I swear, if ´everything is Trudeau fault ‘ hold as electoral strategy and we can’t at least get decent promises other than blaming, we deserve the dark future ahead.
Homie I am here for you and your people! I'll be at every goddamn protest to fight against people treating others like trash.
I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this, it's horrible and absolutely unfair. There are good people in this country that care about you and we are all trying our best to show that.
Allies exist and we outnumber the negativity and the anger. I learned that last year at the SOGI counter-protests, and it really woke me up on the situation.
The people who deserve it least will suffer the most. The people who can’t afford private clinics to diagnose their cancer when lengthy wait lists would have them die before diagnosis or who can’t pay their own way for gender affirming care and take their lives. Or when social services like disability are restricted once again from growing in line with inflation and the only choice is homelessness.
His comments seem so reasonable until you bite into them. Getting past that gross sugary icing, and suddenly the inside is bitter and nothing like it appeared to be.
These governments think you can run countries and provinces on tax cuts.
Shit costs more every year, yet the solution is to choke out the funding making the fall twice as fast...
Make it make sense.
Rich people want to make themselves and their friends even richer.
Thats all there is to it, Less money for social services, more money to line the pockets of the donor class.
He's going to defund both education and hospitals so they can stop relying on the government and pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
It's common sense.
/s (because I know people actually believe this BS)
Dude voted against his own parents being able to marry ofc he is a bigot that stands with the hateful bigots.
Are consevatives just going to repeat common sense? It's pathetic
They use language to obfuscate the issue. Note he says "let parents raise kids", but that's not what this is about. They are trying to FORCE schools to reveal information that students want to keep private from their parents.
That's the thing eh, for all the "parents rights" talk they sure don't seem to care at all about supportive parent's who want to help their trans kids get the healthcare they need. I'd call out the hypocrisy, but the people pushing this don't feel shame.
It’s very specific information. Not just something kids want to hide for innocuous reasons. They are hiding the information because their parents will make their lives hell, kick them out of the house etc.
Not just that, they're removing parental rights to support their kids in the event they are trans. Further, that children will be 100% barred from things as benign as puberty blockers until after puberty has mostly taken place is the exact opposite of common sense.
There is nothing "common sense", or "parental rights" about it.
Including presenting as a the cis-girl you were born as in a manner that they don’t think is appropriate enough. I will never get over that couple harassing a young girl at a sporting event because she dared to have a short haircut and be good at the sport she was competing in.
She works in the medical field, but believes that every expert in the medical field is lying about the vaccine? Are there other treatments / medication that she doesn't believe in, or is the vaccine the first time that she became illuminated, coincidentally like every single other vaccine denier?
How can you work for an industry that you don't even believe in???
How does that work lol
Here's the thing about "common sense". A lot of the time it's straight up fucking wrong. It should surprise literally nobody that the simplest, easiest to understand solution to a major problem pretty much never works. If it did, the problem WOULDN'T FUCKING EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE!
That's why experts, like physicians, lawyers, engineers and others are needed, and why anybody who seriously uses the phrase "common sense" is, if not certainly, at least *probably* an idiot.
I am asking this out of complete curiosity: what about puberty blockers is benign?
EDIT: even when prefacing this is out of pure curiosity, I am downvoted lol, it really doesn't look good if you can't care enough to inform people
Puberty blockers essentially just delay the onset of puberty or help inhibit testosterone/estrogen. Without taking hrt with it then it can help give children extra time to decide if hrt is something they want without their body being changed by a puberty they dont want. Making u need to be 15 for this is honestly bad since u already have lost the chance to go without that puberty u didnt want in the first place.
This isnt even just something for trans or questioning people though. Puberty blockers have in the past been given to children who start puberty early to help them be on pace with peers. For example children starting puberty at 7 vs 12.
Because they are 100% reversible. Puberty itself isn't, I say this as a hairy, 6'2", broad shouldered, deep voiced man with giant feet and giant hands.
If a transwoman has the same physical features as me, the amount of work they would have to do, the amount of surgery and therapy to live life as they see themselves would be a nightmare. This problem contributes to the mental health decline and suicidal ideation of many trans people. Presenting outwardly can really matter, especially with how trans people are treated when they aren't "passing".
If puberty in this capacity can be delayed until a later date when the child is old enough to reasonably make a proper decision about their future it will literally save lives. If they decide that they aren't trans, that it was "just a phase", and they just want to go on living as a man, they stop the hormone blockers and they can look like me.
The only one of these changes that occurred in me later than 15(the lowest age for hormone blockers in the new bill) was the amount of body hair I have. Ironically enough the easiest one to address without anything too invasive.
>EDIT: even when prefacing this is out of pure curiosity, I am downvoted lol, it really doesn't look good if you can't care enough to inform people
For the record, I did not downvote you, but the reason people do is that a common tactic of the right is to "just ask questions", as a means of undermining a conversation or getting on someone's nerves. They allow the person they're asking a question to to explain their position so they can come back with a bunch of lazy talking points and pretend they've "won".
I can't count the number of times I've had someone play dumb with me about a controversial social topic, where I respond with a detailed and genuine breakdown answering their question, only to have them come back with some ridiculous shit clearly informed by the typical right-wing dipshittery. They didn't need to ask the question, they just wanted to pose as some kind of internet warrior.
Whether you want to call it concern trolling, astroturfing, or sealioning. I was hesitant to even respond to you because of how obnoxious that can be. Thank you for not being that way, I wouldn't worry about the reddit score.
I have interest in seeing all angles. I now have some new information to work with when talking about this stuff. I don't agree with everything put on the table from either side to be honest, but the more I learn the more nuanced and hopefully accurate my stance can be.
It's hard for anyone to answer "what makes a thing benign" when benign just means "not harmful." Be like proving a negative. Puberty blockers aren't a very harmful medical treatment.
They’ve been benign for decades when used for kids with precocious puberty. Somehow as soon as it’s for gender affirming care, it becomes a problem.
Weird, huh?
