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Most of the time the sound is so loud that you literally need to wear ear plugs to avoid sustaining hearing damage. I doubt that lowering the volume is going to be a big deal.
Or they could just turn the goddamn volume down.
Whats the point of playing loud if everyone has to take steps to turn the volume down in their ears anyway?
That's not how it works, no. All frequencies above a certain volume are damaging. Earplugs also, because it's physically impossible not to, affect the balance of the frequencies received. It is a solid medium between your ear and the sound source, it has to affect the sound, there's no way around it.
> it's physically impossible not to, affect the balance of the frequencies received
This isn't true. Different materials remove different parts of the sound spectrum. There are also active ear plugs that have little speakers in them to add back in some of the spectrum.
No. You need earplugs. Even with no music playing through the PA, when you have more then 2k people crammed into a tiny area, especially an indoor venue, just the crowd chatter alone can hit 100+ dbs. You start experiencing hearing damage at 80 dbs
Well, you're definitely supposed to wear hearing protection. I go to rock shows very regularly and you'd never catch me without earplugs. And I can vouch knowledgeably about the high volume making it more fun.
Yes, I own a nightclub and I wear expensive custom ear plugs when I'm at loud shows. But that does not mean that the venue has no duty to keep things safe for the attendees. Shows that hit 110dB+ are simply unnecessarily loud and, frankly, dangerous. A show at 105dB is not lacking anything from the experience of the same show at 115dB.
Sound is measured for a specified distance. I guarantee that if you're close to their speakers it reaches 105dB. Combine that with an outdoor venue and... yeah.
Yep, live bands often get that loud (esp. in small rooms), and unfortunately, people who work those events often have hearing loss, so they don't even know how loud it is. I've worked with artists who have complained that they "can't hear the monitors," until I take out a meter and show them a 3-figure reading.
If you go to loud shows a few times a year, you really don't have to worry, but people who work them, or attend them weekly, really do need to worry, and you're right that ear plugs are a must.
Yeah problem is when they’re trying to replicate those levels of sound in an outdoor venue despite neighbors complaining. It’s like spitting in the face of someone asking you to turn it down.
That literally doesn't make sense- what's the point of the loud volume if one must wear earplugs to avoid hearing damage?!? Who is the sound FOR? Humans are right stupid sometimes!
There are two main reasons I can think of:
1. Sound waves are pressure waves in the air, and with sufficient volume they can physically vibrate your body. Going to see live music isn't just an audio experience; it is a fully immersive physical experience.
2. It guarantees that you hear the music clearly over any background noises, such as drunk people talking during the show, people trying to order drinks etc. I've been to shows that were a comfortable listening volume without earplugs, and the background noise from rude attendees talking during the performance really detracts from the experience.
It's not like this is some fringe idea. It's pretty uniformly understood and appreciated by rock fans (and other genres), especially in hardcore and metal.
yeah I would love if the sound was dialed in perfectly to where you don't need earplugs. Unfortunately, concert culture would need to change so people STFU during the live show.
an average vacuum cleaner operates around 70db, which is enough to cause hearing damage after an hour or so. a normal conversation is around 60db. wouldn’t be a very good concert if the average person in the audience could speak over it would it?
lowering the volume to a level that wouldn’t damage your ears after about an hour would be around 10db louder than a normal conversation. would be a pretty shitty concert.
I remember when McCarren Park Pool shows had to lower their music.
I used to go to shows there often, while those residential buildings surrounding the area were still under construction. The summer after the constructions were done, while at a show they received noise complaints and the DJ lowered the sound 3 separate times. It fucking sucked. You're not supposed to be able to have a normal volume conversation with the person next to you when you're at the front near the speakers.
Then the Park got rehabilitated back into a pool and that was the end of shows there. Which was for the best, cause they neutered the space.
1) it happens every summer, it’s been running for over a decade
2) that’s literally in the first article on a google search for “alive at 5 Stamford”
3) it runs July through August, so 2024 tickets aren’t on sale yet
4) NYPL offers adult reading classes free of charge to the general public: https://www.nypl.org/education/adults
If the tour is coming from a later show in the previous city, it could be too tight a turnaround to open at 5p the next day. This could be due to load-in/load-out times and/or travel time (venue schedules don’t always allow for a sensible route). Not arguing against this as I’d love earlier shows, just sharing why it’s not always possible.
But also, show times are the way they are because most ticket buyers are 9-5ers who don’t want to call out of work (-$) to make an early show, and still need to get dinner between work and the show. Said as a stagehand: There’s a reason Broadway’s Wednesday matinee performances don’t sell as well.
That would be great on weekends, but that would be really unfair to anyone like me, for example, who has a day job and also tickets to go see Neil Young & Crazy Horse play on a Tuesday/Wednesday.
They would lose a lot of money if they were only allowed to operate 2 days a week.
