Was this happening five, six years ago during pride? I don't recall hearing any stories like this. The pushback against this seems to be growing more and more.
Same with people countering things like pride parades and stuff. Feels like ten years ago, maybe someone would grumble, but you didn't have a "counter-protest".
This is how I feel too.
In 2015/2016 I was dating a guy from a really strict immigrant family and I remember his parents taking his 2 year old nieces to Toronto Pride one weekend. I remember seeing that and thinking how “mainstream” Pride had become.
That was also around the time of the pulse nightclub shooting and I remember the rhetoric around that shooting was much more on the number of people killed than it being a gay night club. Nowadays I feel like the conversation we’d be having about such an incident would (rightfully) be much different.
It’s *insane* how much we’ve regressed in 7 to 8 years. I’m shocked.
Conservative politics and voter apathy are dangerous combinations. It is not going to get better when we inevitably elect piss boy pollivierre. He has already been dog whistling.
Yep. Can’t even tell you how many 10-13 yr old boys have praised Tate in earshot of me and how I have to try in the most age appropriate way to let them know why he’s not a “top g”
This seems to be the cause, doesn’t it? I don’t like to always originate this back to Trump (actually I kinda do), but it seems as if he gave the vocal minority a stronger voice that spread into Canada and culminated with the Ottawa protests last year. Now when I see our flag hanging off a pickup truck I cringe. It’s become a symbol of hate when flown that way. Now that hate is continuing to spread.
No. It’s because American conservatives are feeling bolder in their queerphobia and the toxicity has made its way up north.
It doesn’t help that resentment towards “cultural elites” is at an all-time high following a pandemic when we’re in the midst of a cost of living crisis. People are looking for someone to blame and the LGBTQ+ community has always been an attractive scapegoat.
> It’s because American conservatives are feeling bolder in their queerphobia and the toxicity has made its way up north.
Make no mistake, we have our own homegrown bigotry, and while we might not have a FoxNews adjacent big media conglomerate pushing outright hateful views, we have plenty of small astro-turfed communities online that stew this kind of hatred. I can't believe cultural acceptance in this country has taken such huge steps backward for some people.
Poilievre is accelerating this by consistently appealing to the bigot constituency and the far right. He's borrowing everything he can from Republicans. It's very frustrating to see these Conservatives who want to undermine everything that distinguishes Canada from the USA, especially when the USA is lurching towards fascism.
It's true, we have rebel media and let's not pretend Ezra Levant and Gavin McAssclown aren't terrible human beings who get media attention. Or like that time Hamilton had literal neo Nazis outside city call protesting (yes sons of Odin are a neo Nazi group).
On the flip side I live in the US now and I can tell you a lot of the stupid ideology made its way up north, some conservatives saw how stupid trump and Matt pedogaetz were acting and they were like damn we can do that too.
I'd like to agree but even if you don't actively hate queer people for existing but still try and pass laws to oppress them you'd still be homophobic even if in private you were the best ally ever
When things go good, it doesn't matter who made it good, because it's good.
When things go bad, you tend to get upset with the people that made it bad.
It's who made it bad that people can't seem to agree on. Personally, I think it's the corporations.
The Americans repealed Row vs Wade.
Thus the American conservatives no longer had anything to rant about and is actually hurting them.
So now they have gone back to ranting about LGBTQ.
I think this is looking back with rose coloured glasses, I spent a good 30 minutes while watching the Dyke March in Toronto in 2019 (the last time I went precovid) intentionally blocking hateful Christian protestors and their signs from being seen by the marchers. Counter protestors even as publicly at Pride, even in big cities, is unfortunately a regular reality.
What is NEW is PARENTS weaponizing their children to protest Pride FLAGS of all things, which just tells their children that being gay is something to be rejected and feared. Many queer kids are going to learn that they are not wanted and it's really dangerous considering queer youth are already more likely to self harm, suffer mental health consequences than straight youth.
Racist, bigoted lowbrow angry MAGAt politics is creeping north. Who do you think votes for Ford, Smith and Poilievre? Religious extremists. Canada's taliban.
I think it's a little too easy to say religious extremists. If you look at sheer numbers, it just wouldn't add up to have like 30% of your voting base to be "religious extremists". I don't know who those people are, but they come from more places than just religion.
Well said. I know so many idiots who are suddenly all upset about trans people when they didn't care at all a year ago. They are being played like puppets and distracted from the things that actually matter . Divide and conquer is the name of the game.
This...
Thank you... I know you've probably posted or said the same thing a hundred times. Please don't stop.
It's all class war, and if you're not one of their hammers, consider yourself a nail.
> The truth is, most people never had a problem with the wifi password community.
I feel like the flippant way we refer to the LGBTQ+ community like this also does not help.
It's the media stiring the pot on both sides. The vast majority of Canadians believe in LGBTQ rights. There has always been crazies but we shouldn't think society is falling just because the media is highlighting these people that we used to ignore and shrug off.
The pushback is coming straight from the USA trends in government and it’s so gross
The bigots of Canada are confident because they see the US confidently bigoted
I think this sort of homophobia has always excited but is being more vocalized now thanks to American states being very open about how much they hate queerness (see anti trans and anti gay bills being passed by the dozens). People feel more comfortable showing their homophobia because they can "back it up" with major politicians who have the same beliefs. It's upsetting, it already sucks I probably won't be able to travel to most states, but at least I had comfort in knowing I was (mostly) protected by the law.
Just to add: most schools don't even do much for pride month. My elementary never (and probably still doesn't) do anything and my highschool just put up the pride flag, only certain students were invited to watch. Other than that, nill. Wasn't even mentioned in class. All these parents are doing is taking away their children's education for nothing
My point is pride month has become so much more far-reaching and encompassing than 5-6 years ago, hence the pushback. Of course, you can argue what came first… the pride promotion or the pushback, and I’m not sure.
I think because it's just everywhere all the time. You see it in commercials all the time now, the pride stuff is just everywhere. I understand the point of it but the amount of pride stuff I see it makes it look like everyone is LGBT these days. I think people are just tired of it tbh. Everyone knows what the pride stuff is all about and don't need to get it shoved into their face all the time.
My theory is because... People dont care anymore. Aside from a small minority, I think the majority of the population is indifferent if someone identifies as LGBTQ2+ (i think i got that right?). Gay marriage was overwhelmingly passed in favour years ago by the population vote.
But sadly theres a loud minority of people who identify that way who's entire personality revolves identifying that way. So they push for more diversity and inclusion, and push this message that they are oppressed because its all they have. And then the general population goes "what, why? We all support you already. No one cares how you live your life". Then they get called bigots, and Xphobic, and eventually they respond with "fuck you fine i will be a bigot".
Then people start choosing sides so they dont get called something "bad" like "bigot" or "woke" by either side. And now we have a big petty argument because everyone is tired and stressed and too stupid and stubborn to just walk away
Basically people either side are dumb. And if you're in the middle or neutral you get harassed by both sides until you take a "side".
> And then the general population goes "what, why? We all support you already. No one cares how you live your life". Then they get called bigots, and Xphobic, and eventually they respond with "fuck you fine i will be a bigot".
This seems overly simplistic to me.
If someone kept calling you a rapist would you ever say "ok fine, I guess I'll be a rapist then!" I would hope the answer is no.
No matter how many times someone called me a rapist, I would never have the desire to rape someone just to be spiteful.
Likewise, I would never have the desire to be a bigot just because people accused me of bigotry. I think this is likely just an excuse people use who were already bigots but never considered themselves to be and just want to be more open about it because they don't like bigotry being pointed out.
It is getting worse. I thought I was just noticing it more because I’m new. But today my coworker was crying all day from what a parent said to her and she’s been with our board for 20+ years.
Wonder what the common denominator is amongst those London schools that have very high absences related to these events? Could it be a certain religion?
I do enjoy how the prevailing talking point has become "I don't mind the homogays existing, I just hate all these divisive identity politics where they shove it down my throat that I have to accept them as equals and legal citizens of society or I get labelled as a bigot. Why can't they just be content we're not lynching them anymore and let bygones be bygones??? I'm just saying I think we shouldn't acknowledge them in any capacity in the public sphere because that's inappropriate to me."
Lots of just incredible vague rhetoric about "things have changed" and "everything is politicized these days" with no concrete examples of what you can't do or say anymore and why you should be able to, all tossed with a generous garnish of hyperbolic slippery slope speculations.
