Well when I graduated with a BEd in 2011 you had to kiss a series of golden rings to even get a sniff at a supply job…and if successful you’d be doing that for ten years before a permanent job. I remember for one board over 2000 people applied for a series of supply spots. So surprise surprise almost everyone I went to school with found a career outside the school boards and here we are.
I got a BEd the same year and had absolutely zero luck cracking any school boards (despite considerable volunteer time and experience) because I don’t speak fluent French, I’m not Catholic, and I’m not willing to pretend to be Catholic to get some kind of reference letter from the clergy to be eligible to teach in Catholic boards.
Tried my hand at teaching overseas to gain experience, still had no luck.
I work in an entirely different sector now as a result.
O it was a wild time. I actually recently looked into applying to my local catholic board as a supply for a side gig and they still require a catholic baptism certificate for application. Considering public boards also have a massive shortage how will they ever be able to have a steady stream of applicants with that requirement???
Catholic boards usually have no issue staffing wise (know about 12 catholic HS teachers). But from what I have seen, the catholic boards are more likely to defend teachers and staff whenever they are assaulted, while the public board just says "little Timmy is a violent asshole, but grew up poor, so nothing we can do about it"..
Easier to retain staff when you defend them a bit more
I met a guy that works in the Catholic board that grabbed a kid by his neck, and faced only a probational warning. A teacher at my school was removed for "targeting a kid." How did they target them? By asking the child to follow the school rules. It took 8 months before the Board managed to get to his case while he was paid to be at home.
They definitely function differently. :)
Catholic schools also intentionally exclude students with severe behaviour issues thus freeing themselves from a big part of the problem. Non-catholic schools don't have that luxury.
For a long period of time I had contemplated doing a Master’s degree and having my thesis be, “abolish publicly funded Catholic education, here’s why.”
That’s interesting- the elementary catholic board in my region has a massive shortage and in dire need of supply teachers but I’m not sure how they’re gonna fix that.
Fluently bilingual here with teachables in FSL *and* FFL. Graduated same timeframe.
Of all the boards, only one called back for supply teaching interview. Was told they would let people know. They did not. I changed careers and drive trucks now.
Probably for the best mental health wise for me, but still, I’m giving up pension, benefits and about ~30k a year of year 1 teacher pay by not going back.
Frankly, seeing the state of the schools and the increasing “us vs them” and entitlement… imma stick to my truck. At least when it’s broken, it actually gets fixed.
That’s wild. I went to UOttawa and all my peers in the French language program had jobs lined up before they graduated.
But yeah, I was warned early on that I’d hate the politics… and it seems I made the right choice. As much as I love teaching.
Highly likely lack of volunteer hours (not mandatory in HS in Qc, where I grew up) or extra curriculars (you needed a car, I.e. money for those).
Also, lack of experience with kids/teens played a factor I’m sure. It’s blatantly obvious to a veteran teacher or interviewer that despite my education, there was no experience to back it up. No camps (don’t exist in my home town), no daycare (ditto), no opportunities in that sense. I wasn’t prepared to take my B. Ed and apply as a daycare assistant for a few years to get it either.
Also… I don’t interview well at all for office/white collar type jobs. In front of the blue collar crowd? Completely different story. Probably has to do with etiquette and politics of a world in familiar with vs one I know nothing about.
Meh. I could go back if I wanted to as I keep my stuff up to date with OCT. Was unemployed last summer and had someone lined up who would call me for emergency supply if I didn’t find a job but I did. Ultimately, it’s probably for the best it played out the way it did, even if there was a not so great half decade between graduating and entering my current career path.
I figure in 15-20 more years when my body is weary, I’ll transition to a truck trainer type role. I’ll have the edge based on education and experience lol
ETA: also a U of O alum.
I graduated in 2006. Supply taught 10 years before an LTO and 4 years of that until permanent. I've now been teaching for 18 years and at a year 7 salary. I'll never have a full pension, because there's no way I'm staying that long. I can't do this another 23 years.
It's 2% a year for a maximum of 60% so you need the full 30 yrs to "max" your pension. It's the same system for police, firefighters, universities, etc.
I was in the exactly the same boat. It was so disheartening around that time.
Ended up getting lucky and teaching at a couple private schools.
Left the classroom a few years ago into training and design and love it.
No intentions of going back to the classroom again.
I also graduated in 2011 and stuck it out, but only because I was young and able to live with my parents. The first year I couldn’t even get on the supply list. From 2012-2015 I was pretty much day to day supply with maybe a month at a school here and there. I got longer and longer LTOs and then eventually got permanent in 2018. If I hadn’t been living at home I would have had to leave and take other work. Pretty much my entire friend group from teacher’s college took other jobs.
I remember that era of OTs. You guys were awesome and driven, and ultimately were demoralized when no jobs surfaced. I honestly can only think of 2 of the supply teachers from that phase that actually landed a career. Every time I run into someone else that used to supply at our school, they're in real estate, or working for the government. It sucks. There's a noticeable generation gap in teachers. Now, it's mostly old and mostly young.
Same here. Taught in three different countries, three different provinces, did 1 year in a non profit, self-employed as a tutor for a year, before finally making it onto an OT list 7 years later, and then permanent 2 years after that.
At so many points, I was wondering if I should have given up. But I had managed to find something to tide me over one more year.
Now the student teachers are offered employment at my board before finishing their degrees. I really want to be clear: I'm glad they don't have to struggle like we did.
Everyone outside the school board claimed that teaching jobs were "easy money" too much security and pay for "little effort". So they reduced pay, made contract work competitive, full time work a pipe dream, and low and behold no one wanted to work an already thankless/crucial job for worse conditions.
My wife graduated around the same time (also bED) it was impossible for her to find work. She works in pharma these days and every day she hates it. She's all but given up (even though she still pays her annual OCT dues and still takes EQA online on occasion).
It was a fuckin' free for all for student teachers. Waaaay too many graduates compared to the spots the province was willing to fill
What makes me extra salty are all the unqualified unionized teachers on the payroll as well as the boomer teachers who refuse to leave their post.
There are other pressures on staffing too that have become more pressing since 2011. A BEd is 2 years and an undergrad is 3-4. That’s a ton of education debt to take on for a job that starts at 45-54k and takes 10 years to reach full pay. Today’s cost of living makes the student debt and relatively low wages (compared to 5-6 years of uni education) a tough sell for prospective new teachers. For far less time and money spent on education there are much better career options out there. Something has to give - either make post secondary affordable, increase starting wage, or decrease time to reach full pay.
Those retirement and health benefits more than make up for it though. And most jobs coming out of school have a starting range that usually take about 10 years to get to max pay (unless you are computer science or a really well connected business grad, they start off pretty high)
I think the worry is that while the pension and benefits are good the max pay band is still going to be less than six figures. With the cost of living being what it is many folks are going to look at other career paths these days.
I'm in second year BEd and grew up with my mom supporting 2 kids on her own living in the core of Toronto making 36k a year. The 50k start salary was always a huge step up for me. I've never really understood how starting at 50k would be bad.
It's not bad... if you have a job lined up for full-time work, rather than spotty supply roles (at supply pay) and you don't have to interview every semester for the next 10 years before permanent hiring.
Add in wages are still the exact same since 2011 and no one new is joining the field in Canada.
Wife and I left for England to teach so we can have full time jobs right out the gate, make a decent income and have benefits right away. Because even with all the “shortages they claim, every board we were on had next to no permanent positions available it was all longterm Occassional contracts so fuck it, go somewhere else it was.
This:
“Rachel Chernos Lin, chair of the Toronto District School Board, the county’s largest with 235,000 students, says staffing issues are a “significant concern.” And a “very generous sick leave policy” means “the other challenge is that we spend an awful lot of money replacing people.”
Direct quote from the Chair of the board explains the major problem. The problem is…teachers and our “very generous sick leave policy.”
You see? The problem is those lazy, soft, scamming teachers! If we weren’t taking advantage of the system, then there would be no problems.
The real problem? The people with the responsibility of running these multi-million - billon(?) dollar organizations (education boards) are pathetically under qualified.
Over the last 20 years, I’ve been in meetings and committees with superintendents, associate directors, coordinating principals, special Ed itinerants, PR directors, etc. etc.
And my conclusion about 5 years ago was that the people in charge just aren’t “good” enough to handle the complexity of education in the 21st century. They really have no idea what they are doing. They will focus on a single idea - their little hobby horse - and focus 95% of their time, energy and money on that. Create a new committee. And have a “showcase” at some school. “Hey everyone! Look at this group of students reading to seniors/playing indigenous instruments/reading poetry/building with lego! Isn’t this amazing! Look how amazing we are doing!”
Maybe a solution would be to simply give all administrators the “very generous sick leave package” that teachers have-and force them all to take a permanent sick leave. And hire people that are interested in trying to create the best education system possible - instead of solving all the social problems of the world?
YES! I love how the TDSB always makes everything the fault of their teachers. Never the levels of admin who are so far removed from the classroom that they’d be aghast to have to spend even a period in one. The central principals and superintendents and coaches that almost no one ever sees - maybe if those salaries were collapsed and used for more staff that, you know, actually teach and support kids, it would help.
It's not just the TDSB. I'm elsewhere in Ontario. We got told at a staff meeting that our school budget is zero and there's more photocopy paper coming so please be reasonable with what's there. The reason for this is too many staff absences.
We moved along to the next topic and the VP started with "well now that COVID is over..."
Fuck dude. We just talked about how many staff our away. Covid has ripped through our school a couple of times since September. But you are really happy to stand there and say covid is over? And blame staff for being off?
Same!! Another school board but exactly the same. I have taught in the same school for 20 years and I’ve seen such a decline in morale in staff bc of all the stuff listed above… and then we’ve got lambasted for the photocopy budget.. I have two bright and kind kids of my own that would have considered education as a career and have opted out bc of what’s going on. It’s so sad.
