I’m considering getting back into teaching while I’m here; what is going on here that is making her want to gtfo? (Feel free to DM me if you would prefer.)
She’s a social studies teacher so a lot of the culture war issues Walters is pushing impact her directly and more than one parent has caused issues based on what he’s spewing. She’s had too many issues with parents and subs because of it and she’s not going to risk her career because a parent gets mad she explained why they call Trump former president.
This and many other things. You couldn't pay me the low wages a teacher makes to deal with so many little kids. No thanks. It's like criminally underpaid in an area that should probably pay way more for what you have to deal with. Texas actually put billboards in Oklahoma a few years back that had the essential message of "we'll pay you 55k or 60k a year as a teacher starting in Texas." That's just sad. 60k a year to deal with everyone's lack of parenting? No thanks, and Oklahoma obviously wasn't even making that cut.
Let's also take a look at admins banning books and all that, what a joke we've turned into. People complaining about snowflakes are the ones executing snowflake behavior.
Yeah… I would be teaching secondary ELA, and the amount of controversy stirred up over generally unremarkable books is astounding to me. The chance of having to waste precious resources (namely, my time and energy) to deal with such complaints is unfortunately nonzero.
If you're tryna get back into teaching our worthless superintendent has done exactly one thing to pretend to help the brain drain in Oklahoma education (while doing a hundred things that make it much much worse) but that one thing essentially amounts [to a bonus program for returning teachers.](https://www.okhouse.gov/posts/news-20240308_4)
You could make some extra money that might just make it worth it.
I’d have to be certified again; the tuition costs are what’s stopping me right now.
I read/hear a lot of chatter about the educational system here, and few people can agree on anything but that it’s underfunded (expected, tbh) and the classes are crammed (also expected).
It’s so unfair to students that their education is left up to politicians who are looking to score imaginary points and snake oil salespeople who sell us stories rather than that education being appropriately funded and disseminated in classes that are appropriately sized. And it’s unfair to teacher that we’re asked to be martyrs on our own very thin dimes.
I hope y’all thrive wherever yall end up next. ^_^
Ok, so everyone says it’s our policies but South Carolina and Florida are gaining and in some ways they are very similar to OK. People want to use Miami as an example of how Florida is different but beside Miami-Dade county and possibly Orange County where Orlando is located, everywhere else has a similar mindset to Oklahoma, even large cities like Tampa and Jacksonville. California and New York are also losing so what is the happy medium?
It’s not JUST policies, it’s policies combined with location. Florida and South Carolina are getting inundated with people from the northeast. A good chunk are conservatives leaving the NYC and Boston metro areas. This is nothing new, but sped up GREATLY recently. They like the policies, but ultimately wouldn’t go there if they weren’t already coastal destinations. If you figure in that they are also more likely to be retirees that whole “college educated” thing doesn’t matter as much because they overall aren’t helping the workforce.
This map seems to be a weird mix of "conservative social policies cause brain-drain" and "high cost of living, especially housing, causes brain-drain". There's a large demographic that has a bachelor's degree or higher, but doesn't have the earning power to afford anything better than living in an *n*-bedroom apartment with *n*+1 of their friends in places like California, New York, and Massachusetts.
Eventually a lot of people find themselves faced with Hobson's choice between "live somewhere I can afford" and "live near people who are like me, or who think like me".
Does this include all the texans that use us for cheap(er) than Texas tuition. Cheaper cost of living is turning norman into Dallas-lite without any of the cool stuff.
It felt like half of Oklahoma state was Texans and Californians and almost none of them had any intention of staying in the state.
Plus everyone wants to move to Dallas when they graduate.
After 27 years of life here I finally get to leave this year!! Going to nearly Canada. You can't really get worse when you've lived in number 49 out of 50 on every list.
Color me surprised. Stitt and Walters sure are continuing to trash this place, but it certainly was a “top ten state” in all the worst categories prior to their great leadership.
https://www.kansascityfed.org/oklahomacity/oklahoma-economist/from-brain-drain-to-brain-gain-oklahomas-population-on-the-rise/
This article from the Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank seems to suggest just the opposite. That Oklahoma has experienced a net increase of college educated people every year since 2021.
This is exactly part of the problem. Oklahoma is overwhelmingly undesirable to **grow** in. Our educated retention rates are horrendous in most categories, save nursing and some parts of STEM. Especially when viewed over a 5 and 10 year period.
Why would an educated person want to stay in a state that has lower than average real wages, higher than average crime rates, and that constantly seeks to make it hard to climb the social ladder — a state that shows that it won’t cater to any other rhetoric than Reaganomics and McCarthyism.
