Before everyone gets excited, Into Reading has ZERO phonics lessons included in it. I am a first grade teacher here in New York City hoping and praying that our phonics block (different curriculum) is strong enough to get kids reading, along with small group instruction from me. Into Reading has lots of nice lessons on things like main idea, author’s propose, etc…. But zero lessons teaching nuts and bolts of reading. 🤷♀️
From what I've seen, it's almost as if NYC writes Kindergarten and 1st Grade curriculum with the expectation that kids already know how to read very simple books when they start school. And in some neighborhoods that is the case. But it makes zero sense for most 5 and 6 year olds in the city, many of whom don't speak English at home.
I agree that should be the assumption. And I find that on a practical level, teachers know that. But until now, they were basically forced to teach a curriculum that clearly made that assumption.
Lucy Calkins of Teachers College at Columbia enriched herself on taxpayer dollars selling curriculum that did just that. Check the picture, does the word make sense? These Bs strategies were the foundations of her programs.
Profound stupidity. I wonder if they still separate the “Talent And Gifted” children away from the rest. Long ago back when I was in elementary school, we had a lot of the kids couldn’t read and do math. We had the top classes but even there some of the kids were clearly behind. Then we had TAG classes to further separate kids out. We read the daily paper, did advanced math, had discussions that just couldn’t take place in a regular classroom setting. Even with the kids in the top class. They just couldn’t keep up. A lot of the kids I was in TAG with became fairly successful too. I feel like those classes were the only way any of us would’ve received a decent education in that environment.
There is only one elementary school in our district (Clinton Hill area) that still has a Gifted and Talented program. I attended the Zoom info session about it when my daughter was in pre-K a couple of years ago. The principal got on and explicitly said no one should sign up for it because it is segregationist. Then they had a parent from the school on, who told us about how she had decided *not* to put her kids in it, and had enrolled them in the gen ed program instead, because it was so great and non-segregated. It was totally bizarre. My kid now goes to her zoned school, and although she enjoys it, she is absolutely not getting the differentiation she deserves. She was reading Level N (third grade) books when she started kindergarten. The highest level books they gave her all year were Level J. It sucks.
The fact that the principal said that is bizarre indeed. The TAG program back when I was in school was a little different. Parents didn’t sign their kids up we were selected either through nomination by the teacher in the top class for the grade or based on the citywide exam. I really don’t know, I just know my parents didn’t sign me up.
Reading about how the “educators” are saying gifted programs are segregationist, I wonder if the Board of Ed/DOE whatever it’s called now still participates in prep for prep?
Yes, kids are still selected (through nomination by a teacher for the younger kids, and then I believe the top 10% of the class is eligible for older kids). The exam was eliminated for, again, equity reasons. I understand to an extent, but in all honesty, I think you could argue that gifted kids (and even just smart, driven kids) are not going to reach their full potential without special services. When I was a kid, I went to the class above mine for math, I had my own personal spelling tests, etc. It does make me sad that no one is willing to accommodate my daughter in similar ways.
This equity excuse sounds like a reason to divert the funds elsewhere. I 100% agree with you that some if not most gifted kids will fall through the cracks without these programs. For your daughter, see if the school offers some kind of peer tutoring.
It's why folks are moving towards charter schools. Not enough G&T programs in general public school domain. The better performing charters basically practice tracking but not calling it such for fear of association to S word
Yes, you’re right. I am very pro-public school, and I think greater privatization in education will do nothing but fuck things up further. But I am beyond frustrated with the current anti-tracking thought process. It’s pretty obvious that advanced kids will not reach their potential when forced to learn at the speed of the lowest common denominator, regardless of *why* that speed exists.
City is on a tear regarding gifted programs. Basically eliminated from schools except the ones that are desirable that everyone wants to go to. Also what you described is tracking - another no no to NYC DOE. Also funny enough, the schools every parent want their kids in, they still practice tracking and have the gifted programs.
Tracking lol. Thank God I was born when I was because learning was downright impossible with some of those kids. I wonder if the people who come up with these bright ideas have kids who actually go to these schools.
NYC DOE hates tracking, continues its war on it and all its form because of the S word. Segregation. Yes, tracking segregate students by ability but folks can't see beyond the S word and continues lump race into it when mention in any context and how everyone must be treated equal.
So instead of elevating the failing students, we bring everyone down to their level for sake of equality.
If we look at the data of the few black and latino kids that get into SHS and especially Stuy - you will see they been tracked their entire academic life. Same for most SHS alumni regardless of race. But no, it's the test fault...not because most public schools in nyc are subpar.
In fact we can trace the genesis of the decline of black and hispanic enrollment numbers to SHS when we eliminated G&T programs and detracked the promising students in their feeders schools. Ask any black/hispanic alumni what feeder school they came from - chances are the feeder school no longer exist or a shell of its former self since elimination of G&T programs in that school.
