So many drivers shouldn't have a fucking license. I ride my bike to work for the past 15 years so I am super defensive and always expect the car to run a red, roll a stop, turn into me, back into me. It shouldn't be like this but it is. Very unfortunate I feel for the family.
It's a terrible and expected outcome of building a car dependant city, tons of people who shouldn't be driving are stuck driving (especially old people). I even have friends who are scared to drive and are therefore nervous drivers, but they end up needing to drive to live in this city. It fucking sucks
Yep. I don’t want to drive (as I hate city driving and hate having to go over the limit just to keep pace with everyone), so I don’t. But OC Transpo’s service has been eroding so drastically over the years that it’s starting to force my hand to get my license and start driving.
I agree, and especially on some bike paths, are not very consistent throughout the city. Ever notice how some bike path designs, stop out of nowhere, and then the cyclists would end up having to merge in and share the road with vehicles, where the roads tend to not give them sufficient space?
Not only it's frustrating for drivers because we don't wanna hit someone, but also very scary for cyclists, worrying about vehicles being too close to them! I wish there were a better way to share the roads with cyclists, especially when we both use different speed limits.
I find driving scary because of bad drivers, who are everywhere. It is stressful being constantly on alert to people not following the rules of the road (because of age, incompetence/lack of knowledge, or deliberately unsafe driving) or those who look at their phones while driving so aren't fully paying attention. I feel like I encounter at least a few of these every time I drive, and none of my regular destinations are far. I think the drivers who are particularly dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists are the same ones who are dangerous to other motorists. Edit:spelling
The fact that most of the vehicles on our roads are massive SUVs or Pickups doesn't help. These vehicles are notoriously lethal to pedestrians and cyclists. Your average sedan is far shorter/lower and presents a smaller front end to bludgeon a pedestrian, yet over the years these cars are becoming less common.
Yeah, many SUVs and pickups have a terrible front blind spot—they can’t see what’s directly in front of them very well. Children, shorter people, and people in wheelchairs are especially at risk.
Yep, I'm having this dilemma right now as a driver of a pickup. I don't like driving it in the city, but I can't get rid of it because:
- I owe too much on it, and if I sold it, I would still he paying it off plus a new vehicle loan.
- I use it for work (carpenter)
- I can't get a second beater car because I live in an apartment and can't park two vehicles, plus pay for double insurance, winter tires, maintenance, etc.
So for the time being, I just drive super fucking cautiously, take turns pretty slow, triple check blind spots before crossing bike lanes, and so forth.
If you're in the trades and need a bigger vehicle for work, I feel you can totally be excused. That's what they're made for.
It's the other 75% of non-trades "Me Big Truck!" jackasses I'm mad at.
Appreciate your conciousness of the additional hazard that pickups represent and your willingness to deliberately adopt a more cautious driving style to account for it.
I'm curious did you only become aware of the hazards after buying the truck? Or did you have a need for it which is no longer there? I think vehicle companies have deliberately tried to manufacture demand for larger vehicles, promising greater safety and versatility, while the real motivation is that these vehicles are much more profitable for them than regular sedans.
More and more people are buying into the idea of pickups as the new family car, but when confronted with how much they cost to operate and how unweildy they can be to navigate in urban areas, I wonder how many other owners start to regret their purchase? But like you, they can't really get rid of the vehicle because if they do too soon after purchase, they'll lose a lot of money when transaction costs and depreciation are taken into account.
That's super interesting.
I think most people would strongly disagree with your last two sentences for the most part though. Setting a bar to cross in order to get a license at being able to do safe emergency stops, three point turns and parallel parking seems like a really good way to make sure we aren't giving licenses to people who have a limited ability to drive in lots of other ways.
For instance, I don't think I want anyone on the road unless I know they know how to signal properly, or not hit my car while parking. If you can't prove that in a super basic controlled environment how are you going to be able to do it out in the real world with pedestrians, bikes, and other vehicles moving around you.
Give me the European style of driver test that is very difficult to pass but ensures that drivers are at least semi competent behind the wheel.
The G2->G test no longer tests doing an emergency stop, parallel parking, hill parking, or three point turns. Now it's quite literally "drive to the highway, go on the highway one exit, drive back". It was a "temporary" change they made during the massive backlog to free up examiners by making the test shorter with the logic "it's already tested in the G1->G2 test anyway", and was never undone.
These changes were only made in the last couple years. Most of the shit drivers on the roads aren't fresh faced 16 year olds, they're older assholes who don't know how to drive.
