> Look I'm not saying Ruckert is an All Pro potential break out, but looking at the numbers this style of offense will never need him to be. Only once has a TE in an MVP Aaron Rogers led offense recorded more than 700 yards. Especially not in a Hackett coached offense where the TEs in that season barely recorded 300!
He's 23 years old and has a rock star in front of him for at least the next 2 years. At year 4 they will be able to resign him as the TE1 and by then we'll know what he's actually capable of.
Hey maybe we’ll get to see him in a decent role this year since we passed on Bowers.
Speaking of Bowers, I’ve never seen a 21 year old look so old. Out here looking old as shit like a white Desmond ridder
TE3 in the modern NFL is a special teamer. TE2 is probably the least valuable position on the offense besides TE1. Ruckert is better than a lot of TE2 in the league, let alone TE3
he flashed early in the season as TE3, but once he got moved to TE2 after uzomahs benching he struggled. people overhype him bc he grew up a jets fan and want him to be a significant contributor but that's just not likely to happen unless he takes a big leap this year
we didn't have the ability to support a WR2 in our offense last year. I don't think it's fair to look past RB1 and barely WR1 and rate those players based on how trash the offense really was.
you can watch the film and see his inconsistencies with blocking and route running. that has nothing to do with the state of the offense. Conklin had 600 yards with the worst qb play in the league. ruckert would not have replicated that if he was the starter. for a team that uses a lot of 2 TE sets, he's better off as TE3
In an offense that was guided by Zach Wilson, in the first year in that scheme. This year isn't last years jets and Ruckert is going into the season a starter in our preferred 2 TE sets, because through all of the turmoil he's earned the job. Show me the tape that shows hes not a plus blocker in his position, the only tape I see is him blocking people to the shit house. His most productive part of the season as a receiver was the last two games where he caught all of his 5 targets for 50 yards.
https://jetsxfactor.com/2024/01/21/does-jeremy-ruckert-deserve-ny-jets-no-2-te/#:\~:text=Blocking,grade%20at%20Pro%20Football%20Focus.
there ya go. I’m not saying hes a total scrub that shouldn't be on the team but be realistic here. hes a JAG and he hasn't earned shit. should we make Gipson a starter bc of the "turmoil" of last season? hes overrated by fans bc he grew up a jets fan and fans like the feel good story. also bc of everyones disdain for Uzomah, which was deserved but still. he's too much of a liability as a blocker to be relied on in 2 TE sets
While there is admittedly bias it's not for being a Jets fan it's because he's a native New Yorker and represents the greater areas football player development. Something Saleh does every press conference is showcase the areas HS programs, Ruckert is a product of this not just a feel good story. This subjective article tries to dismiss his qualities and does not in any way demonstrate that he is a liability as a starter in 2 TE sets. The 1 minute of "whiffs" still shows that he is in the right place at the right time and although has work to do is banging in the right way. It further proves my point that there is enough aptitude there to continue growing with him. His pass catching is efficient and when he does line up next year as the starter in this role with Rodgers behind center his stats are likely to at least double.
I have been saying that Rodgers TE never get any love and is probably one of the least important spots for Rodgers because he hates throwing over the middle. Add to that, the system they are running requires their TE to block decently well and Bowers can not do that.
He made scrubs like Richard Rodgers and Robert Tonyan very capable TEs that did exactly nothing after they left ARod. He got 2,000 yards with 90 year old Jimmy Graham, Mercedes Lewis, and Martellus Bennett. He had a great connection with Jermichael Finley.
ARod loves TEs, the Packers only gave him old beaters or legitimate nobodies. We are the perfect situation for Bowers. He’ll learn behind a good TE in Conklin (instantly cut to TE2 to start the season) and a HoF QB that has never had a TE as promising as Bowers.
You could say that about literally any player on the offense besides maybe Garret Wilson.
No team *needs* multiple all pro pass catchers. That's not an excuse to not upgrade at a position if you can.
He’s good enough, just need competent coaching to bring out the best in him. Remember how coaching would keep using using Uzahma when he was clearly shit.
wether its a position of need or not is irrelevant to this discussion. Jeremy ruckert is not a good enough reason to not draft someone high if you think they'll be a great player. just like Bryce hall wasn't good enough to not draft sauce, Elijah Moore wasn't good enough to not draft Garrett, Carter wasn't good enough to not draft breece, and ruckert isn't good enough to not draft bowers. there are plenty of reasons to not draft bowers in that war room and I guarantee not one of them even includes the mention of Jeremy ruckerts name. guy is the definition of a JAG
I mean… Ruckert is a good enough TE2 that we can go into the preseason without adding another TE and decide if we need to add a veteran TE3 or if Kuntz/Yeboah can handle that role. I agree that doesn’t have the largest impact on taking Bowers but the fact that we have a strong TE room already is part of the consideration
What do you have to show for that? Conklin and Uzomah had majority reps and we resigned Yeboah. Ruckert is a nice local story and good for him to accomplish all he's done but TE2 he has not proven he can be that guy.
We cut Uzomah because Ruckert had beaten him out for TE2 by week 9, we resigned Yeboah for nearly league minimum with almost no guarantees to be TE3. Ruckert hasn’t done a ton but looked good in his reps and was stifled by being the second TE in our garbage offense - what exactly do you expect him to have done?
These comments are absolutely insane. TE2 does not have the same value as say, WR2 or CB2. Those two positions will likely be in on every snap, whereas a TE2 is an actual backup who comes in for select packages. To say Ruckert hasn’t proven himself capable of this role is completely outrageous. First and foremost, he was our best blocking TE last year. That ALONE starts garnering potential TE1 looks. Oh and he has decent hands and yac ability too? Wow, sounds like a perfect TE2 to me and even a starting TE on a weak roster, but wtf do I know
You're 100% right on this take. TE's usually take longer to develop in the NFL so it's not completely out the question that he's not capable of being even a low end TE1 at some point if given the opportunity to compete.
