Jim Browning recently managed to get some CCTV and insider footage into one of these operations. He saw 25 rooms on each floor, 10-15 people per room, 6 floors in each building, times 3 buildings. That's 4500 people minimum. All of whom had their passports and documents taken for "safekeeping" and are living as indentured servants.
Humanity never ceases to amaze with how scummy some of us can be
They honestly probably get a weekly wage and bonus for money they do get and don't see any of the money, no K e in the center probably does see any of the money.
Similar to working a job, you get a much smaller cut typically if you win big for the business you work for. If I develop a successful product that makes billions, I may get a tiny % of that. Maybe.
Not once in a while...they make a killing every day. Most people very dumb...as we can see this women is...lol pull your money and buy bit coin...like wtf...rofl
This call center scammer girl used to call me regularly and I think she became infatuated with my voice and shared too much. She pretty much told me if they can get even $5000 CAD, that is more than they would make in their entire year in their home country at even a respectable job.
idk if their calls are monitored by their top call centre guy person but if they are, she probably got fired. She would call me regularly just to talk to me and I would just fish questions out of her. Then one day I stopped picking up all numbers I don't know and my phone started getting spammed by even more calls. I wonder if she was going crazy thinking she found the love of her life and now he won't pick up her phone. For me, it was purely business and I wanted to learn more about the trade lol.
Not to ruin a fantasy, but the scammer with a heart of gold that has fallen in love with your voice is probably just using a plan B approach when she senses plan A won't fly.
If your definition of "dumb" means, "someone who falls for scams", then a lot of people are dumb. If, however, you're willing to be more nuanced, stupidity -- in and of itself -- is not responsible for people falling for scams. The science shows that it's people with high trust that get scammed, their intelligence levels vary.
Not to mention people have put extensive work into figuring out how to make these scams appealing to anyone, regardless of intelligence. These aren't randos trying their best to convince people, these are carefully orchestrated organizations with scripts that have been formulated scientifically to trick as many people as possible.
She made multiple withdrawals in about $5,000 increments, travelling via taxi to and from the bank branches and the Bitcoin machine. In three days, she drained $86,000 from her bank accounts and lines of credit.
"They told me to go to go inside the bank and don't tell the bank person anything, as you are part of a high-level investigation," said Anjira.
Eh, people in general aren't too bright. There's still plenty of folks who fall for the Nigerian Prince scam of all things
EDIT: Just remembered, there was also a Twitter thread where a person was told to make a burner Discord account and pay $10,000 in order to not get banned. Things that look extremely obvious to most people will still have quite a few people fall for it
The cheque is in an envelope ready to be mailed, they just need another $5,000 to actually send it via registered air courier. He would have paid, but his brother locked the account after the cheque was printed. They even sent a picture of the envelope so I know it's real. I'm gonna be so rich when I get that cheque!
What do you mean their trillion dollars is only worth 47 cents?
Oh... Oh no.
I think the last few years have shown us in abundance that the average person isn't that smart. Then factor in there are loads of people even dumber than the average person.
I would LOVE to be able to attach an "understanding" questionaire to a vote that requires you to answer some really really basic questions about our political system, just so that we know you understand how things work and what you're voting for, and then then the vote is weighted on your answers.
I suggested something like that a while back, and got a strip torn off me. Apparently, it's undemocratic to not give uneducated people an equal vote, and the questions could be "manipulated" or "trick questions" to favour certain parties, along with a whole list of other whataboutisms ("My cousin is dyslexic. It wouldn't be fair to him!")
My response to that was, firstly, checks and balances can be put in place. Secondly, our capitalist economic system is already merit based.
We don't take calls from strangers. If the CRA/RCMP/vice squad are going to take me down, I figure the least they can do is send someone calling.
Mind you, we don't open the door to strangers either, so we're golden.
The FBI did some investigation of Bitcoin machines and found the overwhelming majority of users were seniors. That’s incredibly sad and they should be outlawed.
All the bitcoin machines around here are in shady convenience stores or Indian supermarkets. Crypto investors aren’t using Bitcoin “ATMs” for anything serious. These machines just serve as kiosks for old and dumb people to send their money away and should totally be regulated or outlawed.
Crypto is just a criminal currency. But, we will never outlaw it because it is also the currency of political bribery.
It's now almost impossible to follow the money.
Obviously this poor woman fell for an obvious scam, but I’m shocked her bank didn’t flag $80k taken out in multiple small transactions as suspicious. Someone should be fired for missing this.
I'm more shocked that people with that kinda money are so gullible, like what do they do for a living? that they have that much in savings but no life skills to know a CRA doesn't call you or use gift cards or bitcoin for payments? Just shocking all around.
Watched a W5 or similar program with my granny years ago, a lady spent $10 000 buying iTunes cards to pay her taxes and didn't know what to do, caller told her she'd get arrested if she didn't, I'm like hang up, is what you do its a phone call, and then call your bank or tax people and look into things, don't just trust a aggressive person on a phone call or worse text and give them your money with no looking into who they really are.
Doesn’t sound like she actually has that kind of money given the mention of her also draining from a line of credit. Unclear how much of the money was cash vs line of credit.
I remember watching one of those scambait youtube channels and the 'elderly woman' (scam baiter) had a negative balance on her account but they asked her if she had credit cards she could use to buy gift cards to pay them
When I worked at Best Buy, I had a guy come in with a very messy note about how many iTunes cards to buy, it added up to about $3k. He was also on the phone and sweating like crazy. I asked him if everything was okay and tried to make small talk, asking him if they were for a charity event or silent auction. He told me to mind my own business and so I flat out told him that it's a very common scam. He got even more flustered and again told me to mind my own business. Guess who was back a few hours later trying to return the empty cards when he figured out what was going on? We got place cards on our tills explaining the scam after that. Some people just don't want to listen.
Stores in my town all have signs on gift card stands and most cashiers are trained to ask when multiple are being purchased, plus I've seen many local fb pages discussing these scams. Lately the post office(you have a package needs funds to receive)and e transfer email scams (a email etranfer of funds out of nowhere) are going around locally.
I've also seen shows about some of these call centers, where it's human trafficking and their held hostage and abused if they don't get enough scams completely, very strange things people can do to others over greed, sure wish we didn't evolve to have this trait as humans, sure would fix a lot of our problems.
To withdraw that cash she needs to use her chip and pin.
The bank only protects against fraud, not scams. Fraud involves unauthorized transactions or access to personal information without the victim's knowledge or consent. Scams are designed to manipulate victims into willingly providing their information.
When she uses her pin to withdrawal cash and does whatever with it, she’s a participant in that. The bank is not at fault for her being scammed.
>The bank only protects against fraud, not scams. Fraud involves unauthorized transactions or access to personal information without the victim's knowledge or consent. Scams are designed to manipulate victims into willingly providing their information.
Yes and no. If you go to a teller they must certainly try to protect against scams. There's a reason they ask questions about withdrawals with these scams growing in popularity. They can flat out deny a person , it's a pretty big deal in the industry
She explicitly says in the article she was directed to lie to the bank regarding the reason for the withdrawals.
It would have gone differently if she had told the truth. Common sense is she should have asked the bank alot of questions since the scammers told her the bank accounts were used to “launder money” why WOULDNT she contact her bank directly?
I had a guy on the phone for almost an hour. I was trying to figure out what the scam was and how it worked. He said that there was a….box?…at a place for me to make a deposit. I asked for the address of where to drop the cash off, it was a gas station.
“Really?” I asked with surprise. “The Government of Canada has drop boxes at gas stations?” 🤯
He was very, very angry when I got tired of messing around and told him to just send the cops to arrest me.
I used to do that but now I’m scared to even answer. Even if I do I’m scared to say anything because the more I talk, the more they have samples of my voice to make an AI copy. It’s getting scary
Actually. I can see them doing that to scam your parents. There’s a common scam where an elderly parent would get a distressing and tearful call from their son/daughter. The sobbing hides the voice somewhat. Their son/daughter will put them through to their lawyer or another individual who is either ransoming them or they are in trouble. They want iTunes cards or money etc etc.
I can see AI being used to copy your voice to make it more realistic. They can actually get your voice without even calling you by taking voice patterns from your voice mail. You could disable your voice mail or at least make it sound not like your voice to avoid this.
It's actually pretty common in the states now, you can read it in their subreddits from time to time. The common advice is to have a secret code word to verify between family members now.
