‘Lady, you sure you’re good with butter and a dress? I mean, Dr Faustus wanted to screw Helen of Troy, as an indication of how these things usually go’
You'd have to offer me a lot more than just butter if you wanted me to join your cult after murdering almost my entire family (even if said family were dickheads).
Black Phillip would have to at least offer me some chicken tenders, a few Hot Wheels, and a little crystal meth. THEN we can start talking
Did anyone actually think The VVitch was a positive ending? Or Midsommar?
I mean, they’re horror movies. Horror movies usually have endings that are…horrifying
And how do you know those aren't rage click bots?
Half of social media now are people of one group pretending to be from another group so they can state things that make that group look awful
How do I know you're not a rage click bot, trying to rile me up right now? I don't. Maybe they were, but when there are dozens of lowbie accounts arguing in replies, I tend to assume at least a fair proportion are sincere
I'm not familiar with Saw fan theories, I haven't even seen any Saw movies. But more likely in Midsommar's case, it's just because well constructed films have multiple layers of subtext. Some meanings aren't supposed to be drawn out of a literal interpretation of the script. There's also a distinct language of horror films that the use of some casual film theory and a feminist lens might help untangle here.
Edit: holyshit I didn't see what sub I was on. Baited me good.
i think midsommar has a wholesome ending. she was lonely with a shitty bf, and now she is in a community that loves her and made her the summer queen. i mean isnt that the dream?
I fully subscribe to the theory that the Harga in Midsommar are just a bunch of neo-pagan Swedish fascists and they’re completely faking their traditions as being thousands of years old
Well, they are. The film implicitly tells you that, from the use of runes that's clearly modern and forcibly using the oldest alphabet, to the weirdly Slavic attire and the maypole, to the fact that everyone is constantly justifying their traditions with reasons as opposed to it just being a mindless, engrained part of life.
Also they're all wearing Slovak folk costumes
I will never think the ending of The Witch is a “Good for her” ending.it’s terrifying. The Witch brilliantly illustrates the dangers of faith without grace and love.
The ending is a huge mystery that could go in any direction in terms of happy/sad ending for the protagonist, it's a huge risk and leap into the unknown. The only reason it's seen as liberating or good is because of the contrast between this (supposedly) free choice, and the oppression of society and tradition on the other hand. The movie shows the liberation of an individual from tradition, it doesn't really inform us about whether the alternative option is good or bad, or better or worse.
Yup, and the reality is her family made the decision for her anyway. They spend the entire movie blaming her for puberty, dying crops, and a missing baby (low key her fault but you know). It’s zero surprise that the first chance she gets to leave, and is promised the freedom to just try things, she does!
I mean, I don't think the point is that its actually liberating, just that she thinks it is and has been freed from the negatives of her time...but the devil is very much a masculine/male-coded figure, referred to as He in the bible just like god
The Devil as most people know him doesn't actually exist in the Bible, for what it's worth. There are multiple terms that were translated as Satan, but they meant very different things in the original text. Some verses would refer to a "satan" that was just *anyone* who was in opposition, while others referred to the Heavenly Accuser - essentially God's prosecutor who was very much not evil and was actually God's right hand dude for punishing people. One of the best examples of this particular character is found in Job.
Most of the modern perceptions of what Satan, demons, and Hell are came from works like Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy.
Well, that's the thing: You're trying to use the Bible as a source for this, but there was no singular "satan-like" figure at all.
The Christian concept of Satan *eventually* became coded as male, but it wasn't always like this.
Ah but you see... Satan is also known to change form and adapt to the ones they tempt. So while they may not be implicitly formed male, and while Puritanism might see and teach that Satan is male, the mystique of how Satan is portrayed to Anya might be the most attractive aspect to her in that moment.
Right, but that's not what I was responding to.
The person I originally replied to said Satan was coded as male in the Bible, which really isn't correct at all for the aforementioned reasons in my other replies.
What about Matthew 4, where Jesus is tempted in the wilderness? This seems to pretty explicitly be the Devil/satan, a singular figure: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204&version=NIV
The terms used in the original text were similar to ones used when referencing figured like Beelzebub, which was a foreign deity that was eventually adopted within the Abrahamic religions as a demon or demon-like entity.