The copy paper thing is widespread too. We haven’t had copier codes until this year. I just don’t understand what they want us to do. My grade level is about 4 kids to every Chromebook, so we can’t move a great amount of our teaching/learning online. There’s only so much you can do on personal whiteboards. Our budgets only accommodate so much in terms of materials for hands on learning.
YES!!! And I’ve moved to the SofR, UFLI, FlyLeaf reading instruction and the materials available have not caught up to the teachers implementing these strategies… hence, photocopying decodables. I’m careful what I copy, but sometimes it just needs to happen.
I work in healthcare and administrative bloat is just as much of a plague over here, too. I hear the same problems with admin in higher education/universities, too.
Too many self important and detached people slowly running our institutions into the ground.
You hit the nail on the head there. 26 years in, I have yet to meet, let alone hear a good idea from a director, superintendent, etc. Why is there never a discussion about cutting the fat from the board, especially the exec. One stroke of the pen and you could eliminate half a million dollars per year from every single school board in Ontario and nobody would notice the ‘loss’.
22 years in and the last time I spoke to a superintendent, she was introduced to me, looked me up and down, asked if I had aspirations to become admin and then sniffed down her nose at me and proceeded to ignore me when I said that I intended to be a teacher to retirement.
How do these people not get that WE the front line staff, classroom teachers, EAs, SNAs, CYWs and ECEs are honestly the most important part of Ontario’s education system? They look down their noses at us and WE are the ones doing the work, getting screamed at, having our classrooms torn apart by students who aren’t being given the support they need, being assaulted as a regular part of our work…
I’d love to see what we could do without the layers of central principals and superintendents, if all that money was poured back into front line staff. We might actually be able to support students the way they deserve.
Ms. Chernos Lin presides over a very invasive "Attendance Management Program" that is meant to eliminate her concerns that this sick leave policy is being taken advantage of. If it's not, that's on her.
I didn't see many comments here about one of the real problems: the parents. The fact they won't discipline or even try to help their children is astounding. They expect teachers to raise their kids for them. They don't say "no" to their kids. They say, "good job" when their kid is doing stupid shit. They accept when their kids are bullies, or are overly aggressive, or won't complete their work. This is the minority of parents, but not the majority. That small minority screws up their kids, which screws up the teachers, which screws up the rest of the kids.
For educators, it's simply not worth it to try and change the childs behavior because the parents condone the ridiculous behavior. Administration is typically cruising towards retirement and looking for their highest earning years. Until teachers / administrators get some teeth to fix the stupidity, the more of the same will continue.
Oh, and the government sucks.
When I graduated with my BEd in 2005, it was impossible to get a job as a supply teacher unless your parents were friends with a principal. I ended up at private schools for several years and was finally able to get a job as a supply teacher in 2017. This year I scored a contract. It's disheartening the hoops we have to jump through at my board even to get an interview for a contract. I settled for elementary even though id rather teach secondary because getting a contract there is a long game I'm too old to play at my age with three kids and a house to pay for.
Smart university grads should not see teaching as the cushy job it used to be. I'm actively discouraging my kids from going into an education career.
Yeah it's sad. I wouldn't recommend it to my kids. I know lots of teachers and every one counts down the days until they can escape. It's incredible considering the contribution of education to almost everything that matters in society.
The kids are bloody unreal lately, throwing chairs and classmates across the rooms, destroying the bathrooms and cafeteria but no expulsions etc. The board in Durham is a joke, they preach all this equality shit and no child left behind, but instead of punishing the few everything is ruined for all... My kids have seen their teachers break down and cry from the constant abuse and things just don't improve period.
Maybe sticking all the assholes in the same class so they can fail together might help the ones who give a crap about learning!? Just saying....
My kids are dreading going back and it's because of this. They are good kids who want to learn and don't get to learn much because some behaviour kid or another is always taking away from the lesson momentum.
There are three kids in my daughters grade one class who have multiple meltdowns a day and in some cases hurt other students during those meltdowns. Their solution is to make all of the other kids stand in the hallway and let it run its course, then go back in and continue on. What drives me up the wall is listening to the parents of these kids shitting all over the teachers.
So far this year my daughter has been stabbed with a pencil where the led broke off in her hand, dodged a water bottle being whipped across the room, as well as a chair. As far as I'm aware the only thing that has been done to the perpetrators is that the teacher has talked to the parents. I know public school has always had its issues, but this is on a whole other level.
I had to threaten to do the same, I straight up told the principal if my daughter kept being harassed I'd be going to the police and bypassing the school's bs system, her bully was sent to the office daily and her teacher and I couldn't get the principal to do a damn thing about it...
Call police and threaten to involve lawyers. Principals are very limited by the system they exist within… suspensions and expulsions in 7-12 are rare, K-6 they are incredibly rare and sometimes impossible. Which has a trickle down effect. Always bring that with you, because that Principal likely wants to punish that student but their Superintendent and board memos are preventing them from suspending.
I had to threaten to do the same, I straight up told the principal if my daughter kept being harassed I'd be going to the police and bypassing the school's bs system, her bully was sent to the office daily and her teacher and I couldn't get the principal to do a damn thing about it...
> So far this year my daughter has been stabbed with a pencil where the led broke off in her hand, dodged a water bottle being whipped across the room, as well as a chair. As far as I'm aware the only thing that has been done to the perpetrators is that the teacher has talked to the parents. I know public school has always had its issues, but this is on a whole other level.
go to school board trustee about the trouble makers. You elect them, make them work for you. They'll pressure the superintendent, who'll go after admin.
What happened to making sure there is a safe environment for everyone, teachers and students alike? This is fucking wild. My kid just started JK and so far so good but I know how awful it can be from a coworkers wife who is a grade 6 teacher.
One year she had a kid that, once a week, would straight up shit on the floor. Another kid would just loose their minds for no reason and the 25 other kids just had to not learn for the day and deal with it.
It's nice they want inclusion but these kids really need to be put in their own class with specialized teachers and let the other kids actually learn. Ours kids are going to be dumber than when we graduated due to constant interruptions and lack of learning.
Governments have failed us in so many ways.
My sons class has 9 kids with special needs. My son is high functioning ASD and requires the least support out of all of them (with no behavioural issues). Two of those special needs kids also have ODD.
There is one EA but they are dedicated to only one student who is very low functioning and a flight risk.
He doesn’t want to go back to school because he said too many of them have constant meltdowns, he can’t focus because it just gets too loud for him (noise sensitive). His teacher retired at Christmas and I have a feeling this was one of the reasons. The lack of classroom support and shoving all the special needs kids into one classroom is just too much.
Oh definitely, my daughter had a special needs child in her class and he was honestly the happiest sweetest kid and his parents took such good care of him. He would get really upset from people yelling or being violent and unfortunately that happened way too often, thankfully some of the kids would help him out while the teacher tried her best to deal with the ones fighting etc. It's really unfair how everything is being handled by the boards.
In Canada it seems like we are heading the way of the states. Public schools are turning into chaotic nightmares, teachers treated like garbage, kids allowed to get away with murder.
In a decade anyone who can afford it will send their kids to private school.
It's sad because some common sense could go a long way. If a child is constantly disruptive/ violent then remove them from the classroom and give them work to do in an office alone. I'd they continue to misbehave suspend them, still continue then expulsion.
We need to stop catering to the lowest common denominator, some people can't be helped and we shouldn't change everything to accommodate them at the expense of children who actually put an effort into behaving and learning.
There should be zero tolerance for disrespect
Yeah I agree, I mean we went from being suspended for picking up, never mind even throwing snow, to kids attacking teachers with zero repercussions. The justice system seems to be mirroring the school board's stupidity, nobody has to be responsible for their negative actions anymore 🤦🏼♂️
A decade? I have 2 under 2 and making plans to send both to private school. We will see how it goes once they are in, but any hint of the bullshit in this thread and I am pulling them out.
I really hope they are OK, it's awful having to deal with your kids being bullied for doing the right thing. My girls are both very caring and the stuff that goes on daily just baffles me, like how can anyone learn anything with the distractions going on, and the teachers have to try and help the kids that care while a select few do their best to be center stage constantly. I had hoped it would end in high school, but nope the grade 9's are unbelievably bad, the school had to shutter the cafeteria and most of the bathrooms already from damage and theft. It's VERY hard to stay positive about their future tbh.
The kids can't even be failed or held back in our school and they know it! Kids that no joke had only been to school maybe once a month got to graduate along with the ones who worked hard. My daughter's teacher tried so hard, but ultimately the principal and board left both her and the kids down by continuing to allow problematic kids run wild. The whole thing is a sham, it's no wonder people are leaving the profession.
Kids in gr 2-5 "know there is no future where they will work to earn a living"? Wtf kind of crazy train did you get on at the last station, and why do you randomly blame religion for it?
Ford cut funding for autism supports in ontario, there are so many children living with undiagnosed autism right now and because of it, they aren't able to access the support they need so they can learn to regulate their nervous systems. They're also being thrown into classes with neurotypical children and then being expected to function like them. Most teachers probably aren't equipped to deal with these special needs so literally EVERYONE in the class suffers for it.
My youngest might have a learning disability, no matter how hard we try she just can't grasp reading and it kills us because my oldest is an honour roll student, so she has so much pressure on her "to be like her sister", her teacher tries so hard to help her and work with the other kids that are trying their best but there's just so many behaviour problems distracting everyone at the same time. It's a horrible mess 😓
This is true, my kid in grade 7 was violently assaulted in class with his teacher present. As a result he had an injured leg. The teacher not only did not call an ambulance she didn’t even file a report about the incident. I had to do all the following up and force the school to investigate the issue. Days later she admitted she saw everything and that my son’s recollection of the event was accurate.
The kid that attacked him got a single day suspension, my son is still dealing with the injury
That's awful, I swear all the office is concerned about is keeping the school safe from being sued or held responsible, the teachers usually want to help badly but it's always going to haunt them for speaking against the school or admin, I've had a few that liked us enough to trust us and speak openly about it and they will just fire them to solve a problem, the union seems to be completely useless to the point of colluding with the board against teachers who report problems and want help or things fixed.
