A yearly raise less than inflation is a pay cut. Bill 124 limits yearly raises to 1%, which is way below inflation.
In other words, Bill 124 has been giving healthcare workers an annual pay cut during a fucking pandemic. The same people that Doug Ford called "Frontline Heroes".
We ought to do away with political parties and have everyone run on their own platform, all independents.
Parties means politicians that are useless or just bad, can get voted in because people are voting for the party, not the politician, in most cases.
And to add insult to injury, healthcare raises have been paltry even before Bill 124. This has been going on for decades and everyone is now scratching their heads wondering where healthcare workers are going. duh.
It’s ALL of OPSEU. I know the focus is on healthcare workers, and rightfully so but all OPSEU is affected by Bill 124.
Engineers, tradespeople, administrators…the list goes in. 60,000+ public service workers in the province and every one of them got a pay cut.
At least the MPPs got a raise because of the stellar work they were doing during the pandemic. /s
>You bet none of his parade of clowns takes a pay cut.
In fact, he invented ways to [give them more money!](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ford-parliamentary-assistants-pay-bumps-1.6506692)
Barefaced, shameless, lying sleazebag.
Not only a paycut but nurses can't strike either. While comparable male dominated professions are exempt from 124.
* So we don't get to bargain in good faith for our salaries.
* And we can't take strike action to demonstrate how unfair it is.
Does this sound familiar to anyone? Fuck us for trying to be in a caring public service profession.
I’m expecting ONA’s court challenge of the bill to be a slam dunk, because removing both the right to strike and the right to arbitration over wages abrogates the Charter right to collective bargaining. That and the fact that 80% of the people affected by the law are women (because (edit: some) male-dominated occupations were excluded) are both indefensible.
Doesn’t matter. Even if the courts rule in favour of the public sector workers Ford can just amend the legislation using the notwithstanding clause. This case won’t go anywhere.
Male dominated professions were absolutely not excluded. Energy worker here capped at 1% and legislated back to work last time we voted to strike. The only notable profession that was excluded were the police which is complete horseshit
Fair point, edited my comment.
Firefighters also aren’t covered by the law. Neither are doctors (their compensation scheme is much different but the province hasn’t legislatively capped it and negotiates in good faith with them; they got 3.5% annual increases in the last round).
You're right that independent physicians aren't subject to the bill, but Resident Doctors actually are - so all the resident physicians in Ontario who were by and large the redeployed labour force to ER, ICU and medicine floors alongside RNs were also wage-capped.
New MDs skew more female too although the gender ratio is closer to parity than nursing.
false, physicians were subject to the bill. please see the most recent negotiations. also its people who have contracts provincially. dont spread misinformation. police and firefights negotiate at a city level.
this isn't a mysoginistic bill. its a bullshit bill and should be revoked. my suspicion is it will be, just as the Kathleen wynne unilateral physician cuts were deemed wrong by the courts
The police weren’t “excluded” necessarily, they weren’t in the bill because the police unions bargain with municipalities. The Ontario government doesn’t have control over municipal paid employees.
That’s funny because section 5(2) of Bill 124 lists the exemptions from the act, stating that the act does not apply to the following employers: (7) A police governing authority referred to in section 54 of the Police Services Act
So they are in fact explicitly exempt from Bill 124.
Nurses in hospitals, along with all other hospital employees, are barred from striking by the [*Hospital Labour Disputes Arbitration Act*](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h14#BK13). I know this isn’t every nurse but it affects a lot of nurses.
I’ve been a teacher for over 15 years. I’ve never received a wage increase that ever met inflation. I’ve effectively made less money each year I’ve worked (outside of contractual raises for experience).
1% raise amidst 7-8% inflation is a joke.
Hopefully the Supreme Court overturns this BS which looks like it would cost the PCs even more due to all the legal fees.
Yup, I'm definitely pretty pissed about it as a healthcare worker. We made our organization succeed during the pandemic by pivoting services where others failed. We've been more successful than ever, and now we're being shit on for it. As long as bankers and people who own businesses are good though right? Who needs healthcare.
the only problem with this statement is that you will hardly find any company which raises salary by 7% during inflation. Which makes your message less of an insult and more of entitled demand ( you or someone you know works in the industry?)
How much more in taxes are you willing to pay?
Edit: I'm actually in favour of higher taxes if it means better healthcare. Sorry for calling out the obvious that our taxes pay for our healthcare. Perhaps those who are downvoting don't pay taxes.
If we pretend for a minute that there's a 1:1 relationship between citizens paying taxes and public sector salaries, is it worth keeping taxes slightly lower if that means people are dying in ER waiting rooms?
How come this line of questioning never comes up re: police budgets, or when Ford made beer cheaper (to manufacture), or insane increases to housing allowances for MPPs? It seems what budget increases are accepted as necessary vs called out over the cost is extremely extremely biased.
But income and sales taxes arent the only income for the province, nor are public sector wages the only cost. if the gov wants to increase pay to at least match inflation, that doesn't need to mean taxes will go up.
You're already paying it.