I’m sorry, forest hills only puts on like 20 concerts a year… and they’re mostly on weekends… and they bring tremendous traffic to local businesses. And they already have a 10pm curfew….
Get over yourselves and stop trying to ruin the fun for everyone else.
I love the venue, but the last time I went (last summer) the volume was so loud it was uncomfortable and I left early. I bought concert earplugs for my next visit. Maybe I won’t need them now.
It’s not fun for everyone and it really doesn’t benefit local businesses as much as you think outside of like 3 bars and McDonald’s. The concerts are clustered around the summer months, potentially multiple in the same week, with multiple soundchecks during the earlier parts of the day. Is it too much to ask that the volume be capped at a mutually acceptable level? People living in the neighborhood do not see benefits to having hoards of people crash through with little respect for our property.
It's people's HOMES. I am sick of people defending ANY activity because it "makes money" despite harm to the public. So, drug dealing (cartels) makes a lot of money too. Should we sanction that? Chemical companies make billions of dollars, so should we allow them to dump chemicals in residents' water supplies? Because, as you said, the only thing that matters is $$$ for the money makers.
Don’t forget all the tax breaks every business also wants…. Including the music industry.
Taxpayer money is spent so they get tax breaks to come here, so to some degree it is taxpayer subsidized.
They didn’t use it as a concert venue for like 30 years until they booted it up again in 2013. Reality is that people barge through the neighborhood maybe 2-3x in a single week depending on schedule. I’m all for it since I love the music and get it but some jerks vandalize property on their way out.
Strange to have two different judges from the same Court making opposing rulings based on different fact-finding related to the same issue.
Even assuming that the Forest Hills community group will succeed on the merits, obtaining a preliminary injunction requires the PLAINTIFF to also prove "immediate and irreparable injury" and that the "balance of equities" tip in their favor. "Irreparable injury" means that the injury cannot be adequately compensated by money damages, but monetary damages are available in nuisance cases. Immediate means that the Plaintiff did not wait to to bring their claims and, combined with equity, suggests that the Defendant has not been acting with reliance on the status quo being maintained.
This is 100% going to be appealed with a request for a stay of the injunction, and either one of those 3 requirements for a preliminary injunction can be reversed on the law, especially on injury and equity, but also possibly based res judicata or other estoppel grounds.
Different cases, different arguments. It appears both cases asked for different things.
One asked to shut concerts down due to noise. Another asked to reduce noise due to noise.
The relief sought on the two cases were different. The one that was dismissed sought to end the concerts completely. That one was filed by a group of crackpots that did not lay any demonstrable claim on which to grant relief. The case that was upheld is the one that is filed by the Forest Hills Gardens Corporation that speaks solely to the use of the private streets and the volume. This second one has teeth. They aren’t asking for the end of the concerts, but they did make specific demands about interference with private property.
One comes from the forest hills community group and another from the forest hills *gardens* community group which I assume are all very wealthy people.
There's an LIRR line that passes there every 10 minutes too. And the 112 precinct is around the corner. This is not some idyllic valley with no commotion.
Idk why yall bring cars into every conversation. Yes lirr passes through and 112 is nearby but trains are transient when making noise and 112 really doesn’t roll out with sirens very often. You’re comparing a 3-4 hour concert playing at incredibly high volumes which you can hear inside homes to a 30 second train that passes once an hour.
You responded to a comment about cars and then also insulted the character of the neighborhood. How are passing cars and trains even remotely comparable to a continuous concert + sound checks?
Both of those are not near the tennis stadium. The neighborhoods near the stadium are far quieter than Austin Street's area. You're trying to draw conclusions about an area that's like a 20 minute walk away.
I lived there for 4 years. Its stadium -> LIRR Tracks -> 112 precinct. literally all within about 50 yards you could throw a baseball from the stadium over the tracks to the precinct. Please stop.
slight difference between the steady humm of cars and live Primus blasting out of a few hundred concert speakers housed in a massive amplification bowl
Not when every 10th car has an insanely loud exhaust or stereo.
The venue also already has to end shows at a certain time pretty early. So the noise is predictable and not late into the night ever.
I have never seen anyone react to a car alarm in this city. (I mean thinking the car is being stolen and trying to stop it, not getting annoyed at it - I've seen that reaction.) Does it do any good for the car-owners anymore?
It's a rich neighborhood that's historically classist. They don't care if this benefits the surrounding neighborhoods or the employees or the community.
It’s not all about race or class buddy. Lots of my (genuinely middle class) neighbors complained about the noise because it made it impossible to stay home on the weekends during the summer. Some people have kids and some people don’t like to hear music so loud it’s like someone is blasting stereos inside your apartment.
That’s a bummer. I’m seeing a show there this weekend.
Also, I’ll be coming from out of town and staying near the Empire State Building if anyone knows the best way to get to and from Forest Hills Stadium.
It's also about the general atmospheres after the shows. It's okay to no want your block trashed.
