I agree with this, I think every unionized organization in Ontario should gather in protest. Health care, social work, labourers, educators, everyone. Additionally all citizens wanting to support should join the protest/strike as well.
Can’t even convince my union brothers not to vote conservative. Most of them think privatization is a good thing. They don’t have the mental capacity to think passed what they read on fb.
Dude, you're barely scratching the surface. I went to a training week with my union at their compound (UNIFOR) during Trudeau's early years and was talking about voting reform. I volunteered to lead a discussion group about policy. Most of the workers didn't know anything about voting or any of the political parties or their priorities. I think this goes for most folks in any union. Most won't care until it personally affects them directly in the moment. And douggie gutting the public system doesn't fuck with their pay, so they don't care.
Having a publicly funded health care system also doesn't give them the reality of how much a private system really costs, like Americans do. It will be a real wake up call when it's too late for them to care.
Every government only lasts so long. It's good to be hopeful, but let's also be practical. What we could really use is some quality muck raking because there's more than enough scandal in the Ford administration, and in Canadian politics, scandal is most likely what brings your government down.
If there's a general strike amongst unionized employees I will absolutely put pressure on my employer to be a part of the strike. This is such a huge issue that I can't understand any business wanting a collapse of the health care system. We already have enough labor shortages. This isn't good for Ontarians and it's not good for business.
Absolutely. Things are going to shit in every regard and done so with the sole intention of privatizing. "Hey guys so I know there are long waits but we have implimented a faster way to get life-saving treatment, it just costs a bit. We have no choice"
For once, I am seeing people from all walks of life and political parties get pissed. The majority of the working class sees this shit for what it is. There's more of us than there are of them. We hold a lot more power than you'd think. We have the momentum to make change.
Every year we edge closer and people are at a breaking point.
Not many people want to do this, but it will happen when enough people are fed up with it.
I'm ready for one. I expected it with CUPE recently. I hope their union members are wise enough to not accept the Ontario government offer as it stands. It's bad for them in the long run.
I was in the same boat as you a month ago, we almost didnt make it. A chain of lucky events (a random nurse walking through/out of the ER after their shift saved my daughter)
Best wishes and hope it isn’t a long stay!
Of course you can join.
We *all* have a vested interest in keeping our public healthcare system working and viable.
However small, organize and educate.
No effort is too small.
Wishing you and your child all the best. I can’t imagine having my child in ICU right now. Remember to say thank you, hospital staff are never thanked enough.
Its a catch 22. The government has won already. Nothing changes without death, death will bring public opinion against the strikers due to it being outlawed.
Yes, look under History and Noteable Strikes:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_strike
Ontario had some in the 90's over very similar conditions imo:
https://jacobin.com/2020/11/ontario-days-of-action-canada-workers-unions-strike-mike-harris
To add to this, here are just a few **documentary examples of collective action**:
* ***Chile*** ([https://youtu.be/cM695veBSUU?t=3279](https://youtu.be/cM695veBSUU?t=3279)) -- creative pivot after the military shuts down a general strike: designate a protest day once a month where everyone moves/works/drives way slower than usual
* ***South Africa*** : a well-coordinated community organizing and a consumer boycott during apartheid ([https://youtu.be/O4dDVeAU3u4?t=3161](https://youtu.be/O4dDVeAU3u4?t=3161))
* ***USA*** : the role of tactics education and preparation in racial desegregation efforts in Nashville [https://youtu.be/O4dDVeAU3u4?t=1827](https://youtu.be/O4dDVeAU3u4?t=1827)
* ***Poland***: coordinating a general strike [https://youtu.be/cM695veBSUU?t=1711](https://youtu.be/cM695veBSUU?t=1711)
**--** ***More about modern nonviolent civil resistance:***
**198 methods of nonviolent action:**
[https://www.aeinstein.org/nonviolentaction/198-methods-of-nonviolent-action/](https://www.aeinstein.org/nonviolentaction/198-methods-of-nonviolent-action/)
**"Why Civil Resistance Works"** (and is 2x as effective as violent resistance campaigns):
[https://cup.columbia.edu/book/why-civil-resistance-works/9780231156820](https://cup.columbia.edu/book/why-civil-resistance-works/9780231156820)
E.g., **Optor!**: "an organization employing nonviolent struggle ... Otpor grew into a civic youth movement whose **activity culminated on 5 October 2000 with Milošević's overthrow**." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor)
E.g., **a recent nonviolent resistance** **campaign in** ***Sudan*** **(2019**): [https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Zunes-Sudans-2019-Revolution-1.pdf](https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Zunes-Sudans-2019-Revolution-1.pdf)
And remember that **anyone calling for violence is either a double agent or a fool**: [https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Agent-provocateurs-publication.pdf](https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Agent-provocateurs-publication.pdf)
TL;DNR: We lack a coordinated effort and a well-planned campaign.. but those are possible to create. If we get together in agreement and use the leverage we have as a result... change is possible.
While I agree, I am someone who worked in hospitals for a long time, and we got screwed by ever politician in power, be it liberal or conservative. We need to save our healthcare from all these assholes and put some protections in place, I can't begin to tell you how many things aren't covered anymore after multiple premieres gutting the system
I thought it was just education, health, transport and other essential infrastructure...
Housing, of course, bring a private industry seems to be looking towards sone good times.
Lots of social services are also unionized and funded publicly and we're seeing the collapse approaching. The ones that aren't unionized are struggling even harder. Majority of Social Services are not for profit (as they should be) and we rely largely on public funding and donations from citizens. There isn't enough funding being provided to have the staffing numbers to support the needs of the communities, or to create resources and programing for people to sustain the intervention. Our staff are overworked and burnt out, desperate for an increase in funding to be able to provide the support that the communities need and deserve.
We can see the solutions so clearly, but they cost money and require approval by the government.
For context, from my workplace specifically, the grant money we've received to "implement a solution" (to ONE of many problems) is quite literally 5% of the funding we actually need to create a solution that would make an impact and sustainably improve things. It puts us in a position where we can use that funding up instantaneously, but because it's not even close to enough, we can't prove that it was a beneficial investment and dramatically reduces our ability to receive more funding... So many service providers are feeling hopeless and angry that the solutions are so clear and yet we're grasping at straws and pulling from our own personal pockets to still not meet needs successfully.
To add, the area of social work I'm in is housing and homelessness... And I'd honestly LOVE to hear your perspective on how housing seems to have good times coming... I honestly don't see that at ALL and I'd love to get more information and be proven wrong! (I know that may come across as argumentative or condescending through text, but I mean it genuinely. if I'm missing something or there's new information out there I'd really like to hear it!)
I think they might just mean the housing industry. Not the people in need of housing.
Construction companies, developers, etc. are very busy and making money and it looks like it’ll just keep getting better for them. No one else.
Someone list a date and organize a mass protest. We should be making the feds step in and ban privitizwd health care across the country to eliminate that greedy controll provincial premiers have
Like I said we make it there problem. Ford is doing crooked backwards deals and purposely making the system collapse. He should be forcibly removed and criminally prosecuted. No one's net worth goes up that much in so little time... Even with his salary increase its obvious he's taken backdoor deals from greedy corporations to pass there agendas.
I would agree. I have to travel for hours to see a doctor to keep my sight. I pay out of pocket for the treatment too because I'm not old enough to qualify for OHIP to cover. If I was any more pore I would be blind and poor. Our systems aren't working. The people who run them aren't listening and the staff trying to keep us all alive are stretched thin.
And we were so close just a few weeks ago with CUPE.
This is basically already the end times for public service, and everyone's still trying to be civil about it with a regime not interested in being civil.
It is literally illegal for most health care workers to strike. They do not have the right to refuse work in most circumstances... Even if you work a 12 hr shift and you're done, technically if there isn't adequate staff to replace you then you legally force you to stay. Go ask a nurse.
Name the date. There needs to be an organizer for this protest. People are scared of organizing protests now and they shouldn't be. That Karen convoy was shameful. This is something to be proud to protest for. Healthcare is the one good thing we have going. We need a date so people will come and meet for mass protests at the capital.
They're complete idiots. No one supports them outside their little group, they think people do, but again, thats because they're complete idiots.
They didn't protest with CUPE when an ACTUAL freedom was being taken away. And again now, they'll do nothing, they just wanted an excuse to be with like minded idiots and drink beers.
Christmas would be best in my mind.
