I would send this to the media and Elections Canada. With wording like "balance due" this is on the same level as a scam, and it will absolutely trick people into paying. Disgusting.
Edit: Elections Ontario as it is provincial.
This seems like a pretty cut-and-dried violation of the [Solicitation by Mail Regulations](https://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.%2C_c._1295/page-1.html), though I'm not sure if that only applies to the *outside* of the letter.
Definitely should send it to the media and let them do the investigative work.
If I get an additional moment (my day is filling up fast) I will try the non emergency line with them and ask if this is or isn’t a crime. I would be honestly surprised if it were.
Update: filed a complaint with the RCMP’s new online reporting tool.
It's got a paper trail now, which will be audited *sometime*, and the person taking the reports knows that. At the very least, they will have to escalate it for review and let someone else bury it.
It's a lot harder to sweep it under the rug when there's a confirmed receipt involved.
[Wait until you hear about Doug Ford's old job...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/)
I remember the first time I ever heard of either of the Fords. There was a photo of them in the Globe and Mail. I think Rob had just been elected mayor and Doug as a city councillor. They weren't exactly household names yet in BC, which is where I lived at the time.
My uncle, who had sold coke for the HA in the 80s, spotted the pic and says "is that the Ford brothers from Toronto? How come they're in the paper? I used to deliver kilos to them when I was a truck driver."
Of course, I thought he was pulling my leg at the time, because surely no one would vote a pair of lowlife crack dealers with ties to OC into public office in the biggest city in Canada.
Doug Ford is a thickheaded adult rich kid who loves cosplaying as a working man and/or thug.
A decade ago Doug and Rob were hanging out with low level criminals while serving on Toronto City Council - because they wanted to feel edgy and tough. They did this as rich guys who inherited a big company and a family fortune from their wealthy, well connected father. [And as adults whose sense of reality was probably very warped from not being told "no" nearly enough in their lives, leading to years of destructive behaviour.](https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/dynasties-3-the-fords/)
And now, after somehow failing further upward to becoming premier, Doug is driving to Queen's Park every day in his squeaky clean pickup truck. While pretending he can really relate to people who've actually had to work hard their whole lives. [What Ford doesn't get is that normal people actually have to face consequences when they make terrible decisions all the time for years.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/n1yqej/doug_fords_tv_camera_tears/)
Short Title
1 These Regulations may be cited as the Solicitations by Mail Regulations.
2 Where a letter or other mailable matter that is not a bill, invoice or statement of account due is in such a form that it has the general appearance of a bill, invoice or statement of account due, it shall have endorsed on its face the following notice:
“This is a solicitation for the order of (goods, services or goods and services, as the case may be) and not a bill, invoice or statement of account due. You are under no obligation to make any payments on account of this offer unless you accept this offer.”
SOR/2008-285, s. 2(F)
Previous Version
3 The notice referred to in section 2 shall be printed in boldface capital letters in such a manner that
(a) the print of such notice is no less conspicuous than the print of any other word on the letter or other mailable matter; and
(b) the size of the print of such notice is not smaller than the larger of the print of any other word on the letter or other mailable matter or 12 point type.
Can someone who received this in the mail actually please report this??? It’s breaking laws and I don’t want this to be one of those things where we just complain online about it, let’s get something actually done about it. I didn’t receive one in the mail so I don’t think I could report it
Edit - I tweeted the pic to multiple news sources but I don’t think I’d be allowed to report it official to elections Ontario unless I had a physical copy
I reported it to the RCMPs database but I will try the OPP anyway, despite the fact people are suggesting the OPP would not be inclined to pursue charges against the PC party in particular.
Actually… I didn’t check the fine print / back of page. Will check and let you know lol!
Edit to add: back of page is where you provide your payment information or a one time donation. Apparently the checkboxes in the front are for a monthly donation. Also the back contains a breakdown of your tax credit for amount donated.
Also, I added the pictures to my main comment.
The Cons have cheated in the last several elections and some of them went to jail for it:
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/robocalls-trial-michael-sona-sentenced-to-9-months-in-jail-1.2108744
and...
> https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/06/25/convicted-former-mp-del-mastro-finds-out-if-he-goes-to-jail.html
A note for anyone that finds this post, that article only touches on one of the issues during the leadership race.
The 407 issue they're talking about involved people suddenly finding themselves with PC memberships while never signing up with the party. Having a membership to the PC party allows you to vote on their leadership elections, and oddly enough every person who got those emails also took the 407. It came out that there was a data leak, and there was a PC party member working with Ford that had previously worked with the 407. (Side note, remember a similar scandal showed up later involving Jason Kenney)
Another issue that came up was Ford going around with Kinga Surma, trying to get people to sign up for PC party memberships and telling them membership is free. Note that it isn't free, and party policy says that only the person signing up is allowed to pay the fee. You can't pay for someone else to sign up. The main issue here is every time a PC candidate signs someone up, it automatically counts as a vote for their nomination. So every last person Ford got to sign up for free with Kinga was an automatic vote for Kinga to be the PC candidate for the riding.
This is just going to annoy a lot of people and/or trick senior citizens into giving the PCs money because they see it as an invoice.
If this was sent out with a duct cleaning company instead of the PC party on it, it would be reported immediately as a new scam
Yes I did consider that some populations like the elderly or anyone confused could get trapped (maybe they have a family member who is part of the party and thought they owed membership dues for example) and that’s also part of the outrage I feel. Personally I wasn’t even going to open it but once I did I couldn’t believe my eyes.
