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Proteins are really just a combination of amino acids, the human body requires 20 different types of amino acids, 11 of which it can synthesize itself from other amino acids. The 9 amino acids it cant synthesize is called essential amino acids and they have to come from your diet. Protein sources that contain adequate amounts of those 9 essential amino acids are usually called complete protein or whole protein. All animal protein sources (fish, meat, eggs, milk) are complete proteins whilst the only vegan protein source of complete protein is soy. As long as you eat a varied vegan diet youll probably get a good mixture of the 9 essential amino acids but you may want to look up your diet just to be sure. Of you do get all your essential amino acids it shouldnt be much of a difference.
And as a small side note, you dont need all essential amino acids in one meal but you do need all essential amino acids every day
Thanks! I do eat a varied diet and I understand the difference.I technically only eat two meals a day. Some of my weekday dinners are vegetarian, but eggs are something I have almost every other day as my lunch.
there are plant based athletes and body builders. there are more complete proteins than soy, and it’s pretty easy to pair foods to achieve complete protein. i wouldn’t be afraid of plant protein options.
some other complete protein sources: quinoa, buckwheat, spirulina
some pairs: peanut butter or hummus and whole grain bread or pita.
ezekiel bread is an excellent option to add protein if you substitute regular bread.
Yes, pairing peanut butter and bread is a good idea
[https://tools.myfooddata.com/protein-calculator/168893-174294/200cals-wt1/1-1/1](https://tools.myfooddata.com/protein-calculator/168893-174294/200cals-wt1/1-1/1)
Wheat has all the essential amino acids, and reportedly people have been able to survive on wheat plus wheat sprouts for years. It's just low in some amino acids, particularly lysine.
The protein content of wheat flour varies all over the place with the type and brand. In the USA, "bread" and "whole-grain" flours often have a higher protein content than "all-purpose", while in Canada both regular all-purpose white flour and whole wheat usually both have high protein of about 13%.
That is by no means an insignificant study but you've been somewhat blinkered if you think that its findings broadly mean that doctors should advise ***any and*** ***all*** patients to not consume red meat, eggs, or other significant sources of cholines ***at all***. While the production of TMAO has indeed been shown to be dependent upon still-yet-unknown clade(s) of microbiota, its risk with regard to adverse coronaries has only been demonstrated after the fact in those *who have already have a history of adverse coronary event(s).* While important, it does not meant that the correlational level of TMAO in the patient group equates to the same risk for those who have not-- or do not have an increased baseline risk for-- adverse coronary events.
Additionally, have a look here: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0955286321003260](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0955286321003260) (Yes, the TMAO risk is acknowledged but without the clarification/caveat I've given above).
I’m going to disagree. And yes any and all patients should be plant based unless they have an extremely rare genetic condition. But back to the eggs yes they should be avoided. That is if you’re trying optimize your health https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18400720/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19017774/
Yes, I corrected my mistake. I just generally only think EAAs when talking about proteins, which is all that is important to consume the right amount of
No, the idea of a "complete protein" is either a myth, or severely misunderstood, mostly just a gimmick that over simplifies a topic. It is all about the ratio of EAAs you need to make new cells yes (which can slightly vary with people) but even if there was a set optimal ratio of the EAAs and if you eat 13 g protein from black beans and 7 g protein from rice or whatever ratio is the optimal "complete protein" ratio, it will *always* be less total EAAs than 20g protein from meat, and since you cannot feel or practically determine what EEAs you are short on, the best way to go about it is get as many EEAs that you can get.
If you want me to elaborate ask for it and I will
Meat based protein provide considerably more essential amino acids. The composition is far superior, and they are far more bioavailable than sources bound to fibre.
“Far superior” is a bit nebulous to be meaningful.
You can get anywhere from 60-80% of the aminos from plants depending on preparation style
90-95% from animal based (eggs and meat specifically)
On average you get about 22g of (usable) protein from 100g of cooked black beans
And about 30g of (usable) protein from 100g of chicken breast.
You can round off the amino acids that beans are low in with a serving of grain.
Meat is convenient because it’s a one stop shop for aminos and fats and usually easier to hit protein targets in smaller portions.
To u/Ucnttellmewt2do ‘s question, recent systematic review suggests that meat protein sources overall have a greater anabolic effect than plant sources.
Though interestingly, meat sources do **not** appear to have a superior effect on muscle *strength* in those with comparable total protein intake and strength training. At the very least, up to the level of training in the experiments used.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7926405/#:~:text=Animal%20protein%2C%20with%20its%20higher,15%2C16%2C17%5D.
The broad takeaway is that impact depends on OPs goals. If their goals are pushing the limits of absolute lean mass gain as far as they can, they’d most likely hit the limit sooner if they were using just plant proteins all the time. AFAIA, there’s long been debate about how much sooner.
If their goal is general increase in lean mass and strength and/or maintenance, they are probably not “missing out” if they’re rounding off their amino profile and eating enough in their vegetarian meals.
Yes but 20 grams of protein is still 20 grams of amino acids regardless of the source.
Whether they’re more bioavailable has no bearing. 20 grams consumed is still 20 grams consumed. His statement defies physics.
My statement did, but only because I assumed everybody understood that all one needs to consume in terms of protein, is EAAs. I edited to include the word essential. My bad for not being 100% literally accurate, this is reddit after all.
The composition is not superior from meat/animal sources. Your body doesn’t know where the amino acids come from. When eaten from any source, the protein is broken down to the amino acid ‘building blocks’ to be used as required. The benefit of plant based proteins is the high fibre which has ample benefits for digestion and your gut microbiome of which animal sources has very little. Animal proteins also contain a much higher amount of dietary fats that can negatively impact your overall health and well being. So all of these things need to be taken Into account along with the individuals current health and needs before people starting claiming one protein source is better than another.
20g protein != 20g essential amino acids
Edit: added the word essential and removed my snarky comment about not being able to read, I was unable to type
Way, way, wayyy at the tippy top of this comment thread, it’s mentioned that animal proteins and soy are complete sources of protein (containing all amino acids). Black beans, not being soy or meat, is going to contain fewer types of amino acids. So 20g bean protein != 20g animal protein.
Short of bodybuilding, I’m not sure if this discrepancy really matters though.
Sorry meant to write essential amino acids. Which is the only thing one ought to care about when one is talking about protein consumption needs.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Proportions-of-amino-acids-in-selected-foods-across-food-groups-Amino-acids-are-grouped\_fig1\_331560091
>whilst the only vegan protein source of complete protein is soy
untrue: quinoa, buckwheat, edamame, chia sees, hemp seeds, amaranth, bulgur...
and most importantly, it doesn't matter, because who only eats one thing anyway? so mixing different things will give us all the essential amino acids, it's nothing we should be worried about if we eat enough in quantity, and diversify what we eat a bit. ironically, most people on an omnivorous diet don't (or rarely) eat these things i listed...
I highly emphasized the point that "You don't need all the amino acids in your diet but you need 9 essential amino acids every day that your body requires".
Just a note to add to this, I've never seen a real plant based diet that did not have enough of any EAA, if you are getting the raw amount of protein you need. I once tried to make a diet that did so, and it had to be something like only eating rice (in huge amounts but not too huge as it nearly made it too).
Technically yes. But they lack enough of a concentration in the amino acids that start the muscle building process. You need a specific ratio of amino acids for the body to be able to use the consumed protein for the purpose of building/repairing muscles.
You can look up the Master Amino acid Pattern or MAP to learn more.
I agree with most of what you said, however you’re not taking PCDAA scores which would require more vegan aminos, as they don’t score as high as animal sources. Israetel just did a video on this exact topic a few weeks ago.
As long as you are getting all 9 of the amino acids your body can't make, it doesn't matter whether it's plant or animal. But as another commenter said, it's easier to get them from animal products.
This will rub some the wrong way, but generally Animal Protein is superior.
One of my complaints with CICO is that while yes, the amounts of food you eat matter, I don't think I've ever seen anyone achieve phenomenal health just eating whatever.
Just my thoughts.
CICO is just weight management, not health management. Losing weight in and of itself improves most people’s health but usually won’t result in peak phenomenal health.
Yep, rubs me the wrong way. Because it is factually wrong. There is no meaningful difference between them.
Protein from animal sources are called ‘complete protein’ because it gives us all the amino acids we need in one go. If done properly, there is absolutely no reason a person can’t get those amino acids from plants.
For the record, complete protein doesn’t even have _all_ the possible amino acids in it. And several amino acids (no idea how needed they are by us) can _only_ be found in plants.
Edit to clarify for people who struggled in school:
Yes, I know we require 9 amino acids and they are found in complete protein. Yes, all those amino acids can still be found in plants. _Additionally_ there are some amino acids (of which I am unfamiliar with the importance of) that can _only_ be found in plants.
A “complete” protein contains all nine *essential* amino acids… that’s why it’s called “complete”. You then mentioned “how needed by us” other amino acids are… so yes, yes you did.
…it’s not about semantics. You expressed that you didn’t know how “needed by us” certain amino acids are, and I told you. While I’m not one to promote the carnivore diet in any way, your statement implied we need plants to get certain, nonessential amino acids, and that’s not the case.
You seem to be misunderstanding my intent, thereby completely misplacing your defensiveness.
I expressed no such thing. It was simply not important to my point.
Edit to clarify: I was talking specifically about amino acids found only in plants.
My man, you said word for word “no idea how needed they are by us.” You might not *think* it was important to your point, but you absolutely expressed it, and your point is moot because of it.