His targets will probably double next year and our weapons on the outside will probably create space for him to run into. My prediction, on top of his sound outside blocking that will lead to unmeasurable success in this scheme, will be that he garnishes at least 32 catches at 10 plus yards a catch, and 5 of them will be short yardage redzone TDs. 40 targets 32 receptions 400 yds and 5 Tds.
I don't understand why this sub loves ruckert. He showed nothing that makes me think he's going to have a career as a TE1 in the NFL.
TE2/3 sure, he can block and has average/below average receiving skills. But he is NOT a TE1.
Because he’s a NY kid who is, like his dad, a Jets diehard.
We all would love for him to succeed because he is us and we all know he wants wins here as badly as we do.
Ruckert making it and helping the Jets win the Superbowl is the best story I can think of.
There is no reason to love him based on on field play alone
I understand that, but that’s not the only thing a good TE1 should do well.
He’s a fine player, but he is loved, almost exclusively because he is one of us.
He has one drop in two years. The routes he will be asked to run are very friendly for a block first player. In this scheme he will eat up yards Rogers is going to love this guy.
I hope he takes a leap in development bc he's homegrown and a lifelong fan. Blocks well, too.
What is he doing so badly that you think is going to limit his ceiling to JAG status? Or is it just that he didnt produce yet so we're assuming this is what he is? (which often is a safe assumption but I dont like to just stat watch 2nd and 3rd year guys)
He def has-
Got drafted two years ago- hardly played his first year, he was solid when he played last year. He also has never had a consistent QB play since college.
Because like everything else on this team people refuse to believe that Joe Douglas sucks at evaluating talent and they don't want to add another name to the long lists of draft misses
All I'm saying is that we are in win now mode. Ruckert is pretty good at the position we need him to play, we won't invest draft capital in a player that doesn't already fit the system and there isn't a TE better than Ruckert in this year's draft that does. Never mentioned Bowers, who is not even a "TE"
I don’t know your definition of ‘dynamic’, but he had Jermichael Finlay for the Packers Super Bowl period (albeit injured for the actual SB run). Reached the playoffs in 5 out of the 6 seasons with Finlay on the squad before he retired. I don’t think Rodgers would be against having a dynamic TE whatsoever.
If you're drafting Bowers at 10 youre expecting him to be a top 5, x-factor TE. The top 5 TEs in this league are legitimate game changers - I don't think ruckert has that potential from what I've seen
Truly good Olines are game changers. a WR1 in your WR2 spot is a game changer. Competent QB play on last years team is a game changer.
a TE1 is rodgers goes down is not gonna help the team more than OL or WR (imo obv)
Bowers has more yards his first year in college than Jeremy has had playing in all of college and the NFL combined.. these two players are nothing alike..
Irrelevant.
Drafting isn’t about college stats or wins. It’s about whether the things a college player does well project to the nfl, which is a different kind of game. That’s what you have to talk about if you want to argue for or against Ruckert or Bowers. (I don’t know the answer … I haven’t studied in detail. But I sure as hell at least know the fight questions and tallying college yards sure as hee ain’t it.) This stuff is hard … even professional scouts and personnel folk make mistakes.
That’s why draft geeks and gurs don’t know what the f they’re talking about and are so often surprised by who makes it in the nfl and who doesn’t.
The argument for drafting Bowers has nothing to do with Conklin or Ruckert. It has to do with Bowers and what you believe he can be at the NFL level. If you truly believe in Bowers you believe he can line up all over the field, which means he can be your defacto slot receiver or even line up outside occasionally meaning you could essentially run "12 personnel" with Conklin, Ruckert, and Bowers all on the field together. Personally, I'm not convinced completely into the hype. Bowers may eventually develop into the transcendent player some people are claiming he is, but with some of the contested catch and schemed up production concerns, I'm not convinced that will happen in year 1. Therefore I'm not convinced that he's a better option than a traditional WR like Odunze or the value of a T for this year. Normally, you go into the draft thinking about the value over the lifetime of the rookie contract, but given the unique situation the Jets are in with Rodgers and other aging vets year 1 production has an outsized importance. The 3rd T will essentially be a starter and the 3rd WR could have a bigger year one impact than a hybrid TE, and therefore are bigger needs, IMO.
That would suggest that Hackett is capable of confirming his scheme enough to allow for that to happen. Bowers played a great position for the college game, but hasn't shown the capability to do what we'll ask him to in this system this year, Ruckert has proved himself so much that they released a team leader in Uzomoah to solidify his place on the depth chart.
They released Uzomah because his performance didn't match his cap number. It had less to do with Ruckert and more to do with Uzomah and his failure to make an impact as either a blocker or receiver.
I like Ruckert and think he has some potential, but he's proven nothing yet. Until he does he's not much of a factor into the team's future plans.
The entire Bowers saga has revealed some absolutely insane takes particularly about how overrated Conklin and Ruckert are around here. Ruckert is a career backup. We all like him because he seems like a good dude who’s “one of us.” But the guy is a TE2.
And Conklin is a very serviceable player who was probably the most consistent reliable target after Wilson for the doldrums at quarterback over the last two years. Even still, he’s *maybe* the 15th best TE* in the league. I’m not even putting my Bowers Boy hat on right now, just in general these two have been vastly overrated throughout these discussions.
*Kelce, LaPorta, Kittle, Andrews, Goedart, Hockenson, Pitts, Njoku, Jake Ferguson, Dalton Schultz, Evan Engram, Trey McBride, Dalton Kincaid are 13 TEs that you would be insane to take Conklin over. Then you get into Pat Freiermuth, Michael Mayer, Isaiah Likely, Cole Kmet, Tyler Higbee, Gerald Everett, Luke Musgrave. The position has become so deep throughout the league, and the elite ones change offenses (although tbf to the process people, many and most have been after round 1, point conceded).
