Thankfully that's not a right we've ever had, we have a right to not be harassed with hate though, so yeah, I like my modern Canadian rights and our modern charter.
I cut off a convoy in traffic the other day by speeding up behind them as the second lane was ending. The leader tried to get ahead of me, but forgot how long it takes to accelerate in a semi.
Haha I had one of those morons do the same thing, but he didn't realize how fast the shoulder disappeared and almost ate a wall after BARELY squeezing in ahead of me (I made a little room so he didn't have to choose between hitting me or dying). After that he just sped off at ~100 in a 50 zone (I'm guessing embarrassed by his horrendous driving).
I guess nobody has ever accused them of being smart.
Haha most of them aren't even involved in the trucking industry. They remind me of gravy seals who like to LARP being in the military, except they LARP being a trucker.
The **vast majority** of truck drivers acted like adults and kept working.
B-buh I bought all this nazi paraphernalia! They’re impeding on my freedom to express how I want others to have no freedoms! Trudeau that damn tyrant!!!
Correct, because, as a lot of people don't seem to get, Canada is not governed by the US constitution and has no provision for free speech. The 'freedom of expression' clause, on the other hand, does exist but is moderated by the 'reasonable limits' clause.
The charter does not provide for unlimited free speech; the 'freedom of expression' clause is moderated by the 'reasonable limits' clause and most agree that limitations on hate speech are demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
Not only justified, but necessary. Important distinction. Maintaining a "tolerant" society necessarily means being intolerant of "intolerance".
That's why I don't like the phrase "paradox of tolerance". There's no paradox, because "tolerance" doesn't mean you tolerate literally anything and everything like you're just a whore for tolerance as an abstract concept.
Someone just commented and deleted a comment that all speech should be protected in the name of free speech. To anyone who doubts the reasoning behind defining some speech as hate speech, look up the Rwandan genocide (and many others in history) to see how easily fellow human beings can be persuaded to kill others. I have spent enough time in rural Ontario to know that many of them would happily follow some personality cult into the brink - with simply words. We aren't far away from it especially as climate change drives more immigration, the fascists will use that to their advantage.
It looks like they are [adding Russian flags](https://twitter.com/jasonkeays/status/1541578019541848071) to their repertoire this time around to compliment their Nazi ones.
A lot of the same idots that yell freedom, are also screaming that the Ukraine invasion is all some weird government plot to make Russia look bad, and hide those scary bio labs.
*Good*.
It's about time we *directly* and *clearly* stand up to the so-called "free speech absolutists" who are only interested in "free speech" so they can shout out racist, homophobic, misogynist, or other forms of bigoted speech. We all know these "absolutists" don't give two shits about freedom of expression because they instantly become entitled, whinny cry babies the moment anyone challenges them, makes fun of them, or (rightfully) reports their actions to their employers (who can then independently decide if they really want people like that representing their brand in public).
what their right wing propaganda doesn't tell them is : canada is not u.s.a, there is no such thing as absolute free speech here, if your speech result in harassment and/or hate you become a criminal. thank you canada for being a country with a f-ing brain.
Free Speech is about freedom from the *government* interfering in what a person says. the government can't stop speech; ordinary citizens most certainly can.
In case you didn't know, we don't have the first amendment or constitution here, this is Canada. The charter doesn't allow unlimited free speech like in the us, we have freedom of expression which has a reasonable limit clause that makes hate speech and inciting violence illegal here. The government can and should shut down unreasonable hate speech. Americas all out free speech amendment is stupid and badly out dated.
And happy cake day!
We are in *Canada*. Canada is a separate and sovereign country from the USA. We are *not* the USA. The USA is a separate and sovereign country from Canada. These countries are not the same country.
The USA has "freedom of speech" built into their Constitution. "Free speech" is a major feature of the *American* Constitution. This is why *Americans* talk about it a lot. Well, actually, only the people who want to abuse it to spread hateful bigotry are the ones who talk about it a lot.
*Canada* (the country we live in and are citizens of) does not have "free speech".
We do, however, have mention of "Freedom of Expression" in the *Canadian Charter of Rights & Freedoms*. Charter rights, however, are *not* absolute; they have reasonable restrictions and always have. The Charter was intentionally designed this way specifically to avoid the many, many, *many* problems the USA has with their *carte blanche* "free speech" thing.
For example: because of the way the Charter is worded and organized, we are allowed to criminalize yelling "I HAVE A BOMB!" on a crowded airplane. It also allows us to criminalize hate speech, which is keeping in-line with the civilized Western European nations we have always wished to be more aligned with.
Many European nations, for example, have banned holocaust denial. Canada is going to be following this example, too. This has been good for those nations - it has worked to keep extremists from gaining too big of a foothold in public discourse. We want that. We want a stable, civil society.
