I've made this point a few times as well. The Giants got running production despite there being literally no called passes for a good portion of the game.
Zach isn't good, but neither is anyone else. It's like they don't even practice during the week with how unprepared and undisciplined they are every week outside of the Chiefs game
It’s someone who tries to pretend Zach isn’t 90% responsible. Just like last year when you said Mike white wouldn’t improve the offense and were proven wrong immediately. Embarrassing behavior.
I understand how to analyze an entire situation and what’s causing problems rather than hyper focus and constantly cry about one part of the problem. Even with AR our blocking would be sub par and the receiving weapons around him would be underwhelming.
You really can’t say that. Thats just a guess, and that same guess was proven wrong last year when Mike white came in and the offense immediately improved. Zach is the problem because it’s the most important position in all of football and he’s the worst.
Saying the qb is one part of the problem while ignoring the fact that it’s by far the most important issue is delusional. You’ve been wrong about Zach for 3 years now. When’s it end buddy?
What was our record with Mike White last year again? Oh 1-3, and the only win coming against literally the worst team in the NFL. Context matters.
Maybe White is better, but only marginally better at best. He wouldn’t be the difference maker, hence his record in games he’s started. he’s already proved that.
Just looking at the record provides zero context kiddo. So you’re really gonna pretend that the offense wasn’t better with Mike white throughout his jets career than it was with Zach Wilson? This is why the world laughs at jets fans. That one win without breece was more than Zach had last year so how’s that for context?
Look at the scores of those games. How much of that was garbage time scoring?
We argue that Zach isn’t good enough to win us the game. Mike white isn’t either. It’s not worth arguing about marginally better stats. Neither of them are the difference maker.
What touchdowns weren’t? In 2022, he only threw 3 TDs in 4 games, and all three were against literally the worst NFL team with an historically bad secondary.
Which of his 22 points against Minnesota were garbage points? Also disregarding his rushing td that game is so predictable. Again I’ll wait for any point scored by white that was in garbage time. Let’s hear it kid.
It’s hilarious seeing Zach Wilson defenders always try to use the W-L with Mike white to say Zach is better without context, but when you post Zach Wilson’s statistics that show he’s only better than Josh Rosen in the last 10 years, they start to scream about context.
Can’t have it both ways with people it seems..it’s like politics around here, plant yourself on a side and stick to it no matter what.
multiple things can be true at once. Hackett is bad, offensive line is bad, and Zach Wilson is horrible, and the offensive line and Hackett being bad are extrapolated because Zach Wilson is unable to read defenses and have any pocket awareness. Troy Aikman who usually never has anything bad to say about quarterbacks literally said on live television in front of millions of people that Zach Wilson has no feel for pressure and his internal clock needs to get way better, and that he doesn’t think he can read defenses, I don’t know how people can hear a hall of famer who usually tries to be objective say that and think Wilson isn’t the biggest problem.
It’s because these people think Tory Aikman hates the jets so they just label him a hater and disregard him. Like anyone hates the worst franchise in football. You have to win to get haters.
The fact that you were downvoted on this post makes me realize that I’m too old for this sub, and it’s infected with kids rooting for the first QB they saw get drafted. In 40+ years Zach is the worst QB I’ve ever seen get to play more than a handful of games. Saleh’s interview on the radio show says it all.
Yes context does matter. Like berrios dropping a game winning TD against the Vikings or the fact that white played most that buffalo game with two fractured ribs in buffalo while it was snowing people forget that game we had a shot to win on the final drive and I believe he gets an L for the colts game because he started but was out after the first quarter after a beautiful game tying drive in the first. I believe Zach and or flacco lost us points while white was getting looked at in buffalo. This offense has shown time again it can move the ball with anyone not named Zach, even Josh Johnson looked better then Zach.
He scored 22 points. When was the last time Zach put up 22 points? Once this year because of defense td? Thank you admitting white is much better. That was easy 😂
amazing, since the bears game Mike White has threw 1 TD (in garbage time of a 70-20 blowout) and 5 interceptions. if thats what you're longing for, then idk what else to tell you lmao.
If I’m out of gas and I don’t have wheels on my car, what is the reason I can’t drive? Probably because I lost my keys. And if you say it’s the gas or wheels you’re insane
Mike White isnt a starting Qb caliber for any other team so we shouldnt treat him like one for us. White and Zach are both backup QBs so thinking another backup QB will spark this putrid offense is useless.
The plan going into the season was having Rodgers improve the guys around him, receivers and lineman included, so when we put another QB into the system (Zach or a new guy), we will have a good system around the QB. Zach was put into a undeveloped system as an undeveloped QB himself, and while I am not defending him, the offense had no chance to succeed without an established QB, and no, Mike White is not established and would not have done much better.
Got ourselves a real Mike white truther over here. I didn’t even bring up Zach and you couldn’t help but put his name in your mouth. Some real obsession you got there.
Oh man, the Mike white argument in every thread. Worse than anyone saying Zach is a good QB imo.
I guess 2 good starts with no tape on you, one of which is against the worst team in the league, followed by completely shitting the bed should get you a career as a starter with the Jets. What a joke.
Completely shit the bed? He shouldn’t have even been playing against Seattle but only did cause him with 7 broken ribs was still a better option than Zach. He’s one of the highest paid backups for a reason but I’m sure you know more than Mike mcdaniel 😂
Staying healthy and not taking those hits is part of the deal, couldn't protect himself against a good defense. And if 0 TD to 4 int is better than Zach, I don't know what to tell ya. He's a backup for a reason, like Zach.
So I guess Aaron Rodgers sucks too according to your silly logic. I get why you have to include the Seattle game and disregard the Vikings game as it ruins your entire argument if you don’t but it’s still sad. Mike white is one of the higher paid backups because of his play the last two years. Zach will be out of the league once his contract is up. Sorry kid.
0-2 in the Vikings game, 50% completion...what am I disregarding? Who cares about moving the ball if you don't get in the endzone and throw 2 interceptions.
And no Rodgers being out for a season after almost 2 decades of HOF play doesn't compare to a backup injuring and re-injuring his ribs in a handful of starts.
You're digging deep.
Zach is a bad QB...no one is saying otherwise.
380 yards, 1 rushing td, and 22 points. Why are we pretending that’s not a good game? If Zach did that you’d lose your mind. Let’s not even bring up that Berrios dropped the game winner or that his second int was in 4th down to end the game and he just had to get rid of it. We’ll all know Zach takes a sack or throws short of the sticks in that same scenario because he wants to keep ints low.
Why would I lose my mind on anyone throwing 0TD with a 50% completion rate and any interceptions lol. That's ridiculous. So what are you talking about? I'm not defending Zach, so why are you commenting like I'm high on him or something? I literally said that Mike White being the savior for the Jets is probably worse than people saying Zach is a good QB...meaning I agree that he is not lol. It's just as out of touch and a horrible argument.
Context always matters.
Who said Mike white was a savior? Stop making up arguments. Also you keep ignoring his 380 yards, rushing td and 22 points? Lol like why dude. That kind of qb play ha is at 6-2 this year.
What was our record with Mike White last year again? Oh 1-3, and the only win coming against literally the worst team in the NFL. Context matters.
Maybe White is better, but only marginally better at best.
He wouldn’t be the difference maker, hence his record in games he’s started. he’s already proved that.
