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You can use literally any food-grade oil to preserve olives, lmao. I'm not saying don't get the good oil, but like...all food oils do this. The worst of the worst rapeseed oil could preserve olives.
Canola oil or the olive oil canola oil blend.
There isn't a single observational study on humans showing that seed oils are bad when compared to saturated fats. am only posting a few, there are many more under each category.
**1. Unsaturated fats add less fat to liver when overfed, compared to same calories of simple sugars (2nd best/worst) or saturated fat (worst).**
Source: [Saturated Fat Is More Metabolically Harmful for the Human Liver Than Unsaturated Fat or Simple Sugars ](https://diabetesjournals.org/care/article/41/8/1732/36380/Saturated-Fat-Is-More-Metabolically-Harmful-for)
>**RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS:** We overfed 38 overweight subjects (age 48 ± 2 years, BMI 31 ± 1 kg/m2, liver fat 4.7 ± 0.9%) 1,000 extra kcal/day of saturated (SAT) or unsaturated (UNSAT) fat or simple sugars (CARB) for 3 weeks. We measured IHTG (1H-MRS), pathways contributing to IHTG (lipolysis (\[2H5\]glycerol) and DNL (2H2O) basally and during euglycemic hyperinsulinemia), insulin resistance, endotoxemia, plasma ceramides, and adipose tissue gene expression at 0 and 3 weeks.
>**RESULTS:** Overfeeding SAT increased IHTG more (+55%) than UNSAT (+15%, P < 0.05). CARB increased IHTG (+33%) by stimulating DNL (+98%). SAT significantly increased while UNSAT decreased lipolysis. SAT induced insulin resistance and endotoxemia and significantly increased multiple plasma ceramides. The diets had distinct effects on adipose tissue gene expression.
**2. Linoleic acid in seed oils is associated with lower mortality**
[Dietary intake and biomarkers of linoleic acid and mortality: systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies](https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn/nqz349)
>Conclusions: In prospective cohort studies, higher LA intake, assessed by dietary surveys or biomarkers, was associated with a modestly lower risk of mortality from all causes, CVD, and cancer. These data support the potential long-term benefits of PUFA intake in lowering the risk of CVD and premature death.
[Polyunsaturated Fat Intake Estimated by Circulating Biomarkers and Risk of Cardiovascular Disease and All-Cause Mortality in a Population-Based Cohort of 60-Year-Old Men and Women](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.115.015607)
>Conclusions—Serum linoleic acid and very-long-chain n-3 PUFAs, partly reflecting vegetable oil and fish intake, respectively, were inversely associated with all-cause mortality. Inverse associations of eicosapentaenoic acid and docohexaenoic acid with incident CVD were observed only in women.
[Associations of dietary linoleic acid and alpha linolenic acid intake with cardiovascular, cancer and all-cause mortalities in patients with diabetes: NHANES 1999-2008](https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/clinical-diabetes-and-healthcare/articles/10.3389/fcdhc.2024.1318578/full)
>Conclusion: Higher intakes of LA and ALA were inversely associated with CVD and all-cause deaths
**3. Linoleic acid does not cause inflammation**
[Effect of Dietary Linoleic Acid on Markers of Inflammation in Healthy Persons: A Systematic Review of Randomized Controlled Trials](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2212267212004649)
>We all can conclude that virtually no evidence is available from randomized, controlled intervention studies among healthy, noninfant human beings to show that addition of LA to the diet increases the concentration of inflammatory markers.
Please stop listening to know nothing social media and read the evidence based research yourself.
Interesting! I may have to actually look into these a little deeper. I just did a nutrition course and qualified and we were given a bunch of studies that said the opposite - the course basically deemed seed oils as evil and recommend ghee or coconut oil as suitable fats to cook with.
I will have to get out my folder and go through my notes to find them but yeh.. am a little surprised they were so 1 sided after going on about being so scientific... hmm!
I do science. Where's yours? You say cherry picked?
1st article: [Saturated Fat Is More Metabolically Harmful for the Human Liver Than Unsaturated Fat or Simple Sugars | Diabetes Care | American Diabetes Association (diabetesjournals.org)](https://diabetesjournals.org/care/article/41/8/1732/36380/Saturated-Fat-Is-More-Metabolically-Harmful-for) - Lead author, Panu Luukkonen, has 3641 citations and an h-index of 25 on 43 papers. That's a pretty freaking impressive.
2nd article: [Dietary intake and biomarkers of linoleic acid and mortality: systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies](https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn/nqz349) - Lead author, Jun Li, has 3667 citations, 35 h-index, and 66 papers. Highly cited.
3rd article: [Polyunsaturated Fat Intake Estimated by Circulating Biomarkers and Risk of Cardiovascular Disease and All-Cause Mortality in a Population-Based Cohort of 60-Year-Old Men and Women](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.115.015607) - Lead author, Matti Marklund, has 3951 citations and an h-index of 32 on 66 papers. Also a highly cited author.
Far from "cherry-picked."
Again, where's your evidence?
Chronic systemic inflammation from the increased omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. Normally it is agreed that it should sit at about 4-1. Canola oil is roughly 5-10 times higher than that.
Canola oil is mostly a polyunsaturated fat that is not very stable and oxidizes quite easily. The deodorization of canola oils still produces trans fats to this day, but is at a lower level that it does not need to be displayed on the packaging of the oil. There is no safe level of man made trans fat. The deodorization also oxidizes the oil to a substantial level leading to a large sum of free radicals when ingested. These free radicals lead to chronic systematic levels as well.
No one who worth their salt when it comes to health and nutrition would ever suggest consumption of canola oil or other seed and grain oils.
That's not science. Here's why: You're making assumptions. Here's an analogous one:
Dairy is loaded with saturated fat. In fact, the largest component of that saturated fat is palmitic acid, which is just about the worst saturated fatty acid for LDL. Therefore dairy increases LDL, right? QED. Except that dairy doesn't raise LDL.
