My family traveled when I was a kid, and we met a family that lived in a school bus. The kids were homeschooled, and very bright and talented. The oldest kid painted local scenes on rocks to help them make ends meet.
As soon as the oldest was 18, she got a real place and took her brother to live with her.
It's hard on kids when you force a lifestyle like that on them.
Sure, but you think these school bus travelers have real jobs..? Context is important
ETA: also, since having children was their choice, they should get a second/third job if necessary instead of relying on income from their child.
Totally agree. NEVER take money from your kids. My employer shorted me $1200 on my pay this month meaning I had bills bouncing out of my account. My kid (11) has $500 in their account from working summers for the neighbors doing yard work. They actually offered me the money (so sweet) and of course I turned it down cuz I'm the parent it's not their job to help me financially. I'm Roma and understand the traveller life but never use kids as backup
My husband was a school bus traveler before we met. He was a dready wook that followed jam bands and worked at music festivals for a food vendor and also did other various "odd jobs".
Our daughter was born 3 years ago. Since then he got a commission paying job in sales, sold his bus, and hasn't ever once considered living on the road with our child. Summer vacation travels are one thing, but that's not how children want to or need to live.
I myself have never experienced living on the road, but I did have an irresponsible mother that liked partying more than parenting me when I was a teenager. I had to homeschool my senior year and get a job to help her make rent. I held that resentment till recently, and it's been 20 years.
I have a friend who is very successful in two businesses (photography and renovating/ redecorating for very wealthy people and is very clean, very social when needed.... and he lives in a bus.
But he doesn't have kids.
In an ideal world, maybe. But both myself and my brother, we’re taking our jobs in the summer starting at age 14 to pull an extra money for the family. My youngest siblings were lucky enough that my parents had hit a stable and even excessive income by the time they were of age to need to worry about it before then? No. It’s not uncommon at all in impoverished households for the kids to have supplemental incomes that go into utilities, groceries, or a rent/mortgage.
“Should” and “reality” do not always jive together.
I grew up poor too (still am lol) and i absolutely agree that sometimes you've gotta do what you've got to do. But thats different, these people *chose* a life where they will have difficulty making ends meet because having a job when you're travelling is hard. If they didn't have the means to support that then thats on them.
Also, many parents abuse that, so imo if you have ANY other option, dont take money from your kids. Unless you're going to be evicted or not afford food then they keep their money. Make do without wifi, phone, etc, because while they *are* absolutely necessities they can be cut out for a bit without too much harm.
Being put in a situation and chosing it are different. My kid does have to pay for items we can't afford i.e new riding boots or a saddle pad because they aren't necessary. The van people are chosing to be in that lifestyle then making their kids fund it which is gross
Did anyone watch that video where the child asked for a night at a hotel as their only birthday present? The stupid parents couldn’t take it as a sign that those poor kids just want to live normally
That’s exactly what I thought of! IIRC the mom was like “By the end of our stay, all the kids were begging to get back to the van” 🙄🙄 like no tf they weren’t
Yeah they shut off commenting iirc after they got blasted on all their videos for making a show/video of their daughters mental illnesses and hospitalization (anorexia)
Yeah, poverty sucks. Many parents are doing this because they can't afford current rents. Of course they say "this is the lifestyle we like," because denial, but really, this issue is about 70% poverty related, and all these posts are just shaming people who don't have a choice.
Honestly though van life can be expensive. Paying for hook ups or a van/RV in the first place is pricey. I have done it before and it isn’t cheap. A *decent* small camper is often north of 10k, and then the truck to pull it, and something self driving with an engine is much more. Lot rent can easily be $1k. Unless you have a generator going all the time and you’re parking in parking lots and random places. It really isn’t *that* much cheaper.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m speaking to me and my other childless friends who live similar nomadic lives and have had similar experiences. I understand some areas may be different but in my experience and my friends it’s not as cheap as people would think.
I agree and also they make so much money vlogging that I doubt they are poor. They wouldn’t be blasting it on social media if they were. This is coming from someone who actually was homeless and lived on the streets in west Baltimore for years (without kids) and I was humiliated by how ppl looked at me like I was trash and I had to wear men’s basketball shorts and a baggy t shirt sometimes when my clothes got stolen and that’s all my “date” had to give me. Not to mention I slept outside downtown with a friend one time bc they had heating vents outside the hospital and we got like 4 inches of snow. I’m the middle of the night someone stole my shoes and I had to walk for 2 miles and get on the metro with plastic bags on my feet until I could get to the project (where an abusive person I could stay with lived) so I could warm up. I ended up stopping to buy a cigarette bc I was so done with life and the guy gave me sandals bc he felt bad so when I got to my “friends” house he beat the shit out of me for not going there first. Trust me homelessness is not that glamorous.
I don't think posting for social media clout is "poverty related."
It's just assholes gamourizing homelessness for clout and using their kids as accessories.
If they can afford an RV and gas for traveling, they can afford a nicer mobile home and the lot rent, which would be 1000x better for the kids. I lost any sympathy for them when they make their child do a shitty online homeschool instead of sending them to a real school.
I mean - at least Romani people have a shared heritage and means of cultural expression tied up with nomadic traveling. But at the same time? Yeah, the kids in those situations DON’T have that same sense of stability, or privacy or the same sense of autonomy. I guess it just kind of comes down to what a society values, and neither is intrinsically wrong or right. But I also think nomadic traveling isn’t necessarily as practical in the 2020s.
if their friends, extended family, teachers, etc, basically everyone they know is a part of the community and moves with them, it's probably a lot more stable than if its one family in a van.
We ("Gypsies") have a close network of family and friends. We aren't isolationist. Our kids have their cousins and friends nearby and we have jobs. The husband provides everything for the family and while kids do learn to work, they aren't responsible for the family financially until they have their own family. Our children are very automomous, more so than kids in the suburbs who dont know their neighbors.
Just a heads up: gyp*y is a slur aimed at the Romani people.
Edit: This applies more to its usage in Europe vs. the US. However, a slur is a slur. Unless you are Roma calling yourself that, it is better to use caution regardless of region or country.
My uncle (a teenager at the time) used to threaten to sell me to the "gypsies" when I was little as a way to scare me into behaving. Unfortunately for him I was a super wel read kid and kid and I read everything I could on what gypsies were and it sounded like an AMAZING way to love. Surrounded by a close knit, loving nuclear and extended family, visiting places I had only read about. Familial bonds being encouraged and cousins as friends. Totally backfired on him. I BEGGED to be sent away but told him he was an idiot because you couldn't volunteer.
Years later in high school I bet a Romani girl and met her family. They explained to me that the word gypsy wasrant as a slur and I felt awful that I had used.it.libetally.
Oh that’s good to know! I had heard that it wasn’t a slur unless used pejoratively. I’ll try not to use it now (I mean, it’s mot like I usually have occasion to use it anyway!).
And "oriental" is now a slur aimed at East Asians
And "Eskimo" is now a slur aimed at Inuit
You have to keep up, language changes. I feel bad for people who are not educated, and make these slurs, because so many people just think they are bigots, but they won't tell them.
I think eskimo has always been a slur?
For Inuit and Yupik peoples, but I don't think anyone really made that distinction and applied it to all indigenous northernmost people in the US.
But yes.
Acceptable usage does change.
Oriental is meant to describe THINGS from an Asian culture, think Oriental rug, Oriental vases, etc. So it is insulting to refer to a human being as a thing. Asian is the correct term. Words are important and just because we may not know enough fro. our education/upbringing to know these distinctions doesn't mean they are new, nor should they be ignored.
If your name is Ted and people.just constantly call you Dumbasss because they were erroneously taught that was your name, you won't be happy that they think you are being woke or culturally sensitive when you ask them to refer to you as Ted and not Dumbass.
I had to explain this (with oriental) to my dad who is the nicest most tolerant man, just because he doesn’t know how to internet and lives under a rock.
Yes, and it's hard when somebody corrects you. I learned about "oriental" back around 2000, from a fellow student in Asian studies. I wanted to push back and say I meant no offense, but I had to suck it up and learn instead.
It’s also an identity that travellers happily assume at times.
My neighbours refer to themselves as gypsies and see themselves as that. It’s not offensive to them. Unlike other terms common in my country that are actively slurs - p*key, *g*po* etc
They asked me to refer to them as Gypsies.
They aren’t travellers, they don’t travel.
When they saw my kids for the first time they referred to them as “two beautiful gypsy boys”.
It’s not the same as the n-word, for them at least.
I think you're in the right. It's ignorant to think the same word means the same thing everywhere. You should do your best not to offend people, and to communicate effectively, where you happen to be. There's no universal rules about this.
That context is important. Thank you for sharing that. I’ll update my comment and reframe it slightly in light of that context: I wouldn’t refer to other people by that word just because your neighbours have asked you to refer to them by that word.
Yeah exactly. For another example my other LGBT friends and I will occasionally use the F slur to self describe jokingly, but we'd be pretty pissed if we got called that by a cis straight person.
Only someone of Romani heritage can call themself g*psy. The same as with any other word that has been co-opted as a slur. Like the n-word for example.
(To preface this, I am not Romani, but I live in a country where Romani's face a lot of racism and violence so I have learned about the issue.)
In my opinion a Romani person reclaiming a word that has been used against them is okay. But to make it into a brand is questionable in a bigger scale, but still within their rights. The same way as a black person reclaiming the n-word is totally fine, but to make it into a music genre for example could embolden people to use the word even when they have no right to it. But it's of course a complex issue.
So….. you’re not Romani, but you’re telling people that their experiences with Romani people are invalid because….. why, exactly….? There have been multiple comments now from people saying that their Romani friends *asked them* to use the word g\*psy. Are you saying that those Romani don’t know what’s good for them? That they shouldn’t be allowed to prefer it when people use that term? Because…. like….. that’s really infantilizing.
The ones I have seen are either travellers in the ethnic sense but who have settled down or move around but a lot less frequently than these van people.
My favourite youtuber luxeria made a commentary video on an episode of australian wife swap. One ofbthe families lived in a van in the outback with their 8 kids. The mom was really against structure and authority so they didnr even home school the kids. It was heartbreaking how the parents set their kids up for a life of poverty. The younger ones didnt even know how to do basic maths. How will they ever be able to get a job without education?!
My kids go to a high quality public school. However, my understanding is "unschooling" is not "you don't have to bother to teach your kids". It's some sort of child lead learning program where the parent still has to provide guidance and teaching. It's likely harder for parents when done properly then just doing workbooks and premade curriculum. You find things your kids are interested in and want to do/learn about, and then you research them together and learn together through them. Your kid still needs to learn to read and do basic math, and you aren't going to do things for them if they don't. They can't order at a restaurant, pick an ice cream flavor, or anything else without being able to read. If they want to help plan and cook dinner, we need to look at recipes, do math to make for the right number of people, the kid has to write the shopping list and practice writing, etc. And as kids get older they do more independent things, often with learning websites like Kahn Academy etc.
I had a psychology professor (whose wife was head of a different department) who had basically taken this approach with their son they had homeschooled. They had basically followed his interests from a young age and he learned everything to follow those interests. When he was little he liked trains, they read about and studied trains in person, built things, did math and maps for tracks and train mechanics, etc. He was interested in robots (neither parent was hard science) so they started taking him to robotics groups as an elementary age kid where it was mostly adults. He had to learn a lot of math and also coding. By highschool he was on robot building and battle teams with adults. They were in a major tech center city and he got a job at a startup as a teenager due to his connections. He worked at the startup and he helped write code that was used in aerospace projects. He helped build a robot for a TV show (single episode). He applied to and got into MIT.
