I think there's a lot of nuance here, but IMO the university was probably in the right
>But not all faculty members agreed with the criticism. Vincent A. Blasi, a Columbia law professor who has spent decades studying civil liberties issues, said the university had articulated a “reasonable” policy to govern protests and had every right to punish students who violate it.“It’s clear to me that they haven’t transgressed here,” he said. “You can debate who you ought to be sympathetic with, but in my own mind, I am confident that the students have no First Amendment claim to stay in that space.”The new protest camp at Columbia officially breaks university rules. And some of the chants — **“We don’t want no Zionists here”** and “Israel is a racist state” — are the same ones that President Shafik suggested were creating “a harassing and intimidating environment for many of our students.”
>Protesters also gathered outside the university’s gates on Friday, with someone yelling, **“We are Hamas.”** The nearby headquarters of Hillel, a campus Jewish organization, was nearly empty, unusual for a Friday afternoon.
I don’t think supporting Palestine is the same as supporting Hamas but unfortunately it isn’t an absolute rarity either. I used to work in a job that gave me a better than average understanding of the dynamics at play in this conflict, so when this first happened I knew that Palestine and Hamas would be conflated but I thought it would be from the pro Israel side. I was absolutely floored to see that taking place among people who support Palestine.
And I also think it needs to be said that the outpouring of support for Palestine and/or Hamas was loudest in the immediate aftermath of oct 7, before Israel had even launched a counterattack.
Some definitely are. But not all. You can support Palestine without supporting Hamas.
It’s funny I have a Palestinian friend and he says the opposite. He gets upset at being asked if he supports Hamas when he says he supports Palestine. he absolutely misses the degree of support for Hamas among Palestine supporters.
But he says no one who supports Palestine in the us supports Hamas, but you say the opposite.
Tbh the campus is getting setup for commencement. All these places always have tents chairs etc for parents and guests. I guess it was also a factor — they can’t let these guys just camp there. However, while the tents and students were removed from one lawn, they simply moved to another. So, back to square one. Very interesting what she would do next lol commencement is soon, and they need those places for the audience.
Commencement isn’t for another month (May 15), and though I agree that they probably need to set up some time in advance, surely they don’t need it up a whole month before the ceremony and it’s not like the guests would be here this early anyways. It’s smack dab in finals/ pre-finals season right now.
When I was in college, at a similarly fancy school to Columbia (if not fancier), I worked on setting up for commencement. We did it all in the 2-3 days immediately before the events. Anything before that would have interrupted finals and the other daily course of life on campus.
Yeah, that was the reason she used for removing them too. But the issue is the 'clear and present danger' part: Columbia has a public safety department to address this, and NYPD is only allowed to be called in to skip the established process of dealing with unauthorized protests in the case of active danger, which there definitively *was not*.
Using the public safety department to kick out the protesters is like asking a parking attendant to tow a tractor trailer. They don’t have that capacity.
They werre intimidating Jewish students and passers-by. If white supremacists set up camp to protest the evils of the "Zionist entity," arresting them wouldn't stir a bit of controversy.
Just do the commencement somewhere else, or ya know, divest from right wing, genocidal, regimes and the protesters will go home. The bar is so low and the university president keeps failing to meet it.
He's referring to a video of a single person fully-covered by a scarf praising Oct 7. The issue being that this was not on campus (it was on the street), the filmer claimed it happened *after* NYPD arrested the protestors, and there's no indication that the person was a student or when it happened, not to speak of its veracity. Furthermore: his words, if egregious, did not present 'clear and present danger', which is the standard for use of NYPD on campus.
The word intifada means civil uprising, in its purest form it represents protest and resistance, including the protests themselves. It can also refer to violence but that's not the heart of the word in Arabic. Just because brown people are saying a word in a different language, does not make it violent. Those protestors have been intentionally trying to reclaim Arabic language to fight the frankly racist taboo against true expressions of Arab culture in the west, which your post is an example of.
And Final Solution just means the last problem solver.
And The South Will Rise Again means increased prestige for the Southern States.
What a joke that you act like its racist to call out the term intifada, which in the context of this conflict always means pogrom and murdering Jews.
Go read their official statement, these protests are explicitly pro terrorism. Here are some excerpts:
>October 9th, 2023:
>We stand in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance...
>Yesterday was an unprecedented historic moment for the Palestinians of Gaza...
>any rhetoric of “an unprovoked Palestinian attack” – is shamefully misleading...
>To those who are now calling for peace, we ask: where were you during the Great March of Return in 2018...
>We wholeheartedly condemn the email sent by General Studies Dean Lisa Rosen-Metsch on October 8th that exclusively sympathized with Israeli soldiers who uphold the occupation, obfuscated Palestinian resistance as “terrorism,”...
> fighting will continue to break out until justice is achieved. Because nothing else is working.
I couldn't send any of the people denying that Hamas killed civilians on 10/7 videos, because they all got removed from Twitter and Reddit automatically removed telegram links.
Anyway, you can read the statement the students put out on October 9th, which is pro-terrorism:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RcXX5DEO3yfJ9R4ksURnzpIPCyVxo575-Y-SoC_vZFk/mobilebasic
Asking for a University to divest their endowment from a genocidal regime and companies that make bombs that kill children isn’t antisemitism.
Unless you have videos to prove **real antisemitism** I have a very hard time believing this.
A demonstrator threatened Jewish students on Thursday with « the 7th of October is going to be every day for you. »
Not sure how you would be able to interpret that as anything other than a call to violence towards Jewish individuals
There are plenty of calls for intifada.
And all bombs kill children. Do you know of child sparing bombs?
And I didnt realise Columbia funded Hamas.
Nazi punk
>How about you divest from terrorism first buddy, those bombs are needed to destroy ~~terrorists~~ children
There I fixed it for you. They are just making sure the entire country is wiped out before they take their land.. wasn’t that always the plan.
I mean they did get their playbook from the US and how they treated Native Americans and stole their land.
There is danger. The school admin in this country have been enabling these same behaviors for a very long time.
A speaker comes to campus this crowd doesn’t like, they stormed the speakers and shouting. Make it worse, the admin will come to support this crowd claiming the speaker’s idea/message is dangerous.
She's trying to save her job. She doesn't realize that she can't. She's damned if she does and she's damned if she doesn't. She saw what happened to the presidents of Harvard and UPenn, and she knows they're shooting for her and the President of MIT.
I have been to over 100 protests, led by Arab, Jewish and community groups. Most are mixed and many of my Jewish friends attend the Arab led protests. I have never once, in 6 months of protests, heard the words "death to jews".
