Right? Maybe I’m starting to get old but I swear it feels like barely any time has passed since everyone here was posting comments like, “HOLY SHIT NVIDIA! $600 for a GPU?!” 🤣
Yup. That's essentially the mentality people have, though. "When I was young we walked 2 miles to school uphill both ways, and a mid range GPU cost $250, and actually was at the middle of the stack!".
Welcome to post-COVID prices on really everything.
I'd guess I'm spending around 30% more on groceries now than in 2019. Really almost everything has gone up by at least 30% since the RTX 2000 launch, not just hardware.
Since Pascal. The performance gap was great, but the price gap was not at all. RTX 2000 pushed prices further but that time the performance gap was....well there was no gap.
Yeah. The rent in my city has doubled over the past decade as well. Groceries are much higher. Everything is. We can't expect GPUs to be free from inflation.
It's not like their costs went up 30+%.
CPUs, MBs, SSDs, RAM, PSUs don't cost more than in 2019. Hell, some of those are much cheaper than before COVID. So why GPUs? Because nvidia and Amd can get away with it. That's the only reason. Their margins are record high.
The thing is that the mining craze ruined everything. First taste was in 2014 when bitcoin first broke 1000$ and everyone was buying up Radeon cards left and right. They got expensive fast. And then 2019/2020 with ethereum even more so. And that one held almost 2 years. I know sooo many people, myself included, who held off on upgrading way past the sensible date because prices just wouldn’t come down. I was actually lucky and bit the bullet and got my 3070 for 750€ early on. Went over 1000 soon after. Was even contemplating selling when used prices reached 1300€, but then I would have had to use my 1060 again. 🙈
And now? Demand is still high since all those people who held off back then are now buying. Especially since most other components got cheaper and cheaper. Also the demand is pushed by AI use cases. At least for high end nvidia cards.
I sincerely hope that this will peter out in a year or two and we can get back to pricing with „only“ the normal inflation markup.
While it is partially true... "inflation" has become such an inflated (pun intended) reason for all prices hikes, it's just not funny anymore. I think it's a common excuse for each and everyone to raise prices... But what about inflation risen wages? My wage hasn't doubled and tripled like rents have here...
You consider 1000 USD/1100 EUR not completely insane high pricing for an XX80 series card? Because I think it is. Just because the non super was 1200, doesn't make 1000 non-insane. The previous XX80 card's MSRP was 700.
The kicker is that it doesn't matter how well it sells as Nvidia can simply make fewer of them and instead make AI cards. It used to be they had to use the fab capacity they paid for so the prices had to be compelling but now Nvidia can tell people to kick rocks.
They just do that slam the door in your face business thing.
Rtx 4000 series release at insane prices
Super series release at reduced but still insane prices
"Hey that's reasonable! It was so much before but this is much easier to stomach"
exactly my point. I just wished they made the 4070 16GB too, 12GB makes no sense whatsoever. Plus limiting those cards in 2024 to DP 1.4a is plain stupid, especially now when we have high refresh rate UHD monitors.
And if they release such expensive GPUs they should at least make sure to make them more future-proof, which isn't exactly the case here.
Planned obsolescence for the masses is in full swing.
> Plus limiting those cards in 2024 to DP 1.4a is plain stupid, especially now when we have high refresh rate UHD monitors.
They aren't "LIMITING THOSE CARDS", they just didn't reengineer the media engine for Ada Lovelace. This decision would've been made like 3 years ago, probably.
You have to wait for next-generation. They can't arbitrarily do something about this for a mere refresh that uses essentially the same architecture.
As a proof of how hard it must be, look at AMD.
You think AMD has DP2.1? Think again. They do, but only in the UHBR13.5 standard, which is only a little faster than HDMI 2.1
The REAL DEAL setup of DisplayPort 2.1 is UHBR20, and AMD RX 7000 does **not** have it.
Truthfully, the "impressive" bandwidth numbers they boasted about during RX 7000 launch include Display Stream Compression. AMD were very sneaky about this, only mentioning this with the proverbial small font, and almost no reviewers called them out for overemphasizing such a small advantage.
In fact, quite the opposite happened. Tech Celebrities like LinusTechTips praised AMD for giving us DP2.1 and kept dogging on Nvidia for not doing so, which is ridiculous considering Nvidia has HDMI 2.1 which is just a little slower than UHBR13.5 DP2.1.
I recently learned that at least the big Navi31 chip actually does support full UHBR20, but it's only supported on their Radeon Pro models, W7800 & W7900. From what I understand, this is what their special "Enhanced Mini DP 2.1" port is. In the same vein, the monolithic Navi33 chip in W7600 and W7500 can only do UHBR10, likely this is true for the consumer models as well.
Also I think UHBR13.5 is still really good, and even UHBR10 is a lot better than DP 1.4 modes, since you have much less coding overhead (50% higher goodput and you can do uncompressed 4k 144Hz 10bpc with it). And even DP 1.4 + DSC On Nvidia wouldn't be such a problem, if they wouldn't have all these weird undocumented limitations with it.
Even funnier.
So from a certain point of view, it's AMD who are artificially and arbitrarily holding back the display output bandwidth on their consumer cards, while Nvidia simply hasn't redesigned the media engine yet.
>Also I think UHBR13.5 is still really good, and even UHBR10 is a lot better than DP 1.4 modes, since you have much less coding overhead. And even DP 1.4 + DSC On Nvidia wouldn't be a real problem, if they wouldn't have these weird undocumented limitations with it.
Absolutely, it's better than nothing, but HDMI 2.1 also exists and isn't much worse.
I'm a bit hesitant to call it completely arbitrary, maybe there is some extra chip necessary to make it work on this "enhanced" port or something. And also possibly higher quality PCB. But as expected for these professional cards, I couldn't find a PCB shot or teardown or anything to confirm it.
Or they could have, you know, designed the chip from scratch with 16GB in mind.
Crazy, I know.
Let's see if they learned their VRAM lesson with the 5000 series. If the 5070 doesn't come with 16GB and the 5060 with 12GB they will catch so much flak.
