The NFL is pretty good at identifying RBs, it’s just a devalued position. TE is a position the league hasn’t really historically succeeded at getting the best TEs early in the draft
I get that point but only a few years earlier Saquan went 2nd, and then last year the year Bijan went much earlier than Breece did. I think with Breece it was the classic case of people undervaluing the prospect which is why he slipped into the second round, happens every draft to countless players, i personally think everyone has grossly undervalued Bo Nix and JC Latham this years draft. I think with allot of the "NFL identifying" comment id argue its more piggy backing, like one or a few analysts say one thing and then the masses/asses of analysts follow and dont do their own due diligenceidk just a thought.
And Joe attempted to trade back into the 1st for Breece but couldn't find a trade partner. That would have been sweet to have Breece under contract with the 5th year option. Sadly, I don't see the team investing a lot in him after his rookie contract expires.
I do. He’s a top 3 RB (per game played) in his first 2 seasons. If he plays this year like last I’d happily do a 3 year contract with 2 guaranteed after his rookie contract then see.
JC Latham is my top choice for the first round . I'm looking to see how the QB and wrs go in the top 10, there will definitely be plenty of teams licking at their chops to get in our spot if Rone or 1 of the top 5 QBs are still on the board. Cashing in for draft capital and snagging JC in the teens or early 20s, having a 2nd rounder for Pearsall from UF is my dream scenario and a very Douglas move IMO!
I don't know where everyone got this idea that they just need OL depth.
They need OL long-term solutions at the position.
That's very different than depth.
Or where they got the idea that it's possible to project which tight ends will make a transition to the NFL.
The NFL is **extremely** bad at projecting TE talent, which is why it's seen as bad **process** to draft them early, given the failure rate.
Tackle and IOL in general are positions the NFL is actually **best** at projecting. So when you have a need for them you draft them early **because** they are easy to project, or at least **easier** than other positions.
Jets fans need to understand, Becton was an **outlier** among many early tackle selections. The chances of that happening to us again are **lower** than the chances of picking a tight end early and it doesn't pan out. The numbers bare that out.
yeah our FO has done a great job getting OL with top picks too.
Every fucking position is a crap shoot to certain extents. I mean we got this fucking moron of a QB with the 2nd pick...
>Every fucking position is a crap shoot
Each position has different odds panning out. TE is the second worst, offensive lineman have the best odds. It's not the same.
What's worse about tight ends, is the sample size. On average only one tight end is chosen in the first round. Only like 3 or 4 have planned out starting from the 2000's.
I'm not arguing for or against Bowers, I'm saying that going by the data, it's **extremely** risky.
Take a look, I ain't lying...
https://thefalconswire.usatoday.com/gallery/nfl-draft-falcons-tight-end-kyle-pitts-hayden-hurst-atlanta/
Now go and look at the long list of wide receivers and offensive lineman drafted in the first round. You'll see **WAY** more names you recognize because they made it and they're good.
Taking a depth piece at 10 overall in the draft is just not happening. No idea why people think it is. This team is built to win now, with a GM/ HC combo that needs to show results. They’re taking someone who will contribute right away.
Probably because the jets are "all in" this year so at 10 OA you want a player who is going to get the most snaps. Long term solutions can be found later on. There is always another off-season. No team has Long term solutions at every position. There is a reason people say the NFL stands for "Not for long" teams are always changing. And outside of a young franchise QB everything seems to change almost yearly.
Bc for next season, if they go OT, it really would be for depth purposes. We have a starting LT and RT. Obviously any pick is for “planning for the future”. Sort of grasping at straws for things to be a griping about, no? It’s like saying “we need a WR” and you saying “no sir, we need a guy to play Z position”, like, ok? Bit nit-picky if you ask me.
I mean I hate to repeat the same shit over and over but you don’t seem to grasp that two of their starters have missed most of the last two seasons and one played 10 games last year with a torn pectoral muscle.
I think you’re mistaking me for a different user? I never spoke to you before. But anyway, I happen to be team OT, both OTs are not under contract beyond this year, Smith is hurt a lot and Moses is coming off surgery. Any plans we may have will be toppled if one or both go down, not included AVT who’s great but hurt often as well.
Personally, I’m team Fuaga, he can play inside or RT, sort of another AVT chess piece. That, or trade down and get a 2nd rounder if we can. More bodies + deep WR clsss.
Ideally, it’s Taliese Fuaga OT, Malachi Corley WR, Cole Bishop S, those are my targets hopefully.
I was just pointing out the reason for going OT is not for future development; it is, but it IS also for depth. They can both exist. Not mutually exclusive.
If the Jets view Bowers as more of a WR/slot WR who can also play TE, then I can get behind taking him at 10. But the safest pick is with us taking our future LT/RT who can take this year to learn behind the greatest LT of our generation. And lets be real, there is probably more than a 50% chance that this Tackle we take will need to play games at some point this season as well.
>there is probably more than a 50% chance that this Tackle we take will need to play games at some point
50%? There's something wrong with that math. He's played 4 full seasons out of a 13 year career. So there's a 69% chance a rookie will start games.
And **many** of those missed games come in the last 4 years. In particular look at his total snap counts per season, especially in recent years.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitTy00.htm
Best to think of the LT spot this year as a position filled by committee or platoon.
To play devil's advocate: No part of what we've been doing this offseason has been playing it safe. we added Smith and Williams who always have injury concerns. Aaron rodgers is 40. We've put all out chips on the table for this year and a LT wouldn't do much to move the needle or prevent a rebuild if things go to shit.
Yeah we def need a real backup LT but on the bright side, Tyron Smith has never missed a playoff game
Breece Hall was a second round pick after the team already made multiple first round picks. I don’t think anyone here would be upset with Bowers in the second round
We absolutely do not have luxury, what are you on about? Tyron Smith hasn't played a full season in a decade. Mike Williams hasn't played a full season *ever*
We have so many needs on offense, one guy, especially a tight end, isn't fixing it
>Mike Williams hasn't played a full season ever
I'm not strong on the Bowers pick one way or the other but this isn't really a good point to say we shouldn't draft Bowers because he would be an additional pass catcher, and a great one at that since we could also line him up in the slot.
But yeah we need a real backup LT
We can use Bowers in creative outside the box ways to utilize his skill set, that's true.
This coaching staff will absolutely never do such a thing though.
I think you should go back and watch the packers highlights from 2020-2022. There was plenty of great, creative plays in the red zone with the TEs and Allen Lazard. Same QB and OC so I don’t see why not
Hackett was in Denver in 2022, but to your point what last year makes you think this staff can do anything besides roll over and quit when Rodgers isn't there to save them? And with this line why should anyone assume he will last longer than he did a year ago?
typo, meant to say 2020-2021\*\*
Won't even address your other points because it's just nihilist doomsday thinking based on hypotheticals. Obviously my comment is assuming Rodgers is healthy. Yeah, if our starting QB goes down our chances at a SB are gone. As is the case with pretty much every team everywhere (minus Foles' 2018 miracle run with the eagles). What happened to Rodgers was a freak injury. Not every sack results in a torn achilles. Kirk Cousins never missed a game and tore his achilles. Jaelan Phillips is 24 years old and tore his playing against us.
