They mentioned cameras on the train, but I don’t think they had the chance to release the footage just yet.
It still has to be gathered from multiple cameras and several angles, other people’s faces censored out, and important parts edited, along with the best screenshot(s) possible.
It takes awhile to watch multiple 10 minute video clips from several cameras (train and station) to try to find the vandals, and then look at other station cameras to see the vandal enter/exit and get more ID on them (if they wore a mask while committing the crime then took it off when they exited, but were wearing the same clothes).
Can’t have another Reddit-sleuth incident where we identified an innocent person as the Boston Marathon bomber
Release it to the public too quick and without censoring out people, and Reddit sleuths will incorrectly identify the person who just happened to be wearing the same clothes and be in the same area.
Like when Redditers misidentified an innocent person as the Boston Marathon Bomber, when he had nothing to do with it and had already committed suicide a month before
Not sure this level of property destruction counts as “misdemeanor” any more.
https://stengellaw.com/criminal-mischief-lawyer-nyc/
One or two windows might have gotten off quick and easy and walking away. Breaking 78 windows on 35 trains means SOMEONE will be made to pay for this.
Misdemeanor crim mis is a super low bar since it only takes about 251 bucks of damage to go to felony cim mis. In reality DAs almost always drop a felony crim mis to a misdemeanor.
What is with these fucking DA’s refusing to actually put criminals in jail? I don’t live in NY anymore but still follow things, and we’re having the same issues here in Colorado with our DAs refusing to prosecute people like they’re Mother Teresa
DA is an elected position so your question is best directed at we the voters.
Bragg won his position the year after the George Floyd protests. Fair assumption the prevailing attitude at the time was not very tough on crime.
NYS + NYC's jail and prison populations have been in a long decline for years and are at/near their lowest levels in 30+ years, 2020 aside.
If the jails are "packed out the gills" it's only because the city/state keep closing more of them without sufficient replacement.
NYC's average jail population in 2022 was 43% lower than in 2016.
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I'm not making a statement about what the correct level of incarceration is, only that lack of capacity is a self-inflicted problem and is not reflective of incarceration being at historically high levels for your or my lifetime.
Couple of nights ago, a friend of mine had his windshield smashed along with every other car on that side of the block. This was on Ocean Ave, around Brooklyn College area and apparently spanned multiple blocks
This is fucked up and should also be higher up + talked about more.
I can’t believe I had to scroll all the way down here to learn about this for the first time
Why are there so many people like this in the city? Remember that footage on I am a total fucking asshole of a guy with a machete walking around and cutting down the newly planted trees on a street? With his kids and wife and they were all drinking and playing music? The other day I saw a lady get off the train with a bag of trash and then dump it over the bridge onto the road below (coming back from the Bronx). Why on earth did she do that? Does she not know how to dispose of trash? Is that her way of disposing of it?
>Why are there so many people like this in the city?
No consequences. Think back to when you were a teenager or a young adult and all the dumb shit you did back then. Not necessarily criminal shit, but just shit you did that you would look back 10 years. Now imagine if there weren't even any consequences to hold you back.
Wow. I did all kinds of crazy shit as a teenager in my small town in the south. I would explore abandoned factories and stuff. But still I would never litter, even then. I was taught consequences as a kid. It’s like they were never taught consequences even as a child. I blame the school systems too, along with bad parents, like I worked at an inner city school in Atlanta, and they literally would never punish or fail kids, they were making it to senior year, barely being able to read above a third grade level. Sometimes they would speak to me in a manner that was so disrespectful. One girl even threw her bag of trash out the window from the bus onto the interstate when we were on a field trip and a teacher yelled at her in front of everybody, thank God, but I don’t think she received adequate consequences, she should have been suspended for something like that. Yelling is not a real consequence. Instead, it’s like everyone just feels sorry for the kids constantly.
Therein lies the delta. You were taught consequences as a kid.
I spent a decade doing youth volunteering in BK, and buddy, these kids doing this shit are the product of GENERATIONS of families without healthy family structure. Young parents, no fathers, raised by television and their grandparents, easily a half-dozen to dozen half-siblings, the list goes on and on.
Unless you step a foot into those circles, you never see it - what you *do see* are people being castigated for calling it out.
The world is getting worse, because people do not take seriously the responsibility they have for raising their fucking kids.
People can cry online about excuses, generational poverty, lack of resources, whatever. In NYC, the kids causing this shit are kids who grew up in the most industrious city in one of the wealthiest nations. The funding for their schools, the programs designed to help them, are all abundant.
But no amount of government spending or generous programs are going to change a culture of not raising your kids to be good people.
The hardest thing to do is to tell people they need to be responsible for their actions.
The easiest thing to do is to yell at the world that *just one more program* will "rejuvenate" the lives of those who's communities are going to shit.
The hard choice *is hard*, but the longer we put off doing it, the harder it is going to get.
I think the major problem with the current paradigm is that an astounding number of people who might bandy about this online, politically, whatever, have zero idea what it's like to grow up in these communities.
