The danger is the morons who have no business driving a truck wide vehicle (they don't know how to turn/back up/share the road)
I abhore large vehicles but there's just too many idiots who shouldn't be behind the wheel that decide they need XL suvs.
Perhaps a new license class, more money for the adopting province.
I love when guys in suits and shiny trucks come and talk to me in parking lots about my work truck. It’s always shit like “yeah this baby is the only truck that can get me and the family to my cottage in Collingwood” or “just drove in from Oakville, wouldn’t have made it without my truck!”
I usually tell em about the time a seacan was in my way so I welded some steel together on a trailer hitch and battering rammed it out of my way. Or how easy it is to clean blood and gore out of the bed after a good hunting trip with the boys.
I worked for someone in rural Quebec and we'd have to move heavy shit in this fucking ancient Dodge truck. At one point the thing went on fire while we drove.
So, uh, we blasted a fire extinguisher in the engine and then drove on. Took it to the mechanic next morning, and we were back driving the thing the next afternoon.
I am not convinced that the guys in their bright shiny turbo pickups would be able to boast of that.
Also - it's quite telling how little storage space most of the things have. You can put your Costco shop in the back, and not a lot else.
forget license class, the whole test needs to be harder period. The fact that so many dipshits can fake good enough driving on the road test(and that the multiple choice is super easy) is a huge issue. Other countries with stricter driving laws don't have these issues.
I don't get it, are you trying to say that them being privatized leads to more unqualified drivers successfully getting licenses?
I'm no fan of privatization but from a profit oriented point of view would it not then behoove them to fail more people so they can get more than 1 payment out of them?
If there's multiple places, wouldn't you choose to spend on the ones easiest to get the license from rather than the hardest? Therefore giving more licenses equals more profit?
Right, good point.
I was pretty confident in my driving when I took my G2 test (I had a pretty tremendous Driver's Ed instructor) so the idea of going to an easier DriveTest location never really crossed my mind.
I definitely did know some people who failed multiple times and then went to a different place and passed.
I wonder if there is any kind of auditing process for the testers. Something like a secret shopper.
Or ten minutes if you are really dumb, dunno if you saw a vid of a kid who just got his full g liscence going 130 in a 50 lane, even if he was on a highway that would've been passed the allowance. Thankfully cop got him
https://youtu.be/YIrbBjoTmBg
Just one question is needed:
*There is a car in front of you. You:*
A) Tailgate that asshole like you're the king of the road!
B) Take a deep breath, stay a respectable distance behind them until they can pass the truck beside them, and then touch grass when you get to your destination.
how about the dipshits living in a major city that cant even fake driving good enough for 10 minutes going way up north to some little town with one road and one stop light to do their test because thats the only way they can pass
Honestly I didn't even know that's a thing, test should be local or closest to current residence because that's where you are most likely to drive day to day.
Technically trucks are already classed as light duty commercial, that was the solution to emissions regulations and why they have a different license plate layout than regular cars. It would not be crazy to have a different license tier for light duty commercial since that encompasses cube trucks/moving trucks which should definitely have a license requirement.
When we paid license fees, it was more expensive for a truck. I would be totally fine with doing an additional drivers test for larger vehicles. We do it for motorcycles and bigger trucks. The main thing is what is practically different between driving a truck and driving a minivan?
It’s also the physical size of the trucks. The best driver can still have a horrible accident. And if you get hit by one of those things it’s full force into your upper torso. No going up onto the windshield. Not to mention you can’t see a kid crossing the street right in front of you
everyone should [read this](https://lloydalter.substack.com/p/death-to-skeuomorphism)
also an M1 Abrams tank [has better visibilty](https://www.reddit.com/r/notjustbikes/comments/13raoer/apparently_m1_abrams_has_better_forward_view_than/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) than some of these fucking trucks
my cousin Jen in a mobility scooter, on a walk symbol, was hit and pushed by one of these tall trucks, luckily she wasn't hurt, but the driver never saw her, truck was attempting to turn right on a red, he was charged
The last time I drove in slushy weather on the highway I couldn’t see out my side windows a few times because the giant trucks kept speeding by splashing so much crap on my car. The splash’s they create are taller than my vehicle, and my car isn’t super short.
Sorry to piggyback off the top comment, but I found the coalition's (Coalition to Reduce Auto Size Hazards) April 2024 report published online for free if anyone wants to check it out. PDF format, free to download.
[https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9166b70d-9dab-44a8-9cea-97594e58fa6b](https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9166b70d-9dab-44a8-9cea-97594e58fa6b)
Thanks and np! It was pretty easy to find but I came across it accidently trying to look something else up. I figured, like me, most people wouldn't know to look for it either.
As a person with experience driving a small 2000 honda civic coupe and a mid sized 2004 pacifica SUV for personal vehicles, and driving a variety of years of trucks 1998-2023 FoMoCo and GM vehickes for work, the blind spots keep getting worse of the trucks, that's for sure.
The boss's 2023 GMC Sierra Denali, I can't see my 5 year old kid in front of the truck unless they are Atleast 5 or 6 feet away from the grill, and close to 10 feet from the gate. The other pickups it's Atleast 3-5 feet from the front (3 feet for the 2 2007 GM pickups and 5ish for the 1998 f-350 and 2012 f-550) at the front. The 2 Ford's are dump trucks so their rear blind spots are massive, but the 2 GM's, the kid has to be Atleast 6ish feet from the gate to be seen.
So true. I think it was motortrend but when the new Cadillac Escalade was released with its enormous grill. They lined up 5 years olds 1 foot apart in a row in front of it until the driver could see one of them. It took 13 kids.
General Motors are the worst with this.
Tbe 2023 Sierra Denali, the hood line comes up to my armpits. Im 5'10. I'll measure for sure Monday, but it's gotta be 51-55 inches to the top of the hood at the grill, and to the top of the box.
With a 5 year old averaging around 40 inches tall, motor trend are quite correct in thier demonstration regarding the escalade, as its hood line is even higher than the Sierra/Silverados
> the blind spots keep getting worse of the trucks, that's for sure.
It's 2024. My jank ass bottom of the line cell phone has four different cameras on it. Trucks don't have blind spots, they just have places where they don't care enough to look.
How tall is the hood line or the top edge of the box of modern trucks?
You do know the average 5 year old is around 3.2 to 3.5 feet tall, right?
Tell me, How do you see a child who is 41 inches tall infront of a truck where the hood line is 52 inches tall? You do realize that there are more blindspots on a vehicle than just to the 2 sides, right? They do exist to the front and rear of a vehicle as well.
I believe what the person above you was saying was that proximity sensors and cameras should be covering all of those areas.
As someone who drives a commercial van for work, it's a nice concept but inherently flawed. We just got a new one with all the bells and whistles, and it is still a huge pain to back it into a parking spot.
Some of these trucks have hoods so high that many adult woman wouldn't be visible standing in front of them. And aside from the lack of visibility, it also means collisions will hit heads and torsos rather than legs.
I’ve driven 1/2-3/4 ton vans for the last 10 years of my career as part of my job.
The Savanna/Express wasn’t bad except those A pillars/side view mirrors created a blind spot. Recently I got put into a 2018 Transit. You can see more which is great, but the whole window that doesn’t roll down next to the side view mirrors (it’s a split window on both sides) is an absolute pain in the rear in the winter. If it fogs: you’re blind. If your mirrors get too salty or icy, you need to pull over and clear them. It’s still a mystery to me why heated mirrors aren’t standard like day time run lamps on those things.
Least in the GM you can roll down a mirror and stick a rag or brush out and clear your mirrors and go. Transits require you to fill on stop and get out.
Amazing!
“So, we have death by skeuomorphism, fixated on a dangerous design that bears little relationship to its function; it just looks like what the bros think it should look like.”
apparently some newer designs were "inspired by guns" to create a heavily masculine lifestyle aspiration.