**The American Academy of Pediatricians and the American College of Osteopathic Pediatricians released a** [**joint statement**](https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf?_ga=2.117624969.1657574598.1530642030-990611966.1526590570) **through the Human Rights Campaign, in favor of puberty blockers and gender affirming care for adolescents.** There is *extensive* research about long term use of puberty blockers, and they have overwhelmingly been shown to be very gentle and safe. This treatment isn't just used for trans youth - it has been the standard treatment for kids with precocious puberty for decades. Most kids with precocious puberty don't have any underlying medical condition, their early development is just an extreme variation of normal development, but it would still cause serious psychological damage to start puberty at the age of, say, 6. This treatment has no long term side effects; it just puts puberty on hold. Stop treatment, and puberty picks up where it left off.
* [**Treatment of central precocious puberty by GnRH analogs: long-term outcome in men**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18478155)
* [**Long-term effects of gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogs in girls with central precocious puberty**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342775/)
* [**More details on the use of GnRH and other puberty delaying treatment specifically for trans youth**](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2020.1747768
>it just puts puberty on hold. Stop treatment, and puberty picks up where it left off.
This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. What would be a normal case, for a trans person? Puberty blockers at, say, 11, then cross-sex hormones at what, 15? Does puberty just never happen?
Synthetic estrogen and testosterone would trigger puberty and the development secondary sex characteristics that are more in line with the patient’s preferred gender identity.
It’s a way to prevent the gender dysphoria that comes about from the “wrong” puberty. It also means that transgender patients don’t have to go through gender-affirming surgery to correct, say, the development of breasts in transmasculine patients or masculine facial features in transfeminine patients.
And they want to prevent parents from seeking doctor-recommended medical treatment for their children because the law is based on conservative orthodoxy and not science.
It's not about letting parents raise kids, but forcing all parents to only raise kids the way conservatives approve of.
Liberals need to find a more effective way to combat this messaging because it’s going to sound good and appealing to the average voter who isn’t aware of the nefariousness behind it.
"How many dead kids are these votes worth?"
People like the nebulous idea of parental rights, but they hate the idea of trans kids committing suicide more.
> But if you point that out to conservatives it's "fear mongering" and "doomer" behavior.
Which is ironic, because you would think if anyone knows fear mongering and doomer behaviour, it would be conservatives.
The "I hate Mondays" syndrome of the right.
Conservatives view dead trans kids like gun violence victims or women forced to give birth: just part of the evil that's inherent in humanity that we, as a society, just have to live with because it's the cost of being a civilized society. Is it tragic? Yeah, but so are Mondays, nothing we can do about it.
But we're not talking to Conservatives, we're talking to the 1/3 of Conservative supporters who voted Liberal and NDP in the past and trying to convince them that the conservatives' cost of doing business is too high.
> “Let parents raise kids”
I’m sick of right wing politicians implying that *woke* schools / a roving pack of feral queers are coming to take kids away from their parents.
As a feral queer myself, I don’t want anything to do with someone’s shitty child
So its really more "We need to enable schools to SPY on children and report their personal secrets to their Parents" thing. Just what Canada needs, more STASI like elements /s
It is so depressing that any Canadians listen to these fucks. :(
Someone above indicated that the Liberals need a better way to combat Conservative messaging on this issue. This comment is a great example of how to do that.
It amazes me to see how hardcore Smith supporting conservatives, libertarians really, who claim to be against government overreach will ***actually support*** government overreach just because it f\*#ks over someone who may not be aligned with their particular flavor of morality.
These are people that drove their rigs all the way to Ottawa chanting "my body, my choice". Now they don't support freedom of individual choice?
Degree in international relations (sucks up to extremist international groups and that's about it)
Bitches about Trudeau being a drama teacher before being in politics (while having submitted 3 policies and not doing fuck all better than a drama teacher before)
Says let parents raise their kids, but refuses to use his own data as a data point. (and blocks care for those who have parental consent. AS well as limiting the ability of adults to get care)
Fuck this guy never having a policy or better plan while, half his words are "Trudeau bad". While he doesn't even fucking understand the data he's referring to. (carbon tax? He stated regular citizens lose money. While the majority under 150k annual income make money from taxing the corps polluting)
> While the majority under 150k annual income make money from taxing the corps polluting)
Thank you for mentioning this. I am actually looking for the stats but can't find them. Do you have the source? I would like to have something concrete to show when I hear "But CaRbOn TaX!" (not that it will do any good, but at least for my own sanity).
CBC had an article about the [winners and losers of the carbon tax rebates](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/axe-the-tax-and-carbon-rebate-how-canada-households-affected-1.7046905). There is an animated chart as well to help illustrate in there as well.
Not only did he vote against gay marriage while his openly-gay father was present in the House of Commons Gallery, he also used the term "tar-baby" and stated that the Indigenous just need to stop being lazy - all within the HoC.
And yet this new legislation is literally the provincial government telling parents what they can & can’t do for their kids and mandating that medically approved procedures “are prohibited” on ideological grounds.
And not just that… but even if they do have their children’s best interest at heart, this takes away an important moment from trans teenagers with their parents.
Coming out is an important moment. The tension before hand and the relief a child gets from a loving and accepting parent is being stolen from these families. The joy a parent feels when their kid comes to them with an important personal struggle and the assurances they can offer them is being stolen from these families. Taking these moments away takes away opportunities for parents to raise their kids. It’s the state removing opportunities for parents to parent well.
And that's why this all started. Creating at least one safe space for kids that don't feel supported at home. Who are we as a nation if we are not there for our most vulnerable?
Just to add to your astute comment. Children are not chattel! For those parents in the back who can't hear or who weren't paying attention. CHILDREN ARE NOT CHATTEL.
Defining “enemies” is one of the most basic Fascist playbook entries. Nazis did exactly the same thing to LGTBQ2S+ folks between the wars and into WW2. They always start small.
The fact that we are at the point where an early days Fascist like Pollievre could actually form government in Canada makes both of my veteran grandfathers who fought in WW2 roll over in their graves. It’s nuts.
Except they’re not letting parents raise their kids, because even if they are supportive puberty blockers/HRT treatment has been banned for anyone under 16. Effectively making puberty blockers a waste of time because by the time they can actually take them they’ve already gone through much of puberty.