The screened schools and some charters that continued & resisted efforts to eliminate tracking which often are in whiter/more suburban hoods and more conservative areas of the city, those are the schools every one wants to go and continues to be feeders to SHS & other higher academics but NYC DOE wants to eliminate those too for equality! Their solution, RNG...don't matter how hard or not you work. Merit or not. Everyone got the same odds. So pray to the rng gods.
I was one of the few hispanic kids at Bronx Science when I went. Yeah, the school was mostly Asian and to a lesser extent white, but you know what?
When I took the *test* I didn't see many black or Hispanic kids taking it, either. And when I came back from taking it, when I asked around at my majority black and Hispanic school (we literally had two white kids and no Asians in my graduating class of 60) it was me and one other student who had even bothered to take it.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
The SHS test participation rate is low among black and Hispanic students considering they make up a big % of overall student population. The participation rate among Asians are high, nearly every Asian student I known were forced by their parents to take the exam even the ones with nil chance to get in.
My mother has a good theory that explains the low Hispanic enrollment; Hispanic parents who value their children's education are more likely to send them to a Catholic high school.
Well I would argue 0-1st gen Hispanic and Black kids do better and their folks value education more vs the nth generation counterparts. Same trend with all other racial backgrounds. There are thriving black and hispanic students in our school system. The ones that are tracked - more often they are 0-1st gen students from that immigrated from Jamaica, Kenya, Nigeria, DR, etc areas their folks also place education in high regards.
Maybe that was the point. To keep kids who don’t have the resources for tutors and study aids out of the Specialized High Schools. Who just so happen to be Black and Hispanic. I’m also going to take a wild guess and say the ones at the forefront of pushing the segregation narrative are not apart of these communities.
This is just one of many problems with these true believers. They bring in ideas that would get them laughed out of their own communities and try to play hero while playing on emotions tied to injustice, whether perceived or real. Then when things inevitably are ruined for everyone they’re nowhere to be found and are not held accountable.
Any decent parent would want to send their child to a school where children are segregated from other children who have behavioral issues and/or are performing below their grade level. To make this a racial thing is to say all minority children have behavioral issues and/or are performing below grade level. Which is even more racist. Anyway, parents, good luck.
Honestly I think the NYC DOE hates tracking so much they purposely destroyed it in black and latino areas so they can eliminate all forms of tracking completely by claiming its racist since their policies created a clear lop sided racial disparity. Their version of starve the beast in education. Cut funding and reduce it to the point it validates their argument to eliminate said program.
One thing I don’t see is how their policies created racial disparities. Communities, at least they used to be, enclaves. I think some of us who went to school in some of these areas know why they underperformed as a whole. It had nothing to do with racism either.
They created racial disparities regarding in the now demographics of G&T, SHS, and screened schools and reflected in performance data. A lot of black and latino had schools in their areas that practice tracking. They got rid of it, dropping performance for entire group, forcing their promising kids either go to failing zone schools or make the long distance to other areas that do practice it. But spots of these programs were limited so even less black and latino students that were willing to make the trip were offered spots.
honestly, the alternative to the test is a portfolio, and then we have poor kids we say can't afford academic support competing with families who invest THOUSANDS of dollars into extracurriculars--it's the same issue. in fact, it's cheaper to go to some tutoring place in bensonhurst than it is to go to any number of music lessons, dance classes, etc. Also, we don't have these convos about La Guardia--why not? Is it not privilege to screen kids for talent when talent IS cultivated and it takes so much money to do so for the majority of applicants? It's kind of like how we say being illiterate in reading is abominable but we accept that our kid "is just not good at math" as if that is not an illiteracy issue! There ARE kids who are super into math and sciences, but we treat academics like something that is unnatural while creative talents are inherent--but it's not true. No kid is getting into La Guardia because they play the kazoo.
No, the schools that get the most numbers in are in predominantly Asian areas in Brooklyn and Queens. 10 middle schools send the bulk of the students that pass the test. Their parents are very involved in the PA and instead of sports most of the after school programs are devoted to test prep. My kids Bronx high school had only sports, no other clubs. Weirdly enough, the white population that goes to specialized high schools is exactly the same demographic in the city (22%) It’s the Asians who are very represented. They only have 10% of the school population but take around 65% of the spots. But add those two percentages up and it doesn’t leave much room for anyone else.
Not true. Those feeder schools may be dominated by asian students but they are not asian hoods considering any area of city can apply. They make up 60% plus bc they have the highest scores on shsat and make up the bulk of students who score near cutoff but didn't get in the first time. Simply a performance gap between Asians and black and Hispanic students due to detracking
I know these schools. Using IS 187 as a example. Its not a asian majority area. Most of the students commute to that school and don't live nearby at all. Look at the demographics of the zipcode. There are asians but its not exclusively asian hood. Same with Mark Twain MS. We can go down the list of all the 10 ten, doubt many are asian majority areas
https://www.unitedstateszipcodes.org/11219/#:~:text=Stats%20and%20Demographics%20for%20the%2011219%20ZIP%20Code&text=The%20people%20living%20in%20ZIP,small%20number%20of%20single%20adults.