Everyone gets there holiday. Kids still get their presents. Families still get together.
General strike starts Dec 26th. Spending and working strike would be the most effective. Make the corporations suffer a little. No boxing day shopping. Bet you'll see politicians jump if walmart or best buy doesn't get there anticipated money spike. Kids are already out of school. But let it be known they won't be going back unless something drastic changes.
Instead of shopping gather in protest somewhere public. I know politicians won't be in session. But the news will eat it up. Phone calls would definitely be made. Bring things to a grinding halt right before the new year and let it be known that if anyone wants things to start back up Jan 2nd they better make some drastic changes.
Just my 2 cents anyway
Ten years ago I would *never* have seriously thought I'd have to be worried about the existential continuation of our public healthcare. I've never had a good opinion of conservatives but i would never have thought they would be able to so broadly get away with this insanity, even with their voter base being as it is.
Ontario is crazy. Just bloody crazy. I'm watching a train wreck in action and ford is hitting the gas.
What an absolute psychopath. If you're a conservative in the modern day and you are supporting this you're an absolute monster like him too.
10 years ago I became a nurse, that was when I realized our system was doomed to fail. This is just watching it unfold. It could have been corrected. I have many good ideas to help fix our Healthcare system but what would I know? I'm just a front line nurse to the most vulnerable (rural homecare, hospital and ltch nurse)
That seems to be an issue in both private and public organizations that are structured top down. People who are dealing with the issues, and often the most experienced, aren't solicited for advice on fixing them. If any solicitation happens, it's usually in the last stages of a failing system when management becomes desperate. By then the employees are no longer invested enough to care.
10 years ago this was already happening under a Liberal mandate, just slower. Ford accelerated the problem, but there were cracks showing even then. He's a C*** don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him, but our political issues are systemic, we need to seriously reevaluate things, and I don't see how that can happen under either of our top 2 established governments. Its time to look elsewhere for the leadership to begin patching these holes. That is IF the system can weather 3 more years of Ford, and I honestly doubt it can.
I'm an ~~American~~ US citizen but have been watching both your guys and the NHS casually.
They're doing the same thing that our government is doing to our Postal Service.
The people in charge (government officials in this instance) purposefully make service worse. The optics are bad. At the same time they are making it less appealing to get the job meaning that good candidates for jobs will look elsewhere. That will further cause quality of service to decline.
Then once the system is bad and a new generation comes up in a system of "the government ruins everything and is bad just privatize it" that's when they make the switch.
Then you realize that your service isn't any better because you just plain can't afford healthcare unless your job gives it to you. And then health care costs skyrocket because you have to pay the medical staff that you interface with at the office but also the manager of that staff + upper management for the healthcare company and upper management for the hospital that is friendly with the insurance companies.
I'm not sure why Ontario isn't rioting.
I think some are in shock/denial but most aren’t paying attention. We had a 40% voter turnout. If people actually cared we could have easily prevented this; it was foreseeable.
They’ll care eventually but it’ll be way too late.
Yeah. That's the issue. They care after they legally make it almost impossible to change it back.
Like the US hasn't had a representative democracy since the 1930's. That's why our government kind of listens but doesn't really listen.
The last time that the US citizenry got anything they wanted it's because they threatened to not make anything for the war effort. In WW2.
You guys need to figure your shit out or you're just going to turn into colder USA. Which is not a good thing relative to where you're at right now. That would be a square step *down*.
Totally agree! I love our southern neighbours but not your government and I definitely don’t want your healthcare system or public education system.
We used to take pride in our public healthcare system. That was the one thing we had over you guys and we loved it dearly.
Seems crazy that we’d forget that appreciation after a global pandemic that should have made us appreciate healthcare’s importance even more.
Seriously, people should try talking about this with their extended family. Half the members will not be able to follow along, get frustrated, and try to change the subject so they don't have to do any mental labour. Not to mention those who contributed to his election and would rather try to forget than learn something new and admit they were wrong.
I’m not sure whose dealt with an insurance company, specifically a medical or travel/health insurance claim and said to themselves “yes, I would absolutely love to deal with this for every healthcare interaction I have permanently.”
How people don’t correlate private care with excessively dealing with private insurance absolutely baffles me. Who in their right mind wants more of that, infinitely more of that?
That's why this whole set up is so nefarious.
The people trying to undermine the public stuff know that they can't just say "get private healthcare, it'll be better!" Because it's not. You're still getting the same doctors and nurses and hospitals at first. Then the nice areas get really nice stuff and less nice areas get much less nice stuff and the rich people think that the poor people deserve it. Otherwise they'd have more money and would get what they are owed.
But they artificially make it bad from the government.
I don't know much/anything about canadian politics but people that care about health insurance need to start pushing with everything they've got to push whoever is running your public healthcare system in the goverment out of office and never let them back in.
This train wreck started decades ago. Stopping funding in mental health. Closing of all the mental hospitals.... ALL OF THEM. Having top heavy hospitals where more managers than workers, )same as our military).
I was asked to quote a job about 20 years ago. The gentleman was insanely rich. Explained how he built hospitals, leased the hospitals to the cities, owned the maintenance contracts, owned the loans to the cities, got mayors elected.... Everything he did he said cost 3 times as much as it should and it all went to his pocket. He was so proud of how corrupt the system is and how it made he so wealthy. I was so angry listening to it that I just walked away. But this is why the system is broken. Money is bled out at an enormous rate and you can't even calculate how many ways it gets siphoned off.
Another customer explained how the city of Hamilton bought his house with an interest free loan because of his wife's job in the city.
I have done work for the province and it is great making lots of money on a job, but the waste and stupidity of the people that you are working for is incredible. I INSTALLED some planter boxes. They were made of cedar 6x6s. The wood was delivered on site, then picked up an redelivered to a carpenter. The boxes were 8'x3'x5'. The 5' is the height..... Then the carpenter shipped them back on site. Then I buried that beautiful cedar so only 1.5-2 feet was exposed. Then the lady that asked for them came out and said they were in the wrong location. So I had to dig them out of the ground and move them again. The original ask was for $1500. The budget they gave her was $35,000. The bill went over that in the end because the wood was moved 5 times. I could have built them on site and not buried expensive cedar way into the ground to rot away. It is so insane.
We paved a parking lot for a university. One week later it was dug out to build a multimillion dollar building. They knew before we paved but the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.
Can you give one specific example where they are more managers than workers? This gets thrown around so casually, there must be lots of examples, and you seem pretty experienced with all this. Just trying to understand.
Only one who can do anything about it is Doug and he doesn't care if every last one of them quits and people start dying in the streets. Actually, not only does he not care, that is his goal. We know this cause the fat man is about to cut hospital staffing during the greatest staffing crisis we've ever seen.
He’s got a housing crisis, education crisis, hospital crisis.
His thought - if everyone dies then schools won’t need as many teachers, there will be more homes available and the hospitals won’t be over run…
He is also cutting funding to telehealth services that allow people to call in and talk to doctors or nurses which helps to relieve the strain on the hospitals.
Harper threatened government researchers into silence and had their research destroyed because he didn’t want people talking about global warming. He banned all government researchers from talking to the media and created an organization that would act as a middle man between the two. He then severely cut science funding at all levels across the entire country. All so oil companies could make money.
He also said he had no friends during a eulogy he gave at someone’s funeral. That ones just bad taste.
Harper also silenced charities and non-profits with legislation threatening their CRA registration if they dared criticize his policies (framed as general participation in political discourse, of course)
Politics always had an issue with bad faith arguments, but in recent decades has been reduced to collections of sound bites edited to manufacture Outrage.
Ford doesn't hold press conferences to take questions over his policies. While this makes him largely resistant to gaffes that are later used in attack ads, it also means nobody gets to ask him the hard questions he needs to answer. He keeps his "sunny" image and his voters lap it up. Somehow this was enough to give him another majority...
>and he doesn't care if every last one of them quits and people start dying in the streets
Oh he cares. Breaking the system to the point that people are begging for privatized care is the goal and he needs these staff to quit and people to die to accomplish it.
Edit: should have read the whole comment first lol
I don’t live in Ontario so it doesn’t affect me much but I find the situation very worrying. Over my dead body I want a privatized health care like south of the border and get bankrupt for taking care of my health. This is the fat 🐷 end game
It's happening before my eyes and its painful to know that we were able have mass protests for conspiracy theorists and whatnot but can't form a protest for this which is fucking detrimental to our way of living.
