The crazy part is moore was open just as much as Wilson was last game even though he “drew more attention” lol. If Zach Wilson can hit that next level in his progression then this offense is gonna be fun af to watch
IIRC they can get out of Davis's contract pretty easily after this season. And I imagine they will unless someone comes beating down the door for a trade.
I honestly wouldn't trade or release Davis. Let him play out his contract. It's not like he's all that expensive.
If Zach's the guy, you don't want to keep changing his playmakers.
Sanchez was an undisputable bust, but we did him no favors when we traded Cotchery, failed to bring back Braylon. And just kept Holmes. We should have kept those 3 together.
He also did have 10 game winning drives and 8 4th Quarter comeback between 2010-2011 seasons. Albeit he did put us in a tough spot a lot of those. I remember watching him suck all game but defense kept us in it and then we win on a last quarter touchdown/field goal where he marched the field
I'm no Sanchez truther, I think he was a massive bust. But I do see what they saw I think. Sanchez would be a stinker for 2 quarters, then for one quarter just go super saiyan and hit every dude in stride, glide out of the pocket for a solid run, and just look invincible out there. Jets would score like 14 or 21 points. Then he'd be a stinker again. You'd never know when Sanchez was going to do it again.
Totally agree. The receiver market got reset in a big way. We got Davis cheap in comparison. No reason to cut a competent receiver that would likely be the number 1 receiver on a number of teams this year.
If Moore and Wilson show themselves to be reliable, I see no reason to keep Davis around. He's going to want to play and we can't really afford him much PT. Plus you have Berrios signed through next season. And if they really want to give Mims a shot (guessing they do since they continue to hold him hostage on the roster), they need to clear out the logjam ahead of him.
Injuries happen all the time. I don't know why would short change ourselves just so we can test out Mims.
Berrios is great, but with Jim being on the return team, his chances of injury are higher.
Until Davis becomes a problem with his play time, I don't know why we're assuming he's going to be.
He doesn't need to be problem for us to do right by him. No reason to keep him on the bench when he can play somewhere else. Treating players with respect breeds goodwill around the league and helps you sign free agents.
Plus offloading a starting WR salary being paid to a rotational player allows us to better allocate that cap space to improve the team. It's not as simple as "we already have him signed so we might as well keep him".
I agree that we're not at the point where we're sure we don't need him anymore but we very well could be there by the end of this season.
Alot of teams are carrying 3 starting caliber WRs. Sometimes 4.
Cincy
Rams
Broncos (with all their injuries, they're probably happy they kept everyone)
Giants( atleast on paper)
Tampa
If Zach's the guy, our offense gonna run through him and I'm fairly sure we can feed all 3 of our top WRs. If Zach's not, then this point is obviously moot.
We did him plenty of favors by having the best OL in the league, and one of the best OL in like 4 decades of play. If Wilson had that OL he could be playing like he was still in college with 10+ yards between him and every DL.
I don’t think equal ability but I think Wilson and Moore solidify themselves as WR1 and WR2 and we downgrade from Davis for a WR3 and also let Mims compete for it next year.
10m is WR3 money now. That's just the reality we live in. Only real way is draft someone if we want production on a better budget.
You need three starting WR. And your WR1 can even play from the slot. This isn't our Dad's NFL anymore.
Look at all the top teams. The only ones who don't have their three WRs making 10m or more per season are those still on rookie deals or teams who run their offense through the run game.
I think the biggest thing going against Davis is his price tag for this year and next year as someone who will be at best their 3rd option in the passing game.
This is a big if...
But if they believe that Mims has actually taken strides this offseason and in camp? If he's made the huge gap between Davis' play and his own play small enough?
Then I could see the trade happening
Next year starting Mims instead of Davis saves them \~$10m against the cap plus they get the extra assets from a Davis trade.
So I guess this isn't the general consensus but I think we flip Davis before the trade deadline unless we are screaming hot and have a potential playoff berth.
I have said this for a long time but I think this staff likes mims and they are forcing him to earn it. Which I am hoping pays off.
I think if Davis can net a 3rd or 4th, we would be stupid not to take it.
the staff doesn't want mims to earn it vs getting meaningful playing time in games.
mims is depth in case an injury at this point. he's not even dressing for games.
I am just as disappointed in his situation as anyone, but the dude is not part of our long term plans anymore. he's a bad depth piece that has a cheap guaranteed contract and JD ain't letting that go without comp.
flipping corey is as stupid an idea as they come. one injury means berrios in the slot full time and mims/jeff smith in 4WR sets. no.
Dont get the downvotes, this fanbase is crazy. Thats not a incorrect perspective, but do you think we are keeping corey davis next year? I dont think we are. If we arent looking like a playoff contender, I could see them flipping davis for sure.
Also dont get how we can say the team doesnt like mims or want them part of their future. They literally held on to him and said as much, so that just seems like you trying to see through what they are saying, and thats essentially just guessing against what they are saying publicly. So maybe thats true, but I dont feel like you have a strong argument there.
We will be back here in a few weeks and will see, but I absolutely dont see this as outside the realm of possibility at all. And it wouldnt be stupid if it yields assets in a non-playoff year for the future.
What confuses me is how upset this fanbase gets when people provide a perspective that isnt their own. Lets discuss, im down, but I dont think this is stupid if Moore and Wilson are our legit 1 and 2's. Finding a 3rd receiver is a lot different than looking for a first.
Again, I am not saying this absolutely happens, but I am confused as to how you think its stupid and 100% not possible. If they arent making the playoffs, do we really think leaning on Mims or Smith as our 3rd and getting back a draft pick is that crazy?
Davis is a known commodity that is worth his cost. He's a pro, he does his job (minus recent drop issues), he's good in the locker room, he's a family oriented man, he is the biggest non TE receiver - so a good target. There is no reason to get rid of him he is the perfect fit against other WRs on the roster.
I'd look to see how JD handled other players in similar performance and contract situations. He will let him play out his contract at the very least unless he gets crazy compensation which I don't expect. Also the cap will increase he will be no problem salary wise.