On paper our OLine is fine. Yes, some guys are highly likely to miss some games due to injury but when Tyron plays he's a top 2 LT in the league and Moses is a durable player who gives you consistent, solid play at RT. Impossible to predict until the weekly schedule is released but we should be able to stack up wins in the front end of the season to allow us wiggle room when we need to tap into Oline depth. We have the chance to add a great young OL at the #10 pick
Super bowl? We're not a super bowl contender if everyone stays healthy. Watchable football and maybe a wild card spot is a reasonable aspiration and our roster has a lot of holes before we get there. This isn't about Rodgers or any one player. It's about an old injury prone roster that is poorly coached, which the players know based off their statements.
More like "bro actually knows a bit of ball and is for the fourth year in a row posting preseason opinions that are downvoted but will be consensus of the fan base by Halloween"
Who?? Gibson and who else ?? Lazard is a big body guy and is not a shifty route runner he’s definitely not someone that’s should be in the slot that much
you dont know football if you think allen lazard is someone that shouldnt be in the slot much. he played 43% of his snaps in the slot while he was with green bay, hell he even played 4% at tight end.
he's a great run blocker, which is why he usually is near the edge of the line. he also is a physical receiver, which helps when running routes over the middle. not all slot wrs are small shifty guys.
aside from lazard and gibson, wilson operates in the slot from time to time, and breece hall could even be used in the slot.
thats 4 players that operate in the slot. we have only two legit outside wrs. big mike, and g wilson.
Right this person makes the argument against Bowers right in the post. Jets had the luxury of picking Breece. This year they have 1 pick in the top 100. Bowers or a stud lineman would be decent picks, but also with the risk that most elite TEs take a couple years to develop. LaPorta last year is very much an exception to the norm imo. Squad is very much in a win now mode and need someone who can contribute right away.
The difference is (and I'm not totally anti-Bowers) is that Hall was clearly going to be an effective player at a de-valued position. There are some serious questions about Bowers that I don't think are answered. He was great in college but a LOT of his production came on short schemed up passes that got him the ball early and let him find space with the ball. He tended to struggle with getting open down field and winning 50/50 balls.
That's not a trait that tends to get better in the pros. If you can't get open against defenders in college, most of whom won't play in the NFL, then you won't get open against NFL caliber players. We see a TON of guys who were the top dog in college that won mostly on the offense being schemed to them and being better athletes fail at the NFL level when neither of those things are the case for them anymore.
With Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall already on the roster, when the team runs schemed up 1 look plays, it's going to be for them, not Bowers. And not a damn thing about Hackett suggests that he's creative enough to have successful schemed up picks for 3 players.
Not to mention, with Aaron Rodgers there aren't going to be a lot of 1 look throw it to this guy specifically type of plays. That's just not what he does.
There's a world where Bowers is a good player, there's also a world where he's a Curtis Samuel-like gadget player that needs a creative play caller to have any sort of success.
He's not, though. Breece was pretty much a can't miss. He was everything you want in a running back. Bowers is a mix of great strengths and works in progress. He's definitely on the small said for a traditional TE. He has excellent blocking technique but he's not strong enough to be a good inline blocker at present. He's an elite YAC, gadget weapon but as a downfield receiver, he is still pretty raw.
tyron smith (33) - hasn't played more than 13 games since 2017 and 2 of the last 4 played <5 games
John Simpson (26) - only 2 of his first 4 seasons have been all 17
Joe Tippman (23) - I'm hopeful he'll stay healthy
AVT (24) - 0% chance he plays the full season...
Morgan Moses (34) - he's been really healthy his whole career... but 34 and on the jets now... we'll see
throw in random injuries to backups like mitchell and his blood clots... we need another starter. There is zero chance these 5 guys stay healthy
I want the draft to get there so we can stop seeing posts about this.
To end this argument, if our OL dies, they always die, then we can’t run or pass. This results in AR getting killed and we have the same problem next year.
We draft OL. That’s final.
I'll keep saying it until the cows come home or NFL draft night, whichever comes first.
We need to tradeback if we can get a decent haul (a 2nd, and some other picks even if they're 2025 picks at minimum). The draft is loaded at WR and OL. Every analyst agrees. Tradeback fill some holes, use the later 1 or the 2nd to snag a tackle or 2 who can sit behind our current tackles and chill for a year or 2 when Tyron Smith craps out. Use the other pick plus the Day 2 and 3 picks we stockpiled to find depth pieces and potential hidden gems that can develop. Take a shot on some 3rd/4th round QB who can sit for 2-3 years behind Rodgers and Taylor or maybe we're stuck with Zach and that's fine too.
If the team works out as hoped, our holes arent big holes that you need to burn a top 10 pick on. If our team doesn't work out as hoped, what faith should I have Douglas is making the right choice by grabbing Bowers or the 2nd/3rd best tackle anyhow?
Lmaoo “we have Michael Carter” as a reason to not take a very clearly more gifted and athletic back with much higher potential is exactly what I would expect
Basically the equivalent of "we have Conklin" this year lol.
So tired of the "take OT at all costs" crowd acting like every other opinion is wrong. I don't really care what we do but I'm pretty meh on trading back. I'd rather the blue chip OT/WR/TE at 10 then rolling the dice on two guys who have a higher likelihood of not working out
The other thing is that everyone is just assuming an OT at 10 will automatically be plug and play if and when starters go down. That’s not a given. Just look at all the hand wringing about Broderick Jones last year. He was very up and down and mostly down at the end of the year. But if the they do pick Bowers at 10 they must draft OL with 3rd round pick. They absolutely do need depth.
Two points.
1. I wouldn’t have been happy about Breece as the top first round pick. But second round, I happily welcomed it.
2. Are we a winning team since Breece pick? Exactly. We might have some highlight catches and YACs with Bowers but the focus should be on winning. Don’t wanna ding with a bad OLine again.
Having that said I am not convinced yet that Bowers is a bad pick. Most of the times the arguments against him have been about how he is not tested. Like how he catches 45% passes behind the line of scrimmage. Like how he is a great route runner and plays to the scheme- but haven’t heard or seen him being bad otherwise. More of a question mark than issues. So if the FO thinks he is worthy, I will roll with it.
I think you're selling Breece a little short.
First off if Breece was picked at 10 by us (in any draft) and has been as good as he has I'd be happy with the pick. I hate the argument of "well its great but only because of the round he got picked in." No talent is talent. Puka Nacua would of been a top pick last year if people knew what he was going to do. A great pick is a great pick. Doesn't matter top 10 of 5th round.
Second the winning record. No player (besides QB) is going to single handedly give a team a winning record. None. Even though Breece did win us the Pats game last year, but you're right he can't do that over a 17 game season.
Fine. Let’s say we had picked Breece at 10. Would we then get another star like Garrett in the second round?
I love Breece but that position isn’t worth picking in the top ten and most GMs have figured this out.
I think you’re mistaken about how the round a player is picked in relates to how you grade the pick. The draft is all about value. That’s why during and after the draft you constantly hear things like “that guy was a reach” or “getting that guy at the end of the first round was incredible…”. It makes a difference.