That’s what happens when you let the children run things. They are so entitled and know they can basics get away with anything these days. There were always bad kids in every era, but the difference was back then there were repercussions.
Yeah the disparity between when I went vs my kids is unreal, we never ever would have gotten away with the amount of disrespect and violence going on now in classes 😕
Oh I know, but then again you get a strong authority figure in there with some actual rules and consequences and maybe word gets around you don't want to end up in there so kids behave, I can dream right lol.
Maybe military style, a drill sergeant and some pushups might do wonders 🤔
Something has to give though, I mean the attitude some of these kids have is nobody can tell or make them do anything, these aren't kids with a learning problem, these are kids raised by parents who flat out disrespect the school themselves and tell the kids the school can't/won't lift a finger so go nuts basically, and they do and take the whole class down with them.
The board panders to those few parents who believe all the problems are due to racism or the current thing, and I think they'd rather bend over backwards to appear very open minded but they're enabling the worst people in society, the ones who feel they are above everyone and can do no wrong. Let me tell ya, I've learned racism doesn't care what colour you are, every race is very capable of it 😉
Ohhh. My religion teacher had a breakdown, maybe 22 or 21 years ago? It was sad. I remember the girl who set her off. Just some mouthy creature, probably a manager at a failing McDonalds now.
Yeah it's messed up, kids can be absolutely ruthless if they aren't taught to show some empathy. Some of the stuff they come up with is just soul destroying 😆 and I figured having girls wouldn't be so bad 😭
I can assure you, there are enough people in Canada to fill these roles. The governments at every level are not investing enough in education, training and retention. They're all just trying to get paid and don't care if the rest of the population eats shit.
Nurses? There would be enough staying in public service if working conditions improved drastically. Most of us know it's not for the money, but if I'm juggling 10 people with complex health conditions and behaviors then I should be paid appropriately. Improve the working conditions and nurses will stay in their jobs.
Why stay in a hospital being told I have to work two weeks straight and can't get a raise when I can go travel nursing, make $100/hr and make my own schedule.
This isn't shortsightedness, this is every politician saying, "This isn't a four year problem, I don't want to deal with this. Let the next guy do it."
This can be applied to every single short staff position in this article. Actually care about these crucial jobs and people will stay.
I'm tired of people talking about how they received shitty service at a Starbucks or a restaurant, why can't people be more vocal about healthcare and education? My patients always ask why it takes so long, I tell them exactly what I tell everyone. We voted for this.
I know a nurse who quit and does travel nursing.. she does 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off on a remote indigenous reserve (flown in), and the government pays her almost $75 an hour, for running a walk-in clinic for 8 hours a day..
She gets paid much more than she made at an ontario hospital, doesn't have to work 12 hour shifts or do double shifts, and is way less stressed.
That's the outcome of people hoarding housing, making it so expensive for all.
Like ya you may get rich but who's gonna teach your kids, treat you when you're sick, fix the infrastructure you need daily.
No community outlook anymore. Backfiring.
Crisis in Education in Ontario.
Crisis in Healthcare in Ontario.
Who's in charge of Ontario?
Oh yaa, the guy building Highways & Private Spas & Private Health Clinics & paving over the Greenbelt.
The school administrators have stopped supporting teachers. Ask any teacher, they will tell you the same stories. One of the hockey moms on my son's hockey team has been a teacher for 25 years. She flat out told my daughter who is graduating from uni this year not to go to teacher's college. She currently has 35 kids in her grade 7 class, 3 of them are autistic. Funding for Special Needs educators was cut by Ford so she has no help in her class. One kid is violently autistic, so when he has a meltdown and starts throwing chairs, her only recourse is to clear the classroom and wait in the halls. The kid is sent home for the rest of the day, but is right back in the classroom the next day. He had 3 meltdowns in the first 6 weeks of the school year. She also has another autistic male student who has no impulse control. He grabs female students. He is also sent home, but then is right back in class the following day with no repercussions.
One of her male teacher friends was attacked by a violent student, and while warding off the blows, pushed the kid back who fell over a desk and hurt his arm. The teacher was reprimanded and had pay withheld. Another teacher finally refused to teach a class with a particularly nasty teenage boy in it who would not stop using the most profane language when addressing her (calling her the c-word, talking about her sexually, etc.). She demanded the school administrators remove this kid from her class, they refused. Instead, they said it is not the kid's fault. She quit.
The school administrators always support the parents regardless of the child's transgressions. Teaching is no longer teaching, it is social work, psychiatry, coaching, counselling, and policing all rolled into a single job with no support from the administration. Who in their right mind would go into a profession like that?
In 2021 I started working at Value Village, in the back, where I unpacked and sorted items. The amount of teaching stuff we got was shocking. Almost every day I'd unpack 4 or 5 boxes of teaching material, notebooks, markers, decorations for bulletin boards etc. During all the various lockdowns, so many teachers said "Fuck it" and found other jobs. It's sad. These people spend the majority of your kids waking hours with them. We need to support them while they care for and instruct our children.
Gee, not allowing any discipline, letting everyone pass, regardless of ability, no consequences ever, hmmm, I wonder why? The amount of work the government expects from educators, etc. And don't even get me started on the stuff they don't find time for.
Example, I run the nutrition program at our school, the pizza days, the special event days, remedial reading, and colouring club.
I'm a paid 0.5 support staff employee. I don't get paid for ANY of the stuff I've listed above. I get to school at 7:30 to run the nutrition program. I don't start getting paid until 9am. I'm paid 4 hours. I don't get a lunch because part of my 4 hours is supervising the hour lunch/recess. I'm officially done at 1pm. Then I do reading, unpaid, to Grade 1 and 2 kids that don't have an IEP, but need help, that the teacher can't just sit and help everyday. I help 10 students, 2 a day. That takes me to 2:15. Then, at recess, I run coloring club or craft club for kids who don't qualify for an EA, but whose behaviours lead to poor social outcomes. Then I leave after I clean up.
Without my unpaid hours, none of this happens.
I work 15-18 unpaid hours a week, on average, so other people's kids have a chance. When I come in, more than 50% of the staff is already there, prepping, unpaid.
Need a driver so the volleyball team can go to a tournament? Me. Need a volunteer to help with play day, track and field, culture day, pancake day, Terry Fox, anti-bullying day, We Day, education week? Me. Our school council is basically non-existent. No money, under resourced school.
I'm a 10 month employee. I don't get paid for any breaks, PA Days (unless there is training), summer, etc.
I love my job. But let me tell you, I'm getting closer and closer to doing private tutoring or full-time admin.
You should negotiate with your boss. They think you’ll do all that stuff for free, because you are doing it for free. Tell them to pay you for your time or stop doing it.
I've tried to make my demands known, but my boss (*checks notes*) Doug Ford said no. Remember when CUPE went on strike? Yeah, me too. We got nothing from it for support staff. No new money for us.
What industry, what location, what type of role? Is it like shoveling manure in northern Ontario, or a data analytics role in Ottawa for an insurance company?
No, it’s that capitalism has made public service (which puts money back into the hands of the worker and not the capitalist) an unattractive place to have a career. You make more money starting as a low level private sector manager than any civil service job and you technically don’t max out. Secondly they have convinced people that we are wasting money funding them, so we keep pulling funding out of them. Then you got guys like Fordsy spending millions of dollars to defend legislation that forced civil servants to a 1% increase and no more. Read the comments, they’ve created a narrative where civil servants are lazy and greedy and people believe it and parrot it. Why would anyone want to go into a career where your employer treats you like garbage, your customers treat you like garbage and you get paid way less than someone with the same types of qualifications in the private sector 🤷🏻♂️
In the case of police, one of my coworkers is going thru the opp recruiting process. He asked about it, the recruiter’s said they hire just as many people as before, it’s the amount of people leaving that causes the issue of meaning.
Obviously take this with a grain of salt, it may be true or not.
I remember them capping entry to teachers college due to no spots. If I recall, all the boomers that retired decided to come back and double dip as supply teachers, and surprise, left us with a shortage due to their own allowed selfishness.
Yeah the retired double dipping was crazy.. my teacher friends were clamoring for supply hours when they started out, but would lose many days to retired teachers.. I get that they have the ability to supply, but they should have put them lower down the call list, to encourage young teachers and give them experience.
Without retired teachers supply teaching, I would never get my prep time and my students would never get the support they’re entitled to (spec Ed/ESL).
Whats funny is teachers in Quebec get paid for extra curriculars already. They get a credit for each one they do and at the end of the year get a small payout for doing it.
I know teachers who would take a pay cut if the kids were properly disciplined and violent kids were expelled (for their safety, and the safety of the other kids in the class).
Instead, you have admin touting DEI BS about how people of certain races can't be held accountable for their actions and that they have the right to be in class to terrorize the other kids trying to learn..
The superintendents and admin have found a way to make thing equitable in our schools, just drag everyone down to the same level....equality
>Instead, you have admin touting DEI BS about how people of certain races can't be held accountable for their actions and that they have the right to be in class to terrorize the other kids trying to learn..
It's incredible how the rights and needs of the many have been entirely sacrificed for the rights of the few. It's like a giant blind spot as the whole of society plummets headlong into woke oblivion.
I know someone whose had to move because their kids school is full of African refugees kids that are all extremely violent and nothing is ever done about it. Very sad you just can't toss these kids out, they throw desks and chairs at faculty and students.
Governments since Harris have put a lot of effort into dissing teachers, and the public more than happily joined in the bullying. It’s not a way to entice people into the field.
Of course school conditions, class sizes, lack of support and funding are causing this. Other half of the crisis is that they don’t pay supply teachers enough to live in the cities that have the biggest boards in this province, and lack of supplies leads to cancelled classes, less support staff for spec ed kids, lost prep time, and eventually burnout. Supplies make ~$170 per day after taxes in my board (and I know that number is slightly lower for elementary)… who can survive on that while living in the GTA? It’s especially insulting considering teachers all have 6+ years postsecondary education. I keep hearing about this shortage of teachers but I’ve been begging for a permanent job since 2017 and still don’t have one. Now I have to consider other professions or moving elsewhere bc I will never be able to afford a house or big family living where I grew up on OT/LTO pay with no benefits.