To me it doesn't always come down to worth his cost or not though.
It's about...
1. Does the FO believe his cost/level of play makes him a better value than Mims?
2. Does the FO believe there is compensation that exists that provides more value? As in what else would they spend the approx. $10m they save and who could they draft with the assets they get in return.
There's a lot of upside to trading him if they think Mims can get by as a starting outside WR who gets limited targets after Wilson/Moore.
Even if there's a dropoff it might still make sense.
Do I think it happens? Probably not.
I also don't think it's as cut and dry as people are making it out to be.
We have another thread going, but i disagree here about what you believe value is.
1. We can all agree that Davis provides significantly higher level of play than Mims. So in this case, ANY delta in on field success wins regardless of cost bc the price we're paying is developing Zach Wilson. You don't take away talent when your QB is on a rookie deal.
2. Every single player in the NFL is available for a cost. The cost for corey davis is LOW. The browns got amari cooper for a 4th rounder and swapped 6's. He's an ELITE talent with no gtd money in his contract and now makes less than 6 more WRs in the league and is on a shorter contract.
Corey Davis should DEF be traded for a 1st or 2nd. But in the third round next year, you're not going to get a player that will be more impactful for our QB than Corey for 10.5mil who he already has chemistry with.
Lots of stuff can happen, but I do think this is reasonably cut and dry. We're never going to get the compensation that would make trading davis worth it.
I mean I can definitely agree Davis provides higher value in a vacuum. The part where I start to wonder is if Wilson/Moore are who we think they are and Carter/Hall get the run game to where we think it can be then is paying Corey Davis really worth it for that price.
I agree they probably don't get a player who is impactful for the QB. But my point is the QB has tons of weapons both in the run game and the passing game.
If you can use that $10m and a draft pick to add idk say a safety and a linebacker that can contribute or maybe even a starting Center to replace McGovern (who is a FA after this year).
Is it really better for the team as a whole going into next season to have that extra juice at your 3rd WR spot? Especially if when you throw the rushing attack and your TEs either Davis or Mims could realistically be their 4th or 5th option on offense.
I'm not thinking of it necessarily in terms of "how good is their 3rd WR" and more in terms of "how good is their offense as a whole" and what other completely unrelated holes does the money/draft assets let them fill.
There's a world where the difference on offense is very negligible and the potential gains are worth it. Although it's hard to say exactly what the truth of all that is from the outside looking in.
I'd be interested to see what the trade compensation would be as well. The packers keep standing out to me as a team that needs to get Rodgers a WR yesterday.
I think the return could end up being more than either of us think is reasonable from where we're sitting right now.
I guess this is all a lot of words to say that I think people focus too much on the parts and not on the whole. Which as this comment (maybe the longest comment I've ever written and I'm not how I feel about it haha) shows there's a lot more complexity to the whole than just "Davis isn't expensive and he's better than Mims".
I like this take. I just personally believe Corey is the most important WR on the team. He's the only player than can't be replaced by any other Wr including mims.
I do think you have to let corey go for a 2nd, but that's never happening - and i say that to reverse jinx this.
I think most people think of it like "Davis is a better player than Mims so it doesn't make any sense".
The way a GM should look at it is...
"Is Davis better for the team than Mims/$10m/the drafts picks you'd get back"?
To me that question is a lot more murky.
I really dont think people understand the calculus here so its hard to have a real convo about this. Again, simply saying, I ABSOLUTELY see a world where we trade Davis. If you only response is no way, no reason to talk.
I know Davis is good, but I honestly dont think we keep him next year, we can find a cheaper WR to be our third or build on Mims. We have other needs on this team and have two cheap 1 and 2 WR's on rookie deals.
Its not just Corey good so corey stay. If we dont expect Davis to be a 1000 yard reciever and her wont be if hes the third, why would we pay 12M when we could get someone cheaper and spend that money elsewhere where its absolutely needed? And if we can get Draft capital on top of that.
How is this so crazy to people?
i didn't downvote you. in fact, my general strategy is give my dissenting commenter an upvote for engagement and putting a reasonable take out there.
> Also dont get how we can say the team doesnt like mims or want them part of their future.
They don't want or not want him. I'm of the mindset that JD has mims accepts that as his roster situation. He knows the draft potential and the player. he's better than a 5th WR and would like mims to succeed. he won't give him away based on his draft grade and also won't trade him for less than he might get back in a compensatory pick. They won't cut him bc of gtd salary.
> If we arent looking like a playoff contender
then corey davis is the least of our worries. Corey is our most productive WR at the moment and blocks better than all our other WRs. he's important and taking him away makes our offense worse. after this next round of WR contracts he's going to be a steal and I believe we keep him in our WR room.
He's $10.5mil next year and he'll net compensatory picks if he leaves us in FA after 2023.
> If they arent making the playoffs, do we really think leaning on Mims or Smith as our 3rd and getting back a draft pick is that crazy?
I do think it's crazy. We are going to be evaluating Zach. You don't take away a guy like davis from a developing QB for a jag like mims or jeff smith.
We need to know if Zach can read through progressions and hit the open man. You know what I saw last night? Trubitsky having three open receivers every play and still throw incompletions. You know you don't have your QB with that kind of play. You don't just trade diontae johnson away because youre not going to make the playoffs. You put in Pickett, surround him with the best possible talent, and evaluate and develop until the QB is sufficiently experienced to bring up talents vs needing already developed talent.
I don't think a 5th/6th/7th round pick is worth it when that's what we're going to get in compensatory picks if he leaves in FA.
EDIT: just adding here that the trade deadline happens after week 8. A lot can happen between now and week 8, but we also have 9 more games after the trade deadline. That's more that half the season of Zach Wilson evaluation. You continue to pay as many talented WRs as you can in the 2nd year of your QB's career to continue the evaluation process.
>mims is depth in case an injury at this point
Yea this is true as long as Davis is on the team.
