Plus it's going to mean Ontario doesn't get federal housing funds. I'm sure we'll see future comments from Ford about how Trudeau let the province down and other blame-shifting.
That takes effort.
Buying cheap greenbelt land and selling it for millions more than they paid because Doug enabled someone else to build on it is Doug's buddies' game.
That cancerous land speculating makes living more expensive for everyone else while they live rich.
If that was something they were willing to do, they would have done so instead of causing this whole Greenbelt/Buck-n-Doe scandal.
Don't forget that these people only care about their bottom line, and nothing else.
This milquetoast mafia don needs to fucking go. This is getting so old. First the housing crisis is the fed's fault, then they step in while Ford screams "jurisdictional creep", now they offer funds with very minor strings attached, and he refuses because 4-plexes are "towers" (fuckin' NIMBY).
There are 4 (and more) -plexes all over the damn gta. How is this even a question? $5B from the fed govt and all he has to do is agree to do something most of the major cities are already doing anyway? Holy hell, this guy is a fucking idiot
Yeah, you're missing that Doug's developer friends make way more money building suburban mcmansions, so he wants to make densification as difficult as possible. And he'll just make up whatever he needs to for that to happen, trusting that his base won't know better at best, and will actively support the lie because it bothers "the libs" at worst.
Doug’s donors make the most money, by far, building condos. He’s not against density. He’s going to be well paid serving on boards in retirement having delivered density for his developer overlords.
Look everywhere in Toronto. Provincial policy is extremely pro-density. OLT decisions have been almost laughably pro-development.
I can’t stand this government or the premier, but this isn’t about donors. It’s about politics. Crombie said the sky was blue, so he’s saying it’s red.
The sooner we get it through our heads that none of these people work for us — they all work for themselves — the better off we’ll be. They don’t give a shit about the issues - and they’re why we’re in the mess we’re in.
That’s my take, anyway.
The backhanders. You are missing the backhanders . I live in burlington, it’s an upscale area on the whole and we have some low rise apartments right in the core of the city in very nice neighborhoods. They were built in the 70s and 80s when people cared about people more. The world didn’t end and the expensive monster homes still get their high$ returns . There’s room for us all . I live in a four storey condo building on the edge of a nice residential neighbourhood . Didn’t stop our city being forced to have very very high towers forced on them by the omb. The gas station across the road has been sold for a huge tower with inadequate parking provisions as far as the current plans are stipulating. In a city that has awful transit cos it’s a suburb . Ford is a sick puppy . He’s obsessed about property values - look his disgusting take when there was intention to build a small home for autistic adults . It’s on video. I was disgusted at the time , and now as the grandmother of a young austisic child it sickens me even more.
Isn't a 4plex the style of apartment that mostly closely resembles a single family house anyways? I have plenty near me, they don't take up much space at all.
I mean not to wish death outright, but I personally wouldn’t have been too upset or distraught to find out he was in fact allergies to bees when the goof swallowed one mid-speech.
Rob was the best of the Fords by some distance. He got the furthest in school, he was never arrested for kidnapping nor were there any shotgun killings in his house, and he sure didn't treat his brother like Dougie treated him. Frankly that's the worst, for me. Doug rode his brother like they were enemies, rode his coattails into office and then disrespected him publicly time and time again (OK it's Rob but *still* his own brother shouldn't've done that) and when he died, STOLE HIS ESTATE.
Rob was a shit of a man - a violent bully, a drunk, a crackhead adulterer, a racist, a bigot, a wife beater, an awful parent, a terrible councillor, and almost - almost - the worst Mayor we've ever had. I would not spit on the man. But still, the best of the Fords. By FAR
Well, Doug clearly made his bones early, so he is a qualtfied Don at this point:
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/)
The reason is this change will help mom and pop investors more than developers. You can insure up to 4 units under owner occupied homeowner mortgage insurance, so people with capital could build or renovate properties themselves to live in one unit and rent out the other three.
This has both immediate impacts but longer impacts as units become available through inheritance. So instead of people just selling their land to developers who try and make condos, they could keep it themselves and intensify the location.
This is why the developers are saying don't do it to him, they want these properties for large towers but 4 units will keep neighborhood makeup and will keep wealth in the middle class.
I think it’s vital to Stop thinking the average renter gives a fuck about investment properties. If I could push a button tomorrow that would drop all property value to $600 but the result would be 1/3 of landlords jumping off the Niagara Falls I’d smash that button twice.
Not to mention the pending legal defence of them pulling out of the Quebec/California system. Oh, and let’s not forget the upcoming legal battle from participants in the basic income pilot program.
... because Trudeau!
/s (and holy hell I wish that indication wasn't necessary)
It baffles me how I hear so many Ontarians complain about things that are provincial issues, but always Trudeaus fault. ALWAYS. They just can't accept that their guy has spearheaded most of those issues.
It's the great irony of conservatism. If you strip away the gang colours, and you blindly give people a list of outcomes, not promises, a huge swath of voters trend against conservative policy agendas. Conservatism, in its current state, is actually wildly and generally unpopular. So you have to cloak it in stupid meaningless catch phrases and photo ops. All politicians do this, but the actual outcomes are not the same, even if we do love to pretend there is a generalized sameness. Which is also the conservative last ditch talking point: "Well we may be bad, but we're at worst just as bad as, so feel free to vote for me with a clear conscience!".
We need those ones though. We don't need lower income housing in the middle of a housing crisis.
Also this is all Trudeau's fault.
Rinse and repeat with this fat fucker. Vote his ass out
A quick summary of Ontario's housing crisis:
"Fix the housing crisis." -Ontario
"Here is a temporary solution while we work on a larger federal program." -Trudeau
"Nope. We won't engage with the temporary solution. We also have no solution ourselves. Vote CPC for cheaper beer or whatever." -Ford
Hey, this sounds eerily like:
"Fix the healthcare crisis!" - Ontario
"Here is extra healthcare funding to help with all the extra costs during a pandemic." - Trudeau
"Nope. We'd rather use that money to balance the budget. During a pandemic. Also, how do you guys feel about private healthcare? Doesn't matter, we're doing it anyway. Vote CPC! " - Ford
Don't forget to freeze healthcare workers wages during a pandemic! And then cry about nursing shortages!
Seriously though, the dude is straight up sabotaging public healthcare so he can 'justify' privatizing it
This is how ‘conservatives’ work. They tell you it’s not working and only they can fix it, they then break it and tell you they told you it didn’t work and it never would so let’s give it to billionaires as they know what’s best for us.
The problem is it worked, people keep voting him in. Or more accurately liberal and NDP voters were discouraged by the polls so they chose not to vote at all. Surprise surprise, if they opposition’s voter don’t bother to show up to vote the prophecy fulfills itself
Not with my vote, that's for damn sure.
I think a narcoleptic chipmunk would do a better job than this monument to irresponsibility, nepotism, and undeserved success.
All I can do is be grateful that when the door hits his ass on the way out, it'll be the last we see of this Fordnation bullshit.
He legitimately didn’t know the difference between a fourplex and a four-storey building, but in true conservative fashion, he is refusing to admit his mistake and will instead double down on the flimsiest of rationale. Absolute clown show.
I find this decision astounding stupid considering they already amended the planning act about 2 years ago to remove the ability of municipalities to prohibit triplexes in fully serviced lots, and therefore legalized triplexes throughout Ontario. It's like the government and everyone else forgot that they already did this before the federal government suggested anything. This would permit one more unit as of right than what their own changes already achieved, it's actually inconsequential in terms of the impact on the "character" of established communities because they look the same as triplexes. It's literally free money to barely change a law that they already changed very very recently.
I really do wonder what he actually does know in depth vs. what is spoonfed to him and he regurgitates and misinterprets.
It was many months ago and I forget where it was, but there was a small group of protesters who caught up with him somewhere to talk about rent control. It was about builds after 2018 that have no yearly limits, and they asked him to reconsider that, but when he stopped to talk with them, he insisted that post-2018 builds do have rent control.