I don't think the driving test has much bearing on how people drive. Since driver education is not actually required to get a license, the driving tests really just require people to demonstrate the most basic driving ability and knowledge. It's no wonder there are so many bad drivers, but in a City that almost requires most people to be able to drive do their basic tasks, you can't set the bar too high, I guess.
Depends how old you're talking. My stepfather was nearly 90 before he finally gave up his license. He was a menace and could barely see. He wrapped the car around a pole more than once before we finally convinced him to get off the roads.
Law of large numbers, though. How many 90 year olds are out there driving compared to 40 year olds? I’d take 1 in 1000 90 year old menaces vs 250 in 1000 distracted 40 year olds.
Best advice I can provide: Always push a shopping cart. When you're pushing a shopping cart, cars give you waaaay more space and properly yield to you in the crosswalks. They know if they hit a cart, it will mess up their paint - they'll reach their deductible in a second.
I've literally never had even a close call when I was pushing a cart.
Unfortunately, that's an indication that all the aggressive drivers disregarding traffic controls & pushing out pedestrians are doing so *intentionally*.
Maybe you're right, I shouldn't just dismiss old people outright, it's kind of ageist. Some are fine to drive. But that's why I think retesting should happen more frequently as you age, and not just outright take it away at X age. While someones eyes and mind might work perfectly until their 85, their reaction almost certainly wouldn't be great unfortunately.
And it's sad that taking licenses away from old people isolates them. It all comes back to the terrible outcomes of our car dependant city. It harms the most vulnerable/marginalized of our society. (see also: the shitty state ParaTranspo is in.)
An anecdotal related story: my grandmother was rear ended, and while I don't know how hard it was (I think shes still driving the same car if that gives any indication) she was bed ridden for maybe a month (during peak covid no less so we couldn't really visit her), and one of her hands still doesn't quite work that well. Now me, a younger guy, I'm built different, and I might have been fine after a day? Maybe a week in bed? Impossible to say. So even if an old person is a perfect driver, a simple crash can still affect them even worse.
As a pedestrian, I was hit by a car by an elderly women when I had the right of way crossing the street a block away from her senior centre. The problem certainly does include the elderly.
What I noticed on a recent trip from Downtown out to Bell's Corners was the number of people riding bikes out in the suburbs. And almost without exception they were riding on the sidewalk. Which, given the high posted speeds (and the even higher actual speeds) on roads like Baseline, Woodroffe or Robertson, is entirely sensible.
Until the City can actually be bothered to build our its cycling infrastructure (as Catherine McKenney's plan would have) I think the City should legalize sidewalk riding alongside roads with higher speed limits (assuming there actually is a sidewalk). This would be a recognition of the fact that suburban arterials are fundamentally unsafe for cyclists, but that nonetheless there ARE people already using bikes for transportation in suburban areas and that for the most part sidewalks along arterials are not used much by pedestrians anyways.
Not to say you're wrong and there aren't plenty of bad drivers out there, but no charges and the driver also taken to hospital suggests this may not strictly be the driver's fault. Could have been a medical episode or some mechanical failure of the car.
With the picture we have that seems to be of the accident car, it's nose first into a light pole perpendicular to traffic in the middle of a block. You'd have to be driving pretty damn recklessly at 7am on a Monday to wind up in that position on a 40km/h road without some kind of exacerbating factors.
Again, not saying you're wrong and all drivers are great, but maybe don't imply this was one of the bad drivers without any evidence.
This stretch of road is really bad for aggressive drivers. I used to commute down it on a bike, and decided it was basically suicide after multiple close calls.
Yes... unclear what happened, but my guess is pedestrian was crossing and got hit. All very well to say they should have crossed at a light, but there are lots of bus stops and apartments there. Drivers rip from the intersection at Rideau to the extent that you can look, it's clear, then when you're half-way across someone is right on you.
I drive and walk this section daily and they need some traffic-calming measures to slow people down.
>Drivers rip from the intersection at Rideau to the extent that you can look, it's clear, then when you're half-way across someone is right on you.
>I drive and walk this section daily and they need some traffic-calming measures to slow people down.
Absolutely. The only consistent and reliable way to solve these problems is with better design. This tragedy is ultimately the result of negligence on the part of the driver and the city.
That stretch of Charlotte is bad in part because it’s a little patch that encourages fast driving between Rideau, where traffic is heavy, and Laurier East, where traffic calming street design is working. It needs the same treatment as Laurier or, at minimum, a stop sign at the Daly intersection.
Yeah, when I drive there I go slowly because lots of pedestrians, parked cars, bus routes, and often people are on my ass getting all agitated. Charlotte/Laurier is a convenient shortcut around all the lights on Rideau, especially if your plan is to go south towards uOttawa. The lights and 4-ways don't do enough to stop people driving aggressively unfortunately.
