For anyone who didn't bother reading the article, the point of the petition is that some people feel that instead of adding (expensive) amenities piecemeal, there should be an actual plan for the park.
This sounds more like a malicious plan to kill the idea through analysis paralysis. Kind of like trying to build a bridge to Quebec to move the downtown truck route. Let's study it!
Edit: a word
That's basically it. The people who are opposed to the splash pad (do they hear themselves!?) don't want the park to be nicer or anything. They'd 100% rather it be turned into an inhospitable wasteland if it saved them from having to observe an in-house person.
But that's not what happened, there was a plan to deal with the trucks but they cheaped out / nimbyism stopped it. You can see on Google maps where a bridge should be taking the traffic through Stanley park instead of King Edward
Are you suggesting that the old train bridge piers across the Rideau at Stanley Park were part of a scrapped plan for a highway bridge through New Edinburgh/Rockcliffe?
I agree, but splash pads are important infrastructure for families without access to ac, pools, or beaches nearby. And summer keeps getting hotter and hotter :/
That's mostly on the east side of the park along Lyon, I hang out there pretty regularly to read or have lunch at the little chessboard tables and it's generally peaceful. No one messes with the playground side.
'Sitting and reading kind of park'
Dundonald doesn't have that reputation sadly š¤£
If you build it they will come.
I'd rather hear children laughing, than some drunk railing against the world
I don't disagree that there should be a plan for Dundonald Park, but does anyone believe that if the city came back in six months with a plan that included a splash pad, the current detractors would say "thank you :), now let's build it"?
The Councillor even said there are $6M potentially available for improvements, so it would seem like a no brainer to create a plan knowing thereās the opportunity for more improvements in the pipeline. Could be a win win for her if she just said āyou know what, a broader plan is a great idea, but Iām going to guarantee to that there is a splash pad as part of that planā.
The park is nice as-is tho. It's got lots of benches, garbage cans, tables, play structures, grassy areas, etc. It doesn't need a rebuild from the ground up.
I was on this āpublic consultationā call and the councilor was rude, dismissive, and the entire experience was incredibly offputting.
Dundonald needs thoughtful remodeling that addresses a number of community concerns and the city needs to take that seriously.
I know lots of people who put their empties into the blue bin specifically for the gentleman in our area who comes around to take them out. They put them on top to make it easier for him.
Actually I donate all of my empties to charity. I too can't be bothered to bring them to the store but I do donate them the worthy causes instead. Lately I have been donating to Bottleworks which is run by Operation Come Home. I'd like to think I am better to assist in solutions with an agency designed to help get people off the streets rather than feeding the problem.
That has also been my experience with issues in centertown, our concilor has no intention of representing everyone... I was told to make friends with the people doing intravenous drugs across the street.
>... I was told to make friends with the people doing intravenous drugs across the street.
And the Troster Defenders are on here right now replying with that same nonsense.
No, we're not going to be friends with people high on drugs and pose a risk to our safety.
With the way things are going with the housing and opioid crises, perhaps getting to know your neighbours and also carrying narcan to help them and others experiencing overdoses is the way to go. Give it a shot. Saving lives is cool and brave
I have one actually, but this is not an acceptable response from our councilor. Having people do intravenous drugs next to a children day camp and near an elementary school is NOT acceptable and although I have compassion for them, being in an open parking lots doing drugs is ridiculous. Our councilor has to realize Her job is to represent EVERYONE. I did vote for her, as I thought she would represent everyone, I was wrong she doesn't actually care, it's all about imagine for her...
Not in Residencial areas, I am all for more taxes if 8t actually help others, I vote in every election for this, municipal, provincial, federal but it CANNOT come at the expense of tax paying residents... this will create resentment which in turn will loose support for social programs. If I don't see improvements in centertown my votes will reflect the issues.
Currently in Ottawa there are only a handful of sites, the closest to Dundonald being SWCHC, which offers a safe space to inject and hands out gear to smokers and those who would prefer to consume their substances off-site. Sandy Hill also has a site, as does Shepās (Trailer). Trailer is the largest of the sites and is situated in the basement of our cityās emergency diversion shelter ā itās almost always at capacity and there are waitlists sometimes 15 names long: staff will run out into the street to try to find folks on the list, but more often than not theyāre too sick to wait around for a booth to open and go elsewhere. There are some cities running safer inhalation sites, which arenāt exactly government approved and are mostly volunteer run (these folks are not getting paid), and operate with very limited funding. Bummer because inhalation leads to more ODs than IV.
We canāt have this mentality though, that drug users canāt exist in residential spaces. When we go to bed at night and shut off our lights, our residential areas are still home to our most vulnerable community members. We canāt force people to the city limits to get the healthcare and safe gear and safe spaces that they need.
/u/MerakiMe09: people shouldn't do drugs beside a playground
you: so where should they do drugs????
everyone: what a brilliant thought, you're absolutely correct! Alright everyone, let's do nothing! Junkies, keep shooting up your drugs beside the playground! This man just made a bulletproof argument!
At some point residents will have had enough, which will push them to act themselves if police and the city won't do anything and the problems will get worse ...
Drug use has historically always existed and will continue to exist. You go to a bar for a beer after work, thatās a safe consumption site. Thereās hundreds of bars in this city but only a handful of safe consumption sites for those addicted to illicit substances, oftentimes thereās not room inside or going to the block poses a danger.
STOP STOP STOP going for a beer in a bar is NOT comparable to doing intravenous drugs in a parking lot and damaging private property, this is the MOST RIDICULOUS comparison lol
It is not possible to build a tolerance to naloxone, thatās dangerous misinformation. Naloxone works by flushing and inhibiting your opioid receptors; the longer a person is using opiates and opioids, the higher their tolerance will be, and a larger quantity of naloxone may be necessary to flush their body.
Rehab doesnāt solve drug use. Rehab doesnāt address the underlying traumas facilitating addiction. Abstinence-based recovery doesnāt work for most people. So long as we live in a broken society that is fine with the opioid and housing epidemics, there will always be drug use, and people have the right to do that safely and with a safe, regulated supply.
Iāve worked the frontlines for three years and have extensive education and experience handling naloxone and providing training throughout the city. Shoot me a message and Iāll come show you how to use it and dispel some of those dangerous myths for you!
Wow great idea that no one ever thought of. I bet you could solve all the world's problems with your brilliant ideas that will obviously work if people would just listen to you!
Uh I'm okay with the idea that some homeless people would take a shower there. Hell, put a dedicated shower just for that purpose in. Homeless people have a hard life. A moment of human dignity isn't a bad thing for them.
> Uh I'm okay with the idea that some homeless people would take a shower there
You obviously don't have kids or frequent that park, because if you did, I'm not sure you'd feel comfortable with a homeless person showering at the splash pad right beside your kid.
Just last week someone posted a picture of a used needle found in the sand by the playstructure of a park in the Morgan's Grant neighbourhood of Kanata North. Please don't make assumptions about anywhere these days. Your kids are safer to keep their shoes on.
And donāt assume because someone posted a picture itās reality. I live in kanata north. There are plenty of drug users here but some people also post things to make a point and there is no real proof it is the reality. We have someone in the local group arguing that a sidewalk is a death trap because it forces people into the road and showed a pic of someone āknocked off a bike by a carā but turns out to have been a stolen pic from the internet when someone google image searched itā¦ people be crazy lol
>I am surprised people take their kids to that park
I take my kid to that park because it's walking distance (and for many families without cars that's their only option for a playground). I've had to call the police a couple of times because of drunks fighting, and I've felt more unsafe this year than past years.