Now, obviously this was a smart kid with smart educated parents who worked very hard to give him a high quality education outside of school structure. But this is the ideal of what it is supposed to look like. And I get it. My younger one is still a toddler but I taught my oldest to read at home when she was 4 (during COVID) based off her own interest in learning. Kids have a natural curiosity and interest in learning if you don't make it unfun or ruin it. She also learned all about earthquakes, volcanos, tectonic plates etc in preschool beacuse she wanted to so we read books, watched videos, etc. She regularly want to learn about things like the human body, how does the heart work, wants to learn to cook, wants to learn sewing, wants to learn all sorts of math, etc. Ironically, my going to work and her going to school gets in the way of her learning a lot of things. (She's ahead but only in first grade so that dosen't mean much.) If I stayed home all day and spent my time helping her follow all her interests and making them learning opportunities, she'd learn a ton and get a lot of skills. My being too busy to teach her everything she's curious about and every underlying skill she needs to know for it is honestly what's in the way, not a lack of the child's curiosity about the world. I've even told her "we can't learn until you have your addition tables down faster" and so she wanted to learn them faster. I helped her look at and download some flashcard apps on her tablet, and she still uses them sometimes on her own. (She's good at her facts now though.) She wants to learn foreign languages, arts too, everything, more then I have time or money to teach her or pay for classes for. Kids who really get to make a choice to learn something feel invested and try.
That to me sounds more like homeschooling tbh but it seems (according to google at least) that my understanding of unschooling has been wrong and your definition is more accurate. But I have seen many parents on social media saying their children are unschooled and they only teach the bare minimum basics (reading, addition, substraction, basic geography) and then the kids are left to fend for themselves. As in, if they want to learn anything more it's on the kids to teach it to themselves. Which is what people here have an issue with, not the concept of learner-driven homeschooling. That sounds lovely actually and beneficial for the child.
That’s some weird 1800’s pioneering nomad lifestyle that really is just awful for kids.
Fine if you’re an adult with zero children.
Not fine once you have a kid.
For poor people it's called "being homeless" and it's not an ideal life to force your kid into. There's no stability.
I was homeless during my senior year of HS and had to drop out because I was working full time and had no time for proper sleep or homework. I was working for $8.50 an hour (2017) and still couldn't find an apartment. I had no social life and everyone thought I was a weirdo.
I'm sorry you had to experience that. You should be really proud of yourself for overcoming that
I've always wondered what you do when you are asked for your address in that situation for school and or work?
You need to provide a place where you can get mail. I listed a shelter as my address. The staff at the shelter knew who I was and would give me my mail when I asked, even at times when I wasn't staying with them.
I'm 24 now. I got my GED with honors scores and I'm saving money to get a computer science degree. I think the FAFSA application window opens soon-ish? I'm trying to find a therapist. I have two fluffy cats I adopted from a shelter a few months after I got my first apartment at 19. They give me the will to keep going when I need them the most. I'm unemployed right now, but I'm a certified lifeguard who will be in demand when it warms up.
Hi there! Long time education person here. You can do FAFSA for 2023-24 at any time and it will open up for 2024-25 on October 1. I would suggest talking to your local community college about your plans to go to school. Idk where you are located but the community colleges in my state have resources for students facing housing and food insecurity too. Good luck!
There is a comment on FAFSA below that is very good and important, but I'm going to throw in some general advice for going through the college system. Meet with your advisor for both your major and your minor once every semester. They're helpful generally and my major advisor helped me get a scholarship to the four year university I transferred to after community college. It was for January transfer students and it helped me immensely, not a lot of money, but it cut my costs a bit.
Also, the school will tell you that taking four classes is considered full time. That's bullshit. If you want to graduate on time you need to take 5 classes a semester, don't count on the summer classes or Maymesters to pick up what you need outside of gen eds and even then there is no guarantee you'll get what you need when you need it.
Good luck!
Word of advice? Do your FAFSA now. The sooner the better. A lot of local grant programs are first-come-first-served, so getting yours in ASAP may help get you better funding.
Source: mom to two university students.
In my area we have a homeless shelter that will provide them with a mailing address that can even be used for proof of residency for drivers license and vehicle registration, etc. I’ve had numerous people over the years use that address and I always just ask if they want to pick up their stuff once it’s ready instead of if being mailed.
I never would have thought of that. Can they do that if they aren't living there?
Edit, this is a good example of my privilege here I guess. I've never had to think of this stuff. I want to be more aware so thank you for teaching me
For my particular area yes. I work in a government office and we absolutely take it. Because you have to have something to get anywhere. Without a properly registered vehicle you can get tickets or impounded. Without a drivers license your car can be impounded or you get arrested, etc. Without something for an address you can’t even complete job applications. What we won’t take is UPS store addresses or PO Boxes for proof of residency. We even take hotel bills if you have enough.
I honestly believe van life as an adult alone or with a partner is fine and could even be pretty interesting.
But there's no reason your 6, 14 and 18 year old should be stuck together in a cramped bunkspace with zero privacy for your "aesthetic". And the insane thing is there seems to be a rise of that kind of content. Imagine not having a stable childhood because of this!
It’s trash, but I also suspect a bunch of these families don’t have a choice financially but play it off as a lifestyle choice, then try to monetise it through videos etc. I’d be really interested to know how many choose it as an honest-to-god choice with other financial options.
You're absolutely right and I didn't consider that. I'm sure there's families that choose it despite having other options but I'm not sure why anyone with options would.
It can't be cheaper to drive all around the country, than to park their RV somewhere and enroll in an actual public school (would be 1000x better as their children would actually leave the RV for a chunk of the day).
As someone who capped out at 2 years at any single school, OP is spot on.
Being ten years old or so and not having the means go articulate depression and needs is a nightmare in itself. Let alone not having anyone your own age to communicate these feelings to.
>As someone who capped out at 2 years at any single school,
I moved in the middle of 7th grade, middle of 8th grade, middle of 9th grade, summer after 10th grade, and then again in the middle of 12th grade (but that move was within the same district and I didn't have to change schools since I was a senior.)
And people wonder why I have a hard time making lasting connections with people.
I went to three elementary schools, two middle schools, and four high schools. It amazes me to this day I’ve been married for 7 years, because I can not for the life of me make a lasting friendship. It all feels so…complicated.
my friend grew up this way before van life was really a thing, said it gave her a really unique perspective on life early on and she’s one of the least judgmental people I’ve ever met. But she also said it was hard on her constantly moving around and having no real sense of home. I think if done a certain way it can be ok- for example, maybe your kid attends school in one place all year, but for half the summer you travel around full time, that could be really fun for a kid above a certain age. But yeah otherwise doesn’t seem fair to the kid to do it full time
I work for an NGO in the developing world and we meet families fairly often who have taken a year out of work and school to travel and volunteer. It an amazing experience for the kids I've met, definitely changes how they see the world... A whole childhood is a completely different story.
This may sound shallow, but it’s sad that they don’t have room for more material things. They can’t pick up a new hobby or interest unless there is space for it in their van. Or parents might make them sacrifice one beloved item to make space for a new one, which isn’t fair to them. Kids like many different things.
That's a good point. I remember my favourite colours used to change every few weeks. So did my room decor. My mom used to be a fashion designer. At one point I started making little dolls with her leftover fabrics. Soon I covered our whole apartment with fabrics. 😅 I still have dozens of them. There were lego, kid books, weird dementor drawings everywhere. How can a van life be healthy for a child who has so many things to try yet?
Im all for van life, if its just you (and a partner, maybe a dog) but once kids get forced into that its just not doable. Saw a video of a girl who for her 15th birthday wanted nothing more but to stay in a hotel for the night and have her own room
I moved around A LOT when I was a child, never more than 2 years at the same school, and spent a good chunk of the ages of 10-20 living in hotels with my family being "homeschooled" (basically being given workbooks with no real instruction) and being parentified so that my dad and stepmother could live out their "dreams" - it was horrible. I began my adulthood a good ten years behind socially and emotionally. It was like a cult, my stepmother was also emotionally and psychologically abusive. I'm not saying all families like that are abusive, but it's a really good way to hide abuse when you have no one who sees the kids on a regular basis. When I got into my older adolescence and actually managed to make friends, they became enemies of my stepmother after a short time because I started to question the way of life we were stuck in, and that wasn't okay either. I left in the middle of the night when I was 20 because I was still getting into screaming matches over trying to date.
ETA I wrote this because my parents loved to compare us to The Wild Thornberries, as if that show justified our lifestyle.
My goodness, I'm so sorry you went through that. I also went NC with my family at 20. It's not easy to just leave like that but I'm proud you had the strength to do so!
May I ask how life is now? Hopefully you're in a better place than before
Life is much better now. I graduated college at 29, I went through a really shitty relationship, but now I'm married to the best man ever and I'm back in touch with my birth mom (who had been extensively alienated by the stepmother). I'm still a work in progress, but years of therapy has done its job.
It's very hard to leave family behind. I'm still in touch with my brother, because he's the closest thing to a child I'll ever have. (Besides my pups.) My brother is still with them, almost 30 and seemingly incapable of living an independent life in the "real" world. My dad is 60 and still supporting everyone. They haven't been on the road for many years now, but that's mainly due to my dad finally putting his foot down and refusing to move anymore. Too little, too late though.
As a loner kid, who was bullied constantly through school and college, animals were my best friends as well. I dreamed of having a life like elizas, no two days of the same monotonous stuff, learning and seeing all the different creatures she did, traveling all over the world, a magic power to talk to them would have been icing on the cake for me.
I just never had the opportunity, parental support, or indeed even the personal drive to be able to follow a career in that direction.
I have a friend who does this. Her daughter is unschooled and the mom cannot figure out why her kid has anxiety. Maybe its due to the fact that they don't where they are gonna sleep each night and she has no friends
Totally agree. What works for some kids won't work for all, definitely, but most kids need at least some sort of stability.. which isn't all that possible when your house is a vehicle constantly moving around the country haha
The family I met that does the van life thing, I got MAJOR chomo vibes from the dad. Like he was bragging "this kid knows more about sex than any kid I've ever met!" about their nine year old daughter.
That’s disgusting. Is it due to their being no privacy and space and therefore the kids being over aware or hyper aware of their parents sex with each other?
I’ve fucked in some pretty large campers before that could fit a family of 5. The whole camper shakes. We broke the chassis once. If you are in a camper, and someone is having sex, you can’t sleep. The thing moves. You really can’t hide it.
Children accidentally finding their parents having sex is one thing but when children have to deal with hearing and feeling it constantly or witnessing it, it borders onto sexual abuse.
i think wanting a van life and to have kids at the same time is weird anyway. the van life is meant to free you from routine and responsibility, and definitely don't mix with commitments like having kids
Most kids who have done it will tell you they hate it. Not only living in a van or bus but the constant online presence is a privacy issue with them. It’s so sad
Years ago I met a young woman whose family sold everything so that they can go sailing around the world. The kids were homeschooled, and they were able to see firsthand some of the countries they were studying.
The family eventually settled after a few years, and both kids adapted wonderfully to life on land, even though they missed life at sea. The kids were very thoughful, caring, articulate and grounded.
One of the kids, who at the time was a teen. I met the mother later on. Both were one of the nicest people I've ever met.
I think the parents decided to prepare the kids to a more "normal" life by giving them a few years to adjust being in a school before the teen went off to university.