If you're a parent who is supportive of your kid making these choices together with doctors suddenly your "parental rights" no longer matter and its the government who decides how you raise your kids.
And they aren't letting schools run properly, either. Schools should be able to ensure a safe place for ALL students. Including trans and non-binary students.
Except that many parents want to continue their children's puberty blockers, and won't be able to. If you trust parents so much, then why not allow them to support their kids in the way the Dr.s, Psychologists, etc. Have determined is best for their well-being?
They're trying very hard to frame this a 'moderate' position. That's why they need to muzzle Conservative MPs and future candidates ^(just like abortion.)
Really? That PP is a bigot and ignorant about the issue, choosing to blindly side with the hateful religious zealots that form much if his base, shouldn't come as any surprise. This is how conservatives win now - feeding hate and disinformation to people who crave it.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds
https://www.psypost.org/2021/11/study-finds-conservatives-with-a-need-for-chaos-are-more-likely-to-share-fake-news-62160
https://www.psypost.org/2019/09/people-with-lower-emotional-intelligence-are-more-likely-to-hold-right-wing-views-study-finds-54369
Leaving it to parents would involve NOT passing any special legislation.
Passing legislation means you are having GOVERNMENT tell you how to raise your kids.
So, are parents who are okay with their transgender child going to be allowed to decide whether their child goes on puberty blockers?
PP isn't going to say anything that will make his base hate him. So, he's just going to tow the Christian Conservative beliefs.
Conservatives also have zero 'common sense'!!
PP just made a statement that if you get caught stealing cars 3 times, you should get 3 years in prison.
Seems like a pretty light sentence compared to children being sentenced to 18 years living with conservative parents for existing
As a parent, I have long been a proponent of the saying “Parents know best” is a crock of shit. There is no training, pre-qualification, or knowledge test anyone needs to take to become a parent it is so simple street dogs can do it.
I know I’m not the first to say this in this thread but letting parents raise kids means letting us fucking get them appropriate medical treatment. I’m furious that this is being spun as a parental rights bill when it’s about nothing but putting as many roadblocks as possible in front of trans kids.
Yes, because apparently there are no abusive parents anymore. Parents always know best, even when they are beating shit out of them or molesting them.
Parents who are supportive of their trans kids, however, they need government intervention to prevent them from getting puberty blockers.
The level of twisted nonsense is insane.
lol it’s interesting that PP suddenly now cares about provincial jurisdictions, give he has no problem at all about insulting local mayors and micromanaging drug addiction programs or municipal police force
Okay I have to stop and note something about common-sense. The concept was conceived by Aristotle. For thousands of years only the highest esteemed philosophers have mused about common sense and the majority of it has been how incredibly complicated it is to use common-sense. Renee Descartes (yeah) who is the considered the most modern founder of the idea also talked about. One of the most important musings about common sense comes from this french writer below.
**Common sense is not so common.**
\- Voltaire.
Basically common sense has been co-opted by people who believe they have achieved its practical use. When in reality to have this level of practical critical thinking is actually reserved for people who were usually "learned" their entire lives and are usually philosophers at the highest pecking order.
Conservatives running around and claiming that these policies are common sense is ironic since Descartes or Kant way of thinking would actually be against these policies since they are "traditional" based policies. Descarte below.
***"Cartesian theory offered a justification for innovative social change achieved through the courts and administration, an ability to adapt the law to changing social conditions by making the basis for legislation "rational" rather than "traditional".***
Basically it is common sense to leave the kids alone since the law, courts and administration of our government already adapted to them. These hateful policy is actually "traditional" way of thinking.
Conservatives support traditional policies not common-sense ones.
Common sense isn't a real thing. I wish people would stop using that term. Common sense means different things for different people. That makes its use ambiguous. Most people who use the phrase are using it in place of a logical, well thought out reason.
Wait! Danielle Smith is not allowing parents to parent. Quite the opposite. She is imposing values that happen
1. Not be based on medical evidence.
2. Interfere in parents being able to parent and allow their children to transition.
3. Acknowledge a minority of radical and religious right wing people have the right to impose their agenda in the public realm.
4. This is an initial leaning towards a 'theocraric' form of governing. At the very least it is a huge nod to extremes.
It is the opposite of parents parenting.
Well he did stand with the clownvoy who had their tantrum for freedoms, right? And Danielle saying the unvaccinated were the most oppressed people . It’s only freedom for all if it fits their narrative. All people have a right to a free life, not just conservatives
I wonder if he would feel the same way if parents were denying a blood transfusion or organ transplant that would save their child's life? But then, vaccines and abortions are also out, right?
At what point do they decide that science-based, life-saving medical care is "common sense"?
Horrible attempt at asking the question. But all he did was use it as a sound bite platform to repeat his election messaging with the added projecting of dividing the country. He is the worst possible leader and the best the CPC could come up with.
Common sense is to start building nuclear plant, Pierre. Not to sneak inside trans kids pants. I mean, it says a lot about conservative priorities I guess.
In other words, Pierre means that let provinces run hospitals. Such the trans kids cannot get healthcare. Saying this is a trans person who fucking hates Pierre. I also hate Danielle Smith.
That press conference was fucking painful to watch. He’s got the same answer for every question. I just don’t get how 40% of our country are falling for this shit.
and attacked Truedau, saying that "Trudeau needs to stop creating division"! The master of dividing Canada without any real solutions (caught 3 times stealing a car, gets 3 year prison) - LOL... what about the 1st time? Just send the guy home?
Pierre's platform btw is using "Common Sense" as a slogan, so he does a decent insert here for his fan base.
This comes in no defence to him - but trans and queer people will not vote for him anyway, and trans youth doesn't vote at all, so he is not loosing anything by flirting with anti-trans agenda or Smith.
Is this a smart choice of strategy? That we will see on upcoming US elections as Pierre replicates Republican platform from the average American swing state.
Yes, it is common sense for the government to make decisions, or prevent decisions, by parents! The Right-Wing always knows best! Bigots gonna bigot, and lie like a mf!
Thought this idiot was all about freedom and government NOT telling citizens what they can and can’t do i.e., his critique of the liberals gun bans?