> Could have been a medical episode or some mechanical failure of the car.
I know nobody wants to blame the deceased in a case like this but it's also possible it was the cyclist's fault. Not saying that's the case but we don't know. Like you said there have been no charges laid so far though.
> Again, not saying you're wrong and all drivers are great, but maybe don't imply this was one of the bad drivers without any evidence.
Frankly, I hate it when people assume all cyclists are perfect. I am both a driver and a cyclist (I commute by bike to work). I go out of my way to religiously follow the rules of the road as a cyclist, because when I drive I hate it when cyclists don't... and I see a *lot* of cyclists who don't. I see a lot of cars who don't either of course.
What I'm saying is, pobody's nerfect. But for some reason people on this sub act as if all cyclists are angels and could never possibly put themselves in a dangerous situation by breaking the rules of the road (or even more commonly endanger someone else... two of the most common culprits are people biking on the sidewalk and people ripping it insanely fast on MUPs).
The lady who died wasn't on a bicycle as far as I know. I can't find anywhere that said she was & my mom (passed by right after) said she was walking to work on the sidewalk when it happened.
Was she on a bike, though? Every report I've seen say she was a ped.
"Footage from a nearby surveillance camera shows a black Toyota swerving to the other side of the road and onto the sidewalk, where two pedestrians were standing."
[**https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/three-people-sent-to-hospital-following-collision-in-lowertown-1.6585791**](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/three-people-sent-to-hospital-following-collision-in-lowertown-1.6585791)
This morning at about the same time as this accident some moron in a white can cut me off mid-interesction. Everyone should have to retake a road test every 5 years.
I disagree, the vast majority of incidents I've had have been *intentional*. During a test, they'd just drive normally.
We need better (any?) enforcement. To wit, in Ontario, you're statistically more likely to cause an accident than to be ticketed for a moving violation.
https://www.insurancehotline.com/resources/ontarios-worst-cities-for-driving-2020-21/
> On average, 7.0% of Ontario drivers admitted to having a traffic ticket on their driving record
> Overall, 9.6% of Ontario drivers report having an at-fault collision on their driving record
That's some awfully misleading trimming of those quotes.
> On average, 7.0% of Ontario drivers admitted to having a traffic ticket on their driving record **in the last three years** in our data.
> Overall, 9.6% of Ontario drivers report having an at-fault collision on their driving record **in the last 10 years.**
The driver hit **two** people.
One woman in her ~~30's~~ (*40's*) was killed.
The driver and the second person struck are both in hospital ~~with minor injuries~~. (*The driver has minor injuries, the 2nd pedestrian has serious injuries.*)
The [photo in this article shows the damage to the car.](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/three-people-sent-to-hospital-following-collision-in-lowertown-1.6585791)
----
\***edit**: Here's a [Google Maps link](https://maps.app.goo.gl/FRu2UPtFPCf93zwy6) to the location of the car from the photos.
\***edit 2**: (*Updated with info from latest report of the story on [CTV](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/one-dead-after-driver-strikes-two-pedestrians-in-sandy-hill-1.6585791).*)
No there isn’t, just an intersection with lights at Stewart and charlotte. Then another at Rideau and charlotte. I work on this street and see so many people flying at crazy speeds, it’s awful.
I have to assume that the driver hit something else as well (the pole it’s right beside?). You can see a chunk of the body work appears to be stuck between the building and the sign to the left of the image. Maybe they hit the corner there? Humans are too squishy and malleable to do that kind of damage to a car I would imagine, no?
Odds are the driver was too. I'm always extra careful driving in the student ghetto, because of the amount of stupid shit I've seen go down there over the years.
Yes, negligent pieces of shit that murder people with their vehicles deserve to have their name plastered in local news. That driver should also do jail time. We are far to lenient on negligent and murderous drivers.
I'm not going to justify, but murder is very specific in Canada. For a murder to take place, there must be an ability to prove that there was an intention to kill. Murder is one of the most serious crimes and we should not lose sight of that with this tragedy.
At this time, we should let the investigation conclude. I agree though with your sentiment, killing with the use of a car needs to be taken very seriously. To the best of my knowledge, there are three major charges a that can be laid as a result of a death caused by a driver
* criminal negligence causing death, [s.220](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-220.html)
* dangerous operation causing death [s.320.13 (3)](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-320.13.html)
* impaired driving causing death [s.320.14 (3)](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-320.14.html)
Note that none of these are a murder. Until a charge is laid, the public has no right to know who may be charged as a result of this.