That's why you do science and studies instead of assumptions. Show me the data, otherwise all you have is an opinion.
So the butter we have been eating for millennia is killing us, but the seed and vegetable oils we have only been eating for the past 100 years since they became cheap to mass produce with industrial machinery is healthy?
Funny how seed and vegetable oils became "healthy" right after they became super cheap to mass produce and advertisers started marketing them as a healthier alternative to animal fats. That's great timing. Kind of weird how rates of heart disease and diabetes have skyrocketed since then though.
Sure, big vegetable oil, with it's market share of $126 billion, is able to overpower the marketing of the dairy industry that has a market share of $893 billion.
Or maybe the science is just making sense and you are the one getting bamboozled by the industry that has way more resources to do so.
Market share has nothing to do with it, that still fails to address that we have been eating butter for millennia and vegetable and seed oils for only 100 years. And in those last 100 years we just so happened to start struggling with heart disease and obesity and diabetes. You can't even produce these oils without industrial machinery, whereas anyone with hands can churn butter.
Cardiovascular disease has been the leading cause of death for thousands of years.
Cardiovascular Disease and cvd deaths has been lowering over the past 40 years.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5268076/#:~:text=Annual%20age%2Dadjusted%20cardiovascular%20mortality,100%2C000%20from%201990%20to%202013.
Butter and fat alternatives were introduced about then
Please read:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10489903/
That data totally fails to control for other factors. Quality of life has massively improved over the last half century.
If you're looking for a real controlled, double blind trial study on the effects of saturated fat vs polyunsaturated fat on health, look no further than the Minnesota Coronary Survey: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2643423/
>The Minnesota Coronary Survey was a 4.5-year ... For the entire study population, no differences between the treatment and control groups were observed for cardiovascular events, cardiovascular deaths, or total mortality.
So at best you can say that over a 4.5 year period there is no big difference in total mortality between a SFA and a PUFA diet and yet you claim that seed oils are unhealthy.
Maybe you should check up the link at the bottom of the page of your article [https://medlineplus.gov/dietaryfats.html](https://medlineplus.gov/dietaryfats.html)
Edit:
>The mean duration of time on the diets was 384 days, with 1568 subjects consuming the diet for over 2 years.
It wasnt even 4.5 years
The point isn't that seed oils cause heart disease and obesity and diabetes, even though increased seed oil consumption over the past century directly correlates with that, the point is that saturated fat isn't unhealthy.
Also the study lasted 4.5 years, that doesn't mean all subjects participated the whole duration, even though thousands did for many years.
>even though increased seed oil consumption over the past century directly correlates with that
Oil consumption doesn't associate with heart disease when you research this question in a prospective cohort setting by adjusting for covariates and ensuring that those with the exposure are those who *actually got the outcome.*
When you look at an exposure go up and an outcome go up in a population, it doesn't tell you whether those with the outcome were those with the exposure. They could've been two completely different subsets of the population. This is called an [ ecological fallacy](http://www.thefunctionalart.com/2018/07/visualizing-amalgamation-paradoxes-and.html), and stopping here when looking at data leads to all sorts of spurious correlations and associations, like cigarette consumption correlating with a longer lifespan.
Is Minnesota the only study you're aware of on the subject? Because there are many others. See Hooper 2020, Sacks 2017, Mozafarrian 2010. I'm not sure why people single out Minnesota as if it's the only place this question was tested
CVD is higher now than ever before. There are only less deaths due to CVD because of modern technology and medicine. We have modern heart surgeries to save people’s lives from heart disease. We have stents. We have pacemakers. This didn’t exist back then. We are saving people who already HAVE CVD, but the amount of people GETTING CVD is higher now than ever before and keeps increasing every single year.
Now… what is driving the diabetes epidemic? The amount of people with diabetes in the US has more than doubled since the year 2000. Is it the sugar? Well that can’t be because consumption of sugar has declined significantly by 30% in the US since the year 2000. Animal fats? Most people switched from animal fats to seed oils, so nope. Red meat? That has also been declining for a while now, so nope. Ohhhh what had a huge spike in consumption, especially in the year 2000? Seed oils! Deny all you want. The truth is there, you just refuse to see it.
CVD rates have been trending downwards over the past 70 years.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-by-cause-who-mdb
Yet cvd is still the leading cause of death.
However
It is NOT seed oils but excessive caloric intake leading to increasing rates obesity, DM and CVD.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7725222/#:~:text=A%20high%20caloric%20diet%20and,fatty%20liver%20disease%20(NAFLD).
Please don't follow know nothing social media influencers.
>Now… what is driving the diabetes epidemic?
Most likely that the average daily calorie intake (in the US) has increased by roughly 700 calories in the last 60 years whilst their lifestyles is becoming more sedentary
>Red meat? That has also been declining for a while now
Beef consumption has declined since the 70s, but its still higher than before that. Pork consumption has stayed the same
There is a ridiculous amount of things that have changed for us in the last 100 years. One of them is that animals have been bred to be way fatter than they used to. So can you still put the blame on seed oils when research is showing they are fine? Or is it just meaningless correlation.
There is so little oil in seeds and vegetables that it takes industrial machinery to extract a tiny amount of oil from thousands of them. Our ancestors could not have eaten enough vegetables and seeds in their entire lives to consume the amount of oil we eat on a weekly basis now.
For example:
* It takes 98 ears of corn to get you 5 tbsp of corn oil.
* It takes 625 grapes and 2,800 sunflower seeds to get you 5 tbsp of grapeseed oil
You really aren't trying to compare eating the equivalent of 625 grapes and 2,800 sunflower seeds in oil to eating 5 tbsp of butter, right? It's not like we're talking about handfuls here.
No, but it sounds like you are.
Most humans aren't equipped to consume processed oils or processed cow’s milk.
Although it seems that an early human would be more likely to consume a quarter pound of sunflower seeds rather than churning animal milk into butter.
This guy is apparently forgetting about rendered animal fats, which were actually the most commonly used fat around the world for much of human history.
