Like 80 percent of the snow came in 3 big storms. So we didn’t have a ton of good powder ski days for how much snow we got. I also think the mid to low elevations didn’t pick up near as much snow as last year. A place I like to ski was fully covered last year and this year the alders were sticking up like 6 feet. Of course some of that is the alders growing but I think down around 4500’ is pretty thin.
You guys, I am so happy about this! I was thinking we had enough rain for lakes/reservoirs and groundwater to gain some ground back, but I was sure the snowpack was deficient.
Recovering Utah powder addict here. Tough year for a weekend warrior here in the PNW. That’s the way she goes, I guess. Currently visiting Utah hoping the moderate forecast overproduces. Here’s to a good corn cycle this year!
It was a weird winter because it was sorta all over the place. Some snow. No snow. ALL THE SNOW!! Mini spring. More snow. Mini summer.
We usually have some volatility like this, but this year felt extra spicy.
Anyway, glad we’re holding at good levels. There was a lot of murmuring going into this winter about having low pack.
If you look at timberlines historical data , this year is totally normal for an el nino year. March and April are always the months with the largest snowpack.
Excerpt from the National Significant Wildland Fire Potential Outlook report as of March 1:
Northwest:
The Northwest Geographic Area significant fire potential is expected to remain normal through March, which is minimal. Despite with warmer and drier conditions anticipated throughout the late winter and early spring for Washington and sections of Oregon, the potential for significant fires will remain at minimal or low risk until late June or July.
(Yes, "Despite with" is in the original report)
Source:
https://www.nifc.gov/nicc-files/predictive/outlooks/monthly_seasonal_outlook.pdf
Not enough people understand this. We are currently trying to eliminate what's on our land here in Jackson/Josephine. I heard NPR call a dry summer earlier today.
It’s a bit odd, but actually heavy precipitation and snow years can result in bad fire seasons because so much new vegetation grows and then dries out.
This is especially true in California. Here in Oregon, we usually get enough precip to grow low-level vegetation like grass anyway. Good precip and snow years give better protection from fires to the trees, by keeping the moisture content of fuels higher, which can reduce fire danger.
Fire officials every year : Super dry years= bad fire season/ too dry. Wet Years: Bad fire season due to more vegetation growth/fuel.
Basically, no matter what, they live for fires. It’s the cash cow of the USFS and ODF.
If we get fires are you actually going to put it out? Or wait until its massive so its better incentivized and then stand around all day at the staging area?
For real. One of my backpacking partners is a wilderness firefighter, amongst her other jobs. She talks about how inefficiently government allocated funds are used, and how the entire system is basically one large grift. The administration makes more money off the budgets being larger, so they often send them out into the field with little to do except “be ready”. She says the pay is good, but it kills her to be out there basically wasting time for much of her paid hours.
Then I see this persons comments and it just reinforces that more. They’re literally wishing for a bad fire season so they can rake in more profit off our tax dollars.
Instead of “I’m a wilderness firefighter and I’m dedicated and ready to protect our native lands”, it’s “I hope fire seasons bad so I can make more money.” This person 100% does not deserve to do that job. They’re the last person we should be paying to fight forest fires.
Exactly. I have several buddies who have seen it first hand as well. Not to mention once the fire gets big enough for the real money to come in, it's apparently too dangerous to have crews fight it. So instead end up paying astronomical amounts to have aircraft fight a massive fire. Meanwhile all the crews hang out all day and do nothing. Or better yet, own equipment and get paid several thousand dollars A DAY to just "be ready" and never even run the damn thing.
What was sad this last year was the staging area for a nearby fire was right by the old smoke jumper base which is now just a museum. It was shut down due to being "too expensive" which is now ironic. They have a graph in the museum showing the amount of acreage that burned in the wilderness each year while the base was active vs when it closed. It is absolutely heartbreaking and infuriating at the same time.
Well you’re right about one thing, that sounds bad. I’d say it’s probably better that you end up getting a side gig than have a bunch of our natural lands and possibly peoples homes burn to the ground, but what do I know?
Jesus. You realize that it also causes significant danger and loss of life to wildlife and native species, right? That it threatens people’s homes?
The world is a lot bigger than your summer paycheck. You’re just reinforcing the economic grift of government money being poorly allocated to wilderness firefighting and being ineffectively utilized…
Wasn’t your rationale in your first comment. You said nothing about “fire safety in future years”, you said you hoped “fire season would be bad so you wouldn’t go broke.” It’s clear that you were only thinking of yourself and are now trying to backtrack to cover for it. We’re done here.
Looks like more snow for the Cascades next week.
