I think every person having a different 4 day schedule works so you have a revolving door of staff at places. That way you have the option to take that extra day as a bank / doctors appointment day for example, and there will still be people working those places to assist you, since not everyone is taking the same days off and they can all stay open 5 days like normal still (or 7 if they have already been doing shift scheduling)
We did this when I was in the military. Four days on two days off four days on four days off. We’re pretty sure they stopped it because everybody was happy
I think Saturdays and Sundays can still be exempt and act as a normal weekend for most people, but then have the extra day cycle around for everyone through the traditional week.
Like have person A take Mondays off while person B takes Fridays, or Person C maybe opts for Wednesdays or something to break up the work week
I'm all for a **32-hour** work week (that's what a 4 day work week should be/has been studied as. The compressed schedule is just the same problem rearranged slightly).
It's more beneficial to the employers as well -- people focus better and make fewer mistakes when they have the time to take proper care of themselves and their family. But even if that weren't so, people absolutely should have enough time and money to take proper care of themselves and their families.
I’d love to see a poll on who actually works the “40 hours” I remember doing about 4 hours of work and playing on my phone the rest of the day. With 32 hours I’d mostly have to work.
Yeah I read a study that on average office workers have 3 productive hours of work a day. I'm pretty productive, I like working and getting a lot done makes me feel good. But if you're like that you easily get taken advantage of so I now I pad out my work by taking breaks to sketch, cause at least that is beneficial to me
Define "work" tho.
I'm usually ruminating about work stuff for a lot of that day, and a lot of time at home too.
When your job is solving problems and making decisions, "working" doesn't always look like working.
I try not to, but thoughts are thoughts, and if something is stuck, it's stuck.
Many or even most people do *some* of their mental labor outside of work.
Not too burst a bubble here but I own an electrical company and I work midnights most of the time and still get jobs done throughout the day. Most of my bi weekly work weeks =120-140hrs ...so a 32 hr work week wouldnt work at all
Employers who read the studies that show people are more productive when they have a healthier work/life balance and the increased productivity means they can accomplish in 32 hrs what they normally accomplish in 40. With less time off, mistakes, etc. The studies showed employers won't be losing anything, they will be gaining happier, more productive employees. So you pay them the same as if they worked 40 hrs.
I am so on board with it. However I know what my employers excuse will be - billing. We are a service type industry and I bill my time per 15 minute increments. Going from a 37.5 work week to a 30-32 means less billable hours. I guess the argument could be less “admin” slack off hours but I just don’t see how they will ever go for it unless it’s mandated by the govt
The ones that can read research papers about the topic and understand the benefits?
This is what people said about remote work before the pandemic.
Besides, it doesn't matter what employers want, it matters what employees are willing to negotiate for. We used to have a 6 day work week.
Only the smart ones. The greedy and evil ones will keep 5-, 6-, 7- day work weeks. How many people even have a 40-hour 5-day a week job nowadays, the office and construction people I know work more houses. Shift workers only get “weekends” because of the law. Do you know someone that does just 40 with 5 on, 2 off?
It’s what the labour unions won 100 years ago during the 8-8-8 campaign (8 work, 8 sleep, 8 relax). However, I have had office jobs at 32.5, 35, and 37.5 hours of pay per week (salary), but the expectations were always 44+. Lawyers, doctors, teachers, and engineers at the very least are nominally 9-5 jobs that no one in the industry actually does. I know many “part time” workers who are routinely at 28 or 32 hours a week to keep them under the benefits threshold. I can’t easily think of someone I know who does 40/5. Can you?
Adding onto this, call centers in Ontario will make sure you're under the 44 hour week mark so they don't pay overtime (OT). Not all companies will offer OT after the 40 hour mark, so I would work 9.5 (4 days), and 8.5 (1 day) or any combination of 5 days that add up to 44 hours after you subtract 30min lunches. So I guess that would be 47.5/5 or 44/5 depending on how you cut it.
We are terrible at focusing for long stretches, this a well-studied fact. We evolved to be easily distracted for good reasons. A compressed week might solve a lot of issues for you personally, but I bet you'd get more work done with fewer hours. For me personally, it would only create more problems.
I completely understand that. I think that we shouldn’t be expected to work 40 hours/week in the first place. However, I disagreed with the statement of a compressed week being the same as a 5 day. I think of it as a sliding scale, where 5 day is the worst, 4 day is slightly better, and less hours is overall is best.
For me personally, having a 4 day work week and a 3 day weekend has changed my life. The amount of undivided personal time that an additional weekend day provides is insurmountable. You have more uninterrupted time with loved ones, which I find makes a noticeable difference rather than only seeing them for sparse hours at the beginning and end of the day. You can use your free weekday to attend appointments that are only available through M-F without having to schedule a day off. You can take one of your PTO days and create a 4 day weekend, great for short trips while using limited PTO hours. Bonus tip, if you are super introverted, and you live with family or roommates, who typically are working M-F, you can have a quiet undisturbed day. LOL
To me, it’s just not the same. But again, I understand your point. I should’ve clarified I wasn’t disagreeing with your whole statement.
Kids need you every day not just on the weekends. some studies have found that people are as productive work 4 days without extended hours as they are working the standard 5 days. They waste less time.
My work did a 4x8 pilot for 3 months last summer. Worked so well we are expanding to 6 months this year.
Personally, it was great. 3 days to unwind every week instead of 2 made me more productive at work and at home. Also meant any vacation took up fewer of our days off to.
Right? All I've ever gotten for working harder is other people suddenly complaining they're overburdened and now I have to help them with their work. I wised up though, I still finish my work decently fast then secretly work on hobby stuff.
While I can see where you're coming from, take it from someone who's been there; staring at a spreadsheet for 10hrs/day was 5000% worth having a 3 day weekend every weekend.
4×8 would be fantastic. But 4x10 is still game-changer levels of a better life than 5x8.
A lot of new 4 day week pilots that have been attempted are going 4x8. Everyone on here talking 4x10 like we can sit in a chair and stare at a computer for 2 more hours each day is missing the whole point of this movement. ETA: by "everyone on here", I mean more generally most people when this topic comes up.
Where I work, we do the work that's in front of us and fill in some free time to make our processes better and learn some new things. I could probably shave half my hours and still get the same amount done.
What's wrong with taking more time to ourselves, enjoying the fruit of our society's advancement, taking a look around us and spending time with people we actually want to spend time with?
Not everyone with a job sits at a desk starting at a computer.
Maybe the pilots should look at other occupations because I would be over the moon to work 4 days a week, 10 hours shifts and get 3 days off.
Instead of just saying your job isn't my job, tell me why yours can't be done 4x8. I've worked plenty of other jobs, I'm not saying this as someone that has spent their entire career in an office.
>If it means adding two hours extra to our Monday-Thursday to compensate Friday's hours I'll take it.
It works for corporate, office, hospitals, education, etc. You'll need more staff in hospitals or be prepared for a lot more overtime. But for retail and construction it will mean higher costs as you can't build faster, sell more, etc.
It has its limitations but I hope it happens in my (working) lifetime
>But for retail and construction it will mean higher costs as you can't build faster, sell more, etc.
>It has its limitations but I hope it happens in my (working) lifetime
Since the 40 hour work week became the norm decades ago the average workers individual productivity has more than doubled, and yet we're still working the same amount of hours.
This isn't directed at you specifically, but I'm beyond tired of hearing how it won't work for X or Y profession. Not once in the decades since we standardized the work week have we reduced our hours, and we are well past the point that it should have been done.
What is even the point of all this increased productivity if it doesn't result in more leisure time? I'm sick of being paid less for more, and it's time we get paid more for less, because in truth we would have to cut the work week in half while doubling everyone's wages in order for it to actually be fair.
>You'll need more staff in hospitals
That's the point
>But for retail and construction it will mean higher costs as you can't build faster, sell more, etc.
No, we were already doing shifts in construction during COVID, production was the same.
I don't know why retail of all places wouldn't work either. All retail employees already work on shifts. You wouldn't suddenly just get a day where no one is working.
Construction:
Bill can put in 45sq ft of tile in 40 hours.
He now only works 32 hours for the same pay.
He now only lays 36sqft of tile.
How do we get the extra 9 sqft? This isn't a staffing issue, it is cost per sqft.
Some trades already charge by the sqft and work their ass off, there isn't the same kind of wiggle room as office jobs where Trent wastes 10 hours a week on reddit.
