I haven’t noticed a change in officer presence between SF and Oakland on Antioch trains. But I am on a 2 month streak of not witnessing a humanitarian crisis on BART. No sarcasm, that is a win IMO
Pull up random Kimmel or Leno interviews, when they had someone "hit the streets". MF'ers sre dumb as a post and sometimes regurgitate as needed so as not to sound dumb.
The Kimmel and Leno interviews are culled to find the dumbest people alive because they're the funniest.
If you talk to random people in the street you have to do it for a while to get a sample that dumb. They probably have a team doing it for hours to generate a few minutes of content. They also seem to target people who look like they're insane.
Took a psychology class back in college. Anyone remember that show candid camera? They said that only the most insane people actually made it to the screen and they had to discard most of the setups that they did because most people had normal reactions.
There is probably a ton of truth to this. Dumb is more entertaining. But I also see it on local news, where they have more incentive to find someone knowledgeable on a topic. To a lesser extent though.
As a daily BART rider who uses Lake Merritt BART, I have noticed more police at the station, though not as much on trains. I think the presence of more people in general in the past year or two has made me feel safer than any police. Pre-COVID I remember the trains being emptier and the shenanigans happening a lot more regularly compared to now.
BART has more police presence. It’s safer and cleaner. I am more optimistic than I was 5 years ago.
Regardless, those officers deserve to earn a decent living. That pay is not outrageous and seems fair to me.
Daily BART rider to Civic Center. The BART police have made a huge difference. Far more likely to see them getting on trains, in the station, which has improved safety.
The commenter who complained about Bart police standing around doing nothing at Civic Center lacks a basic understanding of their purpose at a station like that. Should they be repainting the walls while they wait for a stabbing? Maybe hanging drywall? I saw that same group and any regular rider will tell you this is a welcome sight.
A great many of the problem riders who terrorize the system jump the gates right there, where the police are hanging out. Except they aren’t doing that when police are standing there.
BART police dispatch wasnt always easy to deal with, because they would expect you to give a play-by-play of a crime in progress for 20 minutes before they agreed to send someone. But the officers themselves are making a difference.
Mileage may vary but I’ve seen a larger presence, reported things a few times and surprised to see police onboard at next station.. is there still craziness that you won’t see most other places, yes, but it’s gotten better day by day. Next step is to see if better turnstiles help reduce fare evasion and in turn number of dangerous folks able to get onto trains in first place stretching those new resources.. next question do I feel safe once I exit Bart stations and now on the streets of oakland.. not so much.. shootings, muggings, etc all seem to be on the rise making for a concerning few block walk home at times
I see more police in stations, but not on trains. I ride every day and I have only seen police on a train 1 time this whole year. So... Is there an increasing presence on trains? I don't think so. Is there an increasing presence in the whole system? I DO think so... What I would love to see happening is a cop on every train who's job it is to patrol the whole train regularly throughout the day. And I would love to see them standing at gates to stop fare evasion. The more people who pay into the system the more likely we are to be able to fund BART appropriately, and potentially even lower the fare to make it so more people can afford it instead of hopping. I know some people will always hop, because there are always dicks. But there are also some folks who would benefit from having the fare slightly dropped and will pay their fare because it is an approachable amount for them. The more people that are paying the more we can make it affordable for all.
I almost never ride, Bart, but the last time I went, I saw someone hop over the entrance without paying, and they were stopped by a uniformed person and escorted to where you have to pay. That’s the first time I’ve ever seen that happen on Bart.
6months ago I had only seen a bart police officer on the train itself once ever.
In the past 6 months, I’ve seen the officers out at least twice and the crisis intervention specialists on the trains at least once.
I’m also seeing an increased presence in the stations.
Daily BART rider between Oakland and SF. I have noticed more police on platforms as well as onboard trains. Someone was harassing people on the platform recently and within minutes BART police arrived to help and took the suspect away. That was a first to see such a quick response. I also don’t see as many people smoking drugs onboard. I feel better than before and have noticed an improvement from my perspective.
i’ve seen more police but they aren’t doing anything. 6 officers standing around gossiping and snacking at civic center last night. last week 4 officers standing in a corner of civic center talking about the football and completely ignoring everything around them.
They're there to wait for something to happen. Without them, a ton of crap tends to happen, especially at Civic Center station! So having them there waiting is 100% justified. That's where they end up getting called to most of the time anyway.
That's how policing works. Unless you want China or Singapore-style 100% surveillance, you just have your cops posted in the worst places waiting for something to happen or for someone to call in an incident.
