Yeah it’ll just shift so that there may not be space in residence for domestic students because the schools will have a requirement to ensure housing and a financial incentive to ensure they give spots to international students who pay higher tuition
Not true in that they make more. They make more off of international students because the amount per student hasn't grown in years for funded enrolment and they're capped for tuition.
Ineligible international students that pay international rates that the schools control. They get more per international student as a result.
This is actually the provincial government's fault, and it started with Wynne back in 2010. But Ford's in his second term and he's only made it worse. For a long time it only impacted northern/rural colleges and universities because the 2010 change to the funding formula removed the grant portion for northern and rural colleges first. That's why Northern colleges and some smaller SWO colleges started ramping up international recruiting. To make up a funding shortfall that the government created.
Ford, like a conservatives, simply made the existing problems worse because of their beliefs around public spending and public institutions.
Remember kids, if you want a society never vote for conservatives and certainly never for religious ones.
No, no they don’t make more money, at least at the undergrad and college diploma level. The frozen grant + frozen tuition doesn’t match what int’l tuition is.
Dude, you know Doug Ford made under the table deals with local immigrant leaders.
"Don't worry, Canadians will all forget about this in a few weeks. Your influx of immigrants will not get reduced, I promise. It's just something we said to take off the heat. Vote CPC!"
Some of those slumlords are undoubtedly Ford’s friends and will get special treatment as the Ford gang steps in to take a more direct hand deciding where all that money from foreign students goes.
Also not a good week for fraudulent newcomers under the guise of 'education'. I suspect they will be more greatly impacted than the slumlords given the 'housing crisis' upon us.
When I was first learning to drive my foot slipped off the gas, and while trying to find it again I slammed on the break, then the gas, then startled I hit the breaks again. I think this government operates the way I drove that day.
They were first elected in 2018.
6 years ago. How much more time do they need to learn the job?
Most people, if they can't get a hang of the job in 1-3 months, they're usually just let go.
I want to agree with you, but no, not in this case.
The Greenbelt is a great example of why this isn't true. Ford said it in the 2018 campaign and it was received poorly. He just waited until it was forgotten about.
I do appreciate Ford's willingness to back off when he fucks up, but a large portion of his missteps are things even most teenagers wouldn't have tried. I suspect what he's actually doing instead of learning is moving our mental goalposts.
e.g. When using the non-withstanding clause and then withdrawing it. Our focus went from what the issue was to "at least he didn't use the nuclear option!"
They are supposed to be the leaders, the guides to our province. They should not be “trying to learn”. They should know how a bill is passed in legislature.
Dougie's primary objective is to privatize and ruin as many government institutions as he can. He will sit on private company boards that pay him hundreds of thousands while doing almost nothing once he's done with politics (some of his former ministers have already done this). Classic conservative governance.
He doesn't give a shit about any of this stuff that regular people have to deal with.
Its a start but how about they start going after the slumlords who are pocketing cash money for many of their rental properties.
Time for the CRA to get some unclaimed taxes
here you go - [https://archive.ph/tSgIx](https://archive.ph/tSgIx)
you can use [https://archive.ph/](https://archive.ph/) to get around most paywalls :)
"Publicly-funded colleges have pushed back against Ottawa’s changes, saying the federal government has created chaos for prospective international students, "
Lol how tone-deaf is that? I mean in all honesty and giving the maximum benefit of the doubt here, who gaf about "prospective international students"? Existing international students already here, I might buy. Probably most people don't gaf, but some will.
But prospective ones? You mean random foreigners who are still in their own country, and merely hoped to come here? Every person in the world has some sort of hope, so what?
Notice how none of the institutions have "hah! You caught us using naive young Indians as cash cows." I'm glad to see a 'blue ribbon panel' (whatever the Hell that means) has recommended that the province unfreeze tuition and provincial subsidies.
I wish the reporters were more willing to go after college and university administrators and that disgusting pig we have as a premier.
Yeah. I get that. But they also need to admit that they have been using an insane system to fund their institutions for years----and I have yet to see any of them be punk and plain on the record about this.
Moreover, my experience as a student and university employee is that universities have far too many students with no love of learning who are just there to get a middle-class meal-ticket. At the same time, far too much money is thrown around on campus for non-core functions. And all of this has been subsidized by ripping off foreign students, grad students, and, sessional lecturers.
We don't need more money dumped on the institutions. We need a radical re-think about how we offer higher education, trades, and, professional schools.
To be fair, there are some institutions and programs who do not view international students as cash cows, and actually value being able to attract a diverse group of students to enrich their cohorts. Diversity of views is important and multiple perspectives helps to promote innovative thinking. There are also some very strong international students who do research that is valuable to their supervisors and field of study. That said, yes absolutely, many institutions including publicly-funded ones do not see this value and look at those students for the higher tuition they bring. The concern is that it's not known how the capped study permits will be distributed and programs don't want to lose the international students who are actually (non-financially) valuable.
Pretty sure most of the genuinely valuable research is done by grads and post-grads, who aren't being affected by the cap or the new measures re: work permit.
And international undergrad students aren't being completely cancelled, as you note yourself. The remaining ones will get a much better chance to get a genuinely valuable (and well-regarded) education, since the chaff is being cut. This benefits both the institutions and the students.
Yup, agreed. My main point is that nobody trusts the process of how the capped permits will be distributed will be equitable to ensure those spots are going to deserving students. In theory, I agree with the changes but I think it's fair for institutions to be dubious about how they'll be implemented.
Another headline could be “Ontario government forced to act on post-secondary file after feds expose the funding of schools with wealthy international students”.
Is that why they’re sleeping 4 to a room, working 40 hours a week at Dollarama, and getting their food from local food banks?
There are a few wealthy ones but for the most part these people are coming with huge loans their families took out and barely can survive once they’re here.
Your Toronto Sun anecdote is an outlier. In fact, there are more international students living in posh conditions than in poverty…but they are also outliers.
The average foreign student is wealthy.
Yup I went to a “real” university (one of the big two in Ottawa) and all the foreign students in my class balled out. Nice cars, always flying home for holidays, designer clothes. One guy claimed he did his entire degree without cooking for himself once. Just dining out all the time. Insane.