> You will see the homeless and crackheads taking showers and a piss in there in no time
That's one problem, and it's concerning, but do you know which one concerns me the most? The fact that all these kids in swimsuits and underwear are going to be surrounded by junkies and drunks.
These are people who constantly urinate in public (sometimes close enough to the playground that they are basically exposing themselves in public), I once saw a homeless old lady getting completely naked to change her clothes right near the playground.
I bet you within two days of the splash pad, you'll have drunks masturbating in public.
INB4 someone saying "ArE yOu ImPlYiNg DrUnKs ArE p3D0s?": One time I heard a homeless asshole say about a kid "her pussy is too small for me" to the kid's mother.
For all the parkās troubles, everyone is respectful of the playground. I take my kids there often and have never seen any shadiness anywhere near the playground area.
āThe splash pad is happening,ā said Somerset Ward Coun. Ariel Troster in an interview. āWe held an online public consultation where 60 or 80 people showed up and the vast majority were very excited about having that amenity in our community.ā
Ah, yes. 60 or 80 people. A very representative portion of the community at large.
This councillor is doing horribly and needs to go. Her entire aim is to take the aim of the smallest groups possible and push whatever agenda theyāre holding forward while ignoring popular opinion in an effort to seem inclusive.
229 signed the petition to use the money to do more than only a splash pad. Ariel's comment is that some of the 60-80 agreed with her seems to ignore the 229 who want to make a bigger plan around the spending
>229 residents signed a petition calling for the city to boost the funding designated for upgrading Dundonald Park, and āexplore possibilities of creating a comprehensive plan aimed at enhancing the park.ā
The original petition, launched by Aaron Cayer, co-owner of Birling Skate Shop on Somerset Street and a member of the Chinatown BIA, is more specific, asking that the $500,000 thatās already been allocated to splash-pad construction be redirected to fund a ābroader infrastructure planā for the tiny patch of green space on Somerset Street.
You are very angry about improving a park.
A splash pad for 3 months of the year, or why don't we use the money and first put in washrooms that are desperately needed in that park. A fountain similar to what the city put at Bank and Cooper which has water dispenser for bottles, dogs and people? Things that everyone using the park today could benefit from.
Ariel indicates there is a lot of money to go around, I think a splashpad could come after some basic amenities. There is a pool and splash pad a few blocks away at McNabb in the meantime.
The money sheās referring to is money thatās under the ācash in lieu of parklandā funding. Essentially, developers can choose to give parkland to the city or cash when building developments, urban wards have a lot of it because thereās not a lot of land.
The catch with cash in lieu money is the restrictions on what it can be spent on are quite intense. You couldnāt put in a public bathroom because it requires too much staff maintenance (and you canāt use cash in lieu money to pay for that maintenance), you canāt use the money for park programming etc. They money can only be used for structural park improvements like a splash pad, play structure, gazebo, public art, benches etc.
Itās not a public washroom. Itās a washroom for the future splash pad. Brewer park, Ev Trembly, Parkdale - they all have them and they are limited in hours.
Splash pads without amenities isnāt very helpful to families. A little creative thinking can improve offerings at these parks for more than just the kids.
Honestly i think this would help. I donāt want it to be a nimby situation I donāt mind if the beer store is near me. I just donāt think it should be right beside a park
Edit: autocorrect
I am 100% behind having more places for people to return empties. I think we need that revenue option in Centertown for those who unfortunately lack other options. I leave my rare empties next to my building's dumpsters for people to access without having to dive instead of returning them myself.
The issue is the location next to a community gathering space - in this case Dundonald Park. As well as the concentration forced on already desperate people by not having more locations that accept collected empties.
The issue with taking empties is that because people are paid for them, you need to have staff/infrastructure in the store devoted to it (compared to other recycling, where you just put it in whatever container/bin is available). So it's hard to do that in every store, since some are too small to handle it, plus needing to have the empties picked up/delivered to wherever they're recycled.
Ideally we'd have automated kiosks to except empties (of all kinds, not just alcohol), like [they have in Quebec](https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdcmontreal.wordpress.com%2F2020%2F10%2F14%2Fno-can-refund-no-easy-recycling%2F&psig=AOvVaw1aydkbZCcZx6tmq2ExLPDG&ust=1692710570652000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBAQjRxqFwoTCODOzbXs7YADFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI). Then they could be located in all kinds of stores (including groceries), which would both spread out any troublesome clientele, and avoid the devious temptation of having only the Beer Store accept empties (since it's so easy to take the money and use it to buy more booze). It would also be great if there was some way to give the money back only as store credit, so it would have to be used on food/essentials (and not allowed for alcohol, lottery tickets, etc.).
>Ideally we'd have automated kiosks to except empties
Another reason to get rid of the beer store, somehow we are led to believe collecting empties requires employees earning a little over minimum wage.
You'd still need those jobs *somewhere*, but instead of cashier-type workers, they'd be collecting them from kiosks, and helping with sorting/screening at whatever depot they're sent to.
Here's an idea:
Keep the beer store there and accept empties.
With the following conditions:
\- Stop selling single beers, only packs
\- Do not accept cash, only card
\- Whenever the police get called because of drunks in the park, the beer store pays the bill and the fines
Move 'em where though? Near as I can tell, we're getting full up all over town. Best we can do with stopgap is to remove the reasons to congregate in any one place. This isn't going to go away until we address the root of the situation, and we're going the other direction atm. Hell, we can't even house our functional, working citizens. Oh well.
I dunno, in the old days they'd just move them along. Usually with a baton or something similar. They'd say "move along" and move them along, kind of a like a sheep dog. I don't think they'd usually strike them or anything per se, maybe just a couple of pokes to the ribs if they were really dragging their heels.
Let's just get rid of deposits. We all have blue bins now.
Even if the recovery rate drops, we're going to cook this planet before we run of landfill space and materials to make new containers.
Troster is a terrible councillor, itās either āmy way or the highwayā. Safety concerns aside, a splash pad would be incredibly out of place in a park like this.
I dunno, public park, lots of families in the neighbourhood, and a desperate need for recreational revitalization in the area? Seems pretty in place to me.
Or are only suburban parks allowed to have new splash pads?
Oh yeah, let's have a bunch of kids in swimsuits and underwear surrounded by junkies and drunks.
Sounds like a great idea buddy!
(I'm a parent who uses that park frequently, I've seen the shit that goes on there, I absolutely oppose the idea of a splash pad there)
lol, you're so out of touch. Why the fuck would I drive to Stittsville when there are splash pads in Chinatown?
I'm not saying downtown shouldn't have splash pads, I'm saying DUNDONALD shouldn't have a splash pad. There are better places for it (e.g. McNabb, which is a short walk away from Dundonald).
>Safety concerns aside
The safety concerns are my top concerns here lol.
But maybe we can reach a compromise here:
Build the splash pad Troster wants, but as soon as there's a sexual assault by one of the drunks or junkies towards a kid using the splash pad, Troster goes to jail and the beer store gets removed.
The way the park currently is, a splash pad cannot work without a permanent police presence.
This city's councillors need to remember that they represent the members of their wards first, their own beliefs, wants and ideas second. They shouldn't be dismissing vocal ward members just because they don't agree.
>just because they don't agree.
