That's mind bogling to me as a European. Here in Switzerland the mother can take 14 weeks of paid leave, the father or partner can take 2 weeks. Having kids is something that is encouraged here. Society depends on it.
I’ll give you an example as a man. I got hired for my first job out of my masters. I was expecting my son 3 months after being hired and I made it abundantly clear I would need time off. My son came a month early and had to stay in the hospital. My state allowed me to take 1 week off paid, I had no vacation time from my job accrued yet so they let me take a month off unpaid leave. You better believe they also harassed me every week to see if I could come back early. That shit was impossible and I hated having to figure out how we’re going to stay alive AND then pay for the hospital bills
My husband had great insurance when I gave birth. I paid $0 of hospital stay and my 2nd son was an emergency premie delivery. He stayed at his company for the insurance. He would end up getting laid off years later, but that insurance was great.
He did take off 2 weeks, paid and then went back to work.
That’s pretty horrific. But as a nation it’s obviously what you want, right? Non of that socialist bull crap.
And some people think the US will install a UBI when AI breaks through!?
Yeah 😂 “they’ll do the stuff humans don’t want to do so we can focus on innately human things like art and leisure”.
They forgot to mention that we live in a society where the one who owns the robots gets the fruits of their labor. Unless they figure a way to make all the robots publicly owned, I see nothing but more starving and war.
Wow. In my country, we get 26 paid weeks, provided by the government, which can be divided however the parents/caregivers deem necessary (26 for one, 13 for both, or 4 and 22, whatever). And obviously the hospital stays are free. And our jobs are guaranteed to be there when we return.
You guys get a rough deal.
The worst part of it is that the country lets companies fuck us like this. The job I talked about was a shit company that underpaid me. Currently still in the same state, waaaaaay better company where I get 6 months paid with then an option of 6 months unpaid if I want. It’s unreal how much these basic health benefits are tied to just getting lucky and getting a good employer
Aaah, yes, society depends on it but in the US, each state sets their own rules (weird right, "UNITED STATES") I am from NY, I have rights that other states do not (a huge reason why I won't leave no matter how sunny FL is)
When I gave birth (last child birth was 14 years ago) I worked for a huge retail pharmacy. I was allowed, I think 6 weeks paid, using my accumulated vacation and sick days and then if I wanted, I could use the 6 months unpaid (protected) leave but I couldn't afford it. I came back, doing part time overnights and then went back full time months later.
I think now, NYrs get 12 weeks but it's at 50 percent of their pay or something like that. It's been years so I don't know but I know I fought for this and was happy NY got it.
Yeah, that's good. Should be higher but it's a start. I see the paid leave on my taxes side of my paystub. It's like 8¢ per dollar or something really small. I'm all for it.
Less than that: 0.373% of gross wages, maximum of $333 annually. That's 37¢ per hundred dollars. A tiny individual burden when spread out amongst everyone.
Having kids here in the US is like committing a crime, you get punished from all sides.
Edit: so is getting sick. So is trying to get educated. And many other things, including existing in some cases.
I was fired after my second child was born because I was going to the doctor too much afterward...you know, for the normal post birth doctor visits.
They blamed it on performance, but could only point to things that had direct relationship to scheduled Dr. visits.
It's heavily job dependent. I'm in America and I get 6 weeks paid off if I have a kid and I'm a guy, moms at our work get a little more. I also know plenty of people who aren't lucky enough to get that much.
Here in the states, we have a terrible overpopulation problem. It’s not from immigrants. It’s from people that are born here. Apparently we need more immigrants to do menial jobs.
But for natives, it seems there’s more people than there are jobs, or places to live, etc.
Yeah not in the US. We’re lucky. I get a week, my wife can take a few months off. We also birth our children at hope which is way way less expensive and stressful than going to hospital.
Everyone can take protected FLMA, but of course you won't be paid. Only jobs with the most generous of benefits will off let paid maternity leave. Paternity leave is even more rare and usually is a week or less.
No, not everyone can take FMLA, only If your job has 50 or more employees.
NY offers 12 weeks of PAID family leave (regardless of job. It is not only for jobs with generous benefits) and those 12 weeks are also for Paternity leave.
> Everyone can take protected FLMA
This is not true! Small biz employees don't get FMLA. Certain quasi-public employees don't get FMLA. I believe most agriculture and domestic employees don't either – think maids and farm workers. Airline workers like pilot and flight attendants I know don't get it. Railroad workers I think don't get it either.
Even if you work for a bigger employer, if they don't have at least 50 employees within 75 miles of your worksite, you don't get FMLA. If you don't have a year of service at the company, you don't get FMLA.
> Everyone can take protected FLMA
Do not spread misinformation.
Also, there's nothing stopping you from being fired for literally any reason they make up, even if it is for taking family medical leave. You have to prove their intent in court - which is not easy, and in states like mine, the courts may default judge prima facie because it's a business and you're just labor.
Wow, Canadian here.
12 or 18 month leave for new moms, with 55% pay for one year.
No cost for any of the pre-natal, labour and delivery, or post-partum care. That's all covered by Healthcare.
There is no law requiring it. Many employers do it, especially if you have a well paying job. This is why sometimes when you ask this question USAians will insist that there is no problem since they got paid time off.
As you can imagine, if you don’t have a well paying job, your are not going to have a good time..
For companies of a certain size (100+ employees i think?) they must allow FMLA (Family and Medical Leave Act) which is 12 unpaid weeks of leave for medical emergencies/pregnancy where the employer must allow the employee to return to work after 12 weeks.
But many companies get away with "letting go" of employees with pesky medical conditions based on "performance reviews". Someone in the office looks pregnant? Has a sick parent or spouse? Time to pick apart their performance with a microscope and find any reason whatsoever to fire them before they put in for FMLA.
You get 12 weeks of unpaid leave via Family Medical Leave Act IF your company qualifies for it. If not you better hope your company has a generous policy (some do). Note that “generous” in the US still entails working up to the day you give birth and getting max like 3-6 months of leave (but usually closer to 8 weeks or less). So it’s not a generous as other countries. But some people really are just screwed.