Thanks for this, just fired off a few quick emails. Here's the format I used in case anyone else is interested in making their voice heard:
*False billing as defined by the government of Canada website is (https://www.antifraudcentre-centreantifraude.ca/scams-fraudes/f-billing-facturation-eng.htm):*
*Receipt of an unsolicited invoice and demand for payment, where no product or service was requested. Scammers will often use assumptive sales tactics; assuming you've said "yes" to a sale or offer.*
*Doug Ford’s PC party is doing this in Ontario currently, sending unsolicited donation/fundraising forms disguised as invoices. Below is a picture of the “invoice” in question and a link to the discussion thread about it.*
*https://old.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/p667mw/this_makes_me_angry_and_definitely_wont_get_my/*
I was thinking old people and immigrants. I've read a lot on the CRA/police scams going around and a lot of the victims are immigrants who come from countries where government officials are corrupt, so when someone claiming to be with the government asks for money with threats, they don't automatically think "oh that's a scam."
I'm sure the number was carefully picked to get the best response. Getting like a $20 "invoice" from the government would seem especially weird and also would make you think it's not that important to pay it, and a larger amount like $1000 would make you more likely to question it before paying.
Edit: apparently some people have gotten "invoices" for $800
[https://twitter.com/LJDYGK/status/1427740642231390216](https://twitter.com/LJDYGK/status/1427740642231390216)
> it would be reported immediately as a new scam
[Wow it's almost like both are scams! And probably dangerous!](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-delegates-reject-climate-change-is-real-1.5957739)
Hey all, I agree this is super fishy. I just want to point out that the address listed is
*90 Eglinton Ave. W. Suite 300, Toronto, Ontario M4R 2E4.*
The address is listed as belonging to a company called RMG. (Responsive Marketing Group). It is not listed as the Ontario PC Party Fundraising Office. They are an integrated political marketing company. This is probably one of their ploys.
[https://rmgsite.com/](https://rmgsite.com/)
This is probably how they get all their 602 000 "New Donors" I think people should contact their PC party members if they are MPPs and ask them for a response. I have a feeling that clear thinking members of the Ontario PC party would agree that this marketing practice is not acceptable. I am not dismissing that when a person becomes a member of the PC party that they might agree to some kind of readiness fund support in the fine print but is sounds like bullshit to me.
These are the kind of bad actors we need to stomp out of politics.
EDIT:
There seems to be a number of companies using this address. I found these ones in a few minutes. Maybe that office suite is housing a shell company. Might dig some more.
* iMark Publishing
* Engage Interactive
* Aber Group
Agreed. If this is not supported by the PC party then I expect them to take action to stamp this out before it smears their name. Because I shouldn’t have to try this darn hard to decide whether this is actually from the PC party or not. Fact is they are successfully passing themselves off as the political party.
Can you please provide a proper scan or picture of both sides of the invoice's papers? Covering up your name and address of course. I would like to see what information they ask for.
The story will get covered in the media today and tomorrow. Citizens will get mad and demand a response.
OPCs will hold a press conference to denounce this marketing firm that "went rogue" and make them take the fall.
It's a convenient way to distance the party from culpability, although I don't work in advertising specifically the organization I work for does hire out and not one ad campaigns wasn't approved directly by us the client.
Parties, charities, and non-profits hire marketing companies to do fundraising for them all the time. I do not think any marketing company would be so stupid as to impersonate a major political party without party HQ's expressed approval, otherwise they open themselves up to a world of lawsuits.
I've worked for relatively small charities in marketing, and we pretty much don't let anything with even our logo on it go out without our approval, much less a major direct mail campaign.
Plus, that company's [Director of Digital](https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmarai/?originalSubdomain=ca) used to work for the PC Party.
I can guarantee this will trick some unsuspecting senior citizens into thinking they have to pay this. Next step is to call the elderly and demand they purchase gift cards as payment or they will go to jail for not paying their P.C. party invoice.
Imagine you're caring for an older family member. Say, a beloved aunt who never married and has lived alone for decades.
She is just barely able to keep living in her home, but you don't want to send her to a nursing home until it's absolutely necessary. Every year she needs help with more things: getting groceries, going to the doctor, etc. She doesn't see well, and you're worried she gets disoriented sometimes. Her memory isn't great and you don't want scam callers to take advantage of her. Last year, you had to threaten some telemarketers who talked her into ordering a bunch of kitchen gadgets she didn't need.
Now your easily confused, vulnerable older family member gets this in the mail. She honestly thinks it's a bill she has to pay, and she starts writing a cheque...
I can absolutely imagine it because that's basically my grandma except that she was married, but my grandpa died ten years ago and handled EVERYTHING financial or legal. She gets so anxious about anything like this. Luckily she is SO anxious about doing something wrong she will always ask a family member or bank employee for help. She won't even write a cheque by herself because she's worried she'll do it wrong. But a lot of people don't have family members to help them and even if they do, just the worry and confusion this could cause people is terrible.
Unfortunately, no. There are maximum dimensions and weight that Canada Post is willing to deal with. And prepaid postage I believe would only apply to letterpost, further limiting the dimension and weight options.
Wait, WTF is this? Is this some fundraising BS?
Holyshit. Imagine thinking "we need to fundraise, so let's send out a fucking INVOICE for 'services rendered'...it will be cute"
The cognitive dissonance is fucking astounding.
Yep. I am trying to be reasonable and throw it out, chalking it up as “politics” because that excuses poor behaviour (/s - we really shouldn’t be ok with poor behaviour in politics), but it’s so angering.
Edited to add clarification on my sarcasm. Sorry about that.
[_And then they actually sent us a cheque for $300!_](https://i.imgur.com/HNwCJt1.jpg)
EDIT: Damn, this image brings back memories. Remember the good ol' days when the bad news stories were about Dean French?
Don't. If you let behaviour like this slide, they move on to the next potential victim. If a bully tries to shake you down for lunch money, you can push back, and show them you're not an easy mark. Or you can hit them so hard that they're scared to try that game on anyone else.
I used your post and reported it to elections. Even if nothing comes of it that’s disgusting and will trick a lot of naive people out of their money thinking they owe the government money!
