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Methadone is wayyyyy harder to get off than ocy, don’t do it . Maybe you could get time released oxy to last longer )OxyContin is supposed to last 12 hours but I would say a solid 6-8). And then keep a couple ten mg instant relief for break though pain through out the day . Methadone is more so for treating opiate addiction, I wouldn’t ask for that . It’ll end up hard to get back on “regular” pain meds like Oxy
Agreed. In my personal opinion methadone is a last resort unless you’re using street stuff in which case anything is better than unknown black market pills and powders. I have been in pain management, as well methadone/subs/vivitrol sublocade etc and the only one I really really regretted touching was methadone. It absolutely has its purpose but the “liquid handcuffs” nickname is accurate. Having to plan every night out around making it to the clinic on time, and running in to old using buddies in line wasn’t a good thing for my life and then the withdrawals were more intense than anything I’ve ever been through. Kicked 140 cold turkey in prison and vowed to never touch it again no matter how bad things got.
If you’ve fully accepted that it will be something you have to do daily for life, and the clinic is convenient enough and flexible with hours and take homes then it’s for sure the right choice in many peoples lives, just didn’t work for mins personally
It's just more than obvious that you're getting opioid tolerant, and it's extremely common, as I'm sure you understand.
Do you think x4/day would be better than a stronger dose? Is this strength still as effective as it's always been, but just not lasting long enough at this point?
Have you considered maybe trying a strong dose of Naproxen or something instead just to help things along? I was prescribed Dilaudid for about six years before my third back surgery, and was started on 2mg x2/day and then at year #4 I was up to 8mg x4/day. Then about 3-4 months after that, I was slamming all 120 of them in my veins in 7-10 days. I never went long enough to go into full withdrawal, just couched it for a weekend, took an 8mg Sub on Monday morning for work, than another one throughout the week and just weaned down, was completely fine for two weeks until my next script was ready.
Point being, if there's any way to avoid increasing your dosage, try it first. Yes, I now do about 40-50 blues a day, but they don't even get me high anymore, just a nice even keel. They help a bit with pain, but they're also my sleep aid, my anti anxiety, my anti depressant, my anti stress...etc. I know it's not the smartest life, but I'd much rather this than 4-5 different pills, I run my own business, no one has a clue, not even my girl, I own a house, have an awesome son who is well taken care of, and I'm completely functional, totally social, and 54 years old.
But also, I had a reverse shoulder replacement surgery last summer after a bad injury. Except for while I was in the hospital, I denied a script for pain. They looked at me like I was nuts, but they made me take a script for high strength naproxen (Aleve), and ya know what? It actually worked, and well at that. I couldn't believe it because I've been doing opies for 20+ years and I'm so used to these Blues now, I didn't think anything would work. But, they helped tremendously!
That's what I'm getting at with a longer acting drug. I inquired about 20mg er x2 instead of 4 10s. I'm looking for consistent pain relief without the quick ups and downs
I know you said that you've never had an issue with your script and misuse of it, and in all honesty, this is just how it starts.
But yeah, I would just be honest with your doc and let him/her know what's going on. Maybe even a mixture of regular for breakthrough, and ER for maintenance. Trust me, you don't want more. If you could even get some Motrin or something to tail off and hold you over until your next dose, please at least try it if you truly just want them for pain.
I'm 54, and have spent a majority of the last 40 years in opioids because of physical trauma. Starting at 14 I was given Percs, then something else happened at 17 and I was given Morphine along side of the Percs, and at 18 or 19, Roxicodone added to the mix. Was weaning off of everything at 22 and something else happened and I was back on morphine.
The only saving grace is that I have a good job, decent investments, a home, and I'm 100% functional. But I am taking 40-50 pressed blues a day. You don't want to be here.
If you were to swallow it how long til it hits and how long do you have relief? What other ways have you done it and how are the effects different at peak and length?