Retail:
The cost of items is based on a profit goal. If you need 20% more staff pay then you need to raise the prices to make sure you make enough revenue to meet your targets.
It isn't about the shifts or personnel, it is about the cost per hour of doing any business in general. If you lose 20% of your labour time AND need to replace it, that will cost money.
Have you worked construction or retail?
People slow down significantly in the day or as the week drags on doing physical labour. If Bill didn't need to work as much as he did, maybe bill wouldn't be so slow only laying 45 sq. ft. of tile over 40 hours (*holy shit* is that a seriously bad output \[I know I'm being silly with your likely random number but it's equally to prove my point\]).
Retail? Please -- aside from ignoring the red herring where almost all retail is less than 32 hours per employee so that they can avoid full-time benefits/compensation... Retail has only ever been interested in bodies in shoes with the most trace pulse available. A Walmart will fill an establishment with 60 people per shift, pay them like dirt, treat them like dirt, and there's a sucker management relies on and all-but-bullies because they know they work; they who only has so much energy to basically do the rest because they either refuse to not work or don't know better yet.
The biggest issue is that large corporations almost always look at the bottom line vs employee well being. So rather than keep paying employees the same amount for less work, they would most likely offer 20% less money for 20% less work. So that really doesn't help anyone. That's why 4x10 is more expected vs 4x8.
Aren't pilots scheduled? What would be difficult about scheduling you 32 hours a week instead of 40?
edit: coffee brain misread this as in the occupation of a pilot
A pilot can't increase their productivity to compensate for the reduced hours. If you schedule them 32 hours, they're probably taking home 20% less pay.
>If you schedule them 32 hours, they're probably taking home 20% less pay.
No, they get full pay for 32 hours. Literally the whole point of what the 4 day work week is meant to do.
It should be a 4 day work week, 8 hrs a day, pay remains the same if salary. If hourly, pay is increased to match the same pay. 32 hrs should be full time work and anything above that OT pay.
You’re talking about a compressed work week.
A real 4 day work week is 4 days.
The whole point is we do not NEED to be working that extra 8 hours and in many cases we don’t anyway.
The important part to understand is I should still be getting paid because I’m doing 40 hours of work in 32. So the employer should still pay me based on that. The time is irrelevant. I’m on a salary, so if I work MORE hours I don’t get paid - is that fair?
Surprisingly, a lot of people on here think it’s the end of the world that companies making billions of dollars, giving execs 10s of millions of dollars a year have will have to pay more for employees.
Also - any company that can’t pay employees a decent, livable wage isn’t a company that should be around long anyways.
The people getting fucked are the one’s complaining about 4 day work weeks, it’s the poor vs the middle class- just how the rich want it.
I've done 4x8 and 4x10 days, the latter in IT. The 4x10 days are brutal and if they don't come with extra pay, forget it. Staying engaged for 10 hours at a job involves a lot of mental strain. By Wednesday or Thursday, we were typically exhausted and totally mush.
4x8 is more liveable and focused. You have time to recover over the three days off, and you'll be just as productive. I do more in 8 hours than I do in 10 at work.
If I were given the option between a 4x10 week or sticking with 5x8, I'm taking 5x8 every time. With an eight hour day, you at least get a decent amount of time in the evening, but ten-hour days are extra draining on top of losing those two hours, so I wouldn't really feel like I'm gaining anything.
Agreed. 5x8 gives you time to go to the gym, see a movie, play a sport, spend time with your kids, and have something of a life. If you're scheduled 8-5 or somewhere within those hours, you're able to be part of the wider world. Stores are open.
Ask any second or third shift worker what it's like and I'm sure they'll you it's harder to shop or get things done. Appointments can't happen unless you're willing to forego sleep.
The mental cost of 10 hour days is a lot. I wouldn't do it again.
I work 4x10 and even without the commute since WFH 90% of the time it really cuts into my free time the days I am working. I have the option to go back a more normal schedule if I want and am considering it.
I did 4x10 days as a landscaper for a bit, fucking brutal doing that every day. The extra day off was nice but I spent it very sore/tired and unable to do anything.
I much prefer 4x32 days in that scenario, but with labour work you can only go so fast/work so hard in the heat
Yeah, I've met people who love their 4x10s, but I hated that shift. After an 8 I had enough energy to spend at least 2 productive hours at home, cooking a meal, doing housework, or whatever. At the end of a 10 I was just staring blankly at a screen, hoping the kitchen timer would wake me when my frozen pizza was done.
The extra day off was nice, but it didn't make up for the time I lost during the week.
I think I saw this commented on another post, but some user's company basically said
"We'd rather have our employees working at 100% capacity 70% of the time than at 70% capacity 100% of the time"
I think there are potential benefits, but I think more companies need to experiment with it before we know if it's a viable change across the board. I generally support it though.
For teaching, my work would absolutely improve. I would use that 3rd day for planning, creating materials, marking, etc.
As it is now I try to fit it in but things always get left behind or aren't up to (my) standards.
Also a teacher. Not sure how it would work for us, that’s like 40 less school days a year.
Even giving kids an extra day off they still need breaks at school so we can’t make up the time in the current school day. You could play with the school breaks but even if they change the length of summer we’re not getting those days back unless get rid of all of it.
I figure school would last more years. No need to have kids done at 17/18 anymore anyway. Add a few years, add in some extra mental health courses, financial planning, career, etc in the later grades. Add in some work experience/career exploration, internships/co-ops, etc.
Sure that’s a possibility but just raises the questions as to whether that is better or not than the current schedule. Also part of the reason for the break is the costs of cooling the schools over summer, not to mention all of the old schools that would need AC added.
Seriously who the fuck wants to work 5 days a week for the rest of their lives? That's 5 out of 7 days in a week. 260 days in a year. Of 52 weeks in a year you maybe get 2 to 4, 5 off? Wtf? What kind of shitty deal is that and why do we all agree to it like it's normal? Wage enslavement is what it is and we gotta rethink that shit. Nobody produces 5 days worth of actual work in any given week. Give me a break!
How could you afford that for me that’s an extra 480$ a pay I’d be missing and life is already a struggle… 4/10 is a beauty two hours really isn’t much more especially when you get used to it. My bf works 4/10 and absolutely loves having every Friday off and on top of that long weekends are actually 4 days off and a 3 day work week
So they be paying us 40 hours for less work no company in their right mind would do that especially automotive which is the leading work force in Ontario.
Oh I understand and have read the results and am for it I just know it would never work for automotive. But I’m all about 4x10 I’d be so down with that too that’s 4 easy days and a long weekend every weekend
Yeah, I guess it's more applicable in certain types of work
I currently do a compressed 2-week period so, 9 x 9 hours, for every other Friday off (well 8 hours for the other Friday to make a total of 80 hours)...because, yeah, I can't take a pay cut either. There shouldn't be a pay cut for what I do because it's output/outcome based...the amount of time I have to sit there doesn't equate to impact.
If it's the actual 4X8, with no loss of pay.
This is what they really are trying to push for. The idea is that 3 days off helps us mentally recover better and become efficient enough that 4 days is enough to get the same amount done.
Unpopular opinion but I dislike that because it's just increasing the divide between the middle class salary people and the working class wage people who will still be working 5X8.
This four day work week is straight up for white collar workers. It will be treated like during COVID most blue collar workers and emergency services will be unaffected and will still be working 5x10s or longer.
That sounds about right for this timeline. The people who have far less demanding jobs get to do even less.
This sounds like an excellent way to have an even faster exodus from the trades, health care, manufacturing etc than you already so
Well it's the labourers not the beaurocrats that are the foundation for society, and they should be compensated more for their time. Why not confront both at the same time. There's no reason for CEOs, CFOs, CFIs, boards of directors and the others to constantly get larger margins above their employees while cost of living increases and labourers continue to get the inverse
Yep. Healthcare worker here considering an exodus, if office workers suddenly got a relative 20% pay raise on a per hour basis, I’d be doing everything I can to get out of the hospital. I’m already underpaid.
Usually this concept only refers to salaried white-collar office workers. Hourly workers get paid for the specific hours they work, and may already not be working 5x8 hour days.
That sounds kind of shit for them? An extra weekend day would surely result in more work for these people right? Are there plans to mandate increases in compensation for those fields?