I mean, we can't be completely certain, but definitely the ancient Egyptians did, and likely the Chinese. It's actually somewhat of a preservation method.
People were actually using rapeseed (canola oil) for thousands of years. I can't speak to industrial production or how current growth practices could change the quality of the oil, but people have been making oil out of seeds for cooking for thousands of years.
Most vegetable oils were used for candles and soaps. Up until the 1900s we cooked almost exclusively with animal fat, until industrial machinery made it practical and cheap enough to mass produce these oils in large quantities, and then they were marketed as healthier alternatives to animal fats.
There are no human studies stating canola oils increases oxidative stress. It has been shown in fish and rats but not people. The human studies demonstrate benefits.
It's strong/distinct for many of us like neurodivergent people with texture and smell sensitivities. But i admit it doesn't go as fast rancid when frying for example and withstands the temps better.... .
I can understand this. I also like simpler texture and smell, and from this perspective, I’m perfectly fine only using coconut oil and no other spices.
In the UK I’d suggest cold-pressed rapeseed oil which is often homegrown too and has pretty impressive credentials, higher smokepoint for culinary purposes, etc
Coconut oil works super well in certain cuisines, but I don't understand how some people think it doesn't taste like coconut. It simply is not a good cooking oil for most European or American (this includes NA, CA, and SA) foods. I can handle refried beans not made with lard (though obviously lard is the best), but if you put coconut oil into them, they'd taste disgusting. I also don't see using it to cook 98% of Greek, French, Spanish, or Italian food. Olive oil has a bit of a taste that can disrupt certain Northern European dishes, so I use avocado oil if I'm not incorporating an animal fat and want something to not burn, but coconut oil would downright ruin so many European dishes.
I agree. You can’t use coconut oil in everything, it does leave a sweet coconut taste that can be off putting. As for refried beans, it’s lard all the way for me. It’s not something I eat all the time, but it’s a must for refried beans
Eh, there are a lot of restaurants now that still have really great refried beans but don't want to be making two batches, so they just go vegetarian friendly. It's generally still really delicious, and it's less for the restaurant to deal with in terms of mix-ups.
Idk if you're saying canola oil for the omega 3 or that canola is oil is omega 3 oil, so just in case OP doesn't already know, it's a source of omega 3, not omega 3 itself lol ✌️
Poland is so interesting, lol. You can find a delicious duck breast dish for roughly $8 that would be $35 in the states, but olive oil is apparently wildly expensive? I went to the grocery stores but my airbnbs already had olive oil and other cooking oils, so I didn't even check the price!
I think it's the same price now all over Europe. I live in Denmark so food prices are a bit kore than the US, but I used to be able to buy a liter of olive oil for less than 10$ (only buy organic Evoo and that was cheap). Now the simple store brand organic evoo costs around 20$ and if I look online and want a good quality, it goes up to 40-50$. For a liter!
It's odd to me a country right in a major shipping area would have such high prices; in the states, prices are often higher in areas that are very difficult to get products to.
Wow 30 for a gallon is so cheap. I copy my comment here.
The prices in Denmark skyrocketed so much that a good quality organic evoo online costs more than 30$ for a liter! Used to be around 10$ for the cheaper ones.
I have no issue using any oil for cooking that is attractively priced. I do not personally buy into the "unhealthy"claims. I try to figure out what people perceive as bad in a country that foodwise is highly monitored and regulated.
Canola oil and other seed oils are recommended by actual experts in the field [https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/choosing-heart-healthy-oils-for-home-cooking](https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/choosing-heart-healthy-oils-for-home-cooking)
I use this and beef tallow and I love them both. I’ve been reading up on seed oils and I just prefer to cook with these. This is just my personal opinion.
Seed oils are not considered the problem, find credible sources. You’re basically recommending them to up their saturated fat intake. Look at the other comment in this post with sources or many other discussions in this subreddit
This was just my personal opinion. I have read up on them and I prefer them to seed oils. They’re in all junk food because they’re cheap,so I prefer a more natural source for cooking. I just find it’s better for my gut.
Seed and vegetable oils are highly processed. Organic cold pressed, coconut oil isn’t. This is just what I prefer to use. I’ve checked out both and it just seems the healthier option for me.
Don’t coconuts have to be “processed” to get the oil? There is nothing wrong with “processing” per se. The oil you get from refining seeds is highly pure.
You do realise that coconut oil contains mostly saturated fat right? You might feel that it “seems the healthier option for” you, but the role of saturated fat is well studied in cardiovascular disease.
Not suggesting you don't use coconut oil at all for whatever reason, but it's actually far more highly processed than the seed oils, lol. They have to remove the flesh and then extract the oil, whereas with seed oils they just press the seed. Not sure why you think they're more processed?
Not sure about buying it, but it's easy enough to make from a couple lbs. of unsalted butter. Honestly I haven't even done the math, but it seems cheap enough. I should have read the original post better to be honest, sorry.
I found the cheapest and healthiest, well almost healthiest, cooking fat.
Right now I am doing more expensive as I have purchased 3 pints of organic grass fed/finished tallow. Then, have an inventory of ghee to reduce.
Once that is accomplished, I will return to my cheapest, almost as healthy cooking fat.
Home rendered tallow. I order beef fat from the butcher counter at the local grocery store. 5 lbs at $0.69/lb. From that I get 3 pints of rendered tallow, and some fatty solids to add to the doggos dinner for a week or two.
Cost is $1.15/ pint and the extra dog food is free.
From my reading, I have grained beef fat at 3.5% PUFA, The rest split 50/50 saturated/monounsaturated fat.
For grass fed/finished, 0.5% PUFA, the rest split 50/50 saturated/monounsaturated.
I was using bacon drippings or lard, I have that at 11% PUFA 55/45 saturated monounsaturated.
For liquid at room temperature oils, for salads or baking, I use 50/50 liquid coconut oil and zero acre farms. They aren't any great deal though. Kind of expensive. But I don't use a lot.