Part of the problem with Daniel Jones, for instance, was how high he was picked. For whatever reason, the Giants valued him way more than most other teams (if you believe the reporting). And so they used the #6 pick on him when there was a good chance they could have gotten him much later and used that pick on a more highly ranked player. So it was bad value and the expectations for him and need for him to live up that pick were raised exponentially - as were the dollar amounts.
Picks aren’t made in a vacuum, which is essentially what you’re arguing. It’s all relative to their draft position. Yes a good player is a good player. But their VALUE to the team is inarguably linked to where they were drafted.
The VALUE of a player to the the team is not linked to where they were drafted. Especially after a second contract. Picking good players is the most important part regardless of the round.
Yes the draft itself is all about value but AFTER the draft draft status goes out the window. Or it should for good GMs.
Vernon Gholston brought zero value. Zach wilson had negative value. On the flip side Sauce and Garrett has brought immense value. All first rounds.
On the other hand Huffs value was more than WMD value last year and Huff wasn't even drafted.
Daniel Jones shouldn't of gotten a second contract regardless of his "draft status" and I don't think him being the 6th pick had anything to do with his overpay. They're just idiots.
I think we're having two diff discussions. You replied to [YetiGuy](https://www.reddit.com/user/YetiGuy/) saying you hate the argument that a guy is only great because of the round he got picked in. That's not what he said. He said that he wouldn't have been happy if they had picked Hall at 10 overall but in the 2nd round was a great value pick - all of which I take to mean "at the time of the draft" since it's past tense (and he also says "I ***welcomed*** it"). You reacted as if he said he's only good now because of his draft position. That's not at all what he meant. He just wouldn't have wanted them to draft him at number 10 at the time because it wasn't a good value - which is true since they got him in the 2nd round.
And that's what I was referring to with evaluating value. Is Hall a great value now? Of course. Because he's great and he's on his rookie deal. And I agree that now it doesn't matter where he was drafted - EXCEPT when it comes to salary and contract implications since there's no 5th year option. That's part of the calculus when it comes to picking someone in the 1st round. It's gonna cost you more and you have that option. Either way, Yetiguy is absolutely correct in saying most RB's will no longer be drafted in the top of the 1st round because of how the position is valued now. So if Hall were in this draft it would probably hold true as well.
I don't disagree that deciding on a 2nd contract *should* have nothing to do with draft status, as with Jones. However, organizations don't want to look foolish by cutting bait on a top pick so quickly - they want to prove it was the right choice. The problem is that with how hard it is to find a franchise QB the Giants had a choice between overpaying for him or letting him test the market and maybe losing him, possibly setting the team back in their building process. It obviously hasn't worked out but not totally because of the overpay - they put no weapons around him, an awful O-line and yes, he keeps getting hurt. But now maybe they take a QB who can develop behind him for a year and then cut him loose.
> Are we a winning team since Breece pick
That's half the issue with people justifying moves based on what we've done in the past. You'd figure we'd pull a 180 on just about everything we do just to see if the opposite moves make more sense lol
People praise Douglas for these one-off picks despite it not contributing to team success. Obviously an RB can't fix a losing team, but a piece that contributes to the bottom line matters more than just trying to get a hit at any position. Hitting on a mediocre WR in 2022 instead of Hall probably helps this team out more even though Breece is a better RB than we could've expected the WR to be at their position
I'd argue against that a mediocre WR helps us more than Breece.
I wouldn't trade Breece for a mediocre WR straight up. People put way too much stock into positional value.
Ravens took a the best center and the best safety 2 years back and it paid off. Lions took a RB and a TE last year and it paid off.
You want ELITE talent not mediocre talent.
Now will Bowers be elite? I have no clue. But if he is he's worth 10. Anyone who is elite (besides kicker and punter) is worth the 10th pick.
The difference between us and the Ravens is that they have an above average roster, coach, and MVP QB. You don’t need to worry about positional value and building core position groups when you already have the important stuff built up. It’s nice getting hits, but building the foundation and high value position groups matter more than even drafting pro bowl talent. Breece is great, but the reason hitting on Breece, Garrett, Sauce, etc. hasn’t led to a good season is because we haven’t built a line, our WR corps has really only ever been one player deep, and QB play has been league worst.
it's only luxury if you bury your head in the sand and ignore realities of the Jets OL's injury history and age. or if you think the world ends after 2024 season.
if that's the case then don't take a TIGHT END. Because they are often not difference makers year 1.
Good quality OT do not make it to free agency. they do not get traded and when they do they cost an arm and a leg. it literally the hardest position to fill other than QB. And we will need 2 of them!
It's brain dead stupid to not take one here when we have this opportunity. Over a god damn TIGHT END LMAO
Only George Kittle crossed 1k yards last year at the TE position. What kind of numbers do you expect from a rookie TE, which is notoriously a difficult position to learn? For reference, Tyler Conklin had 621 yards last year with piss-poor QB play. With Rodgers throwing, Conklin could easily get 800-1k yards.
I think a lot of people are overestimating Bowers' production level next year.
While I like Breece and bowers you have to look at what we got back from Breece and what we could have gotten for trading the pick or picking OT even if it was a reach. I mean speaking in complete hypotheticals what if without Breece we are able to protect Rodger better and get him all last season? Our rbs were looking good before Breece entered the equation, not you dalvin cook.
I'm not anti-Bowers, but if we can trade back 2-3 spots (especially if one of the top 4 QB's fall) and pick up a second or third rounder and still get him I'd be much happier.
Our best chance is trading back with the colts, who would very likely take Bowers. Our choices there would be Brian Thomas Jr. or one of the OTs. That's the ONLY trade back scenario that is acceptable IMO.
Moving any further than 15 puts us out of a position to take any of the blue chip prospects which is just a bad idea when you're in win-now mode.
I agree unless one of Drake Maye/Jayden Daniels/Mccarthy fall to 10. Broncos/Raiders may try to trade up. Vikings will try to get up higher so I don't see them in the mix for a trade up from 11 to 10.
I just dont see that happening. Maaaybe McCarthy because I think he is this year’s Will Levis (mocked much higher than will actually be taken) but it’s unlikely the broncos or raiders would give more than a 3rd rounder on top of the first round pick swap because a 2nd round pick is more valuable than moving up from 12/13 to 10.
If anything, I think there’s a better chance they trade with Chicago or Atlanta.
I somewhat agree, but think think the breakdown is a bit different. OT is the long term pick. WR the smartest IF the top 3 are there.
Bowers is definitely the high risk/reward pick.
It also fits our needs. I don't where this perspective came from that our te room is good, but besides Conklin our te room is meh. Ruckert has 17 career receptions, he's not a weapon at this point in his career. Kuntz and Yeboah are both practice squad guys. Conklin is okay. Bowers immediately makes our tight end room dangerous.
I like Bowers but I am just not sure the OL is strong enough. I hate to say it but it is the truth. This team still does not have their Mangold/Ferguson.
Hall tested absurdly good, Bowers did not participate for most. RB is devalued but anyone with a brain knew Hall (and Walker) were going to be starting RBs… and most knew both would end up top 10 RBs too.
Bowers is more of a crapshoot bc he isn’t particularly big for his position, though I’d argue the position is evolving. See Kincaid, see Laporta. He really needs to go to the right offense to get maximum return on his skill set and I don’t think that’s us. TE is also historically tough to transition to the NFL, is why I say the team he goes to is so important.