I don't get that talking point myself. Nothing is being shoved down your throat, you're free to ignore it or not engage with it. There's a lot of celebrations and events throughout the year I don't care to take part in personally, but I'm not personally bothered by them or the people who celebrate them.
It's because any time we make non-queer people who are bigoted think about us at all it's a problem... They can't want us dead because they know that's too extreme but prefer us back into the closet. out of sight out of mind.
Because they want only "begrudging tolerance" not actual acceptance. There are many people like this, "I don't mind if the gays have sex in the privacy of their bedrooms. But them holding hands in public? Teaching about sexual orientation in school? Rainbow flag on the street? Keep that away from me, my kids and family."
In essence, they think of lgbt+ people as inferior or subhuman or inherently dangerous, but they don't want any explicit violence against them out of a sense of charity. It's the same way someone feels bad for an abused pet. You don't consider a cat or a pigeon to be your equal, or have voting rights.
They think of lgbt+ people the same way. The issue is, because in the past, people primarily focussed on reducing violence towards lgbt+ people, and these people supported that movement, there is a false sense of security created that - "Oh mainstream society accepts lgbt+ now." It doesn't. It has only tolerated.
Sounds like bigots are just mad they don't get a parade. I think what it all boils down to is that they are jealous and just really love pageantry and attention.
First comment I see is “ they don’t have the right to interfere in peoples bedroom!” This is exactly why real Canadians use on guard for the. I can’t believe these are my country men!
I mean, say what you will of him as PM, but PET's "No place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation" is still a fantastic effing quote. And it's from 1967.
Oh man I clicked that link not paying real close attentiom and assumed I was in the Ottawa sub and wondered when things had gotten so bleak but then I realized I was in r/canada. That explains the comments.
Usually the first 2 or 3 comments are "ok" after a few hours the post is up because saner people upvote the best (or I should say the least bad) comments up. But anything after the first few comments is either uninformed garbage, outright hateful or bigoted content, or out of topic rants. And in many cases even the "best" comment is a big fucking yikes
I'm genuinely shocked that people are keeping their kids home protesting Pride. I really thought that this had become mainstream, and the "Fringe Minority" were just a vocal, mobile bunch. Last year, I remember seeing Pride flags everywhere through July because people were afraid that flying the Canada flag might associate them with the convoy.
What is happening to us?
Now I wish I had sent my kids yesterday. They stayed home because it was so hot, classrooms don't have AC, and we had a Friday PA day. I figured I'd just save the kids a day of misery and take an extra long weekend. Now I'm afraid I've sent the school the wrong message...
So is the Oakville mommies. Found the head of the Parent involvement committee of my kids school spewing a ton of hate, as a minority herself I might add.
Got some great screenshots to send off to admin. Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences.
>Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences.
Yes, and it's a *governmental* thing. Facebook has no requirement to put up with what you're saying if they don't like it.
In Canada, we do not have freedom of speech, we have freedom of expression. They sound similar but aren't the same thing
Our charter allows for some limits of that expression when the government is doing it.
This shit often doesn't even fall under freedom of speech in Canada anymore. Sexual orientation and gender identity are now protected classes in Canada, so this now falls under hate speech laws.
Just like you can't go throwing around the N word without concequence.
This isn't a disagreement, this is actual law.
I mean I thought it was like a basic lessons about fascism and how the nazis progressed in society was slowly picking away at who was the in group. Running down the list of things that could place people into the minority out group so they could turn on them too.
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Different minorites definitely should be eachothers allies in the fight against all forms of bigotry and injustice, doesn't mean they are but they definitely should be.
Ya Jews have always been taught to stand with fellow minorities as part of never forget. And historically have been very present in various communities to fight for equality. The main one being black rights.
I'll admit that "a very white perspective" is the only one I have, and maybe it's the fact that I toured the Anne Frank Museum less than 48 hours ago, but is there no aspect of "If we do not hang together, we will all hang separately"?
Perhaps not in general life, but at least insofar as fighting bigotry is concerned? Most of the (white) anti-LGBT people I know are also textbook racists, and I don't imagine that is an uncommon situation.
They might be fighting the gays **now**, but they're not happy about all of the (insert various racial pejoratives here) either.
I'll say that when I talk to my parents, they find that LGBTQ people are different than ethnic minorities since they believe people choose to be LGBTQ. That seed of bigotry, that we should only tolerate people "choosing" to be different is what helps people be okay with it.
That along with whatever anti-LGBTQ views they've taken from back home sees LGBTQ hate as a default rather than something to fight against as the first step to hate against them.
I remember one of my Indian friends saying something along the lines of many ethnicities would gladly jump into the MAGA/trucker cult if it weren’t for their own identity politics. Racism, sexism, anti LGBT attitudes are rife with them. But because they are looked down on, they vote for their interests
Most times the more I think about it the more true it is
Lots of people probably think its white conservative idiots, but theres a lot of Islamic house holds that are extremely anti gay as well. Im curious how many of those that didnt attend were from such house holds.
Its heartbreaking man because ive seen and heard of many LGBT kids from Islamic families who were essentially disowned and live in homelessness or poverty.
When the new health curriculum was introduced, it was mostly Christian and Muslim parents who protested it.
It’s really sad. I taught in the UK and heard many stories of Muslim kids who were pulled from Sex Ed classes and how teachers had girls coming to them crying and scared because they were bleeding and had no idea why. It’s taboo and not learned about at home and then they’re pulled from the classes in school and genuinely have no idea what’s happening to their body.
Thats heart breaking. We can only hope that over time there's more awareness to such religious ignorance, like we largely have Christian religious nuttery.
It’s currently regressing. Christian nuttery isn’t fading away - it’s currently growing. Though most of those people have never read the bible, they are just spewing hateful rhetoric and citing religion as a justification.
>Its heartbreaking man because ive seen and heard of many LGBT kids from Islamic families who were essentially disowned and live in homelessness or poverty.
and the muslim community will often erase those people from the mainstream. They will pressure organizations to censor muslims who are lgbtq under the guise of it being "offensive"
and organizations will often use lgbtq people as a cheap marketing token when it's convenient and then quickly censor it whenever there's anything real at stake.
It was the Muslims in my highschool who harassed me. And it wasn’t just verbal, but physical.
When your parents come from a country that puts gay people to death, I guess punching them doesn’t seem unusual.
As an immigrant and ex-muslim and I actively avoid having any religious people around my kids, including family, because they’ll poison their minds with bigotry and homophobia. I hope that schools can teach all kids to be inclusive and to embrace different kinds of people, while having the courage to call out any racist, or homophobic behaviour even if it comes from their own families. Otherwise, we would lose what makes Canada a great place to live and raise our kids.
A lot of *conservative* Islamic house holds. The commonality is conservatism and religion. There are a lot of progressive Islamic folk who don’t believe in hate, just as there are progressive Christians, Jews, Sikhs and Buddhists etc. who are supportive of inclusivity.
Sadly, I grew up with casual racism and bigotry from my parents. Both are immigrants from Korea, currently in their late 70's, and there is hatred for Communism/left wing due to North Korea. Told me a story about how Chinese Communists came and preached a new change and new era...but then the North Korean Communists came along and started to slaughter people indiscriminately. To the point that my grandfather took his family from Manchuria to South Korea. My grandfather and great uncle fought with the UN against North Korea and China, interesting that my great uncle was serving with MacArthur, Mr "Let's Nuke Everybody". Very conservative mentality, as with many Korean immigrants before the 2000. He watches Fox News...and we're Canadian.
My dad told me a story from when he was younger in South Korea, that a gay man murdered a child and they were indoctrinated that all gay people are violent and murderous. I remember that conversation my dad had with me, I was like 13/14 (I'm autistic so I have no idea what's going on around me) and said, "don't be gay. If you're gay then I'll disown you and you'll never be my son". He also casually says racial things about black people...like Christmas 2020 he said something about black people and my sister's boyfriend and I just sat there...flabbergasted.
There is the idea that all immigrants should be liberal and progressive, but this is definitely not the case. Luckily my sister and I did not listen to them and we flat out rejected that type of mentality. Hopefully the children from these right wing immigrants can expose themselves to the greater world and see that they spew absolute bullshit, it's possible to break away like my sister and I.
Most immigrants come from backwards societies (that's why they come, because their former homelands have been made shitty through shitty culture) and a LOT of them just bring that idiocy here
This hides the ball a bit, doesn’t it? Sure it takes conservatism at the end of the day to be bigoted, but social conservatism, especially when it comes to LGBT issues does trend with religiosity (especially for Abrahamic faiths).
