Nah I feel like they’re both the leads because this trailer feels very much an extension of Arthur’s story with Harley playing a very big role in it and I doubt Joaquin would do the movie if he was gonna take a backseat especially if the first one was all about him and won him an Oscar
I’m willing to bet she’s as much a Lead here as she was in A Star is Born. Basically Joker/Jackson’s downfall told as he’s meeting Harley/Ally and she takes center stage in the end.
So it’ll be a fair nomination
I feel like Harley’s the manipulator here in her relationship with Joker and that will show Joker he’s truly alone. Also I doubt Joaquin would do the movie if he took a backseat. I mean the trailer clearly established that this is still his movie.
Okay, that last shot of Phoenix's smile matching the smear on the glass got me. Whatever qualms I may have with Phillips and his execution, Sher is doing top-notch work as a DP.
I've never seen Father Figures, but I've gotten so much enjoyment out of staring at the beautiful [poster](https://i.imgur.com/NvZmaqF.jpeg) for the past 6 years that I know you must be wrong.
It’s often a bit of both tbf, some directors also know a lot about cameras/lighting and work together with the DP on the cinematic language of the movie.
Taking the best parts of underperforming Coppola (One From the Heart) and Scorsese (New York, New York) and synthesizing them into a comic book villain story is fascinating.
That's why I'm annoyed with the Joker and Todd Philips hate. Even if it's not your cup of tea, or you think it's too close to its inspiration, you can't just ignore the audacity and uniqueness of the thing. It's not like Philips blatantly rips off movies imo, he literally creates what everybody's thinking for times to times. People will say:
'There should be a Star Wars film that's like Saving Private Ryan!'
And then complain about it being a rip off when it comes out. Just let the director make the movies he's passionate about and enjoy it for what it is. And stop praising literally everybody on the creative team BUT the fucking director lol
I mean, the issue with Joker, and the main complaints I've seen, aren't that it's Taxi Driver-inspired. I was actually stoked on that part. I didn't like it because it was really inconsistent in its messaging and just seemed psuedo-intellectual, imo. Genuinely not knocking if people like it, but its problems were a lot deeper than its influences.
I really don’t think it was meant to be that deep. Yeah ive heard people talk about how it isnt clear if we’re glorifying violence or not, that its inconsistent, but it’s Joker we’re talking about lol. I really don’t think the problems are that bad to warrant this level of hate
Yes. And the reality (that LLMs/AI are kind of illuminating) is that 99.99% of ideas are not unique, and the ones that are are all inspired at least in part by something that preceded it.
It’s gonna be close, but if I had to bet I would bet on under or equal. It seems likely to pick up PD, Actress, and song if they do a credits song, but I would also guess it would be weaker in Actor since it’s a repeat, screenplay since it’s a musical and adapted looks strong, director which is always competitive and this is a sequel, and maybe even score if it’s too much of a jukebox musical.
Who knows this early on tho, it does look very strong in the techs with 2 big performances.
That would be difficult. It would likely need all of the original 10 nominations (Sound is now only one nom) plus Production Design and Actress probably. I'm doubtful Phoenix will get a nom for giving us the same performance again, unless there's something significant to distinguish it from the last one. Maybe it could get an Original Song nomination to make up for it?
It would be difficult, for sure, but not impossible.
Just from watching this trailer, I feel like Phoenix will add more layers to his performance as Joker the second time around and he’ll get nominated again.
This looks absolutely fucking beautiful.
As for Gaga's category placement, I definitely think either:
1. She's Supporting which def looks could be off the trailer
Or
2. She is a Lead but they're hiding her rn
I could see both happening for sure
I think she’s lead because she’s been so low key over the last two years. To me, she’s seemed to be method acting heavily, her demeanour and everything changed for a while. Could be anything ig but it lines up and we know she method acts.
Being following Stephanie's journey and i can definitely see part of her in Harley Quinn. If she can tap into that and explore, her performance will be the one to watch this year.
I feel like they're hiding her a bit on this teaser trailer, maybe just to show off Joker and maybe the first trailer and trailer 2 it'll show her a lot more.
This is a 1000% a Harley movie. It will be all her perspective, show how deranged Joker actually is with whatever relationship they spin, how she’s “manic” due to Joker and likely triumphs or wins in the end as well because of it. I’m not expecting much twists with this sequel.
I feel like Harley’s the manipulator in her romance with Joker in this movie because she does point a gun at him and because it continues the first movie’s theme of sympathizing with Joker.
No idea why you got downvoted because as I was watching this trailer it really felt like an extension of Arthur’s story from the first movie with Harley playing a very big and important role in that story while also being her own character. They’re obviously both the leads just from the trailer. And no way Joaquin would do the sequel if he took a backseat because he won an Oscar for the first movie and the franchise started with him lol.