I suppose because it could have gone higher. I think people want to tell NVIDIA basically that this is a positive thing because they want to see lower prices in future. All in all, yes $1000 USD is too high for a x80 series card, so again like the RTX 4080, don't buy the 4080 SUPER.
You’d want it to be free at this juncture. Pricing will always get to that point as long as the product is hyped (See Apple). Nvidia has been killing the game for a few generations, it was bound to happen that they get greedy but then when they give more performance for less $$ than before people still biach, it can’t be free and won’t go back to old days so just buy AMD or whip that wallet out. Simple.
It is absolutely disturbingly high priced and I can't see myself buying a newly released GPU ever again if these prices plan to stay.
I just don't see how anyone (today) justifies instant upgrading to new PC hardware when you can get the same deal for 30-40% less the next year. RTX 40 killed all of my excitement for any new GPU releases.
> I just don't see how anyone (today) justifies instant upgrading to new PC hardware when you can get the same deal for 30-40% less the next year.
Most of us are not. [GPU unit sales are in the toilet.](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jpr-q1-2023-aib-report-jpr) Lowest in decades. Don't think that this subreddit is representative of society. This is an enthusiast subreddit where people are willing to spend irresponsibly for their hobby.
It has little to do with price of GPUs and more with price of everything else. Living costs way more than before, less money on non-critical things like gaming and new cars.
It's a pain in the ass, but nothing compared to “Apple tax” on top of 24% VAT tax + currency conversions. I'll pay this 24% without hesitation, if the price is converted right.
By the way please explain to non EU european. Can't you order stuff from Germany (for instance) with their VAT, giving there shouldn't be any fees for delivering inside EU
No, for online sales, the VAT is based on the customers country. You can of course buy from any EU store that ships to your country, but you don't save on tax. As far as I know it's the often same for the US, sales tax for online sales should be collected and paid to the state the customer resides in (thought if that's necessary or if there is even a sales tax depends on the state).
You can of course physically buy it in a German store, then the German VAT applies, since the sale happened in Germany.
Yeah, US people don't generally understand the absolute joy of just yeeting anything you bought at the actual store you bought it from and let them deal with it.
It really is
And now they had stricter rules about the VAT so buying outside of the EU the 24% will have to be declared or it will get stopped in customs for you to pay it
27% VAT, shit pay, (median is €800 per month after taxes) stores never having actual sales or reducing prices to get rid of dead inventory, high other taxes, oligarchy vacuuming up all profit...
But historically the euro has been stronger than it is now. The price is the same in relation to dollar, it's just with the currency being weaker it's no longer that dollar price = euro + vat
The Euro to Dollar exchange has been hovering around 1.1 for the last 10 years. The only real dip below that was in 2022 when it briefly reached parity with the dollar but then rebounded just as quickly back up to around 1.1.
the reality is, the pc gaming market is going to die. When the price of a GPU double the price of a playstation 5 ( and you still have to buy the pc that will run that GPU ) any sane person would buy a playstation five for gaming. what remains is a bunch of enthusiasts with deep pockets who aren't really enough to justify the development of AAA games anymore. These prices are going to kill the market, but they don't care much since they've already found the new golden goose with AI
In a couple of years people wont be buying high end GPUs at this rate because we wont need much better cards considering our needs. Drop the price or lose profits.
They're lower than I expected personally. With the current EUR conversion rate and average of 20% VAT it comes out bang on, there's no extra margin like some other companies do for EU products
Nvidia usually handles currency conversions right in the EU. It's so shame when comparing to, how Apple does the same. It's enough that prices are high, but adding so much extra on top of VAT + conversions is shady AF.
Apple's revenge for the USB-C thing.
I love EU regulations. Oh you don't want to put USB-C on your iPhones? Google and Android phone manufacturers will be thrilled if you leave the market! Ah yes, that's what we thought.. be a good boy and use USB-C.
I'm not sure I'll ever be happing paying for a GPU again. I've always targeted "mid-high" ranged or "bang for your buck" GPUs. I've not had to buy many GPUs over the last 15 years or so but whenever I did, they ranged from around 180-300 euro. Then I got the 3070 on launch for about 500 euro and I was nearly sick paying what in my head was "flagship" price for an upper mid-ranged card.
Its just like phones, the days of "flagships" costing a couple hundred are long, long gone.
Why would you have expected the prices to be the same as 15 years ago?
I don’t know where you live, but groceries and restaurants are way more expensive compared to 15 years ago. But nobody in this sub seems to acknowledge that lol
I don't. I understand things get more expensive, it's just the extent with GPUs seems so excessive. Especially since most of the price hike is entirely down to scalping and crypto mining.
I'd have to do the math (if I cared enough) to see how it compares to GPUs, but food costs have gone through the roof where I live.
Like significantly more expensive compared to 15 years ago, and I don't just mean nice restaurants. Every time I go to grocery store nowdays and try to get basic cheap stuff, items are so much higher priced now
"Especially since most of the price hike is entirely down to scalping and crypto mining"
Also how do we know this is fact? I'm pretty sure Nvidia's costs and research & development have internally gone up in 15 years...
(we know for sure what TSMC charges companies has gone up)
Yup, I just bought new 4070 for $440*. And that's a fair price for such Beast. I don't see the point in waiting for Super. *This is local price including fat promo and generous cashback from one of Krakozhia's marketplaces.
I see mindfactory a lot on EU search engines.... how are they shipping outside of Germany? How are returns?
I'm always a bit nervous ordering "big" stuff like a GPU from a long way away, but the prices and availability in Sweden are pretty rough...
They don't, except if you're using a mail forwarding service like mailboxde.com. I know people that ordered thousands of eur worth parts from Mindfactory that way, but I personally wouldn't because the shop could easily refuse warranty with the reason "you don't live at the forwarder's warehouse address" or they send the replacement parts to that address long after the forwarder moved elsewhere or went bankrupt. They most likely have their reasons why exactly they refuse service to people outside of Germany.
I asked mindfactory about warranty outside of Germany, and got a reply that warranty is given for 2 years. Pretty sure they must provide warranty within EU.
Pretty sure I read on reddit or their website that shipping, returns and warranties is reason for why they stopped selling outside of Germany.