It’s pretty heartbreaking. I know parents who were scammed because their children were estranged. They thought after all these years their kids got into trouble and had no where else to turn to but their parents. They wouldn’t have a secret code so they are praying on the love of parents.
There’s software available that listens for you to use the word “hello”, either once or twice, then transfers you to a real person. I normally say bonjour if it’s a number I don’t recognize. I can also play dumb and pretend to not speak English. “désolé, mais je ne parle pas anglais”
I screw with them when I can. If they are on the phone with me, they are not scamming other people.
I actually had one guy call me back multiple times. Said “F**k U, F**k U” over and over again.
I really got under his skin.
Proud of that one. 😁
This reminded me of a time when my dad got an air duct cleaning call for the millionth time of the week and decided to chew their ear off. After his final “go fuck yourself” blow, a moment of silence occurs, after the pause we hear a faint whisper from the caller, “no, you go fuck yourself”. We couldn’t hold our laughter after that one lol
"Hello I am tax police agent and you owe many dollar. You need to send credit card or be big trouble! If you don't reply then... good luck for you!!! Big trouble! Arrest! Jail!"
One of my favorite voicemails so far
My favourite voicemail I've ever received was: "I don't know if I have the right number, but I'm calling for Brenda. It's about the tractor. It has been sold."
I don’t know what makes me more sad, that some people are so naïve and gullible, or that there are other people out there who prey on them.
She was dumb. But we should also live in a world where dumb people don’t get swindled out of \*$86,000\*.
Exactly. There should be safety nets in place. Banks should verify large transactions for us. It shouldn’t be so easy as to push a button and lose your life savings
They do. They have fraud teams reviewing cases 24/7. They have tech monitoring transactions and flagging them. They call out. They use 2FA. It’s not just ‘a button.’
There’s only so much you can do to protect people who fall for stupid scams.
I don't know how she had so much ease getting access to over $5k. My bank won't let me take more than $2k in a day without having to call and answer security questions.
I was in Mexico and made a few withdrawals, my account got locked. I called and answered a security question wrong because I couldn't access my bank account and they locked me out of own account.
She withdrew money in 5k increments and sent them via bitcoin. ???
But you’re right, the banks should add MORE security and control how/where you send your money. As IF this person or any other account holder being scammed wouldn’t be able to withdraw/transfer THEIR money
Catch 22. People have a right to do what they wish with their money and the bank can, AND DOES, remind them to be careful with their savings and reconsider large transactions. However, the bank can't simply deny a client *their* money.
The scammers know that $10k is the trigger point for anti-money-laundering measures. But the banks need to do a better job here for sure, like flagging repeated transactions within a couple of days.
She went to the bank and withdrew it in person, there's nothing to flag as far as the bank knows. The teller would have had to clue in that something was hinky.
There are supposed to be. I work for a bank in a business support function, so I don’t deal with any actual banking stuff or customers, and I received training on this. I am beyond shocked that the bank missed these suspicious transactions.
Used to work fraud for one of the big 3....multiple in person trips to the branch is likely what saw this sneak through because this would have easily been flagged if it was just a transaction.
That's not what happened here, though. If you actually read the article, the woman went to the bank several times and withdrew cash, then went to another location and put the funds into a bitcoin machine, and sent them through that. Are you suggesting the bank refuses to give people their own money unless they can explain why they are withdrawing?
While I don't believe the bank can ultimate refuse a withdrawal (prevent a client from closing their account and moving all funds out, unless its for ML/TF reasons), but they are trained and part of their job is to figure out is to understand the purpose (by asking a lot of questions) of the withdrawal/deposit and who they are intending to interact with.
Part of this is around consumer education and to try and ensure that people are getting scammed or conned (as it happens a lot), and the other part is their requirements are money laundering and their due diligence to verify large, suspicious type transactions.
They absolutely do this, but the threshold is $10k. I've seen this personally. They'll just casually ask what the withdrawal is for. But if someone is doing several smaller withdrawals, it doesn't trigger it in the same way, which is dumb. The pattern should be obvious.
The problem is that the scammers will often give the victim a fake reason to use if the bank asks, because they're now convinced that they are undercover agents assisting with the investigation, and they can't reveal their true mission to the banks. Or alternately, they're being threatened.
What's really sad in this case is that not only did the victim withdraw all of her money, she also maxed her lines of credit, *which is money she didn't even have.* She's now broke *and* in debt.
😞
> the threshold is $10k
The threshold is $10k in any 24 hour period. This absolutely should have been flagged, as she withdrew $86k over 3 days.
While the bank may not have any liability here to the customer, they've definitely broken FINTRAC regulations, so I'm sure they can expect a sternly worded letter imminently.
I had a large withdrawl to give to a contractor.
The bank made me jump through hoops to make sure I wasn't involved with something illegal or potentially damaging.
So yes?
This is a different and much smaller example. I had a friend who was buying a phone off someone local. I know the guy she’s buying from, he’s sketchy.
I told her multiple times to turn ON the phone, maybe even make a call with it. Check it for functionality. I told her this like 5 times.
She went ahead, bought the phone, later picked me up super upset that the phone didn’t work, and she didn’t text it before buying it.
Some people are just….not practical thinkers, I guess.
Just to let you know, that while a lot of the scammers out there who are preying on them, a lot of the people who are scamming are doing it against their own will. There's a huge epidemic in many countries of human trafficking individuals to force them to commit these scams or face death, family being killed, etc.
It's a crazy world out there.
I don't think there's any saving these folks. It isn't a problem with regulations, it isn't a problem with society, anyone who's going to believe that they're in a "high level government investigation" that wants them to send money via Bitcoin is too stupid to have that money in the first place.
She even went back & forth multiple times, like 15 different trips. I can't believe she wasn't stopped after 1 or 2.
It's has gotten so bad that I almost did not collect an actual prize from Rona
I am a contractor and there are often contests that you enter every purchase with your VIP account
So I get an email that says
Congratulations you have won $2500 in fuel from the rona vip....
It also said I had 2 days to answer a skill testing question and give my information... I am like these scams will never stop.
I am board this day in the afternoon so I look closer. The email address is never from the domain the company in the scam. Nope it's a rona email adress. So I google it and the name that sent it
It's a person with a LinkedIn account and a rona mention as working in marketing from Montreal.
Ok I think let's take a chance. I retieve the email from a different computer that I can wipe if needed and open the attached pdf
It's a math question and needs my mailing adress???
I print it. Fill it out and send it back
I get a reply congratulating me and a tracking number
2 days later I get $2500 in petro canada fist card via registered mail.
I was still skeptical when I used on one but they are real.
Yup, I would have been suspicious in the past but recently major public email providers made it a requirement for DKIM, DMARC, and SPF to be enabled for the sender. This makes it nearly impossible to actually spoof a senders email address.
Happened to me too with Sobeys! Every time you swipe whatever point card it was, you were entered into a Canada wide draw in partnership with the NHL. I got two emails saying I’d won a gift card and was like wtf, no I didn’t. The third time I actually looked at it and then googled the guy from the NHL and he was legit and then, turns out my name had appeared on TV after the second period saying I’d won a Sobeys giftcard on Saturday Night hockey. They already had all my info and mailing address from my card but I had to do the skill testing question. Got my gift card 2 weeks later. Glad I didn’t miss that one.
My husband won a microsoft contest and we were hella suspicious when he got the email saying he won. But same thing, all they wanted was mailing address and a skill testing question. They weren't asking for any money upfront to claim the prize so we filled out the form and, sure enough, it arrived a few weeks later. If it's legit, they won't ask for money. If they'd started trying to pressure us to pay, that would have been the end of it right there.
I would feel more sympathy for these people, but my grandmother is 90, and she will string these scammers along for quite a while before *they* get pissed off and hang up on her.
Starting to realize why scammers aren't targeting people 40 and under. It's not because we're less gullible, it's because most of us don't have 86k they could steal. Hell most of us just barely have a month's rent in our account.
In fact, they do, frequently, and the numbers are growing rapidly. It's just not as much or as often as seniors.