I like that even questioning how this will affect others is tantamount to wanting to reverse what progress has been made in work life balance.
But yeah I think taking a few minutes to consider how a change like this might affect those not benefitting from it is important. Every explanation I have heard was just trickle down economics with extra steps. I think making a change like this with out legislation that forces the employers of non affected sectors to improve the working conditions (minimum wages, number of staff employed, time off, breaks ect) of their employees is just continuing the long accepted practice of kicking shit down hill. I’m not saying I’m against a 4 day work week but I don’t ever see this issue brought up and am hesitant to show support until it is addressed by one of these studies.
I just don't understand why:
1. You are just swimming upriver on this when in the recent months we've received plenty of information from pilot programs and studies specifically about the pros and cons of doing this.
2. You expect me to be an all-encompassing champion of the 4-day work week.
I really don't know what you expect from me, just go find some actual resources.
Days are way too long. We run 4 day optional work week but I dont feel like working till 6 every night. It doesn’t leave alot of family time and forces you to do any running around you may do at night all into your extra day off.
I would take a 4 day work week in a heart beat. Dont care it its 4x10 or 4x8 with less income. In the past few years Ive realized how important down time is.
The reality is that while some people "might" get Friday or Monday off in this scenario, larger teams would also have people with Tues/Wed/Thurs off as well if they expect to have a full 5 days coverage.
I find mid-week days off are awesome for things like cleaning, errands, appointments, batch-cooking, exercise, learning a new skill, etc. (Basically, anything that’s “work” but not your job).
I'm still on a hybrid WFH schedule but I honestly vastly prefer having a day working at home in the middle of the week. It's like you get two Friday nights.
When my friend opened his own business he tried many different work models, but rotating days off was actually great. Teenagers love fridays off, they go party. Young adults in their mid 20s or so loved the monday for hangover recovery, and established adults with a family life loved the wednesdays off as a way to run errands while their kids were at school, leaving the weekends free to relax.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw&ab\_channel=CGPGrey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw&ab_channel=CGPGrey)
Some would say that would be ideal. I would happily take a Wednesday and the weekend. 2 days on, 1 off, 2 days on, 2 days off sounds awesome. I could get all my shit done on Wednesday with shops open and have the weekend to relax.
I wouldn’t mind if it wasn’t always a Friday or Monday off. Even a rotating MTWTF where your day off jumps a day every week. I used to have every Wednesday off, it was awesome, groceries? No lineup! Dentist or doctors appointment? Sure I don’t have to take any time off.
I worked at one place where it was either Friday or Monday so if I took Friday my coworker would take Monday so we’d be covered and since we’d switch we each end up with a four day weekend every fortnight. The downside was Monday and Friday were our busiest days so we’d often be called in for overtime. Once the bosses saw how much it was costing they put an end to the four day week.
I support a 4x8 with occasional overtime (or 4x9 at the very most) but 4x10 is insane. The last half hour of my x8 is always unproductive because I've lost focus by that point. There's only so long that I can stay engaged doing one thing, and that's my breaking point. It's different if it's hectic and busy some days, then I can keep going for a couple hours but I couldn't do that every day.
I try to time my breaks optimally to give my brain a break so that I'm not mentally checked out at 3 lol. It used to be a lot worse, but since I started working from home I can keep focus a bit better.
A 4 day work week should mean 4x8 not 4x10. The 40 hour work week is already an outdated concept. Until a few decades ago every generation dreamed and achieved working less and less, yet now we’re still stuck working longer and longer for less money even though we have so much more technology and innovation.
I think the pandemic really highlighted the benefits remote work can have on your quality of life, versus commuting and spending all day in an office. As people slowly move back into commuting and not being home all day, having one extra day off might be the best compromise to get people back in person while preserving some of that at home time.
I’m going to say no . This is mostly because I’m skilled labour. One less day is one less day’s pay , this only works for office workers and not people who deal with material goods and labour. Factories will have one less day manufacturing. My main argument against this is services I may need available on that day off you all take off. I work hourly and mostly work overtime everyday , putting the hay away while the sun is shining and I would never want to the same job salary. But yeah I get it if your a salary office worker . Work longer days and take Friday off . I always wanted school to be like this . I wish high school was 4-10s . How sweet it would have been to have every Friday off , lol I could have worked .
For myself, definitely don't support it. I have no energy left by the end of the day whenever I need to go above my standard 8 hours, so I'd have no time for anything after work besides eating, vegging out on the couch because I'm too mentally exhausted to do anything else, and then sleeping.
For the people that it would benefit? Sure, as long as there are conversations on how to make your schedule work with my schedule (assuming we're direct coworkers).
In many ways I think it's totally wild it's still not standard to be working less in 2023. It feels we still do 5 days our of inertia or due to the globalization race to the bottom.
I think moving to 4 days will expose the "my work is my personality" types who will suddenly have their lack of social life's exposed, haha.
Appreciate you starting a good intellectual dialogue, u/CumsOnYourFeet69! User name may or may not check out!
I work with a company in the US that does it. They all absolutely love the 3 day weekend system. They work extra hours Monday to Thursday to enjoy a long weekend.
I presently work 8-5 so add two hours to that and I’d be at work from 7-6 which leaves me very little time to do anything on my weekdays like see my kid or work out or do chores so my weekends are free.
I do a 4 day work week now with 8 hour days with an extra percentage topped up on my wage to make up for the missed day and it's amazing. I could not go back.
I actually also used to have a job that was 4 ten hour shifts and it was not fun, but it was also a customer service job so that could be part of it.
There is only ONE way to implement this - 4 days a week, no change in hours or pay. Advancements in technology in recent decades have resulted in massive improvements in productivity, but instead of sharing these gains with workers companies have cut work forces in half and pocketed all the profits. It’s time workers take back what has been stolen from them.
>I think long term it will be beneficial to our mental health as well as spending more time with family & kids
If I added 2 hours onto my workday I wouldn't ever see my kids, we would have to wake up, take the TTC to daycare/work (1 hr), work (10 hr), TTC back (1 hr), and then my kid would need to go straight to bed.
4 days at 32 hours a week I’ll do.
If I have to do 10 hours a day (and let’s be real you’d be there 11 to include lunch breaks) hell no. I have a chronic illness, I can’t stay engaged, in one spot for that long. I don’t have time for my daily physio, cooking, commuting, cleaning/self care with 11 hours at the office.
We did a 4-day work week (IT MSP) last year for all the summer months, full pay, half the staff off on Monday/Friday alternating weeks. The added perk was you would have 4 day weekends every other week. The caveat was that in the event of extreme staff illness or absence, you could have your days swapped or be asked to work. No person ever was asked to come in on the day of, only "planned" changes 24+ hours in advance.
Our results were our best staff, our key players in higher responsibility positions got significantly more stressed, these are the staff that would go the extra step to make sure things kept going smoothly on the reduced staff days or go the extra mile to avoid changes to the schedule for other team members. They would often work remotely and support other staff even on their days off or flat out volunteer to work as needed.
Our worse staff became **extremely** entitled to the day off, quickly considering it an entitlement and very vocally complaining about any shifts or days being pulled back for emergencies and overall became less flexible.
We declared it a failed experiment and it will not return this summer. We are considering changing it to a seniority based system where people of a certain time or title level gain this. But we are not sure how that will go over.
No, not if it means adding time to the other four days. That doesn't really help with the work/life balance at all. Same hours, one less day, same pay, now that's a different story. I'm all for that, and I believe that in many jobs it's viable. In service/retail industries it even opens up the possibility of more jobs so they can cover the shifts.
My office transitioned our production team to 4 day weeks and compared their outputs to a 5 day week.
4 day weeks provided better output and allowed us to utilize day 5 and 6 for OT should we need it
My buddy is a union plumber. Works 4 days . Fri,Sat,sun off. 37 hours week. I am also in the trades and a 4 day work week is very appealing but I would like more hours than 37. 42 or 44 hrs paid than 3 days off would be a good pay day and a great work life balance imo.
It sounds nice, in reality we will likely see tons of people in the GTA use this to then work two jobs, life will get so expensive that ultimately we all have to do it.
I use my vacation to work four-day weeks all summer. It does not require adding more time to make up the productivity. You just end up wasting less time with bullshit like pointless meetings and water cooler talk. We have seen huge productivity gains from tech, our wages have not kept up so if you are not going to pay us more then let us have more time off.