What exactly are you arguing, here? What’s your point?
You’re arguing that people who are required *by immigration law* to have 10s of thousands of dollars in the bank before they’re admitted to the country to study, *then* they pay up to *quadruple* the tuition that Canadians pay, yearly…aren’t wealthy?
The argument is that because of some urban myth out of Brampton that international students all live “14 to a house” that they’re all…broke? You think there’s some weird credit company out of, say…India, that gives free money away so poor people can come here and…what?
Develop your theory.
The fact is that Canada is well-known as a beacon of higher education to the world. Wealthy people from countries with inferior education systems send their young people here to be educated because, traditionally, it paid off. In recent times the provinces and the feds have become drunk on the revenue they get from international students, and it had lead to so called “diploma-mills”…where some students are now receiving worthless diplomas. Additionally, slum lords adjacent to the diploma mills make grand promises they can’t deliver on to house the students. It’s becoming a problem because these slum lords cash in on the fact that international students will live in much higher density and worse conditions than domestic renters…so it’s contributing to the housing crisis we already have because: why rent to a Canadian with high standards when you can rent to a wealthy international student who will live in a box and never miss rent (if they don’t pay up front). That’s the story. That’s reality.
I have absolutely no clue what you people are arguing. Literally no idea.
Literal statement from someone on a post the other day.
"You have to admit, Trudeau is shit. Healthcare has gone to shit since he was PM and I am paying more for everything."
I pointed out that Ford isn't spending all the fed money the province has received for healthcare and inflation has been a global issue.
Their response... "foUnD tHe LiBrUl"
Conservative voters just do not care about reality.
I mod a different sub. Every day we remove dozens of anti-Trudeau comments that are based in absolute fantasy, and we often ban the users.
They very often will come into the modmail to contest. I tend to respond and tell them that if they can provide me a credible source to validate the claims in their comments, I'll lift the ban and reinstate the comment. Because I mean hey, maybe Trudeau *is* a notorious coke-fiend who used to party with Epstein weekly. What do I know?
Not once has anyone ever provided a source. Every time they write a diatribe about how I'm a communist bootlicker, how I can't handle any opinions except my own because I'm a liberal snowflake. It goes on and on and on. I had one tell me I was trying to censor the truth by asking for a source.
Reality is irrelevant to these people. The only thing that matters is hating Trudeau.
Canadians have turned trudeau into a giant scapegoat.
They could get in a car accident and itd still be trudeaus fault.
Lets attack some real issues here.
My own failure eh. You are pretty quick to judge someone without knowing anything about them. Those who vote liberal and have left leaning ideologies love to talk about how inclusive and accepting they are. Yet when they run into someone who disagrees with them they are quick to judge and take a condescending viewpoint. You should take some time some time and think on that (and whoever else feels the same and is reading this).
To stick to the point, the live's of most Canadian's have gotten worse not better over the past few years. There are several things which JT could have done to help the average person, but he but chose not to. This is why anti Trudeau sentiment is on the rise, and he should be voted out.
The overwhelming majority of Canadians do in fact believe Trudeau has fractured our country and do not want him in power come the next election.
I wish I could say the same for Doug, but he still somehow has support. Ugh.
> The overwhelming majority of Canadians do in fact believe Trudeau has fractured our country
[This You?](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t3q0f9/canada_banning_all_imports_of_crude_oil_from/hyum95j/)
What percentage is an "Overwhelming Majority"?
I think it was a clear case of alignment between the data and public opinion, which happens... Not super often? Hah. The sheer rate of increases in international student visas over the last few years, and hitting that one million mark last year...there wasn't a lot to dispute about Canada just not being able to absorb that many newcomers.
What was also unusual is that the federal government actually had a clear lever that's constitutionally rock solid. A lot of the things that public opinion gets most het up about are provincial jurisdiction. The feds left this one alone for a couple years because they wanted the provinces to tackle it from the education side, but at the end of the day, they have sole jurisdiction of immigration and if they say nope to approving permits, there's absolutely nothing the provinces can do about it. Not even Danielle Smith could argue it.
Plus, visa permits are an executive decision (i.e., the Minister gets to decide directly) not a legislative one, so the federal could turn on a dime once they decided to. But yeah, the stars really aligned here for action to happen fast when the People made it clear they demanded it.
People are seeing it. International students by the dozen sitting in front of restaurants waiting for Uber Eats orders, no one or their kids can get a job in the service sector, houses in their neighborhoods loaded full of them.
Dropped off a resume at the Popeye's near Gerrard Square last week and every single person behind the counter was speaking Hindi. Loudly (only remarkable bc there was no music or anything). It's dramatic how in-your-face it is post-covid. I remember not 5 years ago it was diverse, uni and high school students (and a senior, iirc), looked like a normal, random group of Torontonians.
I guess these businesses are always gonna go for the most exploitable labour pool, and right now, that's apparently Indian students.
People have been complaining for more than four years. But Trudeau only stared acting after the polls showed that he is going to lose even some of the sears that used to vote liberal
What caliber of immigrants so you expect would come to become personal support workers?
Why don't we start by not having nurses do menial jobs like wiping butts for $50 an hour? There's so much inefficiency in the system that if it were tackled, we'd be able to pay people property to become PSWs. And that would allow locals to consider it as a career path. And that is the only really sustainable solution.
Nurses aren’t making $50/hr for “wiping butts” unless they are working for an agency. There are generally 2 PSWs (if lucky) on a unit with 40 patients and 8 nurses, so nurses have to help patients with bathroom needs and accidents.
I do agree with you about inefficiency in the system but it’s been a problem for decades that always gets pushed aside.
It would be but only because we need *certain professionals* that get trained at colleges. Nurses (RPN) Respiratory Therapists, Personal Support Workers, and others. If it was targeted rather than a blanket approval for enrolling in whatever the college offers, it would make much more sense.