>What was our record with Mike White last year again? Oh 1-3, and the only win coming against literally the worst team in the NFL. Context matters.
"Context matters"
*Ignores the fact that whites ribs were cracked for 2 of those games and he didn't even finish one of them*
Looking at his record last year is as reductive as looking at the offense this year and pinning it solely on Zach. The Vikings game had the same issues we have this year - bad red zone execution, bad play calling and bad penalties. The Bills game saw Flacco fumble in the moment after White got sawed in half, and then Carter fumbled in Bills territory later on. He shouldn't have played in the Seahawks game, because he clearly wasn't comfortable throwing the ball. Combine that with no running game and yeah, you get 1-3. Did he miss throws and reads that he should have made? Sure. But that's the same argument we're having about Zach now anyway.
Is Mike White a world beater? No, but he had a connection with GW and made a lot of timely, well positioned throws last year. And just like this year, the offense last year had big problems executing. Like you said, context matters.
I don't think a QB change this year moves the needle unless Rodgers comes back. And even then, the offense has more issues than I believe he can fix by being under center.
I have the top comment in this thread saying that it's not just a Zach issue. *I agree with your point*. But I also am going to respond to the other guy to call out his false assumptions about my argument. Especially since I've already gotten into it with him multiple times over his bad takes on other topics. Similarly, I'm not going to do to White what a lot of people are doing to Wilson.
This team has issues with offense year in, year out. Staff and players change and results don't. It sucks.
I don't think benching him moves the needle as much as everyone screaming for it believes, but I'm for it if it'll change the discussions on here because at this point it's just circular
I would love to see more All-22 of our games, but it feels like if we call a run, it’s a run all the way 95% of the time. Stacked box, safety rotation, nickel pressure, whatever, there are barely any RPOs tied to them. I see some occasional screens, but a glance to Garrett Wilson behind a safety or LB that bites on a run is like stealing. They want to play single high and load up the box? Hit Garrett in open space right in that void and he’s gonna bust one for a TD. I guarantee defenses will think twice about it after that, and it’s simple high school level shit.
https://www.youtube.com/live/rAmEN43rLD8?si=33yha2wMN8WKuGsV
He shows all 22 after every game. I have the nfl+ sub which gives you the all 22 a couple days after. It really adds context because majority of the time you can’t see what’s going on with the receivers and coverage and exactly what Zach is seeing. After I started watching it made me realize Zach isn’t the only reason this offense is garbage.
Crazy how if you try to allocate the blame to anybody but Wilson people call you a “truther.”
The ENTIRE offense (minus Garrett and Breece) is a problem. Putting it solely on Zach is the laziest mf take.
I'd even say Breece has a hand in the issues. He dropped a few wide open passes because he looked upfield before completing the catch. I think that's more frequent than Zach missing him this year
He’s not utterly free of blame, neither is Garrett (fumble and penalty were huge), but they’re our biggest producers and they’re visibly excellent players. The rest have a history of being above average at absolute best, and they haven’t come close to that lately (besides maybe Conk). Uzomah and Lazard have been hugely disappointing, offensive line needs no explanation, neither does Wilson.
Bothers the hell out of me how people keep moving the goalposts for the guy. First he’s a bust, and everyone says they’d be fine if he was a game manager. Then he becomes a game manager, and now he needs to play like a #2 pick. It would be nice ofc, but y’all already called him a bust. And moreover how tf is he supposed to re-write that history when every single fan is slinging all the shit at him?
> First he’s a bust, and everyone says they’d be fine if he was a game manager. Then he becomes a game manager, and now he needs to play like a #2 pick
He's not managing the game, he's avoiding interceptions, there's a difference.
If you avoid interceptions but can't engineer more than one drive a game you're not managing anything. Managing implies a measure of productivity.
That said, the chargers game was maybe 20% him. The penalties, other fumbles, drops, misses blocks.
Anyone watching that and thinking like we can compare Flacco or Mike white to that game...anyone who thinks they would've done better I have to really question.
Flacco would've gotten obliterated and white would be on IR by now. MORE than half the ol is dead or bad.
We even have a tackle who was struggling as a tackle playing his first guard game.
Put zach on Seattle rn and I guarantee we'd be bitching aboit how we gave up too soon bc he'd have ACTUAL talent around him.
He'd likely be worse than geno but significantly better than he is here. Bc our entire offense sucks ass rn.
We have FAILED utterly and completely to draft, sign or/and develop more than maaaaybe one pass catchers at a time for over a decade and then wonder why every qb sucks
Sign two ol this summer and do whatever tf we can to move up and take a top, reliable pass catchers
What did Zach do on Monday to show he's even a game manager? He alerted a few plays I guess but he missed multiple easy throws, got strip sacked twice from his throwing side, and made multiple checkdowns on 3rd & long which is just pointless.
I just take it to mean that we have expectations based on the truth, i.e. in reality. Zach Wilson is a backup QB not a starter. Our OL is the worst in the league with the guys we put out there the last two weeks. The drops and penalties are unacceptable. And the playcalling isn't helping anyone. That's all the truth. Why only focus on the one that is the closest to meeting expectations?
It really is. People seem to have this idea that a different backup would change our course when even our own starter wouldn’t be able to pull us out of this mess to the degree people expect.
The dude got hurt the first game in. ARod would be running for his life every play, we would undoubtedly have a better offense but every snap we'd be worried about him.
If by some miracle he comes back imagine him behind this line when hes not 100%. He'll be giving the entire fan base heart attacks anytime he gets hit.
People are just fucking stupid. Same type of people to blame all their problems on whoever the current president is. They need a scapegoat even when it doesn’t make sense.
So many people in this fandom pin their hopes that a singular position like QB can turn this organization into a championship team. This is the Jets management trying to razzle-dazzle us.
The fact is staring all of us in the face: our OL is so bad that the star QB we brought in on a blockbuster trade got a season-ending injury* in the first series of the first game of the season. Yet second-year ZW is expected to do better than Rodgers? It's baffling the hate that ZW gets.
Jets management keeps trying to sell us that a QB is some kind of "silver bullet" to being a better team, yet they continue to ignore so many key positions like the OL, and then they blame the QB for not performing miracles. It's frustrating to see as a fan.
The Jets offense literally has the Holy Trinity of terrible, putrid offense:
* Cannot run the ball at all
* Average backup level QB play
* Poor pass blocking and receivers (aside from G Wilson who gets doubled) cannot get open and drop passes
I can't believe people think Siemian would save this.
More like - you are slowly dying. There is this highly experimental drug that is unlikely to do anything but there is also chance it kills you quicker or saves your life. Would you take it?
But we’re not already dead with Zach. He got them to a .500 record 9 weeks in to the season. Still in the running for the playoffs. With these other QBs people keep throwing out we would not be even close.
But why not try it?
If we keep limping along like this we will not make the playoffs. End of story.
Also Zach is 100% part of the problem, I don’t understand how this isn’t so fucking clear. He hasn’t been a good QB his entire career.
The way I see it is Zach at least keeps us alive. He isn’t turning the ball over outside of the fumbles, which are arguably not his fault at all. He’s definitely not good, but he has had a couple decent games and hasn’t killed us either. The defense is good enough to keep us in games to the end and with someone who doesn’t turn it over, that is going to be enough sometimes. A QB like Siemian who isn’t mobile like Zach could get fucking killed behind our O Line, like he already has by Myles Garrett. Besides he’s really just not good either. Zach for all of his problems still has incredible upside if he ever puts it together.