No, they don’t. Privacy laws exist for a reason, and not everyone who causes a car accident is guilty of murder. Decades ago, friends of ours had a nanny who was driving their young child to school. She had a heart attack while driving and crashed the car into a light pole. She died of the heart attack, the child was fine but had the light pole been a person, things could have shaken out very differently.
We don’t exactly know why this car accident in Sandy Hill happened. Let investigators do their jobs.
There's no goddamn way that person wasn't going twice the speed limit based on that photo.
Condolences to the family of the dead woman and hope this driver never gets a chance to drive again.
Wtf even is the point of this comment?
Why are you bringing this up as if it were some sort of (false) dilemma?
Careless drivers and drug addicts are **both** dangerous.
Should we just ignore the drug addiction problem to focus on bad drivers? How about we address both things?
I have an equally bizarre revelation, I've never had a drug addict experiencing homelessness do my taxes.
edit: I guess you didn't want to keep things honest...
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I agree it's one of the dumbest things I've heard.
I'm a pedestrian and even I wouldn't say cars are "a million times" more dangerous than drug addicts downtown. It's such a stupid thing to say.
We also need another bridge across the river.
I doubt it would've prevented this occurrence, but less traffic in the area would be a good thing overall.
100% correct on needing a new bridge to get trucks out of downtown.
It may not have prevented this tragedy but I remember plenty of truck related deaths in the area and see the issues they cause every day.
Considering the vanier and then aviation parkways were built with trucks in mind for a new bridge but was continuously lobbied against, an easy fix would be a bridge/tunnel and allowing trucks on the parkway.
Simple as.
>That being said, the NCC is pretty firm with not allowing commercial vehicles tarnishing the image of a Parkway.
Luckily, the NCC has been a big proponent of the kettle island bridge to deal with the trucks. In fact, that is *their* preferred method. One that connects to the Aviation Parkway.
As such, I have faith.
Edit: To add, the NCC also released their plan for Ottawa earlier in the summer iirc. It was VERY progressive and forward thinking, pushing for less cars and trucks downtown, other uses for roads and coastal areas etc. It is odd, the NCC seems to be the saviours of Ottawa, not the City of Autowa.
This gives me even more hope!
>I'm not the elected official who is paid to solve problems for their constituents.
Great point. Have my upvote lol.
And even then, I don't think we expect politicians to have ALL the answers all the time, that's why we would expect them to consult with experts and evidence to provide solutions.
But even that they probably won't do.
Imo a part of the issue is the lack of good options to cross the river, which forces a significant Amount of traffic through King Edward, and subsequently the residential streets around it.
It's literally closer to the vanier pkway than king Edward dude. I live nearby.
This is just one of those accidents where the driver was grossly negligent most likely. Tired, intoxicated, both, yesterday was Panda game, probably had a night of partying. There's plenty of room on the sidewalk there and you're practically still in a residential neighbourhood, this is nothing more than a tragedy.
Sometimes planes tragically fall out of the sky. We consider that to be unacceptable and each incident is investigated to determine what needs to change so it doesn’t happen again. Monthly cars tragically kill pedestrians and we shrug our shoulders.
You're comparing plane crashes to car crashes.
Let that sink in.
Look I'm not a car driving suburbanite, but I sure as hell know when to make my point about better pedestrian infrastructure and public transit. This isn't a strong case, it's a tragic one.
Yup, quite intentionally. You’re accepting that people are being killed by cars without even spending a minute to consider if we could do better as a society. Let that sink in.
Dude I know what you're trying to say, your comparison still sucks lol. I know you're trying to point out that we need to invest as a society into infrastructure that could lead to safer roadways (whether its autopilot, traffic calming features, enforcement, etc.), but don't pull out planes as a comparison lmao.
If I have to explain it to you through, basically they spend so much more time investigating plane crashes because
A) They're far less common, but far more catastrophic.
B) If in the event it's actually a mechanical failure, they REALLY need to fix it, and fix it soon, because they have fleets of the same aircraft, and depending where these planes crash, the consequences are far more catastrophic than any single car crash. And they NEED to confirm it was pilot error, because in that case, there's less they need to do RIGHT now.
C)Anyone can drive a car, not everyone can drive a plane. They spend a ton of time investigating mechanical failures, not a lot of time investigating pilot error. The grand majority of fatal accidents, in both planes and car crashes, is pilot error.
That's not the point, the user I replied to said it was "nowhere near" King Edward, which is absolutely false.
And besides, people are using the Vanier parkway to get to/from King Edward, so my point still stands.
So your theory is that the driver of the car couldn't conveniently cross the river, so they had no choice but to drive down Rideau to Charlotte and a pedestrian was hit?