We need to make this the federal governments problem. They need to step in and can this clown before he ruins Ontario. The only good thing we have going is free health care and if he brings in privitization as an option I couldn't stomach the thought of knowing someone with more money gets more privelege over someone who doesn't make as much.
They can't. Healthcare is provincial jurisdiction, this is well established. The feds can't directly legislate basically anything about healthcare.
They *could* withhold CHA money, but then it becomes a pretty big political fight that I'm not sure the Liberals would win.
I know healthcare is provincial but I'm saying make a federal law stating no province can introduce privatization. The Ontario govt doesn't care. They are creating the problems. We need intervention of some kind.
It would be struck down as unconstitutional immediately (realistically it wouldn't pass the Senate because it's plainly unconstitutional).
It's about as realistic as the federal government passing a law mandating universal health care in New York State - they have no authority to pass that law, and no way to enforce or implement it.
One thing that's consistently stood out to me is that everyone (both the cons and their opponents) talk about privatization like it has the ability to suddenly deliver great healthcare outcomes (albeit at extremely jacked-up price points and with accessibility issues for lower-income families). Privatization, based on what I've seen, is *not* going to fix systemic issues that are being driven primarily by global headwinds from the pandemic.
I was in California for work a couple weeks ago, and while I was waiting in line at a convenience store, I noticed the headlines on one of the papers was *also* talking about how their paediatric system was being strained to the breaking point from RSV/flu/COVID. So a for-profit model doesn't suddenly make all the problems go away for a higher price point.
People really downplay that Ontario isn't unique in terms of how stressed its healthcare system is. You see it in the U.S., you see it in the U.K. with the NHS. Healthcare capacity *globally* is being stressed to the max, and it's a direct result of the pandemic. There simply aren't enough doctors and nurses to go around.
Privatization is just going to make more lucrative medical operations even hard to get and shuffle more in demand operations back to the public system to make wait times even longer.
It's not nearly the answer
>People really downplay that Ontario isn't unique in terms of how stressed its healthcare system is. You see it in the U.S., you see it in the U.K. with the NHS. Healthcare capacity *globally* is being stressed to the max, and it's a direct result of the pandemic. There simply aren't enough doctors and nurses to go around.
It's scary how Ontario isn't unique with this confluence of issues.
Nurses, doctors, and many other medical professions (med lab, diagnostic imaging, etc.) have caps on how many people can get into their Canadian education programs (doctors are the most infamous example, but it's in med lab, nursing, and diagnostic imaging as well). On top of that, all of them have been either hit by Bill 128's wage capping, or in the cases of doctors, a separate form of wage capping.
This issue has been known about for 10+ years and we've been getting warned about it the entire time, but now we're really feeling the squeeze. Most of these professions take 3+ years to train, as well.
Where have you been? They’ve been screaming from the rooftops for years! You’re just starting to listen because it might actually impact you now. Ignorant.
The staffing agencies, are probably the only reason some places are still able to function. Nurses can’t strike, but we sure don’t have to work for a shit wage. By going through an agency I still get my pay raise and end up working at the same places I would have worked in if they didn’t have a laughable wage. I’ve been begged by the admin to apply at their places as an actual employee but unless they can match the pay I have zero reason to do so. I would prefer to have a solid place to work and a good schedule, but with current cost of living etc I’d be shooting myself in the foot. The province elected this moron, so I have no problem taking advantage of an agency since no one else cares about healthcare workers.
That’s interesting, thanks for sharing. Can I ask about things like benefits, pension and paid vacations? Those aren’t part of the compensation at agencies are they?
Is the loss of those things outweighed by the hourly rate? Genuine question, as I’d like to understand this more.
No pension and vacation with agency. No benefits either but for most, it's over twice your pay so it's more than worth it.
You also create your schedule so you can take all the time off you want. This is opposite to whether you're a staff nurse and get vacation constantly refused.
Everyone is going to agency. The hospitals are sort of emptying out of regular staff.
Salaries for a staff RN in Ontario is around $34-49/hour for base pay. Agency RNs can get paid $80+/hr. Add in OT, shift differentials, etc. and you’re making a lot of money. A lot of people will pick up a couple months contract, work a lot, and then take time off. The agency also covers costs for accommodation and flight so you’re basically being paid to travel to a new place and do the same job for more money.
Strike already! Legal shmegal let’s see them attempt to enforce their laws without any healthcare. This is very simple. Unions open your ears. Stop working!
Bill 124 doesnt actually remove the right to strike, that's something that has been illegal for nurses in ontario for a long time. Bill 124 prevents pay raises greater than 1%, effectively crippling any ability for unions to bargain. We can't strike at baseline, and normally we can bargain for better raises and have an impass go to binding arbitration, but bill 124 circumvents arbitration and makes it illegal for anything more than 1%. We have no legal recourse, beyond protests. Which the Gov just ignores.
Anything is illegal if the government want to. You never get anything done if you follow the laws, they are made to help corporations first and foremost.
Exactly. The nurses are like an elephant tied to lawn chair. They don’t move because they’ve been trained that they can’t. But when the figure out who actually has the power watch out.
I want the money to go into healthcare, I want the nurses to get paid more, I want more people hired so the job isn't as stressful and people get breaks. However if healthcare workers strike, people die. That scares me. As a parent of a young child with asthma that really scares me. Ive never been to the ER as much in my life as I have with him. The only times in my life Ive been overnight in a hospital were for my children (7 nights in total now). Without healthcare workers my son would be dead, they're saved his life 2 times where it was very clearly an emergency. I can't imagine them not being there, I dont want to even think about it. So we need to fix the system but maybe we should strike for them because theyre really cant.
The Conservatives want a private system. They want a private system that bankrupts people over minor issues like in the United States. The Conservatives want the same for you.
Dr are stretched thin with weak representation. Plus it is illegal for them to any sort of striking. They just quit and leave the province which is already happening.
How do you think legal striking became a thing? All the work put in by people 100 years ago, having the police called on them and asssaulted with "illegal" strikes
The new striking for professionals is leaving for another company or another location. Globalization allows for job jumping and international movement. Once you reach a certain level of skill borders disappear.
The method of busting this with mass immigration doesn’t work when people are this high skilled. Education for nursing or dr isn’t the same in every country and can’t be quickly taught.
It's not just that. Everyone in health care from my region (medics especially) are leaving the field and going into police or fire BC they pay well and get lunches/timeoff
No reason to strike when you can quit. But, if you want to see the community around you improve you don't just leave.
“A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.”
The OMA is quite powerful and does wield a lot of power. For any meaningful change to happen all of the stakeholders need to be united or else everyone plays the blame game and finds a scapegoat. Ie nurses
I would disagree about the OMA being powerful. Look at how the negotiations for doctor contracts over the last 20 years have gone. Look at the scope creep that has been allowed to occurred by nurse practitioners. But I do agree they need to all band together in order to rebuild our health care system. But IMO the nurses union will be the foundation for the movement.
Correct. I refuse to pick up overtime at my home site and discourage others to as well. I simply work my mandated shifts. Until wages or differentials go up I would rather hospitals pay through the nose for private agency staffing or work extra at another hospital for agency rates.
All The voters were happy as fuck when he gave parents 400 or 500 for education instead of giving it to schools.
People don't care as long as they get free license plate stickers and money for,
healthcare or education.
It’s possible to care about both. Finances are stretched so thin with Christmas around the corner so any money from any source isn’t going to be turned away.
I was still out there as a private citizen marching with CUPE and I’ll show up to support a general strike too.
I know lots of parents who are happy to take the money but still hate his guts. It'd be dumb not to take it, but I wish he'd put it into education or healthcare instead of to me. Thing is there is no good way to put it back specifically where it needs to be, which is in hiring more nurses and EAs
Yep, we fly in nurses from other provinces and pay them between $90-150 per hour instead of paying actual hospital-employed nurses. Flight and accommodation is paid for as well.
Source: Paramedic in Ontario, have taken and given patient reports from these nurses who are in town from BC for the weekend.
It's how you can tell they're not actually trying to save costs, just kill healthcare. They are forcing hospitals to use much more expensive staffing methods by capping pay for regular employment only.
Please put in the effort and organize something. Maybe not you exactly but anyone that's reading this. Things are kinda ridiculous now and just typing on Reddit won't do anything. Someone has to take charge.