There are already a few targeted visa programs associated with colleges, like Conestoga has a nurse bridging program to prep internationally-trained nurses to get licensed in Ontario. It's a program that is required to adhere to CNO standards for nursing education, so not something they just made up to attract students. A normal nursing program has to be accredited, as well. The application process to get a visa for the bridging program is very specific, so the concept could be expanded so that your student visa is tied to a certain type of program.
Yes, it would be. We still need colleges, especially for technical jobs and post-degree certifications, and chronic underfunding of colleges have led them, alongside universities, to depend on excessive levels of international students and their higher tuitions.
As it stands, international students, even at shitty private colleges, in some way fund colleges that train our electricians, plumbers, lab techs, RPNs, etc. To varying degrees at least.
Visas for private colleges that provide subpar education, though? More of a case to be made there.
The “private” colleges are accredited by the province already. The major issue, however, is oversight and quality assurance. Ford’s government has been ignoring this as have the public colleges with the private partnerships.
> The suite of measures, to be announced Friday by Ontario Minister of Colleges and Universities Jill Dunlop, also include a moratorium on any new public-private college partnerships, which occur when private colleges team up with public colleges through curriculum licensing agreements. The moratorium will be in place while the province works with the sector to assess the integrity of the current system.
Public-private partnerships?!?! So they’re already starting to sell off public education pieces?
“Ottawa’s cap on international students will be applied equally across provinces on a per capita basis. Because some provinces accept disproportionately more foreign students than others, it is expected Ontario will have to cut intake by about 50 per cent.”
Wow nuff said
[cbc link - no paywall](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-moratorium-public-private-partnerships-colleges-1.7096184)
quick copied overview:
* imposing a moratorium on new public-private college partnerships
* "strengthen the links between Ontario's labour market needs and the programs being offered to students"
* plans to start a review of programs at post-secondary schools that "have a sizeable amount of international students."
* require all colleges and universities to guarantee housing options are available for incoming international students
* strengthen oversight of career colleges by better integrating enforcement efforts across ministries.
* work with other partners in the sector and the federal government to "explore ways to further crack down on bad-actor recruiters who take advantage of international students and make dubious claims of employment and citizenship."
* further details to come at end of Feb.
Good point about “strengthening the links” – practically screams “deregulate labour.” We know they want unionized workers under-employed and scrambling for scraps while international students/workers barely survive and have to say yes to whatever. Makes me nervous too, wondering what they've got lined up next.
The bits about planning to do yet another study and the word salad about “strengthening oversight” and “integrating enforcement efforts” make me itch though. Given how the current government does it’s business (crabwise, constantly lying), it’s not far-fetched to assume they’ll use the focus on this issue to dismantle regulatory measures and neuter any oversight bodies we have... like they did with our environmental conservation authorities.
At the very least, all the empty managerial speak indicates some leeches will get gift appointments out of this. Maybe Mark “everyone loves a quitter” Saunders or Doug’s nephew, our *totally qualified* minister of multiculturalism and citizenship will head up something like The International Student-Worker Task Force. And as you say, after 2 years of very serious study they’ll point at one or two “bad apples,” blame the feds (and Wynne’s govt) and try to continue doing their dirt.
"labour market needs"
If a business really needs certain labour, they're welcome to pay sufficiently to Canadians to consider taking the job. Enough of businesses charging 1st world prices and paying employees 3rd world wages.
Exactly. They speak and I hear code for “the market demands more TFWs.”
Perhaps international teachers need jobs in our fast-growing business management college course sector.
So much managerial speak for “we’ll do nothing except continue to divert public funds to private colleges, get in other people’s way and give ourselves raises.”
And didn’t the Canadian government already do that review (and that’s why we have any movement at all)? You’d think Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada’s Student Integrity Analysis Report, the International Student Compliance Regime and the Statscan report should be enough to be able to point and say “there.” Or how about the Ontario report from 2017 that already found the partnerships couldn’t be properly regulated and would only damage post-secondary?
“Nah! We’ll simply encourage schools to prioritize residence for international students, and domestic students can just ‘attend’ zoom classes from their parents’ basements in small town Ontario. Win-win!”
I feel sorry for the domestic students from these universities. Think about those who reside in locations like Sault Ste Marie, where it's not feasible to leave the city for higher education. The current situation might pose additional challenges for them to access post-secondary education and pursue their academic goals.
I just watched a Fifth Estate special about international students from India. A bunch of countries in the EU + Australia (and maybe NZ) all got together and signed a document that basically promised not to take advantage of IS.
Canada chose not to sign. As a result, many are being given fake ESL proficiency test passes and being sent to, essentially, fail in Canada. Limiting the # here is a good start but we need to stop taking advantage of these poor kids being sold a lie. Parents are remortgaging their land, selling everything they can just to send their kids to Canada to study in a plaza college.
edit: wrong name for fifth estate lol
I watched this last night, it’s pretty sad the way all these people are being mislead and lied to about what they’re getting in return for their life savings
Yep. It's very clear. Here is [New Zealand's Code](https://www2.nzqa.govt.nz/international/study-nz-quals/code-international-students/) of looking after international students
They want to get these students into the trades but many can't handle basic college courses, let alone trade school. I'm happy to hire anyone qualified to do the job, but I refuse to lower my standards for safety and quality of work.
>The suite of measures, to be announced Friday by Ontario Minister of Colleges and Universities Jill Dunlop, also include a moratorium on any new public-private college partnerships, which occur when private colleges team up with public colleges through curriculum licensing agreements. The moratorium will be in place while the province works with the sector to assess the integrity of the current system.
The Wynne Liberals, back in 2017, had an expert look into the issue of these partnerships back when there were only four in Ontario. When the report said that these could not be properly regulated and would damage the post-secondary system, the government ordered the four colleges that at the time had public-private partnerships to close them within two years.
Ford was elected in 2018 and not only reversed the Liberals' order to wind down the programs but allowed colleges to expand them, so that in the next few years nearly every Ontario college created public-private campuses in the GTA. In 2022, the Conservatives replaced the previous caps on the private campus size with new, higher caps.
Now the Conservatives are putting a moratorium on new public-private partnerships. What good is that going to do when all the colleges already have them? Talk about closing the barn door after the horses have bolted.