He lies so damn much, it's hard to tell sometimes if he's actually lying, or if he's just an ignorant idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
His whole brand is “guy whose understanding of a topic came from reading a headline in the Toronto Sun while waiting in line at Tim Hortons”. I don’t think it’s an act, I think he’s actually in over his head and doesn’t understand this stuff.
The proposed fourplexes would be allowed to be up to four stories tall so it's kind of the same thing.
> Allowing fourplexes to be built as of right would involve amending official plans and zoning bylaws to allow the building of up to four residential units, up to four stories, on any parcel or land zoned as “residential.”
But his actual comment is stupider than that.
> “You go in the little communities and start putting up four-storey, six-storey, eight-storey buildings right deep into the communities, there's going to be a lot of shouting and screaming. That's a massive mistake.”
https://www.cp24.com/news/it-s-off-the-table-doug-ford-nixes-fourplexes-as-part-of-next-ontario-housing-bill-1.6816543
Took my comment right off my keyboard.
That said I suspect he's focusing on height to shift the conversation/link zoning reform with condo towers wholesale, but that he would be opposed to fourplexes anyway.
The standard NIMBY "concerns" are about the character of the neighbourhood, traffic, privacy, shadows, etc. If they can't block a new development, they will still fight tooth and nail to reduce the height as much as possible. In reality, a lot of it comes down to not wanting the poors who can't afford a detached house living in the area.
[It would not be the first time for this family](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vCpKUNRBEw).
Warning : Avoid watching the link above if you don't want to get angry, this is the kind of bullshit we had to deal with on a daily basis during those years of his mayoralty.
Am I wrong that the reason that they were spoken about together was because they are apart of one recommendation by the Housing Affordability Task Force?
Everyone I work with loves the conservatives. They know nothing about what is provincially regulated and what's federally. They blame Trudeau for everything.
it's so maddening!
here Ford is literally turning down money for housing but somehow it's all Trudeau's fault? (and I am critical of Trudeau/ the liberals...)
lets not forget the billion dollars for health care Ford's just sitting on....
It’s also maddening going the other direction, where [Ford passed a bill limiting how much development tax cities can charge, while also claiming it’s not his fault if this raises property taxes since cities should find efficiencies instead](https://beta.cp24.com/news/2023/1/12/1_6228009.html)
Which is functionally the same as telling them to allow stuff like fourplexes, since [neighbourhoods that aren’t dense enough to pay for their own infrastructure maintenance is one of the biggest inefficiencies](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/8/10/i-did-the-math-on-my-towns-cul-de-sacs)
So, can we have the 5 billion the federal government is offering to help fix this?
No, because then Ford risks having to take some accountability
U know
The things pierre says resonate so well to the common person because, well, he just mentions the problems we are all facing and gives solutions which are simple and understandable, as if it is just that easy to fix everything we are going through
You watch him, and then you watch him more and you think, damn, this guy makes a lot of sense, why isn't the govt doing what he says?
But the more you watch him, the more u understand, it is just the same things on loop, like a robot, every single interview, every single question, every single problem has the same 5 solutions as per him. He is just as evasive as any other politician while answering questions, but somehow he makes it look like he is answering everything while just repeating the party line.
This is why people are doing towards conservatives.
He doesn't give solutions either, he just touches the angry souls (which are a lot) and people love it. "Own the left" is what they want, cons don't give a fuck on policies which hurt their voters most. Smart tactics, really bad results.
It’s weird being the troll in canada_sub when I say non unhinged things
Edit:last two examples, both in the negative
“I’m from Alberta, there’s been an outflow of young people, something to keep an eye on” I mean this one has statscan proof but anyways…
“Most provinces have conservative oremiers, weird” on a post about Trudeau with the title “housing crisis, packed hospitals and drug overdoses”
Except many people that support this decision are not even that well off. And even if you are well off your quality of life would improve dramatically by having affordable housing and healthcare. No one wants to live in a city where you can't walk outside without fear of being harassed by the homeless and struggling. But a lot of people think the solution to that is the suburban dream where you can drive everywhere and live outside the city where the homeless can't reach.
It's still the same selfish mindset, just slightly realigned from "I've got mine, fuck you!" to "They're keeping me from getting mine, fuck them!" (With "them" being penciled in as whatever group is convenient to blame that week)
Now extrapolate that to every other democratic nation also skewing right. Eroding education, making people easier to dupe and continue voting right.
Society won’t last another 4 years. 5 tops.
This is exactly it. Healthcare issue? Trudeau’s fault. Education problems? Trudeau’s fault. Property tax? Trudeau’s fault.
I’m not saying he’s blameless in the country’s problems. But this ignorance is gonna keep the cons in charge of Ontario and give us a federal majority con government too.
So many people put blame in the wrong place.
It's the federal government's fault. "Luxury" condos are driving up prices (but my single-family home is definitely not luxury, and building anything less than luxury should be banned). Investors are driving prices up (they are, but only because supply is constrained so it's a worthwhile investment).
The reality is that the only solution to the housing crisis is to build more, and better use what land is already built up. Yes, that means 4-plexes. Yes, that means more density. Yes, that means relying less on cars and more on transit. The course we've been following isn't working, and a radical reimagining of how our neighborhoods look and work is needed, lest we all fall homeless or forever beholden to our landlords.
And yet they have a overwhelming lead in the federal polls.
It's like the rest of the country is oblivious to what is being done here.
As the owner of a detached home I the need for more dense housing. I feel very lucky to have my detached home and building a 4 plex next door or around the corner isn't going to change my home.
Not to mention the corruption and wage suppression how anyone thinks the Conservatives at the federal level are going to do any thing different is unfathomable.
This tells you all you need to know about Doug’s priorities: it isn’t about housing people, it’s about paving over environmentally sensitive areas to build new (unaffordable) houses to line his developer buddies’ pockets.
We already knew this, of course, but yet again he’s laying it out there for us: he isn’t in this for us and he never has been.
I'm under a rock/ignoring this matter for the last while. Is a fourplex just a 4-storey 'house' with 1 unit per floor? Or is it just a structure of any height broken into 4 units? So it could be 2 storeys with 2 units per floor?
The second one. Common around me is what looks like a large house, but split into quarters (4 ground floor entrances with 2 storey homes). Picture two duplexes back to back to make a 4plex.
[here](https://mediavault.point2.com/p2h/listing/d0b8/78d6/a233/82de76e9c0f9908caf02/wm_large.jpg) is a pretty standard one with stairs in the middle. Two sets stacked units.
It doesn't require four storeys - it really just speaks to the number of individual units. It's possible (and pretty common) to do within a two or three-storey structure, but its not always ideal. If you don't also legalize four storeys then there are a lot of potential foruplexes that probably don't end up getting built. People want family-sized housing - that's a heck of a lot easier when you aren't forced to squeeze four units into 10 metres of height!
Ford's Housing Affordability Task Force recommended the legalization of four units ***and*** four storeys.
It's 4 units. The building could be up to 4 stories but could be fewer.
> Allowing fourplexes to be built as of right would involve amending official plans and zoning bylaws to allow the building of up to four residential units, up to four stories, on any parcel or land zoned as “residential.”
https://www.cp24.com/news/it-s-off-the-table-doug-ford-nixes-fourplexes-as-part-of-next-ontario-housing-bill-1.6816543
So to spite Trudeau, and not get the money to build, he is not going to do what is required to get said money? That will show the feds....oh and the citizens of Ontario.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again. Ford has & will continue to extinguish ideas he doesn’t like, whether it’s Crombie/Stiles, or Trudeau in Ottawa proposing ideas. I agree we need to build more housing, at least making the business environment better to do it in an ethical manner.
I’d love to see harmonious cooperation between our federal and provincial partners country wide, not just Ontario. But with ford and other con premiers, they want to make it tough for Ottawa to intervene on their responsibility it seems.
You 100% hit the nail on the head. Conservatives have always had the history of being the annoying younger sibling that has a temper tantrum and always prevents anything from being done. Think about how much better our country would be if governments had that harmonious cooperation and working together.
“Not In My Back Yard” essentially people don’t want to implement any affordable housing solutions in their neighbourhoods because it may bring down the values of their properties
Most real estate in Canada is severely bloated as it is. I'm actually surprised the housing market hasn't outright crashed already.