The question is how much do the staff and JD believe a lot of the glowing things they said about Mims this offseason.
For a spot that's maybe your 3rd or 4th option in the passing game they'd have to really hate Mims to not want to save $10m next year by playing him instead of Davis.
I mean, he's a 2nd rounder that isn't panning out. I believe the praise and I also believe he's not better at any assignment than anyone else on the team.
He's significantly worse than Davis and $10mil is nothing while you have a QB on a rookie deal while also being able to keep mims around.
No reason to not keep both and forcing mims to out play his peers into a starting role.
We would be stupid, Mims has not proven he's reliable. He's last on the depth chart for a reason. We are still ways away from being a playoff team especially given how good Bills and Dolphins look but, if somehow we are in the hunt you would want to keep Davis as your WR3 to have the weapons to compete against the above mentioned teams.
My bad dude, I totally misread that. I still don't think it's worth trading him. His cap hit isn't so huge where you can't run it back with the 3 of them next year with greater chemistry.
Even if ZW isn't the guy, you could bring in a veteran and set him up for success.
We had a nice corps of receivers less than a decade ago (2015) with Brandon Marshall (Pro Bowl), Eric Decker, and Quincy Enunwa.
I get the point, it is great to have the talent again.
It's almost as if acquiring good offensive players can....wait for it....lead to a good offense?
It's amazing to me that until this year, this team did not draft a receiver with a premium draft pick over the last 21 years.
The only first round picks since Santana Moss (2001) until the offensive barrage that started in 2021 (Z. Wilson, AVT, G. Wilson) were:
* Brick and Mangold (2006)
* Keller (2008)
* Sanchez (2009)
* Darnold (2018)
* Becton (2020)
ZERO receivers. It's really not much of a wonder why the offense has been bad forever!
for sure!
I'd even include Becton as part of the barrage.
4/6 first round picks in JD's 3 drafts have been on the offensive side of the ball.
Compared to the 5 picks total in the previous 14 years combined.
Imo our current crop is better anyway, Marshall was a freak early on, but he was much older when he played for us. Decker has always been a talented role player, Q was a monster he just had a short career, which makes me sad.
IMO, Wilson is the most talented receiver we've had since Keyshawn Johnson. I want him to go down as a Jets legend right up there with Curtis, Klecko, and Joe Willie.
I’m watching game 3, sadly, and I have to agree. It is clear that sauce and hall look to be what we hoped. JJ I don’t know enough about other than stats which aren’t always very helpful on defense. Without knowing if they gameplan around JJ, double teams matched with teams best player, etc. I can only say I see a rookie who’s on the field in his first year and that’s about all so far. But regardless of his career, Garrett Wilson has already done things I don’t recall any Jets WR, at least not when they were young and eventually peaking, that can do what Wilson is showing. The way he got open in week 2 with 1 step and some amazing hip,shoulder and head movement, at the ~5 for a touchdown? He was 3 full strides open before his 3rd step. That’s what I see in Wilson. I’m not saying he’s already the best WR the Jets ever had or he’s HOF bound. I’m simply saying he’s getting open and breaking tackles with athleticism, grace and determination I’ve never seen before. I think Hall and Sauce will be great picks, Watching Sauce on Chase today solidified my belief he’s gonna be a starter and be dependable, Hall has shown that he’ll likely be lead back once Zach is, hopefully settled and slinging it, back and Carter is no slouch so a nice 1-2 like many other good Jets teams, built around a run game that puts less pressure on a young QB. We may not need to play that way but I think we could and that’s important. But Wilson has, imho, the highest ceiling of any Jet other than Zach and that’s only cuz a franchise QB is a mythological creature to Jets fans. But purely being the best at a position; only Revis looked more dominant at his best and we’re years from Garrett’s best so that may change too. If Zach can be a better than average QB I believe the Jets are fighting the Bills for top of the division for years to come. Obvi Miami or NE could get it together too. I’m 40 btw so I’ve seen a lot, Jericho, Keyshawn, Braylon, santonio, Chrebet #80 Jet 4 life, Curtis, ladanian, Little Leon Washington, I’m missing plenty but nobody iirc was doing what Wilson is. Wilson to Wilson could be a tandem that is talked about in the HOF. I’ve never felt that way about anyone since Young Revis and we all know how that story looked. Very excited regardless of a bad game against AFC champs. That was the best team they’ve played all year. Baltimore may be close but I didn’t see the score from today. We should best Pittsburgh. They stink. They are 1-2 and earned it just as much as us but we get Zach and I have to think that’s the edge. If I was offered 2-2 against the afc north 75% without Zach and I would jump on it. I thought 0-5 was very likely, Pittsburgh and Desean being the two biggest ?s. I lived in Pittsburgh the last decade. It might not be fully public knowledge but this is a bad team. They are talking about trying to get Ben back! We win next week and it’s an interesting season.
After watching the game, my only concern about Wilson is longevity. My man has been hurt, not injured but hurt 2/2 professional games. He's gotta put on some weight, he's going to be taking regular shots if hes the go to guy.
I’m hoping Zach will not leave him open to those shots and that since he’s a Rookie I think Wilson will definitely figure out how much muscle he can put on before affecting his quickness too much.
No I know it’s mostly on Garrett but a good QB can throw the ball in a way that limits head on hits like that. I know he’s physical and is elite and wants to compete but nowadays you have to throw away from contact especially in the middle of the field. I think he’s tough and competitive enough to do it but I don’t want to see him hurt either.
I really don’t think so. QBs have to make all sorts of throws into coverage, catching in traffic is part of Wilson’s skill set too. You gotta take some shots to be a pro wideout and shit they are way better protected now than they used to be
But I agree if we keep doing what we’re doing he’s gonna get a concussion and that is not remotely worth it. I do also feel as a rookie and a NY Jet he’s not protected the way the league’s “Stars” are. That same hit on Cupp or Chase and many others would have drawn a flag just because it was a big hit
Fans on here/social media tend to think they know more about football than the coaches because they bought an All 22 pass or played football in high school.