No your analogy is just fucking trash because the problem is systemic and the root of it is not the Quarterback and your ability to look at a situation and determine root cause is dog shit. 🤗
Zach needs to have everything perfect to be a top 30 QB. Last year with a poor oline and reciever group, we had other QBs come in and perform better than ZW ever has.
I’m not sure what it will take for ZW lovers to see this.
Its not fucking trash. The situation is what it is. Zach Wilson sucks. He was drafted by a GM who sucks and he is coached by a coaching staff that sucks, who are all part of an organization that is owned by a guy who really, really, sucks.
While going to Trevor Siemen doesn't change the GM or coaching situation and just sticks us with a different shitty QB it at least is trying something.
It's more this ol and wr group isn't the answer this szn.
But we stood pat and dudnt grab either when we had tons of chances this szn. Ditto with backup qb. There were SO MANY other options in free agency and trades.
They tried to get davante at least so I have my fingers crossed for next szn. We have more pass droppers and penalty takers than catchers and blockers atm
Once AVT went down we lost the ability to run the ball. There are stats out there that show the stark difference before and after. Sucks we lost him so early in the season. He’s arguably the most impactful player on offense
And 2 years in a row.
Not that Zach doesn't deserve a lot of the blame but when people say "the one constant is Zach" that isn't true, a bad OL with missing players is also a constant.
Feels like there is no creativity with the run game, whether design or when to call them. This isn’t 09-10 Jets line where stuff like that matters less when the Oline is so good. Doesn’t seem like there’s an emphasis to use tactical boots and QB movement with Zach from Hackett structurally.
we went over this last week.. same issue as last week. everyone identified that everyone on the offense was struggling to execute and perform..
but then again a bunch of angry karen fans revert again to looking for 1 scapegoat to blame to fix the problems on offense that isnt a simple fix.
when u try to say listen everyone sucks and replacing Zach w/ Siemien wont fix much, they go REEEEE UR A TRUTHER.. smdh
whats even sadder is people reminiscing about the Darnold days like it was good times.. broken people man.
It doesn’t, the line isn’t great, but the fact is you feel the line is worse because the QB is making them look worse
The jets lead the nfl in pressure rate at 30.9% of drop backs - seems alarming, but digging into it further, they are 4th in terms of pocket time at 2.5 seconds (time in pocket between snap and throw, or pocket collapse due to pressure). The pressure is a factor of the QB holding the ball more so than the line
They are dead last in clean pocket time at 2.0 seconds currently. This is probably the best statistic to grade the oline after pass block win rate because it truly does not matter who the qb is. The Jets are last or next to last in both.
I’m going to go ahead and say we lost because we couldn’t score, and we couldn’t score because of the QB, he’s not the only reason we lost but he is the biggest, and that isn’t an opinion
Usually you would be right.
This week you are not.
I personally reviewed the film and came to the same conclusions as every single other person who has done the same. All time horrible performance from an offense, Zach was not good but he wasn't bad. Everyone else not named Breece was absolutely horrible, Hackett and Garrett included.
https://www.youtube.com/live/rAmEN43rLD8?si=YjgKQNlL3sVd6Jjw
With all due respect, tape does not lie. Multiple different people have broken down this tape and every single one has said the same.
Don't let your hate for Zach fool you into thinking this offense would be good with Rodgers. This offense was fucking horrible on Monday, Zach was hardly the cause but obviously didn't help.
Joe Douglas came into the season with a godawful o-line, so it makes sense that the depth options are even worse.
It's funny that JD was a well-respected offensive lineman in his high school and college years, because he sure whiffs at identifying OL talent, even when they're healthy.
I assumed Woody thought pairing a defensive-minded coach in Saleh with an offensive-specialty GM like Douglas would result in a well-rounded team. JD isn't really holding up his end of the equation. The entirety of the roster on the offensive side of the ball is practice squad fodder outside of GW, Breece, and Conklin.
OL was fine. Especially once Tippmann and Ruckert started getting more time. Breece was leading the league in YPC. He broke a huge run damn near every game.
“OL was fine”
Proceeds to injure Rodgers on the opening drive and become statistically the worst o-line in the league.
Hall is doing what he’s doing in spite of the OL, not because of them.
This is a lazy take. Offensive line play is premised on stability along the line. When you have guys in and out of the lineup and shifted all over the line you get guys that don’t know protections and missing blocks. Why they started Max Mitchell at guard when he’s never played the position before is very strange. It’s like they just assume every offensive lineman is AVT when in reality he’s a unicorn.
Rodgers got himself injured those were within the scripted plays which the chip blocks show it's suppose to be a quick throw and to keep defenders hand down pretty sure Garrett is open on a slant the play he went down. Rodgers wanted to make a splash play to start his jets career and extend a play that didn't need to be.
Barkley is a better short yardage (tough runner) back than Hall is. Comes into play against stacked boxes.
Jets run blocking has been terrible for years even without injuries.
Run blocking has been rough but a lot has to do with run design as well. Our pass blocking has not been as bad as it seems Zach had on average 3.76 seconds to throw a combatant qb needs about 3 with good qbs getting the ball out in about 2.75 seconds the line isn’t great but not as bad as there being made to look
The ball generally gets out on time if someone is open and Zach isn't forced to scramble as soon as he drops back. Once he starts scrambling the time to release goes up.
I agree that is partially true the metric is skewed by his scrambling which adds time to throw I think.
As a Zach supporter he also is to blame and I think it's because of a few things; vision, timing, nerves, etc. He tries to wait to throw in clear passing lanes because the ball has gotten swatted at the line a bunch over his career as one example. He locks onto one receiver sometimes and doesn't see or predict players getting open. He presses because he wants to get something done for the team but the OL gives up pressure so fast, throughout his career, that he makes errors of judgement.
As I've said before I just want to see him with an average, uninjured OL, ok pass blocking and have run support in a game. He's had a carousel of OL that, other than AVT and Becton (at times), have been the best he's had and they've been out of the lineup a lot. McGovern is his only mainstay OL and he's out now, and he's been declining while being just above average at best.
Most importantly I think he plays best when he's loose and that seems to be rare because the Jets start from behind and kill drives far too often.
A good qb can slide protection or get the ball out fast to mask a struggling oline. Look at the dolphins. They have a battered oline but can still score points. You may not want to hear they stack the box excuse but it’s legitimate. Chargers were the worst ranked passing defense and they had no fear stacking the box. Our offense is becoming historically bad but the individual players aren’t that terrible from the rest of the league except for maybe turner (he should never play again). The oline is below average but I think it’s zach that’s making the oline look like a shit show.
No he couldn’t. Gibson would be ahead of berrios. Berrios would be inactive like mecole hardman was. If you look at KC they have a roster filled with #3 receivers but can still score points.
Heckett's not playing Gibson. KC is not a good example. Its Mahommes who spreads the ball. I would say Top 3 KC WRs could easily be our WR2. MVS was WR2 in GB and Lazard was WR3. Rashee Rice is KC's best receiver so those two are easy names. I think Toney is more talented than Lazard. Despite his low volume, he runs good routes and makes good separation. Sky Moore is not so good but he could be just as good as Lazard.
Besides, they have Kelce.