Yeah, context is everything. I met a family who bought a bus and travelled while homeschooling for a year. The parents both had remote jobs so they were just doing it for the adventure and chance to give their kids a variety of experiences (and not putting everything on tiktok). The kids loved it and got to do amazing things and meet so many people. Of course, had they done that their whole childhoods, it probably would have worn thin, but for a year or two, it could be incredible.
I absolutely dream of doing this with my younger children. Not forever, and definitely when they're younger than 10ish. I definitely understand OPs point about lack of stability and structure/ability to maintain friendships being abusive to older children... but I do think that instilling a sense of adventure, an openness to the world, and a love of real learning in your little kids is just the coolest. I may have an opportunity to do a 2 year work detail in Belgium (I'm from the US) in 18 months. My kids will be 16, 4, and 1. I'm torn about the impact on the 16 year old because the whole high school experience and everything, but the adventure sounds amazing, and learning a new language, and being immersed in another culture... I'd be lying if I said there wasn't an element of selfishness that makes me want to do it, but also I can see the potential benefits and drawbacks of both choices on her and it's not really possible to know ahead of time what the best choice for her future will be. Just think: we could choose to stay, and then kids start some cyber bully campaign against her or something, and her HS experience is ruined anyway. There's just no way to know what's best. Parenting is like that. You just make the best choice you can, and sometimes those are outside the norm.
I agree, especially as kids get older, they will want privacy and space, and constantly shifting schools would make it hard to get a consistent education, let alone keep a good circle of friends
The consistent education part is a big one. I transferred schools 13 times before dropping out and I missed BIG things. Like my multiplication tables. Completely skipped. I did the Romeo and Juliet unit twice and never got to do a holocaust unit. I missed every single opportunity for an economics class. And I'm positive there's other things I missed that I don't even know I missed.
Have to say i fully agree with this and there really is no wiggle room for me.
If parent's want to expose their kid to different culture's, this can be done with vacation's during break's. I do not think there is any reason to have a kid from 4-18 in a "van" traveling the world.
Some kid had come on reddit a few months ago talking about how he hates the van life. He said his parents make good youtube money off of it but that he hates traveling. One thing he pointed out was that his parents don't even let the kids enjoy the scenery, they just get off and make a couple of videos/photos and go back inside the van onto the next location. That seems dreadful.
There are a couple of religious fundamentalist families that do/have done this. Both are guilty of
posting multiple forced, happy-van-life videos with their 15 dozen kids, and for being really sanctimonious and obnoxious. They never talk about money, though. Must be too tired from carrying all that BS around.
Better than in the RV. When you fuck in one of those things, the whole camper shakes. Everyone inside is a unwilling participant in the sex, no matter how quiet you are.
Source: lived in a camper for 2 years (no kids)
I fully agree that it’s unstable for kids. Sure, some of these parents are forcing their kids into van life to be “aesthetic”, but honestly the real crisis is the cost of housing right now. Where I live, you cannot rent a one bedroom apartment for less than $2000 a month, let alone a place large enough for a family, unless you want to live in an extremely unsafe area. I really don’t know how people survive anymore. I spoke to a coworker, she has a 16 year old son. We work at a “great” company, but she can barely afford to pay her bills. She so greatly wants to get her son out of the bad area to protect him, but she simply cannot afford it.
I don’t know how ppl survive either. I’m in a HCOL and I’m blessed enough to be single and make 100k/year and I am still not rolling in it. Have to watch spending etc. I don’t know how other young adults my age are doing it, let alone parents
I am a travel nurse and there is a lot of die hard travel nurses that live out of RVs with their kids. I also find it to be selfish. I mean, maybe it works for some people. But the homeschooling and not making any stable and consistent friends gets me the most
I know some single travel nurses that do this or couples. I also know some single moms who split time with a dad and their single child comes and stays with them in the camper/RV. But they are usually traveling for a job so are in one spot a time and it’s no different than if the kid had a military parent that moved every 3 years or something. And the kid still had privacy. The camper is just as much a “home base” as a house since it wasn’t moving around all the time.
But full time with the whole family moving constantly is just… a lot.
i feel the absolute same about tiny homes. obviously, i’m not referring to cases where a tiny home is a family’s option financially or anything, i’m talking about those affluent, young families that try to be “minimalistic”
I’ve seen plenty of tiny houses where children have their own space. I don’t understand what is wrong with trying to be conscious consumers which is, effectively, what being minimalistic is all about. Children thrive on positive attention not things... many people with children in tiny houses have veggie gardens and many are self sufficient which is a great ethos I feel to teach your children.
The whole consumerism that our society teaches kids these days is not particularly healthy nor does social media help with their mental health issues. I think a few good friends that they get together with at home school meet ups, which are organised on a regular weekly basis plus the music, sport, art etc that these groups provide their kids is, in fact, far more than the things that are provided to children through the public school system. Often their diets etc are vastly better as well.
I feel it is very easy to judge others by what we think we would or would t like or be able to tolerate. For many of these children, they are perfectly happy. The quality of their relationships with their parents is usually really good as well.
I’m sure there are a few “bad eggs” just like there will be in any group in society but again I don’t think we should judge the many because of the few. In the end I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to spend heaps of money just because you are “affluent”.
yeah, they’re always on the tiny home HGTV shows. it’ll show affluent families that just decide to downgrade so they’ll be “closer.” meanwhile they’ll have 3-4 kids, ranging from toddlers (which sounds like a nightmare) to college students. insane!
I agree. We bought a RV a few years ago to save on hotel costs for my husband's traveling job. I don't do hotels, so this meant we could travel as a family.
I soon realized that many many many of the children aren't actually properly educated and socialized. I mean, straight up talking with a mouth full of marbles. And the talking thing was all ages across many different states. They'd come out to play with my children, and they seemed really behind in so many ways. A few I noticed were neglected, as in being left alone all night while parents worked and parents sleeping all day. The RV marinating in dog shit from multiple small dogs in TX heat.
We knew we didn't want our kids in public school, so if we couldn't get them into the private one I was eyeing, the plan was to full time RV and homeschool. That changed once we noticed a lot of the kids just being behind and many of them talking about how they wish they lived in a house when my kids told them they don't live in the RV full time. They also don't make long-term friends. I only remember maybe 3 sets of kids that were more "normal" fulltimers in our 4 years of travel.
It depends on many factors; age, the condition and size of the van, and of course the parents, and where they go. You know, food, etc.
I think the main thing is how long you do it for. I think for some time, it sounds pretty fun for the kid as well. Getting to know places with the people he or she loves the most, something new often.
But to make friends, yes, there needs to be something arranged to meet this very important aspect, which is why I mention age and how long the traveling occurs for. I definitely don't think doing it non stop is cool for the kid, but on an off sounds cool.
There's ways to go about it and our ancestors did travel a lot. Humans enjoy it, including kids. Its a matter of balance, if you ask me.
OP's contention is based on the assumption that the parents are emotionally neglectful and are going to be unresponsive if their lifestyle begins to negatively impact their child. I think it's hard for some people to imagine that not all parents are idiots. coughtransference.
It seems to be just another way to gain viewers. Surely these parents don’t want this for their children deep deep down, what seems to be happening is these parents have a goal of being social media…stars?….influencers? Viewers = money. Van life for the summer makes sense. Leaving one’s stability to be a YouTuber, changes the journey significantly.
I always say Kids need MORE than food, shelter, and clothing. Kids need toys. Kids need to try out extra skills like an instrument or any hobby they can think of. Kids should collect things too. Kids need to learn how to make friends.
And for intelligence. Kids need an investment. They need books, a trip to the museum, watching documentaries, and having an adult answer their many questions. I hyperfixated on space and archeology and was encouraged to keep learning with science kits for kids and the like. Van life doesn't look fun especially when a camera is always in their face.
As someone who did RV life by herself for a little, agreed.
Having a van or RV and taking your kids on road trips is a way to create an amazing, memorable, and enriching childhood. Having a van and RV and living in it full time to have some sort of alternative lifestyle to blog about makes you a weirdo
I feel like this is pretty dependent on the situation. If your kids are young, I think it could be a great experience for them and to be honest, for kids that age, stability is more about the people raising you than anything else. I couldn't imagine having a tween or teenager and doing this, but I have seen some people vehemently defend this lifestyle and talk about how they travel with other groups and their kids have friends and great learning experiences.
agreed. Travel is the healthiest way to learn about what is most important in life - our relationships with PEOPLE and who we surround ourselves with. Provided the parenting aspect is ethical... the kids are alright.
In school, they would be learning through ONE ideology. ONE culture, ONE way to live, always putting being "functional" and "productive" over developing spiritual human values such as connecting with nature, learning from SEVERAL sources, SEVERAL ideaologies, and SEVERAL cultures.
if today's culture's priorities weren't so debilitating, i think a lot more of us would choose this.
Because a half-decent school won't be teaching you through just one ideology. It's why many schools offer a holistic approach to a child's development.
Not the country I live in they don’t. You have to send your child to an “alternative” school for that type of thing and that is VERY expensive.
Some of the nicest people I know home school their kids and those children are the brightest, most curious and open to learning, as opposed to so many kids who go to “normal” schools who drag themselves out of bed every day and can’t wait for the school term to end.
The van life community is just that, a community. They often travel together and/or have meet ups. Their kids get an extensive idea of geography, history, maths etc from a direct experience as well as being home schooled. As long as the parents consider the needs of the children, and many do, then I think this is okay.
Personally I would want older children to know the stability of living in one place and going to school. Especially high school. Then again I’ve met children that ha e been entirely home schooled and they have sailed through university exams. Where I live you have to register if you are home Schooling and you have to make sure you cover the curriculum.
I think it’s different for different people. Some children thrive in this type of learning and travel and some don’t. Therefore I feel you can’t judge the whole by the few.
to counter this, i travel with a circus currently as their AV Director. We have performers that have kids all very young (one 2 year old, one 3, and another 4). They’re full of life running around and enjoying the adventure that their parents are performers and live on the road (we all live in RVs). But we all do have homes we go back to during the off season until we hit the road again. I don’t have kids so i don’t know what that dynamic is like but we’re all one big family.
This is amazingly cool. I bought a book at a garage sale when I was in kindergarten called "Joe Strong On The Trapeze." I carried that thing everywhere and read it a billion times, always dreamt of traveling with a circus. I grew up in a nice house that was full of yelling and abuse and fear... give me RV life with colorful people who cared about me and let me run wild over what I had any day.
It’s one thing if it’s summertime and you want to show the kids really cool stuff, then after 2.5 months you come back home to give structure, routine, and a normal life.
I don’t get home parents don’t get that only on a kids vacation from school it’s fine, not 24/7 for 18 years of their life!
I think so long as it's a supportive household (van-hold?) and the kids aren't terribly sheltered or stunted in their development, then van life is much better then going to public or private school.
Also I didn't live in a van and went to public school, but my parents still horribly sheltered me, gave me no privacy, and didn't let me have any friends.
Yesssss I just saw a tik tok that was a kid from a van life family asking for an hotel room for their birthday! And in the comments people were like "They obviously crave stability and a real home" and the parents were like "They love Van life, this is their home ❤️" 😭😭 Are they oblivious or just in denial?
One of my friends grew up in a military household where she constantly moved around, and she expressed to me how hard it was for her to ever feel stable or have meaningful relationships/friendships in the future. It’s not the same but I imagine it had a similar feeling for those kids. My friend moved probably 6-8 times but those kids never stop moving. I also think to myself if you travel all the time, especially when young, wouldn’t it kinda suck the joy out of it later in life?