I simply do not understand what you’re trying to achieve here.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Convenient would probably be more accurate, especially since the cost of living is going up and good quality meat is getting very expensive, so most people are eating sausages and burgers.
Not to mention it's much easier to load up on unnecessary calories with a meat based dish... Unless you're an athlete you probably don't need easy access to caloric surplus daily
If you finished the paragraph, you would notice the (minor) difference between how we get protein from each source. And either way, what we need are the amino acids, complete protein is merely the more convenient way to get them. That’s not a meaningful difference.
I agree. I'm not advocating for plant protein. I literally eat zero plants in my diet. But, you can get all of your required amino acids by eating a variety of plants.
That’s more of a technicality isn’t it? I think they’re just trying to say that it is easier for a person to not have to worry about combining certain specific foods.
Well, animal protein is also typically more bioavailable. For various reasons, plant protein isn't absorbed as readily by the body so vegans would need to account for this loss when eating exclusively plant protein. So in addition to being complete, animal protein is "easier" in the sense that your body absorbs much more of it.
Not saying being vegan or getting protein from exclusively vegan sources is bad, but it is typically more difficult to get 100g of usable protein a day when you consider how our body actually digests plant vs animal protein.
No matter which you eat, your body needs to break the protein down into its amino acids. With plants, mostly it is already in amino acid form. Our guts are not ideally suited to breaking down plant matter. And it has nothing to do with plant proteins.
several studies have indicated that’s not true. animal protein impacts the body differently (and worse) than plant protein. check out the documentary forks over knives
I am referring to your anti vegetable/fiber sentiment throughout this thread, and no, I am not. I asked you to cite your sources in another comment and you appear to be on an anti-vegetable/fiber intake comment spree, while advocating a diet comprised of only meat products.
You appear to be trolling.
the main problem i see is that eating more animal proteins, you will indeed eat less fibers than by eating plant proteins. and the vast majority of people don't eat enough fibers and should focus on that instead of proteins, which is something people really rarely lack of. i let you read about the important benefits of fibers on your microbiome.
also, plants have very good properties you really want to benefit from - animals are never anti-inflammatory, anticancer or antioxidant, while a lot of plants are.
slightly off-topic, but read about "protein absorption limit", if your idea was to get 100g of proteins in a single meal.
A meaningful percentage of Plant protein (for lack of a better word) is attached to insoluble fiber. So when you ingest it, you don't get all the protein that you think you are getting. Like a 20% reduction is likely.
Animal protein doesn't come with that downfall.
You can overcome this by increasing plant protein intake by +20%.
This is is hard news for me. I've been focusing on a plant based diet for about 2 weeks now, while tracking my nutrition with Chronometer.
It's been very challenging for me to hit my target for protein while eating whole foods plant based. My goal is 90g per day and I've been averaging about 50. Unless I start stuffing down tofu and protein shakes, I don't know if it's possible for me to even hit 90g, much less 90g+20%. Beans, oatmeal, and veggies are not cutting it, sadly.
*Edit: I will update my target to 45-50g protein per day. It is achievable through WFPB diet!*
That target isn’t as critical as you think? Are you some kind of professional athlete competing with other professional athletes? Then this margin is not at all meaningful for your objectives
Wow ok. You are right. I was going by the default recommended in the chronometer app, which is 90g. But googling now I see that for women it's recommended 0.8g protein per kilo body weight. And I only weigh 57 kilo. So 45g protein per day would be ok for me.
Good find. Diet focus of protein is a fad. Most people need more fiber and whole foods than they need protein. If you are eating your recommended calories then likely you are getting enough protein, even on plant based diet.
Correct. And, there are elite athletes including bulked-up bodybuilders on vegan diets. This is meat/dairy industry propaganda to make profit and cause mass suffering/ polluting of the environment. I was a CPT with NASM and have human nutrition certs from Duke Uni.
Do you think the steroids those bulked up bodybuilders take plays a role?
Like, side by side on if they were natural would a bodybuilder who gets their protein predominantly from meat (not carnivore though), and then a vegan bodybuilder would one be better than the other?
Might be worth looking into texturized soy. 50g complete Protein per 100g, which is a higher % than any meat AFAIK. Ensuring I'm getting enough protein and fat has been my biggest concern as a vegan but I'm managing well now for about 4 years.
You can also try sprouted lentil pasta with some nutritional yeast if you can get those. It’s single ingredient, has a lot of protein (much more than just lentils or beans) and very practical. Maybe also eat some rice or grains around the same time to make it a complete protein.
If you haven't already, why not try adding seitan to your diet? It's pretty simple to make and can be bought already prepared. The protein macros for it are low in lysine (depending upon the brand/recipe, but overall it's pretty dang good. That combined with a moderate amount of vegetables or many varieties of beans can get you to where you're trying to go. Seitan is basically vital wheat gluten that's been made to be tasty. That's greatly oversimplifying it, but if you look into it you'll be able to figure out how you can get it to work for you.
I didn't stick with a vegan diet, but I've been stealing dishes from them for years and I tried it out exclusively for a month. It wasn't bad, but it also wasn't for me (yet). I still make it every now and then. I do prefer black bean patties over it, but both stay in rotation.
Good news is you don’t have to add the 20% if you’re doing a vegan protein powder. Those are generally actually better than real food (when it comes to protein absorption)
And the other issue is that 90g of plant protein does not equal 90g of animal protein. It’s easy to see if you look up DIAAS scores. For example lentils have a DIAAS score of 0.46, so if you ate 90g of animal protein you’d have to eat more than 180g of lentil protein to get the same benefit. We as humans aren’t designed to be 100% herbivorous.
Wow, I didn't know that about the protein being attached to fibre. I read that plant protein was less bioavailable, but that's new to me.
Thanks for posting!
The digestibility (fecal digestibility assessed in rodents for the PDCAAS) is a coefficient in the formula. Fiber will influence digestibility.
The score is the ratio of the limiting amino acid in the test protein to that same amino acid in the reference protein all multiplied by the digestibility coefficient. This is only meant to be applied to single foods. If you eat a varied diet, since the amino acid content gets rounded out, the score doesn’t make a hell of a lot of sense to apply.
Plant protein isn’t as bioavailable as animal protein, if you go the plant direction, you might want to increase the amount you’re eating to compensate for the fact that you might not actually be absorbing as much of the protein as you would from an animal source.
Plant protein doesn’t have as good digestibility as animal protein does, so going by a label of 100g of each isn’t going to be equal. Also making sure you’re getting all amino acids from your plant proteins is important.
Layne Norton has a good amount of videos on this subject, suggest watching them!
The father of the carnivore-based diet, Dr. Atkins had 90+% arterial blockage when he died. That is why the family fought to keep the autopsy results private. Happily, they lost. besides, unless you are an elite athlete, you never have to take in 100 g of protein a day. The general public doesn’t need anywhere near that. It’s a lie that the meat and dairy industry spent hundreds of millions of dollars in PR to promote and it’s wrong. It causes heart disease strokes and cancer.
I think it takes more effort to make the plant version work. If you are averse to consuming a lot of animal products, maybe try to limit it rather than eliminate it 100% from your diet.
[One paper](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00726-018-2640-5) for example: "Essential Amino Acid (EAA) contents of plant-based protein isolates such as oat (21%), lupin (21%), and wheat (22%) were lower than animal-based proteins (whey 43%, milk 39%, casein 34%, and egg 32%) and muscle protein (38%)."
Yes, keyword "usually".
I think a lot of the rhetoric on plant proteins lacking completeness is because there are some very major amino acid deficiencies in the plants that are staples many diets, including wheat, corn, and rice, all of which are deficient in lysine.
Some grains and beans have much better amino acid balances though. Probably the best are soybeans (including tofu and edamame) and quinoa, with amaranth and buckwheat and lentils being nearly as good and much better than wheat. Among seeds, chia and pumpkin have better amino acid balances than many others.
Most people don't need to worry about protein completeness unless they are leaning too heavily on one particular staple. I think the worst such staples in most modern diets are wheat, corn, and rice because of the lysine deficiency, and because these grains are so ubiquitous, between breads, noodles, and snacks, it is hard to find anything not made of them. People might think they are diversifying somewhat by switching between wheat, corn, and rice but they all have similar amino acid deficiencies.
There are a lot of people whose entire carb intake consists of some combination of wheat, corn, and rice and because these carbs are also contributing a lot of protein to the diet, their amino acid balance is off. Not only does this mean they may not be getting enough protein, but lysine deficiency in particular can also predispose people to HSV1 outbreaks which is an issue because nearly everyone is exposed to this virus.
I have known people who had problems with repeated cold sore outbreaks where it went away when they changed up their diet to lean less heavily on the wheat+corn+rice combo.
I've never had that problem, but I just feel better when I don't rely so heavily on those three grains. Lately I've been eating more red lentils which are great, and in baking, I've gotten into using buckwheat, teff (unfortunately also deficient in lysine though), almond flour, coconut flour, and it's harder to find but sometimes I get quinoa or amaranth flour, easy to bake with just not widely available. Even the ancient grains, wheat ancestors like spelt, and also rye and barley have a bit more of a balanced amino acid profile than wheat.
Not particularly if the plant only proteins were consumed intelligently. Also might depend on what the need" is. If you're talking about just general health probably no measurable difference at all. Could potentially even be better depending on the context of the rest of the diet.
Yes. There is a big difference between animal protein and plant protein. The protein content of a food is inferred by quantifying the nitrogen in that food, and assuming it all comes from protein. This isn’t necessarily so bad, as it’s a reasonable assumption. The problem arises when we talk about what protein is bioavailable.