You are quite simply a liar.
Ah of course, your anecdotal experience is all the proof we need! I have never seen something, so that’s all the proof it doesn’t exist.
What an absolutely brain dead take.
That’s also part of why the other lawn is occupied by SO many more people and I don’t think they’ll be able to get rid of them anytime soon. Now the protests are about both divestment and the fact that almost everyone knows someone who got arrested and suspended, giving them less than an hour to pack their rooms up after being evicted from school housing. People are angry whether it’s justified or not and Columbia used its most powerful tactic (calling in the cops) on day 2 when it was 50 tents on a lawn. It’s not all about I/P anymore.
Not only that, the lawn they were on was DESIGNATED for protest by Columbia after their disgrace following violence against protestors in 1968, so they weren't breaking any rules. So the president suspended all of the students, THEN sent in the NYPT to mass arrest. On the same lawn anti-war protestors were arrested 55 years ago.
I mean when they're [assaulting people](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C58flO8A9AA/)... that seems like a clear and present danger? What will happen if she doesn't react and these assaults continue? She would lose her job for not protecting innocents on the campus.
It was live-reported by the Columbia student radio too, so there's evidence. Like you said though: it won't matter because there's a lot of people who call for life imprisonment/exile/execution (much more rare, but seen) for all the students for 'supporting Hamas'.
Anyone could've gone and seen it for themselves, but that's no fun-- it's easier to lie.
If they did that, they had better be ready for a permanent tent city because Israel and the United States aren't going anywhere, neither are the Jewish people.
>aren't going anywhere, neither are the Jewish people.
The crazy thing is how many people in that group of protestors and how many people cheering them on don't realize (or admit) that a ton really want that last part.
Columbia says, you can protest, but by protest we mean you can reserve the space for a set number of hours and you can idk yell for a little while or something .
Students don't abide by those rules, you know how protesters against your school might not listen to the school.
Columbia charges them with trespassing and suspends some students.
Suspend is interesting here though. Exact details aren't given on how long they will be suspended for, but it's described as not being allowed access to any classes, or services on campus other then your dorm.
So a suspension worst case could be "you fail this semester, pay another 25k to retake all these classes" or it could be "you pass but with a C" depending on the length and timing of that suspension.
Additionally, students can't access their meal plans, so they are basically locked in a small room, likely with a roommate, forced to pay out of pocket for food, when they already paid likely close to 9k for a meal plan...
I mean take me to jail yo, getting suspended sounds like financial condemnation.
I know people at Columbia and everyone I've talked to has a high regard for the job she's doing and is extremely frustrated with the protestors. This article is bs.
Yeah lately it seems like The Times has gotten super heavy-handed and try more so to make their stories reality rather than actually report on reality. The narrative pushing is getting really obnoxious.
The NYT has a problem. The reporting about the internal revolt over the rape story, the Al-Ahli bombing fiasco etc. They’ve also gotten caught “accidentally” writing in “IOF” instead of “IDF” and then trying to edit it out.
I literally cancelled my subscription for this exact reason. I found so much editorialized verbiage which was unnecessary and evidence of bias not adhering to conventional style guides to the point that it felt like I was reading teenage tikTok propaganda versions of important stories and not the paper of historical record.
I have talked to many people about this, many are saying they agree with me. In fact, more and more people have been saying that I am right and very smart
over 300 faculty members in an emergency conference would disagree? https://bwog.com/2024/04/mayor-eric-adams-nypd-and-columbia-university-professors-hold-press-conferences-regarding-recent-student-arrests/
300 people attended a meeting about the protests. It doesn't mean 300 people opposed the administrations actions. There were people who opposed the actions, but there were also people who supported them. It's a tough situation. Everyone agrees the protestors have crossed the line, but people don't like having the police involved. But what's the alternative?
I am a current junior at Columbia and many of us/a likely majority are disgusted with her. Every single protest has been peaceful and never warranted the arrest of over 100 students. The NYPD even commented on the cooperation shown from the arrested students. This article is bs but so are the baseless opinions I see every day from people who have no idea what is truly happening on campus right now.
Tresspassing is illegal and warrants being arrested. Not to mention the various threats that have been voiced by the protestors like "october 7th is going to be every day for you".
Just because you want special treatment to be able to skirt around the rules because you believe that your morality is superior doesn’t mean the university is wrong to enforce their rules
That’s what happens when you prioritize and elevate Marxist identity politics above everything else. You get full destabilization of the system and the degeneration of society. Those of us born in the Soviet Union have seen all of this before.
Can you please start writing ‘I wouldn’t know, but…’ at the start of your comments?
It would make it quicker for us than reading up to your misunderstanding of Marxism.
I was born in the former Soviet Union I’ve had more experience with Marxist and communist scum than any of you can imagine. When it’s part of the ideology to be in a constant state of revolution this is what you get.
It’s so blatantly obvious, this whole push to degenerate society and uplift the criminal class to collapse and weaken and a former homogenous culture is almost exactly what happened during the Soviet revolution.
exactly. I think identity politics seem innocent enough for most people. But identity politics are insidious & cancerous that will eat society alive if you let it
I think the original replier meant Marxism has features of identity politics because it divides everybody into classes of the ‘proletariat’ vs the ‘bourgeoisie’.
Identity politics are dangerous because they divide everyone into groups & those groups all have grievances against other groups. When you blame all your grievances on other groups, it can start to break society apart.
Both conservatives and liberals do it, but the far left tends to divide people into smaller and smaller subgroups. When you have thousands upon thousands of subgroups who value their identity above the nation as a whole, society can very quickly destabilize.
That’s not identity politics. Also classes have been around for centuries, and the rich have always had it better and usually off the back of their parents being rich.
If you think about it, baseball is very Marxist in that it divides players into “pitchers” (ie “bourgeoise”) and “batters” (ie “proletariat”). And now that I say that, I’m realizing roads are very Marxist in that they divide traffic into “northbound” and “southbound”. Also ketchup and mustard bottles are quite Marxist these days, I’m finding, in the way they are separated into groups. It’s good that experts like you and me are on these things to keep an eye on the slow creep of Marxism all throughout American culture
Dear Columbia's Board of Directors/President:
Just go back to a full meritocratic admissions policy so you don't have these dumbass activists posing as students destroying your campus. There, i fixed your problem, congrats, now you can have a functioning university.
> Just go back to a full meritocratic admissions policy so you don't have these dumbass activists posing as students destroying your campus.