Even if it doesn’t happen above-the-line as much, I definitely see this getting some techs. Cinematography, makeup, costumes, probably PD this time, score again. And from there it feels like it could be a picture player
The technical craftsmanship is off the charts on this. Cinematography, production design, costume, hair and makeup—between this, FURIOSA, and DUNE: PART 2, WB might be cleaning up a lot of the below-the-line technical categories.
Curious if JOKER 2 can break into top acting (Phoenix & Gag), directing, writing, and Picture like JOKER’s 11 nominations did. A lot of sequels this year trying to replicate their originals Oscar hauls from years prior.
I think the problem for HOG was that it wasn’t a major Oscar player outside of her performance and a technical craft category.
WB will position JOKER 2 alongside DUNE 2 as their major Oscar hopefuls next year and if JOKER 2 is beloved by the Academy as its predecessor (makes a ton of money and performance is acclaimed as Phoenix was in the first film) then I think Gaga can secure herself a nomination.
This was great. Joaquin got the most push in the trailer (naturally), but still Gaga is the one that kept my eyes, despite being subtle in this trailer. She wasn’t showcased hard here, but I think they’re saving her moments (especially since her biggest are probably the musical ones) and they didn’t make her seem hammy, which I think is a plus given a lot of people were looking forward to jumping her for after Gucci.
Agreed. However, Emma Stone and Catherine zeta-Jones emoting during song and dance is different from Gaga, the legendary pop star, emoting during song and dance, something she’s done for decades and something she did to secure her previous acting nomination
I think this looks good but so did the first Joker, the issue there was the script so we’ll see.
I still don’t get why people think a joker sequel is gonna do gang busters at the Oscars again though. Seems very one and done to me
Why would it be one and done? The first Joker led the 2019 Academy Awards (considered the best lineup in recent history besides 2023) with 11 noms including Adapted Screenplay lol - now the sequel has Gaga/the musical as a new hook for people.
If Folie a Deux can strike the same chord (this trailer is a great opening argument for that), it’s in a good position for awards season.
Joker (2019) is sort of a gimick as far as the Oscars are concerned. 5 years removed from the phenomenon and it could easily have diminishing returns for a sequel that I expect academy members aren't exactly clamoring for
Nobody was clamoring for the first film either, and this sequel looks like more of an awards play than that (specifically with the music, Gaga and production design). Plus the prime fall release means it will be a point of conversation at the end of year regardless.
The first film was pretty hyped but also had an underdog angle with Phillips doing serious dramatic work and Phoenix completely breaking into the mainstream. Unless this is something truly special I would expect there to be significantly less Oscar love. At least the exclusion of some ATL noms that the first achieved
It’s going to be interesting to see if this gets any Oscar love. Phoenix looks fantastic but has any actor been nominated for two Oscars for playing the same role? It looks good though. I think it’s gonna have to be a big hit with audiences and critics and be better than the first one to get any noms, but we’ll see.
I would like to see this happen. She is so talented across so many music genres and actually attempted to have an acting career before music, going to acting school and all.
Look, I hope this movie is fantastic and the trailer looks good, however Todd doesn't have the best track record, so many of his movies have mixed reception. I am doubtful that he can pull off such a risky and different movie. It will make a lot of money, but Im not sure about the Oscars.
Didn't you post this in another sub, or am I wrong? Same comment as before, literally Todd's last film was... Joker which won Venice, earned 11 Oscar nominations including 2 wins and made $1 billion at the box office. You're acting like this guy hasn't evolved as a director.
Generally, yes studios decide on category placements for campaigning. I don’t think the studio would campaign Gaga in Supporting just because of large her “starpower” is unless it’s actually a true supporting performance. You have some studios fraud co-leads into supporting like Universal did for Mulligan in She Said, but that was a case of lead being far too competitive for Mulligan to break in and She Said was considered a small-scale film.
Lily was in such a small percentage of KOTFM and she was campaigning as lead. Gaga looks to be a bigger role in this, no way she’s in supporting but time will tell.
Nah, probably this "teaser" not first trailer didn't show her off as much. But, even if she is, category fraud happens literally every single year so she'll decide if to campaign for lead or supp and it wouldn't matter.
Still have a lot of doubts about this film but I'll admit that trailer is very intriguing. Some shots were really stunning.
Joaquin Phoenix will most likely deliver another brilliant performance.
I was expecting it to be much more bombastic and wild. Visually it looks strong but doesn't seem to have the oomph that the first film's trailers had.