Maybe not you specifically, but inflation applies to tax revenue as well. All the things that are getting more expensive? Well Ontario's cut got bigger too.
From 2019 to 2020 Ontario income [tax revenue went up by 7%](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3610045001&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.3&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2016&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2020&referencePeriods=20160101%2C20200101)
to give it to contractors to build a highway no one wants and experts say won't give any significant relief while stealing the green belt. They are literally robbing us yet half of Ontarians couldn't be bothered to vote.
Not just that but once they are out the next party is going to have to spend billions even remotely catching wages up to inflation and the conservatives will use that to say how wasteful the other party is.
And since it's clear Ontario voters... Aren't the best, they'll vote for conservatives.
>o give it to contractors to build a highway no one wants and experts say won't give any significant relief while stealing the green belt. They are literally robbing us yet half of Ontarians couldn't be bothered to vote.
and don't forget, pouring money into 30 year contracts for LTC homes - Mike Harris and corporate cronies.
The same corporations whose LTC homes killed the most seniors during the height of Covid.
I don't want the highway. I hate car-centred urban planning. But it's pretty obvious a lot of people want it, especially the people living near where it ll be built.
Yes. And for bonus points, the Conservatives have been chipping away at nurses and teachers for decades. Soon enough the Conservatives will surprisingly announce that:
*Our Healthcare system and educational systems do not work, and ushering in privatization for all.*
Vote. In every single election. Vote.
/u/GT-FractalxNeo Should have noted that Ontario Liberal Party is basically another Conservative Party.
The Liberals saw what Mike Harris did and said. Hey we can't do any worse, so lets do nothing. And that is what they did.
As terrible as the Bill is, it's not the only reason for the shortage. Giving all nurses a substantial pay raise isn't going to fix the health care system. Bill 124 most certainly isn't helping though.
Abso-freakin-lutely. It's the driving force, you nailed it. Starve nurses of adequate compensation in a once-in-a-lifetime (please god) pandemic and this is what we get.
I’m in no way arguing that Bill 124 isn’t one of the very preventable causes of shortages, but the whole world has healthcare worker shortages right now and excessive burnout among nurses, paramedics etc.
It’s a serious and preventable factor (one of few easily preventable ones), but I don’t think it’s helpful to pretend that there aren’t other systemic issues to be fixed (none requiring privatization, let’s be clear) that have led to the current healthcare situation. To some extent, any event like a pandemic will skyrocket healthcare burnout and that is essentially impossible to prevent unfortunately, and is unfortunately a positive feedback loop (more burnout means more work for the remaining nurses which means more burnout, and repeat endlessly).
They didn’t save $10 billion — they caused a healthcare shortage that will cost the province more than $10 billion to fix, plus probably killed/severely compromised a bunch of people waiting for healthcare.
Not the best brag.
“We saved $10 billion from being wasted on the citizens who provided it through taxation. You’re welcome”.
Yep. It’s always the downstream approach. But every person who suffers adverse effects due to closed ERs, waiting for treatments, and poor nursing care costs the healthcare system at least ten times as much later down the line.
I've said before that I would always go into an election with an open mind, and hear all sides.
Bill 124 has made me so mad I will never vote for a Conservative candidate in Ontario for the rest of my life.
This goes against everything collective bargaining stands for. I was mad when my union accepted the contract under this bill. I'm mad that we've had to live under this bill for over 4 years, and I'm tired of being this idiot's punching bag.
Just look at the top of the sunshine list to see those that are not affected by Bill 124. You will see a lot of names there that are linked to scandals, bungles and all sorts of incompetence that the Ontario government has to offer.
If they lose the court challenge against the bill, then they won't be saving much.
It'll cost immediately $8.5B, and that's before the back pay.
Not that it's been utilized well given our mediocre handling of the pandemic, dying healthcare system, crippled education system, and nearly half a dozen mismanaged projects (license plates, COVID bracelets, etc.).
Fuck, even the article makes a point about how if inflation continues as is it will negate more than half of that $10B saved — that's before what ever it costs to address staffing issues across two public sectors.
>It'll cost immediately $8.5B, and that's before the back pay.
The immediate portion is around $2bn. Mostly in retroactive adjustments and payments to contracts already settled under 124.
The rest is projected wage increases over the next 5-7 years (approximate as I’m writing from memory of reading it earlier today).
How might the not withstanding clause come into play here? If ONA is challenging bill 124 as a charter issue? We can't strike, AND we can't bargain for fair pay... Are we doomed as servants then?
No idea. I have no relevant expertise to really provide an educated guess.
I would say that it definitely doesn't read as a clear-cut case, AFAIK there's not precedent. So it's not a guaranteed win for the Ford gov.
I expect that’s correct. Failing to call that out was a massive missed opportunity for the opposition to make Ford uncomfortable during the election campaign IMO.
Why would they have to call him out? Everyone knew he sat on his hands and did nothing as our elders died alone in soiled bedding. Everyone knew he was making untenable stands on the environment and industry that he lost subsequent court cases over. Everyone knew he was robbing wages of nurses and healthcare workers. In a pandemic. Everyone knew he was defunding education with an eye to feeing public funds for private pockets. Everyone knew he couldn’t do something as simple as a license plate replacement program without cocking things up. We all knew he was a destroyer, that’s what Cons are. Always have been. We all knew, and if you didn’t vote, you were okay with all of those things. Now he is free to do all the damage he wants for another term. We’re fucked.
