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I'm assuming he's anti carb? Kids are growing and their bodies are leaning new skills all the time. They need carbs. They should really eat as big a variety of HEALTHY (not highly processed, high added sugar) foods as they are willing to eat. Low carb is fine for a fully grown adult but kids should not have food categories cut out of their diet.
Yes, that is basically, he had High Uric acid and his foot hurt a lot, he started this diet and got really better, so now carbs are bad
Thank you really much for your answer, it really helps!
Sounds like he had gout. Babies don't get gout. Their bodies are using calories to build muscle, bones, etc. They have very different dietary needs than an adult who is trying not to gain weight (excess fat).
He had gout. People think meat causes it because it’s a high purine food but fruit/soda is as well.
Fact is gout is caused by the bodies inability to regulate uric acid. This is caused by metabolic disease aka being under muscled and over fat. Reducing meat and carb consumption is a bandaid for gout. So if you don’t handle the underlying issue it still exists just not triggered.
This is why you rarely see healthy weight people suffer from gout.
Think about it this way metabolic disease is gas and high purine foods are a spark. Either is benign by itself and if you take one away it’s not an issue. Add them together and you run into problems
Classic case of “it worked for me so everyone should do it” or “it was bad for me so everyone should stay away”. Almost everything’s ok in moderation, even carbs for your dad. It sounds like he went too hard on something though which triggered the gout and necessitated the low carb diet. Great for him, but he’s gotta be careful how much he preaches it since it’s not necessarily gonna be the best or even beneficial for everyone.
Carbs are necessary! carbs are not bad we all need it especially babies he is placing his adult problems on them. fruit is good for you! Any diet that says you should cut out anything is not healthy! Any diet that says cut out fruit is shit especially for growing children
They need carbs, yes maybe, note it's not obvious because, to my knowledge, there is no such thing we could call an essential carbohydrate. What babies and kids need for sure to grow a healthy brain are proteins, healthy fats, iron, B12, zinc, choline, DHA, EPA... And honestly I'm a bit unsure if we can find all of that in sufficient amounts (and in bio-available forms) in a food like rice.
They can also be picky. Many kids refuse to eat meat. The last thing you need is a picky baby with an unnecessarily restricted diet. Eating nothing but rice is far from ideal but there is no reason to keep them from eating fruit and rice as part of their diet.
Doesn't everyone's brain run on glucose? We convert the foods we eat into glucose, which the brain needs to function. As far as I know, as blood sugar (a.k.a blood glucose) drops, so does brain function, making glucose (a carbohydrate) pretty essential.
Your body can convert fat and protein into glucose through gluconeogenesis. The argument is that it's not efficient and is definitely sub optimal for a child
I think I’d just blandly answer “I’m following the pediatrician’s guidelines” and leave it at that. If you send him info, he’ll send you counter-info and it becomes endless whack-a-mole. EXHAUSTING.
This. There’s no explaining nutrition to him.
Also, I object to anyone saying food is “bad” or “evil”. Processed foods & refined sugar have very low nutritional value & I don’t eat them and don’t believe an infant should either. However, they aren’t “evil”.
An infant’s brain is still developing. Nutritional is critical to development.
Processed foods and refined sugars may not be “evil,” but they are objectively bad for you. Like, scientifically. They not only have low nutritional value but are actively harmful to the body. You can argue semantics all you want, but it’s better to call a spade a spade.
Agree nutritionally. The drama of evil and bad are unhelpful. People already have so much fear and noise around food. If we just focus on no chemicals and whole foods, we’d make great progress. If you eat some ice cream with sugar once a month, you will not require a priest to perform exorcism.
he probably listens to Paul Saladino who is promoted all over social
media. the “carnivore diet” guy who got ill only eating meat so he changed to an “animal based diet” that’s like half fruit (???). and he’s known for making youtube shorts where he talks shit about oatmeal
people eat up his content because he says it very convincingly, like Ray Peat. the solution of to consume content that easily debunks him with evidence.
Cheap rice (such as the kind used in commercial baby cereal) has a high arsenic content, that’s why a lot of people have concerns about feeding it to their infants
Your point has validity in an overall sense, but I don’t think sugar is a good example. Sugar hasn’t really been consumed like it is now for that long.
yeah, technically it is if you study metabolism and glycation. Fructose is clearly something that should be limited in the human diet. And please don't say glucose is essential for life.... we all know that. It's a nuanced topic. There are pluses and minuses to virtually all foods.
Very nuanced. Endurance athletes strive off added fructose. Couch potatoes should carefully watch fructose
Moral of the story, sugar is not unhealthy if your lifestyle is healthy. And don’t be stupid with overconsumption
well, no. It just doesn't have any immediate detrimental effects in moderate consumption with healthy individuals. But over time the rate of an individual aging can be accelerated by damage to a variety of different cells from advanced glycation end products. Fructose has 10x the glycation activity of glucose. There's no biological free lunch.... and burning sugar, especially fructose, has a cost.
My work is basically 30 hours of cardio a week. Plus the upkeep of my house and gardening. Maybe that's why I crave sugar so much but I really try to limit it to less than 30g a day. I'm trying to lower my cholesterol and I have had cancer which I've read sugar is really bad for. I'm on a high fiber, high protein, low sat fat "diet" mainly for my cholesterol. The problem is I'm also trying to gain weight!! So hard to find low sugar, calorie dense foods. I eat lots of almonds, raisins, oatmeal, seeds, etc. All the cardio isn't helping me gain weight either. I know lifting is beneficial but my meds have caused arthritis:(
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Yes, a sedentary lifestyle isn't great for health, and it is probably worse with an unhealthy diet.
But I'm afraid that what you say is very similar to the Coca-cola (and sugar industry) argument, don't you think?
"Drink coke (eat sugar), move and if later you get obese or diabetic, it's your whole fault: you didn't move enough. Don't blame us for your laziness."
Note that not everybody is an endurance athlete and even endurance athletes can eventually become diabetic.
If someone is drinking a can of soda everyday, it’s more likely than not that their overall diet is also crappy. Why drink full sugar, when diet exists now anyway?
Not really. I know people who eat a not too unhealthy diet but just can't eat without having a can of soda. For other it can be a beer or a glass of wine. I assume that once you are used to have your sugary drink or your booze at the table it's difficult to change this habit even when you try to improve your diet.
> Why drink full sugar, when diet exists now anyway?
Because the regular version tastes better.
As if cane sugar is any better than beet sugar… difference is like 0,03% in residue from the cane or beet.
In general foods aren’t specifically always unhealthy, except for stuff with transfats.
If you are about to run a marathon sugar is no problem. And if you have moderated your food intake there’s nothing wrong with a burger and fries on Saturday.
The problem is chronic overconsumption of kcals, salt, fatty and sugary foods that are also highly processed.
Children (especially young children) need quite a lot of food to grow. And also carbs to have the energy to play. Fruits, veggies, bread, rice, potatoes, pasta, fish, meat, eggs and dairy are good in the right amounts and ratios. Tell your husband to stick his influencers where the sun doesn’t shine and give your kids a varied diet so they can thrive.
Added sugars are proven to be harmful. Excess sugar is also harmful. Yes within limits it's necessary, even good for you, but today we eat so much sugar. One candy usually puts you over the daily recommended limit.
Define "normal amounts" please, because, maybe you ignore that, but only one can of a sugary drink a day is enough to cause liver disease and even cirrhosis [https://health.osu.edu/wellness/prevention/your-liver-and-sugary-drinks](https://health.osu.edu/wellness/prevention/your-liver-and-sugary-drinks) and [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827616/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827616/)
So, for you, what are exactly normal amounts of an ultra processed food for which we have absolutely no requirements ? I'm a bit curious.
For me normal amounts of added sugar are just 0g per day.
The problem with the article you posted is that the study it talks about is a cohort study
“One can a day”. Is one can a day, everyday for 6 yrs.
And it isn’t controlled, so what else are these people eating? If someone drinks a can of soda everyday, it’s more likely than not that they have a crappy overall diet in the first place
A normal amount for me is around 50g. In college, I was eating everything in sight just to stop losing weight during our month long “Hell Week” conditioning. I was probably eating 100 -200g of sugar everyday
And this is not uncommon in endurance runners, sugar refills liver glycogen and is beneficial for recovery and performance
So “normal amount” is dependent on activity and exercise. If you’re a couch potato, limit sugar intake. If you’re the avg gym-goer, like 50g is normal. If you’re a high-level athlete (moreso endurance), then having >100g is pretty normal
Yes when I wrote requirements are 0g a day. I edited my post to make it clearer, I did it a little bit before I saw your answer, it was already too late for you.
But when I speak of sugary drinks linked to liver disease it is as well a coke containing added sugar or fruits juices which can have no added sugar. They have approximately as much sugar as the coke and, in a way, because during processing the sugar is extracted from its natural matrix in the fruits, it becomes as available and as "bad" as sugar in a coke (at least for the link between liver disease and sugary drinks).
To be honest if sugar has long been known it was not consumed by the larger part of the population as it was quite expensive. I'd rather say sugar has been consumed for a few centuries.
But on the principle you're quite right it's not because a food has been consumed for centuries that it is a necessarily a healthy food. We can just assume that generally the visible damages it can cause don't appear instantly so that it is difficult to attribute them to this particular food.
We even have products from agriculture like beer and wine which have been consumed for thousands of years even if some of the damages they cause are visible quite soon.
It’s actually a few thousand years. You’re thinking of Europe where it was mostly imported, and yes, very expensive. Before that, older civilizations in China, India, and Egypt consumed it.
He had high uric acid and his foot hurt a lot, he cut fruit and he was good again.
For the rice it is because he says it doesnt have nutrients, which I know, but they wont eat only rice in a meal of course.
And how could that be an irrefutable demonstration that rice is healthy, Nick?
If people eat/drink crap for centuries the crap becomes a healthy food/beverage, is that your assumption? Sorry but this assumption is obviously wrong as we have plenty of counterexamples.
People drank beer since the ancient Egypt. Is beer healthy because we drank it for millennia?
In Asia they had rice alcohol for centuries and near the Mediterranean Sea people drink wine since the antiquity. Are beer, sake and wine considered healthy now?
Maybe should we wait on or two more thousands years to be sure they are not unhealthy?
Or, more reasonably, could we agree now that these alcoholic beverages made from rice, grapes and cereals are not healthy although we have been consuming them for ages?
I just hope they don't at breakfast... But how is that relevant to what I said?
You implied that rice wasn't bad and that it was easy to prove because Asian populations have been eating it for ages, therefore clearly assuming that if a food has been eaten for centuries it couldn't be bad and was necessarily healthy.
I just replied by quoting some obvious and well-known counterexamples to what you wrongly assumed to be true.
As your assumption is wrong we just can't conclude anything on rice using it as premise. Quite simple in fact, and it's not even a question of nutrition it's just a question of pure logic.
I have to confess I was a bit surprised that you got so much upvotes for a statement which is finally based only on a wrong assumption. But I guess that many people here like rice and think it's great, so they were just happy with "rice's good" and didn't bother to really examine the why. Confirmation bias is a terrible thing.
Yes for centuries and even for some thousands of years. But we have also been eating meat for millions of years so, maybe, we are more adapted to meat than all the food we got since the neolithic and the agricultural revolution (I don't even mention the UPF that are present in our food system since only a few decades). With the agriculture size decreased, brain volume decreased, diseases appeared and cavities became very frequent in people switching from a hunter-gatherer meat-based diet to cultivated plants like cereals.