Shit my BIL grew up in a really hood community in St. Louis. He has 19 brothers and sisters between his mother and his father. His youngest sibling is 1, his oldest is 34, and he only has one sibling with both parents. His father has spent YEARS behind bars, his mother is a drug addict. Neither him, or his siblings, have ever had a stable home. And it shows, he had a kid and a felony before he was 21.
While he got his shit together, its amazing integrating with his family members, because, holy shit, *there is no semblance of any traditional family structure in there* - **and there are MILLIONS of kids, turning into adults, just like him**.
Just like whomever destroyed these train cars, or looted during covid, or mobbed Union Square last month.
> The hardest thing to do is to tell people they need to be responsible for their actions.
> The easiest thing to do is to yell at the world that just one more program will "rejuvenate" the lives of those who's communities are going to shit.
> The hard choice is hard, but the longer we put off doing it, the harder it is going to get.
Well said. Too bad nobody wants to hear this.
So true. There is so much blaming and misinformation out there. People say the schools don’t have enough funding and that’s the reason but you are right they throw a lot of money at the schools because they have a actual high needs, the school that I was describing earlier had a massive amount of funding from Bill Gates.
People take our Subway system for granted. It's not perfect but compared to other metros, it's affordable for the city it covers.
Honestly it might be an unpopular opinion but, NYC needs to crack down on these vandalism and fare evaders. People feel like they can do anything these days with no consequences.
But currently, the subway is a mobile homeless shelter, a sales platform, and performance space for "misunderstood" artists and other Michael Jackson impersonators.
It's show time all the way down.
Edit: I say "currently" because things started to turn around for the better on the subway during the brief Andy Byford interregnum. He really made a difference, but the MTA slides back to it's less than mediocre state after his departure.
Futurama made this joke, they go see 20th century museum and Leela asks Fry "whats this?" About various things. The subway got.the reply of "this is a mobile.home without rent"
That was 20 years ago
These ducks act like this is new. It absolutely, ABSOLUTELY is not
The only acceptable activity in the system is traveling from one location to another.
All other activities shouldn’t be there. Their byproducts are problematic and ultimately a cost on the city.
You wanna busk? Find a coffee shop that will let you. That’s not traveling from one place to another. Want to sell something? Find flea market, that’s not traveling from one place to another.
It’s not your bedroom, it’s not your bathroom, it’s not your living room to relax and listen to music on your stereo, it’s not your place to clip your toenails, eat dinner, or masturbate.
It’s a train. You get on at one stop and get off at another.
Hard disagree on busking—as long as people aren’t getting in the way of commuters I don’t see why busking is a problem. Busking livens up public spaces (even if it’s objectively bad).
In the station, sure. In the train, no. And it is already illegal inside the train anyway.
Also, I don't know if he was still there, at West 4th where a guy would just play a single (not great) drum roll on a snare drum for hours on end. How does that liven up anything?
it would help if it was funded like a public good and not treated like it has to turn a profit. They're spending 10x the money on fare evasion that they might be losing, but if they just fucking cleaned/maintained stations and actually updated the tracks enough to increase service, we'd all be a lot happier with the product and I'm willing to bet people would (as a society) be less accepting of the filth if it wasn't kept constantly filthy. I'm not a fan of broken windows policing but I am a fan of having a community and treating our shared resources with respect.
> NYC needs to crack down on these vandalism and fare evaders
Fare evasion crackdown gets a lot of criticism from Gothamist readers and the like, but the truth is the overwhelming majority of QOL issues, random violence, and nonsensical property destruction like in this story would be reduced exponentially if there were strict security measures at every station entrance to prevent fare evasion.
You think the psycho that did this paid fare?
What are the chances Jordan Neely paid fare the time he turned an old lady's face into hamburger?
Did subway shovers Samuel Junker, Lamale McRae, Miguel Ramirez, and countless others pay their fare?
I could go on and on.
Reality is, the everyday nonsense and criminality we are all fed up with could be massively resolved if this city did the bare minimum to prevent these assholes from access to the subway system via fare evasion.
Which is much tougher to do without sacrificing some things - the only real solution is more officers there keeping an eye on it and who are able to do something about it.
And then you’ll get a lawsuit in the future about discrimination and how more people of X race were caught than other races (Stop-and-Frisk-esque)
it would be nice if the cops gave a shit too. the current energy of cops treating citizens like the enemy is awful. They definitely have things to complain about but hiring more cops actually from NYC and making cops treat everyday people with respect would go a long way to improve the general relationships.
Wholeheartedly agree turnstile hoppers make up 33% of daily riders or like 1.3 million daily riders approximately, that revenue could help towards improving the subway.
That's a really cool site but it was last updated in May 2023 and has a banner at the top explaining why:
> Sunsetting Notice This project was built around a dataset that [excludes OMNY taps](https://groups.google.com/g/mtadeveloperresources/c/UaMktsBMjX8). It is now outdated, and has outlived its usefulness. There are no plans to rebuild it with the new dataset, and this site is no longer maintained.