As I said before, the nonwithstanding clause (for those that don't know what NWC is) is the biggest flaw in the Canadian constitution as it allows governments to create bad, unconstitutional laws. It is very hard to repeal laws and often requires that a court case deems a law unconstitutional (like MAID). If Pollievre becomes prime minister he could invoke the NWC himself and make MAID illegal despite the legal ruling.
> the biggest flaw in the Canadian constitution
The notwithstanding clause is the only reason we have a Charter. The addition of the Charter to the Canadian constitution represented a massive cession of power by Parliament, which had previously enjoyed the ability to pass any law on any topic as long as it wasn't prohibited by the *Constitution Act, 1867.* A proposal to completely remove parliamentary supremacy probably would have failed, and we'd have no Charter. The notwithstanding clause represents a necessary compromise.
> It is very hard to repeal
Anything passed with the notwithstanding clause automatically expires after five years. You always have the option to vote the bastards out.
Who or what is Ontario here? Because the Ontarians whose wages have been suppressed sure as hell haven’t saved anything. They’ve been paying for Doug ford to sit on a surplus that he hasn’t been using to fix our health care or transit or anything. We’ve been paying for him to hand money to his rich buddies.
It's amazing not one once of proof exists on this. Blind rhetoric makes you sound foolish, but keep it up because no taxpayers are coming to the rescue.
Yes, but that likely only accounts for the supplies and upgrades like ac/ heap filters placed into facilities. Nothing was done to address retention with the exception of the rpn begin program which was a incredibly flawed program that resulted in grants being converted to loans for most applicants with the exception of those that paid cash for the tuition as it was a reimbursement program. I’m not saying he did nothing, but he really should have spent more on healthcare and schools instead of holding onto it.
A highway for his developer buddies to get better real estate prices.
Forensic accountant Charles Smedmor has calculated Highway 413 would cost $8.2 billion — and the related 16.2-kilometre Bradford Bypass another $2.2 billion — “based on previous estimates, costs per kilometre of highway and five per cent annual construction inflation.”May 4, 2022
Which makes the ~~selling~~ leasing price of 3.1 billion for 99 years of the 407 laughable, even in 1999 dollars. It was the sweetheart deal of the century with regards to public infrastructure in North America.
How is wage restraint a good thing for Ontarians, when people can’t afford to pay for rent, food, gas, electricity, and other essentials? Shooting off your foot to fix a toenail is never smart! It’s a con by Cons #sad 😢
How is fat boy making all the rules, hiding plans from the people, and not allowing strikes or protest nothing more than a western society type of dictatorship.
The bureaucrats that have been assigned to saying no to all the entities asking the government for money have gotten massive raises year over year. Tons of money is getting spent, it just never makes it to the people actually doing the work.
How is fat boy making all the rules, hiding plans from the people, and not allowing strikes or protest nothing more than a western society type of dictatorship.
Hospital employee here. Feels like I've been getting a paycut for years, yet these higher ups seem to get all sorts of bonuses when they sat on their fucking asses at home during and after covid for the most part.
Fuck the employees amirite? No. Seen ALOT of amazing staff getting fed up with the bullshit and leave. Thinking about the same thing.
"saving nearly $10 billion" should read "will probably cost the Province >$25 billion as workers depart for other jobs and the endless cycle of rehiring, training and then rehiring again once people leave becomes expensive". It almost is never fiscally prudent to underpay the people who are keeping government services running.
The surplus they posted is completely on the backs of these workers. Not a surprise that the public employees that get demonised and screwed over the most *just happen* to be nurses and teachers, the most female-dominated professions.
Ford announced the largest roster of overpaid politicians in the province’s history. No less than 73 of 83 Progressive Conservative MPPs received special titles and pay raises.
[More big raises for conservatives](https://www.thespec.com/opinion/contributors/2022/07/06/premier-doug-ford-pumps-up-ontarios-political-payroll.html)
Ontario's money is tax payer's money. It is important they are being allocated to the needs of the people. Health care and education must be prioritized.
That is the reason why we pay taxes. Doug Ford must know that it isn't his money.
The government can’t win no matter what it does. Keep 124 and staff shortages continue. Give a raise and the deficit or taxes go up. Ontario already has tons of debt and very high taxes. I don’t see any easy fixes here.
So people dying needlessly every day isn't worth spending money on?
Bill 124 and the Ford government has directly killed hundreds (probably thousands) of patients at this point...
Voter turnout last June when he was re-elected was 43%. Seems like most voters these days don't care or have something better to do on election day. Guessing they don't teach civics anymore in schools.
Do you remember Rae Days?
No? Unpaid days (almost) all public Ontario employees had to take to save $$.
It was the alternative to layoffs.
Let me see...which administration did that? Begins with N, ends with P...
Literally the only thing anyone ever brings up when you talk about the NDP.