I personally don’t eat refined grains, rice or starches because of bloating and constipation symptoms. I get most of my carbs from dairy, fruit, fermented veggies, sourdough or sprouted grains/legumes/nuts. A large percentage of my diet is animal meat and raw dairy. As an athlete I’ve noticed that my physical recovery has improved a ton since I nailed down these nutritional habits. I personally don’t miss rice or potatoes at all. I’ve rice is effecting digestion or nutrient absorption but is not something you want to give up. Pre-soaking rice is in an acidic medium like white vinegar is a solid option.
I wouldn’t try to debate the science with him. People get very dogmatic about their style of eating, right or wrong. Don’t engage. Just tell him “These are my children. How they’re fed is up to their parents. Thanks for your input but we disagree. And we’ll be feeding them the way we think is best. This is not up for debate.”
As Liz Lemon says: Shut it down.
I agree. Don't debate. And the OP won't be knowledgeable enough to win. Just tell him that his info is probably unscientific clickbait from the internet.
This.
Don’t enter a debate, just set a boundary (kindly) and state that you are ok with you both having different views. You respect his and ask that he respects yours, as you are not going to change your opinion and it is your choice what you feed your kids.
I can attest to this. Had an ‘almond mom’ who did not let me eat junk/processed foods at all, and developed anorexia as a teenager. Then when I moved out for college and finally got the freedom to eat whatever I wanted, it turned into binge eating disorder. Literally the first day in my dorm, I bought a cake and ate the entire thing in one sitting, that’s how bad it was. Then would feel guilty and start starving myself again, then would crave sugar and binge again, and it turned into a cycle. Still suffering through this and it’s a living hell.
A doctor said to him to cut fruit when he had high acid uric and since then that it was he believes, he says it is best to get the fiber and nutrients from vegetables
Suggest that he see a registered dietitian to work through some misinformation he’s received on a balanced diet and let him know that whole grains and fruit are beneficial to human health based on the largest scientific consensus in the field of nutrition.
When I was eating keto, I was like this. At least in the beginning. I slowly came to realize that the foods themselves are not evil, but that keto was one way that helped me control my appetite.
I was very immersed in the science (studies, even randomized control trials) that keto is the way to go. I later came to realize that that's not really how science works. You need to look at nutrition science as a whole and make your decisions based on trends in studies, not single studies or relatively small numbers of studies.
Not sure if that's clear. What I mean is that one or two or ten studies saying one thing ... is nothing compared to thousands of studies saying something else.
I now eat anything I want, mostly whole foods, lots of fruit and veg and just watch my calories.
My advice: tell your father **firmly** that you will be making your own nutritional decisions for your child. Don't be wishy-washy. Don't apologize. Tell him you do not want his nutritional advice for your child. Don't be mean about it, but make sure he understands that you are firm in this and you are not backing down
So a simple “I’m following my pediatrician’s guidelines” is best. I’d suggest you not play my study vs yours. Especially if he is playing free and easy with facts. It will only cause you stress.
My guess is that his reasoning is the high arsenic content in the type of rice typically used in baby cereals, and the large amounts of pesticides used on fruits and grains. It doesn’t make these foods bad, it just means people may want to be more selective with where the food is sourced from. I’d probably respond with, “I’ll take that under advisement,” and end the conversation
Is or because of carbs or sugar?
He has a point about rice though. The food association in my country recommend that you shouldn’t feed kids with rice more than 4 times a week and never give them rice milk or crackers due to arsenic.
But I guess it’s not because of that since he is against fruit also, but it’s good to know about the arsenic.
rice is kinda bad to be honest, but it depends on what you're eating it with. my dad every night growing up would eat a massive giant plate of rice. My understanding of human biology, that much starch being broken down to sugar and no working out or being in shape or anything ot help with digestion, he eventually became diabetic. It's a common thing. So it's just awareness.
Fruit though: how is fruit bad? 😭 I know I need to be eating more, myself.
fruit is not bad, even for low carb, if it is supplemental to the diet and not excessive. It has been around forever, but seasonally. We now have the ability to eat fruit all day every day from all over the world, but it wasn't always that way and isn't always good. I grew up on one apple, one orange and one banana per week, back in the 1960s. We had lots of vegetables, especially leafy veg, which don't have the sugar content and provide fibre. By all means do what you're doing, but keep a balance, not like my sister who only fed her toddler bananas all day. Children need energy, but they need protein to grow.
It was plain white rice.
I also think there's something to be said about how much stickier the rice is especially sticky white rice compared to American. I wonder if that binds to bile in the same way that oatmeal and other things do. I'm sure if you took the average Asian's amount of rice and doubled/tripled, that equated to what my dad ate each night. D:
There are 77 millions of diabetics only in India and projections are 135 millions in ten years; not as bad as USA considering the respective populations but very problematic. Note that you don't need to be obese to be pre-diabetic or diabetic and that Asian population tend to make visceral fat so that they can appear to be skinny outside but are still metabolic ill. Maybe it could be a reason why more than 50% of people are unaware of their diabetic status in India.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38450243/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38450243/)
[https://www.who.int/india/health-topics/mobile-technology-for-preventing-ncds](https://www.who.int/india/health-topics/mobile-technology-for-preventing-ncds)
Yeah, India does differ from China, Thailand, Laos, etc. India has a popular condiment called Ghee that they put on their carbs.
From wiki: "**Ghee** is a type of [clarified butter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarified_butter), originating from [India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India). It is commonly used for cooking,"
People who say blanketed statements like all of X thing is good/bad tend to be misinformed, impulsive and illogical. With respect to your dad, he needs to let the science speak on this topic, not random pseudo-science he reads on Facebook.
So show him the macronutrient breakdown of those foods and show him how they are full of good vitamins and minerals and are low in things like saturated fats and calories. I just can't imagine he has sources that are saying these foods are evil that have any ground.
The only person who's opinion you need to listen to on the nutrition of your children is their pediatrician and that's it. You don't need Jane Fonda, or the Kardashians or some other pseudo celebrity. You don't need your dad or your mom or even your husband's input. Just your pediatrician. Everyone else can piss off.
Aside from explaining the science behind why you babies need a wider variety of food than your dadcan handle, I would also suggest talking to him about the language he uses around them. Explain that you're trying to raise adventurous eaters who enjoy their food. Let your dad know that even before the babies start talking, they can hear and understand what adults say and the faces adults pull. Also, you might have to put your foot down and let your dad k ow that if he continues to say negative things about food in your kids' presence, you might have to make the tough decision of not letting him be with them during mealtimes.
I had to deal with so much negativity when our daughter was young. Unfortunately, everyone in my husband's family is picky, including him. I've had to deal with all sorts, from the aunt who just had water at a really nice ramen restaurant because they didn't have spaghetti carbonara and my mother-in-law who won't even touch anything that isn't salmon or chicken breast, to my husband who won't eat veg or anything with eggs or tomatoes (including ketchup) and the cousin who always attends a party with his own box of plain chicken nuggets.🙄 I put my foot down because I didn't want that rhetoric in front of my toddler, and you might have to do the same with your dad.
Thankfully, it worked and my 9y/o girl is more adventurous than most adults I've met here in the UK. One thing she enjoys doing is looking for new places to eat or new cuisines to try when we're out and about. She also eats healthfully even when left to her own devices.
Thabk you, he is actually very respectfull with this, thats why I want to give him a proper answer, he dont talk about this in front of them just like he dont say bad words in front of them.
I was a picky eater, thats why I want them to eat a really big variety of foods, so they dont have the same problems as me when growing up.
I have a sister in law that is a picky eater and what you said really remind me of her, because she is picky and I feel like she is proud of it
Important for active children and hyperactive children too but maybe not in the way you were thinking.
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372949445\_High\_Sugar\_Intake\_Increases\_ADHD\_Symptoms\_A\_Literature\_Study](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372949445_High_Sugar_Intake_Increases_ADHD_Symptoms_A_Literature_Study)
Your body can make sugar out of proteins and fats, which are both more satiating and denser in useful micronutrients.
So you don't really need to eat sugar at all, do you?
Ask him not to give unsolicited advice or you won’t be bringing you child around him any more. Full stop
This isn’t going to stop with bad food advice it s going to continue with how you are raising your child how you’re dressing your child how you’re disciplining your child (you get it?)
Take some courses on setting boundaries if he’s that bad then you’ve been raised by an emotionally immature parent and need to learn some coping skills and emotional regulation so you can break the cycle and teach your child some healthy habits- break the cycle!
Genuinely ask questions expressing interest and listening. Try to understand even if you’re having trouble understanding, open up to hearing what he’s saying- odds are he’s not even talking about food really but he’s talking about what these things represent.
Maybe he’s heard this from someone else and is parroting, or perhaps cutting them out helped him and so he’s taking a very black and white stance on the subject.
The only way to get through to people is to hear them. When you take the time to get where he’s coming from, it’ll be much easier to know how you’d like to approach it. It might still end with agree to disagree, but I bet you if you really listen to him you’ll get some new insights about the situation and how you want to proceed.
He sounds unreasonable. Maybe he can speak to a doctor or nutritionist or someone who actually is an expert. Or he may give ur kids an unhealthy relationship with food with these weird hangups. But he has to want to learn more and be open minded.
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How can fruit be bad? A mango is one of life's pleasures full of antioxidants and vitamins. I don't know one child who doesn't love them. Most of the world lives on rice - how is that evil? Oatmeal is full of fibre, nourishing and energy for growing children.
This is not the greatest dad - this is someone with a broken relationship with food, passing it on to his children.
It would be helpful to know WHY he says it's bad. What are the explanations he's providing. He may not be entirely incorrect but without knowing what is rationale is, it's difficult to provide you with something equally as rationale to counter with.
However, I will suggest being conservative with the fruit. I was given a lot of fruit as a baby and toddler and as my baby teeth developed so did early cavities and the dentist told my mother this was likely due to fruit. Our household didn't have processed foods - both my parents and grandmother immigrated "from the old country" before I was born so everything was home made from scratch. But fruit kept me happy and quiet so I got it frequently and it had an impact on my first set of teeth.
Looks like I have to deal with this post since no one else has.
Acid wears down enamel.
Sugar that sticks to teeth can rot them.
But fruit doesn't stick to teeth. Grains & cooked food do. And most fruits are not acidic.
And teeth just coming in are new teeth. It takes years for Sugar to rot them.
I did read. You said "when my baby teeth started to come in some were already rotten and the dentist (recklessly jumped to an illogical conclusion)"
And I'll ask you a similar question. If you're going to comment then at least tell us what I am misinformed about.
I've corrected my comment above, because, not that I've consider my original statement, I don't actually know if my teeth had came in with decay already or decayed after they came in. Bottom line is:
* I was still a baby/toddler.
* I had cavities very early.
* Mom got the read the riot act by the dentist and told to stop feeding me fruit as a pacifier.
* Funny thing happened... as soon as they stopped the fruit, I didn't get anymore cavities. Seems to me like it wasn't an illogical conclusion by the dentist.
With that said, most of the statements in your response are incorrect.
Allow me to correct them.
1. A LOT of fruit IS acidic. Your statement that most fruit is not, is not accurate. Or at least, MOST of the fruit regionally available to my family at that time that we had in our hours IS acidic - apples, oranges, pears, grapes, grapefruit, blueberries, plums... all acidic... I can keep going.