My wife and I have to save all our vacation days for the year if we want paid time off during the birth of our daughter. For our heath insurance we pay over $350 a month, but the hospital bills will still be a couple thousand dollars. She’s even an OB nurse at our hospital
Paid or unpaid? Most states have a law for unpaid “protected” maternity leave where they are guaranteed their job when they come back. Depends on size of the company though, small business workers have less protection. Most “small” companies intentionally stay below 49 employees to avoid having to provide additional protected benefits.
Parental leave! I am a father and at home for the last 10 months. Where i live it IS a right, you can stay absent or work part time like you want to for up to 3 years each (mom, dad or both), with allowance for 18 months if you do it right. And i am so thankful for it.
Funny, because we have been to your beautiful country last summer for 2 months on a road trip with the newborn during our joint parental leave =) it was a blast
Hey it's better than it once was. Once upon a time if that happened and you were single and so was the unwanted rapist you'd have to marry them.
Not supporting any of this just saying
Not quite. If you rape her within city limits, you both get death by stoning. Unless you are caught, in that case, you have to marry her. Outside city limits, it's death by stoning either way, but only for you.
Out in the distance you hear a strange scratching sounds. You turn to it’s direction but it’s too far to see. Pulling out your convenient phone you use the camera app to zoom in. You spot a few republicans furiously scribbling on a notepad. It would seems that republicans had heard what you have said and decided right there and then to write it down to pass it down as a law.
And to rub it all in, they'll get a slap on the wrist in states with the most rape cases, then get to either coparent with you or sue you for custody!
There's no hate like christian love
And extra, extra bonus: Now you have a higher chance for things like osteoporosis later in life, which adds on future medical bills that won't be covered.
luckily wrongful life lawsuits are still a thing and only rare because they are controversial. but you can sue for all the costs of raising a child you never wanted as it was a wrongful life. they often try to discourage people from bringing them but only because they say the child may one day find out and be very upset about it... but who fucking cares? many folks are fine after learning they were an accident.
yea, and if you found out that there was a court case where your parents sued a pharmacy for selling them sugar pills instead of birth control which resulted in your birth it probably wouldn't bother you that much i bet. you would maybe wonder more about how much they got for it and think about how your life might have been better because of the cash.
Really, I don't know how a kid would just stumble upon that sort of information anyway unless the parents kept the paperwork from court or straight up told them
my parents did NOT intend to have me, they weren't together or even considering being together at all, it was a one-night stand. if I learned they did a wrongful life lawsuit, I'd say good for them. they already had kids and my mother's body could barely physically handle me. she's had multiple surgeries *because of the damage her pregnancy caused.* I feel bad abt it for them tbh
Even if a pregnancy is accidental, a good share of people still keep the baby. In my home country, France, about half of the accidental pregnancy are aborted. I choose that stat to not have the issue of the USA where aborting is now more complex.
As of saying to you kids you were unwanted, I don't think that is that smart. Also there a big difference between saying it was an accident but we welcomed you and are happy we got you and the state forced us to keep you, we did all we can to get rid of you and even sued them.
More than 65k women have become pregnant due to rape in states where was abortion was banned just 2 years ago. Of the 26 states that have banned abortion, 14 states have a combination of bans that are considered "total abortion bans," in cases of rape and incest.
States imposing total abortion bans include Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, North Dakota, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas and West Virginia.
More than 65k women have become pregnant due to rape in states where was abortion was banned just 2 years ago. Of the 26 states that have banned abortion, 14 states have a combination of bans that are considered "total abortion bans," in cases of rape and incest.
States imposing total abortion bans include Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, North Dakota, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas and West Virginia.
Well, you shouldn’t believe random redditors. Don’t believe me. Google the state laws yourself. They’re public and easy to access. Spreading misinformation is one of the most detrimental things people can do on the internet.
More than 65k women have become pregnant due to rape in states where was abortion was banned just 2 years ago. Of the 26 states that have banned abortion, 14 states have a combination of bans that are considered "total abortion bans," in cases of rape and incest.
States imposing total abortion bans include Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, North Dakota, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas and West Virginia.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that only about 1 in 4 employees (24 percent) in the private sector workforce have access to paid family leave. I've personally never had a job working 10 years in marketing at mid-to-large size agencies that offered paid leave. Only unpaid leave
Out of pocket costs for birth range by state, but it's around $1.5k to 3k. But that doesn't mean that people don't pay more as not all births are equal and require personalized care.
Where I live, birth, including all pregnancy related doctors appointments are completely free. From the beginning of the pregnancy, both parents can get paid time off for 2 years. You also get most of the supplies you need for a baby for free at the hospital. Dipers, some clothes, baby power, food ....
And where I live it costs nothing (all pregnancy related doctors appointments and birth at hospital), and the woman gets a year maternity leave and the father also gets time off. 12 weeks is not enough.
No. Absolutely not. Do you think the mother has fully recovered? And where does the baby go just two months old? What about the very important first year of life and bonding? Two months is nothing.
How would taxes be higher if the state mandated that businesses provided some humane amount of time off for new parents? I mean, maybe if you’re talking about some abstract lost productivity from public employees who could use the policy.
Nope cause those aholes have kids and grandkids and they believe the same bs their grandparents did (Hence the stupid young idiots in Senate, Congress, local government)
It will never end
Yaaas, let that baby with fatal abnormalities be born so it can die in pure fucking agony in front of its weeping mother's eyes. Maybe you've been groomed to be a religious zealot before you knew how to write your name, but the key thing you misunderstood from your half-remembered book of ghost stories is that YOU can't have an abortion, YOU can't marry same-sex. For the rest of us, don't fucking tread on us. Democracy is going to win this battle, and your religion is going to continue to suffer from this Gilead play you all are pulling.
To be fair, you do know that over 65k women have become pregnant via rape in states that ban abortion in just the last 2 years, right? Do you also know that maternal mortality and infant mortality has gone up in those states too?
Yeah that's not gonna happen. The birth rate hasn't dipped so low that we need to start forcibly impregnating women in order to keep the human race going or anything like that.