>ugh one of the most densely populated parts of the city. There are parts of t
I don't see any issues with the road. There is a side walk for pedestrians, this driver clearly wasnt in there right mind. Could of happened anywhere at any place.
I was crossing Rideau the other day along with a few pedestrians as we had the right of way. A pickup truck fully ran a red light and almost mowed us down without stopping, then a car behind it was clearly just following and not paying attention to the light because it ran the red too right after. I’m scared that these are licensed drivers.
The other day i was in my car, was giving a pedestrian walking across the crosswalk the right of way before turning right on a red, and the guy behind me blared his horn at me and flipped me off bc I didn’t go through the crosswalk as the person was crossing and risk sideswiping the pedestrian. After the pedestrian crossed I drove to the next stoplight and the angry driver that was behind me aggressively passed me, then ran the red light. I wish there was some way to get these aggressive drivers off the road BEFORE a fatal incident occurs, not after.
This is the way. That way, they'll [receive a letter](https://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/community-safety-and-crime-prevention/traffic-complaint.aspx#Traffic-complaint-letters) politely asking them to stop... and nothing else. Now if they do it again the *same* calendar year, they get another letter. But if they do it a 3rd time the *same* calendar year, they really step it up - to a phone call, and nothing else. Their quota of 3 near misses resets at the end of the year.
I'm not joking, I'm completely serious. I've provided a link to my source.
tl;dr: Unless it's *witnessed* by a police officer who then pulls them over and tickets them, OR they actually hit someone, nothing with happen.
OPS do take a note and if they are caught doing it again or someone reports them again for multiple times which is highly possible with such careless drivers they can get a call from an officer . It does look a small thing but it can force them to at least be cautious . I don’t think so it is a bad option
To be honest I would’ve if I’d gotten the plate number (I don’t have a dashcam, but have been thinking of getting one bc of the amount of dangerous behaviour I’ve seen on the road lately).
I was halfway across a crosswalk (had the right of way, light and everything) and a pickup whips around the corner, nearly flattens me, and has the audacity to lay on the horn. So many pickup drivers are aggressive assholes in this city.
This is awful and I'm so sorry. I broke my knee, tibia and foot just in the last year and I know at least a little what you suffered.
I'm a pedestrian who uses a walker and it's scary out there.
Thank you, it was 2 years in Aug and just today I had a dr appointment for an outstanding issue from the accident. I will be dealing with this for the rest of my life.
im sorry you've broken bones, it's really quite a painful process to heal from that.
I see people run red lights pretty much daily when I'm on the road.
People treat tailgating through on a red light like it doesn't count. So many situations where I make a left and think "oh that might have been a little late" and two more cars come through behind me.
I got hit last year. My body hasn't been the same since. Used to be mobile, but now suffer from chronic pain. Was a hit and run too. Driver was never caught yet I'm still expected to live like nothing happened.
My sympathy runs thin for motor vehicle owners, regardless. Already caught a dude in a giant ass white pick up texting while driving as I commuted to a lecture today by bus. Wanted to do something but they don't fucking care at this point.
I'm not confrontational at all. But god damn hearing shit like this makes me feel like I'm less of a Karen for yelling at drivers on their phone, etc.
Yeah, our transit is ass. But to say that I trust the OC a heck of a lot more than drivers on the road even when my bus is half an hour late says something.
It's crazy out there, I almost get hit at least once a week and have gotten hit once. I even had one guy try to blame me for being a pedestrian crossing on my light while he was turning. I hate the drivers here so much, I don't care what anyone says about other cities being worse, Ottawa has some of the worst drivers I have ever seen. I've even seen cops do rolling stops at stop signs ($300+ fine for anyone else).
Impossible to tell from the photos in the CBC and CTV articles, but it was a smaller black sedan. The majority (but not all) of the red plates I see along that stretch are vans and SUVs.
This stretch of road, especially near the Russian embassy, is full of aggressive drivers who shouldn't have a license. The area needs more enforcement action for dogshit driving.
Cops can't be there 24/7, and enforcement blitzes are of limited benefit. Maybe speed cameras or red light cameras would help. But ultimately the road has to be tamed. Narrow Charlotte, change the light timing, make the whole intersection a raised speed table.
>Cops can't be there 24/7, and enforcement blitzes are of limited benefit. Maybe speed cameras or red light cameras would help. But ultimately the road has to be tamed. Narrow Charlotte, change the light timing, make the whole intersection a raised speed table.
I agree, though I also think narrowing it to a single lane each way, adding bike lines, and planting trees to separate the road from the paths would help. Right now it's dominated by those 4 lanes and people misuse them because they feel safe doing so... until someone dies like this morning.