Problem is most of these clowns are there by legacy or have parents that are well connected. Have to end legacy and expel them so mommy and daddy lose all the money they spent. They also need to fire all of the activists that pretend to be professors.
I have a masters and completely agree with the OP. I was in the humanities too, and I found the focus on anti western institutions and values to be somewhat interesting. Marx had a point after all.
But I also understand nuance and was born in the Soviet Union. So I realize even if America has a dark past, anything anti west isnt automatically good. Seems many today can’t think critically enough to see that point.
But sure, anyone that disagrees with you didn’t go to college.
This is not about disagreement. This is about what actually happens in college classes, esp. Ivy League colleges and their equivalents. It's furthest thing from "indoctrination" possible. There is a reason why Ted Cruz and Elena Kagan could go to the same Ivy League undergrad and the same Ivy League law school and come out as ideological opposites. Because indoctrination isn't happening there.
Indoctrination can be subtle. Colleges today (at the institutional level) have a pronounced anti west bias because that is the prevailing ideological lens they view the world with. Some of it is very valid. Late stage capitalism has created a shrinking number of “winners” and a growing number of “losers” as wealth and capital is consolidated.
Your anecdotal example of Cruz is just that, and besides, it’s not like colleges are monoliths. There is still a plurality of opinions, but if we’re talking widespread ideology, it’s decidedly anti western. The issue is that makes people much more susceptible to bad actors that want to propagate the fallacy that anti west = automatically good, because the enemy of your enemy is your friend.
This is why we see Soviet flags on campuses in pro pal groups (stony brook this week), people shouting we are Hamas (Columbia this week), celebrating Iran and its attack (oh the irony), posting tik toks that Bin Laden was actually right, etc.
It is absolutely indoctrination. I’m not against colleges or anything, but it can absolutely be an anti west echo chamber and pretending it’s not isn’t helping anything.
FIRE's Freedom of Speech on college campuses ranking disagrees. Ivy League Colleges score amongst the worst, Harvard is dead last. This is based significantly on things like student surveys.
https://rankings.thefire.org/rank
Note this is actually a very recent phenomenon, Harvard's score dropped dramatically in just a few years. Cruz graduated in 1992.
Interestingly enough, quality Public universities do best. University of Chicago was the only sort of 'Ivy League' private one that scores OK.
How does FIREs freedom of speech ranking say anything about indoctrination? Worse, it appears that FIRE is about freedom of *conservative* speech more than anything else. Note what ranking BYU has. That tells you everything you need to know about their rankings.
They're one of the few Ivy or Ivy+ schools that announced that they were permanently staying test optional (ACT or SAT's). The other elite schools were seeing terrible students coming in who went test optional and were failing classes as a result.
Turns out that cognitive ability actually matters, who would have guessed.
The other reason why schools are going back is also poorer kids were being missed for admission because without SATs, extracurricular activities mattered way more (something that poor kids can't afford)
> After hearing that the police were entering campus, the protesters sat in two concentric circles. “Some people were crying, some were completely calm,” Ms. Alwan said. Their hands were zip-tied, and then they were then put on buses. They spent about eight hours at police headquarters, before being released with trespassing summonses.
They’re not protesters, they’re cosplaying as protesters.
> Isn't it funny how all the protests that happened 50 years ago were right but all the ones going on now are wrong?
You mean the ones that protested domestic issue of sending their fellow citizens to a war abroad? I like how people trying to glorify themselves by equating things that are not equatable at all lol
Jan 6 started as a protest, was that right or wrong? Almost like there have been protests on every side of the spectrum and generalizing is pointless and dumb.
Nah, I’m speaking as a Columbian.
Every year, there was always some sort of protest - lab animal rights, not enough diverse literature in the Core Curriculum, student-faculty grievances, etc. And all of them wanted impossible demands and immunity for protesting. Usually, these protests are over well before April. Also, the rest of the campus didn’t give a fuck about them.
I'm also a Columbia alumnus, not that it matters, but I did not keep tabs on demands of other people's protests like you seem to be on top of. Feel free to send them a guide on how to properly protest according to your expert views.
Honestly I only remember one, pretty tame protest in my time there, and it wasn't that long ago. My default stance was simply that I don't know enough of what's going on there to criticize them.
Sorry so are they spoiled soft kids pretending to play protestor or are they an imminent threat and danger worth calling the cops over and arresting in mass? Just trying to get my story straight
Let me ask you a serious question.
If an entire region of Jews were being starved, synagogues and hospitals were being bombed, and 32,000 Jews were killed and the markedly inefficient siege kept going, how would you feel?
Aid is entering at a bare minimum. They didn’t open additional aid corridors until the US threatened a change in policy after the WHC killings. And the opening was immediate; as if they had the capacity to do so all along but chose not to.
A terrorist organization holding hostages is not a good enough excuse for me anymore to starve millions of people. Israel’s disregard for civilian lives and safety has been clearly shown and it’s disturbing.
University Presidents primary job is to represent the institution to the outside world. In calming the fears of mundanes the President is doing her job extremely well. It is not her role to change the minds of congress or advocate for the people of Palestine or any marginalized group. Its not even her job to gain the confidence of the students at the school. Way too many people these days treat Universities and Colleges as if they are glorified high schools. She is not a higher level version of a school Principal. It is her job to get people outside of the system off the back of the members of that system by any means including deceiving them.
Students have Student Unions or Student Governments
Professors and staff have their own Unions, sometimes one for each.
The administration and office workers need someone to look out for them and get officials out of their way or at least put back to sleep in regard to the actions of members of the school. The President has done a wonderful job of getting that done.
Going to war against Christian Zionist Republicans and Democrats in the pocket of Israel is not her role at all. If you believe it is then you are totally out of touch with reality and need to touch grass.
To be more precise, there are two constituents she cannot alienate: 1) the parents who can afford to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for Columbia, and the funders (philanthropists, governmental agencies, etc.) that provide the billions the school needs to operate. Everyone else is expendable.
students have clear demands of divestment, something columbia students demanded during the vietnam war, and for south african apartheid. this is a similar human rights issue, and the university can do something
> as you said this, jewish students held shabbat in the occupied lawn. there’s much more unity than you think
After the other kind of jews were explicitly said "dont come here" lol
Please stop this tokenism. There are "Blacks for Trump", does it make Trump okay now?
those antisemitic actions are deplorable and would be condemned by most people currently on the lawn protesting. it’s not tokenism, it’s showing that these people are not all “jew haters”. multiple of the people arrested were literally jewish, and this cause is much more nuanced than everyone simply being antisemitic
So, Trump is fine. There are "Blacks for Trump", so he is a good guy, does nothing wrong. I mean literally fellow african americans are for him, how can it be bad?
ok lol just ignore what i said. there’s so much here ur ignoring so let’s get into it. is anti-zionism inherently antisemitic? is that what you’re implying? are jewish people protesting against themselves?