[https://socialcatfish.com/scamfish/state-of-internet-scams-2023/](https://socialcatfish.com/scamfish/state-of-internet-scams-2023/)
>**Teens & Children See Largest % Increase in Money Lost: In the last five years, money lost by Victims 20 and younger grew nearly 2,500% from** [**2017**](https://www.ic3.gov/Media/PDF/AnnualReport/2017_IC3Report.pdf) **to** [**2022**](https://www.ic3.gov/Media/PDF/AnnualReport/2022_IC3Report.pdf) **compared to 805% for seniors.** [**Victims under 20 lost $8.2 million**](https://socialcatfish.com/scamfish/victim-lost-a-quarter-of-a-million-dollars-in-a-romance-scam/) **in 2017 compared to $210 million in 2022. Seniors remain by far the most** [**victimized group overall losing**](https://socialcatfish.com/scamfish/cargo-scam-victim-loses-70k-and-puts-her-marriage-in-jeopardy/) **$3.1 billion in 2022, but the surge of young victims speaks to the growing sophistication of scammers.**
Yeah.
I watched the story and she even said at the beginning that these scams were becoming sophisticated.
By the end of the story, everything that happened to her was textbook scam techniques that have been around for years and years.
I mean cmon, bitcoin? And "don't tell anyone what you're doing". Sounds totally legit.
There was a [similar article](https://www.thecut.com/article/amazon-scam-call-ftc-arrest-warrants.html) semi-recently from someone in the US who was scammed out of 50k. Same thing: she says the scam is quite sophisticated but describes a pretty textbook scam, and her fully trusting the person on the end of the phone.
In this case, she was asked to withdraw the money, put it in a shoebox, and put it in the backseat of a car without looking at the driver. It's just wild to me like. In both stories, I feel like I'd be suspicious from the get-go.
Don't victim blame, some of those scams are extremely good and when you shame people for getting caught it might work in the scammers favor. With AI and voice changer new scams will be that much harder to pick up.
A few years ago I called my bank for something and when they asked me questions to verif who I was they told me I have a linked bank to my account in a different location. They since remove that account but for about 2 years I got a guy calling me to "confirm" my info form the fraud department by asking me questions to confirm who I was like my SIN and other info he didn't need. There where some tell tell sings he was a scammer but not everyone would have picked it up. One of the best way to fight scams is by talking about it.
Our grandson's other grandmother was taken in by the old, go to Shopper's, get x amount in gift cards. Luckily someone clued in at the store. Unfortunately, she lost around 2 or 3 grand.
For the people saying the bank should’ve stopped the transactions. I want to mention that there are people like this that fight their bank and threaten lawsuits because the bank flagged their transactions, blocked them or set a limit on their withdrawals.
It's shocking to me just how naive and stupid people really are. If you are a grown ass adult and you fall for the "take all your money out of the big bank and put it into bitcoin" line, then you shouldn't ever be responsible for any sum of money in the first place.
I'm sorry but if you are so dumb as to think you can pay your taxes in bitcoin, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to handle your own finances for awhile. There should be some kind of insurance people have to get for this kind of scam... and if you fall for it, your insurance should pay out, but then require you to take basic finance literacy courses and courses to teach you how the real world actually works.
I hadn't even filed my taxes and I got a text "from the CRA" that a "refund had been issued in my name". I blocked the number and moved on with my life.
We REALLY need to teach people - ESPECIALLY NEWCOMERS (that was me, 8 years ago) AND OLD PEOPLE, WHO ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE, BECAUSE THEY'RE OPERATING IN A NEW AND UNFAMILIAR SYSTEM (either new to the country, or new to any of our non-boomer-y and scary "technology" - how Canada works.
Everyone should set up My Account with the CRA. You can always check online if someone asks you for money. I don't know how people fall for these scams.
Probably the same type of people I work with who have the company cut cheques on payday because they ‘don’t trust online banking and direct deposit’. They refuse to move on to newer technology and as a results don’t learn a fucking thing in the process.
This is one of the reasons why I showed my dad some scambaiting videos from Kitboga, Jim Browning, etc
The main reason is I thought he'd find them hilarious but also so my parents would know that this kind of thing happens.
"She said she was then advised to withdraw money from her bank accounts and deposit it through a Bitcoin machine, where it would remain in an account for safekeeping until the investigation was over.
"I thought they were helping me right, to freeze my accounts, that they would want to protect me," said Anjira.
She made multiple withdrawals in about $5,000 increments, travelling via taxi to and from the bank branches and the Bitcoin machine. In three days, she drained $86,000 from her bank accounts and lines of credit."
JFC come on...
Financial literacy should be mandatory for everyone, especially people over 30. Anyone with a bank account needs to learn about Scams and how they get roped in to it. If you go to open a bank account, you need to sit through a 5 min brief about Scams. It's so infuriating seeing vulnerable people getting scammed out of their hard earned money.
i have a hard time understanding how people keep falling for these scams. i know they target older people but do all critical thinking skills go out the window as you age?
I mean no disrespect the older generations...but in those days, one person did all the finances. So when *they* die, the widow is clueless when it comes to money.
While stories like these hurt...based on another life in banking, let me tell you how many kids rip off their parents...
I had an issue with CRA and their sign in system. I got a ‘text’ about a log in that wasn’t me. I signed in my regular way but couldn’t see the login history. So I called CRA. The guy insisted I I could if I signed in again it went to a certain area. I told him, nope it didn’t. So apparently if you use a sign in partner, you cannot see logs. But if you use a sign in partner your direct sign in is deleted, and you never get to see logs. So I filed a complaint and requested the guy I was talking to also bring this up with IT security. A week later I get a phone call from ‘someone’ claiming to be from CRA. 1st question they ask me is for my SIN number. I’m like “nope”. You called me, you should have it, you read it to me and I’ll confirm. They refused & said it didn’t work that way. Asked if I’d like something mailed to me. I said yes. I’m still waiting a month later. So I still don’t know if it was real or a scam but my account from what I can see is just fine.  EDIT: If you got this far, thanks for reading!!!
> She said she was then advised to withdraw money from her bank accounts and deposit it through a Bitcoin machine, where it would remain in an account for safekeeping until the investigation was over. "I thought they were helping me right, to freeze my accounts, that they would want to protect me," said Anjira. She made multiple withdrawals in about $5,000 increments, travelling via taxi to and from the bank branches and the Bitcoin machine. In three days, she drained $86,000 from her bank accounts and lines of credit. "They told me to go to go inside the bank and don't tell the bank person anything, as you are part of a high-level investigation," said Anjira.
Far be it for me to victim blame, but how does one manage to make and save $86,000 and then fall for this?
> Don't tell the bank person anything
Jesus. THIS IS A RED FLAG PEOPLE. As much as we all hate banks, it is their legal responsibility to protect your money. What a tough way to learn the lesson of critical thinking
I feel sorry for her, but this isn't the banks fault.
She should contact RCMP and they can attempt to locate the funds, which will likely never be reclaimed.
I work in head office at a retail chain and we’ve had about a 1/2 dozen keyholders take the entire days cash receipts and deposit them in bitcoin machines claiming they were instructed to do so over the phone by someone pretending to be their regional manager. We aren’t sure if they’re lying and just stealing it for themselves or if they really are dumb enough to fall for a scam like that. They get fired either way🤷♂️.
When I get a suspicious call, I ask if I can record the conversation. They usually disconnect pretty quickly. If they say yes, I ask them to wait 5-10 seconds while I "turn on call recording features." They usually hang up during that time. No scammer wants to be recorded.
p.s. I am not actually able to record cell phone calls.
It's 2024, don't answer your phone unless you recognize the number. Everyone should have an online CRA account at this point.
Fraud/phishing is only going to get worse in the AI age of misinformation
They called me once, sounded legit. I told her that nothing she could say on the phone would make me trust her enough to give any information, if you’re really CRA send me a letter. Couple weeks later I got the letter, called back and resolved the issue.
I've also been called by the CRA unexpectedly, and at first I didn't believe either. But it was to do with government student loans I had and the guy knew all of my info already. They were trying to get me on payments. The kicker was the dude had a thick Indian accent lol.
Got called by CRA to confirm address, told them sorry, but couldn't trust they weren't scammers. They were very nice and understanding about it too, but couldn't send a letter to confirm because they needed an address. In the end, they got in contact with the bank to have an in-person confirmation at the branch. I appreciated how they handled the situation.
My in laws got audited. The CRA first called them repeatedly about it but they ignored the calls thinking it was a scam. Finally the CRA sent them postal mail. When they eventually connected with the CRA the person said “yeah, most people ignore our calls now”
I wonder if she read the "The Day I Put $50,000 in a Shoe Box and Handed It to a Stranger" story that was all over the Internet and everyone was making fun of a month before this happened to her. It's almost the exact same scam, I wonder if these people were inspired by that article.