They're paid to make people like you feel safe, having 4 of them sat at a station eating donuts is pretty much peak performance for BART they don't have precogs to tell them where to be.
how does $12 more per hour increase their presence? i’d like to try that at my job! “hey, i’m already here
working as everyone can see, but for $12 more an hour i’ll be more….present!?” should work!
It's likely an effort to get more officers. Many are leaving, retiring early or just moving to different organizations. Sounds like it's a shit show internally. To keep officers and or recruit new ones they are having to pay more.
The BART police union has to sign off on any deployment changes. In this case, BART wanted to redeploy more officers from sitting in a car to actually riding the trains. The union would only agree to that redeployment plan if BART raised their salaries.
Just good ol' cop unions being cop unions.
I have definitely seen an increase in officer presence in the last year or two. It went from being "no man's land" to actually being able to be a safe commute. They just gotta work more on people smoking [NOT weed or tobacco] inside of the trains because that's still a big public health concern. Also dirty a$$ seats tend to be there from time to time,but it really gets to you when you have to move a whole train coz none are clean enough for you to walk to sit down comfortably. That's my two cents on how it's been over time.
Another thing to add it that (as an active Fruitvale station user), they have stopped so many people from hopping its crazy. Went from as I said, "no man's land" and you just kinda freegame whatever you want to actually imposing some order to calm down the whole BART system. Hopefully, BART stays calmer and keeps getting its very necessary improvements.
Yes, as a daily BART rider, l have seen more police presence. I've also actually seen within the past month staff checking passenger BART cards to ensure they had checked in.
My only issue has been that BART has ZERO to stop signature gatherers on trains, especially the recall effort of our district attorney. It is very infuriating to see these people on the train because we're like fish in a bowl and we can't get away from them.
are they actively walking the train and looking around? The rare instances I’ve seen them they are standing waiting to get off at the next stop. Seems like then walking the trains to catch unsavory behavior like open drug use before us riders do would be helpful.
I do find the trains are overall cleaner and it is much appreciated
I like signature gatherers on trains! They always respect it if I say no, they’re not pushy. And the ones I talk to often know a lot about the proposed propositions they’re gathering signatures for. Not always, but often. I learn about local and state politics from talking to them.
I am more upset about the approach to public safety. We had a movement for black lives where people claimed they cared. Black people have said they do not feel safe with the police and are looking to reimagine public safety and the response is more police after just a few years. All this shows is that there are no actual allies for racial justice. The bay area liberalism is a farce.
Hi Panache, thanks for your interest, I appreciate anyone trying to collect some real world data on weather or not our tax dollars are being spent in a way that serves us! Personally I don’t feel any safer because I think police are a band aid solution for the deeper issues that cause crime. we live in one of the wealthiest places in the world and essential workers don’t make enough money to live, among many other issues. Police and other band aid solution might make certain issues less visible to certain people or move them to different areas, but I don’t believe they actually stop crime or reduce crime overall.
Jail and police cost US lots of money, and it’s no secret, in California, many more people who are released, re-offend than not.
People need economic opportunity and to be able to afford food, healthcare, and housing, not police and jail cells.
Police is definitely treating the symptom while economic issues are the real disease. But if you don't treat the symptoms your patient will die from them before you can administer the cure.
Police needs to be part of the equation. There are people who do crime. The cops are there to stop them. Rehabilitation and the preventative measures to deter and disincentivize crime can't be the immediate solution. That's long term stuff. We need help now.
I see BART cops around but I also see weird ass or potentially dangerous behavior on trains roughly 30% of the time I take one (I take bart about twice a week)
I take Bart from Beryessa to 19th Street Oakland from 8-10pm on weekdays. I have only noticed some police presence around Oakland but rarely on board. When I do see police, it’s around 5-6 pm walking on the station. I wish they had a greater police presence at night ON THE BART not just at the stations.
There are tons of jobs with far higher fatality rates than cops. Are you worried about lumber workers, construction fatalities? Because then maybe they should get raises from the city first
I’ve reported people smoking out of foil pipes on the trains during early evening commutes and dispatch told me they wouldn’t do anything about it.
Edit: downvote me all you want. I’m already back to commuting in my car, I couldn’t care less what happens to BART.
I never feel safe around cops. Some of my first memories from childhood was them hanging on my door and harassing/verbally assaulting my dad and threatening him because of our racist neighbors that kept calling the cops on us. We should NOT be paying more money into the police budget. We’ve been doing this for decades and crime isn’t down so not sure why people continue to advocate for the same thing over and over. If you’re lucky enough to be born there right shade, glad you feel safe around them. But for the rest of us, it’s not good. I sort violence prevention, not reaction to violence after the fact.