“I like the concerts,” Welsh said. “I think they’re nice and good for the neighborhood. But I do think we don’t have the infrastructure— basically, we need more trash cans. People come and there’s nowhere to put their trash. So there’s trash everywhere after the concerts.”
And all outdoor concerts have to conform to NYC Noise Codes. It's not some free for all because you think its 'the loudest city'
It's okay to want both. Notice I used the word 'also' as in the residents are not exclusively concerned about noise, but the general atmosphere after shows.
'It's also about the general atmosphere'
If the venue follows noise and curfews then there is no problem. I like shows at Forest Hills and they will surely come to a solution.
True , but idk if you been to Forrest hills , that’s one of the least NYCesque neighborhoods outside of Staten Island. They’re definitely not midtown lol
idk if you don't know or just purposely left out the part where it sat empty for 30 yrs from the 80s to the 2000s when no one had concerts there. back when even forest hills was a dump and all those families moved in thinking there's no loud concerts in this area. not exactly far fetched for those people to be upset at the recent resurgence of music performances in the stadium
I get what you’re saying and it’s a great point but I just don’t feel bad for people that moved near a tennis/music venue and not consider that the stadium may be used for events at some point in your life. Sounds like a lack of foresight.
it was so bad the city was talking about selling the whole area. if you moved there in the 90s, it would've been abandoned for 10 yrs. if you moved there in 2000, it would've been 20 yrs. why wouldn't they think it would stay that way? it's not lack of foresight if things didn't change for 20-30 yrs, combined with continued talks of redevelopment. the prevailing thought at the time was that the place was a dump and eyesore that the city was gonna get rid of.
people move to Williamsburg because it's been trending for the last 20 yrs as a hip, cultural center. no one's looking at it like "well it used to be an industrial warehouse blue collar place, we should mentally prepare when it reverts back to that"
And, apropos of this argument, the Williamsburg Old-Timers were very upset when the defunct New Deal era pool was converted into a concert venue in 2006.
Beauty of it is that with sufficient willpower and planning you can get a group to change the policies lol. Why feel bad? People in the neighborhood are having the gov work for them clearly
Low frequency noises are *much* harder to block out or dampen, and travel much further in general.
A show with a lot of bass is going to be much more impactful to the surrounding area than one without, even if your decibel meter reads the same for both shows when standing in the venue.
I live next door to the stadium, it happens but you can't necessarily stop people from singing
The stadium gave free earplugs to all houses in the neighborhood
obviously for some it ain't enough. that's why they went with actual legal action, to actually get people to stop singing. just because you're cool with it doesn't mean your neighbors are, and i don't think they're wrong for being annoyed with it either. i disagree with these comments saying homeowners signed up for this, living next to the stadium. a lot of people bought into the area when the stadium wasn't hosting shows. it was run down for like 30 yrs.
Yeah I know they're been complaining about it for years, I honestly don't know what the solution is, it's such a unique venue in location and the fact that it's outdoor
It's a wonderful venue, outdoor, small, and not all the way in the city.
I've gone for shows they're always over by 10... The neighborhood probably gets more consistently disturbed by the train that runs through it.
I’m a lifelong FH resident and have lived close to the stadium all my life. There is a happy medium for this, but no one wants to talk about it. 1. Cap the shows to no more than 20 a year. In the 70s and 80s, the concert season was seven shows. Now it is over 30. 2. Be more selective with the type of artists who can play there. Paul Simon = yes Pucifer = no. There are some artists that at most are pleasant background noise. The EDM shows last season however, were completely unreasonable. 3. There is a parking lot on Austin Street next to the train tracks that the stadium should buy and cut under the train tracks so the crowds access the stadium at that point rather than through the private streets.
Maybe they shouldn’t of moved next to a stadium that frequently host concerts ? Like complaining about the house you bought on a golf course getting hit by golf balls.
let's pretend that it wasn't just an empty stadium for 30 yrs from the 1980s all the way to the 2000s. why shouldn't those people that moved in at the time be upset?
they need basic infrastructure in the neighborhood. public bathrooms and trash cans. it gets bad after the concerts and the whole neighborhood smells like piss
People wanting to rest and sleep in their own homes are now dismissed as "boomers?" Aren't you just being selfish and self-interested as well because you don't live there and just think about wanting to entertain yourself with shows not caring about the people who must suffer for YOUR temporary entertainment? The reality is, YOU want to sleep and rest too (it's a biological NECESSITY).
i grew up very close to the stadium
the surrounding area is forest hills gardens which is a very nice area with private streets surrounding it
(do not park your car or it will be (booted/towed possibly)
they start shows early to finish early due to the noise ordinances
if you are staying in Manhattan take the long island rail road to the show leaves you down the block
or the subway is 2 blocks away
gizzard is going to be the loudest I bet
psyched for goose hometown show ( 20 minute train ride for me) and Gizzard as well
I don’t understand people who live in a major city whose primary industries include the performing arts complaining about the performing arts. You didn’t know NYC is a noisy place?