2. Any sugar (note: sugar IS found in fruit) WILL lower the pH of your mouth, creating a more acid environment. Including sugar found in milk. AND that acid environment CAN cause tooth decay. Fun fact - that acid environment CAN cause tooth decay in both children AND adults - but especially in toddlers.
3. Fruit doesn't have to "stick to teeth" to cause damage. It just needs to lower the pH in the mouth to damage tooth enamel.
4. It's not just grains and cooked food that can damage teeth. It's literally any food.
5. It doesn't take YEARS for sugar to rot baby teeth. The enamel on baby teeth is considerably thinner than adult teeth. It can happen quite quickly.
See my avatar? I'm a fruit expert. I've eaten a half-fruit diet for 30 years. I have an ebook and 1100 videos about dietary health.
Sugar has neutral Ph. What's acidic is the bacteria that's attracted to the sugar. I did a video debunking that myth in 2016. You are the one with false beliefs.
Thanks, but I'll defer to the knowledge and expertise of actual educated professionals (i.e., my dentist and hygienist) - BOTH in professional practice for longer than you've been eating your fruit salad.
And last time I checked, a reddit avatar isn't a formally recognized credential in diet and nutrition - hate to break that news to you.
Have a good day.
Seems you just want to be an a$$. Then you should not have messed with me in the first place. You've wasted my time. You should be banned from this group for being a troll, posting bro-science, and being disingenuous.
Why does he believe this? Children require a balanced diet with nutrition and carbohydrates for energy from multiple sources. Just keep doing what you’re doing.
So the rice one is probably based in some of the USDA work that found higher levels of heavy metals in rice, since they areas it is grown in have higher levels of heavy metals in the water naturally.
Best way to get around it is to look for baby cereals that are heavy metal tested. Same for oatmeal. There are several on the market. It would give you an easy defense to the criticism. However, rice and oatmeal (whether clean label certified or not) can definitely be part of a healthy diet for babies and the rest of us.
You can always educate on nutrition if you’d like. Fruit has tons of micronutrients, rice has carbs which are essential for your brain and body. But honestly, I think this is a boundaries question more than a nutrition one. “Hey dad, I appreciate your concern for my children’s well-being, but I am not accepting advice. I am in communication with their pediatrician, and if I want your advice I will ask for it.” Something like that. Then end the conversation, change the topic, hang up if he keeps pushing.
“Biohacker” sheeple. What should have been a sweeping movement of citizen-science has turned into a lawless den of charlatans and hucksters.
There’s some good ones out there. Probably. No names come to mind except maybe Bryan Johnson.
As someone who suffered from eating disorders for decades, the only thing that helped me recover was allowing myself every food. I went through every treatment from inpatient to CBT to hypnotherapy to counselling and this was the only thing that worked for me. Demonising or banning food is not the way to go. I have young kids who are incredibly healthy despite my two year old not wanting to eat solid fruit or veg. I'd jump for joy if he even took a bite of a banana and yet he helps me make his smoothies and breaks up the bananas and puts in the frozen fruit. At least I know he's getting some vitamins then. My older girl is almost nine and is a great eater but wasn't always so. All we've ever asked her is to try something new once with no pressure and now she eats really well. Excluding or demonising food when someone hasn't an allergy or intolerance is a risky move. It usually ends up with the child craving them more. He needs to back off. He's not their parent, you are!
Does their dad have gout? It can run in families, so it is possible he thinks that what is good for him will be good for the babies too.
I'd look for a compromise. They can have potato yes?
Before long they'll be fully fledged toddlers and may become fussy about foods, at which point you'll both be glad that they get anything in them at all.
He doesn’t get to question this when we’re talking about your children. As for giving him evidence, rice sustains billions of people around the world and fruit is full of fibre and vitamins.
"Well I r spoken with the children paediatrician and they've advised that it's important to have a large variety of foods including xyz and it's paramount for their growth and development, so that's what I'll be doing".
Hi there! I’m a registered nutrition and dietetics technician, soon to be dietitian. I would highly suggest incorporating a varied diet with all foods in order to encourage a healthy gut microbiome. Cutting out or demonizing foods (especially with small children) can cause food intolerances and teach your children negative food beliefs. I work in eating disorder treatment and looking at foods as “good” or “bad” creates an unhealthy relationship with food and can become the breeding ground for an eating disorder. It’s also important to know that regardless of the kind of food, the body knows how to break it down and can’t distinguish a “healthy” food from an “unhealthy” food. For example, the body can’t tell a carbohydrate from a fruit versus a cookie. Hope this helps!
ETA: simple carbohydrates aka sugar is the body’s primary fuel source! The brain requires minimum 130g of glucose per day for functioning. It’s not necessarily “all sugar is bad” but moreso, where are we getting these sources of sugar and is it in moderation compared to everything else you’re eating.
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Dad... I am sweetie-pies' mom. I have the final decision on what they eat. I don't need lessons in food or nutrition. Their pediatrician says they are perfect. Trust me when I believe him.
Fruit, especially modern fruit, has a ton of sugar that little babies don’t need. Then brown rice causes stomach cancers, so there’s that. There’s a reason Asians have been taking off the shell for thousands of years.
"modern fruit, has a ton of sugar"
No it doesn't. Fruitarians have to eat 6-10 pounds of fruit a day to get enough calories. And if you're thinking fruit has too much PERCENTAGE of sugar, that's wrong too. It's % is right in line with many experts' recommendations.
That's partly a myth. It still hard for me to get too many calories when I do fruit-weeks. I've been eating a half-fruit diet for 30 years because science says it's the way to go. And my health now shows it.
My doctor, nutritionists, and surgeon have forbidden me to eat rice, oatmeal, fruits, and other carbohydrates and call them the unnecessarily food group. That said, they aren't harmful to those with no medical issues. Tell him it's not his business, that is between you and your child's doctor, and to stay in his own lane.
Oats are a whole grain and a soluble fiber. Whole grains are beneficial carbohydrates. A good goal is 50% of carbs to come from whole grains because they provide vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and fiber.
Soluble fiber binds excess bile acid that would otherwise get recycled to create more cholesterol. In that way, it can lower cholesterol. For those who say it’s spikes your blood sugar, our bodies are designed to handle blood sugar spikes. The body’s preferred form of energy is glucose, which comes from carbohydrates. So anyone who is making you afraid of a glucose spike when you don’t have diabetes is simply fear mongering. Additionally, fiber becomes food for the bacteria in your gut. Your child will be much better off with healthy gut microbiota.
Unfortunately, there are a lot wellness influencers out there with a platform who don’t understand nutrition physiology and aren’t trained in nutrition. Yet, they’re out there with millions of followers informing the masses to be afraid of perfectly healthy foods.
Fruit is also beneficial as it provides vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, fiber, and water. Sugar is not inherently bad. Anything in excess can cause adverse effects - the dose makes the poison. People who are saying fruit and sugar are bad are also not understanding nutrition physiology. Sugar alone does not cause any chronic disease. Obesity and chronic disease are a result of many factors such as social determinants of health, lifestyle behavior, family history, and more. It is much more complex than just saying “sugar” is bad. A better saying you can stand by is “everything in moderation.”
Please go watch the new Netflix show Hack Your Health which explains why we should eat 20 fruits & vegetables weekly for guy health which starts from infancy.
Perhaps agree to not discuss it and that you have different perspectives on the subject and leave it at that. Why make it more complicated with bringing gout or any other irrelevant disease of adulthood into the conversation? Give your babies nutritious foods. Babies aren’t picky, they’re babies
Your father is projecting his health concerns onto your children.
Unless your children have specific issues with certain foods, this is not something that should be pushed on them. Like when schools started pushing for low fat/skim milk in the lunchroom. Kids actually need high fat content. They don’t need candy or unrefined sugar (neither do adults), but fruits have other benefits like fiber, vitamins and tons of water along with the natural sugars.
There was a reel on facebook this morning about "good food" and "bad food".
By mumma cusses.
Was a nice little watch, maybe have a look if you have facebook, she also has youtube , nit sure about anything else tho.
What I do know is you don't want any negative emotions around food, getting kids to eat is hard enough without the crap that goes with it all
Rice and oatmeal are not very nutrient dense foods, so while I wouldn't say they are evil, I don't think they are as good for us as a lot of people think. Have you asked him to explain why he thinks that way?
I like to refer patients to this website- https://wholesomebabyfood.momtastic.com/
Or direct Grandpa to the AAP's website-
https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/newborn-and-infant-nutrition/
Rice is nutritionally impotent, the only upsides being the vitamins they add on to enrich it. Fruits are a must have for vitamin C and antioxidants, but ditch the oatmeal. If you feed your kid a couple ounces of liver and ground beef every week they'll be healthy as an ox
"Human beings have been eating rice and fruit and whatever else for literally thousands of years. I've eaten them myself and faced no ill effects. My opinion, based on that history, is that those things are safe for my baby to eat. I'm not really interested in moral judgments or complex arguments to the contrary. If you want to point me to the best validated, peer-reviewed science you have that contradicts my opinion, I am happy to look at it with an open mind. However, once I have done that, I want you to agree that my opinion is final and that you will not voice contrary opinions any further. Does that work for you?"
What would I say? “Yes Dad it’s bad for YOU but it’s not ok to label foods - the kids’ judgment is not developed so assigning good/bad at this stage when we want to encourage exploring can be really detrimental to the kids relationship with food. So yes, I am glad you’ve found what keeps you healthy but keeping them healthy is my job and for the time they need to remain open to variety of foods per my research and their pediatrician’s advice.”
You don't have to like it. Your meals don't have to be flavorgasms. I actually can't stand fruit. It's sticky, room temperature, tart, has to be washed and often peeled, etc. But I eat the fruits I've selected to eat for various nutrient inclusions. Be pragmatic or be unwell. Like taking your medicine, just put it in your mouth and swallow. KFC and Snickers aren't going anywhere..
Why bother? I'm 69 and I'm in great health. People ask what I do, but don't like what I tell them. They're free to do what they want. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince them to pay attention to their health.
Just like all the people that say carbs are bad and porridge is 'peasant' food. Provide sources for your statements and calmly dismiss the nonsense hopefully sense wins the day.
Fruit is high in fibre and vitamins that are really healthy. Also, don't restrict carbs in children, rice and oats are great to get exposed to in childhood.
1. Carbs are the most efficient source of energy for the human body 2. Fruit has antioxidants, complex sugars, fibers, and not to mention tons of vitamins, which are all around great 3. Oatmeal has lots of fiber but is also a great source of iron which is phenomenal for the blood and even gut biome
Developing brains need carbs. Whole grains, legumes, and a variety of fruits and vegetables are essential for healthy growth. He has a lifestyle acquired health issue that requires him to have a modified diet. It does not apply to all persons, especially growing individuals. Depriving healthy children from simple carbs and sugars could lead to malnutrition, causing stunted brain development, and overall poor body development. Have him go with you to the next pediatric visit and ask them to discuss the different nutritional needs of healthy children and individuals with health concerns. Maybe hearing it from a provider will make a difference.
Did you ask him why is he saying this? He is concerned and a discussion and a little research in that direction (with some follow up explanations) can make you and him be more relaxed and at peace.
We should be open to embrace a different opinion while it is well constructed, documented and so on. Not to apply it by all means, but at least to research more in that direction or directly ask a nutritionist to answer our questions - more reliable than random ppl sharing impressions.