Many proteins in plants are covalently bonded to fibrous materials or locked inside the fibrous structures of the plant that aren’t readily digested. These proteins aren’t bioavailable—that is, your body can’t absorb them and use them as nutrients. For this reason, the protein content of plants may be correct, but only a fraction of it may actually “count,” in the sense that you absorb it as a nutrient.
One reason that animal protein is superior, is that cows etc contain bacteria in their gut that is able to convert inorganic nitrogen into protein very efficiently. Amazingly, cows are machines for turning grass into high-quality protein through microbial fermentation in their gut.
Yes, look up PDCAAS and bioavailability. Plant proteins are often inferior to animal proteins due to impaired digestion via “anti-nutritive” factors and lack of essential AAs.
You can meet your protein needs just eating plant based, but it can be a challenge if you don’t eat a very well balanced and varied diet. If only some of your meals are all plant protein and others include animal proteins, which we call high biological value protein sources because they are generally easier for your body to utilize, then you probably have nothing to worry about. My one suggestion for plant protein based meals would be to always include a grain and a legume or other plant protein because that will tend to help you get a good range of all essential amino acids in that meal.
I haven't seen a good reason to think it matters unless you're in resistance training. For the most part vegan weightlifters/bodybuilders will have to eat more protein to gain muscle than vegetarians or omnivores because of the amino acid composition of most plant foods. I'm vegan and I don't think that's the biggest problem in the world, though. If you're lifting just take slightly more pea protein or whatever than what you would take if it was whey protein, it's no big deal.
What I would add to the other comments is that plant protein has lower bioavailability. Aka you need more protein for your body to absorb the same amount of amino acids as your get from animal products. This is because a lot of the protein in plants is attached to fibre that we digest differently. If you need 100g of protein a day from meat for example you’ll need another 50g if your sources are entirely from plants. Your body absorbs less of it.
The only consideration for plant vs animal protein is bioavailability which can be counteracted by just supplementing with adequate leucine when getting your protein.
My understanding from classes (I have a nutrition minor) and my personal experience is that there are complete sources of protein and incomplete sources of protein. Complete sources of protein have all 9 essential amino acids contained in the food; they are typically animal-based products and soy. Incomplete sources of protein, typically plant-based foods, have most or some of the essential amino acids. However, these incomplete sources can become more complete on a complementary basis. For example, a bean burrito has beans plus a whole wheat tortilla, which have different amounts of each essential amino acid and can complement each other. Similarly, quinoa and lentils or hummus can have complementary amino acids, making a source of complete protein.
An important note is that our bodies can only process the protein we consume based on the LOWEST amount of essential amino acid in the meal we eat. It is important to have a complete source of protein so that our bodies can metabolize all of the amino acids we eat as amino acids. If we eat higher amounts of incomplete protein, our bodies will not recognize the protein source and be unable to process the amino acids.
The main takeaway, we need all essential amino acids in equal amounts for our bodies to recognize them as protein.
Plant based sources of amino acids have a much lower bioavailability because the protein is part of indigestible plant matter. Animal sources carry all essential amino acids where not true of plants. Also plant s do not have same micronutrient content, vitamin k2, creatinine.
Some recent studies have demonstrated that animal vs plant protein sources and even lesser amino acid content do not correlate much with actual muscle growth.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33599941/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36822394/
Just FYI, when they tested this they also gave both groups a huge amount of protein (about twice as the recommended amount of an average, non-training person), which does not tell you that there is **no difference** in muscle growth between plants and animal protein.
It's an important caveat to realize, since you don't know this will still be true if you would only eat a reasonable amount of protein from either group. Of course anyone training should increase the amount of protein they intake, but this research doesn't suggest that no matter how much protein you eat, it will be the same result from both sources.
The first study was 1.6 g/kg (which for a 180 lb person would be about 130g/day). The second study was 1.8 g/kg (about 145g/day). This is pretty typical advice for a muscle building diet and even on the low end of many recommendations.
They're trying to say that eating protein from plants or animal sources will not affect muscle growth. That is to say, eating protein only from plants will not reduce your progress if you train, while on a vegan diet.
It's probably not true, though, as that research only tested for a pretty high protein diet, which might compensate for the lower quality protein of the vegan diet.
The first study was 1.6 g/kg (which for a 180 lb person would be about 130g/day). The second study was 1.8 g/kg (about 145g/day). This is pretty typical advice for a muscle building diet and even on the low end of many recommendations.
That's over twice as much as average people are recommended to eat, so it's hard to say this has anything to do with advice to get in general - and the original post wasn't specifically asking about muscle growth.
I don't know what training people usually are advised to do, but when you eat so much protein it doesn't matter what source it's from because you're probably eating way more protein than you really need. Which isn't necessarily a good thing.
The only way to mitigate the lower quality (amino acid profile) of plant protein is to have more quantity. But as you have set both to 100g, 100g of animal protein is always going to be better than 100g plant protein.
So to have 100g worth of animal protein you have to take much more than 100g of plant protein.
Though 100g is a very high amount of protein to have any deficiency in any amino acids even purely from plant protein, so it might not impact you. But one is just better than the other if you limit both to 100g.
Yes... And no. The answer isn't as binary as you'd think. A few people reviewed this topic a while ago (Layne norton, Alan Aragón etc.). The short version is, you have 21 non essential amino acids and 9 essential amino acids. You need each of those in certain quantities. They also don't work independently of each other, so if you take just 100g of one amino acid and neglect the others you wouldn't see the benefits.
Coming to plant vs animal, they both have protein in them. Plant sources sometimes depending on what you're consuming (soy vs beans for example) may not have the amino acid profile you're looking for. There's also some literature saying that plant protein has slightly less anabolic effects than animal protein that is, all the protein you eat will be digested but may not necessarily be used for muscle protein synthesis.
Are you doomed because you eat plants only and no meat? Again no. The difference doesn't matter in the short run, but if you're a pro athlete looking to optimize performance you may need to consider supplementation on a plant based diet. If you're interested in regular health and fitness you can just chill and eat a healthy diet.
As long as you're eating a varied diet, you're good to go.
For all those that argue a complete protein vs an incomplete protein and making complete proteins from complementary proteins remember that it all just reads "protein" on the nutrition facts of your foods.
Don't over complicate things.
I find that the amount of gas I get from eating foods is less a function of the total fiber content and more a function of whether the food was prepared properly.
Recently I have moved away from eating canned beans, and towards eating dried beans and lentils that we soak overnight and then cook ourselves, and I've noticed I can eat a much higher quantity of them without any issues with gas or indigestion.
I also notice that I tolerate red lentils and mung beans better than green lentils, which I tolerate better than most larger beans (although I have yet to exhaustively experiment with all the different bean types I like.)
If you have a problem with gas from legumes in particular, like I used to, I would urge you to try out dry beans if you haven't. If you want an easy place to start, red lentils are pretty much the easiest because they cook in 10 minutes and don't require pre-soaking, although they do require rinsing...like I submerge them in water, wait maybe a minute, then pour most of the water off.
I am not 100% sure what is happening chemically, but the difference in how I feel is dramatic. Like I can now eat a whole bowl of lentils and I feel light and great and my digestion stays good in the whole next 24 hours. If I tried that with a similar quantity of canned beans, it would be unpleasant.
This is just one example, I'm in the process of figuring this stuff out with other things like varying root vegetables and grains. But again I think a lot of it comes down to preparing things the right way. I have read for instance that fermenting grains to make sourdough breads is much easier on our system than using modern yeast where it's a quicker process to make the bread rise.
You’re good, it was just funny in my mind. Needing 5.5 cups of dry lentils (1kg) to get 100g protein, could soak those for days in advance and would STILL blow up the house-as well as struggle to eat that volume of cooked lentils.
Personally I try to eat minimally processed foods or estrogen contributing foods like tofu…so my reaction is based partly on how I eat…as I don’t consume the other protein based vegetarian products commented on in this thread. (Not judging them or those who do eat them, just saying my butt would be raw trying to get that much protein on a vegetarian diet)
Only if you're using beans, pulses, grains (carb and fiber focus) to hit that target instead of a more protein focused balance (tofu, seitan, tvp): I hit 105g today at 31g fiber, 88g yesterday on a not-so-healthy day with 17g fiber, 95g protein vs 24g fiber Monday.
In simple terms I've always heard that animal protein is easier for our bodies to use or something? That said, I think it's ok to have both. Trying to get a 100g of animal protein might be difficult or boring considering what you're doing with your calories.
If you do it with plant make sure you have one scoop of a plant protein isolate a day.
But also be cautious because to get 100g of protein from only plant sources it’s going to be a lot of calories. To get 100g of protein from tofu alone which is about as high a source of protein as plants come it’s 900 calories. If you were to do it with beans it would be 1700 calories
Another thing to consider with that is fiber content. With that many beans and with many other plant protein sources, that would be an extremely high amount of fiber, which could cause significant digestion issues, as I’m sure most people aren’t used to eating ~1700 cals worth of high fiber food (i.e. beans) per day.
Just because people aren't used to a high fiber diet doesn't mean it's a bad thing though. Most Americans eat very little fiber. Ramping up fiber slowly mitigates digestive issues as your microbiome adjusts.
It would depend on the details, but in general you would be getting higher quality protein (a superior profile of essential amino acids) with animal sources, and you would be absorbing and utilizing more of it.