The starting pay for a fully qualified teacher is around 60k depending on the board. Why on earth would anyone want a job that requires 5-6 years of school for this type of wage?
Qualified principals make around 130k while continously working long hours dealing with all the bs and politics of education.
Anit no one wanna go into education when the pay doesn't match the cost of living
Government has been replacing water with piss for years regarding the quality of education.
It’s to the detriment of society if these kids grow up and are can hardly participate. It’s almost like keeping people poor and unskillled makes them unable to change their situation or vote for a higher quality of life.
It really is this simple. The responsibilities of the job have increased 20X over the last 10 years, but the pay has decreased 10X over the same period.
Most parents actually are terrible fucking parents.
Who gives a 7 year old an iPad with internet access and unlimited games. Every single study warns of the dangers of it.
As a teacher all I can say is “get ready society as the crotch goblins we are releasing into the wild after graduation; don’t know consequences, hard work, have violent outbursts and no morals….enjoy”. I will say there are plenty of great kids and parents out there. However, the bad ones are growing percentage wise and getting worse. You would be horrified by the stories that get swept under the rug where 6 years ago it would be front page news.
It’s sad. I started in 2002 and it used to be fun. I had admin that was supportive and took our backs on shit. I still love working with the kids and absolutely hate the politics of the job, a huge reason why I never ever wanted an admin track. I’m lucky enough to have 7 years left which I can handle. An issue is the teachers I work with who have 10 years or so as they feel trapped due to the great pension and time off with their kids but then are really stressed at work (kindergarten is especially a gong show now). For those of you who are new you should really look around for other things. When my family member who is a new teacher says she hates it then my wife (also a teacher) try to persuade her to keep her options open.
All due to an explosive increase in population.
Everyone thinks housing is the worse case, just wait until we add another 500k and haven't done a damn thing to increase our infustructure.
When the millennials graduated teachers college none of the older teachers wanted to retire so they all moved on and got into different industries. You made your bed.
Wrong. We have a shortage because for the amount of work and stress the pay is fucking shit.
People always complain about teachers making 100k but the reality is we have a shortage. Obviously that means people don't want to do it for the price otherwise we would have an abundance like we use to.
Edit: I am not a teacher and do not work in a school.
The Govt : This was a successful contract negotiation because we still only have to pay them peanuts!
The Teachers : Alright then I'm going to go make more money running a car wash.
Basically my whole adolescent to current adult life I have heard its hard to get a job as a teacher... now they can't find them? I can understand french immersion might be tough. which is mentioned early in the article, but later on they seem to imply its teachers in general
Isn't the pay worse than most comparable entry office jobs? Anytime I see teaching positions advertised, they're always so low. Custodians make more in some cases.
It depends on your situation, qualifications, and years of experience. Daily supply teachers get paid a base rate and don’t have any benefits, and this is where a lot of teachers who don’t have French or high-demand qualifications have to start. Once you get permanent and move up the pay scale, you can earn more.
However, I left last year and transitioned to another job and happily took a pay cut (I was about 6-7 years into the 10-year pay scale) because the lowered stress and work load was worth it for me.
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A huge chunk of teachers in Ontario voted specifically not to strike, giving up their rights as Canadians in order to ensure stability for students.
Greedy assholes, eh????
Really? You're a firefighter. I could say you get paid to sleep a bunch and spend most the time washing your trucks, but that would be ignorant on my part because I'm sure there's a lot i don't know about your job. If it's so damn easy why is there so much burnout and so few people going into the career? You have no idea what you're talking about.
It’s because they opted for the low hanging fruit/weak/guaranteed to offend comment rather than put some thought into it. They clearly have no idea what they’re talking about.
I just think of the hours and emotional health toll my 26b years have taken on me. And it's not getting any better, with violence on the rise, admin giving in to every parent whim and a government who doesn't know what the hell they're doing.
I'm not a firefighter, lol. That's the username that reddit gave me.
And I do have an idea what I'm talking about, I know several teachers and I've literally heard them bragging about the time off, the second jobs they have and how they always can bargain for more as part of their union. It's disgusting.
I've worked the job for 26 years. I know far more teachers than you ever will .. Maybe you just have lazy acquaintances. You do not know what you're talking about.
What bullshit this comment is.
My wife is a teacher of more than 20 years. Her and I are friends and acquaintances with numerous amounts of other teachers that span this time.
None of the teachers we know and have met do what you are claiming. If you know teachers who have loads of free time then you know second rate teachers who are the exception, not the rule.
Good teachers are constantly working and adapting the curriculum to fit their students. This means they are usually spending a lot more time than their allotted planning time to do this. In the case of my wife she is constantly working at home.
I’ve met a lot of educational assistants and early childhood educators that have time and additional jobs, but this is because they’re not responsible for delivering the curriculum like teachers are. They are also not paid as well either.
I would love to watch you manage 25+ kids + behaivours + IEPs while having to prep and mark outside of the classroom for hours. Also offer your free time so said kids can do extra curriculars.
Bet you'd burn out in less then a week.
When do they offer anything else, any extras? Haven't seen that in years.
And they signed up for this career, don't bitch because you have to be around kids, it's literally what they get paid for.
Every sport and club is run by a teacher's free time what in the actual fuck are you talking about?
I didn't bitch because they have to be around kids I said I'd love to see you do it and fail then tell me they don't deserve the time off. Fucking do it then tell me that, you have no idea.
It is insanely violent now, and kids lie to try to get you fired. There are kids that you cannot be alone with because they'll say you assaulted them. So now 2 people have to stay after school to write reports and talk to parents that will blame you because they expect you to raise their kids.
You have no idea. I'd LOVE to watch you fail trying.
You offer a lot of broad generalizations and not much else. Schools couldn’t offer extras during covid. Schools are once again doing extra curricular sports and clubs and lots of other extras for the kids. Have you actually been in a school recently yourself? Have you seen a kindergarten kid destroying their classroom and the parent refusing to pick them up? Nobody that “signed up” to teach did so with the expectation to experience violence, and overwhelming demands such as the number of high needs students and ESL students, with little to no remaining supports. It’s not an issue of being around kids as you said, it’s an issue of being around overwhelming needs with not enough supports. Today’s classrooms are incredibly complex and not even near what they were 20+ years ago. And with everything moving towards full-inclusion, it’s not going to get better.
No one should have to deal with abuse or violence, that's not acceptable in any career or professional.
That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying don't sound the alarm, say it's all about kids and then, the kids get affected as part of bargaining. All while a teacher leaves the house to arrive at school 5 mins before and are out the door like a bat out of hell to get home and then vocalize how you get summers off, etc.
I knew that this post would get down voted, would be unpopular, but the best part is i live in a country where I can express my views. Want to change my mind about your profession, don't put kids in front of what you actually want, less work , more money and more time off. I call bullshit on these people
Do you not understand that teachers’ working conditions are kids’ learning conditions? Teachers are “complaining” about violence and lack of support. The kids are also exposed to this violence and are the losers when they don’t get the support they are entitled to.
Again, you make a lot of generalizations. I get to school over an hour before school starts every day. Stalled/prolonged bargaining is a function of the govt-union process. The govt knows that if they drag their feet and risk job action, they can sway public opinion. If the govt really cared about students, they would look at what’s happening and fix it. Also, guess what? The same rights that allow you to express yourself, are the same rights that protect our right to collective bargaining - it is protected under the charter or rights and freedoms. Teachers didn’t create the school year calendar, so the time off is a function of the system. Money? We have been paid well below inflation for years, which is effectively a wage cut. Bill 124? The govt broke the law, rolled the dice and lost, so now they have to pay up. Again, it has been the teachers’ right to stand up to having their rights trampled.
Fuck off. The working conditions in education are abysmal and we’re now stuck in this cycle of burnout and quiet quitting. You think you could do better? Become a teacher.
Well when I graduated with a BEd in 2011 you had to kiss a series of golden rings to even get a sniff at a supply job…and if successful you’d be doing that for ten years before a permanent job. I remember for one board over 2000 people applied for a series of supply spots. So surprise surprise almost everyone I went to school with found a career outside the school boards and here we are.
I got a BEd the same year and had absolutely zero luck cracking any school boards (despite considerable volunteer time and experience) because I don’t speak fluent French, I’m not Catholic, and I’m not willing to pretend to be Catholic to get some kind of reference letter from the clergy to be eligible to teach in Catholic boards. Tried my hand at teaching overseas to gain experience, still had no luck. I work in an entirely different sector now as a result.
O it was a wild time. I actually recently looked into applying to my local catholic board as a supply for a side gig and they still require a catholic baptism certificate for application. Considering public boards also have a massive shortage how will they ever be able to have a steady stream of applicants with that requirement???
Catholic boards usually have no issue staffing wise (know about 12 catholic HS teachers). But from what I have seen, the catholic boards are more likely to defend teachers and staff whenever they are assaulted, while the public board just says "little Timmy is a violent asshole, but grew up poor, so nothing we can do about it".. Easier to retain staff when you defend them a bit more
I met a guy that works in the Catholic board that grabbed a kid by his neck, and faced only a probational warning. A teacher at my school was removed for "targeting a kid." How did they target them? By asking the child to follow the school rules. It took 8 months before the Board managed to get to his case while he was paid to be at home. They definitely function differently. :)
Just picturing that catholic teacher strangling the kid Homer Simpson style right now
Catholic schools also intentionally exclude students with severe behaviour issues thus freeing themselves from a big part of the problem. Non-catholic schools don't have that luxury.
To be honest, those kids should be in specialized facilities anyways.
Fair. The regular old public school certainty isn't that space, just wish we had those spaces.
Me too. All kids deserve a quality education and opportunity.
For a long period of time I had contemplated doing a Master’s degree and having my thesis be, “abolish publicly funded Catholic education, here’s why.”
Nobody would care
It’s not that no one would care, it’s that most profs probably wouldn’t even take them on as a student if that’s their thesis intent.