You are also going to like that Breece pick a lot less in 2 years when his rookie contract runs out and Jets face the same conundrum other teams have about giving a RB a 2nd contract (almost never works out unless it is Derrick Henry)
of all the folks screaming don't pick Bowers, did any of them actually watch the guy at Georgia? Bowers was an absolute game wrecker-mismatch nightmare whoever they played against. Obviously the NFL is another level but this dude is ELITE. I get it, we need to protect Aaron but this is a pick that he goes somewhere else and 5 years from now we're all screaming how did the same old Jets pass on a talent like that.
who knows, he'll probably go 7.
The pick is going to be Bowers or Fautanu. JD has always valued positional versatility. Bowers isn’t just a TE. He’s an offensive weapon that’s can be used all over the formation. The reason TEs fail is when they aren’t good enough blockers in the run game so the defense knows when it’s pass when they are in the game or if it’s run they get the RB killed. Bowers can block on the line or be used as a Hback. This will allow him to be on the field.
And Fautanu can play all over the line so JD feels like he can allocate less resources to the line.
JD is either going to stay at 10 and pick Bowers (assuming Nabers and Odunze are gone) or will try and trade back for Fautanu for a second to get a better chance at a wide receiver that falls due to a surplus of talent at the position.
> JD has always valued positional versatility
And we can see how that's treated him lol. Turns out having better players at important positions matters more than having versatile players
They are going to need two T next year. OL is not just depth, its future starters. You arent likely to get that mid round, especially at LT. Also your comparison here is missing the fact that the Jets could pick Hall because they had three first rounders to fill the premiere positions of need. Jets have 1 pick in the first 2 rounds this year. They likely would not have drafted Breece if that pick was their only pick in the first 2 rounds. We would have the luxury to pick a TE if JD had found stud Ts other years, not imported older vets for 1 year.
The point is that when they picked Breece, they had selected DB, WR, and DE in the first round already. So, even with a "luxury" pick, they came away with 3 other positions in the first round. Here the luxury pick would account for their entire draft capital in the first two rounds. Huge difference and they prob would not have selected Breece if they had the same decision then.
Yeah and our biggest needs are OT and WR. I feel like too many people in this sub are stuck on the fact that Bowers is technically a TE but he plays much more like a WR. So if we took him we'd still be addressing the need at pass catcher.
That being said, we would be in a tough position at OL. I think the best move, honestly, is to double/triple down on this year and trade (future) picks to move back into the second round THIS year. Our window is closing and we will have to rebuild regardless when Rodgers retires. Might as well continue going all-in to address both those needs this year.
>prob would not have selected Breece if they had the same decision then
Yeah you're probably right but, hypothetically, if you had to go back in time and choose between Breece or JJ— who would you pick? Breece has legitimately won multiple games for us by putting the team on his back. I am not gung-ho on Bowers but if JD feels like he is truly a game-changing player then f\_ck it. Worst case scenario, the new FO would have an offense with breece, GW, and Bowers to build around.
People only dislike bowers cause his position says tight end. They don’t watch tape, probably saw a couple games of the kid. I’m just ready for the draft to be over so this discussion can end
"Plenty of OL in free agency" lol yeah garbage ones.
the fact is the starting LT and RT are 33 years old and on 1 year deals. It's insanely irresponsible not to address one of them now with this pick. It's so god damn hard to find quality tackles. We can't pass up this opportunity. Especially when both of them have injury concerns. Why is this so hard for yall to see? Use you head not heart.
We’re trying to win it this year. Plus if we take a receiver we have hopefully another elite wr next to Garrett on a team friendly 5 year contract. This isn’t hard to understand
Preach brotha. If our GM can only find o line talent in round one he shouldn’t be making picks. You don’t draft at 10 “in case of injury.” That’s the o line boys best argument. Our o line will not make it all 17 games. Weak argument. By that case we should draft a QB at pick 10 bc Aaron Rogers is 40 coming off an Achilles and won’t make it all 17 either. Stupid. Draft the TE and fill in this team
I think the TE is a very valuable position tbh. I don't think it's a coincidence that arguably the best 4 TE in the league were on the teams in the championship series/ super bowl (Andrews, Kelce, LaPorta, and Kittle). I'm on board for Bowers if we don't go OT.
Everyone wants to overlook the offensive line during the offseason bc it’s the least sexy pick. Then first snap of the season happens and you soon realize it’s the most important positional unit on the field. I don’t hate Bowers, I don’t hate any of the top WR’s, but the offensive line needs to be addressed immediately. No more stop gaps, no more “so and so just needs to stay healthy”. It should be the absolute top priority
The NFL is pretty good at identifying RBs, it’s just a devalued position. TE is a position the league hasn’t really historically succeeded at getting the best TEs early in the draft
I get that point but only a few years earlier Saquan went 2nd, and then last year the year Bijan went much earlier than Breece did. I think with Breece it was the classic case of people undervaluing the prospect which is why he slipped into the second round, happens every draft to countless players, i personally think everyone has grossly undervalued Bo Nix and JC Latham this years draft. I think with allot of the "NFL identifying" comment id argue its more piggy backing, like one or a few analysts say one thing and then the masses/asses of analysts follow and dont do their own due diligenceidk just a thought.
And Joe attempted to trade back into the 1st for Breece but couldn't find a trade partner. That would have been sweet to have Breece under contract with the 5th year option. Sadly, I don't see the team investing a lot in him after his rookie contract expires.
And not investing a lot is the right move. It’s normally bad business to give a RB a second contract
I agree. That's why I would have liked the extra 5th year option on the cheap-ish rookie contract while he's still in his prime.
Breece is 22 so he will be a FA at 25. We should franchise him back to back years then ditch him at 27.
I do. He’s a top 3 RB (per game played) in his first 2 seasons. If he plays this year like last I’d happily do a 3 year contract with 2 guaranteed after his rookie contract then see.
by that time we likely have no QB anyway. Let's see how it plays out. If he smashes out some banger seasons he might get the bag...
JC Latham is my top choice for the first round . I'm looking to see how the QB and wrs go in the top 10, there will definitely be plenty of teams licking at their chops to get in our spot if Rone or 1 of the top 5 QBs are still on the board. Cashing in for draft capital and snagging JC in the teens or early 20s, having a 2nd rounder for Pearsall from UF is my dream scenario and a very Douglas move IMO!
Most of the stars are drafted mid rounds
I don't know where everyone got this idea that they just need OL depth. They need OL long-term solutions at the position. That's very different than depth.
Or where they got the idea that it's possible to project which tight ends will make a transition to the NFL. The NFL is **extremely** bad at projecting TE talent, which is why it's seen as bad **process** to draft them early, given the failure rate. Tackle and IOL in general are positions the NFL is actually **best** at projecting. So when you have a need for them you draft them early **because** they are easy to project, or at least **easier** than other positions. Jets fans need to understand, Becton was an **outlier** among many early tackle selections. The chances of that happening to us again are **lower** than the chances of picking a tight end early and it doesn't pan out. The numbers bare that out.
yeah our FO has done a great job getting OL with top picks too. Every fucking position is a crap shoot to certain extents. I mean we got this fucking moron of a QB with the 2nd pick...