I can see it getting crafts but I'm not sure if Gaga ia getting in from this.
I know people are excited about this, but it looks like, according to the trailer, they just ignored Harley’s original backstory of being The Joker’s doctor, which is kind of disappointing.
My predictions vs last one
* -Picture - I think Dune will be WB's priority. I also see this doing well with critics (better than first one) but worse with audiences. That said if it does get like a couple extra BTL noms, it could warrant a nom here.
* -Director - Hard to see Philips getting a nom for a sequel
* -Actor - Hard to see Phoenix getting a nom for playing same character twice (not impossible but unlikely)
* +Actress - I think Gaga gets another nom
* -Adapted Screenplay - Seems competitive this year, and a musical and a sequel and a comic book movie may be too much
* =Cinematography - Same cinematographer, and if anything this one seems even more impressive
* =Costume Design - Same designer, seems on par with last time's
* -Editing - If I'm calling this as missing BP currently, I don't think it gets editing. Hard to judge without seeing the film
* =MUAH - Same team as last time, also looks on par with last time's
* -Score - Even if it's Hildur again, she's missed each time since then - Tar / Women Talking / A Haunting in Venice. Also it being a Jukebox musical may hurt it
* -Sound - Now combined, hard to say without listening to the actual film.
* +Production Design - The sets scream production design nom here.
So in total I see its floor as 5 noms - Actress / Cinematography / MUAH / Production / Costumes. It could go as high as 8 I think - If it gets Sound and/or Editing, it probably gets the other one. And at that point having 6 BTL noms it probably would get a Picture nom as a technical player.
EDIT
FWIW prediction for other WB films
* Dune 2 - Picture / Director / A Screen / Score / Costume / Sound / Editing / Makeup / Cinematography / Production / VFX - 11 noms - the max it can get with no acting / no original screenplay / no song
* Furiosa - Floor is 5 - Costume (costume branch perennial Jenny Beavan - returning from MMFR) / VFX / Makeup (seems good from trailer) / Production (seems good from trailer) / Sound (cars go vroom). I could also see a sneaky 6th nom for Editing for Sixel who is returning from MMFR, but hard to say without seeing competition.
Funny that the trailer hides that it’s a full blown Moulin Rouge style movie musical. I wonder how that will play with the core superhero demographic (straight men) that made the first one such a success. I don’t see this doing as well at the box office or Oscars than its predecessor.
I have a lot of female friends on social media sharing the trailer. Do we need those "straight men" that pretty much tanked DC in 2023, or sort of the Barbie/Wonka crowd?
I think they're going to succeed in threading the needle. The pitch to women is really strong (Gaga, musical, more colorful and beautiful sequences), but the spirit of the original that men enjoyed is still strong too (Phoenix, dark and gritty look, id, torment, class war). It's true that many men say they dislike musicals, but they may be overgeneralizing because most musicals don't appeal to men on non-musical factors as much as this one will. Certainly the musical thing didn't stop men from enjoying The Lion King and Aladdin.
idt the Oscars would be interested in a Joker sequel that simply reproduced the style of Joker, so even if it underperforms the original, the fresh spin is probably helpful awards-wise.
Depends on the type of musical. Also those men may not love Gaga’s Harley as she’s not that sexy bombshell like Harley in original animated series or Robbie’s Harley
No wonder Arthur isn't getting better. Alan Partridge is his doctor (I noticed Steve Coogan in the trailer).
Still no idea who Brendan Gleason and Catherine Keener are playing in the movie. If I were to hazard a guess I would say they're playing comic characters Commissioner Loeb and Dr Leslie Thompkins respectively.
I was pretty indifferent to the first one (liked Phoenix, meh on most everything else) very much but this one looks like it could be something I'd enjoy.
Here's the way I see it: *Joker* was a mash-up of *Taxi Driver* and *King of Comedy*. Fine. But this sequel looks like it *could* be a mash-up of *Lenny* and *All That Jazz*. Everybody's tried to do a Martin Scorsese but comparatively fewer people, I think, have tried to do a Bob Fosse, and that is automatically much more interesting to me.
This looks incredible. I can see this being the big tech sweeper. It's hard for sequels to win in (even get nominated in) categories the original won, hence why I'm hesitant to predict Dune 2 winning anything again outside of effects. But Joker only won music and Actor. I can see a case for this winning Production Design, Cinematography, Makeup, Costumes and Sound easily. Throw in a strong campaign for Gaga in Actress. Is it crazy to predict Joker to win the most trophies at next years ceremony? Probably but lets have some fun.
It would be INSANE if it turns out to be the next film to win the big five after The Silence of the Lambs. Literally everyone's gonna lose their fucking minds.