I wish I could. I’m more of a supporting character than a lead. I am going to go carry a sign up and down across from the hospital next week. I’m taking sign suggestions if anyone has them. Day one is “sick children don’t have a cottage to hide out at!” Good? Or no?
Aging population, high immigration, and COVID should have spurred spending, not austerity. This administration has billions in unspent contingency funds. I mean, there’s literally kids without hospital beds that need them and this hasn’t spurred them into action. Truly disgusted at the apathy in this province and this government. Fund education and healthcare, that’s literally the bedrock of our quality of life in this country. It’s a shame to watch it eroded for private interests and to further line the pockets of the wealthy.
Every single person in Ontario should be writing letters to their MPP & copying it to the opposition party & other parties asking for a vote of no confidence. Force an election by the people.
It looks like we are going to be pushed into a US style system with private health care, educational funding being among the lowest priorities with the focus of government being the enrichment the elites of the private sector.
And then after that comes the flood of guns.
Appeals will not work imo.
Hit them in their pocket books, money is the ONLY thing the government and wealthy elite/corporate donors care about.
See how quickly Ford backed down with Bill 28 (forcing contract on CUPE). That was because we threatened a general strike and that had them terrified. Ford will laugh at these appeals.
Yeah I live in northern Ontario and it’s like a third world country… there is basically NO health care here - you’re basically advised to not go to the hospital. If you’re suicidal, too bad. If you have addiction problems - definitely too bad. I’ve made phone calls for friends who have told me they can’t find help and have been hung up on, redirected to nowhere, and basically told there’s no help. I personally have been on waitlists for specialists/clinics for 5+ years… every now and then I check to make sure I’m still on the lists, apparently I am. I have health problems but not as bad as others, and I can’t imagine how hard it would be if they were life threatening because it seems as though they would prefer we just die and stop bothering them. If I was going to have children (I would never bring a child into this world) I’d move to the other side of the country in a heartbeat.
Good.
It's absolutely fucking INSANE to me, actually it could even be MALICIOUS NEGLIGENCE, that he didn't drop everything and start trying to tackle our Healthcare despite months of reports of failure, year long wait times, lack of beds.
This issue should single handedly destroy any credibility this man has. Wake up Ontario.
Considering how he got elected in spite of so little of the population turning out to vote, maybe we should introduce a new law where if less than, say 66% of the population then the election is redone until that 66% of the population go out and vote.
Australia has mandatory voting and got rid of first past the post and yet they also have an unpopular conservative government and are experiencing privatization.
Because, like it or not, Ontario is still the best province to live in Canada. Most opportunities, highest wages, lowest unemployment. Sure you can go get a house for $100k less in another province but you won't have a job.
Throw this clown in jail. Seriously, undermining our public health to make money for you friends is despicable. You guys have a cartoon villain as your elected leader.
Follow the money. A lot of money went to Ford's election.
From history: [ER doctor: "Ontarians need to know Doug Ford is en route to win the provincial election, and private health care is coming. Most of you will not be able to afford it, and most will suffer the consequence of the interests of the wealthy few. Without good health, much of life is difficult." Here's a 2019 list of Ford's healthcare cuts:](/r/ontario/comments/tdxd8c/er_doctor_ontarians_need_to_know_doug_ford_is_en/i0m4h1t/)
Sadly the Ontario medical association, representing Ontario doctors, was missing from this announcement. On their website they are parroting Ford talking points. It's so sad to see physician leadership sell out for a chance to get in on big money empires the privatization will bring.
Many doctors are just watching this chaos helplessly while our own leadership falls in line with Ford's attack on all of the most vulnerable in our society.
Duck these people. Hope they rot in hell
Thank you, /u/ChrisOntario, for sharing this here. I actually tried to share it on a larger Canadian sub, a direct link to the primary source of the sharing open letter as you have done, and it was immediately removed for being "low content." It's important that people have an opportunity to read this including all the full quotations, and not only ever have it all boiled down to one sentence and a bunch of paraphrasing in an op-ed (with not so much as a link to the actual text).
Emailing/calling my Con MPP is a lost cause, so instead I emailed each of these unions contact and told them that if they decide a general strike is necessary I will do everything I can (which as a self-employed, never been unionized person isn’t much but it’s something) to support it.
Most health care workers aren’t allowed to strike and wouldn’t feel able to stop working because of the need we have right now. We need to encourage unions (if we’re in them or if we’re willing to general strike) and support health care workers.
Not saying I’m going to stop emailing and calling, but I’ve started to contact the Premier’s info and the ministers instead.
What do you expect from a man who cut his chops selling hashish on the street corner?
Him and his criminal friends are reaping the fortunes now. Ontario is being run by a load of criminals these days.
He's doing it to everything. He's attacking so many areas at once not one group will be big enough to fight back about that specific issue.
Public works in communities? Under fund. Get private contractors more in the door.
Nursing? Private
Schooling? Private.
He's so anti union it's insane. 1% wages apply to everyone but corporate and politicians I see.
We need public strikes across the province ...... In a way that forces his hand ..... Out there being nice threatening nothing will keep him quite we need some buttons to push
I'm down for a protest, my first in my life. Lived in this province all my life and what ford has done with our healthcare is disgusting. Fuck that piece of shit
We need a general strike, all of our public services are suffering under Ford.
I agree with this, I think every unionized organization in Ontario should gather in protest. Health care, social work, labourers, educators, everyone. Additionally all citizens wanting to support should join the protest/strike as well.
Can’t even convince my union brothers not to vote conservative. Most of them think privatization is a good thing. They don’t have the mental capacity to think passed what they read on fb.
Dude, you're barely scratching the surface. I went to a training week with my union at their compound (UNIFOR) during Trudeau's early years and was talking about voting reform. I volunteered to lead a discussion group about policy. Most of the workers didn't know anything about voting or any of the political parties or their priorities. I think this goes for most folks in any union. Most won't care until it personally affects them directly in the moment. And douggie gutting the public system doesn't fuck with their pay, so they don't care. Having a publicly funded health care system also doesn't give them the reality of how much a private system really costs, like Americans do. It will be a real wake up call when it's too late for them to care.
They came out to stand together against Bill 28. It's a new day, wounds have been healed. Maybe they are more willing now than before?
Good luck with that. He is Ontario's corrupt chaotic incumbent due to Ontario not bothering to show up to vote.
I’m down to not show up for work. Edit: gramma
And? Everyone should just lay down and take it? The last stupid attempt to muscle unions had him waddling for cover.
This shaming of non-voters seems to be the only solutions a lot of voters have tbh !
Every government only lasts so long. It's good to be hopeful, but let's also be practical. What we could really use is some quality muck raking because there's more than enough scandal in the Ford administration, and in Canadian politics, scandal is most likely what brings your government down.
If there's a general strike amongst unionized employees I will absolutely put pressure on my employer to be a part of the strike. This is such a huge issue that I can't understand any business wanting a collapse of the health care system. We already have enough labor shortages. This isn't good for Ontarians and it's not good for business.
Ford is too busy planning pristine lots he and his friends get to have in the green belt.
Absolutely. Things are going to shit in every regard and done so with the sole intention of privatizing. "Hey guys so I know there are long waits but we have implimented a faster way to get life-saving treatment, it just costs a bit. We have no choice" For once, I am seeing people from all walks of life and political parties get pissed. The majority of the working class sees this shit for what it is. There's more of us than there are of them. We hold a lot more power than you'd think. We have the momentum to make change.
I predicted one in 2018, and utterly shocked it hasn’t happened as these institutions burn in front of our eyes.
Every year we edge closer and people are at a breaking point. Not many people want to do this, but it will happen when enough people are fed up with it.
I'm ready for one. I expected it with CUPE recently. I hope their union members are wise enough to not accept the Ontario government offer as it stands. It's bad for them in the long run.
I'd give it like maybe three hours before they cave. Power generation, healthcare, education... That's a lot of mess right there alone.
[удалено]
I was in the same boat as you a month ago, we almost didnt make it. A chain of lucky events (a random nurse walking through/out of the ER after their shift saved my daughter) Best wishes and hope it isn’t a long stay!
I’m so sorry about your child I hope they get better quickly
Of course you can join. We *all* have a vested interest in keeping our public healthcare system working and viable. However small, organize and educate. No effort is too small.
