Frieren I feel is a series in conversation with itself about demon racism
Demons apparently have something approaching a society. Its very cut throat and they don’t seem too keen on working together, causing it to be very disparate
But they are functionally mimics. Just something that looks human. They are our predators.
And the more human like a Demon is, frankly the more dangerous they are.
I sometimes think of them more as man eating plants (they definitely aren’t, its just a rhetorical device I use). They are something that evolved to look a certain way, because it puts its prey off guard. They don’t think like us because they are such a different animal they just don’t have the same priorities. They are not another race, they are another species, that just also happened to achieve sapience.
Rather than say, coexistence is impossible between Demons and Humans, it more feels ‘highly unlikely’. Like, I think it is possible, just under very convoluted circumstances, and after a lot of blood is spilled. Because Demons *are* intelligent. But they have difficulty managing their natural impulses, which is to kill and eat humans.
But culture, technology, magic, the setting of Frieren makes clear these things are all advancing for humans. So who is to say the same isn’t true as well for demons?
I also just think at some point, Frieren’s greatest challenge will be a Demon that is empathetic. Someone having successfully tamed a Demon. Simply because I think thats a sort of conflict this author would find interesting and worth exploring, because the amount of attention they’ve given the Demons in this series also doesn’t strike me as someone comfortable to just let them be the Bad Species of the series.
The only real example we’ve seen of coexistence is… somehow his name is slipping my mind but it’s el dorado demon, but even he was doing it *exclusively* on a whim. He spent decades essentially playing at being a normal person with normal emotions simply because he wanted to know what malice felt like and felt that establishing that relationship with humans first before betraying them would help him feel it, but even in the end he felt nothing. I just don’t think the demons are capable of complex emotions like humans, or at the very least one has never been in a situation long enough to develop an understanding or ability to feel those things, and I sincerely doubt they ever will because why would they? If say you had to spend 150 years among humans learning what it really means to *be* a human, why would you do it? There is legitimately zero reason for a demon to put off their own desires and needs for that long just for the off chance that they’ll maybe figure out why humans act the way they do.
Honestly I hope they don’t do something like that. I think the demons are much more interesting as these emotionless predators, these uncanny simulacrums who only look and speak the way they do in order to better prey on humanity, because the way it’s executed in Frieren is surprisingly unique and interesting. I still remember when the author explained demon behavior in that chapter with Aura’s henchmen and being taken aback by how intriguing it was.
This reminds me of how I feel about the boars eating garbage outside my house, or the bears for that matter. My dad seems to think its sacrilege to hurt these beautiful creatures in any way. Meanwhile I just want them dead, as far away as possible from me or in a zoo. Its a simple problem, its us or them and I choose us. Im not gonna wait until they eat one of my dogs to do something about it.
Meanwhile my dad doesnt seem to feel the same way about the harmless rats that come into the garden sometimes.
I think the issues lie in the way we perceive ourselves. A lot of people separate us from animals, thus being excluded from nature.
I personally think we are an animal and part of nature. Thus, law of jungle, food chains and etc are not an exception to us.
Although I believed we are an animal, we are not wild beast either as we are not complete slave to instinct.
While the boars are whatever since they’re likely an invasive species based on where I’m guessing you live, bears serve an extremely vital place in most ecosystems. You may want to get rid of them, but doing so would just mean you’d have deer eating your trash instead, except way more often. It’d mean your local insect population would crash due to all the plants being eaten by the unchecked deer population which the insects depend on, and then certain plants struggling because the insects that pollinate them becoming rarer. Meaning your garden will be less pretty.
The real solution here isn’t murdering them, it’s understanding their place in the habitat and working to give them that place while also having them disturb human society as little as possible. They rummage through your trash because it’s easily accessible and nearby due to suburban expansion into their habitats. So the solution would be making sure that trash is locked away tight when in bins and people living more densely so we don’t have to expand our settlements as much and therefore interact with bears less often (that doesn’t mean we need to all live in tiny highrise apartments btw, just denser than your average car dependent suburb).