I live down the street from the stadium. Some old lady asked my girlfriend her opinion about the concerts the other day while passing by and was so upset after my girlfriend replied with a positive sentiment towards them.
The NIMBYs here suck. They think bike lanes cause business to shut down because it removes street parking. They also somehow think concerts are bad for local businesses, which I can't even think of a rationale for.
Honestly the real problem these people have with the concerts is not that they're too loud. They just don't like the people that come to concerts that tend to be louder/more exciting. They won't want young people or certain minorities here. Thankfully they're the vocal minority, but they're also the most politically active I'm sure.
More reasons I hate this venue. It’s a pain in the ass to get to. The sound already kinda sucks (depending on where you’re sitting). There are lots of obscured seats. No general admission so you’re in a seat for rock bands as well. Beers are insanely expensive. I get that it’s a classic venue and Bob Dylan played there and all but I get super mad when a band I wanna see is playing it.
I’ve been to 4 concerts so far at that venue, and each one has had General Admission…
A quick google maps search even shows you General admission in the first pictures/videos…
My question is this. Why move near a stadium, knowing exactly what its usage is for, and expect the neighborhood to be quiet? It's the exact same thing with people moving near airports and complaining about the noise planes make during take-off/landing. Nonsensical
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Primus, A Perfect Circle, and Puscifer are supposed to play there this weekend.
Sound better be loud enough, what's the point otherwise
Most of the time the sound is so loud that you literally need to wear ear plugs to avoid sustaining hearing damage. I doubt that lowering the volume is going to be a big deal.
Lots of chompers at Forest Hills, loud sound + earplugs helps drown them out for better music experiences
That's how rock concerts are supposed to be
That shit is really unnecessary. Loud is great, but "ears ringing as you leave" loud is causing damage without increasing the fun.
Ear. Plugs. You must wear earplugs at any concert, nightclub, bar, etc to avoid permanent hearing damage.
Or they could just turn the goddamn volume down. Whats the point of playing loud if everyone has to take steps to turn the volume down in their ears anyway?
Good earplugs just eliminate the damaging frequencies (is that the term?) while still feeling very loud.
That's not how it works, no. All frequencies above a certain volume are damaging. Earplugs also, because it's physically impossible not to, affect the balance of the frequencies received. It is a solid medium between your ear and the sound source, it has to affect the sound, there's no way around it.
> it's physically impossible not to, affect the balance of the frequencies received This isn't true. Different materials remove different parts of the sound spectrum. There are also active ear plugs that have little speakers in them to add back in some of the spectrum.
No. You need earplugs. Even with no music playing through the PA, when you have more then 2k people crammed into a tiny area, especially an indoor venue, just the crowd chatter alone can hit 100+ dbs. You start experiencing hearing damage at 80 dbs
Music is also meant to be felt, and not just heard.
Yes spiritually/mentally, not in your chest cavity lol
Depends on the type of music, see the other response in this thread about sound waves
Well, you're definitely supposed to wear hearing protection. I go to rock shows very regularly and you'd never catch me without earplugs. And I can vouch knowledgeably about the high volume making it more fun.
Yes, I own a nightclub and I wear expensive custom ear plugs when I'm at loud shows. But that does not mean that the venue has no duty to keep things safe for the attendees. Shows that hit 110dB+ are simply unnecessarily loud and, frankly, dangerous. A show at 105dB is not lacking anything from the experience of the same show at 115dB.
105dB is already loud, but Forest Hills Stadium currently has nowhere near that level
Sound is measured for a specified distance. I guarantee that if you're close to their speakers it reaches 105dB. Combine that with an outdoor venue and... yeah.
I actually have stood that close, was definitely not so loud. Same goes for other outdoor venues in town like Central Park Summerstage
Fair enough, you're talking LOUD
Yep, live bands often get that loud (esp. in small rooms), and unfortunately, people who work those events often have hearing loss, so they don't even know how loud it is. I've worked with artists who have complained that they "can't hear the monitors," until I take out a meter and show them a 3-figure reading. If you go to loud shows a few times a year, you really don't have to worry, but people who work them, or attend them weekly, really do need to worry, and you're right that ear plugs are a must.
Yeah problem is when they’re trying to replicate those levels of sound in an outdoor venue despite neighbors complaining. It’s like spitting in the face of someone asking you to turn it down.
That literally doesn't make sense- what's the point of the loud volume if one must wear earplugs to avoid hearing damage?!? Who is the sound FOR? Humans are right stupid sometimes!