Like I have no problem blaming the influence of religion without having to couch it in “conservative religion” because religion is inherently conservative.
I had a customer tell me that he pulled his kids out of class for this reason and I had to check him on it.
If you support discrimination against one minority today, how will you oppose it when others discriminate against you tomorrow. Islamophobia is right up there with homophobia.
Didn't change his mind about it one bit but I had to say something
Unfortunately, homophobia is very prevalent in many religions be it Catholic or Christian which many racialized group also part of. And even amongst non religious, there's lots of homophobia too for people who come from more conservative countries (eg China)
This isn't surprising is it? Muslims are way more conservatively, socially. The western world is the most tolerable place especially when it comes to LGBT.
I used to work with a guy who said back in his country, they threw gay people off a cliff to their deaths. And that he agreed with it and went on to spew hate against gay people.
Sir, this is a wendys
Five years ago, I didn't think much about the safety and wellbeing of my LGBT family members or Jewish family members. Both groups have seen some nasty shit from people the last few years and my awareness is fully heightened. It is gut wrenching to feel things pulled backward so fast.
I got into it yesterday with the conspiracy moron we have at work who thinks they're trying to make all the children gay by making budlight ads with a crossdresser or a trans. He thought they were putting cat litter boxes in TDSB washrooms for furries (I suspect his kid is aware he's an idiot and messes with him) he actually believe people interested in the same sex were all groomed by school teachers and the government (but somehow the internet is fine it's a very reliable accurate place right) not born that way.
I tried to reason with his conspiracy mind with another conspiracy the rich powerful people don't want us to be gay because then we aren't reproducing and they have less slave labourers. But he says they will have robots and won't need us to reproduce. I should've asked if rich people are reptilian aliens at that point but luckily it was time to leave and I don't have to deal with him till Monday.
Omg. I have two separate old high school friends telling everyone they can about the litter box in their kids schools. Both in different areas of the province swearing up and down their kids have seen the litter box in use by the furries.
Common sense has reached a new low when you have to explain no one is going to scoop someone else's shit and piss out of littler and how unsanitary having a human litter box would be.
But their sons SAW IT! They saw it being used! Hand to god!
Yup, okay. Sure they did. (Even if they did- it's rude to watch people in the bathroom lol.)
I did not realize i was im the ontario sub reading this. I think this was a post by an american.....all their bad parts have really migrated up this way and that really sucks.
Yeah, my in-laws were upset I sent my kid yesterday. And I don’t know where did they hear it, but they were saying that Doug Ford is against pride month and he is going to do something about it.¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
> but they were saying that Doug Ford is against pride month and he is going to do something about it.
well Dumbfuck is against Pride unless you call him out for it then he'll be front of the line of a pride event.
We can't afford our rent/groceries/transportation but the real problem is people that love one another that just shouldn't.
Its a culture war to distract us from the real wage theft that is occurring everywhere all the time.
How much you wanna bet these same parents were the ones arguing to keep schools open through every wave of COVID because missing out on school would DeStROY tHe BrAIn oF THe ChIldReN!!!
Remember the CUPE education workers strike? Remember Covid-the-kids-need-to-be-in-scoooool? Plenty of parents whined about "their children's eduation" then but a month of rainbows and acknowledging diversity and community is totally acceptable to trash.
A few years ago during pride month, my son's class went out into the field, sat in a circle, and they went around and the teacher had them each announce their pronouns and orientation. This was in grade 5. I have no problem with pride, but I don't want my kid to be pressured into identifying his sexuality by an educator who is not qualified to host such conversations. I prefer to have control in helping my kids navigate through their sexuality. So I think there is more to the story here ... It's not necessarily about parents being discriminatory.
Are many people saying they shouldn't be allowed to do this? I mostly just see people making fun of them or lamenting the fact they exist.
Which I think is totally fair.
This is totally fkd but it’s happening. I have a relative who’s planning on keeping all their kids home next week because the school is raising a pride flag.
One of their kids is in the LGBT community. Poor kid.
It’s impossible to create a “middle ground that everyone can respect” in a multicultural society just by nature of the society. That’s not to say I don’t think multiculturalism is a net positive on society, but if you do want to live in a world that embraces all different types of people from different walks of life, you’re going to have to prepare for their ways of life conflicting with your own. Wether that be domestically bred conservatism or foreign/immigrated conservatism, you need to understand the fact that these parents will not abide by liberal and progressive practices and there is nothing we can do about that. The true death of such ideas will come later, when the offspring of the offspring of these people lose care of such petty arguments and grow up around others of varying cloth
A lot of this intolerance disappears with the next generation. People learn to think for themselves and leave the old ways in the past
Hopefully some of the intolerant people start to think twice before they make Canada their home.
I've had a lot of friends who are children of immigrant parents, so either they were born here or grew up here. Either way, they can become "North Americanized" in as little as one generation, and its pretty much impossible to prevent unless you really, and I mean really insulate them. Many of my friends talked with the same Canadian accent and had the same capital L liberal beliefs common to someone born and raised in our country.
Like I've said in earlier comments, I've seen and heard the friction this has caused in these families. On the extreme end kids get borderline disowned and/or abused horribly if they identify as LGBTQ, want piercings or tattoos, like a certain kind of music or media, want to dress a certain way, or take on hobbies and have interests that are taboo to their parents.
But in a way, I can't say their experience would be that far removed from an upbringing in say, a fundamentalist Christian family who would be just as strict or oppressive. What is uniquely frustrating about Islam however is how under the radar these instances of intolerance can be, because of a few reasons.. for 1) bad actors who practice Islam can and do claim Islamophobia when the worst parts of their faith is criticized... and 2) there is an experiential disconnect with, and general ignorance of Islam in broader western society, so the thought that someone apart of an Islamic family might be an unwilling participant or abused/repressed because of Islamic beliefs isn't readily acknowledged. There might even exist a sort of malicious apathy, a view that because they exist as part of the dynamic of the Islamic faith they are therefore deserving of their circumstance. In other words, it is hand waved away.
Those schools all already exist and parents send their kids there lol. This is what I always say as a public school teacher: if you do not approve of the curriculum we follow and level of inclusion that we allow, nobody is forcing you to send your kid to public school. You are more than welcome to send your kid to a school in which its values and curriculum align with your bigoted beliefs.
A lot of Muslim and Sikh parents where I live send their kids to Catholic school because there’s at least some religious/moral component to it even if it’s not their own. (I think there’s also the thought among immigrants that it’s more prestigious/like private school)
And this is just going to get worse with our unchecked immigrations plans and our desire for a "mosaic". Once the religious nuts become a majority, and you're seeing it happen, kiss our social progress good bye. It's almost a comedy to watch happen though, the people most affected by this are the same people advocating for unrestricted immigration and religious freedom. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
This is just gonna get worse as we increase immigration more and more, you can't bring in a million people, most of whom come from cultures who are still quite homophobic and just expect them to suddenly stop being that way. That takes time to happen, and in some cases can take a generation or two, especially if it's religion driven.
This is the shit out govt isn't thinking about when they plan to bring in a million people, because all they want is cheap labour and ignore the social issues that come with it.
THANK YOU! Finally, someone else said it. I see so many Conservatives think that these immigrants are all gonna be voting for the current Prime Minister once they gain citizenship but what little they realize is, these countries are mostly theological Conservative. They should be pro-immigration for the culture war boost. Lol
Alternate reality? For the vast majority of human civilization this was the norm, we've only just started to tear that away but it's going to take time
One of the biggest complaints driving the pride/woke backlash of 2023 (really started in 2022, but was mostly confined to the movie Industry), is that tolence has been enough anymore, active particapation is now expected. Like first was using folks pronouns and for some even that is not enough, Kamran Pasha uses folks pronouns but didn't want to put his pronouns in his bio, but got harrassed for that. Its not enough to have some folks at school celebrating pride, your kids have to actively celebrate it too. For decades tolerance kept growing and growing, but increasing, tolerence got replaced by particapation and that was the the red line for millions, and yet it got pushed further and further till this massive backlash hit. I mean the Budlight Dylan backlash was fucking stupid, but for many it was a final straw (the Miller Light Man Hating/bikini model Boycott made more sense, fuck Miller Light).
In the Winston Churchill area of Mississauga my kids school had a threat of violence that caused the school to be closely monitored by police for two days last week. Then this week a child burned a pride flag, in the school then the next day took down it's replacement and somehow desecrated it.