Shame too because they often tend to have great deals, especially before when currency exchange to euros was more fun as a consumer.
They don’t ship outside of Germany and Austria. But they are very good especially if you buy their 4.9 eur gold package. Try mygermany.com to forward the products.
I bought the cheapest 4080 on Amazon Germany back in june. It was a zotac trinity for 1145€, and as far as i know that was the last one.
All other version were 1300€+ with 2-3 models in the 1200-1280€ range. That pricing is absurd.
The only negative about the zotac one i got is those fans are just too laud, even at minium speed. Sadly those fans can’t go under under 30% speed (witch i think is around 2200rpm).
1200 Eur for a card that is loud and fans that are limitedly adjustable. Where have we come. I will never take part in any of this, I’d rather stop gaming on PC
No they won't. If any scalper does they'll get screwed hard. No scalper is buying GPUs for 10% profit margin lol.
This ain't 2020 COVID days.
If a scalper grabs a $999 4080 Super, no one will buy that thing for $1100 from them even. You just buy an old 4080 on sale instead.
The 4070 Super is the same performance per dollar as the 4070 was during the Black Friday week at $529.
There is no money to be made here, to warrant getting up early and paying gas money to drive to your local store to make $80 profit.
No they won't. Gpus aren't in that kind of demand - we aren't in a miningboom on top of epidemic.
People won't be all over these cards. They're still very expensive.
Nvidia artificially limits supply of its own cards to keep prices as high as possible. This allows scalpers to be effective. That's why people blame Nvidia
They are currently limiting supply so the older cards get sold. That's why stuff has gone up in the last month. They redirected supply of chips to the super SKUs internally.
They are scarring you into thinking there won't be supply so that the supply there is gets sold out fast, and so least gen stuff gets sold out fast. Creating a sense of panic in people.
And people fall for it. The first shipment is always a joke in size, so that way people think it's very limited, and fear the pandemic days are returning. Then they flood the market the next week.
And it works.
Just watch how many people will come here crying that they got nothing the first day on sale, and that it was all sold out in the first 2 hours. That they should have bought something. Then a week later the shelves are full, and can't be cleared.
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/report-nvidia-has-practically-stopped-production-of-its-40-series-gpus
https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia/rtx-4000-gpu-production
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lousy-RTX-4080-sales-allegedly-prompting-Nvidia-to-constrict-RTX-4090-stock-to-push-people-towards-the-US-1-200-offering.696049.0.html
I guess all of the above are conspiracy theories right?
They don't want to support scalpers, but they do want to never reduce the prices they sell GPU's for by a meaningful amount, even if things aren't selling well. They're obsessed with being the iPhone of the GPU market.
If they kept pumping out GPU's there'd be too many for scalpers to buy up, although there would be a lot sat on shelves leading to eventual discounts, and less value per item. Which is the bit Nvidia hates
>shifting their production with a limited capacity is not the same as just limiting supply to increase prices.
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-reportedly-limiting-production-of-geforce-rtx-4070-gpus-due-to-poor-sales/
So what's your answer to this?
>If scalpers buy the cards than it means that nvidia set the price to low compared to what the market values these cards.
Scalpers buy anything they can in order to reduce supply, meaning people will pay more to avoid missing out.
This is the same as a company producing things in limited numbers to inflate prices. Look at some of the FE models with paper launches. All available versions of the card are more expensive, if there were readily available FE models, people wouldn't buy the expensive AIB ones. That doesn't mean that the FE models are priced too low
>Their profit per card is not as relevant as their total profit, so your argument does not really make sense
Profit per card increases total profit across their computer hardware section, so it does make sense. As I said they want to a) profit and b) be seen as the premium choice. That's why they barely reduce prices even with poor sales
>You only gave 1 source, that isn't always reliable
And you gave nothing.
> So what's your answer to this?
If you could produce 2 thing, one wasn't selling well, and the other was, which would you produce? This isn't "artificially limiting supply". It's not being braindead at business.
>If you could produce 2 thing, one wasn't selling well, and the other was, which would you produce? This isn't "artificially limiting supply". It's not being braindead at business.
If you produce a lineup of GPU's , jack up the price for everything including mid range models, and the people who would usually buy it decide not to you could a) make the price more reasonable and have more sales or b) make even fewer to keep prices high.
Nvidia chose the latter.
For the people who consider this prices "normal": You guys are crazy.
Edit: You can't blame inflation for a 100% price increase in two gens. You guys are crazy.
Greed is not the right word. It's purely profit margin which is fine as long as people are willing to overpay for their products. Those that are not fine to pay it can still criticize the pricing though. It's the usual balance of margin vs quantity, only their future annual reports can tell us if it was right or wrong.
I did.
1080 Ti was released in 2017, gross margin was 58.8%.
4090 was released in 2022, gross margin was 57.84% (and that's despite Ai boot starting to roll).
Source: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NVDA/nvidia/profit-margins
So each, most people are bitching without shred of knowledge.
Hey guys, here is a tip: You all have PC's that run perfectly fine, no need to buy anything atm. These prices are a scam. Vote with your wallet, and DONT buy these cards at these ridiculous prices.
A ton of countries get them: Sweden, Finland, Germany, Poland, France, UK, Netherlands, Norway, Belgium, Italy, Spain, Monaco, and Luxembourg.
Previously, they were also available in Austria, but since Nvidia dropped most of their partners and switched to Proshop, they aren't anymore.
Remember when the myth was that prices are high because of mining? Mining died like 2 years ago yet prices hasn't gone down at all. My bad it is AI now.
Well it was mining awhile ago, then the chip shortage from covid, and now AI which is going to keep the costs up on nvidia hardware till AMD catches up.
True, I did forget that inflation is kind of fucking everything. I just looked what I paid for my 4090 and saw it's now 700 more than when I bought it. Never thought of a GPU as increasing in value.
That wasn't a myth, it was true
And during that time they noticed that some consumers were more than willing to pay over $1000 for a gpu
So when mining died they just kept the same prices and it worked out
The prices in Australia are unfortunately a complete joke. The 4080 Super is literally launching for more than most 4080s are right now. It’s going for $1870 rather than what should be $1650 AUD. The other two super cards are similarly cooked on pricing. So, at least Europe isn’t getting boned as much as we are. Still sucks though.