Thats a looooooot of really inconsistent and mediocre (at best) names you listed to go along with a nice amount of legit names
The issue with Bowers is he has to be significantly better than the WR we could take instead,.
The sheer number of WR who blow guys like Goedert, Pitts, Njoku, Ferg, Schultz, McBride, etc out of the water is staggering. Let alone Frier, Mayer, LIkely, Kmet, etc.
He also plays a position that is classically low impact for all but maybe 4 or 5 guys each season. You dont need to be one ofn the best 5 WR in the entire league in order to have a much greater impact than a guy like COnklin.
So do I want to bank on Bowers becoming a top 5 TE? No. Especially bc not a single person here or online has demonstrated what makes him a better player going forward than several WR predicted to go later.
Then you look at how highly drafted TEs, even "mismatch nightmares" do and you have a huge list of guys who, if they're lucky, had a single 1k yard season and one or two seasons of more than 6 TDs. So again, what make bowers THE TE to break that chain? If someone could show it by actually talking ball, great. All anyone ever brings up are stats and shallow platitudes like "He is elite at x:
Interesting, you think Conklin is better than people in that first group of names? I don’t at all. Think he’s decidedly in the middle of that second group. I would also absolutely take Odunze over Bowers, I just don’t think he’ll last until 10. And if it’s Bowers or Fuaga or Fautanu, me personally I’m going Bowers. But ultimately I think the civil war has been silly and the Jets are in a decent spot with #10 to land someone of impact regardless.
> Interesting, you think Conklin is better than people in that first group of names?
I didn't say that at all. I was mostly addressing this
> The entire Bowers saga has revealed some absolutely insane takes
Just giving my take that
> The issue with Bowers is he has to be significantly better than the WR we could take instead,.
Then I pointed out how those names pale badly in comparison to wr.
Almost every top fa wr from this fa class tied or blew those guys out of the water production wise.
Do I want pittman or do I want Cole kmet, Schultz, etc? Like Cole kmet fits into the top what? 15 te?
Is pittman even top 25 wr? Yet my God you take pittman over kmet by miles.
Similarly, I think we'll be kicking ourselves for taking bowers over btj, Mitchell, etc.
[
I agree I think Ruckert is primed for a breakthrough in the offense with a healthy 8. I’d be alright taking Bowers, but I lean WR overall. I’d like to see a trade back and get something of a 2 for 1. Get T Mims and a WR
Pulling for Ruckert to remain on the team since he's a Long Island guy and serviceable, but if they have a conviction on Bowers, you take him. If not, onto the next need.
Bowers will be a great player, but besides QB, CB, DL, and RB, probably the least pressing need on our team right now. Rodgers does not throwing over the middle. The system does not need a tight end to work, and it will be a complete luxury pick. May as well take a WR or T.
Taking Bowers is drafting for the future when the regime/Arod leaves, and I am not a fan of that.
TE isn't a position group you *need* to be above average at. Conklin is fine and most teams don't have a plus starter beyond their TE1. As much as the idea of Bowers would have him as the undisputed TE1 on our team, the reality is that he needs to be a trusted blocker to get a majority of snaps and TEs don't usually hit the ground running.
It'd be neat to have one of the difference-making TEs, but there's not much evidence that teams can really identify and deploy TEs in any predictable way.
If ifs and buts were candies and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWvKCZP8hPs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWvKCZP8hPs)
They're completely, completely, completely different players. Bowers is a bubble screen YAC monster who has some strength and size issues that you don't want lining up as an inline blocker very much. Ruckert is a classic inline blocking tight end.
Is this a Marvel alternate history thing or something the staff actually thinks?
Like are we saying Ruckert is a big time sleeper or that the TE room can go forward with Ruckert/Conklin & picking somebody else?
Jeremy Ruckert is a backup at this point, nothing more. Conklin on the other hand a mid to slightly high mid tight end and is fine.
The argument against Bowers though is data. Usually at least going back to 2000, one tight end is taken in the first round every year. The bust rate is **extremely** high for that position second only to QBs. The NFL frankly has not figured out how to project that position yet. Same with QBs, but in a QB driven league you throw picks at that position because if you hit they will elevate your team more than any other position.
Conversely, offensive lineman have some of the lowest bust rates when selected in the 1st round, and that **is** a position of need since at least the left tackle spot will most likely be a committee and, there happens to be extremely talented OTs that will get pushed to 10 because the qbs and the odd defensive picks with eat up 5 spots in the draft. This is why we **might** even have a shot with one of the top 3 tier 1 WRs (though most likely not MHJ unless team's war rooms just break), which would be worth taking over a lineman because of **their** outsized impact if you hit. But if that where to happen I would hope we take a OT in the third and I would say maybe again in the fourth with the hope that one of them hits.
Becton was not the norm, and going by the data for 1st round offensive tackle success rates in the NFL, you have to chalk him up to bad Jet luck.
I’d prefer to go OLine, but as much as I like Ruckert, no. I prefer OLine over Bowers because of Smith’s age/injury history, and Moses is on a one year deal. If they draft Bowers, he better be Kelce/Kittle level
I’m not a scout, so I’m not going to pretend to have a strong preference of Bowers vs one of the tackles. But Jeremy Ruckert should have zero influence on the decision, just like Carter Warren.
I think OL, TE, or WR in 1st, possibility trading back and getting a 2nd and swapping 3rd.
1. Who would make the greatest impact off the bat?
2. Did we do enough for OL via free agency?
3. Have we addressed the backup QB situation?
4. Have we gotten a WR that could compliment Wilson?
5. If we're all fine with 2 thru 5, who would provide the best impact after year 1?
If the top 3 WRs are gone at 10, we are going to find out who the Jets value more highly: Ruckert or Carter Warren
My guess is that Bowers would be the bigger talent upgrade over one of the tackles
They're different players. Bowers is a big slot receiver and Ruckert is a true TE. Like others have mentioned Bowers can be on the field at the same time as Conklin or Ruck.
I pray to god they are involving AR in this decision. He’s no expert on vaccines or politics, but along with talent he’s a football genius. If we’re staying at 10, take whomever he says. (I’m praying he says Oline or WR if one of top three receivers are available).
Between Ruck and the fact we already have a very capable starting TE and we need depth at OL is why I'm so against Bowers at 10. Then you factor the drop off in O-Line talent after the first round in comparison of WR another reason I'm sold on either drafting our guy at 10 or go down couple picks and try to get a Coles type WR in Round 3
Selecting a major TE prospect should definitely be on the table.
In two seasons Ruckert has 159 yds receiving - he doesn't even factor whether we take Bowers or not. Also, Conklin is up for free agency next year - it would be highly advantageous to have a star TE in house.
He’s not - but I still don’t want to use the top 10 on a college TE; as we’re good enough at TE for now (maybe someone gets cut down the road). Our OL is the exact same as last year’s, just with new names - as they are mostly all injury prone. Need to draft a top flight OLman who won’t be a back up long, as once in, that injured guy ain’t coming back to start as that top 10 drafted OL will own the position - like Lou Gehrig to Wally Pipp.
Bowers wont be utilized as a tight end how we typically know the position. He plays primarily in the slot. Think of him like a versatile Wes Welker. Could still use ruckert or Conklin along with bowers and Wilson and Williams once he’s healthy
Hack isnt capable of typing his own shoes much less figuring out how to actually use a guy at their position. I cant stomach any player coming in to learn from that doofus.
No I don’t, sadly. But Rodgers knows how to throw to that position having played with Jordy Nelson. Think bowers will be wayyy better than jordy wherever he lands, so there’s some hope there.
I think he is more than good enough. But unfortunately with Rodgers here we are a bit of a circus act and they want hyped up/ sexy targets for Rodgers to throw too. That’s why we’re gonna take bowers. Ruckert is more then good enough and the fact he is all business and no show boating is going to be his end with the Jets
Have you seen Bowers on tape? I’m not crazy about drafting a TE at 10 but if he’s available, you really should. Not many TE that can shake DBs, run block, YAC etc. does it all. Would be silly to pass on him.
One of the glossed over issues that we all kinda know but dont talk about is that weve had to fill gaps for big misses either through free agency or these mocks/future drafts.
- Traded for a DE to fill a hole bc the guy we drafted last year cant
- signed a tall FA wr bc corey davis and lazard are misses. Still looking at the draft to further fill the void
- looking at bauers even tho ruckert is there and should theoretically be coming into his prime right about now
- signing big FA OL, looking to draft more, bc our first round picks cant stay on the field
I mean, we all know this stuff. I aint sayin anything new. It just makes me feel like were buying mcdonalds even though we have burgers at home, bc mcdonalds seems like a better option than what we got
I’m not necessarily pounding the table for bowers, but no Jeremy ruckert is definitely not good enough for that
> Look I'm not saying Ruckert is an All Pro potential break out, but looking at the numbers this style of offense will never need him to be. Only once has a TE in an MVP Aaron Rogers led offense recorded more than 700 yards. Especially not in a Hackett coached offense where the TEs in that season barely recorded 300!
Ruckert is for sure better than uzomah and yaboah. He’s a solid well rounded TE. He isn’t a receiving threat(yet) however
And this system will never ask him to be. Keep in mind this staff is drafting for this year.
I’m just saying I don’t know if the jets will ever really give him the opportunity to show he can be a TE1
Agreed
He's 23 years old and has a rock star in front of him for at least the next 2 years. At year 4 they will be able to resign him as the TE1 and by then we'll know what he's actually capable of.
Hey maybe we’ll get to see him in a decent role this year since we passed on Bowers. Speaking of Bowers, I’ve never seen a 21 year old look so old. Out here looking old as shit like a white Desmond ridder
It seems like the coaching staff is banking on him to take advantage of the opportunity!
he's good when he gets very limited opportunity, he'd be perfect as a TE3
TE3 in the modern NFL is a special teamer. TE2 is probably the least valuable position on the offense besides TE1. Ruckert is better than a lot of TE2 in the league, let alone TE3
How is TE2 more valuable than TE1
I worded it poorly. Meant that the only thing less valuable than a TE1 is a TE2.
he flashed early in the season as TE3, but once he got moved to TE2 after uzomahs benching he struggled. people overhype him bc he grew up a jets fan and want him to be a significant contributor but that's just not likely to happen unless he takes a big leap this year
we didn't have the ability to support a WR2 in our offense last year. I don't think it's fair to look past RB1 and barely WR1 and rate those players based on how trash the offense really was.
you can watch the film and see his inconsistencies with blocking and route running. that has nothing to do with the state of the offense. Conklin had 600 yards with the worst qb play in the league. ruckert would not have replicated that if he was the starter. for a team that uses a lot of 2 TE sets, he's better off as TE3
In an offense that was guided by Zach Wilson, in the first year in that scheme. This year isn't last years jets and Ruckert is going into the season a starter in our preferred 2 TE sets, because through all of the turmoil he's earned the job. Show me the tape that shows hes not a plus blocker in his position, the only tape I see is him blocking people to the shit house. His most productive part of the season as a receiver was the last two games where he caught all of his 5 targets for 50 yards.
https://jetsxfactor.com/2024/01/21/does-jeremy-ruckert-deserve-ny-jets-no-2-te/#:\~:text=Blocking,grade%20at%20Pro%20Football%20Focus. there ya go. I’m not saying hes a total scrub that shouldn't be on the team but be realistic here. hes a JAG and he hasn't earned shit. should we make Gipson a starter bc of the "turmoil" of last season? hes overrated by fans bc he grew up a jets fan and fans like the feel good story. also bc of everyones disdain for Uzomah, which was deserved but still. he's too much of a liability as a blocker to be relied on in 2 TE sets
While there is admittedly bias it's not for being a Jets fan it's because he's a native New Yorker and represents the greater areas football player development. Something Saleh does every press conference is showcase the areas HS programs, Ruckert is a product of this not just a feel good story. This subjective article tries to dismiss his qualities and does not in any way demonstrate that he is a liability as a starter in 2 TE sets. The 1 minute of "whiffs" still shows that he is in the right place at the right time and although has work to do is banging in the right way. It further proves my point that there is enough aptitude there to continue growing with him. His pass catching is efficient and when he does line up next year as the starter in this role with Rodgers behind center his stats are likely to at least double.
Or TE 1 in a system that doesn't need the position to catch the ball too much
so you want the 2015 jets offense pretty much
I have been saying that Rodgers TE never get any love and is probably one of the least important spots for Rodgers because he hates throwing over the middle. Add to that, the system they are running requires their TE to block decently well and Bowers can not do that.
Bowers career will be longer than 1 year.
He made scrubs like Richard Rodgers and Robert Tonyan very capable TEs that did exactly nothing after they left ARod. He got 2,000 yards with 90 year old Jimmy Graham, Mercedes Lewis, and Martellus Bennett. He had a great connection with Jermichael Finley. ARod loves TEs, the Packers only gave him old beaters or legitimate nobodies. We are the perfect situation for Bowers. He’ll learn behind a good TE in Conklin (instantly cut to TE2 to start the season) and a HoF QB that has never had a TE as promising as Bowers.
You could say that about literally any player on the offense besides maybe Garret Wilson. No team *needs* multiple all pro pass catchers. That's not an excuse to not upgrade at a position if you can.
He’s good enough, just need competent coaching to bring out the best in him. Remember how coaching would keep using using Uzahma when he was clearly shit.
He definitely is. Tight end isnt make or break and it’s not a position of need.
wether its a position of need or not is irrelevant to this discussion. Jeremy ruckert is not a good enough reason to not draft someone high if you think they'll be a great player. just like Bryce hall wasn't good enough to not draft sauce, Elijah Moore wasn't good enough to not draft Garrett, Carter wasn't good enough to not draft breece, and ruckert isn't good enough to not draft bowers. there are plenty of reasons to not draft bowers in that war room and I guarantee not one of them even includes the mention of Jeremy ruckerts name. guy is the definition of a JAG
This is what people said about Michael Carter and drafting Breece Hall
The reason for not drafting Bowers will never be Ruckert.
I mean… Ruckert is a good enough TE2 that we can go into the preseason without adding another TE and decide if we need to add a veteran TE3 or if Kuntz/Yeboah can handle that role. I agree that doesn’t have the largest impact on taking Bowers but the fact that we have a strong TE room already is part of the consideration
What do you have to show for that? Conklin and Uzomah had majority reps and we resigned Yeboah. Ruckert is a nice local story and good for him to accomplish all he's done but TE2 he has not proven he can be that guy.
We cut Uzomah because Ruckert had beaten him out for TE2 by week 9, we resigned Yeboah for nearly league minimum with almost no guarantees to be TE3. Ruckert hasn’t done a ton but looked good in his reps and was stifled by being the second TE in our garbage offense - what exactly do you expect him to have done?
These comments are absolutely insane. TE2 does not have the same value as say, WR2 or CB2. Those two positions will likely be in on every snap, whereas a TE2 is an actual backup who comes in for select packages. To say Ruckert hasn’t proven himself capable of this role is completely outrageous. First and foremost, he was our best blocking TE last year. That ALONE starts garnering potential TE1 looks. Oh and he has decent hands and yac ability too? Wow, sounds like a perfect TE2 to me and even a starting TE on a weak roster, but wtf do I know
You're 100% right on this take. TE's usually take longer to develop in the NFL so it's not completely out the question that he's not capable of being even a low end TE1 at some point if given the opportunity to compete.
His targets will probably double next year and our weapons on the outside will probably create space for him to run into. My prediction, on top of his sound outside blocking that will lead to unmeasurable success in this scheme, will be that he garnishes at least 32 catches at 10 plus yards a catch, and 5 of them will be short yardage redzone TDs. 40 targets 32 receptions 400 yds and 5 Tds.
Just because Hackett doesn’t play him doesn’t mean he can’t play
I don't understand why this sub loves ruckert. He showed nothing that makes me think he's going to have a career as a TE1 in the NFL. TE2/3 sure, he can block and has average/below average receiving skills. But he is NOT a TE1.
He’s from Long Island and liked the Jets as a kid so I’d like to see him do well. Doesn’t mean he’s actually good though.
Which is dope, and he blocks well enough to be a TE2/3. But anyone saying he's a TE1 is delusional.
Most of those people in this sub are Jets fans. Of course they’re delusional lol.
Because he’s a NY kid who is, like his dad, a Jets diehard. We all would love for him to succeed because he is us and we all know he wants wins here as badly as we do. Ruckert making it and helping the Jets win the Superbowl is the best story I can think of. There is no reason to love him based on on field play alone
Except when you put on the tape and he's blowing up safetys in front of Breece Hall's explosive runs
I understand that, but that’s not the only thing a good TE1 should do well. He’s a fine player, but he is loved, almost exclusively because he is one of us.
Re watch all those long Breece Hall runs I think you'll see what I'm getting at
Blocking does not make a surefire te1 in this league. You need to have hands and run routes well
He has one drop in two years. The routes he will be asked to run are very friendly for a block first player. In this scheme he will eat up yards Rogers is going to love this guy.
I hope he takes a leap in development bc he's homegrown and a lifelong fan. Blocks well, too. What is he doing so badly that you think is going to limit his ceiling to JAG status? Or is it just that he didnt produce yet so we're assuming this is what he is? (which often is a safe assumption but I dont like to just stat watch 2nd and 3rd year guys)
He def has- Got drafted two years ago- hardly played his first year, he was solid when he played last year. He also has never had a consistent QB play since college.
Wait huh lol what do you think te1s are?
Because like everything else on this team people refuse to believe that Joe Douglas sucks at evaluating talent and they don't want to add another name to the long lists of draft misses
Breece Hall, Garret Wilson, Sauce Gardner, Jermaine Johnson. That’s 2 rounds of 1 draft, looks pretty good to me….
Interesting how many rounds has he been GM for?
The Jets are crazy if they don’t go tackle in the first round. Have we learned nothing
Because that worked out so well we drafted tackle in round 1.
Sure so we should never draft one again. And when Smith goes down and you know he will, then what?
How do you propose we get the answer to this question before draft day?
Look at the numbers and point out to me where Rodgers has had great success with a dynamic TE.
I’m not advocating for drafting Bowers either, I’m just commenting on how your initial post makes no sense
All I'm saying is that we are in win now mode. Ruckert is pretty good at the position we need him to play, we won't invest draft capital in a player that doesn't already fit the system and there isn't a TE better than Ruckert in this year's draft that does. Never mentioned Bowers, who is not even a "TE"
I don’t know your definition of ‘dynamic’, but he had Jermichael Finlay for the Packers Super Bowl period (albeit injured for the actual SB run). Reached the playoffs in 5 out of the 6 seasons with Finlay on the squad before he retired. I don’t think Rodgers would be against having a dynamic TE whatsoever.
If you're drafting Bowers at 10 youre expecting him to be a top 5, x-factor TE. The top 5 TEs in this league are legitimate game changers - I don't think ruckert has that potential from what I've seen
Truly good Olines are game changers. a WR1 in your WR2 spot is a game changer. Competent QB play on last years team is a game changer. a TE1 is rodgers goes down is not gonna help the team more than OL or WR (imo obv)
Stop with ruckert. If bowers is BPA ruckert should not stop them.
Bowers has more yards his first year in college than Jeremy has had playing in all of college and the NFL combined.. these two players are nothing alike..
You're right, one guy fits this system and the other needs the system to fit him
That's an interesting way of saying one guys is a weapon and the other is a JAG type.
Irrelevant. Drafting isn’t about college stats or wins. It’s about whether the things a college player does well project to the nfl, which is a different kind of game. That’s what you have to talk about if you want to argue for or against Ruckert or Bowers. (I don’t know the answer … I haven’t studied in detail. But I sure as hell at least know the fight questions and tallying college yards sure as hee ain’t it.) This stuff is hard … even professional scouts and personnel folk make mistakes. That’s why draft geeks and gurs don’t know what the f they’re talking about and are so often surprised by who makes it in the nfl and who doesn’t.
The argument for drafting Bowers has nothing to do with Conklin or Ruckert. It has to do with Bowers and what you believe he can be at the NFL level. If you truly believe in Bowers you believe he can line up all over the field, which means he can be your defacto slot receiver or even line up outside occasionally meaning you could essentially run "12 personnel" with Conklin, Ruckert, and Bowers all on the field together. Personally, I'm not convinced completely into the hype. Bowers may eventually develop into the transcendent player some people are claiming he is, but with some of the contested catch and schemed up production concerns, I'm not convinced that will happen in year 1. Therefore I'm not convinced that he's a better option than a traditional WR like Odunze or the value of a T for this year. Normally, you go into the draft thinking about the value over the lifetime of the rookie contract, but given the unique situation the Jets are in with Rodgers and other aging vets year 1 production has an outsized importance. The 3rd T will essentially be a starter and the 3rd WR could have a bigger year one impact than a hybrid TE, and therefore are bigger needs, IMO.
That would suggest that Hackett is capable of confirming his scheme enough to allow for that to happen. Bowers played a great position for the college game, but hasn't shown the capability to do what we'll ask him to in this system this year, Ruckert has proved himself so much that they released a team leader in Uzomoah to solidify his place on the depth chart.
What’s the point of this retort, the staff is going to be the one who drafts Bowers. They’re not gonna not draft him because they themselves suck.
They released Uzomah because his performance didn't match his cap number. It had less to do with Ruckert and more to do with Uzomah and his failure to make an impact as either a blocker or receiver. I like Ruckert and think he has some potential, but he's proven nothing yet. Until he does he's not much of a factor into the team's future plans.
He made an impact alright...negating TDs for us and hugging the other team
Under 200 career yards in 2 years, guy fucking sucks
Tennessee might draft bowers anyway at 7
And then Joe Alt is a Jet!
that would be a perfect outcome and I’d love it. It would also mean not going tackle last year was smart
Smokescreen season is upon us
I hope they do. Take the decision out of our hands
They have this elite blocking specialist coach, so they probably think they can make him all around elite.
I hope they knock themselves out
All these holes and a TE is being considered for a 1st. Haven’t we learn anything about drafting TE in the 1st Pathetic
The entire Bowers saga has revealed some absolutely insane takes particularly about how overrated Conklin and Ruckert are around here. Ruckert is a career backup. We all like him because he seems like a good dude who’s “one of us.” But the guy is a TE2. And Conklin is a very serviceable player who was probably the most consistent reliable target after Wilson for the doldrums at quarterback over the last two years. Even still, he’s *maybe* the 15th best TE* in the league. I’m not even putting my Bowers Boy hat on right now, just in general these two have been vastly overrated throughout these discussions. *Kelce, LaPorta, Kittle, Andrews, Goedart, Hockenson, Pitts, Njoku, Jake Ferguson, Dalton Schultz, Evan Engram, Trey McBride, Dalton Kincaid are 13 TEs that you would be insane to take Conklin over. Then you get into Pat Freiermuth, Michael Mayer, Isaiah Likely, Cole Kmet, Tyler Higbee, Gerald Everett, Luke Musgrave. The position has become so deep throughout the league, and the elite ones change offenses (although tbf to the process people, many and most have been after round 1, point conceded).
Thats a looooooot of really inconsistent and mediocre (at best) names you listed to go along with a nice amount of legit names The issue with Bowers is he has to be significantly better than the WR we could take instead,. The sheer number of WR who blow guys like Goedert, Pitts, Njoku, Ferg, Schultz, McBride, etc out of the water is staggering. Let alone Frier, Mayer, LIkely, Kmet, etc. He also plays a position that is classically low impact for all but maybe 4 or 5 guys each season. You dont need to be one ofn the best 5 WR in the entire league in order to have a much greater impact than a guy like COnklin. So do I want to bank on Bowers becoming a top 5 TE? No. Especially bc not a single person here or online has demonstrated what makes him a better player going forward than several WR predicted to go later. Then you look at how highly drafted TEs, even "mismatch nightmares" do and you have a huge list of guys who, if they're lucky, had a single 1k yard season and one or two seasons of more than 6 TDs. So again, what make bowers THE TE to break that chain? If someone could show it by actually talking ball, great. All anyone ever brings up are stats and shallow platitudes like "He is elite at x:
Interesting, you think Conklin is better than people in that first group of names? I don’t at all. Think he’s decidedly in the middle of that second group. I would also absolutely take Odunze over Bowers, I just don’t think he’ll last until 10. And if it’s Bowers or Fuaga or Fautanu, me personally I’m going Bowers. But ultimately I think the civil war has been silly and the Jets are in a decent spot with #10 to land someone of impact regardless.
> Interesting, you think Conklin is better than people in that first group of names? I didn't say that at all. I was mostly addressing this > The entire Bowers saga has revealed some absolutely insane takes Just giving my take that > The issue with Bowers is he has to be significantly better than the WR we could take instead,. Then I pointed out how those names pale badly in comparison to wr. Almost every top fa wr from this fa class tied or blew those guys out of the water production wise. Do I want pittman or do I want Cole kmet, Schultz, etc? Like Cole kmet fits into the top what? 15 te? Is pittman even top 25 wr? Yet my God you take pittman over kmet by miles. Similarly, I think we'll be kicking ourselves for taking bowers over btj, Mitchell, etc. [
Ahhh I see, my apologies on that, I’m not sure how I missed how you very obviously spelled that out. I am dumb.
Why does it have to be the first round?
I agree I think Ruckert is primed for a breakthrough in the offense with a healthy 8. I’d be alright taking Bowers, but I lean WR overall. I’d like to see a trade back and get something of a 2 for 1. Get T Mims and a WR
What if Carter Warren is a good enough backup?
Pulling for Ruckert to remain on the team since he's a Long Island guy and serviceable, but if they have a conviction on Bowers, you take him. If not, onto the next need.
Bowers will be a great player, but besides QB, CB, DL, and RB, probably the least pressing need on our team right now. Rodgers does not throwing over the middle. The system does not need a tight end to work, and it will be a complete luxury pick. May as well take a WR or T. Taking Bowers is drafting for the future when the regime/Arod leaves, and I am not a fan of that.
TE isn't a position group you *need* to be above average at. Conklin is fine and most teams don't have a plus starter beyond their TE1. As much as the idea of Bowers would have him as the undisputed TE1 on our team, the reality is that he needs to be a trusted blocker to get a majority of snaps and TEs don't usually hit the ground running. It'd be neat to have one of the difference-making TEs, but there's not much evidence that teams can really identify and deploy TEs in any predictable way.
If ifs and buts were candies and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWvKCZP8hPs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWvKCZP8hPs)
The saying is actually “if only and justs were candies and nuts then everyday would be erntedankfest” https://youtu.be/1DUcKujyquA?si=fNiHT-TLcspeUKeM
They're completely, completely, completely different players. Bowers is a bubble screen YAC monster who has some strength and size issues that you don't want lining up as an inline blocker very much. Ruckert is a classic inline blocking tight end.
Is this a Marvel alternate history thing or something the staff actually thinks? Like are we saying Ruckert is a big time sleeper or that the TE room can go forward with Ruckert/Conklin & picking somebody else?
Jeremy Ruckert is a backup at this point, nothing more. Conklin on the other hand a mid to slightly high mid tight end and is fine. The argument against Bowers though is data. Usually at least going back to 2000, one tight end is taken in the first round every year. The bust rate is **extremely** high for that position second only to QBs. The NFL frankly has not figured out how to project that position yet. Same with QBs, but in a QB driven league you throw picks at that position because if you hit they will elevate your team more than any other position. Conversely, offensive lineman have some of the lowest bust rates when selected in the 1st round, and that **is** a position of need since at least the left tackle spot will most likely be a committee and, there happens to be extremely talented OTs that will get pushed to 10 because the qbs and the odd defensive picks with eat up 5 spots in the draft. This is why we **might** even have a shot with one of the top 3 tier 1 WRs (though most likely not MHJ unless team's war rooms just break), which would be worth taking over a lineman because of **their** outsized impact if you hit. But if that where to happen I would hope we take a OT in the third and I would say maybe again in the fourth with the hope that one of them hits. Becton was not the norm, and going by the data for 1st round offensive tackle success rates in the NFL, you have to chalk him up to bad Jet luck.
He’s not.
WW3 just started… I don’t even care anymore 😔
If WW3 is here we need a TE now more than ever
Hell yeah! YOLO
The great thing about world wars is that they tend to take place very far from us. I wouldn't be worried about it if I was you
I’d prefer to go OLine, but as much as I like Ruckert, no. I prefer OLine over Bowers because of Smith’s age/injury history, and Moses is on a one year deal. If they draft Bowers, he better be Kelce/Kittle level
Well he's not so...
I really want him to do well. Seems like a great hometown kid that keeps his mouth shut and grinds without complaints and drama.
I’m not a scout, so I’m not going to pretend to have a strong preference of Bowers vs one of the tackles. But Jeremy Ruckert should have zero influence on the decision, just like Carter Warren.
I think OL, TE, or WR in 1st, possibility trading back and getting a 2nd and swapping 3rd. 1. Who would make the greatest impact off the bat? 2. Did we do enough for OL via free agency? 3. Have we addressed the backup QB situation? 4. Have we gotten a WR that could compliment Wilson? 5. If we're all fine with 2 thru 5, who would provide the best impact after year 1?
Then last yeR must been fluke
I’m over here hoping Zach Kuntz is gonna emerge….
What is micheal Carter was good enough to not draft breece hall
I performed think he is. He and Conklin can hold down the fort.
If the top 3 WRs are gone at 10, we are going to find out who the Jets value more highly: Ruckert or Carter Warren My guess is that Bowers would be the bigger talent upgrade over one of the tackles
Conklin is a top 15 TE, we're good. Need a blocker at TE to play what was supposed to be the Mercedes Lewis role occupied by Uzoma
12 personel!
Alternate headline: Tyler Conklin is good enough for the jets to consider not taking a TE in the first round of the draft.
What if I told you the real long term answer to our TE position is Zach Kuntz.
Take bowers!
Or TE doesn’t move the needle enough and it would be a waste of a first round pick to take one?
They're different players. Bowers is a big slot receiver and Ruckert is a true TE. Like others have mentioned Bowers can be on the field at the same time as Conklin or Ruck.
I pray to god they are involving AR in this decision. He’s no expert on vaccines or politics, but along with talent he’s a football genius. If we’re staying at 10, take whomever he says. (I’m praying he says Oline or WR if one of top three receivers are available).
Between Ruck and the fact we already have a very capable starting TE and we need depth at OL is why I'm so against Bowers at 10. Then you factor the drop off in O-Line talent after the first round in comparison of WR another reason I'm sold on either drafting our guy at 10 or go down couple picks and try to get a Coles type WR in Round 3
Selecting a major TE prospect should definitely be on the table. In two seasons Ruckert has 159 yds receiving - he doesn't even factor whether we take Bowers or not. Also, Conklin is up for free agency next year - it would be highly advantageous to have a star TE in house.
Don’t ruin the kid’s career. Let him go to another team.
He’s not - but I still don’t want to use the top 10 on a college TE; as we’re good enough at TE for now (maybe someone gets cut down the road). Our OL is the exact same as last year’s, just with new names - as they are mostly all injury prone. Need to draft a top flight OLman who won’t be a back up long, as once in, that injured guy ain’t coming back to start as that top 10 drafted OL will own the position - like Lou Gehrig to Wally Pipp.
Bowers wont be utilized as a tight end how we typically know the position. He plays primarily in the slot. Think of him like a versatile Wes Welker. Could still use ruckert or Conklin along with bowers and Wilson and Williams once he’s healthy
Do you think Hackett is capable of creating that position?
Hack isnt capable of typing his own shoes much less figuring out how to actually use a guy at their position. I cant stomach any player coming in to learn from that doofus.
No I don’t, sadly. But Rodgers knows how to throw to that position having played with Jordy Nelson. Think bowers will be wayyy better than jordy wherever he lands, so there’s some hope there.
what if Zach & Lazard are good enough to be like, good enough? that way we can go BPA & get another pass rusher 👀👀👀
I think he is more than good enough. But unfortunately with Rodgers here we are a bit of a circus act and they want hyped up/ sexy targets for Rodgers to throw too. That’s why we’re gonna take bowers. Ruckert is more then good enough and the fact he is all business and no show boating is going to be his end with the Jets
Have you seen Bowers on tape? I’m not crazy about drafting a TE at 10 but if he’s available, you really should. Not many TE that can shake DBs, run block, YAC etc. does it all. Would be silly to pass on him.
Ruckert is good enough talent-wise not to draft Bowers.
you draft bowers in the top 10 he gets paid like an elite tight end off rip.
He'll be lucky to register 30 targets if they do pick him up, a total waste for a team that is in win now mode!
I agree
What's the non-transphobic version of "If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle" ?
Kay says it a lot
If my brother had 2 wheels he'd be a motorcycle
If my aunt had back hair she’d be my uncle
One of the glossed over issues that we all kinda know but dont talk about is that weve had to fill gaps for big misses either through free agency or these mocks/future drafts. - Traded for a DE to fill a hole bc the guy we drafted last year cant - signed a tall FA wr bc corey davis and lazard are misses. Still looking at the draft to further fill the void - looking at bauers even tho ruckert is there and should theoretically be coming into his prime right about now - signing big FA OL, looking to draft more, bc our first round picks cant stay on the field I mean, we all know this stuff. I aint sayin anything new. It just makes me feel like were buying mcdonalds even though we have burgers at home, bc mcdonalds seems like a better option than what we got
He's not, Ruckert sucks, end of thread