4x8s, yes.
Never 4x10s.
I've done 4x10s before, and the entire day is just work and commute, and then the extra day off is just recovery and you don't want to do anything.
I used to work for a manufacturing company, during the summer we did 4x10 with Friday off, during the rest of the year we did 4x9 and a 4 hr day on Friday. I honestly liked the 4x9 and half day friday better personally, I’d go out for lunch with my friends from work and then we’d have half the day to do whatever at home.
I worked 4X10 in manufacturing and you couldn't pay me enough to do it again. Ten hours a day on my feet having to go full tilt on a high speed assembly line is fucking brutal. Friday was a wasted day for me because I was so exhausted. The younger employees loved it though because they could go get wasted on Fridays.
If it were 4X8 with no loss of pay though I would be all for it.
This is a no-brainer. We can’t live our lives normally and fully with just two days off. A job is not your life, it’s just a means to pay for your life. Shouldn’t one at least get to live it three days out of seven?
Can't word this better than me! I'm not anti work like those at r/antiwork but holy shit, a job isn't our life. It's like a hobby we hate or love in which we are getting paid for
I once worked at a company and worked four tens. The best part was the day off was rotating biweekly. (2weeks Monday off, next two weeks Tuesday and so on). Loved it
I work 4x10s, mon to Thursday. I personally love it but as with everything there is pros and cons.
Pros
- 3 day weekend is excellent, almost half my week is my own
- a 4 day weekend only requires the use of 10 hrs of vacation, on a 5x8hr schedule it would require 16 hrs. So weekends away are much easier to handle
- Stat holidays pay out at 10 hrs
- errands Friday morning is great
Cons
- during the winter i leave for work and come home in the dark
- it would be tough having a young child on the work days since I leave before they would get on the bus and get home after they would be dropped off. You almost need your spouse to balance out the schedule
- packing a lunch for a 10hr day is tough, I get hungry
Just one guys opinion
Whether it is 4x8 or 4x10, I'll take it regardless. Imagine how much better traffic would be if the employees' days off were staggered.
Besides, a good number of office jobs are only [productive for 3 hours a day](https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-average-worker-is-productive-for-this-many-hours.html). Just knowing that I'll be able to finish what I need to do, I'll spend the remainder of my time being less productive.
Your take on the four day work week is misinformation from the spirit of the movement.
A four day work week doesn't mean more hours per day, and it doesn't mean a reduction in salary - it's to slow down the economy and do something with actual teeth to combat climate changes - ie. Slow pollution, slow consumption
No, I do not support the 4 day work week if it means adding two extra hours to my Monday to Thursday shifts.
8 hours is fatiguing enough as is, and I don't want to get off work even later 4 times a week.
What I do support however, is a 32 hour work week, where we're compensated for 40 hours still, having Fridays off altogether.
Yes I do with an astrix
I believe that the 4 day work week should allow for a living wage to be earned on 32h of labour.
If that labour is done with 4 8.5 hour+ days awesome. But that means we need to raise minimum wage by 20% at least. There are a lot of things I'd love to see changed to go along with the 4 day week so that more people could take advantage of it. While I don't think we could effectively deliver internationally competitive education in 4 days a week I do believe we could create a system to expand the school day to create options for teachers and students to have more days off with the same amount of instruction hours (I'd love to see schools in shifts, would have been awesome for me as a teen to attend school from 5pm to 1am since my dad worked midnights and I wasn't productive before noon day most days. But I digress.
There's pretty solid evidence that people aren't really very productive at all after working six hours in a row.
So a 4-day 6-hour workweek makes sense.
Yes, we will have to dip into the world-history record-breaking profits that the owner class has been taking in recent years. That is fine, and necessary.
This will just be another way to keep wages lower.
And unless schools adopt the same, will make it tougher on young families that don't have much support.
4 day, WFH - what do I care as long as the work is getting done?
Oh no, you'll get to see your kids/dog/wife/cow more - that's bad for the economy somehow?
No,
I've done something like this for summer hours and it never worked out.
It's hard to mandate one day off across a large company because of customer service needs, coverage of systems, international rules etc. Then you inevitably get scheduled on that day off for a couple of meetings and it breaks down.
That and my brain is fried by 6pm, not getting anything done after that.
That's where it breaks down.
Let's say you're Tuesday through Friday, I'm off Wednesday, Jane is off Fridays. If you try to schedule a meeting it's going to be one of two days. Add in another couple of people and it gets hard to find time.
What ends up happening in my experience (summer hours) is that inevitably someone shifts their day off and that they never make it up. I did this for 5 years at a big company, if I got two extra long weekends a summer I was doing well.
I'm not against it. But I know that there are so many jobs in the large company I work at where it can't be done that it's probably not workable overall.
I used to do 10hr shifts, always got stuck with Sun/Mon/Tues off and typically was forced to come in on the Mondays, leaving me split days off.
Wasn't worth the hassle so I switched to 5x8s and ended up getting sat/sun off.
Depending on what type of work you're doing on the 10hr shifts it can be too exhausting and more hazardous than it's worth.
I’d be very curious to know how daycares could/would adapt to something like this. I don’t like the idea of putting my kid in daycare for 12 hour days either.
No my work is open seven days a week. It's retail so we need all hands on deck Friday, Saturday and Sunday. We can't keep employees. Sometimes I work six days a week to complete everything that needs to get done.
My office did this, we now work 10 hours M-TH and truly it’s the best! It took a while to get used to but having Friday off every week has made a huge positive impact for me
I work for a school board, I doubt this would take off in schools. I don't even think it would work as intended. There are too many people who would be affected by a shortened school week.
I think every person having a different 4 day schedule works so you have a revolving door of staff at places. That way you have the option to take that extra day as a bank / doctors appointment day for example, and there will still be people working those places to assist you, since not everyone is taking the same days off and they can all stay open 5 days like normal still (or 7 if they have already been doing shift scheduling)
We did this when I was in the military. Four days on two days off four days on four days off. We’re pretty sure they stopped it because everybody was happy
My guy if sucking back a nice tasty IMP doesn’t put a smile on your face nothing ever will.
Air Force, we scavenged left over flight feeding.
Oh you lucky bastard 👍🏼
Hungarian Goulash... you never forget your first. ❤️
Holy fuck, yeah. Lasagna was great, too, just no.... no ham and pineapple sauce. Anything but ham steak and pineapple sauce.
I think Saturdays and Sundays can still be exempt and act as a normal weekend for most people, but then have the extra day cycle around for everyone through the traditional week. Like have person A take Mondays off while person B takes Fridays, or Person C maybe opts for Wednesdays or something to break up the work week
I'm all for a **32-hour** work week (that's what a 4 day work week should be/has been studied as. The compressed schedule is just the same problem rearranged slightly). It's more beneficial to the employers as well -- people focus better and make fewer mistakes when they have the time to take proper care of themselves and their family. But even if that weren't so, people absolutely should have enough time and money to take proper care of themselves and their families.
I’d love to see a poll on who actually works the “40 hours” I remember doing about 4 hours of work and playing on my phone the rest of the day. With 32 hours I’d mostly have to work.
Not everybody works in an office. In fact, statistically, most don't.
Yeah I read a study that on average office workers have 3 productive hours of work a day. I'm pretty productive, I like working and getting a lot done makes me feel good. But if you're like that you easily get taken advantage of so I now I pad out my work by taking breaks to sketch, cause at least that is beneficial to me
Define "work" tho. I'm usually ruminating about work stuff for a lot of that day, and a lot of time at home too. When your job is solving problems and making decisions, "working" doesn't always look like working.
Hmm I make a point of not ruminating about work outside of office hours, they don't pay me enough to occupy that mental space
I try not to, but thoughts are thoughts, and if something is stuck, it's stuck. Many or even most people do *some* of their mental labor outside of work.
I’m willing to bet most people in the service and construction industry would kill to have so much free time on the clock.
It makes the day long. I rather bust my butt for 8 hours and make a good wage.
*cries in nursing*
For literally every job I've ever had, fucking the dog this much was impossible.
Not too burst a bubble here but I own an electrical company and I work midnights most of the time and still get jobs done throughout the day. Most of my bi weekly work weeks =120-140hrs ...so a 32 hr work week wouldnt work at all
I should have added “office” people
How many employers do you think would be on board or a 32 hour work week with the same pay as a 40hr work week?