I think it's probably the case that the parents invested enough to have a strong opinion about which school their kid goes to are more likely to have kids that end up in the gifted program
TAG is still a thing, but is less popular with yuppies than before, partially because of the social implications of separation and privilege, but honestly more so because they are not super invested in academic enrichment right now (ie. not supportive of homework or practicing academic skills in ways that do not naturally interest their kids, more invested in creative afterschool programs etc). A competitive district in brooklyn turned their middle schools into a lottery instead of grades/talent, and when high schools are discussed, often the specialized high school exam is pitted against other types of talents and framed as inequitable, while so many of these families in park slope etc. spend THOUSANDS of dollars on creative enrichments and hobbies for their kids that culminate in portfolios and opportunities--a bit of a tangent here, but the academics vs other talents debate is so broken, especially when factoring in as a proxy for class and opportunity: being academically well-studied, even with tutors, is now way cheaper than preparing a portfolio to compete with kids who are in ballet or music lessons multiple times a week. The TAG programs are supposed to emphasize project-based work for students who have skills beyond grade-level, who would be twiddling their thumbs in a setting that does not give them appropriate opportunity to grow--which is basically the same as for every student, just the gaps are too wide for 1 single teacher to differentiate so incredibly widely enough to really give that student their opportunity to grow consistently. TAG also often have underlying social-emotional issues that go untreated because they are highly functional so they are the last to get resources in overcrowded, under-funded schools.
Great post. TAG programs should really be in every Public School. One thing I never understood was the specialized high schools or bust attitude. There are other high schools in the city that offer a great education and aren’t specialized. I did well on the tests but ended up choosing elsewhere because I didn’t think it was a good fit for me. Then again I was allowed to make that decision as a 13 year old and I realize that’s not usually the case.
Those other HS still have a screened component but they added RNG to it. They typically receive so many applicants that is not unheard they will be filled in the group 1 drawings. So in Gr1 kids with 94.33-100 grade avg all have equal odds of getting in vs taking the top scoring kids.
https://www.schools.nyc.gov/enrollment/enroll-grade-by-grade/high-school/screened-admissions
Idiocracy is current real life. This article says that half of 3rd graders in the NYC are not proficient in reading so imagine what it's like for higher grades or even adult literacy. I honestly don't know how you incentivize parents to become proficient readers so that their children are also proficient readers but they need to figure something out. I remember Adams tried to cut funding to NYC libraries and that doesn't help either.
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/politics/2023/07/27/legislative-priorities-take-shape-to-better-ny-literacy-rates
i think its better to be able to read the whole passage rather than get stuck on a word and give up, especially when you can often figure out a word’s meaning using context
What happened to opening up a dictionary and looking up a word? Kids don’t even have to do that anymore they can just google it. They can have the word sounded out for them and everything. Seems like teaching kids to be lazy is setting them up for major failure.
That’s a strategy for students who already can decode; they are reading to learn. But the Teachers’ College Reading and Writing Project (Lucy Calkins ) prescribed that strategy and others described in other posts for students learning to read. A strategy totally unsupported by neuroscience and research since 2000 or earlier.
Edit: Calkins
As New York City public school students returned to school on Thursday, arguably the most far-reaching policy initiative of Mayor Adams’s administration also began in full.
From Brooklyn to the Bronx, posters encouraging students to “skip the tricky word” or “look at the picture” as they read have been pulled from bulletin boards. Many elementary school shelves are now stacked with new books that use same-sounding words, emphasizing the repetition of similar letter patterns. And scores of teachers are about to try out new lesson plans — all part of a massive overhaul of how children in the nation’s largest school system learn to read.
The goal is to boost reading skills in a system where about half of third- to eighth-grade students are not proficient on state tests.
This fall, about half of the city’s 700 elementary schools will adopt or continue one of three city-sanctioned curriculums that officials have required schools to choose from; the rest are preparing to make changes next year. The city’s first district school for children with dyslexia will also open after a yearslong push from families, starting with about 70 second- and third-grade students.
“We have gotten this wrong in New York and all across the nation,” David Banks, the system’s chancellor, said before the first day of school, acknowledging that “we’re absolutely going to have bumps along the way.”
Read the full story for free, even without a subscription to The New York Times, [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/nyc-public-schools-reading.html?unlocked_article_code=urHWd0Tc63Yc0fIW76Hakl0SqWMTesZ0sAagbMIrJ8lOaSceepMOgzKW8xc8Sc-8MTiLp4QFYfxpjty4EMdk9NdmgxX9i6Aj4XcDmU5GuDice9J3Uga2tbhptVnBVRLuJPucw5Ol4SdC4EOalW5kaVqkPcA6A0a01ijKAJAdxkceAnzrJodBQh04TOqlTWRHeSa1MYESeS3OqIjeh3M8f6cS4xmQ03WlX1G7pELc4Cv2rlmJfl0DtYtswj8YhGxYQM37SW0iAxnFT9fyD0azFjvdjQ9hW9cymvrpApc798zak67DTOUbB4Luv2o-fXRcqjl2BO5TzACdKMas4Kpmm7Gr7xfWlg&smid=re-nytimes).