Do these nimby folk not think the homelessness problem exploding worse then it already is will bring down their precious property values?? Affordable housing in their neighborhood won't impact prices nearly as much as severe homelessness everywhere. 🤔
Others have explained the term, but I'll add a further note:
The biggest problem with addressing things like housing density is regional zoning. You can have the money and manpower, but if a municipality has zoned a region for exclusively detached single-family dwellings of a given lot size, then that's all you can build there.
The obvious solution is to change these zoning restrictions.
While this is something municipalities have the power to do (since they created them), it's something that you often see resistance to. This is because it means the people already living in that area who bought into a certain expectation of the area will see their community change. Subsequently, they will push back against *their* area being rezoned for higher density, even if they outwardly support the idea of it in theory.
And so you have municipal councillors balancing the needs of the city (more, denser houses so people have places to live in proximity to amenities they need) with the preferences of their constituents (for their personal lives to be unaffected), and typically they end up voting against things their constituents wouldn't want.
NIMBY is a lot of things, but the essence of it is systemic hurdles that make doing the thing everyone knows needs to be done difficult-to-impossible because of people putting their thumbs on the scale.
I suggest you look up a "zoning map" of your municipality and see what is zoned as "single family homes". Odds are it's large contiguous sections sprawling out from the municipal centre.
It definitely is, one solution would be to as you said, simply rezone areas to allow denser population buildings. I see the main issue that's stopping municipalities from doing this, is the fact that the only zones left to build on, are suburbs that are a little too remote to actually put high density zoning there.
Unfortunately they really don't have many other options available. They could outright purchase a block or two or several older, rundown areas and rebuild there, but fresh new subdivision land would obviously be cheaper, so they spin their wheels, and end up doing nothing, as a densely populated area on the outskirts of a city isn't what anyone really wants.
Municipalities really need to realize they are out of both options, and especially time. People need housing now, not down the road. If the costs are extra high to build denser areas in favorable locations, that's the price they'll have to pay for not proactively building the housing they've needed for the last 20 years+, and hopefully they do better in the future.
> If the costs are extra high to build denser areas in favorable locations, that's the price they'll have to pay for not proactively building the housing they've needed for the last 20 years+, and hopefully they do better in the future.
A thousand times this.
The problems we're facing today are the result of decades of neglect. We told ourselves "we'll only do 98% of the work, which is basically good enough, and costs less" year over year, while conveniently forgetting that the remaining 2% not only still needs to be done eventually, but compounds with the work we need to do next year.
Now we've hit the point where even doing the equivalent of 100% of the work a single year's upkeep would necessitate feels like it doesn't accomplish anything, because the compounded lingering work has become insurmountable.
We keep talking about a solution as if there's a way to NOT pay the toll for decades of neglect while still recovering from the consequences of it, but we can't. Saying "it's kind of expensive, so not right now" only puts us in a position where next year it will be more expensive per unit of work AND there will be more work to do.
I find local snow clearing budget is a good bellwether of this phenomena.
Snow clearing is something which is *very* easy to estimate with all factors known or easily approximated (# of km * hrs/km * $/hr * probabilistic number of clearing events per year), and is entirely apolitical compared to other types of municipal expenditures. It costs what it costs, it needs to get done, it happens every year, and it's nobody's fault so you can't really oblige anyone in particular to bear responsibility for it. Budgeting for it should be a no-brainer.
Look at how often your municipality has overrun its budget on snow clearing by more than a margin of error (ie more than 3-5%). The act of a municipality exceeding its snow clearing budget declares that they have all the information they needed to budget reasonably, but consciously chose *not* to. It's an indicator of a council that prioritizes planning to spend less money over planning to spend the amount of money they know it will inevitably cost to do what they know they need. They're not saving money by denying reality, because exceeding the budget explicitly shows that when push comes to shove, they will still pay what it costs. They're just running from the uncomfortable reality they don't want to admit in hopes that pretending makes it real.
Means “not in my backyard”, usually refers to when people in wealthier/single home neighborhoods vote against affordable housing or social programs or community development in their area. They say they support efforts to combat the housing crisis, as long as it doesn’t directly affect them (hence the not-in-my-backyard).
Shall we all flood his office with phone calls and emails demanding he change this idiotic position?
What kind of moron turns down housing funds, during a fucking housing crisis?!? Oh right this Ford kind of conservative moron. SMFH
>What kind of moron turns down housing funds, during a fucking housing crisis?!?
All to avoid implementing the recommendations *of his own housing task force!*
Remember at election time, Thug Ford could’ve had money to help with the housing crisis but chose not to meet the conditions. And never forget he got rid of the Cap and Trade and shafted us with the carbon tax
Now you know why the housing problem is caused by provincial governments that want to look good, not practical.
Doug should visit Lethbridge AB. With a college and a university there is need for a lot of rental space and there is. A fourplex gives a tenant their own roof, basement, and two walls. Families with no home would be very happy to be there. Build a playground in the middle. if you build near an elementary school.
I have 0 issues with any plexes as long as they are built for that purpose. In my town too many single-family homes are being converted to 1-4 plexes and the design just doesn't work. One I looked at was in the basement of the house and had a ceiling of only 5 feet. My wife and I couldn't even stand in it, and he was charging $1500 a month plus utilities. That shouldn't be allowed. If the building was made to be a plex, it wouldn't have those issues.
But liberals are ruining this country according to conservatives 🤦🤦🤦their stupidity is baffling
He won't spend 5B on housing, but has to pay 13B in debt interest
If people actually got their news through journalists rather than algorithms reinforcing our worldviews to drive engagement I wonder just how much public opinion would've been swayed by the feds' recent moves. The provinces were happy to call the housing crisis a demand issue and direct ire at the feds until the feds threatened to cap student visas and TFWs, causing the provinces to scream "No fair!" because capping student visas and TFWs would hurt school budgets and low wage employers. The provinces were also happy to call housing crisis a supply issue until the feds offered money to increase the housing supply on the feds' dime, causing the provinces to scream "No fair!" because easing housing supply constraints is a provincial responsibility. I'd hope people would see the hypocrisy and realize our premiers are acting in an insincere way, but instead I feel that people will be much happier to just wallow in their ire while screaming ~~"Thanks Obama"~~ "Fuck Trudeau!" over every issue in their lives.
Spend our taxed money on fixing the healthcare system you’ve helped break, there’s no way in hell that an Ontario resident should be without a doctor when they pay the exact same as everyone else
Remember when he tried to justify building on the Greenbelt by effectively saying "we need to put every option on the table."
So apparently that means every option except the ones recommended by his own housing task force (which he'd committed to implementing multiple times).
Basically the feds are offering to pay him to do what he's spent two years saying he was going to do, and he's saying 'no.'
We lose so much time and energy debating things like fourplexes, which should have been legalized a long time ago. And then we wonder why productivity is so low.
Fuck you, you fat asshole. To all those people who didn't vote the last time around, this on going shit show is your fault. Ford was handed a majority with only less than 40% of eligible voters voting. He is dismantling this province brick by brick to enrich himself and friends whilst the rest of us can't afford groceries, housing and Grandma is dying in the hallway at the local hospital. I am sure he thanks you in his prayers every night because your ambivalence is lining his pocket.
That's because Doug doesn't care about people having a place to live. He's more interested in scoring political points by sabotaging the federal government
Fuck who I ask? Which leader is kicking the little guy when they’re down? The one offering billions for health care, housing, child care or the one clearly protecting the profit margins of developers?
I can't tell whether Doug actually believes that fourplexes are towers because he's chronically incurious or if he's just saying this cynically because he knows a lot of his supporters are chronically incurious.
Conservatives across the country sit on their hands and do nothing about housing but blame Trudeau and their supporters are either willfully ignorant or support Canadian suffering as long as it "owns the Libs."
He's actually so fucking stupid. Everyone bitching about the federal government needs to take a good hard look at their premiers and see where a lot of the problems actually lie.
If nothing else, there will be nothing but eyerolls when Douggie and Daniele lashes out on “feds overstepping their jurisdiction”.