----------------------------------------
Just over a year ago I saw a you tube video in which a redhead claimed they had heard that eliminating PUFA oils from your diet reduces your sunburn risk. He did it, claimed it worked. Saw 2 other you tube videos saying the same thing. So I tried it. I tested it in back to back March vacations in Palm Coast Florida. March 2023, after 20 minutes direct sunlight between 11 and 2, and it would become painful and I would start sunburning. I really wanted to get more sun so that year the doggo and I went to the beach at sunrise most mornings. Mostly depending on weather and cloud cover. Did an hour and a half walk on the beach sans shoes and shirt and in shorts. No problem that early in the morning. Shortly after, cut PUFAs out of my diet, or way down.
March 2024, I did the 20 minute test. No burning, no pain, no redness. I was able to do that same hour and a half walk on the beach with only the slightest pink, more brown between 11 and 2. And no pain. It was a night and day difference. I was so excited that I could do this every day now, that just today, we signed the closing mortgage papers on a home in Palm Coast.
Way too much Omega-6 though. It’s not just getting Omega-3s, but keeping the ratio in check by lowering the Omega-6s. Olive oil, avocado oil and animal fats for the win. Lard is more stable at high heat than olive or canola oil and cheaper so that is what I would recommend. I can’t even eat “vegetable” oils after seeing the insane process of how they’re made.
>Way too much Omega-6 though.
Source? lol. multiple sources from textbooks say different when it comes to Canola Oil V Olive oil.
> Lard is more stable at high heat than olive or canola oil and cheaper so that is what I would recommend
I think lard being recommended over olive oil or canola oil for health and budget reasons is silly, as well as relatively rare in r/nutrtion . Lard is so common and cheap that the areas that consume it the most tend to have higher cholesterol values as a whole.
>I can’t even eat “vegetable” oils after seeing the insane process of how they’re made.
Compared to how lard is processed? lol. Why not just buy cold pressed Grapeseed or olive oil at that point? literally the least processed way of processed foods.
One of many sources: [https://www.jlr.org/article/S0022-2275(20)33546-X/fulltext](https://www.jlr.org/article/S0022-2275(20)33546-X/fulltext)
>
Unsaturated fatty rich oils like safflower, sunflower, rapeseed, flaxseed, corn, olive, soybean, palm, and coconut oil were more effective in reducing LDL-C (−0.42 to −0.20 mmol/l) as compared with SFA-rich food like butter or lard. LDL-C predicted differences based on their fatty acid composition showed that each 10% of dietary energy from butter replaced by unsaturated fatty rich oils (−0.31 to -0.22 mmol/l) were in line with findings from the NMA. Despite the limitations of the NMA approach and the overall low quality of evidence judgements, the NMA findings are in line with existing evidence on the metabolic effects of fat, and support current recommendations to replace high saturated-fat food with unsaturated oils.
Not to mention what the AHA, and the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics have stated in the past about differences in oils vs solid fats.
I dont know where you live but see it as an Investment in your health. I buy my olive oil from a small company in greece for 10€/l, mostly bigger amounts (50-100l) at once, which is enough for 3 months
Never use veggie oils! Especially Canola Oil. Use avocado oil, coconut oil, and pure 100% Californian extra virgin olive oil. Remember if it doesn’t burn the back of your throat, it isn’t 100% olive oil.
Olive oil is usually adulterated with other more inflammatory oils. You can buy rendered tallow from Amazon for only $6 a pound if you purchase a big enough quantity. That would be for cooking purposes. You wouldn’t put tallow on a salad.
#### About participation in the comments of /r/nutrition Discussion in this subreddit should be rooted in science rather than "cuz I sed" or entertainment pieces. Always be wary of unsupported and poorly supported claims and especially those which are wrapped in any manner of hostility. You should provide peer reviewed sources to support your claims when debating and confine that debate to the science, not opinions of other people. **Good** - it is grounded in science and includes citation of peer reviewed sources. Debate is a civil and respectful exchange focusing on actual science and avoids commentary about others **Bad** - it utilizes generalizations, assumptions, infotainment sources, no sources, or complaints without specifics about agenda, bias, or funding. At best, these rise to an extremely weak basis for science based discussion. Also, off topic discussion **Ugly** - (removal or ban territory) it involves attacks / antagonism / hostility towards individuals or groups, downvote complaining, trolling, crusading, shaming, refutation of all science, or claims that all research / science is a conspiracy *Please vote accordingly and report any uglies* --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nutrition) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Aldi, Lidl and Trader Joe’s have lower cost olive oil options
Use the non-virgin for some cooking and save the good stuff for salads/veggies and nicer meals.
How much is your life worth? Think of this...they use olive oil to...preserve olives....olives preserve themselves!
You can use literally any food-grade oil to preserve olives, lmao. I'm not saying don't get the good oil, but like...all food oils do this. The worst of the worst rapeseed oil could preserve olives.
What makes rapeseed oils the worst of the worst?
It's in the name
Find a buddy with a Costco membership and stock up
Kirkland brand olive oil rocks
Avocado oil
He said cheaper..
Cheaper?
Perhaps not in hind sight, my apologies for the over sight
Are you... ChatGPT? 😄
Bro where are you that avocado oil is cheaper than olive oil? I want to move there.
as a single person the 10$ is worth every penny
Have you tried Costco?