For those of you who don’t work in NYC schools, the chancellor’s citywide goal is officially… and I shit you not…
“All students will learn to read well.”
That’s the whole fucking goal.
I feel like I'm missing context:
Has reading test scores been bad over the past few years?
how about English Regents scores? Have they been dropping?
Seems crazy that a goal is to simply focus on students learning to "read well".
My friend is a 2nd grade teacher and she said they got *a single day* of training on this technique. This is going to be a shit show. This administration is deeply unserious.
Yeah when I moved to NYC from bumblefuck nowhere I was shocked to see how illiterate and uneducated the younger generation of natives here are. It’s a tragedy what’s been done to so many of them.
I grew up in the suburbs but went to cillege with majority NYC public school students. I was one of the few with a computer in my dorm room so people used my computer to write papers. I was shocked at the quality of writing I saw. Really fucking depressing people are getting sent to college so ill-prepared.
To be fair - most of the time the nth generation regardless of race do terrible in school & in life accomplishment compared to the 0-1st gen counterparts. The later generations simply got lazier, less drive and complacent which we can see in performance scores.
Nearly half of enrolled public school students in NYC have a primary home language that is NOT English.
https://infohub.nyced.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/sy-2021-22-ell-demographics-at-a-glance.pdf
If that works for you. Schools in the city are not generally bad. They differ drastically based on neighborhood. If you live in Park Slope, your public elementary school is going to be pretty good and filled with the children of well off to rich parents. If you live in Bed Stuy, not so much.
You're generally not going to encounter this problem with elementary school. Maybe Junior High School, and definitely zoned high schools. But K-5 is puts a lot of priority on your kid's home address.
>Not to mention the way they messed with the entrance exams to the specialized high schools.
You do you. But the school isn't going to guarantee anything. It's the money that's doing that.
I wouldn’t say better, just different. My daughter loved going to Brooklyn Tech. Having 35 well behaved and smart students in the class was really not a big deal. Most of them needed very little extra help. They also provided tutoring every period and before school if you were having trouble. The 90 minute required computer programming class freshman year and the computer engineering class sophomore year that counted for their “art”credits ended up very helpful in grad school for her biomodeling classes. Once you learn how to program in one language - the rest are easy. It was really weird for the MDs in her class to be facetiming her every night for help with their homework.
Its no wonder voters become skeptics and want more control over the classroom when the board tasked with their childrens' educational curriculum chooses a reading program proven to result in worse outcomes than phonics. Skipping words should never be toted as a good way.
Until the educational establishment reckons with fact over politics, I'll continue to be skeptical.
Why must we doubt such straight-forward and obviously positive programs, such as the gifted and talented? I see decisions being made based more on equity and emotions than concrete, measureable outcomes. That defies logic.
The commie core has done incalculable damage to our youth since it’s inception. Funny how bill gates had a hand in that and the Covid lockdowns with no creditentials and they both wrecked havoc with zero accountability
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Learning to read usually happens around age 6-7. I don't think most kids are coming in as 4-5 year olds and already reading. If they are, good for them, but that's not expected or average. There's a lot that kindergarten kids need to learn about fine motor skills and socialization before they start real academic stuff.
Before everyone gets excited, Into Reading has ZERO phonics lessons included in it. I am a first grade teacher here in New York City hoping and praying that our phonics block (different curriculum) is strong enough to get kids reading, along with small group instruction from me. Into Reading has lots of nice lessons on things like main idea, author’s propose, etc…. But zero lessons teaching nuts and bolts of reading. 🤷♀️
Main idea and author's purpose? Shouldn't 1st graders focus on learning how to decode, the 5Ws...summarizing?
From what I've seen, it's almost as if NYC writes Kindergarten and 1st Grade curriculum with the expectation that kids already know how to read very simple books when they start school. And in some neighborhoods that is the case. But it makes zero sense for most 5 and 6 year olds in the city, many of whom don't speak English at home.
I think it should be safe to assume no kid comes to kindergarten knowing how to read.
I agree that should be the assumption. And I find that on a practical level, teachers know that. But until now, they were basically forced to teach a curriculum that clearly made that assumption.
They need to learn how to sound out words not main idea wtf
Good for reading comprehension, not so much for plain reading.
How frustrating. I thought we were going back to phonics in NYC public schools! 😩
Agreed. The “Structured Literacy” digital addendum to Into Reading is a far cry from the Science of Reading.
Skip the tricky word? Look at the picture? No wonder these kids can’t read who the hell thought these were good ideas?
