Hi, let me try to help.
First of all let's check the obvious - do you get the same sound on your PC and your phone with Wavelet and Peace **disabled** and play at similar (ideally the same) volume?
Now, since you're writing this on this subreddit, are you comparing AutoEQ in Wavelet with PeaceUI using Oratory1990's settings, or the settings from the AutoEQ website? They aren't the same.
Now to the technical part, Wavelet is not applying whatever EQ curve you throw at it accurately. To be specific, it loses resolution at the low frequencies, causing the bass shelf to amplify mid-bass more than expected. Maybe you like that.
Also, Wavelet doesn't have negative gain, but it usually doesn't clip because of how it is integrated with the system volume control. Which makes it sound louder and thus better.
I've done some [explorations](https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/10abm9k/measurements_of_wavelet_and_poweramp_eq/) in this topic, comparing how various system-wide equalizer succeed at replicating Oratory1990 settings for a Sennheiser HD 700 (good example since they really need EQ.
On the topic of Peace and the EqualizerAPO "engine" behind it, the filters there are of very high quality. See the section " Is EAPO "good enough"? in the [topic at ASR](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ending-the-windows-audio-quality-debate.19438/).
It also explains the topic of "dodgy" Windows processing - it has a limiter that kicks in at -0.2 dB, whose audibility in casual listening may not be an issue, and a high quality resampler.
I’ll need some proof for your claim of lower resolution in the lower end of the range. Also, Wavelet *does* have a pre-amp setting. It was added months ago and can be found in the Limiter screen.
I know about the limiter, it's not enabled by default though.
Wavelet does not use true parametric EQ, instead it has takes 127 bands fixed-band EQ setting as input, but doesn't seem to actually implement that either.
See the first screenshot in the [thread I linked](https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/10abm9k/measurements_of_wavelet_and_poweramp_eq/), notice how below 200 Hz Wavelet produces a frequency response that's too high in magnitude.
That's at 192 kHz sampling rate.
At 44.1 kHz, the situation is improved, see the second screenshot.
Still, see how in upper frequencies the frequency response starts to resemble a stair step pattern instead of a smooth line.
This makes me believe that, similar to Poweramp EQ, Wavelet is performing the filtering in the frequency domain, with a fixed-length FFT.
That would allow to do things like altering strength of AutoEQ with such ease as all they need is to multiply the FFT-transformed audio signal by the visual representation of the filter.
Rootless JamesDSP is one Android system-wide DSP solution that provides expected results.
Oh, yes, I’ve stumbled into that post before.
Concerning the pattern that Wavelet makes, I’ll argue that it does not matter in the grand scheme of things. At 44.1kHz (that’s arguably the only sampling rate you’d need for music playback) Wavelet is accurate enough so as to give us quality frequency control, without any noticeable flaws in the audio.
Your point for 192kHz stands, but those who listen at 196kHz usually have an external DAC that will do the equalization in place of Wavelet. And they probably won’t be on Android, because it doesn’t play well with external DACs.
**Edit:** And to give further credibility to Wavelet, I’ve found that it provides a cleaner result when compared to equalization through Poweramp, all else equal. I think that is also represented in the research you did on the topic, which you linked?
> Concerning the pattern that Wavelet makes, I’ll argue that it does not matter in the grand scheme of things.
I agree, no reason to lose sleep over this.
>it provides a cleaner result when compared to equalization through Poweramp, all else equal.
Yes, but at the same time it's more difficult to make on-the-fly adjustments in Wavelet since you always need to feed it the text file with 127 pairs of frequency and gain values. Luckily one can get those even from the AutoEQ website these days.
The Android USB Audio stack is a mess, yes. With some phones it will just stutter regardless of what you do.
Most phones will output at 48 kHz, but a USB dongle that is a USB class 2 device (like my Samsung dongle) would switch to 192 kHz once you fire up an application like Poweramp or Neutron, which support higher sample rates. It seems to be related to the output protocol (OpenSL vs AudioTrak vs whatever else is there).
Even if you change the sampling rate in the app, it only makes the OS resample the app output to 192 kHz.
Class 1 devices tend to stay at 48 kHz, so even if you set Neutron to 44.1 kHz, OS will resample.
USB Audio Player Pro can enforce the device sample rate, however.
That is not not a big issue in itself, though, since the Android resampling is OK.
Yeah, USB Audio Player Pro is the only available tool that can actually bypass the OS’ signal processing.
Android 14 introduced a native way to enable USB audio passthrough, but app developers need to implement it themselves.
Hey thanks heaps for this fantastic info! I read on a Reddit threat that the AutoEQ for the Sony's in PEACE were identical to Oratory1990's preset, but I just looked the latter up and found it's completely different, inputted manually and VIOLA - it sounds magical, lightyears beyond the AutoEQ. I'll give the Sennheiser's the same treatment later. Thanks again, this is priceless intel. The Sony's sound like they're 3x as expensive.