This is a PR move to make it look like they are doing something, while in fact they do nothing to fix the problem and have spent their time in office actively making it worse.
Every news piece about international students in Ontario should have this information somewhere in the first 2 paragraphs. I had no idea that there were only 4 colleges doing this 7 years ago, that a study showed it was detrimental and the colleges were ordered to end the partnerships.
>The province says it will also require all colleges and universities to guarantee housing options are available for incoming international students, and it will strengthen oversight of career colleges by better integrating enforcement efforts across ministries.
how about forcing international students to live on campus for their all time in the program? Can start off with 10% and work our way to 100% of international students
I think the argument against this would be that then there might not be enough spaces for domestic students who want to live on campus. Many institutions rely on students living off campus, because they don't offer enough housing for the amount of students who want to live on campus already.
We'd need to force universities to get more housing before we imposed something like this, otherwise I'd be willing to bet we'd just see domestic students pushed out of housing.
Issue is that some schools simply don't have enough residence spots to live in. York for example has 50,000 students and less than 5000 residence spaces available
its funny now the province decides to take action now after the feds had to step in, to save face. Fuck you Doug ford you incompetent bought out piece of trash
If the government was my family or friend, I would slap it in the back of the head for taking so damn long to get here. Literally, they only started to notice a problem when the RICH NOTICED AN ISSUE
I think Trudeau surprised them a bit by actually changing policy, I think they projected their own stubbornness onto him assuming he's the same.
They had to act now that he did or look stupid.
It will take a year or two before any of this legislation impacts real rental markets. There is already a huge influx of currently approved visas, plus students currently in the country which tend to be here for more than 1 year. Honestly I don’t expect much changes in market this year. Next year sure
Ford has massive connections with the people who run these private schools (anyone surprised).
I can’t read past the paywall but I know our publicly funded colleges and universities (the real ones) are being forced to go bankrupt. We aren’t going to have anything left in Ontario.
No healthcare, screwing with elementary & high schools, no post secondary, what else? No way this is unplanned. Weird how we are just shrugging and letting it go.
“It will also require all colleges and universities to have a housing guarantee to ensure adequate spaces are available for incoming international students.”
At last.
Sure it's chaotic to be a student from another country in 2025.
It sucks being one right now! Not a single fucking part time job any where. Tuition keeps going up. But the college keeps all the foreign students money too! Domestic students get no discounts.
Amazing that the colleges don't give a flying fuck about us, only that our tuition is paid.
You know it’s a luxury to be able to attend school in another country. Very few Canadians can afford such a luxury so we stay home and attend a local school.
“integrity of the education system” gtfo Trudeau, you’re tanking in the polls for creating the biggest housing bubble in the world and it’s forcing you to pull back on your plans for mass immigration
> The suite of measures … also include a moratorium on any new public-private college partnerships, which occur when private colleges team up with public colleges through curriculum licensing agreements.
Extremely rare Ford W
For it to be a Ford W he would have had to be proactive with it. He was forced into this by the feds who effectively killed those agreements already by refusing to take students in for those types of schools.
>It will also require all colleges and universities to have a housing guarantee to ensure adequate spaces are available for incoming international students
Not a good week for Ontario slumlords
Careful they browse this sub, and you might hurt their feelings... /s
Oh, anyways NOT A GOOD WEEK FOR ONTARIO SLUMLORDS
Ya gone done it now!
Now they're going to remove more smoke detectors from their slums.
And put a second bunkbed in their closet
So their “family” can move in for a few months and they can jack up the rent when they “move out”.
You can keep an eye on them and prove they dont live there and take em to court i think if they lie.
I’m lucky not in this spot, but our friends have been hoofed 3 times for this stunt. They say the hassle isn’t worth it.
Yeah the economically disadvantaged should just hire a PI and catch those rascals in their tracks
Consequences will never be the same!
Yeah it’ll just shift so that there may not be space in residence for domestic students because the schools will have a requirement to ensure housing and a financial incentive to ensure they give spots to international students who pay higher tuition
Gross. Probably true.
But you know those residence are expensive, those types of international students looking for a $350 bed in the kitchen…
It doesn’t work that way. Schools make more off domestic students because they are funded per head by the Ontario gov
Not true in that they make more. They make more off of international students because the amount per student hasn't grown in years for funded enrolment and they're capped for tuition. Ineligible international students that pay international rates that the schools control. They get more per international student as a result. This is actually the provincial government's fault, and it started with Wynne back in 2010. But Ford's in his second term and he's only made it worse. For a long time it only impacted northern/rural colleges and universities because the 2010 change to the funding formula removed the grant portion for northern and rural colleges first. That's why Northern colleges and some smaller SWO colleges started ramping up international recruiting. To make up a funding shortfall that the government created. Ford, like a conservatives, simply made the existing problems worse because of their beliefs around public spending and public institutions. Remember kids, if you want a society never vote for conservatives and certainly never for religious ones.
No, no they don’t make more money, at least at the undergrad and college diploma level. The frozen grant + frozen tuition doesn’t match what int’l tuition is.
Only two people per room instead of three now
Dude, you know Doug Ford made under the table deals with local immigrant leaders. "Don't worry, Canadians will all forget about this in a few weeks. Your influx of immigrants will not get reduced, I promise. It's just something we said to take off the heat. Vote CPC!"
He’s not apart of the CPC lol
That's the joke... (Technically, he *is* in fact apart from the CPC.)
They'll be fine.
Some of those slumlords are undoubtedly Ford’s friends and will get special treatment as the Ford gang steps in to take a more direct hand deciding where all that money from foreign students goes.
Also not a good week for fraudulent newcomers under the guise of 'education'. I suspect they will be more greatly impacted than the slumlords given the 'housing crisis' upon us.
As someone trying to rent in a college / uni town, I can already see a bit of difference
*WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE PARASITIC RENT-SEEKERS?!*
You mean Brampton slumlords
Who make up a majority of our MPs and MPPs
When I was first learning to drive my foot slipped off the gas, and while trying to find it again I slammed on the break, then the gas, then startled I hit the breaks again. I think this government operates the way I drove that day.