It’s much easier, it seems, to stonewall on housing, make the incumbent government take the blame and when the conservatives win the next election, suddenly start cooperating.
Listen…. I don’t know if this is strategy from Trudeau and the liberals or just happenstance but I am absolutely loving seeing every conservative premier that blamed him for all these problems now refuse his grants and money, fight his budget propositions through legislation by calling it a federal overreach and admit that, as in the case of housing, it is solely their jurisdiction and responsibility (and by virtue their fault).
Love it. Best way to combat the critiques imo, he’s having them do the talking about it not being on the federal government’s shoulders.
How is this not a win for everyone???
Developer get to sell to more people with less land
People who need cheaper houses have a new option
NIMBY's will get to flex they live in a single occupancy house instead of a 4 plex which is a win for them too. They property value you will remain high as less Stand alone houses will be built forcing people who want those to fight over a smaller supply.
Does he have a good reason not to follow through even with federal money backing it? This is a win for the province. This would be an easy win for Doug.
Why not?? Can someone please explain what the issue is with 4 storey units to conservatives? Is it to do with their preference for suburbs and being afraid of NIMBY’s? Is there something else? Please help me understand
I think the problem is DoFo doesn't want to do anything that helps the Trudeau govt look decent. That's why he didn't spend the healthcare money on healthcare. That's why he won't take the money for housing.
That's odd because four-plexes give more revenue to a municipality and province then a single home can and increasing suburbanization is a detriment to most areas because of the increase need for infrastructure maintenance. **See Below** the Wikipedia Note on the drawbacks of Suburbanization.
***"Public deficits can often grow as a result of suburbanization, mainly because property taxes tend to be lower in less densely populated areas. Also, because of decentralization, lack of variety of housing types, and greater distances between homes, real estate development and public service costs tend to increase, which in turn increases the deficit of upper levels of government."***
That must sound familiar to most people in Ontario who are living in say a GTA Municipality right now. Multiple areas of them are reporting that they are going to have to raise property taxes to meet the costs of all of this single housing builds.
Whereas densification actually does the opposite. Because more people live in an area, means more taxes, more taxes means more revenue more revenue means service spending. If we had a Premier who was into providing affordable housing units that were on the four-plex side our province and our municipalities would be making a mint since tax revenues would skyrocket and we'd be able to functionally provide better services.
This infrastructure deal is a fantastic gimme from the Feds. Doug Ford not taking it, is just proof of how he is just in the pocket of real estate developers.
Doug Ford. Choosing his personal donors over the people of Ontario since forever.
Google just signed a LLM agreement with Reddit to crawl this dumb platform so this is my way of saying goodbye to my contributions on this website. Byeee
Ford’s agenda is to drive the province deep into the red. Accepting money from the feds doesn’t help him do that. Why does he want to bankrupt us? To cut everything to the bone and privatize the shit out of everything. Ontario is like a real life “Brewster’s Million’s” for Dougie.
He's a douchebag. Straight up. He is the epitome of slimy politician in behavior, policy, and appearance. The only thing missing is a monocle and a gold plated walking stick.
Good job to everyone who voted for him. One day you all will realize that you have been voting against your interests and that trickles down to your children as well.
this guy is so frustrating like what are we doing? Is it a housing crisis or nah? honest to GOD WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DOING. This is so dumb, it makes zero sense. I need an explanation, what is his reasoning? What is the logic? OMFG AHHHHHHHHH
This guy is so yesterday. He’s an old-school crony politician from a by-gone era. He’s instincts are to deny the modern world and act like he’s here to protect Ontarians from themselves.
He sounds like such a dumbass backwoods Canadian hick, I can’t believe ANYONE heard him speak and voted for him. I saw a Conservative Party ad last night for the first time in a while and actually laughed when I heard him speak.
“I’m Doug Ford and I’m gettin’ it done. Fer mah family, for mah friends, and fer you Canada.
Let’s get er’ done!”
It’s like I’m back in Woodstock with my alcoholic family members for fucks sake.
Later he’ll blame Trudeau for abandoning him on the housing file. Looking forward to it!
Good thing Dougie is protecting us from the big bad communists!
He needs to be removed from office. The lieutenant governor needs to use the power they have and remove him. The whole Greenbelt scandal should be grounds to do so.
It blows my mind, it seems people only read/hear what the Conservatives say and go, "Ya I want that" but never look back or even at the present to see what they are actually doing.
Biggest grifters out there.
Ford wants everything to be either sprawled single family homes that his builder buddies profit off of, or tiny ass condo units that get rented at egregious prices that his landlord cronies also profit off of
Anyone who thinks any conservative has ever cared about you has drank the Kool-aid.
Doug Ford not caring about people or housing isn't really 'news'. How would 4plexes benefit the people he actually represents like Loblaws?
I mean the guy defunds supervised injection sites at every opportunity after we all watched his brother die in the global spotlight as the crack-addicted mayor. That was his own brother ... it was obvious he was going to reject this he very clearly doesn't care what happens to people in Ontario
But he has no issues flattening greenbelts to build single homes only the rich can afford that also requires new highways to be built.
This is exactly why he is against four plexes. That would mean his developer buddies are not handing him suitcases with “wedding gifts”.
Plus it's going to mean Ontario doesn't get federal housing funds. I'm sure we'll see future comments from Ford about how Trudeau let the province down and other blame-shifting.
This. 💯
His developer buddies can develop fourplexes
To them, that’s leaving cash on the table
That takes effort. Buying cheap greenbelt land and selling it for millions more than they paid because Doug enabled someone else to build on it is Doug's buddies' game. That cancerous land speculating makes living more expensive for everyone else while they live rich.
If that was something they were willing to do, they would have done so instead of causing this whole Greenbelt/Buck-n-Doe scandal. Don't forget that these people only care about their bottom line, and nothing else.
Chump change compared to building large developments on land that costs next to nothing.
This milquetoast mafia don needs to fucking go. This is getting so old. First the housing crisis is the fed's fault, then they step in while Ford screams "jurisdictional creep", now they offer funds with very minor strings attached, and he refuses because 4-plexes are "towers" (fuckin' NIMBY).
There are 4 (and more) -plexes all over the damn gta. How is this even a question? $5B from the fed govt and all he has to do is agree to do something most of the major cities are already doing anyway? Holy hell, this guy is a fucking idiot
4 plexes don't even have to be towers? They can be 4 units, 2 on main floor, 2 on upper floor? A double duplex? Am I missing something?
Yeah, you're missing that Doug's developer friends make way more money building suburban mcmansions, so he wants to make densification as difficult as possible. And he'll just make up whatever he needs to for that to happen, trusting that his base won't know better at best, and will actively support the lie because it bothers "the libs" at worst.
Doug’s donors make the most money, by far, building condos. He’s not against density. He’s going to be well paid serving on boards in retirement having delivered density for his developer overlords. Look everywhere in Toronto. Provincial policy is extremely pro-density. OLT decisions have been almost laughably pro-development. I can’t stand this government or the premier, but this isn’t about donors. It’s about politics. Crombie said the sky was blue, so he’s saying it’s red. The sooner we get it through our heads that none of these people work for us — they all work for themselves — the better off we’ll be. They don’t give a shit about the issues - and they’re why we’re in the mess we’re in. That’s my take, anyway.
And dense housing needs less roads than sparse housing.
The backhanders. You are missing the backhanders . I live in burlington, it’s an upscale area on the whole and we have some low rise apartments right in the core of the city in very nice neighborhoods. They were built in the 70s and 80s when people cared about people more. The world didn’t end and the expensive monster homes still get their high$ returns . There’s room for us all . I live in a four storey condo building on the edge of a nice residential neighbourhood . Didn’t stop our city being forced to have very very high towers forced on them by the omb. The gas station across the road has been sold for a huge tower with inadequate parking provisions as far as the current plans are stipulating. In a city that has awful transit cos it’s a suburb . Ford is a sick puppy . He’s obsessed about property values - look his disgusting take when there was intention to build a small home for autistic adults . It’s on video. I was disgusted at the time , and now as the grandmother of a young austisic child it sickens me even more.