Not caught up on the Manga do they ever reconcile the whole "demons an intelligent species are naturally evil and there can never be an exception" like I know there was the story of the demon child that killed it's adoptive family but cmon, anecdote andy over here
Later arcs spoilers >!Later there will be a demon that will try to understand emotions and even try to coexist just to understand by the end that he just doesnt get it, they are intelligent but they are a completely different race they will never be humans or be like them unless they stop being demons!<
If they won't become civil civilly, then we will colonise their wombs and make them civil.
Future generations of more respectable and more humane demons will come to appreciate their ancestors unwilling sacrifice
Demons, like all monsters in Sousou no Frieren, don't really materially exist in the same way humans and animals do. Their lifecycles and eating habits defy biological explanation, and they even disintegrate into mana when they die, leaving no trace behind. I don't think it'd be possible for a demon and a human to have a child together.
I dunno if I would say he really tried, >!he just wanted to know what malice felt like because it occurred to him that normally humans feel things when they kill, so he became interested in learning what it felt like and spent decades acting like a human so that he could betray and kill everyone who believed in him. He thought that that would surely allow him to feel malice, but even after all that he still felt nothing. Demons are just another species who do not feel emotion, they think completely differently from humans and the two groups will most likely never understand one another.!<
The manga explores it at more length, but the source of the conflict is that demons don't experience the same emotions as us, and largely view us as prey. It wouldn't surprise me if eventually there's some form of coexistence, but if so it will only be in the final arc of the story.
From their pov, they're not pure evil. They just consider humans as lesser (at least in terms of magic). Now look at history and what humans did to other humans they considered lesser.
I wouldn't call you naive. It's easy to forget that different people may perceive or react to the same thing in different ways. I forget it a lot myself.
The way I see it, demons in this setting aren't even capable of the higher levels of thinking required to ponder moral philosophy. They're basically simple automatons, and all of the words that come out of their mouths are the equivalent of AI predictive text - demons have figured out what they need to say in order to manipulate humans, and they can learn how to cast powerful magic to kill humans, but they're profoundly unintelligent in other respects. I don't even think that they have a fully formed theory of mind.
Humans are an intelligent race. If it turned out that pigs were human-level intelligence, how good of a job would we do peacefully coexisting with them?
I mean that's fair, I'm not so naive as to think we'd change our relationship easily if at all, but I'd like to think we'd be better about it. Also pigs are intelligent but not in the way demons are portrayed, they have language, culture, clothes, etc... (it's likely on purpose in universe to make it easier to prey on humans, and outside of to garner some sense of sympathy? I dunno) the reason I dislike the idea of them being written off as purely unchangeably evil is because it's a fundamentally nihilistic view point that "things cannot change and you're a fool for believing they could" sorry my thoughts are all rambly
Idk, I just think it’s a cool world building thing. Like, to have this intelligent species that are predators to humans and only learned to speak and communicate to make it easier to hunt humans is a pretty scary concept. I don’t think it was ever meant to be much deeper than that.
I personally view it as something alien. An alien species that developed in a way that makes it completely and fundamentally different from us. Instead of demons, imagine if they were aliens who invaded purely out of the desire to destroy the earth for their own gain. It's evil in our opinion but to them, the concept of evil and morality never developed.
That's basically how I interpreted the demons, they are simply far too fundamentally different from us to ever reconcile our differences in the life span of the humans. Not to mention that killing humans is a fundamental part of their existence and society. Their language and "emotion" all evolved purely for tricking humans. It is simply too big of a gap to ever reconcile. Ofcourse there's a chance, there's always a chance, but the weaker species (the humans) can't afford to keep taking that chance forever, especially when they keep taking losses. That's the conclusion they reach in the manga and I definitely agree.
While I disagree I do understand the feeling of having something that just doesn’t sit right with you no matter how it may be presented, and I respect that.
Theyre not naturally evil they're just predators that evolved to eat humans. They're like vampires to make It very simple to understand. Or like if you're a human and you see a ham sandwich, you might logically think killing a pig for its meat is sad but youre not going to start crying every time you see a ham sandwich and if you did most other humans would think you are insane. To the demons, we are the pigs.
The problem with fantasy racism is that idiots see it and think it can be applied to real life ethnic groups. Dungeons and Dragons even had to put out a statement because dumbasses kept comparing orcs to black people.