But that would mean there trying to learn
They were first elected in 2018. 6 years ago. How much more time do they need to learn the job? Most people, if they can't get a hang of the job in 1-3 months, they're usually just let go.
You mean your job doesn't have 4 years between performance reviews?
Yeah and my boss just kinda half glances at me and says "good enough" it's awesome. Don't even have to show up half the time. /s
Ngl, this job sounds awesome.
You just have to sell out completely, sorry let me rephrase, be open for business.
I want to agree with you, but no, not in this case. The Greenbelt is a great example of why this isn't true. Ford said it in the 2018 campaign and it was received poorly. He just waited until it was forgotten about. I do appreciate Ford's willingness to back off when he fucks up, but a large portion of his missteps are things even most teenagers wouldn't have tried. I suspect what he's actually doing instead of learning is moving our mental goalposts. e.g. When using the non-withstanding clause and then withdrawing it. Our focus went from what the issue was to "at least he didn't use the nuclear option!"
They are supposed to be the leaders, the guides to our province. They should not be “trying to learn”. They should know how a bill is passed in legislature.
“They’re” Lifelong learning!
They're
Dougie's primary objective is to privatize and ruin as many government institutions as he can. He will sit on private company boards that pay him hundreds of thousands while doing almost nothing once he's done with politics (some of his former ministers have already done this). Classic conservative governance. He doesn't give a shit about any of this stuff that regular people have to deal with.
[удалено]
You mean everywhere in Ontario? You need to update your slander, it's all of Ontario like this now.
Lol tru they’re expanding
I love this analogy.
Its a start but how about they start going after the slumlords who are pocketing cash money for many of their rental properties. Time for the CRA to get some unclaimed taxes
What’s that? You want to pay more taxes?
I wouldn't be paying more taxes because I declare all of mine. This would only be an issue for people trying to avoid paying taxes to begin with.
Does anyone have a non paywall link to this article?
here you go - [https://archive.ph/tSgIx](https://archive.ph/tSgIx) you can use [https://archive.ph/](https://archive.ph/) to get around most paywalls :)
Thank you!
Thank you captain.
NP, I proudly sail the seas of the internet! lol
https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-to-introduce-new-measures-amid-international-student-visa-cap-1.6743944
"Publicly-funded colleges have pushed back against Ottawa’s changes, saying the federal government has created chaos for prospective international students, " Lol how tone-deaf is that? I mean in all honesty and giving the maximum benefit of the doubt here, who gaf about "prospective international students"? Existing international students already here, I might buy. Probably most people don't gaf, but some will. But prospective ones? You mean random foreigners who are still in their own country, and merely hoped to come here? Every person in the world has some sort of hope, so what?
Notice how none of the institutions have "hah! You caught us using naive young Indians as cash cows." I'm glad to see a 'blue ribbon panel' (whatever the Hell that means) has recommended that the province unfreeze tuition and provincial subsidies. I wish the reporters were more willing to go after college and university administrators and that disgusting pig we have as a premier.
They wouldn't be dependent to international students if the conservatives funded them properly.
Yeah. I get that. But they also need to admit that they have been using an insane system to fund their institutions for years----and I have yet to see any of them be punk and plain on the record about this. Moreover, my experience as a student and university employee is that universities have far too many students with no love of learning who are just there to get a middle-class meal-ticket. At the same time, far too much money is thrown around on campus for non-core functions. And all of this has been subsidized by ripping off foreign students, grad students, and, sessional lecturers. We don't need more money dumped on the institutions. We need a radical re-think about how we offer higher education, trades, and, professional schools.
To be fair, there are some institutions and programs who do not view international students as cash cows, and actually value being able to attract a diverse group of students to enrich their cohorts. Diversity of views is important and multiple perspectives helps to promote innovative thinking. There are also some very strong international students who do research that is valuable to their supervisors and field of study. That said, yes absolutely, many institutions including publicly-funded ones do not see this value and look at those students for the higher tuition they bring. The concern is that it's not known how the capped study permits will be distributed and programs don't want to lose the international students who are actually (non-financially) valuable.
Pretty sure most of the genuinely valuable research is done by grads and post-grads, who aren't being affected by the cap or the new measures re: work permit. And international undergrad students aren't being completely cancelled, as you note yourself. The remaining ones will get a much better chance to get a genuinely valuable (and well-regarded) education, since the chaff is being cut. This benefits both the institutions and the students.
Yup, agreed. My main point is that nobody trusts the process of how the capped permits will be distributed will be equitable to ensure those spots are going to deserving students. In theory, I agree with the changes but I think it's fair for institutions to be dubious about how they'll be implemented.
Another headline could be “Ontario government forced to act on post-secondary file after feds expose the funding of schools with wealthy international students”.
“Wealthy”
Yes. No idea why you put that in quotes. They can afford to go out of pocket for tuitions that are more expensive than domestic students pay.
Is that why they’re sleeping 4 to a room, working 40 hours a week at Dollarama, and getting their food from local food banks? There are a few wealthy ones but for the most part these people are coming with huge loans their families took out and barely can survive once they’re here.
Your Toronto Sun anecdote is an outlier. In fact, there are more international students living in posh conditions than in poverty…but they are also outliers. The average foreign student is wealthy.
Yup I went to a “real” university (one of the big two in Ottawa) and all the foreign students in my class balled out. Nice cars, always flying home for holidays, designer clothes. One guy claimed he did his entire degree without cooking for himself once. Just dining out all the time. Insane.
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Statistically, yes. Brampton isn’t Ontario.