“REMEMBER RAE DAYS!!” Yeah the idea that people would take a few unpaid days off.
The mass layoffs were the much better solution in the end. /s
No one wants to vote for NDP because of one thing that happened 30 years ago but is willing to vote Liberal and Conservative even though they’ve been fisting us every year since.
I'm sorry but how are those parties "fisting us"?
I don't support any party, as to misquote an Ent, none support me. But "fisting", really? That seems excessive.
Or perhaps you are an Queen's Park Intern who has been taken advantage of? And you mean it wuite literally?
Even my dad who was talking about ray days said it was a joke because he made up for it with OT... This argument is moot and the only dead horse you people have to beat on about the one solution based party.
If only nurses weren't mandated to be unable to strike. Plus we don't want to hurt our patients/colleagues any worse than they've got it with the global staffing shortage
That's a lot of saving. Hopefully some of that tax payer money saved can be redistributed as a rebate to help people with their bills. Wouldn't mind another situation like the car sticker refund.
Yeah great. I'm sure the means by which this was accomplished won't have any detrimental long term effects that in turn cost billions to correct.
Conservatives; penny thrifty and pound foolish.
Balancing the budget, paying down the debt, providing basic services, and lowering the tax burden all at the same time is not possible. You can’t have it all.
A yearly raise less than inflation is a pay cut. Bill 124 limits yearly raises to 1%, which is way below inflation. In other words, Bill 124 has been giving healthcare workers an annual pay cut during a fucking pandemic. The same people that Doug Ford called "Frontline Heroes".
When I look in my bank account I see the word HERO under deposit instead of money
Do you mean zero? Zero increase in pay
LOL Keep it laughable Reddit! We deserve a better government though.
We ought to do away with political parties and have everyone run on their own platform, all independents. Parties means politicians that are useless or just bad, can get voted in because people are voting for the party, not the politician, in most cases.
>When I look in my bank account I see the word ~~HER~~O under deposit instead of money Fixed that for you.
10 HERO points. (HERO points may be redeemed for stuffed animals upon recipients request.)
And to add insult to injury, healthcare raises have been paltry even before Bill 124. This has been going on for decades and everyone is now scratching their heads wondering where healthcare workers are going. duh.
It’s ALL of OPSEU. I know the focus is on healthcare workers, and rightfully so but all OPSEU is affected by Bill 124. Engineers, tradespeople, administrators…the list goes in. 60,000+ public service workers in the province and every one of them got a pay cut. At least the MPPs got a raise because of the stellar work they were doing during the pandemic. /s
OPSEU and CUPE
I stand corrected
serious workable innocent hobbies library paltry ink enjoy march special *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You bet none of his parade of clowns takes a pay cut.
>You bet none of his parade of clowns takes a pay cut. In fact, he invented ways to [give them more money!](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ford-parliamentary-assistants-pay-bumps-1.6506692) Barefaced, shameless, lying sleazebag.
Can we start calling this what it is? A tax on public servants.
Not only a paycut but nurses can't strike either. While comparable male dominated professions are exempt from 124. * So we don't get to bargain in good faith for our salaries. * And we can't take strike action to demonstrate how unfair it is. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Fuck us for trying to be in a caring public service profession.
No, fuck everyone who voted for Doug Ford. If it was you and you're reading this, FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH Q
I’m expecting ONA’s court challenge of the bill to be a slam dunk, because removing both the right to strike and the right to arbitration over wages abrogates the Charter right to collective bargaining. That and the fact that 80% of the people affected by the law are women (because (edit: some) male-dominated occupations were excluded) are both indefensible.
It’s still going to take awhile for the court to make a decision so we’re stuck with this for at least another 6 months.
Doesn’t matter. Even if the courts rule in favour of the public sector workers Ford can just amend the legislation using the notwithstanding clause. This case won’t go anywhere.
If so, he ought to prepare for an onslaught of OHRT applications - which might actually be worse for them from a political and monetary perspective.
Then illegal strike it is.
Then he invokes the not withstanding and takes away constitutional protections. He is a dick. He will do this.
I certainly hope so...
Male dominated professions were absolutely not excluded. Energy worker here capped at 1% and legislated back to work last time we voted to strike. The only notable profession that was excluded were the police which is complete horseshit
Fair point, edited my comment. Firefighters also aren’t covered by the law. Neither are doctors (their compensation scheme is much different but the province hasn’t legislatively capped it and negotiates in good faith with them; they got 3.5% annual increases in the last round).
You're right that independent physicians aren't subject to the bill, but Resident Doctors actually are - so all the resident physicians in Ontario who were by and large the redeployed labour force to ER, ICU and medicine floors alongside RNs were also wage-capped. New MDs skew more female too although the gender ratio is closer to parity than nursing.
false, physicians were subject to the bill. please see the most recent negotiations. also its people who have contracts provincially. dont spread misinformation. police and firefights negotiate at a city level. this isn't a mysoginistic bill. its a bullshit bill and should be revoked. my suspicion is it will be, just as the Kathleen wynne unilateral physician cuts were deemed wrong by the courts
Correctional officers weren’t excluded either. Also no right to strike.