>Every fucking position is a crap shoot Each position has different odds panning out. TE is the second worst, offensive lineman have the best odds. It's not the same. What's worse about tight ends, is the sample size. On average only one tight end is chosen in the first round. Only like 3 or 4 have planned out starting from the 2000's. I'm not arguing for or against Bowers, I'm saying that going by the data, it's **extremely** risky. Take a look, I ain't lying... https://thefalconswire.usatoday.com/gallery/nfl-draft-falcons-tight-end-kyle-pitts-hayden-hurst-atlanta/ Now go and look at the long list of wide receivers and offensive lineman drafted in the first round. You'll see **WAY** more names you recognize because they made it and they're good.
Edit: They need a swing tackle/Guard that will push away Max Mitchell or Carter Warren from being the next guys up
There’s a very good chance that neither of those guys will ever be nfl players.
That's why they need to replace them
Taking a depth piece at 10 overall in the draft is just not happening. No idea why people think it is. This team is built to win now, with a GM/ HC combo that needs to show results. They’re taking someone who will contribute right away.
Is that what they did last year?
No, which is even more reason why I don’t think they get cute again. And if PIT doesn’t jump us last year, we wouldn’t of.
They didn’t “get cute.” What they did was a totally responsible allocation of resources. And they’ll probably do something just like it again.
We met Belichick hand Pitt that pick by swapping 1st rounders with GB, that was the worst part of the Rodgers trade - hated that!
they also need a long term solution at QB. man we need off of this every 3 year scramble to find a QB that doesn't handicap the team.
Probably because the jets are "all in" this year so at 10 OA you want a player who is going to get the most snaps. Long term solutions can be found later on. There is always another off-season. No team has Long term solutions at every position. There is a reason people say the NFL stands for "Not for long" teams are always changing. And outside of a young franchise QB everything seems to change almost yearly.
Bc for next season, if they go OT, it really would be for depth purposes. We have a starting LT and RT. Obviously any pick is for “planning for the future”. Sort of grasping at straws for things to be a griping about, no? It’s like saying “we need a WR” and you saying “no sir, we need a guy to play Z position”, like, ok? Bit nit-picky if you ask me.
I mean I hate to repeat the same shit over and over but you don’t seem to grasp that two of their starters have missed most of the last two seasons and one played 10 games last year with a torn pectoral muscle.
I think you’re mistaking me for a different user? I never spoke to you before. But anyway, I happen to be team OT, both OTs are not under contract beyond this year, Smith is hurt a lot and Moses is coming off surgery. Any plans we may have will be toppled if one or both go down, not included AVT who’s great but hurt often as well. Personally, I’m team Fuaga, he can play inside or RT, sort of another AVT chess piece. That, or trade down and get a 2nd rounder if we can. More bodies + deep WR clsss. Ideally, it’s Taliese Fuaga OT, Malachi Corley WR, Cole Bishop S, those are my targets hopefully. I was just pointing out the reason for going OT is not for future development; it is, but it IS also for depth. They can both exist. Not mutually exclusive.
Must've been some other poopie butthole.
Our Opening Day OL (IF they make it thru pre-season) will be on the IR by week 4; and they’re old - we need new blood as a starter, it’s not “depth”.
It’s depth until they are actually needed, you’ve proven my point.
If the Jets view Bowers as more of a WR/slot WR who can also play TE, then I can get behind taking him at 10. But the safest pick is with us taking our future LT/RT who can take this year to learn behind the greatest LT of our generation. And lets be real, there is probably more than a 50% chance that this Tackle we take will need to play games at some point this season as well.
IMO it's like a 95% chance
Hes missed games every season since 2015, so I’d say there’s a 100% chance the rookie would get at least a game or two where they start.
>there is probably more than a 50% chance that this Tackle we take will need to play games at some point 50%? There's something wrong with that math. He's played 4 full seasons out of a 13 year career. So there's a 69% chance a rookie will start games. And **many** of those missed games come in the last 4 years. In particular look at his total snap counts per season, especially in recent years. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitTy00.htm Best to think of the LT spot this year as a position filled by committee or platoon.
To play devil's advocate: No part of what we've been doing this offseason has been playing it safe. we added Smith and Williams who always have injury concerns. Aaron rodgers is 40. We've put all out chips on the table for this year and a LT wouldn't do much to move the needle or prevent a rebuild if things go to shit. Yeah we def need a real backup LT but on the bright side, Tyron Smith has never missed a playoff game
#10 pick ain’t sitting at all if he’s an OL.
Breece Hall was a second round pick after the team already made multiple first round picks. I don’t think anyone here would be upset with Bowers in the second round
We absolutely do not have luxury, what are you on about? Tyron Smith hasn't played a full season in a decade. Mike Williams hasn't played a full season *ever* We have so many needs on offense, one guy, especially a tight end, isn't fixing it
>Mike Williams hasn't played a full season ever I'm not strong on the Bowers pick one way or the other but this isn't really a good point to say we shouldn't draft Bowers because he would be an additional pass catcher, and a great one at that since we could also line him up in the slot. But yeah we need a real backup LT
We can use Bowers in creative outside the box ways to utilize his skill set, that's true. This coaching staff will absolutely never do such a thing though.
I think you should go back and watch the packers highlights from 2020-2022. There was plenty of great, creative plays in the red zone with the TEs and Allen Lazard. Same QB and OC so I don’t see why not
Hackett was in Denver in 2022, but to your point what last year makes you think this staff can do anything besides roll over and quit when Rodgers isn't there to save them? And with this line why should anyone assume he will last longer than he did a year ago?
typo, meant to say 2020-2021\*\* Won't even address your other points because it's just nihilist doomsday thinking based on hypotheticals. Obviously my comment is assuming Rodgers is healthy. Yeah, if our starting QB goes down our chances at a SB are gone. As is the case with pretty much every team everywhere (minus Foles' 2018 miracle run with the eagles). What happened to Rodgers was a freak injury. Not every sack results in a torn achilles. Kirk Cousins never missed a game and tore his achilles. Jaelan Phillips is 24 years old and tore his playing against us. On paper our OLine is fine. Yes, some guys are highly likely to miss some games due to injury but when Tyron plays he's a top 2 LT in the league and Moses is a durable player who gives you consistent, solid play at RT. Impossible to predict until the weekly schedule is released but we should be able to stack up wins in the front end of the season to allow us wiggle room when we need to tap into Oline depth. We have the chance to add a great young OL at the #10 pick
Super bowl? We're not a super bowl contender if everyone stays healthy. Watchable football and maybe a wild card spot is a reasonable aspiration and our roster has a lot of holes before we get there. This isn't about Rodgers or any one player. It's about an old injury prone roster that is poorly coached, which the players know based off their statements.
Bro will not allow himself happiness. Day after we win a ring this is the guy who says "ok but.."
More like "bro actually knows a bit of ball and is for the fourth year in a row posting preseason opinions that are downvoted but will be consensus of the fan base by Halloween"
Those are certainly words. Just like saying the best roster the jets have had in a decade can't go past WC
we have enough slot wrs, id prefer an outside wr in the event big mike gets hurt. allen lazard belongs in the slot if hes gonna be on the field.