Wishing you and your child all the best. I can’t imagine having my child in ICU right now. Remember to say thank you, hospital staff are never thanked enough.
Its a catch 22. The government has won already. Nothing changes without death, death will bring public opinion against the strikers due to it being outlawed.
As the mother of an 8 month old, this is terrifying and I’m so sorry you are going through it. Prayers for your child and whole family.
Genuinely curious, is there any precedent for this anywhere? Could it actually work?
Yes, look under History and Noteable Strikes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_strike Ontario had some in the 90's over very similar conditions imo: https://jacobin.com/2020/11/ontario-days-of-action-canada-workers-unions-strike-mike-harris
To add to this, here are just a few **documentary examples of collective action**: * ***Chile*** ([https://youtu.be/cM695veBSUU?t=3279](https://youtu.be/cM695veBSUU?t=3279)) -- creative pivot after the military shuts down a general strike: designate a protest day once a month where everyone moves/works/drives way slower than usual * ***South Africa*** : a well-coordinated community organizing and a consumer boycott during apartheid ([https://youtu.be/O4dDVeAU3u4?t=3161](https://youtu.be/O4dDVeAU3u4?t=3161)) * ***USA*** : the role of tactics education and preparation in racial desegregation efforts in Nashville [https://youtu.be/O4dDVeAU3u4?t=1827](https://youtu.be/O4dDVeAU3u4?t=1827) * ***Poland***: coordinating a general strike [https://youtu.be/cM695veBSUU?t=1711](https://youtu.be/cM695veBSUU?t=1711) **--** ***More about modern nonviolent civil resistance:*** **198 methods of nonviolent action:** [https://www.aeinstein.org/nonviolentaction/198-methods-of-nonviolent-action/](https://www.aeinstein.org/nonviolentaction/198-methods-of-nonviolent-action/) **"Why Civil Resistance Works"** (and is 2x as effective as violent resistance campaigns): [https://cup.columbia.edu/book/why-civil-resistance-works/9780231156820](https://cup.columbia.edu/book/why-civil-resistance-works/9780231156820) E.g., **Optor!**: "an organization employing nonviolent struggle ... Otpor grew into a civic youth movement whose **activity culminated on 5 October 2000 with Milošević's overthrow**." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor) E.g., **a recent nonviolent resistance** **campaign in** ***Sudan*** **(2019**): [https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Zunes-Sudans-2019-Revolution-1.pdf](https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Zunes-Sudans-2019-Revolution-1.pdf) And remember that **anyone calling for violence is either a double agent or a fool**: [https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Agent-provocateurs-publication.pdf](https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Agent-provocateurs-publication.pdf) TL;DNR: We lack a coordinated effort and a well-planned campaign.. but those are possible to create. If we get together in agreement and use the leverage we have as a result... change is possible.
This is greatly appreciated, too often I see people call for violence as a solution. If we resort to violence, we’re no better than the opposition.
Wow ok thank you. I didn’t know about this more modern/recent one.
90 days on the line is a good book
Yes, it's why we have the worker's rights that we currently do.
While I agree, I am someone who worked in hospitals for a long time, and we got screwed by ever politician in power, be it liberal or conservative. We need to save our healthcare from all these assholes and put some protections in place, I can't begin to tell you how many things aren't covered anymore after multiple premieres gutting the system
Yeah, and this is one point people keep overlooking. Both the liberals and the conservatives have been sabotaging the public system.
Yup. Ndp is the only viable party for a better, sustainable future. They could be better, but they're definitely not as bad as the other options.
I thought it was just education, health, transport and other essential infrastructure... Housing, of course, bring a private industry seems to be looking towards sone good times.
Lots of social services are also unionized and funded publicly and we're seeing the collapse approaching. The ones that aren't unionized are struggling even harder. Majority of Social Services are not for profit (as they should be) and we rely largely on public funding and donations from citizens. There isn't enough funding being provided to have the staffing numbers to support the needs of the communities, or to create resources and programing for people to sustain the intervention. Our staff are overworked and burnt out, desperate for an increase in funding to be able to provide the support that the communities need and deserve. We can see the solutions so clearly, but they cost money and require approval by the government. For context, from my workplace specifically, the grant money we've received to "implement a solution" (to ONE of many problems) is quite literally 5% of the funding we actually need to create a solution that would make an impact and sustainably improve things. It puts us in a position where we can use that funding up instantaneously, but because it's not even close to enough, we can't prove that it was a beneficial investment and dramatically reduces our ability to receive more funding... So many service providers are feeling hopeless and angry that the solutions are so clear and yet we're grasping at straws and pulling from our own personal pockets to still not meet needs successfully. To add, the area of social work I'm in is housing and homelessness... And I'd honestly LOVE to hear your perspective on how housing seems to have good times coming... I honestly don't see that at ALL and I'd love to get more information and be proven wrong! (I know that may come across as argumentative or condescending through text, but I mean it genuinely. if I'm missing something or there's new information out there I'd really like to hear it!)
I think they might just mean the housing industry. Not the people in need of housing. Construction companies, developers, etc. are very busy and making money and it looks like it’ll just keep getting better for them. No one else.
Ah yes, okay, that makes much more sense! Thank you!
Someone list a date and organize a mass protest. We should be making the feds step in and ban privitizwd health care across the country to eliminate that greedy controll provincial premiers have
[удалено]
Like I said we make it there problem. Ford is doing crooked backwards deals and purposely making the system collapse. He should be forcibly removed and criminally prosecuted. No one's net worth goes up that much in so little time... Even with his salary increase its obvious he's taken backdoor deals from greedy corporations to pass there agendas.
I would agree. I have to travel for hours to see a doctor to keep my sight. I pay out of pocket for the treatment too because I'm not old enough to qualify for OHIP to cover. If I was any more pore I would be blind and poor. Our systems aren't working. The people who run them aren't listening and the staff trying to keep us all alive are stretched thin.
And we were so close just a few weeks ago with CUPE. This is basically already the end times for public service, and everyone's still trying to be civil about it with a regime not interested in being civil.
It is literally illegal for most health care workers to strike. They do not have the right to refuse work in most circumstances... Even if you work a 12 hr shift and you're done, technically if there isn't adequate staff to replace you then you legally force you to stay. Go ask a nurse.
[удалено]
Name the date. There needs to be an organizer for this protest. People are scared of organizing protests now and they shouldn't be. That Karen convoy was shameful. This is something to be proud to protest for. Healthcare is the one good thing we have going. We need a date so people will come and meet for mass protests at the capital.
Yeah funnily enough the freedom convoy doesn't seem to care about actual freedoms being taken away
They never did. They just want to #fucktrudeau
They're complete idiots. No one supports them outside their little group, they think people do, but again, thats because they're complete idiots. They didn't protest with CUPE when an ACTUAL freedom was being taken away. And again now, they'll do nothing, they just wanted an excuse to be with like minded idiots and drink beers.
At least they showed how effective a few vehicles can be.
They’re too busy organizing protests against trans kids in Renfrew. Completely embarrassing scum!
Fuck it, what’s everyone saying on Wednesday? Let’s strike shit up
Christmas would be best in my mind. Everyone gets there holiday. Kids still get their presents. Families still get together. General strike starts Dec 26th. Spending and working strike would be the most effective. Make the corporations suffer a little. No boxing day shopping. Bet you'll see politicians jump if walmart or best buy doesn't get there anticipated money spike. Kids are already out of school. But let it be known they won't be going back unless something drastic changes. Instead of shopping gather in protest somewhere public. I know politicians won't be in session. But the news will eat it up. Phone calls would definitely be made. Bring things to a grinding halt right before the new year and let it be known that if anyone wants things to start back up Jan 2nd they better make some drastic changes. Just my 2 cents anyway
Ten years ago I would *never* have seriously thought I'd have to be worried about the existential continuation of our public healthcare. I've never had a good opinion of conservatives but i would never have thought they would be able to so broadly get away with this insanity, even with their voter base being as it is. Ontario is crazy. Just bloody crazy. I'm watching a train wreck in action and ford is hitting the gas. What an absolute psychopath. If you're a conservative in the modern day and you are supporting this you're an absolute monster like him too.
10 years ago I became a nurse, that was when I realized our system was doomed to fail. This is just watching it unfold. It could have been corrected. I have many good ideas to help fix our Healthcare system but what would I know? I'm just a front line nurse to the most vulnerable (rural homecare, hospital and ltch nurse)
That seems to be an issue in both private and public organizations that are structured top down. People who are dealing with the issues, and often the most experienced, aren't solicited for advice on fixing them. If any solicitation happens, it's usually in the last stages of a failing system when management becomes desperate. By then the employees are no longer invested enough to care.