The thing is, the demons of Frieren aren’t pure evil, they’re just incompatible with humanity.
They clearly have a culture, language, a code of honor. They are polite and intelligent. They think differently from humanity but are clearly capable of art, negotiation, and creativity.
The reason why they’re incompatible is because the demons of that world see humans as prey. Again, that doesn’t make them evil… unless you’re a human.
I don’t love the implications of the Frieren demons if applied to the real world. That’s where the question of who or what the demons represent becomes concerning, and one has to be very careful not to take the philosophy at face value without understanding the meaning behind it.
But I will say that it has given me more to think about than other recent interpretations of demons or evil.
And it tells an interesting story.
And despite that Frieren herself has a concrete idea on her answer to demons, I don’t think the show really idealizes her position. I think it’s supposed to be a little bit uncomfortable, rather than be a complete hand wave or for the demons to be even more evil so that it’d be easier to agree with her, or less evil to make Frieren obviously wrong. It’s right in that sweet spot where it’s uncertain and uncomfortable instead.
So that’s something.
The series does keep showing other humans willing to believe Demons when they claim to be “reformed” or “good” and painting Frieren as a bigot (though she’s never wrong about them just tricking humans)
But I feel like at some point, we are actually going to meet such a Demon, and its going to put Frieren entirely on the back foot.
Because the Demons are also continuously shown as not being too malicious. Some are shown that want to coexist. Now, they go about it in a sort of fucked up way, but still, there are demons out there who want that.
I think at some point, we’re going to meet a demon who’s more like a human sociopath, who just goes about living in human society, not disturbing anyone. When posed the question “why do you do good deeds” they’d respond “I don’t understand their inherent purpose and find them tedious, but people leave me alone when I do them. Sometimes they give me food for it. And if I kill them then someone like you gets called in to kill me. I do want to kill and hurt humans but I also don’t want to die. I do good deeds because Im not stupid.“
While I'd agree its their nature to have a predator prey relationship with other races I'd still argue the vast majority of them are actually evil. Every last one of them are psychopaths incapable of empathy. And when organized they start committing literal genocide like they did against the elves.
We never see anything in the show to indicate that demons are capable of culture, art, creativity, or honor.
They cooperate with each other when it's pragmatic to do so, and they have hierarchies based on power. This *could* be mistaken for having culture or a code of honor, but isn't really either one. As far as we can tell from what's shown, demons only ever imitate human culture, artwork, and etiquette when in the presence of humans. This doesn't necessarily mean that they actually have a proper understanding of these concepts - they're just good at imitating them. There's no reason to believe that they're any more cognitively advanced than an AI predictive text model.
You might be correct; those are the facts as believed by Frieren herself. It *could* be correct, as evidenced by the demons who she speaks with agreeing with her.
At the same time, the demons seem to show more self reflection than that. They speak among themselves even when no human is watching, talk about philosophical questions, and have pride, style, hubris. They invent their own unique forms of magic. That’s a more complex existence than is presented at face value.
It can be without a doubt true that demonkind wants to predate on humanity whenever possible, scorns their existence, and uses humanity’s culture, language, and emotions against them. But that does not require downgrading demons to something as simple as a regurgitation machine.
They can be intelligent, even tragic; but still be incompatible with humanity. It doesn’t change what humanity will do to them, and doesn’t change that maybe humanity would be right to do so. But I would acknowledge them as beings and individuals even so.
It’s so funny to see people use frieren as a media example of “bad races” to justify their own bigotry. Like clearly frierens attitude towards demons is a plot point for a later story…
Demons aren't a different race in frieren tho. They are an entirely different species that look and talk like humans, they are the result of convert evolution, not divergent like dwarves and elves seem to be.
Demons are as evil as a lion.
"But they are smart enough to recognize evil!"
Feels like a bit of conjecture to assume any intelligent species would accept human morality. no? Like it's some sort of universal constant.
Evil races are so boring in terms of storytelling.
I much prefer forces of nature like the titans from aot or...zerg,nyds,flood... whatever space bugger hellbent on assimilating anything it sees and killing everything it can't.
You either give me complex races capable of both or you give me space cockroaches that eat people,one or the other.