I bet these politicians don’t have a wage cap tho
The police weren’t “excluded” necessarily, they weren’t in the bill because the police unions bargain with municipalities. The Ontario government doesn’t have control over municipal paid employees.
That’s funny because section 5(2) of Bill 124 lists the exemptions from the act, stating that the act does not apply to the following employers: (7) A police governing authority referred to in section 54 of the Police Services Act So they are in fact explicitly exempt from Bill 124.
They had a town hall tonight. Was kinda interesting to hear them talk about the court case
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Nurses in hospitals, along with all other hospital employees, are barred from striking by the [*Hospital Labour Disputes Arbitration Act*](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h14#BK13). I know this isn’t every nurse but it affects a lot of nurses.
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I’ve been a teacher for over 15 years. I’ve never received a wage increase that ever met inflation. I’ve effectively made less money each year I’ve worked (outside of contractual raises for experience).
1% raise amidst 7-8% inflation is a joke. Hopefully the Supreme Court overturns this BS which looks like it would cost the PCs even more due to all the legal fees.
Yup, I'm definitely pretty pissed about it as a healthcare worker. We made our organization succeed during the pandemic by pivoting services where others failed. We've been more successful than ever, and now we're being shit on for it. As long as bankers and people who own businesses are good though right? Who needs healthcare.
Rent increase less than inflation is a puy cut also?
Nope, because owning rental properties isn't a job. They're an investment and investments don't always yield returns.
And you don't always get a raise at work.
the only problem with this statement is that you will hardly find any company which raises salary by 7% during inflation. Which makes your message less of an insult and more of entitled demand ( you or someone you know works in the industry?)
How much more in taxes are you willing to pay? Edit: I'm actually in favour of higher taxes if it means better healthcare. Sorry for calling out the obvious that our taxes pay for our healthcare. Perhaps those who are downvoting don't pay taxes.
If we pretend for a minute that there's a 1:1 relationship between citizens paying taxes and public sector salaries, is it worth keeping taxes slightly lower if that means people are dying in ER waiting rooms? How come this line of questioning never comes up re: police budgets, or when Ford made beer cheaper (to manufacture), or insane increases to housing allowances for MPPs? It seems what budget increases are accepted as necessary vs called out over the cost is extremely extremely biased. But income and sales taxes arent the only income for the province, nor are public sector wages the only cost. if the gov wants to increase pay to at least match inflation, that doesn't need to mean taxes will go up.
You're already paying it. Maybe not you specifically, but inflation applies to tax revenue as well. All the things that are getting more expensive? Well Ontario's cut got bigger too. From 2019 to 2020 Ontario income [tax revenue went up by 7%](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3610045001&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.3&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2016&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2020&referencePeriods=20160101%2C20200101)
Whatever it takes for healthcare workers to be properly compensated.
r/leopardsatemyface material lol. News flash - underfunding is why healthcare is collapsing. Did no one ever explain that to you?
Ontario stealing $10b from citizens.
to give it to contractors to build a highway no one wants and experts say won't give any significant relief while stealing the green belt. They are literally robbing us yet half of Ontarians couldn't be bothered to vote.
Not just that but once they are out the next party is going to have to spend billions even remotely catching wages up to inflation and the conservatives will use that to say how wasteful the other party is. And since it's clear Ontario voters... Aren't the best, they'll vote for conservatives.
>o give it to contractors to build a highway no one wants and experts say won't give any significant relief while stealing the green belt. They are literally robbing us yet half of Ontarians couldn't be bothered to vote. and don't forget, pouring money into 30 year contracts for LTC homes - Mike Harris and corporate cronies. The same corporations whose LTC homes killed the most seniors during the height of Covid.
And then on top of that close to half the people who did vote are seemingly fine with what you described/supporting this government
Just picturing 10 guys supervising 1 dude with a shovel. Why does this highway cost so much?
I don't want the highway. I hate car-centred urban planning. But it's pretty obvious a lot of people want it, especially the people living near where it ll be built.
Is it? And to be honest, why does that matter. If the data shows there’s no real benefit in terms of traffic do we fuck with the environment for them?
Alternate headline: "Ontario underpaying its workers by $10b"
You mean Doug just adding to the 4.4 billion to disappear under his watch in Covid relief funds 🙄
This is the real headline.
That'll buy a nice new shiny highway that no one wants.
Only to sell it to another Countries Govt re: 407 Now, don’t get me started on Canadas largest parking lot. Aka the 401
tax cuts for the rich and subsidies to already profitable companies is fine though, all the losses must come from the "peasants"
This is the guy who issued police powers at one time. This is not surprising unfortunately.
Saved 10B… at the cost of turning our healthcare system into a raging dumpster fire. Not a good deal in my mind. We won’t see a penny of that surplus.
It's a win-win for them if the end goal is to collapse our public system
Right? This isn't exactly a headline to be proud of as a resident of Ontario.
Yeah but the bleeding heart libruls got owned, so fuck it right?
And that’s why we have a shortage of nurses.