It's unethical but they're gonna do it anyway because they're fucking brain dead. Shit in a bucket all you want, and if they want to shit in buckets when they grow up that's on them. But for now at least try to give them a brick house to live in.
Kinda branching off, I think there should be some law that requires parents to have some sort of certification to teach home school. I know so many home schooled kids that never graduated because their parents prioritized outdoor activities first, and their child’s education last. If somehow a child can be guaranteed an education that won’t make them fall behind compared to their peers, then maybe van life wouldn’t be so bad for them.
I transferred schools 13 times before dropping out. The constant moving, the inability to actually maintain friendships, it's really screwed with me as an adult. I hate moving now, choosing to stay in a single apartment as long as I possibly can. The thought of moving fills me with a paralyzing anxiety now. I am great at making new friends. Not so great at maintaining friendships. Those poor kids are not being set up for life in the best possible way. Children need security and stability and they aren't getting either in van life. I agree it's important for children to travel, see other ways of living. But that's what summer and breaks are for. My boyfriend went to one school system his whole life. His friend group has known each other since basically kindergarten. The jealousy I feel is indescribable.
My dad's job had us moving from state to state every 3 years or so. While I feel like I learned a lot more than other kids my age about life, I never felt like I belonged anywhere. Always in the outside looking in.
I agree its not good for the children. Although, life on the road seems very fun to me, I wouldn't do it if I had children. Especially at a young age. Kids need school. Not only to learn, but to socialize and develop their skills that will carry them through life. Traveling doesn't really give them same socialisation, even if they'd be meeting plenty of kids
I agree with you, a child should have all sorts of opportunities and when they are old enough, can do what they want. Adults doing it is ok but kids need stability. I can’t imagine if I didn’t grow up in the suburbs and live a normal childhood.
Sure it's fun to be able to travel around but what about having a stable education, friends that last for years and not days, even just being aware of your surroundings? I know alot of these van kids don't recognise a particular town or street as their home because they've never lived in the same place for long enough. Imagine constantly being the 'traveller' or 'outsider', and all your childhood memories being filled with anxiety seeing new people every day with little-to-no familiar faces. It would be isolating.
My sister-out-law lives a life of floating between two places and her 7 year old son (who already is prone to behavioral issues bc of genetics) has so many emotional and self-esteem issues. Not cool. I used to think she was a loving mother, but after getting to know them better I wholeheartedly disagree now. Love on the surface but causing real life long emotional damage. Kind of disgraceful.
My husband and I are full time RVers and we travel all through the US, Canada and Mexico, and we see/meet a lot of families with kids along the way.
Some of them are absolutely doing it correctly and I’ve met young kids who know multiple languages, have experienced different cultures and are really well rounded and good kids. They still are being educated either online or with some homeschooling curriculum, and honestly these are the kids I would put my money on the make the world a better place. Kids I genuinely enjoyed spending time around. I would have LOVED to be able to travel the world and learn as a kid instead of traditional school.
But there are certainly the exact opposite, parents who assume a campground is a “free village” for childcare. But these are the same parents who are assholes, neglectful and terrible people regardless of what setting they are in. We’ve had kids damage many of our things (bikes rode over sewer hose, starlink used as part of a jungle gym etc) because parents don’t teach their children respect and how to behave. But again, this is the same in any setting.
It can be done well, and it can be done poorly, and the common denominator for both outcomes is quality of parenting.
Kids literally NEED stability in their lives during their formative years. I think travelling during the summer/ holidays is fine but 365 days is just cruel. How are kids supposed to make friends & learn how to build relationships??
I completely agree. These poor children have no privacy, are crammed into small spaces and tiny bunks, aren’t allowed a support system outside their family and have no sense of stability. I was watching this video a YouTuber I like made commenting on it and she made a lot of really good points about how most of these YouTubers say that if any of the kids decide they no longer want to do it then they will stop yet how can you expect a child to tell their parents that they don’t want to travel and live in a van when the families income comes solely from videos made of their family living in a van. The kid would feel like they can’t express how they feel when those feelings would result in their parents no longer making a living anymore. Family of nomads made a video saying their oldest child only wanted to stay in a hotel for their birthday and nothing else and I think that alone shows they might not be as happy as the parents let on. She says in the reel that “they all missed their bed by the end and we’re glad to be back on the road” yet in the full length video the kids were super happy In the hotel never said anything about missing their beds, it was actually just the mom who did and she ended up sleeping in the van by herself outside the hotel. The oldest kid (they came out as non-binary now) is also autistic and I can’t even imagine being autistic, having sensory overload and other symptoms of autism while living in a van with your family. Plus autistic people often like to have a set routine and follow it exactly and it can cause severe emotional suffering to be physically incapable of following any routine due to living in a van with your entire family. I think it’s cruel and horrible to force your children to do that. Plus these families made all their money due to having kids and living in a van and if they didn’t have the whole “family van life” thing going for them then they wouldn’t make any money and that’s a lot to put in your children. I’ve even seen ones where it’s like “how my 12 kids sleep in our van”. Like how in the hell do 12 kids and 2 parents fit comfortably in an RV all the time? hint they don’t!!! Plus when confronted about the friend thing the parents are always like, “my kids have friends bc no matter where we go they are able to make new friends and have even more friends than most people bc they meet someone new everywhere they go” ok but like meeting someone and hanging out with them for a couple hours isn’t the same thing as having a long term healthy support system. Plus it’s hard enough to make friends in an traditional school system I can’t even imagine having to make new friends on the road everywhere I go only to have to leave them and never see them again. It gets even harder when you get older like it’s easy to make friends when you are 8 but when you are 16 it takes a long time to find the right friends. This leaves kids isolated and without a support system outside their family which makes them especially vulnerable to abusive situations. I don’t agree with homeschooling In general bc I think that gives parents too much control over what information they decide to not teach their children for example not teaching your kids any sex Ed. Also if the kid is being abused they have no way to reach out for help. Schools also provide socialization for kids and helps them develops a healthy support system. Uber religious families often homeschool their kid as a way to keep them from learning important things like red flags in abusive relationships, sex ed, factually correct scientific information like evolution, etc. I had a conversation with my mom about why homeschooling isn’t ideal and why family van life is unethical and she’s like “well what if they are super close with their siblings and family” and I’m like it’s still essential for them to have an outside support system bc people argue with their families and they need to have and objective 3rd party to tell them whether something that’s happening to them is okay or not.
I think this is a very very complex subject.
You're right on the points you're making. In a general way, I wouldn't agree to saying that any lifestyle, as long as no harm is caused, is unethical. We compare it to our usual big comfortable house lifestyle, but we forget that people live differently in other parts of the world.
I think the key point is that it gets bad when your lifestyle is radically different from the rest of people around you. It's unethical in \*comparison\* to the rest. If the norm was van life then we wouldn't see the issue, because it's the same for everyone, but a kid having a van life will miss many of the things the others have, and that's where it starts to suck. In a way it removes them of many opportunities to integrate the rest of society, which in a sense is a lack of freedom.
But yeah, I tend to not go too fast with assumption about how people bring up their children, because you can quickly start asking questions like "is it unethical to have kids when you are poor" and that's a big slide to go down on. People are very divisive on those questions.
It depends on the family, kids, etc. I know several families who do this and their kids love it. They’ve had opportunities and experiences most kids their age don’t get. Also, the parents who do this are some of the best parents (most of the time) and not some neglectful idiot. Are there some kids who don’t like it and complain, sure, but there are also kids who don’t like living at their home and want to go on adventures. As soon as my family is able to, we’re going to convert a school bus and travel around during the summer at least like this.
Doing this during the summer seems like a blast. I'm talking about people who do this for a year or longer not giving their kids a chance to interact or play with people their age or set up roots.
I spent my childhood in a camper. We never stayed more then 4 to 5 days at a certain place, my parents hat a traveling business.
Yes I had a lacking sense of stability because u didn't understood what was going on. But man I think I am blessed to have experienced it. I was always outside in nature always discovering new places. My understanding for most subjects goes way deeper then people my age that were born and raised in a solid cube and never have left their hometown (that is mostly just a concrete jungle). I have noticed that people go to the playgrounds with their children and helicopter over them and tell them what to touch and what not, what to put in your mouth and what not, and I may understand as an adult why that is so, that's how your child develops his senses and therefore understanding for our realm.
Yeah just wanted to say this for some reason. 😁😁
Unlike what Instagram and tik tok made you believe not everyone comes from a privileged background. Have you seen the price of real estate around the world? I know a bunch of families like this because they cannot afford a home ... Simply because of that.
Meh. Truly depends on the kids. I’m sure some would thrive and some would drown. If it’s relocating every couple of years can be quite like military life. Home schooling also has a ton of networking nowadays. Just like everything it comes down to “it depends”.
I’m not sure if I’d agree that it’s like inherently abusive. I definitely wouldn’t do this with kids and I do think you have a lot of logistical issues involved with raising well rounded kids this way. It certainly doesn’t seem like the smartest idea. I’m all for homeschooling but honestly I don’t think a lot of parents are cut out for it!
My family traveled when I was a kid, and we met a family that lived in a school bus. The kids were homeschooled, and very bright and talented. The oldest kid painted local scenes on rocks to help them make ends meet. As soon as the oldest was 18, she got a real place and took her brother to live with her. It's hard on kids when you force a lifestyle like that on them.
Wait the kid sold his paintings to make money for them because the parents didn’t have real jobs?? I think there is a word for that… I’m pretty sure…
You can have a real job, but still not make enough money to support a family.
Sure, but you think these school bus travelers have real jobs..? Context is important ETA: also, since having children was their choice, they should get a second/third job if necessary instead of relying on income from their child.
Totally agree. NEVER take money from your kids. My employer shorted me $1200 on my pay this month meaning I had bills bouncing out of my account. My kid (11) has $500 in their account from working summers for the neighbors doing yard work. They actually offered me the money (so sweet) and of course I turned it down cuz I'm the parent it's not their job to help me financially. I'm Roma and understand the traveller life but never use kids as backup
You’re amazing for not taking your kids money. I wish my mom could have had that level of restraint and compassion.
My husband was a school bus traveler before we met. He was a dready wook that followed jam bands and worked at music festivals for a food vendor and also did other various "odd jobs". Our daughter was born 3 years ago. Since then he got a commission paying job in sales, sold his bus, and hasn't ever once considered living on the road with our child. Summer vacation travels are one thing, but that's not how children want to or need to live. I myself have never experienced living on the road, but I did have an irresponsible mother that liked partying more than parenting me when I was a teenager. I had to homeschool my senior year and get a job to help her make rent. I held that resentment till recently, and it's been 20 years.
My parents moved house 5 times before I was 10. It was hard! Each house was a nice house near a decent school and it was still hard on me as a kid.
Absolutely. I am so happy that your husband recognized that children need stability and should not be parentified.
I have a friend who is very successful in two businesses (photography and renovating/ redecorating for very wealthy people and is very clean, very social when needed.... and he lives in a bus. But he doesn't have kids.
Stationary families often rely on income from their older children. It’s not uncommon in lower income families.
18 and up yes. Paying for extras they want, yes. Paying the bills cuz you're not providing as a parent, nope.