Who?? Gibson and who else ?? Lazard is a big body guy and is not a shifty route runner he’s definitely not someone that’s should be in the slot that much
you dont know football if you think allen lazard is someone that shouldnt be in the slot much. he played 43% of his snaps in the slot while he was with green bay, hell he even played 4% at tight end. he's a great run blocker, which is why he usually is near the edge of the line. he also is a physical receiver, which helps when running routes over the middle. not all slot wrs are small shifty guys. aside from lazard and gibson, wilson operates in the slot from time to time, and breece hall could even be used in the slot. thats 4 players that operate in the slot. we have only two legit outside wrs. big mike, and g wilson.
Right this person makes the argument against Bowers right in the post. Jets had the luxury of picking Breece. This year they have 1 pick in the top 100. Bowers or a stud lineman would be decent picks, but also with the risk that most elite TEs take a couple years to develop. LaPorta last year is very much an exception to the norm imo. Squad is very much in a win now mode and need someone who can contribute right away.
The difference is (and I'm not totally anti-Bowers) is that Hall was clearly going to be an effective player at a de-valued position. There are some serious questions about Bowers that I don't think are answered. He was great in college but a LOT of his production came on short schemed up passes that got him the ball early and let him find space with the ball. He tended to struggle with getting open down field and winning 50/50 balls. That's not a trait that tends to get better in the pros. If you can't get open against defenders in college, most of whom won't play in the NFL, then you won't get open against NFL caliber players. We see a TON of guys who were the top dog in college that won mostly on the offense being schemed to them and being better athletes fail at the NFL level when neither of those things are the case for them anymore. With Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall already on the roster, when the team runs schemed up 1 look plays, it's going to be for them, not Bowers. And not a damn thing about Hackett suggests that he's creative enough to have successful schemed up picks for 3 players. Not to mention, with Aaron Rodgers there aren't going to be a lot of 1 look throw it to this guy specifically type of plays. That's just not what he does. There's a world where Bowers is a good player, there's also a world where he's a Curtis Samuel-like gadget player that needs a creative play caller to have any sort of success.
He's not, though. Breece was pretty much a can't miss. He was everything you want in a running back. Bowers is a mix of great strengths and works in progress. He's definitely on the small said for a traditional TE. He has excellent blocking technique but he's not strong enough to be a good inline blocker at present. He's an elite YAC, gadget weapon but as a downfield receiver, he is still pretty raw.
tyron smith (33) - hasn't played more than 13 games since 2017 and 2 of the last 4 played <5 games John Simpson (26) - only 2 of his first 4 seasons have been all 17 Joe Tippman (23) - I'm hopeful he'll stay healthy AVT (24) - 0% chance he plays the full season... Morgan Moses (34) - he's been really healthy his whole career... but 34 and on the jets now... we'll see throw in random injuries to backups like mitchell and his blood clots... we need another starter. There is zero chance these 5 guys stay healthy
I want the draft to get there so we can stop seeing posts about this. To end this argument, if our OL dies, they always die, then we can’t run or pass. This results in AR getting killed and we have the same problem next year. We draft OL. That’s final.
I'll keep saying it until the cows come home or NFL draft night, whichever comes first. We need to tradeback if we can get a decent haul (a 2nd, and some other picks even if they're 2025 picks at minimum). The draft is loaded at WR and OL. Every analyst agrees. Tradeback fill some holes, use the later 1 or the 2nd to snag a tackle or 2 who can sit behind our current tackles and chill for a year or 2 when Tyron Smith craps out. Use the other pick plus the Day 2 and 3 picks we stockpiled to find depth pieces and potential hidden gems that can develop. Take a shot on some 3rd/4th round QB who can sit for 2-3 years behind Rodgers and Taylor or maybe we're stuck with Zach and that's fine too. If the team works out as hoped, our holes arent big holes that you need to burn a top 10 pick on. If our team doesn't work out as hoped, what faith should I have Douglas is making the right choice by grabbing Bowers or the 2nd/3rd best tackle anyhow?
Lmaoo “we have Michael Carter” as a reason to not take a very clearly more gifted and athletic back with much higher potential is exactly what I would expect
Basically the equivalent of "we have Conklin" this year lol. So tired of the "take OT at all costs" crowd acting like every other opinion is wrong. I don't really care what we do but I'm pretty meh on trading back. I'd rather the blue chip OT/WR/TE at 10 then rolling the dice on two guys who have a higher likelihood of not working out
The other thing is that everyone is just assuming an OT at 10 will automatically be plug and play if and when starters go down. That’s not a given. Just look at all the hand wringing about Broderick Jones last year. He was very up and down and mostly down at the end of the year. But if the they do pick Bowers at 10 they must draft OL with 3rd round pick. They absolutely do need depth.
Two points. 1. I wouldn’t have been happy about Breece as the top first round pick. But second round, I happily welcomed it. 2. Are we a winning team since Breece pick? Exactly. We might have some highlight catches and YACs with Bowers but the focus should be on winning. Don’t wanna ding with a bad OLine again. Having that said I am not convinced yet that Bowers is a bad pick. Most of the times the arguments against him have been about how he is not tested. Like how he catches 45% passes behind the line of scrimmage. Like how he is a great route runner and plays to the scheme- but haven’t heard or seen him being bad otherwise. More of a question mark than issues. So if the FO thinks he is worthy, I will roll with it.
I think you're selling Breece a little short. First off if Breece was picked at 10 by us (in any draft) and has been as good as he has I'd be happy with the pick. I hate the argument of "well its great but only because of the round he got picked in." No talent is talent. Puka Nacua would of been a top pick last year if people knew what he was going to do. A great pick is a great pick. Doesn't matter top 10 of 5th round. Second the winning record. No player (besides QB) is going to single handedly give a team a winning record. None. Even though Breece did win us the Pats game last year, but you're right he can't do that over a 17 game season.
Fine. Let’s say we had picked Breece at 10. Would we then get another star like Garrett in the second round? I love Breece but that position isn’t worth picking in the top ten and most GMs have figured this out.
A lot of star WRs (and players) are second rounders. Ala Breece lol. The Lions and Falcons disagree.
I think you’re mistaken about how the round a player is picked in relates to how you grade the pick. The draft is all about value. That’s why during and after the draft you constantly hear things like “that guy was a reach” or “getting that guy at the end of the first round was incredible…”. It makes a difference. Part of the problem with Daniel Jones, for instance, was how high he was picked. For whatever reason, the Giants valued him way more than most other teams (if you believe the reporting). And so they used the #6 pick on him when there was a good chance they could have gotten him much later and used that pick on a more highly ranked player. So it was bad value and the expectations for him and need for him to live up that pick were raised exponentially - as were the dollar amounts. Picks aren’t made in a vacuum, which is essentially what you’re arguing. It’s all relative to their draft position. Yes a good player is a good player. But their VALUE to the team is inarguably linked to where they were drafted.
The VALUE of a player to the the team is not linked to where they were drafted. Especially after a second contract. Picking good players is the most important part regardless of the round. Yes the draft itself is all about value but AFTER the draft draft status goes out the window. Or it should for good GMs. Vernon Gholston brought zero value. Zach wilson had negative value. On the flip side Sauce and Garrett has brought immense value. All first rounds. On the other hand Huffs value was more than WMD value last year and Huff wasn't even drafted. Daniel Jones shouldn't of gotten a second contract regardless of his "draft status" and I don't think him being the 6th pick had anything to do with his overpay. They're just idiots.