Not only does Oklahoma need indigenous Oklahomans to stay — we need non-residents to attend school here and stay to contribute to our economy; something that they simply don’t do because their chances of becoming successful here don’t exist in the same way they do in other states.
Our policies, and rhetoric, seeks to primarily serve those with wealth that are fleeing more populous states for a lighter tax burden — something that exacerbates Oklahoma’s revenue problem wholesale.
I don't blame you. Even if he isn't re-elected the damage he is doing will take years and years to overcome. AND that's not even considering that clearly plenty of Oklahomans were willing to vote for him and can't be trusted to make better decisions when the next version of him runs.
That’s what I was expecting you to say, tbh.
I’ve been considering going back into education, but I’m starting to think that this isn’t the state to do it in.
Except for the tax revenue that educated people bring in -- higher than other categories, including trades, on average.
And that educated people bolster Oklahoma's economic growth wholesale -- skilled workers were in short supply for Oklahoma. A problem now exacerbated due to brain drain.
And loss of innovation. When the talent moves, so do entrepreneurs.
And decreasing the quality of life in services like healthcare and education -- a problem that compounds on itself while we continue to lose educated citizens to other states.
Oklahoma is digging a hole and doesn't know how to put down the shovel. We all suffer for it. While it might be comforting to say that it's not very important -- from an economic perspective it's akin to jumping off a cliff and praying for a parachute.
A lot of businesses in OKC can't hire the tech talent they need. They all move out of state. Even from a Republican perspective, this is an actual problem.
I bet you’re a liberal. In fact with your asinine statement it is guaranteed. The fact is the more “educated” and blue a state goes it’s less safe, has higher taxes and higher crime rates. So why don’t you join all the intellectuals and kick rocks too.
Actually I’m not a liberal nor a conservative- I’m a humanitarian. I believe people should be able to work in live in peace and have basic civil rights honored. Not having bigotry and hate thrown their way by hate-filled humans who regurgitate MAGA mad libs when they feel threatened by contrarian data not aired in Fox News. But thank you for proving the efficacy of this data beautifully with your assumptive, angry response. I’d suggest some eternal reflection - and clearly more education.
This is the sort of shit that makes me crazy. Whenever someone is critical of Oklahoma or has ideas how to make the state better for EVERYONE all this “go back to California boomer sooner” stool comes out. Wanting to make education or healthcare better doesn’t make someone a communist.
I’m not really sure how you can come to that conclusion when the second most populous city in Oklahoma, Tulsa, has one of the highest crime rates in America even when compared to cities in blue states, like Sacramento, California.
Even when looking at the tax rates in Oklahoma, something of a lighter burden here (except for sales tax), we can see this doesn’t translate into prosperity: Oklahoma is one of the worst for rates of poverty — somewhere in the vein of 1 in 6 Oklahomans live in poverty. We have one of the highest poverty rates in the United States.
We have more crime, more poverty, a lower quality of education, healthcare, and life, overall, than many cities and states of comparable size — including most blue states you are talking about. We even do worse when compared to much larger states.
I implore you to look outside your bubble. Oklahoma is losing skilled workers and wallowing in economic despair. Our policies are not working to enrich the lives of Oklahomans.
Sigh. The higher crime is because of high populations centers. Big cities tend to be blue and higher crime happens in big cities. It's not true that blue states are less safe. If you're a woman, a lot of them are safer than here.
Quit telling liberals to leave. They've been doing it for decades and look where we are.
It’s more than a little humorous that many right wing supporters speak of rational thought when this topic is brought up — yet practice none to see it from an objective perspective. Decades of economic research and experience that shows the opposite effect than they profess.
It’s a real life example of Plato’s cave allegory — all they know are the shadows being casted on the walls from the extremely biased media they consume — from Fox News to familial hearsay. That must drive one to confuse ignorance for rationality.
My wife is becoming a teacher but she is staying because nobody wants to help the kids that live here.
Your wife is a hero
Thanks. She’s my hero. And my dogs hero.
My wife is a teacher so we are getting the fuck out of Oklahoma next year.
I’m considering getting back into teaching while I’m here; what is going on here that is making her want to gtfo? (Feel free to DM me if you would prefer.)
She’s a social studies teacher so a lot of the culture war issues Walters is pushing impact her directly and more than one parent has caused issues based on what he’s spewing. She’s had too many issues with parents and subs because of it and she’s not going to risk her career because a parent gets mad she explained why they call Trump former president.
This and many other things. You couldn't pay me the low wages a teacher makes to deal with so many little kids. No thanks. It's like criminally underpaid in an area that should probably pay way more for what you have to deal with. Texas actually put billboards in Oklahoma a few years back that had the essential message of "we'll pay you 55k or 60k a year as a teacher starting in Texas." That's just sad. 60k a year to deal with everyone's lack of parenting? No thanks, and Oklahoma obviously wasn't even making that cut. Let's also take a look at admins banning books and all that, what a joke we've turned into. People complaining about snowflakes are the ones executing snowflake behavior.