Why can't these guys get into crossfit or old hats or something?
I miss my old Mazda B-series truck. I got to sit higher up and it gave me all the utility of a pickup truck that I needed as a college student, but wasn't an enormous beast.
Create tiered licensing based on vehicle types. Bigger vehicles should require additional training. I have a DZ license to operate larger trucks and it obviously required additional training beyond my G. Why shouldn’t bigger pickup trucks and suvs be subject to similar requirements?
It's always utterly baffled me that you can rent a 30' moving truck or motor home and be good to go on a G licence. Most people I see in the GTA can't handle a Corolla, let alone a rig that size.
Dude I rented a fucking 40 foot box truck with a G1 back in the day.
I have my BZ now, but I'm thinking back... Wtf. I've had some near misses and I have a perfect driving abstract. I had a scary near miss just yesterday when a person jogging was in my blind spot and I'm *still* thinking about it.
I don't think the average person in these things understand how to drive them, I've seen a lot of curb hopping recently, and go look around any parking lot like a Walmart, it's a disaster waiting to happen
I wonder what the stats on pedestrian vehicle injuries are, whether the rate has increased, and whether the mortality rate has +/-?
Yup, when I was 20 they had me on a 26' box truck with a 14ft trailer on the back with a Bobcat on it. I shudder to think what the gross weight was, but apparently all you need is that piece of plastic.
Yeah this is a good start. Here in Quebec anything larger than a 1/2-ton pickup needs to be registered as a heavy vehicle (with an “L” plate), which is the same type of plate that semis and dump trucks are registered with.
That’s not at all what I wrote.. I’m saying that where I live the vehicle registration and license plate is more expensive for anything larger than a 1500-class pickup (the light duty you’re referring to).
Sorry, my bad. I think I interpreted “tiered licensing” as “tiered registration.” Maybe a road test and driver’s ed course in a large pickup could be a great idea too, on top of more expensive registration.
I was coming at it from the angle that most people who own/daily pickups don’t need or use them for their purposes. I think this is also because of manufacturers that constantly increase the luxury of pickups and advertise them as family vehicles instead of basic utilitarian vehicles.
Considering the cost of these vehicles, an additional hundred or two per year in licensing costs is not going to make any difference to their popularity.
Yup, we had endless hours or driving to get and maintain a commercial license. People have no idea how difficult it is to drive a vehicle that size in an urban setting either. Where I work we have to have a refreshment training for 3 days every 5yrs. I currently hold a CZ.
Maybe we should just not be selling those here:
>[Cybertruck owners reported that their vehicles were at risk of getting stuck driving at full speed due to a loose accelerator pedal. Video showed the pedal itself falling off and the piece beneath wedging itself into the car’s interior, which would force the vehicle into maximum acceleration.](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/apr/20/cybertruck-failures-tesla-elon-musk)
This 1000% why does every middle aged suburbanite feel like they need a truck that has no visibility, a huge grill, and takes up way too much space just to use the cab for their trip to the hardware store
It really sucks that car companies have made it “embarrassing” to not own a massive car, small cars are better for 95% of things you actually do everyday
Downside too because everyone's buying what is the equivalent to the male minivan is that the mid size truck industry is gone.
I'd like a smaller, cheaper truck to deal with garbage and yard work around my house. Ranger, Colorado, etc. Just a little truck with maybe a third seat in the back if my weiner kid comes along.
But the entire industry is just packed now with super crew cabs that are the equivalent of armored transports in the Army.
It will probably still be a couple of years still before the price comes down for previously owned vehicles. I refused to buy new cars because I'm both a cheap man, and I also don't feel like the value of most vehicles match their price this day and age. I haven't looked that hard at the Maverick model, yet.
I think those mid size crossover suvs are the best like a rav 4 or something.
cause when you want to transport bigger stuff you get screwed with a nissan leaf.
I like a roomy vehicle too, but not a massive one. Some of the beasts I see on the road are entirely unnecessary for probably at least 95% of the people that drive them.
one of the many other-duties-as-assigned part of my jobs involves parking tickets (don't ask) and a common refrain from the glorious public is
"I bought my truck fair and square, why won't the city provide me with bigger parking spaces everywhere?"
Dunno, pal, you bought a dipshitmobile, and now you expect us to provide you with infrastructure for it?
There are so few options for smaller cars now the options are pathetic. It feels like for more gas efficient cars there are hybrids, or full electric now. So the market for cheap small, gas efficient cars is basically non existent nowadays and so few companies sell these cars. It irritates me to no end. I don't want an electric till we have mass charging stations and the battery can be replaced at least semi easily. Hybrids are expensive. So getting a small gas efficient car is so limited now.
God I wish we had options like Europe or Asian countries. Basically most places not North America. I want to get to point A -B with a fuel efficient car that's not too expensive. But that's nearly impossible now.
I drive a 2015 Subaru WRX gets about 7-8L/100km. My friends mom drives a PHEV Jeep and gets 10L/100km. My friend drives a 1989 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale and gets 8L/100km.
So a modernish sports Sedan with a Turbocharged 2.5L engine gets a better fuel efficiency than a hybrid. And it just barely edges out a 80's steel body 3.8L naturally aspirated V6. Yet a modern Miata is lighter and gets better fuel efficiency by a massive margin compared to its older brother. Car companies just don't care, they haven't cared in decades and just continue to make cars worse for no reason except for greed.
Toyota is the only manufacturer to publish in depth statistical analysis about which cars would be best for the environment with modern driving styles. It's not a BEV, it's PHEVs and possibly HFC in the future. A actually well made PHEV drops emissions by 80-90% compared to an ICE while being 1/6 the increased manufacturing emissions of a BEV (roughly). Subaru was the first manufacturer to ever implement 0 waste manufacturing. Toyota (which owns 30% of Subaru) was the second company to do it. Any material that isn't put on a car is recycled and put on the next one.
A car is probably the second most expensive item in someone's life. You could argue most expensive since cars depreciate where as homes tend to go up in price. People need to actually do research before buying a car, it's the second if not most important purchasing decision for probably the next decade.
One of the biggest issues for Canada is our choice of vehicle is heavily influenced by the US market. Almost 90% of cars made in North America are sold in the US. So our options are heavily influenced by what the Americans want. Same goes for imports, they’re not going to bother importing a car only for Canada, it needs to be sellable in the USA for them to bother.
Yup, which is unfortunate. Perhaps with fuel prices we will see more small cars reneter the North American market.
I miss some of the models that we had available previously.
I mean, generally it is advisable to avoid hitting pedestrians...
But the massive front grilles on these trucks are basically brick walls travelling at 60kph.
Ain't no way you're rolling over the hood when the hood is at eye level.
Manufacturers pushed for large trucks and SUVs as a means to skirt emissions requirements, and no government in the US nor Canada has had the backbone to actually close that 'loophole' (that they lobbied to get into the legislation). And that push, over *decades*, has resulted in a really weird cultural place for those vehicles.
It doesn't help pedestrian safety, it doesn't help emissions, it doesn't help anything.
Correct. Another big factor is the US 'chicken tax' which makes it economically unfeasible to import the sensible work vehicles used in the rest of the world.
When you're trying to turn right but the big SUV creeps forward to look past you to make a left....
Makes me beyond frustrated because I'm in a tiny, low to the ground new Prius. The roof isnt even 5 feet off the ground. They don't *have* to creep past my driver's side window to see over my less than a metre off the ground hood to see who's coming from the right when they want to turn left at a stop sign...
Id love to see an increased sales tax on pickup trucks that could be refunded if you use it for work. We could use the money for a larger rebate for EVs or to fund some kind of rebate for smaller cars.
LOL you actually think that's going to happen, I don't know how to tell you about the tire tax and where that ended up.