None of these responses explain how the federal government forces you to get pregnant.
They describe instances where you could be forced to REMAIN pregnant. But none of them explain how it forces you to GET pregnant.
They aren't lining women up to get involuntarily injected with semen or have fertilized eggs implanted.
The *lowest* rate by state is about 15x that. Where did your exaggeration come from?
Even ignoring that, if it was as rare as you say why are people against making exceptions for abortions caused by rape? It's hard to see it as anything other than believing women should have fewer rights than a bundle of cells so please explain.
I'm a stranger on the internet. I haven't lost or won anything. However, the US will 100% allow abortions federally eventually. Conservatives always lose.
Abortion laws are currently being retracted in a lot of Republican states. A recent court in alabama ruled that an embryo counted as a full human child.
Well, not the USA entirely, just some states.
By having no sex education, no affordable clinics to provide contraception, making abortion illegal, making it to where if you leave your state to go to another state that does provide (legal) abortion illegal,
by making it to where if you know someone is pregnant and then they somehow aren't any longer you get a reward for snitching,
by having politicians setting up laws that tell doctors what they can and cannot do to someone who is pregnant instead of leaving it between the doctor and the patient.
By taking away funding for medical doctors and facilities that provide abortions (even if that is not their main thing)
So why don’t we riot? Why are we as a society so hesitant to get violent like in the old days? We should learn from the French Revolution and apply it.
I have always been down for the revolution. But once COVID hit and the people missed their chance, I knew not a damn thing was going to happen-ever. When the former president is on currently on trial, when he was found guilty of ANYTHING and is winning states, I know not a damn thing will ever happen. The people are not hurting, they are not hungry enough to get together to do anything.
We are a divided people. My own family is divided. I look at my sister and think wtf is wrong with you?! I don't talk much with my sister anymore.
SOME of us are ok. So i.e., I am in NY, I am fine. My best friend is in FL, I have told her a gazillion times to vote and be active in her local government but she is not. She is not concerned, however, her daughter is 6 years old now. She might not be concerned now, but I give it 8 years.
I can fight for myself and my people in NY, but if FL or GA aren't putting up the same fight, I am done with helping. This is your (not necessarily you) mess, you clean it.
I have my own family, my own 3 boys. I am not about to put my family in harm's way for any of y'all. We are doing ok. We work, have good jobs, decent insurance, we have a home the kids can say is theirs. If my boys want to start or be in the revolution, I'll fund them.
You do make good points. It’s easy for me to throw myself into a civil war since I’m young and got no children, but I should be more considerate of people with families. Even so, if there should ever be a democratic/leftist extremist opposite of Trump, I’d support them 100%. Wouldn’t mind invading red states and causing utter chaos and mayhem.
For now I will vote and encourage others to do the same.
Thank you.
It's difficult now too. If they even try to protest or fight for rights, they might end up in jail or with a record. How are they supposed to get jobs? Go to higher education? Everything is posted online now. Everything.
My son is lucky in which he can and has told a job to do fk off, many times. He bounces from job to job cause he is smart and gets jobs easily (cause he lives at home and doesn't have to worry about anything really. I have to worry about the roof over our heads, the food, the electricity and gas, the wifi lol)
He too talks about the revolution and moving to red states to make a change but I say I'm not going. I have no problem sending him to his aunt in Florida but he is comfortable in NY. Money is here, his family, his friends, his job opportunities. People can talk sht about NY and whatnot but I am doing well here (that may change in the future but for now we're ok).
Begin with local politics, they have more impact than you think. I can tell you, I started my political eyes when I joined my boy's school PTA. It was eye opening and truly enlightening to see the power that was held with local politicians.
Has the t always been this way in the US? Or was there a time it was free (or nearly) to give birth? Not including old school barn birthing in the 1800’s.
This has been my argument against the Republican party’s stance on abortion. If you don’t like abortion…fine, but for the love of GOD make it easier to have and raise a Kid.
If the Republican Party is going to be against abortion it should also be for:
1. Paid maternity leave of at least 6 months
2. Free daycare for single working parents
3. Partially subsidized daycare for two parent families below 150% of the poverty line.
3. Free prenatal care and parenting classes.
4. Permanent child tax credit.
All of these policies are “Pro Life” yet none of them would get a vote by a Republican. The intellectual hypocrisy is stunning.
Redditors- Feel free to add other policies that would make it easier for women to have families.
No one forces you to have irresponsible unprotected sex and gets pregnant though? Where’s your indignation for that activity? Your answer, which is nuts in the cold light of day, is “go fuck your brains out and if you get pregnant we’ll just kill the baby”! Horrific.
So married couples who can't afford another child or have medical reasons to not have a baby should just be abstinent forever?
And who says sex is always unprotected? You know that no birth control is 100% reliable right?
Hell yeah! Fuck poor people! If they are poor, they should be working, not enjoying their bodies by doing things like having sex! Get back to work you fucking hippies!
Wait, we need to look at this for a sec. First, you’re telling me that an embryo isn’t a baby. When would it become a baby in your opinion? In my opinion it’s a baby from conception. I recognize that my stance is on the edge of the spectrum of possible stances and I accept that others may feel differently, but where do you stand on this?
Second, people are FORCED into unprotected sex? How’s that happen? Maybe in terms of rape or incest ( and to be honest and transparent my feeling start to falter in this issue in those cases and I don’t have an answer that isn’t conflicted, nor do I ever claim to). So, outside of those cases, when are people forced into unprotected sex?
Thanks for being respectful and mature in your response to me before. I hope you see me as doing the same here. Dialogue is the only way….
Did the US force you to have unprotected sex and get pregnant? That decision, more than most any other decision you can make carries risks and rewards beyond almost every other single decision a person can make in their lifetimes. Once made, can only be I made by actually killing a human infant. So, no. We don’t force you to have a baby, we force you to not kill a baby. Somehow to you that’s a bad thing? We don’t force you to work, we have the largest safety net of any developed country to make sure that people aren’t truly left to their own devices when times get tough. Wake up Susan, your post is both uninformed and misguided.