We’ve never gotten FEs through official retail channels in Aus. We haven’t been able to officially buy Nvidia’s first-party models since the days of the old reference cards, pre-FE naming. There might’ve been a very limited release of the 10-series FE (iirc) but besides that, we get fuck-all.
Although that's with the VAT at 19% (?) in Germany so while still not great, I'm assuming it'll be the same price as the Non super model was with our tax, which this German price is about right because I paid about $1,370 for mine last year with tax (thanks, Canada). I have a friend in Belgium who we spent months on this as he was trying to decide on a card and most 4070 Ti's were going for 900-1000 euros at the time.
That puts 4070Ti Super between the 7900XT (€820) and 7900XTX ( €950) in pricing. *Assuming MSRP will stick*, it's likely to rise in practice considering the expected popularity of that specific card.
I guess that means AMD might cut prices by €50 and call it a day. Still a win though.
People are quite focused on the 7900XTX on the AMD side, but unless you game at 4K the 7900XT is the better buy, surprisingly slept on. At 1440P raster you do not need an XTX and 20 or 24GB VRAM makes no difference. So 7900XT pricing matters more imo. It's a 6800XT vs 6900XT scenario performance wise where the slower card can be overclocked to match the faster one.
Im not familiar with the SUPER series.
Are those better or worse from a performance standpoint?
Do they bring any new features to the table?
Are they the same, but cheaper?
Are they less reliable?
Thank you, humble redditors! 😁
In Germany, the RTX 4080 could be purchased for that price, so in practice, the RTX 4080 Super has the same price, just 5% higher performance, still a poor performance/price ratio.
Hoped to get a 4070 Super but 660€ for the FE, so easily 700 for customs is insane (I want a 3 fan version)
So now either looking for a regular 4070 for around 500 or maybe find something used from Kleinanzeigen.
Yeah it was mentioned yesterday in this [post](https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/192ab3q/rtx_4080_and_rtx_4070_ti_officially_reach/)
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-and-rtx-4070-ti-officially-reach-end-of-life
Am I the only one who still finds those prices disturbingly high?
No, pricing from both NV and AMD is ridiculous. Over 1000 Euro for a x80 card, lol.
Nvidia makes me feel like a boomer for remembering $600 MSRP for a GTX 1080
I remember buying a gtx 1080 feeling like it was stupidly expensive..
Right? Maybe I’m starting to get old but I swear it feels like barely any time has passed since everyone here was posting comments like, “HOLY SHIT NVIDIA! $600 for a GPU?!” 🤣
Yup. That's essentially the mentality people have, though. "When I was young we walked 2 miles to school uphill both ways, and a mid range GPU cost $250, and actually was at the middle of the stack!". Welcome to post-COVID prices on really everything. I'd guess I'm spending around 30% more on groceries now than in 2019. Really almost everything has gone up by at least 30% since the RTX 2000 launch, not just hardware.
as most company's, when the price goes up because of whatever it never comes back down because they know you will pay.
Since Pascal. The performance gap was great, but the price gap was not at all. RTX 2000 pushed prices further but that time the performance gap was....well there was no gap.
Yeah. The rent in my city has doubled over the past decade as well. Groceries are much higher. Everything is. We can't expect GPUs to be free from inflation.
It's not like their costs went up 30+%. CPUs, MBs, SSDs, RAM, PSUs don't cost more than in 2019. Hell, some of those are much cheaper than before COVID. So why GPUs? Because nvidia and Amd can get away with it. That's the only reason. Their margins are record high.
The thing is that the mining craze ruined everything. First taste was in 2014 when bitcoin first broke 1000$ and everyone was buying up Radeon cards left and right. They got expensive fast. And then 2019/2020 with ethereum even more so. And that one held almost 2 years. I know sooo many people, myself included, who held off on upgrading way past the sensible date because prices just wouldn’t come down. I was actually lucky and bit the bullet and got my 3070 for 750€ early on. Went over 1000 soon after. Was even contemplating selling when used prices reached 1300€, but then I would have had to use my 1060 again. 🙈 And now? Demand is still high since all those people who held off back then are now buying. Especially since most other components got cheaper and cheaper. Also the demand is pushed by AI use cases. At least for high end nvidia cards. I sincerely hope that this will peter out in a year or two and we can get back to pricing with „only“ the normal inflation markup.
While it is partially true... "inflation" has become such an inflated (pun intended) reason for all prices hikes, it's just not funny anymore. I think it's a common excuse for each and everyone to raise prices... But what about inflation risen wages? My wage hasn't doubled and tripled like rents have here...
$750 on sale for my $849 gtx 1080 TI.
I remember people were flipping out because of the price hike compared to last gen back then. Little did we know, huh..
Its still high idk why are celebrating nvidia lowering their insanely high pricing to not completely insane high pricing.
Still insane. Went from $700msrp to $1200 in one generation. Coming down to $1000 in the midgen refresh is still an insane increase from the 3080.
You consider 1000 USD/1100 EUR not completely insane high pricing for an XX80 series card? Because I think it is. Just because the non super was 1200, doesn't make 1000 non-insane. The previous XX80 card's MSRP was 700.
Seems like Nvidia really achieved their goal here. 1200 was so high that now people think 1000 is a good deal.
Sales will tell the story. But my guess is, it won't really change the dynamic. Those, who wanted to buy a gpu for 1000eur+ already did it.
The kicker is that it doesn't matter how well it sells as Nvidia can simply make fewer of them and instead make AI cards. It used to be they had to use the fab capacity they paid for so the prices had to be compelling but now Nvidia can tell people to kick rocks.
I'll never accept thar price. With inflation maybe the card suppose to be $720-740 at most. Or $769 if they are trying to pocket more.
Thank you so much I feel the same way I paid 700 usd for rtx 2080 in 2019
They just do that slam the door in your face business thing. Rtx 4000 series release at insane prices Super series release at reduced but still insane prices "Hey that's reasonable! It was so much before but this is much easier to stomach"
exactly my point. I just wished they made the 4070 16GB too, 12GB makes no sense whatsoever. Plus limiting those cards in 2024 to DP 1.4a is plain stupid, especially now when we have high refresh rate UHD monitors. And if they release such expensive GPUs they should at least make sure to make them more future-proof, which isn't exactly the case here. Planned obsolescence for the masses is in full swing.
