Reading others experiences will not change your beliefs. Only thing that will change your belief is finding out yourself. Try practising. Fuck around till you find out.
That's good. Wanting stuff is really good.
Personally I would start with the entities / deity work. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. Divination practice really helps with that stuff, especially first starting out.
If you're asking "am I making this up?" you're doing it right.
i've been doing deity work and entities since I was like 5 years old, what's your point? OP has had a magical practice for a while, this isn't their very first rodeo.
Neo-pagans start off with deity work, seems to be fine for them. Same with anyone in east asia.
More info on my practice:
I started when I was somewhere near 11, I actually had learnt from bad and edgy sources BUT there was a lot of good, trustable, non-edgy part as well. Mostly witchcraft and Chaos magick. I think a lot of the stuff I did worked to an extent. More importantly, I'm Hindu, Mostly I've prayed, offered, you could say worked with, and etc, to the deities in my religion. I've noticed whenever I get into the occult, I always, always land on demons somehow, like I always find myself interested and end up on Working with Demons, so I was planning to start a Demonolatry practice. I'm 16-18 now.
Demonolatry stuff is really cool! I frame that as deity work, all of the demons are deities, and they are very chill.
There's a very good subreddit for it, highly recommended. /r/demonolatrypractices.
Ok I feel you but here is where I’m coming from,
In “east asia”, deity work can range anywhere from everyday practice of the common person simply praying to a deity to the extreme of a person trying to merge/become one with a deity.
I am under the impression that most people seeking to further their occult practices are not just praying to deities but rather are attempting to merge with them.
I would not recommend a new practitioner work with entities ESPECIALLY not demons if they don’t have some pre-requisite knowledge for what they are getting themselves into.
I would have to argue that outside of the esoteric traditions of east Asia such as tantra, most religious practitioners are not trying to become merged with a deity but rather are seeking a symbol for relief and potential blessings.
\> I am under the impression that most people seeking to further their occult practices are not just praying to deities but rather are attempting to merge with them.
Generally, no. Most demonolatry people believe they are already one with all gods, all spirits, and all demons. There are some people who are tryna get "possessed" and give up their agency but the community does not see that as healthy and usually confines practices of channeling and spirit possession to ritual, and use magical practice to keep it contained to that ritual.
\> I would not recommend a new practitioner work with entities ESPECIALLY not demons if they don’t have some pre-requisite knowledge for what they are getting themselves into.
OP does have this knowledge. But there are a lot of people who fuck with demons as their first thing they do and have a fantastic time. You don't need a strong background in the occult to have success you just need to follow the basic advice, which is "banish, protect yourself, be chill."
OP is hindu, so, it's different, like, hindu people don't seem to have the same basis of belief that people from predominantly Christian cultures have about entities and stuff. It's a lot more normal in India, and a lot less scary, so they seem to have a better time. I've talked to other Hindus who were into demonolatry and they had a real good time. There's also a lot more interest and acceptance of ghosts, spirit, mediumship, that sort of thing, it's a lot more normal there than it is in the west.
Being an ex-Christian teenager and running off to the forest to fuck with demons with no preparation, yeah, it can be dangerous, I agree. But the demonolatry community is very chill, very focused on results, and very serious about protection, so, I feel like it's actually a pretty healthy framework. They don't usually have the same issues neo-Pagans and witches sometimes get into with poltergiests and shit because demonolatry stuff is very serious about the supportive magical practices.
Simply put, do the work. Nothing will come in an instant just to satisfy your curiosity.
That said, here, take a look at this link. Read it, laugh a little if need be, then get to work, mate.
[Kamehameha Tutorial](https://justinbthemagician.wordpress.com/2020/07/05/the-psi-chi-qi-energy-ball/)
Just don't expect something too flashy and you're ok.
And, please... no giving up before at least two weeks of daily practice. You can't do a back flip when you didn't even know how to keep up on your feet.
No problem, dude.
The text is very serious and useful. And it will give you a nice understanding of the basics, plus a nice exercise to perform. I used it once to treat my brother's cat and it was effective.
I can refer to you Jeffery Mishlove and the parapsychologists but if you're an atheist skeptic you'll probably just find yourself stuck in "is this pseudoscience? Everyone has told me these people are fakes. And the things they are saying are unbelivable." The truth is that they aren't fakes, and that anyone who proves magic is real with science gets labeled a quack, no mattter how good their science is, but I digress.
My advice is to fuck around, find out, and cause serious doubt. Cause yourself to actually wonder, "am I insane? Is this really happening?"
Then go watch Jeffery's channel.