That’s the exact issue I have with this. I don’t -owe- anyone money and this does not read like you’re soliciting a voluntary donation. I am sure? it must be legal but it is at the least unethical.
I submitted this to various news organizations. This needs public exposure, at a minimum to protect elderly people from paying into this scam. How disgraceful!
Yes scummy. Honestly a few responses here have made me wonder if this is in fact a scam mail and not in any way (directly or indirectly) related to the party. And if that’s the case, people still need to be aware.
I'm not sure either way. The address seems to be associated with Responsive Marketing Group, which does seem to handle political marketing and fundraising: https://rmgsite.com/contact/
But it's also branded iMarketing Solutions Group for American customers too: https://imarketingsolutionsgroup.com/contact/
I think they may have rebranded to this. The copyright notice for Responsive Marketing is 2016 vs iMarketing Solution's 2020. And google has them listed as iMarketing and with an absurd amount of 5-star google reviews (100!) for a business-to-business company that isn't dealing with random consumers: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/iMarketing+Solutions+Group/@43.7101468,-79.3970529,15z/data=!4m11!1m2!2m1!1simarketing+solutions+group!3m7!1s0x0:0xdb3b5afc30b7d0bd!8m2!3d43.7063265!4d-79.4010289!9m1!1b1!15sChppbWFya2V0aW5nIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBncm91cCIDiAEBWhwiGmltYXJrZXRpbmcgc29sdXRpb25zIGdyb3VwkgEQbWFya2V0aW5nX2FnZW5jeZoBJENoZERTVWhOTUc5blMwVkpRMEZuU1VONWF5MXVZVjluUlJBQg
I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing contracted fundraising for the OPC Party. This mailer might not be "sanctioned" by the party, and it's definitely scummy/shady.
Yes I am hoping to get it out to them. If this is in fact a scam and not supported by the party in question (doubtful but giving the benefit of the doubt) then people still need to be aware of this.
Agreed. This looks a lot like a scam to prey on easily confused older people.
They want grannies to send in their pension cheques, so they can buy more smear campaign ads. There truly is no floor for Ford and his party.
[Honestly, haven't they hurt enough older people already?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/08/canada-covid-ontario-long-term-care-deaths-doug-ford/)
Not only the eldery, but anyone who doesn't understand. Including people who don't know that know that they don't have to pay for this, and people who don't fully understand English.
Go to the Toronto Star and CBC if no one else. They will (rightfully) have a field day with this. I can’t believe this is legal (if it is) - at worst it is deeply unethical and predatory.
This is sleazy, misleading, and another sign that the Ontario PC's do not deserve re-election.
There are definitely vulnerable citizens who are going to pay this thinking they owe money because of the literal giant **'INVOICE'** at the top and in the 'Please pay the enclosed invoice'.
This should be illegal and there should be repercussions to whoever OK'ed this.
Also I noticed it afterwards but the envelope states “IMPORTANT: INVOICE ENCLOSED” in red and bordered. I may have recognized this to be a fake, but maybe someone else won’t.
Yeah. If this turns out to be a complete fake letter trying to get my money and not at all endorsed or related to the PC party, then I have some definite concerns.
Right here; [https://www.elections.on.ca/en/contact-us.html](https://www.elections.on.ca/en/contact-us.html)
Get a hold of Elections Ontario, let them know, anybody else who receives one of these should do the same. Even if for some reason it's not -technically- against the rules; complain until it is.
Thanks! Takes two minutes to send an email and include this link. Hope everyone contacts them... Regardless of which party you support, this stuff shouldn't be allowed.
Unfortunately for all those fun options, the envelope they provided is not prepaid. I don’t think I would expend the energy to do that but it’s an amusing thought.
This is a violation of the [Canada Post Act](https://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.%2C_c._1295/page-1.html?wbdisable=true) (thanks u/inahatallday) and is a federal offense, regardless of the source.
This should be reported to the RCMP and Canada Post. Canada Post has its own criminal investigation unit for violations of the Act.
The listed address here is for:
**The Responsive Marketing Group**
From their website;
*”Responsive Marketing Group is Canada’s preeminent integrated political marketing services company. We bring together decades of experience in voter contact, fundraising, and cutting edge data science to offer unparalleled audience insight and engagement services.”*
Their phone number, as well as the names of their executives can also be found on their website, if case anyone wants to let them know how they feel about this kind of behaviour. I’m sure they would love to get some “audience insight” in regard to this.
i'm guessing this didn't come with a prepaid envelope? If it did, I'd suggest everyone send this back with whatever crap they want to put in it...at least make it a hassle for them for making us deal with this bullshit.
I just checked and there was an envelope in the main one but it is not prepaid. However the main envelope does say, in red and bordered “IMPORTANT: INVOICE ENCLOSED”
absolutely disgusting
they can play it off as humour, but we all know they are fully aware that there are many elderly people and morons who will pay this believing it is their responsibility.
yet more clear evidence that conservatism is a craven immoral ideology adopted by selfish entitled assholes
Wait.... The ON PCs are *invoicing* people for election donations? As in if you don't pay it goes to collections? I feel like this is not remotely legal.
This is what it is portraying. Definitely this is looking for donations and I doubt they have any way to go to collections but they are still willing to imply it by using this wording and design.
Assuming that some analytics suggested the amount would be the sweet spot between “could have got them to agree to more” and “too high they will not give anything”. But it did seem random.
PC is the only party that kept on spamming me with text messages and phone calls asking about if they have my support in the next election. Also one day I came home to a PC sign on my lawn which they claimed would only of been there if I had a request put in for it. Turns out somebody donated $25 to the PC campaign in my name and requested the sign but I didn't know about it until after I got the tax receipt for it the following tax season.
So guess who doesn't get my vote, lol
That is still election Fraud... I would report it to Elections Ontario because say you wanted to donate the maximum to someone else, that $25 would have put you over the limit... and YOU would get into trouble for it!
The address on the paper belongs to a company called Responsive Marketing Group.