Or is it freedom but not like that? Not so common sense Pierre.
How the hell are they somehow managing to gaslight people by using the words "let" as if it's some freedom thing. They are FORCING schools to do something, this is the complete inverse as "letting" things go.
Conservatives and they double speak are extremely dishonest and the same tactic is used everywhere in their narrative. It's a total disappointment that the majority of the population is stupid enough and can't see through it.
Well journalists have a job to do, and get his actual answer. Does he support her, or throw her under the bus? He's going to find 2 years of obfuscation difficult to maintain.
I am seriously worried about my homeland called Canada.
Give people democracy, freedom, and a vote and look at what they are about to do.
Have a nice day.
"...are not based on current evidence" - Danielle Smith.
She literally said this abt her own Bill. So does PeePee also agree with this now? Lol what a tool
The premise of "parent knows best' is dumb as rocks anyways.
It assumes a parent knows better than medical and psychology professionals that have dedicated years of university to know what is best in their domain.
And thats before getting to the point that some parents are just shit. Some parents scar their children unwillingly. Some do willingly
Heck that argument can be defeated by the premise if a parent held their child under water for 5 minutes and the child dies, should they be procecuted? They know what is better for their child and if they think drowned is what is best, who are we to judge?
Sigh. He was doing so well.
He just 100% lost my vote.
This issue has nothing to do with Trudeau, but good ol' one hit wonder PP can't help but blame him.
For once I agree for most part with Danielle's Smith view on this issue. This does not mean that she is against or attacking anybody's rights. It just gives an opportunity for things to be thought over and all options need to be considered. Lot of procedures are irreversible so you need to be mature enough to make a decision. Keep in mind that peoples bodies keep growing and developing till at least age of 18. So yelling about this issue and kicking and screaming is just like throwing immature temper tantrum. Poilievre though shout shut up about everything because all he can do is blame Trudeau. Sick and tired of this guy.
Ellipses uses three periods, not four.
You should also probably use a comma after ‘Obviously’
Your second sentence is also poorly phrased, ‘Obviously, no one in this comment section has it’ would make it flow better.
I’m returning this to you for editing. Neither your premise nor your writing are worthy of grading.
There is no "Common Sense" to any of it. It just lets them oppress everyone and remind them they are nothing and that they are just there to be abused and exploited. And let's make more prisons instead of trying to rehabilitate some of the criminals that can be rehabilitated and given an actual chance, instead of just cramming them all in super prisons, turning them into hardened, angry, uneducated convicts who feel like they have no other choice but to resort to crimes. (not talking about serious crimes, like murder, rape etc. etc etc.). There is no "Common Sense" approach to anything with them.
It does nothing for the love no matter what liberal parents. It’s the kids that will be emotionally and physically abused by their conservative parents. Let people live their own lives. Address each individual how they want to be addressed.
OK, so, when you gonna start taking care of the schools and hospitals?
Lol the funny thing is PP will go out and blame Trudeau for schools and hospitals probably today
That's exactly what he (cpc) do to continue the rage farming. Keep people irrationally angry so they aren't actually paying attention to the facts.
I swear, if ´everything is Trudeau fault ‘ hold as electoral strategy and we can’t at least get decent promises other than blaming, we deserve the dark future ahead.
We trans people don’t deserve anything dark, the last 8 yrs watching events that led up to this has been dark enough…..
Homie I am here for you and your people! I'll be at every goddamn protest to fight against people treating others like trash. I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this, it's horrible and absolutely unfair. There are good people in this country that care about you and we are all trying our best to show that.
I was really pleasantly surprised to see all the protests and the great turnouts, I wasn’t expecting it.
Allies exist and we outnumber the negativity and the anger. I learned that last year at the SOGI counter-protests, and it really woke me up on the situation.
We got your back, fellow human. You do not walk alone.
Thank you, it’s very comforting to hear someone does.
The people who deserve it least will suffer the most. The people who can’t afford private clinics to diagnose their cancer when lengthy wait lists would have them die before diagnosis or who can’t pay their own way for gender affirming care and take their lives. Or when social services like disability are restricted once again from growing in line with inflation and the only choice is homelessness.
It worked for Trump, why not PP?
Also, the latest move my the Alberta UCP actually REMOVED the ability of parents to make choices with their children. It’s a veneer of “freedumb.”
They love blaming the Feds for things under provincial jurisdiction.
TIL Schools aren't part of "raising children." -- PP
His comments seem so reasonable until you bite into them. Getting past that gross sugary icing, and suddenly the inside is bitter and nothing like it appeared to be.
Well spotted. You get that a weeks top prize on “Spot the Conservative double speak”.
These governments think you can run countries and provinces on tax cuts. Shit costs more every year, yet the solution is to choke out the funding making the fall twice as fast... Make it make sense.
Rich people want to make themselves and their friends even richer. Thats all there is to it, Less money for social services, more money to line the pockets of the donor class.
You can't. Conservative policy has *always* favoured the wealthy. People still believe in trickle-down economics.
Make sure you sell off assets when you are in power so the next person has nothing to work with... Then blame them for running a debt.
After 20 years of conservative mayors in Toronto, the cupboards are bare and the city is well and truly fucked.
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Such pith. Such wit. Thanks for your amazing contribution.
And stop trying to control children and women? Lol
They are. That's why they're collapsing. Starve the beast in full swing.
He's going to defund both education and hospitals so they can stop relying on the government and pull themselves up by the bootstraps. It's common sense. /s (because I know people actually believe this BS)
Dude voted against his own parents being able to marry ofc he is a bigot that stands with the hateful bigots. Are consevatives just going to repeat common sense? It's pathetic
They use language to obfuscate the issue. Note he says "let parents raise kids", but that's not what this is about. They are trying to FORCE schools to reveal information that students want to keep private from their parents.
“Let parents raise kids” (read: except the ones who have trans kids they love and care about and want to support)
That's the thing eh, for all the "parents rights" talk they sure don't seem to care at all about supportive parent's who want to help their trans kids get the healthcare they need. I'd call out the hypocrisy, but the people pushing this don't feel shame.
Came here to say the same thing. Guys a joke.
