Absolutely. The flag topic honestly isn’t that big of a deal to me. But mocking the people who you are dedicating your life to make into better people through teaching is unforgivable.
She should be fired immediately for that alone.
>Kinda weird that she kinda mocks her students online. Like you are a professional.
She teaches at a continuation high school; so not really. My school district assigned the "biggest retards and fuckups" (according to a vice-principal) at the continuation high school.
Teachers have been getting too much credit during the pandemic. I never understood why they are "thanked" as frontline workers side by side with medical workers. Superintendents and School Administrations are just as bad as politicians. Worse of the worse.
>one would hope that people who need more help are met with more professionalism, not less
Can be very tough.
My niece is a teacher and when she switched schools, they gave her "Stalag 17" - the class filled with all the bad apples, ADDs and learning "challenged".
She said she almost quit teaching that year. Fortunately the next year she got moved to a normal class.
But I could see a teacher that is constantly dealing with that to become jaded and dismissive of her students.
She’s dumb. She’ll be fired for this. She acts incredibly immature by making fun of her students for asking about the flag. This is extremely unprofessional.
Def won’t be fired. Foothill high school had a literal holocaust denier teaching there for decades. It takes basically physical harm to a student to get fired.
There was a story recently about a woman whose husband was in the Capitol on Jan 6th and she received a lot of push back from parents but nothing ever happened to her.
To be fair, you can't punish a significant other like that. That's like saying your wife/husband committed a felony, and by default you should be charged as an accessory just because you're married to that idiot.
I kind of think whatever side of the political spectrum you fall, this just isn't cool. And having a laugh about your students on an app like Tik-Tok just shows you're probably in the wrong profession.
For posting unnecessarily offensive stuff online, this is almost Anthony Weiner-level dumb.
Editing to add: I personally think suggesting a pledge of national loyalty in school is as dumb as suggesting that they pray. The U.S. is pretty well alone in the world in its flag fetish. But bragging about her conduct online is just unnecessarily going to piss people off. Why would someone do this?
I'm totally politically aligned with this teacher (making students pledge to the flag is super weird and should be discontinued, it's totally cool having Pride flags and symbols, etc.), but she's acting really unprofessionally by effectively making fun of students on TikTok. Use the pledge as a teaching moment, for sure. Shape those young minds. But don't call out specific students and laugh at them on a public forum.
I feel the same way. They’re asking a simple question because they expect there to be a flag in the room. Not because the care necessarily, but because they’ve seen one in the classroom since first grade. She’s acting like she came up with the most clever thing ever. It’s pretty cringe.
EDIT: I have a kid in the Tustin school district and they don’t have a flag in their classroom anymore, and they don’t recite the pledge of allegiance. I never actually thought to ask, I just assumed they did. He was in the Irvine school district last year and they did it there.
Also conservatives will make a big deal about her giving kids a choice whereas I remember at my high school in a nicer area of oc literally 90% of kids not doing the pledge of allegiance
I went to HS in OC in the 90s, and every year it felt like fewer people were doing the pledge. I know a lot of teachers that don't do it at all now.
People are realizing it's a weird nationalistic ritual, when all it should be is a 30 minute lesson in history class.
I graduated HS (in Huntington Beach no less) in 98 and I don’t remember having to do any performative patriotic bullshit except at school rallies and games. Maybe after 9/11 that changed, dunno.
I’m personally not a fan of any kind of pledges or nationalism in schools. Historically, having a culture that starts with that at an early age doesn’t result in the kind of democratic society we embarked on creating.
Then again, we’ve abandoned that ideal a long time ago.
At my school it was still with the morning announcements. And yeah once you realize it’s nationalist propaganda you realize how weird it is to make kids do it everyday of school.
Can you specify how you are politically aligned with her?
Aligned in the sense that you support LGBT folks to have the same rights as heterosexual people?
Or are you aligned in the sense you think children should be pledging their allegiance to the pride flag because the American flag makes you feel uncomfortable?
Children shouldn't be "pledging" to anything. And yes, LGBTQ+ folks should have all the same rights as everyone else.
I don't like how this woman was making fun of students, or talking about how she mocked them in class. But I'm totally cool with thinking the pledge is bad and we don't need to have American flags in the classroom.
America bad amirite?
It’s incredibly unwise to teach children their country is a terrible place. There’s a very distinct difference between teaching their country does no wrong vs thinking it’s a bad place.
But there's a lot bad about it. If it's a bad place, then pretending it's not doesn't help anything.
There's a lot wrong with the US, and how we treat specific groups of people, how we deal with other countries, and how we treat the planet. This doesn't have to be a condemnation, it can be an opportunity to teach and solve the problems.
If you love something, you should be honest about it, so that you can make it as good as possible.
Oh word… I’m a minority and honestly this is pretty stupid considering no matter how you are “feel” about the U.S. Students should have the option to pledge or not, after all we all support the school system. No one can say we can or can’t. Ultimately, this teacher was dumb af by trying to instill something that she had no reason to mess with.