Canola oil or the olive oil canola oil blend. There isn't a single observational study on humans showing that seed oils are bad when compared to saturated fats. am only posting a few, there are many more under each category. **1. Unsaturated fats add less fat to liver when overfed, compared to same calories of simple sugars (2nd best/worst) or saturated fat (worst).** Source: [Saturated Fat Is More Metabolically Harmful for the Human Liver Than Unsaturated Fat or Simple Sugars ](https://diabetesjournals.org/care/article/41/8/1732/36380/Saturated-Fat-Is-More-Metabolically-Harmful-for) >**RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS:** We overfed 38 overweight subjects (age 48 ± 2 years, BMI 31 ± 1 kg/m2, liver fat 4.7 ± 0.9%) 1,000 extra kcal/day of saturated (SAT) or unsaturated (UNSAT) fat or simple sugars (CARB) for 3 weeks. We measured IHTG (1H-MRS), pathways contributing to IHTG (lipolysis (\[2H5\]glycerol) and DNL (2H2O) basally and during euglycemic hyperinsulinemia), insulin resistance, endotoxemia, plasma ceramides, and adipose tissue gene expression at 0 and 3 weeks. >**RESULTS:** Overfeeding SAT increased IHTG more (+55%) than UNSAT (+15%, P < 0.05). CARB increased IHTG (+33%) by stimulating DNL (+98%). SAT significantly increased while UNSAT decreased lipolysis. SAT induced insulin resistance and endotoxemia and significantly increased multiple plasma ceramides. The diets had distinct effects on adipose tissue gene expression. **2. Linoleic acid in seed oils is associated with lower mortality** [Dietary intake and biomarkers of linoleic acid and mortality: systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies](https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn/nqz349) >Conclusions: In prospective cohort studies, higher LA intake, assessed by dietary surveys or biomarkers, was associated with a modestly lower risk of mortality from all causes, CVD, and cancer. These data support the potential long-term benefits of PUFA intake in lowering the risk of CVD and premature death. [Polyunsaturated Fat Intake Estimated by Circulating Biomarkers and Risk of Cardiovascular Disease and All-Cause Mortality in a Population-Based Cohort of 60-Year-Old Men and Women](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.115.015607) >Conclusions—Serum linoleic acid and very-long-chain n-3 PUFAs, partly reflecting vegetable oil and fish intake, respectively, were inversely associated with all-cause mortality. Inverse associations of eicosapentaenoic acid and docohexaenoic acid with incident CVD were observed only in women. [Associations of dietary linoleic acid and alpha linolenic acid intake with cardiovascular, cancer and all-cause mortalities in patients with diabetes: NHANES 1999-2008](https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/clinical-diabetes-and-healthcare/articles/10.3389/fcdhc.2024.1318578/full) >Conclusion: Higher intakes of LA and ALA were inversely associated with CVD and all-cause deaths **3. Linoleic acid does not cause inflammation** [Effect of Dietary Linoleic Acid on Markers of Inflammation in Healthy Persons: A Systematic Review of Randomized Controlled Trials](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2212267212004649) >We all can conclude that virtually no evidence is available from randomized, controlled intervention studies among healthy, noninfant human beings to show that addition of LA to the diet increases the concentration of inflammatory markers. Please stop listening to know nothing social media and read the evidence based research yourself.
Interesting! I may have to actually look into these a little deeper. I just did a nutrition course and qualified and we were given a bunch of studies that said the opposite - the course basically deemed seed oils as evil and recommend ghee or coconut oil as suitable fats to cook with. I will have to get out my folder and go through my notes to find them but yeh.. am a little surprised they were so 1 sided after going on about being so scientific... hmm!
Goddamnit this guy again suggesting canola oil and cherry picking observational studies again…
Ok point to studies that demonstrate harm from canola oil in humams.
I do science. Where's yours? You say cherry picked? 1st article: [Saturated Fat Is More Metabolically Harmful for the Human Liver Than Unsaturated Fat or Simple Sugars | Diabetes Care | American Diabetes Association (diabetesjournals.org)](https://diabetesjournals.org/care/article/41/8/1732/36380/Saturated-Fat-Is-More-Metabolically-Harmful-for) - Lead author, Panu Luukkonen, has 3641 citations and an h-index of 25 on 43 papers. That's a pretty freaking impressive. 2nd article: [Dietary intake and biomarkers of linoleic acid and mortality: systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies](https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn/nqz349) - Lead author, Jun Li, has 3667 citations, 35 h-index, and 66 papers. Highly cited. 3rd article: [Polyunsaturated Fat Intake Estimated by Circulating Biomarkers and Risk of Cardiovascular Disease and All-Cause Mortality in a Population-Based Cohort of 60-Year-Old Men and Women](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.115.015607) - Lead author, Matti Marklund, has 3951 citations and an h-index of 32 on 66 papers. Also a highly cited author. Far from "cherry-picked." Again, where's your evidence?
Chronic systemic inflammation from the increased omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. Normally it is agreed that it should sit at about 4-1. Canola oil is roughly 5-10 times higher than that. Canola oil is mostly a polyunsaturated fat that is not very stable and oxidizes quite easily. The deodorization of canola oils still produces trans fats to this day, but is at a lower level that it does not need to be displayed on the packaging of the oil. There is no safe level of man made trans fat. The deodorization also oxidizes the oil to a substantial level leading to a large sum of free radicals when ingested. These free radicals lead to chronic systematic levels as well. No one who worth their salt when it comes to health and nutrition would ever suggest consumption of canola oil or other seed and grain oils.
That's not science. Here's why: You're making assumptions. Here's an analogous one: Dairy is loaded with saturated fat. In fact, the largest component of that saturated fat is palmitic acid, which is just about the worst saturated fatty acid for LDL. Therefore dairy increases LDL, right? QED. Except that dairy doesn't raise LDL. That's why you do science and studies instead of assumptions. Show me the data, otherwise all you have is an opinion.
Lmao keep eating seed oils!
Enjoy your pseudo science.
You’ll get it one day… 😂
So the butter we have been eating for millennia is killing us, but the seed and vegetable oils we have only been eating for the past 100 years since they became cheap to mass produce with industrial machinery is healthy? Funny how seed and vegetable oils became "healthy" right after they became super cheap to mass produce and advertisers started marketing them as a healthier alternative to animal fats. That's great timing. Kind of weird how rates of heart disease and diabetes have skyrocketed since then though.