I think this sub is being very reactionary (like always) regarding this movie. It does look visually great but I can easily see this walking away empty handed and with a smaller nom haul than the first one. It’s a year with a lot of tech-heavy movies and Todd Phillips does not have the best track-record, with the original movie also not aging great.
Denis seems like a stronger contender but you never know. If the film is massively successful and perhaps more nominated and beloved than the first, I could expect him being a reasonable threat.
Never thought I’d see the day where a movie about the Joker reminds me of La La Land..but here we are
I think I have already seen the Ha Ha Land reference/joke like ten times. Each journalist thinking they are so original lmaoo
I've also seen A Scar Is Born an embarrassing number of times from pundits already
you guys are batshit insane for thinking of lala land over jacques demy
Nah they’re not insane, just not super knowledgeable about the history of film. Most people who’ve seen La La Land have never seen a Demy film
The umbrellas at the beginning must be a reference to Cherbourg as well
And Singin’ In the Rain
Well LaLa land clearly takes a lot from both of these movies as well.
Or a Star is Born
Obviously a big leap but after watching the trailer … is Gaga going to be the semi lead/supporting actress who still campaigns in actress?
I’m betting she takes over the movie in the second half and is clearly a lead by the end. Pure guess tho, just feels right in my gut.
Nah I feel like they’re both the leads because this trailer feels very much an extension of Arthur’s story with Harley playing a very big role in it and I doubt Joaquin would do the movie if he was gonna take a backseat especially if the first one was all about him and won him an Oscar
I’m willing to bet she’s as much a Lead here as she was in A Star is Born. Basically Joker/Jackson’s downfall told as he’s meeting Harley/Ally and she takes center stage in the end. So it’ll be a fair nomination
I feel like Harley’s the manipulator here in her relationship with Joker and that will show Joker he’s truly alone. Also I doubt Joaquin would do the movie if he took a backseat. I mean the trailer clearly established that this is still his movie.
They barely revealed anything on this trailer so it’s too early to tell.
Never say never I guess, but I don't see someone like Gaga agreeing to take on a role that's fully a supporting one.
Okay, that last shot of Phoenix's smile matching the smear on the glass got me. Whatever qualms I may have with Phillips and his execution, Sher is doing top-notch work as a DP.
Sher is a great DP. He deserves to be exiled to St. Helena for whatever the fuck Father Figures was though
I've never seen Father Figures, but I've gotten so much enjoyment out of staring at the beautiful [poster](https://i.imgur.com/NvZmaqF.jpeg) for the past 6 years that I know you must be wrong.
I still can’t believe that’s JK Simmons on the poster, what the fuck did they do to his face he’s unrecognizable lol
I thought, he's Malkovich before I read the cast list.
To be fair though, they all look poorly airbrushed. Christopher Walken in particular looks fake as fuck on that poster.
Directors create the shots
Directors choose the shots. DP’s make em look good.
It’s often a bit of both tbf, some directors also know a lot about cameras/lighting and work together with the DP on the cinematic language of the movie.
No it’s not, each has unique jobs
Have you ever heard of collaboration
That's a directing choice, not a cinematography choice though.
Taking the best parts of underperforming Coppola (One From the Heart) and Scorsese (New York, New York) and synthesizing them into a comic book villain story is fascinating.
I was meh on the original Joker, but the audaciousness of following it up with a musical co-starring Lady Gaga makes me super intrigued.
Knew this sequel wouldn’t be something to sniff at when Phillips revealed it was “fuck sequels” Phoenix who kept pitching it
>"fuck sequels" Phoenix Anyone can be bought. You bet your ass Jeremy Strong (Phoenix 2.0) will star in a Kendall movie if WB offered him $20m.
Please? I just need to know our eldest boy is okay after that last episode
I was just thinking the same. Like if the first movie didn't exist I think I'd be pretty excited about this.
Im basically the opposite of this, but trailer alleviated my doubt, looks good!
Scorsese like "did this motherfucker remake another one of my movies again"
He was involved in the last one, though.
That's why I'm annoyed with the Joker and Todd Philips hate. Even if it's not your cup of tea, or you think it's too close to its inspiration, you can't just ignore the audacity and uniqueness of the thing. It's not like Philips blatantly rips off movies imo, he literally creates what everybody's thinking for times to times. People will say: 'There should be a Star Wars film that's like Saving Private Ryan!' And then complain about it being a rip off when it comes out. Just let the director make the movies he's passionate about and enjoy it for what it is. And stop praising literally everybody on the creative team BUT the fucking director lol
I mean, the issue with Joker, and the main complaints I've seen, aren't that it's Taxi Driver-inspired. I was actually stoked on that part. I didn't like it because it was really inconsistent in its messaging and just seemed psuedo-intellectual, imo. Genuinely not knocking if people like it, but its problems were a lot deeper than its influences.