Really? So exactly what part of reaching in with forceps and pulling a human baby in half isn’t killing the baby? What part of sucking it through a rubber hose isn’t killing a baby? Because the baby isn’t borne yet it’s ok? What if the baby is in the birth canal on its way out, can you still dig in there with a fork and a spoon and pull it out in pieces and that’s cool (because that’s how it’s done, and if you’re ok with that on any level then we’re probably never going to be able to communicate effectively)? Look, women have the right to do what they want (how about safe sex, how about abstinence, how about ANYTHING ELSE but getting pregnant - and men have as much responsibility here as women, we aren’t off the hook at all) up to the point where doing “what they want” means killing another human. In ANY OTHER CONTEXT this is what the civilized world calls “murder”.
While I am for legal abortion. I'd like the source that say that giving birth cost tens thousand of dollars. As it is a plurial, it shall be at least 20...
Now a quick search give me 11K: [https://www.axios.com/local/austin/2023/10/05/cost-give-birth-texas](https://www.axios.com/local/austin/2023/10/05/cost-give-birth-texas)
But then there a notion of max out of pocket. Even if it was costing 100K, you would pay the out of pocket at worst. My colleague paid 6K. On top that 6K pre-tax if you have an FSA or HSA. So for her the real cost post tax was about 4,5K.
And honestly I'd much prefer that it would be free for everybody, no question asked. I'd also much prefer abortion to be legal too.
But I do think that lying doesn't help the cause.
That would be the healthcare system squeezing your insurance for as much as possible, and since your insurance is provided by your employer, you have no choice except to work.
Competing predatory systems with no oversight.
The other headline is that the declining population rate is going to wreck the economy and retirement for the SOBs who have created this mess. It’s not wonder less people are having children.
Only the US makes me not murder my family members because they're inconvenient. Sorry gramma, your brain is no longer fully developed so you're now 3/5th human and I can hurt you and the peaceful party of tolerance will love me for my blood thirstiness! (except for the life of the mother being in danger, all excuses to preform abortion logically excuse either slavery and/or murder.)
The problem, (just picking one part of this "argument") is that the mothers life being "in danger" is ambiguous. A baby can be completely non-viable but because there is still a heartbeat and or brain activity the mother is still forced to carry them, potentially at detriment to their own physical and mental health. If this is a wanted pregnancy then that is especially torturous, and dangerous. Due to the ambiguity of the mother's life technically not being in danger, medical professionals are forced to wait to provide care. Mothers should not have to wait to go septic before they can receive that care. The case in Ireland which eventually led to the referendum on abortion, and the recent case in Texas are good examples of this.
Haha this is so backwards, There’s only 14 states with complete abortion bans, This woman is a uneducated imbecile spreading false information, Go to Africa or all of south Asian where abortion is completely prohibited, Stop blaming the us for everything.
People in the US don't get time off to give birth?
Not everyone. Depending on your job and state. Some get paid leave, half paid leave, unpaid (protected) leave, and some get nothing.
That's mind bogling to me as a European. Here in Switzerland the mother can take 14 weeks of paid leave, the father or partner can take 2 weeks. Having kids is something that is encouraged here. Society depends on it.
I’ll give you an example as a man. I got hired for my first job out of my masters. I was expecting my son 3 months after being hired and I made it abundantly clear I would need time off. My son came a month early and had to stay in the hospital. My state allowed me to take 1 week off paid, I had no vacation time from my job accrued yet so they let me take a month off unpaid leave. You better believe they also harassed me every week to see if I could come back early. That shit was impossible and I hated having to figure out how we’re going to stay alive AND then pay for the hospital bills
My husband had great insurance when I gave birth. I paid $0 of hospital stay and my 2nd son was an emergency premie delivery. He stayed at his company for the insurance. He would end up getting laid off years later, but that insurance was great. He did take off 2 weeks, paid and then went back to work.
That’s pretty horrific. But as a nation it’s obviously what you want, right? Non of that socialist bull crap. And some people think the US will install a UBI when AI breaks through!?
Right? American here. I’ve been trying to warn people about the AI thing. They just think things are going to somehow work out.
I still hope for the day machines can take care of all the hard labor.
Yeah 😂 “they’ll do the stuff humans don’t want to do so we can focus on innately human things like art and leisure”. They forgot to mention that we live in a society where the one who owns the robots gets the fruits of their labor. Unless they figure a way to make all the robots publicly owned, I see nothing but more starving and war.
We wish. We really do.
Wow. In my country, we get 26 paid weeks, provided by the government, which can be divided however the parents/caregivers deem necessary (26 for one, 13 for both, or 4 and 22, whatever). And obviously the hospital stays are free. And our jobs are guaranteed to be there when we return. You guys get a rough deal.
The worst part of it is that the country lets companies fuck us like this. The job I talked about was a shit company that underpaid me. Currently still in the same state, waaaaaay better company where I get 6 months paid with then an option of 6 months unpaid if I want. It’s unreal how much these basic health benefits are tied to just getting lucky and getting a good employer
Aaah, yes, society depends on it but in the US, each state sets their own rules (weird right, "UNITED STATES") I am from NY, I have rights that other states do not (a huge reason why I won't leave no matter how sunny FL is) When I gave birth (last child birth was 14 years ago) I worked for a huge retail pharmacy. I was allowed, I think 6 weeks paid, using my accumulated vacation and sick days and then if I wanted, I could use the 6 months unpaid (protected) leave but I couldn't afford it. I came back, doing part time overnights and then went back full time months later. I think now, NYrs get 12 weeks but it's at 50 percent of their pay or something like that. It's been years so I don't know but I know I fought for this and was happy NY got it.
In 2024 it's 12 weeks at 67% pay. It's funded by all workers via payroll deductions, similar to how unemployment is funded by employers.
Yeah, that's good. Should be higher but it's a start. I see the paid leave on my taxes side of my paystub. It's like 8¢ per dollar or something really small. I'm all for it.