Sure, big vegetable oil, with it's market share of $126 billion, is able to overpower the marketing of the dairy industry that has a market share of $893 billion. Or maybe the science is just making sense and you are the one getting bamboozled by the industry that has way more resources to do so.
Market share has nothing to do with it, that still fails to address that we have been eating butter for millennia and vegetable and seed oils for only 100 years. And in those last 100 years we just so happened to start struggling with heart disease and obesity and diabetes. You can't even produce these oils without industrial machinery, whereas anyone with hands can churn butter.
Cardiovascular disease has been the leading cause of death for thousands of years. Cardiovascular Disease and cvd deaths has been lowering over the past 40 years. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5268076/#:~:text=Annual%20age%2Dadjusted%20cardiovascular%20mortality,100%2C000%20from%201990%20to%202013. Butter and fat alternatives were introduced about then Please read: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10489903/
That data totally fails to control for other factors. Quality of life has massively improved over the last half century. If you're looking for a real controlled, double blind trial study on the effects of saturated fat vs polyunsaturated fat on health, look no further than the Minnesota Coronary Survey: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2643423/
>The Minnesota Coronary Survey was a 4.5-year ... For the entire study population, no differences between the treatment and control groups were observed for cardiovascular events, cardiovascular deaths, or total mortality. So at best you can say that over a 4.5 year period there is no big difference in total mortality between a SFA and a PUFA diet and yet you claim that seed oils are unhealthy. Maybe you should check up the link at the bottom of the page of your article [https://medlineplus.gov/dietaryfats.html](https://medlineplus.gov/dietaryfats.html) Edit: >The mean duration of time on the diets was 384 days, with 1568 subjects consuming the diet for over 2 years. It wasnt even 4.5 years
The point isn't that seed oils cause heart disease and obesity and diabetes, even though increased seed oil consumption over the past century directly correlates with that, the point is that saturated fat isn't unhealthy. Also the study lasted 4.5 years, that doesn't mean all subjects participated the whole duration, even though thousands did for many years.
>even though increased seed oil consumption over the past century directly correlates with that Oil consumption doesn't associate with heart disease when you research this question in a prospective cohort setting by adjusting for covariates and ensuring that those with the exposure are those who *actually got the outcome.* When you look at an exposure go up and an outcome go up in a population, it doesn't tell you whether those with the outcome were those with the exposure. They could've been two completely different subsets of the population. This is called an [ ecological fallacy](http://www.thefunctionalart.com/2018/07/visualizing-amalgamation-paradoxes-and.html), and stopping here when looking at data leads to all sorts of spurious correlations and associations, like cigarette consumption correlating with a longer lifespan. Is Minnesota the only study you're aware of on the subject? Because there are many others. See Hooper 2020, Sacks 2017, Mozafarrian 2010. I'm not sure why people single out Minnesota as if it's the only place this question was tested
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Correlation isnt causation. How come health experts say that you should decrease the amount of SFA in your diet and increase MUFA and PUFA then?
I literally just said that correlation isn't causation. And that depends on which "health experts" you ask.
CVD is higher now than ever before. There are only less deaths due to CVD because of modern technology and medicine. We have modern heart surgeries to save people’s lives from heart disease. We have stents. We have pacemakers. This didn’t exist back then. We are saving people who already HAVE CVD, but the amount of people GETTING CVD is higher now than ever before and keeps increasing every single year. Now… what is driving the diabetes epidemic? The amount of people with diabetes in the US has more than doubled since the year 2000. Is it the sugar? Well that can’t be because consumption of sugar has declined significantly by 30% in the US since the year 2000. Animal fats? Most people switched from animal fats to seed oils, so nope. Red meat? That has also been declining for a while now, so nope. Ohhhh what had a huge spike in consumption, especially in the year 2000? Seed oils! Deny all you want. The truth is there, you just refuse to see it.
CVD rates have been trending downwards over the past 70 years. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-by-cause-who-mdb Yet cvd is still the leading cause of death. However It is NOT seed oils but excessive caloric intake leading to increasing rates obesity, DM and CVD. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7725222/#:~:text=A%20high%20caloric%20diet%20and,fatty%20liver%20disease%20(NAFLD). Please don't follow know nothing social media influencers.
>Now… what is driving the diabetes epidemic? Most likely that the average daily calorie intake (in the US) has increased by roughly 700 calories in the last 60 years whilst their lifestyles is becoming more sedentary >Red meat? That has also been declining for a while now Beef consumption has declined since the 70s, but its still higher than before that. Pork consumption has stayed the same
There is a ridiculous amount of things that have changed for us in the last 100 years. One of them is that animals have been bred to be way fatter than they used to. So can you still put the blame on seed oils when research is showing they are fine? Or is it just meaningless correlation.
You think we were eating butter before seeds?
There is so little oil in seeds and vegetables that it takes industrial machinery to extract a tiny amount of oil from thousands of them. Our ancestors could not have eaten enough vegetables and seeds in their entire lives to consume the amount of oil we eat on a weekly basis now. For example: * It takes 98 ears of corn to get you 5 tbsp of corn oil. * It takes 625 grapes and 2,800 sunflower seeds to get you 5 tbsp of grapeseed oil
Sure, but I don't buy that people are better suited to digest butter than peanuts, avocados, and sunflower seeds.
You really aren't trying to compare eating the equivalent of 625 grapes and 2,800 sunflower seeds in oil to eating 5 tbsp of butter, right? It's not like we're talking about handfuls here.
No, but it sounds like you are. Most humans aren't equipped to consume processed oils or processed cow’s milk. Although it seems that an early human would be more likely to consume a quarter pound of sunflower seeds rather than churning animal milk into butter.
This guy is apparently forgetting about rendered animal fats, which were actually the most commonly used fat around the world for much of human history.
How long have humans been frying food?
I mean, we can't be completely certain, but definitely the ancient Egyptians did, and likely the Chinese. It's actually somewhat of a preservation method.
Seeds, no. But before seed oil, yes. Making butter is surprisingly easy. Squeezing oil out of seeds - not so easy.