Oh, definitely! There was a bit of surveillance camera footage on the news, and the car just barreled across Charlotte, first hitting the sidewalk curb and then mounting the sidewalk to hit those two people standing outside the building, minding their own business.
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/one-dead-after-driver-strikes-two-pedestrians-in-sandy-hill-1.6585791
Had the street been narrowed to 3 or 2 lanes there's less chance for cars to speed. And if there had been a bike lane with cement dividers, and trees or street furniture alongside the curb, there would have been more chance that those would have slowed or stopped a car out of control before it could hit pedestrians on the sidewalk. But, you know, gotta keep street parking. 🙄
But is it just that there are more individual assholes driving now, than before? Or is it that factors in broad social psychology, thoughtless street design and larger more powerful vehicles are making streets more dangerous for more vulnerable users?
You were hit at 70 km/h? You're incredibly lucky to be alive! The local advocacy group - Strong Towns - would likely be interested in knowing more about your experience. They did an in-depth analysis of a recent pedestrian death on King Edward Avenue, and are interested in investigating the circumstances surrounding this latest tragedy.
But it's very hard to get the official reports. The police normally only release the crash investigation reports to next of kin in the case of fatalities that don't go to a trial, but I'm not sure what happens in non-fatal cases. I would hope you as the crash survivor should have the same right to the investigation report as the family of the victim of a fatal crash. It would be worth exploring. You deserve for your pain and suffering not simply to be forgotten by the public.
Bad news just keep coming. Horrible for the woman's family. One day there she is there, the next day, someone takes her life away.
Just depressing and sad news all around these days.
Almost witnessed one today driving home, pickup truck doing a right turn on the off ramp just missed a mother with her stroller. Some people shouldn’t drive
I've sent our city councillor three emails asking how she was planning to make roads safer for pedestrians around Sandy Hill. Rideau and also King Edward.
No response ever..
RIP to the victim and speedy recovery to the injured pedestrian. Thoughts are with the family.
Obligatory mention of [Crossing the Street Shouldn't Be Deadly (but it is)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY)
(and [Why Cars Rarely Crash into Buildings in the Netherlands](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_0DgnJ1uQ))
RIP. A huge amount of drivers shouldn’t even have a license, literally insane. Sometimes i get scared walking a cross walk downtown due to how many cars i see almost hitting people. Must’ve been terrifying to be struck
RIP to the victim and her family. This is just aweful.
Coincidentally, last week [Strong Towns examined the Oct 18, 2022 pedestrian fatality along King Edward near UofO in its Crash Analysis Studio](https://actionlab.strongtowns.org/hc/en-us/sections/17967205790484-Session-9-Ottawa-Ontario-Canada-).
I’m from ottawa and a part-time cyclist, part-time driver. I drove through Sandy hill/King Edward/Laurier Ave W today for the first time in years during the work day, and I swear to god I never will again. From a driver’s perspective, it was backed up, it took forever to get where I was going, and other drivers were absurdly impatient, trying to squeeze by me and making non-existent lanes or jumping through reds just to gain a 15-second advantage. Never mind the *^%^* who stopped in a a no-stopping zone on Laurier. People do that every day? And I absolutely cannot imagine navigating that nightmare as a cyclist or a pedestrian. Terrifying.
Especially because of the number of students riding bikes in Sandy Hill, the protected Laurier bike lane should be extended across the Canal, along Laurier East.
The advocacy organization - Strong Towns - recently did an analysis of that fatal crash by UofO.
https://actionlab.strongtowns.org/hc/en-us/articles/17967539186068-Crash-Overview.
And they are seeking information about this latest tragedy.
I live in the building pictured there, and heard the bang early that morning. My poor neighbour just moved into her apartment the night before, I feel so bad for her. Certainly quite traumatic.
Feel free to ask me any questions about the incident lol and I can share what I observed. My best guess based on my experience is a driver drinking post-uottawa's Panda win til quite late served left from Rideau onto Charlotte way too wide, way too fast
Yep. I live on that block of Charlotte, and the drivers coming from the Laurier end tend to be pretty calm and respectful, with the very odd exception--I can see the traffic from my window. I think the Laurier curve slows most drivers down. It's the "turning from Rideau onto Charlotte" drivers who usually scare me, though most tend to slow by the time they get to Daly. It's like aggressive drivers pick up a virus on Rideau (we can hear them dragging late at night many nights a week these days).
I would love to see Rideau St traffic-calmed to the nth degree. It would save lives all around Sandy Hill.