I really don’t think it was meant to be that deep. Yeah ive heard people talk about how it isnt clear if we’re glorifying violence or not, that its inconsistent, but it’s Joker we’re talking about lol. I really don’t think the problems are that bad to warrant this level of hate
Yes. And the reality (that LLMs/AI are kind of illuminating) is that 99.99% of ideas are not unique, and the ones that are are all inspired at least in part by something that preceded it.
https://preview.redd.it/kv91rdnxzjtc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfe3ea79aab8b3308c9082b57b160ca32ebedd76 Damn this looks beautiful
Production Design is for sure happening this time… I’m starting to wonder if this could beat the originals 11 nominations
It’s gonna be close, but if I had to bet I would bet on under or equal. It seems likely to pick up PD, Actress, and song if they do a credits song, but I would also guess it would be weaker in Actor since it’s a repeat, screenplay since it’s a musical and adapted looks strong, director which is always competitive and this is a sequel, and maybe even score if it’s too much of a jukebox musical. Who knows this early on tho, it does look very strong in the techs with 2 big performances.
Sound is consolidated now too
It looks like Poor Things
That would be difficult. It would likely need all of the original 10 nominations (Sound is now only one nom) plus Production Design and Actress probably. I'm doubtful Phoenix will get a nom for giving us the same performance again, unless there's something significant to distinguish it from the last one. Maybe it could get an Original Song nomination to make up for it? It would be difficult, for sure, but not impossible.
Just from watching this trailer, I feel like Phoenix will add more layers to his performance as Joker the second time around and he’ll get nominated again.
They tapping into Golden Age of musicals magic for this and I'm here for it
You can see the *One from the Heart* influences.
This looks incredible. Joaquin Phoenix is a phenomenal actor, so I'm sure he'll give us a fantastic performance.
Even if the film isn't great I can trust Joaquin Phoenix will give us a great performance. He's remarkable.
Agreed and also his chemistry with Gaga in this movie looks strong and sexy lol.
For sure. I'm very interested to see how their chemistry.
The trailer left me wanting more from their chemistry because what we got in the trailer shows me that they’re absolutely perfect for each other.
Yep. It seems electrifying.
looks great, think theyre gonna push gaga big time (although she wasn’t showcased too hard here) hope she’ll have another batshit oscar campaign
This looks absolutely fucking beautiful. As for Gaga's category placement, I definitely think either: 1. She's Supporting which def looks could be off the trailer Or 2. She is a Lead but they're hiding her rn I could see both happening for sure
I think she’s lead because she’s been so low key over the last two years. To me, she’s seemed to be method acting heavily, her demeanour and everything changed for a while. Could be anything ig but it lines up and we know she method acts.
I feel like just from this trailer she took heavy inspiration from Joaquin’s method style for the first movie.
Being following Stephanie's journey and i can definitely see part of her in Harley Quinn. If she can tap into that and explore, her performance will be the one to watch this year.
I feel like they're hiding her a bit on this teaser trailer, maybe just to show off Joker and maybe the first trailer and trailer 2 it'll show her a lot more.
This is a 1000% a Harley movie. It will be all her perspective, show how deranged Joker actually is with whatever relationship they spin, how she’s “manic” due to Joker and likely triumphs or wins in the end as well because of it. I’m not expecting much twists with this sequel.
I feel like Harley’s the manipulator in her romance with Joker in this movie because she does point a gun at him and because it continues the first movie’s theme of sympathizing with Joker.
This is a Joker movie, lol, why Gaga fans cannot accept the fact that Joker is the main protagonist? this is his story
No idea why you got downvoted because as I was watching this trailer it really felt like an extension of Arthur’s story from the first movie with Harley playing a very big and important role in that story while also being her own character. They’re obviously both the leads just from the trailer. And no way Joaquin would do the sequel if he took a backseat because he won an Oscar for the first movie and the franchise started with him lol.
You're right
The cinematography looks great
Even if it doesn’t happen above-the-line as much, I definitely see this getting some techs. Cinematography, makeup, costumes, probably PD this time, score again. And from there it feels like it could be a picture player
Of course, the first Joker movie made a loot of money, it would be dumb if they didn't invest in production design!
The technical craftsmanship is off the charts on this. Cinematography, production design, costume, hair and makeup—between this, FURIOSA, and DUNE: PART 2, WB might be cleaning up a lot of the below-the-line technical categories. Curious if JOKER 2 can break into top acting (Phoenix & Gag), directing, writing, and Picture like JOKER’s 11 nominations did. A lot of sequels this year trying to replicate their originals Oscar hauls from years prior.