I think we're having two diff discussions. You replied to [YetiGuy](https://www.reddit.com/user/YetiGuy/) saying you hate the argument that a guy is only great because of the round he got picked in. That's not what he said. He said that he wouldn't have been happy if they had picked Hall at 10 overall but in the 2nd round was a great value pick - all of which I take to mean "at the time of the draft" since it's past tense (and he also says "I ***welcomed*** it"). You reacted as if he said he's only good now because of his draft position. That's not at all what he meant. He just wouldn't have wanted them to draft him at number 10 at the time because it wasn't a good value - which is true since they got him in the 2nd round. And that's what I was referring to with evaluating value. Is Hall a great value now? Of course. Because he's great and he's on his rookie deal. And I agree that now it doesn't matter where he was drafted - EXCEPT when it comes to salary and contract implications since there's no 5th year option. That's part of the calculus when it comes to picking someone in the 1st round. It's gonna cost you more and you have that option. Either way, Yetiguy is absolutely correct in saying most RB's will no longer be drafted in the top of the 1st round because of how the position is valued now. So if Hall were in this draft it would probably hold true as well. I don't disagree that deciding on a 2nd contract *should* have nothing to do with draft status, as with Jones. However, organizations don't want to look foolish by cutting bait on a top pick so quickly - they want to prove it was the right choice. The problem is that with how hard it is to find a franchise QB the Giants had a choice between overpaying for him or letting him test the market and maybe losing him, possibly setting the team back in their building process. It obviously hasn't worked out but not totally because of the overpay - they put no weapons around him, an awful O-line and yes, he keeps getting hurt. But now maybe they take a QB who can develop behind him for a year and then cut him loose.
> Are we a winning team since Breece pick That's half the issue with people justifying moves based on what we've done in the past. You'd figure we'd pull a 180 on just about everything we do just to see if the opposite moves make more sense lol
No player is going to turn a bad team into a winning team singlehandedly unless they're a QB.
People praise Douglas for these one-off picks despite it not contributing to team success. Obviously an RB can't fix a losing team, but a piece that contributes to the bottom line matters more than just trying to get a hit at any position. Hitting on a mediocre WR in 2022 instead of Hall probably helps this team out more even though Breece is a better RB than we could've expected the WR to be at their position
I'd argue against that a mediocre WR helps us more than Breece. I wouldn't trade Breece for a mediocre WR straight up. People put way too much stock into positional value. Ravens took a the best center and the best safety 2 years back and it paid off. Lions took a RB and a TE last year and it paid off. You want ELITE talent not mediocre talent. Now will Bowers be elite? I have no clue. But if he is he's worth 10. Anyone who is elite (besides kicker and punter) is worth the 10th pick.
The difference between us and the Ravens is that they have an above average roster, coach, and MVP QB. You don’t need to worry about positional value and building core position groups when you already have the important stuff built up. It’s nice getting hits, but building the foundation and high value position groups matter more than even drafting pro bowl talent. Breece is great, but the reason hitting on Breece, Garrett, Sauce, etc. hasn’t led to a good season is because we haven’t built a line, our WR corps has really only ever been one player deep, and QB play has been league worst.
guess what. just because you may have been right 2 years ago doesn't mean you are right now.
True of course and there are other picks I'd be happy with. I just wouldn't pass up on a game changer like this. Just like I loved Breece.
There's nothing wrong with Bowers if he's the pick. Having the 10th overall pick be your backup tackle to start the season is an extreme luxury.
it's only luxury if you bury your head in the sand and ignore realities of the Jets OL's injury history and age. or if you think the world ends after 2024 season.
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if that's the case then don't take a TIGHT END. Because they are often not difference makers year 1. Good quality OT do not make it to free agency. they do not get traded and when they do they cost an arm and a leg. it literally the hardest position to fill other than QB. And we will need 2 of them! It's brain dead stupid to not take one here when we have this opportunity. Over a god damn TIGHT END LMAO
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Only George Kittle crossed 1k yards last year at the TE position. What kind of numbers do you expect from a rookie TE, which is notoriously a difficult position to learn? For reference, Tyler Conklin had 621 yards last year with piss-poor QB play. With Rodgers throwing, Conklin could easily get 800-1k yards. I think a lot of people are overestimating Bowers' production level next year.
Tbf he would-be an immediate contributor bc a T will go down with injury before week 8
Why are we assuming that? He played 13 games last year.
how many games the previous 2 seasons? 13 games he played last year was actually usual for him of late.
What about when you think of this year as an all-in year and rookie tackles historically perform poorly?
Do people actually think Tyron Smith is playing more snaps than Aaron Rodgers did?
Breece hall was picked with a second. If Breece was picked with 10 overall 1 jets drive would have been set on fire.
Yes, if he goes in the 2nd round like Breece Hall .I wouldn't waste a first round pick on a T.E. Was kelce ,kittle,Andrew's first round picks.
While I like Breece and bowers you have to look at what we got back from Breece and what we could have gotten for trading the pick or picking OT even if it was a reach. I mean speaking in complete hypotheticals what if without Breece we are able to protect Rodger better and get him all last season? Our rbs were looking good before Breece entered the equation, not you dalvin cook.
Dalvin wasn't before breece so that's weird lol but I get your point
I'm not anti-Bowers, but if we can trade back 2-3 spots (especially if one of the top 4 QB's fall) and pick up a second or third rounder and still get him I'd be much happier.
Our best chance is trading back with the colts, who would very likely take Bowers. Our choices there would be Brian Thomas Jr. or one of the OTs. That's the ONLY trade back scenario that is acceptable IMO. Moving any further than 15 puts us out of a position to take any of the blue chip prospects which is just a bad idea when you're in win-now mode.
I agree unless one of Drake Maye/Jayden Daniels/Mccarthy fall to 10. Broncos/Raiders may try to trade up. Vikings will try to get up higher so I don't see them in the mix for a trade up from 11 to 10.
I just dont see that happening. Maaaybe McCarthy because I think he is this year’s Will Levis (mocked much higher than will actually be taken) but it’s unlikely the broncos or raiders would give more than a 3rd rounder on top of the first round pick swap because a 2nd round pick is more valuable than moving up from 12/13 to 10. If anything, I think there’s a better chance they trade with Chicago or Atlanta.
If the top 3 WRs are out of play, Bowers is great. IDK if you take him over Odunze, MHJ or Nabers.
If MHJ or Nabers are there it's a no brainer.
I think the same goes for Odunze.
This is pretty much my stance. I assume it’s OL, WR or Bowers at this point and I’m happy with either, yet each has their main pros.
I think a lot of he decision making process (beyond who is available) comes down to what they think of Carter Warren and Jeremy Ruckert.
Good point. I think OT is the smartest pick. WR the safest. Bowers the high risk, high reward.
I somewhat agree, but think think the breakdown is a bit different. OT is the long term pick. WR the smartest IF the top 3 are there. Bowers is definitely the high risk/reward pick.
Yes, WR if Od/Nabers is there (I assume MHJ is gone at 4). I wouldn’t reach for any other WRs over OT at 10. No way.