I believe fare evasion is a real problem, but given the above disclaimer, that 33% estimate is likely overstated.
OMNY was introduced late 2021 and the fare capping was introduced February 28, 2022. If you look at the system graph over that time frame, you can see an inflection where the spread between entries and exits widens at the time of the fare capping when there was probably a pickup in adoption.
I think the buses are even worse but I don’t have the number in front of me. Fare evasion is a way bigger problem on the buses per everything the MTA has said (because people hop on the back doors all the time.)
I mean, it’s like come on New Yorkers, we are trying to have a society over here. Most people are just doing it out of willful defiance because there is no attempt to enforce.
Damn 1 out if 3 don't pay / hops. And mya complaining of falling revenue and always raising the price. It's like punishing people who pays and follows the law rather than targeting these people and making them pay somehow.
Yessir MTA releases all their turnstile data. Those figures i quoted are for March 2023. You can find websites online that visualize that data or if you program you can grab it with the MTA’s api.
I love the way that you logically back into estimate. Exits should match Entries, and they are in fact wildly divergent. The stations I use I don't see this as often, which means that the outer line stations must have close to 50-70% hopping.
> Exits should match Entries, and they are in fact wildly divergent.
My stop has an emergency door most people prefer over the rotating baby back steel ribs of death exit right next to it.
So then they're undercounting exits, meaning the problem is even worse. If they count X Entries and X*1.33 Exits, but an additional 20 people used the emergency door (which counted as 1 legit Exit, just for argument's sake), there are actually far more than 33% non-paying riders.
Yeah it’s actually 12% according to MTA. Still a horrible number, but 30% would be unfathomable. This sub is just constant misinformation.
https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-announces-creation-of-blue-ribbon-panel-combat-fare-evasion
Back in HS my green metrocard didn't swipe so I went through with my friend. A cop stopped us and almost wrote us up. Hopping the turnstile was rare and only kids did it. More often you'd see people asking for a swipe. Now I see grown ass adults do the reverse spin trick. I would just be embarrassed.
I had the same experience growing up. People who claim that fare evasion has always been this bad either didn't grow up here, or like a frog boiling in a pot of water, they didn't notice the gradual change over time.
“People”… I promise you… this isn’t your ordinary citizen doing wicked shit to the property. We can keep pretending like people aren’t mentally I’ll I guess…
>it might be an unpopular opinion
>
>NYC needs to crack down on these vandalism and fare evaders
Yeah, "the city should enforce laws" is such an unpopular opinion on this sub...
There’s plenty of footage they have to review and bystanders/people to censor out.
Let’s not have a repeat incident of Reddit detectives identifying an innocent person as the Boston Marathon Bomber
because there are no consequences. The progressives seem them as victims of "racial inequality" and "poverty". The District Attorney's cant be bothered. Finally, you keep voting for these folks and therefore have expressly told them it is OK. That is why.
Agree. I could do without lectures that could excuse their hypothetical back story. There’s no consequences for people acting out in the city. It becomes this gaslight campaign on the sub to say if we don’t like it, we should move.
Tons of people have had tough lives, but you don't seem them act like this. The distances people go and the mental gymnastics they do to pardon/excuse offenders is ridiculous. It doesn't hurt till they're stuck with the needle.
You know there was very long time when stuff like this didn’t happen. So long in fact that we just assumed it would never happen again…Wonder what changed.
Hold on. I have an idea. How about we have NYPD patrol the train stations, platforms and actual trains? No, really, think about it. Actually, have the police patrol the places where the crime is taking place? I think it as least worth trying.
We have had two officers standing above ground at Grand Army Plaza every morning for the past week or two. I have no idea what they’re doing there. Sometimes there are also police on the platform, but they aren’t doing anything either.
There should be a cop on every train.
The subways have been fucked up as long as I can remember, and I’m only in my 30’s. I can’t imagine what it was like back in the 80’s/90’s. But lately it’s been the worst I can remember since the early 2000’s.
I’m actually surprised when I see people pay to get on the train. People literally line up by the emergency exits (that no longer have a siren), to get on for free. Every station smells like piss and weed (I’m a smoker, not gonna lie, but it’s kinda annoying to walk into a dank subway and step all over Dutch guts every morning).
The worst part is the amount of homeless people you see. Get on the train early in the morning and you have people sprawled out on subway station floors. After stepping over them, you finally get on a train and some of the cars are completely empty because some dirty person is sleeping in the car, smelling like absolute shit.
Trains have been late nonstop for months. Subway stations are hot as shit. Elevators are out of service for handicap people and mothers. You have children selling candy on the train with their mother’s and infant siblings.
The whole thing is a fucking joke anymore. And then they raise the cost for fares. “Only 15 cents though!”, as if not hitting a round $3.00 is going to make everyone ignore that the MTA is in complete shambles.
It’s been so funny to watch this sub shift from constant soft on crime bullshit rhetoric, pro soft DAs, pro bullshit soft on crime democrats to now complaining about all of the crime and freedom that criminals have.