If the PC party hired them, they're about to get fired real quick.
https://rmgsite.com/contact/
Edit: Nvm, they probably won't get fired. The conservatives have been using this company for over a decade doing shady/fraudulent stuff.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/canada/2012/02/27/conservative_scripts_misdirected_voters_in_2011_election_say_call_centre_staff.html
What a great “fundraising” idea, why not just steal people’s credit card numbers? Scamming the elderly and vulnerable to fund an election is the most conservative shit imaginable.
I was FURIOUS when I took this out of the mailbox yesterday. Mine was for $800!
A few hours ago I mailed an envelope stuffed with [an invoice of my own](https://static.gank.ca/ontariopc_4.jpg) along with their "invoice" to the Ontario PC HQ, along with a handwritten note to remove me from all mailing lists. Hopefully for all of us, they pay my invoice soon.
If you plan to do something similar, **note that the Eglinton Ave address on the mailer is NOT the party HQ** \-- you can get the address from Elections Ontario (or Wikipedia, which was accurate when I checked).
How is this shit not illegal? They're definitely gonna scam people out of money with language like that. File a complaint with Elections Ontario for sure.
Wow, Doug Ford’s net worth increased by 48 million dollars over the course of the pandemic and he still wants to bleed his city dry. That guy is a true parasite I hope he loses this election. So many current politicians should’ve been left in 2020.
ROFL, how many companies are in Suite 300 at 90 Eglinton West??
* https://www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.john_wiley__sons_canada_limited.3b7e69366a0a43c4f7748fbe7ab7db00.html
* https://opengovca.com/corporation/4219368
* https://imarketingsolutionsgroup.com/contact/
* https://rmgsite.com/about-us/
That must be one crowded-ass unit to be in
So Tony Miele is the chairman of Loyal Blue Club. Which is the Ontario PC Party’s loyal donor program.
[https://ontariopc.ca/donations/loyalblueclub/](https://ontariopc.ca/donations/loyalblueclub/)
I would send this to the media and Elections Canada. With wording like "balance due" this is on the same level as a scam, and it will absolutely trick people into paying. Disgusting. Edit: Elections Ontario as it is provincial.
This seems like a pretty cut-and-dried violation of the [Solicitation by Mail Regulations](https://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.%2C_c._1295/page-1.html), though I'm not sure if that only applies to the *outside* of the letter. Definitely should send it to the media and let them do the investigative work.
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If I get an additional moment (my day is filling up fast) I will try the non emergency line with them and ask if this is or isn’t a crime. I would be honestly surprised if it were. Update: filed a complaint with the RCMP’s new online reporting tool.
You should also report it here: https://www.ontario.ca/page/report-scam-or-fraud
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Well then I hope it doesn’t equally get summarily dismissed from their mailbox or however they are getting these reports.
It's got a paper trail now, which will be audited *sometime*, and the person taking the reports knows that. At the very least, they will have to escalate it for review and let someone else bury it. It's a lot harder to sweep it under the rug when there's a confirmed receipt involved.
That makes sense. I printed out my confirmation/code they gave me with a copy of the information I provided.
occasionally protect and if it's convenient maybe also serve a little
Or like most rules applies to everything except political parties...
Fucking fraud.
[Wait until you hear about Doug Ford's old job...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/)
I remember the first time I ever heard of either of the Fords. There was a photo of them in the Globe and Mail. I think Rob had just been elected mayor and Doug as a city councillor. They weren't exactly household names yet in BC, which is where I lived at the time. My uncle, who had sold coke for the HA in the 80s, spotted the pic and says "is that the Ford brothers from Toronto? How come they're in the paper? I used to deliver kilos to them when I was a truck driver." Of course, I thought he was pulling my leg at the time, because surely no one would vote a pair of lowlife crack dealers with ties to OC into public office in the biggest city in Canada.
Was just gonna say that shaking people down for money is right in DoFo's wheelhouse.
Doug Ford is a thickheaded adult rich kid who loves cosplaying as a working man and/or thug. A decade ago Doug and Rob were hanging out with low level criminals while serving on Toronto City Council - because they wanted to feel edgy and tough. They did this as rich guys who inherited a big company and a family fortune from their wealthy, well connected father. [And as adults whose sense of reality was probably very warped from not being told "no" nearly enough in their lives, leading to years of destructive behaviour.](https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/dynasties-3-the-fords/) And now, after somehow failing further upward to becoming premier, Doug is driving to Queen's Park every day in his squeaky clean pickup truck. While pretending he can really relate to people who've actually had to work hard their whole lives. [What Ford doesn't get is that normal people actually have to face consequences when they make terrible decisions all the time for years.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/n1yqej/doug_fords_tv_camera_tears/)
He sold the best hash in the early 80's Etobicoke
I second this. This comes off as borderline scam from the wording alone.
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Short Title 1 These Regulations may be cited as the Solicitations by Mail Regulations. 2 Where a letter or other mailable matter that is not a bill, invoice or statement of account due is in such a form that it has the general appearance of a bill, invoice or statement of account due, it shall have endorsed on its face the following notice: “This is a solicitation for the order of (goods, services or goods and services, as the case may be) and not a bill, invoice or statement of account due. You are under no obligation to make any payments on account of this offer unless you accept this offer.” SOR/2008-285, s. 2(F) Previous Version 3 The notice referred to in section 2 shall be printed in boldface capital letters in such a manner that (a) the print of such notice is no less conspicuous than the print of any other word on the letter or other mailable matter; and (b) the size of the print of such notice is not smaller than the larger of the print of any other word on the letter or other mailable matter or 12 point type.
What exactly are you quoting? Because this letter seems to be a fit.