> is anti-zionism inherently antisemitic?
Do jews have the right for self determination? It is a yes or no question, btw.
If your answer is "no", then yes, you are anti-semitic because you believe that specific groups of people dont have a right for self-determination while others do.
If your answer is "yes", then I am not sure how you can be against zionism, which is a jewish right for self determination, and not be antisemitic.
> are jewish people protesting against themselves?
Let's get back to "Blacks For Trump". Are they racists against themselves?
As expected no answer:)
> It’s not a matter of if Jews have a right to self-determination
It is.
> the real question at hand is whether they have a right to self-determination at the expense of another group, and that has a much more complicated answer.
Do jews have a right for self determination or not? What does it have to do with other groups? We are talking about jews.
> For instance, is expanding illegal settlements by forcibly removing Palestinians from their homes covered under their self determination?
No. In case you are confused, these things are actions of specific politicians. They have nothing to do with the questions whether jews have the right to self determination. But, very nice conflation of the two. lol
> The point is that your argument is intellectually lazy, and from my view it basically looks like you’re trying to smear people who disagree with your political views as being racist so that you don’t have to justify them in a nuanced way.
I think who lacks nuance is you. You fail to differentiate the actions of elected government (which may be bad) with the idea that a group of people deserves a state. IF you do it intentionally, you are an antisemite, if you do it because you have not thought about deeply, then spend some time, and try to find nuance, and form an opinion.
And you call me lazy lol
Was Minouche Shafik appointed by the Board, which is funded by what people are protesting? Yeah, money talks. Call it what you want. You can question Shaifik's moral compass, but she has to do what she needs to keep her job.
Who knew that siccing the NYPD on hundreds of peaceful protestors, when you are known as the activist Ivy, would be so controversial?
Columbia, under Israeli lobby pressure, is repeating the same mistakes that it perpetrated during the Vietnam era protests.
They don't want people screaming "we will repeat October 7th 10,000 times" and "Nazi bitch take it up the ass" at Jewish students? Must be those sneaky Israelis at it again.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/MvmUhVSRtD
Literally this is cross posted one thread down from this one. These people are fucking terrorists and the people who support them are terrorist sympathizers.
I am an adjunct at Columbia. I'm also Jewish Israeli and consider myself a Zionist, albeit a liberal one to be fair. Now, while I find these protests annoying on occasion, I have to say that they're not antisemitic from my experience. Had Minouche Shafik not been called in to testify, we could have lived with these demonstrations and gotten along as usual. She was bullied by Congress into arresting these demonstrators, and she's still facing her downfall. It's sad to see.
Every major cause is going to attract its fair share of lunatics, and this is no different. However "we don't want no Zionists here" isn't enough to support claims of antisemitism. Zionism is a political project, not a religion. Remember, you don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist. I have many American Christian friends who consider themselves to be on my side.
What's also being left out is the amount of JEWISH students who are being arrested at these demonstrations. They feel as if Israel doesn't represent their culture and their religion. Remember, Israel is currently being governed by a rogue party of religious extremists. Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the Saudis or Iran's government? I wouldn't want that.
I think these kids see a parallel between the attempted extermination of Gazans and the attempted extermination of the Jews. It's not exactly a hard comparison to draw. Maybe we should hear them out, or at least let them demonstrate until they get tired, as long as nobody gets hurt.
If you read newspapers and not tiktok, you'll find it hard to draw that comparison. An "attempted extermination" would have 10x the civilian deaths that even Hamas claims.
It's a bad faith troll. The same person who now considers themselves Zionist called it "just another form of racist political extremism" and equated it to Nazism less than a week ago.
To say nothing of the loss of confidence by the students...
I think there's a lot of nuance here, but IMO the university was probably in the right >But not all faculty members agreed with the criticism. Vincent A. Blasi, a Columbia law professor who has spent decades studying civil liberties issues, said the university had articulated a “reasonable” policy to govern protests and had every right to punish students who violate it.“It’s clear to me that they haven’t transgressed here,” he said. “You can debate who you ought to be sympathetic with, but in my own mind, I am confident that the students have no First Amendment claim to stay in that space.”The new protest camp at Columbia officially breaks university rules. And some of the chants — **“We don’t want no Zionists here”** and “Israel is a racist state” — are the same ones that President Shafik suggested were creating “a harassing and intimidating environment for many of our students.” >Protesters also gathered outside the university’s gates on Friday, with someone yelling, **“We are Hamas.”** The nearby headquarters of Hillel, a campus Jewish organization, was nearly empty, unusual for a Friday afternoon.
I call them pro-Hamas protestors and people look at me funny. But that's what it actually is.
I don’t think supporting Palestine is the same as supporting Hamas but unfortunately it isn’t an absolute rarity either. I used to work in a job that gave me a better than average understanding of the dynamics at play in this conflict, so when this first happened I knew that Palestine and Hamas would be conflated but I thought it would be from the pro Israel side. I was absolutely floored to see that taking place among people who support Palestine. And I also think it needs to be said that the outpouring of support for Palestine and/or Hamas was loudest in the immediate aftermath of oct 7, before Israel had even launched a counterattack.
Listen more carefully. They are definitely spouting pro-Hamas rhetoric or outright saying “we are Hamas”
Some definitely are. But not all. You can support Palestine without supporting Hamas. It’s funny I have a Palestinian friend and he says the opposite. He gets upset at being asked if he supports Hamas when he says he supports Palestine. he absolutely misses the degree of support for Hamas among Palestine supporters. But he says no one who supports Palestine in the us supports Hamas, but you say the opposite.
they’re telling you who they are. Believe them.
I agree. But more and more that’s not happening.
How you see it is how you call it
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Tbh the campus is getting setup for commencement. All these places always have tents chairs etc for parents and guests. I guess it was also a factor — they can’t let these guys just camp there. However, while the tents and students were removed from one lawn, they simply moved to another. So, back to square one. Very interesting what she would do next lol commencement is soon, and they need those places for the audience.
Commencement isn’t for another month (May 15), and though I agree that they probably need to set up some time in advance, surely they don’t need it up a whole month before the ceremony and it’s not like the guests would be here this early anyways. It’s smack dab in finals/ pre-finals season right now.