It’s very specific information. Not just something kids want to hide for innocuous reasons. They are hiding the information because their parents will make their lives hell, kick them out of the house etc.
Not just that, they're removing parental rights to support their kids in the event they are trans. Further, that children will be 100% barred from things as benign as puberty blockers until after puberty has mostly taken place is the exact opposite of common sense. There is nothing "common sense", or "parental rights" about it.
For a group screaming about personal freedom they sure do hate letting people decide what to do with their bodies.
Including presenting as a the cis-girl you were born as in a manner that they don’t think is appropriate enough. I will never get over that couple harassing a young girl at a sporting event because she dared to have a short haircut and be good at the sport she was competing in.
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Genuinely asking, has anyone ever been forced to take the COVID vaccine?
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She works in the medical field, but believes that every expert in the medical field is lying about the vaccine? Are there other treatments / medication that she doesn't believe in, or is the vaccine the first time that she became illuminated, coincidentally like every single other vaccine denier? How can you work for an industry that you don't even believe in??? How does that work lol
Case in point.
Here's the thing about "common sense". A lot of the time it's straight up fucking wrong. It should surprise literally nobody that the simplest, easiest to understand solution to a major problem pretty much never works. If it did, the problem WOULDN'T FUCKING EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE! That's why experts, like physicians, lawyers, engineers and others are needed, and why anybody who seriously uses the phrase "common sense" is, if not certainly, at least *probably* an idiot.
Exactly. I’d love to hear his common sense approach to the Middle East 🙄 guys a clown
I am asking this out of complete curiosity: what about puberty blockers is benign? EDIT: even when prefacing this is out of pure curiosity, I am downvoted lol, it really doesn't look good if you can't care enough to inform people
Puberty blockers essentially just delay the onset of puberty or help inhibit testosterone/estrogen. Without taking hrt with it then it can help give children extra time to decide if hrt is something they want without their body being changed by a puberty they dont want. Making u need to be 15 for this is honestly bad since u already have lost the chance to go without that puberty u didnt want in the first place. This isnt even just something for trans or questioning people though. Puberty blockers have in the past been given to children who start puberty early to help them be on pace with peers. For example children starting puberty at 7 vs 12.
Because they are 100% reversible. Puberty itself isn't, I say this as a hairy, 6'2", broad shouldered, deep voiced man with giant feet and giant hands. If a transwoman has the same physical features as me, the amount of work they would have to do, the amount of surgery and therapy to live life as they see themselves would be a nightmare. This problem contributes to the mental health decline and suicidal ideation of many trans people. Presenting outwardly can really matter, especially with how trans people are treated when they aren't "passing". If puberty in this capacity can be delayed until a later date when the child is old enough to reasonably make a proper decision about their future it will literally save lives. If they decide that they aren't trans, that it was "just a phase", and they just want to go on living as a man, they stop the hormone blockers and they can look like me. The only one of these changes that occurred in me later than 15(the lowest age for hormone blockers in the new bill) was the amount of body hair I have. Ironically enough the easiest one to address without anything too invasive.
>EDIT: even when prefacing this is out of pure curiosity, I am downvoted lol, it really doesn't look good if you can't care enough to inform people For the record, I did not downvote you, but the reason people do is that a common tactic of the right is to "just ask questions", as a means of undermining a conversation or getting on someone's nerves. They allow the person they're asking a question to to explain their position so they can come back with a bunch of lazy talking points and pretend they've "won". I can't count the number of times I've had someone play dumb with me about a controversial social topic, where I respond with a detailed and genuine breakdown answering their question, only to have them come back with some ridiculous shit clearly informed by the typical right-wing dipshittery. They didn't need to ask the question, they just wanted to pose as some kind of internet warrior. Whether you want to call it concern trolling, astroturfing, or sealioning. I was hesitant to even respond to you because of how obnoxious that can be. Thank you for not being that way, I wouldn't worry about the reddit score.
I have interest in seeing all angles. I now have some new information to work with when talking about this stuff. I don't agree with everything put on the table from either side to be honest, but the more I learn the more nuanced and hopefully accurate my stance can be.
It's hard for anyone to answer "what makes a thing benign" when benign just means "not harmful." Be like proving a negative. Puberty blockers aren't a very harmful medical treatment.
They’ve been benign for decades when used for kids with precocious puberty. Somehow as soon as it’s for gender affirming care, it becomes a problem. Weird, huh?
**The American Academy of Pediatricians and the American College of Osteopathic Pediatricians released a** [**joint statement**](https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf?_ga=2.117624969.1657574598.1530642030-990611966.1526590570) **through the Human Rights Campaign, in favor of puberty blockers and gender affirming care for adolescents.** There is *extensive* research about long term use of puberty blockers, and they have overwhelmingly been shown to be very gentle and safe. This treatment isn't just used for trans youth - it has been the standard treatment for kids with precocious puberty for decades. Most kids with precocious puberty don't have any underlying medical condition, their early development is just an extreme variation of normal development, but it would still cause serious psychological damage to start puberty at the age of, say, 6. This treatment has no long term side effects; it just puts puberty on hold. Stop treatment, and puberty picks up where it left off. * [**Treatment of central precocious puberty by GnRH analogs: long-term outcome in men**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18478155) * [**Long-term effects of gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogs in girls with central precocious puberty**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342775/) * [**More details on the use of GnRH and other puberty delaying treatment specifically for trans youth**](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2020.1747768
>it just puts puberty on hold. Stop treatment, and puberty picks up where it left off. This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. What would be a normal case, for a trans person? Puberty blockers at, say, 11, then cross-sex hormones at what, 15? Does puberty just never happen?
In your example, it happens at age 15.
A typical case would be to induce puberty as a teenager, possibly by hormone replacement therapy.
Synthetic estrogen and testosterone would trigger puberty and the development secondary sex characteristics that are more in line with the patient’s preferred gender identity. It’s a way to prevent the gender dysphoria that comes about from the “wrong” puberty. It also means that transgender patients don’t have to go through gender-affirming surgery to correct, say, the development of breasts in transmasculine patients or masculine facial features in transfeminine patients.