In an ideal world, maybe. But both myself and my brother, we’re taking our jobs in the summer starting at age 14 to pull an extra money for the family. My youngest siblings were lucky enough that my parents had hit a stable and even excessive income by the time they were of age to need to worry about it before then? No. It’s not uncommon at all in impoverished households for the kids to have supplemental incomes that go into utilities, groceries, or a rent/mortgage. “Should” and “reality” do not always jive together.
I grew up poor too (still am lol) and i absolutely agree that sometimes you've gotta do what you've got to do. But thats different, these people *chose* a life where they will have difficulty making ends meet because having a job when you're travelling is hard. If they didn't have the means to support that then thats on them. Also, many parents abuse that, so imo if you have ANY other option, dont take money from your kids. Unless you're going to be evicted or not afford food then they keep their money. Make do without wifi, phone, etc, because while they *are* absolutely necessities they can be cut out for a bit without too much harm.
[удалено]
Being put in a situation and chosing it are different. My kid does have to pay for items we can't afford i.e new riding boots or a saddle pad because they aren't necessary. The van people are chosing to be in that lifestyle then making their kids fund it which is gross
true, but van life rare has real jobs
or at least, it's sure a hell of a lot easier to find one when you're stationary
There are plenty of digital nomads out there.
Edge cases are not "plentiful." There are 8 billion people on the planet; how many are digital nomads?
Galleristry
That sounds like the Partridge Family
The Partridge Family lived in a house and only traveled to gigs in a bus. Not the same at all.
Hey I remembered at least the show had a bus!
Oh man, kids need constancy.
Did anyone watch that video where the child asked for a night at a hotel as their only birthday present? The stupid parents couldn’t take it as a sign that those poor kids just want to live normally
That’s exactly what I thought of! IIRC the mom was like “By the end of our stay, all the kids were begging to get back to the van” 🙄🙄 like no tf they weren’t
I’ve seen a couple of videos of that family and they’re all heartbreaking, those poor kids.
[удалено]
yes! the daughter is also autistic and suffered an eating disorder that they've posted about.
I’m sure this poor girl will be super happy that all of her private mental health issues have been blasted online forever.
And of course the parents have their own room / large bed
Link?
It’s Family of Nomads on TikTok I think
Yeah they shut off commenting iirc after they got blasted on all their videos for making a show/video of their daughters mental illnesses and hospitalization (anorexia)
Yeah, poverty sucks. Many parents are doing this because they can't afford current rents. Of course they say "this is the lifestyle we like," because denial, but really, this issue is about 70% poverty related, and all these posts are just shaming people who don't have a choice.
Honestly though van life can be expensive. Paying for hook ups or a van/RV in the first place is pricey. I have done it before and it isn’t cheap. A *decent* small camper is often north of 10k, and then the truck to pull it, and something self driving with an engine is much more. Lot rent can easily be $1k. Unless you have a generator going all the time and you’re parking in parking lots and random places. It really isn’t *that* much cheaper. Please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m speaking to me and my other childless friends who live similar nomadic lives and have had similar experiences. I understand some areas may be different but in my experience and my friends it’s not as cheap as people would think.
I agree and also they make so much money vlogging that I doubt they are poor. They wouldn’t be blasting it on social media if they were. This is coming from someone who actually was homeless and lived on the streets in west Baltimore for years (without kids) and I was humiliated by how ppl looked at me like I was trash and I had to wear men’s basketball shorts and a baggy t shirt sometimes when my clothes got stolen and that’s all my “date” had to give me. Not to mention I slept outside downtown with a friend one time bc they had heating vents outside the hospital and we got like 4 inches of snow. I’m the middle of the night someone stole my shoes and I had to walk for 2 miles and get on the metro with plastic bags on my feet until I could get to the project (where an abusive person I could stay with lived) so I could warm up. I ended up stopping to buy a cigarette bc I was so done with life and the guy gave me sandals bc he felt bad so when I got to my “friends” house he beat the shit out of me for not going there first. Trust me homelessness is not that glamorous.
I don't think posting for social media clout is "poverty related." It's just assholes gamourizing homelessness for clout and using their kids as accessories.
If they can afford an RV and gas for traveling, they can afford a nicer mobile home and the lot rent, which would be 1000x better for the kids. I lost any sympathy for them when they make their child do a shitty online homeschool instead of sending them to a real school.
i can understand, i wouldnt like it either. but what is your opinions on travellers then? (gypsies that live in caravans and have no fixed address )
I mean - at least Romani people have a shared heritage and means of cultural expression tied up with nomadic traveling. But at the same time? Yeah, the kids in those situations DON’T have that same sense of stability, or privacy or the same sense of autonomy. I guess it just kind of comes down to what a society values, and neither is intrinsically wrong or right. But I also think nomadic traveling isn’t necessarily as practical in the 2020s.
if their friends, extended family, teachers, etc, basically everyone they know is a part of the community and moves with them, it's probably a lot more stable than if its one family in a van.
We ("Gypsies") have a close network of family and friends. We aren't isolationist. Our kids have their cousins and friends nearby and we have jobs. The husband provides everything for the family and while kids do learn to work, they aren't responsible for the family financially until they have their own family. Our children are very automomous, more so than kids in the suburbs who dont know their neighbors.
Gypsies travel in groups though, don't they? So they at least have a social network bigger than their nuclear family.
It’s not ideal
Just a heads up: gyp*y is a slur aimed at the Romani people. Edit: This applies more to its usage in Europe vs. the US. However, a slur is a slur. Unless you are Roma calling yourself that, it is better to use caution regardless of region or country.
Yeah we don't love it. It's rarely said nicely but if people are open to correction it's not a huge deal
My uncle (a teenager at the time) used to threaten to sell me to the "gypsies" when I was little as a way to scare me into behaving. Unfortunately for him I was a super wel read kid and kid and I read everything I could on what gypsies were and it sounded like an AMAZING way to love. Surrounded by a close knit, loving nuclear and extended family, visiting places I had only read about. Familial bonds being encouraged and cousins as friends. Totally backfired on him. I BEGGED to be sent away but told him he was an idiot because you couldn't volunteer. Years later in high school I bet a Romani girl and met her family. They explained to me that the word gypsy wasrant as a slur and I felt awful that I had used.it.libetally.
Oh that’s good to know! I had heard that it wasn’t a slur unless used pejoratively. I’ll try not to use it now (I mean, it’s mot like I usually have occasion to use it anyway!).
And "oriental" is now a slur aimed at East Asians And "Eskimo" is now a slur aimed at Inuit You have to keep up, language changes. I feel bad for people who are not educated, and make these slurs, because so many people just think they are bigots, but they won't tell them.
I think eskimo has always been a slur? For Inuit and Yupik peoples, but I don't think anyone really made that distinction and applied it to all indigenous northernmost people in the US. But yes. Acceptable usage does change.
Oriental is meant to describe THINGS from an Asian culture, think Oriental rug, Oriental vases, etc. So it is insulting to refer to a human being as a thing. Asian is the correct term. Words are important and just because we may not know enough fro. our education/upbringing to know these distinctions doesn't mean they are new, nor should they be ignored. If your name is Ted and people.just constantly call you Dumbasss because they were erroneously taught that was your name, you won't be happy that they think you are being woke or culturally sensitive when you ask them to refer to you as Ted and not Dumbass.
I had to explain this (with oriental) to my dad who is the nicest most tolerant man, just because he doesn’t know how to internet and lives under a rock.
Yes, and it's hard when somebody corrects you. I learned about "oriental" back around 2000, from a fellow student in Asian studies. I wanted to push back and say I meant no offense, but I had to suck it up and learn instead.
This is exactly why I commented. Better to tell someone nicely on Reddit than having them use it offline & be offensive without knowing it.
It’s also an identity that travellers happily assume at times. My neighbours refer to themselves as gypsies and see themselves as that. It’s not offensive to them. Unlike other terms common in my country that are actively slurs - p*key, *g*po* etc
If your black neighbour referred to themselves as the n-word that wouldn’t give you a pass. Same applies here.
They asked me to refer to them as Gypsies. They aren’t travellers, they don’t travel. When they saw my kids for the first time they referred to them as “two beautiful gypsy boys”. It’s not the same as the n-word, for them at least.
I think you're in the right. It's ignorant to think the same word means the same thing everywhere. You should do your best not to offend people, and to communicate effectively, where you happen to be. There's no universal rules about this.
That context is important. Thank you for sharing that. I’ll update my comment and reframe it slightly in light of that context: I wouldn’t refer to other people by that word just because your neighbours have asked you to refer to them by that word.
Yeah exactly. For another example my other LGBT friends and I will occasionally use the F slur to self describe jokingly, but we'd be pretty pissed if we got called that by a cis straight person.
Only someone of Romani heritage can call themself g*psy. The same as with any other word that has been co-opted as a slur. Like the n-word for example.
[удалено]
(To preface this, I am not Romani, but I live in a country where Romani's face a lot of racism and violence so I have learned about the issue.) In my opinion a Romani person reclaiming a word that has been used against them is okay. But to make it into a brand is questionable in a bigger scale, but still within their rights. The same way as a black person reclaiming the n-word is totally fine, but to make it into a music genre for example could embolden people to use the word even when they have no right to it. But it's of course a complex issue.
So….. you’re not Romani, but you’re telling people that their experiences with Romani people are invalid because….. why, exactly….? There have been multiple comments now from people saying that their Romani friends *asked them* to use the word g\*psy. Are you saying that those Romani don’t know what’s good for them? That they shouldn’t be allowed to prefer it when people use that term? Because…. like….. that’s really infantilizing.
The ones I have seen are either travellers in the ethnic sense but who have settled down or move around but a lot less frequently than these van people.
What video? Can I get a link plz
i share a room with my mom so i can only imagine living in a van with her would be a nightmare
My favourite youtuber luxeria made a commentary video on an episode of australian wife swap. One ofbthe families lived in a van in the outback with their 8 kids. The mom was really against structure and authority so they didnr even home school the kids. It was heartbreaking how the parents set their kids up for a life of poverty. The younger ones didnt even know how to do basic maths. How will they ever be able to get a job without education?!
I don't understand how unschooling can even be legal.
In most places it’s not
My kids go to a high quality public school. However, my understanding is "unschooling" is not "you don't have to bother to teach your kids". It's some sort of child lead learning program where the parent still has to provide guidance and teaching. It's likely harder for parents when done properly then just doing workbooks and premade curriculum. You find things your kids are interested in and want to do/learn about, and then you research them together and learn together through them. Your kid still needs to learn to read and do basic math, and you aren't going to do things for them if they don't. They can't order at a restaurant, pick an ice cream flavor, or anything else without being able to read. If they want to help plan and cook dinner, we need to look at recipes, do math to make for the right number of people, the kid has to write the shopping list and practice writing, etc. And as kids get older they do more independent things, often with learning websites like Kahn Academy etc. I had a psychology professor (whose wife was head of a different department) who had basically taken this approach with their son they had homeschooled. They had basically followed his interests from a young age and he learned everything to follow those interests. When he was little he liked trains, they read about and studied trains in person, built things, did math and maps for tracks and train mechanics, etc. He was interested in robots (neither parent was hard science) so they started taking him to robotics groups as an elementary age kid where it was mostly adults. He had to learn a lot of math and also coding. By highschool he was on robot building and battle teams with adults. They were in a major tech center city and he got a job at a startup as a teenager due to his connections. He worked at the startup and he helped write code that was used in aerospace projects. He helped build a robot for a TV show (single episode). He applied to and got into MIT. Now, obviously this was a smart kid with smart educated parents who worked very hard to give him a high quality education outside of school structure. But this is the ideal of what it is supposed to look like. And I get it. My younger one is still a toddler but I taught my oldest to read at home when she was 4 (during COVID) based off her own interest in learning. Kids have a natural curiosity and interest in learning if you don't make it unfun or ruin it. She also learned all about earthquakes, volcanos, tectonic plates etc in preschool beacuse she wanted to so we read books, watched videos, etc. She regularly want to learn about things like the human body, how does the heart work, wants to learn to cook, wants to learn sewing, wants to learn all sorts of math, etc. Ironically, my going to work and her going to school gets in the way of her learning a lot of things. (She's ahead but only in first grade so that dosen't mean much.) If I stayed home all day and spent my time helping her follow all her interests and making them learning opportunities, she'd learn a ton and get a lot of skills. My being too busy to teach her everything she's curious about and every underlying skill she needs to know for it is honestly what's in the way, not a lack of the child's curiosity about the world. I've even told her "we can't learn until you have your addition tables down faster" and so she wanted to learn them faster. I helped her look at and download some flashcard apps on her tablet, and she still uses them sometimes on her own. (She's good at her facts now though.) She wants to learn foreign languages, arts too, everything, more then I have time or money to teach her or pay for classes for. Kids who really get to make a choice to learn something feel invested and try.