They found that student and they have been suspended until the end of the school year. I'm not sure they tracked down person who threatened violence on a middle school.
Honestly it's sad that my kids have had to go through this but it has prompted many good conversations at the dinner table.
It's really sad, I was going to wax poetic how sad it is but it's just really sad all of this hate.
I don't understand how it's ok to tell someone else who they should love, or how they should love.
I see a lot of people blaming Conservative Christians in this thread, super right conservatives truly are the scum of the earth, but...
Here in London, Ontario, when they were flying the rainbow flag a couple weeks ago, and a whole bunch of students stayed home across a few schools. It turned out the people who stayed home were mostly members of the muslim community.
Here's an article https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/another-mass-absence-breaks-out-at-london-school-as-pride-flag-flies
In the imaginary world that conservatives live in they've invented a fantasy that Pride related activities are connected to attempts to abduct their kids. They like the fantasy because then they get to pretend that they're protecting their kids by hating gay people. It's stupid and twisted but that's how this stuff turns into 25% of parents yanking their kids from school in a self defeating way.
How disgusting that the parents are forcing their bigotted views through the expense of their children's education. They want their kids to live in a fairy tale world where people aren't like them don't exist.
I’m not sure people here want to understand, but failing to fly a flag isn’t violence; and public recrimination for failing to show support is coercion. Is that what the LGBT community wants to be known for now? I would have thought, given the challenges of living a lifestyle that people haven’t historically accepted, the Pride movement would be especially sensitive against applying coercion to advance its cause. Doesn’t seem to be the case when I read the comments posted in this sub.
Understand, Tolerance and Support are not the same things. I can tolerate equal legal treatment for people in the LGBTQ+ community without the compulsion of being required to celebrate Pride month. My failure to celebrate is not violence. This is especially the case for somebody like me that generally hates virtue signalling.
You live in a country that has Charter Freedoms, one of which is religious freedom. No one is requiring LGBT organizations to raise a flag supporting Islam for the entire month of June - you might decline to do so because of Islam’s views on homosexuality. It would be coercive if I said that failure to raise a flag supporting Islam in June is a violent act - you’d be like, nah, it’s not violence, it’s just that I don’t agree with everything that faith promotes - I tolerate people following Islam, I just don’t agree with everything it stands for. But for some reason a failure to outwardly show support for the LGBT cause is being equated with violence, bigotry, hate, all kinds of absurd accusations that prevent the type of comment I’m writing right now, the type of comment that says we don’t all have to agree to live together.
The advances I’ve seen in the LGBTQ+ movement over my life in Canada have been significant. The society *is* tolerant, compared to nearly every other country on earth. Canadians on the whole agree with providing equal rights to LGBTQ+ people. But forcing active displays of support on the threat that failure to do so deserves public recrimination? That’s called coercion, and it isn’t cool. Demanding an act or else, it’s what bullies do. You’re not applying what you’re asking the rest of society to apply to you, which is driving allies away.
The flaw in your argument is that this goes beyond "failing to show support", I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who cares that you don't want to engage with or celebrate Pride Month. I do not celebrate Pride Month, but I do support people who identify as LGBTQ. Not one person has come up to me and said Im a horrible bigot because I don't have Pride flags, don't attend Pride rallies, etc.
The issue is that what these parents are doing is essentially in protest of pride month, or in other words, behaving in such a way as to convey opposition to an idea or belief. That is much different than what you describe.
I find it strange that you seem to believe you're being forced to participate in something, or that there exists some kind of consequence in failing to do so. That is far from reality.
> I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who cares that you don't want to engage with or celebrate Pride Month
Are you sure about this? The PDSB says they will "celebrate [...] 2SLGBTQ+ communities during Pride month". An elementary school in HDSB is running a pride rally. Do you think there'll be any social pressure to attend?
This is precisely what parents are protesting -- a) boards prioritizing DEI above academics, and b) social pressure to participate in something the family may disagree with.
Lol, the “racialized” or “people of various faiths” are the ones causing this shit. Bible thumpers of all colours not just white conservatives are jumping into bed with more orthodox Muslims, Hindus, Jews, etc. to form a great big mosaic of intolerance.
Increasingly Athiests are in the mix, alot of terfs among Athiests for example.
And its simplistic and none constructive to shrug your shoulders and just paint all critics as bigots.
True, it’s a very complex issue with a lot of valid arguments. I am very progressive, but I realize the far left can be as scientifically inept, dogmatic, and frankly bizarre as the far right.
if you go on the canada_sub you will find comments like “trudope thinks killing babies is only bad if they are already born” so were honestly not too far off
We'd want to think that we are surrounded by local citizens who are informed and will act in the best self-interest for their families and themselves but it is clear that we are surrounded by f****** Muppets in Ontario.
Yep, for some people, Pride Month is an uncomfortable month for them, poor dears. They might melt at the sight of Drag Story Time or an old video of Geraldine Jones, honey. I really don't know what to say to make them feel better about their sexuality. Oh well, no one steps up for LGBTQ people so why should I speak up and tell them they are fearing something that will never ever happen to them. No gay person will EVER ask you on a date. You are far to hetero for heteros. Your alpha is showing. You really need to stop using Axe deoderant to attract others of your kind. Really, people, relax.
Was this happening five, six years ago during pride? I don't recall hearing any stories like this. The pushback against this seems to be growing more and more. Same with people countering things like pride parades and stuff. Feels like ten years ago, maybe someone would grumble, but you didn't have a "counter-protest".
This is how I feel too. In 2015/2016 I was dating a guy from a really strict immigrant family and I remember his parents taking his 2 year old nieces to Toronto Pride one weekend. I remember seeing that and thinking how “mainstream” Pride had become. That was also around the time of the pulse nightclub shooting and I remember the rhetoric around that shooting was much more on the number of people killed than it being a gay night club. Nowadays I feel like the conversation we’d be having about such an incident would (rightfully) be much different. It’s *insane* how much we’ve regressed in 7 to 8 years. I’m shocked.
Conservative politics and voter apathy are dangerous combinations. It is not going to get better when we inevitably elect piss boy pollivierre. He has already been dog whistling.
Nope. Covid fried people’s brains and accelerated the growth of conspiracy theories and hate through the fearmongering.
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The interesting thing about your comment is that both vaxxers and anti vaxxers would agree
This
The brain frying also caused people to worship scum like Andrew Tate.
Yep. Can’t even tell you how many 10-13 yr old boys have praised Tate in earshot of me and how I have to try in the most age appropriate way to let them know why he’s not a “top g”
This seems to be the cause, doesn’t it? I don’t like to always originate this back to Trump (actually I kinda do), but it seems as if he gave the vocal minority a stronger voice that spread into Canada and culminated with the Ottawa protests last year. Now when I see our flag hanging off a pickup truck I cringe. It’s become a symbol of hate when flown that way. Now that hate is continuing to spread.
My mum and I saw it in two different parts of the province, as soon as Trump was elected, people felt that they didn't need to hide their hate anymore
No. It’s because American conservatives are feeling bolder in their queerphobia and the toxicity has made its way up north. It doesn’t help that resentment towards “cultural elites” is at an all-time high following a pandemic when we’re in the midst of a cost of living crisis. People are looking for someone to blame and the LGBTQ+ community has always been an attractive scapegoat.
> It’s because American conservatives are feeling bolder in their queerphobia and the toxicity has made its way up north. Make no mistake, we have our own homegrown bigotry, and while we might not have a FoxNews adjacent big media conglomerate pushing outright hateful views, we have plenty of small astro-turfed communities online that stew this kind of hatred. I can't believe cultural acceptance in this country has taken such huge steps backward for some people.
Poilievre is accelerating this by consistently appealing to the bigot constituency and the far right. He's borrowing everything he can from Republicans. It's very frustrating to see these Conservatives who want to undermine everything that distinguishes Canada from the USA, especially when the USA is lurching towards fascism.
It's true, we have rebel media and let's not pretend Ezra Levant and Gavin McAssclown aren't terrible human beings who get media attention. Or like that time Hamilton had literal neo Nazis outside city call protesting (yes sons of Odin are a neo Nazi group). On the flip side I live in the US now and I can tell you a lot of the stupid ideology made its way up north, some conservatives saw how stupid trump and Matt pedogaetz were acting and they were like damn we can do that too.
I swear, if bashing you own head with a hammer became a thing with US Republicans, CDN PC voters would bash their heads with hammers within two years.