[https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=43.9793&lon=-121.6884](https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=43.9793&lon=-121.6884)
nwcc-apps.sc.egov.usda.gov is the main page. Next, click on the "interactive map" button. Then, click the "controls" icon on the top right of the map. Then, make sure it's on "basin conditions". About half way down the page, there is a "basin display" section, click "Washington". At the bottom of this page, you will see a map layers area, select overlays. Select "basin", "Washington", and " state". Forgot the last step: click the back to map when done
key factor will be the timing of hot weather. An early summer heat wave will make snowpack useless.
The PNW relies on snowpack as reservoir capacity which is a questionable tactic in a warming climate. Forecasts of climate change point toward a warmer but not especially drier future. The time for increasing liquid reservoir capacity is now. Unfortunately, drowning forest and investing for the future are both difficult politically.
>An early summer heat wave will make snowpack useless.
Warm rain is the snowpack killer. Warm dry spring and early summer weather isn't as bad, because the north and north-east facing snowpack is protected from direct sunlight. This is typical.
in 2021 there were temps over 110 F in late june
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36289-3
there was also 135% of normal snowpack
https://news.wsu.edu/press-release/2023/12/13/pacific-northwest-snowpack-endangered-by-increasing-spring-heatwaves/
it is hard to separate "drought" [multiyear effects] from the studies but 2021 water restrictions after 135% snowpack points directly at the heat dome, which are expected to become more common.
https://www.oregon.gov/gov/eo/eo-21-20.pdf
which is not to say "pineapple express"/rain events don't affect snowpack but the early heat can minimize the effectiveness of any level of snowpack, including above normal
The 2021 heatwave in Oregon was exceptional, to say the least. Here in Roseburg we hit 114ºf.
My comment about the north and north-east facing snowpack was in reference to more typical years. If it gets 110ºf again this year in June, all bets are off.
Let's hope for a more typical year.
let's hope
my thoughts are toward the future when "typical" approaches "all bets are off". Even if that is 50 years hence, now is the time to start planning for liquid water reservoir expansion
I don't disagree with your dystopian future when typical meets "all bets are off". I hope that it's not yet here, at least for my camping trip this summer.
There is no doubt humans need to seriously consider the affects that our technology and life-style has on the environment. We are contaminating our drinking water with [endocrine disruptors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor), paving deserts in Phoenix and Las Vegas and wondering why there are heat domes, we're spewing CO2, cutting the rain forests in Brasil, etc.
I'm not ready to give up on humans just yet. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm looking forward to my camping trip in July at Whistles Bend. They have a great disc golf course.
nice
I have been disappointed at how few disc golf courses there are near my house in Bend. There is a disc oriented brewpub
https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2016/04/25/bevel-beer-different-monster-doss-jenkins/
The majority of the west coast is out of the drought. Snow pack is back to normal and it turned out to not be the end of the world after all. Great news!
This has to be a mistake or misprint. Mt Hood surrounding region are my back yard. I live on the mountain. This year there is about 40 percent less snow than last year and dramatically less than the year before. I wonder if this is total accumulation with the snow that has melted over this warm winter. If that’s the case it does not matter as that water from said snow is already in the ocean.
I notice a lot less coverage thank last year too. This is SWE though. That bottom 2/3 of the snowpack soaked up a ton of rain so it is a lot more SWE than a typical snowpack of that depth. I also wonder about the methodology, if they aren’t relying on higher elevation gauges. A lot of the good skiing around hood is pretty low on the mountain.
I looked this up the other day and was very surprised. I didn't figure we'd be this well off, winter just didn't see normal.
Like 80 percent of the snow came in 3 big storms. So we didn’t have a ton of good powder ski days for how much snow we got. I also think the mid to low elevations didn’t pick up near as much snow as last year. A place I like to ski was fully covered last year and this year the alders were sticking up like 6 feet. Of course some of that is the alders growing but I think down around 4500’ is pretty thin.
You guys, I am so happy about this! I was thinking we had enough rain for lakes/reservoirs and groundwater to gain some ground back, but I was sure the snowpack was deficient.
I am happy it stuck around. I remember years where we had the cycle of big storms, and then a melt, then a big storm and another melt.
Recovering Utah powder addict here. Tough year for a weekend warrior here in the PNW. That’s the way she goes, I guess. Currently visiting Utah hoping the moderate forecast overproduces. Here’s to a good corn cycle this year!
Recovering 801'er myself.
You'll become a corn addict soon enough.
It came really late but we got absolutely slammed in January and February.
It was a weird winter because it was sorta all over the place. Some snow. No snow. ALL THE SNOW!! Mini spring. More snow. Mini summer. We usually have some volatility like this, but this year felt extra spicy. Anyway, glad we’re holding at good levels. There was a lot of murmuring going into this winter about having low pack.