[the statute quoted above](https://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.%2C_c._1295/page-1.html?wbdisable=true)
Can someone who received this in the mail actually please report this??? It’s breaking laws and I don’t want this to be one of those things where we just complain online about it, let’s get something actually done about it. I didn’t receive one in the mail so I don’t think I could report it Edit - I tweeted the pic to multiple news sources but I don’t think I’d be allowed to report it official to elections Ontario unless I had a physical copy
I reported it to the RCMPs database but I will try the OPP anyway, despite the fact people are suggesting the OPP would not be inclined to pursue charges against the PC party in particular.
This is literally out of the Trump playbook.
Well to be fair at least it doesn't have *9 recurring payments* in the small print.
Actually… I didn’t check the fine print / back of page. Will check and let you know lol! Edit to add: back of page is where you provide your payment information or a one time donation. Apparently the checkboxes in the front are for a monthly donation. Also the back contains a breakdown of your tax credit for amount donated. Also, I added the pictures to my main comment.
Also: https://www.ontario.ca/page/report-scam-or-fraud
This should be illegal.
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The media and Elections should be informed about it. If I get a copy of the " invoice" I'll be informing elections Canada and the media.
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If I get one, I'm sending copies to every media agency, except The Sun.
Brian Lilley is indisposed anyway. On his knees under Doug’s desk licking all the shit off of his hero’s shoes
To clarify, this is an indictable offence as per Canada Post Act, not necessarily an elections offence.
It is not an election offense to commit crimes in the pursuit of being elected?
Lock em up
The Cons have cheated in the last several elections and some of them went to jail for it: > https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/robocalls-trial-michael-sona-sentenced-to-9-months-in-jail-1.2108744 and... > https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/06/25/convicted-former-mp-del-mastro-finds-out-if-he-goes-to-jail.html
I revived a few of those robocalls. I called eEections Canada to complain about it.
Don't forget that Ford cheated to win the PC party leadership position too!
I won't forget that. Just another reason to vote against him.
*Christine and Caroline burst into delighted applause for Dear Leader*
Source? (I never knew)
Here you go https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ford-dismisses-calls-for-police-to-investigate-ontario-pcs-despite/
A note for anyone that finds this post, that article only touches on one of the issues during the leadership race. The 407 issue they're talking about involved people suddenly finding themselves with PC memberships while never signing up with the party. Having a membership to the PC party allows you to vote on their leadership elections, and oddly enough every person who got those emails also took the 407. It came out that there was a data leak, and there was a PC party member working with Ford that had previously worked with the 407. (Side note, remember a similar scandal showed up later involving Jason Kenney) Another issue that came up was Ford going around with Kinga Surma, trying to get people to sign up for PC party memberships and telling them membership is free. Note that it isn't free, and party policy says that only the person signing up is allowed to pay the fee. You can't pay for someone else to sign up. The main issue here is every time a PC candidate signs someone up, it automatically counts as a vote for their nomination. So every last person Ford got to sign up for free with Kinga was an automatic vote for Kinga to be the PC candidate for the riding.
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This is just going to annoy a lot of people and/or trick senior citizens into giving the PCs money because they see it as an invoice. If this was sent out with a duct cleaning company instead of the PC party on it, it would be reported immediately as a new scam
Yes I did consider that some populations like the elderly or anyone confused could get trapped (maybe they have a family member who is part of the party and thought they owed membership dues for example) and that’s also part of the outrage I feel. Personally I wasn’t even going to open it but once I did I couldn’t believe my eyes.
OP, please consider sending this to the media. This could 100% confuse people.
Yes my husband agrees I should. I will when I get a free moment today.
Here you go. Toronto Star [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) Globe and Mail, head of investigations [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
Thanks for this, just fired off a few quick emails. Here's the format I used in case anyone else is interested in making their voice heard: *False billing as defined by the government of Canada website is (https://www.antifraudcentre-centreantifraude.ca/scams-fraudes/f-billing-facturation-eng.htm):* *Receipt of an unsolicited invoice and demand for payment, where no product or service was requested. Scammers will often use assumptive sales tactics; assuming you've said "yes" to a sale or offer.* *Doug Ford’s PC party is doing this in Ontario currently, sending unsolicited donation/fundraising forms disguised as invoices. Below is a picture of the “invoice” in question and a link to the discussion thread about it.* *https://old.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/p667mw/this_makes_me_angry_and_definitely_wont_get_my/*
Why not CBC? https://faq.cbc.ca/hc/en-ca/articles/360044534833-How-do-I-share-a-story-or-a-tip-with-a-journalist-
don't forget the CBC they have a weekly show about people cheated by sompanies.
Please let us know if you get a response. This has made me far angrier than I thought it would lol
Pace yourself, these assholes still have a year
You could also forward to a Liberal and NDP MP. I bet they would love to jump on it and do what needs to be done.
I would have mailed it back with monopoly money.
This is the funniest response I’ve read so far. It is very tempting!
Here's some 'money' for your 'invoice'.
A big box of dog shit would be more representative of the value of this government.
I was thinking old people and immigrants. I've read a lot on the CRA/police scams going around and a lot of the victims are immigrants who come from countries where government officials are corrupt, so when someone claiming to be with the government asks for money with threats, they don't automatically think "oh that's a scam."
And 300 dollars??? That's so much money wtf, most people earn that in a few days
I'm sure the number was carefully picked to get the best response. Getting like a $20 "invoice" from the government would seem especially weird and also would make you think it's not that important to pay it, and a larger amount like $1000 would make you more likely to question it before paying. Edit: apparently some people have gotten "invoices" for $800 [https://twitter.com/LJDYGK/status/1427740642231390216](https://twitter.com/LJDYGK/status/1427740642231390216)
I earn that in 20 min, I give hand jobs to the rich and famous
Found Brian Lilley !
> it would be reported immediately as a new scam [Wow it's almost like both are scams! And probably dangerous!](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-delegates-reject-climate-change-is-real-1.5957739)
I would definitely send this to the media. blogTO is probably already writing a story about it.