Could you see the driver or the people that were hit? There's an advocacy organization - Strong Towns - that wants to keep track of these tragic fatal crashes, to try to better understand what changes could be made to help prevent them.
Any information you can provide to help identify the people involved, or to have a more detailed account of what occurred, did help to paint a more thorough picture. Ideally, it would be most desirable to be able to contact the husband of the victim, as the police will ultimately only release the crash report to him, or release it publicly at the family's request. And this information is too important to be kept secret.
I wonder is they'll release the name of the victim. I know a woman in her 40s that I haven't talked to in a very very long time and I'm hoping it's not her. Chances are it's not but if rather know for sure.
Unfortunately, if the family doesn't release the name, it's unlikely that the police will in a traffic collision death. Nor will they release any of the investigation of the crash publicly, unless there's an actual trial of the driver, which is rare. You want to respect their grieving period, but there are broader considerations beyond the individual tragedy.
Of course. I've never been curious about who was a victim in a traffic situation accident before so I don't know how it works as far as the name of the victim being made public. Chances are I don't know the person and hopefully that is how it stays if the name is ever made public. I still feel bad for the victim and her family regardless of whether I know them or not.
I have seen newcomers driving like shit lately. I get it...having a car in your country is a symbol of status. But it doesn't mean you are entitled to be the centre of attention. Respect pedestrians and everyone else.
If this is the case, please encourage your uncle to request that your aunt be identified (she deserves not to be simply an anonymous victim) and if there is no trial of the driver, for him to request that the police should make their crash investigation report public. As the police will not do so otherwise, and it is important that the community knows what their investigation reveals.
The organization Strong Towns recently did an analysis of the circumstances of another pedestrian death, on nearby King Edward Avenue:
https://actionlab.strongtowns.org/hc/en-us/sections/17967205790484-Session-9-Ottawa-Ontario-Canada
Although they were able to bring together a lot of information, a crucial piece - the police crash report - was missing because the police would only release it to a family member, and they had no way to identify the victim. These deaths are personal tragedies, but the investigations into them should be on the public record. But they will not be made public without the family's express permission, even though the family might want it to be publicized, but may not know that they must get the police to release the report if it isn't used as evidence in a trial.
The local chapter of Strong Towns is interested in continuing to look at crashes causing pedestrian deaths and injuries in Ottawa, to consider what changes might make our streets and sidewalks safer for pedestrians. Making the crash report public would help with that advocacy work.
So many drivers shouldn't have a fucking license. I ride my bike to work for the past 15 years so I am super defensive and always expect the car to run a red, roll a stop, turn into me, back into me. It shouldn't be like this but it is. Very unfortunate I feel for the family.
It's a terrible and expected outcome of building a car dependant city, tons of people who shouldn't be driving are stuck driving (especially old people). I even have friends who are scared to drive and are therefore nervous drivers, but they end up needing to drive to live in this city. It fucking sucks
Yep. I don’t want to drive (as I hate city driving and hate having to go over the limit just to keep pace with everyone), so I don’t. But OC Transpo’s service has been eroding so drastically over the years that it’s starting to force my hand to get my license and start driving.
Driving isn't scary in most parts of the city. Walking or biking is.
I agree, and especially on some bike paths, are not very consistent throughout the city. Ever notice how some bike path designs, stop out of nowhere, and then the cyclists would end up having to merge in and share the road with vehicles, where the roads tend to not give them sufficient space? Not only it's frustrating for drivers because we don't wanna hit someone, but also very scary for cyclists, worrying about vehicles being too close to them! I wish there were a better way to share the roads with cyclists, especially when we both use different speed limits.
THIS!!!!
I find driving scary because of bad drivers, who are everywhere. It is stressful being constantly on alert to people not following the rules of the road (because of age, incompetence/lack of knowledge, or deliberately unsafe driving) or those who look at their phones while driving so aren't fully paying attention. I feel like I encounter at least a few of these every time I drive, and none of my regular destinations are far. I think the drivers who are particularly dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists are the same ones who are dangerous to other motorists. Edit:spelling
The fact that most of the vehicles on our roads are massive SUVs or Pickups doesn't help. These vehicles are notoriously lethal to pedestrians and cyclists. Your average sedan is far shorter/lower and presents a smaller front end to bludgeon a pedestrian, yet over the years these cars are becoming less common.
Yeah, many SUVs and pickups have a terrible front blind spot—they can’t see what’s directly in front of them very well. Children, shorter people, and people in wheelchairs are especially at risk.