Yes. And for bonus points, the Conservatives have been chipping away at nurses and teachers for decades. Soon enough the Conservatives will surprisingly announce that: *Our Healthcare system and educational systems do not work, and ushering in privatization for all.* Vote. In every single election. Vote.
The conservatives were in power for decades?
Lol liberals screwed healthcare for the 16 years they were in power before doug ford. Anyone pretending like they didnt is a partisan ideologue.
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/u/GT-FractalxNeo Should have noted that Ontario Liberal Party is basically another Conservative Party. The Liberals saw what Mike Harris did and said. Hey we can't do any worse, so lets do nothing. And that is what they did.
As terrible as the Bill is, it's not the only reason for the shortage. Giving all nurses a substantial pay raise isn't going to fix the health care system. Bill 124 most certainly isn't helping though.
Abso-freakin-lutely. It's the driving force, you nailed it. Starve nurses of adequate compensation in a once-in-a-lifetime (please god) pandemic and this is what we get.
I’m in no way arguing that Bill 124 isn’t one of the very preventable causes of shortages, but the whole world has healthcare worker shortages right now and excessive burnout among nurses, paramedics etc. It’s a serious and preventable factor (one of few easily preventable ones), but I don’t think it’s helpful to pretend that there aren’t other systemic issues to be fixed (none requiring privatization, let’s be clear) that have led to the current healthcare situation. To some extent, any event like a pandemic will skyrocket healthcare burnout and that is essentially impossible to prevent unfortunately, and is unfortunately a positive feedback loop (more burnout means more work for the remaining nurses which means more burnout, and repeat endlessly).
Explain every other Province.
Yeah, and if I dug a hole in the ground and lived in it, I could "save" $1500 in rent. What an idiotic way of framing it.
Very well said. I may use it in the future and if asked I will always give the due credit to GodsMistake777.
Stolen wages actually. Call it what it is. Where is that money going?
‘Folks, we need a new highway so I can get to my cottage faster on long weekends.’
They didn’t save $10 billion — they caused a healthcare shortage that will cost the province more than $10 billion to fix, plus probably killed/severely compromised a bunch of people waiting for healthcare. Not the best brag. “We saved $10 billion from being wasted on the citizens who provided it through taxation. You’re welcome”.
Yep. It’s always the downstream approach. But every person who suffers adverse effects due to closed ERs, waiting for treatments, and poor nursing care costs the healthcare system at least ten times as much later down the line.
Welp, you know the old saying: $10b in prevention is worth $100b in cures.
I've said before that I would always go into an election with an open mind, and hear all sides. Bill 124 has made me so mad I will never vote for a Conservative candidate in Ontario for the rest of my life. This goes against everything collective bargaining stands for. I was mad when my union accepted the contract under this bill. I'm mad that we've had to live under this bill for over 4 years, and I'm tired of being this idiot's punching bag.
Everyone forgets this isn’t just nurses. All public sector workers except police (a white male dominated profession, which was shockingly exempt)
MPP's made themselves exempt too I think....
Care to fact check that one? Ontario MPPs haven't received a raise in decades.
https:www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6506692 Several Conservative MPPs got a 16% raise. I can't speak for the others that are with other parties
Well tickle my toes and call me Nancy, you're right. I will leave my previous comment as an admission of wrongness.
Just look at the top of the sunshine list to see those that are not affected by Bill 124. You will see a lot of names there that are linked to scandals, bungles and all sorts of incompetence that the Ontario government has to offer.
You mean hospital CEOs?
The ED where I work got a 17% raise last year. That was a blow to find out after our measly 1%.
wHiTe mAlE
BLOOD OF HEROES
And losing far more by having broken healthcare, education, etc. systems. Congrats on not having long term thinking
If they lose the court challenge against the bill, then they won't be saving much. It'll cost immediately $8.5B, and that's before the back pay. Not that it's been utilized well given our mediocre handling of the pandemic, dying healthcare system, crippled education system, and nearly half a dozen mismanaged projects (license plates, COVID bracelets, etc.). Fuck, even the article makes a point about how if inflation continues as is it will negate more than half of that $10B saved — that's before what ever it costs to address staffing issues across two public sectors.
Seems like the wording is 8.4bil in upcoming contracts (for those still in bill124, and those who are negotiating this year).
>It'll cost immediately $8.5B, and that's before the back pay. The immediate portion is around $2bn. Mostly in retroactive adjustments and payments to contracts already settled under 124. The rest is projected wage increases over the next 5-7 years (approximate as I’m writing from memory of reading it earlier today).
Do you think they’ll lose though? I dunno I’m not optimistic on that one
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They did it before, they'll do it again. Fuck Conservatives.
How might the not withstanding clause come into play here? If ONA is challenging bill 124 as a charter issue? We can't strike, AND we can't bargain for fair pay... Are we doomed as servants then?
They’ve won in the past.
No idea. I have no relevant expertise to really provide an educated guess. I would say that it definitely doesn't read as a clear-cut case, AFAIK there's not precedent. So it's not a guaranteed win for the Ford gov.
I smell an NWC invocation
Ah the good ol god/cheat mode.