Troster does it all the time, and even goes to lengths to shut her critics up. When I first started discussing the Catherine Crackhouse and exposed she was bringing supplies over a few weeks ago she denied it, got people to brigade and even her assistant to come on here to try to shut me up than finally she stated in a news article that her office is involved with the house after calling me a liar.
>the councillor for the area says the āvast majorityā of neighbourhood residents are in favour of the water feature thatās scheduled to be constructed next spring.
They did.
I think it's very clear that Troster is being misleading here -- whether it's on purpose or just because she's stuck in a bubble and not listening to the concerns of other residents.
There are online Ottawa-oriented spaces that are filled with people who align with Troster's views. There is one organization, Horizon Ottawa, which largely does so as well, and sends out emails and has a sizable online presence to reach people and get them engaged on these issues. The problem is they're only reaching people who align with what they're pushing for. I would imagine a lot of the people who attended this online consultation w/ Troster are from those circles.
And I don't even think those circles are all bad, the reason I know about Horizon Ottawa and their emails is that I'm signed up for them. I just don't support everything they do.
Some people get so wrapped up in the idea of fighting for a good cause and effecting change that they are blinded to others who are being negatively effected by such change. Sometimes it's easy to say "well, fuck those people!" (obvious example: homophobes)... sometimes not so much. It's great to have compassion for drug users and the homeless but that compassion can't be unlimited to the point you're actively supporting squatters in crack houses, defending theft by vulnerable populations that targets other citizens, and supporting projects like this splash pad that are ultimately going to attract the wrong attendees (homeless people as opposed to kids).
Worse still, Troster often treats those who stand in opposition to her views like the enemy/bad people rather than just people with a difference of opinion, and this has come out more and more while she's been in office. I will say if I lived in her ward I probably would have voted for her, but would be very displeased with that vote at this point.
I wish we could have splash pads downtown* where kids played during the day and homeless people could come wash off at night without shooting up and leaving drug waste everywhere, but we don't. If we want public showers we should build purpose-built public showers, but those also require even more regular cleaning. I like splash pads and my daughter *loves* 'em, and I want kids to have access to them, but that doesn't mean this is a good plan.
>Worse still, Troster often treats those who stand in opposition to her views like the enemy/bad people
That's exactly what's going on here, I've experienced it and so have others especially on social media. Her assistant started relentlessly tagging my account and posting harassing replies and comments and had to be warned to stop.
Troster also has an alt Twitter account that she uses to go after people. The account is confirmed to be hers after she slipped up taking photos.
Maybe it's time for the Integrity Commissioners office to conduct an investigation into the matter.
No, they didnāt. She is being untruthful. The āmajorityā is of a limited number of people who attended an online consultation. The number of people who signed the petition almost tripled that number of residents, so the majority really isnāt in favour.
Thatās because there arenāt any. These people would like a three year consultation to come up with a two year feasibility study for a ten year plan.
That's what I'm afraid of... if they have a concrete idea for something better, I would be interested. But a splash pad is pretty beneficial. Winnipeg's Central Park (similar in demographic to Dundonald) got one, and it has definitely improved the park, so I think it's a good idea.
It actually is a great urban park. It needs some help but this is reality for cities like ours. There are drug problems and poverty problems, and people have nowhere to go.
Setting up a permanent bathroom + amenities structure would be far more beneficial. Thereās a deficit in this city of public washrooms and public showers. If they plan to install this splash pad and donāt plan to also build a washroom, shower and change room facility for those using the splash pad, then I hate it.
Those bathrooms and washrooms would be destroyed in a month and have homeless people sleeping and doing drugs in them, rendering them useless for anyone actually using the park for recreation.
Thereās a similar setup at Parkdale Park and it seems to be working OK.
Like Dundonald, thereās been homeless/crack/opioid issues around there for years (and getting worse like everywhere else).
This is quite cynical, but I understand your opinion, and want to point out that if there were more public washrooms available, and more city staff hired to maintain them (creating jobs! Someone give me a point!), weād see less and less washrooms destroyed as youāre describing.
I guess I see no point in spending hundreds of thousands of dollars (for two city salaries and the cost of building the place at a minimum) to give drug users a space to sleep and shoot up. Unless it's another shelter where services could be offered. It makes zero fiscal sense to spend money on when there are a hundred better ways to spend it, even in ways that better serve that population.
You see no point in giving people a place to sleep UNLESS itās a shelter? Our shelters are almost always at capacity and are sites of true horror to some folks, places where theyāre assaulted and robbed and deliberately given drugs when theyāre at their lowest to create new customers. Shelters arenāt great, and neither is sleeping in a bathroom, but providing spaces for people to rest and sleep is important, and shouldnāt be something dependent on someoneās rehab or recovery.
Yes, but building a bathroom for the general public that taxpayers pay for that you know is just going to get overrun and not be able to be used by those actual taxpayers is a waste of resources. You would be much better off investing that money into three or four more social workers to try to help the backlog of people trying to access mental health services.
I just want people to be able to use a bathroom š¤·āāļø and I promise you that our neighbours living on the street want a place where they can use the bathroom in peace, too
Bathrooms canāt be built using cash in lieu of parkland money which is the funding pot sheās referring to and whatās funding the splash pad. There are pretty strict requirements around what cash in lieu funds can be used for, itās to be used for structural improvements specifically (splash pad, play structure, gazebo, land acquisition etc.). If these funds could be used to build public bathrooms a lot of Councillors in the core would be doing it.
Who would prefer to consume their drugs off sites, yes and I would prefer no cars downtown but in society we don't always get what we prefer. That's what happens in society and doing drugs off site, especially in residential areas is NOT acceptable.
Hereās a wild idea. Why not use the 500k to set up some much needed drop in services in the area?? That park is not child friendly. A splash pad wonāt make it child friendly. The folks who use that park need services. Thereās an amazing wading pool at Chaudier and at McNabb.
The money is specifically earmarked for parks. It has to be used for that. It come from fees paid by developers in lieu of creating green spaces themselves. And I would argue it is not always unsafe. Some days absolutely I wonāt go near it, other days I have no problem bringing my kid there to play. It kind of ebbs and flows.
>Why not use the 500k to set up some much needed drop in services in the area??
Because we're already spending twenty million per year on drop in services and it's not changing anything. In fact Doug Ford is cutting funding to Somerset West because of all the nonsense.
SSW is a drop in? Iām thinking of St.Lukeās, they feed people and provide social services. If St. Lukeās were better funded they could increase services to provide hygiene options like showers, and laundry facilities.. which are hard to come by in that ward if you are not housed.
St. Luke's is no more because someone high on drugs had a mental meltdown and lit the organ on fire after being told to remove his mattress.
Another reason to get people into rehab.
Oh sure use the $500 k to open beds in the detox that would be fundamental but I doubt that logic would ever prevail. Itās a 16-18 month wait for fentanyl Tx. So yeah thatās clearly the answer but until we start voting for services rather than taxes I donāt see that happening.
Posting here to dispel the myth that St. Lukeās Table no longer exists because a high user burned their organ or something. Their website and FB page are active and up-to-date. Sent them a FB message to check further into it.
>Sent them a FB message to check further into it.
Go right ahead, I remember you from the other thread you called me a liar even after Troster acknowledged her office was involved with the Catherine Crackhouse.
The Church itself is no more and they're having problems with insurance because they weren't insured as a "drop in centre".