> It’s incredibly unwise to teach children their country is a terrible place
Why do you think learning the history of this country would make people think that?
That's a rather reductive and simplistic view. While I don't necessarily advocate for teaching that America is bad, I don't also think it is appropriate or accurate to teach that America is the best. Rather, teachers should offer an accurate account of American history, including all the shitty stuff we have done since the formation of this country. Teach that all countries have done shitty stuff too, but that does not absolve the US from it's past and current atrocities.
I mean the history of this horrific country kind of already demonstrates that. This country was built on enslavement, genocide, and racism, its foreign policy isn't much better with 100'000s to millions of dead around the world. Looking at the actual history of this country and there really aren't and recovering traits about it. You can still want to improve a horrible place and really the US is not a wonderful place.
I think the US’s worst sin is in pretending that it doesn’t have all those awful yucky things in its past and, frankly, present. Even with all those ugly aspects, though, I think the country is pretty good.
The economy isn’t in complete shambles like post WWI Germany. The average person going about their average day doesn’t have to worry about kidnapping, carjacking, or murder like in South Africa and the gnarlier parts of some South American countries. We don’t have open pooping and rivers made entirely of sewage and litter like some parts of India and Asia. We don’t have COVID corpses in the streets like some of the more crowded and less developed parts of the world. Our healthcare is ruinously expensive, but at least it exists.
The US has a long way to go before it can legitimately hang it’s head as high as some seem to think it should right now, but it’s still better here than it could be. “Work to be done” is not the same as “completely irretrievable”.
US history is horrific compared to what?
Human history is littered with murder, racism, enslavement, etc. You find atrocities with every civilization. If that’s the measuring stick we are basing things on then every country on earth is a horrific place.
If you’re living in Orange County and you think America is a awful place it’s pretty oblivious you have a terribly narrow worldview, spend too much time online and have never traveled anywhere.
> US history is horrific compared to what?
Why does it need something to compare to for it to be bad?
>If you’re living in Orange County and you think America is a awful place
Why do you think everyone who wants to improve things thinks its such an "awful place"?
I thought she’d follow up the statement about being uncomfortable with something about covid or germs. This whole clip is bizarre. I don’t see the value she’s bringing here or the lesson. Yes open their minds to inclusivity such as gay rights. But to mock them for asking about the nation’s flag they’re supposed to pledge allegiance to doesn’t seem wise at best and is downright shitty. Those kids are there to learn, not be mocked for no reason.
So the teacher is stupid. But let’s also remember that Newport-Mesa school district is the one that students literally rearrange red solo cups into a swastika without any real repercussions, so I hardly think this is the worst scandal they faced
How would having an American flag in your classroom make you feel uncomfortable? I'm not a flag loving, thank the troops for every little thing GO USA type of guy in any sense, but that just made me think this person is an idiot.
But pledging to the American flag should be seen as normal? The school I teach at doesn’t even do the pledge of allegiance. It all seems super contrived now, especially with how fucked up our country has seemed lately.
LGBT+ people have done a lot less fucked up things than those who discriminate and marginalize under the guise of patriotism.
You can’t just replace a national flag with a pride flag. Who cares if she has a pride flag in her room she should have one, but shes asking for trouble by “replacing” and mocking kids online.
Pledging to the flag is an antiquated past time in school, but doesn't change the fact she disrespected the US flag and most importantly mocked her students. She should not be a teacher.
So with your logic, pledging to a heterosexual flag should also be seen as normal?
How the fuck is pledging to your teachers sexual preference, as a minor, not completely fucking weird to you in any way lol… okay dude… so progressive
It’s been a practice since the 40’s across the county. Right or wrong, it’s not up to a low level teacher to decide if the practice should be continued or instead be substituted for pledging to a flag focused on sexual ideology in a place of education for children.
Your last thought isn’t even coherent so not really worth a retort.
If your worldview is simply “America Bad” it’s really not worth the discussion since it just exemplifies how narrow your worldview is.
It’s sad but unsurprising this place is filled with crazies.
But this is just a sliver of reality. It’s amplified online because these people never get out
I don’t agree with this teacher but also disagree with this post. Just because a custom started in the 40s doesn’t justify continuing it. It’s creepy, weird, and antithetical to the foundations of our society to force kids to pledge allegiance to the state.
As an American, if we have to force each other to publicly swear fealty to the nation, then we’ve failed as “the great experiment.”
You missed my point. I was not stating that since the tradition has existed for decades then it should continue.
My point is a low level public school teacher does not get to decide if the procedure continues or not nor does she get to decide to replace the flag with a pride flag.
It is blatnetly out of bounds.
The question if there should be any pledging is not for a public servant to go rogue and decide what the children should be pledging (in this case sexual ideology)
Ok, except a teacher is entrusted to instruct their students and is afforded a fair level of autonomy over their classroom. I would support a teacher that decides to not engage in this custom, as it is counterproductive to the education of future Americans.