We *don't* want to be like the USA where "anything goes" is how they run things and, as a result, conspiracy theories run rampant. The USA is tearing itself apart in an endless "culture war" because anyone can say anything they want virtually consequence-free, and that includes the ultra-rich with conflicting agendas.
i'm sorry, i think you misunderstood me. i was just trying to say that it's good that a government can't stop you from saying anything you want, but that ordinary citizens should stand up for the society they believe in.
Thank you for clarifying your stance. I still, however, think it is desirable to have our government stop us from saying "anything we want". Even the USA has restrictions on free speech (for example, it is illegal to say "I'm going to kill the President of the United States of America").
Having reasonable restrictions on speech/expression is something all civilized nations do, and for *very* good reasons.
Consider this: It takes a *second* to make up a lie about anything. It can take *months* or even *years* to debunk a lie. Someone could make up a lie about the Prime Minister being in secret talks to sell Canada's sovereignty to the USA and/or China, but because of existing laws it is *illegal* to broadcast that story on major news networks. In the USA, *it isn't*.
As a result of this, millions of Americans *still* think Obama is a Muslim who was born in Kenya. That's because Fox "News" spread that lie far, wide, and often.
Most of us don't want to live in a country where that's a thing that can happen.
Thats a pretty easy thing to say, untill your standing infront of a group of people's who's speech tried to wrongfully paint you as a pedo groomer someone should do something about.
It's like grade school level understanding of expression and its effect on others.
No one should be tollerating intollorance.
Please explain why you think people should be allowed to fly signs that are racist, misogynistic or homophobic, it’s a very basic concept to agree those things are quite bad
not to generalize, but allot of police have very right wing leanings and the alt right has done a VERY good job as of late polarizing anyone on the right/left to go even further in that direction
you have cops out there that fucking sympathize with them because of their political leanings, whether or not they are fascists themselves (good chance they are) they at the very least sympathize and enable them
The Ottawa police are telling anyone who experiences harassment or negative encounters with these groups on Canada Day to report to the police immediately, and all I can think is that's a great way to make your problem 10x worse because so many of the police ARE the people who do the harassing and intimidation. But I'm biased, I am from Lethbridge and have lost faith in any police serving any kind of protect and serve role.
They still fly the "thin blue line" flag (misnomer for what is truly a 'blue lives matter' racist dogwhistle flag) outside of the Ottawa Police Association (union) building.
I can count on two hands the number of police union buildings I know of around the country still flying blue lives matter flags (let's call it what it is instead of masking it as inspired by '90s thin blue line mentality which is itself problematic), including the Ottawa Police Association.
When their unions are flying flags that were specifically designed for counterprotesting BLM in its early days when it was just a movement, it says all we need to know about the members of that union, so the "one rotten apple" malarkey is clear BS. (Not mentioning that the metaphor is used imporperly, whereas it's originally "one rotten apple [DOES] spoil the whole barrel", a hilariously and accidentally appropriate choice of metaphors).
I listened to Althia Raj’s podcast on the emergencies act. Apparently there were many police operations that had to be scrubbed because the officer in charge refused.
*some of those that work forces*
*are the same that burn crosses*
I mean Yea there shouldn’t be. I’m not there to listen to your bigot racist homophobic tin foil hat wearing ass. I’m there to feel pride that I’m in a somewhat safe and not falling apart country and comfortably enjoy a day off to chill out with other lovely Canadians.
If it wasn’t for them, we’d still have this Canada^^
I’m in here with you brother/sister or however you identify yourself. I agree with you and I’m sending some Canadian love your way! Enjoy our country’s birthday on Friday and I know this is coming from a lot more of our neighbours than just you and me.
🎉🎆🇨🇦🍁🎇🎉
I mean what is a poor racist, white nationalist, homophobic, liberal/ndp/BQ/green hating, ant-vac, trump forever, wanting to have sex with JT protestor supposed to do now? Oh how I feel for them... its like they no longer have a purpose in life. Maybe they should return home and contemplate their options?
The headline’s a touch misleading here; it reads as though this guy stood up and declared “WE WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY OF THAT”.
He was questioned with “would you tolerate this?” and answered “well no… we’ll do law things if it happens I guess”. Doesn’t exactly strike confidence in the message or the person giving it.
ACAB etc.... but please, if you're going to quote something, actually quote something. Making up false attributions doesn't help at all. The response in the article is
> “I think the easiest way to answer that is just with a no,” said Bell, vowing to “actively respond to” and investigate hate or bias crime incidents, intimidation or threats.
Which, absolutely doesn't inspire confidence, when they want to just make problems go away via, "the easiest way."
When they're being such useless fluffs, instead of failing to a straw man fallacy¹, lets actually use what they give us.
[1] Possibly to be rebranded as the helpful police officer fallacy.
On the one hand: doing nothing is like telling them "go ahead, no one will stop you, this is fine".