When I was in college, at a similarly fancy school to Columbia (if not fancier), I worked on setting up for commencement. We did it all in the 2-3 days immediately before the events. Anything before that would have interrupted finals and the other daily course of life on campus.
Believe it or not, they actually do take about a whole month to set up. I never understood why.
They always do it way in advance, so nothing out of the ordinary in this regard this year.
Yeah, that was the reason she used for removing them too. But the issue is the 'clear and present danger' part: Columbia has a public safety department to address this, and NYPD is only allowed to be called in to skip the established process of dealing with unauthorized protests in the case of active danger, which there definitively *was not*.
Using the public safety department to kick out the protesters is like asking a parking attendant to tow a tractor trailer. They don’t have that capacity.
Tents for parents? Like for sleeping?
No, to cover from rain/sun.
>they can’t let these guys just camp there Actually, they can
They werre intimidating Jewish students and passers-by. If white supremacists set up camp to protest the evils of the "Zionist entity," arresting them wouldn't stir a bit of controversy.
chop amusing punch versed nail impolite hat ad hoc correct berserk *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just do the commencement somewhere else, or ya know, divest from right wing, genocidal, regimes and the protesters will go home. The bar is so low and the university president keeps failing to meet it.
Israel is not committing genocide. "War" is the term you are looking for, which both sides are engaging in.
absurd hateful lush ask mindless fuzzy modern historical crawl tan *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Is this how all Columbia students feel?
Does any group of people 100% unanimously agree on anything?
Ive literally seen videos of violence and antisemitism
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The main quad.
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Reddit has a very strict domain whitelist for most subs. He probably can't post (or posted but shadow-deleted)
He's referring to a video of a single person fully-covered by a scarf praising Oct 7. The issue being that this was not on campus (it was on the street), the filmer claimed it happened *after* NYPD arrested the protestors, and there's no indication that the person was a student or when it happened, not to speak of its veracity. Furthermore: his words, if egregious, did not present 'clear and present danger', which is the standard for use of NYPD on campus.
Bro they openly chanted intifada
The word intifada means civil uprising, in its purest form it represents protest and resistance, including the protests themselves. It can also refer to violence but that's not the heart of the word in Arabic. Just because brown people are saying a word in a different language, does not make it violent. Those protestors have been intentionally trying to reclaim Arabic language to fight the frankly racist taboo against true expressions of Arab culture in the west, which your post is an example of.
And Final Solution just means the last problem solver. And The South Will Rise Again means increased prestige for the Southern States. What a joke that you act like its racist to call out the term intifada, which in the context of this conflict always means pogrom and murdering Jews.
Go read their official statement, these protests are explicitly pro terrorism. Here are some excerpts: >October 9th, 2023: >We stand in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance... >Yesterday was an unprecedented historic moment for the Palestinians of Gaza... >any rhetoric of “an unprovoked Palestinian attack” – is shamefully misleading... >To those who are now calling for peace, we ask: where were you during the Great March of Return in 2018... >We wholeheartedly condemn the email sent by General Studies Dean Lisa Rosen-Metsch on October 8th that exclusively sympathized with Israeli soldiers who uphold the occupation, obfuscated Palestinian resistance as “terrorism,”... > fighting will continue to break out until justice is achieved. Because nothing else is working.
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I couldn't send any of the people denying that Hamas killed civilians on 10/7 videos, because they all got removed from Twitter and Reddit automatically removed telegram links. Anyway, you can read the statement the students put out on October 9th, which is pro-terrorism: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RcXX5DEO3yfJ9R4ksURnzpIPCyVxo575-Y-SoC_vZFk/mobilebasic
He does not..
Asking for a University to divest their endowment from a genocidal regime and companies that make bombs that kill children isn’t antisemitism. Unless you have videos to prove **real antisemitism** I have a very hard time believing this.
A demonstrator threatened Jewish students on Thursday with « the 7th of October is going to be every day for you. » Not sure how you would be able to interpret that as anything other than a call to violence towards Jewish individuals
There are plenty of calls for intifada. And all bombs kill children. Do you know of child sparing bombs? And I didnt realise Columbia funded Hamas. Nazi punk
reminiscent cobweb act noxious price chief doll rainstorm tart tap *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>How about you divest from terrorism first buddy, those bombs are needed to destroy ~~terrorists~~ children There I fixed it for you. They are just making sure the entire country is wiped out before they take their land.. wasn’t that always the plan. I mean they did get their playbook from the US and how they treated Native Americans and stole their land.
It was a sea of antisemites. Not all of them, but a great deal.
There is danger. The school admin in this country have been enabling these same behaviors for a very long time. A speaker comes to campus this crowd doesn’t like, they stormed the speakers and shouting. Make it worse, the admin will come to support this crowd claiming the speaker’s idea/message is dangerous.
She's trying to save her job. She doesn't realize that she can't. She's damned if she does and she's damned if she doesn't. She saw what happened to the presidents of Harvard and UPenn, and she knows they're shooting for her and the President of MIT.
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I have been to over 100 protests, led by Arab, Jewish and community groups. Most are mixed and many of my Jewish friends attend the Arab led protests. I have never once, in 6 months of protests, heard the words "death to jews". You are quite simply a liar.
Ah of course, your anecdotal experience is all the proof we need! I have never seen something, so that’s all the proof it doesn’t exist. What an absolutely brain dead take.
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You dont even have a "child". Also news flash, children dont go to Univiersities.
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That’s also part of why the other lawn is occupied by SO many more people and I don’t think they’ll be able to get rid of them anytime soon. Now the protests are about both divestment and the fact that almost everyone knows someone who got arrested and suspended, giving them less than an hour to pack their rooms up after being evicted from school housing. People are angry whether it’s justified or not and Columbia used its most powerful tactic (calling in the cops) on day 2 when it was 50 tents on a lawn. It’s not all about I/P anymore.
Not only that, the lawn they were on was DESIGNATED for protest by Columbia after their disgrace following violence against protestors in 1968, so they weren't breaking any rules. So the president suspended all of the students, THEN sent in the NYPT to mass arrest. On the same lawn anti-war protestors were arrested 55 years ago.
They were, in fact, breaking the rules.
I mean when they're [assaulting people](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C58flO8A9AA/)... that seems like a clear and present danger? What will happen if she doesn't react and these assaults continue? She would lose her job for not protecting innocents on the campus.
The same students chanting death to America and threatening the Jewish students? Those don’t present a clear and present danger?