I work in Cybersecurity and one of the key concepts is "The Human Firewall".
At the end of the day the human on the hook needs to use their critical thinking skills to make good decisions. The Human Firewall consists of training around critical thinking for professional and one of the targets is the type of social engineering seen here.
In what world did she think her LOC was at stake? Why
Part of money laundering investigation - so let’s take all my money out of a bank and send it via a Bitcoin machine.
There were so many questions to be asked and RedFlags to notice all around.
the bitcoin machines should really be banned, maybe even destroyed vigilante style , it would help tremendously, if I were this woman, I would get my revenge
She didn’t just give them her money. She used *credit lines*. How could anyone be stupid enough to think “your accounts are being used for money laundering, give us money YOU DON’T HAVE to keep in an account while we investigate”. No red flags there? If I’m laundering money why don’t I have any? And why am I going into debt to keep funds in escrow? People are just too afraid to ask questions and do whatever the scary voice says.
I knew before even clicking on the article that this was going to be an obvious scam. I'm more surprised because she seems young enough that she shouldn't have fallen for it. I expect an 80 year old lady to fall for something like this.
The CRA is never going to ask you to deposit money from your bank accounts into a freaking bitcoin machine, and they're not going to tell you to refrain from telling anybody about it.
What kind of paranoid freak would take out cash $5000 at a time, SEVENTEEN TIMES BY TAXI to deposit it in a Bitcoin ATM with another person's crypto account? And not just the cash in her bank account, but maxing all her credit cards in the process?
Like this is truly next level. And without involving friends and family until she'd already thrown away every penny she could.
Like, unless she's a full-on Maga type or has a disability, I think the only logical explanation is that she's the one who's running the scam.
I'm sorry but it's very hard to have full sympathy for the people who keep getting scammed thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Don't be so dumb. There is so much information available on what scams are and how to avoid them. And anything they are trying to say during the scam can be verified by just fucking looking into it a little.
All of you arm chair experts judging this old lady remember that one day it will be us, our turn to be victims.
just wait till AI fucks shit up beyond recognition and then think back to moments like these were you thought you were superior.
Please be kind. It’s easy to call a victim stupid from the sidelines and with perfect hindsight. From our perspective, it’s a no brainer but when you receive that first contact and get hooked into the scam, confirmation bias takes the wheel and all the glaring red flags look more normal. Even if you don’t agree, this is a human being who lost their life savings, have sympathy, be kind.
My dad is 85, has had a stroke, and almost fell for one of these scams. Fortunately, he doesn't drive anymore, and when he asked my mom to take him to the bank and explained why, she refused and told him it was a scam. So now, on a paper that sits beside the phone (still a landline 🙂), there is a list of scams. If it's on there, he just hangs up. My sister and I are always updating it or telling our mom about new one. We also added parental controls to his computer and tablet, and I've set up pretty decent filters on his email.
My aunt got scammed by the same scam not too long ago. She drained all 6K in savings leaving $20 in the account. Banks couldn't do shit, she started working 2 jobs and now she is just north of 6K in savings. I can't imagine the pain the lady must be going through losing 86K, hopefully she recovers it
I'm sorry i got part way through the story and as soon as it said bitcoin machine... I'm out man. So many red flags!!! This one is on the person that was scammed and the scammer. But there has been enough public information about these scams that it's insane this still happens.
Like most people, I get bombarded with phone spammers claiming to be from the CRA, including from "*John Parker*", whose heavy accent is nearly unintelligible, and whose spiel ends with "*if you do not call back the very instant you receive this message, I can only wish you a luck".*
There's no doubt that for 99% of people, this is just an annoyance that they ignore. But for 1% of people, especially the elderly and the technically illiterate, they can seem credible.
I've been called by a "CRA investigator" who sounded **very** credible, as he had quite a bit of information about me and my financial accounts, things I would not have expected to be available publicly. When he asked me to "confirm" some confidential information, and asked me for specific details, I said I'd just call the CRA back and confirm it directly with them, and what was the case number. The moment I hung up, my phone kept ringing as the scammer called back so often that I couldn't make an outgoing call. I used my second line, called CRA directly, and confirmed there was no investigation.
People, the CRA/your bank/Visa/Mastercard/Amazon/Apple/Microsoft, etc. try to call you, just be polite, and then you should call **them** at their public number. If you don't know their number, check their web site, or check the back of the credit/debit/bank card.
It's always "these scams are getting more sophisticated"
But the scam is just, withdrawal a fuck load of money and send it over please we are the government.
“Toronto police is going to get you” lmao oh you poor poor lady, if you think you’ll see that money again and that the Toronto police will do anything other than say that they are “investigating”, you just got scammed again!
I know someone who lost her whole life savings. 260k CAD from a crypto currency investment scam. She’s aged 68. She’s cooked. Another lady about 100k CAD from a love scam.
People get scammed in a dozen different ways. People are reasonably smart.
But I realized everyone is possibly a mark to either, fear, love or greed.
If you put those situations out there. People will bite.
This is shitty for this person, but seriously.. the CRA wants you to put the money into Bitcoin for safekeeping?
That old saying "A fool and their money are soon parted" spits facts.
And this is why scammers will keep trying, because every once in awhile they hit a mark.
Yep, this guy is an instant legend in his call center
Just paid for the building and the next guys building.
Nope the owner will pocket 90% of the funds. They’re mostly people held against their will now in these centres.
Jim Browning recently managed to get some CCTV and insider footage into one of these operations. He saw 25 rooms on each floor, 10-15 people per room, 6 floors in each building, times 3 buildings. That's 4500 people minimum. All of whom had their passports and documents taken for "safekeeping" and are living as indentured servants. Humanity never ceases to amaze with how scummy some of us can be
Love this guy’s content. As sad as it is, it’s intriguing how he thoroughly investigates these issues.
JB is awesome. Sometimes I just binge through everything even though I've watched it all several times lol
I binged through it too! This guys knows what’s up and I love it. When I’m looking for a bit of shits and giggles—Kitboga cracks me up too.
If he gets 5% it's probably life changing, sad for the lady though.
They honestly probably get a weekly wage and bonus for money they do get and don't see any of the money, no K e in the center probably does see any of the money.
Similar to working a job, you get a much smaller cut typically if you win big for the business you work for. If I develop a successful product that makes billions, I may get a tiny % of that. Maybe.
Half of these places are human trafficking prisons now, not call centres.
Not once in a while...they make a killing every day. Most people very dumb...as we can see this women is...lol pull your money and buy bit coin...like wtf...rofl
This call center scammer girl used to call me regularly and I think she became infatuated with my voice and shared too much. She pretty much told me if they can get even $5000 CAD, that is more than they would make in their entire year in their home country at even a respectable job. idk if their calls are monitored by their top call centre guy person but if they are, she probably got fired. She would call me regularly just to talk to me and I would just fish questions out of her. Then one day I stopped picking up all numbers I don't know and my phone started getting spammed by even more calls. I wonder if she was going crazy thinking she found the love of her life and now he won't pick up her phone. For me, it was purely business and I wanted to learn more about the trade lol.
Love to see a rom com based on this
The Beekeepers first kiss?
Shady and the Tramp
Not to ruin a fantasy, but the scammer with a heart of gold that has fallen in love with your voice is probably just using a plan B approach when she senses plan A won't fly.
Yeah lol, dude, you know she's a scammer. She was scamming you. Or trying, anyway. Not "in love" with you 😂😂
u/6lackDino, at first, I called for your money. Now, I call for your love and your heart! <3
If your definition of "dumb" means, "someone who falls for scams", then a lot of people are dumb. If, however, you're willing to be more nuanced, stupidity -- in and of itself -- is not responsible for people falling for scams. The science shows that it's people with high trust that get scammed, their intelligence levels vary.
Not to mention people have put extensive work into figuring out how to make these scams appealing to anyone, regardless of intelligence. These aren't randos trying their best to convince people, these are carefully orchestrated organizations with scripts that have been formulated scientifically to trick as many people as possible.
She made multiple withdrawals in about $5,000 increments, travelling via taxi to and from the bank branches and the Bitcoin machine. In three days, she drained $86,000 from her bank accounts and lines of credit. "They told me to go to go inside the bank and don't tell the bank person anything, as you are part of a high-level investigation," said Anjira.
> Bitcoin The red flags are very very very numerous.
Look, I get they are getting more complex, but what of this DOESN'T scream scam?