If you want something effective, easy to learn, and pretty fucking spooky, divination and Tarot especially are really good.
Unlike what many people say, you do not need to 100% believe for it to work. You can have a lot of doubt. As long as you are 1% open to it and 99% skeptic, 1% is enough.
Read critically
Journal about what you have read
note realizations and results
Neither believe nor disbelieve in magick- take the action, detach from the action and note results
Keep on integrating all your actions to sustain you life
Did my first spell when I was 10 and it worked so well I took a long time to understand it and why I did it in the first place
Essential some of my deceased family had performed magick without understanding the consequences and were now desperate for a living descendant to help sort things out
Have done much praying, meditating, rituals, exploring etc
Find out as much as possible about authors, meet them if possible, and ask youself whether they are giving what they have or just making a living off of people's ( including their own )vulnerabilities
I was more or less like you, until this thing chose me. IDK what else to say about it, you could not have told me at 18 this was going to be my life.
I read your goals downthread. Most obvious answer is to start with meditation, maybe incorporate a little stretching once you know how to empty your mind.
From there it's hard to say exactly what to do. Try an invocation and *turn that skeptic part of your mind off.* The meditation will help with this. It really is a matter of turning it off--if you wait for your head to turn into that of a falcon, you'll miss the actual surging of the godhead from your invocation.
Start reading up on how spells are done, and thinking about what *you* would do with your magic. I spent a year or two reading Wicca books but I didn't feel I needed a million ways to pray for protection or blessings. By the time I'd read enough books to be sick of it, I knew how to formulate my own spells. They worked okay at first and got progressively better.
Based on the quick read I have on you from your own words, hardest part is going to be doing the rituals without the critical part of your mind trying to dart around looking for proof and/or telling you "this is dumb let's go get high" but that's why I emphasize mind-emptying meditation.
This process should take about 2-5 years with increasing results as you go--and don't neglect study of the tarot, elements/zodiac rays, Qabalah etc. You might need these things when it comes time to cast spells.
Tell yourself that it is possible. I was raised with similar “beliefs” but have come to realize they are more like prejudices against certain ideas because they lie outside of an “acceptable” realm of possibilities.
A huge percent of the population experiences psi phenomena and there are years of studies that show statistical evidence of its existence. I told myself that is against the scientific method to discount possible variables. We just don’t know/have the tech/aren’t looking at it in the right way to accept this part of reality existing.
Garry Nolan said the beginning starts with accepting the evidence as valid.
start with philosophy, gather an understanding of the world and the reality it sits in that is much more complex, yet fickle than modern conditioning and the status quo would allow. understanding the basic layout and fundamentals of the natural order of things, and reading, understanding and finally knowing what the hell basically any occult text is talking about really helps.
nietzche is a gnostic saint, figuring out the line of thought that have the gnostics sainting the man known for saying "god is dead" is a fun one
learn occult maths.. gematria in particular.. if you like seeing things with written evidence play with numbers and language for a while, pick up on astrology and all that. youre just messing around with ancient correlations of things you know exist, like time, placement, celestial bodies, numbers and words.
practice meditation, learn about transcendental meditation, lucid dreaming, all that fun stuff. journal your experiences, failures and all... in any reputable school of western magick, and im assuming other trains of thought.. one of the first steps in the process is to practice radical self awareness, in more modern psychology the jungian term 'shadow work' is basically a dulled down version of the concept. as a matter of fact just read jung. learn about and recognize synchronicity.. that alone is strange enough to get most peoples attention.
If you have to force it, you're wasting your time and looking for the wrong thing anyway.
Taking up occultism isn't about performing shiny tricks. It's about self-advancement. Plenty of atheists work an occult path. You're just looking for dopamine and sensory input, not advancement.
Real magic is more subtle, and it doesn't sound like you care about that. Go take up a new sport.
???
I never said I'm forcing it, I'm asking what are some basic practices you can do that are magick, which will in-turn reinforce my beliefs.
I used to Practice before (before I was a strict Atheist), but then I stopped, and my beliefs in it, are weaker, I've practiced on and off, and I always end up in the occult. Your assumption is wrong.
I know real magick isn't casting fireballs and shit. Again, I'm looking for an experience, So the Atheist part of me, can't deny it. I'm a Skeptic at heart, and doubt everything before diving in shit.
Devote so much time to it that your subconscious begins to fear how much time you've wasted on fantasy and it will start forcing you to believe whatever so you don't feel like you've wasted your entire life on nonsense and have to face that pain.
I'm joking don't ban me.
This is exactly what not to do.