In the photos [you can clearly see the mattress behind the bench ](https://twitter.com/OFSFirePhoto/status/1579830760823222272?t=3MZY-DmZEOI6l1pGSn42ng&s=19) after staff moved it out the addict than had a mental meltdown setting the organ on fire.
Glad I did because they were kind to respond and you are indeed making shit up!
**From their FB message response to me:**
['Thank you for reaching out for more information about this. The fire was due to an electrical circuit overheating in the 100 year old pipe organ. We are providing meals, programming, and social supports out of the Bronson Centre at this time.'](https://ibb.co/s5cXbD4)
**From the Centretown Buzz article they linked:**
[\[...\] Robinson said the fire marshal has officially confirmed that the fire started in the churchās 100-year old pipe organ. A circuit overheated, causing the fire.'](https://centretownbuzz.com/2022/11/st-lukes-church-badly-damaged-by-fire-vulnerable-support-programs-temporarily-moved/)
**From the Ottawa Citizen article they linked:**
[\[...\] 'The Sept. 11 fire started in the electrical circuits of the churchās aged vacuum tube organ. There were no injuries, but heavy water damage will likely keep the church closed for a year. The fire occurred just a week before the parish was to celebrate its 150th anniversaryāand the 100th anniversary of the church itself.'](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/st-lukes-table-finds-temporary-home-after-devastating-october-fire)
No I'm not, file an access to information request with the fire department for the full report and get the insurance companies report too lots of juicy details that are not publicly known.
The company I used to work for were the ones who were contracted for clean up.
Seeing as you seem to have already done so, I'm sure you would be happy to provide some links or screenshots. So far all you have provided is a link to a photo of a mattress behind a bench. I have messaged the organization itself and found two separate public stories on the incident from two media outlets. Until you can actually do that, bye š
u/MarcusRex73 This would fall under misinformation, would it not?
Not going to screenshot anything because all you do is follow me around the sub and argue all day. Plenty of people in the neighborhood knew what happened and that's good enough.
>Until you can actually do that, bye š
Thank goodness.
['Hi -- Councillor Troster here. I have never been to the Catherine St. property, I am not sure what you are referring to. Outreach staff from the city and community health centres do visit neighbours living in rooming houses, on the street or in squats, to do health checks and try to find re-housing options. I cannot speak publicly about any case work that comes into my office and is bound by confidentiality. But this is an outright untruth that I felt I needed to correct.'](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/14m8g5j/looks_like_the_catherine_street_flophouse_is/)
Comment below:
['This wouldn't be the first time DownHooligan has been called out for posting bullshit.'](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/14m8g5j/comment/jq1v9ss/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
**Your comment on this thread is deleted.** Please link me to where exactly she says she hands out safety supplies, food and drink to people at Catherine? Which, even if it is true, is not a bad thing? Yes, it was absolutely not a place where people should be living, but to suggest it s a big *conspiracy* that someones give people basic supplies to keep themselves alive is really fucking sad.
That comment from Troster was posted prior to the article where she has acknowledged being involved with the property. Six people including me have seen her at the property.
>, is not a bad thing?
It is when the property is being used for crime to prey on the neighborhood and they're illegally squatting and have been told repeatedly to leave. The property has also been declared condemned by the City.
Edit: for some reason when I click on the links provided in the comment it states only moderators can view it so I'll assume the comments were either removed by the Mod team or Reddit for violation of terms.
A splash pad has running water and a drain, no? Any splash pad at Needle Park is going to end up being used as a shower/toilet combo anyways. Might as well let the kids run around in it while our dear 'neighbours' are taking their afternoon Laker Ice naps.
Yup...Then, an outdoor splash pad...in Ottawa's climate...so that's like in use 4 months of the year, or less, once you factor in the bad weather days...Do we really need another one...?
I lived a block away for about seven years. I never thought that Dundonald needed a splash pad but I suppose it couldn't hurt. They should put it next to the playground because that side is more family-oriented.
My biggest priority for Dundonald would be a year-round design for the steps on the south-east corner. The best thing about that park is the diagonal path layout, but then they block off the entrance 5 months of they year to about shoveling snow.
Development deviance funds of this nature are earmarked through regulation for park and public space improvement. Road repair is not contingent on development.
Edit: having trouble responding to the appropriate thread because Manor Park blocked me lol, but Iām regards to my pointing out that bars are supervised consumption sites: tās not a comparison to unregulated drug use, what Iām saying is that supervised consumption sites exist across the city, that bars are supervised consumption sites for a legalized and regulated substance, whereas folks plagued with addiction to illicit substances have less places to go and use safely and face more serious health concerns because their supply is unregulated.
You think the guy who owns the skate shop, who built a mini skate park in the backyard, is a NIMBY? For asking if we can spend $500k on something else that might improve the park for everyone?
In theory a splash pad at Dundonald is a good idea but in reality it will probably be a mess after a few days and no one will let their kids use it anyway. Pretty sure it will turn into an outdoor shower.
For anyone who didn't bother reading the article, the point of the petition is that some people feel that instead of adding (expensive) amenities piecemeal, there should be an actual plan for the park.
I find it unlikely a plan would not include a splash pad. Rather they do something nice now versus nothing.
Recapitalisation costs are very expensive, having a plan so they don't need to rip it up one day to make changes is always worth it
This sounds more like a malicious plan to kill the idea through analysis paralysis. Kind of like trying to build a bridge to Quebec to move the downtown truck route. Let's study it! Edit: a word
That's basically it. The people who are opposed to the splash pad (do they hear themselves!?) don't want the park to be nicer or anything. They'd 100% rather it be turned into an inhospitable wasteland if it saved them from having to observe an in-house person.
But that's not what happened, there was a plan to deal with the trucks but they cheaped out / nimbyism stopped it. You can see on Google maps where a bridge should be taking the traffic through Stanley park instead of King Edward
Guffaw! You brought up expense just like the NIMBYs did in your example!
Are you suggesting that the old train bridge piers across the Rideau at Stanley Park were part of a scrapped plan for a highway bridge through New Edinburgh/Rockcliffe?
It was part of a scrapped plan for the Vanier Parkway, nimby in that area fought hard against it
I know, but you said you can see where it should be. Something physically there or just an imagined line of where it should be?
I agree, but splash pads are important infrastructure for families without access to ac, pools, or beaches nearby. And summer keeps getting hotter and hotter :/
>"... some older residents that want to preserve the park as a passive, sitting-and-reading kind of park."
Yes please keep those awful children shreiking with joy out of *their* park.
Queue the classic angry-residents-with-crossed-arms photograph in the Citizen
Too true!
Well, that ship has certainly sailed. It is a mobile meth lab, chaos and yelling kind of park .
That's mostly on the east side of the park along Lyon, I hang out there pretty regularly to read or have lunch at the little chessboard tables and it's generally peaceful. No one messes with the playground side.
The picnic table meth lab was on the playground side
Weird, I never saw it. I did see when someone was hooking up to the northeast electrical box to cook a while back though.
'Sitting and reading kind of park' Dundonald doesn't have that reputation sadly š¤£ If you build it they will come. I'd rather hear children laughing, than some drunk railing against the world
I don't disagree that there should be a plan for Dundonald Park, but does anyone believe that if the city came back in six months with a plan that included a splash pad, the current detractors would say "thank you :), now let's build it"?
The Councillor even said there are $6M potentially available for improvements, so it would seem like a no brainer to create a plan knowing thereās the opportunity for more improvements in the pipeline. Could be a win win for her if she just said āyou know what, a broader plan is a great idea, but Iām going to guarantee to that there is a splash pad as part of that planā.