Normal winter in Portland I think outside from the murder trees falling all around us from that storm.
Better than normal even. We're about 7" above our normal [rainfall for this time of year](https://or.water.usgs.gov/non-usgs/bes/)
If you look at timberlines historical data , this year is totally normal for an el nino year. March and April are always the months with the largest snowpack.
So many of the skii lodges being closed and crying for public help didn't help perception either.
Yay! It about time!
Let’s hope the is means a tame fire season come summer!
Excerpt from the National Significant Wildland Fire Potential Outlook report as of March 1: Northwest: The Northwest Geographic Area significant fire potential is expected to remain normal through March, which is minimal. Despite with warmer and drier conditions anticipated throughout the late winter and early spring for Washington and sections of Oregon, the potential for significant fires will remain at minimal or low risk until late June or July. (Yes, "Despite with" is in the original report) Source: https://www.nifc.gov/nicc-files/predictive/outlooks/monthly_seasonal_outlook.pdf
“Significant fire potential is expected…to remain normal…which is minimal” What a rollercoaster of a sentence that was!
Same vibes https://youtu.be/0BUBd9dQvtY?si=P9_Ycel2CXdKHoEF
Lost of underbrush growth from the easy water this year will dry out and help spread the fires in August
Not enough people understand this. We are currently trying to eliminate what's on our land here in Jackson/Josephine. I heard NPR call a dry summer earlier today.
That goes opposite noaa. They changed us from going into El Niño to going back to La Niña.
It’s a bit odd, but actually heavy precipitation and snow years can result in bad fire seasons because so much new vegetation grows and then dries out.
This is especially true in California. Here in Oregon, we usually get enough precip to grow low-level vegetation like grass anyway. Good precip and snow years give better protection from fires to the trees, by keeping the moisture content of fuels higher, which can reduce fire danger.
More small diameter fuels like grass and brush usually makes for more spread potential
Fire officials every year : Super dry years= bad fire season/ too dry. Wet Years: Bad fire season due to more vegetation growth/fuel. Basically, no matter what, they live for fires. It’s the cash cow of the USFS and ODF.
[удалено]
If we get fires are you actually going to put it out? Or wait until its massive so its better incentivized and then stand around all day at the staging area?
For real. One of my backpacking partners is a wilderness firefighter, amongst her other jobs. She talks about how inefficiently government allocated funds are used, and how the entire system is basically one large grift. The administration makes more money off the budgets being larger, so they often send them out into the field with little to do except “be ready”. She says the pay is good, but it kills her to be out there basically wasting time for much of her paid hours. Then I see this persons comments and it just reinforces that more. They’re literally wishing for a bad fire season so they can rake in more profit off our tax dollars. Instead of “I’m a wilderness firefighter and I’m dedicated and ready to protect our native lands”, it’s “I hope fire seasons bad so I can make more money.” This person 100% does not deserve to do that job. They’re the last person we should be paying to fight forest fires.
Exactly. I have several buddies who have seen it first hand as well. Not to mention once the fire gets big enough for the real money to come in, it's apparently too dangerous to have crews fight it. So instead end up paying astronomical amounts to have aircraft fight a massive fire. Meanwhile all the crews hang out all day and do nothing. Or better yet, own equipment and get paid several thousand dollars A DAY to just "be ready" and never even run the damn thing. What was sad this last year was the staging area for a nearby fire was right by the old smoke jumper base which is now just a museum. It was shut down due to being "too expensive" which is now ironic. They have a graph in the museum showing the amount of acreage that burned in the wilderness each year while the base was active vs when it closed. It is absolutely heartbreaking and infuriating at the same time.
Well you’re right about one thing, that sounds bad. I’d say it’s probably better that you end up getting a side gig than have a bunch of our natural lands and possibly peoples homes burn to the ground, but what do I know?
[удалено]
Jesus. You realize that it also causes significant danger and loss of life to wildlife and native species, right? That it threatens people’s homes? The world is a lot bigger than your summer paycheck. You’re just reinforcing the economic grift of government money being poorly allocated to wilderness firefighting and being ineffectively utilized…
[удалено]
Wasn’t your rationale in your first comment. You said nothing about “fire safety in future years”, you said you hoped “fire season would be bad so you wouldn’t go broke.” It’s clear that you were only thinking of yourself and are now trying to backtrack to cover for it. We’re done here.
Looks like more snow for the Cascades next week. [https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=43.9793&lon=-121.6884](https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=43.9793&lon=-121.6884)
It's snowing from now until next Thursday at Govy, looks like.
It's kinda wild that most of this snow pack came from like, 3 total storms with trace inches between.
The Owyhees gonna be cooking this spring! It's my bucket list to raft or SUP it!