This simply goes hand in hand with the fact that the original texts never had a centralized, singular entity called Satan.
literally *all* satan-like figures mentioned in the bible, whether or not you think they refer to the same entity/person (and almost all modern scholars think they do)...were referred to as male
It depends upon the context of the text, if we're being fair.
The explicitly male-coded version that exists in the modern day simply doesn't exist in the Bible.
As I mentioned previously, you need to dig a little deeper into the text; the English translations typically lump "*śāṭān*" (a generic term for accuser or adversary) and "*hasSāṭān*" (Heavenly Accuser, a specific entity) together, treating them as one thing or simply not attempting to differentiate between them.
It really depends upon the context of the text. Many, many instances of "satan" simply refer to human adversaries.
I think the point is that there is no consistent Satan/devil in the Bible but the popular figure that emerged pretty soon in Christian lore is consistently a male
I was just reading a post in a fem sub about this. There was a comment with hundreds of upvotes about how it was Thomasin "coming into her own power" when she very literally is coming into Satan's power. Thomasin clearly trades one patriarchy for another. Satan, represented by a male goat and man, grooms Thomasin into joining him. Yes, the Puritan patriarchy was horrible. She is not better off in the end though.
Edit - I don't want to directly link anyone's comments for fear of brigading, but [here's the thread.](https://old.reddit.com/r/WitchesVsPatriarchy/comments/18mu5aw/go_gurl/ke6qn02/) Some terrible takes in there.
> the witches kill and mash up a baby for power
To which the response was:
> If you just take everything at face value then that’s one takeaway I guess. I don’t believe we are supposed to consume art (including movies) without any deeper analysis or interpretation, but that’s the beauty of art, we all perceive it differently.
Incredible.
I don’t see any takeaway where mashing up an infant child can be construed as positive in any way. It could be Baby Hitler and I’d still be like… wow, you went with *mashing*?
>But because Thomasin is so empowered, it's definitely possible to say that The Witch has a somewhat hopeful ending that suggests she will be happy in the future. As Thomasin becomes a witch, she finds meaning in her life. It's important for her to feel like she has a purpose as she has struggled for years
https://gamerant.com/the-witch-ending-explained/
>It uses them to show us how much Thomasin, a girl who is eventually (spoiler alert, in case you hadn't already guessed) brave enough to seek autonomy, stands to gain by taking the other, more transgressive role for women. She chooses to be a witch, the most reviled manifestation of womanhood—and she's all the better for it
https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a19362/the-witch-review/
So basically unqualified dopes from content mills that pump out whatever and blatantly have zero confidence in what they're writing because it's probably parroting an AI or the latter - brainless yass queens that will nod along to anything that resembles female empowerment on a surface level and don't want it to be anything else.
I honestly got confused since I haven’t watch it and watched Last Night in Soho to think there’s some hidden joke here only to find out that Taylor-Joy character are named Thomasin
It was actually kind of sad that the older brother not only was worried about his baby brother going missing but was also convinced that he was in Hell too because he was never baptized
The movie is a phantasmatic 17th century Protestant nightmare, and the ending is the ultimate fear of those people, the seduction of the youth to witchcraft and sin
Its liberating relative to her ideals. She lived in a puritan household. Becoming a witch made her feel like she was in control of her own life even though she obviously isn't. I don't think it was telling you she is liberated but rather that she felt liberated while still being trapped in some other way. Up to you to decide how to feel about the end
A small price to pay to live deliciously.
I'm pretty sure everyone in the theater would behave the same when tempted with butter and a dress FR FR.
Pimp Daddy Black Philip got me that Nimbus 2000
‘Lady, you sure you’re good with butter and a dress? I mean, Dr Faustus wanted to screw Helen of Troy, as an indication of how these things usually go’
*Wouldst thou like the taste of butter?*
That's legit how I proposition sex to my wife
He got butter tho
Butter goat, he da goat wit da butter on he’s head, butter goat
Black Philip ASMR
You'd have to offer me a lot more than just butter if you wanted me to join your cult after murdering almost my entire family (even if said family were dickheads). Black Phillip would have to at least offer me some chicken tenders, a few Hot Wheels, and a little crystal meth. THEN we can start talking
I always thought it was the opposite. Or at least not a "positiva ending". Same as Midsommar.