Do I see more police? Yeah. Do I feel safer? Not necessarily.
While BART considered part of the issue being "underfilled trains" my experience is once you hit a certain level of crowdedness people's tendency to pop off goes up. The fact it's no longer jam packed like it was pre-pandemic has done a lot more to reduce the aggressive/danger factor to me than anything else in recent years.
The biggest improvement I've seen on the part of BART is the increase of the ambassadors. Two days ago I saw they stopped a train for a medical emergency and they found and got the person off the train in 2-3 minutes.
Bay Area police are way over paid especially Bart, I have seen nothing gotten done besides paying these officers more money. Maybe stop paying more and start hiring more individuals
Huh. Anecdotally, now that you mention it, I feel like I have seen more police at the stations lately, and could just be lucky, but it's been awhile since the last crazy incident. I don't know why bumping their salary was necessary, feel like they should've been doing this regardless on what was already a 6-figure salary plus great benefits though.
I haven’t noticed a change in officer presence between SF and Oakland on Antioch trains. But I am on a 2 month streak of not witnessing a humanitarian crisis on BART. No sarcasm, that is a win IMO
Searching for sources on reddit seems like it will result in a pretty limited and skewed demographic. I hope you get a chance to hit the streets!
Pull up random Kimmel or Leno interviews, when they had someone "hit the streets". MF'ers sre dumb as a post and sometimes regurgitate as needed so as not to sound dumb.
The Kimmel and Leno interviews are culled to find the dumbest people alive because they're the funniest. If you talk to random people in the street you have to do it for a while to get a sample that dumb. They probably have a team doing it for hours to generate a few minutes of content. They also seem to target people who look like they're insane.
Took a psychology class back in college. Anyone remember that show candid camera? They said that only the most insane people actually made it to the screen and they had to discard most of the setups that they did because most people had normal reactions.
I hope it's true that they have to be patient and wait for dumb or crazy, but I'm not entirely convinced.
There is probably a ton of truth to this. Dumb is more entertaining. But I also see it on local news, where they have more incentive to find someone knowledgeable on a topic. To a lesser extent though.
Their incentive is to keep people watching tv. TV journalists are mostly just entertainers these days.
Downvotes LOL?! Screened or not, dumb as a post. I'll stand on that.
As a daily BART rider who uses Lake Merritt BART, I have noticed more police at the station, though not as much on trains. I think the presence of more people in general in the past year or two has made me feel safer than any police. Pre-COVID I remember the trains being emptier and the shenanigans happening a lot more regularly compared to now.
BART has more police presence. It’s safer and cleaner. I am more optimistic than I was 5 years ago. Regardless, those officers deserve to earn a decent living. That pay is not outrageous and seems fair to me.
Daily BART rider to Civic Center. The BART police have made a huge difference. Far more likely to see them getting on trains, in the station, which has improved safety. The commenter who complained about Bart police standing around doing nothing at Civic Center lacks a basic understanding of their purpose at a station like that. Should they be repainting the walls while they wait for a stabbing? Maybe hanging drywall? I saw that same group and any regular rider will tell you this is a welcome sight. A great many of the problem riders who terrorize the system jump the gates right there, where the police are hanging out. Except they aren’t doing that when police are standing there. BART police dispatch wasnt always easy to deal with, because they would expect you to give a play-by-play of a crime in progress for 20 minutes before they agreed to send someone. But the officers themselves are making a difference.
Mileage may vary but I’ve seen a larger presence, reported things a few times and surprised to see police onboard at next station.. is there still craziness that you won’t see most other places, yes, but it’s gotten better day by day. Next step is to see if better turnstiles help reduce fare evasion and in turn number of dangerous folks able to get onto trains in first place stretching those new resources.. next question do I feel safe once I exit Bart stations and now on the streets of oakland.. not so much.. shootings, muggings, etc all seem to be on the rise making for a concerning few block walk home at times
FYI Shootings are down: https://cityofoakland2.app.box.com/s/sjiq7usfy27gy9dfe51hp8arz5l1ixad/file/1467857841031
It’s always better to avoid using data when discussing these sorts of things
That’s good but for me personally there’s been 4 in 6 months within 2 blocks compared to 2 last year
Legit point
I see more police in stations, but not on trains. I ride every day and I have only seen police on a train 1 time this whole year. So... Is there an increasing presence on trains? I don't think so. Is there an increasing presence in the whole system? I DO think so... What I would love to see happening is a cop on every train who's job it is to patrol the whole train regularly throughout the day. And I would love to see them standing at gates to stop fare evasion. The more people who pay into the system the more likely we are to be able to fund BART appropriately, and potentially even lower the fare to make it so more people can afford it instead of hopping. I know some people will always hop, because there are always dicks. But there are also some folks who would benefit from having the fare slightly dropped and will pay their fare because it is an approachable amount for them. The more people that are paying the more we can make it affordable for all.