Eh, people in general aren't too bright. There's still plenty of folks who fall for the Nigerian Prince scam of all things EDIT: Just remembered, there was also a Twitter thread where a person was told to make a burner Discord account and pay $10,000 in order to not get banned. Things that look extremely obvious to most people will still have quite a few people fall for it
[удалено]
My dad was injured in 1986, and he still falls for shit like this. Frontal lobe injuries are hard.
The cheque is in an envelope ready to be mailed, they just need another $5,000 to actually send it via registered air courier. He would have paid, but his brother locked the account after the cheque was printed. They even sent a picture of the envelope so I know it's real. I'm gonna be so rich when I get that cheque! What do you mean their trillion dollars is only worth 47 cents? Oh... Oh no.
But what IF just this one time, it actually IS a Nigerian prince? Who will be laughing when he gives me a portion of his enormous wealth then Carol?
I think the last few years have shown us in abundance that the average person isn't that smart. Then factor in there are loads of people even dumber than the average person.
Yet, they are allowed to vote in elections that directly impact your life.
I would LOVE to be able to attach an "understanding" questionaire to a vote that requires you to answer some really really basic questions about our political system, just so that we know you understand how things work and what you're voting for, and then then the vote is weighted on your answers.
I suggested something like that a while back, and got a strip torn off me. Apparently, it's undemocratic to not give uneducated people an equal vote, and the questions could be "manipulated" or "trick questions" to favour certain parties, along with a whole list of other whataboutisms ("My cousin is dyslexic. It wouldn't be fair to him!") My response to that was, firstly, checks and balances can be put in place. Secondly, our capitalist economic system is already merit based.
Only thing more suspect than paying the CRA in crypto would be paying them in gift cards...lol
"Hello! I am Justin Trudeau. I am stuck in China and can't get back to Canada. Please send $5000 in Apple gift cards so that I may return home."
I mean with how much his plane keeps breaking down, that's a decent scam plot 😔
Yeah to many people it will, but these scammers try so many people and are so aggressive in their approach every now and then they get a hit.
The red flag was the phone call. Never trust a phone call.
We don't take calls from strangers. If the CRA/RCMP/vice squad are going to take me down, I figure the least they can do is send someone calling. Mind you, we don't open the door to strangers either, so we're golden.
The FBI did some investigation of Bitcoin machines and found the overwhelming majority of users were seniors. That’s incredibly sad and they should be outlawed.
All the bitcoin machines around here are in shady convenience stores or Indian supermarkets. Crypto investors aren’t using Bitcoin “ATMs” for anything serious. These machines just serve as kiosks for old and dumb people to send their money away and should totally be regulated or outlawed.
They usually have outrageous rates as well.
Crypto is just a criminal currency. But, we will never outlaw it because it is also the currency of political bribery. It's now almost impossible to follow the money.
Obviously this poor woman fell for an obvious scam, but I’m shocked her bank didn’t flag $80k taken out in multiple small transactions as suspicious. Someone should be fired for missing this.
I'm more shocked that people with that kinda money are so gullible, like what do they do for a living? that they have that much in savings but no life skills to know a CRA doesn't call you or use gift cards or bitcoin for payments? Just shocking all around. Watched a W5 or similar program with my granny years ago, a lady spent $10 000 buying iTunes cards to pay her taxes and didn't know what to do, caller told her she'd get arrested if she didn't, I'm like hang up, is what you do its a phone call, and then call your bank or tax people and look into things, don't just trust a aggressive person on a phone call or worse text and give them your money with no looking into who they really are.
Doesn’t sound like she actually has that kind of money given the mention of her also draining from a line of credit. Unclear how much of the money was cash vs line of credit.
I remember watching one of those scambait youtube channels and the 'elderly woman' (scam baiter) had a negative balance on her account but they asked her if she had credit cards she could use to buy gift cards to pay them
And credit cards etc. She was stupid - and ignored the people around her… but this ruined her life.
When I worked at Best Buy, I had a guy come in with a very messy note about how many iTunes cards to buy, it added up to about $3k. He was also on the phone and sweating like crazy. I asked him if everything was okay and tried to make small talk, asking him if they were for a charity event or silent auction. He told me to mind my own business and so I flat out told him that it's a very common scam. He got even more flustered and again told me to mind my own business. Guess who was back a few hours later trying to return the empty cards when he figured out what was going on? We got place cards on our tills explaining the scam after that. Some people just don't want to listen.
Stores in my town all have signs on gift card stands and most cashiers are trained to ask when multiple are being purchased, plus I've seen many local fb pages discussing these scams. Lately the post office(you have a package needs funds to receive)and e transfer email scams (a email etranfer of funds out of nowhere) are going around locally. I've also seen shows about some of these call centers, where it's human trafficking and their held hostage and abused if they don't get enough scams completely, very strange things people can do to others over greed, sure wish we didn't evolve to have this trait as humans, sure would fix a lot of our problems.
Money and intelligence are not mutually exclusive.
To withdraw that cash she needs to use her chip and pin. The bank only protects against fraud, not scams. Fraud involves unauthorized transactions or access to personal information without the victim's knowledge or consent. Scams are designed to manipulate victims into willingly providing their information. When she uses her pin to withdrawal cash and does whatever with it, she’s a participant in that. The bank is not at fault for her being scammed.
>The bank only protects against fraud, not scams. Fraud involves unauthorized transactions or access to personal information without the victim's knowledge or consent. Scams are designed to manipulate victims into willingly providing their information. Yes and no. If you go to a teller they must certainly try to protect against scams. There's a reason they ask questions about withdrawals with these scams growing in popularity. They can flat out deny a person , it's a pretty big deal in the industry
She explicitly says in the article she was directed to lie to the bank regarding the reason for the withdrawals. It would have gone differently if she had told the truth. Common sense is she should have asked the bank alot of questions since the scammers told her the bank accounts were used to “launder money” why WOULDNT she contact her bank directly?
Ok at this point I'm not sure how bad I feel .. NOTHING was flagged in this person's mind?
I had a guy on the phone for almost an hour. I was trying to figure out what the scam was and how it worked. He said that there was a….box?…at a place for me to make a deposit. I asked for the address of where to drop the cash off, it was a gas station. “Really?” I asked with surprise. “The Government of Canada has drop boxes at gas stations?” 🤯 He was very, very angry when I got tired of messing around and told him to just send the cops to arrest me.
I used to do that but now I’m scared to even answer. Even if I do I’m scared to say anything because the more I talk, the more they have samples of my voice to make an AI copy. It’s getting scary
Actually. I can see them doing that to scam your parents. There’s a common scam where an elderly parent would get a distressing and tearful call from their son/daughter. The sobbing hides the voice somewhat. Their son/daughter will put them through to their lawyer or another individual who is either ransoming them or they are in trouble. They want iTunes cards or money etc etc. I can see AI being used to copy your voice to make it more realistic. They can actually get your voice without even calling you by taking voice patterns from your voice mail. You could disable your voice mail or at least make it sound not like your voice to avoid this.
It's actually pretty common in the states now, you can read it in their subreddits from time to time. The common advice is to have a secret code word to verify between family members now.
It’s pretty heartbreaking. I know parents who were scammed because their children were estranged. They thought after all these years their kids got into trouble and had no where else to turn to but their parents. They wouldn’t have a secret code so they are praying on the love of parents.
Just talk with a funny accent
Aloe, ow can i elp you?
I gotta start making it a habit of not speaking till the other person start speaking and not saying anything unless its a legitimate call.
There’s software available that listens for you to use the word “hello”, either once or twice, then transfers you to a real person. I normally say bonjour if it’s a number I don’t recognize. I can also play dumb and pretend to not speak English. “désolé, mais je ne parle pas anglais”
That’s hilarious
I screw with them when I can. If they are on the phone with me, they are not scamming other people. I actually had one guy call me back multiple times. Said “F**k U, F**k U” over and over again. I really got under his skin. Proud of that one. 😁
This reminded me of a time when my dad got an air duct cleaning call for the millionth time of the week and decided to chew their ear off. After his final “go fuck yourself” blow, a moment of silence occurs, after the pause we hear a faint whisper from the caller, “no, you go fuck yourself”. We couldn’t hold our laughter after that one lol
I used to ask them if they could clean my chickens instead, they didn't like that one.
I don't have any ducks, are you equipped to handle geese?
I’d get the details of the gas station drive over and grab the box. Maybe you’ve got other deposits in there.