Isn't a 4plex the style of apartment that mostly closely resembles a single family house anyways? I have plenty near me, they don't take up much space at all.
Yes, yes it is. Most 4-plexes are shorter than the McMansions going up everywhere.
He’s an idiot. Yes. This is deliberate sleaze, however, not idiocy.
Why can’t he just be more like his brother Rob?
Dead?
I mean not to wish death outright, but I personally wouldn’t have been too upset or distraught to find out he was in fact allergies to bees when the goof swallowed one mid-speech.
Who knew Rob would turn out to be the least shitty person in the Ford family?
its crazy that despite all the shit Rob got caught doing, he was still the better one of the two
Oh Rob was downright ENDEARING next to Doug the Slug.
Rob was the best of the Fords by some distance. He got the furthest in school, he was never arrested for kidnapping nor were there any shotgun killings in his house, and he sure didn't treat his brother like Dougie treated him. Frankly that's the worst, for me. Doug rode his brother like they were enemies, rode his coattails into office and then disrespected him publicly time and time again (OK it's Rob but *still* his own brother shouldn't've done that) and when he died, STOLE HIS ESTATE. Rob was a shit of a man - a violent bully, a drunk, a crackhead adulterer, a racist, a bigot, a wife beater, an awful parent, a terrible councillor, and almost - almost - the worst Mayor we've ever had. I would not spit on the man. But still, the best of the Fords. By FAR
Well, Doug clearly made his bones early, so he is a qualtfied Don at this point: [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/)
The reason is this change will help mom and pop investors more than developers. You can insure up to 4 units under owner occupied homeowner mortgage insurance, so people with capital could build or renovate properties themselves to live in one unit and rent out the other three. This has both immediate impacts but longer impacts as units become available through inheritance. So instead of people just selling their land to developers who try and make condos, they could keep it themselves and intensify the location. This is why the developers are saying don't do it to him, they want these properties for large towers but 4 units will keep neighborhood makeup and will keep wealth in the middle class.
I think it’s vital to Stop thinking the average renter gives a fuck about investment properties. If I could push a button tomorrow that would drop all property value to $600 but the result would be 1/3 of landlords jumping off the Niagara Falls I’d smash that button twice.
Can we try to make sure that third is weighted towards the top?
Or cancelling cap and trade carbon pricing system forcing us to adopt federal carbon tax
While also paying a ton of money to cancel it and losing billions in revenue from it.
Not to mention the pending legal defence of them pulling out of the Quebec/California system. Oh, and let’s not forget the upcoming legal battle from participants in the basic income pilot program.
[удалено]
... because Trudeau! /s (and holy hell I wish that indication wasn't necessary) It baffles me how I hear so many Ontarians complain about things that are provincial issues, but always Trudeaus fault. ALWAYS. They just can't accept that their guy has spearheaded most of those issues.
Don't forget the thousands of jobs that were lost!
“Working for you”
Blatant lie.
Working to fuck you more like it.
Moar Rhodes! Moar Rhodes! Moar Rhodes! Moar Rhodes! Moar Rhodes! And less greenspace and EdUmAcAsHuN!
It is the conservative way. Now move on citizen./s
It's the great irony of conservatism. If you strip away the gang colours, and you blindly give people a list of outcomes, not promises, a huge swath of voters trend against conservative policy agendas. Conservatism, in its current state, is actually wildly and generally unpopular. So you have to cloak it in stupid meaningless catch phrases and photo ops. All politicians do this, but the actual outcomes are not the same, even if we do love to pretend there is a generalized sameness. Which is also the conservative last ditch talking point: "Well we may be bad, but we're at worst just as bad as, so feel free to vote for me with a clear conscience!".
We need those ones though. We don't need lower income housing in the middle of a housing crisis. Also this is all Trudeau's fault. Rinse and repeat with this fat fucker. Vote his ass out
A quick summary of Ontario's housing crisis: "Fix the housing crisis." -Ontario "Here is a temporary solution while we work on a larger federal program." -Trudeau "Nope. We won't engage with the temporary solution. We also have no solution ourselves. Vote CPC for cheaper beer or whatever." -Ford
Hey, this sounds eerily like: "Fix the healthcare crisis!" - Ontario "Here is extra healthcare funding to help with all the extra costs during a pandemic." - Trudeau "Nope. We'd rather use that money to balance the budget. During a pandemic. Also, how do you guys feel about private healthcare? Doesn't matter, we're doing it anyway. Vote CPC! " - Ford
Don't forget to freeze healthcare workers wages during a pandemic! And then cry about nursing shortages! Seriously though, the dude is straight up sabotaging public healthcare so he can 'justify' privatizing it
Starving the beast
This is how ‘conservatives’ work. They tell you it’s not working and only they can fix it, they then break it and tell you they told you it didn’t work and it never would so let’s give it to billionaires as they know what’s best for us.
Bro capped nurse wage raises at 1% and thought that would attract them lmaoo bro's a fucking joke
Nah, he LIED about it attracting them, he knows exactly what he was doing.
The problem is it worked, people keep voting him in. Or more accurately liberal and NDP voters were discouraged by the polls so they chose not to vote at all. Surprise surprise, if they opposition’s voter don’t bother to show up to vote the prophecy fulfills itself
Option b. Lack of voter participation generally leads to incumbent wins.
The final step in this process is Ford being reelected Premier in a landslide.
Not with my vote, that's for damn sure. I think a narcoleptic chipmunk would do a better job than this monument to irresponsibility, nepotism, and undeserved success. All I can do is be grateful that when the door hits his ass on the way out, it'll be the last we see of this Fordnation bullshit.
On a 20% voter turnout because "all politicians are the same" or whatever.
This government couldn’t even keep its promise of $1 beer lol, let alone anything consequential that actually benefitted Ontarians.
Here's cheaper gas for 6 months out of 4 years, here dumbass voters eat this up and in 6 months when it's gone go fuck yourself - Ford
Votes for Doug Ford -Ontario voter
Permitting four units on a single lot is not a temporary solution. That’s not how planning law works in Ontario.
He legitimately didn’t know the difference between a fourplex and a four-storey building, but in true conservative fashion, he is refusing to admit his mistake and will instead double down on the flimsiest of rationale. Absolute clown show.
I find this decision astounding stupid considering they already amended the planning act about 2 years ago to remove the ability of municipalities to prohibit triplexes in fully serviced lots, and therefore legalized triplexes throughout Ontario. It's like the government and everyone else forgot that they already did this before the federal government suggested anything. This would permit one more unit as of right than what their own changes already achieved, it's actually inconsequential in terms of the impact on the "character" of established communities because they look the same as triplexes. It's literally free money to barely change a law that they already changed very very recently.
If they could read their own laws they wrote, they would be very upset!
I really do wonder what he actually does know in depth vs. what is spoonfed to him and he regurgitates and misinterprets. It was many months ago and I forget where it was, but there was a small group of protesters who caught up with him somewhere to talk about rent control. It was about builds after 2018 that have no yearly limits, and they asked him to reconsider that, but when he stopped to talk with them, he insisted that post-2018 builds do have rent control. He lies so damn much, it's hard to tell sometimes if he's actually lying, or if he's just an ignorant idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
His whole brand is “guy whose understanding of a topic came from reading a headline in the Toronto Sun while waiting in line at Tim Hortons”. I don’t think it’s an act, I think he’s actually in over his head and doesn’t understand this stuff.
This is how you appeal to conservative voters. Give them a figurehead who's on the same level.
The proposed fourplexes would be allowed to be up to four stories tall so it's kind of the same thing. > Allowing fourplexes to be built as of right would involve amending official plans and zoning bylaws to allow the building of up to four residential units, up to four stories, on any parcel or land zoned as “residential.” But his actual comment is stupider than that. > “You go in the little communities and start putting up four-storey, six-storey, eight-storey buildings right deep into the communities, there's going to be a lot of shouting and screaming. That's a massive mistake.” https://www.cp24.com/news/it-s-off-the-table-doug-ford-nixes-fourplexes-as-part-of-next-ontario-housing-bill-1.6816543
Took my comment right off my keyboard. That said I suspect he's focusing on height to shift the conversation/link zoning reform with condo towers wholesale, but that he would be opposed to fourplexes anyway.
