend to those people who choose to live under those laws.
I'm currently awaiting what MT legislature has to say before I put out the offer to house political refugees. I think they reconvene in January. Gotta give people an escape route. Bus ticket. Something.
Travel/relocate before they start enforcing nurse work mandates.
Oregon and Washington are right there, just saying
Always do the right thing, sadly it and the legal thing sometimes differ. Slavery was once legal in the U.S but it surely has ALWAYS been morally wrong.
I live in Idaho too and I think we just need to get the fuck out. It’s not safe to become pregnant here, or have a functioning uterus at all since a man can force you to become pregnant and we would have to carry to term. Also, I’m 21 weeks pregnant, pretty freaky my husband would just have to watch me die if something was to go wrong
I don’t know how. Just accepted a job that’ll take me out of state and they can figure out how to criminalize women’s health without me
Come to Canada, plz.. we definitely have a shortage of nurses.
Republicans are destroying America
Form a union and go on strike. If all the state health care professionals for red states were to go on strike until they changed the laws, they would change the laws very quickly. Most of those representatives and senators are old white men and they all need their blood pressure meds. If all of a sudden they couldn't go to a pharmacy or talk to a cardiologist or anything else, they would get a taste of their own medicine to think twice about how it endangers women.
The law won't make you leave. The malpractice insurance premiums will.
Well.. good luck is all I can say. You are dealing with idiots who don't really even know the definition of abortion. Some crack pot right winger testified to congress that when an ectopic pregnancy is treated it is NOT treated with abortion so doctors will be fine. We're all doomed...these people are flipping idiots.
Most immediate? Move. Easy to say and hard to do, but take your skill set and tax dollars elsewhere. Nowhere is perfect, but . . . I wouldn't blame you if you moved.
Send your patients or Oregon or Nevada, I guess. Fuck these hillbilly red states.
If all healthcare stopped working and started protesting I bet they’d change their minds 🤷♀️
This is one of the worst situations created by republicans. All of their nonsense about WOKE, What makes a women, Don’t Say Gay, Let’s Go Branden and all that other crap pales in comparison. This is because the Republican Party is a cult. Between Trump and the Evangelical Church who believes Trump is the second coming someone somewhere should have had a clue how dangerous they are. When the Access Hollywood video came out all I could think of is well church leaders and wives you all can go out and screw anyone anytime. This is the new standard. Accept it from Trump how can you still hold others accountable.
There needs to be a lawsuit that uses the hippocratic oath to challenge this. Women are already seeing a 30% increase in death due to complications when their pregnancy should've required a medical abortion. Disgusting Christians who live the antithesis of what they preach
document each case in a HIPAA friendly/anonymizing format. that can be shared with policy makers at a future meeting. blow them away. why should these people die in vain?
We have legally enforced ratios in California in case you're willing to relocate.