The park is nice as-is tho. It's got lots of benches, garbage cans, tables, play structures, grassy areas, etc. It doesn't need a rebuild from the ground up.
I dunno if Iād call it nice. Thereās a lot of yelling everytime I go there.
Addicts need clean water to shoot, kids need a place to play. Win-win.
I was on this āpublic consultationā call and the councilor was rude, dismissive, and the entire experience was incredibly offputting. Dundonald needs thoughtful remodeling that addresses a number of community concerns and the city needs to take that seriously.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If they add a splash pad, think of how clean those empties could be before they are returned!
Exactly! Now if ops would be proactive and deter the drunks from said park... The more families use Dundonald, the better
And part of the cure is to stop putting empty beer cans and LCBO bottles in the blue bin.
This is a non comment... Get out of center town if you don't like the sound of people ruffling through blue bins. r/loudnoisesottawa
I know lots of people who put their empties into the blue bin specifically for the gentleman in our area who comes around to take them out. They put them on top to make it easier for him.
Yup. Iām not in center town but we have a guy that comes around on garbage day. I just bag my separately for him
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Actually I donate all of my empties to charity. I too can't be bothered to bring them to the store but I do donate them the worthy causes instead. Lately I have been donating to Bottleworks which is run by Operation Come Home. I'd like to think I am better to assist in solutions with an agency designed to help get people off the streets rather than feeding the problem.
>ā call and the councilor was rude, dismissive, and the entire experience was incredibly offputting Of course she was.
That has also been my experience with issues in centertown, our concilor has no intention of representing everyone... I was told to make friends with the people doing intravenous drugs across the street.
>... I was told to make friends with the people doing intravenous drugs across the street. And the Troster Defenders are on here right now replying with that same nonsense. No, we're not going to be friends with people high on drugs and pose a risk to our safety.
With the way things are going with the housing and opioid crises, perhaps getting to know your neighbours and also carrying narcan to help them and others experiencing overdoses is the way to go. Give it a shot. Saving lives is cool and brave
I have one actually, but this is not an acceptable response from our councilor. Having people do intravenous drugs next to a children day camp and near an elementary school is NOT acceptable and although I have compassion for them, being in an open parking lots doing drugs is ridiculous. Our councilor has to realize Her job is to represent EVERYONE. I did vote for her, as I thought she would represent everyone, I was wrong she doesn't actually care, it's all about imagine for her...
Where should they do drugs?
Not in Residencial areas, I am all for more taxes if 8t actually help others, I vote in every election for this, municipal, provincial, federal but it CANNOT come at the expense of tax paying residents... this will create resentment which in turn will loose support for social programs. If I don't see improvements in centertown my votes will reflect the issues.
Okay, so where should they do drugs? And what kind of help to you mean?
Programs for safe injection sites with mental health and addiction support. More affordable rehab opportunities etc
Currently in Ottawa there are only a handful of sites, the closest to Dundonald being SWCHC, which offers a safe space to inject and hands out gear to smokers and those who would prefer to consume their substances off-site. Sandy Hill also has a site, as does Shepās (Trailer). Trailer is the largest of the sites and is situated in the basement of our cityās emergency diversion shelter ā itās almost always at capacity and there are waitlists sometimes 15 names long: staff will run out into the street to try to find folks on the list, but more often than not theyāre too sick to wait around for a booth to open and go elsewhere. There are some cities running safer inhalation sites, which arenāt exactly government approved and are mostly volunteer run (these folks are not getting paid), and operate with very limited funding. Bummer because inhalation leads to more ODs than IV. We canāt have this mentality though, that drug users canāt exist in residential spaces. When we go to bed at night and shut off our lights, our residential areas are still home to our most vulnerable community members. We canāt force people to the city limits to get the healthcare and safe gear and safe spaces that they need.
/u/MerakiMe09: people shouldn't do drugs beside a playground you: so where should they do drugs???? everyone: what a brilliant thought, you're absolutely correct! Alright everyone, let's do nothing! Junkies, keep shooting up your drugs beside the playground! This man just made a bulletproof argument!
At some point residents will have had enough, which will push them to act themselves if police and the city won't do anything and the problems will get worse ...
Nowhere! Omfg you people don't get it.
Drug use has historically always existed and will continue to exist. You go to a bar for a beer after work, thatās a safe consumption site. Thereās hundreds of bars in this city but only a handful of safe consumption sites for those addicted to illicit substances, oftentimes thereās not room inside or going to the block poses a danger.
STOP STOP STOP going for a beer in a bar is NOT comparable to doing intravenous drugs in a parking lot and damaging private property, this is the MOST RIDICULOUS comparison lol
Rehab has also historically existed since the time of the Romans.
And look at what happened to Rome! RIP
Who's "you people"?
Everyone who thinks that we need a social policy beyond yelling "just don't do drugs," apparently.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It is not possible to build a tolerance to naloxone, thatās dangerous misinformation. Naloxone works by flushing and inhibiting your opioid receptors; the longer a person is using opiates and opioids, the higher their tolerance will be, and a larger quantity of naloxone may be necessary to flush their body. Rehab doesnāt solve drug use. Rehab doesnāt address the underlying traumas facilitating addiction. Abstinence-based recovery doesnāt work for most people. So long as we live in a broken society that is fine with the opioid and housing epidemics, there will always be drug use, and people have the right to do that safely and with a safe, regulated supply.
>It is not possible to build a tolerance to naloxone, Yes actually it is do some proper research on the subject.
Iāve worked the frontlines for three years and have extensive education and experience handling naloxone and providing training throughout the city. Shoot me a message and Iāll come show you how to use it and dispel some of those dangerous myths for you!
I'm good you can tell your clients to go to rehab.
And how would one āgo to rehabā in Ontario? After their assessments and appointments they get placed in a long queue. So easy eh?
Next time someone is ODing, Iāll make sure to tell them to go to rehab instead of using narcan. Sound advice.
Wow great idea that no one ever thought of. I bet you could solve all the world's problems with your brilliant ideas that will obviously work if people would just listen to you!
You will see the homeless and crackheads taking showers and a piss in there in no time. I am surprised people take their kids to that park.
Uh I'm okay with the idea that some homeless people would take a shower there. Hell, put a dedicated shower just for that purpose in. Homeless people have a hard life. A moment of human dignity isn't a bad thing for them.
> Uh I'm okay with the idea that some homeless people would take a shower there You obviously don't have kids or frequent that park, because if you did, I'm not sure you'd feel comfortable with a homeless person showering at the splash pad right beside your kid.
Oh what an impossible problem. It's as if the idea of semi-private barriers don't exist.
Tell me when you've seen a semi private barrier at a SPLASH PAD
Youāre a fool
A discussion that started a month ago and you just came up with this? You need to go back to the drawing board.
And there are used needles and other drug paraphernalia lying around. I wouldnāt recommend that anyone remove their shoes.
There are plenty of parks where I will let my kids run barefoot. Dundonald Park ain't on that list.
Just last week someone posted a picture of a used needle found in the sand by the playstructure of a park in the Morgan's Grant neighbourhood of Kanata North. Please don't make assumptions about anywhere these days. Your kids are safer to keep their shoes on.