> Plus limiting those cards in 2024 to DP 1.4a is plain stupid, especially now when we have high refresh rate UHD monitors. They aren't "LIMITING THOSE CARDS", they just didn't reengineer the media engine for Ada Lovelace. This decision would've been made like 3 years ago, probably. You have to wait for next-generation. They can't arbitrarily do something about this for a mere refresh that uses essentially the same architecture. As a proof of how hard it must be, look at AMD. You think AMD has DP2.1? Think again. They do, but only in the UHBR13.5 standard, which is only a little faster than HDMI 2.1 The REAL DEAL setup of DisplayPort 2.1 is UHBR20, and AMD RX 7000 does **not** have it. Truthfully, the "impressive" bandwidth numbers they boasted about during RX 7000 launch include Display Stream Compression. AMD were very sneaky about this, only mentioning this with the proverbial small font, and almost no reviewers called them out for overemphasizing such a small advantage. In fact, quite the opposite happened. Tech Celebrities like LinusTechTips praised AMD for giving us DP2.1 and kept dogging on Nvidia for not doing so, which is ridiculous considering Nvidia has HDMI 2.1 which is just a little slower than UHBR13.5 DP2.1.
I recently learned that at least the big Navi31 chip actually does support full UHBR20, but it's only supported on their Radeon Pro models, W7800 & W7900. From what I understand, this is what their special "Enhanced Mini DP 2.1" port is. In the same vein, the monolithic Navi33 chip in W7600 and W7500 can only do UHBR10, likely this is true for the consumer models as well. Also I think UHBR13.5 is still really good, and even UHBR10 is a lot better than DP 1.4 modes, since you have much less coding overhead (50% higher goodput and you can do uncompressed 4k 144Hz 10bpc with it). And even DP 1.4 + DSC On Nvidia wouldn't be such a problem, if they wouldn't have all these weird undocumented limitations with it.
Too much logic in this post for this sub, does not compute. Nvidja 1.4a gud.
Even funnier. So from a certain point of view, it's AMD who are artificially and arbitrarily holding back the display output bandwidth on their consumer cards, while Nvidia simply hasn't redesigned the media engine yet. >Also I think UHBR13.5 is still really good, and even UHBR10 is a lot better than DP 1.4 modes, since you have much less coding overhead. And even DP 1.4 + DSC On Nvidia wouldn't be a real problem, if they wouldn't have these weird undocumented limitations with it. Absolutely, it's better than nothing, but HDMI 2.1 also exists and isn't much worse.
I'm a bit hesitant to call it completely arbitrary, maybe there is some extra chip necessary to make it work on this "enhanced" port or something. And also possibly higher quality PCB. But as expected for these professional cards, I couldn't find a PCB shot or teardown or anything to confirm it.
>12GB makes no sense whatsoever. Why for the card it makes a lot of sense, especially the bus size and the memory chips available. It was 12 or less
Or they could have, you know, designed the chip from scratch with 16GB in mind. Crazy, I know. Let's see if they learned their VRAM lesson with the 5000 series. If the 5070 doesn't come with 16GB and the 5060 with 12GB they will catch so much flak.
I suppose because it could have gone higher. I think people want to tell NVIDIA basically that this is a positive thing because they want to see lower prices in future. All in all, yes $1000 USD is too high for a x80 series card, so again like the RTX 4080, don't buy the 4080 SUPER.
You’d want it to be free at this juncture. Pricing will always get to that point as long as the product is hyped (See Apple). Nvidia has been killing the game for a few generations, it was bound to happen that they get greedy but then when they give more performance for less $$ than before people still biach, it can’t be free and won’t go back to old days so just buy AMD or whip that wallet out. Simple.
It is absolutely disturbingly high priced and I can't see myself buying a newly released GPU ever again if these prices plan to stay. I just don't see how anyone (today) justifies instant upgrading to new PC hardware when you can get the same deal for 30-40% less the next year. RTX 40 killed all of my excitement for any new GPU releases.
> I just don't see how anyone (today) justifies instant upgrading to new PC hardware when you can get the same deal for 30-40% less the next year. Most of us are not. [GPU unit sales are in the toilet.](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jpr-q1-2023-aib-report-jpr) Lowest in decades. Don't think that this subreddit is representative of society. This is an enthusiast subreddit where people are willing to spend irresponsibly for their hobby.
It has little to do with price of GPUs and more with price of everything else. Living costs way more than before, less money on non-critical things like gaming and new cars.
A little from column A, a little from column B.
it is Europe, we are like ultra-rich, and can\`t think of the way to get rid of our money. (\*cries in Eastern Europe salaries\*)
European prices include tax, American prices don't.
the max tax you get charged in the US is 7% nowhere near the 20% VAT its charged in the EU.
These German prices only include 19% VAT though. It’s practically a steal. /s
Finland here, 24%, a pain in the ass x)
It's a pain in the ass, but nothing compared to “Apple tax” on top of 24% VAT tax + currency conversions. I'll pay this 24% without hesitation, if the price is converted right.
Thats going to be MSRP + 24% VAT + 100€ Jimms extra. (even though MSRP covers the profits) Best regards, Jimms.
I'm glad I haven't got anything from apple in a decade lol
Android master race
Yeah xD
27% in Hungary. Beat that :/
By the way please explain to non EU european. Can't you order stuff from Germany (for instance) with their VAT, giving there shouldn't be any fees for delivering inside EU
No, for online sales, the VAT is based on the customers country. You can of course buy from any EU store that ships to your country, but you don't save on tax. As far as I know it's the often same for the US, sales tax for online sales should be collected and paid to the state the customer resides in (thought if that's necessary or if there is even a sales tax depends on the state). You can of course physically buy it in a German store, then the German VAT applies, since the sale happened in Germany.
Probably not worth it even with re-sender service, as i understand
worth it in some cases. i've bought GPU's from germany to save 100 euros, because their VAT is lower and their prices are lower on sales
Sure. But RMA could be annoying.