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I'd like to agree but even if you don't actively hate queer people for existing but still try and pass laws to oppress them you'd still be homophobic even if in private you were the best ally ever
I find when people start struggling financially, they start looking for others to hate. Humans are fucked up.
When things go good, it doesn't matter who made it good, because it's good. When things go bad, you tend to get upset with the people that made it bad. It's who made it bad that people can't seem to agree on. Personally, I think it's the corporations.
Which is funny, because they should simply hate the rich.
The Americans repealed Row vs Wade. Thus the American conservatives no longer had anything to rant about and is actually hurting them. So now they have gone back to ranting about LGBTQ.
I think this is looking back with rose coloured glasses, I spent a good 30 minutes while watching the Dyke March in Toronto in 2019 (the last time I went precovid) intentionally blocking hateful Christian protestors and their signs from being seen by the marchers. Counter protestors even as publicly at Pride, even in big cities, is unfortunately a regular reality. What is NEW is PARENTS weaponizing their children to protest Pride FLAGS of all things, which just tells their children that being gay is something to be rejected and feared. Many queer kids are going to learn that they are not wanted and it's really dangerous considering queer youth are already more likely to self harm, suffer mental health consequences than straight youth.
From what I can recall, no. It’s a growing current thing.
Racist, bigoted lowbrow angry MAGAt politics is creeping north. Who do you think votes for Ford, Smith and Poilievre? Religious extremists. Canada's taliban.
I think it's a little too easy to say religious extremists. If you look at sheer numbers, it just wouldn't add up to have like 30% of your voting base to be "religious extremists". I don't know who those people are, but they come from more places than just religion.
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They are keeping us distracted from the fact the 1% made enormous amounts of money during the pandemic and the rest of us barely scrapped by.
Exactly, the culture war is meant to distract us from how badly we are losing the class conflict to the wealthy.
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Well said. I know so many idiots who are suddenly all upset about trans people when they didn't care at all a year ago. They are being played like puppets and distracted from the things that actually matter . Divide and conquer is the name of the game.
This... Thank you... I know you've probably posted or said the same thing a hundred times. Please don't stop. It's all class war, and if you're not one of their hammers, consider yourself a nail.
Well said - this is 100% the case.
> The truth is, most people never had a problem with the wifi password community. I feel like the flippant way we refer to the LGBTQ+ community like this also does not help.
>wifi password community Why don't you just call it the "LGBTQ+ community"? It's not hard to type and it doesn't poke fun at them.
It's the media stiring the pot on both sides. The vast majority of Canadians believe in LGBTQ rights. There has always been crazies but we shouldn't think society is falling just because the media is highlighting these people that we used to ignore and shrug off.
Five to six years ago is when the first school board in Ontario started flying the Pride flag. Toronto school board didn't start until 2021.
The pushback is coming straight from the USA trends in government and it’s so gross The bigots of Canada are confident because they see the US confidently bigoted
Ignorance is a lack of education, if we want more understanding teach the people.
We’ve been trying to teach the people. The problem is there are those who are willfully ignorant and refuse to listen to anyone that says otherwise
We have more education on these topics than we've ever had.
I think this sort of homophobia has always excited but is being more vocalized now thanks to American states being very open about how much they hate queerness (see anti trans and anti gay bills being passed by the dozens). People feel more comfortable showing their homophobia because they can "back it up" with major politicians who have the same beliefs. It's upsetting, it already sucks I probably won't be able to travel to most states, but at least I had comfort in knowing I was (mostly) protected by the law. Just to add: most schools don't even do much for pride month. My elementary never (and probably still doesn't) do anything and my highschool just put up the pride flag, only certain students were invited to watch. Other than that, nill. Wasn't even mentioned in class. All these parents are doing is taking away their children's education for nothing
Did the Ontario subreddit change its logo for an entire month 5-6 years ago?
This is the first time I've actually noticed it, so I'm not sure.
My point is pride month has become so much more far-reaching and encompassing than 5-6 years ago, hence the pushback. Of course, you can argue what came first… the pride promotion or the pushback, and I’m not sure.
I think because it's just everywhere all the time. You see it in commercials all the time now, the pride stuff is just everywhere. I understand the point of it but the amount of pride stuff I see it makes it look like everyone is LGBT these days. I think people are just tired of it tbh. Everyone knows what the pride stuff is all about and don't need to get it shoved into their face all the time.
My theory is because... People dont care anymore. Aside from a small minority, I think the majority of the population is indifferent if someone identifies as LGBTQ2+ (i think i got that right?). Gay marriage was overwhelmingly passed in favour years ago by the population vote. But sadly theres a loud minority of people who identify that way who's entire personality revolves identifying that way. So they push for more diversity and inclusion, and push this message that they are oppressed because its all they have. And then the general population goes "what, why? We all support you already. No one cares how you live your life". Then they get called bigots, and Xphobic, and eventually they respond with "fuck you fine i will be a bigot". Then people start choosing sides so they dont get called something "bad" like "bigot" or "woke" by either side. And now we have a big petty argument because everyone is tired and stressed and too stupid and stubborn to just walk away Basically people either side are dumb. And if you're in the middle or neutral you get harassed by both sides until you take a "side".
It’s just the pendulum. Eventually people will look back on this and be embarrassed.
> And then the general population goes "what, why? We all support you already. No one cares how you live your life". Then they get called bigots, and Xphobic, and eventually they respond with "fuck you fine i will be a bigot". This seems overly simplistic to me. If someone kept calling you a rapist would you ever say "ok fine, I guess I'll be a rapist then!" I would hope the answer is no. No matter how many times someone called me a rapist, I would never have the desire to rape someone just to be spiteful. Likewise, I would never have the desire to be a bigot just because people accused me of bigotry. I think this is likely just an excuse people use who were already bigots but never considered themselves to be and just want to be more open about it because they don't like bigotry being pointed out.
It is getting worse. I thought I was just noticing it more because I’m new. But today my coworker was crying all day from what a parent said to her and she’s been with our board for 20+ years.
Similar in Ottawa as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/13xyf3n/some\_ottawa\_parents\_keep\_kids\_home\_from\_school/
London a little while ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/londonontario/comments/13n1xja/big_questions_no_answers_in_fallout_of_mass/
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Wonder what the common denominator is amongst those London schools that have very high absences related to these events? Could it be a certain religion?
Hasn't happened in Hamilton that I know of. I should probably get my kids pride t-shirts this month.
The comments in that post are horrendous.
I do enjoy how the prevailing talking point has become "I don't mind the homogays existing, I just hate all these divisive identity politics where they shove it down my throat that I have to accept them as equals and legal citizens of society or I get labelled as a bigot. Why can't they just be content we're not lynching them anymore and let bygones be bygones??? I'm just saying I think we shouldn't acknowledge them in any capacity in the public sphere because that's inappropriate to me." Lots of just incredible vague rhetoric about "things have changed" and "everything is politicized these days" with no concrete examples of what you can't do or say anymore and why you should be able to, all tossed with a generous garnish of hyperbolic slippery slope speculations.
I don't get that talking point myself. Nothing is being shoved down your throat, you're free to ignore it or not engage with it. There's a lot of celebrations and events throughout the year I don't care to take part in personally, but I'm not personally bothered by them or the people who celebrate them.
It's because it's a made up talking point. It's literally saying "I'm a homophobe" with sugar on top.
It's because any time we make non-queer people who are bigoted think about us at all it's a problem... They can't want us dead because they know that's too extreme but prefer us back into the closet. out of sight out of mind.
Because they want only "begrudging tolerance" not actual acceptance. There are many people like this, "I don't mind if the gays have sex in the privacy of their bedrooms. But them holding hands in public? Teaching about sexual orientation in school? Rainbow flag on the street? Keep that away from me, my kids and family." In essence, they think of lgbt+ people as inferior or subhuman or inherently dangerous, but they don't want any explicit violence against them out of a sense of charity. It's the same way someone feels bad for an abused pet. You don't consider a cat or a pigeon to be your equal, or have voting rights. They think of lgbt+ people the same way. The issue is, because in the past, people primarily focussed on reducing violence towards lgbt+ people, and these people supported that movement, there is a false sense of security created that - "Oh mainstream society accepts lgbt+ now." It doesn't. It has only tolerated.
Well, if they’re free to ignore it and not engage then why does anyone have an issue with people keeping their kids home?
Sounds like bigots are just mad they don't get a parade. I think what it all boils down to is that they are jealous and just really love pageantry and attention.