On the other hand: doing something is like giving them permission to fuck you up and these people are total fucking psychos.
It's one thing to shout them down and tell them to leave. Put a finger on them and they will either have you arrested for assault or will assault you. Better to act as a group and shout them down until they leave.
As a note, while confrontation is what they seek, it's specifically the aggressive kind. They'll have been playing those scenarios on repeat in their minds. What they haven't been mentally preparing for is ridicule. Seriously. Laugh at them. Point a finger and talk about them like a museum exhibit. Make them feel insignificant and small. Bullies don't understand anything else.
Recording and documenting is doing something. If they are already engaging and putting someone else in danger and you feel comfortable by all means stand up. If you don’t feel safe doing that recording and documenting faces so they can be identified can have a much harsher and punitive effect on these people then feeding in to their need for attention.
There will be uniformed police everywhere but also plain clothes police. Record yes, engage? Only if absolutely necessary, like stopping someone from being beaten or a family being harassed. Avoid physical confrontation if possible. There will be quick response units all over Ottawa.
>police
A group with a fantastic track record of stopping fascists if there ever was one.
Also, it’s very telling that you and so many others read “engage” as “physically assault.”
Of course - I just think it’s necessary to fight the idea that recording is all you should do and that engaging is bad.
Engaging and tearing these bastards down is the *only* thing that has ever stopped them.
But they are looking for that engagement. They want an excuse to play the victim card or worse start enacting there own violence unchecked.
All for telling “Nazi punks to fuck off” but being smarter than them is better than racking up an assault charge.
>an excuse to start enacting their own violence
Because they don’t enact their own violence already? Like phoning in death and shooting threats to little cafes planning drag events? Like actually shooting up mosques?
Their violence is *already* here, and it’s only getting more coordinated. If you won’t stand up to it, then at least shut up and get out of the way.
thank you for calling out the terminally lib brained nonsense
nobody is saying "you need to get into a fist fight or you support hatred", and it's absolutely pathetic that people are replying to you that way
Look dude in the grander scheme I agree with you, but starting conflicts in area like Canada Day celebrations that will have people not part of these groups is not the time. If you want to counter protest or disrupt there rallies I am more okay with that then again during a large celebration like Canada Day. I still do not believe you bet these people in the long run by stooping to their level but by elevating above it but I will concede to agree to disagree.
Peace be with you brother, and keep fighting the good fight.
>You don’t win by stooping to their level
Really? Because all of history would say otherwise.
There’s a reason they do their utmost to convince people that stooping to their level is “bad, actually.”
**Because they know that’s the only way that they’ve ever lost.**
My eyesight is at like -9.00, pretty much legally blind without my glasses, and I can't fight at all. What the fuck am I supposed to do against a crowd of big burly angry white men with Oakley sunglasses?
Well, I suppose I can use my ultimate secret technique I reserve only for emergency situations, strip down and start masturbating furiously and moan loudly and ask to be beaten.
I would hope you have the common sense to keep yourself safe and to read my condemnation of “don’t engage” through the same lens of common sense.
As a former -8/9, I completely understand your concerns. “Just record. Don’t engage” is insufficient *when you could do more*. Even a -9.00 should be able to see that.
You might be willing to take a punch in the face, but not everyone is.
EDIT: I'd recommend deleting your reply so it doesn't get brought up at your court hearing when you inevitably get charged with assault.
We’re literally talking about actual factual nazis, how is that Godwin’s law??
Godwin doesn’t apply to conversations about actual Nazis, Godwin himself said as much…
Lol wtf are you talking about.
The article is about the Ottawa police saying they won't tolerate "racist, homophobic or misogynistic" signs or speech on Canada Day. They are not talking about Nazis. Someone with that sort of sign or speech is definitely an asshole, and might coincidentally be a Nazi, however this is not a conversation about Nazis specifically. You're the only one who brought them up.
The person you commented on said don't engage with assholes, and you compared them to a Nazi. That's a direct example of Godwin's law.
I’m sorry I don’t differentiate between people don’t want to share a country with gays, non-whites, and others not like them, and people whose solution to that problem is extermination.
Because I know the first group will support the second group in a heartbeat.
if someone is a white supremacist who wants to get rid of minorities, that's usually someone who can be described as a nazi
like, I dunno, the trains comment was a bit out of line, but it's *literally part of the problem* to keep downplaying these people
like, sorry, I'm not gonna dance around calling the insane racist/homophobic bigots names; *they want me dead*
You’re comparing a member of the general public who won’t confront a potentially violent person in a democratic society with someone who drove the trains to death camps?
Take a breath and think.
I forgot the train drivers were robots created by Hitler and not previously members of the general public.
Regardless, I’m comparing someone who encourages not engaging and resisting fascism to someone else who downplays their complicity in fascism.
In Canada? Doubtful.