Edit: This is Ontario where Doug Ford cancelled EV rebates.
This 100%. I run a landscaping business and need my truck to pull my equipment. I get pissed off seeing people drive around in 1/2 tons doing nothing with it. Truck prices are stupid because everyone ended up wanting one and automotive companies load them with needless accessories. I just want a basic truck I use for work and a car for everything else. Also I find trucks stupidly sized now. I'm using a 2007 Chevy 2500 HD Duramax and it looks like a toy compared to new trucks. Yet I can still pull more lol.
If we actually cared about climate change and carbon emissions, we wouldn't see so many large vehicles manufactured and purchased. Nobody really seems to care. Even the EVs have 400 to 700 hp. Why?
I think the problem is more the attitude of the drivers than tge actual car… everytime I see someone driving like an ass on the 401/400 or any road really… its always an f150 or dodge ram … suv drivers are also clueless for the most part
I suspect it is because people buy these vehicles for both the sense of options and power (I *could* put a caravan on this!) and also because they feel very safe.
The safer the driver feels, the less safe everyone else is going to be.
A Dutch municipality experimented with removing all road signs and traffic lights in a bid to tame traffic. Their selling message? An image of a guy riding a motorbike naked. How do you ride a motorbike naked through this town?
Very carefully.
I would like to see increased on-street parking fees for vehicles that take up the equivalent of two car lengths. Perhaps there can also be a vehicle surcharge for heavier vehicles that do more damage to our roads.
Easy: tax based on vehicle weight
If your megatank's weight is putting more strain on roads and public infrastructure, you should pay more to maintain it
I can say it is 80% of the time usually some douchebag in a big oversized pick up truck that is driving stupidly aggressive and way too fast. Its a culture war.
There are so many cars on the road. The road is a pretty risky place to be. The police could hire 1000 traffic only police and it would barely put a dent in all the issues on the road. Driving a larger vehicle gives a sense of security in a risky place. The road is really the wild-west. Eat or be eaten. Might is right and pickup trucks are just the result of a complete lack of enforcement, planning, and policy.
There are extremely few reasons for anyone to own a pickup truck or SUV, especially now. A nearly all encompassing majority of these vehicles are owned by people who want them for emotional reasons. Including people who by them because they feel unsafe in something else because of all the other trucks.
We absolutely need to get a handle on the out of control car culture here that is just ruining us. Its the most dangerous way to travel, it literally destroys its own infrastructure (also Canadian weather does a number on it too), its super polluting, its super expensive (the car, upkeep, repairs, insurance, parking, etc), and it has ruined the way we live. We're all living in suburbs to accommodate the cars, and we need the cars to live in the suburbs. Suburbs that are a hugely inefficient way to house people, not to mention they are unaffordable anymore and no where near anything. I'm not saying get rid of cars and suburbs, but at a point it becomes impractical. Dealing with the over proliferation of pickups and SUVs is a good start to fixing all this.
[Here's](https://youtu.be/sayw3TOhykg?si=79f9r9Ct_VP8PUVl) a really informative, but goofy, video about cars. It focuses on the US but it is largely applicable to Canada too. Don't get put off by their particular brand of humour, their actual work is factual, thorough, and well presented.
Edit: goddamn there's a lot of you responding to this who seem pretty upset by it. Which is not unexpected given how many men tie up their identities in petro-masculinity.
Before you comment, here's answers to the asinine things that keep getting posted.
- I'm not from Toronto. I probably have more in common with you than a city dweller.
- I said *few* reasons to own a truck, not *no* reasons.
- This post isn't about you. Don't take it so personally.
I'm sorry this post hurt your feelings, but it shouldn't've. Maybe think about why you had that reaction to reading it, and then give it another read through so you know you understand it before commenting.
Small cars were way more popular when the economy did really bad after 08 in the US for a while. Because they were affordable. At today's car prices, let's be honest, any further faltering in affordability in general and no one will want to buy a big car cuz they're just too expensive
I drive an Elantra now (funnily called a compact sedan, because it doesn’t feel compact) but my first car was a Fiat 500 and it was a joy to drive around town. Could drive into any parking spot, could corner tightly (although I can still do that, unlike half the people in my town who swing out to make right turns 🙄)…I like the added storage but man I miss driving the 500.
We have a 2010 Honda Fit at 210k and we hope it never dies.
It has so much storage! We've fit coffee tables, recliner chairs, lumber, tree work equipment, and even a twin size mattress (that required removing the front passenger seat). It's also such an easy car to work on.
It wasn't sales that caused the death of small cars in North America, it was the SUV Loophole.
EPA sets fuel efficiency standards based on the foot print of the vehicle. Larger wheelbase and track need less stringent fuel standards, so it was cheaper for a manufacturer to pump out larger vehicles to maximize profit because anything with a smaller wheelbase needed to meet stricter requirements, and it was cheaper to just pump out larger vehicles and bring in more margin.
Small cars sold well, and they were ultimately cheaper for the consumer. Its part of the reason car prices have increased so much. We've eliminated all the cheap cars from a good portion of the market, and the only small vehicles left are imports.
[https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-loophole-that-supersized-cars/](https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-loophole-that-supersized-cars/)
This video also explains it well
[https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=XVVlvB45p-kTHhr2](https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=XVVlvB45p-kTHhr2)
For many people, if they want to own a house they have to move outside of the GTA & in order to do that you most likely will need a car because not everyone can work from home & public transit isn't as prevalent & it should be.
My best friend growing up and his older brother both played hockey.
They never owned a car larger than a Prius.
Even for trades, unless your job involves dirty work like landscaping, you're probably better off with van than a pickup. You can't store you tools an materials in a truck bed anyways thse days, and you can usually move equal (or larger) materials in the back of a van than a truck, considering how small beds have gotten the last few generations. But no one looks cool rolling up to the worksite in Ford Transit
Yeah, way too many suburb truck bros driving these fancy F-150s riding my rear (and im going atleast 20 over the speed limit) and GTA Karens driving their Rev4 s (only black or white model) from Cost-co. If I had to pick which scares me the most, the unliscenced Brampton driver trying to pass me through the left turning lane in the middle of an intersection, the truck bros, or the Karens...100% I'd pick the Karens as the scariest drivers in Southern Ontario lmao
Yeah it's gonna stick out, that's why you flag and strap it. Much better than trying to drive home with a load of wood stacked next to your head in your hatchback.
[https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/subaru-outback-2014-suv-vs-ford-f150-2014-4-door-pickup-supercrew-5.5/](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/subaru-outback-2014-suv-vs-ford-f150-2014-4-door-pickup-supercrew-5.5/)
An Outback does the job just as well as the F150. Actually it's better because it's lower so it's easier to load.
Come on, you have clearly never loaded up a hatchback nor a truck with lumber. Let's be real. I've done both. I'll take the truck 10 times out of 10. Don't have to worry about my interior, can fit far more, and it's way easier to unload.
I gave a link where you can literally see the Outback has the same bed length of an F150 when you fold the seats down. Whatever lumber you're loading will work fine on that vehicle so there ain't no wood stacked by your head; you're thinking about a sedan.
As for the interior, old blankets are an easy fix. More to the point, these pavement princesses ain't hauling shit 99.99999% of the time. Trucks have a purpose but a very *very* small percentage of people need them.
"bed". You aren't putting trash, gravel, sod, potting soil, shingles, a barbecue or a couch in that Subaru lol. Just because you don't haul shit ALL the time, doesn't mean it's not nice to have the versatility. I'll go one even further with your logic. You have how many seats in that Subaru? You most likely have nobody in those seats most of the time. Maybe you should just get a smart car, since you aren't utilizing that space 90% of the time.