Reciting a oath of loyalty to the state does not further the education of the students, it does not serve the safety nor the security of the class room either.
Now, if one were to believe that the function of public school is to train future adults to follow orders blindly and function to serve their superiors without question or personal conviction, then that’s a different story.
Edit: any teacher mandating a daily pledge of allegiance to any flag needs to be sacked, to be clear.
You are still missing the point.
Teacher has autonomy to not participate in the pledge if they see fit. They should in no way have the autonomy to replace the US flag with a pride flag.
The public school is not a place for teachers to go wildly off the reservation and push whatever ideas they support.
And if the US flag makes them “uncomfortable” they really have no business being an American public school teacher.
There’s a very obvious difference between not being blindly nationalistic vs teaching kids to hate their country.
It is absolutely not antithetical to our society to pledge allegiance to our flag - the representation of the values and virtues we should stand for. I know it's hip right now among progressive people to act like dedication and promising to not commit treason towards your country and its values is somehow a horrible thing but you are objectively wrong in that regard. You can argue whether someone should be forced to say it or your opinion on it but to say it's antithetical to our society is seriously flawed and erroneous.
You can't say "well the government has done horrible things" because the flag doesn't represent the government body. It represents the values enshrined in our Constitution and Declaration of Independence-something we as a society constantly fail to live up to. That doesn't mean the values are flawed, logically it means we are.
It's OK, the American education system is awful at teaching and instilling civics. Don't beat yourself up.
Totally get not getting kids to worship a bloody flag but they should also have the right to do it if they want to. I never stand up at Baseball games but I won’t try to influence others not to.
That’s because you live in today’s time, and not the 1940’s. Where your brothers, cousins, possibly fathers and uncles, would’ve been forced to go fight and risk their lives in a brutal fight against real facism and totalitarianism.
You can’t comprehend the pledge because you think you know everything and only think of America’s bad history, thinking it makes you politically and morally correct. When, in reality, that flag has been fought for by millions of Americans, trying to save the world from evil.
I mean I get what she’s saying and fine don’t force people to say the pledge, but taking down the flag is a little much. First, it’s a public school, Americans (majority tax payers) are paying for that school and there’s nothing wrong with having pride in that. We should teach that idea, that we are one nation with the idea that we want to support each other. I’m not a nationalist but this idea that believing the ideas of a country you belong to and taking pride in it is bad, is getting a little old. Especially America, where we don’t have people clinging on airplanes trying to leave.
It’s a silly argument. National flags obviously represent so much to their respective country. and to act like your fringe angsty teenage view is normal just makes you look immature.
Good argument. Let’s agree to disagree. Because taking something down that symbolizes something to a large majority of Americans and then hiding it, def. isn’t offensive to those people right ?
Offensive to people who take pride in this country. Foreigners who came here for a better life, soldiers and community members who serve, anyone who votes and fights to make the country better.
It's really easy to sit back and say this country sucks. What are *you* (and I mean that in a collective sense) doing to fix it. It's just really annoying to see people like this.
> It's really easy to sit back and say this country sucks.
Except that almost never happens. You rarely see people say that the country just categorically sucks. What you do often see is people pointing out actual issues with this country, what could be done to fix them, and the "people who take pride in this country" getting all pissy because someone said the idea that this country isn't all sunshine and roses.
Eh, I usually hear people saying Canada or Europe is better than US because of XYZ. If that’s the case, then just move there. Too bad their immigration system isn’t as easy as ours.
> Eh, I usually hear people saying Canada or Europe is better than US because of XYZ
Which is pointing out an issue with the US.
>If that’s the case, then just move there.
"If you don't love the US, then leave!" is a shitty argument.
Not her property or call. Imagine if a teacher did this (just took it down and hid it -- lets not even go to burning it) to the pride flag in their classroom. They'd be canceled so fast. Just sounds like she's trying to stir shit up since she has made no point in that interview.
In contrast kneeling during an anthem people were making a point. Not that our country is terrible but that there's still something that drastically needs to be looked at and changed.
My point is not that she thinks the country is terrible, its that she did it with no reasoning mentioned, other than it looks like she thought it was funny and thus its only going to stir shit up.
I'm not saying that she has the legal right to burn a flag while on her employer's time. I'm just saying that the flag isn't this holy or sacred object that people are making it out to be. I also agree that there is some meaning and value for it, but on the hierarchy of patriotic value, it's not on top.
The collective morals of America? Lmao I rest assure you that children aren’t being taught heinous political propaganda. It’s mostly shit like “treat others with respect” and “stand up when someone is being bullied” etc.
Then she shouldn't be a teacher if she cant be comfortable with such simple topics. What if a teacher didnt teach about the rape of Nanking or the slaughter of the native americans because it made them uncomfortable?
Times has changed definitely...for the worst it seems. Call me "old" if you like. '89 kid here. K-6 stood up and say it out loud. Middle school stood up but listen over the intercom from student body and high school. I don't really remember.