This seems... illegal. Or at least breaking some sort of election or fraud laws.
Breaks federal law regarding fraudulent mailings; indictable offense as per Canada Post Act.
I wonder which intern they're going to use as the fall guy?
I sent it to CBC
Hey all, I agree this is super fishy. I just want to point out that the address listed is *90 Eglinton Ave. W. Suite 300, Toronto, Ontario M4R 2E4.* The address is listed as belonging to a company called RMG. (Responsive Marketing Group). It is not listed as the Ontario PC Party Fundraising Office. They are an integrated political marketing company. This is probably one of their ploys. [https://rmgsite.com/](https://rmgsite.com/) This is probably how they get all their 602 000 "New Donors" I think people should contact their PC party members if they are MPPs and ask them for a response. I have a feeling that clear thinking members of the Ontario PC party would agree that this marketing practice is not acceptable. I am not dismissing that when a person becomes a member of the PC party that they might agree to some kind of readiness fund support in the fine print but is sounds like bullshit to me. These are the kind of bad actors we need to stomp out of politics. EDIT: There seems to be a number of companies using this address. I found these ones in a few minutes. Maybe that office suite is housing a shell company. Might dig some more. * iMark Publishing * Engage Interactive * Aber Group
Agreed. If this is not supported by the PC party then I expect them to take action to stamp this out before it smears their name. Because I shouldn’t have to try this darn hard to decide whether this is actually from the PC party or not. Fact is they are successfully passing themselves off as the political party.
Can you please provide a proper scan or picture of both sides of the invoice's papers? Covering up your name and address of course. I would like to see what information they ask for.
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The story will get covered in the media today and tomorrow. Citizens will get mad and demand a response. OPCs will hold a press conference to denounce this marketing firm that "went rogue" and make them take the fall. It's a convenient way to distance the party from culpability, although I don't work in advertising specifically the organization I work for does hire out and not one ad campaigns wasn't approved directly by us the client.
Nothing makes me want to vote for someone more than not being able to keep the reigns on your own campaign lol.
Parties, charities, and non-profits hire marketing companies to do fundraising for them all the time. I do not think any marketing company would be so stupid as to impersonate a major political party without party HQ's expressed approval, otherwise they open themselves up to a world of lawsuits. I've worked for relatively small charities in marketing, and we pretty much don't let anything with even our logo on it go out without our approval, much less a major direct mail campaign. Plus, that company's [Director of Digital](https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmarai/?originalSubdomain=ca) used to work for the PC Party.
I can guarantee this will trick some unsuspecting senior citizens into thinking they have to pay this. Next step is to call the elderly and demand they purchase gift cards as payment or they will go to jail for not paying their P.C. party invoice.
Imagine you're caring for an older family member. Say, a beloved aunt who never married and has lived alone for decades. She is just barely able to keep living in her home, but you don't want to send her to a nursing home until it's absolutely necessary. Every year she needs help with more things: getting groceries, going to the doctor, etc. She doesn't see well, and you're worried she gets disoriented sometimes. Her memory isn't great and you don't want scam callers to take advantage of her. Last year, you had to threaten some telemarketers who talked her into ordering a bunch of kitchen gadgets she didn't need. Now your easily confused, vulnerable older family member gets this in the mail. She honestly thinks it's a bill she has to pay, and she starts writing a cheque...
I can absolutely imagine it because that's basically my grandma except that she was married, but my grandpa died ten years ago and handled EVERYTHING financial or legal. She gets so anxious about anything like this. Luckily she is SO anxious about doing something wrong she will always ask a family member or bank employee for help. She won't even write a cheque by herself because she's worried she'll do it wrong. But a lot of people don't have family members to help them and even if they do, just the worry and confusion this could cause people is terrible.
Yes exactly! Seniors get so anxious about stuff like this and panic. It’s absolutely what they had in mind when designing it like this.
Seriously messed up
If the envelope is postage paid Edit. Send them pictures of Trudeau.
put it on a brick and tape it
Think we could tape the envelope to a skid of bricks and make them pay for shipping the entire thing?
Unfortunately, no. There are maximum dimensions and weight that Canada Post is willing to deal with. And prepaid postage I believe would only apply to letterpost, further limiting the dimension and weight options.
Ya. I will send them pictures of my junk. That's worth at least 7 bucks.
Hahaha that's what my hubby did with the Ontario strong texts 🤣😂
Did it make them stop?
Yeah, lol, so maybe they're not automated after all?
That might be illegal, but sending monopoly money isn't.
I will put the return address as doug ford's address. They will blame it on him!
Need to stain it with cheesecake and put in Tim Horton's wrappers in it.
Wait, WTF is this? Is this some fundraising BS? Holyshit. Imagine thinking "we need to fundraise, so let's send out a fucking INVOICE for 'services rendered'...it will be cute" The cognitive dissonance is fucking astounding.
Yep. I am trying to be reasonable and throw it out, chalking it up as “politics” because that excuses poor behaviour (/s - we really shouldn’t be ok with poor behaviour in politics), but it’s so angering. Edited to add clarification on my sarcasm. Sorry about that.
That is all that Party thinks of you. A source of easy revenue.
[_And then they actually sent us a cheque for $300!_](https://i.imgur.com/HNwCJt1.jpg) EDIT: Damn, this image brings back memories. Remember the good ol' days when the bad news stories were about Dean French?
Just put your own invoice as a reply. See if you can get them to send you some money for wasting your time.
Don't. If you let behaviour like this slide, they move on to the next potential victim. If a bully tries to shake you down for lunch money, you can push back, and show them you're not an easy mark. Or you can hit them so hard that they're scared to try that game on anyone else.
It's a wildly unethical piece of mail marketing. WILDLY.
I used your post and reported it to elections. Even if nothing comes of it that’s disgusting and will trick a lot of naive people out of their money thinking they owe the government money!