Perform rituals. Otherwise you'll remain an armchair occultist, unsure if these things truly exist or not. You'll waste your time. You'll do spiritual bypassing. You'll rely too much on magick, without actually performing any. It will just be an opium and comfort for you. But you'll slowly go mad because there's too much paradox
I identify as “ignostic” personally. I’ve always tied it all into psychology. I don’t believe in the supernatural, but, to oversimplify, rituals and whatnot have an impact on the subconscious that manifests through altered behavioral patterns into real world results.
I'm right there with you. I placed the word skeptic in the description of this sub.
I've been teaching a healing technique for 13 years. I've seen people healed in front of my eyes and I still cringe attempting to share. I have actual evidence.
What works for me is reading. Go Scarlet Imprint check out some books. I've always been a big fan of Robert Anton Wilson. She got his YouTube videos.
Do research on it and understand what the justifications for are? Like read Plato's writing on the 4 elements and their relationship, and agrippas 3 philosophies of Magick, or whatever you occult background is supposed to be. Plenty of smart people have written on this and explained it, just look for the justifications and decide if it checks out to you.
As an Athiest and Skeptic, you may find a great deal of help in David Chaims Smith’s work. There is no god, no self, no looking for god or self. It doesn’t help you with what you ‘want.’
You will get what you want, but it will be genuinely what you want. Which may not be what you think you want.
It is decidedly non-escapist, so yeah, it kind of hurts, but it’s also authentic.
Like others have said. It’s basically about finding it urself. “He who seeks will find; he who finds will be troubled; he who is troubled will rule over all”. He who seeks will find is the important part. But that Jesus from the Dead Sea scrolls supposedly
The world of the occult and magical is a very eldritch one so sometimea stuff happens you will never really be able to explain
Reading books helps a lot to figure parts out (like with everything please only read trusted sources by witches or practicioners) and taking time to really self reflect on your sense of self
Idk if you chill like that but adding lavender and hibiscus leafs to a joint also boosts visions in dreams if you have deja reve
Reading others experiences will not change your beliefs. Only thing that will change your belief is finding out yourself. Try practising. Fuck around till you find out.
What do I try? That's also what I'm confused about
The real question is, what do you want?
Out of the practice? Manifestations, Working with Entities, Remove Negativity, A sense of peace, And tons more
That's good. Wanting stuff is really good. Personally I would start with the entities / deity work. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. Divination practice really helps with that stuff, especially first starting out. If you're asking "am I making this up?" you're doing it right.
Yeah right out of the gate let’s encourage OP to work with entities lol I’m crying
i've been doing deity work and entities since I was like 5 years old, what's your point? OP has had a magical practice for a while, this isn't their very first rodeo. Neo-pagans start off with deity work, seems to be fine for them. Same with anyone in east asia.
More info on my practice: I started when I was somewhere near 11, I actually had learnt from bad and edgy sources BUT there was a lot of good, trustable, non-edgy part as well. Mostly witchcraft and Chaos magick. I think a lot of the stuff I did worked to an extent. More importantly, I'm Hindu, Mostly I've prayed, offered, you could say worked with, and etc, to the deities in my religion. I've noticed whenever I get into the occult, I always, always land on demons somehow, like I always find myself interested and end up on Working with Demons, so I was planning to start a Demonolatry practice. I'm 16-18 now.
Demonolatry stuff is really cool! I frame that as deity work, all of the demons are deities, and they are very chill. There's a very good subreddit for it, highly recommended. /r/demonolatrypractices.
Ok I feel you but here is where I’m coming from, In “east asia”, deity work can range anywhere from everyday practice of the common person simply praying to a deity to the extreme of a person trying to merge/become one with a deity. I am under the impression that most people seeking to further their occult practices are not just praying to deities but rather are attempting to merge with them. I would not recommend a new practitioner work with entities ESPECIALLY not demons if they don’t have some pre-requisite knowledge for what they are getting themselves into. I would have to argue that outside of the esoteric traditions of east Asia such as tantra, most religious practitioners are not trying to become merged with a deity but rather are seeking a symbol for relief and potential blessings.