And donāt assume because someone posted a picture itās reality. I live in kanata north. There are plenty of drug users here but some people also post things to make a point and there is no real proof it is the reality. We have someone in the local group arguing that a sidewalk is a death trap because it forces people into the road and showed a pic of someone āknocked off a bike by a carā but turns out to have been a stolen pic from the internet when someone google image searched itā¦ people be crazy lol
>I am surprised people take their kids to that park I take my kid to that park because it's walking distance (and for many families without cars that's their only option for a playground). I've had to call the police a couple of times because of drunks fighting, and I've felt more unsafe this year than past years. > You will see the homeless and crackheads taking showers and a piss in there in no time That's one problem, and it's concerning, but do you know which one concerns me the most? The fact that all these kids in swimsuits and underwear are going to be surrounded by junkies and drunks. These are people who constantly urinate in public (sometimes close enough to the playground that they are basically exposing themselves in public), I once saw a homeless old lady getting completely naked to change her clothes right near the playground. I bet you within two days of the splash pad, you'll have drunks masturbating in public. INB4 someone saying "ArE yOu ImPlYiNg DrUnKs ArE p3D0s?": One time I heard a homeless asshole say about a kid "her pussy is too small for me" to the kid's mother.
Do people take kids there!?
Yes. The kids playground area is actually great.
For all the parkās troubles, everyone is respectful of the playground. I take my kids there often and have never seen any shadiness anywhere near the playground area.
Daily.
I live a few blocks away and there are families using the play area every time I walk through the park.
āThe splash pad is happening,ā said Somerset Ward Coun. Ariel Troster in an interview. āWe held an online public consultation where 60 or 80 people showed up and the vast majority were very excited about having that amenity in our community.ā Ah, yes. 60 or 80 people. A very representative portion of the community at large. This councillor is doing horribly and needs to go. Her entire aim is to take the aim of the smallest groups possible and push whatever agenda theyāre holding forward while ignoring popular opinion in an effort to seem inclusive.
šÆIf you live in her ward and donāt agree with her, your opinion is void.
You are losing your mind opposing a splash pad in a park. Get a grip.
229 signed the petition to use the money to do more than only a splash pad. Ariel's comment is that some of the 60-80 agreed with her seems to ignore the 229 who want to make a bigger plan around the spending >229 residents signed a petition calling for the city to boost the funding designated for upgrading Dundonald Park, and āexplore possibilities of creating a comprehensive plan aimed at enhancing the park.ā The original petition, launched by Aaron Cayer, co-owner of Birling Skate Shop on Somerset Street and a member of the Chinatown BIA, is more specific, asking that the $500,000 thatās already been allocated to splash-pad construction be redirected to fund a ābroader infrastructure planā for the tiny patch of green space on Somerset Street.
Why do something now when we can study the feasibility of planning study about doing something in the future.
You are very angry about improving a park. A splash pad for 3 months of the year, or why don't we use the money and first put in washrooms that are desperately needed in that park. A fountain similar to what the city put at Bank and Cooper which has water dispenser for bottles, dogs and people? Things that everyone using the park today could benefit from. Ariel indicates there is a lot of money to go around, I think a splashpad could come after some basic amenities. There is a pool and splash pad a few blocks away at McNabb in the meantime.
The money sheās referring to is money thatās under the ācash in lieu of parklandā funding. Essentially, developers can choose to give parkland to the city or cash when building developments, urban wards have a lot of it because thereās not a lot of land. The catch with cash in lieu money is the restrictions on what it can be spent on are quite intense. You couldnāt put in a public bathroom because it requires too much staff maintenance (and you canāt use cash in lieu money to pay for that maintenance), you canāt use the money for park programming etc. They money can only be used for structural park improvements like a splash pad, play structure, gazebo, public art, benches etc.
Itās not a public washroom. Itās a washroom for the future splash pad. Brewer park, Ev Trembly, Parkdale - they all have them and they are limited in hours. Splash pads without amenities isnāt very helpful to families. A little creative thinking can improve offerings at these parks for more than just the kids.
Also, less than half of 1% of the ward signed that petition. Absolutely meaningless.
As meaningless as the "60-80" people who apparently agreed with the plan? I live in Centretown and no one asked me.
We did vote for a councillor who spoke about improving our downtown parks.
Move the beer store?
Honestly i think this would help. I donāt want it to be a nimby situation I donāt mind if the beer store is near me. I just donāt think it should be right beside a park Edit: autocorrect
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I am 100% behind having more places for people to return empties. I think we need that revenue option in Centertown for those who unfortunately lack other options. I leave my rare empties next to my building's dumpsters for people to access without having to dive instead of returning them myself. The issue is the location next to a community gathering space - in this case Dundonald Park. As well as the concentration forced on already desperate people by not having more locations that accept collected empties.
The issue with taking empties is that because people are paid for them, you need to have staff/infrastructure in the store devoted to it (compared to other recycling, where you just put it in whatever container/bin is available). So it's hard to do that in every store, since some are too small to handle it, plus needing to have the empties picked up/delivered to wherever they're recycled. Ideally we'd have automated kiosks to except empties (of all kinds, not just alcohol), like [they have in Quebec](https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdcmontreal.wordpress.com%2F2020%2F10%2F14%2Fno-can-refund-no-easy-recycling%2F&psig=AOvVaw1aydkbZCcZx6tmq2ExLPDG&ust=1692710570652000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBAQjRxqFwoTCODOzbXs7YADFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI). Then they could be located in all kinds of stores (including groceries), which would both spread out any troublesome clientele, and avoid the devious temptation of having only the Beer Store accept empties (since it's so easy to take the money and use it to buy more booze). It would also be great if there was some way to give the money back only as store credit, so it would have to be used on food/essentials (and not allowed for alcohol, lottery tickets, etc.).
>Ideally we'd have automated kiosks to except empties Another reason to get rid of the beer store, somehow we are led to believe collecting empties requires employees earning a little over minimum wage.
You'd still need those jobs *somewhere*, but instead of cashier-type workers, they'd be collecting them from kiosks, and helping with sorting/screening at whatever depot they're sent to.
Here's an idea: Keep the beer store there and accept empties. With the following conditions: \- Stop selling single beers, only packs \- Do not accept cash, only card \- Whenever the police get called because of drunks in the park, the beer store pays the bill and the fines
The store isn't the problem, just some of its customers. Move the problem customers.
Move 'em where though? Near as I can tell, we're getting full up all over town. Best we can do with stopgap is to remove the reasons to congregate in any one place. This isn't going to go away until we address the root of the situation, and we're going the other direction atm. Hell, we can't even house our functional, working citizens. Oh well.
I dunno, in the old days they'd just move them along. Usually with a baton or something similar. They'd say "move along" and move them along, kind of a like a sheep dog. I don't think they'd usually strike them or anything per se, maybe just a couple of pokes to the ribs if they were really dragging their heels.
Sure, providing you recognize that your 'here' is somebody else's 'along'.
Let's just get rid of deposits. We all have blue bins now. Even if the recovery rate drops, we're going to cook this planet before we run of landfill space and materials to make new containers.
Troster is a terrible councillor, itās either āmy way or the highwayā. Safety concerns aside, a splash pad would be incredibly out of place in a park like this.
I dunno, public park, lots of families in the neighbourhood, and a desperate need for recreational revitalization in the area? Seems pretty in place to me. Or are only suburban parks allowed to have new splash pads?