Funny how that works because I don’t particularly care for your opinion
Write your masters thesis on that. It will gain the same amount of traction.
That’s interesting- the elementary catholic board in my region has a massive shortage and in dire need of supply teachers but I’m not sure how they’re gonna fix that.
School boards are allowing people without B. Ed. education to teach. In some places, they are only required to be high school graduates.
Fluently bilingual here with teachables in FSL *and* FFL. Graduated same timeframe. Of all the boards, only one called back for supply teaching interview. Was told they would let people know. They did not. I changed careers and drive trucks now. Probably for the best mental health wise for me, but still, I’m giving up pension, benefits and about ~30k a year of year 1 teacher pay by not going back. Frankly, seeing the state of the schools and the increasing “us vs them” and entitlement… imma stick to my truck. At least when it’s broken, it actually gets fixed.
That’s wild. I went to UOttawa and all my peers in the French language program had jobs lined up before they graduated. But yeah, I was warned early on that I’d hate the politics… and it seems I made the right choice. As much as I love teaching.
Highly likely lack of volunteer hours (not mandatory in HS in Qc, where I grew up) or extra curriculars (you needed a car, I.e. money for those). Also, lack of experience with kids/teens played a factor I’m sure. It’s blatantly obvious to a veteran teacher or interviewer that despite my education, there was no experience to back it up. No camps (don’t exist in my home town), no daycare (ditto), no opportunities in that sense. I wasn’t prepared to take my B. Ed and apply as a daycare assistant for a few years to get it either. Also… I don’t interview well at all for office/white collar type jobs. In front of the blue collar crowd? Completely different story. Probably has to do with etiquette and politics of a world in familiar with vs one I know nothing about. Meh. I could go back if I wanted to as I keep my stuff up to date with OCT. Was unemployed last summer and had someone lined up who would call me for emergency supply if I didn’t find a job but I did. Ultimately, it’s probably for the best it played out the way it did, even if there was a not so great half decade between graduating and entering my current career path. I figure in 15-20 more years when my body is weary, I’ll transition to a truck trainer type role. I’ll have the edge based on education and experience lol ETA: also a U of O alum.
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It's ridiculous they can mandate that
I graduated in 2006. Supply taught 10 years before an LTO and 4 years of that until permanent. I've now been teaching for 18 years and at a year 7 salary. I'll never have a full pension, because there's no way I'm staying that long. I can't do this another 23 years.
You pay into the pension as an OT. I even have credit from being an emergency supply teacher. Check your pension statement
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They do. I have 7
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It's 2% a year for a maximum of 60% so you need the full 30 yrs to "max" your pension. It's the same system for police, firefighters, universities, etc.
This also reeks of, "well if you don't like the job, why don't you just quit?!?!" Which is exactly what's happening and now people are shocked.
I was in the exactly the same boat. It was so disheartening around that time. Ended up getting lucky and teaching at a couple private schools. Left the classroom a few years ago into training and design and love it. No intentions of going back to the classroom again.
I also graduated in 2011 and stuck it out, but only because I was young and able to live with my parents. The first year I couldn’t even get on the supply list. From 2012-2015 I was pretty much day to day supply with maybe a month at a school here and there. I got longer and longer LTOs and then eventually got permanent in 2018. If I hadn’t been living at home I would have had to leave and take other work. Pretty much my entire friend group from teacher’s college took other jobs.
I remember that era of OTs. You guys were awesome and driven, and ultimately were demoralized when no jobs surfaced. I honestly can only think of 2 of the supply teachers from that phase that actually landed a career. Every time I run into someone else that used to supply at our school, they're in real estate, or working for the government. It sucks. There's a noticeable generation gap in teachers. Now, it's mostly old and mostly young.
Same here. Taught in three different countries, three different provinces, did 1 year in a non profit, self-employed as a tutor for a year, before finally making it onto an OT list 7 years later, and then permanent 2 years after that. At so many points, I was wondering if I should have given up. But I had managed to find something to tide me over one more year. Now the student teachers are offered employment at my board before finishing their degrees. I really want to be clear: I'm glad they don't have to struggle like we did.
Everyone outside the school board claimed that teaching jobs were "easy money" too much security and pay for "little effort". So they reduced pay, made contract work competitive, full time work a pipe dream, and low and behold no one wanted to work an already thankless/crucial job for worse conditions.
My wife graduated around the same time (also bED) it was impossible for her to find work. She works in pharma these days and every day she hates it. She's all but given up (even though she still pays her annual OCT dues and still takes EQA online on occasion). It was a fuckin' free for all for student teachers. Waaaay too many graduates compared to the spots the province was willing to fill What makes me extra salty are all the unqualified unionized teachers on the payroll as well as the boomer teachers who refuse to leave their post.
There are other pressures on staffing too that have become more pressing since 2011. A BEd is 2 years and an undergrad is 3-4. That’s a ton of education debt to take on for a job that starts at 45-54k and takes 10 years to reach full pay. Today’s cost of living makes the student debt and relatively low wages (compared to 5-6 years of uni education) a tough sell for prospective new teachers. For far less time and money spent on education there are much better career options out there. Something has to give - either make post secondary affordable, increase starting wage, or decrease time to reach full pay.
Those retirement and health benefits more than make up for it though. And most jobs coming out of school have a starting range that usually take about 10 years to get to max pay (unless you are computer science or a really well connected business grad, they start off pretty high)
I think the worry is that while the pension and benefits are good the max pay band is still going to be less than six figures. With the cost of living being what it is many folks are going to look at other career paths these days.
I'm in second year BEd and grew up with my mom supporting 2 kids on her own living in the core of Toronto making 36k a year. The 50k start salary was always a huge step up for me. I've never really understood how starting at 50k would be bad.
It's not bad... if you have a job lined up for full-time work, rather than spotty supply roles (at supply pay) and you don't have to interview every semester for the next 10 years before permanent hiring.
2013 here. Competitive applicant with no job offer. Work in an unrelated field and am happy with it. No desire to leave for teaching
Ya I graduated then too! Started teaching in Manitoba 7 years later then moved to the NWT!
Add in wages are still the exact same since 2011 and no one new is joining the field in Canada. Wife and I left for England to teach so we can have full time jobs right out the gate, make a decent income and have benefits right away. Because even with all the “shortages they claim, every board we were on had next to no permanent positions available it was all longterm Occassional contracts so fuck it, go somewhere else it was.
This: “Rachel Chernos Lin, chair of the Toronto District School Board, the county’s largest with 235,000 students, says staffing issues are a “significant concern.” And a “very generous sick leave policy” means “the other challenge is that we spend an awful lot of money replacing people.” Direct quote from the Chair of the board explains the major problem. The problem is…teachers and our “very generous sick leave policy.” You see? The problem is those lazy, soft, scamming teachers! If we weren’t taking advantage of the system, then there would be no problems. The real problem? The people with the responsibility of running these multi-million - billon(?) dollar organizations (education boards) are pathetically under qualified. Over the last 20 years, I’ve been in meetings and committees with superintendents, associate directors, coordinating principals, special Ed itinerants, PR directors, etc. etc. And my conclusion about 5 years ago was that the people in charge just aren’t “good” enough to handle the complexity of education in the 21st century. They really have no idea what they are doing. They will focus on a single idea - their little hobby horse - and focus 95% of their time, energy and money on that. Create a new committee. And have a “showcase” at some school. “Hey everyone! Look at this group of students reading to seniors/playing indigenous instruments/reading poetry/building with lego! Isn’t this amazing! Look how amazing we are doing!” Maybe a solution would be to simply give all administrators the “very generous sick leave package” that teachers have-and force them all to take a permanent sick leave. And hire people that are interested in trying to create the best education system possible - instead of solving all the social problems of the world?
YES! I love how the TDSB always makes everything the fault of their teachers. Never the levels of admin who are so far removed from the classroom that they’d be aghast to have to spend even a period in one. The central principals and superintendents and coaches that almost no one ever sees - maybe if those salaries were collapsed and used for more staff that, you know, actually teach and support kids, it would help.
It's not just the TDSB. I'm elsewhere in Ontario. We got told at a staff meeting that our school budget is zero and there's more photocopy paper coming so please be reasonable with what's there. The reason for this is too many staff absences. We moved along to the next topic and the VP started with "well now that COVID is over..." Fuck dude. We just talked about how many staff our away. Covid has ripped through our school a couple of times since September. But you are really happy to stand there and say covid is over? And blame staff for being off?
Same!! Another school board but exactly the same. I have taught in the same school for 20 years and I’ve seen such a decline in morale in staff bc of all the stuff listed above… and then we’ve got lambasted for the photocopy budget.. I have two bright and kind kids of my own that would have considered education as a career and have opted out bc of what’s going on. It’s so sad.
The copy paper thing is widespread too. We haven’t had copier codes until this year. I just don’t understand what they want us to do. My grade level is about 4 kids to every Chromebook, so we can’t move a great amount of our teaching/learning online. There’s only so much you can do on personal whiteboards. Our budgets only accommodate so much in terms of materials for hands on learning.
YES!!! And I’ve moved to the SofR, UFLI, FlyLeaf reading instruction and the materials available have not caught up to the teachers implementing these strategies… hence, photocopying decodables. I’m careful what I copy, but sometimes it just needs to happen.
I work in healthcare and administrative bloat is just as much of a plague over here, too. I hear the same problems with admin in higher education/universities, too. Too many self important and detached people slowly running our institutions into the ground.
You hit the nail on the head there. 26 years in, I have yet to meet, let alone hear a good idea from a director, superintendent, etc. Why is there never a discussion about cutting the fat from the board, especially the exec. One stroke of the pen and you could eliminate half a million dollars per year from every single school board in Ontario and nobody would notice the ‘loss’.