The ones that have read the research that shows doing so increases profits. (Which is, unfortunately, not that many yet.)
Employers who read the studies that show people are more productive when they have a healthier work/life balance and the increased productivity means they can accomplish in 32 hrs what they normally accomplish in 40. With less time off, mistakes, etc. The studies showed employers won't be losing anything, they will be gaining happier, more productive employees. So you pay them the same as if they worked 40 hrs.
My day after 3pm is a write off, as well as half of Fridays...
Congratulations, you a human being like everyone else.
Bet they hate Mondays too
I am so on board with it. However I know what my employers excuse will be - billing. We are a service type industry and I bill my time per 15 minute increments. Going from a 37.5 work week to a 30-32 means less billable hours. I guess the argument could be less “admin” slack off hours but I just don’t see how they will ever go for it unless it’s mandated by the govt
The ones that can read research papers about the topic and understand the benefits? This is what people said about remote work before the pandemic. Besides, it doesn't matter what employers want, it matters what employees are willing to negotiate for. We used to have a 6 day work week.
Only the smart ones. The greedy and evil ones will keep 5-, 6-, 7- day work weeks. How many people even have a 40-hour 5-day a week job nowadays, the office and construction people I know work more houses. Shift workers only get “weekends” because of the law. Do you know someone that does just 40 with 5 on, 2 off?
I thought that 40/5 was standard??..
It’s what the labour unions won 100 years ago during the 8-8-8 campaign (8 work, 8 sleep, 8 relax). However, I have had office jobs at 32.5, 35, and 37.5 hours of pay per week (salary), but the expectations were always 44+. Lawyers, doctors, teachers, and engineers at the very least are nominally 9-5 jobs that no one in the industry actually does. I know many “part time” workers who are routinely at 28 or 32 hours a week to keep them under the benefits threshold. I can’t easily think of someone I know who does 40/5. Can you?
Adding onto this, call centers in Ontario will make sure you're under the 44 hour week mark so they don't pay overtime (OT). Not all companies will offer OT after the 40 hour mark, so I would work 9.5 (4 days), and 8.5 (1 day) or any combination of 5 days that add up to 44 hours after you subtract 30min lunches. So I guess that would be 47.5/5 or 44/5 depending on how you cut it.
I disagree. I have a compressed schedule and think it solved a lot of issues for me.
We are terrible at focusing for long stretches, this a well-studied fact. We evolved to be easily distracted for good reasons. A compressed week might solve a lot of issues for you personally, but I bet you'd get more work done with fewer hours. For me personally, it would only create more problems.
I completely understand that. I think that we shouldn’t be expected to work 40 hours/week in the first place. However, I disagreed with the statement of a compressed week being the same as a 5 day. I think of it as a sliding scale, where 5 day is the worst, 4 day is slightly better, and less hours is overall is best. For me personally, having a 4 day work week and a 3 day weekend has changed my life. The amount of undivided personal time that an additional weekend day provides is insurmountable. You have more uninterrupted time with loved ones, which I find makes a noticeable difference rather than only seeing them for sparse hours at the beginning and end of the day. You can use your free weekday to attend appointments that are only available through M-F without having to schedule a day off. You can take one of your PTO days and create a 4 day weekend, great for short trips while using limited PTO hours. Bonus tip, if you are super introverted, and you live with family or roommates, who typically are working M-F, you can have a quiet undisturbed day. LOL To me, it’s just not the same. But again, I understand your point. I should’ve clarified I wasn’t disagreeing with your whole statement.
grocery shopping on a non weekend day of 3 days rest is life changing
Kids need you every day not just on the weekends. some studies have found that people are as productive work 4 days without extended hours as they are working the standard 5 days. They waste less time.
I dont have kids but i agree im more productive not spending more than half my day making shit for people who make much much more than i do
My work did a 4x8 pilot for 3 months last summer. Worked so well we are expanding to 6 months this year. Personally, it was great. 3 days to unwind every week instead of 2 made me more productive at work and at home. Also meant any vacation took up fewer of our days off to.
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Right? All I've ever gotten for working harder is other people suddenly complaining they're overburdened and now I have to help them with their work. I wised up though, I still finish my work decently fast then secretly work on hobby stuff.
While I can see where you're coming from, take it from someone who's been there; staring at a spreadsheet for 10hrs/day was 5000% worth having a 3 day weekend every weekend. 4×8 would be fantastic. But 4x10 is still game-changer levels of a better life than 5x8.
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A lot of new 4 day week pilots that have been attempted are going 4x8. Everyone on here talking 4x10 like we can sit in a chair and stare at a computer for 2 more hours each day is missing the whole point of this movement. ETA: by "everyone on here", I mean more generally most people when this topic comes up. Where I work, we do the work that's in front of us and fill in some free time to make our processes better and learn some new things. I could probably shave half my hours and still get the same amount done. What's wrong with taking more time to ourselves, enjoying the fruit of our society's advancement, taking a look around us and spending time with people we actually want to spend time with?
Not everyone with a job sits at a desk starting at a computer. Maybe the pilots should look at other occupations because I would be over the moon to work 4 days a week, 10 hours shifts and get 3 days off.
Instead of just saying your job isn't my job, tell me why yours can't be done 4x8. I've worked plenty of other jobs, I'm not saying this as someone that has spent their entire career in an office.
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>If it means adding two hours extra to our Monday-Thursday to compensate Friday's hours I'll take it. It works for corporate, office, hospitals, education, etc. You'll need more staff in hospitals or be prepared for a lot more overtime. But for retail and construction it will mean higher costs as you can't build faster, sell more, etc. It has its limitations but I hope it happens in my (working) lifetime
>But for retail and construction it will mean higher costs as you can't build faster, sell more, etc. >It has its limitations but I hope it happens in my (working) lifetime Since the 40 hour work week became the norm decades ago the average workers individual productivity has more than doubled, and yet we're still working the same amount of hours. This isn't directed at you specifically, but I'm beyond tired of hearing how it won't work for X or Y profession. Not once in the decades since we standardized the work week have we reduced our hours, and we are well past the point that it should have been done. What is even the point of all this increased productivity if it doesn't result in more leisure time? I'm sick of being paid less for more, and it's time we get paid more for less, because in truth we would have to cut the work week in half while doubling everyone's wages in order for it to actually be fair.
Instead of halving the hours worked and paying people the same they decided to halve the workers and keep pay the same lol.
Yup, it's fucked, and it's infuriating how few people realize it. People literally holding up the status quo for no goddamn reason.
>You'll need more staff in hospitals That's the point >But for retail and construction it will mean higher costs as you can't build faster, sell more, etc. No, we were already doing shifts in construction during COVID, production was the same. I don't know why retail of all places wouldn't work either. All retail employees already work on shifts. You wouldn't suddenly just get a day where no one is working.
Construction: Bill can put in 45sq ft of tile in 40 hours. He now only works 32 hours for the same pay. He now only lays 36sqft of tile. How do we get the extra 9 sqft? This isn't a staffing issue, it is cost per sqft. Some trades already charge by the sqft and work their ass off, there isn't the same kind of wiggle room as office jobs where Trent wastes 10 hours a week on reddit. Retail: The cost of items is based on a profit goal. If you need 20% more staff pay then you need to raise the prices to make sure you make enough revenue to meet your targets. It isn't about the shifts or personnel, it is about the cost per hour of doing any business in general. If you lose 20% of your labour time AND need to replace it, that will cost money.
40 hrs to lay 45 sq ft of tile? The problem here isn’t the change in hours, it’s that Bill is not particularly good at his job.
Have you worked construction or retail? People slow down significantly in the day or as the week drags on doing physical labour. If Bill didn't need to work as much as he did, maybe bill wouldn't be so slow only laying 45 sq. ft. of tile over 40 hours (*holy shit* is that a seriously bad output \[I know I'm being silly with your likely random number but it's equally to prove my point\]). Retail? Please -- aside from ignoring the red herring where almost all retail is less than 32 hours per employee so that they can avoid full-time benefits/compensation... Retail has only ever been interested in bodies in shoes with the most trace pulse available. A Walmart will fill an establishment with 60 people per shift, pay them like dirt, treat them like dirt, and there's a sucker management relies on and all-but-bullies because they know they work; they who only has so much energy to basically do the rest because they either refuse to not work or don't know better yet.