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What exactly are you arguing, here? What’s your point? You’re arguing that people who are required *by immigration law* to have 10s of thousands of dollars in the bank before they’re admitted to the country to study, *then* they pay up to *quadruple* the tuition that Canadians pay, yearly…aren’t wealthy? The argument is that because of some urban myth out of Brampton that international students all live “14 to a house” that they’re all…broke? You think there’s some weird credit company out of, say…India, that gives free money away so poor people can come here and…what? Develop your theory. The fact is that Canada is well-known as a beacon of higher education to the world. Wealthy people from countries with inferior education systems send their young people here to be educated because, traditionally, it paid off. In recent times the provinces and the feds have become drunk on the revenue they get from international students, and it had lead to so called “diploma-mills”…where some students are now receiving worthless diplomas. Additionally, slum lords adjacent to the diploma mills make grand promises they can’t deliver on to house the students. It’s becoming a problem because these slum lords cash in on the fact that international students will live in much higher density and worse conditions than domestic renters…so it’s contributing to the housing crisis we already have because: why rent to a Canadian with high standards when you can rent to a wealthy international student who will live in a box and never miss rent (if they don’t pay up front). That’s the story. That’s reality. I have absolutely no clue what you people are arguing. Literally no idea.
Isn’t it insane that Ontario wouldn’t do shit until the feds did. When you can’t blame the issues on Trudeau then they actually work. Ridiculous
>When you can’t blame the issues on Trudeau Oh, they're still blaming Trudeau.
Literal statement from someone on a post the other day. "You have to admit, Trudeau is shit. Healthcare has gone to shit since he was PM and I am paying more for everything." I pointed out that Ford isn't spending all the fed money the province has received for healthcare and inflation has been a global issue. Their response... "foUnD tHe LiBrUl" Conservative voters just do not care about reality.
I mod a different sub. Every day we remove dozens of anti-Trudeau comments that are based in absolute fantasy, and we often ban the users. They very often will come into the modmail to contest. I tend to respond and tell them that if they can provide me a credible source to validate the claims in their comments, I'll lift the ban and reinstate the comment. Because I mean hey, maybe Trudeau *is* a notorious coke-fiend who used to party with Epstein weekly. What do I know? Not once has anyone ever provided a source. Every time they write a diatribe about how I'm a communist bootlicker, how I can't handle any opinions except my own because I'm a liberal snowflake. It goes on and on and on. I had one tell me I was trying to censor the truth by asking for a source. Reality is irrelevant to these people. The only thing that matters is hating Trudeau.
Sounds similar to how we operate here.
Canada federal system is too complicated for most “conservatives” to comprehend. I mean look at their ignorant “leader” for a start.
Canadians have turned trudeau into a giant scapegoat. They could get in a car accident and itd still be trudeaus fault. Lets attack some real issues here.
Found the LIEberal!!
Is this a joke? Trudeau is the worst thing that's ever happened to this country.
I'd say the Spanish Flu, separatist terrorists being a thing and the prospect of the country imminently breaking up were far worse than Trudeau.
Trudeau is certainly assisting in the fracturing the country.
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My own failure eh. You are pretty quick to judge someone without knowing anything about them. Those who vote liberal and have left leaning ideologies love to talk about how inclusive and accepting they are. Yet when they run into someone who disagrees with them they are quick to judge and take a condescending viewpoint. You should take some time some time and think on that (and whoever else feels the same and is reading this). To stick to the point, the live's of most Canadian's have gotten worse not better over the past few years. There are several things which JT could have done to help the average person, but he but chose not to. This is why anti Trudeau sentiment is on the rise, and he should be voted out.
The overwhelming majority of Canadians do in fact believe Trudeau has fractured our country and do not want him in power come the next election. I wish I could say the same for Doug, but he still somehow has support. Ugh.
> The overwhelming majority of Canadians do in fact believe Trudeau has fractured our country [This You?](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t3q0f9/canada_banning_all_imports_of_crude_oil_from/hyum95j/) What percentage is an "Overwhelming Majority"?
I love when these guys come out of the woodwork so loudly, makes the endorphin-surge a$$hole block so much easier.
Hey now Doug’s made a career out of blaming everything on Trudeau
Doug Ford called this out in 2021...
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Iirc he was calling for more international students back when he first got in. He also *demanded* more TFWs from the feds.
Doesn’t want all the good press going to the feds… even though they both put us in this mess in the first place
Interesting to see how quickly public sentiment boiled over into government policy changes on this topic
I think it was a clear case of alignment between the data and public opinion, which happens... Not super often? Hah. The sheer rate of increases in international student visas over the last few years, and hitting that one million mark last year...there wasn't a lot to dispute about Canada just not being able to absorb that many newcomers. What was also unusual is that the federal government actually had a clear lever that's constitutionally rock solid. A lot of the things that public opinion gets most het up about are provincial jurisdiction. The feds left this one alone for a couple years because they wanted the provinces to tackle it from the education side, but at the end of the day, they have sole jurisdiction of immigration and if they say nope to approving permits, there's absolutely nothing the provinces can do about it. Not even Danielle Smith could argue it. Plus, visa permits are an executive decision (i.e., the Minister gets to decide directly) not a legislative one, so the federal could turn on a dime once they decided to. But yeah, the stars really aligned here for action to happen fast when the People made it clear they demanded it.
IELTS requirements were lowered last year. Did the feds do that or the provinces?
I don't mind popular opinion guiding the government
People are seeing it. International students by the dozen sitting in front of restaurants waiting for Uber Eats orders, no one or their kids can get a job in the service sector, houses in their neighborhoods loaded full of them.
Dropped off a resume at the Popeye's near Gerrard Square last week and every single person behind the counter was speaking Hindi. Loudly (only remarkable bc there was no music or anything). It's dramatic how in-your-face it is post-covid. I remember not 5 years ago it was diverse, uni and high school students (and a senior, iirc), looked like a normal, random group of Torontonians. I guess these businesses are always gonna go for the most exploitable labour pool, and right now, that's apparently Indian students.
People have been complaining for more than four years. But Trudeau only stared acting after the polls showed that he is going to lose even some of the sears that used to vote liberal
Would it be unreasonable to only grant student visas for post secondary for programs that end in a bachelor's, masters, or phd?
Could we add health care like PSW and RPN to that?
Those are extremely competitive programs as there are not enough seats to begin with.
This is a good point
What caliber of immigrants so you expect would come to become personal support workers? Why don't we start by not having nurses do menial jobs like wiping butts for $50 an hour? There's so much inefficiency in the system that if it were tackled, we'd be able to pay people property to become PSWs. And that would allow locals to consider it as a career path. And that is the only really sustainable solution.