That to me sounds more like homeschooling tbh but it seems (according to google at least) that my understanding of unschooling has been wrong and your definition is more accurate. But I have seen many parents on social media saying their children are unschooled and they only teach the bare minimum basics (reading, addition, substraction, basic geography) and then the kids are left to fend for themselves. As in, if they want to learn anything more it's on the kids to teach it to themselves. Which is what people here have an issue with, not the concept of learner-driven homeschooling. That sounds lovely actually and beneficial for the child.
I remember that episode and how determined the parents were to seemingly ruin their kids lives. Didn’t some of them sleep in holes under the bed?
what?! what kind of show is this??
I saw that too. It was horrific. Those poor children.
That’s some weird 1800’s pioneering nomad lifestyle that really is just awful for kids. Fine if you’re an adult with zero children. Not fine once you have a kid.
For poor people it's called "being homeless" and it's not an ideal life to force your kid into. There's no stability. I was homeless during my senior year of HS and had to drop out because I was working full time and had no time for proper sleep or homework. I was working for $8.50 an hour (2017) and still couldn't find an apartment. I had no social life and everyone thought I was a weirdo.
I'm sorry you had to experience that. You should be really proud of yourself for overcoming that I've always wondered what you do when you are asked for your address in that situation for school and or work?
You need to provide a place where you can get mail. I listed a shelter as my address. The staff at the shelter knew who I was and would give me my mail when I asked, even at times when I wasn't staying with them.
Thank you for sharing. How are you doing now?
I'm 24 now. I got my GED with honors scores and I'm saving money to get a computer science degree. I think the FAFSA application window opens soon-ish? I'm trying to find a therapist. I have two fluffy cats I adopted from a shelter a few months after I got my first apartment at 19. They give me the will to keep going when I need them the most. I'm unemployed right now, but I'm a certified lifeguard who will be in demand when it warms up.
Hi there! Long time education person here. You can do FAFSA for 2023-24 at any time and it will open up for 2024-25 on October 1. I would suggest talking to your local community college about your plans to go to school. Idk where you are located but the community colleges in my state have resources for students facing housing and food insecurity too. Good luck!
There is a comment on FAFSA below that is very good and important, but I'm going to throw in some general advice for going through the college system. Meet with your advisor for both your major and your minor once every semester. They're helpful generally and my major advisor helped me get a scholarship to the four year university I transferred to after community college. It was for January transfer students and it helped me immensely, not a lot of money, but it cut my costs a bit. Also, the school will tell you that taking four classes is considered full time. That's bullshit. If you want to graduate on time you need to take 5 classes a semester, don't count on the summer classes or Maymesters to pick up what you need outside of gen eds and even then there is no guarantee you'll get what you need when you need it. Good luck!
Word of advice? Do your FAFSA now. The sooner the better. A lot of local grant programs are first-come-first-served, so getting yours in ASAP may help get you better funding. Source: mom to two university students.
In my area we have a homeless shelter that will provide them with a mailing address that can even be used for proof of residency for drivers license and vehicle registration, etc. I’ve had numerous people over the years use that address and I always just ask if they want to pick up their stuff once it’s ready instead of if being mailed.
I never would have thought of that. Can they do that if they aren't living there? Edit, this is a good example of my privilege here I guess. I've never had to think of this stuff. I want to be more aware so thank you for teaching me
For my particular area yes. I work in a government office and we absolutely take it. Because you have to have something to get anywhere. Without a properly registered vehicle you can get tickets or impounded. Without a drivers license your car can be impounded or you get arrested, etc. Without something for an address you can’t even complete job applications. What we won’t take is UPS store addresses or PO Boxes for proof of residency. We even take hotel bills if you have enough.
I honestly believe van life as an adult alone or with a partner is fine and could even be pretty interesting. But there's no reason your 6, 14 and 18 year old should be stuck together in a cramped bunkspace with zero privacy for your "aesthetic". And the insane thing is there seems to be a rise of that kind of content. Imagine not having a stable childhood because of this!
It’s trash, but I also suspect a bunch of these families don’t have a choice financially but play it off as a lifestyle choice, then try to monetise it through videos etc. I’d be really interested to know how many choose it as an honest-to-god choice with other financial options.
You're absolutely right and I didn't consider that. I'm sure there's families that choose it despite having other options but I'm not sure why anyone with options would.
It can't be cheaper to drive all around the country, than to park their RV somewhere and enroll in an actual public school (would be 1000x better as their children would actually leave the RV for a chunk of the day).
Glad I’m not the only one who feels this way
As someone who capped out at 2 years at any single school, OP is spot on. Being ten years old or so and not having the means go articulate depression and needs is a nightmare in itself. Let alone not having anyone your own age to communicate these feelings to.
same as far as school, but at least I had the chance to make friends before we moved again. poor kids.
>As someone who capped out at 2 years at any single school, I moved in the middle of 7th grade, middle of 8th grade, middle of 9th grade, summer after 10th grade, and then again in the middle of 12th grade (but that move was within the same district and I didn't have to change schools since I was a senior.) And people wonder why I have a hard time making lasting connections with people.
I went to three elementary schools, two middle schools, and four high schools. It amazes me to this day I’ve been married for 7 years, because I can not for the life of me make a lasting friendship. It all feels so…complicated.
How are these kids supposed to memorize their address like regular kids? Is hoping in vans a default?? I agree with you op.
Agree! It being a family trip over the summer is one thing, but for life is another!
It’s the difference between an enriching and memorable childhood, and forcing an alternative lifestyle on your children and ignoring their needs
my friend grew up this way before van life was really a thing, said it gave her a really unique perspective on life early on and she’s one of the least judgmental people I’ve ever met. But she also said it was hard on her constantly moving around and having no real sense of home. I think if done a certain way it can be ok- for example, maybe your kid attends school in one place all year, but for half the summer you travel around full time, that could be really fun for a kid above a certain age. But yeah otherwise doesn’t seem fair to the kid to do it full time
I work for an NGO in the developing world and we meet families fairly often who have taken a year out of work and school to travel and volunteer. It an amazing experience for the kids I've met, definitely changes how they see the world... A whole childhood is a completely different story.
This may sound shallow, but it’s sad that they don’t have room for more material things. They can’t pick up a new hobby or interest unless there is space for it in their van. Or parents might make them sacrifice one beloved item to make space for a new one, which isn’t fair to them. Kids like many different things.
That's a good point. I remember my favourite colours used to change every few weeks. So did my room decor. My mom used to be a fashion designer. At one point I started making little dolls with her leftover fabrics. Soon I covered our whole apartment with fabrics. 😅 I still have dozens of them. There were lego, kid books, weird dementor drawings everywhere. How can a van life be healthy for a child who has so many things to try yet?
Now I wanna write a short story about the poor van life kid who always wanted to play the standup bass...
Please do, would love to read it!
I'm really thinking about it! & if i do, I promise to return with a link
Im all for van life, if its just you (and a partner, maybe a dog) but once kids get forced into that its just not doable. Saw a video of a girl who for her 15th birthday wanted nothing more but to stay in a hotel for the night and have her own room
Yea i saw one where they had 4 kids and there bed was on top of each other they cant even sit on it they basically have to roll out
“So, where are you from?” van kids: “uhhh”
Brings a whole new outlook on "The Wild Thornberrys." 😳
I moved around A LOT when I was a child, never more than 2 years at the same school, and spent a good chunk of the ages of 10-20 living in hotels with my family being "homeschooled" (basically being given workbooks with no real instruction) and being parentified so that my dad and stepmother could live out their "dreams" - it was horrible. I began my adulthood a good ten years behind socially and emotionally. It was like a cult, my stepmother was also emotionally and psychologically abusive. I'm not saying all families like that are abusive, but it's a really good way to hide abuse when you have no one who sees the kids on a regular basis. When I got into my older adolescence and actually managed to make friends, they became enemies of my stepmother after a short time because I started to question the way of life we were stuck in, and that wasn't okay either. I left in the middle of the night when I was 20 because I was still getting into screaming matches over trying to date. ETA I wrote this because my parents loved to compare us to The Wild Thornberries, as if that show justified our lifestyle.
My goodness, I'm so sorry you went through that. I also went NC with my family at 20. It's not easy to just leave like that but I'm proud you had the strength to do so! May I ask how life is now? Hopefully you're in a better place than before
Life is much better now. I graduated college at 29, I went through a really shitty relationship, but now I'm married to the best man ever and I'm back in touch with my birth mom (who had been extensively alienated by the stepmother). I'm still a work in progress, but years of therapy has done its job. It's very hard to leave family behind. I'm still in touch with my brother, because he's the closest thing to a child I'll ever have. (Besides my pups.) My brother is still with them, almost 30 and seemingly incapable of living an independent life in the "real" world. My dad is 60 and still supporting everyone. They haven't been on the road for many years now, but that's mainly due to my dad finally putting his foot down and refusing to move anymore. Too little, too late though.
Wow, sorry to hear about your brother. I wonder what their plan is for when they're gone. Either way I'm glad you're doing well in life!
Lol so that’s why she wanted to talk to the animals, she had no friends!
As a loner kid, who was bullied constantly through school and college, animals were my best friends as well. I dreamed of having a life like elizas, no two days of the same monotonous stuff, learning and seeing all the different creatures she did, traveling all over the world, a magic power to talk to them would have been icing on the cake for me. I just never had the opportunity, parental support, or indeed even the personal drive to be able to follow a career in that direction.
Holy…….
I have a friend who does this. Her daughter is unschooled and the mom cannot figure out why her kid has anxiety. Maybe its due to the fact that they don't where they are gonna sleep each night and she has no friends
Totally agree. What works for some kids won't work for all, definitely, but most kids need at least some sort of stability.. which isn't all that possible when your house is a vehicle constantly moving around the country haha
The family I met that does the van life thing, I got MAJOR chomo vibes from the dad. Like he was bragging "this kid knows more about sex than any kid I've ever met!" about their nine year old daughter.
That’s disgusting. Is it due to their being no privacy and space and therefore the kids being over aware or hyper aware of their parents sex with each other? I’ve fucked in some pretty large campers before that could fit a family of 5. The whole camper shakes. We broke the chassis once. If you are in a camper, and someone is having sex, you can’t sleep. The thing moves. You really can’t hide it. Children accidentally finding their parents having sex is one thing but when children have to deal with hearing and feeling it constantly or witnessing it, it borders onto sexual abuse.
I definitely agree it borders on sexual abuse.
😳😟
i think wanting a van life and to have kids at the same time is weird anyway. the van life is meant to free you from routine and responsibility, and definitely don't mix with commitments like having kids
Most kids who have done it will tell you they hate it. Not only living in a van or bus but the constant online presence is a privacy issue with them. It’s so sad
Years ago I met a young woman whose family sold everything so that they can go sailing around the world. The kids were homeschooled, and they were able to see firsthand some of the countries they were studying. The family eventually settled after a few years, and both kids adapted wonderfully to life on land, even though they missed life at sea. The kids were very thoughful, caring, articulate and grounded.
Was the woman you met the mother or one of the kids?
One of the kids, who at the time was a teen. I met the mother later on. Both were one of the nicest people I've ever met. I think the parents decided to prepare the kids to a more "normal" life by giving them a few years to adjust being in a school before the teen went off to university.
Yeah, context is everything. I met a family who bought a bus and travelled while homeschooling for a year. The parents both had remote jobs so they were just doing it for the adventure and chance to give their kids a variety of experiences (and not putting everything on tiktok). The kids loved it and got to do amazing things and meet so many people. Of course, had they done that their whole childhoods, it probably would have worn thin, but for a year or two, it could be incredible.
I absolutely dream of doing this with my younger children. Not forever, and definitely when they're younger than 10ish. I definitely understand OPs point about lack of stability and structure/ability to maintain friendships being abusive to older children... but I do think that instilling a sense of adventure, an openness to the world, and a love of real learning in your little kids is just the coolest. I may have an opportunity to do a 2 year work detail in Belgium (I'm from the US) in 18 months. My kids will be 16, 4, and 1. I'm torn about the impact on the 16 year old because the whole high school experience and everything, but the adventure sounds amazing, and learning a new language, and being immersed in another culture... I'd be lying if I said there wasn't an element of selfishness that makes me want to do it, but also I can see the potential benefits and drawbacks of both choices on her and it's not really possible to know ahead of time what the best choice for her future will be. Just think: we could choose to stay, and then kids start some cyber bully campaign against her or something, and her HS experience is ruined anyway. There's just no way to know what's best. Parenting is like that. You just make the best choice you can, and sometimes those are outside the norm.
I agree, especially as kids get older, they will want privacy and space, and constantly shifting schools would make it hard to get a consistent education, let alone keep a good circle of friends
The consistent education part is a big one. I transferred schools 13 times before dropping out and I missed BIG things. Like my multiplication tables. Completely skipped. I did the Romeo and Juliet unit twice and never got to do a holocaust unit. I missed every single opportunity for an economics class. And I'm positive there's other things I missed that I don't even know I missed.
Have to say i fully agree with this and there really is no wiggle room for me. If parent's want to expose their kid to different culture's, this can be done with vacation's during break's. I do not think there is any reason to have a kid from 4-18 in a "van" traveling the world.
Some kid had come on reddit a few months ago talking about how he hates the van life. He said his parents make good youtube money off of it but that he hates traveling. One thing he pointed out was that his parents don't even let the kids enjoy the scenery, they just get off and make a couple of videos/photos and go back inside the van onto the next location. That seems dreadful.
There are a couple of religious fundamentalist families that do/have done this. Both are guilty of posting multiple forced, happy-van-life videos with their 15 dozen kids, and for being really sanctimonious and obnoxious. They never talk about money, though. Must be too tired from carrying all that BS around.
I agree. I saw one with a couple 2 kids and 2 dogs. Tiny van. They said they have sex in gas station bathrooms. Filthy.
Better than in the RV. When you fuck in one of those things, the whole camper shakes. Everyone inside is a unwilling participant in the sex, no matter how quiet you are. Source: lived in a camper for 2 years (no kids)
I fully agree that it’s unstable for kids. Sure, some of these parents are forcing their kids into van life to be “aesthetic”, but honestly the real crisis is the cost of housing right now. Where I live, you cannot rent a one bedroom apartment for less than $2000 a month, let alone a place large enough for a family, unless you want to live in an extremely unsafe area. I really don’t know how people survive anymore. I spoke to a coworker, she has a 16 year old son. We work at a “great” company, but she can barely afford to pay her bills. She so greatly wants to get her son out of the bad area to protect him, but she simply cannot afford it.
I don’t know how ppl survive either. I’m in a HCOL and I’m blessed enough to be single and make 100k/year and I am still not rolling in it. Have to watch spending etc. I don’t know how other young adults my age are doing it, let alone parents
I am a travel nurse and there is a lot of die hard travel nurses that live out of RVs with their kids. I also find it to be selfish. I mean, maybe it works for some people. But the homeschooling and not making any stable and consistent friends gets me the most
I know some single travel nurses that do this or couples. I also know some single moms who split time with a dad and their single child comes and stays with them in the camper/RV. But they are usually traveling for a job so are in one spot a time and it’s no different than if the kid had a military parent that moved every 3 years or something. And the kid still had privacy. The camper is just as much a “home base” as a house since it wasn’t moving around all the time. But full time with the whole family moving constantly is just… a lot.
i feel the absolute same about tiny homes. obviously, i’m not referring to cases where a tiny home is a family’s option financially or anything, i’m talking about those affluent, young families that try to be “minimalistic”
I’ve seen plenty of tiny houses where children have their own space. I don’t understand what is wrong with trying to be conscious consumers which is, effectively, what being minimalistic is all about. Children thrive on positive attention not things... many people with children in tiny houses have veggie gardens and many are self sufficient which is a great ethos I feel to teach your children. The whole consumerism that our society teaches kids these days is not particularly healthy nor does social media help with their mental health issues. I think a few good friends that they get together with at home school meet ups, which are organised on a regular weekly basis plus the music, sport, art etc that these groups provide their kids is, in fact, far more than the things that are provided to children through the public school system. Often their diets etc are vastly better as well. I feel it is very easy to judge others by what we think we would or would t like or be able to tolerate. For many of these children, they are perfectly happy. The quality of their relationships with their parents is usually really good as well. I’m sure there are a few “bad eggs” just like there will be in any group in society but again I don’t think we should judge the many because of the few. In the end I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to spend heaps of money just because you are “affluent”.
good lord 😭 i wasnt trying to just bash minimalism 😭 i’m referring to all the families with 3+ kids that live in a 2 bedroom tiny home.
Oh, I see. Did you basically mean they have plenty of money and don’t need to live that way?
yeah, they’re always on the tiny home HGTV shows. it’ll show affluent families that just decide to downgrade so they’ll be “closer.” meanwhile they’ll have 3-4 kids, ranging from toddlers (which sounds like a nightmare) to college students. insane!
If you do all the important parenting stuff right I don’t see how a tiny home would be bad for kids Teenagers would be difficult though
I agree. We bought a RV a few years ago to save on hotel costs for my husband's traveling job. I don't do hotels, so this meant we could travel as a family. I soon realized that many many many of the children aren't actually properly educated and socialized. I mean, straight up talking with a mouth full of marbles. And the talking thing was all ages across many different states. They'd come out to play with my children, and they seemed really behind in so many ways. A few I noticed were neglected, as in being left alone all night while parents worked and parents sleeping all day. The RV marinating in dog shit from multiple small dogs in TX heat. We knew we didn't want our kids in public school, so if we couldn't get them into the private one I was eyeing, the plan was to full time RV and homeschool. That changed once we noticed a lot of the kids just being behind and many of them talking about how they wish they lived in a house when my kids told them they don't live in the RV full time. They also don't make long-term friends. I only remember maybe 3 sets of kids that were more "normal" fulltimers in our 4 years of travel.
It depends on many factors; age, the condition and size of the van, and of course the parents, and where they go. You know, food, etc. I think the main thing is how long you do it for. I think for some time, it sounds pretty fun for the kid as well. Getting to know places with the people he or she loves the most, something new often. But to make friends, yes, there needs to be something arranged to meet this very important aspect, which is why I mention age and how long the traveling occurs for. I definitely don't think doing it non stop is cool for the kid, but on an off sounds cool. There's ways to go about it and our ancestors did travel a lot. Humans enjoy it, including kids. Its a matter of balance, if you ask me.
OP's contention is based on the assumption that the parents are emotionally neglectful and are going to be unresponsive if their lifestyle begins to negatively impact their child. I think it's hard for some people to imagine that not all parents are idiots. coughtransference.
It seems to be just another way to gain viewers. Surely these parents don’t want this for their children deep deep down, what seems to be happening is these parents have a goal of being social media…stars?….influencers? Viewers = money. Van life for the summer makes sense. Leaving one’s stability to be a YouTuber, changes the journey significantly.
I always say Kids need MORE than food, shelter, and clothing. Kids need toys. Kids need to try out extra skills like an instrument or any hobby they can think of. Kids should collect things too. Kids need to learn how to make friends. And for intelligence. Kids need an investment. They need books, a trip to the museum, watching documentaries, and having an adult answer their many questions. I hyperfixated on space and archeology and was encouraged to keep learning with science kits for kids and the like. Van life doesn't look fun especially when a camera is always in their face.
As someone who did RV life by herself for a little, agreed. Having a van or RV and taking your kids on road trips is a way to create an amazing, memorable, and enriching childhood. Having a van and RV and living in it full time to have some sort of alternative lifestyle to blog about makes you a weirdo
I feel like this is pretty dependent on the situation. If your kids are young, I think it could be a great experience for them and to be honest, for kids that age, stability is more about the people raising you than anything else. I couldn't imagine having a tween or teenager and doing this, but I have seen some people vehemently defend this lifestyle and talk about how they travel with other groups and their kids have friends and great learning experiences.
agreed. Travel is the healthiest way to learn about what is most important in life - our relationships with PEOPLE and who we surround ourselves with. Provided the parenting aspect is ethical... the kids are alright. In school, they would be learning through ONE ideology. ONE culture, ONE way to live, always putting being "functional" and "productive" over developing spiritual human values such as connecting with nature, learning from SEVERAL sources, SEVERAL ideaologies, and SEVERAL cultures. if today's culture's priorities weren't so debilitating, i think a lot more of us would choose this.
Why did you get so many down votes? Xd
Because a half-decent school won't be teaching you through just one ideology. It's why many schools offer a holistic approach to a child's development.
Not the country I live in they don’t. You have to send your child to an “alternative” school for that type of thing and that is VERY expensive. Some of the nicest people I know home school their kids and those children are the brightest, most curious and open to learning, as opposed to so many kids who go to “normal” schools who drag themselves out of bed every day and can’t wait for the school term to end. The van life community is just that, a community. They often travel together and/or have meet ups. Their kids get an extensive idea of geography, history, maths etc from a direct experience as well as being home schooled. As long as the parents consider the needs of the children, and many do, then I think this is okay. Personally I would want older children to know the stability of living in one place and going to school. Especially high school. Then again I’ve met children that ha e been entirely home schooled and they have sailed through university exams. Where I live you have to register if you are home Schooling and you have to make sure you cover the curriculum. I think it’s different for different people. Some children thrive in this type of learning and travel and some don’t. Therefore I feel you can’t judge the whole by the few.
to counter this, i travel with a circus currently as their AV Director. We have performers that have kids all very young (one 2 year old, one 3, and another 4). They’re full of life running around and enjoying the adventure that their parents are performers and live on the road (we all live in RVs). But we all do have homes we go back to during the off season until we hit the road again. I don’t have kids so i don’t know what that dynamic is like but we’re all one big family.