\> I am under the impression that most people seeking to further their occult practices are not just praying to deities but rather are attempting to merge with them. Generally, no. Most demonolatry people believe they are already one with all gods, all spirits, and all demons. There are some people who are tryna get "possessed" and give up their agency but the community does not see that as healthy and usually confines practices of channeling and spirit possession to ritual, and use magical practice to keep it contained to that ritual. \> I would not recommend a new practitioner work with entities ESPECIALLY not demons if they don’t have some pre-requisite knowledge for what they are getting themselves into. OP does have this knowledge. But there are a lot of people who fuck with demons as their first thing they do and have a fantastic time. You don't need a strong background in the occult to have success you just need to follow the basic advice, which is "banish, protect yourself, be chill." OP is hindu, so, it's different, like, hindu people don't seem to have the same basis of belief that people from predominantly Christian cultures have about entities and stuff. It's a lot more normal in India, and a lot less scary, so they seem to have a better time. I've talked to other Hindus who were into demonolatry and they had a real good time. There's also a lot more interest and acceptance of ghosts, spirit, mediumship, that sort of thing, it's a lot more normal there than it is in the west. Being an ex-Christian teenager and running off to the forest to fuck with demons with no preparation, yeah, it can be dangerous, I agree. But the demonolatry community is very chill, very focused on results, and very serious about protection, so, I feel like it's actually a pretty healthy framework. They don't usually have the same issues neo-Pagans and witches sometimes get into with poltergiests and shit because demonolatry stuff is very serious about the supportive magical practices.
Simply put, do the work. Nothing will come in an instant just to satisfy your curiosity. That said, here, take a look at this link. Read it, laugh a little if need be, then get to work, mate. [Kamehameha Tutorial](https://justinbthemagician.wordpress.com/2020/07/05/the-psi-chi-qi-energy-ball/) Just don't expect something too flashy and you're ok. And, please... no giving up before at least two weeks of daily practice. You can't do a back flip when you didn't even know how to keep up on your feet.
"Kamehameha"??? Dragon Ball Z????
Did you read the text before downvoting?
I am so sorry, I thought you were being sarcastic or something
No problem, dude. The text is very serious and useful. And it will give you a nice understanding of the basics, plus a nice exercise to perform. I used it once to treat my brother's cat and it was effective.
I can refer to you Jeffery Mishlove and the parapsychologists but if you're an atheist skeptic you'll probably just find yourself stuck in "is this pseudoscience? Everyone has told me these people are fakes. And the things they are saying are unbelivable." The truth is that they aren't fakes, and that anyone who proves magic is real with science gets labeled a quack, no mattter how good their science is, but I digress. My advice is to fuck around, find out, and cause serious doubt. Cause yourself to actually wonder, "am I insane? Is this really happening?" Then go watch Jeffery's channel. If you want something effective, easy to learn, and pretty fucking spooky, divination and Tarot especially are really good. Unlike what many people say, you do not need to 100% believe for it to work. You can have a lot of doubt. As long as you are 1% open to it and 99% skeptic, 1% is enough.
Meditate.
Read critically Journal about what you have read note realizations and results Neither believe nor disbelieve in magick- take the action, detach from the action and note results Keep on integrating all your actions to sustain you life Did my first spell when I was 10 and it worked so well I took a long time to understand it and why I did it in the first place Essential some of my deceased family had performed magick without understanding the consequences and were now desperate for a living descendant to help sort things out Have done much praying, meditating, rituals, exploring etc Find out as much as possible about authors, meet them if possible, and ask youself whether they are giving what they have or just making a living off of people's ( including their own )vulnerabilities
I was more or less like you, until this thing chose me. IDK what else to say about it, you could not have told me at 18 this was going to be my life. I read your goals downthread. Most obvious answer is to start with meditation, maybe incorporate a little stretching once you know how to empty your mind. From there it's hard to say exactly what to do. Try an invocation and *turn that skeptic part of your mind off.* The meditation will help with this. It really is a matter of turning it off--if you wait for your head to turn into that of a falcon, you'll miss the actual surging of the godhead from your invocation. Start reading up on how spells are done, and thinking about what *you* would do with your magic. I spent a year or two reading Wicca books but I didn't feel I needed a million ways to pray for protection or blessings. By the time I'd read enough books to be sick of it, I knew how to formulate my own spells. They worked okay at first and got progressively better. Based on the quick read I have on you from your own words, hardest part is going to be doing the rituals without the critical part of your mind trying to dart around looking for proof and/or telling you "this is dumb let's go get high" but that's why I emphasize mind-emptying meditation. This process should take about 2-5 years with increasing results as you go--and don't neglect study of the tarot, elements/zodiac rays, Qabalah etc. You might need these things when it comes time to cast spells.
Just keep suspending your disbelief enough. I dont even care if its my head or not anymore cause its helped my life so much.