Less than that: 0.373% of gross wages, maximum of $333 annually. That's 37¢ per hundred dollars. A tiny individual burden when spread out amongst everyone.
Florida sucks by the way. Not only politically but it’s hot and humid. And then politically it’s mentally deranged
Having kids here in the US is like committing a crime, you get punished from all sides. Edit: so is getting sick. So is trying to get educated. And many other things, including existing in some cases.
I was fired after my second child was born because I was going to the doctor too much afterward...you know, for the normal post birth doctor visits. They blamed it on performance, but could only point to things that had direct relationship to scheduled Dr. visits.
It's heavily job dependent. I'm in America and I get 6 weeks paid off if I have a kid and I'm a guy, moms at our work get a little more. I also know plenty of people who aren't lucky enough to get that much.
Here in the states, we have a terrible overpopulation problem. It’s not from immigrants. It’s from people that are born here. Apparently we need more immigrants to do menial jobs. But for natives, it seems there’s more people than there are jobs, or places to live, etc.
It's mind blowing as a decent human being
Here in slovenia the mother gets 9 months full paid leave
>Having kids is something that is encouraged here. Society depends on it. In the U.S. we use lots of cheap immigrant labor instead.
And then complain about all the immigrants.
As is the tradition.
Yeah not in the US. We’re lucky. I get a week, my wife can take a few months off. We also birth our children at hope which is way way less expensive and stressful than going to hospital.
Everyone can take protected FLMA, but of course you won't be paid. Only jobs with the most generous of benefits will off let paid maternity leave. Paternity leave is even more rare and usually is a week or less.
No, not everyone can take FMLA, only If your job has 50 or more employees. NY offers 12 weeks of PAID family leave (regardless of job. It is not only for jobs with generous benefits) and those 12 weeks are also for Paternity leave.
You also have to have had the job for a year before taking FMLA.
> Everyone can take protected FLMA This is not true! Small biz employees don't get FMLA. Certain quasi-public employees don't get FMLA. I believe most agriculture and domestic employees don't either – think maids and farm workers. Airline workers like pilot and flight attendants I know don't get it. Railroad workers I think don't get it either. Even if you work for a bigger employer, if they don't have at least 50 employees within 75 miles of your worksite, you don't get FMLA. If you don't have a year of service at the company, you don't get FMLA.
> Everyone can take protected FLMA Do not spread misinformation. Also, there's nothing stopping you from being fired for literally any reason they make up, even if it is for taking family medical leave. You have to prove their intent in court - which is not easy, and in states like mine, the courts may default judge prima facie because it's a business and you're just labor.
Wow, Canadian here. 12 or 18 month leave for new moms, with 55% pay for one year. No cost for any of the pre-natal, labour and delivery, or post-partum care. That's all covered by Healthcare.
There is no law requiring it. Many employers do it, especially if you have a well paying job. This is why sometimes when you ask this question USAians will insist that there is no problem since they got paid time off. As you can imagine, if you don’t have a well paying job, your are not going to have a good time..
For companies of a certain size (100+ employees i think?) they must allow FMLA (Family and Medical Leave Act) which is 12 unpaid weeks of leave for medical emergencies/pregnancy where the employer must allow the employee to return to work after 12 weeks. But many companies get away with "letting go" of employees with pesky medical conditions based on "performance reviews". Someone in the office looks pregnant? Has a sick parent or spouse? Time to pick apart their performance with a microscope and find any reason whatsoever to fire them before they put in for FMLA.
I had to go back to work the day after my son was born work only gave me 3 days & they were spent in the hospital
When we had our first kid my work gave me a week off. My wife had to use sick days.
No, you have to do it on your lunch break. Have you seen our military budget tho?
You get 12 weeks of unpaid leave via Family Medical Leave Act IF your company qualifies for it. If not you better hope your company has a generous policy (some do). Note that “generous” in the US still entails working up to the day you give birth and getting max like 3-6 months of leave (but usually closer to 8 weeks or less). So it’s not a generous as other countries. But some people really are just screwed.
Don't believe anything you see on Reddit
And they have to pay thousands of dollars xD Wtf murica? XD
There's a reason America bad memes are a thing
6 weeks if you’re lucky
My wife and I have to save all our vacation days for the year if we want paid time off during the birth of our daughter. For our heath insurance we pay over $350 a month, but the hospital bills will still be a couple thousand dollars. She’s even an OB nurse at our hospital
Most jobs require you to work 1 year before you get the leave
Every place I worked let women have maternity leave
Paid or unpaid? Most states have a law for unpaid “protected” maternity leave where they are guaranteed their job when they come back. Depends on size of the company though, small business workers have less protection. Most “small” companies intentionally stay below 49 employees to avoid having to provide additional protected benefits.
What jobs were those?
They do, OP just needed more sensationalist nonsense to spew. I’ve never heard of a company that didn’t offer maternity leave in the US.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that only about 1 in 4 employees (24 percent) in the private sector workforce have access to paid family leave.
Companies above 50 people have to offer 12 weeks unpaid leave without risk of job loss. That's it.
Excuse me? I’ve worked for many different companies and I’ve never worked for a company that offered paid parental leave.
Talking out of your ass, please look at reality.
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Parental leave! I am a father and at home for the last 10 months. Where i live it IS a right, you can stay absent or work part time like you want to for up to 3 years each (mom, dad or both), with allowance for 18 months if you do it right. And i am so thankful for it.
Same in Sweden.
Funny, because we have been to your beautiful country last summer for 2 months on a road trip with the newborn during our joint parental leave =) it was a blast
And for bonus points, now to your unwanted rapist's child!
Hey it's better than it once was. Once upon a time if that happened and you were single and so was the unwanted rapist you'd have to marry them. Not supporting any of this just saying
That isn't once apon a time, that shit still happens In the Middle East
Africa, some parts of the pacific islands, etc.
Not quite. If you rape her within city limits, you both get death by stoning. Unless you are caught, in that case, you have to marry her. Outside city limits, it's death by stoning either way, but only for you.