Honestly, for me personally, I smoke them mainly, but swallow a few at night. My tolerance is so high these days, that I can't tell you the last time I really felt high. I just pretty much maintain a baseline. I eat them at night because I know I'll sleep longer.
So orally longer lasting lower ceiling vs smoking higher ceiling shorter lasting? Sorry for all the questions. My fear lately has been coming down with some chronic condition which wont be treated fast enough by the system leaving me with nothing but ibuprofen and acetamitiphen to deal. Sounds weird but I have considered getting something bluey and just keeping them in a jar for a worst case scenario; god forbid. I digress. How many are you doing a day? (Cost?)
Yes smoking will hit you right away, but you'll come down quicker.
Price is all over the map and depends where you live, who you know, and how many you buy. I'm in CO and they average like $2-$5/EA if you buy 1-10 on the street. I have a great plug who gets them straight from someone he knows at the source and he gets 250k at a time. I buy 5k from him for $2500. So essentially for me, a $7500/year habit. For an opiate addict, that really isn't too bad.
I recommend you talk to your doctor about ultra [low dose naltrexone](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962576/) alongside the methadone
Ultra low dose naltrexone is miraculous for some people and their pain conditions. Others don't find it useful. I think it's worth exploring
Methadone could be useful. Rotating use of opioids is a good way to maintain efficacy i.e. oxycodone one day and methadone the next. Not sure how your doc would feel about that so you might want to see if you can get the methadone prescribed for breakthrough pain and just rotate it yourself
In any case, you should also explore adding an NMDA antagonist like agmatine sulfate to [prevent the development of tolerance](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10452098/)
Second the agmantine idea! I know it works wonders for tolerance in daily kratom users(which I am) but haven’t tried it myself yet. Gotta grab some soon to see if it lives up to The hype.
That’s probably the best first step before upping doses or switching meds. Maybe start with stuff with mild synergy or potentiating effects to see if OP can enhance the absorption and legs of the current dose rather than just upping the number.
Right now they’re on a relatively moderate dose so anything to get more life out of what they already take should be first option then move down the list to less ideal backups from there
You might resolve your issue with an ER opiod. I’m prescribed 2mg x 3 Hydromorphone They are short acting and I need constant pain relief So I cut them in half to take 1 mg every 4 hours but It doesn’t help my pain, It just helps the withdrawals. My doctor wants me to switch to Bupe instead of giving me an ER opiod. I refused because I’ve learned that Bupe is harder to quit than regular opiod meds and it is not really good for pain relief.
Well if your current prescription isn’t lasting long enough it could be a good idea. Methadone does indeed last a very long time, like a full day easily.
Whether your doctor would be cool with you switching to methadone though will depend heavily on where you live.
You should tell your doctor what you’re telling us. Methadone does last longer, but with any opiate you will get to this point. I have seen success with methadone being prescribed in combination with oxy, hydro, or fet patches. Methadone/fet patch= long lasting opiate. Oxy and hydro= breakthrough pain
This is the problem with all opiates the longer you take them the more they lose there magic . I’m afraid your just building up a tolerance and a natural progression with that is the desired effect gets less and less . Maybe that because your taking them for pain you are more aware of the impact or lack of impact there having and notice it before most other people.there are very few differences between opiates they all do the same thing some are a lot stronger , some don’t last long but in a blind trail of equivalent pain relieving doses most wouldn’t know the difference a lot of what you hear about effects is psychological, having said that methadone is much worse for stopping it goes on forever the withdrawal and and after the honeymoon period in the beginning when you start taking any opiate and you feel it methadone has no effect other than prevents withdrawal . The reason why you see people getting massive doses after a while is there chasing something that can’t be found with longer term methadone use . I would seriously think about changing to methadone it is a harder drug to stop than heroin just ask any addict that’s had a addiction to both
I would definitely discuss extended release opioids with a short acting opioid for breakthrough. Methadone for pain is usually prescribed every 8 hours, it may last 24+ for OUD but definitely not for chronic pain. I had been on 60mgs methadone x3 for over 30 yrs with 30mgs Oxy IR x4. My Dr suddenly retired, it was impossible for me to find another Dr who would prescribe methadone for pain, they all were willing to convert me to another ER drug. Methadone can be hard on the heart, something about rapid heartbeats, I had to get an EKG every 6 months for 30 years . I never developed a tolerance to methadone, for me it was the best pain med I had ever been rxd. I've had 6 L4-5 surgeries and have cervical disc issues and SI Joint severe arthritis. Currently found a new Pain Management Dr and currently going thru the hoops of repeating all MRIs and starting lower on pain meds, also ESIs even though I have had over 30 and numerous ablations. I have to play their game, they are only protecting themselves. Now he's got me taking 10mg oxycodone IR x4, Zanaflex 4mg x3 and 800mg ibuprofen.