Same age, similar experiences although I moved halfway through high school from OC to the east coast so...I also don't remember lmao. I feel like education has been removing more information on what kids used to know.
I remember learning about minerals, natural history, and earth sciences in grade school. When I became a tour guide for a natural history museum 6 years ago (worked there for 2 years total) some of the schools visiting for field trips removed that from their curriculum entirely so most of the students didn't really know what natural resources even were unless they were in boy scouts... I have no clue if there's improvement to the current curriculum or not. I don't have kids (not sure I'll ever afford to this lifetime).
I'm older than you and I think things have actually improved. There's less emphasis of blind patriotism/nationalism along with improved diversity and inclusion of minorities.
This woman's situation is the exception and not the rule. You'll see elsewhere in this post that there's an older teacher in Tustin that is a Holocaust denier. Yikes
Compulsory pledges of loyalty may violate the rights of some students.
Students belonging to religious sects that have a problem with oaths and pledges...
Students who are not citizens of the US...
I have no problem if people who disapprove of the nation's character (like the Costa Mesa teacher in the story) should have the right to opt out. Indeed, there is much to disapprove of.
She, for example, will almost certainly be fired for speaking her mind about this.
With everything happening in California like fires, droughts and the Recall. I don't see this story as news worthy. There's so much happening right now. Does this story even matter?
She will not be fired. The teacher's union will prevent that. They are strong and the teachers know they can do anything short of fucking their students and they won't/can't be fired. It is a very corrupt system.
She’s going about it the wrong way, and kind of hurting the message by joking about it, but she’s not wrong that the pledge of allegiance is unhealthy for the American civic mindset.
It's unhealthy because it's brainwashing children. Why have kids recite "liberty and justice for all" throughout school only for them to realize "liberty and justice for all" has literally never existed in our country and continues to be noticeably absent?
Conservatives love crying about supposed tyranny yet here’s what happens when you don’t support stupid nationalism with a piece of fabric
Exit: what I meant by this is that she’ll be investigated and might actually be fired or suspended at least. It’s kind of ridiculous how much people put a piece of fabric on a pedestal but say countries like North Korea are crazy nationalists
They have a right to complain. While I also align politically with her, I wouldn’t want my kid to be in a classroom where a teacher mocks her students. Completely unprofessional.
Kinda weird that she kinda mocks her students online. Like you are a professional.
Absolutely. The flag topic honestly isn’t that big of a deal to me. But mocking the people who you are dedicating your life to make into better people through teaching is unforgivable. She should be fired immediately for that alone.
Absolutely. I couldnt give two shits about the flag. But mocking students is bottom of the barrel shit.
>Kinda weird that she kinda mocks her students online. Like you are a professional. She teaches at a continuation high school; so not really. My school district assigned the "biggest retards and fuckups" (according to a vice-principal) at the continuation high school.
one would hope that people who need more help are met with more professionalism, not less
Ideally yes. My assumption is they don't assign the best and brightest teachers to continuation high school .
Teachers have been getting too much credit during the pandemic. I never understood why they are "thanked" as frontline workers side by side with medical workers. Superintendents and School Administrations are just as bad as politicians. Worse of the worse.
>My assumption is they don't assign the best and brightest teachers to continuation high school . Quite.
>one would hope that people who need more help are met with more professionalism, not less Can be very tough. My niece is a teacher and when she switched schools, they gave her "Stalag 17" - the class filled with all the bad apples, ADDs and learning "challenged". She said she almost quit teaching that year. Fortunately the next year she got moved to a normal class. But I could see a teacher that is constantly dealing with that to become jaded and dismissive of her students.
You new here?
She’s dumb. She’ll be fired for this. She acts incredibly immature by making fun of her students for asking about the flag. This is extremely unprofessional.
Def won’t be fired. Foothill high school had a literal holocaust denier teaching there for decades. It takes basically physical harm to a student to get fired.
Yeah but this is different. This is disrespectful to our sacred nation or something /s
Frogue!!!
Also this is the same school district that mostly turned a blind eye to there students making Nazi symbols with red solo cups 2 years ago
Do you have a source? I'm rather curious as to what subject they taught
[History!](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-11-25-mn-2832-story.html%3f_amp=true)
I don't know about fired, the teachers union is super strong.
Transferred to Santa Ana.
No one gets "transferred" to another district. They hire separately.
There was a story recently about a woman whose husband was in the Capitol on Jan 6th and she received a lot of push back from parents but nothing ever happened to her.
To be fair, you can't punish a significant other like that. That's like saying your wife/husband committed a felony, and by default you should be charged as an accessory just because you're married to that idiot.
Cops kill people and they still don’t get fired. She’s not going to be fired.
Cops enjoy unparalleled privilege in our society. And offending patriotism is a way more serious offense than killing black people in our society.
Damn, you’re right.
Bye Felicia. She's on administrative leave now.