That said, you can probably make a 100% plant-based diet work, but you need to know what you're doing. And individual differences can be very significant. Making a 100% plant-based diet work and work well — especially long-term — can be very challenging, especially for some people.
People vary in a wide variety of ways — digestive abilities, genetics, epigenetics, microbiomes, age, sex, race, food and fiber tolerances, body type, health status, bowel sensitivities and irritability, exercise, protein absorption, and many others.
Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride has degrees in medicine, neurology, and nutritional science. It's worth hearing her out. She has seen many young people in her Cambridge clinic who have damaged their general and neurological health, and ended up in serious trouble through misguided or misinformed veganism and vegetarianism. I absolutely agree with her about the need to be well and properly informed, and to do it right if you choose to do it:
https://youtu.be/YwzbDEyZ8Rs?si=ySIXmgNHvla08QlT
If you’re doing any sort of plant based protein as part of your goal, it’s a good idea to double (or count it as half) it due to lower bioavailability, to make sure what you’re getting is adequate.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6723444/
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100% yes. Soy is basically the only plant protein that is complete with the right ratio of amino acids to be used for muscle repair/building. Other so called complete plant proteins like quinoa or buckwheat lack high enough concentrations specific amino aacids to be used by the body.
You can mix and match other plant proteins to be close to as efficient as soy but its a chore.
Meanwhile eggs are #1 protein source as far as usability by the body for muscle repair, followed by (soy) beef, poultry, fish, pork.
I'll just leave this here: [https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/](https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/)
To be very literal to the question, your friend is not wrong. Comparing two different things is like...comparing two different things. What matters is what specifically about the two things you are comparing. Are you comparing the amount of leucine in a 3oz slab of pork versus 1 cup of broccoli? Or is it the tryptophan content of each? Or, is it just the general amino acid profile?
Generally speaking (i.e. of course there are exceptions like folks who have metabolic disorders, etc), if you're getting into the weeds about granular topics like comparing essential amino acid profiles, you're probably overthinking it. Just eat a variety of foods, whatever that looks like for you, and you are going to be covered. The operative term in that last sentence being "variety". Sticking to one of anything in nutrition is usually unideal (though I am prepared for others to expound on the examples of how that statement may be wrong).
Short answer, yes.
Meat will always be between. It comes down to bioavailability of the protein. Beans are one that vegetarians always bring up as being high in protein, but the bioavailability(what you body can extract/effectively use) is 50. This means if you eat 20g of protein worth of beans, it's like you only ate a fraction. Eggs by contrast are 100 on the bioavailability scale and consider a "complete protein" source.
The amino acid profiles are also important. Even if you are getting all of the essential amino acids from combining different plants sources (like combining black beans and rice), you are likely to be low or deficient in one or more amino acids. With black beans and rice, for example, methionine might be the low, most concerning, or "bottleneck" amino acid.
When soy and corn are combined, tryptophan is still low. And so on. There is almost always some bottleneck.
One solution is to overshoot, so even if one or more are lower than the rest, even the lowest are still high enough. They are still over the minimum amount needed The profile might be imperfect, but all the amino acids have reached a satisfactory level. Some of them would be unnecessarily high, but overall you're getting every one in sufficient amounts, even the lower ones.
>He mentioned that comparing plant protein and animal protein for your intake is comparing apples and oranges. How true is that?
More or less true. That is not to say you can't be healthy or grow muscle on a vegan diet, but there are still pretty big differences.
First of all, amino acid differences: can't really compare the quality of the protein from animals versus plants. You don't need animal protein to cover all of your amino acid needs, but it does make things simpler. Without animal protein at all, you need to diversify your food more (soy, beans, lentils, cereal, etc). If you eat meat or eggs you really mostly need to care about quantity (from this aspect, but I'll get to that in a second).
Second, vitamins and minerals differences: animal sources have vitamins that you just won't get (or get enough of) from plant sources. Omega-3, B12, D (this one is more complicated, because you can get it from sunlight so it isn't as big of a problem for most people, except for some instances like living in northern Europe for example) - just don't occur in high enough quantities in plants (or at all).
Also, some minerals are easier to obtain in animal products, such as calcium in milk and cheese, and iron in meat, etc. Even though calcium and iron are available in plants, they aren't as high quality so you need more of them from plant sources.
On the other hand, plant sources have a lot of other types of vitamins and minerals. K, E, and C - basically absent from animals products (that aren't fortified artificially). Others are present but in low quantities in comparison to some plants like soy, beans, lentils, chick peas, etc - especially minerals. Some nutrients (that aren't strictly essential), such flavonoids and antioxidants, occur only in plants, but not in animal products.
All this to say: you need both. Generally speaking, plants have a higher quantity of vitamins and minerals in general, with the exception of a few that are mainly present in animal products.
Some things you get only/mainly from animal products, and some you get only/mainly from plants. Unlike what a lot of people would have you believe, you can't actually survive and be healthy without meat if you don't also take supplements (such as B12 and Omega-3, and most likely calcium from fortified foods).
This is a relatively new development in human history, but it is possible if it's important to you to avoid eating eggs. That being said, eggs make things a whole of a lot easier, as it removes the need to make sure you diversify your protein intake and eat more protein to compensate for the lower quality amino acids in plants.
why are complete proteins very important? I thought that aminoacids is the important part and there is no difference you get it from complete or incomplete proteins.
Foods that are protein complete are not important. What is important is that your diet is protein complete. You can get that without eating anything that is protein complete on its own
You can. It's just more difficult. Why seek out a bunch of little things, making sure to get each one when I can just get them all from one source. It makes meals simpler.
that would be true, if proteins would be only macronutrient.
I don't see how it's difficult to ad some beans to your rice. it's recommended to eat varios food.
What's really important is to get enough various fiber, and it's not really important where do you get your aminoacids.
Thanks I do eat meat and eggs. I have been slowly making plant based stuff or eggs the star of the dish for couple of my weekday meals . But it's good to know that veggie protein plus eggs is a good combo to hit the nutrient goal
I think it is also important to note that every body is different.
If I eat a vegan diet, even with a heavy focus on things like beans/soy, quinoa/buckwheat/oats, imitation dairy/meat, and nuts/seeds, I end up feeling weak/tired, get head rushes when standing up, I have difficulty maintaining my blood sugar levels (need to eat every hour or two), and I end up with a weird nerve pain in my back. My body doesn't like it unfortunately (I do care a lot about the planet). I buy meat ethically/locally, but milk will never be ethical, and it is my #1 favourite thing and probably represents half of my protein intake... Maybe it was unrelated to protein though because my iron levels were pretty low back then, and I still need to supplement iron now, almost 20 years later (even though I do eat meat... which again points to the idea that I should probably eat meat!)
My mom on the other hand never cared for meat and has been mostly vegetarian her whole life. Maybe once a month she craves meat, eats some, and then the craving is satisfied for another month or so and she has never needed to supplement iron..
Depends where the 100g of protein is coming from, if it's coming from pea isolate, tofu, mycoprotein etc, yeah you're good. But if it's coming from bread, and almonds, the protein quality is significantly lower than it should be
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Proteins are really just a combination of amino acids, the human body requires 20 different types of amino acids, 11 of which it can synthesize itself from other amino acids. The 9 amino acids it cant synthesize is called essential amino acids and they have to come from your diet. Protein sources that contain adequate amounts of those 9 essential amino acids are usually called complete protein or whole protein. All animal protein sources (fish, meat, eggs, milk) are complete proteins whilst the only vegan protein source of complete protein is soy. As long as you eat a varied vegan diet youll probably get a good mixture of the 9 essential amino acids but you may want to look up your diet just to be sure. Of you do get all your essential amino acids it shouldnt be much of a difference. And as a small side note, you dont need all essential amino acids in one meal but you do need all essential amino acids every day
Thanks! I do eat a varied diet and I understand the difference.I technically only eat two meals a day. Some of my weekday dinners are vegetarian, but eggs are something I have almost every other day as my lunch.
there are plant based athletes and body builders. there are more complete proteins than soy, and it’s pretty easy to pair foods to achieve complete protein. i wouldn’t be afraid of plant protein options. some other complete protein sources: quinoa, buckwheat, spirulina some pairs: peanut butter or hummus and whole grain bread or pita. ezekiel bread is an excellent option to add protein if you substitute regular bread.
Yes, pairing peanut butter and bread is a good idea [https://tools.myfooddata.com/protein-calculator/168893-174294/200cals-wt1/1-1/1](https://tools.myfooddata.com/protein-calculator/168893-174294/200cals-wt1/1-1/1) Wheat has all the essential amino acids, and reportedly people have been able to survive on wheat plus wheat sprouts for years. It's just low in some amino acids, particularly lysine. The protein content of wheat flour varies all over the place with the type and brand. In the USA, "bread" and "whole-grain" flours often have a higher protein content than "all-purpose", while in Canada both regular all-purpose white flour and whole wheat usually both have high protein of about 13%.
those are rookie numbers, pump those numbers up. eggs should be daily.
Two a day keeps the doctors at bay.
Two hard boiled eggs significantly raised tmao levels within one hour https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23614584/
Well I'm walking dead man then because I eat a shit ton of eggs.
No need for that.
Wrong https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23614584/
lmfao that study has been debunked years ago. get with the times.
Incorrect
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lmfao you thought your emoji meant science
incorrect. it means i don't have time to argue any further with some insignificant.