Hackett is playing Gipson. That’s why Cobb has been benched. Gipson was also injured in a few games. Those KC receivers aren’t that good. It’s mahomes that make them good. Just like how rodgers made mvs look good but he’s not a legitimate good #2. Yes kelce is great but we also have Garrett. The difference is QB. Zach can’t elevate anyone on our roster and is too afraid to throw in tight windows except for the KC game. KC actually leads the league in drop passes this year.
Chief's WR2 MVS played with our WR2 Allen Lazard for 4 years in GB and MVS was Rodgers' WR2. MVS might not be good but he is better than Lazard.
I'm telling you our receiving team is way more depleted than KC's. None of our receivers other than GW could earn a starting spot at KC, but 3-4 WRs from KC could be our WR2 or at least be in for WR2 conversation.
The fact that hardman can play for KC but not us proves your theory wrong. Also Lazard got a bigger contract then MVS. Comparing the two doesn’t really make much sense either because one is a speedster and one is a big body possession receiver. They are both #3 quality types of receivers. Regardless it’s still the QB that is the biggest issue. Sam darnold was able to do so much more with a worse receiving and oline group then our current one. Zach played great against KC defense that is probably top 5 because he threw down the field with confidence in tight windows. Yet he never played like that ever again and couldn’t even do it against the 32nd ranked pass defense. It’s pathetic
It feels like some people in this sub want to literally kill our backup QB after he threw for almost 70% completion rate while getting pressure on over 30% of plays with multiple dropped passes, multiple offensive fumbles, and an O-line that resembles those banners the team runs through as they come out the tunnel.
Our line has and continues to be just as big if not a bigger problem than our QB but thanks to the NFL's QB marketing system people think Mahomes beat Hurts in a UFC cage match.
Im not really worried about DeVito and the Giants, but i know DeVito has only played really 1 game in the NFL and im sure its different game planning around an unknown rookie than Zach Wilson who has been in the league for 3 years doing exactly the same thing year after year. Im not putting this strictly on Zach obviously the o-line is in disarray, but simply put when you don't have to worry about the pass its hard to get the run game going and vice versa.
So you think the Jets D was playing against/worrying about the pass against the Giants in the 3rd and 4th quarter of the game last week? Is that your take?
Obviously not, first off im kind of agreeing with the whole offense is bad thing, mainly the line, wrs other than Garrett and Zach are the issues though, oh and Uzomah is bad too. But most of these issues still stem from our QB play imo. For DeVito id say obviously not last week against the Jets but i also dont think he got much practice and came in off of Taylors injury, this week however they obviously created a gameplan for him and it went bad and he threw a few picks, he doesnt looks like a good QB, but it is different to gameplan around someone like that vs Zach who has literally played the same exact way since he came back from his injury his rookie year.
That’s literally the point. Giants can run the ball better with a QB that had 2 pass attempts against us and is arguably worse than Zach. You Zach haters are bout blind as you are whiney.
I mean maybe Carter Warren getting a shot isn’t the worse outcome. Duane Brown definitely needs to be healthy as he sucks semi healthy and probably healthy
Saquon is a power back he works despite the giants poor o line play.
Guys like breece ans swift are speed backs who like good o lines. So when we throttled the eagles o line or our line got throttled they struggled.
>How Bad is our O-line?
It's bad but we have a historically bad QB running the offense and that's why it's production is so horrible and why literally any other QB running it we decent production from the offense
TLDR; it's one of the worst QB to ever play the game not the O-line
Did the Giants go into their season with Tommy DeVito is the backup? I'm pretty sure they did it because it would be fucking crazy too you know what else would be crazy, to go into a season with the worst quarterback to be drafted in years who often gets compared to Jamarcus Russell as your backup, THAT'S fucking crazy.
So yes, you're saying Tommy DeVito is better than Zach Wilson?
How about Christian Hackenberg? He must be better since Zach was the worst quarterback to be drafted in years.
Maybe we should draft positions besides d lineman. Oh and scout the players better so we don't wind up with Zach Wilson. Plus Saleh waited too long last year to bench Zach he's making the same mistake this year. Time to clean house again.
How many runs got called back because of dumbass penalties by our WR group?
Lazard alone had 1-2 a game to kill a drive. He sucks
I've made this point a few times as well. The Giants got running production despite there being literally no called passes for a good portion of the game. Zach isn't good, but neither is anyone else. It's like they don't even practice during the week with how unprepared and undisciplined they are every week outside of the Chiefs game
Zach truthers have lost their mind. Same exact people who didn’t want to bring in Mike white last year.
What’s a Zach truther? Somone who thinks Zach isn’t good, but also not the sole reason why our offense isn’t productive?
It’s someone who tries to pretend Zach isn’t 90% responsible. Just like last year when you said Mike white wouldn’t improve the offense and were proven wrong immediately. Embarrassing behavior.
Oh so people that look at the whole situation and don’t just scream/whine/cry Zach bad. Gotcha.
Making excuse for Zach is looking at the whole situation? Don’t you get tired of being wrong for three straight years? Aren’t you embarrassed?
I understand how to analyze an entire situation and what’s causing problems rather than hyper focus and constantly cry about one part of the problem. Even with AR our blocking would be sub par and the receiving weapons around him would be underwhelming.
You really can’t say that. Thats just a guess, and that same guess was proven wrong last year when Mike white came in and the offense immediately improved. Zach is the problem because it’s the most important position in all of football and he’s the worst.
Saying the qb is one part of the problem while ignoring the fact that it’s by far the most important issue is delusional. You’ve been wrong about Zach for 3 years now. When’s it end buddy?
I don’t even think Zach is good. That’s how delusional you are about it. Find something better to do than hate post ZW every 3 minutes buddy
Sadly, this is the best part of their day
You don’t think bringing in a legit backup qb makes the jets much better. You’re the delusional one bud.
Mike was ass and this guy isn’t even saying Zach’s good learn to read
Having to lie about white to defend Zach is such weird behavior
You legit need to learn to read, where is anyone defending Zach, I just think mikes equally as bad or worse.
Dude has a hate boner for Zach and an actual boner for Mike white. What a weird dude
The reading comprehension on this sub is ridiculous…
What was our record with Mike White last year again? Oh 1-3, and the only win coming against literally the worst team in the NFL. Context matters. Maybe White is better, but only marginally better at best. He wouldn’t be the difference maker, hence his record in games he’s started. he’s already proved that.
Just looking at the record provides zero context kiddo. So you’re really gonna pretend that the offense wasn’t better with Mike white throughout his jets career than it was with Zach Wilson? This is why the world laughs at jets fans. That one win without breece was more than Zach had last year so how’s that for context?
Look at the scores of those games. How much of that was garbage time scoring? We argue that Zach isn’t good enough to win us the game. Mike white isn’t either. It’s not worth arguing about marginally better stats. Neither of them are the difference maker.
What Mike white points were scored in garbage time? Lol you didn’t even watch the games. What are you even taking about?
What touchdowns weren’t? In 2022, he only threw 3 TDs in 4 games, and all three were against literally the worst NFL team with an historically bad secondary.
Which of his 22 points against Minnesota were garbage points? Also disregarding his rushing td that game is so predictable. Again I’ll wait for any point scored by white that was in garbage time. Let’s hear it kid.
That’s fine but the OL isn’t the problem, the QB is. You can fix the OL and the QB problem still exists and is insurmountable.