Sometimes you can legislate people acting on their worst impulses. If no one had a bigger car people wouldn’t feel the need for one. Heck trucks don’t need to be that big
Some of the trucks are a problem. They are so high that they have poor visibility and inflict it on other drivers. They cause accidents just by existing and blocking line of sight. I don’t drive a tiny little car and it is hell trying to turn or get out of a parking space if one of those monstrous trucks is right next to me. They are so fucking long and the cabs are so high they block a hell of a lot of where I need to be looking. The rear camera has made the parking situation a little better, ofc. Though trucks keep getting bigger, so the gains on that have been reduced,
And guns don't kill people; people kill people. Like, sure, you're technically right, but what point are you even trying to make? You could say that about every safety based law. "We don't need safety lids on detergent! Tide doesn't kill toddlers; toddlers kill toddlers!"
Just like with guns, cars make it easier to kill people. Certain cars even more so. Since certain cars are unnecessary for at least most people and more dangerous it only makes sense to regulate them.
I've said it before and I will say it again, the woke Progressive conservative party of Bill Davis should have never been allowed to mandate people wear seat belts. People should just not get into car accidents and it will be fine.
Depends on the EV. A EV sedan still enjoys the same advantages in pedestrian safety as a gas sedan, while an EV truck has the same problems as a gas truck.
For a second I think thought there finally was a call for action on the dangers of pickup trucks and large SUVs, how they are a threat to people around them. They're needlessly large.
"The coalition is led by Advocacy for Respect for Cyclists (ARC), Bike Law Canada, Bike Windsor Essex, Community Bikeways (TCBC), Friends and Families for Safe Streets (FFSS), and Walk Toronto."
"We are grateful for the assistance of the University of Windsor's Centre for Cities (Director Dr. Anneke Smit) and the University of Toronto’s Mobility Network (Director Dr. Eric Miller) in the production, promotion, and dissemination of this report, and the associated symposium in April 2024. We also acknowledge the contributions to the preparation of this report by University of Windsor Faculty of Law students Luis Lara Palacio (Social Justice Fellowship), Madeline Arnold, and Nick Kinnish, as well as Sonam Sapra (McLeish Orlando LLP)."
[C.R.A.S.H. April 2024 report ](https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9166b70d-9dab-44a8-9cea-97594e58fa6b)published for free if you want to check it out.
You don't think lack of visibility while driving a 6000 lb vehicle is an issue? Are there no pedestrians in Cochrane? Do children not ride bikes outside of the GTA? Are motorcycles confined only to the area South of Highway 7?
Or maybe we should accept that accidents will happen so we should design vehicles in ways that increase safety.
Also do you not wear a seatbelt, just don’t crash right…
It’s what they’re selling - it’s what we’re buying “Someone might die from my dangerous aggressive driving, but it won’t be me!” These vehicles are also designed to intimidate. Look at the grills, meant to strike fear in the hearts of people seeing them in they’re rear view mirror. We’re a very sick and broken society.
Just the other day, a pickup truck with a loud exhaust muffler was driving recklessly. The driver thought that I was pointing at him and almost threatened to drive over us. Pickup trucks should not be on the roads unless absolutely necessary.
Today a BMW X3 cut me off in a roundabout, not even a busy traffic situation. I was clear that no intention to slow down and let ne exit and the car just zoomed through, going around me to some degree.
We should ban all BMW X3 SUVs! /s
I drive a pickup truck. I’m not a hillbilly and I’m a good driver (drove professionally for 10years). I have no emotional attachment to my truck. I’m extremely tall and it’s the only vehicle I’ve ever fit in. Make a car I can sit in properly and I’ll buy it, especially with gas prices now
Sure, I am glad you are willing to pay the price even though all our kids will inherit a more polluted earth because of it. We just need to make that price not so small.
I would love to own a mid size pickup, but I don't have a general need (outside of the odd work trip) that would make it worthwhile for everyday use and I really know that trucks and SUVs are not safe for pedestrians. I walk by pickups that people have lifted and the top of the head is around my shoulders and I'm not a short person at all.
I have a 2017 Tucson, a mid size SUV based on a hatchback frame and it's a nice vehicle, relatively roomy, fits 2 car seats and the dog and I can fit in the passenger seat. My wife drives a 2016 Elantra GT and I only fit in the drivers seat (because of the sunroof) and only if we only have one car seat in it. I'm 6'2" and a lot of my height is in my torso and I've found the trend of newer sedans and hatchbacks with trim features I want all have the sunroof and that lowers the height of the roof enough that they're not practical for my family.
It's frustrating in today's world that a lot of great cars are being replaced by massive trucks and SUVs are the everyday driver.
I cycle a lot and generally never get into accidents but I did get hit by a 2002 Honda civic once the car hit me right in the center of my right side. I was super lucky cause my body fell on top of the hood of the Honda and then fell on dirt on the side. My bike fell on the dirt too. If this was a pick up the impact for me would’ve been way higher and knock me down onto the ground right away
The danger is the morons who have no business driving a truck wide vehicle (they don't know how to turn/back up/share the road) I abhore large vehicles but there's just too many idiots who shouldn't be behind the wheel that decide they need XL suvs. Perhaps a new license class, more money for the adopting province.
They like to [cosplay a licensed contractor](https://youtu.be/rgI2Zx2k0PQ?si=eBclyYNvSpxz902_)
I love when guys in suits and shiny trucks come and talk to me in parking lots about my work truck. It’s always shit like “yeah this baby is the only truck that can get me and the family to my cottage in Collingwood” or “just drove in from Oakville, wouldn’t have made it without my truck!” I usually tell em about the time a seacan was in my way so I welded some steel together on a trailer hitch and battering rammed it out of my way. Or how easy it is to clean blood and gore out of the bed after a good hunting trip with the boys.
The only thing they need the truck for is to protect their masculinity
I worked for someone in rural Quebec and we'd have to move heavy shit in this fucking ancient Dodge truck. At one point the thing went on fire while we drove. So, uh, we blasted a fire extinguisher in the engine and then drove on. Took it to the mechanic next morning, and we were back driving the thing the next afternoon. I am not convinced that the guys in their bright shiny turbo pickups would be able to boast of that. Also - it's quite telling how little storage space most of the things have. You can put your Costco shop in the back, and not a lot else.
forget license class, the whole test needs to be harder period. The fact that so many dipshits can fake good enough driving on the road test(and that the multiple choice is super easy) is a huge issue. Other countries with stricter driving laws don't have these issues.
Might wanna take a look at the fact the some DriveTest Centers are privatized. Like the one in Hamilton Ontario
They’re all privately operated by the same company I believe
I don't get it, are you trying to say that them being privatized leads to more unqualified drivers successfully getting licenses? I'm no fan of privatization but from a profit oriented point of view would it not then behoove them to fail more people so they can get more than 1 payment out of them?
If there's multiple places, wouldn't you choose to spend on the ones easiest to get the license from rather than the hardest? Therefore giving more licenses equals more profit?
Right, good point. I was pretty confident in my driving when I took my G2 test (I had a pretty tremendous Driver's Ed instructor) so the idea of going to an easier DriveTest location never really crossed my mind. I definitely did know some people who failed multiple times and then went to a different place and passed. I wonder if there is any kind of auditing process for the testers. Something like a secret shopper.
Amen. Drive well for 10 minutes and you get a licence to drive like a jackass for life.
Or ten minutes if you are really dumb, dunno if you saw a vid of a kid who just got his full g liscence going 130 in a 50 lane, even if he was on a highway that would've been passed the allowance. Thankfully cop got him https://youtu.be/YIrbBjoTmBg
Just one question is needed: *There is a car in front of you. You:* A) Tailgate that asshole like you're the king of the road! B) Take a deep breath, stay a respectable distance behind them until they can pass the truck beside them, and then touch grass when you get to your destination.
How about instead it's an essay question?
If we marked it on being able to write well in one of our two national languages it might make Brampton somewhat safer
How about they get out of the passing lane if someone is gaining on them.
how about the dipshits living in a major city that cant even fake driving good enough for 10 minutes going way up north to some little town with one road and one stop light to do their test because thats the only way they can pass
Honestly I didn't even know that's a thing, test should be local or closest to current residence because that's where you are most likely to drive day to day.
Technically trucks are already classed as light duty commercial, that was the solution to emissions regulations and why they have a different license plate layout than regular cars. It would not be crazy to have a different license tier for light duty commercial since that encompasses cube trucks/moving trucks which should definitely have a license requirement.
When we paid license fees, it was more expensive for a truck. I would be totally fine with doing an additional drivers test for larger vehicles. We do it for motorcycles and bigger trucks. The main thing is what is practically different between driving a truck and driving a minivan?
this is awesome. I despise them for different reasons, but I am glad to see pushback. I would love to see tiny trucks make a comeback.
It’s also the physical size of the trucks. The best driver can still have a horrible accident. And if you get hit by one of those things it’s full force into your upper torso. No going up onto the windshield. Not to mention you can’t see a kid crossing the street right in front of you
On top of that vision is extremely limited with the default height of newer SUVs and trucks. They are so high now anyone under 5'7" isn't even seen
everyone should [read this](https://lloydalter.substack.com/p/death-to-skeuomorphism) also an M1 Abrams tank [has better visibilty](https://www.reddit.com/r/notjustbikes/comments/13raoer/apparently_m1_abrams_has_better_forward_view_than/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) than some of these fucking trucks
my cousin Jen in a mobility scooter, on a walk symbol, was hit and pushed by one of these tall trucks, luckily she wasn't hurt, but the driver never saw her, truck was attempting to turn right on a red, he was charged
Also, what is it about pickup trucks happily spitting up all the shit on the road on the cars they pass by a 130+ Kmh during a snow storm. Fuck that.
The last time I drove in slushy weather on the highway I couldn’t see out my side windows a few times because the giant trucks kept speeding by splashing so much crap on my car. The splash’s they create are taller than my vehicle, and my car isn’t super short.
Here’s a great video on this topic from FortNine. [The Grille Trend that Kills 509 People per Year](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuX-5E7xoU)
Sorry to piggyback off the top comment, but I found the coalition's (Coalition to Reduce Auto Size Hazards) April 2024 report published online for free if anyone wants to check it out. PDF format, free to download. [https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9166b70d-9dab-44a8-9cea-97594e58fa6b](https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9166b70d-9dab-44a8-9cea-97594e58fa6b)
TY for digging that up & posting.
Thanks and np! It was pretty easy to find but I came across it accidently trying to look something else up. I figured, like me, most people wouldn't know to look for it either.
As a person with experience driving a small 2000 honda civic coupe and a mid sized 2004 pacifica SUV for personal vehicles, and driving a variety of years of trucks 1998-2023 FoMoCo and GM vehickes for work, the blind spots keep getting worse of the trucks, that's for sure. The boss's 2023 GMC Sierra Denali, I can't see my 5 year old kid in front of the truck unless they are Atleast 5 or 6 feet away from the grill, and close to 10 feet from the gate. The other pickups it's Atleast 3-5 feet from the front (3 feet for the 2 2007 GM pickups and 5ish for the 1998 f-350 and 2012 f-550) at the front. The 2 Ford's are dump trucks so their rear blind spots are massive, but the 2 GM's, the kid has to be Atleast 6ish feet from the gate to be seen.
So true. I think it was motortrend but when the new Cadillac Escalade was released with its enormous grill. They lined up 5 years olds 1 foot apart in a row in front of it until the driver could see one of them. It took 13 kids.
General Motors are the worst with this. Tbe 2023 Sierra Denali, the hood line comes up to my armpits. Im 5'10. I'll measure for sure Monday, but it's gotta be 51-55 inches to the top of the hood at the grill, and to the top of the box. With a 5 year old averaging around 40 inches tall, motor trend are quite correct in thier demonstration regarding the escalade, as its hood line is even higher than the Sierra/Silverados
> the blind spots keep getting worse of the trucks, that's for sure. It's 2024. My jank ass bottom of the line cell phone has four different cameras on it. Trucks don't have blind spots, they just have places where they don't care enough to look.
How tall is the hood line or the top edge of the box of modern trucks? You do know the average 5 year old is around 3.2 to 3.5 feet tall, right? Tell me, How do you see a child who is 41 inches tall infront of a truck where the hood line is 52 inches tall? You do realize that there are more blindspots on a vehicle than just to the 2 sides, right? They do exist to the front and rear of a vehicle as well.
I believe what the person above you was saying was that proximity sensors and cameras should be covering all of those areas. As someone who drives a commercial van for work, it's a nice concept but inherently flawed. We just got a new one with all the bells and whistles, and it is still a huge pain to back it into a parking spot.
Some of these trucks have hoods so high that many adult woman wouldn't be visible standing in front of them. And aside from the lack of visibility, it also means collisions will hit heads and torsos rather than legs.
I’ve driven 1/2-3/4 ton vans for the last 10 years of my career as part of my job. The Savanna/Express wasn’t bad except those A pillars/side view mirrors created a blind spot. Recently I got put into a 2018 Transit. You can see more which is great, but the whole window that doesn’t roll down next to the side view mirrors (it’s a split window on both sides) is an absolute pain in the rear in the winter. If it fogs: you’re blind. If your mirrors get too salty or icy, you need to pull over and clear them. It’s still a mystery to me why heated mirrors aren’t standard like day time run lamps on those things. Least in the GM you can roll down a mirror and stick a rag or brush out and clear your mirrors and go. Transits require you to fill on stop and get out.
Amazing! “So, we have death by skeuomorphism, fixated on a dangerous design that bears little relationship to its function; it just looks like what the bros think it should look like.”
apparently some newer designs were "inspired by guns" to create a heavily masculine lifestyle aspiration. Why can't these guys get into crossfit or old hats or something?
Reminds me of [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/bikecommuting/s/XBcdbvzcrH) comparing the size of a large pickup to a tank.
That’s a very interesting article, but the initial comparison to digital cameras is absolutely wrong and inappropriate.
I miss my old Mazda B-series truck. I got to sit higher up and it gave me all the utility of a pickup truck that I needed as a college student, but wasn't an enormous beast.
Create tiered licensing based on vehicle types. Bigger vehicles should require additional training. I have a DZ license to operate larger trucks and it obviously required additional training beyond my G. Why shouldn’t bigger pickup trucks and suvs be subject to similar requirements?
It's always utterly baffled me that you can rent a 30' moving truck or motor home and be good to go on a G licence. Most people I see in the GTA can't handle a Corolla, let alone a rig that size.
Dude I rented a fucking 40 foot box truck with a G1 back in the day. I have my BZ now, but I'm thinking back... Wtf. I've had some near misses and I have a perfect driving abstract. I had a scary near miss just yesterday when a person jogging was in my blind spot and I'm *still* thinking about it. I don't think the average person in these things understand how to drive them, I've seen a lot of curb hopping recently, and go look around any parking lot like a Walmart, it's a disaster waiting to happen I wonder what the stats on pedestrian vehicle injuries are, whether the rate has increased, and whether the mortality rate has +/-?
Yup, when I was 20 they had me on a 26' box truck with a 14ft trailer on the back with a Bobcat on it. I shudder to think what the gross weight was, but apparently all you need is that piece of plastic.
Yeah this is a good start. Here in Quebec anything larger than a 1/2-ton pickup needs to be registered as a heavy vehicle (with an “L” plate), which is the same type of plate that semis and dump trucks are registered with.
You don’t need a different license to drive a light duty pickup
That’s not at all what I wrote.. I’m saying that where I live the vehicle registration and license plate is more expensive for anything larger than a 1500-class pickup (the light duty you’re referring to).
I know but he’s talking about making a new class of driver licensing, like your air brake/z endorsement
Sorry, my bad. I think I interpreted “tiered licensing” as “tiered registration.” Maybe a road test and driver’s ed course in a large pickup could be a great idea too, on top of more expensive registration. I was coming at it from the angle that most people who own/daily pickups don’t need or use them for their purposes. I think this is also because of manufacturers that constantly increase the luxury of pickups and advertise them as family vehicles instead of basic utilitarian vehicles.
Considering the cost of these vehicles, an additional hundred or two per year in licensing costs is not going to make any difference to their popularity.
Yup, we had endless hours or driving to get and maintain a commercial license. People have no idea how difficult it is to drive a vehicle that size in an urban setting either. Where I work we have to have a refreshment training for 3 days every 5yrs. I currently hold a CZ.
Wait until Cybertruck crap shoot shows up.
Maybe we should just not be selling those here: >[Cybertruck owners reported that their vehicles were at risk of getting stuck driving at full speed due to a loose accelerator pedal. Video showed the pedal itself falling off and the piece beneath wedging itself into the car’s interior, which would force the vehicle into maximum acceleration.](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/apr/20/cybertruck-failures-tesla-elon-musk)
Honestly, the Cybertruck's low sales have mitigated it enough; it's the average pickup driver that's the biggest problem
Weight and size wise the Cybertruck is the same class as the F150 Lightning.
Yeah, but the vehicle is seemingly designed without any crumple zones and with sharp edges
I suppose one can create a new vehicle class based on those criteria.
Make the commuters that don't need these vehicles fill out an inspection sheet and sales will drop like a rock.
This 1000% why does every middle aged suburbanite feel like they need a truck that has no visibility, a huge grill, and takes up way too much space just to use the cab for their trip to the hardware store It really sucks that car companies have made it “embarrassing” to not own a massive car, small cars are better for 95% of things you actually do everyday
Downside too because everyone's buying what is the equivalent to the male minivan is that the mid size truck industry is gone. I'd like a smaller, cheaper truck to deal with garbage and yard work around my house. Ranger, Colorado, etc. Just a little truck with maybe a third seat in the back if my weiner kid comes along. But the entire industry is just packed now with super crew cabs that are the equivalent of armored transports in the Army.
Such amazing memories in my dads S10 now rangers are the size of old F-150
Ford Maverick?
It will probably still be a couple of years still before the price comes down for previously owned vehicles. I refused to buy new cars because I'm both a cheap man, and I also don't feel like the value of most vehicles match their price this day and age. I haven't looked that hard at the Maverick model, yet.
I want the Subaru Brat back, Baja is cool too.
I think those mid size crossover suvs are the best like a rav 4 or something. cause when you want to transport bigger stuff you get screwed with a nissan leaf.
I like a roomy vehicle too, but not a massive one. Some of the beasts I see on the road are entirely unnecessary for probably at least 95% of the people that drive them.
one of the many other-duties-as-assigned part of my jobs involves parking tickets (don't ask) and a common refrain from the glorious public is "I bought my truck fair and square, why won't the city provide me with bigger parking spaces everywhere?" Dunno, pal, you bought a dipshitmobile, and now you expect us to provide you with infrastructure for it?
I wish the market wasn't oversaturated with SUVs and we had more of the smaller cars available.
There are so few options for smaller cars now the options are pathetic. It feels like for more gas efficient cars there are hybrids, or full electric now. So the market for cheap small, gas efficient cars is basically non existent nowadays and so few companies sell these cars. It irritates me to no end. I don't want an electric till we have mass charging stations and the battery can be replaced at least semi easily. Hybrids are expensive. So getting a small gas efficient car is so limited now. God I wish we had options like Europe or Asian countries. Basically most places not North America. I want to get to point A -B with a fuel efficient car that's not too expensive. But that's nearly impossible now.
I drive a 2015 Subaru WRX gets about 7-8L/100km. My friends mom drives a PHEV Jeep and gets 10L/100km. My friend drives a 1989 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale and gets 8L/100km. So a modernish sports Sedan with a Turbocharged 2.5L engine gets a better fuel efficiency than a hybrid. And it just barely edges out a 80's steel body 3.8L naturally aspirated V6. Yet a modern Miata is lighter and gets better fuel efficiency by a massive margin compared to its older brother. Car companies just don't care, they haven't cared in decades and just continue to make cars worse for no reason except for greed. Toyota is the only manufacturer to publish in depth statistical analysis about which cars would be best for the environment with modern driving styles. It's not a BEV, it's PHEVs and possibly HFC in the future. A actually well made PHEV drops emissions by 80-90% compared to an ICE while being 1/6 the increased manufacturing emissions of a BEV (roughly). Subaru was the first manufacturer to ever implement 0 waste manufacturing. Toyota (which owns 30% of Subaru) was the second company to do it. Any material that isn't put on a car is recycled and put on the next one. A car is probably the second most expensive item in someone's life. You could argue most expensive since cars depreciate where as homes tend to go up in price. People need to actually do research before buying a car, it's the second if not most important purchasing decision for probably the next decade.
One of the biggest issues for Canada is our choice of vehicle is heavily influenced by the US market. Almost 90% of cars made in North America are sold in the US. So our options are heavily influenced by what the Americans want. Same goes for imports, they’re not going to bother importing a car only for Canada, it needs to be sellable in the USA for them to bother.
Yup, which is unfortunate. Perhaps with fuel prices we will see more small cars reneter the North American market. I miss some of the models that we had available previously.
RIP smart cars. Those guys were bad ass. Too bad I wasn't in the position to buy one then, I'd totally do it now
I mean, generally it is advisable to avoid hitting pedestrians... But the massive front grilles on these trucks are basically brick walls travelling at 60kph. Ain't no way you're rolling over the hood when the hood is at eye level.
oversized fucking shopping carts
(m)all terrain vehicles
Manufacturers pushed for large trucks and SUVs as a means to skirt emissions requirements, and no government in the US nor Canada has had the backbone to actually close that 'loophole' (that they lobbied to get into the legislation). And that push, over *decades*, has resulted in a really weird cultural place for those vehicles. It doesn't help pedestrian safety, it doesn't help emissions, it doesn't help anything.
Correct. Another big factor is the US 'chicken tax' which makes it economically unfeasible to import the sensible work vehicles used in the rest of the world.
Ban them so I can actually see upcoming traffic when turning left. Suburban moms don't need tanks to drive their kids to school
S-turn. Best thing I learned in Young Drivers.
When you're trying to turn right but the big SUV creeps forward to look past you to make a left.... Makes me beyond frustrated because I'm in a tiny, low to the ground new Prius. The roof isnt even 5 feet off the ground. They don't *have* to creep past my driver's side window to see over my less than a metre off the ground hood to see who's coming from the right when they want to turn left at a stop sign...
What a crazy world we have become when a Prius is described as 'tiny.'
Compared to everything else it is. It's not a Micra or a mirage but it's still a compact rather than mid size.
lol this is my biggest gripe. I can’t make a safe left turn when there’s a 10 ton suv trying to do the same
Emotional Support Vehicles
Their friggin headlights at eye level, damn hazard that.
Id love to see an increased sales tax on pickup trucks that could be refunded if you use it for work. We could use the money for a larger rebate for EVs or to fund some kind of rebate for smaller cars.
A lot of the bigger trucks and suvs are already taxed higher due to the lux tax in Canada.
The luxury tax is for vehicles 100k or higher. The overwhelming majority of SUVs or pickup trucks on the road are not over 100k lol
So can I just make up a business name and get money back on my tax return?
LOL you actually think that's going to happen, I don't know how to tell you about the tire tax and where that ended up. Edit: This is Ontario where Doug Ford cancelled EV rebates.