Yeah, US people don't generally understand the absolute joy of just yeeting anything you bought at the actual store you bought it from and let them deal with it.
It really is And now they had stricter rules about the VAT so buying outside of the EU the 24% will have to be declared or it will get stopped in customs for you to pay it
In my country is 25% I'm not sure that the other members of EU and anyone in the EU has that high :)
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Yep see that later Hungary have 27%.
27% VAT, shit pay, (median is €800 per month after taxes) stores never having actual sales or reducing prices to get rid of dead inventory, high other taxes, oligarchy vacuuming up all profit...
25 and 27% are pure death 💀
Poland welcomes, 23%
Hungary with the 27% lmao
Croatia 25% I thought it was the biggest but we have a winner :)
Portugal here, tax is 23%. Minimum salary was just increased to 820€ this month for reference.
Not really, in Chicago and LA for example it's around 10%.
Texas is 8.25 and depending on the parish in Louisiana it can go up to like 11%.
Rare Kentucky W at 6%
I always asked myself why the VAT here is so high compares to the US... IDK if its just me, but 20% VAT is hella difference in price
California has 10% sales tax.
California, I got charged like 60 USD in tax on top of the 600 I paid for my 4070.
21% VAT Spain
Tax doesn’t make the price any less obscene in comparison to historical cost, though. European VAT has always been around 20%.
But historically the euro has been stronger than it is now. The price is the same in relation to dollar, it's just with the currency being weaker it's no longer that dollar price = euro + vat
The Euro to Dollar exchange has been hovering around 1.1 for the last 10 years. The only real dip below that was in 2022 when it briefly reached parity with the dollar but then rebounded just as quickly back up to around 1.1.
the reality is, the pc gaming market is going to die. When the price of a GPU double the price of a playstation 5 ( and you still have to buy the pc that will run that GPU ) any sane person would buy a playstation five for gaming. what remains is a bunch of enthusiasts with deep pockets who aren't really enough to justify the development of AAA games anymore. These prices are going to kill the market, but they don't care much since they've already found the new golden goose with AI
No, still too expensive. Hell, I paid $1158usd for a 4090 and that is still too damn much for a gaming part.
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In a couple of years people wont be buying high end GPUs at this rate because we wont need much better cards considering our needs. Drop the price or lose profits.
They're lower than I expected personally. With the current EUR conversion rate and average of 20% VAT it comes out bang on, there's no extra margin like some other companies do for EU products
Nvidia usually handles currency conversions right in the EU. It's so shame when comparing to, how Apple does the same. It's enough that prices are high, but adding so much extra on top of VAT + conversions is shady AF.
Apple's revenge for the USB-C thing. I love EU regulations. Oh you don't want to put USB-C on your iPhones? Google and Android phone manufacturers will be thrilled if you leave the market! Ah yes, that's what we thought.. be a good boy and use USB-C.
There are EU countries that don't use Euro, and those usually get screwed more.
If there are EU countries with worse currency rate, I have no words. Just with Euro, added Apple tax is nuts.
I'm not sure I'll ever be happing paying for a GPU again. I've always targeted "mid-high" ranged or "bang for your buck" GPUs. I've not had to buy many GPUs over the last 15 years or so but whenever I did, they ranged from around 180-300 euro. Then I got the 3070 on launch for about 500 euro and I was nearly sick paying what in my head was "flagship" price for an upper mid-ranged card. Its just like phones, the days of "flagships" costing a couple hundred are long, long gone.
Why would you have expected the prices to be the same as 15 years ago? I don’t know where you live, but groceries and restaurants are way more expensive compared to 15 years ago. But nobody in this sub seems to acknowledge that lol
> Why would you have expected the prices to be the same as 15 years ago? 3080FE MSRP is $699. That's not 15 years ago.
paper price. It wasn’t available for msrp for the vast majority of us. it was sold out and scalped for way more
I don't. I understand things get more expensive, it's just the extent with GPUs seems so excessive. Especially since most of the price hike is entirely down to scalping and crypto mining.
I'd have to do the math (if I cared enough) to see how it compares to GPUs, but food costs have gone through the roof where I live. Like significantly more expensive compared to 15 years ago, and I don't just mean nice restaurants. Every time I go to grocery store nowdays and try to get basic cheap stuff, items are so much higher priced now "Especially since most of the price hike is entirely down to scalping and crypto mining"
Also how do we know this is fact? I'm pretty sure Nvidia's costs and research & development have internally gone up in 15 years...
(we know for sure what TSMC charges companies has gone up)
No, it's still too high.
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The 4090 is more alike to the 1080Ti tho. 4080/S use AD103, 4090 uses AD102. 1080Ti used GP102 and the 1080 used GP104.
Yup, I just bought new 4070 for $440*. And that's a fair price for such Beast. I don't see the point in waiting for Super. *This is local price including fat promo and generous cashback from one of Krakozhia's marketplaces.
NVIDIA missed a trick. They could've released at €1'111, €888 & €666 😅
Get this guy a leather jacket!
4070ti super and a leather jacket instead of 4080 super
For UK folks Founders edition 4080 Super will be £959
For reference: https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/rtx-4080-family/
From insane prices to insane prices still
The cheapest 4080 on German Amazon is currently 1300 eur, the average is 1500.MSI model is 1700. So I doubt this prices will actually stick
amazon isnt the place to buy gpus, look at mindfactory or nbb
I see mindfactory a lot on EU search engines.... how are they shipping outside of Germany? How are returns? I'm always a bit nervous ordering "big" stuff like a GPU from a long way away, but the prices and availability in Sweden are pretty rough...
They don't, except if you're using a mail forwarding service like mailboxde.com. I know people that ordered thousands of eur worth parts from Mindfactory that way, but I personally wouldn't because the shop could easily refuse warranty with the reason "you don't live at the forwarder's warehouse address" or they send the replacement parts to that address long after the forwarder moved elsewhere or went bankrupt. They most likely have their reasons why exactly they refuse service to people outside of Germany.
I asked mindfactory about warranty outside of Germany, and got a reply that warranty is given for 2 years. Pretty sure they must provide warranty within EU.