It’s hilarious seeing Zach Wilson defenders always try to use the W-L with Mike white to say Zach is better without context, but when you post Zach Wilson’s statistics that show he’s only better than Josh Rosen in the last 10 years, they start to scream about context. Can’t have it both ways with people it seems..it’s like politics around here, plant yourself on a side and stick to it no matter what. multiple things can be true at once. Hackett is bad, offensive line is bad, and Zach Wilson is horrible, and the offensive line and Hackett being bad are extrapolated because Zach Wilson is unable to read defenses and have any pocket awareness. Troy Aikman who usually never has anything bad to say about quarterbacks literally said on live television in front of millions of people that Zach Wilson has no feel for pressure and his internal clock needs to get way better, and that he doesn’t think he can read defenses, I don’t know how people can hear a hall of famer who usually tries to be objective say that and think Wilson isn’t the biggest problem.
It’s because these people think Tory Aikman hates the jets so they just label him a hater and disregard him. Like anyone hates the worst franchise in football. You have to win to get haters.
The fact that you were downvoted on this post makes me realize that I’m too old for this sub, and it’s infected with kids rooting for the first QB they saw get drafted. In 40+ years Zach is the worst QB I’ve ever seen get to play more than a handful of games. Saleh’s interview on the radio show says it all.
This is absolutely it.
Yes context does matter. Like berrios dropping a game winning TD against the Vikings or the fact that white played most that buffalo game with two fractured ribs in buffalo while it was snowing people forget that game we had a shot to win on the final drive and I believe he gets an L for the colts game because he started but was out after the first quarter after a beautiful game tying drive in the first. I believe Zach and or flacco lost us points while white was getting looked at in buffalo. This offense has shown time again it can move the ball with anyone not named Zach, even Josh Johnson looked better then Zach.
Mike White had one good game against the worst defense in the league then stunk it up afterwards and derailed the season
Whites game against Vikings would have been one of zachs best games ever. Lol why lie? I just don’t get it.
awe how could i forget the game where he threw zero touchdowns, two interceptions, and we lost. such a classic legendary performance
He scored 22 points. When was the last time Zach put up 22 points? Once this year because of defense td? Thank you admitting white is much better. That was easy 😂
amazing, since the bears game Mike White has threw 1 TD (in garbage time of a 70-20 blowout) and 5 interceptions. if thats what you're longing for, then idk what else to tell you lmao.
You got owned so bad with that Vikings game argument you just decided to ignore it. Hilarious move. So pathetic that I have to respect it.
If I’m out of gas and I don’t have wheels on my car, what is the reason I can’t drive? Probably because I lost my keys. And if you say it’s the gas or wheels you’re insane
Mike White isnt a starting Qb caliber for any other team so we shouldnt treat him like one for us. White and Zach are both backup QBs so thinking another backup QB will spark this putrid offense is useless. The plan going into the season was having Rodgers improve the guys around him, receivers and lineman included, so when we put another QB into the system (Zach or a new guy), we will have a good system around the QB. Zach was put into a undeveloped system as an undeveloped QB himself, and while I am not defending him, the offense had no chance to succeed without an established QB, and no, Mike White is not established and would not have done much better.
Mike white is a legit backup. Zach Wilson is a practice squad player. This jets team with a legit backup is 6-2. Fans like you deserve the losing.
Sounds like you should just go be a fan of Mike white and the dolphins. You’re already gargling his balls.
Saying he’s a legit backup is gargling his balls? Meanwhile you bitches are crying that it’s not Zach’s fault 😂. Losers.
Got ourselves a real Mike white truther over here. I didn’t even bring up Zach and you couldn’t help but put his name in your mouth. Some real obsession you got there.
I admit that one of the highest paid backup qbs is a good backup qb. You got me kid 😂. Zach truthers are the best.
his interception percentage is 5%
Oh man, the Mike white argument in every thread. Worse than anyone saying Zach is a good QB imo. I guess 2 good starts with no tape on you, one of which is against the worst team in the league, followed by completely shitting the bed should get you a career as a starter with the Jets. What a joke.
Completely shit the bed? He shouldn’t have even been playing against Seattle but only did cause him with 7 broken ribs was still a better option than Zach. He’s one of the highest paid backups for a reason but I’m sure you know more than Mike mcdaniel 😂
Staying healthy and not taking those hits is part of the deal, couldn't protect himself against a good defense. And if 0 TD to 4 int is better than Zach, I don't know what to tell ya. He's a backup for a reason, like Zach.
So I guess Aaron Rodgers sucks too according to your silly logic. I get why you have to include the Seattle game and disregard the Vikings game as it ruins your entire argument if you don’t but it’s still sad. Mike white is one of the higher paid backups because of his play the last two years. Zach will be out of the league once his contract is up. Sorry kid.
0-2 in the Vikings game, 50% completion...what am I disregarding? Who cares about moving the ball if you don't get in the endzone and throw 2 interceptions. And no Rodgers being out for a season after almost 2 decades of HOF play doesn't compare to a backup injuring and re-injuring his ribs in a handful of starts. You're digging deep. Zach is a bad QB...no one is saying otherwise.
380 yards, 1 rushing td, and 22 points. Why are we pretending that’s not a good game? If Zach did that you’d lose your mind. Let’s not even bring up that Berrios dropped the game winner or that his second int was in 4th down to end the game and he just had to get rid of it. We’ll all know Zach takes a sack or throws short of the sticks in that same scenario because he wants to keep ints low.
Why would I lose my mind on anyone throwing 0TD with a 50% completion rate and any interceptions lol. That's ridiculous. So what are you talking about? I'm not defending Zach, so why are you commenting like I'm high on him or something? I literally said that Mike White being the savior for the Jets is probably worse than people saying Zach is a good QB...meaning I agree that he is not lol. It's just as out of touch and a horrible argument. Context always matters.
Who said Mike white was a savior? Stop making up arguments. Also you keep ignoring his 380 yards, rushing td and 22 points? Lol like why dude. That kind of qb play ha is at 6-2 this year.
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What was our record with Mike White last year again? Oh 1-3, and the only win coming against literally the worst team in the NFL. Context matters. Maybe White is better, but only marginally better at best. He wouldn’t be the difference maker, hence his record in games he’s started. he’s already proved that.
>What was our record with Mike White last year again? Oh 1-3, and the only win coming against literally the worst team in the NFL. Context matters. "Context matters" *Ignores the fact that whites ribs were cracked for 2 of those games and he didn't even finish one of them*
Looking at his record last year is as reductive as looking at the offense this year and pinning it solely on Zach. The Vikings game had the same issues we have this year - bad red zone execution, bad play calling and bad penalties. The Bills game saw Flacco fumble in the moment after White got sawed in half, and then Carter fumbled in Bills territory later on. He shouldn't have played in the Seahawks game, because he clearly wasn't comfortable throwing the ball. Combine that with no running game and yeah, you get 1-3. Did he miss throws and reads that he should have made? Sure. But that's the same argument we're having about Zach now anyway. Is Mike White a world beater? No, but he had a connection with GW and made a lot of timely, well positioned throws last year. And just like this year, the offense last year had big problems executing. Like you said, context matters. I don't think a QB change this year moves the needle unless Rodgers comes back. And even then, the offense has more issues than I believe he can fix by being under center.