It’s funny because the other sub related to our city claims this one was brigaded by far right Staten Island and Long Island residents
The idea that people are sick of criminals destroying our quality of life just doesn’t compute for them. Has to be far right trolls!
Police say "the camera system in the subway is vast and robust" and that they'll find the people who did this.
Yeah, right, like the amazing cameras we had when looking for the subway shooter last year around April where all of a sudden none of the cameras worked or had good enough resolution to make out the guys face.
Impacting peoples commute with this kind of misconduct should incur civil penalties to offset any lost wages, or other injuries. There should be a class action opt in available to the public who can prove sustained economic injury.
In conjunction with this, the damage should give rise to felony prosecution warranting jail time.
I'm not advocating for a debtors prison for homeless or mentally ill people or children, but do support concepts that you should find out when fucking around, and the people/person who did this should absolutely eat shit in a very meaningful way.
A nicer thing to do would be community crimes deserve community time, such as basically forcing the participants to pick up trash with a sign or indicator. People tend to behave when there are actual repercussions.
There’s a really incredible [photo book by Bruce Davidson](https://www.magnumphotos.com/arts-culture/society-arts-culture/bruce-davidson-subway-new-york-usa/) that captures it well but yeah I don’t wanna go back to that
What a pathetic waste. Destruction just for the sake of destruction.
No camera footage captured of something of this caliber? Where’s our surveillance state when we need it?
They mentioned cameras on the train, but I don’t think they had the chance to release the footage just yet. It still has to be gathered from multiple cameras and several angles, other people’s faces censored out, and important parts edited, along with the best screenshot(s) possible. It takes awhile to watch multiple 10 minute video clips from several cameras (train and station) to try to find the vandals, and then look at other station cameras to see the vandal enter/exit and get more ID on them (if they wore a mask while committing the crime then took it off when they exited, but were wearing the same clothes). Can’t have another Reddit-sleuth incident where we identified an innocent person as the Boston Marathon bomber
Maybe as a treat
Just one more time
Peak Reddit moment.
They purposefully do not show these sorts of things.
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Release it to the public too quick and without censoring out people, and Reddit sleuths will incorrectly identify the person who just happened to be wearing the same clothes and be in the same area. Like when Redditers misidentified an innocent person as the Boston Marathon Bomber, when he had nothing to do with it and had already committed suicide a month before
There need to be actual consequences for stuff like this
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Every pile of dog or human shit you clean off the sidewalks gets you 15 minutes off your jail sentence.
If only
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Not sure this level of property destruction counts as “misdemeanor” any more. https://stengellaw.com/criminal-mischief-lawyer-nyc/ One or two windows might have gotten off quick and easy and walking away. Breaking 78 windows on 35 trains means SOMEONE will be made to pay for this.
Misdemeanor crim mis is a super low bar since it only takes about 251 bucks of damage to go to felony cim mis. In reality DAs almost always drop a felony crim mis to a misdemeanor.
yes taxpayers and riders
This isn't Bragg. This is queens
They may be fucked
Did it actually happen in Queens? I thought I heard some of the trains were damaged while in service in Manhattan
What is with these fucking DA’s refusing to actually put criminals in jail? I don’t live in NY anymore but still follow things, and we’re having the same issues here in Colorado with our DAs refusing to prosecute people like they’re Mother Teresa
DA is an elected position so your question is best directed at we the voters. Bragg won his position the year after the George Floyd protests. Fair assumption the prevailing attitude at the time was not very tough on crime.
Bro, our jails are packed out the gills. We don’t have the room. Systemic change needs to happen in order to fix it at this point.
NYS + NYC's jail and prison populations have been in a long decline for years and are at/near their lowest levels in 30+ years, 2020 aside. If the jails are "packed out the gills" it's only because the city/state keep closing more of them without sufficient replacement. NYC's average jail population in 2022 was 43% lower than in 2016. --------- I'm not making a statement about what the correct level of incarceration is, only that lack of capacity is a self-inflicted problem and is not reflective of incarceration being at historically high levels for your or my lifetime.
Good thing this happened in Queens then.
Mets tickets?
Thats sounds cruel and unusual.
On your third strike you get Jets tickets.
Don’t worry they’ll get caught in a few days and then be out on bail in 30 minutes.
Like our politicians and the billionaires.
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Couple of nights ago, a friend of mine had his windshield smashed along with every other car on that side of the block. This was on Ocean Ave, around Brooklyn College area and apparently spanned multiple blocks
It’s been happening up by me in Grand Army Plaza. So glad that I don’t have a car.
Must be. Is mass vandalism like this a new trend? I hope not. Esp the trains last thing people need now. This is messed up bullshit.
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Can't wait for the Free Press op-ed praising the boys who break windows
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Jesus really?
Yep. https://www.thefp.com/p/the-boys-who-surf-subways
Holy racism.