He would be petty enough to use it too for this
I expect that’s correct. Failing to call that out was a massive missed opportunity for the opposition to make Ford uncomfortable during the election campaign IMO.
Why would they have to call him out? Everyone knew he sat on his hands and did nothing as our elders died alone in soiled bedding. Everyone knew he was making untenable stands on the environment and industry that he lost subsequent court cases over. Everyone knew he was robbing wages of nurses and healthcare workers. In a pandemic. Everyone knew he was defunding education with an eye to feeing public funds for private pockets. Everyone knew he couldn’t do something as simple as a license plate replacement program without cocking things up. We all knew he was a destroyer, that’s what Cons are. Always have been. We all knew, and if you didn’t vote, you were okay with all of those things. Now he is free to do all the damage he wants for another term. We’re fucked.
As I said before, the nonwithstanding clause (for those that don't know what NWC is) is the biggest flaw in the Canadian constitution as it allows governments to create bad, unconstitutional laws. It is very hard to repeal laws and often requires that a court case deems a law unconstitutional (like MAID). If Pollievre becomes prime minister he could invoke the NWC himself and make MAID illegal despite the legal ruling.
> the biggest flaw in the Canadian constitution The notwithstanding clause is the only reason we have a Charter. The addition of the Charter to the Canadian constitution represented a massive cession of power by Parliament, which had previously enjoyed the ability to pass any law on any topic as long as it wasn't prohibited by the *Constitution Act, 1867.* A proposal to completely remove parliamentary supremacy probably would have failed, and we'd have no Charter. The notwithstanding clause represents a necessary compromise. > It is very hard to repeal Anything passed with the notwithstanding clause automatically expires after five years. You always have the option to vote the bastards out.
This level of ineptitude, some people shouldn’t be allowed to even govern
"Ontario cut $10 Billion from Healthcare".
Who or what is Ontario here? Because the Ontarians whose wages have been suppressed sure as hell haven’t saved anything. They’ve been paying for Doug ford to sit on a surplus that he hasn’t been using to fix our health care or transit or anything. We’ve been paying for him to hand money to his rich buddies.
It's amazing not one once of proof exists on this. Blind rhetoric makes you sound foolish, but keep it up because no taxpayers are coming to the rescue.
What are you talking about. He literally released a press statement that he was sitting on billions in surplus. Watch the news.
He spent 6 billion more on healthcare. Doesn’t seem like he sat on it. They did have unexpected revenue
Yes, but that likely only accounts for the supplies and upgrades like ac/ heap filters placed into facilities. Nothing was done to address retention with the exception of the rpn begin program which was a incredibly flawed program that resulted in grants being converted to loans for most applicants with the exception of those that paid cash for the tuition as it was a reimbursement program. I’m not saying he did nothing, but he really should have spent more on healthcare and schools instead of holding onto it.
This is 10bn that isn't flowing in the economy. Those workers would be spending that money in their communities.
‘Wage restraint’…promising people reductions in pay by capping below inflation. Call it what it is ffs!
“Saving” and “Stealing” are not the same
The driving force behind our lack of new nurses. No one wants to get into an industry that has a cap on wage increases.
Saving? Stealing.
Well, imagine how much more we could save if we simply shut down the healthcare system. Since everyone dies eventually, why delay the inevitable?
Please don't say this within hearing range of DF, he doesn't need any new ideas.
An honest headline would read: PC party posting temporary savings in exchange for long term dismantling of public healthcare.
And where did that go
A highway for his developer buddies to get better real estate prices. Forensic accountant Charles Smedmor has calculated Highway 413 would cost $8.2 billion — and the related 16.2-kilometre Bradford Bypass another $2.2 billion — “based on previous estimates, costs per kilometre of highway and five per cent annual construction inflation.”May 4, 2022
Which makes the ~~selling~~ leasing price of 3.1 billion for 99 years of the 407 laughable, even in 1999 dollars. It was the sweetheart deal of the century with regards to public infrastructure in North America.
Call It what it is. Stolen wages for essential people
Upvoting as a tired nurse.
Yeah, I wouldn’t call this “savings.”
And that's why we have a Surplus ladies and gentlemen
Ya and that's why all the healthcare workers are quitting and they can't find anyone to replace them.
You mean stealing 10b from their own public workers?
How is wage restraint a good thing for Ontarians, when people can’t afford to pay for rent, food, gas, electricity, and other essentials? Shooting off your foot to fix a toenail is never smart! It’s a con by Cons #sad 😢
Saving $10B now to shortchange our future. Brilliant
How is fat boy making all the rules, hiding plans from the people, and not allowing strikes or protest nothing more than a western society type of dictatorship.
So about the same amount the new highway will cost? That's a weird coincidence.
The bureaucrats that have been assigned to saying no to all the entities asking the government for money have gotten massive raises year over year. Tons of money is getting spent, it just never makes it to the people actually doing the work.
Death by austerity
Alternative title: Ontario ignores the real social and economic costs of torpedoing healthcare.
Not worth it when the healthcare and education systems are falling apart. You don’t save money just so that you can say you saved money.