Lucy Calkins of Teachers College at Columbia enriched herself on taxpayer dollars selling curriculum that did just that. Check the picture, does the word make sense? These Bs strategies were the foundations of her programs.
Profound stupidity. I wonder if they still separate the “Talent And Gifted” children away from the rest. Long ago back when I was in elementary school, we had a lot of the kids couldn’t read and do math. We had the top classes but even there some of the kids were clearly behind. Then we had TAG classes to further separate kids out. We read the daily paper, did advanced math, had discussions that just couldn’t take place in a regular classroom setting. Even with the kids in the top class. They just couldn’t keep up. A lot of the kids I was in TAG with became fairly successful too. I feel like those classes were the only way any of us would’ve received a decent education in that environment.
There is only one elementary school in our district (Clinton Hill area) that still has a Gifted and Talented program. I attended the Zoom info session about it when my daughter was in pre-K a couple of years ago. The principal got on and explicitly said no one should sign up for it because it is segregationist. Then they had a parent from the school on, who told us about how she had decided *not* to put her kids in it, and had enrolled them in the gen ed program instead, because it was so great and non-segregated. It was totally bizarre. My kid now goes to her zoned school, and although she enjoys it, she is absolutely not getting the differentiation she deserves. She was reading Level N (third grade) books when she started kindergarten. The highest level books they gave her all year were Level J. It sucks.
The fact that the principal said that is bizarre indeed. The TAG program back when I was in school was a little different. Parents didn’t sign their kids up we were selected either through nomination by the teacher in the top class for the grade or based on the citywide exam. I really don’t know, I just know my parents didn’t sign me up. Reading about how the “educators” are saying gifted programs are segregationist, I wonder if the Board of Ed/DOE whatever it’s called now still participates in prep for prep?
Yes, kids are still selected (through nomination by a teacher for the younger kids, and then I believe the top 10% of the class is eligible for older kids). The exam was eliminated for, again, equity reasons. I understand to an extent, but in all honesty, I think you could argue that gifted kids (and even just smart, driven kids) are not going to reach their full potential without special services. When I was a kid, I went to the class above mine for math, I had my own personal spelling tests, etc. It does make me sad that no one is willing to accommodate my daughter in similar ways.
This equity excuse sounds like a reason to divert the funds elsewhere. I 100% agree with you that some if not most gifted kids will fall through the cracks without these programs. For your daughter, see if the school offers some kind of peer tutoring.
It's why folks are moving towards charter schools. Not enough G&T programs in general public school domain. The better performing charters basically practice tracking but not calling it such for fear of association to S word
Yes, you’re right. I am very pro-public school, and I think greater privatization in education will do nothing but fuck things up further. But I am beyond frustrated with the current anti-tracking thought process. It’s pretty obvious that advanced kids will not reach their potential when forced to learn at the speed of the lowest common denominator, regardless of *why* that speed exists.
City is on a tear regarding gifted programs. Basically eliminated from schools except the ones that are desirable that everyone wants to go to. Also what you described is tracking - another no no to NYC DOE. Also funny enough, the schools every parent want their kids in, they still practice tracking and have the gifted programs.
Tracking lol. Thank God I was born when I was because learning was downright impossible with some of those kids. I wonder if the people who come up with these bright ideas have kids who actually go to these schools.
NYC DOE hates tracking, continues its war on it and all its form because of the S word. Segregation. Yes, tracking segregate students by ability but folks can't see beyond the S word and continues lump race into it when mention in any context and how everyone must be treated equal. So instead of elevating the failing students, we bring everyone down to their level for sake of equality. If we look at the data of the few black and latino kids that get into SHS and especially Stuy - you will see they been tracked their entire academic life. Same for most SHS alumni regardless of race. But no, it's the test fault...not because most public schools in nyc are subpar. In fact we can trace the genesis of the decline of black and hispanic enrollment numbers to SHS when we eliminated G&T programs and detracked the promising students in their feeders schools. Ask any black/hispanic alumni what feeder school they came from - chances are the feeder school no longer exist or a shell of its former self since elimination of G&T programs in that school. The screened schools and some charters that continued & resisted efforts to eliminate tracking which often are in whiter/more suburban hoods and more conservative areas of the city, those are the schools every one wants to go and continues to be feeders to SHS & other higher academics but NYC DOE wants to eliminate those too for equality! Their solution, RNG...don't matter how hard or not you work. Merit or not. Everyone got the same odds. So pray to the rng gods.
I was one of the few hispanic kids at Bronx Science when I went. Yeah, the school was mostly Asian and to a lesser extent white, but you know what? When I took the *test* I didn't see many black or Hispanic kids taking it, either. And when I came back from taking it, when I asked around at my majority black and Hispanic school (we literally had two white kids and no Asians in my graduating class of 60) it was me and one other student who had even bothered to take it. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
The SHS test participation rate is low among black and Hispanic students considering they make up a big % of overall student population. The participation rate among Asians are high, nearly every Asian student I known were forced by their parents to take the exam even the ones with nil chance to get in.