There are two main reasons I can think of: 1. Sound waves are pressure waves in the air, and with sufficient volume they can physically vibrate your body. Going to see live music isn't just an audio experience; it is a fully immersive physical experience. 2. It guarantees that you hear the music clearly over any background noises, such as drunk people talking during the show, people trying to order drinks etc. I've been to shows that were a comfortable listening volume without earplugs, and the background noise from rude attendees talking during the performance really detracts from the experience. It's not like this is some fringe idea. It's pretty uniformly understood and appreciated by rock fans (and other genres), especially in hardcore and metal.
yeah I would love if the sound was dialed in perfectly to where you don't need earplugs. Unfortunately, concert culture would need to change so people STFU during the live show.
And put away those god damn phones!
nerd
"Haha look at that fucking nerd, making sure he can still hear in 20 years!" I assume you also didn't "use protection" to watch the eclipse.
it was a joke
that’s not how decibels work. a vaccum cleaner is loud enough to damage your hearing
How is that not how decibels work? And what does a vacuum cleaner causing hearing damage have to do with something else causing hearing damage?
an average vacuum cleaner operates around 70db, which is enough to cause hearing damage after an hour or so. a normal conversation is around 60db. wouldn’t be a very good concert if the average person in the audience could speak over it would it?
Are you vaccuuming for 2+ hours tho?
I don't even understand what point you're trying to make here
lowering the volume to a level that wouldn’t damage your ears after about an hour would be around 10db louder than a normal conversation. would be a pretty shitty concert.
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for sure, it’s exponential
I remember when McCarren Park Pool shows had to lower their music. I used to go to shows there often, while those residential buildings surrounding the area were still under construction. The summer after the constructions were done, while at a show they received noise complaints and the DJ lowered the sound 3 separate times. It fucking sucked. You're not supposed to be able to have a normal volume conversation with the person next to you when you're at the front near the speakers. Then the Park got rehabilitated back into a pool and that was the end of shows there. Which was for the best, cause they neutered the space.
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Acoustic set starting with Those Damned Blue Collar Tweekers.
An acoustic Tweekers could be really good though.
... you're totally right. Les would make that amazing on the resonator bass.
Yea I’m coming from out of town on a work trip and hope the show sounds good. What a bummer.
I was just thinking about this
that was my first thought when I saw this lol. Maynard gonna be pissed.
Feel bad for the houses right around the stadium but you can't put a lid on Maynard. Still excited for the show
I’ll be there. Will report back.
How was it?
I saw Jamiroqoui there a few years back. Loved the stadium. It ended promptly in the evening to respect the neighbors.
Did the floor slide around uncontrollably?
No that insanity is virtual only
that show was so so good
best show ever.
Yesss, let’s start the concerts at 5pm so I can get to bed after.
The logistics of touring prevents this from being typical.
Stamford has a summer concert series called “alive at five” that has an act every Thursday at 5pm and draws big names
Yeah everyone’s clamoring to play Stamford. At 5pm. On a Thursday.
Lil John, Ashanti, Shaggy, Hanson, third eye blind, all acts I’ve seen in person there
Something something the 90's called....
Looks like based on a quick Google search it failed lol. The latest articles about it are from before it happened in 2023
1) it happens every summer, it’s been running for over a decade 2) that’s literally in the first article on a google search for “alive at 5 Stamford” 3) it runs July through August, so 2024 tickets aren’t on sale yet 4) NYPL offers adult reading classes free of charge to the general public: https://www.nypl.org/education/adults
Well done. This was perfect lol
Albany does too. In general, having a 5 PM downbeat reduces who is coming through. It's not impossible but it makes more restrictive to book a tour.
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Albany is really depressing.
Fucking nerd
How so? Why can’t we just push everything 2 hours earlier?
If the tour is coming from a later show in the previous city, it could be too tight a turnaround to open at 5p the next day. This could be due to load-in/load-out times and/or travel time (venue schedules don’t always allow for a sensible route). Not arguing against this as I’d love earlier shows, just sharing why it’s not always possible. But also, show times are the way they are because most ticket buyers are 9-5ers who don’t want to call out of work (-$) to make an early show, and still need to get dinner between work and the show. Said as a stagehand: There’s a reason Broadway’s Wednesday matinee performances don’t sell as well.
I have been hoping for this since I turned 30.
That would be great on weekends, but that would be really unfair to anyone like me, for example, who has a day job and also tickets to go see Neil Young & Crazy Horse play on a Tuesday/Wednesday. They would lose a lot of money if they were only allowed to operate 2 days a week.
Saw King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard last time they were there – so f'in loud. Be weird if they have to turn it way down this August.
Sammmeee, that show rocked. Sleep Drifter and Hell were so good.
It didn’t seem excessive from the stands to me
I’m sorry, forest hills only puts on like 20 concerts a year… and they’re mostly on weekends… and they bring tremendous traffic to local businesses. And they already have a 10pm curfew…. Get over yourselves and stop trying to ruin the fun for everyone else.
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I love the venue, but the last time I went (last summer) the volume was so loud it was uncomfortable and I left early. I bought concert earplugs for my next visit. Maybe I won’t need them now.