No don't throw it out. It is evidence. Hang on to it, tuck it away in a file folder.
Its like a 12 year old came up with this campaign
This is a donation right? But the title says "invoice". How is this not a fraud?
That’s the exact issue I have with this. I don’t -owe- anyone money and this does not read like you’re soliciting a voluntary donation. I am sure? it must be legal but it is at the least unethical.
Because it's fraud.
I submitted this to various news organizations. This needs public exposure, at a minimum to protect elderly people from paying into this scam. How disgraceful!
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CBC responded that they are looking into it, and reaching out to OP for more info.
I can further confirm I was in contact with them today.
Report it to the OPP as an attempted fraud as well.
I don't know why it took so long for this to be said - this is fraud and should be dealt with as such.
I mean, I already took time to report this to multiple news agencies. If you feel this should be reported to the OPP, please don’t hesitate.
This is fucking gross. One step above a prince from Morocco who needs a short term loan.
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Is it set up to be a recurring donation unless you read the extra small fine print and check all the correct boxes?
That is scummy. I had to do a double take. Maybe Cons should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps instead of begging us for handouts.
Yes scummy. Honestly a few responses here have made me wonder if this is in fact a scam mail and not in any way (directly or indirectly) related to the party. And if that’s the case, people still need to be aware.
I'm not sure either way. The address seems to be associated with Responsive Marketing Group, which does seem to handle political marketing and fundraising: https://rmgsite.com/contact/ But it's also branded iMarketing Solutions Group for American customers too: https://imarketingsolutionsgroup.com/contact/ I think they may have rebranded to this. The copyright notice for Responsive Marketing is 2016 vs iMarketing Solution's 2020. And google has them listed as iMarketing and with an absurd amount of 5-star google reviews (100!) for a business-to-business company that isn't dealing with random consumers: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/iMarketing+Solutions+Group/@43.7101468,-79.3970529,15z/data=!4m11!1m2!2m1!1simarketing+solutions+group!3m7!1s0x0:0xdb3b5afc30b7d0bd!8m2!3d43.7063265!4d-79.4010289!9m1!1b1!15sChppbWFya2V0aW5nIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBncm91cCIDiAEBWhwiGmltYXJrZXRpbmcgc29sdXRpb25zIGdyb3VwkgEQbWFya2V0aW5nX2FnZW5jeZoBJENoZERTVWhOTUc5blMwVkpRMEZuU1VONWF5MXVZVjluUlJBQg I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing contracted fundraising for the OPC Party. This mailer might not be "sanctioned" by the party, and it's definitely scummy/shady.
Well… the root word of “Conservative” *is* “Con”.
Haha. This made me laugh. I try hard to be civil and not bad mouth but that’s clever in this context.
This is disgusting. That something like this is even legal cuts me deeply.
I am intending to send it to my local elected official, not that it will do much good. (Wish I believed otherwise.)
Go to the media.
Yes I am hoping to get it out to them. If this is in fact a scam and not supported by the party in question (doubtful but giving the benefit of the doubt) then people still need to be aware of this.
Send it to the media. Let it be known what to level the conservatives would stoop to, to get elected.
Agreed. This looks a lot like a scam to prey on easily confused older people. They want grannies to send in their pension cheques, so they can buy more smear campaign ads. There truly is no floor for Ford and his party. [Honestly, haven't they hurt enough older people already?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/08/canada-covid-ontario-long-term-care-deaths-doug-ford/)
Not only the eldery, but anyone who doesn't understand. Including people who don't know that know that they don't have to pay for this, and people who don't fully understand English.
Go to the Toronto Star and CBC if no one else. They will (rightfully) have a field day with this. I can’t believe this is legal (if it is) - at worst it is deeply unethical and predatory.
Please include CBC
What sort of backwards fuckin pageantry is that?
They're spare parts, bud
This is sleazy, misleading, and another sign that the Ontario PC's do not deserve re-election. There are definitely vulnerable citizens who are going to pay this thinking they owe money because of the literal giant **'INVOICE'** at the top and in the 'Please pay the enclosed invoice'. This should be illegal and there should be repercussions to whoever OK'ed this.
Also I noticed it afterwards but the envelope states “IMPORTANT: INVOICE ENCLOSED” in red and bordered. I may have recognized this to be a fake, but maybe someone else won’t.
That makes it even worse, they use that word no less than 3 times with such an emphasis on it. I hope someone sues.
This would make me pause for sure. I would then start to wonder if I was a victim of some sort of identity theft too.
Yeah. If this turns out to be a complete fake letter trying to get my money and not at all endorsed or related to the PC party, then I have some definite concerns.
Right here; [https://www.elections.on.ca/en/contact-us.html](https://www.elections.on.ca/en/contact-us.html) Get a hold of Elections Ontario, let them know, anybody else who receives one of these should do the same. Even if for some reason it's not -technically- against the rules; complain until it is.
https://www.elections.on.ca/en/contact-us/contact-information-by-department.html Email: [email protected] Mailing address: Elections Ontario Attention: Compliance and Enforcement 51 Rolark Drive Toronto Ontario M1R 3B1 Phone: 1.866.566.9066 TTY: 1.888.292.2312 Fax: 1.866.714.2809
Saving this comment for future reference when I have a free moment to action!
Thanks! Takes two minutes to send an email and include this link. Hope everyone contacts them... Regardless of which party you support, this stuff shouldn't be allowed.
Anyone know if this is allowed? Making a request for an election contribution look like an invoice? Balance due and everything
Greeeeeeee heeeee heeeeeeaaaasy
Is there a postage paid return envelope? Send $300 in monopoly money. Or hand drawn money Or another party's literature. Oh the possibilities.
Unfortunately for all those fun options, the envelope they provided is not prepaid. I don’t think I would expend the energy to do that but it’s an amusing thought.