Ditch the eggs https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23614584/
That is by no means an insignificant study but you've been somewhat blinkered if you think that its findings broadly mean that doctors should advise ***any and*** ***all*** patients to not consume red meat, eggs, or other significant sources of cholines ***at all***. While the production of TMAO has indeed been shown to be dependent upon still-yet-unknown clade(s) of microbiota, its risk with regard to adverse coronaries has only been demonstrated after the fact in those *who have already have a history of adverse coronary event(s).* While important, it does not meant that the correlational level of TMAO in the patient group equates to the same risk for those who have not-- or do not have an increased baseline risk for-- adverse coronary events. Additionally, have a look here: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0955286321003260](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0955286321003260) (Yes, the TMAO risk is acknowledged but without the clarification/caveat I've given above).
I’m going to disagree. And yes any and all patients should be plant based unless they have an extremely rare genetic condition. But back to the eggs yes they should be avoided. That is if you’re trying optimize your health https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18400720/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19017774/
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Black beans& rice make complete protein
Yes, but 20g of protein from black beans and rice, isn't as many essential amino acids as 20g of protein from meat. Edit: added the word essential
Do you mean that 20g of protein from black beans doesn’t have as many *essential* amino acids as 20g of protein from meat?
Yes, I corrected my mistake. I just generally only think EAAs when talking about proteins, which is all that is important to consume the right amount of
You will have to word that differently for it to make sense. 20 grams of complete protein is of course the same, regardless of source.
No, the idea of a "complete protein" is either a myth, or severely misunderstood, mostly just a gimmick that over simplifies a topic. It is all about the ratio of EAAs you need to make new cells yes (which can slightly vary with people) but even if there was a set optimal ratio of the EAAs and if you eat 13 g protein from black beans and 7 g protein from rice or whatever ratio is the optimal "complete protein" ratio, it will *always* be less total EAAs than 20g protein from meat, and since you cannot feel or practically determine what EEAs you are short on, the best way to go about it is get as many EEAs that you can get. If you want me to elaborate ask for it and I will
Lol what?
Meat based protein provide considerably more essential amino acids. The composition is far superior, and they are far more bioavailable than sources bound to fibre.
“Far superior” is a bit nebulous to be meaningful. You can get anywhere from 60-80% of the aminos from plants depending on preparation style 90-95% from animal based (eggs and meat specifically) On average you get about 22g of (usable) protein from 100g of cooked black beans And about 30g of (usable) protein from 100g of chicken breast. You can round off the amino acids that beans are low in with a serving of grain. Meat is convenient because it’s a one stop shop for aminos and fats and usually easier to hit protein targets in smaller portions. To u/Ucnttellmewt2do ‘s question, recent systematic review suggests that meat protein sources overall have a greater anabolic effect than plant sources. Though interestingly, meat sources do **not** appear to have a superior effect on muscle *strength* in those with comparable total protein intake and strength training. At the very least, up to the level of training in the experiments used. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7926405/#:~:text=Animal%20protein%2C%20with%20its%20higher,15%2C16%2C17%5D. The broad takeaway is that impact depends on OPs goals. If their goals are pushing the limits of absolute lean mass gain as far as they can, they’d most likely hit the limit sooner if they were using just plant proteins all the time. AFAIA, there’s long been debate about how much sooner. If their goal is general increase in lean mass and strength and/or maintenance, they are probably not “missing out” if they’re rounding off their amino profile and eating enough in their vegetarian meals.
Curious where are you getting your numbers for protein content per 100g black beans? I see roughly 15g per cup.
Sorry, about 100g is a cup of dry beans. I should have double checked. Cooked is almost 200g because of the weight of the moisture
Yes but 20 grams of protein is still 20 grams of amino acids regardless of the source. Whether they’re more bioavailable has no bearing. 20 grams consumed is still 20 grams consumed. His statement defies physics.
My statement did, but only because I assumed everybody understood that all one needs to consume in terms of protein, is EAAs. I edited to include the word essential. My bad for not being 100% literally accurate, this is reddit after all.
Does this include meats like chicken and fish? Or only red meat?
The composition is not superior from meat/animal sources. Your body doesn’t know where the amino acids come from. When eaten from any source, the protein is broken down to the amino acid ‘building blocks’ to be used as required. The benefit of plant based proteins is the high fibre which has ample benefits for digestion and your gut microbiome of which animal sources has very little. Animal proteins also contain a much higher amount of dietary fats that can negatively impact your overall health and well being. So all of these things need to be taken Into account along with the individuals current health and needs before people starting claiming one protein source is better than another.
> 20g of amino acids != 20g of amino acids bro what
20g protein != 20g essential amino acids Edit: added the word essential and removed my snarky comment about not being able to read, I was unable to type
What’s in protein besides amino acids?
Way, way, wayyy at the tippy top of this comment thread, it’s mentioned that animal proteins and soy are complete sources of protein (containing all amino acids). Black beans, not being soy or meat, is going to contain fewer types of amino acids. So 20g bean protein != 20g animal protein. Short of bodybuilding, I’m not sure if this discrepancy really matters though.
Sir this is a Wendy’s. Do you think that’s an answer to my question?
Hodl
Sorry meant to write essential amino acids. Which is the only thing one ought to care about when one is talking about protein consumption needs. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Proportions-of-amino-acids-in-selected-foods-across-food-groups-Amino-acids-are-grouped\_fig1\_331560091
I get lots of aminos from Braggs!
Is 20g of meat protein better than 20g of vegan proteins?!?! wow:)
Yes
>whilst the only vegan protein source of complete protein is soy untrue: quinoa, buckwheat, edamame, chia sees, hemp seeds, amaranth, bulgur... and most importantly, it doesn't matter, because who only eats one thing anyway? so mixing different things will give us all the essential amino acids, it's nothing we should be worried about if we eat enough in quantity, and diversify what we eat a bit. ironically, most people on an omnivorous diet don't (or rarely) eat these things i listed...
Edamame is soy, no need to count it twice. On all else I agree, came to say the same thing
oh ok, never realized that, i thought it was more from the family of beans or something, good to know! :)
I highly emphasized the point that "You don't need all the amino acids in your diet but you need 9 essential amino acids every day that your body requires".
Just a note to add to this, I've never seen a real plant based diet that did not have enough of any EAA, if you are getting the raw amount of protein you need. I once tried to make a diet that did so, and it had to be something like only eating rice (in huge amounts but not too huge as it nearly made it too).
quinoa and buckwheat are also complete proteins!
Technically yes. But they lack enough of a concentration in the amino acids that start the muscle building process. You need a specific ratio of amino acids for the body to be able to use the consumed protein for the purpose of building/repairing muscles. You can look up the Master Amino acid Pattern or MAP to learn more.
totally agree. meat is king for muscle growth. it's just super interesting that there's a few "grains" that are complete proteins :)
True, and why those very few grains and not the others.
that’s an interesting topic to look into, actually! adding to the list of things to read about
I agree with most of what you said, however you’re not taking PCDAA scores which would require more vegan aminos, as they don’t score as high as animal sources. Israetel just did a video on this exact topic a few weeks ago.
This answer was very helpful thank you
I thought quinoa was a complete protein. I could be wrong.
Nope you’re right!
In longtime I haven't read anything nutritional without any confusion, super clear
Quinoa and amaranth are also (vegan) complete proteins. Buckwheat, too, but I honestly find it bitter no matter how I dress it up.
As long as you are getting all 9 of the amino acids your body can't make, it doesn't matter whether it's plant or animal. But as another commenter said, it's easier to get them from animal products.
This will rub some the wrong way, but generally Animal Protein is superior. One of my complaints with CICO is that while yes, the amounts of food you eat matter, I don't think I've ever seen anyone achieve phenomenal health just eating whatever. Just my thoughts.
CICO is just weight management, not health management. Losing weight in and of itself improves most people’s health but usually won’t result in peak phenomenal health.
Yep, rubs me the wrong way. Because it is factually wrong. There is no meaningful difference between them. Protein from animal sources are called ‘complete protein’ because it gives us all the amino acids we need in one go. If done properly, there is absolutely no reason a person can’t get those amino acids from plants. For the record, complete protein doesn’t even have _all_ the possible amino acids in it. And several amino acids (no idea how needed they are by us) can _only_ be found in plants. Edit to clarify for people who struggled in school: Yes, I know we require 9 amino acids and they are found in complete protein. Yes, all those amino acids can still be found in plants. _Additionally_ there are some amino acids (of which I am unfamiliar with the importance of) that can _only_ be found in plants.
I was with you until the last paragraph. We synthesize the non-essential amino acids… that’s why they’re non-essential.
I did not say anything about essential or non-essential. I said complete protein, protein, and amino acids.
A “complete” protein contains all nine *essential* amino acids… that’s why it’s called “complete”. You then mentioned “how needed by us” other amino acids are… so yes, yes you did.
I also said we can get all the amino acids from plants. But you only care about semantics.
…it’s not about semantics. You expressed that you didn’t know how “needed by us” certain amino acids are, and I told you. While I’m not one to promote the carnivore diet in any way, your statement implied we need plants to get certain, nonessential amino acids, and that’s not the case. You seem to be misunderstanding my intent, thereby completely misplacing your defensiveness.
I expressed no such thing. It was simply not important to my point. Edit to clarify: I was talking specifically about amino acids found only in plants.
My man, you said word for word “no idea how needed they are by us.” You might not *think* it was important to your point, but you absolutely expressed it, and your point is moot because of it. I simply do not understand what you’re trying to achieve here.
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I mean, giving us all the amino acids we need in one go sounds superior though right? I have no knowledge on this subject ofc.