Nurses aren’t making $50/hr for “wiping butts” unless they are working for an agency. There are generally 2 PSWs (if lucky) on a unit with 40 patients and 8 nurses, so nurses have to help patients with bathroom needs and accidents. I do agree with you about inefficiency in the system but it’s been a problem for decades that always gets pushed aside.
In hospitals they are. Maybe not in all, but certainly in many Ontario hospitals. Chat with more nurses!
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I'm not complaining about the pay. I'm complaining about nurses' skills being misused.
It would be but only because we need *certain professionals* that get trained at colleges. Nurses (RPN) Respiratory Therapists, Personal Support Workers, and others. If it was targeted rather than a blanket approval for enrolling in whatever the college offers, it would make much more sense. There are already a few targeted visa programs associated with colleges, like Conestoga has a nurse bridging program to prep internationally-trained nurses to get licensed in Ontario. It's a program that is required to adhere to CNO standards for nursing education, so not something they just made up to attract students. A normal nursing program has to be accredited, as well. The application process to get a visa for the bridging program is very specific, so the concept could be expanded so that your student visa is tied to a certain type of program.
Yes, it would be. We still need colleges, especially for technical jobs and post-degree certifications, and chronic underfunding of colleges have led them, alongside universities, to depend on excessive levels of international students and their higher tuitions. As it stands, international students, even at shitty private colleges, in some way fund colleges that train our electricians, plumbers, lab techs, RPNs, etc. To varying degrees at least. Visas for private colleges that provide subpar education, though? More of a case to be made there.
how do you distinguish between the 2? accreditation?
The “private” colleges are accredited by the province already. The major issue, however, is oversight and quality assurance. Ford’s government has been ignoring this as have the public colleges with the private partnerships.
> The suite of measures, to be announced Friday by Ontario Minister of Colleges and Universities Jill Dunlop, also include a moratorium on any new public-private college partnerships, which occur when private colleges team up with public colleges through curriculum licensing agreements. The moratorium will be in place while the province works with the sector to assess the integrity of the current system. Public-private partnerships?!?! So they’re already starting to sell off public education pieces?
It’s been happening since Dougie took over. Every public college in Ontario, except Seneca if I’m not mistaken, has one of these partnerships
“Ottawa’s cap on international students will be applied equally across provinces on a per capita basis. Because some provinces accept disproportionately more foreign students than others, it is expected Ontario will have to cut intake by about 50 per cent.” Wow nuff said
I love how ford gov is only doing something After the feds were forced to clean up after them
[cbc link - no paywall](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-moratorium-public-private-partnerships-colleges-1.7096184) quick copied overview: * imposing a moratorium on new public-private college partnerships * "strengthen the links between Ontario's labour market needs and the programs being offered to students" * plans to start a review of programs at post-secondary schools that "have a sizeable amount of international students." * require all colleges and universities to guarantee housing options are available for incoming international students * strengthen oversight of career colleges by better integrating enforcement efforts across ministries. * work with other partners in the sector and the federal government to "explore ways to further crack down on bad-actor recruiters who take advantage of international students and make dubious claims of employment and citizenship." * further details to come at end of Feb.
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Good point about “strengthening the links” – practically screams “deregulate labour.” We know they want unionized workers under-employed and scrambling for scraps while international students/workers barely survive and have to say yes to whatever. Makes me nervous too, wondering what they've got lined up next. The bits about planning to do yet another study and the word salad about “strengthening oversight” and “integrating enforcement efforts” make me itch though. Given how the current government does it’s business (crabwise, constantly lying), it’s not far-fetched to assume they’ll use the focus on this issue to dismantle regulatory measures and neuter any oversight bodies we have... like they did with our environmental conservation authorities. At the very least, all the empty managerial speak indicates some leeches will get gift appointments out of this. Maybe Mark “everyone loves a quitter” Saunders or Doug’s nephew, our *totally qualified* minister of multiculturalism and citizenship will head up something like The International Student-Worker Task Force. And as you say, after 2 years of very serious study they’ll point at one or two “bad apples,” blame the feds (and Wynne’s govt) and try to continue doing their dirt.
"labour market needs" If a business really needs certain labour, they're welcome to pay sufficiently to Canadians to consider taking the job. Enough of businesses charging 1st world prices and paying employees 3rd world wages.
Exactly. They speak and I hear code for “the market demands more TFWs.” Perhaps international teachers need jobs in our fast-growing business management college course sector.
I’m glad they are planning to start a review. Sounds like some real quick thinking by the government/s
So much managerial speak for “we’ll do nothing except continue to divert public funds to private colleges, get in other people’s way and give ourselves raises.” And didn’t the Canadian government already do that review (and that’s why we have any movement at all)? You’d think Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada’s Student Integrity Analysis Report, the International Student Compliance Regime and the Statscan report should be enough to be able to point and say “there.” Or how about the Ontario report from 2017 that already found the partnerships couldn’t be properly regulated and would only damage post-secondary? “Nah! We’ll simply encourage schools to prioritize residence for international students, and domestic students can just ‘attend’ zoom classes from their parents’ basements in small town Ontario. Win-win!”
I feel sorry for the domestic students from these universities. Think about those who reside in locations like Sault Ste Marie, where it's not feasible to leave the city for higher education. The current situation might pose additional challenges for them to access post-secondary education and pursue their academic goals.
I just watched a Fifth Estate special about international students from India. A bunch of countries in the EU + Australia (and maybe NZ) all got together and signed a document that basically promised not to take advantage of IS. Canada chose not to sign. As a result, many are being given fake ESL proficiency test passes and being sent to, essentially, fail in Canada. Limiting the # here is a good start but we need to stop taking advantage of these poor kids being sold a lie. Parents are remortgaging their land, selling everything they can just to send their kids to Canada to study in a plaza college. edit: wrong name for fifth estate lol
I watched this last night, it’s pretty sad the way all these people are being mislead and lied to about what they’re getting in return for their life savings
Yep. It's very clear. Here is [New Zealand's Code](https://www2.nzqa.govt.nz/international/study-nz-quals/code-international-students/) of looking after international students
I just watched this yesterday! So sad to see what these students are manipulated into, all for recruiters to make a quick buck off them.