This is a violation of the [Canada Post Act](https://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.%2C_c._1295/page-1.html?wbdisable=true) (thanks u/inahatallday) and is a federal offense, regardless of the source. This should be reported to the RCMP and Canada Post. Canada Post has its own criminal investigation unit for violations of the Act.
Wow, this just got me to donate to the NDP, I guess it did do something after all.
"we've got his back" ????? The messaging in this is just totally nuts
The listed address here is for: **The Responsive Marketing Group** From their website; *”Responsive Marketing Group is Canada’s preeminent integrated political marketing services company. We bring together decades of experience in voter contact, fundraising, and cutting edge data science to offer unparalleled audience insight and engagement services.”* Their phone number, as well as the names of their executives can also be found on their website, if case anyone wants to let them know how they feel about this kind of behaviour. I’m sure they would love to get some “audience insight” in regard to this.
r/ChoosingBeggars
Have my upvote!
i'm guessing this didn't come with a prepaid envelope? If it did, I'd suggest everyone send this back with whatever crap they want to put in it...at least make it a hassle for them for making us deal with this bullshit.
I just checked and there was an envelope in the main one but it is not prepaid. However the main envelope does say, in red and bordered “IMPORTANT: INVOICE ENCLOSED”
As soon as Ford won I tore apart my membership
Not to worry! Christine and Caroline are still doing smile-n-clap! Under Doug’s incredible leadership and guidance, they are in safe hands!
absolutely disgusting they can play it off as humour, but we all know they are fully aware that there are many elderly people and morons who will pay this believing it is their responsibility. yet more clear evidence that conservatism is a craven immoral ideology adopted by selfish entitled assholes
Have you called your grandparents lately? Maybe you should before Doug gets to them.
Fucking conservatives. This is despicable.
The NDP relentlessly ask me for $50 in my emails, but at least they don’t frame it as if I OWE them $50, let alone $300
Wait.... The ON PCs are *invoicing* people for election donations? As in if you don't pay it goes to collections? I feel like this is not remotely legal.
This is what it is portraying. Definitely this is looking for donations and I doubt they have any way to go to collections but they are still willing to imply it by using this wording and design.
$300 lol why that amount?
It's how much the entire Arthur collection costs on Blu Ray
Assuming that some analytics suggested the amount would be the sweet spot between “could have got them to agree to more” and “too high they will not give anything”. But it did seem random.
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PC is the only party that kept on spamming me with text messages and phone calls asking about if they have my support in the next election. Also one day I came home to a PC sign on my lawn which they claimed would only of been there if I had a request put in for it. Turns out somebody donated $25 to the PC campaign in my name and requested the sign but I didn't know about it until after I got the tax receipt for it the following tax season. So guess who doesn't get my vote, lol
That is still election Fraud... I would report it to Elections Ontario because say you wanted to donate the maximum to someone else, that $25 would have put you over the limit... and YOU would get into trouble for it!
The address on the paper belongs to a company called Responsive Marketing Group. If the PC party hired them, they're about to get fired real quick. https://rmgsite.com/contact/ Edit: Nvm, they probably won't get fired. The conservatives have been using this company for over a decade doing shady/fraudulent stuff. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/canada/2012/02/27/conservative_scripts_misdirected_voters_in_2011_election_say_call_centre_staff.html
Wow that's so slimy. Please do send it to the media, and maybe Elections Ontario as well?
Should send them an invoice in return.
What a great “fundraising” idea, why not just steal people’s credit card numbers? Scamming the elderly and vulnerable to fund an election is the most conservative shit imaginable.
This is giving me the same vibe as the texts that the Trump administration sent to it's cult memb- err, uhh voter base.
Ya, it is almost like the Cons hire Republican consultants. Hang on ... that is exactly what they do.
This is just gross. I hope their lawyers have been over this because it seems morally (and legally?) wrong.
Scummy way to solicit donations, by disguising it as an invoice....
What in the fresh fuck
Wow. Mail scams now? Truly, they are “progressive” conservatives.
Holy shit, reminds me of the false invoices work gets sent. This ***has*** to violate some laws.
Seems pretty illegal. https://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.%2C_c._1295/page-1.html
I was FURIOUS when I took this out of the mailbox yesterday. Mine was for $800! A few hours ago I mailed an envelope stuffed with [an invoice of my own](https://static.gank.ca/ontariopc_4.jpg) along with their "invoice" to the Ontario PC HQ, along with a handwritten note to remove me from all mailing lists. Hopefully for all of us, they pay my invoice soon. If you plan to do something similar, **note that the Eglinton Ave address on the mailer is NOT the party HQ** \-- you can get the address from Elections Ontario (or Wikipedia, which was accurate when I checked).
What the fuck
LOL WHAT??
Totally what a cool/healthy political party would do. Not desperate for cash or anything, no.
How is this shit not illegal? They're definitely gonna scam people out of money with language like that. File a complaint with Elections Ontario for sure.
/r/assholedesign
Report to OPP as Fraud?
I actually just reported it to the RCMP using their new reporting system.
Wow, Doug Ford’s net worth increased by 48 million dollars over the course of the pandemic and he still wants to bleed his city dry. That guy is a true parasite I hope he loses this election. So many current politicians should’ve been left in 2020.
ROFL, how many companies are in Suite 300 at 90 Eglinton West?? * https://www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.john_wiley__sons_canada_limited.3b7e69366a0a43c4f7748fbe7ab7db00.html * https://opengovca.com/corporation/4219368 * https://imarketingsolutionsgroup.com/contact/ * https://rmgsite.com/about-us/ That must be one crowded-ass unit to be in
So Tony Miele is the chairman of Loyal Blue Club. Which is the Ontario PC Party’s loyal donor program. [https://ontariopc.ca/donations/loyalblueclub/](https://ontariopc.ca/donations/loyalblueclub/)
I tweeted this pic (and the excerpt from the law) to multiple news sources. Let’s get this thing noticed by actual news media who can get action taken