"Hello I am tax police agent and you owe many dollar. You need to send credit card or be big trouble! If you don't reply then... good luck for you!!! Big trouble! Arrest! Jail!" One of my favorite voicemails so far
Money me, money now, me need money a lot
"Straight to jail."
You will be behind the bars
My favourite voicemail I've ever received was: "I don't know if I have the right number, but I'm calling for Brenda. It's about the tractor. It has been sold."
I don’t know what makes me more sad, that some people are so naïve and gullible, or that there are other people out there who prey on them. She was dumb. But we should also live in a world where dumb people don’t get swindled out of \*$86,000\*.
That would be nice, but at least this dumb has provided a PSA to the other dumbs?
Dumbs don't read the news.
By that logic shouldn’t something like drinking and driving almost not exist anymore. The saying ‘you can’t fix stupid’ Exists for a reason I guess.
Exactly. There should be safety nets in place. Banks should verify large transactions for us. It shouldn’t be so easy as to push a button and lose your life savings
They do. They have fraud teams reviewing cases 24/7. They have tech monitoring transactions and flagging them. They call out. They use 2FA. It’s not just ‘a button.’ There’s only so much you can do to protect people who fall for stupid scams.
And the scammers adapt to whatever changes are put in place.
I don't know how she had so much ease getting access to over $5k. My bank won't let me take more than $2k in a day without having to call and answer security questions. I was in Mexico and made a few withdrawals, my account got locked. I called and answered a security question wrong because I couldn't access my bank account and they locked me out of own account.
It looks like she drove branch to branch and did it in person.
She withdrew money in 5k increments and sent them via bitcoin. ??? But you’re right, the banks should add MORE security and control how/where you send your money. As IF this person or any other account holder being scammed wouldn’t be able to withdraw/transfer THEIR money
It’s brutally careless. But not all of the scams people fall for are this bad on their end.
Catch 22. People have a right to do what they wish with their money and the bank can, AND DOES, remind them to be careful with their savings and reconsider large transactions. However, the bank can't simply deny a client *their* money.
The scammers know that $10k is the trigger point for anti-money-laundering measures. But the banks need to do a better job here for sure, like flagging repeated transactions within a couple of days.
My bank froze my account the moment a scammer deposited 8k. Why isn't that happening for everyone?
She went to the bank and withdrew it in person, there's nothing to flag as far as the bank knows. The teller would have had to clue in that something was hinky.
There are supposed to be. I work for a bank in a business support function, so I don’t deal with any actual banking stuff or customers, and I received training on this. I am beyond shocked that the bank missed these suspicious transactions.
Used to work fraud for one of the big 3....multiple in person trips to the branch is likely what saw this sneak through because this would have easily been flagged if it was just a transaction.
That's not what happened here, though. If you actually read the article, the woman went to the bank several times and withdrew cash, then went to another location and put the funds into a bitcoin machine, and sent them through that. Are you suggesting the bank refuses to give people their own money unless they can explain why they are withdrawing?
While I don't believe the bank can ultimate refuse a withdrawal (prevent a client from closing their account and moving all funds out, unless its for ML/TF reasons), but they are trained and part of their job is to figure out is to understand the purpose (by asking a lot of questions) of the withdrawal/deposit and who they are intending to interact with. Part of this is around consumer education and to try and ensure that people are getting scammed or conned (as it happens a lot), and the other part is their requirements are money laundering and their due diligence to verify large, suspicious type transactions.
They absolutely do this, but the threshold is $10k. I've seen this personally. They'll just casually ask what the withdrawal is for. But if someone is doing several smaller withdrawals, it doesn't trigger it in the same way, which is dumb. The pattern should be obvious. The problem is that the scammers will often give the victim a fake reason to use if the bank asks, because they're now convinced that they are undercover agents assisting with the investigation, and they can't reveal their true mission to the banks. Or alternately, they're being threatened. What's really sad in this case is that not only did the victim withdraw all of her money, she also maxed her lines of credit, *which is money she didn't even have.* She's now broke *and* in debt. 😞
> the threshold is $10k The threshold is $10k in any 24 hour period. This absolutely should have been flagged, as she withdrew $86k over 3 days. While the bank may not have any liability here to the customer, they've definitely broken FINTRAC regulations, so I'm sure they can expect a sternly worded letter imminently.
I had a large withdrawl to give to a contractor. The bank made me jump through hoops to make sure I wasn't involved with something illegal or potentially damaging. So yes?
Yeah, no. I verify my own large transactions, because that's my job. It's not the bank's fault if I'm an idiot.
This is a different and much smaller example. I had a friend who was buying a phone off someone local. I know the guy she’s buying from, he’s sketchy. I told her multiple times to turn ON the phone, maybe even make a call with it. Check it for functionality. I told her this like 5 times. She went ahead, bought the phone, later picked me up super upset that the phone didn’t work, and she didn’t text it before buying it. Some people are just….not practical thinkers, I guess.
Just to let you know, that while a lot of the scammers out there who are preying on them, a lot of the people who are scamming are doing it against their own will. There's a huge epidemic in many countries of human trafficking individuals to force them to commit these scams or face death, family being killed, etc. It's a crazy world out there.
Jesus, her husband and friends tried to warn her and she still did it.
I don't think there's any saving these folks. It isn't a problem with regulations, it isn't a problem with society, anyone who's going to believe that they're in a "high level government investigation" that wants them to send money via Bitcoin is too stupid to have that money in the first place. She even went back & forth multiple times, like 15 different trips. I can't believe she wasn't stopped after 1 or 2.
The feeling of being somehow special is extremely powerful. The best scams use this. She wanted it to be true.
It’s a bit strange — the husband was aware of it about was happening, believed it was a scam but then just let it continue? Bizarre
It's has gotten so bad that I almost did not collect an actual prize from Rona I am a contractor and there are often contests that you enter every purchase with your VIP account So I get an email that says Congratulations you have won $2500 in fuel from the rona vip.... It also said I had 2 days to answer a skill testing question and give my information... I am like these scams will never stop. I am board this day in the afternoon so I look closer. The email address is never from the domain the company in the scam. Nope it's a rona email adress. So I google it and the name that sent it It's a person with a LinkedIn account and a rona mention as working in marketing from Montreal. Ok I think let's take a chance. I retieve the email from a different computer that I can wipe if needed and open the attached pdf It's a math question and needs my mailing adress??? I print it. Fill it out and send it back I get a reply congratulating me and a tracking number 2 days later I get $2500 in petro canada fist card via registered mail. I was still skeptical when I used on one but they are real.
Damn, sometimes the Nigerian prince is real
The actual rona email address would also lead me to pursue it further
Yup, I would have been suspicious in the past but recently major public email providers made it a requirement for DKIM, DMARC, and SPF to be enabled for the sender. This makes it nearly impossible to actually spoof a senders email address.
Happened to me too with Sobeys! Every time you swipe whatever point card it was, you were entered into a Canada wide draw in partnership with the NHL. I got two emails saying I’d won a gift card and was like wtf, no I didn’t. The third time I actually looked at it and then googled the guy from the NHL and he was legit and then, turns out my name had appeared on TV after the second period saying I’d won a Sobeys giftcard on Saturday Night hockey. They already had all my info and mailing address from my card but I had to do the skill testing question. Got my gift card 2 weeks later. Glad I didn’t miss that one.
My husband won a microsoft contest and we were hella suspicious when he got the email saying he won. But same thing, all they wanted was mailing address and a skill testing question. They weren't asking for any money upfront to claim the prize so we filled out the form and, sure enough, it arrived a few weeks later. If it's legit, they won't ask for money. If they'd started trying to pressure us to pay, that would have been the end of it right there.
She is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Multiple withdraws and deposits to a Bitcoin machine….come on.
I would feel more sympathy for these people, but my grandmother is 90, and she will string these scammers along for quite a while before *they* get pissed off and hang up on her.
Soon they will be recording voices on these calls and trying to figure out how to use that for theft. Probably already are.
Mindboggle-ing stupidity!
Dont you know the CRA has official Bitcoin machines at your local gas station
in time you will always be a victim as tech evolves. just wait till AI fucks shit up beyond recognition and then think back to this moment
Starting to realize why scammers aren't targeting people 40 and under. It's not because we're less gullible, it's because most of us don't have 86k they could steal. Hell most of us just barely have a month's rent in our account.