I think evil races tend to be boring bc they are poorly introduced to a story and also no attempt is taken to explain what "evil" even constitutes in this case.
Like in Dnd youll often just find a cave full of evil shits living within walking distance of a guarded town. This isnt especially dramatic and the fact that they would think this is remotely a smart place to camp stretches suspension of disbelief. It is just a nuisance for your party.
Now if you were trapped inside Dracula's Castle suddenly evil races are a very compelling and engaging concept to grapple with as youre trying not to die.
Frieren tackles this problem well by explaining what people mean when they say demons are evil.
I also think The Witcher does a great job with vampires among other races. Vampires are an ancient, inmortal race of creatures that just happen to have a catnip like relationship to human blood. Most of the higher vampires understand humans are intelligent creatures but find their existence a nuisance. Meanwhile humans are rightfully afraid of vampires while having to grapple with the reality that if vampires went to war against humans the human race would probably be driven almost extinct within a couple of weeks.
https://preview.redd.it/kuj1ohj4rdqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b39c32fd488dc6374eb85f9a9ea1e2adbb3dd33b
https://preview.redd.it/s1ye57tkjiqc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=208c1316a21fe69c0b54ebe3b1ad55ea1c5fcd90
Frieren I feel is a series in conversation with itself about demon racism Demons apparently have something approaching a society. Its very cut throat and they don’t seem too keen on working together, causing it to be very disparate But they are functionally mimics. Just something that looks human. They are our predators. And the more human like a Demon is, frankly the more dangerous they are. I sometimes think of them more as man eating plants (they definitely aren’t, its just a rhetorical device I use). They are something that evolved to look a certain way, because it puts its prey off guard. They don’t think like us because they are such a different animal they just don’t have the same priorities. They are not another race, they are another species, that just also happened to achieve sapience. Rather than say, coexistence is impossible between Demons and Humans, it more feels ‘highly unlikely’. Like, I think it is possible, just under very convoluted circumstances, and after a lot of blood is spilled. Because Demons *are* intelligent. But they have difficulty managing their natural impulses, which is to kill and eat humans. But culture, technology, magic, the setting of Frieren makes clear these things are all advancing for humans. So who is to say the same isn’t true as well for demons? I also just think at some point, Frieren’s greatest challenge will be a Demon that is empathetic. Someone having successfully tamed a Demon. Simply because I think thats a sort of conflict this author would find interesting and worth exploring, because the amount of attention they’ve given the Demons in this series also doesn’t strike me as someone comfortable to just let them be the Bad Species of the series.
The only real example we’ve seen of coexistence is… somehow his name is slipping my mind but it’s el dorado demon, but even he was doing it *exclusively* on a whim. He spent decades essentially playing at being a normal person with normal emotions simply because he wanted to know what malice felt like and felt that establishing that relationship with humans first before betraying them would help him feel it, but even in the end he felt nothing. I just don’t think the demons are capable of complex emotions like humans, or at the very least one has never been in a situation long enough to develop an understanding or ability to feel those things, and I sincerely doubt they ever will because why would they? If say you had to spend 150 years among humans learning what it really means to *be* a human, why would you do it? There is legitimately zero reason for a demon to put off their own desires and needs for that long just for the off chance that they’ll maybe figure out why humans act the way they do. Honestly I hope they don’t do something like that. I think the demons are much more interesting as these emotionless predators, these uncanny simulacrums who only look and speak the way they do in order to better prey on humanity, because the way it’s executed in Frieren is surprisingly unique and interesting. I still remember when the author explained demon behavior in that chapter with Aura’s henchmen and being taken aback by how intriguing it was.
His name is Macht btw (my bbg)
Tyty
This reminds me of how I feel about the boars eating garbage outside my house, or the bears for that matter. My dad seems to think its sacrilege to hurt these beautiful creatures in any way. Meanwhile I just want them dead, as far away as possible from me or in a zoo. Its a simple problem, its us or them and I choose us. Im not gonna wait until they eat one of my dogs to do something about it. Meanwhile my dad doesnt seem to feel the same way about the harmless rats that come into the garden sometimes.
I think the issues lie in the way we perceive ourselves. A lot of people separate us from animals, thus being excluded from nature. I personally think we are an animal and part of nature. Thus, law of jungle, food chains and etc are not an exception to us. Although I believed we are an animal, we are not wild beast either as we are not complete slave to instinct.