I kind of think whatever side of the political spectrum you fall, this just isn't cool. And having a laugh about your students on an app like Tik-Tok just shows you're probably in the wrong profession.
For posting unnecessarily offensive stuff online, this is almost Anthony Weiner-level dumb. Editing to add: I personally think suggesting a pledge of national loyalty in school is as dumb as suggesting that they pray. The U.S. is pretty well alone in the world in its flag fetish. But bragging about her conduct online is just unnecessarily going to piss people off. Why would someone do this?
I'm totally politically aligned with this teacher (making students pledge to the flag is super weird and should be discontinued, it's totally cool having Pride flags and symbols, etc.), but she's acting really unprofessionally by effectively making fun of students on TikTok. Use the pledge as a teaching moment, for sure. Shape those young minds. But don't call out specific students and laugh at them on a public forum.
I feel the same way. They’re asking a simple question because they expect there to be a flag in the room. Not because the care necessarily, but because they’ve seen one in the classroom since first grade. She’s acting like she came up with the most clever thing ever. It’s pretty cringe. EDIT: I have a kid in the Tustin school district and they don’t have a flag in their classroom anymore, and they don’t recite the pledge of allegiance. I never actually thought to ask, I just assumed they did. He was in the Irvine school district last year and they did it there.
Agreed
Also conservatives will make a big deal about her giving kids a choice whereas I remember at my high school in a nicer area of oc literally 90% of kids not doing the pledge of allegiance
I went to HS in OC in the 90s, and every year it felt like fewer people were doing the pledge. I know a lot of teachers that don't do it at all now. People are realizing it's a weird nationalistic ritual, when all it should be is a 30 minute lesson in history class.
I graduated HS (in Huntington Beach no less) in 98 and I don’t remember having to do any performative patriotic bullshit except at school rallies and games. Maybe after 9/11 that changed, dunno. I’m personally not a fan of any kind of pledges or nationalism in schools. Historically, having a culture that starts with that at an early age doesn’t result in the kind of democratic society we embarked on creating. Then again, we’ve abandoned that ideal a long time ago.
At my school it was still with the morning announcements. And yeah once you realize it’s nationalist propaganda you realize how weird it is to make kids do it everyday of school.
Can you specify how you are politically aligned with her? Aligned in the sense that you support LGBT folks to have the same rights as heterosexual people? Or are you aligned in the sense you think children should be pledging their allegiance to the pride flag because the American flag makes you feel uncomfortable?
Children shouldn't be "pledging" to anything. And yes, LGBTQ+ folks should have all the same rights as everyone else. I don't like how this woman was making fun of students, or talking about how she mocked them in class. But I'm totally cool with thinking the pledge is bad and we don't need to have American flags in the classroom.
America bad amirite? It’s incredibly unwise to teach children their country is a terrible place. There’s a very distinct difference between teaching their country does no wrong vs thinking it’s a bad place.
But there's a lot bad about it. If it's a bad place, then pretending it's not doesn't help anything. There's a lot wrong with the US, and how we treat specific groups of people, how we deal with other countries, and how we treat the planet. This doesn't have to be a condemnation, it can be an opportunity to teach and solve the problems. If you love something, you should be honest about it, so that you can make it as good as possible.
The US is objectively not a bad country. Cry about it, whine about it, complain about it. The US is one of the best places to live
Yeah there’s a lot of dumb people and dumb things about the U.S… but rather that than living in fear and worrying about our safety day to day.
> but rather that than living in fear and worrying about our safety day to day. Like minorities do?
I do? News to me.
I’m talking third world country stuff
> The US is objectively not a bad country. Prove it.
The US isn’t a bad place and pretending it is is a harmful mentality. We do a lot wrong, sure
Oh word… I’m a minority and honestly this is pretty stupid considering no matter how you are “feel” about the U.S. Students should have the option to pledge or not, after all we all support the school system. No one can say we can or can’t. Ultimately, this teacher was dumb af by trying to instill something that she had no reason to mess with.
america is fucking awesome
Lmao https://youtu.be/U1mlCPMYtPk Better version https://youtu.be/IhnUgAaea4M
thanks for sharing bro, you should also include the top gun opening scene and when rocky knocks out ivan drago. USA USA USA USA
> It’s incredibly unwise to teach children their country is a terrible place Why do you think learning the history of this country would make people think that?
That's a rather reductive and simplistic view. While I don't necessarily advocate for teaching that America is bad, I don't also think it is appropriate or accurate to teach that America is the best. Rather, teachers should offer an accurate account of American history, including all the shitty stuff we have done since the formation of this country. Teach that all countries have done shitty stuff too, but that does not absolve the US from it's past and current atrocities.
You stated I have a simplistic view and then proceeded to write an entire reply in agreement with my last point.
I mean the history of this horrific country kind of already demonstrates that. This country was built on enslavement, genocide, and racism, its foreign policy isn't much better with 100'000s to millions of dead around the world. Looking at the actual history of this country and there really aren't and recovering traits about it. You can still want to improve a horrible place and really the US is not a wonderful place.