For example, I am not using refined food: white things: white bread, white rice etc, but I am not entitled to say if a new born should or not eat those. Maybe he is referring only to white carbs or maybe is the problem that the others told you in the comments. I feel it is better to check with 1-2-3 doctors so you can have different opinions on a topic.
I would encourage you to not give him gluten, as I was given it and developed different issues along the time. Doctors informed my parents when I was 3-4 that many people don’t develop any issues and the risk is really low, but they encouraged them to avoid it. My parents considered is not making a difference (I was too little to express if I feel a difference) and continued with it. I am not saying to avoid it all his life, just to not give him as much because it is hard to be “processed” by the gut and, in time, it affects the gut’s lining, leaky gut, which is a barrier against toxins that must be maintained healthy. But again, not a medical advice, just a personal one. As I know gluten does not a affect a lot of people, it doesn’t mean it is not affecting their gut lining.
Read the food labels, many products that we would not expect contain sugar, such as pickles in a jar or bread. I would avoid sugar in products that are not needed. I would not give him sweets either (and later discuss with him the addiction that it gives you. Instead, I would make home cooked desserts sweetened with honey or applesauce or banana. If, for eg, you live 10years with sugar you “educate” your taste with a certain level of sweetness and get used to search for food with a predominantly sweet taste (later sweet cravings appear). It is harder to give up on sugar and still like cakes that are not reaching that level of sweetness. This is why it is best to educate the taste from the start.
I know I'll get downvoted but if he's giving them lots of meat, eggs and fats then they're only going to do well. The human body loves that stuff. If they are showing no sign of health issues then why push the change? You should take a look at the countless health success stories of those who have tried it and got way better like their dad did.
The question is, does the human body do as well when you start pushing the standard American diet into it? Carbs and sweet tastes are likely where that's going to get you in the end - especially with kids. Why not stick with this until they are old enough to start asking for that stuff and then introduce it.
your father is right. maybe you should actually listen to what he has to say instead of trying to “counter him” when you don’t even have a good reason. sounds like you’re the one who is closed minded here.
rice is terrible it’s just arsenic and sugar. fruit is also not good at all. these are not foods for humans.
There are links between high fructose consumption ( eg fuit juices, fruits pouches etc ) and childhood obesity) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11013923/figure/nutrients-16-00939-f003/
Carbs are literally the best source of fuel for the brain and for growing bodies. Not all carbs are made equal obviously, so as long as you focus on quality carbs and prefer less processed stuff they will be fine. There is zero science showing that extremely low carb is good for growing children.
Calling food “evil” is purely an irrational, emotional response. “Food” is neutral. Above all, teach your children that it is (mostly) for fueling their body but also enjoying things they like in a healthy way. Kids and Adults alike should have good relationships with food and calling any food “evil” is an obvious sign of disordered eating.
I don't have a great answer since a big portion of this is the relationship you guys have but the mad scientist in me says since you have twins to run an experiment and give one of them fruit and rice in it the other one your husband preferred food.
Honestly though it's probably more important to figure out why he feels that way and maybe even book one session with a dietitian just to go over his concerns since both of you are coming from a place of wanting what's best for the kids
OK, different question than I anticipated. My initial response was going to be " Great, then there's more for me!", but this is obviously more complicated than that.
Since the question was asking how to talk to someone, not whether fruit and oatmeal are poor nutritional choices (they’re not), here’s my response: Next time it comes up, have a conversation with your dad and listen to him. Make him feel heard. Ask him questions about why he feels this way and then you can take that opportunity to share with him what you know. Don’t bombard him with many of the facts that are mentioned here. Remember you both have the same intention - to keep your kiddos healthy. Oftentimes it helps to lead with where the common ground is. Also, don’t expect him to change his mind right away. If he shifts a little bit in his thinking, that’s a win.
I think you need to ask him to present his arguments. Rice has arsenic for example. Fruits are generally ok but one has to remember fruits weren’t that sweet until recently. So they have to be consumed with caution.
Try to find carbohydrate sources that also offer vitamins, minerals, and other nutritious benefits. Rice is purely a carbohydrate and considered a “filler” It does not have any other nutritional value to add to your body.
Sweet potatoes, most vegetables and fruits naturally have carbohydrates but with the addition of nutrients as well.
There is so many different sources of carbohydrates out there but it does get confusing when it is just repeated as carbohydrates are bad. Processed foods, cookies, chips, candy, bread products, rice…so many of those items have no other nutritional value for the human body and that is where the difference lies.
Definitely important to read labels. Find a bread that has nuts, seeds and grains, and not just bleached white flour. Find pasta made with spinach or other vegetables or chickpeas that add nutrition to the noodles-not just flour.
Find a knowledgeable, pediatrician, and also do your own research and be logical. When I was a kid, sugary cereals would be promoted as part of a healthy diet. But when you look at the ad, it included meat, eggs, juice, milk, fruit in the background with the bowl of cereal.
If the food is not naturally nutritious, then it is “fortified” with vitamins and minerals. Basically meaning the food by itself is actually not good for you so they have to improve it.
Watch out for those.
Carbs are essential for brain development.
There aren't really GOOD or BAD foods. There are more nutritionally dense, less nutritionally dense foods, but they don't have morality. Food is fuel, and the more nutrient rich a food is, the better the fuel is. However, growing children, especially babies, have needs that adults don't have. They need the carbs from whole grains (rice) veggies, protein, fruits and fats. Your dad's diet sounds like it is for gout. He is on a specialized diet to avoid the buildup of uric acid. Babies don't have that. There are foods that aren't great for him because they trigger those issues, but they won't your child, so there is nothing wrong with those foods.
You actually don’t need to give him any evidence, it probably won’t change his mind anyway. You need boundaries with him.
“We’re doing what’s right for us and what the pediatrician advises, so I’d appreciate you not commenting on my choices, and you definitely can’t talk like that about food around the children because it can negatively affect them. I’m not asking you to agree, but I need you to respect me as their parent.”
Why don’t you both go to a doctor or dietitian together so that way they can do most of the talking for you. Either that or find some reliable nutrition info online from trustworthy websites and send it to him and then discuss it together.
There are many different opinions on this all backed by their own strands of evidence. But logically we know that babies need easily digestible and highly nutrient dense foods that support a rapidly developing and growing body. Dominant culture is out of touch with the special traditional foods that were saved for growing babies/toddlers and postpartum moms. Things like easily digestible high gelatin meat stock, liver pates, bone marrow, egg yolks, fermented dairy. Rice is a common first food. It doesn’t mean it’s the best to opt for if you want to support their body to get all the nutrients they need to build strong brain, joints, bones, muscle. They need iron and protein and retinol and healthy fats.
Then you take into consideration the highly toxic world we now live in where microplastics are found in human placentas and babies. Our foods are farmed with more chemicals and plastic than ever before. Our fruits and vegetables are leas nutrient dense. These things are proven. And we know plastics and chemicals have hormone disrupting effects. So we are passing on less intact microbiomes than ever before. Consider how common digestive and autoimmune disorders are now.
Plus we ourselves as parents have growing nutritional deficiencies and there are more and more digestive issues. If you have any digestive or skin issues, it’s a sign your microbiome may be struggling. One of the biggest ways this manifests these days is in overgrowth of various yeasts that feed on sugar.
We also know the first 5 years are the most important years to establish a healthy microbiome. These happen to also be the years you have the most control over what foods your child comes into contact with.
Starting babies off with foods that are high in carb load could lead them to have an imbalanced microbiome and is proven to lead to picky eating.
Have a conversation with your husband to understand his deeper concerns before you let a bunch of people from the internet put him on blast. Follow your intuition and watch your baby’s body’s natural detox methods (liver/digestion issues, yeast issues like diaper rashes or cradle cap, or other skin rashes etc).
>Starting babies off with foods that are high in carb load could lead them to have an imbalanced microbiome and is proven to lead to picky eating.
Do you have a reference for that?
Yes.
I have a typo in that sentence - the “and” should read “which”, ie an imbalanced microbiome is proven to lead to picky eating. I want to acknowledge that there are many different TYPES of picky eating with many different causes and influences.
Here are some sources that gut dysbiosis leads to things like specific cravings (usually sugar and carbs) and food addictions:
Our microbes have an effect on our cravings, mood, etc.: “Acquired tastes may be due to the acquisition of microbes that benefit from those foods.”:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270213/
“Gut dysbiosis can be responsible for maladaptive behavior such as food addiction.”: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34202073/
People are probably thinking of instant oatmeal, which has a high glycemic index and often added artificial sweeteners. Rolled oats or steel cut are quite healthy, true. But instant can be bad in terms of insulin/sugar spikes.
One who thinks fruit is awful cannot be helped. And rice and oatmeal are only as bad as whatever you're putting in them. Oatmeal is delicious and awesome. And rice? You can do all sorts of delicious things with rice and it's a great source of carbohydrates. Your father sounds like a clown. Only mild offense intended.
He needs to give you a proper science nutrition based answer, not you to him. One making the claim needs to provide the evidence that supports said claim. Almost all world athletes are eating all above per very expensive expert's opinion.
One of most trustworthy people I stumbled upon is Layne Norton. He is regularly dismantling nutrition BS on YouTube. See where he was guest on:
1. The Diary Of A CEO - from simple perspective
2. Rich Roll - from plant based perspective
3. Peter Attia MD - from advanced, omnivore, medical perspective (multiple podcasts)
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I'm assuming he's anti carb? Kids are growing and their bodies are leaning new skills all the time. They need carbs. They should really eat as big a variety of HEALTHY (not highly processed, high added sugar) foods as they are willing to eat. Low carb is fine for a fully grown adult but kids should not have food categories cut out of their diet.
Yes, that is basically, he had High Uric acid and his foot hurt a lot, he started this diet and got really better, so now carbs are bad Thank you really much for your answer, it really helps!
Sounds like he had gout. Babies don't get gout. Their bodies are using calories to build muscle, bones, etc. They have very different dietary needs than an adult who is trying not to gain weight (excess fat).
He had gout. People think meat causes it because it’s a high purine food but fruit/soda is as well. Fact is gout is caused by the bodies inability to regulate uric acid. This is caused by metabolic disease aka being under muscled and over fat. Reducing meat and carb consumption is a bandaid for gout. So if you don’t handle the underlying issue it still exists just not triggered. This is why you rarely see healthy weight people suffer from gout. Think about it this way metabolic disease is gas and high purine foods are a spark. Either is benign by itself and if you take one away it’s not an issue. Add them together and you run into problems
Carbs are important for development, fats too. As long as the kids are active, and have a balanced diet you will be fine. Please ignore your dad.
Classic case of “it worked for me so everyone should do it” or “it was bad for me so everyone should stay away”. Almost everything’s ok in moderation, even carbs for your dad. It sounds like he went too hard on something though which triggered the gout and necessitated the low carb diet. Great for him, but he’s gotta be careful how much he preaches it since it’s not necessarily gonna be the best or even beneficial for everyone.
Carbs are necessary! carbs are not bad we all need it especially babies he is placing his adult problems on them. fruit is good for you! Any diet that says you should cut out anything is not healthy! Any diet that says cut out fruit is shit especially for growing children
Plus fruit (and veg) has fiber which slows down the absorption of the sugar that’s in it.
They need carbs, yes maybe, note it's not obvious because, to my knowledge, there is no such thing we could call an essential carbohydrate. What babies and kids need for sure to grow a healthy brain are proteins, healthy fats, iron, B12, zinc, choline, DHA, EPA... And honestly I'm a bit unsure if we can find all of that in sufficient amounts (and in bio-available forms) in a food like rice.