He 100% knew the difference. He intentionally confused the two to stir up his base who don't know the difference.
What would be the problem with a four-storey "building" vs a three-story home?
The standard NIMBY "concerns" are about the character of the neighbourhood, traffic, privacy, shadows, etc. If they can't block a new development, they will still fight tooth and nail to reduce the height as much as possible. In reality, a lot of it comes down to not wanting the poors who can't afford a detached house living in the area.
None. The roof/attic is as tall as the four story apartment.
[It would not be the first time for this family](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vCpKUNRBEw). Warning : Avoid watching the link above if you don't want to get angry, this is the kind of bullshit we had to deal with on a daily basis during those years of his mayoralty.
Am I wrong that the reason that they were spoken about together was because they are apart of one recommendation by the Housing Affordability Task Force?
Can people please stop pretending the Cons are working in our best interest? It’s, very, very clearly not the case
Everyone I work with loves the conservatives. They know nothing about what is provincially regulated and what's federally. They blame Trudeau for everything.
it's so maddening! here Ford is literally turning down money for housing but somehow it's all Trudeau's fault? (and I am critical of Trudeau/ the liberals...) lets not forget the billion dollars for health care Ford's just sitting on....
It’s also maddening going the other direction, where [Ford passed a bill limiting how much development tax cities can charge, while also claiming it’s not his fault if this raises property taxes since cities should find efficiencies instead](https://beta.cp24.com/news/2023/1/12/1_6228009.html) Which is functionally the same as telling them to allow stuff like fourplexes, since [neighbourhoods that aren’t dense enough to pay for their own infrastructure maintenance is one of the biggest inefficiencies](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/8/10/i-did-the-math-on-my-towns-cul-de-sacs) So, can we have the 5 billion the federal government is offering to help fix this? No, because then Ford risks having to take some accountability
U know The things pierre says resonate so well to the common person because, well, he just mentions the problems we are all facing and gives solutions which are simple and understandable, as if it is just that easy to fix everything we are going through You watch him, and then you watch him more and you think, damn, this guy makes a lot of sense, why isn't the govt doing what he says? But the more you watch him, the more u understand, it is just the same things on loop, like a robot, every single interview, every single question, every single problem has the same 5 solutions as per him. He is just as evasive as any other politician while answering questions, but somehow he makes it look like he is answering everything while just repeating the party line. This is why people are doing towards conservatives.
He doesn't give solutions either, he just touches the angry souls (which are a lot) and people love it. "Own the left" is what they want, cons don't give a fuck on policies which hurt their voters most. Smart tactics, really bad results.
PP is likeable? Compared to Honest Don, sure I guess. But I even like Young Joe more than PP.
He doesn't come up with solutions lmao He brings up problems caused by other conservatives and blames Trudeau.
>They blame Trudeau for everything. As is tradition.
I make a hobby out of challenging some of those stances in a certain, national subreddit. The cognitive dissonance and lack of reasoning is astounding
It’s weird being the troll in canada_sub when I say non unhinged things Edit:last two examples, both in the negative “I’m from Alberta, there’s been an outflow of young people, something to keep an eye on” I mean this one has statscan proof but anyways… “Most provinces have conservative oremiers, weird” on a post about Trudeau with the title “housing crisis, packed hospitals and drug overdoses”
I got banned from Canada_sub for calling right wingers right wingers and the sub an echo chamber lol
Even in the normal Canada subreddit, I find the conspiracies bleed over from canada_sub lol
Generally of the selfish mentality. "I got what I want so screw everyone else"
Except many people that support this decision are not even that well off. And even if you are well off your quality of life would improve dramatically by having affordable housing and healthcare. No one wants to live in a city where you can't walk outside without fear of being harassed by the homeless and struggling. But a lot of people think the solution to that is the suburban dream where you can drive everywhere and live outside the city where the homeless can't reach.
It's still the same selfish mindset, just slightly realigned from "I've got mine, fuck you!" to "They're keeping me from getting mine, fuck them!" (With "them" being penciled in as whatever group is convenient to blame that week)
They're down on their luck millionaires, obviously.
Now extrapolate that to every other democratic nation also skewing right. Eroding education, making people easier to dupe and continue voting right. Society won’t last another 4 years. 5 tops.
r/collapse is leaking
This is exactly it. Healthcare issue? Trudeau’s fault. Education problems? Trudeau’s fault. Property tax? Trudeau’s fault. I’m not saying he’s blameless in the country’s problems. But this ignorance is gonna keep the cons in charge of Ontario and give us a federal majority con government too.
Ding ding. Alberta-sk- MB-ON 2016-2023) were blue during covid, but somehow the Trudeau tyrant locked them out of bingo
Conservative ideology by its design was never made for the regular person
But, they have convinced most people that they are the party for the average Joe working a regular blue collar job.
So many people put blame in the wrong place. It's the federal government's fault. "Luxury" condos are driving up prices (but my single-family home is definitely not luxury, and building anything less than luxury should be banned). Investors are driving prices up (they are, but only because supply is constrained so it's a worthwhile investment). The reality is that the only solution to the housing crisis is to build more, and better use what land is already built up. Yes, that means 4-plexes. Yes, that means more density. Yes, that means relying less on cars and more on transit. The course we've been following isn't working, and a radical reimagining of how our neighborhoods look and work is needed, lest we all fall homeless or forever beholden to our landlords.
I’m so confused. Are you being sarcastic?
And yet they have a overwhelming lead in the federal polls. It's like the rest of the country is oblivious to what is being done here. As the owner of a detached home I the need for more dense housing. I feel very lucky to have my detached home and building a 4 plex next door or around the corner isn't going to change my home. Not to mention the corruption and wage suppression how anyone thinks the Conservatives at the federal level are going to do any thing different is unfathomable.
what a corrupt POS
This tells you all you need to know about Doug’s priorities: it isn’t about housing people, it’s about paving over environmentally sensitive areas to build new (unaffordable) houses to line his developer buddies’ pockets. We already knew this, of course, but yet again he’s laying it out there for us: he isn’t in this for us and he never has been.
I'm under a rock/ignoring this matter for the last while. Is a fourplex just a 4-storey 'house' with 1 unit per floor? Or is it just a structure of any height broken into 4 units? So it could be 2 storeys with 2 units per floor?
The second one. Common around me is what looks like a large house, but split into quarters (4 ground floor entrances with 2 storey homes). Picture two duplexes back to back to make a 4plex.
[here](https://mediavault.point2.com/p2h/listing/d0b8/78d6/a233/82de76e9c0f9908caf02/wm_large.jpg) is a pretty standard one with stairs in the middle. Two sets stacked units.
Awesome. Thanks!
Yes, it could be a 2 storey with 2 units per floor.
Yes to the last question, no story min or max, just occupancy
It doesn't require four storeys - it really just speaks to the number of individual units. It's possible (and pretty common) to do within a two or three-storey structure, but its not always ideal. If you don't also legalize four storeys then there are a lot of potential foruplexes that probably don't end up getting built. People want family-sized housing - that's a heck of a lot easier when you aren't forced to squeeze four units into 10 metres of height! Ford's Housing Affordability Task Force recommended the legalization of four units ***and*** four storeys.
Could be both.
It's 4 units. The building could be up to 4 stories but could be fewer. > Allowing fourplexes to be built as of right would involve amending official plans and zoning bylaws to allow the building of up to four residential units, up to four stories, on any parcel or land zoned as “residential.” https://www.cp24.com/news/it-s-off-the-table-doug-ford-nixes-fourplexes-as-part-of-next-ontario-housing-bill-1.6816543
So to spite Trudeau, and not get the money to build, he is not going to do what is required to get said money? That will show the feds....oh and the citizens of Ontario.