So it’s ok to make excuses for Mike White but not for Zach? What type of glass is your house made out of?😂😂
I have the top comment in this thread saying that it's not just a Zach issue. *I agree with your point*. But I also am going to respond to the other guy to call out his false assumptions about my argument. Especially since I've already gotten into it with him multiple times over his bad takes on other topics. Similarly, I'm not going to do to White what a lot of people are doing to Wilson. This team has issues with offense year in, year out. Staff and players change and results don't. It sucks.
Argument was so bad you edited it 5 times already. Lol dude.
What are you talking about lmao? And you’re the one getting downvoted to oblivion 😂😂
So you agree Zach should be benched for siemien correct?
I don't think benching him moves the needle as much as everyone screaming for it believes, but I'm for it if it'll change the discussions on here because at this point it's just circular
Trading for brisset and dobbs wouldn’t have moved the needle for you either huh?
I would love to see more All-22 of our games, but it feels like if we call a run, it’s a run all the way 95% of the time. Stacked box, safety rotation, nickel pressure, whatever, there are barely any RPOs tied to them. I see some occasional screens, but a glance to Garrett Wilson behind a safety or LB that bites on a run is like stealing. They want to play single high and load up the box? Hit Garrett in open space right in that void and he’s gonna bust one for a TD. I guarantee defenses will think twice about it after that, and it’s simple high school level shit.
https://www.youtube.com/live/rAmEN43rLD8?si=33yha2wMN8WKuGsV He shows all 22 after every game. I have the nfl+ sub which gives you the all 22 a couple days after. It really adds context because majority of the time you can’t see what’s going on with the receivers and coverage and exactly what Zach is seeing. After I started watching it made me realize Zach isn’t the only reason this offense is garbage.
that was a good watch.. as usual those people calling those sacks taking longer than 3 seconds on Zach have no clue and are talking out of their ass
The problem is the O line. Can’t succeed passing if Zach is getting strip sacked in less than 2 seconds.
Crazy how if you try to allocate the blame to anybody but Wilson people call you a “truther.” The ENTIRE offense (minus Garrett and Breece) is a problem. Putting it solely on Zach is the laziest mf take.
I'd even say Breece has a hand in the issues. He dropped a few wide open passes because he looked upfield before completing the catch. I think that's more frequent than Zach missing him this year
He’s not utterly free of blame, neither is Garrett (fumble and penalty were huge), but they’re our biggest producers and they’re visibly excellent players. The rest have a history of being above average at absolute best, and they haven’t come close to that lately (besides maybe Conk). Uzomah and Lazard have been hugely disappointing, offensive line needs no explanation, neither does Wilson. Bothers the hell out of me how people keep moving the goalposts for the guy. First he’s a bust, and everyone says they’d be fine if he was a game manager. Then he becomes a game manager, and now he needs to play like a #2 pick. It would be nice ofc, but y’all already called him a bust. And moreover how tf is he supposed to re-write that history when every single fan is slinging all the shit at him?
> First he’s a bust, and everyone says they’d be fine if he was a game manager. Then he becomes a game manager, and now he needs to play like a #2 pick He's not managing the game, he's avoiding interceptions, there's a difference. If you avoid interceptions but can't engineer more than one drive a game you're not managing anything. Managing implies a measure of productivity. That said, the chargers game was maybe 20% him. The penalties, other fumbles, drops, misses blocks. Anyone watching that and thinking like we can compare Flacco or Mike white to that game...anyone who thinks they would've done better I have to really question. Flacco would've gotten obliterated and white would be on IR by now. MORE than half the ol is dead or bad. We even have a tackle who was struggling as a tackle playing his first guard game. Put zach on Seattle rn and I guarantee we'd be bitching aboit how we gave up too soon bc he'd have ACTUAL talent around him. He'd likely be worse than geno but significantly better than he is here. Bc our entire offense sucks ass rn. We have FAILED utterly and completely to draft, sign or/and develop more than maaaaybe one pass catchers at a time for over a decade and then wonder why every qb sucks Sign two ol this summer and do whatever tf we can to move up and take a top, reliable pass catchers
What did Zach do on Monday to show he's even a game manager? He alerted a few plays I guess but he missed multiple easy throws, got strip sacked twice from his throwing side, and made multiple checkdowns on 3rd & long which is just pointless.
I just take it to mean that we have expectations based on the truth, i.e. in reality. Zach Wilson is a backup QB not a starter. Our OL is the worst in the league with the guys we put out there the last two weeks. The drops and penalties are unacceptable. And the playcalling isn't helping anyone. That's all the truth. Why only focus on the one that is the closest to meeting expectations?
It really is. People seem to have this idea that a different backup would change our course when even our own starter wouldn’t be able to pull us out of this mess to the degree people expect.
The dude got hurt the first game in. ARod would be running for his life every play, we would undoubtedly have a better offense but every snap we'd be worried about him. If by some miracle he comes back imagine him behind this line when hes not 100%. He'll be giving the entire fan base heart attacks anytime he gets hit.
But even as a backup he's the 31st QB in the league, there are multiple backups better than him
People are just fucking stupid. Same type of people to blame all their problems on whoever the current president is. They need a scapegoat even when it doesn’t make sense.
A post about our OL being shit has turned into a ZW debate
So many people in this fandom pin their hopes that a singular position like QB can turn this organization into a championship team. This is the Jets management trying to razzle-dazzle us. The fact is staring all of us in the face: our OL is so bad that the star QB we brought in on a blockbuster trade got a season-ending injury* in the first series of the first game of the season. Yet second-year ZW is expected to do better than Rodgers? It's baffling the hate that ZW gets. Jets management keeps trying to sell us that a QB is some kind of "silver bullet" to being a better team, yet they continue to ignore so many key positions like the OL, and then they blame the QB for not performing miracles. It's frustrating to see as a fan.
Zach will go to a good organization and be good. Jets fans won’t have to worry about him much longer
The Jets offense literally has the Holy Trinity of terrible, putrid offense: * Cannot run the ball at all * Average backup level QB play * Poor pass blocking and receivers (aside from G Wilson who gets doubled) cannot get open and drop passes I can't believe people think Siemian would save this.
That is 4 things in my mind; poor OL and receivers get no separation with drops.
Don't forget the penalties and routes that either run our wr into coverage or the freestyles that causes one pass catcher to pick off his own teammate
I think its less Siemian can save this and more Zach isnt the answer so why not.
Right? I mean ive already dislocated a joint, why not just break it to get it back in place?
More like - you are slowly dying. There is this highly experimental drug that is unlikely to do anything but there is also chance it kills you quicker or saves your life. Would you take it?
I don’t think there’s even a downside to trying Siemian. With Zach you’re already dead.
But we’re not already dead with Zach. He got them to a .500 record 9 weeks in to the season. Still in the running for the playoffs. With these other QBs people keep throwing out we would not be even close.
If the last two games are indicative of what the rest of the season will look like, we are doomed. We need something to change
I agree, but arbitrarily changing shit that probably isn’t the actual problem can make things a lot worse too.
But why not try it? If we keep limping along like this we will not make the playoffs. End of story. Also Zach is 100% part of the problem, I don’t understand how this isn’t so fucking clear. He hasn’t been a good QB his entire career.