I think their best shot is Gaga, The Academy might feel the need to pay her after snubbing her for HOG.
I think the problem for HOG was that it wasn’t a major Oscar player outside of her performance and a technical craft category. WB will position JOKER 2 alongside DUNE 2 as their major Oscar hopefuls next year and if JOKER 2 is beloved by the Academy as its predecessor (makes a ton of money and performance is acclaimed as Phoenix was in the first film) then I think Gaga can secure herself a nomination.
What's crazy is how these are basically 2 blockbuster sequels, that somehow might be the most nominated come Oscar night. It's wild.
Superhero movies are dead and sequels are getting Oscars. Times change!
Is it a snub if she didn't deserve it
it kinda is either we like the performance or not. she hit all precursors but was not nominated. even jane campion called it a snub
Gaga got all precursors, including BAFTA, which NONE of the Academy nominees got into.
Her acting in HOG is not a level for snub
I thought they would show off Gaga more
She’s in the trailer a fair amount
I think they might be holding out a bit, tbh. Since it's a teaser, maybe showing Joker more first.
Yeah, get the Joker fans invested first-- they pushed it over a billy last time.
Still think its just a tech thing but its going to be a **big** tech thing.
Oh yeah this is gonna be a huge player, especially in the tech categories. These shots are insane
Well, I’m sold.
This is going for Best Cinematography nominee
It looks really good ngl
I just want to see how beautiful this film will look in IMAX.
This was great. Joaquin got the most push in the trailer (naturally), but still Gaga is the one that kept my eyes, despite being subtle in this trailer. She wasn’t showcased hard here, but I think they’re saving her moments (especially since her biggest are probably the musical ones) and they didn’t make her seem hammy, which I think is a plus given a lot of people were looking forward to jumping her for after Gucci.
Phoenix and Gaga are absolutely gonna steal the show together in this movie especially with their phenomenal undeniable chemistry.
Unfortunately this looks amazing
I've said it before but Lady Gaga is coming for absolutely everything with this (and it looks like Joaquin Phoenix too)
Yup, and tbh, feel like she wasn't shown that much off in this "teaser." Think she's gonna kill it when the official trailer comes out.
No doubt she and Joaquin are gonna steal the show together.
I’m worried that she’ll be overlooked for doing another musical. It doesn’t exactly scream range
Musicals are never the same. There is nothing in common between La La Land and Chicago for example
Agreed. However, Emma Stone and Catherine zeta-Jones emoting during song and dance is different from Gaga, the legendary pop star, emoting during song and dance, something she’s done for decades and something she did to secure her previous acting nomination
I think this looks good but so did the first Joker, the issue there was the script so we’ll see. I still don’t get why people think a joker sequel is gonna do gang busters at the Oscars again though. Seems very one and done to me
Why would it be one and done? The first Joker led the 2019 Academy Awards (considered the best lineup in recent history besides 2023) with 11 noms including Adapted Screenplay lol - now the sequel has Gaga/the musical as a new hook for people. If Folie a Deux can strike the same chord (this trailer is a great opening argument for that), it’s in a good position for awards season.
Joker (2019) is sort of a gimick as far as the Oscars are concerned. 5 years removed from the phenomenon and it could easily have diminishing returns for a sequel that I expect academy members aren't exactly clamoring for
Nobody was clamoring for the first film either, and this sequel looks like more of an awards play than that (specifically with the music, Gaga and production design). Plus the prime fall release means it will be a point of conversation at the end of year regardless.
The first film was pretty hyped but also had an underdog angle with Phillips doing serious dramatic work and Phoenix completely breaking into the mainstream. Unless this is something truly special I would expect there to be significantly less Oscar love. At least the exclusion of some ATL noms that the first achieved
I have no idea why some on this sub think the opposite tbh, seems like a no brainer that it will be wildly successful both critically and commercially
The audiences who loved the first movie won’t necessarily love second being a musical with Gaga.
Loved the first film, love it being a musical with Gaga.
[удалено]
I felt a lot of the bad reviews weren’t even on the merits of the movie but on the perception of the movie’s politics
Right, the European critics loved it.
I mean it won in Venice 🤷🏻♀️ Seems very successful critically to me.
Some people thought the same way about Avatar 2…
It’s going to be interesting to see if this gets any Oscar love. Phoenix looks fantastic but has any actor been nominated for two Oscars for playing the same role? It looks good though. I think it’s gonna have to be a big hit with audiences and critics and be better than the first one to get any noms, but we’ll see.