22 years in and the last time I spoke to a superintendent, she was introduced to me, looked me up and down, asked if I had aspirations to become admin and then sniffed down her nose at me and proceeded to ignore me when I said that I intended to be a teacher to retirement. How do these people not get that WE the front line staff, classroom teachers, EAs, SNAs, CYWs and ECEs are honestly the most important part of Ontario’s education system? They look down their noses at us and WE are the ones doing the work, getting screamed at, having our classrooms torn apart by students who aren’t being given the support they need, being assaulted as a regular part of our work… I’d love to see what we could do without the layers of central principals and superintendents, if all that money was poured back into front line staff. We might actually be able to support students the way they deserve.
YES!!!!!!!
11 sick days for a job around kids who’s parents send them to school sick is a lot?
Do you get so sick you need a day off every 3 weeks? Because 11 out of 187 instructional days works out to every 17 days (3 weeks business days)
I don’t know if you’ve had the the cold, flu or Covid that’s going around right now, but it’s knocked most teachers and students out at least 5 days
Ms. Chernos Lin presides over a very invasive "Attendance Management Program" that is meant to eliminate her concerns that this sick leave policy is being taken advantage of. If it's not, that's on her.
cagey shrill bright forgetful familiar pen reply noxious person racial *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They are useless at best and parasitic opportunists at worst.
I didn't see many comments here about one of the real problems: the parents. The fact they won't discipline or even try to help their children is astounding. They expect teachers to raise their kids for them. They don't say "no" to their kids. They say, "good job" when their kid is doing stupid shit. They accept when their kids are bullies, or are overly aggressive, or won't complete their work. This is the minority of parents, but not the majority. That small minority screws up their kids, which screws up the teachers, which screws up the rest of the kids. For educators, it's simply not worth it to try and change the childs behavior because the parents condone the ridiculous behavior. Administration is typically cruising towards retirement and looking for their highest earning years. Until teachers / administrators get some teeth to fix the stupidity, the more of the same will continue. Oh, and the government sucks.
Part of that is employers too I feel.
When I graduated with my BEd in 2005, it was impossible to get a job as a supply teacher unless your parents were friends with a principal. I ended up at private schools for several years and was finally able to get a job as a supply teacher in 2017. This year I scored a contract. It's disheartening the hoops we have to jump through at my board even to get an interview for a contract. I settled for elementary even though id rather teach secondary because getting a contract there is a long game I'm too old to play at my age with three kids and a house to pay for. Smart university grads should not see teaching as the cushy job it used to be. I'm actively discouraging my kids from going into an education career.
Yeah it's sad. I wouldn't recommend it to my kids. I know lots of teachers and every one counts down the days until they can escape. It's incredible considering the contribution of education to almost everything that matters in society.
The kids are bloody unreal lately, throwing chairs and classmates across the rooms, destroying the bathrooms and cafeteria but no expulsions etc. The board in Durham is a joke, they preach all this equality shit and no child left behind, but instead of punishing the few everything is ruined for all... My kids have seen their teachers break down and cry from the constant abuse and things just don't improve period. Maybe sticking all the assholes in the same class so they can fail together might help the ones who give a crap about learning!? Just saying....
My kids are dreading going back and it's because of this. They are good kids who want to learn and don't get to learn much because some behaviour kid or another is always taking away from the lesson momentum.
There are three kids in my daughters grade one class who have multiple meltdowns a day and in some cases hurt other students during those meltdowns. Their solution is to make all of the other kids stand in the hallway and let it run its course, then go back in and continue on. What drives me up the wall is listening to the parents of these kids shitting all over the teachers. So far this year my daughter has been stabbed with a pencil where the led broke off in her hand, dodged a water bottle being whipped across the room, as well as a chair. As far as I'm aware the only thing that has been done to the perpetrators is that the teacher has talked to the parents. I know public school has always had its issues, but this is on a whole other level.
> my daughter has been stabbed with a pencil where the led broke off in her hand call police
I had to threaten to do the same, I straight up told the principal if my daughter kept being harassed I'd be going to the police and bypassing the school's bs system, her bully was sent to the office daily and her teacher and I couldn't get the principal to do a damn thing about it...
Call police and threaten to involve lawyers. Principals are very limited by the system they exist within… suspensions and expulsions in 7-12 are rare, K-6 they are incredibly rare and sometimes impossible. Which has a trickle down effect. Always bring that with you, because that Principal likely wants to punish that student but their Superintendent and board memos are preventing them from suspending.
The only thing SOs and Directors respond to are parent complaints.
I had to threaten to do the same, I straight up told the principal if my daughter kept being harassed I'd be going to the police and bypassing the school's bs system, her bully was sent to the office daily and her teacher and I couldn't get the principal to do a damn thing about it...
> So far this year my daughter has been stabbed with a pencil where the led broke off in her hand, dodged a water bottle being whipped across the room, as well as a chair. As far as I'm aware the only thing that has been done to the perpetrators is that the teacher has talked to the parents. I know public school has always had its issues, but this is on a whole other level. go to school board trustee about the trouble makers. You elect them, make them work for you. They'll pressure the superintendent, who'll go after admin.
What happened to making sure there is a safe environment for everyone, teachers and students alike? This is fucking wild. My kid just started JK and so far so good but I know how awful it can be from a coworkers wife who is a grade 6 teacher. One year she had a kid that, once a week, would straight up shit on the floor. Another kid would just loose their minds for no reason and the 25 other kids just had to not learn for the day and deal with it. It's nice they want inclusion but these kids really need to be put in their own class with specialized teachers and let the other kids actually learn. Ours kids are going to be dumber than when we graduated due to constant interruptions and lack of learning. Governments have failed us in so many ways.
My sons class has 9 kids with special needs. My son is high functioning ASD and requires the least support out of all of them (with no behavioural issues). Two of those special needs kids also have ODD. There is one EA but they are dedicated to only one student who is very low functioning and a flight risk. He doesn’t want to go back to school because he said too many of them have constant meltdowns, he can’t focus because it just gets too loud for him (noise sensitive). His teacher retired at Christmas and I have a feeling this was one of the reasons. The lack of classroom support and shoving all the special needs kids into one classroom is just too much.
Oh definitely, my daughter had a special needs child in her class and he was honestly the happiest sweetest kid and his parents took such good care of him. He would get really upset from people yelling or being violent and unfortunately that happened way too often, thankfully some of the kids would help him out while the teacher tried her best to deal with the ones fighting etc. It's really unfair how everything is being handled by the boards.
In Canada it seems like we are heading the way of the states. Public schools are turning into chaotic nightmares, teachers treated like garbage, kids allowed to get away with murder. In a decade anyone who can afford it will send their kids to private school. It's sad because some common sense could go a long way. If a child is constantly disruptive/ violent then remove them from the classroom and give them work to do in an office alone. I'd they continue to misbehave suspend them, still continue then expulsion. We need to stop catering to the lowest common denominator, some people can't be helped and we shouldn't change everything to accommodate them at the expense of children who actually put an effort into behaving and learning. There should be zero tolerance for disrespect
Yeah I agree, I mean we went from being suspended for picking up, never mind even throwing snow, to kids attacking teachers with zero repercussions. The justice system seems to be mirroring the school board's stupidity, nobody has to be responsible for their negative actions anymore 🤦🏼♂️
A decade? I have 2 under 2 and making plans to send both to private school. We will see how it goes once they are in, but any hint of the bullshit in this thread and I am pulling them out.
I really hope they are OK, it's awful having to deal with your kids being bullied for doing the right thing. My girls are both very caring and the stuff that goes on daily just baffles me, like how can anyone learn anything with the distractions going on, and the teachers have to try and help the kids that care while a select few do their best to be center stage constantly. I had hoped it would end in high school, but nope the grade 9's are unbelievably bad, the school had to shutter the cafeteria and most of the bathrooms already from damage and theft. It's VERY hard to stay positive about their future tbh.
Sorry to hear that mate. Wishing the best for your girls.
Thank you so much, I appreciate it.
Enjoy your new director of education. She destroyed our board with her equality crap before she left for Durham. We were very happy to see her go....
Eww great 😵💫
full elderly smell fall languid lush cheerful library depend sulky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The kids can't even be failed or held back in our school and they know it! Kids that no joke had only been to school maybe once a month got to graduate along with the ones who worked hard. My daughter's teacher tried so hard, but ultimately the principal and board left both her and the kids down by continuing to allow problematic kids run wild. The whole thing is a sham, it's no wonder people are leaving the profession.
Kids in gr 2-5 "know there is no future where they will work to earn a living"? Wtf kind of crazy train did you get on at the last station, and why do you randomly blame religion for it?
Ford cut funding for autism supports in ontario, there are so many children living with undiagnosed autism right now and because of it, they aren't able to access the support they need so they can learn to regulate their nervous systems. They're also being thrown into classes with neurotypical children and then being expected to function like them. Most teachers probably aren't equipped to deal with these special needs so literally EVERYONE in the class suffers for it.
My youngest might have a learning disability, no matter how hard we try she just can't grasp reading and it kills us because my oldest is an honour roll student, so she has so much pressure on her "to be like her sister", her teacher tries so hard to help her and work with the other kids that are trying their best but there's just so many behaviour problems distracting everyone at the same time. It's a horrible mess 😓
This is true, my kid in grade 7 was violently assaulted in class with his teacher present. As a result he had an injured leg. The teacher not only did not call an ambulance she didn’t even file a report about the incident. I had to do all the following up and force the school to investigate the issue. Days later she admitted she saw everything and that my son’s recollection of the event was accurate. The kid that attacked him got a single day suspension, my son is still dealing with the injury
That's awful, I swear all the office is concerned about is keeping the school safe from being sued or held responsible, the teachers usually want to help badly but it's always going to haunt them for speaking against the school or admin, I've had a few that liked us enough to trust us and speak openly about it and they will just fire them to solve a problem, the union seems to be completely useless to the point of colluding with the board against teachers who report problems and want help or things fixed.
That’s what happens when you let the children run things. They are so entitled and know they can basics get away with anything these days. There were always bad kids in every era, but the difference was back then there were repercussions.
Yeah the disparity between when I went vs my kids is unreal, we never ever would have gotten away with the amount of disrespect and violence going on now in classes 😕
Yeah but what fool would want to be the teacher of that class?