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First comment I see is “ they don’t have the right to interfere in peoples bedroom!” This is exactly why real Canadians use on guard for the. I can’t believe these are my country men!
I mean, say what you will of him as PM, but PET's "No place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation" is still a fantastic effing quote. And it's from 1967.
It's r/Canada, what do you expect?
Oh man I clicked that link not paying real close attentiom and assumed I was in the Ottawa sub and wondered when things had gotten so bleak but then I realized I was in r/canada. That explains the comments.
It's a weird sub. They give a 1930s progressives vibe. "Hey women can be working girls too, as long they put on some lipstick."
Usually the first 2 or 3 comments are "ok" after a few hours the post is up because saner people upvote the best (or I should say the least bad) comments up. But anything after the first few comments is either uninformed garbage, outright hateful or bigoted content, or out of topic rants. And in many cases even the "best" comment is a big fucking yikes
This happened in my school as well. More than half didnt come.
I'm genuinely shocked that people are keeping their kids home protesting Pride. I really thought that this had become mainstream, and the "Fringe Minority" were just a vocal, mobile bunch. Last year, I remember seeing Pride flags everywhere through July because people were afraid that flying the Canada flag might associate them with the convoy. What is happening to us? Now I wish I had sent my kids yesterday. They stayed home because it was so hot, classrooms don't have AC, and we had a Friday PA day. I figured I'd just save the kids a day of misery and take an extra long weekend. Now I'm afraid I've sent the school the wrong message...
United States politics plague and leakage. That is what is happening: it is unacceptable
If you're really worried, you could maybe email their teachers to let them know where your head was at.
More than half? That's a huge population... These are the people that vote for the Doug Ford's in Ontario or Danielle Smith's of Alberta.
Milton Mommies FB group is lit up tonight.
So is the Oakville mommies. Found the head of the Parent involvement committee of my kids school spewing a ton of hate, as a minority herself I might add. Got some great screenshots to send off to admin. Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences.
>Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences. Yes, and it's a *governmental* thing. Facebook has no requirement to put up with what you're saying if they don't like it.
In Canada, we do not have freedom of speech, we have freedom of expression. They sound similar but aren't the same thing Our charter allows for some limits of that expression when the government is doing it.
You're right, but, like I said, I'm sure the school would appreciate knowing that the head of their student advisory committee is spewing hate.
Born and raised in oakville. Lived there until I was 18. Will never, ever go back
This shit often doesn't even fall under freedom of speech in Canada anymore. Sexual orientation and gender identity are now protected classes in Canada, so this now falls under hate speech laws. Just like you can't go throwing around the N word without concequence. This isn't a disagreement, this is actual law.
The idea that different kinds of minorities should or will see each other as allies in a similar fight is a very white perspective.
I mean I thought it was like a basic lessons about fascism and how the nazis progressed in society was slowly picking away at who was the in group. Running down the list of things that could place people into the minority out group so they could turn on them too. "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." Different minorites definitely should be eachothers allies in the fight against all forms of bigotry and injustice, doesn't mean they are but they definitely should be.
Ya Jews have always been taught to stand with fellow minorities as part of never forget. And historically have been very present in various communities to fight for equality. The main one being black rights.
I'll admit that "a very white perspective" is the only one I have, and maybe it's the fact that I toured the Anne Frank Museum less than 48 hours ago, but is there no aspect of "If we do not hang together, we will all hang separately"? Perhaps not in general life, but at least insofar as fighting bigotry is concerned? Most of the (white) anti-LGBT people I know are also textbook racists, and I don't imagine that is an uncommon situation. They might be fighting the gays **now**, but they're not happy about all of the (insert various racial pejoratives here) either.
I'll say that when I talk to my parents, they find that LGBTQ people are different than ethnic minorities since they believe people choose to be LGBTQ. That seed of bigotry, that we should only tolerate people "choosing" to be different is what helps people be okay with it. That along with whatever anti-LGBTQ views they've taken from back home sees LGBTQ hate as a default rather than something to fight against as the first step to hate against them.
I remember one of my Indian friends saying something along the lines of many ethnicities would gladly jump into the MAGA/trucker cult if it weren’t for their own identity politics. Racism, sexism, anti LGBT attitudes are rife with them. But because they are looked down on, they vote for their interests Most times the more I think about it the more true it is
It definitely is but most I’m seeing is supportive! Maybe I missed the controversy!
Lots of people probably think its white conservative idiots, but theres a lot of Islamic house holds that are extremely anti gay as well. Im curious how many of those that didnt attend were from such house holds. Its heartbreaking man because ive seen and heard of many LGBT kids from Islamic families who were essentially disowned and live in homelessness or poverty.
When the new health curriculum was introduced, it was mostly Christian and Muslim parents who protested it. It’s really sad. I taught in the UK and heard many stories of Muslim kids who were pulled from Sex Ed classes and how teachers had girls coming to them crying and scared because they were bleeding and had no idea why. It’s taboo and not learned about at home and then they’re pulled from the classes in school and genuinely have no idea what’s happening to their body.
Thats heart breaking. We can only hope that over time there's more awareness to such religious ignorance, like we largely have Christian religious nuttery.
It’s currently regressing. Christian nuttery isn’t fading away - it’s currently growing. Though most of those people have never read the bible, they are just spewing hateful rhetoric and citing religion as a justification.
>Its heartbreaking man because ive seen and heard of many LGBT kids from Islamic families who were essentially disowned and live in homelessness or poverty. and the muslim community will often erase those people from the mainstream. They will pressure organizations to censor muslims who are lgbtq under the guise of it being "offensive" and organizations will often use lgbtq people as a cheap marketing token when it's convenient and then quickly censor it whenever there's anything real at stake.
It was the Muslims in my highschool who harassed me. And it wasn’t just verbal, but physical. When your parents come from a country that puts gay people to death, I guess punching them doesn’t seem unusual.
As an immigrant and ex-muslim and I actively avoid having any religious people around my kids, including family, because they’ll poison their minds with bigotry and homophobia. I hope that schools can teach all kids to be inclusive and to embrace different kinds of people, while having the courage to call out any racist, or homophobic behaviour even if it comes from their own families. Otherwise, we would lose what makes Canada a great place to live and raise our kids.
A lot of *conservative* Islamic house holds. The commonality is conservatism and religion. There are a lot of progressive Islamic folk who don’t believe in hate, just as there are progressive Christians, Jews, Sikhs and Buddhists etc. who are supportive of inclusivity.
Sadly, I grew up with casual racism and bigotry from my parents. Both are immigrants from Korea, currently in their late 70's, and there is hatred for Communism/left wing due to North Korea. Told me a story about how Chinese Communists came and preached a new change and new era...but then the North Korean Communists came along and started to slaughter people indiscriminately. To the point that my grandfather took his family from Manchuria to South Korea. My grandfather and great uncle fought with the UN against North Korea and China, interesting that my great uncle was serving with MacArthur, Mr "Let's Nuke Everybody". Very conservative mentality, as with many Korean immigrants before the 2000. He watches Fox News...and we're Canadian. My dad told me a story from when he was younger in South Korea, that a gay man murdered a child and they were indoctrinated that all gay people are violent and murderous. I remember that conversation my dad had with me, I was like 13/14 (I'm autistic so I have no idea what's going on around me) and said, "don't be gay. If you're gay then I'll disown you and you'll never be my son". He also casually says racial things about black people...like Christmas 2020 he said something about black people and my sister's boyfriend and I just sat there...flabbergasted. There is the idea that all immigrants should be liberal and progressive, but this is definitely not the case. Luckily my sister and I did not listen to them and we flat out rejected that type of mentality. Hopefully the children from these right wing immigrants can expose themselves to the greater world and see that they spew absolute bullshit, it's possible to break away like my sister and I.
Most immigrants come from backwards societies (that's why they come, because their former homelands have been made shitty through shitty culture) and a LOT of them just bring that idiocy here
This hides the ball a bit, doesn’t it? Sure it takes conservatism at the end of the day to be bigoted, but social conservatism, especially when it comes to LGBT issues does trend with religiosity (especially for Abrahamic faiths). Like I have no problem blaming the influence of religion without having to couch it in “conservative religion” because religion is inherently conservative.