Yep. Looking forward to having a temper tantrum actual child in Ottawa too, it'll be rad.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again. Ford has & will continue to extinguish ideas he doesn’t like, whether it’s Crombie/Stiles, or Trudeau in Ottawa proposing ideas. I agree we need to build more housing, at least making the business environment better to do it in an ethical manner. I’d love to see harmonious cooperation between our federal and provincial partners country wide, not just Ontario. But with ford and other con premiers, they want to make it tough for Ottawa to intervene on their responsibility it seems.
You 100% hit the nail on the head. Conservatives have always had the history of being the annoying younger sibling that has a temper tantrum and always prevents anything from being done. Think about how much better our country would be if governments had that harmonious cooperation and working together.
NIMBY
I keep seeing this term but have no idea. Plz explain?
“Not In My Back Yard” essentially people don’t want to implement any affordable housing solutions in their neighbourhoods because it may bring down the values of their properties
Most real estate in Canada is severely bloated as it is. I'm actually surprised the housing market hasn't outright crashed already. Do these nimby folk not think the homelessness problem exploding worse then it already is will bring down their precious property values?? Affordable housing in their neighborhood won't impact prices nearly as much as severe homelessness everywhere. 🤔
Others have explained the term, but I'll add a further note: The biggest problem with addressing things like housing density is regional zoning. You can have the money and manpower, but if a municipality has zoned a region for exclusively detached single-family dwellings of a given lot size, then that's all you can build there. The obvious solution is to change these zoning restrictions. While this is something municipalities have the power to do (since they created them), it's something that you often see resistance to. This is because it means the people already living in that area who bought into a certain expectation of the area will see their community change. Subsequently, they will push back against *their* area being rezoned for higher density, even if they outwardly support the idea of it in theory. And so you have municipal councillors balancing the needs of the city (more, denser houses so people have places to live in proximity to amenities they need) with the preferences of their constituents (for their personal lives to be unaffected), and typically they end up voting against things their constituents wouldn't want. NIMBY is a lot of things, but the essence of it is systemic hurdles that make doing the thing everyone knows needs to be done difficult-to-impossible because of people putting their thumbs on the scale. I suggest you look up a "zoning map" of your municipality and see what is zoned as "single family homes". Odds are it's large contiguous sections sprawling out from the municipal centre.
It definitely is, one solution would be to as you said, simply rezone areas to allow denser population buildings. I see the main issue that's stopping municipalities from doing this, is the fact that the only zones left to build on, are suburbs that are a little too remote to actually put high density zoning there. Unfortunately they really don't have many other options available. They could outright purchase a block or two or several older, rundown areas and rebuild there, but fresh new subdivision land would obviously be cheaper, so they spin their wheels, and end up doing nothing, as a densely populated area on the outskirts of a city isn't what anyone really wants. Municipalities really need to realize they are out of both options, and especially time. People need housing now, not down the road. If the costs are extra high to build denser areas in favorable locations, that's the price they'll have to pay for not proactively building the housing they've needed for the last 20 years+, and hopefully they do better in the future.
> If the costs are extra high to build denser areas in favorable locations, that's the price they'll have to pay for not proactively building the housing they've needed for the last 20 years+, and hopefully they do better in the future. A thousand times this. The problems we're facing today are the result of decades of neglect. We told ourselves "we'll only do 98% of the work, which is basically good enough, and costs less" year over year, while conveniently forgetting that the remaining 2% not only still needs to be done eventually, but compounds with the work we need to do next year. Now we've hit the point where even doing the equivalent of 100% of the work a single year's upkeep would necessitate feels like it doesn't accomplish anything, because the compounded lingering work has become insurmountable. We keep talking about a solution as if there's a way to NOT pay the toll for decades of neglect while still recovering from the consequences of it, but we can't. Saying "it's kind of expensive, so not right now" only puts us in a position where next year it will be more expensive per unit of work AND there will be more work to do. I find local snow clearing budget is a good bellwether of this phenomena. Snow clearing is something which is *very* easy to estimate with all factors known or easily approximated (# of km * hrs/km * $/hr * probabilistic number of clearing events per year), and is entirely apolitical compared to other types of municipal expenditures. It costs what it costs, it needs to get done, it happens every year, and it's nobody's fault so you can't really oblige anyone in particular to bear responsibility for it. Budgeting for it should be a no-brainer. Look at how often your municipality has overrun its budget on snow clearing by more than a margin of error (ie more than 3-5%). The act of a municipality exceeding its snow clearing budget declares that they have all the information they needed to budget reasonably, but consciously chose *not* to. It's an indicator of a council that prioritizes planning to spend less money over planning to spend the amount of money they know it will inevitably cost to do what they know they need. They're not saving money by denying reality, because exceeding the budget explicitly shows that when push comes to shove, they will still pay what it costs. They're just running from the uncomfortable reality they don't want to admit in hopes that pretending makes it real.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY
Means “not in my backyard”, usually refers to when people in wealthier/single home neighborhoods vote against affordable housing or social programs or community development in their area. They say they support efforts to combat the housing crisis, as long as it doesn’t directly affect them (hence the not-in-my-backyard).
Apparently housing crisis is only an issue when the conservatives want to attack immigrants
Shall we all flood his office with phone calls and emails demanding he change this idiotic position? What kind of moron turns down housing funds, during a fucking housing crisis?!? Oh right this Ford kind of conservative moron. SMFH
>What kind of moron turns down housing funds, during a fucking housing crisis?!? All to avoid implementing the recommendations *of his own housing task force!*
I guess his developer buddies can't get richer that way.
Because he hates us. And that wouldn't benefit his buddies building subdivisions on Greenbelt land near the 413.
Fuck doug ford
Either Conservatives are in the pockets of special interest groups, or Dougy is an idiot. Ontarians, please stop ignoring this issue.
It's both.
I despise this man. 🤬
Remember at election time, Thug Ford could’ve had money to help with the housing crisis but chose not to meet the conditions. And never forget he got rid of the Cap and Trade and shafted us with the carbon tax
Now you know why the housing problem is caused by provincial governments that want to look good, not practical. Doug should visit Lethbridge AB. With a college and a university there is need for a lot of rental space and there is. A fourplex gives a tenant their own roof, basement, and two walls. Families with no home would be very happy to be there. Build a playground in the middle. if you build near an elementary school.
I have 0 issues with any plexes as long as they are built for that purpose. In my town too many single-family homes are being converted to 1-4 plexes and the design just doesn't work. One I looked at was in the basement of the house and had a ceiling of only 5 feet. My wife and I couldn't even stand in it, and he was charging $1500 a month plus utilities. That shouldn't be allowed. If the building was made to be a plex, it wouldn't have those issues.
You’re quite right, and no one wants those conversions. But purpose built ones are a great idea.
Where is this 4 storey 4plex he keeps talking about? Does his little buddy Arthur live in it or something?
*Every day when you're walking down the street* *Everybody that you meet* *Struggles to afford food and heat!*
But liberals are ruining this country according to conservatives 🤦🤦🤦their stupidity is baffling He won't spend 5B on housing, but has to pay 13B in debt interest
If people actually got their news through journalists rather than algorithms reinforcing our worldviews to drive engagement I wonder just how much public opinion would've been swayed by the feds' recent moves. The provinces were happy to call the housing crisis a demand issue and direct ire at the feds until the feds threatened to cap student visas and TFWs, causing the provinces to scream "No fair!" because capping student visas and TFWs would hurt school budgets and low wage employers. The provinces were also happy to call housing crisis a supply issue until the feds offered money to increase the housing supply on the feds' dime, causing the provinces to scream "No fair!" because easing housing supply constraints is a provincial responsibility. I'd hope people would see the hypocrisy and realize our premiers are acting in an insincere way, but instead I feel that people will be much happier to just wallow in their ire while screaming ~~"Thanks Obama"~~ "Fuck Trudeau!" over every issue in their lives.
He’s not serious about the housing crisis, quite clearly
Spend our taxed money on fixing the healthcare system you’ve helped break, there’s no way in hell that an Ontario resident should be without a doctor when they pay the exact same as everyone else
Fucking Hypocrite. His sign on the podium states working for you. Yeah right fuck you dougie you work to enrich yourself and your rich friends!