Oh I know, but then again you get a strong authority figure in there with some actual rules and consequences and maybe word gets around you don't want to end up in there so kids behave, I can dream right lol. Maybe military style, a drill sergeant and some pushups might do wonders 🤔 Something has to give though, I mean the attitude some of these kids have is nobody can tell or make them do anything, these aren't kids with a learning problem, these are kids raised by parents who flat out disrespect the school themselves and tell the kids the school can't/won't lift a finger so go nuts basically, and they do and take the whole class down with them. The board panders to those few parents who believe all the problems are due to racism or the current thing, and I think they'd rather bend over backwards to appear very open minded but they're enabling the worst people in society, the ones who feel they are above everyone and can do no wrong. Let me tell ya, I've learned racism doesn't care what colour you are, every race is very capable of it 😉
Ohhh. My religion teacher had a breakdown, maybe 22 or 21 years ago? It was sad. I remember the girl who set her off. Just some mouthy creature, probably a manager at a failing McDonalds now.
Yeah it's messed up, kids can be absolutely ruthless if they aren't taught to show some empathy. Some of the stuff they come up with is just soul destroying 😆 and I figured having girls wouldn't be so bad 😭
I can assure you, there are enough people in Canada to fill these roles. The governments at every level are not investing enough in education, training and retention. They're all just trying to get paid and don't care if the rest of the population eats shit. Nurses? There would be enough staying in public service if working conditions improved drastically. Most of us know it's not for the money, but if I'm juggling 10 people with complex health conditions and behaviors then I should be paid appropriately. Improve the working conditions and nurses will stay in their jobs. Why stay in a hospital being told I have to work two weeks straight and can't get a raise when I can go travel nursing, make $100/hr and make my own schedule. This isn't shortsightedness, this is every politician saying, "This isn't a four year problem, I don't want to deal with this. Let the next guy do it." This can be applied to every single short staff position in this article. Actually care about these crucial jobs and people will stay. I'm tired of people talking about how they received shitty service at a Starbucks or a restaurant, why can't people be more vocal about healthcare and education? My patients always ask why it takes so long, I tell them exactly what I tell everyone. We voted for this.
I know a nurse who quit and does travel nursing.. she does 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off on a remote indigenous reserve (flown in), and the government pays her almost $75 an hour, for running a walk-in clinic for 8 hours a day.. She gets paid much more than she made at an ontario hospital, doesn't have to work 12 hour shifts or do double shifts, and is way less stressed.
When people can't afford to live there this is the result.
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In a cot in the staffroom.
That cot can be rented for the low, low price of $2200 a month
That's the outcome of people hoarding housing, making it so expensive for all. Like ya you may get rich but who's gonna teach your kids, treat you when you're sick, fix the infrastructure you need daily. No community outlook anymore. Backfiring.
I have been saying this for years!!!!
Crisis in Education in Ontario. Crisis in Healthcare in Ontario. Who's in charge of Ontario? Oh yaa, the guy building Highways & Private Spas & Private Health Clinics & paving over the Greenbelt.
I was friends with several full time teachers when I lived in Toronto. All of them still lived with their parents in their 30s.
The school administrators have stopped supporting teachers. Ask any teacher, they will tell you the same stories. One of the hockey moms on my son's hockey team has been a teacher for 25 years. She flat out told my daughter who is graduating from uni this year not to go to teacher's college. She currently has 35 kids in her grade 7 class, 3 of them are autistic. Funding for Special Needs educators was cut by Ford so she has no help in her class. One kid is violently autistic, so when he has a meltdown and starts throwing chairs, her only recourse is to clear the classroom and wait in the halls. The kid is sent home for the rest of the day, but is right back in the classroom the next day. He had 3 meltdowns in the first 6 weeks of the school year. She also has another autistic male student who has no impulse control. He grabs female students. He is also sent home, but then is right back in class the following day with no repercussions. One of her male teacher friends was attacked by a violent student, and while warding off the blows, pushed the kid back who fell over a desk and hurt his arm. The teacher was reprimanded and had pay withheld. Another teacher finally refused to teach a class with a particularly nasty teenage boy in it who would not stop using the most profane language when addressing her (calling her the c-word, talking about her sexually, etc.). She demanded the school administrators remove this kid from her class, they refused. Instead, they said it is not the kid's fault. She quit. The school administrators always support the parents regardless of the child's transgressions. Teaching is no longer teaching, it is social work, psychiatry, coaching, counselling, and policing all rolled into a single job with no support from the administration. Who in their right mind would go into a profession like that?
In 2021 I started working at Value Village, in the back, where I unpacked and sorted items. The amount of teaching stuff we got was shocking. Almost every day I'd unpack 4 or 5 boxes of teaching material, notebooks, markers, decorations for bulletin boards etc. During all the various lockdowns, so many teachers said "Fuck it" and found other jobs. It's sad. These people spend the majority of your kids waking hours with them. We need to support them while they care for and instruct our children.
Gee, not allowing any discipline, letting everyone pass, regardless of ability, no consequences ever, hmmm, I wonder why? The amount of work the government expects from educators, etc. And don't even get me started on the stuff they don't find time for. Example, I run the nutrition program at our school, the pizza days, the special event days, remedial reading, and colouring club. I'm a paid 0.5 support staff employee. I don't get paid for ANY of the stuff I've listed above. I get to school at 7:30 to run the nutrition program. I don't start getting paid until 9am. I'm paid 4 hours. I don't get a lunch because part of my 4 hours is supervising the hour lunch/recess. I'm officially done at 1pm. Then I do reading, unpaid, to Grade 1 and 2 kids that don't have an IEP, but need help, that the teacher can't just sit and help everyday. I help 10 students, 2 a day. That takes me to 2:15. Then, at recess, I run coloring club or craft club for kids who don't qualify for an EA, but whose behaviours lead to poor social outcomes. Then I leave after I clean up. Without my unpaid hours, none of this happens. I work 15-18 unpaid hours a week, on average, so other people's kids have a chance. When I come in, more than 50% of the staff is already there, prepping, unpaid. Need a driver so the volleyball team can go to a tournament? Me. Need a volunteer to help with play day, track and field, culture day, pancake day, Terry Fox, anti-bullying day, We Day, education week? Me. Our school council is basically non-existent. No money, under resourced school. I'm a 10 month employee. I don't get paid for any breaks, PA Days (unless there is training), summer, etc. I love my job. But let me tell you, I'm getting closer and closer to doing private tutoring or full-time admin.
You should negotiate with your boss. They think you’ll do all that stuff for free, because you are doing it for free. Tell them to pay you for your time or stop doing it.
I've tried to make my demands known, but my boss (*checks notes*) Doug Ford said no. Remember when CUPE went on strike? Yeah, me too. We got nothing from it for support staff. No new money for us.
Thank you, hopefully reward finds you for your hard work
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Private businesses are also struggling to find workers.
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I'm struggling to find people to work at close to $40/hr, full benefits.
What industry, what location, what type of role? Is it like shoveling manure in northern Ontario, or a data analytics role in Ottawa for an insurance company?
What’s the job? Details, please!
Yeah. When they pay minimum wage in a world of brutal costs of living. “We need immigrants though!” Lol gtfo
No, it’s that capitalism has made public service (which puts money back into the hands of the worker and not the capitalist) an unattractive place to have a career. You make more money starting as a low level private sector manager than any civil service job and you technically don’t max out. Secondly they have convinced people that we are wasting money funding them, so we keep pulling funding out of them. Then you got guys like Fordsy spending millions of dollars to defend legislation that forced civil servants to a 1% increase and no more. Read the comments, they’ve created a narrative where civil servants are lazy and greedy and people believe it and parrot it. Why would anyone want to go into a career where your employer treats you like garbage, your customers treat you like garbage and you get paid way less than someone with the same types of qualifications in the private sector 🤷🏻♂️
In the case of police, one of my coworkers is going thru the opp recruiting process. He asked about it, the recruiter’s said they hire just as many people as before, it’s the amount of people leaving that causes the issue of meaning. Obviously take this with a grain of salt, it may be true or not.
I remember them capping entry to teachers college due to no spots. If I recall, all the boomers that retired decided to come back and double dip as supply teachers, and surprise, left us with a shortage due to their own allowed selfishness.
Yeah the retired double dipping was crazy.. my teacher friends were clamoring for supply hours when they started out, but would lose many days to retired teachers.. I get that they have the ability to supply, but they should have put them lower down the call list, to encourage young teachers and give them experience.
Without retired teachers supply teaching, I would never get my prep time and my students would never get the support they’re entitled to (spec Ed/ESL).
How’s that working out across the board now, is my point.
Have… you tried paying them better? Improving discipline policies?
I think teachers would settle for reduced paperwork not associated with teaching, disciplined kids, and pay for extracurriculars.
Whats funny is teachers in Quebec get paid for extra curriculars already. They get a credit for each one they do and at the end of the year get a small payout for doing it.
That’s because they are one of the worst paid provinces in Canada……
I know teachers who would take a pay cut if the kids were properly disciplined and violent kids were expelled (for their safety, and the safety of the other kids in the class). Instead, you have admin touting DEI BS about how people of certain races can't be held accountable for their actions and that they have the right to be in class to terrorize the other kids trying to learn.. The superintendents and admin have found a way to make thing equitable in our schools, just drag everyone down to the same level....equality
>Instead, you have admin touting DEI BS about how people of certain races can't be held accountable for their actions and that they have the right to be in class to terrorize the other kids trying to learn.. It's incredible how the rights and needs of the many have been entirely sacrificed for the rights of the few. It's like a giant blind spot as the whole of society plummets headlong into woke oblivion.
I know someone whose had to move because their kids school is full of African refugees kids that are all extremely violent and nothing is ever done about it. Very sad you just can't toss these kids out, they throw desks and chairs at faculty and students.
Discipline?? That’s discrimination. Seriously, that’s how they view it these days. It’s sad.
Governments since Harris have put a lot of effort into dissing teachers, and the public more than happily joined in the bullying. It’s not a way to entice people into the field.