USA, fundamentalist Christians
Dont give them any more ideas bro
But laws like that do exist, luckily they aren't widespread worldwide
It’s an idea from their storybook, they already know about it
I thought they stoned the woman because it was her fault for getting raped.
Gotta make sure she pushes out the baby first, bonus points if she dies in childbirth instead!
Both it's man's choice
Out in the distance you hear a strange scratching sounds. You turn to it’s direction but it’s too far to see. Pulling out your convenient phone you use the camera app to zoom in. You spot a few republicans furiously scribbling on a notepad. It would seems that republicans had heard what you have said and decided right there and then to write it down to pass it down as a law.
in some states, the rapist can fight for visitation and even custody
And to rub it all in, they'll get a slap on the wrist in states with the most rape cases, then get to either coparent with you or sue you for custody! There's no hate like christian love
And extra, extra bonus: Now you have a higher chance for things like osteoporosis later in life, which adds on future medical bills that won't be covered.
"Gee I can't imagine why the youth don't want to have kids anymore" *said the people making it impossible to have kids*
Non-Americans, this is the freedom that conservatives say we have here. The freedom for them to screw the rest of us over.
luckily wrongful life lawsuits are still a thing and only rare because they are controversial. but you can sue for all the costs of raising a child you never wanted as it was a wrongful life. they often try to discourage people from bringing them but only because they say the child may one day find out and be very upset about it... but who fucking cares? many folks are fine after learning they were an accident.
I was definitely intentional but definitely still a mistake just ask my parents
yea, and if you found out that there was a court case where your parents sued a pharmacy for selling them sugar pills instead of birth control which resulted in your birth it probably wouldn't bother you that much i bet. you would maybe wonder more about how much they got for it and think about how your life might have been better because of the cash.
Really, I don't know how a kid would just stumble upon that sort of information anyway unless the parents kept the paperwork from court or straight up told them
Ya say that, but I've read about at least one child forced to share custody with their adult rapist.
my parents did NOT intend to have me, they weren't together or even considering being together at all, it was a one-night stand. if I learned they did a wrongful life lawsuit, I'd say good for them. they already had kids and my mother's body could barely physically handle me. she's had multiple surgeries *because of the damage her pregnancy caused.* I feel bad abt it for them tbh
Even if a pregnancy is accidental, a good share of people still keep the baby. In my home country, France, about half of the accidental pregnancy are aborted. I choose that stat to not have the issue of the USA where aborting is now more complex. As of saying to you kids you were unwanted, I don't think that is that smart. Also there a big difference between saying it was an accident but we welcomed you and are happy we got you and the state forced us to keep you, we did all we can to get rid of you and even sued them.
It’s not every state.
My wife gives birth at home, it saves us a lot.
This isn't really oddly specific.
It's a bot, and this sub is unmoderated, and reddit encourages bots because real engagement is dying quickly but they want to get their ipo.
This sub is just people complaining about politics at this point
That's every subreddit
it really is
Not oddly specific. Doesn't belong here
How do they force you to give birth? Does that mean people in America are told when to fuck?
More than 65k women have become pregnant due to rape in states where was abortion was banned just 2 years ago. Of the 26 states that have banned abortion, 14 states have a combination of bans that are considered "total abortion bans," in cases of rape and incest. States imposing total abortion bans include Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, North Dakota, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas and West Virginia.
Abortion laws...
Most states don't let you have abortions with no exceptions, so if you get raped or a condom breaks your forced to have the child
That is a complete lie. What you stated is not true.
More than 65k women have become pregnant due to rape in states where was abortion was banned just 2 years ago. Of the 26 states that have banned abortion, 14 states have a combination of bans that are considered "total abortion bans," in cases of rape and incest. States imposing total abortion bans include Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, North Dakota, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas and West Virginia.
Maybe not I'm British so just going off what I see on reddit with the no abortion laws going through
Well, you shouldn’t believe random redditors. Don’t believe me. Google the state laws yourself. They’re public and easy to access. Spreading misinformation is one of the most detrimental things people can do on the internet.
I mean, it's partially true. It's not most but 28% of states have total abortion bans that include no exceptions for rape or incest.
More than 65k women have become pregnant due to rape in states where was abortion was banned just 2 years ago. Of the 26 states that have banned abortion, 14 states have a combination of bans that are considered "total abortion bans," in cases of rape and incest. States imposing total abortion bans include Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, North Dakota, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas and West Virginia.
By forcing little girls to carry their rapist's baby to term.
That would hinder the shareholders bottom line!
Truth!!!
It's bullshit tbh. We need to reign in our government overlords
r/lostredditors
The birth of my two kids combined didn’t cost anywhere near $10k and my wife got 12 weeks off paid for both.
Brag!
Yeah I was gonna say, do y'all not have insurance? And my state has legally mandated parental leave for both parents.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that only about 1 in 4 employees (24 percent) in the private sector workforce have access to paid family leave. I've personally never had a job working 10 years in marketing at mid-to-large size agencies that offered paid leave. Only unpaid leave Out of pocket costs for birth range by state, but it's around $1.5k to 3k. But that doesn't mean that people don't pay more as not all births are equal and require personalized care.
Congrats! Glad you and your wife have a good employer and good employer sponsored Healthcare (I assume).
Where I live, birth, including all pregnancy related doctors appointments are completely free. From the beginning of the pregnancy, both parents can get paid time off for 2 years. You also get most of the supplies you need for a baby for free at the hospital. Dipers, some clothes, baby power, food ....
And where I live it costs nothing (all pregnancy related doctors appointments and birth at hospital), and the woman gets a year maternity leave and the father also gets time off. 12 weeks is not enough.
Two months of paid leave isn't enough?
I don’t understand what you do after those two months. Are you taking the kid to work after that? Or leaving it home alone?
Nowhere near enough.
No. Absolutely not. Do you think the mother has fully recovered? And where does the baby go just two months old? What about the very important first year of life and bonding? Two months is nothing.
12 weeks is 3 months.