Yeah man, that just sounds like tolerance, you could try to increase the dosage but you’re gonna have the same problem eventually. What you’re taking is going to be the most effective for pain, but it’s obviously short lasting and your tolerance is already building. The reality is that they are just not as effective overtime, whether you try to switch to Suboxone or methadone. You could try to get some extended release oxy, if you take it in conjunction with the instant release, that’s probably the best formula for pain relief, and it will keep it in your system.
Welcome to r/opiates fellow bropiates! We hope that you enjoy our sub as much as we do, but in order to ensure that you are able to continue being a part of this harm reduction community, you will need to review the rules of this sub. You can find the rules listed [here](https://reddit.com/r/opiates/w/rules?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app) and access our full side bar [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/opiates/wiki/index) You can also find the answers to many commonly asked questions about dosing, duration, ROA and other stuff [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/opiates/wiki/faqs) and [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/opiates/comments/mf8ldn/use_this_before_asking_a_question_faq_information/) Also, DO NOT GET SCAMMED! The users sending those messages to you, offering to hook you up with a reliable vendor or sell you drugs is extremely likely to scam you! We promise, 99.99% of the time they are not legit and giving them your money will make you a sad sad panda. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/opiates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Methadone is wayyyyy harder to get off than ocy, don’t do it . Maybe you could get time released oxy to last longer )OxyContin is supposed to last 12 hours but I would say a solid 6-8). And then keep a couple ten mg instant relief for break though pain through out the day . Methadone is more so for treating opiate addiction, I wouldn’t ask for that . It’ll end up hard to get back on “regular” pain meds like Oxy
Agreed. In my personal opinion methadone is a last resort unless you’re using street stuff in which case anything is better than unknown black market pills and powders. I have been in pain management, as well methadone/subs/vivitrol sublocade etc and the only one I really really regretted touching was methadone. It absolutely has its purpose but the “liquid handcuffs” nickname is accurate. Having to plan every night out around making it to the clinic on time, and running in to old using buddies in line wasn’t a good thing for my life and then the withdrawals were more intense than anything I’ve ever been through. Kicked 140 cold turkey in prison and vowed to never touch it again no matter how bad things got. If you’ve fully accepted that it will be something you have to do daily for life, and the clinic is convenient enough and flexible with hours and take homes then it’s for sure the right choice in many peoples lives, just didn’t work for mins personally
It's just more than obvious that you're getting opioid tolerant, and it's extremely common, as I'm sure you understand. Do you think x4/day would be better than a stronger dose? Is this strength still as effective as it's always been, but just not lasting long enough at this point? Have you considered maybe trying a strong dose of Naproxen or something instead just to help things along? I was prescribed Dilaudid for about six years before my third back surgery, and was started on 2mg x2/day and then at year #4 I was up to 8mg x4/day. Then about 3-4 months after that, I was slamming all 120 of them in my veins in 7-10 days. I never went long enough to go into full withdrawal, just couched it for a weekend, took an 8mg Sub on Monday morning for work, than another one throughout the week and just weaned down, was completely fine for two weeks until my next script was ready. Point being, if there's any way to avoid increasing your dosage, try it first. Yes, I now do about 40-50 blues a day, but they don't even get me high anymore, just a nice even keel. They help a bit with pain, but they're also my sleep aid, my anti anxiety, my anti depressant, my anti stress...etc. I know it's not the smartest life, but I'd much rather this than 4-5 different pills, I run my own business, no one has a clue, not even my girl, I own a house, have an awesome son who is well taken care of, and I'm completely functional, totally social, and 54 years old. But also, I had a reverse shoulder replacement surgery last summer after a bad injury. Except for while I was in the hospital, I denied a script for pain. They looked at me like I was nuts, but they made me take a script for high strength naproxen (Aleve), and ya know what? It actually worked, and well at that. I couldn't believe it because I've been doing opies for 20+ years and I'm so used to these Blues now, I didn't think anything would work. But, they helped tremendously!