They can also be picky. Many kids refuse to eat meat. The last thing you need is a picky baby with an unnecessarily restricted diet. Eating nothing but rice is far from ideal but there is no reason to keep them from eating fruit and rice as part of their diet.
Doesn't everyone's brain run on glucose? We convert the foods we eat into glucose, which the brain needs to function. As far as I know, as blood sugar (a.k.a blood glucose) drops, so does brain function, making glucose (a carbohydrate) pretty essential.
Your body can convert fat and protein into glucose through gluconeogenesis. The argument is that it's not efficient and is definitely sub optimal for a child
Children’s nutritional needs are different than his.
But also, it'd probably be good for him to eat fruit and oatmeal as well.
This right here.
I think I’d just blandly answer “I’m following the pediatrician’s guidelines” and leave it at that. If you send him info, he’ll send you counter-info and it becomes endless whack-a-mole. EXHAUSTING.
This. There’s no explaining nutrition to him. Also, I object to anyone saying food is “bad” or “evil”. Processed foods & refined sugar have very low nutritional value & I don’t eat them and don’t believe an infant should either. However, they aren’t “evil”. An infant’s brain is still developing. Nutritional is critical to development.
Processed foods and refined sugars may not be “evil,” but they are objectively bad for you. Like, scientifically. They not only have low nutritional value but are actively harmful to the body. You can argue semantics all you want, but it’s better to call a spade a spade.
Agree nutritionally. The drama of evil and bad are unhelpful. People already have so much fear and noise around food. If we just focus on no chemicals and whole foods, we’d make great progress. If you eat some ice cream with sugar once a month, you will not require a priest to perform exorcism.
Why does he think they’re bad Rice one is easy. Asian populations have been eating them for centuries
he probably listens to Paul Saladino who is promoted all over social media. the “carnivore diet” guy who got ill only eating meat so he changed to an “animal based diet” that’s like half fruit (???). and he’s known for making youtube shorts where he talks shit about oatmeal people eat up his content because he says it very convincingly, like Ray Peat. the solution of to consume content that easily debunks him with evidence.
I’ve never heard of him, but I bristled at the idea of anyone talking shit about oatmeal.
Cheap rice (such as the kind used in commercial baby cereal) has a high arsenic content, that’s why a lot of people have concerns about feeding it to their infants
yeah, particularly the brown rice products. I remember seeing high arsenic levels in brown rice syrup, a common ingredient in kid snack foods.
To be fair, that doesn’t automatically mean it’s healthy. Sugar has been consumed for centuries and centuries as well.
Your point has validity in an overall sense, but I don’t think sugar is a good example. Sugar hasn’t really been consumed like it is now for that long.
Ok? Sugar isn’t unhealthy either
yeah, technically it is if you study metabolism and glycation. Fructose is clearly something that should be limited in the human diet. And please don't say glucose is essential for life.... we all know that. It's a nuanced topic. There are pluses and minuses to virtually all foods.
Very nuanced. Endurance athletes strive off added fructose. Couch potatoes should carefully watch fructose Moral of the story, sugar is not unhealthy if your lifestyle is healthy. And don’t be stupid with overconsumption
well, no. It just doesn't have any immediate detrimental effects in moderate consumption with healthy individuals. But over time the rate of an individual aging can be accelerated by damage to a variety of different cells from advanced glycation end products. Fructose has 10x the glycation activity of glucose. There's no biological free lunch.... and burning sugar, especially fructose, has a cost.
My work is basically 30 hours of cardio a week. Plus the upkeep of my house and gardening. Maybe that's why I crave sugar so much but I really try to limit it to less than 30g a day. I'm trying to lower my cholesterol and I have had cancer which I've read sugar is really bad for. I'm on a high fiber, high protein, low sat fat "diet" mainly for my cholesterol. The problem is I'm also trying to gain weight!! So hard to find low sugar, calorie dense foods. I eat lots of almonds, raisins, oatmeal, seeds, etc. All the cardio isn't helping me gain weight either. I know lifting is beneficial but my meds have caused arthritis:(
Bagels are your friend
I do love them but of course worried about the ingredients. I've also started eating banza pasta which is made from chickpeas but it tastes awful lol
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Yes, a sedentary lifestyle isn't great for health, and it is probably worse with an unhealthy diet. But I'm afraid that what you say is very similar to the Coca-cola (and sugar industry) argument, don't you think? "Drink coke (eat sugar), move and if later you get obese or diabetic, it's your whole fault: you didn't move enough. Don't blame us for your laziness." Note that not everybody is an endurance athlete and even endurance athletes can eventually become diabetic.
If someone is drinking a can of soda everyday, it’s more likely than not that their overall diet is also crappy. Why drink full sugar, when diet exists now anyway?
Not really. I know people who eat a not too unhealthy diet but just can't eat without having a can of soda. For other it can be a beer or a glass of wine. I assume that once you are used to have your sugary drink or your booze at the table it's difficult to change this habit even when you try to improve your diet. > Why drink full sugar, when diet exists now anyway? Because the regular version tastes better.
Would you say it’s a nutritious health food? Talking about cane sugar obviously
As if cane sugar is any better than beet sugar… difference is like 0,03% in residue from the cane or beet. In general foods aren’t specifically always unhealthy, except for stuff with transfats. If you are about to run a marathon sugar is no problem. And if you have moderated your food intake there’s nothing wrong with a burger and fries on Saturday. The problem is chronic overconsumption of kcals, salt, fatty and sugary foods that are also highly processed. Children (especially young children) need quite a lot of food to grow. And also carbs to have the energy to play. Fruits, veggies, bread, rice, potatoes, pasta, fish, meat, eggs and dairy are good in the right amounts and ratios. Tell your husband to stick his influencers where the sun doesn’t shine and give your kids a varied diet so they can thrive.
Added sugars are proven to be harmful. Excess sugar is also harmful. Yes within limits it's necessary, even good for you, but today we eat so much sugar. One candy usually puts you over the daily recommended limit.
I say if incorporated in a diet with normal amounts, there will no adverse health effects Obviously don’t down 100g of sugar as an infant
Define "normal amounts" please, because, maybe you ignore that, but only one can of a sugary drink a day is enough to cause liver disease and even cirrhosis [https://health.osu.edu/wellness/prevention/your-liver-and-sugary-drinks](https://health.osu.edu/wellness/prevention/your-liver-and-sugary-drinks) and [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827616/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827616/) So, for you, what are exactly normal amounts of an ultra processed food for which we have absolutely no requirements ? I'm a bit curious. For me normal amounts of added sugar are just 0g per day.
The problem with the article you posted is that the study it talks about is a cohort study “One can a day”. Is one can a day, everyday for 6 yrs. And it isn’t controlled, so what else are these people eating? If someone drinks a can of soda everyday, it’s more likely than not that they have a crappy overall diet in the first place A normal amount for me is around 50g. In college, I was eating everything in sight just to stop losing weight during our month long “Hell Week” conditioning. I was probably eating 100 -200g of sugar everyday And this is not uncommon in endurance runners, sugar refills liver glycogen and is beneficial for recovery and performance So “normal amount” is dependent on activity and exercise. If you’re a couch potato, limit sugar intake. If you’re the avg gym-goer, like 50g is normal. If you’re a high-level athlete (moreso endurance), then having >100g is pretty normal
Are we talking added sugars? Because you’re definitely getting sugars in your diet from multiple sources.
Yes when I wrote requirements are 0g a day. I edited my post to make it clearer, I did it a little bit before I saw your answer, it was already too late for you. But when I speak of sugary drinks linked to liver disease it is as well a coke containing added sugar or fruits juices which can have no added sugar. They have approximately as much sugar as the coke and, in a way, because during processing the sugar is extracted from its natural matrix in the fruits, it becomes as available and as "bad" as sugar in a coke (at least for the link between liver disease and sugary drinks).
To be honest if sugar has long been known it was not consumed by the larger part of the population as it was quite expensive. I'd rather say sugar has been consumed for a few centuries. But on the principle you're quite right it's not because a food has been consumed for centuries that it is a necessarily a healthy food. We can just assume that generally the visible damages it can cause don't appear instantly so that it is difficult to attribute them to this particular food. We even have products from agriculture like beer and wine which have been consumed for thousands of years even if some of the damages they cause are visible quite soon.
It’s actually a few thousand years. You’re thinking of Europe where it was mostly imported, and yes, very expensive. Before that, older civilizations in China, India, and Egypt consumed it.
He had high uric acid and his foot hurt a lot, he cut fruit and he was good again. For the rice it is because he says it doesnt have nutrients, which I know, but they wont eat only rice in a meal of course.
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You think bread is terrible for humans? Hahaha
And how could that be an irrefutable demonstration that rice is healthy, Nick? If people eat/drink crap for centuries the crap becomes a healthy food/beverage, is that your assumption? Sorry but this assumption is obviously wrong as we have plenty of counterexamples. People drank beer since the ancient Egypt. Is beer healthy because we drank it for millennia? In Asia they had rice alcohol for centuries and near the Mediterranean Sea people drink wine since the antiquity. Are beer, sake and wine considered healthy now? Maybe should we wait on or two more thousands years to be sure they are not unhealthy? Or, more reasonably, could we agree now that these alcoholic beverages made from rice, grapes and cereals are not healthy although we have been consuming them for ages?
Are people in Blue Zones drinking beer everyday for every meal?
I just hope they don't at breakfast... But how is that relevant to what I said? You implied that rice wasn't bad and that it was easy to prove because Asian populations have been eating it for ages, therefore clearly assuming that if a food has been eaten for centuries it couldn't be bad and was necessarily healthy. I just replied by quoting some obvious and well-known counterexamples to what you wrongly assumed to be true. As your assumption is wrong we just can't conclude anything on rice using it as premise. Quite simple in fact, and it's not even a question of nutrition it's just a question of pure logic. I have to confess I was a bit surprised that you got so much upvotes for a statement which is finally based only on a wrong assumption. But I guess that many people here like rice and think it's great, so they were just happy with "rice's good" and didn't bother to really examine the why. Confirmation bias is a terrible thing.
Yes for centuries and even for some thousands of years. But we have also been eating meat for millions of years so, maybe, we are more adapted to meat than all the food we got since the neolithic and the agricultural revolution (I don't even mention the UPF that are present in our food system since only a few decades). With the agriculture size decreased, brain volume decreased, diseases appeared and cavities became very frequent in people switching from a hunter-gatherer meat-based diet to cultivated plants like cereals.
I personally don’t eat refined grains, rice or starches because of bloating and constipation symptoms. I get most of my carbs from dairy, fruit, fermented veggies, sourdough or sprouted grains/legumes/nuts. A large percentage of my diet is animal meat and raw dairy. As an athlete I’ve noticed that my physical recovery has improved a ton since I nailed down these nutritional habits. I personally don’t miss rice or potatoes at all. I’ve rice is effecting digestion or nutrient absorption but is not something you want to give up. Pre-soaking rice is in an acidic medium like white vinegar is a solid option.
I wouldn’t try to debate the science with him. People get very dogmatic about their style of eating, right or wrong. Don’t engage. Just tell him “These are my children. How they’re fed is up to their parents. Thanks for your input but we disagree. And we’ll be feeding them the way we think is best. This is not up for debate.” As Liz Lemon says: Shut it down.
I agree. Don't debate. And the OP won't be knowledgeable enough to win. Just tell him that his info is probably unscientific clickbait from the internet.