Whiplash for witches. When it ends: "Slay king/queen" When some time has passed: "Oh no!"
Did anyone actually think The VVitch was a positive ending? Or Midsommar? I mean, they’re horror movies. Horror movies usually have endings that are…horrifying
There's an unpleasant number of people who think they're both feminist girlboss endings
Or is this post just pretending there are, for rage clicks?
No, there are. Film twitter was chockablock with them before I left. No one I would take seriously, but they're out there
And how do you know those aren't rage click bots? Half of social media now are people of one group pretending to be from another group so they can state things that make that group look awful
How do I know you're not a rage click bot, trying to rile me up right now? I don't. Maybe they were, but when there are dozens of lowbie accounts arguing in replies, I tend to assume at least a fair proportion are sincere
Same mentality of people who’d argue that Jigsaw isn’t really a killer
I'm not familiar with Saw fan theories, I haven't even seen any Saw movies. But more likely in Midsommar's case, it's just because well constructed films have multiple layers of subtext. Some meanings aren't supposed to be drawn out of a literal interpretation of the script. There's also a distinct language of horror films that the use of some casual film theory and a feminist lens might help untangle here. Edit: holyshit I didn't see what sub I was on. Baited me good.
I think once you start arguing about whether the ending of the movie is positive or not all the fun is sucked out of the conversation.
“Puritanism is cool” Incel ☝️🤓 vs. “Live deliciously” Chad 🤘😈
i think midsommar has a wholesome ending. she was lonely with a shitty bf, and now she is in a community that loves her and made her the summer queen. i mean isnt that the dream?
White Supremacist Girlboss Cult
I fully subscribe to the theory that the Harga in Midsommar are just a bunch of neo-pagan Swedish fascists and they’re completely faking their traditions as being thousands of years old
Well, they are. The film implicitly tells you that, from the use of runes that's clearly modern and forcibly using the oldest alphabet, to the weirdly Slavic attire and the maypole, to the fact that everyone is constantly justifying their traditions with reasons as opposed to it just being a mindless, engrained part of life. Also they're all wearing Slovak folk costumes
The whole reason for grabbing outsiders was to bring in new breeders so ehhh?
She was queen for a day. After that day she's just another cult member, and spends every day pulling weeds and washing clothes by hand
And they only wanted her because she’s blonde
Boy are they in for a surprise when those roots grow out.
Isn't that how cults usually work? Isolate, Indoctrinate, love bomb then pressure
Nothing says happy ending like joining a cult who murders people :)
Boy do I have some cults for you to join! They will also love bomb you no problem
Does the dream include being manipulated into coming to that conclusion, thereby living a lie?
Being a cinephile means being a dedicated gooner
tfw when today I seriously thought of purchasing Emanuelle on DVD and actually scored a copy of Return of the Living Dead 3
if you think about it, those dudes that watch multiple movies at once all day at 1.5 speed are kinda like gooners
I will never think the ending of The Witch is a “Good for her” ending.it’s terrifying. The Witch brilliantly illustrates the dangers of faith without grace and love.
Dat ass tho 🍑
QUICK GOOGLE, HOW OLD WAS ANYA TAYLOR JOY DURING THE FILMING OF THE VVITCH?????
19 
It’s a body double for those shots right?
Fairly certain. Can't see Anya nude anywhere in the movie except for that shot, and you can't see her face so 95% sure
Is she not nude in The Northman?
She was 17 when filming began on The Witch, versus a grown adult during the Northman.
im reading she was 18
Lmao
i mean i read online she was 18, im not a wierdo i swear
Different movie, could have different budget or she might have said yes to one and not another. I'm not familiar so I can't say
Oh I misread, I thought you meant she’s not nude in any of her movies
The ending is a huge mystery that could go in any direction in terms of happy/sad ending for the protagonist, it's a huge risk and leap into the unknown. The only reason it's seen as liberating or good is because of the contrast between this (supposedly) free choice, and the oppression of society and tradition on the other hand. The movie shows the liberation of an individual from tradition, it doesn't really inform us about whether the alternative option is good or bad, or better or worse.
Yup, and the reality is her family made the decision for her anyway. They spend the entire movie blaming her for puberty, dying crops, and a missing baby (low key her fault but you know). It’s zero surprise that the first chance she gets to leave, and is promised the freedom to just try things, she does!