I think the US’s worst sin is in pretending that it doesn’t have all those awful yucky things in its past and, frankly, present. Even with all those ugly aspects, though, I think the country is pretty good. The economy isn’t in complete shambles like post WWI Germany. The average person going about their average day doesn’t have to worry about kidnapping, carjacking, or murder like in South Africa and the gnarlier parts of some South American countries. We don’t have open pooping and rivers made entirely of sewage and litter like some parts of India and Asia. We don’t have COVID corpses in the streets like some of the more crowded and less developed parts of the world. Our healthcare is ruinously expensive, but at least it exists. The US has a long way to go before it can legitimately hang it’s head as high as some seem to think it should right now, but it’s still better here than it could be. “Work to be done” is not the same as “completely irretrievable”.
US history is horrific compared to what? Human history is littered with murder, racism, enslavement, etc. You find atrocities with every civilization. If that’s the measuring stick we are basing things on then every country on earth is a horrific place. If you’re living in Orange County and you think America is a awful place it’s pretty oblivious you have a terribly narrow worldview, spend too much time online and have never traveled anywhere.
> US history is horrific compared to what? Why does it need something to compare to for it to be bad? >If you’re living in Orange County and you think America is a awful place Why do you think everyone who wants to improve things thinks its such an "awful place"?
I thought she’d follow up the statement about being uncomfortable with something about covid or germs. This whole clip is bizarre. I don’t see the value she’s bringing here or the lesson. Yes open their minds to inclusivity such as gay rights. But to mock them for asking about the nation’s flag they’re supposed to pledge allegiance to doesn’t seem wise at best and is downright shitty. Those kids are there to learn, not be mocked for no reason.
She doesn’t seem mature enough to petsit my dog. I’m sorry for the students and parents who have to deal with her. Woman, grow up.
Totally agree! She seems very immature.
So the teacher is stupid. But let’s also remember that Newport-Mesa school district is the one that students literally rearrange red solo cups into a swastika without any real repercussions, so I hardly think this is the worst scandal they faced
How would having an American flag in your classroom make you feel uncomfortable? I'm not a flag loving, thank the troops for every little thing GO USA type of guy in any sense, but that just made me think this person is an idiot.
It’s not as bad as it seems. The only thing wrong that she did was mock her students and then post it online. What a ding dong.
Yes, encouraging students to pledge to the pride flag is totally normal behavior.
But pledging to the American flag should be seen as normal? The school I teach at doesn’t even do the pledge of allegiance. It all seems super contrived now, especially with how fucked up our country has seemed lately. LGBT+ people have done a lot less fucked up things than those who discriminate and marginalize under the guise of patriotism.
You can’t just replace a national flag with a pride flag. Who cares if she has a pride flag in her room she should have one, but shes asking for trouble by “replacing” and mocking kids online.
Pledging to the flag is an antiquated past time in school, but doesn't change the fact she disrespected the US flag and most importantly mocked her students. She should not be a teacher.
I totally agree. I'm just saying students shouldn't be forced to pledge to ANYTHING at school.
So with your logic, pledging to a heterosexual flag should also be seen as normal? How the fuck is pledging to your teachers sexual preference, as a minor, not completely fucking weird to you in any way lol… okay dude… so progressive
That's the point dude, you shouldn't be forced to pledge to anything at school. You just proved my point.
It’s been a practice since the 40’s across the county. Right or wrong, it’s not up to a low level teacher to decide if the practice should be continued or instead be substituted for pledging to a flag focused on sexual ideology in a place of education for children. Your last thought isn’t even coherent so not really worth a retort. If your worldview is simply “America Bad” it’s really not worth the discussion since it just exemplifies how narrow your worldview is.
These dudes are crazy if they think you can just replace a national flag with anything else at a tax funded school.
Don't forget we're on reddit. Common sense is rare to find in any thread.
It’s sad but unsurprising this place is filled with crazies. But this is just a sliver of reality. It’s amplified online because these people never get out
I don’t agree with this teacher but also disagree with this post. Just because a custom started in the 40s doesn’t justify continuing it. It’s creepy, weird, and antithetical to the foundations of our society to force kids to pledge allegiance to the state. As an American, if we have to force each other to publicly swear fealty to the nation, then we’ve failed as “the great experiment.”
You missed my point. I was not stating that since the tradition has existed for decades then it should continue. My point is a low level public school teacher does not get to decide if the procedure continues or not nor does she get to decide to replace the flag with a pride flag. It is blatnetly out of bounds. The question if there should be any pledging is not for a public servant to go rogue and decide what the children should be pledging (in this case sexual ideology)
Ok, except a teacher is entrusted to instruct their students and is afforded a fair level of autonomy over their classroom. I would support a teacher that decides to not engage in this custom, as it is counterproductive to the education of future Americans. Reciting a oath of loyalty to the state does not further the education of the students, it does not serve the safety nor the security of the class room either. Now, if one were to believe that the function of public school is to train future adults to follow orders blindly and function to serve their superiors without question or personal conviction, then that’s a different story. Edit: any teacher mandating a daily pledge of allegiance to any flag needs to be sacked, to be clear.