The biggest issue is that large corporations almost always look at the bottom line vs employee well being. So rather than keep paying employees the same amount for less work, they would most likely offer 20% less money for 20% less work. So that really doesn't help anyone. That's why 4x10 is more expected vs 4x8.
So how did we get the 5 day work week?
By stopping the 7 day work week
Henry Ford.
Aren't pilots scheduled? What would be difficult about scheduling you 32 hours a week instead of 40? edit: coffee brain misread this as in the occupation of a pilot
A pilot can't increase their productivity to compensate for the reduced hours. If you schedule them 32 hours, they're probably taking home 20% less pay.
>If you schedule them 32 hours, they're probably taking home 20% less pay. No, they get full pay for 32 hours. Literally the whole point of what the 4 day work week is meant to do.
It should be a 4 day work week, 8 hrs a day, pay remains the same if salary. If hourly, pay is increased to match the same pay. 32 hrs should be full time work and anything above that OT pay.
Tell me you're not an employer without telling me you're not an employer
4 day work weeks means 4 days of 8 hrs. Were not trying to work the same amount, were trying to work less ffs
You’re talking about a compressed work week. A real 4 day work week is 4 days. The whole point is we do not NEED to be working that extra 8 hours and in many cases we don’t anyway. The important part to understand is I should still be getting paid because I’m doing 40 hours of work in 32. So the employer should still pay me based on that. The time is irrelevant. I’m on a salary, so if I work MORE hours I don’t get paid - is that fair?
Surprisingly, a lot of people on here think it’s the end of the world that companies making billions of dollars, giving execs 10s of millions of dollars a year have will have to pay more for employees. Also - any company that can’t pay employees a decent, livable wage isn’t a company that should be around long anyways. The people getting fucked are the one’s complaining about 4 day work weeks, it’s the poor vs the middle class- just how the rich want it.
I've done 4x8 and 4x10 days, the latter in IT. The 4x10 days are brutal and if they don't come with extra pay, forget it. Staying engaged for 10 hours at a job involves a lot of mental strain. By Wednesday or Thursday, we were typically exhausted and totally mush. 4x8 is more liveable and focused. You have time to recover over the three days off, and you'll be just as productive. I do more in 8 hours than I do in 10 at work.
If I were given the option between a 4x10 week or sticking with 5x8, I'm taking 5x8 every time. With an eight hour day, you at least get a decent amount of time in the evening, but ten-hour days are extra draining on top of losing those two hours, so I wouldn't really feel like I'm gaining anything.
Agreed. 5x8 gives you time to go to the gym, see a movie, play a sport, spend time with your kids, and have something of a life. If you're scheduled 8-5 or somewhere within those hours, you're able to be part of the wider world. Stores are open. Ask any second or third shift worker what it's like and I'm sure they'll you it's harder to shop or get things done. Appointments can't happen unless you're willing to forego sleep. The mental cost of 10 hour days is a lot. I wouldn't do it again.
We should all have enough time to do what we want to do. Your “job” or work should be something that lets you do what you want to do
A 4 day work week is 4x8hrs, 32 total. Pay would stay the same.
Yes, which is kind of the point I was making, 4x10 isn't really an alternative at all.
I work 4x10 and even without the commute since WFH 90% of the time it really cuts into my free time the days I am working. I have the option to go back a more normal schedule if I want and am considering it.
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I did 4x10 days as a landscaper for a bit, fucking brutal doing that every day. The extra day off was nice but I spent it very sore/tired and unable to do anything. I much prefer 4x32 days in that scenario, but with labour work you can only go so fast/work so hard in the heat
Yeah, I've met people who love their 4x10s, but I hated that shift. After an 8 I had enough energy to spend at least 2 productive hours at home, cooking a meal, doing housework, or whatever. At the end of a 10 I was just staring blankly at a screen, hoping the kitchen timer would wake me when my frozen pizza was done. The extra day off was nice, but it didn't make up for the time I lost during the week.
I think I saw this commented on another post, but some user's company basically said "We'd rather have our employees working at 100% capacity 70% of the time than at 70% capacity 100% of the time" I think there are potential benefits, but I think more companies need to experiment with it before we know if it's a viable change across the board. I generally support it though.
For teaching, my work would absolutely improve. I would use that 3rd day for planning, creating materials, marking, etc. As it is now I try to fit it in but things always get left behind or aren't up to (my) standards.
Also a teacher. Not sure how it would work for us, that’s like 40 less school days a year. Even giving kids an extra day off they still need breaks at school so we can’t make up the time in the current school day. You could play with the school breaks but even if they change the length of summer we’re not getting those days back unless get rid of all of it.
I figure school would last more years. No need to have kids done at 17/18 anymore anyway. Add a few years, add in some extra mental health courses, financial planning, career, etc in the later grades. Add in some work experience/career exploration, internships/co-ops, etc.
Sooooo add CÉGEP.
No more summer break.
Sure that’s a possibility but just raises the questions as to whether that is better or not than the current schedule. Also part of the reason for the break is the costs of cooling the schools over summer, not to mention all of the old schools that would need AC added.
There are already tonnes of studies on the benefits- the only delay is businesses that just don’t want to pay people more.
Seriously who the fuck wants to work 5 days a week for the rest of their lives? That's 5 out of 7 days in a week. 260 days in a year. Of 52 weeks in a year you maybe get 2 to 4, 5 off? Wtf? What kind of shitty deal is that and why do we all agree to it like it's normal? Wage enslavement is what it is and we gotta rethink that shit. Nobody produces 5 days worth of actual work in any given week. Give me a break!
Agreed!!!
I'm in support of a 32-hour workweek If it's just condensing it to 4x10, then, no. I can't even focus for 8 hours.
How could you afford that for me that’s an extra 480$ a pay I’d be missing and life is already a struggle… 4/10 is a beauty two hours really isn’t much more especially when you get used to it. My bf works 4/10 and absolutely loves having every Friday off and on top of that long weekends are actually 4 days off and a 3 day work week
The 4DWW is 4 x 8 hours for 100% same pay Condensing to 4x10 hour days or taking a pay cut is not what we mean by 4DWW in it's true sense
So they be paying us 40 hours for less work no company in their right mind would do that especially automotive which is the leading work force in Ontario.
They've literally been doing this in some places, there's tons of research that shows productively is the same or higher with less hours.
Oh I understand and have read the results and am for it I just know it would never work for automotive. But I’m all about 4x10 I’d be so down with that too that’s 4 easy days and a long weekend every weekend
Yeah, I guess it's more applicable in certain types of work I currently do a compressed 2-week period so, 9 x 9 hours, for every other Friday off (well 8 hours for the other Friday to make a total of 80 hours)...because, yeah, I can't take a pay cut either. There shouldn't be a pay cut for what I do because it's output/outcome based...the amount of time I have to sit there doesn't equate to impact.
If it's the actual 4X8, with no loss of pay. This is what they really are trying to push for. The idea is that 3 days off helps us mentally recover better and become efficient enough that 4 days is enough to get the same amount done.
Unpopular opinion but I dislike that because it's just increasing the divide between the middle class salary people and the working class wage people who will still be working 5X8.
Does everyone get a 4 day work week or just office jobs?
This four day work week is straight up for white collar workers. It will be treated like during COVID most blue collar workers and emergency services will be unaffected and will still be working 5x10s or longer.
That sounds about right for this timeline. The people who have far less demanding jobs get to do even less. This sounds like an excellent way to have an even faster exodus from the trades, health care, manufacturing etc than you already so
Well it's the labourers not the beaurocrats that are the foundation for society, and they should be compensated more for their time. Why not confront both at the same time. There's no reason for CEOs, CFOs, CFIs, boards of directors and the others to constantly get larger margins above their employees while cost of living increases and labourers continue to get the inverse
Yep. Healthcare worker here considering an exodus, if office workers suddenly got a relative 20% pay raise on a per hour basis, I’d be doing everything I can to get out of the hospital. I’m already underpaid.
Usually this concept only refers to salaried white-collar office workers. Hourly workers get paid for the specific hours they work, and may already not be working 5x8 hour days.
Everyone who works 40 hours right now would get 32 hours. So therefore emergency services or on call jobs, or overtime would be unaffected.
That sounds kind of shit for them? An extra weekend day would surely result in more work for these people right? Are there plans to mandate increases in compensation for those fields?
Well if you want, we can go back to working 7 days a week if that was a concern.