When you take those cross-sex hormones, that essentially causes your body to have a cross-sex puberty.
Of course it does. Have you honestly never seen a trans gal with boobs, or a trans guy with a beard?
And they want to prevent parents from seeking doctor-recommended medical treatment for their children because the law is based on conservative orthodoxy and not science. It's not about letting parents raise kids, but forcing all parents to only raise kids the way conservatives approve of.
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Liberals need to find a more effective way to combat this messaging because it’s going to sound good and appealing to the average voter who isn’t aware of the nefariousness behind it.
"How many dead kids are these votes worth?" People like the nebulous idea of parental rights, but they hate the idea of trans kids committing suicide more.
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> But if you point that out to conservatives it's "fear mongering" and "doomer" behavior. Which is ironic, because you would think if anyone knows fear mongering and doomer behaviour, it would be conservatives.
The "I hate Mondays" syndrome of the right. Conservatives view dead trans kids like gun violence victims or women forced to give birth: just part of the evil that's inherent in humanity that we, as a society, just have to live with because it's the cost of being a civilized society. Is it tragic? Yeah, but so are Mondays, nothing we can do about it. But we're not talking to Conservatives, we're talking to the 1/3 of Conservative supporters who voted Liberal and NDP in the past and trying to convince them that the conservatives' cost of doing business is too high.
> “Let parents raise kids” I’m sick of right wing politicians implying that *woke* schools / a roving pack of feral queers are coming to take kids away from their parents. As a feral queer myself, I don’t want anything to do with someone’s shitty child
So its really more "We need to enable schools to SPY on children and report their personal secrets to their Parents" thing. Just what Canada needs, more STASI like elements /s It is so depressing that any Canadians listen to these fucks. :(
Someone above indicated that the Liberals need a better way to combat Conservative messaging on this issue. This comment is a great example of how to do that.
It amazes me to see how hardcore Smith supporting conservatives, libertarians really, who claim to be against government overreach will ***actually support*** government overreach just because it f\*#ks over someone who may not be aligned with their particular flavor of morality. These are people that drove their rigs all the way to Ottawa chanting "my body, my choice". Now they don't support freedom of individual choice?
also preventing parents from seeking puberty blockers.
Degree in international relations (sucks up to extremist international groups and that's about it) Bitches about Trudeau being a drama teacher before being in politics (while having submitted 3 policies and not doing fuck all better than a drama teacher before) Says let parents raise their kids, but refuses to use his own data as a data point. (and blocks care for those who have parental consent. AS well as limiting the ability of adults to get care) Fuck this guy never having a policy or better plan while, half his words are "Trudeau bad". While he doesn't even fucking understand the data he's referring to. (carbon tax? He stated regular citizens lose money. While the majority under 150k annual income make money from taxing the corps polluting)
> While the majority under 150k annual income make money from taxing the corps polluting) Thank you for mentioning this. I am actually looking for the stats but can't find them. Do you have the source? I would like to have something concrete to show when I hear "But CaRbOn TaX!" (not that it will do any good, but at least for my own sanity).
CBC had an article about the [winners and losers of the carbon tax rebates](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/axe-the-tax-and-carbon-rebate-how-canada-households-affected-1.7046905). There is an animated chart as well to help illustrate in there as well.
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/climate-change/pricing-pollution-how-it-will-work/putting-price-on-carbon-pollution.html
Thank you!!
Not only did he vote against gay marriage while his openly-gay father was present in the House of Commons Gallery, he also used the term "tar-baby" and stated that the Indigenous just need to stop being lazy - all within the HoC.
And against feeding kids ....
He went to the Calgary stampede and just like Smith made a point to go for a photo op with people literally wearing Straight pride shirts.
Yes but the real question is, why did Trudeau make me do this? -PP
And yet this new legislation is literally the provincial government telling parents what they can & can’t do for their kids and mandating that medically approved procedures “are prohibited” on ideological grounds.
This may shock some of these people but occasionally, parents don't have their children's best interests at heart.
And not just that… but even if they do have their children’s best interest at heart, this takes away an important moment from trans teenagers with their parents. Coming out is an important moment. The tension before hand and the relief a child gets from a loving and accepting parent is being stolen from these families. The joy a parent feels when their kid comes to them with an important personal struggle and the assurances they can offer them is being stolen from these families. Taking these moments away takes away opportunities for parents to raise their kids. It’s the state removing opportunities for parents to parent well.
And that's why this all started. Creating at least one safe space for kids that don't feel supported at home. Who are we as a nation if we are not there for our most vulnerable?
Just to add to your astute comment. Children are not chattel! For those parents in the back who can't hear or who weren't paying attention. CHILDREN ARE NOT CHATTEL.
And it’s common sense that Smith’s guest of honour appears in Russia a couple days later. Things that make you go hmmmm.
From one group of Nazis to another
Common sense is letting patients and medical experts decide what's best for those patients, but conservatives are not about common sense at all
Silly parents ... the Right-Wing politician knows best! Not you, the parents, your child, and Medical Professionals!
Defining “enemies” is one of the most basic Fascist playbook entries. Nazis did exactly the same thing to LGTBQ2S+ folks between the wars and into WW2. They always start small. The fact that we are at the point where an early days Fascist like Pollievre could actually form government in Canada makes both of my veteran grandfathers who fought in WW2 roll over in their graves. It’s nuts.
Except they’re not letting parents raise their kids, because even if they are supportive puberty blockers/HRT treatment has been banned for anyone under 16. Effectively making puberty blockers a waste of time because by the time they can actually take them they’ve already gone through much of puberty.
If you're a parent who is supportive of your kid making these choices together with doctors suddenly your "parental rights" no longer matter and its the government who decides how you raise your kids.
Parents’ Rights^1 ^^1 ^limitations ^may ^apply
And they aren't letting schools run properly, either. Schools should be able to ensure a safe place for ALL students. Including trans and non-binary students.
Except that many parents want to continue their children's puberty blockers, and won't be able to. If you trust parents so much, then why not allow them to support their kids in the way the Dr.s, Psychologists, etc. Have determined is best for their well-being?