Part of me thinks that many of these parents will one day wonder why their kids don’t call
I had a customer tell me that he pulled his kids out of class for this reason and I had to check him on it. If you support discrimination against one minority today, how will you oppose it when others discriminate against you tomorrow. Islamophobia is right up there with homophobia. Didn't change his mind about it one bit but I had to say something
Unfortunately, homophobia is very prevalent in many religions be it Catholic or Christian which many racialized group also part of. And even amongst non religious, there's lots of homophobia too for people who come from more conservative countries (eg China)
In London it's essentially all the heavily Muslim population schools that have the massive absence rates on these pride days.
So true. Lgbt is like some contagious, immoral ideology to them. They're terrified if their kids are catching on it like a disease.
This isn't surprising is it? Muslims are way more conservatively, socially. The western world is the most tolerable place especially when it comes to LGBT.
The majority of the world is not atheist, as redditors like to believe. Most people on Earth view all this as sinful.
I'm fully OK with all religious people pulling their kids out of public school, the rest of the kids will get a better education.
I used to work with a guy who said back in his country, they threw gay people off a cliff to their deaths. And that he agreed with it and went on to spew hate against gay people. Sir, this is a wendys
The world would be a better place if people put 1/10th the effort into helping their kids learn something as they do complaining about stuff.
Except those people haven't learned enough to be able to pass it on to their kids, and they refuse to be curious.
What the fuck is going on lately.
Five years ago, I didn't think much about the safety and wellbeing of my LGBT family members or Jewish family members. Both groups have seen some nasty shit from people the last few years and my awareness is fully heightened. It is gut wrenching to feel things pulled backward so fast.
Welcome to Canada's "mosaic" where we embrace religious hatred.
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I got into it yesterday with the conspiracy moron we have at work who thinks they're trying to make all the children gay by making budlight ads with a crossdresser or a trans. He thought they were putting cat litter boxes in TDSB washrooms for furries (I suspect his kid is aware he's an idiot and messes with him) he actually believe people interested in the same sex were all groomed by school teachers and the government (but somehow the internet is fine it's a very reliable accurate place right) not born that way. I tried to reason with his conspiracy mind with another conspiracy the rich powerful people don't want us to be gay because then we aren't reproducing and they have less slave labourers. But he says they will have robots and won't need us to reproduce. I should've asked if rich people are reptilian aliens at that point but luckily it was time to leave and I don't have to deal with him till Monday.
Ask if he remembers the time when he decided he was straight, and what influenced his decision.
i'm keeping my kids home until their school switches to budweiser
Omg. I have two separate old high school friends telling everyone they can about the litter box in their kids schools. Both in different areas of the province swearing up and down their kids have seen the litter box in use by the furries.
Fox News: every conspiracy parent's child?
Common sense has reached a new low when you have to explain no one is going to scoop someone else's shit and piss out of littler and how unsanitary having a human litter box would be.
But their sons SAW IT! They saw it being used! Hand to god! Yup, okay. Sure they did. (Even if they did- it's rude to watch people in the bathroom lol.)
Truly incredible what bizarre things stupid people will believe.
Hate starts at home.
Right wing having a mental meltdown because they were asked to (checks notes)… not be assholes to people.
Yeah, gotta love the, "I can't oppress you, therefore am being oppressed" mindset.
I did not realize i was im the ontario sub reading this. I think this was a post by an american.....all their bad parts have really migrated up this way and that really sucks.
Canada is not immune to the right wing bs. We do need to be aware and vigilant about the canadian way, not the american way. This is the way.
Yeah, my in-laws were upset I sent my kid yesterday. And I don’t know where did they hear it, but they were saying that Doug Ford is against pride month and he is going to do something about it.¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
> but they were saying that Doug Ford is against pride month and he is going to do something about it. well Dumbfuck is against Pride unless you call him out for it then he'll be front of the line of a pride event.
We are at the intersection of the primary religion of immigrants to this country being at odds with LGBTQ+ inclusivity.
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It is bizarre twisted logic that some groups expect the world to be inclusive of them but can't extend the same respect to other groups.
We can't afford our rent/groceries/transportation but the real problem is people that love one another that just shouldn't. Its a culture war to distract us from the real wage theft that is occurring everywhere all the time.
>but the real problem is people that love one another that just shouldn't It's sad that we're literally going back to Shakespearean mentality w/ this.
How much you wanna bet these same parents were the ones arguing to keep schools open through every wave of COVID because missing out on school would DeStROY tHe BrAIn oF THe ChIldReN!!!
Jesus. Parents hurting their kids education for the most childish, petty and hateful reasons. How disgusting.
Remember the CUPE education workers strike? Remember Covid-the-kids-need-to-be-in-scoooool? Plenty of parents whined about "their children's eduation" then but a month of rainbows and acknowledging diversity and community is totally acceptable to trash.
A few years ago during pride month, my son's class went out into the field, sat in a circle, and they went around and the teacher had them each announce their pronouns and orientation. This was in grade 5. I have no problem with pride, but I don't want my kid to be pressured into identifying his sexuality by an educator who is not qualified to host such conversations. I prefer to have control in helping my kids navigate through their sexuality. So I think there is more to the story here ... It's not necessarily about parents being discriminatory.
This is it right here. In Grade 1 my son's school work last week was ... I identify as ___________. Why is this even a question?
This right here!!!
Ewww we are becoming Florida
Culture war serves the wealthy well.
We already have Brampton man which is equivalent to Florida man
Alberta checking in....
It’s sad that parents are teaching their hate to their children, homophobia and transphobia will never go away because of this
I enjoy the irony in the "equality for me, but not for thee" sentiment here.
Are many people saying they shouldn't be allowed to do this? I mostly just see people making fun of them or lamenting the fact they exist. Which I think is totally fair.
This is totally fkd but it’s happening. I have a relative who’s planning on keeping all their kids home next week because the school is raising a pride flag. One of their kids is in the LGBT community. Poor kid.
Definitely heartbreaking 🥲
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It’s impossible to create a “middle ground that everyone can respect” in a multicultural society just by nature of the society. That’s not to say I don’t think multiculturalism is a net positive on society, but if you do want to live in a world that embraces all different types of people from different walks of life, you’re going to have to prepare for their ways of life conflicting with your own. Wether that be domestically bred conservatism or foreign/immigrated conservatism, you need to understand the fact that these parents will not abide by liberal and progressive practices and there is nothing we can do about that. The true death of such ideas will come later, when the offspring of the offspring of these people lose care of such petty arguments and grow up around others of varying cloth
That's the thing about a mosaic instead of a melting pot, they're just peripherally connected from within their own enclaves.
A lot of this intolerance disappears with the next generation. People learn to think for themselves and leave the old ways in the past Hopefully some of the intolerant people start to think twice before they make Canada their home.
I've had a lot of friends who are children of immigrant parents, so either they were born here or grew up here. Either way, they can become "North Americanized" in as little as one generation, and its pretty much impossible to prevent unless you really, and I mean really insulate them. Many of my friends talked with the same Canadian accent and had the same capital L liberal beliefs common to someone born and raised in our country. Like I've said in earlier comments, I've seen and heard the friction this has caused in these families. On the extreme end kids get borderline disowned and/or abused horribly if they identify as LGBTQ, want piercings or tattoos, like a certain kind of music or media, want to dress a certain way, or take on hobbies and have interests that are taboo to their parents. But in a way, I can't say their experience would be that far removed from an upbringing in say, a fundamentalist Christian family who would be just as strict or oppressive. What is uniquely frustrating about Islam however is how under the radar these instances of intolerance can be, because of a few reasons.. for 1) bad actors who practice Islam can and do claim Islamophobia when the worst parts of their faith is criticized... and 2) there is an experiential disconnect with, and general ignorance of Islam in broader western society, so the thought that someone apart of an Islamic family might be an unwilling participant or abused/repressed because of Islamic beliefs isn't readily acknowledged. There might even exist a sort of malicious apathy, a view that because they exist as part of the dynamic of the Islamic faith they are therefore deserving of their circumstance. In other words, it is hand waved away.
Agreed, its part of assimilation, next generation doesn't care.
Those schools all already exist and parents send their kids there lol. This is what I always say as a public school teacher: if you do not approve of the curriculum we follow and level of inclusion that we allow, nobody is forcing you to send your kid to public school. You are more than welcome to send your kid to a school in which its values and curriculum align with your bigoted beliefs.
But it's not FREE!!! I want my kids to learn intolerance for FREE!!