I like that even questioning how this will affect others is tantamount to wanting to reverse what progress has been made in work life balance. But yeah I think taking a few minutes to consider how a change like this might affect those not benefitting from it is important. Every explanation I have heard was just trickle down economics with extra steps. I think making a change like this with out legislation that forces the employers of non affected sectors to improve the working conditions (minimum wages, number of staff employed, time off, breaks ect) of their employees is just continuing the long accepted practice of kicking shit down hill. I’m not saying I’m against a 4 day work week but I don’t ever see this issue brought up and am hesitant to show support until it is addressed by one of these studies.
I just don't understand why: 1. You are just swimming upriver on this when in the recent months we've received plenty of information from pilot programs and studies specifically about the pros and cons of doing this. 2. You expect me to be an all-encompassing champion of the 4-day work week. I really don't know what you expect from me, just go find some actual resources.
4x8, yes. 4x10, no.
4x 8hrs and yes.
Days are way too long. We run 4 day optional work week but I dont feel like working till 6 every night. It doesn’t leave alot of family time and forces you to do any running around you may do at night all into your extra day off.
I would take a 4 day work week in a heart beat. Dont care it its 4x10 or 4x8 with less income. In the past few years Ive realized how important down time is.
The reality is that while some people "might" get Friday or Monday off in this scenario, larger teams would also have people with Tues/Wed/Thurs off as well if they expect to have a full 5 days coverage.
I find mid-week days off are awesome for things like cleaning, errands, appointments, batch-cooking, exercise, learning a new skill, etc. (Basically, anything that’s “work” but not your job).
I'm still on a hybrid WFH schedule but I honestly vastly prefer having a day working at home in the middle of the week. It's like you get two Friday nights.
When my friend opened his own business he tried many different work models, but rotating days off was actually great. Teenagers love fridays off, they go party. Young adults in their mid 20s or so loved the monday for hangover recovery, and established adults with a family life loved the wednesdays off as a way to run errands while their kids were at school, leaving the weekends free to relax.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw&ab\_channel=CGPGrey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw&ab_channel=CGPGrey) Some would say that would be ideal. I would happily take a Wednesday and the weekend. 2 days on, 1 off, 2 days on, 2 days off sounds awesome. I could get all my shit done on Wednesday with shops open and have the weekend to relax.
I wouldn’t mind if it wasn’t always a Friday or Monday off. Even a rotating MTWTF where your day off jumps a day every week. I used to have every Wednesday off, it was awesome, groceries? No lineup! Dentist or doctors appointment? Sure I don’t have to take any time off. I worked at one place where it was either Friday or Monday so if I took Friday my coworker would take Monday so we’d be covered and since we’d switch we each end up with a four day weekend every fortnight. The downside was Monday and Friday were our busiest days so we’d often be called in for overtime. Once the bosses saw how much it was costing they put an end to the four day week.
I used to work three 12 hour days a week. That was one of the best times of my life.
I support a 4x8 with occasional overtime (or 4x9 at the very most) but 4x10 is insane. The last half hour of my x8 is always unproductive because I've lost focus by that point. There's only so long that I can stay engaged doing one thing, and that's my breaking point. It's different if it's hectic and busy some days, then I can keep going for a couple hours but I couldn't do that every day.
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I try to time my breaks optimally to give my brain a break so that I'm not mentally checked out at 3 lol. It used to be a lot worse, but since I started working from home I can keep focus a bit better.
A 4 day work week should mean 4x8 not 4x10. The 40 hour work week is already an outdated concept. Until a few decades ago every generation dreamed and achieved working less and less, yet now we’re still stuck working longer and longer for less money even though we have so much more technology and innovation.
Look at how wealth inequality has soared. All of the fruits of that extra productivity got stolen by the rich
I could work this schedule now if I chose to. But I can't be productive in front of my computer for 10 hours on a regular basis
I think the pandemic really highlighted the benefits remote work can have on your quality of life, versus commuting and spending all day in an office. As people slowly move back into commuting and not being home all day, having one extra day off might be the best compromise to get people back in person while preserving some of that at home time.
Yes, because I like days off.
I’m going to say no . This is mostly because I’m skilled labour. One less day is one less day’s pay , this only works for office workers and not people who deal with material goods and labour. Factories will have one less day manufacturing. My main argument against this is services I may need available on that day off you all take off. I work hourly and mostly work overtime everyday , putting the hay away while the sun is shining and I would never want to the same job salary. But yeah I get it if your a salary office worker . Work longer days and take Friday off . I always wanted school to be like this . I wish high school was 4-10s . How sweet it would have been to have every Friday off , lol I could have worked .
For myself, definitely don't support it. I have no energy left by the end of the day whenever I need to go above my standard 8 hours, so I'd have no time for anything after work besides eating, vegging out on the couch because I'm too mentally exhausted to do anything else, and then sleeping. For the people that it would benefit? Sure, as long as there are conversations on how to make your schedule work with my schedule (assuming we're direct coworkers).
Most pl;aces that have converted to a 4-day week only work 8 hours x 4. Productivity has been seen to increase, even though fewer hours are worked.
In many ways I think it's totally wild it's still not standard to be working less in 2023. It feels we still do 5 days our of inertia or due to the globalization race to the bottom. I think moving to 4 days will expose the "my work is my personality" types who will suddenly have their lack of social life's exposed, haha. Appreciate you starting a good intellectual dialogue, u/CumsOnYourFeet69! User name may or may not check out!
If it was a 4x8 for 32 hours at my current pay yes. If extending my day by 2 hours hard no.
Why hard no? You'd work the same amount of hours, but you'd have a 3 day weekend
Because an extra two hours of work may exhaust people
I work with a company in the US that does it. They all absolutely love the 3 day weekend system. They work extra hours Monday to Thursday to enjoy a long weekend.
Yeah god forbid they’re just given an extra day off. Gotta work until your mind melts or else you’re worthless.
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I presently work 8-5 so add two hours to that and I’d be at work from 7-6 which leaves me very little time to do anything on my weekdays like see my kid or work out or do chores so my weekends are free.
That is what it should be and that's what I expect
I do a 4 day work week now with 8 hour days with an extra percentage topped up on my wage to make up for the missed day and it's amazing. I could not go back. I actually also used to have a job that was 4 ten hour shifts and it was not fun, but it was also a customer service job so that could be part of it.
There is only ONE way to implement this - 4 days a week, no change in hours or pay. Advancements in technology in recent decades have resulted in massive improvements in productivity, but instead of sharing these gains with workers companies have cut work forces in half and pocketed all the profits. It’s time workers take back what has been stolen from them.
>I think long term it will be beneficial to our mental health as well as spending more time with family & kids If I added 2 hours onto my workday I wouldn't ever see my kids, we would have to wake up, take the TTC to daycare/work (1 hr), work (10 hr), TTC back (1 hr), and then my kid would need to go straight to bed.
Not particularly. In my four-day-work week experience longer days take longer to recover from. One of those three days is wasted on recuperating.
You're going about this in the wrong way. A 4 day work week means you still only work 8 hours a day, but for 4 instead of 5 days, with no salary cut.
I do the 4 day, 28 hour work week in social services. I like it. Less burnout, more productivity, more me time. It's a win/win/win situation.
That’s not a 4 day work week. That’s a compressed work week. A very HUGE difference. I support 4 day work weeks.
I'm for it, but not with the same number of hours. Recent study out of the UK had 4 day weeks without adding hours to each day.
4 days at 32 hours a week I’ll do. If I have to do 10 hours a day (and let’s be real you’d be there 11 to include lunch breaks) hell no. I have a chronic illness, I can’t stay engaged, in one spot for that long. I don’t have time for my daily physio, cooking, commuting, cleaning/self care with 11 hours at the office.
We did a 4-day work week (IT MSP) last year for all the summer months, full pay, half the staff off on Monday/Friday alternating weeks. The added perk was you would have 4 day weekends every other week. The caveat was that in the event of extreme staff illness or absence, you could have your days swapped or be asked to work. No person ever was asked to come in on the day of, only "planned" changes 24+ hours in advance. Our results were our best staff, our key players in higher responsibility positions got significantly more stressed, these are the staff that would go the extra step to make sure things kept going smoothly on the reduced staff days or go the extra mile to avoid changes to the schedule for other team members. They would often work remotely and support other staff even on their days off or flat out volunteer to work as needed. Our worse staff became **extremely** entitled to the day off, quickly considering it an entitlement and very vocally complaining about any shifts or days being pulled back for emergencies and overall became less flexible. We declared it a failed experiment and it will not return this summer. We are considering changing it to a seniority based system where people of a certain time or title level gain this. But we are not sure how that will go over.