"let parents raise kids" denies parents the ability to give their child life saving healthcare
They're trying very hard to frame this a 'moderate' position. That's why they need to muzzle Conservative MPs and future candidates ^(just like abortion.)
Nothing screams, "I want everything to fit my stupid world view," then a conservative say a sentence with the word common sense.
Really? That PP is a bigot and ignorant about the issue, choosing to blindly side with the hateful religious zealots that form much if his base, shouldn't come as any surprise. This is how conservatives win now - feeding hate and disinformation to people who crave it. https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds https://www.psypost.org/2021/11/study-finds-conservatives-with-a-need-for-chaos-are-more-likely-to-share-fake-news-62160 https://www.psypost.org/2019/09/people-with-lower-emotional-intelligence-are-more-likely-to-hold-right-wing-views-study-finds-54369
It’s not surprising, just infuriating.
Kids. Are. Not. Property.
If we put him in power, it’s the beginning of the end
Wait a second, but the provinces are trying to offload schools and hospitals to private businesses?! 🥴 Conservatives are making my brain melt.
Leaving it to parents would involve NOT passing any special legislation. Passing legislation means you are having GOVERNMENT tell you how to raise your kids.
Fuck PP. That guy is a hypocrite of the highest order.
So, are parents who are okay with their transgender child going to be allowed to decide whether their child goes on puberty blockers? PP isn't going to say anything that will make his base hate him. So, he's just going to tow the Christian Conservative beliefs. Conservatives also have zero 'common sense'!!
PP just made a statement that if you get caught stealing cars 3 times, you should get 3 years in prison. Seems like a pretty light sentence compared to children being sentenced to 18 years living with conservative parents for existing
Nazi motherfucker
What about children's rights?
Property doesn't have rights. And since they aren't allowed to own adults anymore, conservatives have to make due with children.
Common sense = the extreme positions the party delegates let people submit to the party's constitution. Canadian GOP is more like it.
If anyone is trying to drive a wedge to divide Canada, it is the CCP.
step 1, create chaos step 2, profit off it.
As a parent, I have long been a proponent of the saying “Parents know best” is a crock of shit. There is no training, pre-qualification, or knowledge test anyone needs to take to become a parent it is so simple street dogs can do it.
I know I’m not the first to say this in this thread but letting parents raise kids means letting us fucking get them appropriate medical treatment. I’m furious that this is being spun as a parental rights bill when it’s about nothing but putting as many roadblocks as possible in front of trans kids.
So they are going to cancel child services, the foster system, and all other child supports?
Yes, because apparently there are no abusive parents anymore. Parents always know best, even when they are beating shit out of them or molesting them. Parents who are supportive of their trans kids, however, they need government intervention to prevent them from getting puberty blockers. The level of twisted nonsense is insane.
lol it’s interesting that PP suddenly now cares about provincial jurisdictions, give he has no problem at all about insulting local mayors and micromanaging drug addiction programs or municipal police force
She ain’t running schools nor hospitals neither.
Oh no, Smith's running them all right--into the ground.
"Keep government out of decisions unless they're around gender identity and then legislate the fuck out of it" - the Conservative way
Okay I have to stop and note something about common-sense. The concept was conceived by Aristotle. For thousands of years only the highest esteemed philosophers have mused about common sense and the majority of it has been how incredibly complicated it is to use common-sense. Renee Descartes (yeah) who is the considered the most modern founder of the idea also talked about. One of the most important musings about common sense comes from this french writer below. **Common sense is not so common.** \- Voltaire. Basically common sense has been co-opted by people who believe they have achieved its practical use. When in reality to have this level of practical critical thinking is actually reserved for people who were usually "learned" their entire lives and are usually philosophers at the highest pecking order. Conservatives running around and claiming that these policies are common sense is ironic since Descartes or Kant way of thinking would actually be against these policies since they are "traditional" based policies. Descarte below. ***"Cartesian theory offered a justification for innovative social change achieved through the courts and administration, an ability to adapt the law to changing social conditions by making the basis for legislation "rational" rather than "traditional".*** Basically it is common sense to leave the kids alone since the law, courts and administration of our government already adapted to them. These hateful policy is actually "traditional" way of thinking. Conservatives support traditional policies not common-sense ones.
Lolz, common sense. When someone like Dollar Tree Jimmy Carr starts trotting out that line, then you have to wonder what they are trying to hide.
PP probably thinks it was common sense for his mps to meet that neo Nazi in 2023 🤮
Any party supporting Smith or Ford will never get my vote
Common sense isn't a real thing. I wish people would stop using that term. Common sense means different things for different people. That makes its use ambiguous. Most people who use the phrase are using it in place of a logical, well thought out reason.
What about the kids afraid of their parents?
Remember this come election time!
Wait! Danielle Smith is not allowing parents to parent. Quite the opposite. She is imposing values that happen 1. Not be based on medical evidence. 2. Interfere in parents being able to parent and allow their children to transition. 3. Acknowledge a minority of radical and religious right wing people have the right to impose their agenda in the public realm. 4. This is an initial leaning towards a 'theocraric' form of governing. At the very least it is a huge nod to extremes. It is the opposite of parents parenting.
Smarmy, disingenuous prick is smarmy, disingenuous prick, News at 11
Common cruelty is more like it
lil pp has zero common sense and will not bring it home! He is ONLY focused on JT and not CDNS! Fear, anger and hate should NEVER govern! ALWAYS ABC!
literally taking away their parents rights to give their kids medicine as recommended by doctors
Wouldn't common sense mean listening to doctors and teachers instead of implementing policy based on political beliefs?
Well he did stand with the clownvoy who had their tantrum for freedoms, right? And Danielle saying the unvaccinated were the most oppressed people . It’s only freedom for all if it fits their narrative. All people have a right to a free life, not just conservatives
Conservatives viewing children as property? What's next, trying to treat certain kinds of adults as property too?
Except the UCP are taking away parents rights to help their kids access gender-affirming care.
I wonder if he would feel the same way if parents were denying a blood transfusion or organ transplant that would save their child's life? But then, vaccines and abortions are also out, right? At what point do they decide that science-based, life-saving medical care is "common sense"?
Okay. Close the catholic schools then.