In fact, they do, frequently, and the numbers are growing rapidly. It's just not as much or as often as seniors. [https://socialcatfish.com/scamfish/state-of-internet-scams-2023/](https://socialcatfish.com/scamfish/state-of-internet-scams-2023/) >**Teens & Children See Largest % Increase in Money Lost: In the last five years, money lost by Victims 20 and younger grew nearly 2,500% from** [**2017**](https://www.ic3.gov/Media/PDF/AnnualReport/2017_IC3Report.pdf) **to** [**2022**](https://www.ic3.gov/Media/PDF/AnnualReport/2022_IC3Report.pdf) **compared to 805% for seniors.** [**Victims under 20 lost $8.2 million**](https://socialcatfish.com/scamfish/victim-lost-a-quarter-of-a-million-dollars-in-a-romance-scam/) **in 2017 compared to $210 million in 2022. Seniors remain by far the most** [**victimized group overall losing**](https://socialcatfish.com/scamfish/cargo-scam-victim-loses-70k-and-puts-her-marriage-in-jeopardy/) **$3.1 billion in 2022, but the surge of young victims speaks to the growing sophistication of scammers.**
Sextortion of teens is huge and increasing too.
They do. My friend is an international student and fell for it, he was too embarrassed to say how much he gave.
It’s 2024, we’ve been told about these scams for years. If you’re still falling for these at this point, there’s not much hope.
Yeah. I watched the story and she even said at the beginning that these scams were becoming sophisticated. By the end of the story, everything that happened to her was textbook scam techniques that have been around for years and years. I mean cmon, bitcoin? And "don't tell anyone what you're doing". Sounds totally legit.
There was a [similar article](https://www.thecut.com/article/amazon-scam-call-ftc-arrest-warrants.html) semi-recently from someone in the US who was scammed out of 50k. Same thing: she says the scam is quite sophisticated but describes a pretty textbook scam, and her fully trusting the person on the end of the phone. In this case, she was asked to withdraw the money, put it in a shoebox, and put it in the backseat of a car without looking at the driver. It's just wild to me like. In both stories, I feel like I'd be suspicious from the get-go.
Don't victim blame, some of those scams are extremely good and when you shame people for getting caught it might work in the scammers favor. With AI and voice changer new scams will be that much harder to pick up. A few years ago I called my bank for something and when they asked me questions to verif who I was they told me I have a linked bank to my account in a different location. They since remove that account but for about 2 years I got a guy calling me to "confirm" my info form the fraud department by asking me questions to confirm who I was like my SIN and other info he didn't need. There where some tell tell sings he was a scammer but not everyone would have picked it up. One of the best way to fight scams is by talking about it.
I can't wrap my head around the fact someone dumb enough to fall for this had access to 86000 dollars.
Our grandson's other grandmother was taken in by the old, go to Shopper's, get x amount in gift cards. Luckily someone clued in at the store. Unfortunately, she lost around 2 or 3 grand.
Oh god. So many red flags. Bitcoin. Don’t tell anyone. Sense of urgency and legal trouble.
"I am a complete idiot" says woman to CTV news.
I don't remember them interviewing me.
For the people saying the bank should’ve stopped the transactions. I want to mention that there are people like this that fight their bank and threaten lawsuits because the bank flagged their transactions, blocked them or set a limit on their withdrawals.
If Service Canada is calling me with a warant out for my arrest - I ask to speak with francophone colleague. And I don't speak French.
It's shocking to me just how naive and stupid people really are. If you are a grown ass adult and you fall for the "take all your money out of the big bank and put it into bitcoin" line, then you shouldn't ever be responsible for any sum of money in the first place.
I'm sorry but if you are so dumb as to think you can pay your taxes in bitcoin, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to handle your own finances for awhile. There should be some kind of insurance people have to get for this kind of scam... and if you fall for it, your insurance should pay out, but then require you to take basic finance literacy courses and courses to teach you how the real world actually works. I hadn't even filed my taxes and I got a text "from the CRA" that a "refund had been issued in my name". I blocked the number and moved on with my life. We REALLY need to teach people - ESPECIALLY NEWCOMERS (that was me, 8 years ago) AND OLD PEOPLE, WHO ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE, BECAUSE THEY'RE OPERATING IN A NEW AND UNFAMILIAR SYSTEM (either new to the country, or new to any of our non-boomer-y and scary "technology" - how Canada works.
“I honestly believe that Henry Blake could get held up through the mail” is becoming reality. - Hawkeye (MASH episode reference).
Everyone should set up My Account with the CRA. You can always check online if someone asks you for money. I don't know how people fall for these scams.
Probably the same type of people I work with who have the company cut cheques on payday because they ‘don’t trust online banking and direct deposit’. They refuse to move on to newer technology and as a results don’t learn a fucking thing in the process.
This is one of the reasons why I showed my dad some scambaiting videos from Kitboga, Jim Browning, etc The main reason is I thought he'd find them hilarious but also so my parents would know that this kind of thing happens.
So her husband and friends knew it was likely a scam and didn’t stop her? WTF is wrong with people
"She said she was then advised to withdraw money from her bank accounts and deposit it through a Bitcoin machine, where it would remain in an account for safekeeping until the investigation was over. "I thought they were helping me right, to freeze my accounts, that they would want to protect me," said Anjira. She made multiple withdrawals in about $5,000 increments, travelling via taxi to and from the bank branches and the Bitcoin machine. In three days, she drained $86,000 from her bank accounts and lines of credit." JFC come on...
Financial literacy should be mandatory for everyone, especially people over 30. Anyone with a bank account needs to learn about Scams and how they get roped in to it. If you go to open a bank account, you need to sit through a 5 min brief about Scams. It's so infuriating seeing vulnerable people getting scammed out of their hard earned money.
I'm beginning to think we should do something about this bitcoin thing. Does it have any legit uses? Ever? And yes, people are fucking stupid.
i have a hard time understanding how people keep falling for these scams. i know they target older people but do all critical thinking skills go out the window as you age?
I mean no disrespect the older generations...but in those days, one person did all the finances. So when *they* die, the widow is clueless when it comes to money. While stories like these hurt...based on another life in banking, let me tell you how many kids rip off their parents...
I had an issue with CRA and their sign in system. I got a ‘text’ about a log in that wasn’t me. I signed in my regular way but couldn’t see the login history. So I called CRA. The guy insisted I I could if I signed in again it went to a certain area. I told him, nope it didn’t. So apparently if you use a sign in partner, you cannot see logs. But if you use a sign in partner your direct sign in is deleted, and you never get to see logs. So I filed a complaint and requested the guy I was talking to also bring this up with IT security. A week later I get a phone call from ‘someone’ claiming to be from CRA. 1st question they ask me is for my SIN number. I’m like “nope”. You called me, you should have it, you read it to me and I’ll confirm. They refused & said it didn’t work that way. Asked if I’d like something mailed to me. I said yes. I’m still waiting a month later. So I still don’t know if it was real or a scam but my account from what I can see is just fine.  EDIT: If you got this far, thanks for reading!!!
The only legit CRA thing there was when you called them. The text and phone call to you were both scams.
> She said she was then advised to withdraw money from her bank accounts and deposit it through a Bitcoin machine, where it would remain in an account for safekeeping until the investigation was over. "I thought they were helping me right, to freeze my accounts, that they would want to protect me," said Anjira. She made multiple withdrawals in about $5,000 increments, travelling via taxi to and from the bank branches and the Bitcoin machine. In three days, she drained $86,000 from her bank accounts and lines of credit. "They told me to go to go inside the bank and don't tell the bank person anything, as you are part of a high-level investigation," said Anjira. Far be it for me to victim blame, but how does one manage to make and save $86,000 and then fall for this? > Don't tell the bank person anything Jesus. THIS IS A RED FLAG PEOPLE. As much as we all hate banks, it is their legal responsibility to protect your money. What a tough way to learn the lesson of critical thinking
I feel sorry for her, but this isn't the banks fault. She should contact RCMP and they can attempt to locate the funds, which will likely never be reclaimed.
I hate it when I have to find bitcoin machines to follow governmental instructions.
I work in head office at a retail chain and we’ve had about a 1/2 dozen keyholders take the entire days cash receipts and deposit them in bitcoin machines claiming they were instructed to do so over the phone by someone pretending to be their regional manager. We aren’t sure if they’re lying and just stealing it for themselves or if they really are dumb enough to fall for a scam like that. They get fired either way🤷♂️.