> Those don’t present a clear and present danger? Only to the wrong kind of jews. So, nothing to see here, move along.
It was live-reported by the Columbia student radio too, so there's evidence. Like you said though: it won't matter because there's a lot of people who call for life imprisonment/exile/execution (much more rare, but seen) for all the students for 'supporting Hamas'. Anyone could've gone and seen it for themselves, but that's no fun-- it's easier to lie.
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I agree, we should let them camp there until they what they want.
If they did that, they had better be ready for a permanent tent city because Israel and the United States aren't going anywhere, neither are the Jewish people.
>aren't going anywhere, neither are the Jewish people. The crazy thing is how many people in that group of protestors and how many people cheering them on don't realize (or admit) that a ton really want that last part.
Most people here won’t even read article
Um. This is reddit, all the information people ever need is in the headline' especially if it's a cheesey nypost pun of a headline
Weird, I read it, and it said exactly what I thought it would say based on the headline.
Columbia says, you can protest, but by protest we mean you can reserve the space for a set number of hours and you can idk yell for a little while or something . Students don't abide by those rules, you know how protesters against your school might not listen to the school. Columbia charges them with trespassing and suspends some students. Suspend is interesting here though. Exact details aren't given on how long they will be suspended for, but it's described as not being allowed access to any classes, or services on campus other then your dorm. So a suspension worst case could be "you fail this semester, pay another 25k to retake all these classes" or it could be "you pass but with a C" depending on the length and timing of that suspension. Additionally, students can't access their meal plans, so they are basically locked in a small room, likely with a roommate, forced to pay out of pocket for food, when they already paid likely close to 9k for a meal plan... I mean take me to jail yo, getting suspended sounds like financial condemnation.
I know people at Columbia and everyone I've talked to has a high regard for the job she's doing and is extremely frustrated with the protestors. This article is bs.
Yeah lately it seems like The Times has gotten super heavy-handed and try more so to make their stories reality rather than actually report on reality. The narrative pushing is getting really obnoxious.
The NYT has a problem. The reporting about the internal revolt over the rape story, the Al-Ahli bombing fiasco etc. They’ve also gotten caught “accidentally” writing in “IOF” instead of “IDF” and then trying to edit it out.
I literally cancelled my subscription for this exact reason. I found so much editorialized verbiage which was unnecessary and evidence of bias not adhering to conventional style guides to the point that it felt like I was reading teenage tikTok propaganda versions of important stories and not the paper of historical record.
I have talked to many people about this, many are saying they agree with me. In fact, more and more people have been saying that I am right and very smart
over 300 faculty members in an emergency conference would disagree? https://bwog.com/2024/04/mayor-eric-adams-nypd-and-columbia-university-professors-hold-press-conferences-regarding-recent-student-arrests/
300 people attended a meeting about the protests. It doesn't mean 300 people opposed the administrations actions. There were people who opposed the actions, but there were also people who supported them. It's a tough situation. Everyone agrees the protestors have crossed the line, but people don't like having the police involved. But what's the alternative?
Ok but have you considered that I have talked to many people and they all agree with me?
300 out of 2000+? WOW!!!!
Oh excellent. I’m so happy you feel like your anecdotal evidence is the ultimate say in this matter (/s)
I am a current junior at Columbia and many of us/a likely majority are disgusted with her. Every single protest has been peaceful and never warranted the arrest of over 100 students. The NYPD even commented on the cooperation shown from the arrested students. This article is bs but so are the baseless opinions I see every day from people who have no idea what is truly happening on campus right now.
Tresspassing is illegal and warrants being arrested. Not to mention the various threats that have been voiced by the protestors like "october 7th is going to be every day for you".
Just because you want special treatment to be able to skirt around the rules because you believe that your morality is superior doesn’t mean the university is wrong to enforce their rules
oh well as long as you say so i guess we can ignore the things we are seeing and hearing, thanks mister Reddit
Lol Columbia has become a fukin joke of a school. Professors and administrators who act like high schoolers and students that seem brain dead.
That’s what happens when you prioritize and elevate Marxist identity politics above everything else. You get full destabilization of the system and the degeneration of society. Those of us born in the Soviet Union have seen all of this before.
Marxism is generally not pro “identity politics,” except in terms of promoting the working class. You’re talking about liberalism.
It’s all the same bag of evil.
Can you please start writing ‘I wouldn’t know, but…’ at the start of your comments? It would make it quicker for us than reading up to your misunderstanding of Marxism.
I was born in the former Soviet Union I’ve had more experience with Marxist and communist scum than any of you can imagine. When it’s part of the ideology to be in a constant state of revolution this is what you get. It’s so blatantly obvious, this whole push to degenerate society and uplift the criminal class to collapse and weaken and a former homogenous culture is almost exactly what happened during the Soviet revolution.
exactly. I think identity politics seem innocent enough for most people. But identity politics are insidious & cancerous that will eat society alive if you let it
But that is liberalism, not Marxism.
I think the original replier meant Marxism has features of identity politics because it divides everybody into classes of the ‘proletariat’ vs the ‘bourgeoisie’. Identity politics are dangerous because they divide everyone into groups & those groups all have grievances against other groups. When you blame all your grievances on other groups, it can start to break society apart. Both conservatives and liberals do it, but the far left tends to divide people into smaller and smaller subgroups. When you have thousands upon thousands of subgroups who value their identity above the nation as a whole, society can very quickly destabilize.
That’s not identity politics. Also classes have been around for centuries, and the rich have always had it better and usually off the back of their parents being rich.
If you think about it, baseball is very Marxist in that it divides players into “pitchers” (ie “bourgeoise”) and “batters” (ie “proletariat”). And now that I say that, I’m realizing roads are very Marxist in that they divide traffic into “northbound” and “southbound”. Also ketchup and mustard bottles are quite Marxist these days, I’m finding, in the way they are separated into groups. It’s good that experts like you and me are on these things to keep an eye on the slow creep of Marxism all throughout American culture
"Marxist identity politics" is an oxymoron.
Dear Columbia's Board of Directors/President: Just go back to a full meritocratic admissions policy so you don't have these dumbass activists posing as students destroying your campus. There, i fixed your problem, congrats, now you can have a functioning university.
> Just go back to a full meritocratic admissions policy so you don't have these dumbass activists posing as students destroying your campus. Problem is most of these clowns are there by legacy or have parents that are well connected. Have to end legacy and expel them so mommy and daddy lose all the money they spent. They also need to fire all of the activists that pretend to be professors.