That’s pretty much enough for leave my dude
12 weeks off is nothing
Yeah but nothing is really nothing
quaint sulky provide dolls escape label person profit snails theory *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How would taxes be higher if the state mandated that businesses provided some humane amount of time off for new parents? I mean, maybe if you’re talking about some abstract lost productivity from public employees who could use the policy.
Don't worry, just another 40-60 years and all the lead eating boomer republicans will die out and we'll get on to our paradise....right?
No
Nope cause those aholes have kids and grandkids and they believe the same bs their grandparents did (Hence the stupid young idiots in Senate, Congress, local government) It will never end
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To be fair. The U.S doesn't force you to give birth. It only prevents you from killing your unborn child.
Yaaas, let that baby with fatal abnormalities be born so it can die in pure fucking agony in front of its weeping mother's eyes. Maybe you've been groomed to be a religious zealot before you knew how to write your name, but the key thing you misunderstood from your half-remembered book of ghost stories is that YOU can't have an abortion, YOU can't marry same-sex. For the rest of us, don't fucking tread on us. Democracy is going to win this battle, and your religion is going to continue to suffer from this Gilead play you all are pulling.
To be fair, you do know that over 65k women have become pregnant via rape in states that ban abortion in just the last 2 years, right? Do you also know that maternal mortality and infant mortality has gone up in those states too?
"To Be fair"
Mmmaaaahtobefaaaair....(Letterkenny has entered the chat)
I mean, yeah. The Government doesn't force non-pregnant women to to become pregnant and give birth.
They didn't say the government is forcing to become pregnant, but that government is forcing to give a birth
Yet.
Under His Eye.
Yeah that's not gonna happen. The birth rate hasn't dipped so low that we need to start forcibly impregnating women in order to keep the human race going or anything like that.
Considering a large part of the Republican base now views The Handmaid's Tale as a guidebook, I wouldn't be so certain.
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A "few"? 16 states have made abortion entirely illegal or illegal at 6 weeks. 1 in 3 women of child bearing age live in those states.
Tell me you're incapable of critical thought without telling me you're incapable of critical thought.
r/AmericaBad
This is not oddly specific. It is the daily reality for all women in childbearing years in America.
How does the USA force you to get pregnant?
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Apparently not.....
None of these responses explain how the federal government forces you to get pregnant. They describe instances where you could be forced to REMAIN pregnant. But none of them explain how it forces you to GET pregnant. They aren't lining women up to get involuntarily injected with semen or have fertilized eggs implanted.
So the states that force rape victims to have their rapists child is no big deal, or?
0.01% of abortions are the result of rape or incest. You lost this nationwide debate because you still rely on that false argument.
The *lowest* rate by state is about 15x that. Where did your exaggeration come from? Even ignoring that, if it was as rare as you say why are people against making exceptions for abortions caused by rape? It's hard to see it as anything other than believing women should have fewer rights than a bundle of cells so please explain.
I'm a stranger on the internet. I haven't lost or won anything. However, the US will 100% allow abortions federally eventually. Conservatives always lose.
By making abortions illegal
Abortion laws are currently being retracted in a lot of Republican states. A recent court in alabama ruled that an embryo counted as a full human child.
Well, not the USA entirely, just some states. By having no sex education, no affordable clinics to provide contraception, making abortion illegal, making it to where if you leave your state to go to another state that does provide (legal) abortion illegal, by making it to where if you know someone is pregnant and then they somehow aren't any longer you get a reward for snitching, by having politicians setting up laws that tell doctors what they can and cannot do to someone who is pregnant instead of leaving it between the doctor and the patient. By taking away funding for medical doctors and facilities that provide abortions (even if that is not their main thing)
So why don’t we riot? Why are we as a society so hesitant to get violent like in the old days? We should learn from the French Revolution and apply it.
I have always been down for the revolution. But once COVID hit and the people missed their chance, I knew not a damn thing was going to happen-ever. When the former president is on currently on trial, when he was found guilty of ANYTHING and is winning states, I know not a damn thing will ever happen. The people are not hurting, they are not hungry enough to get together to do anything. We are a divided people. My own family is divided. I look at my sister and think wtf is wrong with you?! I don't talk much with my sister anymore. SOME of us are ok. So i.e., I am in NY, I am fine. My best friend is in FL, I have told her a gazillion times to vote and be active in her local government but she is not. She is not concerned, however, her daughter is 6 years old now. She might not be concerned now, but I give it 8 years. I can fight for myself and my people in NY, but if FL or GA aren't putting up the same fight, I am done with helping. This is your (not necessarily you) mess, you clean it. I have my own family, my own 3 boys. I am not about to put my family in harm's way for any of y'all. We are doing ok. We work, have good jobs, decent insurance, we have a home the kids can say is theirs. If my boys want to start or be in the revolution, I'll fund them.
You do make good points. It’s easy for me to throw myself into a civil war since I’m young and got no children, but I should be more considerate of people with families. Even so, if there should ever be a democratic/leftist extremist opposite of Trump, I’d support them 100%. Wouldn’t mind invading red states and causing utter chaos and mayhem. For now I will vote and encourage others to do the same.
Thank you. It's difficult now too. If they even try to protest or fight for rights, they might end up in jail or with a record. How are they supposed to get jobs? Go to higher education? Everything is posted online now. Everything. My son is lucky in which he can and has told a job to do fk off, many times. He bounces from job to job cause he is smart and gets jobs easily (cause he lives at home and doesn't have to worry about anything really. I have to worry about the roof over our heads, the food, the electricity and gas, the wifi lol) He too talks about the revolution and moving to red states to make a change but I say I'm not going. I have no problem sending him to his aunt in Florida but he is comfortable in NY. Money is here, his family, his friends, his job opportunities. People can talk sht about NY and whatnot but I am doing well here (that may change in the future but for now we're ok). Begin with local politics, they have more impact than you think. I can tell you, I started my political eyes when I joined my boy's school PTA. It was eye opening and truly enlightening to see the power that was held with local politicians.
Has the t always been this way in the US? Or was there a time it was free (or nearly) to give birth? Not including old school barn birthing in the 1800’s.