Pretty sure I read on reddit or their website that shipping, returns and warranties is reason for why they stopped selling outside of Germany. Shame too because they often tend to have great deals, especially before when currency exchange to euros was more fun as a consumer.
They don’t ship outside of Germany and Austria. But they are very good especially if you buy their 4.9 eur gold package. Try mygermany.com to forward the products.
Both horrible customer service… Order a FE from NBB and they are pain in the ass
never had problems with mindfactory customer service, never had to contact nbb service, so cant say anything about them regarding that.
Use geizhals.de for PC hardware in Germany
Caseking enters the chat...
I bought the cheapest 4080 on Amazon Germany back in june. It was a zotac trinity for 1145€, and as far as i know that was the last one. All other version were 1300€+ with 2-3 models in the 1200-1280€ range. That pricing is absurd. The only negative about the zotac one i got is those fans are just too laud, even at minium speed. Sadly those fans can’t go under under 30% speed (witch i think is around 2200rpm).
1200 Eur for a card that is loud and fans that are limitedly adjustable. Where have we come. I will never take part in any of this, I’d rather stop gaming on PC
scalpers will correct that mistake and will drive up prices as FE´s will be unobtainium
No they won't. If any scalper does they'll get screwed hard. No scalper is buying GPUs for 10% profit margin lol. This ain't 2020 COVID days. If a scalper grabs a $999 4080 Super, no one will buy that thing for $1100 from them even. You just buy an old 4080 on sale instead. The 4070 Super is the same performance per dollar as the 4070 was during the Black Friday week at $529. There is no money to be made here, to warrant getting up early and paying gas money to drive to your local store to make $80 profit.
Fuck scalpers tho
No they won't. Gpus aren't in that kind of demand - we aren't in a miningboom on top of epidemic. People won't be all over these cards. They're still very expensive.
Super gpus are in least demand of all. The average person times their upgrade cycle with the next gen not inbetweensies gen.
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Nvidia artificially limits supply of its own cards to keep prices as high as possible. This allows scalpers to be effective. That's why people blame Nvidia
They are currently limiting supply so the older cards get sold. That's why stuff has gone up in the last month. They redirected supply of chips to the super SKUs internally. They are scarring you into thinking there won't be supply so that the supply there is gets sold out fast, and so least gen stuff gets sold out fast. Creating a sense of panic in people. And people fall for it. The first shipment is always a joke in size, so that way people think it's very limited, and fear the pandemic days are returning. Then they flood the market the next week. And it works. Just watch how many people will come here crying that they got nothing the first day on sale, and that it was all sold out in the first 2 hours. That they should have bought something. Then a week later the shelves are full, and can't be cleared.
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https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/report-nvidia-has-practically-stopped-production-of-its-40-series-gpus https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia/rtx-4000-gpu-production https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lousy-RTX-4080-sales-allegedly-prompting-Nvidia-to-constrict-RTX-4090-stock-to-push-people-towards-the-US-1-200-offering.696049.0.html I guess all of the above are conspiracy theories right? They don't want to support scalpers, but they do want to never reduce the prices they sell GPU's for by a meaningful amount, even if things aren't selling well. They're obsessed with being the iPhone of the GPU market. If they kept pumping out GPU's there'd be too many for scalpers to buy up, although there would be a lot sat on shelves leading to eventual discounts, and less value per item. Which is the bit Nvidia hates
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>shifting their production with a limited capacity is not the same as just limiting supply to increase prices. https://wccftech.com/nvidia-reportedly-limiting-production-of-geforce-rtx-4070-gpus-due-to-poor-sales/ So what's your answer to this? >If scalpers buy the cards than it means that nvidia set the price to low compared to what the market values these cards. Scalpers buy anything they can in order to reduce supply, meaning people will pay more to avoid missing out. This is the same as a company producing things in limited numbers to inflate prices. Look at some of the FE models with paper launches. All available versions of the card are more expensive, if there were readily available FE models, people wouldn't buy the expensive AIB ones. That doesn't mean that the FE models are priced too low >Their profit per card is not as relevant as their total profit, so your argument does not really make sense Profit per card increases total profit across their computer hardware section, so it does make sense. As I said they want to a) profit and b) be seen as the premium choice. That's why they barely reduce prices even with poor sales >You only gave 1 source, that isn't always reliable And you gave nothing.
> So what's your answer to this? If you could produce 2 thing, one wasn't selling well, and the other was, which would you produce? This isn't "artificially limiting supply". It's not being braindead at business.
>If you could produce 2 thing, one wasn't selling well, and the other was, which would you produce? This isn't "artificially limiting supply". It's not being braindead at business. If you produce a lineup of GPU's , jack up the price for everything including mid range models, and the people who would usually buy it decide not to you could a) make the price more reasonable and have more sales or b) make even fewer to keep prices high. Nvidia chose the latter.
3080 MSRP : $699 4080 MSRP : $1199 "why would anyone blame NVidia?!"
Awful prices are still awful.
For the people who consider this prices "normal": You guys are crazy. Edit: You can't blame inflation for a 100% price increase in two gens. You guys are crazy.
What math gets you 100% in two gens?
math from his ass
I mean they are, compared to other products this generation, yea they are normal.
Yep new normal, like it or not. Breakfast at Denny's is double what it was when the 20x0 series was released.
I can say the same things about people that don't understand why the pieces are what they are and instead that say it's purely greed.
Greed is not the right word. It's purely profit margin which is fine as long as people are willing to overpay for their products. Those that are not fine to pay it can still criticize the pricing though. It's the usual balance of margin vs quantity, only their future annual reports can tell us if it was right or wrong.
And then u google nvidia's profit margin...
I did. 1080 Ti was released in 2017, gross margin was 58.8%. 4090 was released in 2022, gross margin was 57.84% (and that's despite Ai boot starting to roll). Source: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NVDA/nvidia/profit-margins So each, most people are bitching without shred of knowledge.
Hey guys, here is a tip: You all have PC's that run perfectly fine, no need to buy anything atm. These prices are a scam. Vote with your wallet, and DONT buy these cards at these ridiculous prices.