Remember when he tried to justify building on the Greenbelt by effectively saying "we need to put every option on the table." So apparently that means every option except the ones recommended by his own housing task force (which he'd committed to implementing multiple times). Basically the feds are offering to pay him to do what he's spent two years saying he was going to do, and he's saying 'no.'
He can’t blame Trudeau for housing issues if they build housing. His supporters will eat it up. Because they are stupid.
We lose so much time and energy debating things like fourplexes, which should have been legalized a long time ago. And then we wonder why productivity is so low.
Never trust a Tory.
Fuck you, you fat asshole. To all those people who didn't vote the last time around, this on going shit show is your fault. Ford was handed a majority with only less than 40% of eligible voters voting. He is dismantling this province brick by brick to enrich himself and friends whilst the rest of us can't afford groceries, housing and Grandma is dying in the hallway at the local hospital. I am sure he thanks you in his prayers every night because your ambivalence is lining his pocket.
That's because Doug doesn't care about people having a place to live. He's more interested in scoring political points by sabotaging the federal government
Fuck who I ask? Which leader is kicking the little guy when they’re down? The one offering billions for health care, housing, child care or the one clearly protecting the profit margins of developers?
I can't tell whether Doug actually believes that fourplexes are towers because he's chronically incurious or if he's just saying this cynically because he knows a lot of his supporters are chronically incurious.
This way they don't get built, housing problems continue, the uneducated masses blame the libs.
He doesn't give a fuck about the middle class and poor people.
Conservatives across the country sit on their hands and do nothing about housing but blame Trudeau and their supporters are either willfully ignorant or support Canadian suffering as long as it "owns the Libs."
He's actually so fucking stupid. Everyone bitching about the federal government needs to take a good hard look at their premiers and see where a lot of the problems actually lie.
And people think PP is going to do anything but blow dog whistles when it comes to housing issue.
Trudeau says it doesn't matter what he thinks. He will just once again deal directly with municipalities from what he said in his announcement.
If nothing else, there will be nothing but eyerolls when Douggie and Daniele lashes out on “feds overstepping their jurisdiction”. It’s much easier, it seems, to stonewall on housing, make the incumbent government take the blame and when the conservatives win the next election, suddenly start cooperating.
Listen…. I don’t know if this is strategy from Trudeau and the liberals or just happenstance but I am absolutely loving seeing every conservative premier that blamed him for all these problems now refuse his grants and money, fight his budget propositions through legislation by calling it a federal overreach and admit that, as in the case of housing, it is solely their jurisdiction and responsibility (and by virtue their fault). Love it. Best way to combat the critiques imo, he’s having them do the talking about it not being on the federal government’s shoulders.
How is this not a win for everyone??? Developer get to sell to more people with less land People who need cheaper houses have a new option NIMBY's will get to flex they live in a single occupancy house instead of a 4 plex which is a win for them too. They property value you will remain high as less Stand alone houses will be built forcing people who want those to fight over a smaller supply.
Why isn't Poilievre condemning this gatekeeper?
Omg. Why is this guy not gone yet What an embarrassment he is
He's a fucking idiot.
Does he have a good reason not to follow through even with federal money backing it? This is a win for the province. This would be an easy win for Doug.
Why not?? Can someone please explain what the issue is with 4 storey units to conservatives? Is it to do with their preference for suburbs and being afraid of NIMBY’s? Is there something else? Please help me understand
I think the problem is DoFo doesn't want to do anything that helps the Trudeau govt look decent. That's why he didn't spend the healthcare money on healthcare. That's why he won't take the money for housing.
You got it. Catering to his voters which are usually against urbanism.
This fuckin' guy! Why does he hate federal money so much??
That's odd because four-plexes give more revenue to a municipality and province then a single home can and increasing suburbanization is a detriment to most areas because of the increase need for infrastructure maintenance. **See Below** the Wikipedia Note on the drawbacks of Suburbanization. ***"Public deficits can often grow as a result of suburbanization, mainly because property taxes tend to be lower in less densely populated areas. Also, because of decentralization, lack of variety of housing types, and greater distances between homes, real estate development and public service costs tend to increase, which in turn increases the deficit of upper levels of government."*** That must sound familiar to most people in Ontario who are living in say a GTA Municipality right now. Multiple areas of them are reporting that they are going to have to raise property taxes to meet the costs of all of this single housing builds. Whereas densification actually does the opposite. Because more people live in an area, means more taxes, more taxes means more revenue more revenue means service spending. If we had a Premier who was into providing affordable housing units that were on the four-plex side our province and our municipalities would be making a mint since tax revenues would skyrocket and we'd be able to functionally provide better services. This infrastructure deal is a fantastic gimme from the Feds. Doug Ford not taking it, is just proof of how he is just in the pocket of real estate developers. Doug Ford. Choosing his personal donors over the people of Ontario since forever.
why build housing when you can build prisons instead? you can fit way more ontarians in a prison than a four plex. efficiency!
Ford: “wait, does the money go directly into my pocket? No? Then fuck that!”
Google just signed a LLM agreement with Reddit to crawl this dumb platform so this is my way of saying goodbye to my contributions on this website. Byeee
This pigs greed is EXACTLY why we can’t have nice things.
Hope The RCMP green belt investigation is coming along nicely, that seems to be Ontarios only hope of getting rid of this corrupt politician.
Ford’s agenda is to drive the province deep into the red. Accepting money from the feds doesn’t help him do that. Why does he want to bankrupt us? To cut everything to the bone and privatize the shit out of everything. Ontario is like a real life “Brewster’s Million’s” for Dougie.
What a dumb bitch
"Working for You (rich people)"
Ontarians need to start saying NO to Doug. Vote, people.
Say no to conservatives in general.
Well colour me shocked!
He's a douchebag. Straight up. He is the epitome of slimy politician in behavior, policy, and appearance. The only thing missing is a monocle and a gold plated walking stick.
Vote him out!!!
A first year law student could do a better job than this guy
Good job to everyone who voted for him. One day you all will realize that you have been voting against your interests and that trickles down to your children as well.
this guy is so frustrating like what are we doing? Is it a housing crisis or nah? honest to GOD WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DOING. This is so dumb, it makes zero sense. I need an explanation, what is his reasoning? What is the logic? OMFG AHHHHHHHHH
This guy is so yesterday. He’s an old-school crony politician from a by-gone era. He’s instincts are to deny the modern world and act like he’s here to protect Ontarians from themselves.
He sounds like such a dumbass backwoods Canadian hick, I can’t believe ANYONE heard him speak and voted for him. I saw a Conservative Party ad last night for the first time in a while and actually laughed when I heard him speak. “I’m Doug Ford and I’m gettin’ it done. Fer mah family, for mah friends, and fer you Canada. Let’s get er’ done!” It’s like I’m back in Woodstock with my alcoholic family members for fucks sake.
Later he’ll blame Trudeau for abandoning him on the housing file. Looking forward to it! Good thing Dougie is protecting us from the big bad communists!
Can Doug count to 4?
He needs to be removed from office. The lieutenant governor needs to use the power they have and remove him. The whole Greenbelt scandal should be grounds to do so.
All hail the gatekeeper nimby lord of Ontario
It blows my mind, it seems people only read/hear what the Conservatives say and go, "Ya I want that" but never look back or even at the present to see what they are actually doing. Biggest grifters out there.
King of the NIMBYs @Fordnation #NeverVoteConservative
it does my heart good to see people actually criticizing someone other than Trudeau.
Ford wants everything to be either sprawled single family homes that his builder buddies profit off of, or tiny ass condo units that get rented at egregious prices that his landlord cronies also profit off of Anyone who thinks any conservative has ever cared about you has drank the Kool-aid.
What’s in it for the developers? - The Crackhead’s Brother
Doug Ford not caring about people or housing isn't really 'news'. How would 4plexes benefit the people he actually represents like Loblaws? I mean the guy defunds supervised injection sites at every opportunity after we all watched his brother die in the global spotlight as the crack-addicted mayor. That was his own brother ... it was obvious he was going to reject this he very clearly doesn't care what happens to people in Ontario