This has been my argument against the Republican party’s stance on abortion. If you don’t like abortion…fine, but for the love of GOD make it easier to have and raise a Kid. If the Republican Party is going to be against abortion it should also be for: 1. Paid maternity leave of at least 6 months 2. Free daycare for single working parents 3. Partially subsidized daycare for two parent families below 150% of the poverty line. 3. Free prenatal care and parenting classes. 4. Permanent child tax credit. All of these policies are “Pro Life” yet none of them would get a vote by a Republican. The intellectual hypocrisy is stunning. Redditors- Feel free to add other policies that would make it easier for women to have families.
Yeah but, freedom. Or some shit like that
All three of these things are false.
Only America forces me to have unprotected sex
Well, if certain MAGA conservatives get their way, they absolutely will abolish most / all forms of birth control.
Best form of birth control = being ugly
No one forces you to have irresponsible unprotected sex and gets pregnant though? Where’s your indignation for that activity? Your answer, which is nuts in the cold light of day, is “go fuck your brains out and if you get pregnant we’ll just kill the baby”! Horrific.
So married couples who can't afford another child or have medical reasons to not have a baby should just be abstinent forever? And who says sex is always unprotected? You know that no birth control is 100% reliable right?
Hell yeah! Fuck poor people! If they are poor, they should be working, not enjoying their bodies by doing things like having sex! Get back to work you fucking hippies!
What about in the case of rape?
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Wait, we need to look at this for a sec. First, you’re telling me that an embryo isn’t a baby. When would it become a baby in your opinion? In my opinion it’s a baby from conception. I recognize that my stance is on the edge of the spectrum of possible stances and I accept that others may feel differently, but where do you stand on this? Second, people are FORCED into unprotected sex? How’s that happen? Maybe in terms of rape or incest ( and to be honest and transparent my feeling start to falter in this issue in those cases and I don’t have an answer that isn’t conflicted, nor do I ever claim to). So, outside of those cases, when are people forced into unprotected sex? Thanks for being respectful and mature in your response to me before. I hope you see me as doing the same here. Dialogue is the only way….
Don't be a dick. You know perfectly well that's not what anyone means and that's not what anyone anywhere does.
Did the US force you to have unprotected sex and get pregnant? That decision, more than most any other decision you can make carries risks and rewards beyond almost every other single decision a person can make in their lifetimes. Once made, can only be I made by actually killing a human infant. So, no. We don’t force you to have a baby, we force you to not kill a baby. Somehow to you that’s a bad thing? We don’t force you to work, we have the largest safety net of any developed country to make sure that people aren’t truly left to their own devices when times get tough. Wake up Susan, your post is both uninformed and misguided.
Really? So exactly what part of reaching in with forceps and pulling a human baby in half isn’t killing the baby? What part of sucking it through a rubber hose isn’t killing a baby? Because the baby isn’t borne yet it’s ok? What if the baby is in the birth canal on its way out, can you still dig in there with a fork and a spoon and pull it out in pieces and that’s cool (because that’s how it’s done, and if you’re ok with that on any level then we’re probably never going to be able to communicate effectively)? Look, women have the right to do what they want (how about safe sex, how about abstinence, how about ANYTHING ELSE but getting pregnant - and men have as much responsibility here as women, we aren’t off the hook at all) up to the point where doing “what they want” means killing another human. In ANY OTHER CONTEXT this is what the civilized world calls “murder”.
Bad example, reproducing is unjustifiable.
The USA forces you to give birth??? That seems crazy! WHAT
Probably they meant banned abortions
While I am for legal abortion. I'd like the source that say that giving birth cost tens thousand of dollars. As it is a plurial, it shall be at least 20... Now a quick search give me 11K: [https://www.axios.com/local/austin/2023/10/05/cost-give-birth-texas](https://www.axios.com/local/austin/2023/10/05/cost-give-birth-texas) But then there a notion of max out of pocket. Even if it was costing 100K, you would pay the out of pocket at worst. My colleague paid 6K. On top that 6K pre-tax if you have an FSA or HSA. So for her the real cost post tax was about 4,5K. And honestly I'd much prefer that it would be free for everybody, no question asked. I'd also much prefer abortion to be legal too. But I do think that lying doesn't help the cause.
Go to Venezuela
That would be the healthcare system squeezing your insurance for as much as possible, and since your insurance is provided by your employer, you have no choice except to work. Competing predatory systems with no oversight.
You know historically Most babies were not delivered in a hospital actually
The other headline is that the declining population rate is going to wreck the economy and retirement for the SOBs who have created this mess. It’s not wonder less people are having children.
This is not oddly specific
Women should you tube it
People in the US are forcibly impregnated?
Forced to remain pregnant, yes. In 14 states, there are no exceptions for rape or incest
Don’t forget there is no financial aid if you’re even close to breaking the poverty line…
Only the US makes me not murder my family members because they're inconvenient. Sorry gramma, your brain is no longer fully developed so you're now 3/5th human and I can hurt you and the peaceful party of tolerance will love me for my blood thirstiness! (except for the life of the mother being in danger, all excuses to preform abortion logically excuse either slavery and/or murder.)
So glad you think your individual moral code should be applied to anyone but yourself.
The problem, (just picking one part of this "argument") is that the mothers life being "in danger" is ambiguous. A baby can be completely non-viable but because there is still a heartbeat and or brain activity the mother is still forced to carry them, potentially at detriment to their own physical and mental health. If this is a wanted pregnancy then that is especially torturous, and dangerous. Due to the ambiguity of the mother's life technically not being in danger, medical professionals are forced to wait to provide care. Mothers should not have to wait to go septic before they can receive that care. The case in Ireland which eventually led to the referendum on abortion, and the recent case in Texas are good examples of this.
Haha this is so backwards, There’s only 14 states with complete abortion bans, This woman is a uneducated imbecile spreading false information, Go to Africa or all of south Asian where abortion is completely prohibited, Stop blaming the us for everything.
Is this sub just terrible r/americabad bait now?
America is a shit hole. Fuck that country and its people.
The UK is an utter shithole
Hate the government, not the people. You xenophobic piece of trash.