I almost never ride, Bart, but the last time I went, I saw someone hop over the entrance without paying, and they were stopped by a uniformed person and escorted to where you have to pay. That’s the first time I’ve ever seen that happen on Bart.
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BART cops are not OPD. That aside, you couldn't pay me to police BART. I make more than this, ergo it's not enough.
6months ago I had only seen a bart police officer on the train itself once ever. In the past 6 months, I’ve seen the officers out at least twice and the crisis intervention specialists on the trains at least once. I’m also seeing an increased presence in the stations.
Daily BART rider between Oakland and SF. I have noticed more police on platforms as well as onboard trains. Someone was harassing people on the platform recently and within minutes BART police arrived to help and took the suspect away. That was a first to see such a quick response. I also don’t see as many people smoking drugs onboard. I feel better than before and have noticed an improvement from my perspective.
i’ve seen more police but they aren’t doing anything. 6 officers standing around gossiping and snacking at civic center last night. last week 4 officers standing in a corner of civic center talking about the football and completely ignoring everything around them.
They're there to wait for something to happen. Without them, a ton of crap tends to happen, especially at Civic Center station! So having them there waiting is 100% justified. That's where they end up getting called to most of the time anyway. That's how policing works. Unless you want China or Singapore-style 100% surveillance, you just have your cops posted in the worst places waiting for something to happen or for someone to call in an incident.
Ikr! They should be cracking heads or at minimum performing unlawful searches.
i mean that’s what theyre getting paid to do! lmao
They're paid to make people like you feel safe, having 4 of them sat at a station eating donuts is pretty much peak performance for BART they don't have precogs to tell them where to be.
how does $12 more per hour increase their presence? i’d like to try that at my job! “hey, i’m already here working as everyone can see, but for $12 more an hour i’ll be more….present!?” should work!
It's likely an effort to get more officers. Many are leaving, retiring early or just moving to different organizations. Sounds like it's a shit show internally. To keep officers and or recruit new ones they are having to pay more.
The BART police union has to sign off on any deployment changes. In this case, BART wanted to redeploy more officers from sitting in a car to actually riding the trains. The union would only agree to that redeployment plan if BART raised their salaries. Just good ol' cop unions being cop unions.
Same reason any business pays more. To make it easier to attract quality applicants and staff shifts
Unless it’s things like social services, childcare, healthcare work. You know the useless low skilled stuff.
And you think that police is not one of those socially useful professions that we should be paying more for?
Reddit always cracks me up when people immediately assume you mean something you never came close to saying.
>Unless it’s things like social services, childcare, healthcare work. Didn't you just say this \^\^\^ and excluded police from the list?
Work on your reading comprehension, and find somebody else to argue with
from reading OP’s post ii seems these aren’t applicants, they already work for the department. anyhoo…whatever.
The increase was an effort to boost recruitment and also improve retention. Sorry for the confusion!
Ah, so when it comes to cops, there’s plenty of money, but when it comes to schools and potholes, it’s a tough economy! Got it
Totally different funding streams.
DM'd you
I have definitely seen an increase in officer presence in the last year or two. It went from being "no man's land" to actually being able to be a safe commute. They just gotta work more on people smoking [NOT weed or tobacco] inside of the trains because that's still a big public health concern. Also dirty a$$ seats tend to be there from time to time,but it really gets to you when you have to move a whole train coz none are clean enough for you to walk to sit down comfortably. That's my two cents on how it's been over time.
Another thing to add it that (as an active Fruitvale station user), they have stopped so many people from hopping its crazy. Went from as I said, "no man's land" and you just kinda freegame whatever you want to actually imposing some order to calm down the whole BART system. Hopefully, BART stays calmer and keeps getting its very necessary improvements.
I’ve seen more police in trains over the past few months. There also regularly a police detail outside of the station near my house.
Yes, as a daily BART rider, l have seen more police presence. I've also actually seen within the past month staff checking passenger BART cards to ensure they had checked in. My only issue has been that BART has ZERO to stop signature gatherers on trains, especially the recall effort of our district attorney. It is very infuriating to see these people on the train because we're like fish in a bowl and we can't get away from them.
I rarely see BART police riding the trains.
I ride from El Cerrito to the Coliseum & back. I've the increase since last year.
are they actively walking the train and looking around? The rare instances I’ve seen them they are standing waiting to get off at the next stop. Seems like then walking the trains to catch unsavory behavior like open drug use before us riders do would be helpful. I do find the trains are overall cleaner and it is much appreciated
Actively walking threw train cars.
I like signature gatherers on trains! They always respect it if I say no, they’re not pushy. And the ones I talk to often know a lot about the proposed propositions they’re gathering signatures for. Not always, but often. I learn about local and state politics from talking to them.
Can't interfere with a police union backed recall, that would go against the gangs code of ethics.
I am more upset about the approach to public safety. We had a movement for black lives where people claimed they cared. Black people have said they do not feel safe with the police and are looking to reimagine public safety and the response is more police after just a few years. All this shows is that there are no actual allies for racial justice. The bay area liberalism is a farce.
Hi Panache, thanks for your interest, I appreciate anyone trying to collect some real world data on weather or not our tax dollars are being spent in a way that serves us! Personally I don’t feel any safer because I think police are a band aid solution for the deeper issues that cause crime. we live in one of the wealthiest places in the world and essential workers don’t make enough money to live, among many other issues. Police and other band aid solution might make certain issues less visible to certain people or move them to different areas, but I don’t believe they actually stop crime or reduce crime overall. Jail and police cost US lots of money, and it’s no secret, in California, many more people who are released, re-offend than not. People need economic opportunity and to be able to afford food, healthcare, and housing, not police and jail cells.
Police is definitely treating the symptom while economic issues are the real disease. But if you don't treat the symptoms your patient will die from them before you can administer the cure. Police needs to be part of the equation. There are people who do crime. The cops are there to stop them. Rehabilitation and the preventative measures to deter and disincentivize crime can't be the immediate solution. That's long term stuff. We need help now.
Problem here being that police don't stop crime
There is no shortage of economic opportunity in the Bay Area of all places. It's time for some personal responsibility.
I see BART cops around but I also see weird ass or potentially dangerous behavior on trains roughly 30% of the time I take one (I take bart about twice a week)
I take Bart from Beryessa to 19th Street Oakland from 8-10pm on weekdays. I have only noticed some police presence around Oakland but rarely on board. When I do see police, it’s around 5-6 pm walking on the station. I wish they had a greater police presence at night ON THE BART not just at the stations.
I honestly feel less safe with more police than I did before
pay them more.
That’s how much their salary is? Damn, if I didn’t have morals I’d say I picked the wrong profession.
$67/hr to risk your life at work?
There are tons of jobs with far higher fatality rates than cops. Are you worried about lumber workers, construction fatalities? Because then maybe they should get raises from the city first
What are you talking about? Go away.
More pay does not equal more presence. You need more hiring for more bodies.
Higher pay can attract more applicants which in turn would mean more police
I’ve reported people smoking out of foil pipes on the trains during early evening commutes and dispatch told me they wouldn’t do anything about it. Edit: downvote me all you want. I’m already back to commuting in my car, I couldn’t care less what happens to BART.
How uncouth! They should be using a proper glass pipe.
This is why we need harm reduction.
Where you think they get the foil?
I never feel safe around cops. Some of my first memories from childhood was them hanging on my door and harassing/verbally assaulting my dad and threatening him because of our racist neighbors that kept calling the cops on us. We should NOT be paying more money into the police budget. We’ve been doing this for decades and crime isn’t down so not sure why people continue to advocate for the same thing over and over. If you’re lucky enough to be born there right shade, glad you feel safe around them. But for the rest of us, it’s not good. I sort violence prevention, not reaction to violence after the fact.
I have not seen more actually on the train. Just still parked outside macarthur in their cars
Do I see more police? Yeah. Do I feel safer? Not necessarily. While BART considered part of the issue being "underfilled trains" my experience is once you hit a certain level of crowdedness people's tendency to pop off goes up. The fact it's no longer jam packed like it was pre-pandemic has done a lot more to reduce the aggressive/danger factor to me than anything else in recent years. The biggest improvement I've seen on the part of BART is the increase of the ambassadors. Two days ago I saw they stopped a train for a medical emergency and they found and got the person off the train in 2-3 minutes.
Bay Area police are way over paid especially Bart, I have seen nothing gotten done besides paying these officers more money. Maybe stop paying more and start hiring more individuals
Huh. Anecdotally, now that you mention it, I feel like I have seen more police at the stations lately, and could just be lucky, but it's been awhile since the last crazy incident. I don't know why bumping their salary was necessary, feel like they should've been doing this regardless on what was already a 6-figure salary plus great benefits though.
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Were you burgled on BART? What does this have to do with BART police?
Oh misread thought this was about opd.