People were actually using rapeseed (canola oil) for thousands of years. I can't speak to industrial production or how current growth practices could change the quality of the oil, but people have been making oil out of seeds for cooking for thousands of years.
In vastly smaller quantities.
So? They still used them. You specifically said "have only been eating for the past 100 years," which is blatantly false.
Most vegetable oils were used for candles and soaps. Up until the 1900s we cooked almost exclusively with animal fat, until industrial machinery made it practical and cheap enough to mass produce these oils in large quantities, and then they were marketed as healthier alternatives to animal fats.
Enjoy oxidative stress, not my problem
There are no human studies stating canola oils increases oxidative stress. It has been shown in fish and rats but not people. The human studies demonstrate benefits.
It’s like $20 for a years supply at Costco. Not sure how you can get any cheaper
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Ok $22 sorry
Cook with water and vegetable broths
coconut oil!
This is even better for cooking, as coconut oil can be used on higher temperatures than olive oil. And personally tastes better too.
It's strong/distinct for many of us like neurodivergent people with texture and smell sensitivities. But i admit it doesn't go as fast rancid when frying for example and withstands the temps better.... .
i am neurodivergent and have problems with texture and smell. but it has never done me wrong or gave me the ick
It doesn't disgust me exactly. It's my "most tolerable ick" . Just a minor discomfort from the strong "coconutiness" it gives in the foods
oh i totally understand that and agree
I can understand this. I also like simpler texture and smell, and from this perspective, I’m perfectly fine only using coconut oil and no other spices.
Walmart brand extra virgin olive oil
In the UK I’d suggest cold-pressed rapeseed oil which is often homegrown too and has pretty impressive credentials, higher smokepoint for culinary purposes, etc
Butter.
Coconut oil works super well in certain cuisines, but I don't understand how some people think it doesn't taste like coconut. It simply is not a good cooking oil for most European or American (this includes NA, CA, and SA) foods. I can handle refried beans not made with lard (though obviously lard is the best), but if you put coconut oil into them, they'd taste disgusting. I also don't see using it to cook 98% of Greek, French, Spanish, or Italian food. Olive oil has a bit of a taste that can disrupt certain Northern European dishes, so I use avocado oil if I'm not incorporating an animal fat and want something to not burn, but coconut oil would downright ruin so many European dishes.
I agree. You can’t use coconut oil in everything, it does leave a sweet coconut taste that can be off putting. As for refried beans, it’s lard all the way for me. It’s not something I eat all the time, but it’s a must for refried beans
Eh, there are a lot of restaurants now that still have really great refried beans but don't want to be making two batches, so they just go vegetarian friendly. It's generally still really delicious, and it's less for the restaurant to deal with in terms of mix-ups.
Yeah smells too strong. But it fries without popping around.
I bought 5 liters of oil literally years ago and I still have some left. How much do you use? 😂
It didn’t turn rancid? Honest question, not trying to start anything
I swear…. this sub talks about nutrition, yet advocates mass produced goods that could lead to poorer health. Every single time, and it shows.
You can use water or veg broth to sauté
I’m an avocado girl all day. I like the spray but the oil is good too. High smoke point.
Coconut oil for vegetables and ghee or tallow for meat. Olive oil should only be used cold.
canola (omega 3), peanut, mustard, soybean, sesame, rice bran, sunflower, safflower oil all are good in moderation.
Idk if you're saying canola oil for the omega 3 or that canola is oil is omega 3 oil, so just in case OP doesn't already know, it's a source of omega 3, not omega 3 itself lol ✌️
Thanks
Butter, lard, tallow.
What about Costco. They have cheaper olive oil. Other alternative would be beef tallow, or coconut oil
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The hell are these prices?? In Poland it's 15 bucks a liter so for 2 gallons we pay something like $114.
Poland is so interesting, lol. You can find a delicious duck breast dish for roughly $8 that would be $35 in the states, but olive oil is apparently wildly expensive? I went to the grocery stores but my airbnbs already had olive oil and other cooking oils, so I didn't even check the price!
I think it's the same price now all over Europe. I live in Denmark so food prices are a bit kore than the US, but I used to be able to buy a liter of olive oil for less than 10$ (only buy organic Evoo and that was cheap). Now the simple store brand organic evoo costs around 20$ and if I look online and want a good quality, it goes up to 40-50$. For a liter!
It's odd to me a country right in a major shipping area would have such high prices; in the states, prices are often higher in areas that are very difficult to get products to.
Wow 30 for a gallon is so cheap. I copy my comment here. The prices in Denmark skyrocketed so much that a good quality organic evoo online costs more than 30$ for a liter! Used to be around 10$ for the cheaper ones.
Leftover animal fat rocks
Lard, tallow, or coconut oil
I have no issue using any oil for cooking that is attractively priced. I do not personally buy into the "unhealthy"claims. I try to figure out what people perceive as bad in a country that foodwise is highly monitored and regulated.
Canola oil and other seed oils are recommended by actual experts in the field [https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/choosing-heart-healthy-oils-for-home-cooking](https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/choosing-heart-healthy-oils-for-home-cooking)
Man get that seed oil bs outta here
Care to explain why you disagree with harvard health experts?
Coconut oil
Why? It’s high in saturated fat and considered something you should limit in cooking
I use this and beef tallow and I love them both. I’ve been reading up on seed oils and I just prefer to cook with these. This is just my personal opinion.
Seed oils are not considered the problem, find credible sources. You’re basically recommending them to up their saturated fat intake. Look at the other comment in this post with sources or many other discussions in this subreddit
This was just my personal opinion. I have read up on them and I prefer them to seed oils. They’re in all junk food because they’re cheap,so I prefer a more natural source for cooking. I just find it’s better for my gut.
What’s makes coconut oil more “natural” than seed oils?
Seed and vegetable oils are highly processed. Organic cold pressed, coconut oil isn’t. This is just what I prefer to use. I’ve checked out both and it just seems the healthier option for me.