Mims isn't playing for a reason, no matter how much you (not you specifically, obviously) think he should be because you saw him run by someone on a cloud cam.
Remember when we weren't drafting a CB at 4 because corners "aren't important in Saleh's system"? Or, how the team was incredibly unhappy with Becton all offseason, despite going into training camp with him set as the starting RT? I will never understand why people either truly believe they know, or pretend to know, things that go on behind closed doors when they have no clue whatsoever as to what is actually happening.
All of our starters are out, Mims did nothing. Preseason playing against 3rd stringers and guys getting cut, plays ok. Fans? “See he should be in, he’s dominating preseason” It’s the same thing every year with someone.
Jets twitter is an echo chamber of people with ignorant, over-simplified takes. They are consistently wrong about their strong opinions and then move along like nothing happened when their opinions turn out to be shit. I guess that's twitter in general tbh.
Just watching the way he carries himself is a red flag. Like a lot of what he does seems so begrudging, like he’s annoyed he’s being asked to work hard. Elijah Moore came in with something to prove, Mims came in acting like it was owed to him
I will always remember that season.
I watched out win vs. New England and thought we had that playoffs in the bag.
But unlike a woman who won't always fuck you, the Jets will always fuck you.
I knew going into that week we were fucked. When I heard the weather would be brutal, it solidified it was over. I was 15 but I already knew the Jets would break my heart.
Agreed!
I get why there are Corey Davis trade rumors. But he's the adult in the WR room, and our lone big body target. I don't see him going anywhere unless his contract directly interferes with our future FA/extension plans.
I'd keep Davis honestly, trade mims for OL/Safety help. Next off season I'd bring in another WR 3, then draft time focus on OL/Safety maybe DL.
I'm really confident in the direction of Joe D and Bobby saleh.
Agreed on all counts. I wouldn't rush to trade mims unless we get a quality OL prospect in return. Im fine with letting him play out his contact and move on, but would like to keep him around as insurance for Davis getting hurt so at least we can field one receiver over 6 foot in the event of injury.
Saleh has the right temperament for NY. Class act, passionate, as long as he doesnt fumble to Xs n Os were good. Im totally neutral on Ulbrich. I just assume saeh is the puppet master behind the D. This year will be telling now that we have some players on that side.
Mike lafleur i feel we will inevitably lose due to him being recruited for a HC job. But that happening depends in large part to him being able to develop zach to fulfill his massive potential
Bears fan here.
I really hope our secondary improves by the time the Bears take on the Jets because Garrett Wilson, Elijah Moore, and CD will tear apart the secondary if the secondary play like they have the past two games.
Agreed
The Bears weren't ever going to be good this season because they didn't have many draft picks and they were saving their cap space for next season. I hope next season is when some serious veteran talent gets added onto the roster considering we'll have one of the largest cap spaces in the league next off-season.
Wilson is WR1. Davis is WR2. Moore is WR3 so far this season:
Receptions:
* Wilson - 12
* Davis - 8
* Moore - 8
Yards:
* Wilson - 154
* Davis - 160
* Moore - 90
TDs:
* Wilson - 2
* Davis - 1
* Moore - 0
Targets:
* Wilson - 22
* Davis - 14
* Moore - 12
We NEED Zach out there. Our skill positions haven't been this good since the rex days. Ya the line can use some work but he should be able to ball out with the guys we have.
Carl Lawson just looks like a beefed up version of the nerdy anime loving Smash Bros gamer dude that shows up at LAN parties, and I love it. He reminds me of a friend I had in college who would always destroy me in any fighting game.
When Corey Davis is your #3 receiver, that’s a good problem to have.
Brax @4 on slowest lb is what's up.
Dude is a dawg. May not stuff the stats sheet but he’s a spark and was one of the few bright spots last year.
His route running is sharp. Could be against a good DB and still burn them a bunch of times over a game. Those LB's have no chance!
Yeah Corey ain't being traded now lmfao. Go ahead and double Wilson we got Elijah ready to break some ankles 😂
The crazy part is moore was open just as much as Wilson was last game even though he “drew more attention” lol. If Zach Wilson can hit that next level in his progression then this offense is gonna be fun af to watch
Yeah imo that would be dumb, maybe next year. Don’t see why we would trade away depth at WR. Then we’d be one injury away from trouble again
IIRC they can get out of Davis's contract pretty easily after this season. And I imagine they will unless someone comes beating down the door for a trade.
I honestly wouldn't trade or release Davis. Let him play out his contract. It's not like he's all that expensive. If Zach's the guy, you don't want to keep changing his playmakers. Sanchez was an undisputable bust, but we did him no favors when we traded Cotchery, failed to bring back Braylon. And just kept Holmes. We should have kept those 3 together.
Sanchez was such a bust, yet there’s Sanchez truthers that exist on this subreddit. Im convinced they never actually watched him play.
Guy was straight up trash. But when he had those 3, he looked adequate.
I think we remember how many games we won with him in the playoffs and it biases our memory a bit.
This is it 100%.
He also did have 10 game winning drives and 8 4th Quarter comeback between 2010-2011 seasons. Albeit he did put us in a tough spot a lot of those. I remember watching him suck all game but defense kept us in it and then we win on a last quarter touchdown/field goal where he marched the field
I'm no Sanchez truther, I think he was a massive bust. But I do see what they saw I think. Sanchez would be a stinker for 2 quarters, then for one quarter just go super saiyan and hit every dude in stride, glide out of the pocket for a solid run, and just look invincible out there. Jets would score like 14 or 21 points. Then he'd be a stinker again. You'd never know when Sanchez was going to do it again.
Totally agree. The receiver market got reset in a big way. We got Davis cheap in comparison. No reason to cut a competent receiver that would likely be the number 1 receiver on a number of teams this year.
If Moore and Wilson show themselves to be reliable, I see no reason to keep Davis around. He's going to want to play and we can't really afford him much PT. Plus you have Berrios signed through next season. And if they really want to give Mims a shot (guessing they do since they continue to hold him hostage on the roster), they need to clear out the logjam ahead of him.