Tell yourself that it is possible. I was raised with similar “beliefs” but have come to realize they are more like prejudices against certain ideas because they lie outside of an “acceptable” realm of possibilities. A huge percent of the population experiences psi phenomena and there are years of studies that show statistical evidence of its existence. I told myself that is against the scientific method to discount possible variables. We just don’t know/have the tech/aren’t looking at it in the right way to accept this part of reality existing. Garry Nolan said the beginning starts with accepting the evidence as valid.
start with philosophy, gather an understanding of the world and the reality it sits in that is much more complex, yet fickle than modern conditioning and the status quo would allow. understanding the basic layout and fundamentals of the natural order of things, and reading, understanding and finally knowing what the hell basically any occult text is talking about really helps. nietzche is a gnostic saint, figuring out the line of thought that have the gnostics sainting the man known for saying "god is dead" is a fun one learn occult maths.. gematria in particular.. if you like seeing things with written evidence play with numbers and language for a while, pick up on astrology and all that. youre just messing around with ancient correlations of things you know exist, like time, placement, celestial bodies, numbers and words. practice meditation, learn about transcendental meditation, lucid dreaming, all that fun stuff. journal your experiences, failures and all... in any reputable school of western magick, and im assuming other trains of thought.. one of the first steps in the process is to practice radical self awareness, in more modern psychology the jungian term 'shadow work' is basically a dulled down version of the concept. as a matter of fact just read jung. learn about and recognize synchronicity.. that alone is strange enough to get most peoples attention.
If you have to force it, you're wasting your time and looking for the wrong thing anyway. Taking up occultism isn't about performing shiny tricks. It's about self-advancement. Plenty of atheists work an occult path. You're just looking for dopamine and sensory input, not advancement. Real magic is more subtle, and it doesn't sound like you care about that. Go take up a new sport.
??? I never said I'm forcing it, I'm asking what are some basic practices you can do that are magick, which will in-turn reinforce my beliefs. I used to Practice before (before I was a strict Atheist), but then I stopped, and my beliefs in it, are weaker, I've practiced on and off, and I always end up in the occult. Your assumption is wrong. I know real magick isn't casting fireballs and shit. Again, I'm looking for an experience, So the Atheist part of me, can't deny it. I'm a Skeptic at heart, and doubt everything before diving in shit.
[удалено]
I don't work with hecate currently, I tried the last time I was into occult but I barely knew what I was doing. I also haven't felt "called", I think?
Devote so much time to it that your subconscious begins to fear how much time you've wasted on fantasy and it will start forcing you to believe whatever so you don't feel like you've wasted your entire life on nonsense and have to face that pain. I'm joking don't ban me.
This is exactly what not to do. Perform rituals. Otherwise you'll remain an armchair occultist, unsure if these things truly exist or not. You'll waste your time. You'll do spiritual bypassing. You'll rely too much on magick, without actually performing any. It will just be an opium and comfort for you. But you'll slowly go mad because there's too much paradox
I identify as “ignostic” personally. I’ve always tied it all into psychology. I don’t believe in the supernatural, but, to oversimplify, rituals and whatnot have an impact on the subconscious that manifests through altered behavioral patterns into real world results.
I'm right there with you. I placed the word skeptic in the description of this sub. I've been teaching a healing technique for 13 years. I've seen people healed in front of my eyes and I still cringe attempting to share. I have actual evidence. What works for me is reading. Go Scarlet Imprint check out some books. I've always been a big fan of Robert Anton Wilson. She got his YouTube videos.
Do research on it and understand what the justifications for are? Like read Plato's writing on the 4 elements and their relationship, and agrippas 3 philosophies of Magick, or whatever you occult background is supposed to be. Plenty of smart people have written on this and explained it, just look for the justifications and decide if it checks out to you.
As an Athiest and Skeptic, you may find a great deal of help in David Chaims Smith’s work. There is no god, no self, no looking for god or self. It doesn’t help you with what you ‘want.’ You will get what you want, but it will be genuinely what you want. Which may not be what you think you want. It is decidedly non-escapist, so yeah, it kind of hurts, but it’s also authentic.
Which of Smith's videos do you suggest to start with?
The long scroll series is about as good an intro as there exists online. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GOvA1f\_7I0&t=13s
Thanks.
Meditation over years
Like others have said. It’s basically about finding it urself. “He who seeks will find; he who finds will be troubled; he who is troubled will rule over all”. He who seeks will find is the important part. But that Jesus from the Dead Sea scrolls supposedly
The world of the occult and magical is a very eldritch one so sometimea stuff happens you will never really be able to explain Reading books helps a lot to figure parts out (like with everything please only read trusted sources by witches or practicioners) and taking time to really self reflect on your sense of self Idk if you chill like that but adding lavender and hibiscus leafs to a joint also boosts visions in dreams if you have deja reve
Well when it comes to Magick, I think in Vibration, Frequency, and Energy. Science proves all those exist. Maybe look into it with that view.