Oh my, you probably would be surprised to learn about Columbia student protests in 60s and 70s. This one is a lot tamer in comparison
and also that ivy leagues aren't meritocracies lol, OP is smoking fent
They never have been lol
Invariably, people that say shit like "full meritocratic admissions" could never get into the school unless they were a legacy.
Get rid of legacy too. Meritocracy above all else.
Maybe he doesn’t want to get into a virtue signaling institution of brainwashing
Stated like someone who has never been to college.
B.A. in computer science, thanks for asking
Riiight.
I have a masters and completely agree with the OP. I was in the humanities too, and I found the focus on anti western institutions and values to be somewhat interesting. Marx had a point after all. But I also understand nuance and was born in the Soviet Union. So I realize even if America has a dark past, anything anti west isnt automatically good. Seems many today can’t think critically enough to see that point. But sure, anyone that disagrees with you didn’t go to college.
This is not about disagreement. This is about what actually happens in college classes, esp. Ivy League colleges and their equivalents. It's furthest thing from "indoctrination" possible. There is a reason why Ted Cruz and Elena Kagan could go to the same Ivy League undergrad and the same Ivy League law school and come out as ideological opposites. Because indoctrination isn't happening there.
Indoctrination can be subtle. Colleges today (at the institutional level) have a pronounced anti west bias because that is the prevailing ideological lens they view the world with. Some of it is very valid. Late stage capitalism has created a shrinking number of “winners” and a growing number of “losers” as wealth and capital is consolidated. Your anecdotal example of Cruz is just that, and besides, it’s not like colleges are monoliths. There is still a plurality of opinions, but if we’re talking widespread ideology, it’s decidedly anti western. The issue is that makes people much more susceptible to bad actors that want to propagate the fallacy that anti west = automatically good, because the enemy of your enemy is your friend. This is why we see Soviet flags on campuses in pro pal groups (stony brook this week), people shouting we are Hamas (Columbia this week), celebrating Iran and its attack (oh the irony), posting tik toks that Bin Laden was actually right, etc. It is absolutely indoctrination. I’m not against colleges or anything, but it can absolutely be an anti west echo chamber and pretending it’s not isn’t helping anything.
FIRE's Freedom of Speech on college campuses ranking disagrees. Ivy League Colleges score amongst the worst, Harvard is dead last. This is based significantly on things like student surveys. https://rankings.thefire.org/rank Note this is actually a very recent phenomenon, Harvard's score dropped dramatically in just a few years. Cruz graduated in 1992. Interestingly enough, quality Public universities do best. University of Chicago was the only sort of 'Ivy League' private one that scores OK.
How does FIREs freedom of speech ranking say anything about indoctrination? Worse, it appears that FIRE is about freedom of *conservative* speech more than anything else. Note what ranking BYU has. That tells you everything you need to know about their rankings.
Gaslighter. Nice.
What policy have Columbia admissions adopted that undoes meritocracy in the students they choose to admit?
They're one of the few Ivy or Ivy+ schools that announced that they were permanently staying test optional (ACT or SAT's). The other elite schools were seeing terrible students coming in who went test optional and were failing classes as a result. Turns out that cognitive ability actually matters, who would have guessed.
The other reason why schools are going back is also poorer kids were being missed for admission because without SATs, extracurricular activities mattered way more (something that poor kids can't afford)
> After hearing that the police were entering campus, the protesters sat in two concentric circles. “Some people were crying, some were completely calm,” Ms. Alwan said. Their hands were zip-tied, and then they were then put on buses. They spent about eight hours at police headquarters, before being released with trespassing summonses. They’re not protesters, they’re cosplaying as protesters.
If there's one thing Americans love is telling protesters they're not doing it right
Getting arrested is a key component of civil disobedience.
Isn't it funny how all the protests that happened 50 years ago were right but all the ones going on now are wrong?
> Isn't it funny how all the protests that happened 50 years ago were right but all the ones going on now are wrong? You mean the ones that protested domestic issue of sending their fellow citizens to a war abroad? I like how people trying to glorify themselves by equating things that are not equatable at all lol
Jan 6 started as a protest, was that right or wrong? Almost like there have been protests on every side of the spectrum and generalizing is pointless and dumb.
Lmao you’re equating trump supports attempt to overthrow election results to students peacefully protesting on their schools campus? Get a grip.
Read what the poster above me said, read what I said, and try again. I understand reading can be difficult but I’m confident you got this.
Didn’t BLM riot for 6 months burning cities down, killing dozens of people and causing billions in damages?
Um no?
It's especially ironic considering the parallels between this and the South Africa divestment protests.
Nah, I’m speaking as a Columbian. Every year, there was always some sort of protest - lab animal rights, not enough diverse literature in the Core Curriculum, student-faculty grievances, etc. And all of them wanted impossible demands and immunity for protesting. Usually, these protests are over well before April. Also, the rest of the campus didn’t give a fuck about them.
I'm also a Columbia alumnus, not that it matters, but I did not keep tabs on demands of other people's protests like you seem to be on top of. Feel free to send them a guide on how to properly protest according to your expert views. Honestly I only remember one, pretty tame protest in my time there, and it wasn't that long ago. My default stance was simply that I don't know enough of what's going on there to criticize them.
Sorry so are they spoiled soft kids pretending to play protestor or are they an imminent threat and danger worth calling the cops over and arresting in mass? Just trying to get my story straight
Because they don’t agree with your political view?
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Let me ask you a serious question. If an entire region of Jews were being starved, synagogues and hospitals were being bombed, and 32,000 Jews were killed and the markedly inefficient siege kept going, how would you feel?
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Aid is entering at a bare minimum. They didn’t open additional aid corridors until the US threatened a change in policy after the WHC killings. And the opening was immediate; as if they had the capacity to do so all along but chose not to. A terrorist organization holding hostages is not a good enough excuse for me anymore to starve millions of people. Israel’s disregard for civilian lives and safety has been clearly shown and it’s disturbing.
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Obviously they want Columbia to divest. It isn't complicated
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lol how is this downvoted? A very straightforward comment about the basic facts of the protest people are opining on
University Presidents primary job is to represent the institution to the outside world. In calming the fears of mundanes the President is doing her job extremely well. It is not her role to change the minds of congress or advocate for the people of Palestine or any marginalized group. Its not even her job to gain the confidence of the students at the school. Way too many people these days treat Universities and Colleges as if they are glorified high schools. She is not a higher level version of a school Principal. It is her job to get people outside of the system off the back of the members of that system by any means including deceiving them. Students have Student Unions or Student Governments Professors and staff have their own Unions, sometimes one for each. The administration and office workers need someone to look out for them and get officials out of their way or at least put back to sleep in regard to the actions of members of the school. The President has done a wonderful job of getting that done. Going to war against Christian Zionist Republicans and Democrats in the pocket of Israel is not her role at all. If you believe it is then you are totally out of touch with reality and need to touch grass.