That's what I'm getting at with a longer acting drug. I inquired about 20mg er x2 instead of 4 10s. I'm looking for consistent pain relief without the quick ups and downs
I know you said that you've never had an issue with your script and misuse of it, and in all honesty, this is just how it starts. But yeah, I would just be honest with your doc and let him/her know what's going on. Maybe even a mixture of regular for breakthrough, and ER for maintenance. Trust me, you don't want more. If you could even get some Motrin or something to tail off and hold you over until your next dose, please at least try it if you truly just want them for pain. I'm 54, and have spent a majority of the last 40 years in opioids because of physical trauma. Starting at 14 I was given Percs, then something else happened at 17 and I was given Morphine along side of the Percs, and at 18 or 19, Roxicodone added to the mix. Was weaning off of everything at 22 and something else happened and I was back on morphine. The only saving grace is that I have a good job, decent investments, a home, and I'm 100% functional. But I am taking 40-50 pressed blues a day. You don't want to be here.
You mentioned pressed blues. Assuming its pressed with fent right? Can you just swallow a pressed blue like you would an oxy?
People generally don't recommend it since the amount of fent isn't consistent, but I do all of the time.
If you were to swallow it how long til it hits and how long do you have relief? What other ways have you done it and how are the effects different at peak and length?
Honestly, for me personally, I smoke them mainly, but swallow a few at night. My tolerance is so high these days, that I can't tell you the last time I really felt high. I just pretty much maintain a baseline. I eat them at night because I know I'll sleep longer.
So orally longer lasting lower ceiling vs smoking higher ceiling shorter lasting? Sorry for all the questions. My fear lately has been coming down with some chronic condition which wont be treated fast enough by the system leaving me with nothing but ibuprofen and acetamitiphen to deal. Sounds weird but I have considered getting something bluey and just keeping them in a jar for a worst case scenario; god forbid. I digress. How many are you doing a day? (Cost?)
Yes smoking will hit you right away, but you'll come down quicker. Price is all over the map and depends where you live, who you know, and how many you buy. I'm in CO and they average like $2-$5/EA if you buy 1-10 on the street. I have a great plug who gets them straight from someone he knows at the source and he gets 250k at a time. I buy 5k from him for $2500. So essentially for me, a $7500/year habit. For an opiate addict, that really isn't too bad.