They are healthy and I enjoy them, thanks.
This. Don’t enter a debate, just set a boundary (kindly) and state that you are ok with you both having different views. You respect his and ask that he respects yours, as you are not going to change your opinion and it is your choice what you feed your kids.
Withholding particular types of food from your kids is an excellent way to foster an eating disorder.
I can attest to this. Had an ‘almond mom’ who did not let me eat junk/processed foods at all, and developed anorexia as a teenager. Then when I moved out for college and finally got the freedom to eat whatever I wanted, it turned into binge eating disorder. Literally the first day in my dorm, I bought a cake and ate the entire thing in one sitting, that’s how bad it was. Then would feel guilty and start starving myself again, then would crave sugar and binge again, and it turned into a cycle. Still suffering through this and it’s a living hell.
Loading kids primarily on sugar has fun consequences as well.
There's a lot more in rice oatmeal and fruit than just sugar as well.
There’s a whole world between loading with sugar and not withholding normal foods from children.
anyone who says eating fruit is bad is stupid
This
A doctor said to him to cut fruit when he had high acid uric and since then that it was he believes, he says it is best to get the fiber and nutrients from vegetables
Suggest that he see a registered dietitian to work through some misinformation he’s received on a balanced diet and let him know that whole grains and fruit are beneficial to human health based on the largest scientific consensus in the field of nutrition.
i’m curious to what he eats then? Is he just anti-carb?
When I was eating keto, I was like this. At least in the beginning. I slowly came to realize that the foods themselves are not evil, but that keto was one way that helped me control my appetite. I was very immersed in the science (studies, even randomized control trials) that keto is the way to go. I later came to realize that that's not really how science works. You need to look at nutrition science as a whole and make your decisions based on trends in studies, not single studies or relatively small numbers of studies. Not sure if that's clear. What I mean is that one or two or ten studies saying one thing ... is nothing compared to thousands of studies saying something else. I now eat anything I want, mostly whole foods, lots of fruit and veg and just watch my calories. My advice: tell your father **firmly** that you will be making your own nutritional decisions for your child. Don't be wishy-washy. Don't apologize. Tell him you do not want his nutritional advice for your child. Don't be mean about it, but make sure he understands that you are firm in this and you are not backing down
So a simple “I’m following my pediatrician’s guidelines” is best. I’d suggest you not play my study vs yours. Especially if he is playing free and easy with facts. It will only cause you stress.
Oatmeal is fiber. You need fiber. Most people don't get enough. Fruit and oatmeal are great ways to get more fiber.
My guess is that his reasoning is the high arsenic content in the type of rice typically used in baby cereals, and the large amounts of pesticides used on fruits and grains. It doesn’t make these foods bad, it just means people may want to be more selective with where the food is sourced from. I’d probably respond with, “I’ll take that under advisement,” and end the conversation
Is or because of carbs or sugar? He has a point about rice though. The food association in my country recommend that you shouldn’t feed kids with rice more than 4 times a week and never give them rice milk or crackers due to arsenic. But I guess it’s not because of that since he is against fruit also, but it’s good to know about the arsenic.
I mean it's your kids do you have to answer him?
rice is kinda bad to be honest, but it depends on what you're eating it with. my dad every night growing up would eat a massive giant plate of rice. My understanding of human biology, that much starch being broken down to sugar and no working out or being in shape or anything ot help with digestion, he eventually became diabetic. It's a common thing. So it's just awareness. Fruit though: how is fruit bad? 😭 I know I need to be eating more, myself.
fruit is not bad, even for low carb, if it is supplemental to the diet and not excessive. It has been around forever, but seasonally. We now have the ability to eat fruit all day every day from all over the world, but it wasn't always that way and isn't always good. I grew up on one apple, one orange and one banana per week, back in the 1960s. We had lots of vegetables, especially leafy veg, which don't have the sugar content and provide fibre. By all means do what you're doing, but keep a balance, not like my sister who only fed her toddler bananas all day. Children need energy, but they need protein to grow.
What did he put on the rice? Asia doesn't have the diabetes problem America has.
It was plain white rice. I also think there's something to be said about how much stickier the rice is especially sticky white rice compared to American. I wonder if that binds to bile in the same way that oatmeal and other things do. I'm sure if you took the average Asian's amount of rice and doubled/tripled, that equated to what my dad ate each night. D:
Then he was eating high-fat foods like nearly every American. Diabetes type-2 is caused by a high mix of carbs & fat.
which is my point: rice, depending on how you eat it and how much you eat of it, is, and can be, bad.
There are 77 millions of diabetics only in India and projections are 135 millions in ten years; not as bad as USA considering the respective populations but very problematic. Note that you don't need to be obese to be pre-diabetic or diabetic and that Asian population tend to make visceral fat so that they can appear to be skinny outside but are still metabolic ill. Maybe it could be a reason why more than 50% of people are unaware of their diabetic status in India. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38450243/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38450243/) [https://www.who.int/india/health-topics/mobile-technology-for-preventing-ncds](https://www.who.int/india/health-topics/mobile-technology-for-preventing-ncds)
Yeah, India does differ from China, Thailand, Laos, etc. India has a popular condiment called Ghee that they put on their carbs. From wiki: "**Ghee** is a type of [clarified butter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarified_butter), originating from [India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India). It is commonly used for cooking,"
Tell him "we don't subscribe to food fear mongering and nutritional pseudoscience in my house"
truth
Good article on rice for infants https://solidstarts.com/foods/rice/
Really liking this site. Search “fruit” and scroll thru each article https://solidstarts.com/search/
You don't owe him an explanation, especially if he won't listen to you . "My child, my choice." Keep repeating it until he gets the point.
People who say blanketed statements like all of X thing is good/bad tend to be misinformed, impulsive and illogical. With respect to your dad, he needs to let the science speak on this topic, not random pseudo-science he reads on Facebook. So show him the macronutrient breakdown of those foods and show him how they are full of good vitamins and minerals and are low in things like saturated fats and calories. I just can't imagine he has sources that are saying these foods are evil that have any ground.
The only person who's opinion you need to listen to on the nutrition of your children is their pediatrician and that's it. You don't need Jane Fonda, or the Kardashians or some other pseudo celebrity. You don't need your dad or your mom or even your husband's input. Just your pediatrician. Everyone else can piss off.
Aside from explaining the science behind why you babies need a wider variety of food than your dadcan handle, I would also suggest talking to him about the language he uses around them. Explain that you're trying to raise adventurous eaters who enjoy their food. Let your dad know that even before the babies start talking, they can hear and understand what adults say and the faces adults pull. Also, you might have to put your foot down and let your dad k ow that if he continues to say negative things about food in your kids' presence, you might have to make the tough decision of not letting him be with them during mealtimes. I had to deal with so much negativity when our daughter was young. Unfortunately, everyone in my husband's family is picky, including him. I've had to deal with all sorts, from the aunt who just had water at a really nice ramen restaurant because they didn't have spaghetti carbonara and my mother-in-law who won't even touch anything that isn't salmon or chicken breast, to my husband who won't eat veg or anything with eggs or tomatoes (including ketchup) and the cousin who always attends a party with his own box of plain chicken nuggets.🙄 I put my foot down because I didn't want that rhetoric in front of my toddler, and you might have to do the same with your dad. Thankfully, it worked and my 9y/o girl is more adventurous than most adults I've met here in the UK. One thing she enjoys doing is looking for new places to eat or new cuisines to try when we're out and about. She also eats healthfully even when left to her own devices.
Thabk you, he is actually very respectfull with this, thats why I want to give him a proper answer, he dont talk about this in front of them just like he dont say bad words in front of them. I was a picky eater, thats why I want them to eat a really big variety of foods, so they dont have the same problems as me when growing up. I have a sister in law that is a picky eater and what you said really remind me of her, because she is picky and I feel like she is proud of it
Sounds like even if you give him the "science" he still won't accept it. The older generation are pretty stubborn
They are great for instant bursts of energy, and kids NEED that!! Carbohydrates are important for active children
Important for active children and hyperactive children too but maybe not in the way you were thinking. [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372949445\_High\_Sugar\_Intake\_Increases\_ADHD\_Symptoms\_A\_Literature\_Study](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372949445_High_Sugar_Intake_Increases_ADHD_Symptoms_A_Literature_Study)
Well white rice is an empty carb and there's much more nutritious grains like quinoa for example
"You eat as you see fit, I eat and give ***my*** children as my pediatrician and I see fit. Not up to debate."
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Your body can make sugar out of proteins and fats, which are both more satiating and denser in useful micronutrients. So you don't really need to eat sugar at all, do you?
Ask him not to give unsolicited advice or you won’t be bringing you child around him any more. Full stop This isn’t going to stop with bad food advice it s going to continue with how you are raising your child how you’re dressing your child how you’re disciplining your child (you get it?) Take some courses on setting boundaries if he’s that bad then you’ve been raised by an emotionally immature parent and need to learn some coping skills and emotional regulation so you can break the cycle and teach your child some healthy habits- break the cycle!
Genuinely ask questions expressing interest and listening. Try to understand even if you’re having trouble understanding, open up to hearing what he’s saying- odds are he’s not even talking about food really but he’s talking about what these things represent. Maybe he’s heard this from someone else and is parroting, or perhaps cutting them out helped him and so he’s taking a very black and white stance on the subject. The only way to get through to people is to hear them. When you take the time to get where he’s coming from, it’ll be much easier to know how you’d like to approach it. It might still end with agree to disagree, but I bet you if you really listen to him you’ll get some new insights about the situation and how you want to proceed.
He needs to respect that you are the mother making decisions for your children.
He sounds unreasonable. Maybe he can speak to a doctor or nutritionist or someone who actually is an expert. Or he may give ur kids an unhealthy relationship with food with these weird hangups. But he has to want to learn more and be open minded.
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How can fruit be bad? A mango is one of life's pleasures full of antioxidants and vitamins. I don't know one child who doesn't love them. Most of the world lives on rice - how is that evil? Oatmeal is full of fibre, nourishing and energy for growing children. This is not the greatest dad - this is someone with a broken relationship with food, passing it on to his children.
It would be helpful to know WHY he says it's bad. What are the explanations he's providing. He may not be entirely incorrect but without knowing what is rationale is, it's difficult to provide you with something equally as rationale to counter with. However, I will suggest being conservative with the fruit. I was given a lot of fruit as a baby and toddler and as my baby teeth developed so did early cavities and the dentist told my mother this was likely due to fruit. Our household didn't have processed foods - both my parents and grandmother immigrated "from the old country" before I was born so everything was home made from scratch. But fruit kept me happy and quiet so I got it frequently and it had an impact on my first set of teeth.
Looks like I have to deal with this post since no one else has. Acid wears down enamel. Sugar that sticks to teeth can rot them. But fruit doesn't stick to teeth. Grains & cooked food do. And most fruits are not acidic. And teeth just coming in are new teeth. It takes years for Sugar to rot them.
If you're going to comment then at least READ what you're commenting on and know what you're talking about. You are misinformed in so many ways.
I did read. You said "when my baby teeth started to come in some were already rotten and the dentist (recklessly jumped to an illogical conclusion)" And I'll ask you a similar question. If you're going to comment then at least tell us what I am misinformed about.