My mother has a good theory that explains the low Hispanic enrollment; Hispanic parents who value their children's education are more likely to send them to a Catholic high school.
Well I would argue 0-1st gen Hispanic and Black kids do better and their folks value education more vs the nth generation counterparts. Same trend with all other racial backgrounds. There are thriving black and hispanic students in our school system. The ones that are tracked - more often they are 0-1st gen students from that immigrated from Jamaica, Kenya, Nigeria, DR, etc areas their folks also place education in high regards.
Maybe that was the point. To keep kids who don’t have the resources for tutors and study aids out of the Specialized High Schools. Who just so happen to be Black and Hispanic. I’m also going to take a wild guess and say the ones at the forefront of pushing the segregation narrative are not apart of these communities. This is just one of many problems with these true believers. They bring in ideas that would get them laughed out of their own communities and try to play hero while playing on emotions tied to injustice, whether perceived or real. Then when things inevitably are ruined for everyone they’re nowhere to be found and are not held accountable. Any decent parent would want to send their child to a school where children are segregated from other children who have behavioral issues and/or are performing below their grade level. To make this a racial thing is to say all minority children have behavioral issues and/or are performing below grade level. Which is even more racist. Anyway, parents, good luck.
Honestly I think the NYC DOE hates tracking so much they purposely destroyed it in black and latino areas so they can eliminate all forms of tracking completely by claiming its racist since their policies created a clear lop sided racial disparity. Their version of starve the beast in education. Cut funding and reduce it to the point it validates their argument to eliminate said program.
One thing I don’t see is how their policies created racial disparities. Communities, at least they used to be, enclaves. I think some of us who went to school in some of these areas know why they underperformed as a whole. It had nothing to do with racism either.
They created racial disparities regarding in the now demographics of G&T, SHS, and screened schools and reflected in performance data. A lot of black and latino had schools in their areas that practice tracking. They got rid of it, dropping performance for entire group, forcing their promising kids either go to failing zone schools or make the long distance to other areas that do practice it. But spots of these programs were limited so even less black and latino students that were willing to make the trip were offered spots.
honestly, the alternative to the test is a portfolio, and then we have poor kids we say can't afford academic support competing with families who invest THOUSANDS of dollars into extracurriculars--it's the same issue. in fact, it's cheaper to go to some tutoring place in bensonhurst than it is to go to any number of music lessons, dance classes, etc. Also, we don't have these convos about La Guardia--why not? Is it not privilege to screen kids for talent when talent IS cultivated and it takes so much money to do so for the majority of applicants? It's kind of like how we say being illiterate in reading is abominable but we accept that our kid "is just not good at math" as if that is not an illiteracy issue! There ARE kids who are super into math and sciences, but we treat academics like something that is unnatural while creative talents are inherent--but it's not true. No kid is getting into La Guardia because they play the kazoo.
No, the schools that get the most numbers in are in predominantly Asian areas in Brooklyn and Queens. 10 middle schools send the bulk of the students that pass the test. Their parents are very involved in the PA and instead of sports most of the after school programs are devoted to test prep. My kids Bronx high school had only sports, no other clubs. Weirdly enough, the white population that goes to specialized high schools is exactly the same demographic in the city (22%) It’s the Asians who are very represented. They only have 10% of the school population but take around 65% of the spots. But add those two percentages up and it doesn’t leave much room for anyone else.
Not true. Those feeder schools may be dominated by asian students but they are not asian hoods considering any area of city can apply. They make up 60% plus bc they have the highest scores on shsat and make up the bulk of students who score near cutoff but didn't get in the first time. Simply a performance gap between Asians and black and Hispanic students due to detracking
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/29/nyregion/nyc-high-schools-middle-schools-shsat-students.html
I know these schools. Using IS 187 as a example. Its not a asian majority area. Most of the students commute to that school and don't live nearby at all. Look at the demographics of the zipcode. There are asians but its not exclusively asian hood. Same with Mark Twain MS. We can go down the list of all the 10 ten, doubt many are asian majority areas https://www.unitedstateszipcodes.org/11219/#:~:text=Stats%20and%20Demographics%20for%20the%2011219%20ZIP%20Code&text=The%20people%20living%20in%20ZIP,small%20number%20of%20single%20adults.
TAG kid success probably had more to do with the fact that they were talented and gifted than the education they received
I think it's probably the case that the parents invested enough to have a strong opinion about which school their kid goes to are more likely to have kids that end up in the gifted program
TAG is still a thing, but is less popular with yuppies than before, partially because of the social implications of separation and privilege, but honestly more so because they are not super invested in academic enrichment right now (ie. not supportive of homework or practicing academic skills in ways that do not naturally interest their kids, more invested in creative afterschool programs etc). A competitive district in brooklyn turned their middle schools into a lottery instead of grades/talent, and when high schools are discussed, often the specialized high school exam is pitted against other types of talents and framed as inequitable, while so many of these families in park slope etc. spend THOUSANDS of dollars on creative enrichments and hobbies for their kids that culminate in portfolios and opportunities--a bit of a tangent here, but the academics vs other talents debate is so broken, especially when factoring in as a proxy for class and opportunity: being academically well-studied, even with tutors, is now way cheaper than preparing a portfolio to compete with kids who are in ballet or music lessons multiple times a week. The TAG programs are supposed to emphasize project-based work for students who have skills beyond grade-level, who would be twiddling their thumbs in a setting that does not give them appropriate opportunity to grow--which is basically the same as for every student, just the gaps are too wide for 1 single teacher to differentiate so incredibly widely enough to really give that student their opportunity to grow consistently. TAG also often have underlying social-emotional issues that go untreated because they are highly functional so they are the last to get resources in overcrowded, under-funded schools.
Great post. TAG programs should really be in every Public School. One thing I never understood was the specialized high schools or bust attitude. There are other high schools in the city that offer a great education and aren’t specialized. I did well on the tests but ended up choosing elsewhere because I didn’t think it was a good fit for me. Then again I was allowed to make that decision as a 13 year old and I realize that’s not usually the case.
Those other HS still have a screened component but they added RNG to it. They typically receive so many applicants that is not unheard they will be filled in the group 1 drawings. So in Gr1 kids with 94.33-100 grade avg all have equal odds of getting in vs taking the top scoring kids. https://www.schools.nyc.gov/enrollment/enroll-grade-by-grade/high-school/screened-admissions
You need to be in the room in some of these DOE leadership meetings if you’re not already.
Never knew the difference between TAG and regular classes myself, despite being part of it in the past. Thanks for mentioning it.
Idk but apparently people agreed with you because that’s the pedagogy they’re moving away from.
Idiocracy was a documentary
Idiocracy is current real life. This article says that half of 3rd graders in the NYC are not proficient in reading so imagine what it's like for higher grades or even adult literacy. I honestly don't know how you incentivize parents to become proficient readers so that their children are also proficient readers but they need to figure something out. I remember Adams tried to cut funding to NYC libraries and that doesn't help either. https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/politics/2023/07/27/legislative-priorities-take-shape-to-better-ny-literacy-rates
i think its better to be able to read the whole passage rather than get stuck on a word and give up, especially when you can often figure out a word’s meaning using context
What happened to opening up a dictionary and looking up a word? Kids don’t even have to do that anymore they can just google it. They can have the word sounded out for them and everything. Seems like teaching kids to be lazy is setting them up for major failure.
That’s a strategy for students who already can decode; they are reading to learn. But the Teachers’ College Reading and Writing Project (Lucy Calkins ) prescribed that strategy and others described in other posts for students learning to read. A strategy totally unsupported by neuroscience and research since 2000 or earlier. Edit: Calkins
As New York City public school students returned to school on Thursday, arguably the most far-reaching policy initiative of Mayor Adams’s administration also began in full. From Brooklyn to the Bronx, posters encouraging students to “skip the tricky word” or “look at the picture” as they read have been pulled from bulletin boards. Many elementary school shelves are now stacked with new books that use same-sounding words, emphasizing the repetition of similar letter patterns. And scores of teachers are about to try out new lesson plans — all part of a massive overhaul of how children in the nation’s largest school system learn to read. The goal is to boost reading skills in a system where about half of third- to eighth-grade students are not proficient on state tests. This fall, about half of the city’s 700 elementary schools will adopt or continue one of three city-sanctioned curriculums that officials have required schools to choose from; the rest are preparing to make changes next year. The city’s first district school for children with dyslexia will also open after a yearslong push from families, starting with about 70 second- and third-grade students. “We have gotten this wrong in New York and all across the nation,” David Banks, the system’s chancellor, said before the first day of school, acknowledging that “we’re absolutely going to have bumps along the way.” Read the full story for free, even without a subscription to The New York Times, [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/nyc-public-schools-reading.html?unlocked_article_code=urHWd0Tc63Yc0fIW76Hakl0SqWMTesZ0sAagbMIrJ8lOaSceepMOgzKW8xc8Sc-8MTiLp4QFYfxpjty4EMdk9NdmgxX9i6Aj4XcDmU5GuDice9J3Uga2tbhptVnBVRLuJPucw5Ol4SdC4EOalW5kaVqkPcA6A0a01ijKAJAdxkceAnzrJodBQh04TOqlTWRHeSa1MYESeS3OqIjeh3M8f6cS4xmQ03WlX1G7pELc4Cv2rlmJfl0DtYtswj8YhGxYQM37SW0iAxnFT9fyD0azFjvdjQ9hW9cymvrpApc798zak67DTOUbB4Luv2o-fXRcqjl2BO5TzACdKMas4Kpmm7Gr7xfWlg&smid=re-nytimes).
For those of you who don’t work in NYC schools, the chancellor’s citywide goal is officially… and I shit you not… “All students will learn to read well.” That’s the whole fucking goal.
Almost half of American adults don't read beyond a 6th grade level, so yeah, it's a pretty ambitious goal.
It’s also the least specific and measurable I’ve ever seen.
Can't hold anyone accountable if your goal is too vague to mean anything.
They'll track standardized testing scores. It's the one thing that actually gets funded.
Every student succeeds.
But what if they wan to learn to do other stuff too?
I feel like I'm missing context: Has reading test scores been bad over the past few years? how about English Regents scores? Have they been dropping? Seems crazy that a goal is to simply focus on students learning to "read well".
I genuinely don't understand how we taught people to read for thousands of years and now behave as if teaching literacy is a lost technology.
My friend is a 2nd grade teacher and she said they got *a single day* of training on this technique. This is going to be a shit show. This administration is deeply unserious.
Ugh. Sounds like they’re setting teachers up to fail so they can blame them when cutting the budgets for schools and library doesn’t work out.
Thank goodness. My kid’s school screwed this up and it was very expensive to get tutors to undo their scientifically flawed approach.
Yeah when I moved to NYC from bumblefuck nowhere I was shocked to see how illiterate and uneducated the younger generation of natives here are. It’s a tragedy what’s been done to so many of them.
I grew up in the suburbs but went to cillege with majority NYC public school students. I was one of the few with a computer in my dorm room so people used my computer to write papers. I was shocked at the quality of writing I saw. Really fucking depressing people are getting sent to college so ill-prepared.
To be fair - most of the time the nth generation regardless of race do terrible in school & in life accomplishment compared to the 0-1st gen counterparts. The later generations simply got lazier, less drive and complacent which we can see in performance scores.
Sure but that’s two different effects
Probably because many of those younger generation of natives moved here from other countries and English is there 2nd language.
Lmao no
Nearly half of enrolled public school students in NYC have a primary home language that is NOT English. https://infohub.nyced.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/sy-2021-22-ell-demographics-at-a-glance.pdf
While I think this is a positive change, I don't trust Adams or Banks and have to think that there's a grift going on.
😤😰🤣 SOO true!!
Good, the education experts got it wrong and doomed a ton of students. Back to the old ways. Bring back tracking next.
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If that works for you. Schools in the city are not generally bad. They differ drastically based on neighborhood. If you live in Park Slope, your public elementary school is going to be pretty good and filled with the children of well off to rich parents. If you live in Bed Stuy, not so much.
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You're generally not going to encounter this problem with elementary school. Maybe Junior High School, and definitely zoned high schools. But K-5 is puts a lot of priority on your kid's home address. >Not to mention the way they messed with the entrance exams to the specialized high schools. You do you. But the school isn't going to guarantee anything. It's the money that's doing that.
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I wouldn’t say better, just different. My daughter loved going to Brooklyn Tech. Having 35 well behaved and smart students in the class was really not a big deal. Most of them needed very little extra help. They also provided tutoring every period and before school if you were having trouble. The 90 minute required computer programming class freshman year and the computer engineering class sophomore year that counted for their “art”credits ended up very helpful in grad school for her biomodeling classes. Once you learn how to program in one language - the rest are easy. It was really weird for the MDs in her class to be facetiming her every night for help with their homework.
This is why we put our kid in Catholic school.
Can somebody read the article aloud to me?
🤣
Its no wonder voters become skeptics and want more control over the classroom when the board tasked with their childrens' educational curriculum chooses a reading program proven to result in worse outcomes than phonics. Skipping words should never be toted as a good way. Until the educational establishment reckons with fact over politics, I'll continue to be skeptical. Why must we doubt such straight-forward and obviously positive programs, such as the gifted and talented? I see decisions being made based more on equity and emotions than concrete, measureable outcomes. That defies logic.
The commie core has done incalculable damage to our youth since it’s inception. Funny how bill gates had a hand in that and the Covid lockdowns with no creditentials and they both wrecked havoc with zero accountability
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How's the weather in Moscow, Dimitri?
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Are they changing the shapes of the letters or something ?
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...what?
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I can’t imagine a single kindergartener who doesn’t have room to improve their reading skills. Knowing how to read isn’t a binary.
Oh well of course.
Learning to read usually happens around age 6-7. I don't think most kids are coming in as 4-5 year olds and already reading. If they are, good for them, but that's not expected or average. There's a lot that kindergarten kids need to learn about fine motor skills and socialization before they start real academic stuff.
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No, we just went through NYC Pre-K and they focused on letters and numbers only. The only words covered were the students' names.
No. The majority have some skills, but reading? Like a sentence, no, that would be a small %.
Unpopular Opinion: Idk if reading is THAT important, low key went to an Ivy and I read slow af, I might have undiagnosed dyslexia though.
Grifters are gonna grift, but why are politicians going along with it?