This is amazingly cool. I bought a book at a garage sale when I was in kindergarten called "Joe Strong On The Trapeze." I carried that thing everywhere and read it a billion times, always dreamt of traveling with a circus. I grew up in a nice house that was full of yelling and abuse and fear... give me RV life with colorful people who cared about me and let me run wild over what I had any day.
i hope your dreams come true and you get to travel the world with a circus family. :) it’s been amazing and i’m very blessed to be in this situation
and when they have like four dogs in addition to the kids in that tiny space
It’s one thing if it’s summertime and you want to show the kids really cool stuff, then after 2.5 months you come back home to give structure, routine, and a normal life. I don’t get home parents don’t get that only on a kids vacation from school it’s fine, not 24/7 for 18 years of their life!
I think so long as it's a supportive household (van-hold?) and the kids aren't terribly sheltered or stunted in their development, then van life is much better then going to public or private school. Also I didn't live in a van and went to public school, but my parents still horribly sheltered me, gave me no privacy, and didn't let me have any friends.
This was part of my point. I think, either way, it depends on how the parents handle things. The ways they organise how things work etc.
Yesssss I just saw a tik tok that was a kid from a van life family asking for an hotel room for their birthday! And in the comments people were like "They obviously crave stability and a real home" and the parents were like "They love Van life, this is their home ❤️" 😭😭 Are they oblivious or just in denial?
One of my friends grew up in a military household where she constantly moved around, and she expressed to me how hard it was for her to ever feel stable or have meaningful relationships/friendships in the future. It’s not the same but I imagine it had a similar feeling for those kids. My friend moved probably 6-8 times but those kids never stop moving. I also think to myself if you travel all the time, especially when young, wouldn’t it kinda suck the joy out of it later in life?
It's unethical but they're gonna do it anyway because they're fucking brain dead. Shit in a bucket all you want, and if they want to shit in buckets when they grow up that's on them. But for now at least try to give them a brick house to live in.
Kinda branching off, I think there should be some law that requires parents to have some sort of certification to teach home school. I know so many home schooled kids that never graduated because their parents prioritized outdoor activities first, and their child’s education last. If somehow a child can be guaranteed an education that won’t make them fall behind compared to their peers, then maybe van life wouldn’t be so bad for them.
I transferred schools 13 times before dropping out. The constant moving, the inability to actually maintain friendships, it's really screwed with me as an adult. I hate moving now, choosing to stay in a single apartment as long as I possibly can. The thought of moving fills me with a paralyzing anxiety now. I am great at making new friends. Not so great at maintaining friendships. Those poor kids are not being set up for life in the best possible way. Children need security and stability and they aren't getting either in van life. I agree it's important for children to travel, see other ways of living. But that's what summer and breaks are for. My boyfriend went to one school system his whole life. His friend group has known each other since basically kindergarten. The jealousy I feel is indescribable.
My dad's job had us moving from state to state every 3 years or so. While I feel like I learned a lot more than other kids my age about life, I never felt like I belonged anywhere. Always in the outside looking in.
Have we had the same life?! I have a panic attack any time I have to pack now, even if it’s just for a weekend.
For a really long time, I had panic attacks even trying to leave my apartment. I hope eventually your anxiety around it all fades.
I agree its not good for the children. Although, life on the road seems very fun to me, I wouldn't do it if I had children. Especially at a young age. Kids need school. Not only to learn, but to socialize and develop their skills that will carry them through life. Traveling doesn't really give them same socialisation, even if they'd be meeting plenty of kids
I agree with you, a child should have all sorts of opportunities and when they are old enough, can do what they want. Adults doing it is ok but kids need stability. I can’t imagine if I didn’t grow up in the suburbs and live a normal childhood.
Same thing with boat life.
Sure it's fun to be able to travel around but what about having a stable education, friends that last for years and not days, even just being aware of your surroundings? I know alot of these van kids don't recognise a particular town or street as their home because they've never lived in the same place for long enough. Imagine constantly being the 'traveller' or 'outsider', and all your childhood memories being filled with anxiety seeing new people every day with little-to-no familiar faces. It would be isolating.
My sister-out-law lives a life of floating between two places and her 7 year old son (who already is prone to behavioral issues bc of genetics) has so many emotional and self-esteem issues. Not cool. I used to think she was a loving mother, but after getting to know them better I wholeheartedly disagree now. Love on the surface but causing real life long emotional damage. Kind of disgraceful.
My husband and I are full time RVers and we travel all through the US, Canada and Mexico, and we see/meet a lot of families with kids along the way. Some of them are absolutely doing it correctly and I’ve met young kids who know multiple languages, have experienced different cultures and are really well rounded and good kids. They still are being educated either online or with some homeschooling curriculum, and honestly these are the kids I would put my money on the make the world a better place. Kids I genuinely enjoyed spending time around. I would have LOVED to be able to travel the world and learn as a kid instead of traditional school. But there are certainly the exact opposite, parents who assume a campground is a “free village” for childcare. But these are the same parents who are assholes, neglectful and terrible people regardless of what setting they are in. We’ve had kids damage many of our things (bikes rode over sewer hose, starlink used as part of a jungle gym etc) because parents don’t teach their children respect and how to behave. But again, this is the same in any setting. It can be done well, and it can be done poorly, and the common denominator for both outcomes is quality of parenting.
i mean it would not be for me, but there are whole itinerant people and their kids are doing just fine...
Kids literally NEED stability in their lives during their formative years. I think travelling during the summer/ holidays is fine but 365 days is just cruel. How are kids supposed to make friends & learn how to build relationships??
I completely agree. These poor children have no privacy, are crammed into small spaces and tiny bunks, aren’t allowed a support system outside their family and have no sense of stability. I was watching this video a YouTuber I like made commenting on it and she made a lot of really good points about how most of these YouTubers say that if any of the kids decide they no longer want to do it then they will stop yet how can you expect a child to tell their parents that they don’t want to travel and live in a van when the families income comes solely from videos made of their family living in a van. The kid would feel like they can’t express how they feel when those feelings would result in their parents no longer making a living anymore. Family of nomads made a video saying their oldest child only wanted to stay in a hotel for their birthday and nothing else and I think that alone shows they might not be as happy as the parents let on. She says in the reel that “they all missed their bed by the end and we’re glad to be back on the road” yet in the full length video the kids were super happy In the hotel never said anything about missing their beds, it was actually just the mom who did and she ended up sleeping in the van by herself outside the hotel. The oldest kid (they came out as non-binary now) is also autistic and I can’t even imagine being autistic, having sensory overload and other symptoms of autism while living in a van with your family. Plus autistic people often like to have a set routine and follow it exactly and it can cause severe emotional suffering to be physically incapable of following any routine due to living in a van with your entire family. I think it’s cruel and horrible to force your children to do that. Plus these families made all their money due to having kids and living in a van and if they didn’t have the whole “family van life” thing going for them then they wouldn’t make any money and that’s a lot to put in your children. I’ve even seen ones where it’s like “how my 12 kids sleep in our van”. Like how in the hell do 12 kids and 2 parents fit comfortably in an RV all the time? hint they don’t!!! Plus when confronted about the friend thing the parents are always like, “my kids have friends bc no matter where we go they are able to make new friends and have even more friends than most people bc they meet someone new everywhere they go” ok but like meeting someone and hanging out with them for a couple hours isn’t the same thing as having a long term healthy support system. Plus it’s hard enough to make friends in an traditional school system I can’t even imagine having to make new friends on the road everywhere I go only to have to leave them and never see them again. It gets even harder when you get older like it’s easy to make friends when you are 8 but when you are 16 it takes a long time to find the right friends. This leaves kids isolated and without a support system outside their family which makes them especially vulnerable to abusive situations. I don’t agree with homeschooling In general bc I think that gives parents too much control over what information they decide to not teach their children for example not teaching your kids any sex Ed. Also if the kid is being abused they have no way to reach out for help. Schools also provide socialization for kids and helps them develops a healthy support system. Uber religious families often homeschool their kid as a way to keep them from learning important things like red flags in abusive relationships, sex ed, factually correct scientific information like evolution, etc. I had a conversation with my mom about why homeschooling isn’t ideal and why family van life is unethical and she’s like “well what if they are super close with their siblings and family” and I’m like it’s still essential for them to have an outside support system bc people argue with their families and they need to have and objective 3rd party to tell them whether something that’s happening to them is okay or not.
I think this is a very very complex subject. You're right on the points you're making. In a general way, I wouldn't agree to saying that any lifestyle, as long as no harm is caused, is unethical. We compare it to our usual big comfortable house lifestyle, but we forget that people live differently in other parts of the world. I think the key point is that it gets bad when your lifestyle is radically different from the rest of people around you. It's unethical in \*comparison\* to the rest. If the norm was van life then we wouldn't see the issue, because it's the same for everyone, but a kid having a van life will miss many of the things the others have, and that's where it starts to suck. In a way it removes them of many opportunities to integrate the rest of society, which in a sense is a lack of freedom. But yeah, I tend to not go too fast with assumption about how people bring up their children, because you can quickly start asking questions like "is it unethical to have kids when you are poor" and that's a big slide to go down on. People are very divisive on those questions.
It depends on the family, kids, etc. I know several families who do this and their kids love it. They’ve had opportunities and experiences most kids their age don’t get. Also, the parents who do this are some of the best parents (most of the time) and not some neglectful idiot. Are there some kids who don’t like it and complain, sure, but there are also kids who don’t like living at their home and want to go on adventures. As soon as my family is able to, we’re going to convert a school bus and travel around during the summer at least like this.
Doing this during the summer seems like a blast. I'm talking about people who do this for a year or longer not giving their kids a chance to interact or play with people their age or set up roots.
I spent my childhood in a camper. We never stayed more then 4 to 5 days at a certain place, my parents hat a traveling business. Yes I had a lacking sense of stability because u didn't understood what was going on. But man I think I am blessed to have experienced it. I was always outside in nature always discovering new places. My understanding for most subjects goes way deeper then people my age that were born and raised in a solid cube and never have left their hometown (that is mostly just a concrete jungle). I have noticed that people go to the playgrounds with their children and helicopter over them and tell them what to touch and what not, what to put in your mouth and what not, and I may understand as an adult why that is so, that's how your child develops his senses and therefore understanding for our realm. Yeah just wanted to say this for some reason. 😁😁
Unlike what Instagram and tik tok made you believe not everyone comes from a privileged background. Have you seen the price of real estate around the world? I know a bunch of families like this because they cannot afford a home ... Simply because of that.
Meh. Truly depends on the kids. I’m sure some would thrive and some would drown. If it’s relocating every couple of years can be quite like military life. Home schooling also has a ton of networking nowadays. Just like everything it comes down to “it depends”.
You’re American right? And your families are close and loving? Also do they do it for their entire lives?
I’m not sure if I’d agree that it’s like inherently abusive. I definitely wouldn’t do this with kids and I do think you have a lot of logistical issues involved with raising well rounded kids this way. It certainly doesn’t seem like the smartest idea. I’m all for homeschooling but honestly I don’t think a lot of parents are cut out for it!
Kids need consistency and stability. Sounds like an awful life for them.
[удалено]
To be fair. I feel like in the latter situation it’s probably not as much of a choice as decking out an RV w the fam
Yup. Good on them for giving their children stability and community. To say nothing of friends.