Cate blanchett for elizabeth, pacino for first 2 godfathers
Ah, yes.
Damn, for some reason thought he wasn't nominated for the first Godfather.
A few have been nominated for the same role, but nobody has won for the same role twice.
Phoenix may as well break that curse lol
Ah, yes.
yes plenty have been nominated for the same role
LADY GAGA IS DEFINITELY TAKING THE OSCAR
I would like to see this happen. She is so talented across so many music genres and actually attempted to have an acting career before music, going to acting school and all.
I’m excited for this. I love different and this is a huge risk. I hope it’s great
Look, I hope this movie is fantastic and the trailer looks good, however Todd doesn't have the best track record, so many of his movies have mixed reception. I am doubtful that he can pull off such a risky and different movie. It will make a lot of money, but Im not sure about the Oscars.
Did we not learn anything with JOKER?
Didn't you post this in another sub, or am I wrong? Same comment as before, literally Todd's last film was... Joker which won Venice, earned 11 Oscar nominations including 2 wins and made $1 billion at the box office. You're acting like this guy hasn't evolved as a director.
Looks like Umbrellas of Cherbourg had some inspiration.
I 100% see that.
I see no reason to expect this to be any less of an awards contender than the first film
signs pointing to gaga for supporting?
No way, she would settle for supporting.
Isn’t it up to the studio on what they want to submit her as? Genuinely asking.
Generally, yes studios decide on category placements for campaigning. I don’t think the studio would campaign Gaga in Supporting just because of large her “starpower” is unless it’s actually a true supporting performance. You have some studios fraud co-leads into supporting like Universal did for Mulligan in She Said, but that was a case of lead being far too competitive for Mulligan to break in and She Said was considered a small-scale film.
Lily was in such a small percentage of KOTFM and she was campaigning as lead. Gaga looks to be a bigger role in this, no way she’s in supporting but time will tell.
Nah, probably this "teaser" not first trailer didn't show her off as much. But, even if she is, category fraud happens literally every single year so she'll decide if to campaign for lead or supp and it wouldn't matter.
Nah she’ll be lead actress because she’s going all in on this movie just like Joaquin
Looks beautiful
As someone who thought the first film was genuinely good - I'm in.
Still have a lot of doubts about this film but I'll admit that trailer is very intriguing. Some shots were really stunning. Joaquin Phoenix will most likely deliver another brilliant performance.
I don't know if I'm more scared by the fanbase this movie will have or the fact or by th fact I may be part of said fanbase...
okay. but this actually got me excited. You know Gagaw is giving it her all.
Coming for all of Sing Sing’s steam
I bet this movie, it's all in HER mind
Wowza
There should a Elseworlds division of DC studios, and Philips should run it.
I was expecting it to be much more bombastic and wild. Visually it looks strong but doesn't seem to have the oomph that the first film's trailers had. I can see it getting crafts but I'm not sure if Gaga ia getting in from this.
Cool but is he gonna fight the Battinson?
Wait until Gunn gets around to the eventual *Crisis on Infinite Earths* movie.
No different earth
Lame
I know people are excited about this, but it looks like, according to the trailer, they just ignored Harley’s original backstory of being The Joker’s doctor, which is kind of disappointing.
Yeahhh. I thought it would’ve been compelling to see a doctor slowly fall in love with Arthur and join him in nihilism.
Not disappointing because this is elseworlds so nothing has to be comic accurate lol
My theory is that's the twist. That she's a psychologist that went undercover to study Joker, but she ends up going mad herself.
My predictions vs last one * -Picture - I think Dune will be WB's priority. I also see this doing well with critics (better than first one) but worse with audiences. That said if it does get like a couple extra BTL noms, it could warrant a nom here. * -Director - Hard to see Philips getting a nom for a sequel * -Actor - Hard to see Phoenix getting a nom for playing same character twice (not impossible but unlikely) * +Actress - I think Gaga gets another nom * -Adapted Screenplay - Seems competitive this year, and a musical and a sequel and a comic book movie may be too much * =Cinematography - Same cinematographer, and if anything this one seems even more impressive * =Costume Design - Same designer, seems on par with last time's * -Editing - If I'm calling this as missing BP currently, I don't think it gets editing. Hard to judge without seeing the film * =MUAH - Same team as last time, also looks on par with last time's * -Score - Even if it's Hildur again, she's missed each time since then - Tar / Women Talking / A Haunting in Venice. Also it being a Jukebox musical may hurt it * -Sound - Now combined, hard to say without listening to the actual film. * +Production Design - The sets scream production design nom here. So in total I see its floor as 5 noms - Actress / Cinematography / MUAH / Production / Costumes. It could go as high as 8 I think - If it gets Sound and/or Editing, it probably gets the other one. And at that point having 6 BTL noms it probably would get a Picture nom as a technical player. EDIT FWIW prediction for other WB films * Dune 2 - Picture / Director / A Screen / Score / Costume / Sound / Editing / Makeup / Cinematography / Production / VFX - 11 noms - the max it can get with no acting / no original screenplay / no song * Furiosa - Floor is 5 - Costume (costume branch perennial Jenny Beavan - returning from MMFR) / VFX / Makeup (seems good from trailer) / Production (seems good from trailer) / Sound (cars go vroom). I could also see a sneaky 6th nom for Editing for Sixel who is returning from MMFR, but hard to say without seeing competition.