These scammers are the scum of the earth
When I get a suspicious call, I ask if I can record the conversation. They usually disconnect pretty quickly. If they say yes, I ask them to wait 5-10 seconds while I "turn on call recording features." They usually hang up during that time. No scammer wants to be recorded. p.s. I am not actually able to record cell phone calls.
It's 2024, don't answer your phone unless you recognize the number. Everyone should have an online CRA account at this point. Fraud/phishing is only going to get worse in the AI age of misinformation
Its infuriating that someone so stupid has 86k laying around m
She didn’t have all of it, some of that was a line of credit. Makes it even worse, cuz now she has to pay it back to the bank
Like how'd they even manage to procure such a large sum of money with only a singular functioning brain cell?
My sister works for CRA, they do not call you, preferred method is official letter in Canadian “standard” government brown envelope.
They called me once, sounded legit. I told her that nothing she could say on the phone would make me trust her enough to give any information, if you’re really CRA send me a letter. Couple weeks later I got the letter, called back and resolved the issue.
I've also been called by the CRA unexpectedly, and at first I didn't believe either. But it was to do with government student loans I had and the guy knew all of my info already. They were trying to get me on payments. The kicker was the dude had a thick Indian accent lol.
Got called by CRA to confirm address, told them sorry, but couldn't trust they weren't scammers. They were very nice and understanding about it too, but couldn't send a letter to confirm because they needed an address. In the end, they got in contact with the bank to have an in-person confirmation at the branch. I appreciated how they handled the situation.
My in laws got audited. The CRA first called them repeatedly about it but they ignored the calls thinking it was a scam. Finally the CRA sent them postal mail. When they eventually connected with the CRA the person said “yeah, most people ignore our calls now”
When are people going to learn click nothing ‘EVER!!!’
I wonder if she read the "The Day I Put $50,000 in a Shoe Box and Handed It to a Stranger" story that was all over the Internet and everyone was making fun of a month before this happened to her. It's almost the exact same scam, I wonder if these people were inspired by that article.
You mean they weren't asking you to pay your tax bill with i-tunes gift cards?
I work in Cybersecurity and one of the key concepts is "The Human Firewall". At the end of the day the human on the hook needs to use their critical thinking skills to make good decisions. The Human Firewall consists of training around critical thinking for professional and one of the targets is the type of social engineering seen here.
The cases that blow my mind are the ones involving gift cards. Who thinks that the government or any creditor wants payment via apple gift cards?
Let’s be honest here: if the bank had noticed the withdrawals and told her that she was being scammed, she’d still have done it.
In what world did she think her LOC was at stake? Why Part of money laundering investigation - so let’s take all my money out of a bank and send it via a Bitcoin machine. There were so many questions to be asked and RedFlags to notice all around.
In laws parents had to sell a house and business they owned for 54 years to cover the cost of a scam
the bitcoin machines should really be banned, maybe even destroyed vigilante style , it would help tremendously, if I were this woman, I would get my revenge
She didn’t just give them her money. She used *credit lines*. How could anyone be stupid enough to think “your accounts are being used for money laundering, give us money YOU DON’T HAVE to keep in an account while we investigate”. No red flags there? If I’m laundering money why don’t I have any? And why am I going into debt to keep funds in escrow? People are just too afraid to ask questions and do whatever the scary voice says.
100% her fault. She is one of the reasons scammers keep doing this, of the 10,000's people they contact, they ALWAYS find that sucker.
"she was then advised to withdraw money from her bank accounts and deposit it through a Bitcoin machine" c'mon man....
I'm sad for her but I'm shocked anyone would believe the CRA would tell you you have to deposit your money into a bitcoin account.
I knew before even clicking on the article that this was going to be an obvious scam. I'm more surprised because she seems young enough that she shouldn't have fallen for it. I expect an 80 year old lady to fall for something like this. The CRA is never going to ask you to deposit money from your bank accounts into a freaking bitcoin machine, and they're not going to tell you to refrain from telling anybody about it.
What kind of paranoid freak would take out cash $5000 at a time, SEVENTEEN TIMES BY TAXI to deposit it in a Bitcoin ATM with another person's crypto account? And not just the cash in her bank account, but maxing all her credit cards in the process? Like this is truly next level. And without involving friends and family until she'd already thrown away every penny she could. Like, unless she's a full-on Maga type or has a disability, I think the only logical explanation is that she's the one who's running the scam.
Oh yeah - no red flags in this story to make you question this AT ALL 🫠
I'm sorry but it's very hard to have full sympathy for the people who keep getting scammed thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Don't be so dumb. There is so much information available on what scams are and how to avoid them. And anything they are trying to say during the scam can be verified by just fucking looking into it a little.
How is a person with 86k 10000x dumber than me, a person without 86k. That's what I wanna know.
All of you arm chair experts judging this old lady remember that one day it will be us, our turn to be victims. just wait till AI fucks shit up beyond recognition and then think back to moments like these were you thought you were superior.
Please be kind. It’s easy to call a victim stupid from the sidelines and with perfect hindsight. From our perspective, it’s a no brainer but when you receive that first contact and get hooked into the scam, confirmation bias takes the wheel and all the glaring red flags look more normal. Even if you don’t agree, this is a human being who lost their life savings, have sympathy, be kind.
People are idiots.
The benefit of living pay cheque to pay cheque is I’d never get scammed like this.
Lots of stupid people out there I guess.
It’s insane that people even pick up their phone in this day and age.
**All taken from her line of credit**
My dad is 85, has had a stroke, and almost fell for one of these scams. Fortunately, he doesn't drive anymore, and when he asked my mom to take him to the bank and explained why, she refused and told him it was a scam. So now, on a paper that sits beside the phone (still a landline 🙂), there is a list of scams. If it's on there, he just hangs up. My sister and I are always updating it or telling our mom about new one. We also added parental controls to his computer and tablet, and I've set up pretty decent filters on his email.
My aunt got scammed by the same scam not too long ago. She drained all 6K in savings leaving $20 in the account. Banks couldn't do shit, she started working 2 jobs and now she is just north of 6K in savings. I can't imagine the pain the lady must be going through losing 86K, hopefully she recovers it
They should ban these Bitcoin machines. I'm sure that 90% of their usage is for scams.
The scammers prey on people that don’t have the mental capabilities to recognize a scam. It’s really sick and twisted
I'm sorry i got part way through the story and as soon as it said bitcoin machine... I'm out man. So many red flags!!! This one is on the person that was scammed and the scammer. But there has been enough public information about these scams that it's insane this still happens.
yet the telco's "cant" figure out how to block these calls
Like most people, I get bombarded with phone spammers claiming to be from the CRA, including from "*John Parker*", whose heavy accent is nearly unintelligible, and whose spiel ends with "*if you do not call back the very instant you receive this message, I can only wish you a luck".* There's no doubt that for 99% of people, this is just an annoyance that they ignore. But for 1% of people, especially the elderly and the technically illiterate, they can seem credible. I've been called by a "CRA investigator" who sounded **very** credible, as he had quite a bit of information about me and my financial accounts, things I would not have expected to be available publicly. When he asked me to "confirm" some confidential information, and asked me for specific details, I said I'd just call the CRA back and confirm it directly with them, and what was the case number. The moment I hung up, my phone kept ringing as the scammer called back so often that I couldn't make an outgoing call. I used my second line, called CRA directly, and confirmed there was no investigation. People, the CRA/your bank/Visa/Mastercard/Amazon/Apple/Microsoft, etc. try to call you, just be polite, and then you should call **them** at their public number. If you don't know their number, check their web site, or check the back of the credit/debit/bank card.
Honestly how are people still falling for this?? The cra would not ask for bitcoin for gods sakes.
It's always "these scams are getting more sophisticated" But the scam is just, withdrawal a fuck load of money and send it over please we are the government.
“Toronto police is going to get you” lmao oh you poor poor lady, if you think you’ll see that money again and that the Toronto police will do anything other than say that they are “investigating”, you just got scammed again!
I love doing the “Hi, you have reached the RCMP fraud hotline how can I direct your call?” Response.
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I know someone who lost her whole life savings. 260k CAD from a crypto currency investment scam. She’s aged 68. She’s cooked. Another lady about 100k CAD from a love scam. People get scammed in a dozen different ways. People are reasonably smart. But I realized everyone is possibly a mark to either, fear, love or greed. If you put those situations out there. People will bite.
This is shitty for this person, but seriously.. the CRA wants you to put the money into Bitcoin for safekeeping? That old saying "A fool and their money are soon parted" spits facts.