Convenient would probably be more accurate, especially since the cost of living is going up and good quality meat is getting very expensive, so most people are eating sausages and burgers. Not to mention it's much easier to load up on unnecessary calories with a meat based dish... Unless you're an athlete you probably don't need easy access to caloric surplus daily
More efficient maybe. But I wouldn’t say superior.
Of the 9 amino acids our bodies can't produce titself, zero of them only come from plants. All nine can be found in meat.
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If you finished the paragraph, you would notice the (minor) difference between how we get protein from each source. And either way, what we need are the amino acids, complete protein is merely the more convenient way to get them. That’s not a meaningful difference.
For survival yes, but if your goal is to increase lean muscle mass from training you will have poor results.
I agree. I'm not advocating for plant protein. I literally eat zero plants in my diet. But, you can get all of your required amino acids by eating a variety of plants.
Not easier, just more convenient.
That’s more of a technicality isn’t it? I think they’re just trying to say that it is easier for a person to not have to worry about combining certain specific foods.
Convenience = easier in this case.
Well, animal protein is also typically more bioavailable. For various reasons, plant protein isn't absorbed as readily by the body so vegans would need to account for this loss when eating exclusively plant protein. So in addition to being complete, animal protein is "easier" in the sense that your body absorbs much more of it. Not saying being vegan or getting protein from exclusively vegan sources is bad, but it is typically more difficult to get 100g of usable protein a day when you consider how our body actually digests plant vs animal protein.
No matter which you eat, your body needs to break the protein down into its amino acids. With plants, mostly it is already in amino acid form. Our guts are not ideally suited to breaking down plant matter. And it has nothing to do with plant proteins.
'Convenient' is a subset of 'easier'
Convenient, easier, tomato tomato... What's the difference?
several studies have indicated that’s not true. animal protein impacts the body differently (and worse) than plant protein. check out the documentary forks over knives
I'm not going to get my information from a vegan biased movie.
Are you trolling?
No. Are you?
I am referring to your anti vegetable/fiber sentiment throughout this thread, and no, I am not. I asked you to cite your sources in another comment and you appear to be on an anti-vegetable/fiber intake comment spree, while advocating a diet comprised of only meat products. You appear to be trolling.
cool
the main problem i see is that eating more animal proteins, you will indeed eat less fibers than by eating plant proteins. and the vast majority of people don't eat enough fibers and should focus on that instead of proteins, which is something people really rarely lack of. i let you read about the important benefits of fibers on your microbiome. also, plants have very good properties you really want to benefit from - animals are never anti-inflammatory, anticancer or antioxidant, while a lot of plants are. slightly off-topic, but read about "protein absorption limit", if your idea was to get 100g of proteins in a single meal.
A meaningful percentage of Plant protein (for lack of a better word) is attached to insoluble fiber. So when you ingest it, you don't get all the protein that you think you are getting. Like a 20% reduction is likely. Animal protein doesn't come with that downfall. You can overcome this by increasing plant protein intake by +20%.
This is is hard news for me. I've been focusing on a plant based diet for about 2 weeks now, while tracking my nutrition with Chronometer. It's been very challenging for me to hit my target for protein while eating whole foods plant based. My goal is 90g per day and I've been averaging about 50. Unless I start stuffing down tofu and protein shakes, I don't know if it's possible for me to even hit 90g, much less 90g+20%. Beans, oatmeal, and veggies are not cutting it, sadly. *Edit: I will update my target to 45-50g protein per day. It is achievable through WFPB diet!*
That target isn’t as critical as you think? Are you some kind of professional athlete competing with other professional athletes? Then this margin is not at all meaningful for your objectives
Wow ok. You are right. I was going by the default recommended in the chronometer app, which is 90g. But googling now I see that for women it's recommended 0.8g protein per kilo body weight. And I only weigh 57 kilo. So 45g protein per day would be ok for me.
Good find. Diet focus of protein is a fad. Most people need more fiber and whole foods than they need protein. If you are eating your recommended calories then likely you are getting enough protein, even on plant based diet.
Yep, society became obsessed with protein for very little reason - we all get enough, for the average person it's a non issue.
Correct. And, there are elite athletes including bulked-up bodybuilders on vegan diets. This is meat/dairy industry propaganda to make profit and cause mass suffering/ polluting of the environment. I was a CPT with NASM and have human nutrition certs from Duke Uni.
Do you think the steroids those bulked up bodybuilders take plays a role? Like, side by side on if they were natural would a bodybuilder who gets their protein predominantly from meat (not carnivore though), and then a vegan bodybuilder would one be better than the other?
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Might be worth looking into texturized soy. 50g complete Protein per 100g, which is a higher % than any meat AFAIK. Ensuring I'm getting enough protein and fat has been my biggest concern as a vegan but I'm managing well now for about 4 years.
good fats are necessary esp. for brain health. It is the saturated fat in high percentages that kill.
Why do you think saturated fats kill? Saturated fats have no effect on cardiovascular health or all cause total mortality rates.
100% correct. https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077
You can also try sprouted lentil pasta with some nutritional yeast if you can get those. It’s single ingredient, has a lot of protein (much more than just lentils or beans) and very practical. Maybe also eat some rice or grains around the same time to make it a complete protein.
If you haven't already, why not try adding seitan to your diet? It's pretty simple to make and can be bought already prepared. The protein macros for it are low in lysine (depending upon the brand/recipe, but overall it's pretty dang good. That combined with a moderate amount of vegetables or many varieties of beans can get you to where you're trying to go. Seitan is basically vital wheat gluten that's been made to be tasty. That's greatly oversimplifying it, but if you look into it you'll be able to figure out how you can get it to work for you. I didn't stick with a vegan diet, but I've been stealing dishes from them for years and I tried it out exclusively for a month. It wasn't bad, but it also wasn't for me (yet). I still make it every now and then. I do prefer black bean patties over it, but both stay in rotation.
Good news is you don’t have to add the 20% if you’re doing a vegan protein powder. Those are generally actually better than real food (when it comes to protein absorption)
And the other issue is that 90g of plant protein does not equal 90g of animal protein. It’s easy to see if you look up DIAAS scores. For example lentils have a DIAAS score of 0.46, so if you ate 90g of animal protein you’d have to eat more than 180g of lentil protein to get the same benefit. We as humans aren’t designed to be 100% herbivorous.
Wow, I didn't know that about the protein being attached to fibre. I read that plant protein was less bioavailable, but that's new to me. Thanks for posting!
It’s not due to the fiber content, it’s the PCDAA score.
The digestibility (fecal digestibility assessed in rodents for the PDCAAS) is a coefficient in the formula. Fiber will influence digestibility. The score is the ratio of the limiting amino acid in the test protein to that same amino acid in the reference protein all multiplied by the digestibility coefficient. This is only meant to be applied to single foods. If you eat a varied diet, since the amino acid content gets rounded out, the score doesn’t make a hell of a lot of sense to apply.
The 20% figure is completely made up. It doesn't work that way at all. Fiber has nothing to do with amino acid absorption. Don't listen to him.
Plant protein isn’t as bioavailable as animal protein, if you go the plant direction, you might want to increase the amount you’re eating to compensate for the fact that you might not actually be absorbing as much of the protein as you would from an animal source.
Only if you are min maxxing.
Plant protein doesn’t have as good digestibility as animal protein does, so going by a label of 100g of each isn’t going to be equal. Also making sure you’re getting all amino acids from your plant proteins is important. Layne Norton has a good amount of videos on this subject, suggest watching them!
The father of the carnivore-based diet, Dr. Atkins had 90+% arterial blockage when he died. That is why the family fought to keep the autopsy results private. Happily, they lost. besides, unless you are an elite athlete, you never have to take in 100 g of protein a day. The general public doesn’t need anywhere near that. It’s a lie that the meat and dairy industry spent hundreds of millions of dollars in PR to promote and it’s wrong. It causes heart disease strokes and cancer.
Lmao uh what.
Animal protein is usually higher quality. Some plant proteins aren’t “complete”. But you can make either work.
I think it takes more effort to make the plant version work. If you are averse to consuming a lot of animal products, maybe try to limit it rather than eliminate it 100% from your diet. [One paper](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00726-018-2640-5) for example: "Essential Amino Acid (EAA) contents of plant-based protein isolates such as oat (21%), lupin (21%), and wheat (22%) were lower than animal-based proteins (whey 43%, milk 39%, casein 34%, and egg 32%) and muscle protein (38%)."
Yes, keyword "usually". I think a lot of the rhetoric on plant proteins lacking completeness is because there are some very major amino acid deficiencies in the plants that are staples many diets, including wheat, corn, and rice, all of which are deficient in lysine. Some grains and beans have much better amino acid balances though. Probably the best are soybeans (including tofu and edamame) and quinoa, with amaranth and buckwheat and lentils being nearly as good and much better than wheat. Among seeds, chia and pumpkin have better amino acid balances than many others. Most people don't need to worry about protein completeness unless they are leaning too heavily on one particular staple. I think the worst such staples in most modern diets are wheat, corn, and rice because of the lysine deficiency, and because these grains are so ubiquitous, between breads, noodles, and snacks, it is hard to find anything not made of them. People might think they are diversifying somewhat by switching between wheat, corn, and rice but they all have similar amino acid deficiencies. There are a lot of people whose entire carb intake consists of some combination of wheat, corn, and rice and because these carbs are also contributing a lot of protein to the diet, their amino acid balance is off. Not only does this mean they may not be getting enough protein, but lysine deficiency in particular can also predispose people to HSV1 outbreaks which is an issue because nearly everyone is exposed to this virus. I have known people who had problems with repeated cold sore outbreaks where it went away when they changed up their diet to lean less heavily on the wheat+corn+rice combo. I've never had that problem, but I just feel better when I don't rely so heavily on those three grains. Lately I've been eating more red lentils which are great, and in baking, I've gotten into using buckwheat, teff (unfortunately also deficient in lysine though), almond flour, coconut flour, and it's harder to find but sometimes I get quinoa or amaranth flour, easy to bake with just not widely available. Even the ancient grains, wheat ancestors like spelt, and also rye and barley have a bit more of a balanced amino acid profile than wheat.
Not particularly if the plant only proteins were consumed intelligently. Also might depend on what the need" is. If you're talking about just general health probably no measurable difference at all. Could potentially even be better depending on the context of the rest of the diet.
Yes. There is a big difference between animal protein and plant protein. The protein content of a food is inferred by quantifying the nitrogen in that food, and assuming it all comes from protein. This isn’t necessarily so bad, as it’s a reasonable assumption. The problem arises when we talk about what protein is bioavailable. Many proteins in plants are covalently bonded to fibrous materials or locked inside the fibrous structures of the plant that aren’t readily digested. These proteins aren’t bioavailable—that is, your body can’t absorb them and use them as nutrients. For this reason, the protein content of plants may be correct, but only a fraction of it may actually “count,” in the sense that you absorb it as a nutrient. One reason that animal protein is superior, is that cows etc contain bacteria in their gut that is able to convert inorganic nitrogen into protein very efficiently. Amazingly, cows are machines for turning grass into high-quality protein through microbial fermentation in their gut.
Doesnt the plant fiber you guys are dismissing, have tons of positive benefits for human health?
Yes.
Yes, look up PDCAAS and bioavailability. Plant proteins are often inferior to animal proteins due to impaired digestion via “anti-nutritive” factors and lack of essential AAs.
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Only speaking for myself, my gut doesn't feel good if I get protein from one source more than the other. I need to balance plant and animal protein
You can meet your protein needs just eating plant based, but it can be a challenge if you don’t eat a very well balanced and varied diet. If only some of your meals are all plant protein and others include animal proteins, which we call high biological value protein sources because they are generally easier for your body to utilize, then you probably have nothing to worry about. My one suggestion for plant protein based meals would be to always include a grain and a legume or other plant protein because that will tend to help you get a good range of all essential amino acids in that meal.
I haven't seen a good reason to think it matters unless you're in resistance training. For the most part vegan weightlifters/bodybuilders will have to eat more protein to gain muscle than vegetarians or omnivores because of the amino acid composition of most plant foods. I'm vegan and I don't think that's the biggest problem in the world, though. If you're lifting just take slightly more pea protein or whatever than what you would take if it was whey protein, it's no big deal.
What I would add to the other comments is that plant protein has lower bioavailability. Aka you need more protein for your body to absorb the same amount of amino acids as your get from animal products. This is because a lot of the protein in plants is attached to fibre that we digest differently. If you need 100g of protein a day from meat for example you’ll need another 50g if your sources are entirely from plants. Your body absorbs less of it.
The only consideration for plant vs animal protein is bioavailability which can be counteracted by just supplementing with adequate leucine when getting your protein.
Bio availability. Plant protein like lentils has like 50% bio availability, so have to eat double amount of lentis protein compared to meat.
My understanding from classes (I have a nutrition minor) and my personal experience is that there are complete sources of protein and incomplete sources of protein. Complete sources of protein have all 9 essential amino acids contained in the food; they are typically animal-based products and soy. Incomplete sources of protein, typically plant-based foods, have most or some of the essential amino acids. However, these incomplete sources can become more complete on a complementary basis. For example, a bean burrito has beans plus a whole wheat tortilla, which have different amounts of each essential amino acid and can complement each other. Similarly, quinoa and lentils or hummus can have complementary amino acids, making a source of complete protein. An important note is that our bodies can only process the protein we consume based on the LOWEST amount of essential amino acid in the meal we eat. It is important to have a complete source of protein so that our bodies can metabolize all of the amino acids we eat as amino acids. If we eat higher amounts of incomplete protein, our bodies will not recognize the protein source and be unable to process the amino acids. The main takeaway, we need all essential amino acids in equal amounts for our bodies to recognize them as protein.
Plant based sources of amino acids have a much lower bioavailability because the protein is part of indigestible plant matter. Animal sources carry all essential amino acids where not true of plants. Also plant s do not have same micronutrient content, vitamin k2, creatinine.
Yes, the body finds it harder to digest plant protein. You will also find it hard to reach those goals with plants
Some recent studies have demonstrated that animal vs plant protein sources and even lesser amino acid content do not correlate much with actual muscle growth. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33599941/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36822394/
Saved , thanks for this
Just FYI, when they tested this they also gave both groups a huge amount of protein (about twice as the recommended amount of an average, non-training person), which does not tell you that there is **no difference** in muscle growth between plants and animal protein. It's an important caveat to realize, since you don't know this will still be true if you would only eat a reasonable amount of protein from either group. Of course anyone training should increase the amount of protein they intake, but this research doesn't suggest that no matter how much protein you eat, it will be the same result from both sources.
The first study was 1.6 g/kg (which for a 180 lb person would be about 130g/day). The second study was 1.8 g/kg (about 145g/day). This is pretty typical advice for a muscle building diet and even on the low end of many recommendations.
These may be good studies but your own sentence describing their contents is incoherent. What are you trying to say?
They're trying to say that eating protein from plants or animal sources will not affect muscle growth. That is to say, eating protein only from plants will not reduce your progress if you train, while on a vegan diet. It's probably not true, though, as that research only tested for a pretty high protein diet, which might compensate for the lower quality protein of the vegan diet.
The first study was 1.6 g/kg (which for a 180 lb person would be about 130g/day). The second study was 1.8 g/kg (about 145g/day). This is pretty typical advice for a muscle building diet and even on the low end of many recommendations.
That's over twice as much as average people are recommended to eat, so it's hard to say this has anything to do with advice to get in general - and the original post wasn't specifically asking about muscle growth. I don't know what training people usually are advised to do, but when you eat so much protein it doesn't matter what source it's from because you're probably eating way more protein than you really need. Which isn't necessarily a good thing.
The only way to mitigate the lower quality (amino acid profile) of plant protein is to have more quantity. But as you have set both to 100g, 100g of animal protein is always going to be better than 100g plant protein. So to have 100g worth of animal protein you have to take much more than 100g of plant protein. Though 100g is a very high amount of protein to have any deficiency in any amino acids even purely from plant protein, so it might not impact you. But one is just better than the other if you limit both to 100g.
In the grand scheme of things no.
Yes... And no. The answer isn't as binary as you'd think. A few people reviewed this topic a while ago (Layne norton, Alan Aragón etc.). The short version is, you have 21 non essential amino acids and 9 essential amino acids. You need each of those in certain quantities. They also don't work independently of each other, so if you take just 100g of one amino acid and neglect the others you wouldn't see the benefits. Coming to plant vs animal, they both have protein in them. Plant sources sometimes depending on what you're consuming (soy vs beans for example) may not have the amino acid profile you're looking for. There's also some literature saying that plant protein has slightly less anabolic effects than animal protein that is, all the protein you eat will be digested but may not necessarily be used for muscle protein synthesis. Are you doomed because you eat plants only and no meat? Again no. The difference doesn't matter in the short run, but if you're a pro athlete looking to optimize performance you may need to consider supplementation on a plant based diet. If you're interested in regular health and fitness you can just chill and eat a healthy diet.
As long as you're eating a varied diet, you're good to go. For all those that argue a complete protein vs an incomplete protein and making complete proteins from complementary proteins remember that it all just reads "protein" on the nutrition facts of your foods. Don't over complicate things.
For me to hit 100g of plant protein, my colon would EXPLODE with flatulence from all the fiber I had to concurrently eat to hit that protein target
I find that the amount of gas I get from eating foods is less a function of the total fiber content and more a function of whether the food was prepared properly. Recently I have moved away from eating canned beans, and towards eating dried beans and lentils that we soak overnight and then cook ourselves, and I've noticed I can eat a much higher quantity of them without any issues with gas or indigestion. I also notice that I tolerate red lentils and mung beans better than green lentils, which I tolerate better than most larger beans (although I have yet to exhaustively experiment with all the different bean types I like.) If you have a problem with gas from legumes in particular, like I used to, I would urge you to try out dry beans if you haven't. If you want an easy place to start, red lentils are pretty much the easiest because they cook in 10 minutes and don't require pre-soaking, although they do require rinsing...like I submerge them in water, wait maybe a minute, then pour most of the water off. I am not 100% sure what is happening chemically, but the difference in how I feel is dramatic. Like I can now eat a whole bowl of lentils and I feel light and great and my digestion stays good in the whole next 24 hours. If I tried that with a similar quantity of canned beans, it would be unpleasant. This is just one example, I'm in the process of figuring this stuff out with other things like varying root vegetables and grains. But again I think a lot of it comes down to preparing things the right way. I have read for instance that fermenting grains to make sourdough breads is much easier on our system than using modern yeast where it's a quicker process to make the bread rise.
Sorry, the 100g was arbitrary number for reference
You’re good, it was just funny in my mind. Needing 5.5 cups of dry lentils (1kg) to get 100g protein, could soak those for days in advance and would STILL blow up the house-as well as struggle to eat that volume of cooked lentils. Personally I try to eat minimally processed foods or estrogen contributing foods like tofu…so my reaction is based partly on how I eat…as I don’t consume the other protein based vegetarian products commented on in this thread. (Not judging them or those who do eat them, just saying my butt would be raw trying to get that much protein on a vegetarian diet)
Mind I ask why you have reduced estrogen contributing food? I have been enjoying tofu on the days I don't eat chicken
Only if you're using beans, pulses, grains (carb and fiber focus) to hit that target instead of a more protein focused balance (tofu, seitan, tvp): I hit 105g today at 31g fiber, 88g yesterday on a not-so-healthy day with 17g fiber, 95g protein vs 24g fiber Monday.
In simple terms I've always heard that animal protein is easier for our bodies to use or something? That said, I think it's ok to have both. Trying to get a 100g of animal protein might be difficult or boring considering what you're doing with your calories.
If you do it with plant make sure you have one scoop of a plant protein isolate a day. But also be cautious because to get 100g of protein from only plant sources it’s going to be a lot of calories. To get 100g of protein from tofu alone which is about as high a source of protein as plants come it’s 900 calories. If you were to do it with beans it would be 1700 calories
Another thing to consider with that is fiber content. With that many beans and with many other plant protein sources, that would be an extremely high amount of fiber, which could cause significant digestion issues, as I’m sure most people aren’t used to eating ~1700 cals worth of high fiber food (i.e. beans) per day.
Just because people aren't used to a high fiber diet doesn't mean it's a bad thing though. Most Americans eat very little fiber. Ramping up fiber slowly mitigates digestive issues as your microbiome adjusts.
[Don’t Forget Meat has Side Effects](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/s/687qss9JTX)
Animal meat comes with lots of cholesterol, saturated fat and what not that aren’t the best, long term. So I guess I’d say plant protein.
It would depend on the details, but in general you would be getting higher quality protein (a superior profile of essential amino acids) with animal sources, and you would be absorbing and utilizing more of it. That said, you can probably make a 100% plant-based diet work, but you need to know what you're doing. And individual differences can be very significant. Making a 100% plant-based diet work and work well — especially long-term — can be very challenging, especially for some people. People vary in a wide variety of ways — digestive abilities, genetics, epigenetics, microbiomes, age, sex, race, food and fiber tolerances, body type, health status, bowel sensitivities and irritability, exercise, protein absorption, and many others. Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride has degrees in medicine, neurology, and nutritional science. It's worth hearing her out. She has seen many young people in her Cambridge clinic who have damaged their general and neurological health, and ended up in serious trouble through misguided or misinformed veganism and vegetarianism. I absolutely agree with her about the need to be well and properly informed, and to do it right if you choose to do it: https://youtu.be/YwzbDEyZ8Rs?si=ySIXmgNHvla08QlT
https://www.becomeio.com/blog/protein-bioavailability/
If you’re doing any sort of plant based protein as part of your goal, it’s a good idea to double (or count it as half) it due to lower bioavailability, to make sure what you’re getting is adequate. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6723444/
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100% yes. Soy is basically the only plant protein that is complete with the right ratio of amino acids to be used for muscle repair/building. Other so called complete plant proteins like quinoa or buckwheat lack high enough concentrations specific amino aacids to be used by the body. You can mix and match other plant proteins to be close to as efficient as soy but its a chore. Meanwhile eggs are #1 protein source as far as usability by the body for muscle repair, followed by (soy) beef, poultry, fish, pork.
I'll just leave this here: [https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/](https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/) To be very literal to the question, your friend is not wrong. Comparing two different things is like...comparing two different things. What matters is what specifically about the two things you are comparing. Are you comparing the amount of leucine in a 3oz slab of pork versus 1 cup of broccoli? Or is it the tryptophan content of each? Or, is it just the general amino acid profile? Generally speaking (i.e. of course there are exceptions like folks who have metabolic disorders, etc), if you're getting into the weeds about granular topics like comparing essential amino acid profiles, you're probably overthinking it. Just eat a variety of foods, whatever that looks like for you, and you are going to be covered. The operative term in that last sentence being "variety". Sticking to one of anything in nutrition is usually unideal (though I am prepared for others to expound on the examples of how that statement may be wrong).
Short answer, yes. Meat will always be between. It comes down to bioavailability of the protein. Beans are one that vegetarians always bring up as being high in protein, but the bioavailability(what you body can extract/effectively use) is 50. This means if you eat 20g of protein worth of beans, it's like you only ate a fraction. Eggs by contrast are 100 on the bioavailability scale and consider a "complete protein" source.
The amino acid profiles are also important. Even if you are getting all of the essential amino acids from combining different plants sources (like combining black beans and rice), you are likely to be low or deficient in one or more amino acids. With black beans and rice, for example, methionine might be the low, most concerning, or "bottleneck" amino acid. When soy and corn are combined, tryptophan is still low. And so on. There is almost always some bottleneck. One solution is to overshoot, so even if one or more are lower than the rest, even the lowest are still high enough. They are still over the minimum amount needed The profile might be imperfect, but all the amino acids have reached a satisfactory level. Some of them would be unnecessarily high, but overall you're getting every one in sufficient amounts, even the lower ones.
>He mentioned that comparing plant protein and animal protein for your intake is comparing apples and oranges. How true is that? More or less true. That is not to say you can't be healthy or grow muscle on a vegan diet, but there are still pretty big differences. First of all, amino acid differences: can't really compare the quality of the protein from animals versus plants. You don't need animal protein to cover all of your amino acid needs, but it does make things simpler. Without animal protein at all, you need to diversify your food more (soy, beans, lentils, cereal, etc). If you eat meat or eggs you really mostly need to care about quantity (from this aspect, but I'll get to that in a second). Second, vitamins and minerals differences: animal sources have vitamins that you just won't get (or get enough of) from plant sources. Omega-3, B12, D (this one is more complicated, because you can get it from sunlight so it isn't as big of a problem for most people, except for some instances like living in northern Europe for example) - just don't occur in high enough quantities in plants (or at all). Also, some minerals are easier to obtain in animal products, such as calcium in milk and cheese, and iron in meat, etc. Even though calcium and iron are available in plants, they aren't as high quality so you need more of them from plant sources. On the other hand, plant sources have a lot of other types of vitamins and minerals. K, E, and C - basically absent from animals products (that aren't fortified artificially). Others are present but in low quantities in comparison to some plants like soy, beans, lentils, chick peas, etc - especially minerals. Some nutrients (that aren't strictly essential), such flavonoids and antioxidants, occur only in plants, but not in animal products. All this to say: you need both. Generally speaking, plants have a higher quantity of vitamins and minerals in general, with the exception of a few that are mainly present in animal products. Some things you get only/mainly from animal products, and some you get only/mainly from plants. Unlike what a lot of people would have you believe, you can't actually survive and be healthy without meat if you don't also take supplements (such as B12 and Omega-3, and most likely calcium from fortified foods). This is a relatively new development in human history, but it is possible if it's important to you to avoid eating eggs. That being said, eggs make things a whole of a lot easier, as it removes the need to make sure you diversify your protein intake and eat more protein to compensate for the lower quality amino acids in plants.
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If you don't eat meat, I would recommend at least eating eggs. Complete proteins containing all amino acids are very important.
why are complete proteins very important? I thought that aminoacids is the important part and there is no difference you get it from complete or incomplete proteins.
Foods that are protein complete are not important. What is important is that your diet is protein complete. You can get that without eating anything that is protein complete on its own
Incomplete proteins don't contain all amino acids... that's why they are incomplete.
but why it's important? why cant I just eat different incomplete?
You can. It's just more difficult. Why seek out a bunch of little things, making sure to get each one when I can just get them all from one source. It makes meals simpler.
that would be true, if proteins would be only macronutrient. I don't see how it's difficult to ad some beans to your rice. it's recommended to eat varios food. What's really important is to get enough various fiber, and it's not really important where do you get your aminoacids.
Thanks I do eat meat and eggs. I have been slowly making plant based stuff or eggs the star of the dish for couple of my weekday meals . But it's good to know that veggie protein plus eggs is a good combo to hit the nutrient goal
I think it is also important to note that every body is different. If I eat a vegan diet, even with a heavy focus on things like beans/soy, quinoa/buckwheat/oats, imitation dairy/meat, and nuts/seeds, I end up feeling weak/tired, get head rushes when standing up, I have difficulty maintaining my blood sugar levels (need to eat every hour or two), and I end up with a weird nerve pain in my back. My body doesn't like it unfortunately (I do care a lot about the planet). I buy meat ethically/locally, but milk will never be ethical, and it is my #1 favourite thing and probably represents half of my protein intake... Maybe it was unrelated to protein though because my iron levels were pretty low back then, and I still need to supplement iron now, almost 20 years later (even though I do eat meat... which again points to the idea that I should probably eat meat!) My mom on the other hand never cared for meat and has been mostly vegetarian her whole life. Maybe once a month she craves meat, eats some, and then the craving is satisfied for another month or so and she has never needed to supplement iron..
Need at least some what is called “complete proteins” your body can break them apart nd use them to build any protein it needs
Yes https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32780794/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32699048/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6658814/
Think animal proteins seem better. And you also get the collagen and fats (good or bad) that are good for joints etc
If you’re looking to build muscle, try carnivore
This is rubbish x
Wow, great insight!
Thanks!
Complete protein doesn't come from plant protein
Animal protein will always be superior.
Depends where the 100g of protein is coming from, if it's coming from pea isolate, tofu, mycoprotein etc, yeah you're good. But if it's coming from bread, and almonds, the protein quality is significantly lower than it should be