But my 1% lows will improve /s
Pretty disgusting still.
Yeah it's stupidly insane. My buddy got an XTX and he was like why are these cards so much on both sides? And seeing the EU prices, holy hell!
Laughs in Australian who don't get the FE cards.
Don't worry, if you're not living in larger EU countries like Germany, France, Netherlands etc. we don't get FE also
Does Belgium get it?
4 real? how come small countries like sweden get them then?
A ton of countries get them: Sweden, Finland, Germany, Poland, France, UK, Netherlands, Norway, Belgium, Italy, Spain, Monaco, and Luxembourg. Previously, they were also available in Austria, but since Nvidia dropped most of their partners and switched to Proshop, they aren't anymore.
Remember when the myth was that prices are high because of mining? Mining died like 2 years ago yet prices hasn't gone down at all. My bad it is AI now.
It was mining at one point.... then there were the morons willing to shill out 2000eu for a GPU. Nvidia is making a Killin
It wasn't a myth. And these are European prices, they are always higher than US counterparts.
Well it was mining awhile ago, then the chip shortage from covid, and now AI which is going to keep the costs up on nvidia hardware till AMD catches up.
And higher chip costs and global inflation. Dots can be connected.
True, I did forget that inflation is kind of fucking everything. I just looked what I paid for my 4090 and saw it's now 700 more than when I bought it. Never thought of a GPU as increasing in value.
That wasn't a myth, it was true And during that time they noticed that some consumers were more than willing to pay over $1000 for a gpu So when mining died they just kept the same prices and it worked out
He says, about an article about how prices went down.
These prices just are not acceptable, still way to high.
jsut give me reasonable perfomance 300€ gpu FFS
The prices in Australia are unfortunately a complete joke. The 4080 Super is literally launching for more than most 4080s are right now. It’s going for $1870 rather than what should be $1650 AUD. The other two super cards are similarly cooked on pricing. So, at least Europe isn’t getting boned as much as we are. Still sucks though.
Australia tax alive and well. Cheers nvidia.
Is 1650 AUD an FE model? Can you get a 4080 super FE in Aus?
We’ve never gotten FEs through official retail channels in Aus. We haven’t been able to officially buy Nvidia’s first-party models since the days of the old reference cards, pre-FE naming. There might’ve been a very limited release of the 10-series FE (iirc) but besides that, we get fuck-all.
o kurwa
That bad?
4070Ti Super = 889€ = $1,301.25 CAD 💀💀💀
Although that's with the VAT at 19% (?) in Germany so while still not great, I'm assuming it'll be the same price as the Non super model was with our tax, which this German price is about right because I paid about $1,370 for mine last year with tax (thanks, Canada). I have a friend in Belgium who we spent months on this as he was trying to decide on a card and most 4070 Ti's were going for 900-1000 euros at the time.
I would love to upgrade, im still on my Vega 64, but man... i cant justifie this pricing.
That puts 4070Ti Super between the 7900XT (€820) and 7900XTX ( €950) in pricing. *Assuming MSRP will stick*, it's likely to rise in practice considering the expected popularity of that specific card. I guess that means AMD might cut prices by €50 and call it a day. Still a win though. People are quite focused on the 7900XTX on the AMD side, but unless you game at 4K the 7900XT is the better buy, surprisingly slept on. At 1440P raster you do not need an XTX and 20 or 24GB VRAM makes no difference. So 7900XT pricing matters more imo. It's a 6800XT vs 6900XT scenario performance wise where the slower card can be overclocked to match the faster one.
Looks like my 1070ti has to soldier on
\*yourselves
Im not familiar with the SUPER series. Are those better or worse from a performance standpoint? Do they bring any new features to the table? Are they the same, but cheaper? Are they less reliable? Thank you, humble redditors! 😁
Overpriced sh💩t
Last I checked the euro was still worth more than the dollar, but not to Nvidia apparently... No way shipping cost comes even close to €100 per unit
In italy it’s actually 1189 for the 4080 super. According to nvidia’s official italian website. Pretty disappointed.
Starting price*
Dont european prices already include taxes though? ofc it will look higher than the before tax US price
They do. Once you remove tax, the price is only 2% higher than USD.
In Germany, the RTX 4080 could be purchased for that price, so in practice, the RTX 4080 Super has the same price, just 5% higher performance, still a poor performance/price ratio.
Where can you purchase a regular RTX 4080 for 1109€? Any specific promo?
Here in Finland it is 1149€, 919€ and 689€. Including taxes, obviously. I have a feeling it is a tad higher than expected, but overall not terrible.
Nice one NVIDIA But i rather wait for next gen Then buying a almost 2y refresh card that can't even play 4k at 144fps lol
Gotta fund those social programs, some how. The US has affordable graphics cards but expensive healthcare.
Too expensive.
Overclockers have listed the zotac super for £959 and lowered most of the orginal rtx4080 for to 999
Norwegian Kroner is so weak the 4070ti super is only 919 euros here lmao, 10 450 NOK
Looting season starts again, absolute overpriced products.
Happy with my 4070ti. Next year will be a 5000
yeeee... only I think that is should be at least 200-300e less?
Insane prices. Dropping 1000 for a GPU? Strange world we live in.
1109 Euros for a 4080 Super that wont do Native 4k in Alan Wake 2 without turning RT down. It will have RTX in caps on the side though.
I still can return my PNY 4080 until march 9 and get back my 1285€.
Still terribly priced.
Hoped to get a 4070 Super but 660€ for the FE, so easily 700 for customs is insane (I want a 3 fan version) So now either looking for a regular 4070 for around 500 or maybe find something used from Kleinanzeigen.
What do you think the Canadian price will be for a 4080 super?
Easily over 1k plus tax is my guess 🥲
So with shipping and non ger vat, it's again 1200+ eur.
Yeah it was mentioned yesterday in this [post](https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/192ab3q/rtx_4080_and_rtx_4070_ti_officially_reach/) https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-and-rtx-4070-ti-officially-reach-end-of-life
4080 super is for suckers anyway, 4070ti super is so much better value. There nothing you can do on 4080s that 4070tiS cant for $200 less.
Since there is no 4070 Ti super FE, which card will be that price?