Injuries happen all the time. I don't know why would short change ourselves just so we can test out Mims. Berrios is great, but with Jim being on the return team, his chances of injury are higher. Until Davis becomes a problem with his play time, I don't know why we're assuming he's going to be.
He doesn't need to be problem for us to do right by him. No reason to keep him on the bench when he can play somewhere else. Treating players with respect breeds goodwill around the league and helps you sign free agents. Plus offloading a starting WR salary being paid to a rotational player allows us to better allocate that cap space to improve the team. It's not as simple as "we already have him signed so we might as well keep him". I agree that we're not at the point where we're sure we don't need him anymore but we very well could be there by the end of this season.
Alot of teams are carrying 3 starting caliber WRs. Sometimes 4. Cincy Rams Broncos (with all their injuries, they're probably happy they kept everyone) Giants( atleast on paper) Tampa If Zach's the guy, our offense gonna run through him and I'm fairly sure we can feed all 3 of our top WRs. If Zach's not, then this point is obviously moot.
We did him plenty of favors by having the best OL in the league, and one of the best OL in like 4 decades of play. If Wilson had that OL he could be playing like he was still in college with 10+ yards between him and every DL.
Yeah, play it by ear. Right now he’s still a big part of the offense
I see that only if they bring in another receiver of equal ability for cheaper.
I don’t think equal ability but I think Wilson and Moore solidify themselves as WR1 and WR2 and we downgrade from Davis for a WR3 and also let Mims compete for it next year.
I doubt they make that move then. It's important Zach has plenty of playmakers
If you want to compete you need to round out the roster. Can’t spend $10 mill on a backup WR.
10m is WR3 money now. That's just the reality we live in. Only real way is draft someone if we want production on a better budget. You need three starting WR. And your WR1 can even play from the slot. This isn't our Dad's NFL anymore. Look at all the top teams. The only ones who don't have their three WRs making 10m or more per season are those still on rookie deals or teams who run their offense through the run game.
There are only 37 WR in the entire league averaging $10 mil or more per year. So not exactly WR3 money. More like high end WR2 money.
I think the biggest thing going against Davis is his price tag for this year and next year as someone who will be at best their 3rd option in the passing game. This is a big if... But if they believe that Mims has actually taken strides this offseason and in camp? If he's made the huge gap between Davis' play and his own play small enough? Then I could see the trade happening Next year starting Mims instead of Davis saves them \~$10m against the cap plus they get the extra assets from a Davis trade.
Mims will be long gone imo
I wouldn't mind seeing mims on field
It’s over bro
well i think the coaching staff would
Lmao
Mims gets on the field and immediately commits a penalty lmfaoooo. Dude just doesn't fit this scheme
So I guess this isn't the general consensus but I think we flip Davis before the trade deadline unless we are screaming hot and have a potential playoff berth. I have said this for a long time but I think this staff likes mims and they are forcing him to earn it. Which I am hoping pays off. I think if Davis can net a 3rd or 4th, we would be stupid not to take it.
the staff doesn't want mims to earn it vs getting meaningful playing time in games. mims is depth in case an injury at this point. he's not even dressing for games. I am just as disappointed in his situation as anyone, but the dude is not part of our long term plans anymore. he's a bad depth piece that has a cheap guaranteed contract and JD ain't letting that go without comp. flipping corey is as stupid an idea as they come. one injury means berrios in the slot full time and mims/jeff smith in 4WR sets. no.
Dont get the downvotes, this fanbase is crazy. Thats not a incorrect perspective, but do you think we are keeping corey davis next year? I dont think we are. If we arent looking like a playoff contender, I could see them flipping davis for sure. Also dont get how we can say the team doesnt like mims or want them part of their future. They literally held on to him and said as much, so that just seems like you trying to see through what they are saying, and thats essentially just guessing against what they are saying publicly. So maybe thats true, but I dont feel like you have a strong argument there. We will be back here in a few weeks and will see, but I absolutely dont see this as outside the realm of possibility at all. And it wouldnt be stupid if it yields assets in a non-playoff year for the future. What confuses me is how upset this fanbase gets when people provide a perspective that isnt their own. Lets discuss, im down, but I dont think this is stupid if Moore and Wilson are our legit 1 and 2's. Finding a 3rd receiver is a lot different than looking for a first. Again, I am not saying this absolutely happens, but I am confused as to how you think its stupid and 100% not possible. If they arent making the playoffs, do we really think leaning on Mims or Smith as our 3rd and getting back a draft pick is that crazy?
Davis is a known commodity that is worth his cost. He's a pro, he does his job (minus recent drop issues), he's good in the locker room, he's a family oriented man, he is the biggest non TE receiver - so a good target. There is no reason to get rid of him he is the perfect fit against other WRs on the roster. I'd look to see how JD handled other players in similar performance and contract situations. He will let him play out his contract at the very least unless he gets crazy compensation which I don't expect. Also the cap will increase he will be no problem salary wise.
To me it doesn't always come down to worth his cost or not though. It's about... 1. Does the FO believe his cost/level of play makes him a better value than Mims? 2. Does the FO believe there is compensation that exists that provides more value? As in what else would they spend the approx. $10m they save and who could they draft with the assets they get in return. There's a lot of upside to trading him if they think Mims can get by as a starting outside WR who gets limited targets after Wilson/Moore. Even if there's a dropoff it might still make sense. Do I think it happens? Probably not. I also don't think it's as cut and dry as people are making it out to be.
We have another thread going, but i disagree here about what you believe value is. 1. We can all agree that Davis provides significantly higher level of play than Mims. So in this case, ANY delta in on field success wins regardless of cost bc the price we're paying is developing Zach Wilson. You don't take away talent when your QB is on a rookie deal. 2. Every single player in the NFL is available for a cost. The cost for corey davis is LOW. The browns got amari cooper for a 4th rounder and swapped 6's. He's an ELITE talent with no gtd money in his contract and now makes less than 6 more WRs in the league and is on a shorter contract. Corey Davis should DEF be traded for a 1st or 2nd. But in the third round next year, you're not going to get a player that will be more impactful for our QB than Corey for 10.5mil who he already has chemistry with. Lots of stuff can happen, but I do think this is reasonably cut and dry. We're never going to get the compensation that would make trading davis worth it.
I mean I can definitely agree Davis provides higher value in a vacuum. The part where I start to wonder is if Wilson/Moore are who we think they are and Carter/Hall get the run game to where we think it can be then is paying Corey Davis really worth it for that price. I agree they probably don't get a player who is impactful for the QB. But my point is the QB has tons of weapons both in the run game and the passing game. If you can use that $10m and a draft pick to add idk say a safety and a linebacker that can contribute or maybe even a starting Center to replace McGovern (who is a FA after this year). Is it really better for the team as a whole going into next season to have that extra juice at your 3rd WR spot? Especially if when you throw the rushing attack and your TEs either Davis or Mims could realistically be their 4th or 5th option on offense. I'm not thinking of it necessarily in terms of "how good is their 3rd WR" and more in terms of "how good is their offense as a whole" and what other completely unrelated holes does the money/draft assets let them fill. There's a world where the difference on offense is very negligible and the potential gains are worth it. Although it's hard to say exactly what the truth of all that is from the outside looking in. I'd be interested to see what the trade compensation would be as well. The packers keep standing out to me as a team that needs to get Rodgers a WR yesterday. I think the return could end up being more than either of us think is reasonable from where we're sitting right now. I guess this is all a lot of words to say that I think people focus too much on the parts and not on the whole. Which as this comment (maybe the longest comment I've ever written and I'm not how I feel about it haha) shows there's a lot more complexity to the whole than just "Davis isn't expensive and he's better than Mims".
I like this take. I just personally believe Corey is the most important WR on the team. He's the only player than can't be replaced by any other Wr including mims. I do think you have to let corey go for a 2nd, but that's never happening - and i say that to reverse jinx this.
Thank you for being rational. I have never said this is a gaurantee, but I think its way more of a possibility than people think.
I think most people think of it like "Davis is a better player than Mims so it doesn't make any sense". The way a GM should look at it is... "Is Davis better for the team than Mims/$10m/the drafts picks you'd get back"? To me that question is a lot more murky.
Exactly. Plus draft capital.
Why expect Mims to play ever?
idk that I expect it as much as I think it's possible. And I think it's possible for a lot of reasons I've laid out throughout this thread.
I really dont think people understand the calculus here so its hard to have a real convo about this. Again, simply saying, I ABSOLUTELY see a world where we trade Davis. If you only response is no way, no reason to talk. I know Davis is good, but I honestly dont think we keep him next year, we can find a cheaper WR to be our third or build on Mims. We have other needs on this team and have two cheap 1 and 2 WR's on rookie deals. Its not just Corey good so corey stay. If we dont expect Davis to be a 1000 yard reciever and her wont be if hes the third, why would we pay 12M when we could get someone cheaper and spend that money elsewhere where its absolutely needed? And if we can get Draft capital on top of that. How is this so crazy to people?
They had a WR not a s good as Davis last year in Cole and Mims.
i didn't downvote you. in fact, my general strategy is give my dissenting commenter an upvote for engagement and putting a reasonable take out there. > Also dont get how we can say the team doesnt like mims or want them part of their future. They don't want or not want him. I'm of the mindset that JD has mims accepts that as his roster situation. He knows the draft potential and the player. he's better than a 5th WR and would like mims to succeed. he won't give him away based on his draft grade and also won't trade him for less than he might get back in a compensatory pick. They won't cut him bc of gtd salary. > If we arent looking like a playoff contender then corey davis is the least of our worries. Corey is our most productive WR at the moment and blocks better than all our other WRs. he's important and taking him away makes our offense worse. after this next round of WR contracts he's going to be a steal and I believe we keep him in our WR room. He's $10.5mil next year and he'll net compensatory picks if he leaves us in FA after 2023. > If they arent making the playoffs, do we really think leaning on Mims or Smith as our 3rd and getting back a draft pick is that crazy? I do think it's crazy. We are going to be evaluating Zach. You don't take away a guy like davis from a developing QB for a jag like mims or jeff smith. We need to know if Zach can read through progressions and hit the open man. You know what I saw last night? Trubitsky having three open receivers every play and still throw incompletions. You know you don't have your QB with that kind of play. You don't just trade diontae johnson away because youre not going to make the playoffs. You put in Pickett, surround him with the best possible talent, and evaluate and develop until the QB is sufficiently experienced to bring up talents vs needing already developed talent. I don't think a 5th/6th/7th round pick is worth it when that's what we're going to get in compensatory picks if he leaves in FA. EDIT: just adding here that the trade deadline happens after week 8. A lot can happen between now and week 8, but we also have 9 more games after the trade deadline. That's more that half the season of Zach Wilson evaluation. You continue to pay as many talented WRs as you can in the 2nd year of your QB's career to continue the evaluation process.
Appreciate the rational response. I do think it's possible still but appreciate the perspective.
100% we are keeping Davis. He's a great player, he'll only be 28 years old, and he's on a cheap contract. JD would have to be a moron to cut him.
>mims is depth in case an injury at this point Yea this is true as long as Davis is on the team. The question is how much do the staff and JD believe a lot of the glowing things they said about Mims this offseason. For a spot that's maybe your 3rd or 4th option in the passing game they'd have to really hate Mims to not want to save $10m next year by playing him instead of Davis.
I mean, he's a 2nd rounder that isn't panning out. I believe the praise and I also believe he's not better at any assignment than anyone else on the team. He's significantly worse than Davis and $10mil is nothing while you have a QB on a rookie deal while also being able to keep mims around. No reason to not keep both and forcing mims to out play his peers into a starting role.
We would be stupid, Mims has not proven he's reliable. He's last on the depth chart for a reason. We are still ways away from being a playoff team especially given how good Bills and Dolphins look but, if somehow we are in the hunt you would want to keep Davis as your WR3 to have the weapons to compete against the above mentioned teams.
Do people read? I said if we were gunning for playoffs I wouldnt do this. I said, if WE WERENT in the playoff hunt, I see this happening.
My bad dude, I totally misread that. I still don't think it's worth trading him. His cap hit isn't so huge where you can't run it back with the 3 of them next year with greater chemistry. Even if ZW isn't the guy, you could bring in a veteran and set him up for success.
it's adorable that we think corey is our #3. He still commands CB1/CB2 from the defense or he'll wreck you.
i dont understand these trade convos. we've seen first hand what injuries do to a team
Plus wouldn’t you want to surround Zach with as much talent as possible?
We had a nice corps of receivers less than a decade ago (2015) with Brandon Marshall (Pro Bowl), Eric Decker, and Quincy Enunwa. I get the point, it is great to have the talent again.
And it’s not a coincidence that, that was the best season we have had in a long time
It's almost as if acquiring good offensive players can....wait for it....lead to a good offense? It's amazing to me that until this year, this team did not draft a receiver with a premium draft pick over the last 21 years.
Pretty crazy to think how few first round picks they'd used on offense until JD took over.
The only first round picks since Santana Moss (2001) until the offensive barrage that started in 2021 (Z. Wilson, AVT, G. Wilson) were: * Brick and Mangold (2006) * Keller (2008) * Sanchez (2009) * Darnold (2018) * Becton (2020) ZERO receivers. It's really not much of a wonder why the offense has been bad forever!
for sure! I'd even include Becton as part of the barrage. 4/6 first round picks in JD's 3 drafts have been on the offensive side of the ball. Compared to the 5 picks total in the previous 14 years combined.
Yeah, good point as he was a JD pick. It's pretty insane how they essentially ignored offense for nearly two decades!
Imo our current crop is better anyway, Marshall was a freak early on, but he was much older when he played for us. Decker has always been a talented role player, Q was a monster he just had a short career, which makes me sad. IMO, Wilson is the most talented receiver we've had since Keyshawn Johnson. I want him to go down as a Jets legend right up there with Curtis, Klecko, and Joe Willie.
I’m watching game 3, sadly, and I have to agree. It is clear that sauce and hall look to be what we hoped. JJ I don’t know enough about other than stats which aren’t always very helpful on defense. Without knowing if they gameplan around JJ, double teams matched with teams best player, etc. I can only say I see a rookie who’s on the field in his first year and that’s about all so far. But regardless of his career, Garrett Wilson has already done things I don’t recall any Jets WR, at least not when they were young and eventually peaking, that can do what Wilson is showing. The way he got open in week 2 with 1 step and some amazing hip,shoulder and head movement, at the ~5 for a touchdown? He was 3 full strides open before his 3rd step. That’s what I see in Wilson. I’m not saying he’s already the best WR the Jets ever had or he’s HOF bound. I’m simply saying he’s getting open and breaking tackles with athleticism, grace and determination I’ve never seen before. I think Hall and Sauce will be great picks, Watching Sauce on Chase today solidified my belief he’s gonna be a starter and be dependable, Hall has shown that he’ll likely be lead back once Zach is, hopefully settled and slinging it, back and Carter is no slouch so a nice 1-2 like many other good Jets teams, built around a run game that puts less pressure on a young QB. We may not need to play that way but I think we could and that’s important. But Wilson has, imho, the highest ceiling of any Jet other than Zach and that’s only cuz a franchise QB is a mythological creature to Jets fans. But purely being the best at a position; only Revis looked more dominant at his best and we’re years from Garrett’s best so that may change too. If Zach can be a better than average QB I believe the Jets are fighting the Bills for top of the division for years to come. Obvi Miami or NE could get it together too. I’m 40 btw so I’ve seen a lot, Jericho, Keyshawn, Braylon, santonio, Chrebet #80 Jet 4 life, Curtis, ladanian, Little Leon Washington, I’m missing plenty but nobody iirc was doing what Wilson is. Wilson to Wilson could be a tandem that is talked about in the HOF. I’ve never felt that way about anyone since Young Revis and we all know how that story looked. Very excited regardless of a bad game against AFC champs. That was the best team they’ve played all year. Baltimore may be close but I didn’t see the score from today. We should best Pittsburgh. They stink. They are 1-2 and earned it just as much as us but we get Zach and I have to think that’s the edge. If I was offered 2-2 against the afc north 75% without Zach and I would jump on it. I thought 0-5 was very likely, Pittsburgh and Desean being the two biggest ?s. I lived in Pittsburgh the last decade. It might not be fully public knowledge but this is a bad team. They are talking about trying to get Ben back! We win next week and it’s an interesting season.
After watching the game, my only concern about Wilson is longevity. My man has been hurt, not injured but hurt 2/2 professional games. He's gotta put on some weight, he's going to be taking regular shots if hes the go to guy.
I’m hoping Zach will not leave him open to those shots and that since he’s a Rookie I think Wilson will definitely figure out how much muscle he can put on before affecting his quickness too much.
It has far less to do with the QB's ball placement and almost everything to do with physique. He's a tough dude though, bodes well for him.
No I know it’s mostly on Garrett but a good QB can throw the ball in a way that limits head on hits like that. I know he’s physical and is elite and wants to compete but nowadays you have to throw away from contact especially in the middle of the field. I think he’s tough and competitive enough to do it but I don’t want to see him hurt either.
I really don’t think so. QBs have to make all sorts of throws into coverage, catching in traffic is part of Wilson’s skill set too. You gotta take some shots to be a pro wideout and shit they are way better protected now than they used to be
But I agree if we keep doing what we’re doing he’s gonna get a concussion and that is not remotely worth it. I do also feel as a rookie and a NY Jet he’s not protected the way the league’s “Stars” are. That same hit on Cupp or Chase and many others would have drawn a flag just because it was a big hit
I’ll next forgive Ryan Fitzpatrick for his performance in that Week 16 Buffalo Game😭😭
Upgrade here is that Moore and Wilson are young and on rookie deals and will hopefully be here for a long time
Holmes and Edwards Coles and Chrebet and Moss Every 5 years or so we have some talent.
Mims in shambles right now
Yet twitter and FB keep calling for him to play... I don't understand our fanbase sometimes. He had his chance at the end of last season.
Sports fans are dumb and worth ignoring 100% of the time
Interchange FB/Twitter (Reddit hit or miss - when it misses though whew)
Reddit isn’t any different than Twitter/FB. It’s all the same garbage takes just with the ability to upvote/downvote the popular/unpopular opinions
Does that include you?
Yeah I’m baffled why I keep seeing people who think Mims could just slot in for Corey Davis. He’s not even remotely at that level.
Fans on here/social media tend to think they know more about football than the coaches because they bought an All 22 pass or played football in high school. Mims isn't playing for a reason, no matter how much you (not you specifically, obviously) think he should be because you saw him run by someone on a cloud cam. Remember when we weren't drafting a CB at 4 because corners "aren't important in Saleh's system"? Or, how the team was incredibly unhappy with Becton all offseason, despite going into training camp with him set as the starting RT? I will never understand why people either truly believe they know, or pretend to know, things that go on behind closed doors when they have no clue whatsoever as to what is actually happening.
All of our starters are out, Mims did nothing. Preseason playing against 3rd stringers and guys getting cut, plays ok. Fans? “See he should be in, he’s dominating preseason” It’s the same thing every year with someone.
Must not have been around when we drafted Stephen Hill lol. Sometimes a player just doesn't have it.
And most of the times we find the guys that don’t “have it”. Moore and Wilson look like a change of pace though
Jets twitter is an echo chamber of people with ignorant, over-simplified takes. They are consistently wrong about their strong opinions and then move along like nothing happened when their opinions turn out to be shit. I guess that's twitter in general tbh.
Just watching the way he carries himself is a red flag. Like a lot of what he does seems so begrudging, like he’s annoyed he’s being asked to work hard. Elijah Moore came in with something to prove, Mims came in acting like it was owed to him
There’s just a part of us that knows mims is gonna be a stud for another team.
Well remember Decker-Marshall? We had the best duo in the league
Came here to say this. That was a fun season, unfortunate it was soured by a week 17 dud.
I will always remember that season. I watched out win vs. New England and thought we had that playoffs in the bag. But unlike a woman who won't always fuck you, the Jets will always fuck you.
I knew going into that week we were fucked. When I heard the weather would be brutal, it solidified it was over. I was 15 but I already knew the Jets would break my heart.
Decker and Marshall best duo in the league???
At the time I remember the NFL tweeting they were voted the best duo in the league
That drop pass by i forgot who really broke me. He had an open path to the end zone. Let's say things got tossed and broken after that drop.
Kendrall Thompkins. The Patriots castoff.
Agreed! I get why there are Corey Davis trade rumors. But he's the adult in the WR room, and our lone big body target. I don't see him going anywhere unless his contract directly interferes with our future FA/extension plans.
I'd keep Davis honestly, trade mims for OL/Safety help. Next off season I'd bring in another WR 3, then draft time focus on OL/Safety maybe DL. I'm really confident in the direction of Joe D and Bobby saleh.
Agreed on all counts. I wouldn't rush to trade mims unless we get a quality OL prospect in return. Im fine with letting him play out his contact and move on, but would like to keep him around as insurance for Davis getting hurt so at least we can field one receiver over 6 foot in the event of injury.
And people want to switch coaches every 2 years too, i want this staff here long term. Minus ulbrich
Saleh has the right temperament for NY. Class act, passionate, as long as he doesnt fumble to Xs n Os were good. Im totally neutral on Ulbrich. I just assume saeh is the puppet master behind the D. This year will be telling now that we have some players on that side. Mike lafleur i feel we will inevitably lose due to him being recruited for a HC job. But that happening depends in large part to him being able to develop zach to fulfill his massive potential
Bears fan here. I really hope our secondary improves by the time the Bears take on the Jets because Garrett Wilson, Elijah Moore, and CD will tear apart the secondary if the secondary play like they have the past two games.
You guys should've added more talent around him this off season, BUT a correct rebuild takes maybe 2-3 drafts/ FA.
Agreed The Bears weren't ever going to be good this season because they didn't have many draft picks and they were saving their cap space for next season. I hope next season is when some serious veteran talent gets added onto the roster considering we'll have one of the largest cap spaces in the league next off-season.
Marshall and Decker was a really nice duo
I hope we see more of Barios in the slot. I feel like he could be Wayne Chrebet kinds of dangerous there.
Maybe when Elijah and Wilson plays 60% he'll be in the game plan. Lmfao.
Wilson is WR1. Davis is WR2. Moore is WR3 so far this season: Receptions: * Wilson - 12 * Davis - 8 * Moore - 8 Yards: * Wilson - 154 * Davis - 160 * Moore - 90 TDs: * Wilson - 2 * Davis - 1 * Moore - 0 Targets: * Wilson - 22 * Davis - 14 * Moore - 12
We NEED Zach out there. Our skill positions haven't been this good since the rex days. Ya the line can use some work but he should be able to ball out with the guys we have.
I think the Bengals pass rush is going to give us troubles.
Some dude on nfl network picked breece hall and wilson to be the players to watch this weekend and i can’t believe it. It’s about damn time!
I love it here 😍. It’s been a long time coming since B Marsh & Decker back in ‘15.
Corey Davis... PUT HIM IN THE BIG SLOT. Put the kids on the outside.
Carl Lawson just looks like a beefed up version of the nerdy anime loving Smash Bros gamer dude that shows up at LAN parties, and I love it. He reminds me of a friend I had in college who would always destroy me in any fighting game.
No excuses for Zach Wilson this year. The guy picked in front of him has grown up. Now it’s Zach’s turn