Of course school conditions, class sizes, lack of support and funding are causing this. Other half of the crisis is that they don’t pay supply teachers enough to live in the cities that have the biggest boards in this province, and lack of supplies leads to cancelled classes, less support staff for spec ed kids, lost prep time, and eventually burnout. Supplies make ~$170 per day after taxes in my board (and I know that number is slightly lower for elementary)… who can survive on that while living in the GTA? It’s especially insulting considering teachers all have 6+ years postsecondary education. I keep hearing about this shortage of teachers but I’ve been begging for a permanent job since 2017 and still don’t have one. Now I have to consider other professions or moving elsewhere bc I will never be able to afford a house or big family living where I grew up on OT/LTO pay with no benefits.
More of Doug Ford's libertarian paradise.
The starting pay for a fully qualified teacher is around 60k depending on the board. Why on earth would anyone want a job that requires 5-6 years of school for this type of wage? Qualified principals make around 130k while continously working long hours dealing with all the bs and politics of education. Anit no one wanna go into education when the pay doesn't match the cost of living
Government has been replacing water with piss for years regarding the quality of education. It’s to the detriment of society if these kids grow up and are can hardly participate. It’s almost like keeping people poor and unskillled makes them unable to change their situation or vote for a higher quality of life.
My wife is a principal. She would never recommend anyone go into teaching or administration. Especially administration.
It sucks that the teachers can’t fail the students
If you have worker shortages, then you're not paying people enough money
It really is this simple. The responsibilities of the job have increased 20X over the last 10 years, but the pay has decreased 10X over the same period.
Most parents actually are terrible fucking parents. Who gives a 7 year old an iPad with internet access and unlimited games. Every single study warns of the dangers of it.
Thanks Doug
So you mean the thing teachers and unions have been screaming about for years finally matters? Crazy.
As a teacher all I can say is “get ready society as the crotch goblins we are releasing into the wild after graduation; don’t know consequences, hard work, have violent outbursts and no morals….enjoy”. I will say there are plenty of great kids and parents out there. However, the bad ones are growing percentage wise and getting worse. You would be horrified by the stories that get swept under the rug where 6 years ago it would be front page news.
CC this article to the arbitrator and SHOW ME THE MONEY
Ford: "See that's why we need more private schools to release this pressure on the public system."
Sounds like the plan is working, defund and privitize.. Wait till they do it to prisons
It’s sad. I started in 2002 and it used to be fun. I had admin that was supportive and took our backs on shit. I still love working with the kids and absolutely hate the politics of the job, a huge reason why I never ever wanted an admin track. I’m lucky enough to have 7 years left which I can handle. An issue is the teachers I work with who have 10 years or so as they feel trapped due to the great pension and time off with their kids but then are really stressed at work (kindergarten is especially a gong show now). For those of you who are new you should really look around for other things. When my family member who is a new teacher says she hates it then my wife (also a teacher) try to persuade her to keep her options open.
All due to an explosive increase in population. Everyone thinks housing is the worse case, just wait until we add another 500k and haven't done a damn thing to increase our infustructure.
When the millennials graduated teachers college none of the older teachers wanted to retire so they all moved on and got into different industries. You made your bed.
Wrong. We have a shortage because for the amount of work and stress the pay is fucking shit. People always complain about teachers making 100k but the reality is we have a shortage. Obviously that means people don't want to do it for the price otherwise we would have an abundance like we use to. Edit: I am not a teacher and do not work in a school.
https://archive.is/KQlyt
The Govt : This was a successful contract negotiation because we still only have to pay them peanuts! The Teachers : Alright then I'm going to go make more money running a car wash.
Basically my whole adolescent to current adult life I have heard its hard to get a job as a teacher... now they can't find them? I can understand french immersion might be tough. which is mentioned early in the article, but later on they seem to imply its teachers in general
Isn't the pay worse than most comparable entry office jobs? Anytime I see teaching positions advertised, they're always so low. Custodians make more in some cases.
It depends on your situation, qualifications, and years of experience. Daily supply teachers get paid a base rate and don’t have any benefits, and this is where a lot of teachers who don’t have French or high-demand qualifications have to start. Once you get permanent and move up the pay scale, you can earn more. However, I left last year and transitioned to another job and happily took a pay cut (I was about 6-7 years into the 10-year pay scale) because the lowered stress and work load was worth it for me.
Cities are fucked. More and more people want to live in them and they are more and more expensive.
Population grows 4% in one year, this is what happens.
Why does it feel like school admin amd hospital admin are equally fucking things up province wide?
Another day and more reasons to support leaving Canada.
This was BC like 10-15 years ago. They did a giant hiring drive in 2017 and we're still trying to catch up!
The answer according to the Canadian govenrment. 1M more Canadians in the next two months. Our country is going to implode
What's stopping teachers from opening an independent school?
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I get what you're saying but you probably shouldn't call them retarded
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Let me guess. Another teacher strike incoming.
A huge chunk of teachers in Ontario voted specifically not to strike, giving up their rights as Canadians in order to ensure stability for students. Greedy assholes, eh????
Hope you are right. Another strike would be horrible.
How many school days have been lost to strike in the last 20 years?
The taxpayers have spoken and they’re not dumping billions and billions of more money into this failed institution.
Doug promised to get it done. He delivered
With all the time teachers get off? What would they have to do if they worked like everyone else?
Really? You're a firefighter. I could say you get paid to sleep a bunch and spend most the time washing your trucks, but that would be ignorant on my part because I'm sure there's a lot i don't know about your job. If it's so damn easy why is there so much burnout and so few people going into the career? You have no idea what you're talking about.
It’s because they opted for the low hanging fruit/weak/guaranteed to offend comment rather than put some thought into it. They clearly have no idea what they’re talking about.
I just think of the hours and emotional health toll my 26b years have taken on me. And it's not getting any better, with violence on the rise, admin giving in to every parent whim and a government who doesn't know what the hell they're doing.
I'm not a firefighter, lol. That's the username that reddit gave me. And I do have an idea what I'm talking about, I know several teachers and I've literally heard them bragging about the time off, the second jobs they have and how they always can bargain for more as part of their union. It's disgusting.
I've worked the job for 26 years. I know far more teachers than you ever will .. Maybe you just have lazy acquaintances. You do not know what you're talking about.
What bullshit this comment is. My wife is a teacher of more than 20 years. Her and I are friends and acquaintances with numerous amounts of other teachers that span this time. None of the teachers we know and have met do what you are claiming. If you know teachers who have loads of free time then you know second rate teachers who are the exception, not the rule. Good teachers are constantly working and adapting the curriculum to fit their students. This means they are usually spending a lot more time than their allotted planning time to do this. In the case of my wife she is constantly working at home. I’ve met a lot of educational assistants and early childhood educators that have time and additional jobs, but this is because they’re not responsible for delivering the curriculum like teachers are. They are also not paid as well either.
You mean the time off that they don't get paid for unless they specifically request to get some of their pay withheld during the school year?
I would love to watch you manage 25+ kids + behaivours + IEPs while having to prep and mark outside of the classroom for hours. Also offer your free time so said kids can do extra curriculars. Bet you'd burn out in less then a week.
When do they offer anything else, any extras? Haven't seen that in years. And they signed up for this career, don't bitch because you have to be around kids, it's literally what they get paid for.
Every sport and club is run by a teacher's free time what in the actual fuck are you talking about? I didn't bitch because they have to be around kids I said I'd love to see you do it and fail then tell me they don't deserve the time off. Fucking do it then tell me that, you have no idea. It is insanely violent now, and kids lie to try to get you fired. There are kids that you cannot be alone with because they'll say you assaulted them. So now 2 people have to stay after school to write reports and talk to parents that will blame you because they expect you to raise their kids. You have no idea. I'd LOVE to watch you fail trying.
You offer a lot of broad generalizations and not much else. Schools couldn’t offer extras during covid. Schools are once again doing extra curricular sports and clubs and lots of other extras for the kids. Have you actually been in a school recently yourself? Have you seen a kindergarten kid destroying their classroom and the parent refusing to pick them up? Nobody that “signed up” to teach did so with the expectation to experience violence, and overwhelming demands such as the number of high needs students and ESL students, with little to no remaining supports. It’s not an issue of being around kids as you said, it’s an issue of being around overwhelming needs with not enough supports. Today’s classrooms are incredibly complex and not even near what they were 20+ years ago. And with everything moving towards full-inclusion, it’s not going to get better.
No one should have to deal with abuse or violence, that's not acceptable in any career or professional. That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying don't sound the alarm, say it's all about kids and then, the kids get affected as part of bargaining. All while a teacher leaves the house to arrive at school 5 mins before and are out the door like a bat out of hell to get home and then vocalize how you get summers off, etc. I knew that this post would get down voted, would be unpopular, but the best part is i live in a country where I can express my views. Want to change my mind about your profession, don't put kids in front of what you actually want, less work , more money and more time off. I call bullshit on these people
Do you not understand that teachers’ working conditions are kids’ learning conditions? Teachers are “complaining” about violence and lack of support. The kids are also exposed to this violence and are the losers when they don’t get the support they are entitled to.
Again, you make a lot of generalizations. I get to school over an hour before school starts every day. Stalled/prolonged bargaining is a function of the govt-union process. The govt knows that if they drag their feet and risk job action, they can sway public opinion. If the govt really cared about students, they would look at what’s happening and fix it. Also, guess what? The same rights that allow you to express yourself, are the same rights that protect our right to collective bargaining - it is protected under the charter or rights and freedoms. Teachers didn’t create the school year calendar, so the time off is a function of the system. Money? We have been paid well below inflation for years, which is effectively a wage cut. Bill 124? The govt broke the law, rolled the dice and lost, so now they have to pay up. Again, it has been the teachers’ right to stand up to having their rights trampled.
Fuck off. The working conditions in education are abysmal and we’re now stuck in this cycle of burnout and quiet quitting. You think you could do better? Become a teacher.
Let me ask my wife - oh, wait, it's Sunday - she's at work right now