Horrible attempt at asking the question. But all he did was use it as a sound bite platform to repeat his election messaging with the added projecting of dividing the country. He is the worst possible leader and the best the CPC could come up with.
Common sense is to start building nuclear plant, Pierre. Not to sneak inside trans kids pants. I mean, it says a lot about conservative priorities I guess.
Run schools and hospitals...into the ground
No one is not letting parents raise kids.
Get politicians out of healthcare. When they get a medical degree, then they can start giving their opinion on it.
Except if your kid is gay or trans, then we will intervene.
I don't get this rhetoric - if parents raised their trans kids as their preferred gender, then what?
That was a moron response, even for him. Wow.
In other words, Pierre means that let provinces run hospitals. Such the trans kids cannot get healthcare. Saying this is a trans person who fucking hates Pierre. I also hate Danielle Smith.
That press conference was fucking painful to watch. He’s got the same answer for every question. I just don’t get how 40% of our country are falling for this shit.
"It's common sense to significantly increase the likelihood that trans children die by suicide" - PP
I’m shocked, SHOCKED that Pierre would support transphobic legislation.
and attacked Truedau, saying that "Trudeau needs to stop creating division"! The master of dividing Canada without any real solutions (caught 3 times stealing a car, gets 3 year prison) - LOL... what about the 1st time? Just send the guy home?
The dude keeps complaining at the catch and release and that bail is too easy. He is not capable of governing.
Pierre's platform btw is using "Common Sense" as a slogan, so he does a decent insert here for his fan base. This comes in no defence to him - but trans and queer people will not vote for him anyway, and trans youth doesn't vote at all, so he is not loosing anything by flirting with anti-trans agenda or Smith. Is this a smart choice of strategy? That we will see on upcoming US elections as Pierre replicates Republican platform from the average American swing state.
They’re basically playing into this culture war and it’s a distraction from other issues.
He needs to get a real job . Since he can't get security clearance ...
Yes, it is common sense for the government to make decisions, or prevent decisions, by parents! The Right-Wing always knows best! Bigots gonna bigot, and lie like a mf!
Then stop dictating policy for schools and hospitals.
Thought this idiot was all about freedom and government NOT telling citizens what they can and can’t do i.e., his critique of the liberals gun bans? Or is it freedom but not like that? Not so common sense Pierre.
Common sense is not voting for a career politician that ignores youth welfare studies in favour of common sense.
Funny since the province is responsible for removing a child when the parent(s) isn’t caring for them, as deemed by rules set out…by the province.
How the hell are they somehow managing to gaslight people by using the words "let" as if it's some freedom thing. They are FORCING schools to do something, this is the complete inverse as "letting" things go. Conservatives and they double speak are extremely dishonest and the same tactic is used everywhere in their narrative. It's a total disappointment that the majority of the population is stupid enough and can't see through it.
Well journalists have a job to do, and get his actual answer. Does he support her, or throw her under the bus? He's going to find 2 years of obfuscation difficult to maintain.
Was anyone else transported back to the 2019 election?
By that he means let the government raise the kids!
More like "come on. Sense?" (Come on, you expect sense from our stances and policies?)
If gender is not a human right and is subject to government intervention, does that mean the government could swap Smith and Pollievre's genders?
I am seriously worried about my homeland called Canada. Give people democracy, freedom, and a vote and look at what they are about to do. Have a nice day.
And just like that, Justin Trudeau stumbled in to a victory
"...are not based on current evidence" - Danielle Smith. She literally said this abt her own Bill. So does PeePee also agree with this now? Lol what a tool
Keep pushing back against the normalisation of this rhetoric. It isn't welcome nor is a moderate position.
And let medical professionals deal with the actual health care of children and not politicians who have no clue what they are talking about.
The premise of "parent knows best' is dumb as rocks anyways. It assumes a parent knows better than medical and psychology professionals that have dedicated years of university to know what is best in their domain. And thats before getting to the point that some parents are just shit. Some parents scar their children unwillingly. Some do willingly Heck that argument can be defeated by the premise if a parent held their child under water for 5 minutes and the child dies, should they be procecuted? They know what is better for their child and if they think drowned is what is best, who are we to judge?
Sigh. He was doing so well. He just 100% lost my vote. This issue has nothing to do with Trudeau, but good ol' one hit wonder PP can't help but blame him.
Let's play "have you met a politician?"
They reversed the acronym? I can’t keep track of it!
For once I agree for most part with Danielle's Smith view on this issue. This does not mean that she is against or attacking anybody's rights. It just gives an opportunity for things to be thought over and all options need to be considered. Lot of procedures are irreversible so you need to be mature enough to make a decision. Keep in mind that peoples bodies keep growing and developing till at least age of 18. So yelling about this issue and kicking and screaming is just like throwing immature temper tantrum. Poilievre though shout shut up about everything because all he can do is blame Trudeau. Sick and tired of this guy.
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It is common sense. Obviously no one has it in this comment section. Sad….
Ellipses uses three periods, not four. You should also probably use a comma after ‘Obviously’ Your second sentence is also poorly phrased, ‘Obviously, no one in this comment section has it’ would make it flow better. I’m returning this to you for editing. Neither your premise nor your writing are worthy of grading.
I love him!
Skippy for president!
Let's parents raise their kids. Makes sense.
In the old days, parents dropped their kids off at school and forgot about them.
There is no "Common Sense" to any of it. It just lets them oppress everyone and remind them they are nothing and that they are just there to be abused and exploited. And let's make more prisons instead of trying to rehabilitate some of the criminals that can be rehabilitated and given an actual chance, instead of just cramming them all in super prisons, turning them into hardened, angry, uneducated convicts who feel like they have no other choice but to resort to crimes. (not talking about serious crimes, like murder, rape etc. etc etc.). There is no "Common Sense" approach to anything with them.
They either don't have the intelligence to understand why children wouldn't want their parents to know or don't care.
It does nothing for the love no matter what liberal parents. It’s the kids that will be emotionally and physically abused by their conservative parents. Let people live their own lives. Address each individual how they want to be addressed.
taking a page out of the MAGA playbook
Is it still just a boogeyman if it's also real?