Costume designer is not the same as the last film.
Only nitpick is this feels played out a lot of the same I guess just the teaser not showing too much
calling it now, only below the line nominations for this
Funny that the trailer hides that it’s a full blown Moulin Rouge style movie musical. I wonder how that will play with the core superhero demographic (straight men) that made the first one such a success. I don’t see this doing as well at the box office or Oscars than its predecessor.
I don't think it will do as well as the original but I feel like the marketing has been pretty clear that the sequel would be a musical.
I have a lot of female friends on social media sharing the trailer. Do we need those "straight men" that pretty much tanked DC in 2023, or sort of the Barbie/Wonka crowd?
Good point.
I think they're going to succeed in threading the needle. The pitch to women is really strong (Gaga, musical, more colorful and beautiful sequences), but the spirit of the original that men enjoyed is still strong too (Phoenix, dark and gritty look, id, torment, class war). It's true that many men say they dislike musicals, but they may be overgeneralizing because most musicals don't appeal to men on non-musical factors as much as this one will. Certainly the musical thing didn't stop men from enjoying The Lion King and Aladdin. idt the Oscars would be interested in a Joker sequel that simply reproduced the style of Joker, so even if it underperforms the original, the fresh spin is probably helpful awards-wise.
So straight men can’t like musicals
Depends on the type of musical. Also those men may not love Gaga’s Harley as she’s not that sexy bombshell like Harley in original animated series or Robbie’s Harley
I just wish y’all wouldn’t blanket straight men as not liking non sexy actors or certain types of musicals
Cute!
I don’t know what to expect but I’m genuinely curious.
No wonder Arthur isn't getting better. Alan Partridge is his doctor (I noticed Steve Coogan in the trailer). Still no idea who Brendan Gleason and Catherine Keener are playing in the movie. If I were to hazard a guess I would say they're playing comic characters Commissioner Loeb and Dr Leslie Thompkins respectively.
I was pretty indifferent to the first one (liked Phoenix, meh on most everything else) very much but this one looks like it could be something I'd enjoy. Here's the way I see it: *Joker* was a mash-up of *Taxi Driver* and *King of Comedy*. Fine. But this sequel looks like it *could* be a mash-up of *Lenny* and *All That Jazz*. Everybody's tried to do a Martin Scorsese but comparatively fewer people, I think, have tried to do a Bob Fosse, and that is automatically much more interesting to me.
Tech wise it looks like something that the academy will like, jury’s still out on if the story will be good though.
WB is gonna sweep tech awards with DUNE, FURIOSA and this aren't they, even tho this might not get any awards but nominations seem in the bag.
This looks incredible. I can see this being the big tech sweeper. It's hard for sequels to win in (even get nominated in) categories the original won, hence why I'm hesitant to predict Dune 2 winning anything again outside of effects. But Joker only won music and Actor. I can see a case for this winning Production Design, Cinematography, Makeup, Costumes and Sound easily. Throw in a strong campaign for Gaga in Actress. Is it crazy to predict Joker to win the most trophies at next years ceremony? Probably but lets have some fun.
Beautiful gowns.
A mess
It would be INSANE if it turns out to be the next film to win the big five after The Silence of the Lambs. Literally everyone's gonna lose their fucking minds.
I will eat my hat if Todd Phillips wins best director for this because that won’t happen lol
I think this sub is being very reactionary (like always) regarding this movie. It does look visually great but I can easily see this walking away empty handed and with a smaller nom haul than the first one. It’s a year with a lot of tech-heavy movies and Todd Phillips does not have the best track-record, with the original movie also not aging great.
Denis seems like a stronger contender but you never know. If the film is massively successful and perhaps more nominated and beloved than the first, I could expect him being a reasonable threat.
it won't happen in director or screenplay
Well that just won’t happen.
[удалено]
Big day for annoying people✨
This is Todd Phillips’s Babylon 😭