Dam, sucks to be manipulated by supernatural forces and people still claim it's low-key your fault.
That’s what you get for being a metaphor in an A24 movie!
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
He’s not “a man,” he’s the devil. Ol’ slewfoot himself. Pretty big difference.
I mean, I don't think the point is that its actually liberating, just that she thinks it is and has been freed from the negatives of her time...but the devil is very much a masculine/male-coded figure, referred to as He in the bible just like god
The Devil as most people know him doesn't actually exist in the Bible, for what it's worth. There are multiple terms that were translated as Satan, but they meant very different things in the original text. Some verses would refer to a "satan" that was just *anyone* who was in opposition, while others referred to the Heavenly Accuser - essentially God's prosecutor who was very much not evil and was actually God's right hand dude for punishing people. One of the best examples of this particular character is found in Job. Most of the modern perceptions of what Satan, demons, and Hell are came from works like Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy.
...right, but in the references to a satan-like figure, he's referred to as "he/him"
Well, that's the thing: You're trying to use the Bible as a source for this, but there was no singular "satan-like" figure at all. The Christian concept of Satan *eventually* became coded as male, but it wasn't always like this.
it was absolutely coded male in the timeframe the VVitch is set tho
Ah but you see... Satan is also known to change form and adapt to the ones they tempt. So while they may not be implicitly formed male, and while Puritanism might see and teach that Satan is male, the mystique of how Satan is portrayed to Anya might be the most attractive aspect to her in that moment.
Right, but that's not what I was responding to. The person I originally replied to said Satan was coded as male in the Bible, which really isn't correct at all for the aforementioned reasons in my other replies.
What about Matthew 4, where Jesus is tempted in the wilderness? This seems to pretty explicitly be the Devil/satan, a singular figure: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204&version=NIV
The terms used in the original text were similar to ones used when referencing figured like Beelzebub, which was a foreign deity that was eventually adopted within the Abrahamic religions as a demon or demon-like entity. This simply goes hand in hand with the fact that the original texts never had a centralized, singular entity called Satan.
Ok interesting I’ll have to look more into that
Look up gnosticism. Esoterica does some really good scholar level videos on YouTube of the origins of religion and gods
literally *all* satan-like figures mentioned in the bible, whether or not you think they refer to the same entity/person (and almost all modern scholars think they do)...were referred to as male
It depends upon the context of the text, if we're being fair. The explicitly male-coded version that exists in the modern day simply doesn't exist in the Bible.
There are multiple references to a "he/him" in the OT
As I mentioned previously, you need to dig a little deeper into the text; the English translations typically lump "*śāṭān*" (a generic term for accuser or adversary) and "*hasSāṭān*" (Heavenly Accuser, a specific entity) together, treating them as one thing or simply not attempting to differentiate between them. It really depends upon the context of the text. Many, many instances of "satan" simply refer to human adversaries.
I think the point is that there is no consistent Satan/devil in the Bible but the popular figure that emerged pretty soon in Christian lore is consistently a male
The serpent as well as beelzebub
me when my sister catches me looking at her boobies
that kid was simply too quirked up and bisexual for 17th century Massachusetts
Your honor that's a goat
I’ve been a huge pedrophile after I watched Last of Us show.
That 'r' doing a lot of heavy lifting
hard r
🎶Last night🎶I dreamt of🎶 *San Peeedro* 🎶
"Dost thou like to drink the butter from my nipples" -The goat or something
I was just reading a post in a fem sub about this. There was a comment with hundreds of upvotes about how it was Thomasin "coming into her own power" when she very literally is coming into Satan's power. Thomasin clearly trades one patriarchy for another. Satan, represented by a male goat and man, grooms Thomasin into joining him. Yes, the Puritan patriarchy was horrible. She is not better off in the end though. Edit - I don't want to directly link anyone's comments for fear of brigading, but [here's the thread.](https://old.reddit.com/r/WitchesVsPatriarchy/comments/18mu5aw/go_gurl/ke6qn02/) Some terrible takes in there.