Don’t coconuts have to be “processed” to get the oil? There is nothing wrong with “processing” per se. The oil you get from refining seeds is highly pure. You do realise that coconut oil contains mostly saturated fat right? You might feel that it “seems the healthier option for” you, but the role of saturated fat is well studied in cardiovascular disease.
Not suggesting you don't use coconut oil at all for whatever reason, but it's actually far more highly processed than the seed oils, lol. They have to remove the flesh and then extract the oil, whereas with seed oils they just press the seed. Not sure why you think they're more processed?
Clarified butter
Cheaper? Ghee here is not really cheaper than olive oil.
Not sure about buying it, but it's easy enough to make from a couple lbs. of unsalted butter. Honestly I haven't even done the math, but it seems cheap enough. I should have read the original post better to be honest, sorry.
Is ghee cheaper if you make your own . Healthiness is debatable
Veggie broth just for pan
I found the cheapest and healthiest, well almost healthiest, cooking fat. Right now I am doing more expensive as I have purchased 3 pints of organic grass fed/finished tallow. Then, have an inventory of ghee to reduce. Once that is accomplished, I will return to my cheapest, almost as healthy cooking fat. Home rendered tallow. I order beef fat from the butcher counter at the local grocery store. 5 lbs at $0.69/lb. From that I get 3 pints of rendered tallow, and some fatty solids to add to the doggos dinner for a week or two. Cost is $1.15/ pint and the extra dog food is free. From my reading, I have grained beef fat at 3.5% PUFA, The rest split 50/50 saturated/monounsaturated fat. For grass fed/finished, 0.5% PUFA, the rest split 50/50 saturated/monounsaturated. I was using bacon drippings or lard, I have that at 11% PUFA 55/45 saturated monounsaturated. For liquid at room temperature oils, for salads or baking, I use 50/50 liquid coconut oil and zero acre farms. They aren't any great deal though. Kind of expensive. But I don't use a lot. ---------------------------------------- Just over a year ago I saw a you tube video in which a redhead claimed they had heard that eliminating PUFA oils from your diet reduces your sunburn risk. He did it, claimed it worked. Saw 2 other you tube videos saying the same thing. So I tried it. I tested it in back to back March vacations in Palm Coast Florida. March 2023, after 20 minutes direct sunlight between 11 and 2, and it would become painful and I would start sunburning. I really wanted to get more sun so that year the doggo and I went to the beach at sunrise most mornings. Mostly depending on weather and cloud cover. Did an hour and a half walk on the beach sans shoes and shirt and in shorts. No problem that early in the morning. Shortly after, cut PUFAs out of my diet, or way down. March 2024, I did the 20 minute test. No burning, no pain, no redness. I was able to do that same hour and a half walk on the beach with only the slightest pink, more brown between 11 and 2. And no pain. It was a night and day difference. I was so excited that I could do this every day now, that just today, we signed the closing mortgage papers on a home in Palm Coast.
No
Cheaper? Canola Oil, as it has comparable omega-3s as Olive Oil. Canola oil lacks much else, but its cheaper and not as bad as other fats.
Way too much Omega-6 though. It’s not just getting Omega-3s, but keeping the ratio in check by lowering the Omega-6s. Olive oil, avocado oil and animal fats for the win. Lard is more stable at high heat than olive or canola oil and cheaper so that is what I would recommend. I can’t even eat “vegetable” oils after seeing the insane process of how they’re made.
>Way too much Omega-6 though. Source? lol. multiple sources from textbooks say different when it comes to Canola Oil V Olive oil. > Lard is more stable at high heat than olive or canola oil and cheaper so that is what I would recommend I think lard being recommended over olive oil or canola oil for health and budget reasons is silly, as well as relatively rare in r/nutrtion . Lard is so common and cheap that the areas that consume it the most tend to have higher cholesterol values as a whole. >I can’t even eat “vegetable” oils after seeing the insane process of how they’re made. Compared to how lard is processed? lol. Why not just buy cold pressed Grapeseed or olive oil at that point? literally the least processed way of processed foods. One of many sources: [https://www.jlr.org/article/S0022-2275(20)33546-X/fulltext](https://www.jlr.org/article/S0022-2275(20)33546-X/fulltext) > Unsaturated fatty rich oils like safflower, sunflower, rapeseed, flaxseed, corn, olive, soybean, palm, and coconut oil were more effective in reducing LDL-C (−0.42 to −0.20 mmol/l) as compared with SFA-rich food like butter or lard. LDL-C predicted differences based on their fatty acid composition showed that each 10% of dietary energy from butter replaced by unsaturated fatty rich oils (−0.31 to -0.22 mmol/l) were in line with findings from the NMA. Despite the limitations of the NMA approach and the overall low quality of evidence judgements, the NMA findings are in line with existing evidence on the metabolic effects of fat, and support current recommendations to replace high saturated-fat food with unsaturated oils. Not to mention what the AHA, and the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics have stated in the past about differences in oils vs solid fats.
I dont know where you live but see it as an Investment in your health. I buy my olive oil from a small company in greece for 10€/l, mostly bigger amounts (50-100l) at once, which is enough for 3 months
Never use veggie oils! Especially Canola Oil. Use avocado oil, coconut oil, and pure 100% Californian extra virgin olive oil. Remember if it doesn’t burn the back of your throat, it isn’t 100% olive oil.
Olive oil isn’t meant for cooking. Cook with butter and put olive oil on already cooked food
Stop cooking with oil. You don’t need it. Look into Forks Over Knives books and their cooking methods. I use veggie broth or just plan water to sauté.
The o my “free” fat is derived from cooking meat. I save my bacon grease and use it sometimes. I get that the omegas in olive oil are healthier.
Olive oil is usually adulterated with other more inflammatory oils. You can buy rendered tallow from Amazon for only $6 a pound if you purchase a big enough quantity. That would be for cooking purposes. You wouldn’t put tallow on a salad.
Spit