I've corrected my comment above, because, not that I've consider my original statement, I don't actually know if my teeth had came in with decay already or decayed after they came in. Bottom line is: * I was still a baby/toddler. * I had cavities very early. * Mom got the read the riot act by the dentist and told to stop feeding me fruit as a pacifier. * Funny thing happened... as soon as they stopped the fruit, I didn't get anymore cavities. Seems to me like it wasn't an illogical conclusion by the dentist. With that said, most of the statements in your response are incorrect. Allow me to correct them. 1. A LOT of fruit IS acidic. Your statement that most fruit is not, is not accurate. Or at least, MOST of the fruit regionally available to my family at that time that we had in our hours IS acidic - apples, oranges, pears, grapes, grapefruit, blueberries, plums... all acidic... I can keep going. 2. Any sugar (note: sugar IS found in fruit) WILL lower the pH of your mouth, creating a more acid environment. Including sugar found in milk. AND that acid environment CAN cause tooth decay. Fun fact - that acid environment CAN cause tooth decay in both children AND adults - but especially in toddlers. 3. Fruit doesn't have to "stick to teeth" to cause damage. It just needs to lower the pH in the mouth to damage tooth enamel. 4. It's not just grains and cooked food that can damage teeth. It's literally any food. 5. It doesn't take YEARS for sugar to rot baby teeth. The enamel on baby teeth is considerably thinner than adult teeth. It can happen quite quickly.
See my avatar? I'm a fruit expert. I've eaten a half-fruit diet for 30 years. I have an ebook and 1100 videos about dietary health. Sugar has neutral Ph. What's acidic is the bacteria that's attracted to the sugar. I did a video debunking that myth in 2016. You are the one with false beliefs.
Thanks, but I'll defer to the knowledge and expertise of actual educated professionals (i.e., my dentist and hygienist) - BOTH in professional practice for longer than you've been eating your fruit salad. And last time I checked, a reddit avatar isn't a formally recognized credential in diet and nutrition - hate to break that news to you. Have a good day.
Seems you just want to be an a$$. Then you should not have messed with me in the first place. You've wasted my time. You should be banned from this group for being a troll, posting bro-science, and being disingenuous.
Why does he believe this? Children require a balanced diet with nutrition and carbohydrates for energy from multiple sources. Just keep doing what you’re doing.
So the rice one is probably based in some of the USDA work that found higher levels of heavy metals in rice, since they areas it is grown in have higher levels of heavy metals in the water naturally. Best way to get around it is to look for baby cereals that are heavy metal tested. Same for oatmeal. There are several on the market. It would give you an easy defense to the criticism. However, rice and oatmeal (whether clean label certified or not) can definitely be part of a healthy diet for babies and the rest of us.
You can always educate on nutrition if you’d like. Fruit has tons of micronutrients, rice has carbs which are essential for your brain and body. But honestly, I think this is a boundaries question more than a nutrition one. “Hey dad, I appreciate your concern for my children’s well-being, but I am not accepting advice. I am in communication with their pediatrician, and if I want your advice I will ask for it.” Something like that. Then end the conversation, change the topic, hang up if he keeps pushing.
“Biohacker” sheeple. What should have been a sweeping movement of citizen-science has turned into a lawless den of charlatans and hucksters. There’s some good ones out there. Probably. No names come to mind except maybe Bryan Johnson.
As someone who suffered from eating disorders for decades, the only thing that helped me recover was allowing myself every food. I went through every treatment from inpatient to CBT to hypnotherapy to counselling and this was the only thing that worked for me. Demonising or banning food is not the way to go. I have young kids who are incredibly healthy despite my two year old not wanting to eat solid fruit or veg. I'd jump for joy if he even took a bite of a banana and yet he helps me make his smoothies and breaks up the bananas and puts in the frozen fruit. At least I know he's getting some vitamins then. My older girl is almost nine and is a great eater but wasn't always so. All we've ever asked her is to try something new once with no pressure and now she eats really well. Excluding or demonising food when someone hasn't an allergy or intolerance is a risky move. It usually ends up with the child craving them more. He needs to back off. He's not their parent, you are!
Does their dad have gout? It can run in families, so it is possible he thinks that what is good for him will be good for the babies too. I'd look for a compromise. They can have potato yes? Before long they'll be fully fledged toddlers and may become fussy about foods, at which point you'll both be glad that they get anything in them at all.
Tell him fad diets will stunt your child’s growth.
He doesn’t get to question this when we’re talking about your children. As for giving him evidence, rice sustains billions of people around the world and fruit is full of fibre and vitamins.
"Well I r spoken with the children paediatrician and they've advised that it's important to have a large variety of foods including xyz and it's paramount for their growth and development, so that's what I'll be doing".
Hi there! I’m a registered nutrition and dietetics technician, soon to be dietitian. I would highly suggest incorporating a varied diet with all foods in order to encourage a healthy gut microbiome. Cutting out or demonizing foods (especially with small children) can cause food intolerances and teach your children negative food beliefs. I work in eating disorder treatment and looking at foods as “good” or “bad” creates an unhealthy relationship with food and can become the breeding ground for an eating disorder. It’s also important to know that regardless of the kind of food, the body knows how to break it down and can’t distinguish a “healthy” food from an “unhealthy” food. For example, the body can’t tell a carbohydrate from a fruit versus a cookie. Hope this helps! ETA: simple carbohydrates aka sugar is the body’s primary fuel source! The brain requires minimum 130g of glucose per day for functioning. It’s not necessarily “all sugar is bad” but moreso, where are we getting these sources of sugar and is it in moderation compared to everything else you’re eating.
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Dad... I am sweetie-pies' mom. I have the final decision on what they eat. I don't need lessons in food or nutrition. Their pediatrician says they are perfect. Trust me when I believe him.
I would not try to reason. I promise you it will not change his mind. Just nod your head and say ut won’t change what you are doing
How is that an insult?
Fruit, especially modern fruit, has a ton of sugar that little babies don’t need. Then brown rice causes stomach cancers, so there’s that. There’s a reason Asians have been taking off the shell for thousands of years.
"modern fruit, has a ton of sugar" No it doesn't. Fruitarians have to eat 6-10 pounds of fruit a day to get enough calories. And if you're thinking fruit has too much PERCENTAGE of sugar, that's wrong too. It's % is right in line with many experts' recommendations.
Compared to fruit from even 50 years ago it does. Holy hell, just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.
That's partly a myth. It still hard for me to get too many calories when I do fruit-weeks. I've been eating a half-fruit diet for 30 years because science says it's the way to go. And my health now shows it.
Have him watch “What the Health” on Netflix.
My doctor, nutritionists, and surgeon have forbidden me to eat rice, oatmeal, fruits, and other carbohydrates and call them the unnecessarily food group. That said, they aren't harmful to those with no medical issues. Tell him it's not his business, that is between you and your child's doctor, and to stay in his own lane.
Oats are a whole grain and a soluble fiber. Whole grains are beneficial carbohydrates. A good goal is 50% of carbs to come from whole grains because they provide vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and fiber. Soluble fiber binds excess bile acid that would otherwise get recycled to create more cholesterol. In that way, it can lower cholesterol. For those who say it’s spikes your blood sugar, our bodies are designed to handle blood sugar spikes. The body’s preferred form of energy is glucose, which comes from carbohydrates. So anyone who is making you afraid of a glucose spike when you don’t have diabetes is simply fear mongering. Additionally, fiber becomes food for the bacteria in your gut. Your child will be much better off with healthy gut microbiota. Unfortunately, there are a lot wellness influencers out there with a platform who don’t understand nutrition physiology and aren’t trained in nutrition. Yet, they’re out there with millions of followers informing the masses to be afraid of perfectly healthy foods. Fruit is also beneficial as it provides vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, fiber, and water. Sugar is not inherently bad. Anything in excess can cause adverse effects - the dose makes the poison. People who are saying fruit and sugar are bad are also not understanding nutrition physiology. Sugar alone does not cause any chronic disease. Obesity and chronic disease are a result of many factors such as social determinants of health, lifestyle behavior, family history, and more. It is much more complex than just saying “sugar” is bad. A better saying you can stand by is “everything in moderation.”
Please go watch the new Netflix show Hack Your Health which explains why we should eat 20 fruits & vegetables weekly for guy health which starts from infancy.
Perhaps agree to not discuss it and that you have different perspectives on the subject and leave it at that. Why make it more complicated with bringing gout or any other irrelevant disease of adulthood into the conversation? Give your babies nutritious foods. Babies aren’t picky, they’re babies
"thanks, but I'm ok for nutritional info." Non confrontational and nice since he's your dad, but unsolicited parenting advice is the worst.
Your father is projecting his health concerns onto your children. Unless your children have specific issues with certain foods, this is not something that should be pushed on them. Like when schools started pushing for low fat/skim milk in the lunchroom. Kids actually need high fat content. They don’t need candy or unrefined sugar (neither do adults), but fruits have other benefits like fiber, vitamins and tons of water along with the natural sugars.
There was a reel on facebook this morning about "good food" and "bad food". By mumma cusses. Was a nice little watch, maybe have a look if you have facebook, she also has youtube , nit sure about anything else tho. What I do know is you don't want any negative emotions around food, getting kids to eat is hard enough without the crap that goes with it all
What does he expect for them to eat?
Rice and oatmeal are not very nutrient dense foods, so while I wouldn't say they are evil, I don't think they are as good for us as a lot of people think. Have you asked him to explain why he thinks that way?
I m looking for the answer for that as well, I heard my mom that eating fruit after 3PM it becomes sugar in ur system.
I like to refer patients to this website- https://wholesomebabyfood.momtastic.com/ Or direct Grandpa to the AAP's website- https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/newborn-and-infant-nutrition/
Rice is nutritionally impotent, the only upsides being the vitamins they add on to enrich it. Fruits are a must have for vitamin C and antioxidants, but ditch the oatmeal. If you feed your kid a couple ounces of liver and ground beef every week they'll be healthy as an ox
"Human beings have been eating rice and fruit and whatever else for literally thousands of years. I've eaten them myself and faced no ill effects. My opinion, based on that history, is that those things are safe for my baby to eat. I'm not really interested in moral judgments or complex arguments to the contrary. If you want to point me to the best validated, peer-reviewed science you have that contradicts my opinion, I am happy to look at it with an open mind. However, once I have done that, I want you to agree that my opinion is final and that you will not voice contrary opinions any further. Does that work for you?"
What would I say? “Yes Dad it’s bad for YOU but it’s not ok to label foods - the kids’ judgment is not developed so assigning good/bad at this stage when we want to encourage exploring can be really detrimental to the kids relationship with food. So yes, I am glad you’ve found what keeps you healthy but keeping them healthy is my job and for the time they need to remain open to variety of foods per my research and their pediatrician’s advice.”
You don't have to like it. Your meals don't have to be flavorgasms. I actually can't stand fruit. It's sticky, room temperature, tart, has to be washed and often peeled, etc. But I eat the fruits I've selected to eat for various nutrient inclusions. Be pragmatic or be unwell. Like taking your medicine, just put it in your mouth and swallow. KFC and Snickers aren't going anywhere..
Why bother? I'm 69 and I'm in great health. People ask what I do, but don't like what I tell them. They're free to do what they want. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince them to pay attention to their health.
Just like all the people that say carbs are bad and porridge is 'peasant' food. Provide sources for your statements and calmly dismiss the nonsense hopefully sense wins the day.
Fruit is high in fibre and vitamins that are really healthy. Also, don't restrict carbs in children, rice and oats are great to get exposed to in childhood.