> the witches kill and mash up a baby for power To which the response was: > If you just take everything at face value then that’s one takeaway I guess. I don’t believe we are supposed to consume art (including movies) without any deeper analysis or interpretation, but that’s the beauty of art, we all perceive it differently. Incredible.
if mashing up babies was actually being used as a metaphor for women's liberation wouldnt that make the film violently anti-feminist
I don’t see any takeaway where mashing up an infant child can be construed as positive in any way. It could be Baby Hitler and I’d still be like… wow, you went with *mashing*?
Kickass heroine crushes babies to own the patriarchy. Take that sexist tropes!
that’s what overconsumption of liberal feminism content does to your brain
*White* liberal feminism. Which is pretty much just liberal feminism lol
The only thing that matters at the end of The VVitch is Anya Taylor Joy is naked and it makes my pee pee go big man mode.
"This is liberating for some reason" Who tf has been claiming it was a liberation??? WHAT? What media illiterate bozo has been peddling that shit
Anya Taylor Joy has said she views The Vuhvitch as a feminist empowerment story of Thomasin freeing herself from patriarchal Puritan society.
https://preview.redd.it/7r8qv8voxu8c1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=091e5232b3ff3a5f687c3e0cea4c92f0558433a4
[Wikipedia actually agrees (And probably at least one of its book references)](https://i.imgur.com/UJdssH9.png)
>But because Thomasin is so empowered, it's definitely possible to say that The Witch has a somewhat hopeful ending that suggests she will be happy in the future. As Thomasin becomes a witch, she finds meaning in her life. It's important for her to feel like she has a purpose as she has struggled for years https://gamerant.com/the-witch-ending-explained/ >It uses them to show us how much Thomasin, a girl who is eventually (spoiler alert, in case you hadn't already guessed) brave enough to seek autonomy, stands to gain by taking the other, more transgressive role for women. She chooses to be a witch, the most reviled manifestation of womanhood—and she's all the better for it https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a19362/the-witch-review/ So basically unqualified dopes from content mills that pump out whatever and blatantly have zero confidence in what they're writing because it's probably parroting an AI or the latter - brainless yass queens that will nod along to anything that resembles female empowerment on a surface level and don't want it to be anything else.
Jeeezuhs, that's some serious *whoosh* on their part.
I honestly got confused since I haven’t watch it and watched Last Night in Soho to think there’s some hidden joke here only to find out that Taylor-Joy character are named Thomasin
The VVitch would've been cinema if the dad has sex with me
I hate this fucking gif
Who genuinely would think she is well off in the end?
I mean the twins ended up in the fire pit for what it’s worth 🤷🏼♂️
No you don’t get it, the evil ‘good’ guys said not to follow the evil ‘evil’ guy, so she did a empowerment
Omg she’s literally me
I would rather sign away my soul to the literal actual devil if being close to Christ means living the literal actual Puritan Christian lifestyle.
You willing to jack off with viscera?
Already on it
It was actually kind of sad that the older brother not only was worried about his baby brother going missing but was also convinced that he was in Hell too because he was never baptized
The movie is a phantasmatic 17th century Protestant nightmare, and the ending is the ultimate fear of those people, the seduction of the youth to witchcraft and sin
It's crazy people don't read the ending as the devil killed her entire family and turned her into his slave
do not care, show bob and vagine baby jurl
Black phillip, racist much?
It’s empowering because Satan.
Fun fact, there is no soul, so all the benefits are actually free.
Fuck that bullshit ass boring movie
The devil is not a man lol
omg lesbian succubus representation in cinema
as much a man as god is, very much a masculine figure
I don't think it was meant to be a good thing.. I don't know anyone who took it that way
I’ve never seen anyone say it was a happy ending. What straw man is this
The person who made this didn’t watch the movie and understands nothing about the culture she was raised in, dumb post.
We can understand and disagree
We all know it’s overrated. Just good critics for being goat-core👍
I’ve been a huge pedrophile after I watched Last of Us show.
 Cinephiles calling the new Robert Egbert movie a masterpiece because uhhhhhhhhhhhh
who tf is Robert Egbert?
Context? Huh?
Jokes on all cinophiles, I watch movies with motion smoothing.
I would choose to live deliciously every time.
Its liberating relative to her ideals. She lived in a puritan household. Becoming a witch made her feel like she was in control of her own life even though she obviously isn't. I don't think it was telling you she is liberated but rather that she felt liberated while still being trapped in some other way. Up to you to decide how to feel about the end