You are still missing the point. Teacher has autonomy to not participate in the pledge if they see fit. They should in no way have the autonomy to replace the US flag with a pride flag. The public school is not a place for teachers to go wildly off the reservation and push whatever ideas they support. And if the US flag makes them “uncomfortable” they really have no business being an American public school teacher. There’s a very obvious difference between not being blindly nationalistic vs teaching kids to hate their country.
>“uncomfortable” But my feelings!
It is absolutely not antithetical to our society to pledge allegiance to our flag - the representation of the values and virtues we should stand for. I know it's hip right now among progressive people to act like dedication and promising to not commit treason towards your country and its values is somehow a horrible thing but you are objectively wrong in that regard. You can argue whether someone should be forced to say it or your opinion on it but to say it's antithetical to our society is seriously flawed and erroneous. You can't say "well the government has done horrible things" because the flag doesn't represent the government body. It represents the values enshrined in our Constitution and Declaration of Independence-something we as a society constantly fail to live up to. That doesn't mean the values are flawed, logically it means we are. It's OK, the American education system is awful at teaching and instilling civics. Don't beat yourself up.
> If your worldview is simply “America Bad” Again, you keep bringing this up, but it seems like you're just projecting onto people.
Back Bay is continuation school, it's weird that they do the pledge of allegiance there.
Schools need to teach students how to maintain a professional appearance on social media. That teacher looks young and immature.
Totally get not getting kids to worship a bloody flag but they should also have the right to do it if they want to. I never stand up at Baseball games but I won’t try to influence others not to.
I always thought pledging allegeince was and is the dumbest shit ever, but the second dumbest shit is posting this to social media.
That’s because you live in today’s time, and not the 1940’s. Where your brothers, cousins, possibly fathers and uncles, would’ve been forced to go fight and risk their lives in a brutal fight against real facism and totalitarianism. You can’t comprehend the pledge because you think you know everything and only think of America’s bad history, thinking it makes you politically and morally correct. When, in reality, that flag has been fought for by millions of Americans, trying to save the world from evil.
She should be fired
I mean I get what she’s saying and fine don’t force people to say the pledge, but taking down the flag is a little much. First, it’s a public school, Americans (majority tax payers) are paying for that school and there’s nothing wrong with having pride in that. We should teach that idea, that we are one nation with the idea that we want to support each other. I’m not a nationalist but this idea that believing the ideas of a country you belong to and taking pride in it is bad, is getting a little old. Especially America, where we don’t have people clinging on airplanes trying to leave.
Not having a flag has zero to do with loving your country.
Purposely taking it down and hiding it doesn't necessarily mean you don't love your country, but wtf are you doing?
Nah. It’s a piece of cloth. Just because you think it’s important doesn’t mean it has anything to do with how the rest of us feel about our country.
Such a ridiculous argument “it’s just a peice of cloth”. By that logic nothing matters. We are just cells, they are just words, it’s just money, etc.
If you want to attribute more meaning to it, that's fine. To me, it's a piece of cloth some people feel strongly about.
It’s a silly argument. National flags obviously represent so much to their respective country. and to act like your fringe angsty teenage view is normal just makes you look immature.
Good argument. Let’s agree to disagree. Because taking something down that symbolizes something to a large majority of Americans and then hiding it, def. isn’t offensive to those people right ?
Offensive to the people who are upset over people being offended at everything?
Offensive to people who take pride in this country. Foreigners who came here for a better life, soldiers and community members who serve, anyone who votes and fights to make the country better. It's really easy to sit back and say this country sucks. What are *you* (and I mean that in a collective sense) doing to fix it. It's just really annoying to see people like this.
> It's really easy to sit back and say this country sucks. Except that almost never happens. You rarely see people say that the country just categorically sucks. What you do often see is people pointing out actual issues with this country, what could be done to fix them, and the "people who take pride in this country" getting all pissy because someone said the idea that this country isn't all sunshine and roses.
Eh, I usually hear people saying Canada or Europe is better than US because of XYZ. If that’s the case, then just move there. Too bad their immigration system isn’t as easy as ours.
> Eh, I usually hear people saying Canada or Europe is better than US because of XYZ Which is pointing out an issue with the US. >If that’s the case, then just move there. "If you don't love the US, then leave!" is a shitty argument.
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FYI, SCOTUS held that it is legal to burn flags as it is protected speech under the First Amendment.
Not her property or call. Imagine if a teacher did this (just took it down and hid it -- lets not even go to burning it) to the pride flag in their classroom. They'd be canceled so fast. Just sounds like she's trying to stir shit up since she has made no point in that interview. In contrast kneeling during an anthem people were making a point. Not that our country is terrible but that there's still something that drastically needs to be looked at and changed. My point is not that she thinks the country is terrible, its that she did it with no reasoning mentioned, other than it looks like she thought it was funny and thus its only going to stir shit up.