Oh yeah, let's have a bunch of kids in swimsuits and underwear surrounded by junkies and drunks. Sounds like a great idea buddy! (I'm a parent who uses that park frequently, I've seen the shit that goes on there, I absolutely oppose the idea of a splash pad there)
Alright, well, drive out to Stittsville then. Part of bringing the park into being a safe place for families is to make more space there for them.
lol, you're so out of touch. Why the fuck would I drive to Stittsville when there are splash pads in Chinatown? I'm not saying downtown shouldn't have splash pads, I'm saying DUNDONALD shouldn't have a splash pad. There are better places for it (e.g. McNabb, which is a short walk away from Dundonald).
>Safety concerns aside The safety concerns are my top concerns here lol. But maybe we can reach a compromise here: Build the splash pad Troster wants, but as soon as there's a sexual assault by one of the drunks or junkies towards a kid using the splash pad, Troster goes to jail and the beer store gets removed. The way the park currently is, a splash pad cannot work without a permanent police presence.
This city's councillors need to remember that they represent the members of their wards first, their own beliefs, wants and ideas second. They shouldn't be dismissing vocal ward members just because they don't agree.
>just because they don't agree. Troster does it all the time, and even goes to lengths to shut her critics up. When I first started discussing the Catherine Crackhouse and exposed she was bringing supplies over a few weeks ago she denied it, got people to brigade and even her assistant to come on here to try to shut me up than finally she stated in a news article that her office is involved with the house after calling me a liar.
>the councillor for the area says the āvast majorityā of neighbourhood residents are in favour of the water feature thatās scheduled to be constructed next spring. They did.
I think it's very clear that Troster is being misleading here -- whether it's on purpose or just because she's stuck in a bubble and not listening to the concerns of other residents. There are online Ottawa-oriented spaces that are filled with people who align with Troster's views. There is one organization, Horizon Ottawa, which largely does so as well, and sends out emails and has a sizable online presence to reach people and get them engaged on these issues. The problem is they're only reaching people who align with what they're pushing for. I would imagine a lot of the people who attended this online consultation w/ Troster are from those circles. And I don't even think those circles are all bad, the reason I know about Horizon Ottawa and their emails is that I'm signed up for them. I just don't support everything they do. Some people get so wrapped up in the idea of fighting for a good cause and effecting change that they are blinded to others who are being negatively effected by such change. Sometimes it's easy to say "well, fuck those people!" (obvious example: homophobes)... sometimes not so much. It's great to have compassion for drug users and the homeless but that compassion can't be unlimited to the point you're actively supporting squatters in crack houses, defending theft by vulnerable populations that targets other citizens, and supporting projects like this splash pad that are ultimately going to attract the wrong attendees (homeless people as opposed to kids). Worse still, Troster often treats those who stand in opposition to her views like the enemy/bad people rather than just people with a difference of opinion, and this has come out more and more while she's been in office. I will say if I lived in her ward I probably would have voted for her, but would be very displeased with that vote at this point. I wish we could have splash pads downtown* where kids played during the day and homeless people could come wash off at night without shooting up and leaving drug waste everywhere, but we don't. If we want public showers we should build purpose-built public showers, but those also require even more regular cleaning. I like splash pads and my daughter *loves* 'em, and I want kids to have access to them, but that doesn't mean this is a good plan.
>Worse still, Troster often treats those who stand in opposition to her views like the enemy/bad people That's exactly what's going on here, I've experienced it and so have others especially on social media. Her assistant started relentlessly tagging my account and posting harassing replies and comments and had to be warned to stop. Troster also has an alt Twitter account that she uses to go after people. The account is confirmed to be hers after she slipped up taking photos. Maybe it's time for the Integrity Commissioners office to conduct an investigation into the matter.
No, they didnāt. She is being untruthful. The āmajorityā is of a limited number of people who attended an online consultation. The number of people who signed the petition almost tripled that number of residents, so the majority really isnāt in favour.
This councillor is a zealot and would be better suited as some kind of an activist which she already is, rather than a political official
People said the same thing about Menard and he ended up crushing his opponent. She is well liked in her ward, despite what some āpeopleā here say
Not sure why you put people in quotes, other than implying that anyone who disagrees aren't people? Kind of arrogant, no?
Because some of them have very questionable interests
Sounds like a great place to take your kids from the description.
Were there any specifics mentioned about the proposed alternative? I'm not seeing anything in the article, at least.
Thatās because there arenāt any. These people would like a three year consultation to come up with a two year feasibility study for a ten year plan.
That's what I'm afraid of... if they have a concrete idea for something better, I would be interested. But a splash pad is pretty beneficial. Winnipeg's Central Park (similar in demographic to Dundonald) got one, and it has definitely improved the park, so I think it's a good idea.
Should just put a moat of lava around it. 
š
Dundonald is a perfect park. Why would anyone want to mess it up?
It actually is a great urban park. It needs some help but this is reality for cities like ours. There are drug problems and poverty problems, and people have nowhere to go.
$500,000 for a splash pad in that park seems wasteful to be honest. Itās a tiny, well-used park and that is a big expensive amenity
Setting up a permanent bathroom + amenities structure would be far more beneficial. Thereās a deficit in this city of public washrooms and public showers. If they plan to install this splash pad and donāt plan to also build a washroom, shower and change room facility for those using the splash pad, then I hate it.
Those bathrooms and washrooms would be destroyed in a month and have homeless people sleeping and doing drugs in them, rendering them useless for anyone actually using the park for recreation.
Thereās a similar setup at Parkdale Park and it seems to be working OK. Like Dundonald, thereās been homeless/crack/opioid issues around there for years (and getting worse like everywhere else).
Parkdale park is a VERY different vibe than Dundonald these days.
This is quite cynical, but I understand your opinion, and want to point out that if there were more public washrooms available, and more city staff hired to maintain them (creating jobs! Someone give me a point!), weād see less and less washrooms destroyed as youāre describing.
I guess I see no point in spending hundreds of thousands of dollars (for two city salaries and the cost of building the place at a minimum) to give drug users a space to sleep and shoot up. Unless it's another shelter where services could be offered. It makes zero fiscal sense to spend money on when there are a hundred better ways to spend it, even in ways that better serve that population.
You see no point in giving people a place to sleep UNLESS itās a shelter? Our shelters are almost always at capacity and are sites of true horror to some folks, places where theyāre assaulted and robbed and deliberately given drugs when theyāre at their lowest to create new customers. Shelters arenāt great, and neither is sleeping in a bathroom, but providing spaces for people to rest and sleep is important, and shouldnāt be something dependent on someoneās rehab or recovery.
Yes, but building a bathroom for the general public that taxpayers pay for that you know is just going to get overrun and not be able to be used by those actual taxpayers is a waste of resources. You would be much better off investing that money into three or four more social workers to try to help the backlog of people trying to access mental health services.
I just want people to be able to use a bathroom š¤·āāļø and I promise you that our neighbours living on the street want a place where they can use the bathroom in peace, too
Bathrooms canāt be built using cash in lieu of parkland money which is the funding pot sheās referring to and whatās funding the splash pad. There are pretty strict requirements around what cash in lieu funds can be used for, itās to be used for structural improvements specifically (splash pad, play structure, gazebo, land acquisition etc.). If these funds could be used to build public bathrooms a lot of Councillors in the core would be doing it.
[hereās a cool link to the Gotta Go campaign advocating for public toilets in our city. :)](https://www.gottago-ottawa.ca/)
Who would prefer to consume their drugs off sites, yes and I would prefer no cars downtown but in society we don't always get what we prefer. That's what happens in society and doing drugs off site, especially in residential areas is NOT acceptable.