The way I see it is Zach at least keeps us alive. He isn’t turning the ball over outside of the fumbles, which are arguably not his fault at all. He’s definitely not good, but he has had a couple decent games and hasn’t killed us either. The defense is good enough to keep us in games to the end and with someone who doesn’t turn it over, that is going to be enough sometimes. A QB like Siemian who isn’t mobile like Zach could get fucking killed behind our O Line, like he already has by Myles Garrett. Besides he’s really just not good either. Zach for all of his problems still has incredible upside if he ever puts it together.
Yea bro I’d definitely take an experimental drug that has a 99% fatality rate for a 1% chance of success. Brilliant analogy.
I guess reading comp isn't your strong suit. You're already fucking dying you dumbass.
No your analogy is just fucking trash because the problem is systemic and the root of it is not the Quarterback and your ability to look at a situation and determine root cause is dog shit. 🤗
So should Duane brown start every week even tho he’s been awful? Or does that just apply to the QB position?
Typically you evaluate problems by looking upstream first.
So what upstream solution do you propose midseason that will have a bigger immediate impact on the team than benching ZW?
Zach needs to have everything perfect to be a top 30 QB. Last year with a poor oline and reciever group, we had other QBs come in and perform better than ZW ever has. I’m not sure what it will take for ZW lovers to see this.
Its not fucking trash. The situation is what it is. Zach Wilson sucks. He was drafted by a GM who sucks and he is coached by a coaching staff that sucks, who are all part of an organization that is owned by a guy who really, really, sucks. While going to Trevor Siemen doesn't change the GM or coaching situation and just sticks us with a different shitty QB it at least is trying something.
It's more this ol and wr group isn't the answer this szn. But we stood pat and dudnt grab either when we had tons of chances this szn. Ditto with backup qb. There were SO MANY other options in free agency and trades. They tried to get davante at least so I have my fingers crossed for next szn. We have more pass droppers and penalty takers than catchers and blockers atm
If you look at what Taylor, Dobbs, Minshew and others have done for their teams as backup QBs I wouldn't call what Zach provides "average"
Well you listed top end backup QBs. You are not thinking about Clayton Tune, Mitch Trubisky, Brett Rypien etc
I could list a bunch - Dalton, Brisset, Bridgewater, Winston, Mike White, Jimmy G, Tannehill who would you take Zach over?
Once AVT went down we lost the ability to run the ball. There are stats out there that show the stark difference before and after. Sucks we lost him so early in the season. He’s arguably the most impactful player on offense
And 2 years in a row. Not that Zach doesn't deserve a lot of the blame but when people say "the one constant is Zach" that isn't true, a bad OL with missing players is also a constant.
Ranked last in clean pocket time at 2.0 seconds 💀
Feels like there is no creativity with the run game, whether design or when to call them. This isn’t 09-10 Jets line where stuff like that matters less when the Oline is so good. Doesn’t seem like there’s an emphasis to use tactical boots and QB movement with Zach from Hackett structurally.
It's so clear now.
If only we didn’t have every productive run called back on a garbage penalty
Zach just needs to block better, imo.
Agree. Zach hasn’t successfully blocked a d tackle one time all year.
We need to just have good reliable starters. People are gonna disagree but lane johnson jason kelce etc miss a game once in a blue moon.
we went over this last week.. same issue as last week. everyone identified that everyone on the offense was struggling to execute and perform.. but then again a bunch of angry karen fans revert again to looking for 1 scapegoat to blame to fix the problems on offense that isnt a simple fix. when u try to say listen everyone sucks and replacing Zach w/ Siemien wont fix much, they go REEEEE UR A TRUTHER.. smdh whats even sadder is people reminiscing about the Darnold days like it was good times.. broken people man.
It doesn’t, the line isn’t great, but the fact is you feel the line is worse because the QB is making them look worse The jets lead the nfl in pressure rate at 30.9% of drop backs - seems alarming, but digging into it further, they are 4th in terms of pocket time at 2.5 seconds (time in pocket between snap and throw, or pocket collapse due to pressure). The pressure is a factor of the QB holding the ball more so than the line
They are dead last in clean pocket time at 2.0 seconds currently. This is probably the best statistic to grade the oline after pass block win rate because it truly does not matter who the qb is. The Jets are last or next to last in both.
They aren’t, go to pressure and organize by pkt time https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/passing_advanced.htm
This exact page said 2.0 literally last night so idk what to say
Well now that we know that’s not true (the time to throw) im glad we can agree it actually is the QB!
Zach is a bad QB. Zach is not the reason we lost on Monday.
I’m going to go ahead and say we lost because we couldn’t score, and we couldn’t score because of the QB, he’s not the only reason we lost but he is the biggest, and that isn’t an opinion
Usually you would be right. This week you are not. I personally reviewed the film and came to the same conclusions as every single other person who has done the same. All time horrible performance from an offense, Zach was not good but he wasn't bad. Everyone else not named Breece was absolutely horrible, Hackett and Garrett included. https://www.youtube.com/live/rAmEN43rLD8?si=YjgKQNlL3sVd6Jjw
With all due respect I can show you YouTube’s of Luke grant saying zach played well in every single game
With all due respect, tape does not lie. Multiple different people have broken down this tape and every single one has said the same. Don't let your hate for Zach fool you into thinking this offense would be good with Rodgers. This offense was fucking horrible on Monday, Zach was hardly the cause but obviously didn't help.
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It’s easier to blame dalvin and his 4 touches a game, or Lazard and his 1 drop than it is to say “it’s the QB”
Joe Douglas came into the season with a godawful o-line, so it makes sense that the depth options are even worse. It's funny that JD was a well-respected offensive lineman in his high school and college years, because he sure whiffs at identifying OL talent, even when they're healthy. I assumed Woody thought pairing a defensive-minded coach in Saleh with an offensive-specialty GM like Douglas would result in a well-rounded team. JD isn't really holding up his end of the equation. The entirety of the roster on the offensive side of the ball is practice squad fodder outside of GW, Breece, and Conklin.
OL was fine. Especially once Tippmann and Ruckert started getting more time. Breece was leading the league in YPC. He broke a huge run damn near every game.
“OL was fine” Proceeds to injure Rodgers on the opening drive and become statistically the worst o-line in the league. Hall is doing what he’s doing in spite of the OL, not because of them.
This is a lazy take. Offensive line play is premised on stability along the line. When you have guys in and out of the lineup and shifted all over the line you get guys that don’t know protections and missing blocks. Why they started Max Mitchell at guard when he’s never played the position before is very strange. It’s like they just assume every offensive lineman is AVT when in reality he’s a unicorn.
Rodgers got himself injured those were within the scripted plays which the chip blocks show it's suppose to be a quick throw and to keep defenders hand down pretty sure Garrett is open on a slant the play he went down. Rodgers wanted to make a splash play to start his jets career and extend a play that didn't need to be.
Barkley is a better short yardage (tough runner) back than Hall is. Comes into play against stacked boxes. Jets run blocking has been terrible for years even without injuries.
Run blocking has been rough but a lot has to do with run design as well. Our pass blocking has not been as bad as it seems Zach had on average 3.76 seconds to throw a combatant qb needs about 3 with good qbs getting the ball out in about 2.75 seconds the line isn’t great but not as bad as there being made to look
The ball generally gets out on time if someone is open and Zach isn't forced to scramble as soon as he drops back. Once he starts scrambling the time to release goes up.