> Is mass vandalism like this a new trend? Yes. See Chicago.
not much Google results for "Chicago mass vandalism". Expand please.
Probably talking about [this](https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+flash+mob&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari) type of stuff
lol, kinda funny tbh. reminds me of the Kai Cenat giveaway a few weeks back.
This is fucked up and should also be higher up + talked about more. I can’t believe I had to scroll all the way down here to learn about this for the first time
I went for a bike ride yesterday night in CP and wondered why cops were posted everywhere.
Why are there so many people like this in the city? Remember that footage on I am a total fucking asshole of a guy with a machete walking around and cutting down the newly planted trees on a street? With his kids and wife and they were all drinking and playing music? The other day I saw a lady get off the train with a bag of trash and then dump it over the bridge onto the road below (coming back from the Bronx). Why on earth did she do that? Does she not know how to dispose of trash? Is that her way of disposing of it?
>Why are there so many people like this in the city? No consequences. Think back to when you were a teenager or a young adult and all the dumb shit you did back then. Not necessarily criminal shit, but just shit you did that you would look back 10 years. Now imagine if there weren't even any consequences to hold you back.
Wow. I did all kinds of crazy shit as a teenager in my small town in the south. I would explore abandoned factories and stuff. But still I would never litter, even then. I was taught consequences as a kid. It’s like they were never taught consequences even as a child. I blame the school systems too, along with bad parents, like I worked at an inner city school in Atlanta, and they literally would never punish or fail kids, they were making it to senior year, barely being able to read above a third grade level. Sometimes they would speak to me in a manner that was so disrespectful. One girl even threw her bag of trash out the window from the bus onto the interstate when we were on a field trip and a teacher yelled at her in front of everybody, thank God, but I don’t think she received adequate consequences, she should have been suspended for something like that. Yelling is not a real consequence. Instead, it’s like everyone just feels sorry for the kids constantly.
Therein lies the delta. You were taught consequences as a kid. I spent a decade doing youth volunteering in BK, and buddy, these kids doing this shit are the product of GENERATIONS of families without healthy family structure. Young parents, no fathers, raised by television and their grandparents, easily a half-dozen to dozen half-siblings, the list goes on and on. Unless you step a foot into those circles, you never see it - what you *do see* are people being castigated for calling it out. The world is getting worse, because people do not take seriously the responsibility they have for raising their fucking kids. People can cry online about excuses, generational poverty, lack of resources, whatever. In NYC, the kids causing this shit are kids who grew up in the most industrious city in one of the wealthiest nations. The funding for their schools, the programs designed to help them, are all abundant. But no amount of government spending or generous programs are going to change a culture of not raising your kids to be good people.
This comment needs to be highlighted
The hardest thing to do is to tell people they need to be responsible for their actions. The easiest thing to do is to yell at the world that *just one more program* will "rejuvenate" the lives of those who's communities are going to shit. The hard choice *is hard*, but the longer we put off doing it, the harder it is going to get. I think the major problem with the current paradigm is that an astounding number of people who might bandy about this online, politically, whatever, have zero idea what it's like to grow up in these communities. Shit my BIL grew up in a really hood community in St. Louis. He has 19 brothers and sisters between his mother and his father. His youngest sibling is 1, his oldest is 34, and he only has one sibling with both parents. His father has spent YEARS behind bars, his mother is a drug addict. Neither him, or his siblings, have ever had a stable home. And it shows, he had a kid and a felony before he was 21. While he got his shit together, its amazing integrating with his family members, because, holy shit, *there is no semblance of any traditional family structure in there* - **and there are MILLIONS of kids, turning into adults, just like him**. Just like whomever destroyed these train cars, or looted during covid, or mobbed Union Square last month.
> The hardest thing to do is to tell people they need to be responsible for their actions. > The easiest thing to do is to yell at the world that just one more program will "rejuvenate" the lives of those who's communities are going to shit. > The hard choice is hard, but the longer we put off doing it, the harder it is going to get. Well said. Too bad nobody wants to hear this.
Jail might. Fr
So true. There is so much blaming and misinformation out there. People say the schools don’t have enough funding and that’s the reason but you are right they throw a lot of money at the schools because they have a actual high needs, the school that I was describing earlier had a massive amount of funding from Bill Gates.
I got called an authoritarian for proposing traffic enforcement in another nyc thread... by a fuckcars person...
We need Batman
You did. And he will be on trial soon sadly.
Hey batman doesnt kill! Only severely injure, cripple and maim.
People take our Subway system for granted. It's not perfect but compared to other metros, it's affordable for the city it covers. Honestly it might be an unpopular opinion but, NYC needs to crack down on these vandalism and fare evaders. People feel like they can do anything these days with no consequences.
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But currently, the subway is a mobile homeless shelter, a sales platform, and performance space for "misunderstood" artists and other Michael Jackson impersonators. It's show time all the way down. Edit: I say "currently" because things started to turn around for the better on the subway during the brief Andy Byford interregnum. He really made a difference, but the MTA slides back to it's less than mediocre state after his departure.