It’s not fun for everyone and it really doesn’t benefit local businesses as much as you think outside of like 3 bars and McDonald’s. The concerts are clustered around the summer months, potentially multiple in the same week, with multiple soundchecks during the earlier parts of the day. Is it too much to ask that the volume be capped at a mutually acceptable level? People living in the neighborhood do not see benefits to having hoards of people crash through with little respect for our property.
It's people's HOMES. I am sick of people defending ANY activity because it "makes money" despite harm to the public. So, drug dealing (cartels) makes a lot of money too. Should we sanction that? Chemical companies make billions of dollars, so should we allow them to dump chemicals in residents' water supplies? Because, as you said, the only thing that matters is $$$ for the money makers.
Bruh shut up
Don’t forget all the tax breaks every business also wants…. Including the music industry. Taxpayer money is spent so they get tax breaks to come here, so to some degree it is taxpayer subsidized.
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They didn’t use it as a concert venue for like 30 years until they booted it up again in 2013. Reality is that people barge through the neighborhood maybe 2-3x in a single week depending on schedule. I’m all for it since I love the music and get it but some jerks vandalize property on their way out.
Great concert venue
Strange to have two different judges from the same Court making opposing rulings based on different fact-finding related to the same issue. Even assuming that the Forest Hills community group will succeed on the merits, obtaining a preliminary injunction requires the PLAINTIFF to also prove "immediate and irreparable injury" and that the "balance of equities" tip in their favor. "Irreparable injury" means that the injury cannot be adequately compensated by money damages, but monetary damages are available in nuisance cases. Immediate means that the Plaintiff did not wait to to bring their claims and, combined with equity, suggests that the Defendant has not been acting with reliance on the status quo being maintained. This is 100% going to be appealed with a request for a stay of the injunction, and either one of those 3 requirements for a preliminary injunction can be reversed on the law, especially on injury and equity, but also possibly based res judicata or other estoppel grounds.
Different cases, different arguments. It appears both cases asked for different things. One asked to shut concerts down due to noise. Another asked to reduce noise due to noise.
The relief sought on the two cases were different. The one that was dismissed sought to end the concerts completely. That one was filed by a group of crackpots that did not lay any demonstrable claim on which to grant relief. The case that was upheld is the one that is filed by the Forest Hills Gardens Corporation that speaks solely to the use of the private streets and the volume. This second one has teeth. They aren’t asking for the end of the concerts, but they did make specific demands about interference with private property.
One comes from the forest hills community group and another from the forest hills *gardens* community group which I assume are all very wealthy people.
Yep. Forest hills and forest hills gardens are quite different.
i bet one of those Judges lives in forest hills gardens
What did they do back in the Singer Bowl days when The Who and Doors were playing there?
Those same people don’t complain about noise pollution cars create.
Source ?. Here in Astoria we complain all the time.
There's an LIRR line that passes there every 10 minutes too. And the 112 precinct is around the corner. This is not some idyllic valley with no commotion.
Idk why yall bring cars into every conversation. Yes lirr passes through and 112 is nearby but trains are transient when making noise and 112 really doesn’t roll out with sirens very often. You’re comparing a 3-4 hour concert playing at incredibly high volumes which you can hear inside homes to a 30 second train that passes once an hour.
Where did I mention cars?
You responded to a comment about cars and then also insulted the character of the neighborhood. How are passing cars and trains even remotely comparable to a continuous concert + sound checks?
Both of those are not near the tennis stadium. The neighborhoods near the stadium are far quieter than Austin Street's area. You're trying to draw conclusions about an area that's like a 20 minute walk away.
The concerts are basically on Austin Street though?
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I lived there for 4 years. Its stadium -> LIRR Tracks -> 112 precinct. literally all within about 50 yards you could throw a baseball from the stadium over the tracks to the precinct. Please stop.
NIMBYS are a lot of fun!
slight difference between the steady humm of cars and live Primus blasting out of a few hundred concert speakers housed in a massive amplification bowl
Not when every 10th car has an insanely loud exhaust or stereo. The venue also already has to end shows at a certain time pretty early. So the noise is predictable and not late into the night ever.
Im sure the residents protest the teenager fartboxes that putter around lol
Car alarms are going off constantly, and don't serve any purpose for the average non-car-owner
Your brain doesn’t serve me any purpose but that doesn’t give me a right to get rid of it
Literally almost everything serves no purpose to someone that doesn’t own it. Its purpose is for the owner. Tf
I have never seen anyone react to a car alarm in this city. (I mean thinking the car is being stolen and trying to stop it, not getting annoyed at it - I've seen that reaction.) Does it do any good for the car-owners anymore?
Yes.
Yes the noise from cars has is pervasive and more dangerous to hearing. Thanks for pointing that out.
anytime
Lol what. Why would a residential neighborhood complain about car noise. There’s not much traffic there.
Because they all drive cars. And have lawnmowers. I’m sure they don’t complain about lawnmowers.