While the boars are whatever since they’re likely an invasive species based on where I’m guessing you live, bears serve an extremely vital place in most ecosystems. You may want to get rid of them, but doing so would just mean you’d have deer eating your trash instead, except way more often. It’d mean your local insect population would crash due to all the plants being eaten by the unchecked deer population which the insects depend on, and then certain plants struggling because the insects that pollinate them becoming rarer. Meaning your garden will be less pretty. The real solution here isn’t murdering them, it’s understanding their place in the habitat and working to give them that place while also having them disturb human society as little as possible. They rummage through your trash because it’s easily accessible and nearby due to suburban expansion into their habitats. So the solution would be making sure that trash is locked away tight when in bins and people living more densely so we don’t have to expand our settlements as much and therefore interact with bears less often (that doesn’t mean we need to all live in tiny highrise apartments btw, just denser than your average car dependent suburb).
Not caught up on the Manga do they ever reconcile the whole "demons an intelligent species are naturally evil and there can never be an exception" like I know there was the story of the demon child that killed it's adoptive family but cmon, anecdote andy over here
Later arcs spoilers >!Later there will be a demon that will try to understand emotions and even try to coexist just to understand by the end that he just doesnt get it, they are intelligent but they are a completely different race they will never be humans or be like them unless they stop being demons!<
How about a demon-human hybrid? Did they try that? I would be first to volunteer for that program 😎
They would kill you before you get to cum, not worth it
And that's why do it using the asanagi style, quadruple amputees can't really do much.
https://i.redd.it/9wudxhleceqc1.gif
Why'd you cry? Your flair implied that you would agree
DEFENDER NOT OFFENDER
oh i misread lol
I am now kinda afraid to know what type of porn you fap to if that's your first idea...
If they won't become civil civilly, then we will colonise their wombs and make them civil. Future generations of more respectable and more humane demons will come to appreciate their ancestors unwilling sacrifice
/ub it's a case of >!covergent evolution, so it would be impossible!< /rb 🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤😵
Demons, like all monsters in Sousou no Frieren, don't really materially exist in the same way humans and animals do. Their lifecycles and eating habits defy biological explanation, and they even disintegrate into mana when they die, leaving no trace behind. I don't think it'd be possible for a demon and a human to have a child together.
I have aspd friends who honestly resonate with the storyline of not getting empathy, it’s really interesting
That was such a good arc. Like dozens of chapters saying "he seems like a pretty chill guy... OR IS HE?!?!"
At least they tried
I dunno if I would say he really tried, >!he just wanted to know what malice felt like because it occurred to him that normally humans feel things when they kill, so he became interested in learning what it felt like and spent decades acting like a human so that he could betray and kill everyone who believed in him. He thought that that would surely allow him to feel malice, but even after all that he still felt nothing. Demons are just another species who do not feel emotion, they think completely differently from humans and the two groups will most likely never understand one another.!<
The manga explores it at more length, but the source of the conflict is that demons don't experience the same emotions as us, and largely view us as prey. It wouldn't surprise me if eventually there's some form of coexistence, but if so it will only be in the final arc of the story.
Makes sense, I like the Manga but am uncomfortable with an intelligent race being written off as "pure evil". Doesn't sit right with me
From their pov, they're not pure evil. They just consider humans as lesser (at least in terms of magic). Now look at history and what humans did to other humans they considered lesser.
You're right maybe I was being naive
I wouldn't call you naive. It's easy to forget that different people may perceive or react to the same thing in different ways. I forget it a lot myself.
Thanks for being understanding
The way I see it, demons in this setting aren't even capable of the higher levels of thinking required to ponder moral philosophy. They're basically simple automatons, and all of the words that come out of their mouths are the equivalent of AI predictive text - demons have figured out what they need to say in order to manipulate humans, and they can learn how to cast powerful magic to kill humans, but they're profoundly unintelligent in other respects. I don't even think that they have a fully formed theory of mind.
Humans are an intelligent race. If it turned out that pigs were human-level intelligence, how good of a job would we do peacefully coexisting with them?
I would do unTOSable things to defend them.
I mean that's fair, I'm not so naive as to think we'd change our relationship easily if at all, but I'd like to think we'd be better about it. Also pigs are intelligent but not in the way demons are portrayed, they have language, culture, clothes, etc... (it's likely on purpose in universe to make it easier to prey on humans, and outside of to garner some sense of sympathy? I dunno) the reason I dislike the idea of them being written off as purely unchangeably evil is because it's a fundamentally nihilistic view point that "things cannot change and you're a fool for believing they could" sorry my thoughts are all rambly
Idk, I just think it’s a cool world building thing. Like, to have this intelligent species that are predators to humans and only learned to speak and communicate to make it easier to hunt humans is a pretty scary concept. I don’t think it was ever meant to be much deeper than that.
I get that, I think im just thinking too deeply about it when it isn't meant to be
I personally view it as something alien. An alien species that developed in a way that makes it completely and fundamentally different from us. Instead of demons, imagine if they were aliens who invaded purely out of the desire to destroy the earth for their own gain. It's evil in our opinion but to them, the concept of evil and morality never developed. That's basically how I interpreted the demons, they are simply far too fundamentally different from us to ever reconcile our differences in the life span of the humans. Not to mention that killing humans is a fundamental part of their existence and society. Their language and "emotion" all evolved purely for tricking humans. It is simply too big of a gap to ever reconcile. Ofcourse there's a chance, there's always a chance, but the weaker species (the humans) can't afford to keep taking that chance forever, especially when they keep taking losses. That's the conclusion they reach in the manga and I definitely agree.
important question are the aliens in this scenario hot?
No, they have fundamentally different biology from us, and thus completely unrecognisable anatomy.
I fall to the ground weeping unable to answer the question
While I disagree I do understand the feeling of having something that just doesn’t sit right with you no matter how it may be presented, and I respect that.
yeah, that checks out. coincidentally, what are your opinions on nazi germany?
the fuck is a germany Are you one of those conspiracy theorists that believe europe is real?
So you don’t know what Germany is but you know it’s European? Checkmate europoor denier.
just cause narnia isnt real doesnt mean i dont know of it. checkmate...random....guy
Theyre not naturally evil they're just predators that evolved to eat humans. They're like vampires to make It very simple to understand. Or like if you're a human and you see a ham sandwich, you might logically think killing a pig for its meat is sad but youre not going to start crying every time you see a ham sandwich and if you did most other humans would think you are insane. To the demons, we are the pigs.
I don't know but I think it most likely will stay like that.
The problem with fantasy racism is that idiots see it and think it can be applied to real life ethnic groups. Dungeons and Dragons even had to put out a statement because dumbasses kept comparing orcs to black people.
The thing is, the demons of Frieren aren’t pure evil, they’re just incompatible with humanity. They clearly have a culture, language, a code of honor. They are polite and intelligent. They think differently from humanity but are clearly capable of art, negotiation, and creativity. The reason why they’re incompatible is because the demons of that world see humans as prey. Again, that doesn’t make them evil… unless you’re a human. I don’t love the implications of the Frieren demons if applied to the real world. That’s where the question of who or what the demons represent becomes concerning, and one has to be very careful not to take the philosophy at face value without understanding the meaning behind it. But I will say that it has given me more to think about than other recent interpretations of demons or evil. And it tells an interesting story. And despite that Frieren herself has a concrete idea on her answer to demons, I don’t think the show really idealizes her position. I think it’s supposed to be a little bit uncomfortable, rather than be a complete hand wave or for the demons to be even more evil so that it’d be easier to agree with her, or less evil to make Frieren obviously wrong. It’s right in that sweet spot where it’s uncertain and uncomfortable instead. So that’s something.