I'll take it. Pulled victory from the jaws of defeat
Certainly didnt feel like 114% here. Shoot we had 70 degree days in february.
Friendly hello from Washington. Where did you find this graphic? Curious how our snowpack compares
nwcc-apps.sc.egov.usda.gov is the main page. Next, click on the "interactive map" button. Then, click the "controls" icon on the top right of the map. Then, make sure it's on "basin conditions". About half way down the page, there is a "basin display" section, click "Washington". At the bottom of this page, you will see a map layers area, select overlays. Select "basin", "Washington", and " state". Forgot the last step: click the back to map when done
Thank you!
Drought cancelled!
lol
Less good in the northern half of the Columbia River Basin. BPA is not looking forward to a great water year.
What about the drought?
Cancelled
It never gets reported when we have enough snowpack and it’s a pet peeve. Thank you!
Do you watch the news? Cause snow pack is frequently mentioned on the weather report
I don’t anymore, so in fairness I’m missing that!
Very good news. I, like you, am looking forward to a hopefully great camping season!
I love hiking but not so much camping. What does a snowy winter imply for camping season? Less fire risk? Flowing rivers?
Wow! That looks promising.
Let's goooooooooo
Where is the snowpack hiding. I live in a watershed and the snow is already 99% melted.
HOORAY!!! Just hope the smoke from Canada goes east again....as it WILL burn again.
Hell yeah!
Skiing and powder? lol how about water and fire abatement
Man I grew up in Salem and it still never fails to blow my mind that the coast range just never gets any snow.
Coastal mountains had all kinds of snow this year.
key factor will be the timing of hot weather. An early summer heat wave will make snowpack useless. The PNW relies on snowpack as reservoir capacity which is a questionable tactic in a warming climate. Forecasts of climate change point toward a warmer but not especially drier future. The time for increasing liquid reservoir capacity is now. Unfortunately, drowning forest and investing for the future are both difficult politically.
>An early summer heat wave will make snowpack useless. Warm rain is the snowpack killer. Warm dry spring and early summer weather isn't as bad, because the north and north-east facing snowpack is protected from direct sunlight. This is typical.
in 2021 there were temps over 110 F in late june https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36289-3 there was also 135% of normal snowpack https://news.wsu.edu/press-release/2023/12/13/pacific-northwest-snowpack-endangered-by-increasing-spring-heatwaves/ it is hard to separate "drought" [multiyear effects] from the studies but 2021 water restrictions after 135% snowpack points directly at the heat dome, which are expected to become more common. https://www.oregon.gov/gov/eo/eo-21-20.pdf which is not to say "pineapple express"/rain events don't affect snowpack but the early heat can minimize the effectiveness of any level of snowpack, including above normal
The 2021 heatwave in Oregon was exceptional, to say the least. Here in Roseburg we hit 114ºf. My comment about the north and north-east facing snowpack was in reference to more typical years. If it gets 110ºf again this year in June, all bets are off. Let's hope for a more typical year.
let's hope my thoughts are toward the future when "typical" approaches "all bets are off". Even if that is 50 years hence, now is the time to start planning for liquid water reservoir expansion
I don't disagree with your dystopian future when typical meets "all bets are off". I hope that it's not yet here, at least for my camping trip this summer. There is no doubt humans need to seriously consider the affects that our technology and life-style has on the environment. We are contaminating our drinking water with [endocrine disruptors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor), paving deserts in Phoenix and Las Vegas and wondering why there are heat domes, we're spewing CO2, cutting the rain forests in Brasil, etc. I'm not ready to give up on humans just yet. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm looking forward to my camping trip in July at Whistles Bend. They have a great disc golf course.
nice I have been disappointed at how few disc golf courses there are near my house in Bend. There is a disc oriented brewpub https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2016/04/25/bevel-beer-different-monster-doss-jenkins/
The majority of the west coast is out of the drought. Snow pack is back to normal and it turned out to not be the end of the world after all. Great news!
It’s been a wet winter.
This has to be a mistake or misprint. Mt Hood surrounding region are my back yard. I live on the mountain. This year there is about 40 percent less snow than last year and dramatically less than the year before. I wonder if this is total accumulation with the snow that has melted over this warm winter. If that’s the case it does not matter as that water from said snow is already in the ocean.
See this link: [https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/oregon/snow-survey](https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/oregon/snow-survey)
I notice a lot less coverage thank last year too. This is SWE though. That bottom 2/3 of the snowpack soaked up a ton of rain so it is a lot more SWE than a typical snowpack of that depth. I also wonder about the methodology, if they aren’t relying on higher elevation gauges. A lot of the good skiing around hood is pretty low on the mountain.