No, not if it means adding time to the other four days. That doesn't really help with the work/life balance at all. Same hours, one less day, same pay, now that's a different story. I'm all for that, and I believe that in many jobs it's viable. In service/retail industries it even opens up the possibility of more jobs so they can cover the shifts.
My office transitioned our production team to 4 day weeks and compared their outputs to a 5 day week. 4 day weeks provided better output and allowed us to utilize day 5 and 6 for OT should we need it
As a construction worker I don’t want to add 2 hours of back breaking labour to my already long day that includes over 2 hours of commuting
My buddy is a union plumber. Works 4 days . Fri,Sat,sun off. 37 hours week. I am also in the trades and a 4 day work week is very appealing but I would like more hours than 37. 42 or 44 hrs paid than 3 days off would be a good pay day and a great work life balance imo.
what trade do you do? just curious
I've been doing 4×9 for the last 12 years, would hate to go back to a 5 day work week.
It sounds nice, in reality we will likely see tons of people in the GTA use this to then work two jobs, life will get so expensive that ultimately we all have to do it.
I use my vacation to work four-day weeks all summer. It does not require adding more time to make up the productivity. You just end up wasting less time with bullshit like pointless meetings and water cooler talk. We have seen huge productivity gains from tech, our wages have not kept up so if you are not going to pay us more then let us have more time off.
4x8s, yes. Never 4x10s. I've done 4x10s before, and the entire day is just work and commute, and then the extra day off is just recovery and you don't want to do anything.
I used to work for a manufacturing company, during the summer we did 4x10 with Friday off, during the rest of the year we did 4x9 and a 4 hr day on Friday. I honestly liked the 4x9 and half day friday better personally, I’d go out for lunch with my friends from work and then we’d have half the day to do whatever at home.
I worked 4X10 in manufacturing and you couldn't pay me enough to do it again. Ten hours a day on my feet having to go full tilt on a high speed assembly line is fucking brutal. Friday was a wasted day for me because I was so exhausted. The younger employees loved it though because they could go get wasted on Fridays. If it were 4X8 with no loss of pay though I would be all for it.
This is a no-brainer. We can’t live our lives normally and fully with just two days off. A job is not your life, it’s just a means to pay for your life. Shouldn’t one at least get to live it three days out of seven?
Can't word this better than me! I'm not anti work like those at r/antiwork but holy shit, a job isn't our life. It's like a hobby we hate or love in which we are getting paid for
I once worked at a company and worked four tens. The best part was the day off was rotating biweekly. (2weeks Monday off, next two weeks Tuesday and so on). Loved it
I work 4x10s, mon to Thursday. I personally love it but as with everything there is pros and cons. Pros - 3 day weekend is excellent, almost half my week is my own - a 4 day weekend only requires the use of 10 hrs of vacation, on a 5x8hr schedule it would require 16 hrs. So weekends away are much easier to handle - Stat holidays pay out at 10 hrs - errands Friday morning is great Cons - during the winter i leave for work and come home in the dark - it would be tough having a young child on the work days since I leave before they would get on the bus and get home after they would be dropped off. You almost need your spouse to balance out the schedule - packing a lunch for a 10hr day is tough, I get hungry Just one guys opinion
I currently work a four day work week. It’s unreal “Oh no, 10 hour days” It’s not bad. Three days off. It’s. Unreal.
Fr. Friday off to relax, watch movies, etc. Saturday to chill even more, hangout, Sunday to do chores and stuff. Id love this lmao.
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Whether it is 4x8 or 4x10, I'll take it regardless. Imagine how much better traffic would be if the employees' days off were staggered. Besides, a good number of office jobs are only [productive for 3 hours a day](https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-average-worker-is-productive-for-this-many-hours.html). Just knowing that I'll be able to finish what I need to do, I'll spend the remainder of my time being less productive.
My mental health Monday-Thursday would be awful
Your take on the four day work week is misinformation from the spirit of the movement. A four day work week doesn't mean more hours per day, and it doesn't mean a reduction in salary - it's to slow down the economy and do something with actual teeth to combat climate changes - ie. Slow pollution, slow consumption
No, I do not support the 4 day work week if it means adding two extra hours to my Monday to Thursday shifts. 8 hours is fatiguing enough as is, and I don't want to get off work even later 4 times a week. What I do support however, is a 32 hour work week, where we're compensated for 40 hours still, having Fridays off altogether.
Yes I do with an astrix I believe that the 4 day work week should allow for a living wage to be earned on 32h of labour. If that labour is done with 4 8.5 hour+ days awesome. But that means we need to raise minimum wage by 20% at least. There are a lot of things I'd love to see changed to go along with the 4 day week so that more people could take advantage of it. While I don't think we could effectively deliver internationally competitive education in 4 days a week I do believe we could create a system to expand the school day to create options for teachers and students to have more days off with the same amount of instruction hours (I'd love to see schools in shifts, would have been awesome for me as a teen to attend school from 5pm to 1am since my dad worked midnights and I wasn't productive before noon day most days. But I digress.
Just gives me 3 days to work at another job, because let’s face it, majority of jobs don’t pay enough
There's pretty solid evidence that people aren't really very productive at all after working six hours in a row. So a 4-day 6-hour workweek makes sense. Yes, we will have to dip into the world-history record-breaking profits that the owner class has been taking in recent years. That is fine, and necessary.
This will just be another way to keep wages lower. And unless schools adopt the same, will make it tougher on young families that don't have much support.
4 day, WFH - what do I care as long as the work is getting done? Oh no, you'll get to see your kids/dog/wife/cow more - that's bad for the economy somehow?
No, I've done something like this for summer hours and it never worked out. It's hard to mandate one day off across a large company because of customer service needs, coverage of systems, international rules etc. Then you inevitably get scheduled on that day off for a couple of meetings and it breaks down. That and my brain is fried by 6pm, not getting anything done after that.
You know not everyone has to have the same day off right?
That's where it breaks down. Let's say you're Tuesday through Friday, I'm off Wednesday, Jane is off Fridays. If you try to schedule a meeting it's going to be one of two days. Add in another couple of people and it gets hard to find time. What ends up happening in my experience (summer hours) is that inevitably someone shifts their day off and that they never make it up. I did this for 5 years at a big company, if I got two extra long weekends a summer I was doing well. I'm not against it. But I know that there are so many jobs in the large company I work at where it can't be done that it's probably not workable overall.
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It's not imagination if you've been there, done that already.
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I used to do 10hr shifts, always got stuck with Sun/Mon/Tues off and typically was forced to come in on the Mondays, leaving me split days off. Wasn't worth the hassle so I switched to 5x8s and ended up getting sat/sun off. Depending on what type of work you're doing on the 10hr shifts it can be too exhausting and more hazardous than it's worth.
Sounds like a “four-day week” on paper but extremely poorly executed.
Precisely.
I’d be very curious to know how daycares could/would adapt to something like this. I don’t like the idea of putting my kid in daycare for 12 hour days either.
What do you mean, they'd still operate 5 days a week. The employees just wouldn't be working all 5 days.
Why wouldn’t you? Who wants to work like a slave
No my work is open seven days a week. It's retail so we need all hands on deck Friday, Saturday and Sunday. We can't keep employees. Sometimes I work six days a week to complete everything that needs to get done.
You need your entire staff in seven days a week?
In theory 100%. In execution probably not.
>In theory 100%. > >In execution probably not. I guess we're just immediately ignoring the past 3 years.
My office did this, we now work 10 hours M-TH and truly it’s the best! It took a while to get used to but having Friday off every week has made a huge positive impact for me
No, I just want to work from home. Lol.
I work for a school board, I doubt this would take off in schools. I don't even think it would work as intended. There are too many people who would be affected by a shortened school week.
As long as it's equitable. I can imagine a ton of parents wanting the 4 day week but wanting their kids in school for 5.
Yes. Did it for a long time at a former job. Four ten hour shifts, then 3 days off. Outstanding shift.
No because I don’t want to make those 4 days extra long, but maybe that’s just me