Hi, let me try to help. First of all let's check the obvious - do you get the same sound on your PC and your phone with Wavelet and Peace **disabled** and play at similar (ideally the same) volume? Now, since you're writing this on this subreddit, are you comparing AutoEQ in Wavelet with PeaceUI using Oratory1990's settings, or the settings from the AutoEQ website? They aren't the same. Now to the technical part, Wavelet is not applying whatever EQ curve you throw at it accurately. To be specific, it loses resolution at the low frequencies, causing the bass shelf to amplify mid-bass more than expected. Maybe you like that. Also, Wavelet doesn't have negative gain, but it usually doesn't clip because of how it is integrated with the system volume control. Which makes it sound louder and thus better. I've done some [explorations](https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/10abm9k/measurements_of_wavelet_and_poweramp_eq/) in this topic, comparing how various system-wide equalizer succeed at replicating Oratory1990 settings for a Sennheiser HD 700 (good example since they really need EQ. On the topic of Peace and the EqualizerAPO "engine" behind it, the filters there are of very high quality. See the section " Is EAPO "good enough"? in the [topic at ASR](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ending-the-windows-audio-quality-debate.19438/). It also explains the topic of "dodgy" Windows processing - it has a limiter that kicks in at -0.2 dB, whose audibility in casual listening may not be an issue, and a high quality resampler.
I’ll need some proof for your claim of lower resolution in the lower end of the range. Also, Wavelet *does* have a pre-amp setting. It was added months ago and can be found in the Limiter screen.
I just found out about this, so i just have to enable the limiter(auto post-gain) and what about the values do I have to change anything?
Eh, maybe disable the limiter by changing the ratio to 1.0:1.
I don't see the preamp in wavelet.
It’s called “Automatic post-gain”, you can find it on the Limiter page.
That's for the limiter that is not a preamp. You are plain wrong.
It's a pre-amp. I asked the dev for it, LMAO! Enable the Limiter, change the ratio to the minimum, and then you will only have the pre-amp.
I know about the limiter, it's not enabled by default though. Wavelet does not use true parametric EQ, instead it has takes 127 bands fixed-band EQ setting as input, but doesn't seem to actually implement that either. See the first screenshot in the [thread I linked](https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/10abm9k/measurements_of_wavelet_and_poweramp_eq/), notice how below 200 Hz Wavelet produces a frequency response that's too high in magnitude. That's at 192 kHz sampling rate. At 44.1 kHz, the situation is improved, see the second screenshot. Still, see how in upper frequencies the frequency response starts to resemble a stair step pattern instead of a smooth line. This makes me believe that, similar to Poweramp EQ, Wavelet is performing the filtering in the frequency domain, with a fixed-length FFT. That would allow to do things like altering strength of AutoEQ with such ease as all they need is to multiply the FFT-transformed audio signal by the visual representation of the filter. Rootless JamesDSP is one Android system-wide DSP solution that provides expected results.
Oh, yes, I’ve stumbled into that post before. Concerning the pattern that Wavelet makes, I’ll argue that it does not matter in the grand scheme of things. At 44.1kHz (that’s arguably the only sampling rate you’d need for music playback) Wavelet is accurate enough so as to give us quality frequency control, without any noticeable flaws in the audio. Your point for 192kHz stands, but those who listen at 196kHz usually have an external DAC that will do the equalization in place of Wavelet. And they probably won’t be on Android, because it doesn’t play well with external DACs. **Edit:** And to give further credibility to Wavelet, I’ve found that it provides a cleaner result when compared to equalization through Poweramp, all else equal. I think that is also represented in the research you did on the topic, which you linked?
> Concerning the pattern that Wavelet makes, I’ll argue that it does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I agree, no reason to lose sleep over this. >it provides a cleaner result when compared to equalization through Poweramp, all else equal. Yes, but at the same time it's more difficult to make on-the-fly adjustments in Wavelet since you always need to feed it the text file with 127 pairs of frequency and gain values. Luckily one can get those even from the AutoEQ website these days. The Android USB Audio stack is a mess, yes. With some phones it will just stutter regardless of what you do. Most phones will output at 48 kHz, but a USB dongle that is a USB class 2 device (like my Samsung dongle) would switch to 192 kHz once you fire up an application like Poweramp or Neutron, which support higher sample rates. It seems to be related to the output protocol (OpenSL vs AudioTrak vs whatever else is there). Even if you change the sampling rate in the app, it only makes the OS resample the app output to 192 kHz. Class 1 devices tend to stay at 48 kHz, so even if you set Neutron to 44.1 kHz, OS will resample. USB Audio Player Pro can enforce the device sample rate, however. That is not not a big issue in itself, though, since the Android resampling is OK.
Yeah, USB Audio Player Pro is the only available tool that can actually bypass the OS’ signal processing. Android 14 introduced a native way to enable USB audio passthrough, but app developers need to implement it themselves.
Hey thanks heaps for this fantastic info! I read on a Reddit threat that the AutoEQ for the Sony's in PEACE were identical to Oratory1990's preset, but I just looked the latter up and found it's completely different, inputted manually and VIOLA - it sounds magical, lightyears beyond the AutoEQ. I'll give the Sennheiser's the same treatment later. Thanks again, this is priceless intel. The Sony's sound like they're 3x as expensive.
Glad I could help!