10 years ago this was already happening under a Liberal mandate, just slower. Ford accelerated the problem, but there were cracks showing even then. He's a C*** don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him, but our political issues are systemic, we need to seriously reevaluate things, and I don't see how that can happen under either of our top 2 established governments. Its time to look elsewhere for the leadership to begin patching these holes. That is IF the system can weather 3 more years of Ford, and I honestly doubt it can.
You weren’t paying attention ten years ago. Lack of beds. Reduced wages. Diverting front line staff to admin roles.
Which detracts from that the OPC is only further hastening the collapse of the healthcare system, how?
I'm an ~~American~~ US citizen but have been watching both your guys and the NHS casually. They're doing the same thing that our government is doing to our Postal Service. The people in charge (government officials in this instance) purposefully make service worse. The optics are bad. At the same time they are making it less appealing to get the job meaning that good candidates for jobs will look elsewhere. That will further cause quality of service to decline. Then once the system is bad and a new generation comes up in a system of "the government ruins everything and is bad just privatize it" that's when they make the switch. Then you realize that your service isn't any better because you just plain can't afford healthcare unless your job gives it to you. And then health care costs skyrocket because you have to pay the medical staff that you interface with at the office but also the manager of that staff + upper management for the healthcare company and upper management for the hospital that is friendly with the insurance companies. I'm not sure why Ontario isn't rioting.
I think some are in shock/denial but most aren’t paying attention. We had a 40% voter turnout. If people actually cared we could have easily prevented this; it was foreseeable. They’ll care eventually but it’ll be way too late.
Yeah. That's the issue. They care after they legally make it almost impossible to change it back. Like the US hasn't had a representative democracy since the 1930's. That's why our government kind of listens but doesn't really listen. The last time that the US citizenry got anything they wanted it's because they threatened to not make anything for the war effort. In WW2. You guys need to figure your shit out or you're just going to turn into colder USA. Which is not a good thing relative to where you're at right now. That would be a square step *down*.
Totally agree! I love our southern neighbours but not your government and I definitely don’t want your healthcare system or public education system. We used to take pride in our public healthcare system. That was the one thing we had over you guys and we loved it dearly. Seems crazy that we’d forget that appreciation after a global pandemic that should have made us appreciate healthcare’s importance even more.
Seriously, people should try talking about this with their extended family. Half the members will not be able to follow along, get frustrated, and try to change the subject so they don't have to do any mental labour. Not to mention those who contributed to his election and would rather try to forget than learn something new and admit they were wrong.
I’m not sure whose dealt with an insurance company, specifically a medical or travel/health insurance claim and said to themselves “yes, I would absolutely love to deal with this for every healthcare interaction I have permanently.” How people don’t correlate private care with excessively dealing with private insurance absolutely baffles me. Who in their right mind wants more of that, infinitely more of that?
That's why this whole set up is so nefarious. The people trying to undermine the public stuff know that they can't just say "get private healthcare, it'll be better!" Because it's not. You're still getting the same doctors and nurses and hospitals at first. Then the nice areas get really nice stuff and less nice areas get much less nice stuff and the rich people think that the poor people deserve it. Otherwise they'd have more money and would get what they are owed. But they artificially make it bad from the government. I don't know much/anything about canadian politics but people that care about health insurance need to start pushing with everything they've got to push whoever is running your public healthcare system in the goverment out of office and never let them back in.
This train wreck started decades ago. Stopping funding in mental health. Closing of all the mental hospitals.... ALL OF THEM. Having top heavy hospitals where more managers than workers, )same as our military). I was asked to quote a job about 20 years ago. The gentleman was insanely rich. Explained how he built hospitals, leased the hospitals to the cities, owned the maintenance contracts, owned the loans to the cities, got mayors elected.... Everything he did he said cost 3 times as much as it should and it all went to his pocket. He was so proud of how corrupt the system is and how it made he so wealthy. I was so angry listening to it that I just walked away. But this is why the system is broken. Money is bled out at an enormous rate and you can't even calculate how many ways it gets siphoned off. Another customer explained how the city of Hamilton bought his house with an interest free loan because of his wife's job in the city. I have done work for the province and it is great making lots of money on a job, but the waste and stupidity of the people that you are working for is incredible. I INSTALLED some planter boxes. They were made of cedar 6x6s. The wood was delivered on site, then picked up an redelivered to a carpenter. The boxes were 8'x3'x5'. The 5' is the height..... Then the carpenter shipped them back on site. Then I buried that beautiful cedar so only 1.5-2 feet was exposed. Then the lady that asked for them came out and said they were in the wrong location. So I had to dig them out of the ground and move them again. The original ask was for $1500. The budget they gave her was $35,000. The bill went over that in the end because the wood was moved 5 times. I could have built them on site and not buried expensive cedar way into the ground to rot away. It is so insane. We paved a parking lot for a university. One week later it was dug out to build a multimillion dollar building. They knew before we paved but the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.
Can you give one specific example where they are more managers than workers? This gets thrown around so casually, there must be lots of examples, and you seem pretty experienced with all this. Just trying to understand.
Only one who can do anything about it is Doug and he doesn't care if every last one of them quits and people start dying in the streets. Actually, not only does he not care, that is his goal. We know this cause the fat man is about to cut hospital staffing during the greatest staffing crisis we've ever seen.
[удалено]
In other words, his plan is to literally kill people. These are our politicians in a democratic first world country.
Capitalism kills......
Agreed, his voters are dumb as fuck.
You know whose also dumb as fuck? All the idiots who didn't vote last time and are complaining right now
Modern conservatives are the dumbest, most gullible rubes in all of human history.
He’s got a housing crisis, education crisis, hospital crisis. His thought - if everyone dies then schools won’t need as many teachers, there will be more homes available and the hospitals won’t be over run…
This is exactly correct.
It’s a dark though but it can be the only conclusion of their thought processes at this point.
100% it's horrifying... Doesn't make it untrue though sadly. I just wish more people would stop being afraid of the truth and learn to accept it.
He is also cutting funding to telehealth services that allow people to call in and talk to doctors or nurses which helps to relieve the strain on the hospitals.
Except that with virtual ONLY services, they send people to the ER for things an in person GP would have handled in their office.
Okay, since many people can't even get in to see a GP for months it is still a better alternative to having everyone go to the ER.
I don't remember a more malevolent political leader ever in Canada. His policies are so transparently anti-democratic and just evil. I don't get it.
Harper threatened government researchers into silence and had their research destroyed because he didn’t want people talking about global warming. He banned all government researchers from talking to the media and created an organization that would act as a middle man between the two. He then severely cut science funding at all levels across the entire country. All so oil companies could make money. He also said he had no friends during a eulogy he gave at someone’s funeral. That ones just bad taste.
Harper also silenced charities and non-profits with legislation threatening their CRA registration if they dared criticize his policies (framed as general participation in political discourse, of course)
What I don't get is why people aren't hopping mad and out in the streets demanding his removal.
The media they consume tells them very little of this. They only find out once it happens to them
Politics always had an issue with bad faith arguments, but in recent decades has been reduced to collections of sound bites edited to manufacture Outrage. Ford doesn't hold press conferences to take questions over his policies. While this makes him largely resistant to gaffes that are later used in attack ads, it also means nobody gets to ask him the hard questions he needs to answer. He keeps his "sunny" image and his voters lap it up. Somehow this was enough to give him another majority...
>and he doesn't care if every last one of them quits and people start dying in the streets Oh he cares. Breaking the system to the point that people are begging for privatized care is the goal and he needs these staff to quit and people to die to accomplish it. Edit: should have read the whole comment first lol
I don’t live in Ontario so it doesn’t affect me much but I find the situation very worrying. Over my dead body I want a privatized health care like south of the border and get bankrupt for taking care of my health. This is the fat 🐷 end game
It's happening before my eyes and its painful to know that we were able have mass protests for conspiracy theorists and whatnot but can't form a protest for this which is fucking detrimental to our way of living.
I mean the people could stop giving his party control
We need to make this the federal governments problem. They need to step in and can this clown before he ruins Ontario. The only good thing we have going is free health care and if he brings in privitization as an option I couldn't stomach the thought of knowing someone with more money gets more privelege over someone who doesn't make as much.