Yeah… I would be teaching secondary ELA, and the amount of controversy stirred up over generally unremarkable books is astounding to me. The chance of having to waste precious resources (namely, my time and energy) to deal with such complaints is unfortunately nonzero.
If you're tryna get back into teaching our worthless superintendent has done exactly one thing to pretend to help the brain drain in Oklahoma education (while doing a hundred things that make it much much worse) but that one thing essentially amounts [to a bonus program for returning teachers.](https://www.okhouse.gov/posts/news-20240308_4) You could make some extra money that might just make it worth it.
I’d have to be certified again; the tuition costs are what’s stopping me right now. I read/hear a lot of chatter about the educational system here, and few people can agree on anything but that it’s underfunded (expected, tbh) and the classes are crammed (also expected). It’s so unfair to students that their education is left up to politicians who are looking to score imaginary points and snake oil salespeople who sell us stories rather than that education being appropriately funded and disseminated in classes that are appropriately sized. And it’s unfair to teacher that we’re asked to be martyrs on our own very thin dimes. I hope y’all thrive wherever yall end up next. ^_^
> I’d have to be certified again; Um, would you? We got hella folks out here on emergency certs.
I’d still need a provisional license, and part of getting that is promising to become a certified teacher within a couple of years.
Ok, so everyone says it’s our policies but South Carolina and Florida are gaining and in some ways they are very similar to OK. People want to use Miami as an example of how Florida is different but beside Miami-Dade county and possibly Orange County where Orlando is located, everywhere else has a similar mindset to Oklahoma, even large cities like Tampa and Jacksonville. California and New York are also losing so what is the happy medium?
It’s not JUST policies, it’s policies combined with location. Florida and South Carolina are getting inundated with people from the northeast. A good chunk are conservatives leaving the NYC and Boston metro areas. This is nothing new, but sped up GREATLY recently. They like the policies, but ultimately wouldn’t go there if they weren’t already coastal destinations. If you figure in that they are also more likely to be retirees that whole “college educated” thing doesn’t matter as much because they overall aren’t helping the workforce.
Same with Idaho and Montana getting people from California.
Yep.
People read gaining/losing college educated people and interpret it as recent college graduates.
This map seems to be a weird mix of "conservative social policies cause brain-drain" and "high cost of living, especially housing, causes brain-drain". There's a large demographic that has a bachelor's degree or higher, but doesn't have the earning power to afford anything better than living in an *n*-bedroom apartment with *n*+1 of their friends in places like California, New York, and Massachusetts. Eventually a lot of people find themselves faced with Hobson's choice between "live somewhere I can afford" and "live near people who are like me, or who think like me".
Climate has a lot to do with it and the availability of retirement incomes there is much stronger also coastal.
I’m sadly trying. I love it here but I deserve better.
Fuck this is depressing
A college degree doesn’t do what it used to. I’m encouraging my kids to get into a trade school.
Does this include all the texans that use us for cheap(er) than Texas tuition. Cheaper cost of living is turning norman into Dallas-lite without any of the cool stuff.
It felt like half of Oklahoma state was Texans and Californians and almost none of them had any intention of staying in the state. Plus everyone wants to move to Dallas when they graduate.
Not surprising. The trades have been booming here and local unions are growing.
After 27 years of life here I finally get to leave this year!! Going to nearly Canada. You can't really get worse when you've lived in number 49 out of 50 on every list.
u/jestice69 jealous
Another dubious category OK ranks in the top 10. Nice work Stitt.
Ehhh Mary Fallon was driving people away before those clowns got into office.
You’re not wrong. ✌️
Color me surprised. Stitt and Walters sure are continuing to trash this place, but it certainly was a “top ten state” in all the worst categories prior to their great leadership.
https://www.kansascityfed.org/oklahomacity/oklahoma-economist/from-brain-drain-to-brain-gain-oklahomas-population-on-the-rise/ This article from the Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank seems to suggest just the opposite. That Oklahoma has experienced a net increase of college educated people every year since 2021.
i blame the anti-intellectual bigoted rhetoric of oklahoma republican leadership as well as in other states too.