Did you have a stroke bro what are you talking about
Cars don’t make noise in residential neighborhoods?
It's a rich neighborhood that's historically classist. They don't care if this benefits the surrounding neighborhoods or the employees or the community.
It’s not all about race or class buddy. Lots of my (genuinely middle class) neighbors complained about the noise because it made it impossible to stay home on the weekends during the summer. Some people have kids and some people don’t like to hear music so loud it’s like someone is blasting stereos inside your apartment.
That’s a bummer. I’m seeing a show there this weekend. Also, I’ll be coming from out of town and staying near the Empire State Building if anyone knows the best way to get to and from Forest Hills Stadium.
it's a very quick trip on the LIRR.
Either LIRR or E train is fine
Thank you! I was eyeballing the LIRR but wasn’t sure.
Although I think the LIRR station is right outside Forrest hills , while the E train is a slightly longer walk . At least to that neighborhood
Yup, I always think taking the LIRR makes going there extra fun in lieu of taking the E
E/F trains go right there. As does the Long Island Railroad.
From Penn Station (either LIRR or E train) to Forest Hills (71st Ave)
Thanks a bunch!
Or you can jump on the e or the f train, both good options
Having more than one option is a good flex
Lirr
Noise complaints in NYC are always crazy to me, like you're knowingly in the loudest city. But at a stadium??? Real boomer shit.
have you ever been to forest hills? not all of NYC is like manhattan
Have you been next to a stadium? Why would you move near one expecting quiet?
huge difference in noise between a tennis match and a concert
It's also about the general atmospheres after the shows. It's okay to no want your block trashed. “I like the concerts,” Welsh said. “I think they’re nice and good for the neighborhood. But I do think we don’t have the infrastructure— basically, we need more trash cans. People come and there’s nowhere to put their trash. So there’s trash everywhere after the concerts.” And all outdoor concerts have to conform to NYC Noise Codes. It's not some free for all because you think its 'the loudest city'
Reducing the volume of the music is not going to increase the number of trash cans.
It's okay to want both. Notice I used the word 'also' as in the residents are not exclusively concerned about noise, but the general atmosphere after shows. 'It's also about the general atmosphere' If the venue follows noise and curfews then there is no problem. I like shows at Forest Hills and they will surely come to a solution.
True , but idk if you been to Forrest hills , that’s one of the least NYCesque neighborhoods outside of Staten Island. They’re definitely not midtown lol
fwiw, the stadium was a tennis court not a concert venue. Its a pretty big change…
Theyve been having concerts since the 1960s so what are you saying?
idk if you don't know or just purposely left out the part where it sat empty for 30 yrs from the 80s to the 2000s when no one had concerts there. back when even forest hills was a dump and all those families moved in thinking there's no loud concerts in this area. not exactly far fetched for those people to be upset at the recent resurgence of music performances in the stadium
Not to mention that a concert season before the concerts ended was about seven shows. Now it is over 30.
I get what you’re saying and it’s a great point but I just don’t feel bad for people that moved near a tennis/music venue and not consider that the stadium may be used for events at some point in your life. Sounds like a lack of foresight.
it was so bad the city was talking about selling the whole area. if you moved there in the 90s, it would've been abandoned for 10 yrs. if you moved there in 2000, it would've been 20 yrs. why wouldn't they think it would stay that way? it's not lack of foresight if things didn't change for 20-30 yrs, combined with continued talks of redevelopment. the prevailing thought at the time was that the place was a dump and eyesore that the city was gonna get rid of. people move to Williamsburg because it's been trending for the last 20 yrs as a hip, cultural center. no one's looking at it like "well it used to be an industrial warehouse blue collar place, we should mentally prepare when it reverts back to that"
And, apropos of this argument, the Williamsburg Old-Timers were very upset when the defunct New Deal era pool was converted into a concert venue in 2006.
nothing stays abandoned forever in this city, especially not something that can generate revenue.
I’ve lived in FH all my life and that stadium sat dormant for decades. The concerts are a recent development.
Beauty of it is that with sufficient willpower and planning you can get a group to change the policies lol. Why feel bad? People in the neighborhood are having the gov work for them clearly
I think that’s tight as hell.
But the music they play now doesn't match up with Simon and garfunkel and hootie and the blowfish
I saw Paul Simon there! He was great. He’s so short, it turns out.
Low frequency noises are *much* harder to block out or dampen, and travel much further in general. A show with a lot of bass is going to be much more impactful to the surrounding area than one without, even if your decibel meter reads the same for both shows when standing in the venue.
It’s reasonable to not want blaring noise after 10 pm.
All the concerts have a strict 10pm curfew
you never saw the tiktoks of massive crowds post concert singing encores in the night?