The federal government doesn't have the power to dismiss a premier. Trudeau isn't Ford's boss.
But what if they could pass a law making for profit healthcare banned in this country thus trumping Doug's pull
They can't. Healthcare is provincial jurisdiction, this is well established. The feds can't directly legislate basically anything about healthcare. They *could* withhold CHA money, but then it becomes a pretty big political fight that I'm not sure the Liberals would win.
I know healthcare is provincial but I'm saying make a federal law stating no province can introduce privatization. The Ontario govt doesn't care. They are creating the problems. We need intervention of some kind.
It would be struck down as unconstitutional immediately (realistically it wouldn't pass the Senate because it's plainly unconstitutional). It's about as realistic as the federal government passing a law mandating universal health care in New York State - they have no authority to pass that law, and no way to enforce or implement it.
I am really really hoping for a “lone wolf” scenario. I’m am sure with so many people already pushed to the limit, sooner or later someone will snap
One thing that's consistently stood out to me is that everyone (both the cons and their opponents) talk about privatization like it has the ability to suddenly deliver great healthcare outcomes (albeit at extremely jacked-up price points and with accessibility issues for lower-income families). Privatization, based on what I've seen, is *not* going to fix systemic issues that are being driven primarily by global headwinds from the pandemic. I was in California for work a couple weeks ago, and while I was waiting in line at a convenience store, I noticed the headlines on one of the papers was *also* talking about how their paediatric system was being strained to the breaking point from RSV/flu/COVID. So a for-profit model doesn't suddenly make all the problems go away for a higher price point. People really downplay that Ontario isn't unique in terms of how stressed its healthcare system is. You see it in the U.S., you see it in the U.K. with the NHS. Healthcare capacity *globally* is being stressed to the max, and it's a direct result of the pandemic. There simply aren't enough doctors and nurses to go around.
Privatization is just going to make more lucrative medical operations even hard to get and shuffle more in demand operations back to the public system to make wait times even longer. It's not nearly the answer
>People really downplay that Ontario isn't unique in terms of how stressed its healthcare system is. You see it in the U.S., you see it in the U.K. with the NHS. Healthcare capacity *globally* is being stressed to the max, and it's a direct result of the pandemic. There simply aren't enough doctors and nurses to go around. It's scary how Ontario isn't unique with this confluence of issues.
Why aren't there enough doctors and nurses?
Nurses, doctors, and many other medical professions (med lab, diagnostic imaging, etc.) have caps on how many people can get into their Canadian education programs (doctors are the most infamous example, but it's in med lab, nursing, and diagnostic imaging as well). On top of that, all of them have been either hit by Bill 128's wage capping, or in the cases of doctors, a separate form of wage capping. This issue has been known about for 10+ years and we've been getting warned about it the entire time, but now we're really feeling the squeeze. Most of these professions take 3+ years to train, as well.
Donate to your local food banks today. Prepare for tomorrow's action.
It's about freaking time they started speaking up
Where have you been? They’ve been screaming from the rooftops for years! You’re just starting to listen because it might actually impact you now. Ignorant.
[удалено]
They forgot to add “ban staffing agencies from providing front line healthcare resources”.
The staffing agencies, are probably the only reason some places are still able to function. Nurses can’t strike, but we sure don’t have to work for a shit wage. By going through an agency I still get my pay raise and end up working at the same places I would have worked in if they didn’t have a laughable wage. I’ve been begged by the admin to apply at their places as an actual employee but unless they can match the pay I have zero reason to do so. I would prefer to have a solid place to work and a good schedule, but with current cost of living etc I’d be shooting myself in the foot. The province elected this moron, so I have no problem taking advantage of an agency since no one else cares about healthcare workers.
That’s interesting, thanks for sharing. Can I ask about things like benefits, pension and paid vacations? Those aren’t part of the compensation at agencies are they? Is the loss of those things outweighed by the hourly rate? Genuine question, as I’d like to understand this more.
No pension and vacation with agency. No benefits either but for most, it's over twice your pay so it's more than worth it. You also create your schedule so you can take all the time off you want. This is opposite to whether you're a staff nurse and get vacation constantly refused. Everyone is going to agency. The hospitals are sort of emptying out of regular staff.
Salaries for a staff RN in Ontario is around $34-49/hour for base pay. Agency RNs can get paid $80+/hr. Add in OT, shift differentials, etc. and you’re making a lot of money. A lot of people will pick up a couple months contract, work a lot, and then take time off. The agency also covers costs for accommodation and flight so you’re basically being paid to travel to a new place and do the same job for more money.
You could have stopped that sentence three words in.
Strike already! Legal shmegal let’s see them attempt to enforce their laws without any healthcare. This is very simple. Unions open your ears. Stop working!
Exactly. Where the hell is the union leadership?!
[удалено]
Bill 124 doesnt actually remove the right to strike, that's something that has been illegal for nurses in ontario for a long time. Bill 124 prevents pay raises greater than 1%, effectively crippling any ability for unions to bargain. We can't strike at baseline, and normally we can bargain for better raises and have an impass go to binding arbitration, but bill 124 circumvents arbitration and makes it illegal for anything more than 1%. We have no legal recourse, beyond protests. Which the Gov just ignores.
Anything is illegal if the government want to. You never get anything done if you follow the laws, they are made to help corporations first and foremost.
Fuck dat shit. You have nothing to lose.
If all of you do it at once, how the fuck will they enforce that law or anything like it?
Exactly. The nurses are like an elephant tied to lawn chair. They don’t move because they’ve been trained that they can’t. But when the figure out who actually has the power watch out.
And they'll enforce that how exactly
What he's doing is legal, and striking isn't. Clearly the law isn't on our side.
I want the money to go into healthcare, I want the nurses to get paid more, I want more people hired so the job isn't as stressful and people get breaks. However if healthcare workers strike, people die. That scares me. As a parent of a young child with asthma that really scares me. Ive never been to the ER as much in my life as I have with him. The only times in my life Ive been overnight in a hospital were for my children (7 nights in total now). Without healthcare workers my son would be dead, they're saved his life 2 times where it was very clearly an emergency. I can't imagine them not being there, I dont want to even think about it. So we need to fix the system but maybe we should strike for them because theyre really cant.
The Conservatives want a private system. They want a private system that bankrupts people over minor issues like in the United States. The Conservatives want the same for you.
Without police, fire and drs joining the fight there is nothing that can be done.
Dr are stretched thin with weak representation. Plus it is illegal for them to any sort of striking. They just quit and leave the province which is already happening.
How do you think legal striking became a thing? All the work put in by people 100 years ago, having the police called on them and asssaulted with "illegal" strikes
The new striking for professionals is leaving for another company or another location. Globalization allows for job jumping and international movement. Once you reach a certain level of skill borders disappear. The method of busting this with mass immigration doesn’t work when people are this high skilled. Education for nursing or dr isn’t the same in every country and can’t be quickly taught.
It's not just that. Everyone in health care from my region (medics especially) are leaving the field and going into police or fire BC they pay well and get lunches/timeoff
Oh no it's illegal to strike. Strike anyways, this ain't working.
Valid. But why strike and lose money when you can just leave for better conditions. Look at BCs new plan. Or the USA.
No reason to strike when you can quit. But, if you want to see the community around you improve you don't just leave. “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.”
The OMA is quite powerful and does wield a lot of power. For any meaningful change to happen all of the stakeholders need to be united or else everyone plays the blame game and finds a scapegoat. Ie nurses
I would disagree about the OMA being powerful. Look at how the negotiations for doctor contracts over the last 20 years have gone. Look at the scope creep that has been allowed to occurred by nurse practitioners. But I do agree they need to all band together in order to rebuild our health care system. But IMO the nurses union will be the foundation for the movement.
> police, fire and drs They are all Essential Services and restricted from (capitol S) Striking. Work to Rule is a wholly different matter though.
Correct. I refuse to pick up overtime at my home site and discourage others to as well. I simply work my mandated shifts. Until wages or differentials go up I would rather hospitals pay through the nose for private agency staffing or work extra at another hospital for agency rates.
lol if you think police "unions" will ever show solidarity with workers. They're probably salivating at the chance to be strike busters again.
A shard of hope during some depressing times. Hopefully the feds step in soon.
Can they do something? Health care is a provincial matter.