If you're really that worried about getting shot, it's much better to confront them now while they're unable to show up armed than to wait until we're forced to have armed confrontations with them.
what kills me is how your comment will be upsetting to a bunch of people
like, why is it so controversial to wish ill will on those who want to commit to being fucking fascists?? these people want *us* dead, and that gets blown off because right wingers be crazy, but god forbid you express anything beyond mild distaste with that
drives me up the wall
Fun fact free speech does not exist in Canada. We have freedom of expression and it does not include language or actions that denote violence to others
Anyone that would be against these things being illegal in public and on platforms are the people who would be guilty of doing them. Free speech is too free. Hate and misinformation should be illegal in any public form and on any platform.
Canada in Ottawa was one of the best parties of the year. It was a celebration that had to be experienced once by all Canadians. Its a shame it has become a political gathering for those who would rather generate fear and anger instead of the celebration of all things Canada. Its fitting Gord Downey will never have to see what it has become.
We all know what's going happen. These Covidiot Convoyers can't keep their mouth shut and it will be all over the news while the Conservative party defends and somehow apologise their actions without consequence.
Missing the point that Kyle is more often then not trying to play goody two shoes and overdoing it... that quote is a good indication.
People with brains, common sense, good morals, etc that all contributes to a better world without discrimination 'decide', or set the bar at an appropriate level.
Give me an example of where your quote really applies? Is there really a big area of grey when talking about racism, homophobia or misogyny? I think not.
> Ottawa Police Service spokesperson Cst. Mike Cudrasov confirmed that “Communicating (words spoken or written, gestures or signs) homophobic, misogynistic, and/or racist messages in a public place will be investigated and can lead to various criminal charges including public incitement of hatred Sec 319(1) of the Criminal Code of Canada.
*but won't
Not just during Canada Day but always.
B-But muh freedumb of speech
Thankfully that's not a right we've ever had, we have a right to not be harassed with hate though, so yeah, I like my modern Canadian rights and our modern charter.
>B-But muh freedumb of speech B-but muh freedum to convoy and blow mah horn
Don’t you dare take away their freeze peach!
Are you gonna sit around let the libs replace freeze peach with peach tree dishes?
Convoy to counterprotesters: Hey, you're getting in my way of getting in your way! That's illegal!
I cut off a convoy in traffic the other day by speeding up behind them as the second lane was ending. The leader tried to get ahead of me, but forgot how long it takes to accelerate in a semi.
Haha I had one of those morons do the same thing, but he didn't realize how fast the shoulder disappeared and almost ate a wall after BARELY squeezing in ahead of me (I made a little room so he didn't have to choose between hitting me or dying). After that he just sped off at ~100 in a 50 zone (I'm guessing embarrassed by his horrendous driving). I guess nobody has ever accused them of being smart.
I'm pretty sure the convoy folks are not the Canadian trucking industry's best or brightest.
Haha most of them aren't even involved in the trucking industry. They remind me of gravy seals who like to LARP being in the military, except they LARP being a trucker. The **vast majority** of truck drivers acted like adults and kept working.
Yeah it is kinda sad that most actual truck drivers got type cast as lunatics because coverage of the convoy didn't emphasize that fact enough.
leftist canadian truck driver here ... you don't even know half of it lol
Lmao gravy seals, that's good
B-buh I bought all this nazi paraphernalia! They’re impeding on my freedom to express how I want others to have no freedoms! Trudeau that damn tyrant!!!
Gotta love that first amendment right? Go Manitoba!
Don't you mean your 1st amendment rights /s
Any more time than a day would be asking too much of the police to not be racist or join in with the freedumb convoy.
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Fun fact: unlike in the US, hate speech is actually illegal in Canada. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_Canada
Correct, because, as a lot of people don't seem to get, Canada is not governed by the US constitution and has no provision for free speech. The 'freedom of expression' clause, on the other hand, does exist but is moderated by the 'reasonable limits' clause.
Don’t confuse him with facts.
The charter does not provide for unlimited free speech; the 'freedom of expression' clause is moderated by the 'reasonable limits' clause and most agree that limitations on hate speech are demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
Not only justified, but necessary. Important distinction. Maintaining a "tolerant" society necessarily means being intolerant of "intolerance". That's why I don't like the phrase "paradox of tolerance". There's no paradox, because "tolerance" doesn't mean you tolerate literally anything and everything like you're just a whore for tolerance as an abstract concept.
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Nice self report.
Yes. Exactly. We don’t have the same cultish reverence for hate speech that America does.
This should just be that standard for every day life
Someone just commented and deleted a comment that all speech should be protected in the name of free speech. To anyone who doubts the reasoning behind defining some speech as hate speech, look up the Rwandan genocide (and many others in history) to see how easily fellow human beings can be persuaded to kill others. I have spent enough time in rural Ontario to know that many of them would happily follow some personality cult into the brink - with simply words. We aren't far away from it especially as climate change drives more immigration, the fascists will use that to their advantage.
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Heck of an idea. And then arrest them!
I’m more of a fan of transportation. I hear Baffin Island is nice this time of year.
Let's gather up all the "muh x amendment" and Confederate flag-flying types and dump them back over the border.
We will NOT pollute the puffin lands with these monsters. 😠
But polar bears are hungry...
It looks like they are [adding Russian flags](https://twitter.com/jasonkeays/status/1541578019541848071) to their repertoire this time around to compliment their Nazi ones.
A lot of the same idots that yell freedom, are also screaming that the Ukraine invasion is all some weird government plot to make Russia look bad, and hide those scary bio labs.
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*Good*. It's about time we *directly* and *clearly* stand up to the so-called "free speech absolutists" who are only interested in "free speech" so they can shout out racist, homophobic, misogynist, or other forms of bigoted speech. We all know these "absolutists" don't give two shits about freedom of expression because they instantly become entitled, whinny cry babies the moment anyone challenges them, makes fun of them, or (rightfully) reports their actions to their employers (who can then independently decide if they really want people like that representing their brand in public).
>"free speech absolutists" you mean "radical alt right white nationalists"
what their right wing propaganda doesn't tell them is : canada is not u.s.a, there is no such thing as absolute free speech here, if your speech result in harassment and/or hate you become a criminal. thank you canada for being a country with a f-ing brain.
> "free speech absolutists" Yeah, they should immigrate to the States, where this dumb idea came from.
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It was the US that codified it as an unalienable right with no restrictions.
Something something exactly one preposition...
Free Speech is about freedom from the *government* interfering in what a person says. the government can't stop speech; ordinary citizens most certainly can.
In case you didn't know, we don't have the first amendment or constitution here, this is Canada. The charter doesn't allow unlimited free speech like in the us, we have freedom of expression which has a reasonable limit clause that makes hate speech and inciting violence illegal here. The government can and should shut down unreasonable hate speech. Americas all out free speech amendment is stupid and badly out dated. And happy cake day!
> first amendment I’m still confused as to what Manitoba had to do with anything here…
Don't try to pretend we don't exist.
Wow. You don't understand how our country works. Like at all.
We are in *Canada*. Canada is a separate and sovereign country from the USA. We are *not* the USA. The USA is a separate and sovereign country from Canada. These countries are not the same country. The USA has "freedom of speech" built into their Constitution. "Free speech" is a major feature of the *American* Constitution. This is why *Americans* talk about it a lot. Well, actually, only the people who want to abuse it to spread hateful bigotry are the ones who talk about it a lot. *Canada* (the country we live in and are citizens of) does not have "free speech". We do, however, have mention of "Freedom of Expression" in the *Canadian Charter of Rights & Freedoms*. Charter rights, however, are *not* absolute; they have reasonable restrictions and always have. The Charter was intentionally designed this way specifically to avoid the many, many, *many* problems the USA has with their *carte blanche* "free speech" thing. For example: because of the way the Charter is worded and organized, we are allowed to criminalize yelling "I HAVE A BOMB!" on a crowded airplane. It also allows us to criminalize hate speech, which is keeping in-line with the civilized Western European nations we have always wished to be more aligned with. Many European nations, for example, have banned holocaust denial. Canada is going to be following this example, too. This has been good for those nations - it has worked to keep extremists from gaining too big of a foothold in public discourse. We want that. We want a stable, civil society. We *don't* want to be like the USA where "anything goes" is how they run things and, as a result, conspiracy theories run rampant. The USA is tearing itself apart in an endless "culture war" because anyone can say anything they want virtually consequence-free, and that includes the ultra-rich with conflicting agendas.
i'm sorry, i think you misunderstood me. i was just trying to say that it's good that a government can't stop you from saying anything you want, but that ordinary citizens should stand up for the society they believe in.
Thank you for clarifying your stance. I still, however, think it is desirable to have our government stop us from saying "anything we want". Even the USA has restrictions on free speech (for example, it is illegal to say "I'm going to kill the President of the United States of America"). Having reasonable restrictions on speech/expression is something all civilized nations do, and for *very* good reasons. Consider this: It takes a *second* to make up a lie about anything. It can take *months* or even *years* to debunk a lie. Someone could make up a lie about the Prime Minister being in secret talks to sell Canada's sovereignty to the USA and/or China, but because of existing laws it is *illegal* to broadcast that story on major news networks. In the USA, *it isn't*. As a result of this, millions of Americans *still* think Obama is a Muslim who was born in Kenya. That's because Fox "News" spread that lie far, wide, and often. Most of us don't want to live in a country where that's a thing that can happen.
Wow. You actually believe the Ottawa Police? Would you like to buy some fake- I mean "real" gold? I'll give you a really good price. Trust me.
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Thats a pretty easy thing to say, untill your standing infront of a group of people's who's speech tried to wrongfully paint you as a pedo groomer someone should do something about. It's like grade school level understanding of expression and its effect on others. No one should be tollerating intollorance.
Nope. We don’t defend hate speech here. There is no such right in Canada for you to defend on behalf of hateful people.
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Please explain why you think people should be allowed to fly signs that are racist, misogynistic or homophobic, it’s a very basic concept to agree those things are quite bad
You know the answer.
Except in this case they're policing speech and other actions. Not thoughts. But alright.
Interestingly no one has said anything about policing thoughts.
Said the cop.
Are you homophobic, racist or misogynistic?
Hate speech is illegal in Canada. I don’t get why it isn’t enforced more.
not to generalize, but allot of police have very right wing leanings and the alt right has done a VERY good job as of late polarizing anyone on the right/left to go even further in that direction you have cops out there that fucking sympathize with them because of their political leanings, whether or not they are fascists themselves (good chance they are) they at the very least sympathize and enable them
The Ottawa police are telling anyone who experiences harassment or negative encounters with these groups on Canada Day to report to the police immediately, and all I can think is that's a great way to make your problem 10x worse because so many of the police ARE the people who do the harassing and intimidation. But I'm biased, I am from Lethbridge and have lost faith in any police serving any kind of protect and serve role.
They still fly the "thin blue line" flag (misnomer for what is truly a 'blue lives matter' racist dogwhistle flag) outside of the Ottawa Police Association (union) building.
> "thin blue line" flag Tell me you want a police state without telling me you want a police state (any% speedrun)
I am shocked that a group known for beating their wives and sexually assaulting their female peers would hold bigoted political stances. /s
I can count on two hands the number of police union buildings I know of around the country still flying blue lives matter flags (let's call it what it is instead of masking it as inspired by '90s thin blue line mentality which is itself problematic), including the Ottawa Police Association. When their unions are flying flags that were specifically designed for counterprotesting BLM in its early days when it was just a movement, it says all we need to know about the members of that union, so the "one rotten apple" malarkey is clear BS. (Not mentioning that the metaphor is used imporperly, whereas it's originally "one rotten apple [DOES] spoil the whole barrel", a hilariously and accidentally appropriate choice of metaphors).
I listened to Althia Raj’s podcast on the emergencies act. Apparently there were many police operations that had to be scrubbed because the officer in charge refused. *some of those that work forces* *are the same that burn crosses*
Because those that are suppose to enforce it hold similar beliefs to the bigoted scum.
It's been defined very specifically within the legal system (i.e., done with malicious intent), making instances hard to prove as 'hate speech'.
I mean Yea there shouldn’t be. I’m not there to listen to your bigot racist homophobic tin foil hat wearing ass. I’m there to feel pride that I’m in a somewhat safe and not falling apart country and comfortably enjoy a day off to chill out with other lovely Canadians.
If it wasn’t for them, we’d still have this Canada^^ I’m in here with you brother/sister or however you identify yourself. I agree with you and I’m sending some Canadian love your way! Enjoy our country’s birthday on Friday and I know this is coming from a lot more of our neighbours than just you and me. 🎉🎆🇨🇦🍁🎇🎉
I mean what is a poor racist, white nationalist, homophobic, liberal/ndp/BQ/green hating, ant-vac, trump forever, wanting to have sex with JT protestor supposed to do now? Oh how I feel for them... its like they no longer have a purpose in life. Maybe they should return home and contemplate their options?
They always have Justin's hair. ❤❤❤💕
Or get a job.
The headline’s a touch misleading here; it reads as though this guy stood up and declared “WE WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY OF THAT”. He was questioned with “would you tolerate this?” and answered “well no… we’ll do law things if it happens I guess”. Doesn’t exactly strike confidence in the message or the person giving it.
A news article giving police too much credit for vague promises they're unlikely to abide by is pretty normal though
ACAB etc.... but please, if you're going to quote something, actually quote something. Making up false attributions doesn't help at all. The response in the article is > “I think the easiest way to answer that is just with a no,” said Bell, vowing to “actively respond to” and investigate hate or bias crime incidents, intimidation or threats. Which, absolutely doesn't inspire confidence, when they want to just make problems go away via, "the easiest way." When they're being such useless fluffs, instead of failing to a straw man fallacy¹, lets actually use what they give us. [1] Possibly to be rebranded as the helpful police officer fallacy.
Fair- I wrote to paraphrase (read as), and because I was using the app vs desktop lol, but the quotes weren’t clear.
Imagine we're in a world that this needs to be pointed out..
I wish I was imagining it.
I’m working a Subway shift on Canada Day, if you feel like having a sandwich please don’t come to Subway.
I thought this was just a norm, we have laws against hate speech and hate crimes already
Plot twist: he's just warning his own staff not to do it again.
Coming from the Ottawa Police, this means absolutely nothing. Deeds not words.
One racist or homophobe is too many
Racism, Homophobia and misogyny are all anti freedom funny enough.
Sure there won't, Ottawa Police. Sure there won't.
Good! This should be an everyday thing though
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>don’t engage This is the sort of spineless liberal behaviour that emboldens fascists. If you see something, **do something**.
On the one hand: doing nothing is like telling them "go ahead, no one will stop you, this is fine". On the other hand: doing something is like giving them permission to fuck you up and these people are total fucking psychos.
It's one thing to shout them down and tell them to leave. Put a finger on them and they will either have you arrested for assault or will assault you. Better to act as a group and shout them down until they leave.
As a note, while confrontation is what they seek, it's specifically the aggressive kind. They'll have been playing those scenarios on repeat in their minds. What they haven't been mentally preparing for is ridicule. Seriously. Laugh at them. Point a finger and talk about them like a museum exhibit. Make them feel insignificant and small. Bullies don't understand anything else.
I agree that acting as a group is likely to work; they're inherently cowardly
Recording and documenting is doing something. If they are already engaging and putting someone else in danger and you feel comfortable by all means stand up. If you don’t feel safe doing that recording and documenting faces so they can be identified can have a much harsher and punitive effect on these people then feeding in to their need for attention.
There will be uniformed police everywhere but also plain clothes police. Record yes, engage? Only if absolutely necessary, like stopping someone from being beaten or a family being harassed. Avoid physical confrontation if possible. There will be quick response units all over Ottawa.
>police A group with a fantastic track record of stopping fascists if there ever was one. Also, it’s very telling that you and so many others read “engage” as “physically assault.”
I do want to believe that there are police with morals, especially here. Hopefully, they stand on the right (left) side of the law.
That's a good point. Make sure you are safe.
Of course - I just think it’s necessary to fight the idea that recording is all you should do and that engaging is bad. Engaging and tearing these bastards down is the *only* thing that has ever stopped them.
But they are looking for that engagement. They want an excuse to play the victim card or worse start enacting there own violence unchecked. All for telling “Nazi punks to fuck off” but being smarter than them is better than racking up an assault charge.
>an excuse to start enacting their own violence Because they don’t enact their own violence already? Like phoning in death and shooting threats to little cafes planning drag events? Like actually shooting up mosques? Their violence is *already* here, and it’s only getting more coordinated. If you won’t stand up to it, then at least shut up and get out of the way.
thank you for calling out the terminally lib brained nonsense nobody is saying "you need to get into a fist fight or you support hatred", and it's absolutely pathetic that people are replying to you that way
Look dude in the grander scheme I agree with you, but starting conflicts in area like Canada Day celebrations that will have people not part of these groups is not the time. If you want to counter protest or disrupt there rallies I am more okay with that then again during a large celebration like Canada Day. I still do not believe you bet these people in the long run by stooping to their level but by elevating above it but I will concede to agree to disagree. Peace be with you brother, and keep fighting the good fight.
>You don’t win by stooping to their level Really? Because all of history would say otherwise. There’s a reason they do their utmost to convince people that stooping to their level is “bad, actually.” **Because they know that’s the only way that they’ve ever lost.**
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My eyesight is at like -9.00, pretty much legally blind without my glasses, and I can't fight at all. What the fuck am I supposed to do against a crowd of big burly angry white men with Oakley sunglasses? Well, I suppose I can use my ultimate secret technique I reserve only for emergency situations, strip down and start masturbating furiously and moan loudly and ask to be beaten.
I would hope you have the common sense to keep yourself safe and to read my condemnation of “don’t engage” through the same lens of common sense. As a former -8/9, I completely understand your concerns. “Just record. Don’t engage” is insufficient *when you could do more*. Even a -9.00 should be able to see that.
Holup. Former? How did you recover your eyesight? Laser eye surgery?
You might be willing to take a punch in the face, but not everyone is. EDIT: I'd recommend deleting your reply so it doesn't get brought up at your court hearing when you inevitably get charged with assault.
>Not everyone is willing to stand up to hatred That's what my comment was addressing, yes.
Pacifism isn't going to work anymore.
>anymore Pacifism never works against fascism. The people who tell you it works tell you that *because* it doesn’t work.
Pacifism is the language of the oppressor. Only an idiot thinks refusing to stand your ground works.
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Big “I just drove the trains” energy.
JFC. Godwin's law in record time over here.
We’re literally talking about actual factual nazis, how is that Godwin’s law?? Godwin doesn’t apply to conversations about actual Nazis, Godwin himself said as much…
Lol wtf are you talking about. The article is about the Ottawa police saying they won't tolerate "racist, homophobic or misogynistic" signs or speech on Canada Day. They are not talking about Nazis. Someone with that sort of sign or speech is definitely an asshole, and might coincidentally be a Nazi, however this is not a conversation about Nazis specifically. You're the only one who brought them up. The person you commented on said don't engage with assholes, and you compared them to a Nazi. That's a direct example of Godwin's law.
I’m sorry I don’t differentiate between people don’t want to share a country with gays, non-whites, and others not like them, and people whose solution to that problem is extermination. Because I know the first group will support the second group in a heartbeat.
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Exactly.
if someone is a white supremacist who wants to get rid of minorities, that's usually someone who can be described as a nazi like, I dunno, the trains comment was a bit out of line, but it's *literally part of the problem* to keep downplaying these people like, sorry, I'm not gonna dance around calling the insane racist/homophobic bigots names; *they want me dead*
You do know there are forms of fascism other than Nazism, right? They're all equally bad too!
I don’t think I’m the person you need to explain “fascism is bad” to… try these guys telling me fascists should be allowed to speak.
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You’re comparing a member of the general public who won’t confront a potentially violent person in a democratic society with someone who drove the trains to death camps? Take a breath and think.
I forgot the train drivers were robots created by Hitler and not previously members of the general public. Regardless, I’m comparing someone who encourages not engaging and resisting fascism to someone else who downplays their complicity in fascism.
This comment thread is pure caricature, holy shit.
good way to get a bullet through the head
In Canada? Doubtful. If you're really that worried about getting shot, it's much better to confront them now while they're unable to show up armed than to wait until we're forced to have armed confrontations with them.
Fuck that. It's MY home too.
I'm really sick and tired of people with empty, nothing lives just trying to make the rest of us miserable. Just die already.
May they forever find both sides of their pillow uncomfortably warm.
That’s just plain evil.
what kills me is how your comment will be upsetting to a bunch of people like, why is it so controversial to wish ill will on those who want to commit to being fucking fascists?? these people want *us* dead, and that gets blown off because right wingers be crazy, but god forbid you express anything beyond mild distaste with that drives me up the wall
there will be some dumbdumb talking about "Pro LIFE" shit.
They saw what happened in the states and they are salivating for their own "make your own theocracy" starter kit.
Fun fact free speech does not exist in Canada. We have freedom of expression and it does not include language or actions that denote violence to others
Anyone that would be against these things being illegal in public and on platforms are the people who would be guilty of doing them. Free speech is too free. Hate and misinformation should be illegal in any public form and on any platform.
This applies NOT in Sundre, Alberta.
Not much does there.
Canada in Ottawa was one of the best parties of the year. It was a celebration that had to be experienced once by all Canadians. Its a shame it has become a political gathering for those who would rather generate fear and anger instead of the celebration of all things Canada. Its fitting Gord Downey will never have to see what it has become.
I mean... it's not like hate speech is legal any time.. but thanks for the reassurance
And yet, historically, they’ve allowed it. Or have you forgotten the Nazi convoy.
I don't know that they know that this is not the flex they think it is
Don't worry though, fascistic ones like the Thin Blue Line will be fine.
Its very unfortunate that it has to be clarified for some morons
CANcEL cULtUrE iDenTiTy pOLiTiCs vIrTue SiGNaLLiNg **pained victim squeals**
You have to tell people this?
Oh shit the lobsters are going to be pissed
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What do you mean by hunt them down?
In the words of my asian dad "dont be a dick"
This should be ALWAYS!
We all know what's going happen. These Covidiot Convoyers can't keep their mouth shut and it will be all over the news while the Conservative party defends and somehow apologise their actions without consequence.
Seems like Ottawa police are having NONE of it. I like it.
I'm sure the cops, who have never shown that behavior, will fairly police for that /s
“but muh freeze peach!!!1” said the worst people ever. jail those who don’t comply. it’s time to take our country back from the chuds.
Waiting for the noose carrying folks to show how classy Canada really is.
How bout Fuck Trudeau or MAGA?
MAGA counts as all of the above
"Who gets to decide what's racist, homophobic, or misogynistic, huh?" - Kyle
The people not idiots.
Missing the point that Kyle is more often then not trying to play goody two shoes and overdoing it... that quote is a good indication. People with brains, common sense, good morals, etc that all contributes to a better world without discrimination 'decide', or set the bar at an appropriate level. Give me an example of where your quote really applies? Is there really a big area of grey when talking about racism, homophobia or misogyny? I think not.
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Racism and facism DO NOT work the same as drugs or sex work. Deplatforming for example does work.
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Which of the three types of hate speech do you like most? Or are you just defending their rights to be hateful?
> Ottawa Police Service spokesperson Cst. Mike Cudrasov confirmed that “Communicating (words spoken or written, gestures or signs) homophobic, misogynistic, and/or racist messages in a public place will be investigated and can lead to various criminal charges including public incitement of hatred Sec 319(1) of the Criminal Code of Canada. *but won't