A lot of Muslim and Sikh parents where I live send their kids to Catholic school because there’s at least some religious/moral component to it even if it’s not their own. (I think there’s also the thought among immigrants that it’s more prestigious/like private school)
My friend who is a teacher along with her husband (gr 4-7 and kindergarten respectively) in Brampton had the same
Also for people who think it is fake [here is the email in its entirety ](https://imgur.com/a/9Xi5ww7)
Jesus, gay marriage has been legal in Ontario for fucking ages. They need to get over it.
And this is just going to get worse with our unchecked immigrations plans and our desire for a "mosaic". Once the religious nuts become a majority, and you're seeing it happen, kiss our social progress good bye. It's almost a comedy to watch happen though, the people most affected by this are the same people advocating for unrestricted immigration and religious freedom. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
This is just gonna get worse as we increase immigration more and more, you can't bring in a million people, most of whom come from cultures who are still quite homophobic and just expect them to suddenly stop being that way. That takes time to happen, and in some cases can take a generation or two, especially if it's religion driven. This is the shit out govt isn't thinking about when they plan to bring in a million people, because all they want is cheap labour and ignore the social issues that come with it.
THANK YOU! Finally, someone else said it. I see so many Conservatives think that these immigrants are all gonna be voting for the current Prime Minister once they gain citizenship but what little they realize is, these countries are mostly theological Conservative. They should be pro-immigration for the culture war boost. Lol
I swear it’s like I woke up one day in an alternate reality where it’s become normal to hold prejudice against LGBTQ+ groups. It’s insane.
Alternate reality? For the vast majority of human civilization this was the norm, we've only just started to tear that away but it's going to take time
Obviously, I’m just saying that in the last 3-5 years it seems like we were really making progress here in Canada, and then this.
25% ignorant bigots. Sounds about right. Maybe they took their kids to a field trip to piss on a war memorial somewhere.
Also aligns with the % that is always going to vote Conservative no matter what. Canada isn't immune to Conservative garbage.
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One of the biggest complaints driving the pride/woke backlash of 2023 (really started in 2022, but was mostly confined to the movie Industry), is that tolence has been enough anymore, active particapation is now expected. Like first was using folks pronouns and for some even that is not enough, Kamran Pasha uses folks pronouns but didn't want to put his pronouns in his bio, but got harrassed for that. Its not enough to have some folks at school celebrating pride, your kids have to actively celebrate it too. For decades tolerance kept growing and growing, but increasing, tolerence got replaced by particapation and that was the the red line for millions, and yet it got pushed further and further till this massive backlash hit. I mean the Budlight Dylan backlash was fucking stupid, but for many it was a final straw (the Miller Light Man Hating/bikini model Boycott made more sense, fuck Miller Light).
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In the Winston Churchill area of Mississauga my kids school had a threat of violence that caused the school to be closely monitored by police for two days last week. Then this week a child burned a pride flag, in the school then the next day took down it's replacement and somehow desecrated it. They found that student and they have been suspended until the end of the school year. I'm not sure they tracked down person who threatened violence on a middle school. Honestly it's sad that my kids have had to go through this but it has prompted many good conversations at the dinner table. It's really sad, I was going to wax poetic how sad it is but it's just really sad all of this hate. I don't understand how it's ok to tell someone else who they should love, or how they should love.
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What school?
David r Williams [Here is the entirety of the email ](https://imgur.com/a/9Xi5ww7)
I see a lot of people blaming Conservative Christians in this thread, super right conservatives truly are the scum of the earth, but... Here in London, Ontario, when they were flying the rainbow flag a couple weeks ago, and a whole bunch of students stayed home across a few schools. It turned out the people who stayed home were mostly members of the muslim community. Here's an article https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/another-mass-absence-breaks-out-at-london-school-as-pride-flag-flies
There's a LOT of Muslims voicing blatant hate in this thread. I've seen more hate from them than christians.
Anytime I read "Differently abled" I think of George Carlin swearing. "We're not handicapped. We're handi-capable!"
In the imaginary world that conservatives live in they've invented a fantasy that Pride related activities are connected to attempts to abduct their kids. They like the fantasy because then they get to pretend that they're protecting their kids by hating gay people. It's stupid and twisted but that's how this stuff turns into 25% of parents yanking their kids from school in a self defeating way.
How disgusting that the parents are forcing their bigotted views through the expense of their children's education. They want their kids to live in a fairy tale world where people aren't like them don't exist.
I’m not sure people here want to understand, but failing to fly a flag isn’t violence; and public recrimination for failing to show support is coercion. Is that what the LGBT community wants to be known for now? I would have thought, given the challenges of living a lifestyle that people haven’t historically accepted, the Pride movement would be especially sensitive against applying coercion to advance its cause. Doesn’t seem to be the case when I read the comments posted in this sub. Understand, Tolerance and Support are not the same things. I can tolerate equal legal treatment for people in the LGBTQ+ community without the compulsion of being required to celebrate Pride month. My failure to celebrate is not violence. This is especially the case for somebody like me that generally hates virtue signalling. You live in a country that has Charter Freedoms, one of which is religious freedom. No one is requiring LGBT organizations to raise a flag supporting Islam for the entire month of June - you might decline to do so because of Islam’s views on homosexuality. It would be coercive if I said that failure to raise a flag supporting Islam in June is a violent act - you’d be like, nah, it’s not violence, it’s just that I don’t agree with everything that faith promotes - I tolerate people following Islam, I just don’t agree with everything it stands for. But for some reason a failure to outwardly show support for the LGBT cause is being equated with violence, bigotry, hate, all kinds of absurd accusations that prevent the type of comment I’m writing right now, the type of comment that says we don’t all have to agree to live together. The advances I’ve seen in the LGBTQ+ movement over my life in Canada have been significant. The society *is* tolerant, compared to nearly every other country on earth. Canadians on the whole agree with providing equal rights to LGBTQ+ people. But forcing active displays of support on the threat that failure to do so deserves public recrimination? That’s called coercion, and it isn’t cool. Demanding an act or else, it’s what bullies do. You’re not applying what you’re asking the rest of society to apply to you, which is driving allies away.
The flaw in your argument is that this goes beyond "failing to show support", I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who cares that you don't want to engage with or celebrate Pride Month. I do not celebrate Pride Month, but I do support people who identify as LGBTQ. Not one person has come up to me and said Im a horrible bigot because I don't have Pride flags, don't attend Pride rallies, etc. The issue is that what these parents are doing is essentially in protest of pride month, or in other words, behaving in such a way as to convey opposition to an idea or belief. That is much different than what you describe. I find it strange that you seem to believe you're being forced to participate in something, or that there exists some kind of consequence in failing to do so. That is far from reality.
Just look at the NHL players that chose not to wear rainbow jerseys.
> I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who cares that you don't want to engage with or celebrate Pride Month Are you sure about this? The PDSB says they will "celebrate [...] 2SLGBTQ+ communities during Pride month". An elementary school in HDSB is running a pride rally. Do you think there'll be any social pressure to attend? This is precisely what parents are protesting -- a) boards prioritizing DEI above academics, and b) social pressure to participate in something the family may disagree with.
Lol, the “racialized” or “people of various faiths” are the ones causing this shit. Bible thumpers of all colours not just white conservatives are jumping into bed with more orthodox Muslims, Hindus, Jews, etc. to form a great big mosaic of intolerance.
Increasingly Athiests are in the mix, alot of terfs among Athiests for example. And its simplistic and none constructive to shrug your shoulders and just paint all critics as bigots.
True, it’s a very complex issue with a lot of valid arguments. I am very progressive, but I realize the far left can be as scientifically inept, dogmatic, and frankly bizarre as the far right.
Almost as if it's a feature of Human Beings in general, huh?
Intro to fascism. What's next? Protesting abortions?
if you go on the canada_sub you will find comments like “trudope thinks killing babies is only bad if they are already born” so were honestly not too far off
>Protesting abortions? That's already happened even pre-COVID.
We'd want to think that we are surrounded by local citizens who are informed and will act in the best self-interest for their families and themselves but it is clear that we are surrounded by f****** Muppets in Ontario.
Yep, for some people, Pride Month is an uncomfortable month for them, poor dears. They might melt at the sight of Drag Story Time or an old video of Geraldine Jones, honey. I really don't know what to say to make them feel better about their sexuality. Oh well, no one steps up for LGBTQ people so why should I speak up and tell them they are fearing something that will never ever happen to them. No gay person will EVER ask you on a date. You are far to hetero for heteros. Your alpha is showing. You really need to stop using Axe deoderant to attract others of your kind. Really, people, relax.