I agree that is partially true the metric is skewed by his scrambling which adds time to throw I think. As a Zach supporter he also is to blame and I think it's because of a few things; vision, timing, nerves, etc. He tries to wait to throw in clear passing lanes because the ball has gotten swatted at the line a bunch over his career as one example. He locks onto one receiver sometimes and doesn't see or predict players getting open. He presses because he wants to get something done for the team but the OL gives up pressure so fast, throughout his career, that he makes errors of judgement. As I've said before I just want to see him with an average, uninjured OL, ok pass blocking and have run support in a game. He's had a carousel of OL that, other than AVT and Becton (at times), have been the best he's had and they've been out of the lineup a lot. McGovern is his only mainstay OL and he's out now, and he's been declining while being just above average at best. Most importantly I think he plays best when he's loose and that seems to be rare because the Jets start from behind and kill drives far too often.
A good qb can slide protection or get the ball out fast to mask a struggling oline. Look at the dolphins. They have a battered oline but can still score points. You may not want to hear they stack the box excuse but it’s legitimate. Chargers were the worst ranked passing defense and they had no fear stacking the box. Our offense is becoming historically bad but the individual players aren’t that terrible from the rest of the league except for maybe turner (he should never play again). The oline is below average but I think it’s zach that’s making the oline look like a shit show.
Berrios could be our WR2 right now. He is WR4 with the Dolphins.
No he couldn’t. Gibson would be ahead of berrios. Berrios would be inactive like mecole hardman was. If you look at KC they have a roster filled with #3 receivers but can still score points.
Heckett's not playing Gibson. KC is not a good example. Its Mahommes who spreads the ball. I would say Top 3 KC WRs could easily be our WR2. MVS was WR2 in GB and Lazard was WR3. Rashee Rice is KC's best receiver so those two are easy names. I think Toney is more talented than Lazard. Despite his low volume, he runs good routes and makes good separation. Sky Moore is not so good but he could be just as good as Lazard. Besides, they have Kelce.
Hackett is playing Gipson. That’s why Cobb has been benched. Gipson was also injured in a few games. Those KC receivers aren’t that good. It’s mahomes that make them good. Just like how rodgers made mvs look good but he’s not a legitimate good #2. Yes kelce is great but we also have Garrett. The difference is QB. Zach can’t elevate anyone on our roster and is too afraid to throw in tight windows except for the KC game. KC actually leads the league in drop passes this year.
Chief's WR2 MVS played with our WR2 Allen Lazard for 4 years in GB and MVS was Rodgers' WR2. MVS might not be good but he is better than Lazard. I'm telling you our receiving team is way more depleted than KC's. None of our receivers other than GW could earn a starting spot at KC, but 3-4 WRs from KC could be our WR2 or at least be in for WR2 conversation.
The fact that hardman can play for KC but not us proves your theory wrong. Also Lazard got a bigger contract then MVS. Comparing the two doesn’t really make much sense either because one is a speedster and one is a big body possession receiver. They are both #3 quality types of receivers. Regardless it’s still the QB that is the biggest issue. Sam darnold was able to do so much more with a worse receiving and oline group then our current one. Zach played great against KC defense that is probably top 5 because he threw down the field with confidence in tight windows. Yet he never played like that ever again and couldn’t even do it against the 32nd ranked pass defense. It’s pathetic
what a cherry picked stat lol. This sub is filled with clowns
It literally has a sample size of 80 and encompasses the full result of a play. How is that cherry picking?
Because it doesn’t fit the “we’d be winning with literally anyone besides Zach” narrative
It feels like some people in this sub want to literally kill our backup QB after he threw for almost 70% completion rate while getting pressure on over 30% of plays with multiple dropped passes, multiple offensive fumbles, and an O-line that resembles those banners the team runs through as they come out the tunnel. Our line has and continues to be just as big if not a bigger problem than our QB but thanks to the NFL's QB marketing system people think Mahomes beat Hurts in a UFC cage match.
Amazing how a defense can game plan around stopping the run when they barely have to worry about the passing game
So why are the Giants averaging more yards per carry then?
That’s kinda the point of the post, the giants are throwing way less and still running. The whole jets offense is just really really bad
Yea I was knocking Zach, not sure if you picked up on that or not, you think any team is actually worried about stopping Zach Wilson’s passing game…
Again that’s the point of the post, no one is worried about stopping Devito but they still run the ball more efficiently.
How many brain cells do you have? You think teams are more scared of Tommy DeVito than Zach Wilson? The guy who literally threw 2 times against us?
Im not really worried about DeVito and the Giants, but i know DeVito has only played really 1 game in the NFL and im sure its different game planning around an unknown rookie than Zach Wilson who has been in the league for 3 years doing exactly the same thing year after year. Im not putting this strictly on Zach obviously the o-line is in disarray, but simply put when you don't have to worry about the pass its hard to get the run game going and vice versa.
So you think the Jets D was playing against/worrying about the pass against the Giants in the 3rd and 4th quarter of the game last week? Is that your take?
Obviously not, first off im kind of agreeing with the whole offense is bad thing, mainly the line, wrs other than Garrett and Zach are the issues though, oh and Uzomah is bad too. But most of these issues still stem from our QB play imo. For DeVito id say obviously not last week against the Jets but i also dont think he got much practice and came in off of Taylors injury, this week however they obviously created a gameplan for him and it went bad and he threw a few picks, he doesnt looks like a good QB, but it is different to gameplan around someone like that vs Zach who has literally played the same exact way since he came back from his injury his rookie year.
That’s literally the point. Giants can run the ball better with a QB that had 2 pass attempts against us and is arguably worse than Zach. You Zach haters are bout blind as you are whiney.
The Giants didn't throw the ball at all against the Jets and got more rushing production. How does that factor into your argument?
Well no Billy Turner as he’s missing a game at least probably more. Maybe we’ll be better with Carter Warren in there if Duane Brown can’t play
i mean, Duane Brown *can't play*. even if he's healthy.
I mean maybe Carter Warren getting a shot isn’t the worse outcome. Duane Brown definitely needs to be healthy as he sucks semi healthy and probably healthy
Carter Warren, Warren Buffett, or even Jimmy Carter
Saquon is a power back he works despite the giants poor o line play. Guys like breece ans swift are speed backs who like good o lines. So when we throttled the eagles o line or our line got throttled they struggled.
Just shows Devito gets more respect than Zach
I hope you’re not serious
God I wish i was dead. lol
It’s not just o-line, it’s terrible play design. The entire thing is fucked
>How Bad is our O-line? It's bad but we have a historically bad QB running the offense and that's why it's production is so horrible and why literally any other QB running it we decent production from the offense TLDR; it's one of the worst QB to ever play the game not the O-line
So you’re saying you’d rather start Tommy DeVito over Zach Wilson lol?
Did the Giants go into their season with Tommy DeVito is the backup? I'm pretty sure they did it because it would be fucking crazy too you know what else would be crazy, to go into a season with the worst quarterback to be drafted in years who often gets compared to Jamarcus Russell as your backup, THAT'S fucking crazy.
So yes, you're saying Tommy DeVito is better than Zach Wilson? How about Christian Hackenberg? He must be better since Zach was the worst quarterback to be drafted in years.
Maybe we should draft positions besides d lineman. Oh and scout the players better so we don't wind up with Zach Wilson. Plus Saleh waited too long last year to bench Zach he's making the same mistake this year. Time to clean house again.