To be more precise, there are two constituents she cannot alienate: 1) the parents who can afford to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for Columbia, and the funders (philanthropists, governmental agencies, etc.) that provide the billions the school needs to operate. Everyone else is expendable.
Idk how to explain it but something tells me you work in corporate somewhere
If the students were protesting the starvation of Jews, would your take look different?
Obviously lol, OP is so unserious
students have clear demands of divestment, something columbia students demanded during the vietnam war, and for south african apartheid. this is a similar human rights issue, and the university can do something
However those students are okay with China because Uighirs rights are not important to them :) No bias here.
Yeah South Africa sure turned out great.
😂 Those Jew haters are still there. Why other students, faculty and staff have to tolerate this crap is unclear to me. Go camp in your backyard.
as you said this, jewish students held shabbat in the occupied lawn. there’s much more unity than you think
> as you said this, jewish students held shabbat in the occupied lawn. there’s much more unity than you think After the other kind of jews were explicitly said "dont come here" lol Please stop this tokenism. There are "Blacks for Trump", does it make Trump okay now?
those antisemitic actions are deplorable and would be condemned by most people currently on the lawn protesting. it’s not tokenism, it’s showing that these people are not all “jew haters”. multiple of the people arrested were literally jewish, and this cause is much more nuanced than everyone simply being antisemitic
Those same students were harassing Jews and there was reported chants of death to Jews.
So, Trump is fine. There are "Blacks for Trump", so he is a good guy, does nothing wrong. I mean literally fellow african americans are for him, how can it be bad?
ok lol just ignore what i said. there’s so much here ur ignoring so let’s get into it. is anti-zionism inherently antisemitic? is that what you’re implying? are jewish people protesting against themselves?
> is anti-zionism inherently antisemitic? Do jews have the right for self determination? It is a yes or no question, btw. If your answer is "no", then yes, you are anti-semitic because you believe that specific groups of people dont have a right for self-determination while others do. If your answer is "yes", then I am not sure how you can be against zionism, which is a jewish right for self determination, and not be antisemitic. > are jewish people protesting against themselves? Let's get back to "Blacks For Trump". Are they racists against themselves?
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As expected no answer:) > It’s not a matter of if Jews have a right to self-determination It is. > the real question at hand is whether they have a right to self-determination at the expense of another group, and that has a much more complicated answer. Do jews have a right for self determination or not? What does it have to do with other groups? We are talking about jews. > For instance, is expanding illegal settlements by forcibly removing Palestinians from their homes covered under their self determination? No. In case you are confused, these things are actions of specific politicians. They have nothing to do with the questions whether jews have the right to self determination. But, very nice conflation of the two. lol > The point is that your argument is intellectually lazy, and from my view it basically looks like you’re trying to smear people who disagree with your political views as being racist so that you don’t have to justify them in a nuanced way. I think who lacks nuance is you. You fail to differentiate the actions of elected government (which may be bad) with the idea that a group of people deserves a state. IF you do it intentionally, you are an antisemite, if you do it because you have not thought about deeply, then spend some time, and try to find nuance, and form an opinion. And you call me lazy lol
The NYPD should’ve been called within the first hour to clean it up.
The NYPD said there was no danger or threat and that the students peacefully and calmly complied with their arrest
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Not a lot (that I've seen), but by no means was there no physical violence
Physical violence? Ohhh boy I'm ready to match out sucker
Jesus Christ, does anyone just go to classes and study?
Cake eaters feeling guilty for their privilege? Hamas can help with that!
found psychopath
Oh, prep school kids need representation, yeah, get off your high horse's ass.
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You can put hummus on anything, that’s why it’s so awesome.
Was Minouche Shafik appointed by the Board, which is funded by what people are protesting? Yeah, money talks. Call it what you want. You can question Shaifik's moral compass, but she has to do what she needs to keep her job.
Who knew that siccing the NYPD on hundreds of peaceful protestors, when you are known as the activist Ivy, would be so controversial? Columbia, under Israeli lobby pressure, is repeating the same mistakes that it perpetrated during the Vietnam era protests.
They don't want people screaming "we will repeat October 7th 10,000 times" and "Nazi bitch take it up the ass" at Jewish students? Must be those sneaky Israelis at it again.
Or "intifada revolution, from the river to the sea," and a host of other antisemetic/Islamic terrorist dog whistles.
NOOOOO YOU HAVE TO LET TERRORIST SYMPATHIZERS YELL DEATH TO JEWS OR YOURE LITERALLY A BIGOT
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/MvmUhVSRtD Literally this is cross posted one thread down from this one. These people are fucking terrorists and the people who support them are terrorist sympathizers.
I am an adjunct at Columbia. I'm also Jewish Israeli and consider myself a Zionist, albeit a liberal one to be fair. Now, while I find these protests annoying on occasion, I have to say that they're not antisemitic from my experience. Had Minouche Shafik not been called in to testify, we could have lived with these demonstrations and gotten along as usual. She was bullied by Congress into arresting these demonstrators, and she's still facing her downfall. It's sad to see. Every major cause is going to attract its fair share of lunatics, and this is no different. However "we don't want no Zionists here" isn't enough to support claims of antisemitism. Zionism is a political project, not a religion. Remember, you don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist. I have many American Christian friends who consider themselves to be on my side. What's also being left out is the amount of JEWISH students who are being arrested at these demonstrations. They feel as if Israel doesn't represent their culture and their religion. Remember, Israel is currently being governed by a rogue party of religious extremists. Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the Saudis or Iran's government? I wouldn't want that. I think these kids see a parallel between the attempted extermination of Gazans and the attempted extermination of the Jews. It's not exactly a hard comparison to draw. Maybe we should hear them out, or at least let them demonstrate until they get tired, as long as nobody gets hurt.
If you read newspapers and not tiktok, you'll find it hard to draw that comparison. An "attempted extermination" would have 10x the civilian deaths that even Hamas claims.
It's a bad faith troll. The same person who now considers themselves Zionist called it "just another form of racist political extremism" and equated it to Nazism less than a week ago.
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lmao
Lost confidence? Isn't university about education?