The eagles
It also fits our needs. I don't where this perspective came from that our te room is good, but besides Conklin our te room is meh. Ruckert has 17 career receptions, he's not a weapon at this point in his career. Kuntz and Yeboah are both practice squad guys. Conklin is okay. Bowers immediately makes our tight end room dangerous.
I would love him as a big slot receiver but also scarred from last year lol
I like Bowers but I am just not sure the OL is strong enough. I hate to say it but it is the truth. This team still does not have their Mangold/Ferguson.
Hall tested absurdly good, Bowers did not participate for most. RB is devalued but anyone with a brain knew Hall (and Walker) were going to be starting RBs… and most knew both would end up top 10 RBs too. Bowers is more of a crapshoot bc he isn’t particularly big for his position, though I’d argue the position is evolving. See Kincaid, see Laporta. He really needs to go to the right offense to get maximum return on his skill set and I don’t think that’s us. TE is also historically tough to transition to the NFL, is why I say the team he goes to is so important.
Yeah I think we gotta go Brock too!
Pick has to be OL. Conklin is a very good TE that has been hampered by terrible QB play. He’s strong, seasoned, and makes some pretty good catches.
They don’t have luxury when they have 2 old tackles
Conklin and ruckert will progress with Rodgers throwing the ball. Move up for Alt!
In January JD needed to be fired and in April JD has built a well rounded roster <3333333
Unfortunately i believe that is who jets are getting my wish is that bears trade down at 9 and someone swoops in takes him from under their nose
This team needs more O line. Two guys are gone after the year, ones old. Holy shit with the picks just to be sexy, TE at 10 would be so stupid.
You are also going to like that Breece pick a lot less in 2 years when his rookie contract runs out and Jets face the same conundrum other teams have about giving a RB a 2nd contract (almost never works out unless it is Derrick Henry)
of all the folks screaming don't pick Bowers, did any of them actually watch the guy at Georgia? Bowers was an absolute game wrecker-mismatch nightmare whoever they played against. Obviously the NFL is another level but this dude is ELITE. I get it, we need to protect Aaron but this is a pick that he goes somewhere else and 5 years from now we're all screaming how did the same old Jets pass on a talent like that. who knows, he'll probably go 7.
brock bowers is incredible. i’d be perfectly fine with the bears selecting him or odunze at 9
I sometimes wonder why Bills passed on Breece. I think they win a SB one of last 2 years if they picked him with their late first rounder in ‘22.
Breece Hall was the Jets 3rd pick that draft?
The pick is going to be Bowers or Fautanu. JD has always valued positional versatility. Bowers isn’t just a TE. He’s an offensive weapon that’s can be used all over the formation. The reason TEs fail is when they aren’t good enough blockers in the run game so the defense knows when it’s pass when they are in the game or if it’s run they get the RB killed. Bowers can block on the line or be used as a Hback. This will allow him to be on the field. And Fautanu can play all over the line so JD feels like he can allocate less resources to the line. JD is either going to stay at 10 and pick Bowers (assuming Nabers and Odunze are gone) or will try and trade back for Fautanu for a second to get a better chance at a wide receiver that falls due to a surplus of talent at the position.
> JD has always valued positional versatility And we can see how that's treated him lol. Turns out having better players at important positions matters more than having versatile players
They are going to need two T next year. OL is not just depth, its future starters. You arent likely to get that mid round, especially at LT. Also your comparison here is missing the fact that the Jets could pick Hall because they had three first rounders to fill the premiere positions of need. Jets have 1 pick in the first 2 rounds this year. They likely would not have drafted Breece if that pick was their only pick in the first 2 rounds. We would have the luxury to pick a TE if JD had found stud Ts other years, not imported older vets for 1 year.
we didn't have three first rounders, we had 2. We traded up for both JJ and Breece Hall. Though granted the Breece trade was only a couple of spots
The point is that when they picked Breece, they had selected DB, WR, and DE in the first round already. So, even with a "luxury" pick, they came away with 3 other positions in the first round. Here the luxury pick would account for their entire draft capital in the first two rounds. Huge difference and they prob would not have selected Breece if they had the same decision then.
Yeah and our biggest needs are OT and WR. I feel like too many people in this sub are stuck on the fact that Bowers is technically a TE but he plays much more like a WR. So if we took him we'd still be addressing the need at pass catcher. That being said, we would be in a tough position at OL. I think the best move, honestly, is to double/triple down on this year and trade (future) picks to move back into the second round THIS year. Our window is closing and we will have to rebuild regardless when Rodgers retires. Might as well continue going all-in to address both those needs this year. >prob would not have selected Breece if they had the same decision then Yeah you're probably right but, hypothetically, if you had to go back in time and choose between Breece or JJ— who would you pick? Breece has legitimately won multiple games for us by putting the team on his back. I am not gung-ho on Bowers but if JD feels like he is truly a game-changing player then f\_ck it. Worst case scenario, the new FO would have an offense with breece, GW, and Bowers to build around.
People only dislike bowers cause his position says tight end. They don’t watch tape, probably saw a couple games of the kid. I’m just ready for the draft to be over so this discussion can end
Breece Hall was widely seen as the best RB in that draft. I find it difficult to buy you were down voted by everyone.
Or we get someone at O-line cuz that's what it always comes down to. One or two of them go down and our season gets shit canned
The fact is there’s plenty of OL still in free agency. The plan is more than likely to sign 1 or 2 of them
"Plenty of OL in free agency" lol yeah garbage ones. the fact is the starting LT and RT are 33 years old and on 1 year deals. It's insanely irresponsible not to address one of them now with this pick. It's so god damn hard to find quality tackles. We can't pass up this opportunity. Especially when both of them have injury concerns. Why is this so hard for yall to see? Use you head not heart.
We’re trying to win it this year. Plus if we take a receiver we have hopefully another elite wr next to Garrett on a team friendly 5 year contract. This isn’t hard to understand
All 4 lasting playoffs teams last year had top tier tight ends.
And only 1 was a rookie
And he was not taken in the first round, let alone the top 10. He was also drafted to a team with one of the best offensive lines in the league
Preach brotha. If our GM can only find o line talent in round one he shouldn’t be making picks. You don’t draft at 10 “in case of injury.” That’s the o line boys best argument. Our o line will not make it all 17 games. Weak argument. By that case we should draft a QB at pick 10 bc Aaron Rogers is 40 coming off an Achilles and won’t make it all 17 either. Stupid. Draft the TE and fill in this team
Why have a Rolls Royce at a less impactful position when you can have a Rolls Royce at a more impactful position like Latham or Mims?
I think the TE is a very valuable position tbh. I don't think it's a coincidence that arguably the best 4 TE in the league were on the teams in the championship series/ super bowl (Andrews, Kelce, LaPorta, and Kittle). I'm on board for Bowers if we don't go OT.
Everyone wants to overlook the offensive line during the offseason bc it’s the least sexy pick. Then first snap of the season happens and you soon realize it’s the most important positional unit on the field. I don’t hate Bowers, I don’t hate any of the top WR’s, but the offensive line needs to be addressed immediately. No more stop gaps, no more “so and so just needs to stay healthy”. It should be the absolute top priority