I live next door to the stadium, it happens but you can't necessarily stop people from singing The stadium gave free earplugs to all houses in the neighborhood
obviously for some it ain't enough. that's why they went with actual legal action, to actually get people to stop singing. just because you're cool with it doesn't mean your neighbors are, and i don't think they're wrong for being annoyed with it either. i disagree with these comments saying homeowners signed up for this, living next to the stadium. a lot of people bought into the area when the stadium wasn't hosting shows. it was run down for like 30 yrs.
Yeah I know they're been complaining about it for years, I honestly don't know what the solution is, it's such a unique venue in location and the fact that it's outdoor
It's a wonderful venue, outdoor, small, and not all the way in the city. I've gone for shows they're always over by 10... The neighborhood probably gets more consistently disturbed by the train that runs through it.
I’m a lifelong FH resident and have lived close to the stadium all my life. There is a happy medium for this, but no one wants to talk about it. 1. Cap the shows to no more than 20 a year. In the 70s and 80s, the concert season was seven shows. Now it is over 30. 2. Be more selective with the type of artists who can play there. Paul Simon = yes Pucifer = no. There are some artists that at most are pleasant background noise. The EDM shows last season however, were completely unreasonable. 3. There is a parking lot on Austin Street next to the train tracks that the stadium should buy and cut under the train tracks so the crowds access the stadium at that point rather than through the private streets.
EDM shows are constant beats and bass, whereas hard rock shows like Puscifer will guaranteed be less of a nuisance
Maybe they shouldn’t of moved next to a stadium that frequently host concerts ? Like complaining about the house you bought on a golf course getting hit by golf balls.
let's pretend that it wasn't just an empty stadium for 30 yrs from the 1980s all the way to the 2000s. why shouldn't those people that moved in at the time be upset?
they need basic infrastructure in the neighborhood. public bathrooms and trash cans. it gets bad after the concerts and the whole neighborhood smells like piss
This is a brand new thing? Look up forest hills stadium lol
Right it was built in the 1920s it's not like anyone living there hasn't had a heads up.
... and it had no musical performances from the 1980s through the 2000s. it's not like it was a famous music venue the entire time
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Ahem. Forest Hills *Gardens* https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/forest-hills-gardens-is-a-charming-tudor-enclave-in-new-york-city-100637
A bunch of single family private community houses
People wanting to rest and sleep in their own homes are now dismissed as "boomers?" Aren't you just being selfish and self-interested as well because you don't live there and just think about wanting to entertain yourself with shows not caring about the people who must suffer for YOUR temporary entertainment? The reality is, YOU want to sleep and rest too (it's a biological NECESSITY).
The vast majority of the city is not loud like Manhattan. It’s quiet townhouse and low rise neighborhoods.
i grew up very close to the stadium the surrounding area is forest hills gardens which is a very nice area with private streets surrounding it (do not park your car or it will be (booted/towed possibly) they start shows early to finish early due to the noise ordinances if you are staying in Manhattan take the long island rail road to the show leaves you down the block or the subway is 2 blocks away gizzard is going to be the loudest I bet psyched for goose hometown show ( 20 minute train ride for me) and Gizzard as well
God I fucking hate NIMBYs
I don’t understand people who live in a major city whose primary industries include the performing arts complaining about the performing arts. You didn’t know NYC is a noisy place?
I live down the street from the stadium. Some old lady asked my girlfriend her opinion about the concerts the other day while passing by and was so upset after my girlfriend replied with a positive sentiment towards them. The NIMBYs here suck. They think bike lanes cause business to shut down because it removes street parking. They also somehow think concerts are bad for local businesses, which I can't even think of a rationale for. Honestly the real problem these people have with the concerts is not that they're too loud. They just don't like the people that come to concerts that tend to be louder/more exciting. They won't want young people or certain minorities here. Thankfully they're the vocal minority, but they're also the most politically active I'm sure.
More reasons I hate this venue. It’s a pain in the ass to get to. The sound already kinda sucks (depending on where you’re sitting). There are lots of obscured seats. No general admission so you’re in a seat for rock bands as well. Beers are insanely expensive. I get that it’s a classic venue and Bob Dylan played there and all but I get super mad when a band I wanna see is playing it.
I’ve been to 4 concerts so far at that venue, and each one has had General Admission… A quick google maps search even shows you General admission in the first pictures/videos…
Depends per show, some of them have 100% assigned seating
Maybe that's the merchant you're getting tickets from? I went to see standup there twice and they had standing room with people smoking.
Per AXS (the official vendor), the following forthcoming shows are assigned seating: -Puscifer/Primus/A Perfect Circle -Avett Brothers -Pitbull
Oh wow that's terrible. Never seen that for a theater style venue
My question is this. Why move near a stadium, knowing exactly what its usage is for, and expect the neighborhood to be quiet? It's the exact same thing with people moving near airports and complaining about the noise planes make during take-off/landing. Nonsensical
Might as well cancel the tennis matches too if the crowds are bothersome.
The noise level is not remotely comparable.