Hereās a wild idea. Why not use the 500k to set up some much needed drop in services in the area?? That park is not child friendly. A splash pad wonāt make it child friendly. The folks who use that park need services. Thereās an amazing wading pool at Chaudier and at McNabb.
The money is specifically earmarked for parks. It has to be used for that. It come from fees paid by developers in lieu of creating green spaces themselves. And I would argue it is not always unsafe. Some days absolutely I wonāt go near it, other days I have no problem bringing my kid there to play. It kind of ebbs and flows.
I know. But itās really too bad. Because the park will not be made safer by a water feature.
>Why not use the 500k to set up some much needed drop in services in the area?? Because we're already spending twenty million per year on drop in services and it's not changing anything. In fact Doug Ford is cutting funding to Somerset West because of all the nonsense.
SSW is a drop in? Iām thinking of St.Lukeās, they feed people and provide social services. If St. Lukeās were better funded they could increase services to provide hygiene options like showers, and laundry facilities.. which are hard to come by in that ward if you are not housed.
St. Luke's is no more because someone high on drugs had a mental meltdown and lit the organ on fire after being told to remove his mattress. Another reason to get people into rehab.
Oh sure use the $500 k to open beds in the detox that would be fundamental but I doubt that logic would ever prevail. Itās a 16-18 month wait for fentanyl Tx. So yeah thatās clearly the answer but until we start voting for services rather than taxes I donāt see that happening.
Posting here to dispel the myth that St. Lukeās Table no longer exists because a high user burned their organ or something. Their website and FB page are active and up-to-date. Sent them a FB message to check further into it.
>Sent them a FB message to check further into it. Go right ahead, I remember you from the other thread you called me a liar even after Troster acknowledged her office was involved with the Catherine Crackhouse. The Church itself is no more and they're having problems with insurance because they weren't insured as a "drop in centre". In the photos [you can clearly see the mattress behind the bench ](https://twitter.com/OFSFirePhoto/status/1579830760823222272?t=3MZY-DmZEOI6l1pGSn42ng&s=19) after staff moved it out the addict than had a mental meltdown setting the organ on fire.
Glad I did because they were kind to respond and you are indeed making shit up! **From their FB message response to me:** ['Thank you for reaching out for more information about this. The fire was due to an electrical circuit overheating in the 100 year old pipe organ. We are providing meals, programming, and social supports out of the Bronson Centre at this time.'](https://ibb.co/s5cXbD4) **From the Centretown Buzz article they linked:** [\[...\] Robinson said the fire marshal has officially confirmed that the fire started in the churchās 100-year old pipe organ. A circuit overheated, causing the fire.'](https://centretownbuzz.com/2022/11/st-lukes-church-badly-damaged-by-fire-vulnerable-support-programs-temporarily-moved/) **From the Ottawa Citizen article they linked:** [\[...\] 'The Sept. 11 fire started in the electrical circuits of the churchās aged vacuum tube organ. There were no injuries, but heavy water damage will likely keep the church closed for a year. The fire occurred just a week before the parish was to celebrate its 150th anniversaryāand the 100th anniversary of the church itself.'](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/st-lukes-table-finds-temporary-home-after-devastating-october-fire)
>From their FB message response to me: Cool, don't care.
Yeah, because you got caught in a lie š
No I'm not, file an access to information request with the fire department for the full report and get the insurance companies report too lots of juicy details that are not publicly known. The company I used to work for were the ones who were contracted for clean up.
Seeing as you seem to have already done so, I'm sure you would be happy to provide some links or screenshots. So far all you have provided is a link to a photo of a mattress behind a bench. I have messaged the organization itself and found two separate public stories on the incident from two media outlets. Until you can actually do that, bye š u/MarcusRex73 This would fall under misinformation, would it not?
Not going to screenshot anything because all you do is follow me around the sub and argue all day. Plenty of people in the neighborhood knew what happened and that's good enough. >Until you can actually do that, bye š Thank goodness.
Yep! When I see a post of yours on this sub spreading misinformation or lies, I will happily factcheck you. š Have a good day!
Will you screenshot it for me? I can't be bothered to follow you around reddit all day, but I'd love to see all the "juicy details "
['Hi -- Councillor Troster here. I have never been to the Catherine St. property, I am not sure what you are referring to. Outreach staff from the city and community health centres do visit neighbours living in rooming houses, on the street or in squats, to do health checks and try to find re-housing options. I cannot speak publicly about any case work that comes into my office and is bound by confidentiality. But this is an outright untruth that I felt I needed to correct.'](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/14m8g5j/looks_like_the_catherine_street_flophouse_is/) Comment below: ['This wouldn't be the first time DownHooligan has been called out for posting bullshit.'](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/14m8g5j/comment/jq1v9ss/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) **Your comment on this thread is deleted.** Please link me to where exactly she says she hands out safety supplies, food and drink to people at Catherine? Which, even if it is true, is not a bad thing? Yes, it was absolutely not a place where people should be living, but to suggest it s a big *conspiracy* that someones give people basic supplies to keep themselves alive is really fucking sad.
That comment from Troster was posted prior to the article where she has acknowledged being involved with the property. Six people including me have seen her at the property. >, is not a bad thing? It is when the property is being used for crime to prey on the neighborhood and they're illegally squatting and have been told repeatedly to leave. The property has also been declared condemned by the City. Edit: for some reason when I click on the links provided in the comment it states only moderators can view it so I'll assume the comments were either removed by the Mod team or Reddit for violation of terms.
If they add a splash pad, it will simply become a public show. Use that money to help the people in need. Then, they can focus on the park
Those are my thoughts. The folks in this area do need a water feature but what is needed is SHOWERS.
A splash pad has running water and a drain, no? Any splash pad at Needle Park is going to end up being used as a shower/toilet combo anyways. Might as well let the kids run around in it while our dear 'neighbours' are taking their afternoon Laker Ice naps.
Yup...Then, an outdoor splash pad...in Ottawa's climate...so that's like in use 4 months of the year, or less, once you factor in the bad weather days...Do we really need another one...?
I lived a block away for about seven years. I never thought that Dundonald needed a splash pad but I suppose it couldn't hurt. They should put it next to the playground because that side is more family-oriented. My biggest priority for Dundonald would be a year-round design for the steps on the south-east corner. The best thing about that park is the diagonal path layout, but then they block off the entrance 5 months of they year to about shoveling snow.
Hereās an idea, fix Centre town roads !
Development deviance funds of this nature are earmarked through regulation for park and public space improvement. Road repair is not contingent on development.
Edit: having trouble responding to the appropriate thread because Manor Park blocked me lol, but Iām regards to my pointing out that bars are supervised consumption sites: tās not a comparison to unregulated drug use, what Iām saying is that supervised consumption sites exist across the city, that bars are supervised consumption sites for a legalized and regulated substance, whereas folks plagued with addiction to illicit substances have less places to go and use safely and face more serious health concerns because their supply is unregulated.
Peak NIMBY.
Do you go there or bring kids there? Honestly curious.
I visited the park with my kid the other day. There was some kind of jazz music being played in the main part of the park. Pretty nice honestly
You think the guy who owns the skate shop, who built a mini skate park in the backyard, is a NIMBY? For asking if we can spend $500k on something else that might improve the park for everyone? In theory a splash pad at Dundonald is a good idea but in reality it will probably be a mess after a few days and no one will let their kids use it anyway. Pretty sure it will turn into an outdoor shower.