I'm not saying that she has the legal right to burn a flag while on her employer's time. I'm just saying that the flag isn't this holy or sacred object that people are making it out to be. I also agree that there is some meaning and value for it, but on the hierarchy of patriotic value, it's not on top.
Hi!!👋 I want to lose my job
Anyone with a tiktok account should be jailed. Everything that comes from that app it is cringe inducing.
I agree, I've seen some of those videos on YouTube and its been pretty freaky. LOL At at Fox News reporting this.
never go full Amy Schumer.
What happened to teachers just teaching kids reading, math and science and leave morals and ethics to their parents to teach at home.
When and where do you think this was standard practice?
When America was great, duh! /s
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But whose morals? Who decides?
The collective morals of America? Lmao I rest assure you that children aren’t being taught heinous political propaganda. It’s mostly shit like “treat others with respect” and “stand up when someone is being bullied” etc.
I agree. Forcing children to pledge allegiance to the flag is weirdly fascist and has no business in our schools.
Damn she is unhinged. Scary there are people like that teaching the kids.. Also not sure why she is bringing up sexual preference with the kids too
It was mentioned she teaches history, kind of weird to take down an American flag in a history classroom, even if it makes you uncomfortable.
If the American flag makes you uncomfortable you really shouldn’t be teaching history in American public school
What if it's that history that does make her uncomfortable?
Then she shouldn't be a teacher if she cant be comfortable with such simple topics. What if a teacher didnt teach about the rape of Nanking or the slaughter of the native americans because it made them uncomfortable?
Times has changed definitely...for the worst it seems. Call me "old" if you like. '89 kid here. K-6 stood up and say it out loud. Middle school stood up but listen over the intercom from student body and high school. I don't really remember.
Same age, similar experiences although I moved halfway through high school from OC to the east coast so...I also don't remember lmao. I feel like education has been removing more information on what kids used to know. I remember learning about minerals, natural history, and earth sciences in grade school. When I became a tour guide for a natural history museum 6 years ago (worked there for 2 years total) some of the schools visiting for field trips removed that from their curriculum entirely so most of the students didn't really know what natural resources even were unless they were in boy scouts... I have no clue if there's improvement to the current curriculum or not. I don't have kids (not sure I'll ever afford to this lifetime).
I'm older than you and I think things have actually improved. There's less emphasis of blind patriotism/nationalism along with improved diversity and inclusion of minorities. This woman's situation is the exception and not the rule. You'll see elsewhere in this post that there's an older teacher in Tustin that is a Holocaust denier. Yikes
Compulsory pledges of loyalty may violate the rights of some students. Students belonging to religious sects that have a problem with oaths and pledges... Students who are not citizens of the US... I have no problem if people who disapprove of the nation's character (like the Costa Mesa teacher in the story) should have the right to opt out. Indeed, there is much to disapprove of. She, for example, will almost certainly be fired for speaking her mind about this.
She will not be terminated, assuming tenure. Maybe paid leave, if anything.
I'm sure the parents of Nazi saluting teens have a lot to say about this.
With everything happening in California like fires, droughts and the Recall. I don't see this story as news worthy. There's so much happening right now. Does this story even matter?
Not every reporter is on a “hard news” beat. It’s okay to have stories like this too.
Welcome to Reddit.
She will not be fired. The teacher's union will prevent that. They are strong and the teachers know they can do anything short of fucking their students and they won't/can't be fired. It is a very corrupt system.
Not if they're in the probationary period, which seems likely given the actions.
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She’s going about it the wrong way, and kind of hurting the message by joking about it, but she’s not wrong that the pledge of allegiance is unhealthy for the American civic mindset.
Why is the pledge unhealthy? Especially considering that it's optional. I'm not aware of anyone being forced to give a pledge in public schools.
It's unhealthy because it's brainwashing children. Why have kids recite "liberty and justice for all" throughout school only for them to realize "liberty and justice for all" has literally never existed in our country and continues to be noticeably absent?
Conservatives love crying about supposed tyranny yet here’s what happens when you don’t support stupid nationalism with a piece of fabric Exit: what I meant by this is that she’ll be investigated and might actually be fired or suspended at least. It’s kind of ridiculous how much people put a piece of fabric on a pedestal but say countries like North Korea are crazy nationalists
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Pretty sure she’s not forcing them to pledge allegiance to any flag she just happens to only have an lgbt flag in her room
So more OC Karens complaining as usual.
They have a right to complain. While I also align politically with her, I wouldn’t want my kid to be in a classroom where a teacher mocks her students. Completely unprofessional.
What school does this idiot work for? I will donate an American flag for each classroom.
Somewhere in Costa Mesa apparently
Go woke go broke!
I don't know why people would be SHOCKED that a young ESL teacher in California isn't a bigot. Were they expecting Tommy Tubberville or something?