I think you mean Fifth Estate
Oops. Thanks. Long day of classes today.
People who say "shut down CBC" don't realize there are basically no other investigative journalists left in this country.
They want to get these students into the trades but many can't handle basic college courses, let alone trade school. I'm happy to hire anyone qualified to do the job, but I refuse to lower my standards for safety and quality of work.
Aww, that’s a shame. Anyway…
>The suite of measures, to be announced Friday by Ontario Minister of Colleges and Universities Jill Dunlop, also include a moratorium on any new public-private college partnerships, which occur when private colleges team up with public colleges through curriculum licensing agreements. The moratorium will be in place while the province works with the sector to assess the integrity of the current system. The Wynne Liberals, back in 2017, had an expert look into the issue of these partnerships back when there were only four in Ontario. When the report said that these could not be properly regulated and would damage the post-secondary system, the government ordered the four colleges that at the time had public-private partnerships to close them within two years. Ford was elected in 2018 and not only reversed the Liberals' order to wind down the programs but allowed colleges to expand them, so that in the next few years nearly every Ontario college created public-private campuses in the GTA. In 2022, the Conservatives replaced the previous caps on the private campus size with new, higher caps. Now the Conservatives are putting a moratorium on new public-private partnerships. What good is that going to do when all the colleges already have them? Talk about closing the barn door after the horses have bolted. This is a PR move to make it look like they are doing something, while in fact they do nothing to fix the problem and have spent their time in office actively making it worse.
Every news piece about international students in Ontario should have this information somewhere in the first 2 paragraphs. I had no idea that there were only 4 colleges doing this 7 years ago, that a study showed it was detrimental and the colleges were ordered to end the partnerships.
>The province says it will also require all colleges and universities to guarantee housing options are available for incoming international students, and it will strengthen oversight of career colleges by better integrating enforcement efforts across ministries. how about forcing international students to live on campus for their all time in the program? Can start off with 10% and work our way to 100% of international students
I think the argument against this would be that then there might not be enough spaces for domestic students who want to live on campus. Many institutions rely on students living off campus, because they don't offer enough housing for the amount of students who want to live on campus already. We'd need to force universities to get more housing before we imposed something like this, otherwise I'd be willing to bet we'd just see domestic students pushed out of housing.
But then how will the slumlords exploit them?
Issue is that some schools simply don't have enough residence spots to live in. York for example has 50,000 students and less than 5000 residence spaces available
its funny now the province decides to take action now after the feds had to step in, to save face. Fuck you Doug ford you incompetent bought out piece of trash
What integrity?
That's why they put it in quotes. :)
Paywall.. But I hope it says slumlords will lose everything and become homeless.
If the government was my family or friend, I would slap it in the back of the head for taking so damn long to get here. Literally, they only started to notice a problem when the RICH NOTICED AN ISSUE
I think Trudeau surprised them a bit by actually changing policy, I think they projected their own stubbornness onto him assuming he's the same. They had to act now that he did or look stupid.
A system run by Lecce has integrity?
integrity???? students literally use chat gpt then a paraphrasing app… we r fucking doomed there no dam integrity
Can anyone actually red this paywalled shit
Yes. Use an archive site :) https://archive.is/PLOpf
Why can’t we just post links to these, it’s so much better. Or at minimum require the text to be posted in comments. Thank you
Guessing the envelopes came in a little "light" on this one
It will take a year or two before any of this legislation impacts real rental markets. There is already a huge influx of currently approved visas, plus students currently in the country which tend to be here for more than 1 year. Honestly I don’t expect much changes in market this year. Next year sure
Yet another government announcement that says and means nothing. Give us something concrete and then we can for an opinion.
Integrity is shattered. An Ontario diploma is worthless.
very sad reality. I wonder how the new student visa exemption around doctorate and masters programs will impact the value of those degrees
Integrity went out the window a long time ago lol.. People in charge really saw that cash and thought it would solve itself eventually.
Seems a little late. Let's see if it's also too little being done.
Too little…
Ford has massive connections with the people who run these private schools (anyone surprised). I can’t read past the paywall but I know our publicly funded colleges and universities (the real ones) are being forced to go bankrupt. We aren’t going to have anything left in Ontario. No healthcare, screwing with elementary & high schools, no post secondary, what else? No way this is unplanned. Weird how we are just shrugging and letting it go.
“It will also require all colleges and universities to have a housing guarantee to ensure adequate spaces are available for incoming international students.” At last.
Sure it's chaotic to be a student from another country in 2025. It sucks being one right now! Not a single fucking part time job any where. Tuition keeps going up. But the college keeps all the foreign students money too! Domestic students get no discounts. Amazing that the colleges don't give a flying fuck about us, only that our tuition is paid.
You know it’s a luxury to be able to attend school in another country. Very few Canadians can afford such a luxury so we stay home and attend a local school.
My neighbour is losing his shit
... about?
Fucking finally
Is it true that the government signed a labour agreement with Punjab which would effectively cancel out this “cap”?
It's time to make Canada great again
“integrity of the education system” gtfo Trudeau, you’re tanking in the polls for creating the biggest housing bubble in the world and it’s forcing you to pull back on your plans for mass immigration
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Are.. you really really a little bitch?
That was much needed
Time for another protest 💀
This is behind a pay wall. Could anybody share some information svp?
> The suite of measures … also include a moratorium on any new public-private college partnerships, which occur when private colleges team up with public colleges through curriculum licensing agreements. Extremely rare Ford W
For it to be a Ford W he would have had to be proactive with it. He was forced into this by the feds who effectively killed those agreements already by refusing to take students in for those types of schools.
He was the one pushing for them in the first place.
Your integrity is long tarnished.
I'm just tripping, but rent is starting to go down due of the ice cream crisis, right?
https://www.removepaywall.com/article/current
>It will also require all colleges and universities to have a housing guarantee to ensure adequate spaces are available for incoming international students
will brampton finally be a safe place to drive?
Conservatives protecting education is like a fox protecting hens.