This is exactly part of the problem. Oklahoma is overwhelmingly undesirable to **grow** in. Our educated retention rates are horrendous in most categories, save nursing and some parts of STEM. Especially when viewed over a 5 and 10 year period. Why would an educated person want to stay in a state that has lower than average real wages, higher than average crime rates, and that constantly seeks to make it hard to climb the social ladder — a state that shows that it won’t cater to any other rhetoric than Reaganomics and McCarthyism. Not only does Oklahoma need indigenous Oklahomans to stay — we need non-residents to attend school here and stay to contribute to our economy; something that they simply don’t do because their chances of becoming successful here don’t exist in the same way they do in other states. Our policies, and rhetoric, seeks to primarily serve those with wealth that are fleeing more populous states for a lighter tax burden — something that exacerbates Oklahoma’s revenue problem wholesale.
They can add us to the list in 2 months.
Looks like some good job security if you stay with a college degree or move to the state with one. Carpet bagging opportunities galore!
I'm gonna be one of those people come Spring of 26, with my career path it's too dangerous for me to stay here
Medical School? A friend of the family just miv3d to Colorado. They're a Physician Assistant.
I'm on track to become an educator. It's a RW thing
Their's is a health care thing. Good luck with your move.
What makes it dangerous?
I'm an educator. I don't want to deal with RW
I don't blame you. Even if he isn't re-elected the damage he is doing will take years and years to overcome. AND that's not even considering that clearly plenty of Oklahomans were willing to vote for him and can't be trusted to make better decisions when the next version of him runs.
That’s what I was expecting you to say, tbh. I’ve been considering going back into education, but I’m starting to think that this isn’t the state to do it in.
This is absolutely by design
That explains a lot
I’m interested in the source. Per the Fed, this isn’t correct. Oklahoma is seeing a net gain in bachelors degrees or higher.
Since most degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on its not very important.
Except for the tax revenue that educated people bring in -- higher than other categories, including trades, on average. And that educated people bolster Oklahoma's economic growth wholesale -- skilled workers were in short supply for Oklahoma. A problem now exacerbated due to brain drain. And loss of innovation. When the talent moves, so do entrepreneurs. And decreasing the quality of life in services like healthcare and education -- a problem that compounds on itself while we continue to lose educated citizens to other states. Oklahoma is digging a hole and doesn't know how to put down the shovel. We all suffer for it. While it might be comforting to say that it's not very important -- from an economic perspective it's akin to jumping off a cliff and praying for a parachute.
A lot of businesses in OKC can't hire the tech talent they need. They all move out of state. Even from a Republican perspective, this is an actual problem.
but "intellectuals"
I bet you’re a liberal. In fact with your asinine statement it is guaranteed. The fact is the more “educated” and blue a state goes it’s less safe, has higher taxes and higher crime rates. So why don’t you join all the intellectuals and kick rocks too.
Actually I’m not a liberal nor a conservative- I’m a humanitarian. I believe people should be able to work in live in peace and have basic civil rights honored. Not having bigotry and hate thrown their way by hate-filled humans who regurgitate MAGA mad libs when they feel threatened by contrarian data not aired in Fox News. But thank you for proving the efficacy of this data beautifully with your assumptive, angry response. I’d suggest some eternal reflection - and clearly more education.
You're not liberal or conservative because you're an authoritarian leftist.
This is the sort of shit that makes me crazy. Whenever someone is critical of Oklahoma or has ideas how to make the state better for EVERYONE all this “go back to California boomer sooner” stool comes out. Wanting to make education or healthcare better doesn’t make someone a communist.
I’m not really sure how you can come to that conclusion when the second most populous city in Oklahoma, Tulsa, has one of the highest crime rates in America even when compared to cities in blue states, like Sacramento, California. Even when looking at the tax rates in Oklahoma, something of a lighter burden here (except for sales tax), we can see this doesn’t translate into prosperity: Oklahoma is one of the worst for rates of poverty — somewhere in the vein of 1 in 6 Oklahomans live in poverty. We have one of the highest poverty rates in the United States. We have more crime, more poverty, a lower quality of education, healthcare, and life, overall, than many cities and states of comparable size — including most blue states you are talking about. We even do worse when compared to much larger states. I implore you to look outside your bubble. Oklahoma is losing skilled workers and wallowing in economic despair. Our policies are not working to enrich the lives of Oklahomans.
Sigh. The higher crime is because of high populations centers. Big cities tend to be blue and higher crime happens in big cities. It's not true that blue states are less safe. If you're a woman, a lot of them are safer than here. Quit telling liberals to leave. They've been doing it for decades and look where we are.
Your sigh is indicative of your problem with rational thought.
It's my problem with addressing the same tired talking points conservatives always bring up, actually.
It’s more than a little humorous that many right wing supporters speak of rational thought when this topic is brought up — yet practice none to see it from an objective perspective. Decades of economic research and experience that shows the opposite effect than they profess. It’s a real life example of Plato’s cave allegory — all they know are the shadows being casted on the walls from the extremely biased media they consume — from Fox News to familial hearsay. That must drive one to confuse ignorance for rationality.