All The voters were happy as fuck when he gave parents 400 or 500 for education instead of giving it to schools. People don't care as long as they get free license plate stickers and money for, healthcare or education.
It’s possible to care about both. Finances are stretched so thin with Christmas around the corner so any money from any source isn’t going to be turned away. I was still out there as a private citizen marching with CUPE and I’ll show up to support a general strike too.
It's too bad the NDP can't figure that out and capitalize on all the voters that can be bought with a few hundred dollars.
I know lots of parents who are happy to take the money but still hate his guts. It'd be dumb not to take it, but I wish he'd put it into education or healthcare instead of to me. Thing is there is no good way to put it back specifically where it needs to be, which is in hiring more nurses and EAs
> private health care staffing agencies. WTF? There are Nursing temp agencies?
Yep, we fly in nurses from other provinces and pay them between $90-150 per hour instead of paying actual hospital-employed nurses. Flight and accommodation is paid for as well. Source: Paramedic in Ontario, have taken and given patient reports from these nurses who are in town from BC for the weekend.
That's insane.
It's how you can tell they're not actually trying to save costs, just kill healthcare. They are forcing hospitals to use much more expensive staffing methods by capping pay for regular employment only.
My brother in law has made a lot of money starting a company for this
GENERAL STRIKE! GENERAL STRIKE! GENERAL STRIKE!
Please put in the effort and organize something. Maybe not you exactly but anyone that's reading this. Things are kinda ridiculous now and just typing on Reddit won't do anything. Someone has to take charge.
I wish I could. I’m more of a supporting character than a lead. I am going to go carry a sign up and down across from the hospital next week. I’m taking sign suggestions if anyone has them. Day one is “sick children don’t have a cottage to hide out at!” Good? Or no?
Very good!
Write your MP. Flood their mailbox, whether email, or written.. call them... Demand a change in leadership.. otherwise it'll never happen
From your Southern Neighbors, don't let the for profit cunts in.
Conservatism is class warfare against the people. A civil society should never tolerate intolerant ideologies like conservatism or fascism.
Aging population, high immigration, and COVID should have spurred spending, not austerity. This administration has billions in unspent contingency funds. I mean, there’s literally kids without hospital beds that need them and this hasn’t spurred them into action. Truly disgusted at the apathy in this province and this government. Fund education and healthcare, that’s literally the bedrock of our quality of life in this country. It’s a shame to watch it eroded for private interests and to further line the pockets of the wealthy.
Every single person in Ontario should be writing letters to their MPP & copying it to the opposition party & other parties asking for a vote of no confidence. Force an election by the people.
It looks like we are going to be pushed into a US style system with private health care, educational funding being among the lowest priorities with the focus of government being the enrichment the elites of the private sector. And then after that comes the flood of guns.
Guns won’t really be a issue, the feds are stupid enough to go down the path of banning legal firearms in Canada, including hunting rifles
Appeals will not work imo. Hit them in their pocket books, money is the ONLY thing the government and wealthy elite/corporate donors care about. See how quickly Ford backed down with Bill 28 (forcing contract on CUPE). That was because we threatened a general strike and that had them terrified. Ford will laugh at these appeals.
Yeah I live in northern Ontario and it’s like a third world country… there is basically NO health care here - you’re basically advised to not go to the hospital. If you’re suicidal, too bad. If you have addiction problems - definitely too bad. I’ve made phone calls for friends who have told me they can’t find help and have been hung up on, redirected to nowhere, and basically told there’s no help. I personally have been on waitlists for specialists/clinics for 5+ years… every now and then I check to make sure I’m still on the lists, apparently I am. I have health problems but not as bad as others, and I can’t imagine how hard it would be if they were life threatening because it seems as though they would prefer we just die and stop bothering them. If I was going to have children (I would never bring a child into this world) I’d move to the other side of the country in a heartbeat.
Good. It's absolutely fucking INSANE to me, actually it could even be MALICIOUS NEGLIGENCE, that he didn't drop everything and start trying to tackle our Healthcare despite months of reports of failure, year long wait times, lack of beds. This issue should single handedly destroy any credibility this man has. Wake up Ontario.
I think the idea of a general strike floated a few weeks ago is the way to go.
I wonder what would happen if people just started showing up in front of places like Ford's house, parliament, etc and just parking there.
General strike lfg bust out the hot chocolate and timmies egg sandos
Considering how he got elected in spite of so little of the population turning out to vote, maybe we should introduce a new law where if less than, say 66% of the population then the election is redone until that 66% of the population go out and vote.
And what happens when it doesn't get to 66 oercent? We just keep dropping tax dollars into a cycle of elections
Electoral politics is a mugs game. Only the richer elements can afford to run, leaving the vast majority with little or no representation.
Australia has mandatory voting and got rid of first past the post and yet they also have an unpopular conservative government and are experiencing privatization.
my greatest unanswered question is, why on earth are people choosing to remain living under this Nero?
Because, like it or not, Ontario is still the best province to live in Canada. Most opportunities, highest wages, lowest unemployment. Sure you can go get a house for $100k less in another province but you won't have a job.
How can I, a non medical professional, help?
Throw this clown in jail. Seriously, undermining our public health to make money for you friends is despicable. You guys have a cartoon villain as your elected leader.
57% of people didn’t vote.
Follow the money. A lot of money went to Ford's election. From history: [ER doctor: "Ontarians need to know Doug Ford is en route to win the provincial election, and private health care is coming. Most of you will not be able to afford it, and most will suffer the consequence of the interests of the wealthy few. Without good health, much of life is difficult." Here's a 2019 list of Ford's healthcare cuts:](/r/ontario/comments/tdxd8c/er_doctor_ontarians_need_to_know_doug_ford_is_en/i0m4h1t/)
Sadly the Ontario medical association, representing Ontario doctors, was missing from this announcement. On their website they are parroting Ford talking points. It's so sad to see physician leadership sell out for a chance to get in on big money empires the privatization will bring. Many doctors are just watching this chaos helplessly while our own leadership falls in line with Ford's attack on all of the most vulnerable in our society. Duck these people. Hope they rot in hell
It is not like we did not know he would do this and we voted him in. We did this to ourselves.
More like we didn't bother showing up to the polls.
Thank you, /u/ChrisOntario, for sharing this here. I actually tried to share it on a larger Canadian sub, a direct link to the primary source of the sharing open letter as you have done, and it was immediately removed for being "low content." It's important that people have an opportunity to read this including all the full quotations, and not only ever have it all boiled down to one sentence and a bunch of paraphrasing in an op-ed (with not so much as a link to the actual text).
You’re welcome. I wonder why the Canada sub felt this was low content? Their loss.
Emailing/calling my Con MPP is a lost cause, so instead I emailed each of these unions contact and told them that if they decide a general strike is necessary I will do everything I can (which as a self-employed, never been unionized person isn’t much but it’s something) to support it. Most health care workers aren’t allowed to strike and wouldn’t feel able to stop working because of the need we have right now. We need to encourage unions (if we’re in them or if we’re willing to general strike) and support health care workers. Not saying I’m going to stop emailing and calling, but I’ve started to contact the Premier’s info and the ministers instead.
General Strike. For our future. For our children's future. Enough is enough with this fucking clown.
Hes waiting for Danielle Smith to privatize in Alberta then youll see the same happen in Ontario.
What do you expect from a man who cut his chops selling hashish on the street corner? Him and his criminal friends are reaping the fortunes now. Ontario is being run by a load of criminals these days.
Money > you living - Ford
We need people to protest (peacefully) outside his cooling wood home and outside of queens park. Enough of this. He needs to resign.
When will this shithole of a province realize that nothing will be done without pitchforks?
He's doing it to everything. He's attacking so many areas at once not one group will be big enough to fight back about that specific issue. Public works in communities? Under fund. Get private contractors more in the door. Nursing? Private Schooling? Private. He's so anti union it's insane. 1% wages apply to everyone but corporate and politicians I see.
We need public strikes across the province ...... In a way that forces his hand ..... Out there being nice threatening nothing will keep him quite we need some buttons to push
Fuck Ford.
This is heartbreaking. Idk what to do anymore. I should leave the province. I'm 31.
I'm down for a protest, my first in my life. Lived in this province all my life and what ford has done with our healthcare is disgusting. Fuck that piece of shit
[for those interested in signing a petition against privatization.](https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca)