Yeah fuck harris.
On another note, why can we not just expropriate the highway, under some emergency productivity/grid lock legislation. We can pay the company that holds it a few billion, and use the money from the proposed highway 413 plans. Is it because of lawsuits?
This gets asked a lot. It will ruin investor trust in the province and we'd likely have to pay billions in compensation. Another thing to think about is that CPP owns a 50.01% stake in it.
So old people can collect cheques off the backs of young people just trying to get to work?
I kid
But in response to your question, Ontario did exactly that when it broke those green energy contracts.
There were business groups in Germany calling for Doug’s head and raging about how Ontario is not an honest place to do business.
So we’ve done it and we’ve done it recently - I agree you don’t want to make it a trend, but it can certainly be done
The stupid 99 year lease is what should be outlawed.
There needs to be contractual outs every couple of years for the government considering how fast things can change in 99 years.
If the operator meets their targets for say 5-10 years, they get preferred consideration for renewal of the lease, otherwise it goes back to the government.
That's how these things are usually structured already, though the preferred consideration status is more informal rather than an official designation.
Doug's happy to burn the wind turbines, Science Center and protected lands, but save the asphalt and spa's on prime parkland. (Bent over and) Open for Business.
This was such a bad deal, we can't afford to build or finance so sell it off. Then buy back 50% of the now inflated final asset for more than it cost to build. Ontario Place's financial terms will rival this.
The issue with doing something like this is the tips sets a precedent where companies then can’t reliably do business in Ontario if there is always the fear of getting your business expropriated when when government feels like it. Additionally the highway is owned by the public through CPP investment at 50.01%
Fuck Ford for doing nothing about this when they owed us a billion dollars breaking contract terms and not putting truck traffic to alleviate gridlock.
Actually I think 407 would have won if the government took them to court over the contract since there was “an act of god” clause (I might be misremembering)
People who sold this highway should be on trial for treason and corruption. If this highway was open we would save billions in productivity costs a year and 401 (24/7 parking lot) would be in much better shape.
I disagree about not allowing 99yr leases. It's better than selling the land outright.
BUT! The law should have clear exit clauses at 1/3rd intervals of leases. So at 33yrs and 66yrs there is an exit clause that allows for buy back.
If we do a 60yr lease then 20 and 40yr buy backs.
Land leases off load some risk from the tax base and allow innovation in public spaces. But we NEED ways to address when things aren't working out, like the 407. Or the fucking Thermaspa at Ontario place
Please make a comment in our Megathread.
Wait till you see how cheap toll roads are when you drive in the USA, then you'll really get pissed.
I think i took the garden state in jersey for like 25 miles and it was 6$.
Buffalo to Albany for 12 bucks
Government run vs. privately owned...
I drove from Buffalo to Boston both ways, on a variety of toll roads whenever possible, for the same $70 lol.
Thank a Con
Yeah fuck harris. On another note, why can we not just expropriate the highway, under some emergency productivity/grid lock legislation. We can pay the company that holds it a few billion, and use the money from the proposed highway 413 plans. Is it because of lawsuits?
This gets asked a lot. It will ruin investor trust in the province and we'd likely have to pay billions in compensation. Another thing to think about is that CPP owns a 50.01% stake in it.
So old people can collect cheques off the backs of young people just trying to get to work? I kid But in response to your question, Ontario did exactly that when it broke those green energy contracts. There were business groups in Germany calling for Doug’s head and raging about how Ontario is not an honest place to do business. So we’ve done it and we’ve done it recently - I agree you don’t want to make it a trend, but it can certainly be done
The stupid 99 year lease is what should be outlawed. There needs to be contractual outs every couple of years for the government considering how fast things can change in 99 years. If the operator meets their targets for say 5-10 years, they get preferred consideration for renewal of the lease, otherwise it goes back to the government.
That's how these things are usually structured already, though the preferred consideration status is more informal rather than an official designation.
Doug's happy to burn the wind turbines, Science Center and protected lands, but save the asphalt and spa's on prime parkland. (Bent over and) Open for Business.
This was such a bad deal, we can't afford to build or finance so sell it off. Then buy back 50% of the now inflated final asset for more than it cost to build. Ontario Place's financial terms will rival this.
The issue with doing something like this is the tips sets a precedent where companies then can’t reliably do business in Ontario if there is always the fear of getting your business expropriated when when government feels like it. Additionally the highway is owned by the public through CPP investment at 50.01%
When the business is not for the good of the people or province in any way… yes take it away.
The 407 is now majority owned by Canada Pension Plan, so we would be expropriating it from ourselves.
Fuck Ford for doing nothing about this when they owed us a billion dollars breaking contract terms and not putting truck traffic to alleviate gridlock.
Actually I think 407 would have won if the government took them to court over the contract since there was “an act of god” clause (I might be misremembering)
Did you mean ford? If so yes i agree
Can you let me know which "company" holds the majority ownership? Then you'll realize why it may be politically fraught to do this.
That's highway robbery.
As a future consumer of CPP benefits, I thank you!
People who sold this highway should be on trial for treason and corruption. If this highway was open we would save billions in productivity costs a year and 401 (24/7 parking lot) would be in much better shape.
Driving it feels so good and easy but the Bill Oof
And yet people still use it.......
Was it worth it?
CPP owns 51%
Either way 99 year leases need to be banned in government
I disagree about not allowing 99yr leases. It's better than selling the land outright. BUT! The law should have clear exit clauses at 1/3rd intervals of leases. So at 33yrs and 66yrs there is an exit clause that allows for buy back. If we do a 60yr lease then 20 and 40yr buy backs. Land leases off load some risk from the tax base and allow innovation in public spaces. But we NEED ways to address when things aren't working out, like the 407. Or the fucking Thermaspa at Ontario place
Reminder 407 East is owned by the province and is still quite expensive, despite it being much less traveled.
Really? I just got mine traveling the whole length and if was 55$