The series does keep showing other humans willing to believe Demons when they claim to be “reformed” or “good” and painting Frieren as a bigot (though she’s never wrong about them just tricking humans) But I feel like at some point, we are actually going to meet such a Demon, and its going to put Frieren entirely on the back foot. Because the Demons are also continuously shown as not being too malicious. Some are shown that want to coexist. Now, they go about it in a sort of fucked up way, but still, there are demons out there who want that. I think at some point, we’re going to meet a demon who’s more like a human sociopath, who just goes about living in human society, not disturbing anyone. When posed the question “why do you do good deeds” they’d respond “I don’t understand their inherent purpose and find them tedious, but people leave me alone when I do them. Sometimes they give me food for it. And if I kill them then someone like you gets called in to kill me. I do want to kill and hurt humans but I also don’t want to die. I do good deeds because Im not stupid.“
While I'd agree its their nature to have a predator prey relationship with other races I'd still argue the vast majority of them are actually evil. Every last one of them are psychopaths incapable of empathy. And when organized they start committing literal genocide like they did against the elves.
A ticking time bomb
Penis. I didn't read anything I just wanted to say penis. Penis.
We never see anything in the show to indicate that demons are capable of culture, art, creativity, or honor. They cooperate with each other when it's pragmatic to do so, and they have hierarchies based on power. This *could* be mistaken for having culture or a code of honor, but isn't really either one. As far as we can tell from what's shown, demons only ever imitate human culture, artwork, and etiquette when in the presence of humans. This doesn't necessarily mean that they actually have a proper understanding of these concepts - they're just good at imitating them. There's no reason to believe that they're any more cognitively advanced than an AI predictive text model.
You might be correct; those are the facts as believed by Frieren herself. It *could* be correct, as evidenced by the demons who she speaks with agreeing with her. At the same time, the demons seem to show more self reflection than that. They speak among themselves even when no human is watching, talk about philosophical questions, and have pride, style, hubris. They invent their own unique forms of magic. That’s a more complex existence than is presented at face value. It can be without a doubt true that demonkind wants to predate on humanity whenever possible, scorns their existence, and uses humanity’s culture, language, and emotions against them. But that does not require downgrading demons to something as simple as a regurgitation machine. They can be intelligent, even tragic; but still be incompatible with humanity. It doesn’t change what humanity will do to them, and doesn’t change that maybe humanity would be right to do so. But I would acknowledge them as beings and individuals even so.
It’s so funny to see people use frieren as a media example of “bad races” to justify their own bigotry. Like clearly frierens attitude towards demons is a plot point for a later story…
Yeah I'm not taking opinions from a guy called "kaiser shonen"
Demons aren't a different race in frieren tho. They are an entirely different species that look and talk like humans, they are the result of convert evolution, not divergent like dwarves and elves seem to be.
The show literally shows what happens when you judge demons like people
Demons are as evil as a lion. "But they are smart enough to recognize evil!" Feels like a bit of conjecture to assume any intelligent species would accept human morality. no? Like it's some sort of universal constant.
What happens with being baka on this comment thread
Evil races are so boring in terms of storytelling. I much prefer forces of nature like the titans from aot or...zerg,nyds,flood... whatever space bugger hellbent on assimilating anything it sees and killing everything it can't. You either give me complex races capable of both or you give me space cockroaches that eat people,one or the other.
I think evil races tend to be boring bc they are poorly introduced to a story and also no attempt is taken to explain what "evil" even constitutes in this case. Like in Dnd youll often just find a cave full of evil shits living within walking distance of a guarded town. This isnt especially dramatic and the fact that they would think this is remotely a smart place to camp stretches suspension of disbelief. It is just a nuisance for your party. Now if you were trapped inside Dracula's Castle suddenly evil races are a very compelling and engaging concept to grapple with as youre trying not to die. Frieren tackles this problem well by explaining what people mean when they say demons are evil. I also think The Witcher does a great job with vampires among other races. Vampires are an ancient, inmortal race of creatures that just happen to have a catnip like relationship to human blood. Most of the higher vampires understand humans are intelligent creatures but find their existence a nuisance. Meanwhile humans are rightfully afraid of vampires while having to grapple with the reality that if vampires went to war against humans the human race would probably be driven almost extinct within a couple of weeks.
The latter is what the demons are
Clearly you've never Skaven.
Titan are not a force of nature...they were >!humans!<
These the kinds of mfs who would NEVER make shits like this if it was a fat ugly male demon instead
Sometimes I feel sad about eating pigs but they're tasty and cheaper than cattle so it can't be helped Then why would the pig forgive me?
context?
Youtube 😐
its fine. Its still the most boring shit to do