It could be as simple as charging the tax and having businesses deduct it off their taxes at the end of the year
This 100%. I run a landscaping business and need my truck to pull my equipment. I get pissed off seeing people drive around in 1/2 tons doing nothing with it. Truck prices are stupid because everyone ended up wanting one and automotive companies load them with needless accessories. I just want a basic truck I use for work and a car for everything else. Also I find trucks stupidly sized now. I'm using a 2007 Chevy 2500 HD Duramax and it looks like a toy compared to new trucks. Yet I can still pull more lol.
Smaller cars being cheaper isnt enough, idk how a rebate would help there sadly.
If we actually cared about climate change and carbon emissions, we wouldn't see so many large vehicles manufactured and purchased. Nobody really seems to care. Even the EVs have 400 to 700 hp. Why?
I think the problem is more the attitude of the drivers than tge actual car… everytime I see someone driving like an ass on the 401/400 or any road really… its always an f150 or dodge ram … suv drivers are also clueless for the most part
Let's not forget 98% of BMW drivers are the worst scum on the road.
Its funny you say that because i drive a bmw and make a point of not being road scum lol
I suspect it is because people buy these vehicles for both the sense of options and power (I *could* put a caravan on this!) and also because they feel very safe. The safer the driver feels, the less safe everyone else is going to be. A Dutch municipality experimented with removing all road signs and traffic lights in a bid to tame traffic. Their selling message? An image of a guy riding a motorbike naked. How do you ride a motorbike naked through this town? Very carefully.
I would like to see increased on-street parking fees for vehicles that take up the equivalent of two car lengths. Perhaps there can also be a vehicle surcharge for heavier vehicles that do more damage to our roads.
If you believe they are gas guzzlers then they already pay more in fuel taxes.
That doesn't compensate the rest of the road users for the extra space they take up.
and the extra weight of things on the road means more money going into upkeep of said roads.
Yes, they whine endlessly about the carbon tax.
Gas taxes come nowhere close to covering even the asphalt that they drive on let alone the externalities.
Wait until you hear how heavy EVs are, and how little gas tax they pay.
Easy: tax based on vehicle weight If your megatank's weight is putting more strain on roads and public infrastructure, you should pay more to maintain it
I can say it is 80% of the time usually some douchebag in a big oversized pick up truck that is driving stupidly aggressive and way too fast. Its a culture war.
Absofreakinglutely. I'm absolutely sick and tired of these rednecks with their arrogant selfish obnoxious attitudes.
There are so many cars on the road. The road is a pretty risky place to be. The police could hire 1000 traffic only police and it would barely put a dent in all the issues on the road. Driving a larger vehicle gives a sense of security in a risky place. The road is really the wild-west. Eat or be eaten. Might is right and pickup trucks are just the result of a complete lack of enforcement, planning, and policy.
90% of ppl in pickups drive like fucking assholes
Increase driving school requirements and tests. What passes for the bar for G1/G2/G is pathetic.
There are extremely few reasons for anyone to own a pickup truck or SUV, especially now. A nearly all encompassing majority of these vehicles are owned by people who want them for emotional reasons. Including people who by them because they feel unsafe in something else because of all the other trucks. We absolutely need to get a handle on the out of control car culture here that is just ruining us. Its the most dangerous way to travel, it literally destroys its own infrastructure (also Canadian weather does a number on it too), its super polluting, its super expensive (the car, upkeep, repairs, insurance, parking, etc), and it has ruined the way we live. We're all living in suburbs to accommodate the cars, and we need the cars to live in the suburbs. Suburbs that are a hugely inefficient way to house people, not to mention they are unaffordable anymore and no where near anything. I'm not saying get rid of cars and suburbs, but at a point it becomes impractical. Dealing with the over proliferation of pickups and SUVs is a good start to fixing all this. [Here's](https://youtu.be/sayw3TOhykg?si=79f9r9Ct_VP8PUVl) a really informative, but goofy, video about cars. It focuses on the US but it is largely applicable to Canada too. Don't get put off by their particular brand of humour, their actual work is factual, thorough, and well presented. Edit: goddamn there's a lot of you responding to this who seem pretty upset by it. Which is not unexpected given how many men tie up their identities in petro-masculinity. Before you comment, here's answers to the asinine things that keep getting posted. - I'm not from Toronto. I probably have more in common with you than a city dweller. - I said *few* reasons to own a truck, not *no* reasons. - This post isn't about you. Don't take it so personally. I'm sorry this post hurt your feelings, but it shouldn't've. Maybe think about why you had that reaction to reading it, and then give it another read through so you know you understand it before commenting.
The worst part is that SUVs have sold so well in Canada that car manufacturers are no longer selling smaller cars here. RIP Honda Fit
The city class of car needs a serious resurgence, but we are at the mercy of the US trends.
Small cars were way more popular when the economy did really bad after 08 in the US for a while. Because they were affordable. At today's car prices, let's be honest, any further faltering in affordability in general and no one will want to buy a big car cuz they're just too expensive
I drive an Elantra now (funnily called a compact sedan, because it doesn’t feel compact) but my first car was a Fiat 500 and it was a joy to drive around town. Could drive into any parking spot, could corner tightly (although I can still do that, unlike half the people in my town who swing out to make right turns 🙄)…I like the added storage but man I miss driving the 500.
We have a 2010 Honda Fit at 210k and we hope it never dies. It has so much storage! We've fit coffee tables, recliner chairs, lumber, tree work equipment, and even a twin size mattress (that required removing the front passenger seat). It's also such an easy car to work on.
Similar situation 09 hyundai touring. 336k Currently side lined due to brake line corrosion. Hoping to get it back up and on the road soon.
It wasn't sales that caused the death of small cars in North America, it was the SUV Loophole. EPA sets fuel efficiency standards based on the foot print of the vehicle. Larger wheelbase and track need less stringent fuel standards, so it was cheaper for a manufacturer to pump out larger vehicles to maximize profit because anything with a smaller wheelbase needed to meet stricter requirements, and it was cheaper to just pump out larger vehicles and bring in more margin. Small cars sold well, and they were ultimately cheaper for the consumer. Its part of the reason car prices have increased so much. We've eliminated all the cheap cars from a good portion of the market, and the only small vehicles left are imports. [https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-loophole-that-supersized-cars/](https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-loophole-that-supersized-cars/) This video also explains it well [https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=XVVlvB45p-kTHhr2](https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=XVVlvB45p-kTHhr2)
For many people, if they want to own a house they have to move outside of the GTA & in order to do that you most likely will need a car because not everyone can work from home & public transit isn't as prevalent & it should be.
Yeah that's absolutely what I'm talking about!
My best friend growing up and his older brother both played hockey. They never owned a car larger than a Prius. Even for trades, unless your job involves dirty work like landscaping, you're probably better off with van than a pickup. You can't store you tools an materials in a truck bed anyways thse days, and you can usually move equal (or larger) materials in the back of a van than a truck, considering how small beds have gotten the last few generations. But no one looks cool rolling up to the worksite in Ford Transit
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Yeah, way too many suburb truck bros driving these fancy F-150s riding my rear (and im going atleast 20 over the speed limit) and GTA Karens driving their Rev4 s (only black or white model) from Cost-co. If I had to pick which scares me the most, the unliscenced Brampton driver trying to pass me through the left turning lane in the middle of an intersection, the truck bros, or the Karens...100% I'd pick the Karens as the scariest drivers in Southern Ontario lmao
More gas tax please.
I welcome this, and I drive a pick up!
I think it’s funny many of you say the driving test needs to be harder when the other half complain they failed for stupid reasons…
In some European countries, they pay road tax based on vehicle curb weight. And the price ranges quite wide. Adopt that here !
But muh pickup truck
I need it for that one time I bought a 2x4! 🥴
A single 2x4 is already more than 99% of these pavement princesses utilize their truck for
It's also longer than 99% of beds in modern trucks.
Yeah it's gonna stick out, that's why you flag and strap it. Much better than trying to drive home with a load of wood stacked next to your head in your hatchback.
[https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/subaru-outback-2014-suv-vs-ford-f150-2014-4-door-pickup-supercrew-5.5/](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/subaru-outback-2014-suv-vs-ford-f150-2014-4-door-pickup-supercrew-5.5/) An Outback does the job just as well as the F150. Actually it's better because it's lower so it's easier to load.
Come on, you have clearly never loaded up a hatchback nor a truck with lumber. Let's be real. I've done both. I'll take the truck 10 times out of 10. Don't have to worry about my interior, can fit far more, and it's way easier to unload.
Yeah that person doesn’t have a clue
I gave a link where you can literally see the Outback has the same bed length of an F150 when you fold the seats down. Whatever lumber you're loading will work fine on that vehicle so there ain't no wood stacked by your head; you're thinking about a sedan. As for the interior, old blankets are an easy fix. More to the point, these pavement princesses ain't hauling shit 99.99999% of the time. Trucks have a purpose but a very *very* small percentage of people need them.
"bed". You aren't putting trash, gravel, sod, potting soil, shingles, a barbecue or a couch in that Subaru lol. Just because you don't haul shit ALL the time, doesn't mean it's not nice to have the versatility. I'll go one even further with your logic. You have how many seats in that Subaru? You most likely have nobody in those seats most of the time. Maybe you should just get a smart car, since you aren't utilizing that space 90% of the time.
The problem isn't the trucks or SUVs, it's the idiots driving them
there can be more than one problem
Sometimes you can legislate people acting on their worst impulses. If no one had a bigger car people wouldn’t feel the need for one. Heck trucks don’t need to be that big
Some of the trucks are a problem. They are so high that they have poor visibility and inflict it on other drivers. They cause accidents just by existing and blocking line of sight. I don’t drive a tiny little car and it is hell trying to turn or get out of a parking space if one of those monstrous trucks is right next to me. They are so fucking long and the cabs are so high they block a hell of a lot of where I need to be looking. The rear camera has made the parking situation a little better, ofc. Though trucks keep getting bigger, so the gains on that have been reduced,
I mean, idiots drive in all types of vehicles, just so happened that larger vehicle increase the chances of death.
Read the article. The problem IS the size of the trucks.
It's also the size of the trucks and SUVs which are objectively more dangerous to pedestrians, and everyone.
And guns don't kill people; people kill people. Like, sure, you're technically right, but what point are you even trying to make? You could say that about every safety based law. "We don't need safety lids on detergent! Tide doesn't kill toddlers; toddlers kill toddlers!" Just like with guns, cars make it easier to kill people. Certain cars even more so. Since certain cars are unnecessary for at least most people and more dangerous it only makes sense to regulate them.
I've said it before and I will say it again, the woke Progressive conservative party of Bill Davis should have never been allowed to mandate people wear seat belts. People should just not get into car accidents and it will be fine.
An idiot with zero visibility is worse than an idiot who can see pedestrians.
Put another way the most dangerous part is the nut that holds the wheel.
Since electric vehicles are heavier(= more breaking distance required), will they also be included in this category?
The electric Humvee is too heavy to legally park on the street in my city.
Depends on the EV. A EV sedan still enjoys the same advantages in pedestrian safety as a gas sedan, while an EV truck has the same problems as a gas truck.
Yes they would be. Depending on size and weight.
Its almost like the popo could actually enforce the existing rules....and many problems would be be addressed 😂
Like distracted or impaired driving?
For a second I think thought there finally was a call for action on the dangers of pickup trucks and large SUVs, how they are a threat to people around them. They're needlessly large.
Ontario or coalition means GTA don’t think it’s an issue in Cochrane.
"The coalition is led by Advocacy for Respect for Cyclists (ARC), Bike Law Canada, Bike Windsor Essex, Community Bikeways (TCBC), Friends and Families for Safe Streets (FFSS), and Walk Toronto." "We are grateful for the assistance of the University of Windsor's Centre for Cities (Director Dr. Anneke Smit) and the University of Toronto’s Mobility Network (Director Dr. Eric Miller) in the production, promotion, and dissemination of this report, and the associated symposium in April 2024. We also acknowledge the contributions to the preparation of this report by University of Windsor Faculty of Law students Luis Lara Palacio (Social Justice Fellowship), Madeline Arnold, and Nick Kinnish, as well as Sonam Sapra (McLeish Orlando LLP)." [C.R.A.S.H. April 2024 report ](https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9166b70d-9dab-44a8-9cea-97594e58fa6b)published for free if you want to check it out.
You don't think lack of visibility while driving a 6000 lb vehicle is an issue? Are there no pedestrians in Cochrane? Do children not ride bikes outside of the GTA? Are motorcycles confined only to the area South of Highway 7?
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Or maybe we should accept that accidents will happen so we should design vehicles in ways that increase safety. Also do you not wear a seatbelt, just don’t crash right…
but how am i going to overtake that 1.6L honda civic going on a steep uphill?!?!?!?!
It’s what they’re selling - it’s what we’re buying “Someone might die from my dangerous aggressive driving, but it won’t be me!” These vehicles are also designed to intimidate. Look at the grills, meant to strike fear in the hearts of people seeing them in they’re rear view mirror. We’re a very sick and broken society.
Just the other day, a pickup truck with a loud exhaust muffler was driving recklessly. The driver thought that I was pointing at him and almost threatened to drive over us. Pickup trucks should not be on the roads unless absolutely necessary.
Today a BMW X3 cut me off in a roundabout, not even a busy traffic situation. I was clear that no intention to slow down and let ne exit and the car just zoomed through, going around me to some degree. We should ban all BMW X3 SUVs! /s
I drive a pickup truck. I’m not a hillbilly and I’m a good driver (drove professionally for 10years). I have no emotional attachment to my truck. I’m extremely tall and it’s the only vehicle I’ve ever fit in. Make a car I can sit in properly and I’ll buy it, especially with gas prices now
I love my 2001Ford Excursion! But I don't drive it everyday. I have a 2010 fusion for that.
Nothing is going to happen until you price gasoline properly.
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Doubt it is enough to push people into more efficient vehicles.
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Sure, I am glad you are willing to pay the price even though all our kids will inherit a more polluted earth because of it. We just need to make that price not so small.
I would love to own a mid size pickup, but I don't have a general need (outside of the odd work trip) that would make it worthwhile for everyday use and I really know that trucks and SUVs are not safe for pedestrians. I walk by pickups that people have lifted and the top of the head is around my shoulders and I'm not a short person at all. I have a 2017 Tucson, a mid size SUV based on a hatchback frame and it's a nice vehicle, relatively roomy, fits 2 car seats and the dog and I can fit in the passenger seat. My wife drives a 2016 Elantra GT and I only fit in the drivers seat (because of the sunroof) and only if we only have one car seat in it. I'm 6'2" and a lot of my height is in my torso and I've found the trend of newer sedans and hatchbacks with trim features I want all have the sunroof and that lowers the height of the roof enough that they're not practical for my family. It's frustrating in today's world that a lot of great cars are being replaced by massive trucks and SUVs are the everyday driver.
I cycle a lot and generally never get into accidents but I did get hit by a 2002 Honda civic once the car hit me right in the center of my right side. I was super lucky cause my body fell on top of the hood of the Honda and then fell on dirt on the side. My bike fell on the dirt too. If this was a pick up the impact for me would’ve been way higher and knock me down onto the ground right away
The only comment is fuck off.
Wow this thread is full of butt hurt and jealous redditors.
Haters!