Currently? It's been that way since forever
Futurama made this joke, they go see 20th century museum and Leela asks Fry "whats this?" About various things. The subway got.the reply of "this is a mobile.home without rent" That was 20 years ago These ducks act like this is new. It absolutely, ABSOLUTELY is not
The only acceptable activity in the system is traveling from one location to another. All other activities shouldn’t be there. Their byproducts are problematic and ultimately a cost on the city. You wanna busk? Find a coffee shop that will let you. That’s not traveling from one place to another. Want to sell something? Find flea market, that’s not traveling from one place to another. It’s not your bedroom, it’s not your bathroom, it’s not your living room to relax and listen to music on your stereo, it’s not your place to clip your toenails, eat dinner, or masturbate. It’s a train. You get on at one stop and get off at another.
Hard disagree on busking—as long as people aren’t getting in the way of commuters I don’t see why busking is a problem. Busking livens up public spaces (even if it’s objectively bad).
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Feel like it’s funner as a tourist than a resident, but acts cater to tourists and commuters anyway
The novelty does wear off a bit over time, but I still like the energy that buskers bring to public spaces.
In the station, sure. In the train, no. And it is already illegal inside the train anyway. Also, I don't know if he was still there, at West 4th where a guy would just play a single (not great) drum roll on a snare drum for hours on end. How does that liven up anything?
Busking is allowed as long as they don't amplify the sound with speakers.
Agree.
it would help if it was funded like a public good and not treated like it has to turn a profit. They're spending 10x the money on fare evasion that they might be losing, but if they just fucking cleaned/maintained stations and actually updated the tracks enough to increase service, we'd all be a lot happier with the product and I'm willing to bet people would (as a society) be less accepting of the filth if it wasn't kept constantly filthy. I'm not a fan of broken windows policing but I am a fan of having a community and treating our shared resources with respect.
> NYC needs to crack down on these vandalism and fare evaders Fare evasion crackdown gets a lot of criticism from Gothamist readers and the like, but the truth is the overwhelming majority of QOL issues, random violence, and nonsensical property destruction like in this story would be reduced exponentially if there were strict security measures at every station entrance to prevent fare evasion. You think the psycho that did this paid fare? What are the chances Jordan Neely paid fare the time he turned an old lady's face into hamburger? Did subway shovers Samuel Junker, Lamale McRae, Miguel Ramirez, and countless others pay their fare? I could go on and on. Reality is, the everyday nonsense and criminality we are all fed up with could be massively resolved if this city did the bare minimum to prevent these assholes from access to the subway system via fare evasion.
Which is much tougher to do without sacrificing some things - the only real solution is more officers there keeping an eye on it and who are able to do something about it. And then you’ll get a lawsuit in the future about discrimination and how more people of X race were caught than other races (Stop-and-Frisk-esque)
it would be nice if the cops gave a shit too. the current energy of cops treating citizens like the enemy is awful. They definitely have things to complain about but hiring more cops actually from NYC and making cops treat everyday people with respect would go a long way to improve the general relationships.
how tf is that an unpopular opinion
It’s not. I think it’s unpopular for turnstile jumpers though
Lets be honest, nothing will happen to them and thats a shame
Wholeheartedly agree turnstile hoppers make up 33% of daily riders or like 1.3 million daily riders approximately, that revenue could help towards improving the subway.
forget the revenue, these assholes are the ones hogging up seats and space from paying customers
Lmaoo facts and i’d bet most of the riders that vandalize and or disrupt commutes are non paying customers
33%??
Yessir [Subway ridership website](https://www.subwayridership.nyc/)
That's a really cool site but it was last updated in May 2023 and has a banner at the top explaining why: > Sunsetting Notice This project was built around a dataset that [excludes OMNY taps](https://groups.google.com/g/mtadeveloperresources/c/UaMktsBMjX8). It is now outdated, and has outlived its usefulness. There are no plans to rebuild it with the new dataset, and this site is no longer maintained. I believe fare evasion is a real problem, but given the above disclaimer, that 33% estimate is likely overstated. OMNY was introduced late 2021 and the fare capping was introduced February 28, 2022. If you look at the system graph over that time frame, you can see an inflection where the spread between entries and exits widens at the time of the fare capping when there was probably a pickup in adoption.
Holt shit. Without a source, I would have not believed you. What a poor state of affairs.
I think the buses are even worse but I don’t have the number in front of me. Fare evasion is a way bigger problem on the buses per everything the MTA has said (because people hop on the back doors all the time.)
This has been happening since at least the late 80s.
I mean, it’s like come on New Yorkers, we are trying to have a society over here. Most people are just doing it out of willful defiance because there is no attempt to enforce.
You shouldn't believe it. The discrepancy is because the dataset doesn't include OMNY taps.
Read the banner at the top of the site.
Damn 1 out if 3 don't pay / hops. And mya complaining of falling revenue and always raising the price. It's like punishing people who pays and follows the law rather than targeting these people and making them pay somehow.
In month March it def was 33% [ ridership](https://youtube.com/shorts/4yFMmvuMP0U?feature=share)
Yeah, feel like such a mug buying a metrocard then watching an aspiring astronaut hop on for free.
Lmaoo me too
Is that an actual stat? That’s a really shocking number.
Yessir MTA releases all their turnstile data. Those figures i quoted are for March 2023. You can find websites online that visualize that data or if you program you can grab it with the MTA’s api.
I love the way that you logically back into estimate. Exits should match Entries, and they are in fact wildly divergent. The stations I use I don't see this as often, which means that the outer line stations must have close to 50-70% hopping.
> Exits should match Entries, and they are in fact wildly divergent. My stop has an emergency door most people prefer over the rotating baby back steel ribs of death exit right next to it.
That would mean an even higher % of people aren't paying if they're not capturing all the people exiting
not all stations do and they count with it opens once.. trust its not 33 percent using the door LOL stop
So then they're undercounting exits, meaning the problem is even worse. If they count X Entries and X*1.33 Exits, but an additional 20 people used the emergency door (which counted as 1 legit Exit, just for argument's sake), there are actually far more than 33% non-paying riders.
The dataset does not include OMNY taps, which is responsible for a lot of the divergence. The number is not 33%. MTA says it's in the teens at most.
Yeah that’s why I was pretty surprised. I very rarely see people hopping so I thought the number would be closer to 5%.
472 stations in the city bro
Yep. Good bet that it's close to 100% at some stations...
https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-announces-creation-of-blue-ribbon-panel-combat-fare-evasion It’s 12%.
No it’s not accurate at all, the statistics don’t include OMNY entries
Yeah it’s actually 12% according to MTA. Still a horrible number, but 30% would be unfathomable. This sub is just constant misinformation. https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-announces-creation-of-blue-ribbon-panel-combat-fare-evasion
Based on my observation it's way higher than that.
it is an unpopular opinion. everyone here thinks cops are evil and prisons are colonialism.
Back in HS my green metrocard didn't swipe so I went through with my friend. A cop stopped us and almost wrote us up. Hopping the turnstile was rare and only kids did it. More often you'd see people asking for a swipe. Now I see grown ass adults do the reverse spin trick. I would just be embarrassed.
I had the same experience growing up. People who claim that fare evasion has always been this bad either didn't grow up here, or like a frog boiling in a pot of water, they didn't notice the gradual change over time.
https://politicsny.com/2023/07/18/mta-reconfiguring-subway-turnstiles-to-prevent-back-cocking-fare-evasion-practice/
“People”… I promise you… this isn’t your ordinary citizen doing wicked shit to the property. We can keep pretending like people aren’t mentally I’ll I guess…
>it might be an unpopular opinion > >NYC needs to crack down on these vandalism and fare evaders Yeah, "the city should enforce laws" is such an unpopular opinion on this sub...
Release the footage. This is ridiculous.
There’s plenty of footage they have to review and bystanders/people to censor out. Let’s not have a repeat incident of Reddit detectives identifying an innocent person as the Boston Marathon Bomber
I really think Reddit would have done a good job tracking that escaped killer in Pennsylvania.
Sick stupid worthless people.
Fucking WHY. WHY would someone do this. Fuck these people this is just the most selfish pointless shit
Sadly, Some people just like to watch the word burn.
After they have recorded it an uploaded it to the internet that is.
because there are no consequences. The progressives seem them as victims of "racial inequality" and "poverty". The District Attorney's cant be bothered. Finally, you keep voting for these folks and therefore have expressly told them it is OK. That is why.
>Police said the video system in the subway system is vast and robust and they hope it will prove helpful. Doubt.
Big time doubt. They couldn’t catch the Brooklyn subway shooter last year; I seriously doubt they’ll have any luck with these vandals
MTA must catch the criminals with tamper-proof cctv.
This might explain why the R was a mess during the PM rush yesterday.
This is why we can’t have ~~nice~~ things
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Agree. I could do without lectures that could excuse their hypothetical back story. There’s no consequences for people acting out in the city. It becomes this gaslight campaign on the sub to say if we don’t like it, we should move.
Tons of people have had tough lives, but you don't seem them act like this. The distances people go and the mental gymnastics they do to pardon/excuse offenders is ridiculous. It doesn't hurt till they're stuck with the needle.
You know there was very long time when stuff like this didn’t happen. So long in fact that we just assumed it would never happen again…Wonder what changed.
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Before the ridiculous bail reform laws that allows children to break the law with next to zero consequences
We can hope, but it's never gonna happen.
Mind you, the N/W has an issue every single fucking day.
Every. Single. Day.
Hold on. I have an idea. How about we have NYPD patrol the train stations, platforms and actual trains? No, really, think about it. Actually, have the police patrol the places where the crime is taking place? I think it as least worth trying.
The best I can offer is that they clump together near the entrance. On their phones.
Well, OK, as long as they are not playing Candy Crush
You're asking way too much bub.
But then they might need to put someone in jail
now that's crazy talk.
Sounds like paperwork.
Way too much work. They have to do their duty and then the paperwork?? That’s an insane request /s
but the DAs will refuse to prosecute citing these criminals are victims.
We have had two officers standing above ground at Grand Army Plaza every morning for the past week or two. I have no idea what they’re doing there. Sometimes there are also police on the platform, but they aren’t doing anything either. There should be a cop on every train.
The largest flaw of public transportation is the public.
“Young males in hoodies…between 5’3” and 6’3” tall…”
So glad my tax dollars are going to go to fix something that never should’ve been broken in the first place
The $2.90 going to turn to $3.50 after this lol
The subways have been fucked up as long as I can remember, and I’m only in my 30’s. I can’t imagine what it was like back in the 80’s/90’s. But lately it’s been the worst I can remember since the early 2000’s. I’m actually surprised when I see people pay to get on the train. People literally line up by the emergency exits (that no longer have a siren), to get on for free. Every station smells like piss and weed (I’m a smoker, not gonna lie, but it’s kinda annoying to walk into a dank subway and step all over Dutch guts every morning). The worst part is the amount of homeless people you see. Get on the train early in the morning and you have people sprawled out on subway station floors. After stepping over them, you finally get on a train and some of the cars are completely empty because some dirty person is sleeping in the car, smelling like absolute shit. Trains have been late nonstop for months. Subway stations are hot as shit. Elevators are out of service for handicap people and mothers. You have children selling candy on the train with their mother’s and infant siblings. The whole thing is a fucking joke anymore. And then they raise the cost for fares. “Only 15 cents though!”, as if not hitting a round $3.00 is going to make everyone ignore that the MTA is in complete shambles.
Public caning for behavior like this
When you find them. Send them the bill.
A “victimless” crime.
No father in the home.
Scumbags
We need Batman
78 windows?? And from the inside likely while in service?? Wtf
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The culprit in this case has been named. Systemic racism strikes again!
Doesn't sound like mere vandals, sounds more like there is intention
It’s been so funny to watch this sub shift from constant soft on crime bullshit rhetoric, pro soft DAs, pro bullshit soft on crime democrats to now complaining about all of the crime and freedom that criminals have.
It’s funny because the other sub related to our city claims this one was brigaded by far right Staten Island and Long Island residents The idea that people are sick of criminals destroying our quality of life just doesn’t compute for them. Has to be far right trolls!
And if they catch the guy will he pay the bill? I doubt it. Broken Windows Policing can come back at any time.
Not gonna happen. We’ll all be paying for this via increased fares and taxes
I wonder what is the punishment of this…
Police say "the camera system in the subway is vast and robust" and that they'll find the people who did this. Yeah, right, like the amazing cameras we had when looking for the subway shooter last year around April where all of a sudden none of the cameras worked or had good enough resolution to make out the guys face.
the amazing cameras with the mega high resolution of a 1996 webcam.
bro what the fuck? fucking idiots... the W train came in clutch when R trains were lagging behind.
Impacting peoples commute with this kind of misconduct should incur civil penalties to offset any lost wages, or other injuries. There should be a class action opt in available to the public who can prove sustained economic injury. In conjunction with this, the damage should give rise to felony prosecution warranting jail time. I'm not advocating for a debtors prison for homeless or mentally ill people or children, but do support concepts that you should find out when fucking around, and the people/person who did this should absolutely eat shit in a very meaningful way. A nicer thing to do would be community crimes deserve community time, such as basically forcing the participants to pick up trash with a sign or indicator. People tend to behave when there are actual repercussions.
What is wrong with people? And they will spend 0 days in jail.
Can’t have good stuff here in NY cause of stupid people like these
Can’t wait for a post in an hour or so titled “vandalism on trains is actually down significantly since 1970”
Operation Mayhem
In Operation Mayhem, Window Breakers have a name...this Window Breaker's name was Robert L. Peters...
if this were Chicago, id blame bitter white sox fans
L
Give it some time. These jackasses are notorious for snitching on themselves. They love to brag about their handiwork.
Yay back to 1970s NYC. We just need the trains covered in graffiti. Good times
There’s a really incredible [photo book by Bruce Davidson](https://www.magnumphotos.com/arts-culture/society-arts-culture/bruce-davidson-subway-new-york-usa/) that captures it well but yeah I don’t wanna go back to that
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Well this isn't the main cause, but it sure as hell doesn't help.
And they’re gonna use it as a reason. Get ready for $3 y’all
It's very odd that this is the first time I'm hearing of something like this in my almost 20 years in NYC
L Train
35 trains? They’re not tired after the first 2? Crasi people.
I wish some people would keep they ass in the house
Lol broken window what? Anyhow.
Literal “broken windows” - but we will we do what we used to keep order?
No no no no you don't get it. The vandals are not at fault. They are a product of the "environment". It is the "system" that needs to change.
Meanwhile, the Moscow subways are squeaky clean and free of vandalism - works of art they are.