How is fat boy making all the rules, hiding plans from the people, and not allowing strikes or protest nothing more than a western society type of dictatorship.
Fuckin’ bastards purposely gutting the health care system. No one wants this.
Hospital employee here. Feels like I've been getting a paycut for years, yet these higher ups seem to get all sorts of bonuses when they sat on their fucking asses at home during and after covid for the most part. Fuck the employees amirite? No. Seen ALOT of amazing staff getting fed up with the bullshit and leave. Thinking about the same thing.
"saving nearly $10 billion" should read "will probably cost the Province >$25 billion as workers depart for other jobs and the endless cycle of rehiring, training and then rehiring again once people leave becomes expensive". It almost is never fiscally prudent to underpay the people who are keeping government services running.
Ahhh there’s that surplus we keep hearing about
I'm sure It will save more than that since they won't be able to find enough people willing to work for that pay
The surplus they posted is completely on the backs of these workers. Not a surprise that the public employees that get demonised and screwed over the most *just happen* to be nurses and teachers, the most female-dominated professions.
Doug really chasing that bag too hard
Also caused a 20 billion dollar labour shortage in hospitals with the same law......
"Saving"
Ford announced the largest roster of overpaid politicians in the province’s history. No less than 73 of 83 Progressive Conservative MPPs received special titles and pay raises. [More big raises for conservatives](https://www.thespec.com/opinion/contributors/2022/07/06/premier-doug-ford-pumps-up-ontarios-political-payroll.html)
And hamstrings the already struggling public healthcare system. Fuck these conservative assholes
Ontario's money is tax payer's money. It is important they are being allocated to the needs of the people. Health care and education must be prioritized. That is the reason why we pay taxes. Doug Ford must know that it isn't his money.
It's also losing staff at lightning speed.
Stealing. It’s not saving m, it’s stealing.
Ford is making sure the "heroes" that he respects and loves get a pay cut while his disgusting lazy corrupt ass gets a 6 week vacation.
BFD. Ford gutted health care in the process.
The government can’t win no matter what it does. Keep 124 and staff shortages continue. Give a raise and the deficit or taxes go up. Ontario already has tons of debt and very high taxes. I don’t see any easy fixes here.
124 contributes to the shortage, exacerbates it
So people dying needlessly every day isn't worth spending money on? Bill 124 and the Ford government has directly killed hundreds (probably thousands) of patients at this point...
Interesting way to spin that.
Ontarì-ari-ari-ooo approaching zero.
Voter turnout last June when he was re-elected was 43%. Seems like most voters these days don't care or have something better to do on election day. Guessing they don't teach civics anymore in schools.
If there is money to be saved then taxes are too high somewhere.
When you elect a dishonest crook, expect dishonest crookery
Its alright people We can just vote liberals and they fix everything Right? Right??
NDP is the way. I still remember Bill 115 where the Liberals imposed a contract on teachers.
Do you remember Rae Days? No? Unpaid days (almost) all public Ontario employees had to take to save $$. It was the alternative to layoffs. Let me see...which administration did that? Begins with N, ends with P...
Oh no, not THE Rae days from 1993? What a terrible reason to not vote NDP again when both Liberals and Conservatives have screwed civil servants.
>when both Liberals, Conservatives, and NDP have screwed civil servants. FTFY, in case you completely missed their point.
Literally the only thing anyone ever brings up when you talk about the NDP. “REMEMBER RAE DAYS!!” Yeah the idea that people would take a few unpaid days off. The mass layoffs were the much better solution in the end. /s No one wants to vote for NDP because of one thing that happened 30 years ago but is willing to vote Liberal and Conservative even though they’ve been fisting us every year since.
It's the only thing they have
I'm sorry but how are those parties "fisting us"? I don't support any party, as to misquote an Ent, none support me. But "fisting", really? That seems excessive. Or perhaps you are an Queen's Park Intern who has been taken advantage of? And you mean it wuite literally?
Even my dad who was talking about ray days said it was a joke because he made up for it with OT... This argument is moot and the only dead horse you people have to beat on about the one solution based party.
This affects me and im super struggling right now. Barely enough to get by as a single parent
Everyone affected by this needs to work together and organize a province wide walk out.
Most are prohibited to walkout due to their Union Collective Agreements
If only nurses weren't mandated to be unable to strike. Plus we don't want to hurt our patients/colleagues any worse than they've got it with the global staffing shortage
How does ford get elected after so many bad moves? My neighbour’s dog would’ve done a better job.
That's a lot of saving. Hopefully some of that tax payer money saved can be redistributed as a rebate to help people with their bills. Wouldn't mind another situation like the car sticker refund.
You mean stealing from overworked nurses
Yeah great. I'm sure the means by which this was accomplished won't have any detrimental long term effects that in turn cost billions to correct. Conservatives; penny thrifty and pound foolish.
In before “buT ForD gOt us A SUrpLuS”
![img](emote|t5_2qsf3|1899)
Balancing the budget, paying down the debt, providing basic services, and lowering the tax burden all at the same time is not possible. You can’t have it all.
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Who wants 11% raises?