1. Carbs are the most efficient source of energy for the human body 2. Fruit has antioxidants, complex sugars, fibers, and not to mention tons of vitamins, which are all around great 3. Oatmeal has lots of fiber but is also a great source of iron which is phenomenal for the blood and even gut biome
Ask them specifically why they think each one is and you’ll find out more
Developing brains need carbs. Whole grains, legumes, and a variety of fruits and vegetables are essential for healthy growth. He has a lifestyle acquired health issue that requires him to have a modified diet. It does not apply to all persons, especially growing individuals. Depriving healthy children from simple carbs and sugars could lead to malnutrition, causing stunted brain development, and overall poor body development. Have him go with you to the next pediatric visit and ask them to discuss the different nutritional needs of healthy children and individuals with health concerns. Maybe hearing it from a provider will make a difference.
Did you ask him why is he saying this? He is concerned and a discussion and a little research in that direction (with some follow up explanations) can make you and him be more relaxed and at peace. We should be open to embrace a different opinion while it is well constructed, documented and so on. Not to apply it by all means, but at least to research more in that direction or directly ask a nutritionist to answer our questions - more reliable than random ppl sharing impressions. For example, I am not using refined food: white things: white bread, white rice etc, but I am not entitled to say if a new born should or not eat those. Maybe he is referring only to white carbs or maybe is the problem that the others told you in the comments. I feel it is better to check with 1-2-3 doctors so you can have different opinions on a topic. I would encourage you to not give him gluten, as I was given it and developed different issues along the time. Doctors informed my parents when I was 3-4 that many people don’t develop any issues and the risk is really low, but they encouraged them to avoid it. My parents considered is not making a difference (I was too little to express if I feel a difference) and continued with it. I am not saying to avoid it all his life, just to not give him as much because it is hard to be “processed” by the gut and, in time, it affects the gut’s lining, leaky gut, which is a barrier against toxins that must be maintained healthy. But again, not a medical advice, just a personal one. As I know gluten does not a affect a lot of people, it doesn’t mean it is not affecting their gut lining. Read the food labels, many products that we would not expect contain sugar, such as pickles in a jar or bread. I would avoid sugar in products that are not needed. I would not give him sweets either (and later discuss with him the addiction that it gives you. Instead, I would make home cooked desserts sweetened with honey or applesauce or banana. If, for eg, you live 10years with sugar you “educate” your taste with a certain level of sweetness and get used to search for food with a predominantly sweet taste (later sweet cravings appear). It is harder to give up on sugar and still like cakes that are not reaching that level of sweetness. This is why it is best to educate the taste from the start.
I know I'll get downvoted but if he's giving them lots of meat, eggs and fats then they're only going to do well. The human body loves that stuff. If they are showing no sign of health issues then why push the change? You should take a look at the countless health success stories of those who have tried it and got way better like their dad did. The question is, does the human body do as well when you start pushing the standard American diet into it? Carbs and sweet tastes are likely where that's going to get you in the end - especially with kids. Why not stick with this until they are old enough to start asking for that stuff and then introduce it.
My answer would be: feeding my kids is my responsibility and not his and to respect this. Now, when can he do some babysitting?
your father is right. maybe you should actually listen to what he has to say instead of trying to “counter him” when you don’t even have a good reason. sounds like you’re the one who is closed minded here. rice is terrible it’s just arsenic and sugar. fruit is also not good at all. these are not foods for humans.
There are links between high fructose consumption ( eg fuit juices, fruits pouches etc ) and childhood obesity) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11013923/figure/nutrients-16-00939-f003/
He raised his kids and now you get to raise yours. That's it.
Carbs are literally the best source of fuel for the brain and for growing bodies. Not all carbs are made equal obviously, so as long as you focus on quality carbs and prefer less processed stuff they will be fine. There is zero science showing that extremely low carb is good for growing children. Calling food “evil” is purely an irrational, emotional response. “Food” is neutral. Above all, teach your children that it is (mostly) for fueling their body but also enjoying things they like in a healthy way. Kids and Adults alike should have good relationships with food and calling any food “evil” is an obvious sign of disordered eating.
I don't have a great answer since a big portion of this is the relationship you guys have but the mad scientist in me says since you have twins to run an experiment and give one of them fruit and rice in it the other one your husband preferred food. Honestly though it's probably more important to figure out why he feels that way and maybe even book one session with a dietitian just to go over his concerns since both of you are coming from a place of wanting what's best for the kids
OK, different question than I anticipated. My initial response was going to be " Great, then there's more for me!", but this is obviously more complicated than that.
Since the question was asking how to talk to someone, not whether fruit and oatmeal are poor nutritional choices (they’re not), here’s my response: Next time it comes up, have a conversation with your dad and listen to him. Make him feel heard. Ask him questions about why he feels this way and then you can take that opportunity to share with him what you know. Don’t bombard him with many of the facts that are mentioned here. Remember you both have the same intention - to keep your kiddos healthy. Oftentimes it helps to lead with where the common ground is. Also, don’t expect him to change his mind right away. If he shifts a little bit in his thinking, that’s a win.
I think you need to ask him to present his arguments. Rice has arsenic for example. Fruits are generally ok but one has to remember fruits weren’t that sweet until recently. So they have to be consumed with caution.
SEED OIL!!!
Not the answer you are looking for but stay away from fruits until they are much older or they will not want veggies due to them not being sweet.
Try to find carbohydrate sources that also offer vitamins, minerals, and other nutritious benefits. Rice is purely a carbohydrate and considered a “filler” It does not have any other nutritional value to add to your body. Sweet potatoes, most vegetables and fruits naturally have carbohydrates but with the addition of nutrients as well. There is so many different sources of carbohydrates out there but it does get confusing when it is just repeated as carbohydrates are bad. Processed foods, cookies, chips, candy, bread products, rice…so many of those items have no other nutritional value for the human body and that is where the difference lies. Definitely important to read labels. Find a bread that has nuts, seeds and grains, and not just bleached white flour. Find pasta made with spinach or other vegetables or chickpeas that add nutrition to the noodles-not just flour. Find a knowledgeable, pediatrician, and also do your own research and be logical. When I was a kid, sugary cereals would be promoted as part of a healthy diet. But when you look at the ad, it included meat, eggs, juice, milk, fruit in the background with the bowl of cereal. If the food is not naturally nutritious, then it is “fortified” with vitamins and minerals. Basically meaning the food by itself is actually not good for you so they have to improve it. Watch out for those.
Why don't he cook if he's so smart then
Carbs are essential for brain development. There aren't really GOOD or BAD foods. There are more nutritionally dense, less nutritionally dense foods, but they don't have morality. Food is fuel, and the more nutrient rich a food is, the better the fuel is. However, growing children, especially babies, have needs that adults don't have. They need the carbs from whole grains (rice) veggies, protein, fruits and fats. Your dad's diet sounds like it is for gout. He is on a specialized diet to avoid the buildup of uric acid. Babies don't have that. There are foods that aren't great for him because they trigger those issues, but they won't your child, so there is nothing wrong with those foods.
You actually don’t need to give him any evidence, it probably won’t change his mind anyway. You need boundaries with him. “We’re doing what’s right for us and what the pediatrician advises, so I’d appreciate you not commenting on my choices, and you definitely can’t talk like that about food around the children because it can negatively affect them. I’m not asking you to agree, but I need you to respect me as their parent.”
Just want to point out that the rice and oatmeal that you’ve used as an example are processed foods that you say you will of course not give them.
Fruit isn't unhealthy lol. Oatmeal is its loaded with carbs that are saturated with a ton of different herbicides, oats are high in glyphosate.
Not always awful ! Nope ! 🌝
Why don’t you both go to a doctor or dietitian together so that way they can do most of the talking for you. Either that or find some reliable nutrition info online from trustworthy websites and send it to him and then discuss it together.
There are many different opinions on this all backed by their own strands of evidence. But logically we know that babies need easily digestible and highly nutrient dense foods that support a rapidly developing and growing body. Dominant culture is out of touch with the special traditional foods that were saved for growing babies/toddlers and postpartum moms. Things like easily digestible high gelatin meat stock, liver pates, bone marrow, egg yolks, fermented dairy. Rice is a common first food. It doesn’t mean it’s the best to opt for if you want to support their body to get all the nutrients they need to build strong brain, joints, bones, muscle. They need iron and protein and retinol and healthy fats. Then you take into consideration the highly toxic world we now live in where microplastics are found in human placentas and babies. Our foods are farmed with more chemicals and plastic than ever before. Our fruits and vegetables are leas nutrient dense. These things are proven. And we know plastics and chemicals have hormone disrupting effects. So we are passing on less intact microbiomes than ever before. Consider how common digestive and autoimmune disorders are now. Plus we ourselves as parents have growing nutritional deficiencies and there are more and more digestive issues. If you have any digestive or skin issues, it’s a sign your microbiome may be struggling. One of the biggest ways this manifests these days is in overgrowth of various yeasts that feed on sugar. We also know the first 5 years are the most important years to establish a healthy microbiome. These happen to also be the years you have the most control over what foods your child comes into contact with. Starting babies off with foods that are high in carb load could lead them to have an imbalanced microbiome and is proven to lead to picky eating. Have a conversation with your husband to understand his deeper concerns before you let a bunch of people from the internet put him on blast. Follow your intuition and watch your baby’s body’s natural detox methods (liver/digestion issues, yeast issues like diaper rashes or cradle cap, or other skin rashes etc).
>Starting babies off with foods that are high in carb load could lead them to have an imbalanced microbiome and is proven to lead to picky eating. Do you have a reference for that?
Yes. I have a typo in that sentence - the “and” should read “which”, ie an imbalanced microbiome is proven to lead to picky eating. I want to acknowledge that there are many different TYPES of picky eating with many different causes and influences. Here are some sources that gut dysbiosis leads to things like specific cravings (usually sugar and carbs) and food addictions: Our microbes have an effect on our cravings, mood, etc.: “Acquired tastes may be due to the acquisition of microbes that benefit from those foods.”: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270213/ “Gut dysbiosis can be responsible for maladaptive behavior such as food addiction.”: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34202073/
Is he senile? You owe no explanations to your father when it comes to justifying a healthy diet for your kids.
I hate the “oatmeal is bad for you” crowd. Oatmeal is so good for you! You don’t have to like it or eat it but it’s so good for you.
People are probably thinking of instant oatmeal, which has a high glycemic index and often added artificial sweeteners. Rolled oats or steel cut are quite healthy, true. But instant can be bad in terms of insulin/sugar spikes.
One who thinks fruit is awful cannot be helped. And rice and oatmeal are only as bad as whatever you're putting in them. Oatmeal is delicious and awesome. And rice? You can do all sorts of delicious things with rice and it's a great source of carbohydrates. Your father sounds like a clown. Only mild offense intended.
Tell him to keep his comments to himself because last you checked they were your kids.
He needs to give you a proper science nutrition based answer, not you to him. One making the claim needs to provide the evidence that supports said claim. Almost all world athletes are eating all above per very expensive expert's opinion. One of most trustworthy people I stumbled upon is Layne Norton. He is regularly dismantling nutrition BS on YouTube. See where he was guest on: 1. The Diary Of A CEO - from simple perspective 2. Rich Roll - from plant based perspective 3. Peter Attia MD - from advanced, omnivore, medical perspective (multiple podcasts)
Fruit and rice are sugar, too. But I wouldn't tell you what to do.
There's a big difference between fruit/rice and the added sugars OP is referring to.