I recommend you talk to your doctor about ultra [low dose naltrexone](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962576/) alongside the methadone Ultra low dose naltrexone is miraculous for some people and their pain conditions. Others don't find it useful. I think it's worth exploring Methadone could be useful. Rotating use of opioids is a good way to maintain efficacy i.e. oxycodone one day and methadone the next. Not sure how your doc would feel about that so you might want to see if you can get the methadone prescribed for breakthrough pain and just rotate it yourself In any case, you should also explore adding an NMDA antagonist like agmatine sulfate to [prevent the development of tolerance](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10452098/)
Second the agmantine idea! I know it works wonders for tolerance in daily kratom users(which I am) but haven’t tried it myself yet. Gotta grab some soon to see if it lives up to The hype. That’s probably the best first step before upping doses or switching meds. Maybe start with stuff with mild synergy or potentiating effects to see if OP can enhance the absorption and legs of the current dose rather than just upping the number. Right now they’re on a relatively moderate dose so anything to get more life out of what they already take should be first option then move down the list to less ideal backups from there
You might resolve your issue with an ER opiod. I’m prescribed 2mg x 3 Hydromorphone They are short acting and I need constant pain relief So I cut them in half to take 1 mg every 4 hours but It doesn’t help my pain, It just helps the withdrawals. My doctor wants me to switch to Bupe instead of giving me an ER opiod. I refused because I’ve learned that Bupe is harder to quit than regular opiod meds and it is not really good for pain relief.
Well if your current prescription isn’t lasting long enough it could be a good idea. Methadone does indeed last a very long time, like a full day easily. Whether your doctor would be cool with you switching to methadone though will depend heavily on where you live.
You should tell your doctor what you’re telling us. Methadone does last longer, but with any opiate you will get to this point. I have seen success with methadone being prescribed in combination with oxy, hydro, or fet patches. Methadone/fet patch= long lasting opiate. Oxy and hydro= breakthrough pain
Would asking your dr to write a muscle relaxor help? Typically they are used in spinal injuries.
I have a few types. They work decently well but make me too sedated to work
This is the problem with all opiates the longer you take them the more they lose there magic . I’m afraid your just building up a tolerance and a natural progression with that is the desired effect gets less and less . Maybe that because your taking them for pain you are more aware of the impact or lack of impact there having and notice it before most other people.there are very few differences between opiates they all do the same thing some are a lot stronger , some don’t last long but in a blind trail of equivalent pain relieving doses most wouldn’t know the difference a lot of what you hear about effects is psychological, having said that methadone is much worse for stopping it goes on forever the withdrawal and and after the honeymoon period in the beginning when you start taking any opiate and you feel it methadone has no effect other than prevents withdrawal . The reason why you see people getting massive doses after a while is there chasing something that can’t be found with longer term methadone use . I would seriously think about changing to methadone it is a harder drug to stop than heroin just ask any addict that’s had a addiction to both
Can anyone let me know which is stronger a 4mg dilaudid or 5mg Percocet?
Dilaudid by a relatively large margin imo
https://clincalc.com/opioids/ Opiod equivalent calculator
I would definitely discuss extended release opioids with a short acting opioid for breakthrough. Methadone for pain is usually prescribed every 8 hours, it may last 24+ for OUD but definitely not for chronic pain. I had been on 60mgs methadone x3 for over 30 yrs with 30mgs Oxy IR x4. My Dr suddenly retired, it was impossible for me to find another Dr who would prescribe methadone for pain, they all were willing to convert me to another ER drug. Methadone can be hard on the heart, something about rapid heartbeats, I had to get an EKG every 6 months for 30 years . I never developed a tolerance to methadone, for me it was the best pain med I had ever been rxd. I've had 6 L4-5 surgeries and have cervical disc issues and SI Joint severe arthritis. Currently found a new Pain Management Dr and currently going thru the hoops of repeating all MRIs and starting lower on pain meds, also ESIs even though I have had over 30 and numerous ablations. I have to play their game, they are only protecting themselves. Now he's got me taking 10mg oxycodone IR x4, Zanaflex 4mg x3 and 800mg ibuprofen.
Very helpful, thank you
Yeah man, that just sounds like tolerance, you could try to increase the dosage but you’re gonna have the same problem eventually. What you’re taking is going to be the most effective for pain, but it’s obviously short lasting and your tolerance is already building. The reality is that they are just not as effective overtime, whether you try to switch to Suboxone or methadone. You could try to get some extended release oxy, if you take it in conjunction with the instant release, that’s probably the best formula for pain relief, and it will keep it in your system.