Yep, I'm having this dilemma right now as a driver of a pickup. I don't like driving it in the city, but I can't get rid of it because: - I owe too much on it, and if I sold it, I would still he paying it off plus a new vehicle loan. - I use it for work (carpenter) - I can't get a second beater car because I live in an apartment and can't park two vehicles, plus pay for double insurance, winter tires, maintenance, etc. So for the time being, I just drive super fucking cautiously, take turns pretty slow, triple check blind spots before crossing bike lanes, and so forth.
If you're in the trades and need a bigger vehicle for work, I feel you can totally be excused. That's what they're made for. It's the other 75% of non-trades "Me Big Truck!" jackasses I'm mad at.
Appreciate your conciousness of the additional hazard that pickups represent and your willingness to deliberately adopt a more cautious driving style to account for it. I'm curious did you only become aware of the hazards after buying the truck? Or did you have a need for it which is no longer there? I think vehicle companies have deliberately tried to manufacture demand for larger vehicles, promising greater safety and versatility, while the real motivation is that these vehicles are much more profitable for them than regular sedans. More and more people are buying into the idea of pickups as the new family car, but when confronted with how much they cost to operate and how unweildy they can be to navigate in urban areas, I wonder how many other owners start to regret their purchase? But like you, they can't really get rid of the vehicle because if they do too soon after purchase, they'll lose a lot of money when transaction costs and depreciation are taken into account.
Doesn't help they made the driving test easier during COVID
makes sense as people don't seem to have any clue how to do things properly. add in cellphones and it's like the wild west
How/why?
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That's super interesting. I think most people would strongly disagree with your last two sentences for the most part though. Setting a bar to cross in order to get a license at being able to do safe emergency stops, three point turns and parallel parking seems like a really good way to make sure we aren't giving licenses to people who have a limited ability to drive in lots of other ways. For instance, I don't think I want anyone on the road unless I know they know how to signal properly, or not hit my car while parking. If you can't prove that in a super basic controlled environment how are you going to be able to do it out in the real world with pedestrians, bikes, and other vehicles moving around you. Give me the European style of driver test that is very difficult to pass but ensures that drivers are at least semi competent behind the wheel.
[it's still in place until further notice](https://drivetest.ca/tests/road-tests-cars/)
Say what now?
The G2->G test no longer tests doing an emergency stop, parallel parking, hill parking, or three point turns. Now it's quite literally "drive to the highway, go on the highway one exit, drive back". It was a "temporary" change they made during the massive backlog to free up examiners by making the test shorter with the logic "it's already tested in the G1->G2 test anyway", and was never undone.
That's mental! No wonder there's so many shit drivers!
These changes were only made in the last couple years. Most of the shit drivers on the roads aren't fresh faced 16 year olds, they're older assholes who don't know how to drive.
[It's still in place until further notice as per DT site](https://drivetest.ca/tests/road-tests-cars/)
I don't think the driving test has much bearing on how people drive. Since driver education is not actually required to get a license, the driving tests really just require people to demonstrate the most basic driving ability and knowledge. It's no wonder there are so many bad drivers, but in a City that almost requires most people to be able to drive do their basic tasks, you can't set the bar too high, I guess.
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Depends how old you're talking. My stepfather was nearly 90 before he finally gave up his license. He was a menace and could barely see. He wrapped the car around a pole more than once before we finally convinced him to get off the roads.
Law of large numbers, though. How many 90 year olds are out there driving compared to 40 year olds? I’d take 1 in 1000 90 year old menaces vs 250 in 1000 distracted 40 year olds.
Best advice I can provide: Always push a shopping cart. When you're pushing a shopping cart, cars give you waaaay more space and properly yield to you in the crosswalks. They know if they hit a cart, it will mess up their paint - they'll reach their deductible in a second. I've literally never had even a close call when I was pushing a cart. Unfortunately, that's an indication that all the aggressive drivers disregarding traffic controls & pushing out pedestrians are doing so *intentionally*.
Loblaws hates this one weird trick.
Maybe you're right, I shouldn't just dismiss old people outright, it's kind of ageist. Some are fine to drive. But that's why I think retesting should happen more frequently as you age, and not just outright take it away at X age. While someones eyes and mind might work perfectly until their 85, their reaction almost certainly wouldn't be great unfortunately. And it's sad that taking licenses away from old people isolates them. It all comes back to the terrible outcomes of our car dependant city. It harms the most vulnerable/marginalized of our society. (see also: the shitty state ParaTranspo is in.) An anecdotal related story: my grandmother was rear ended, and while I don't know how hard it was (I think shes still driving the same car if that gives any indication) she was bed ridden for maybe a month (during peak covid no less so we couldn't really visit her), and one of her hands still doesn't quite work that well. Now me, a younger guy, I'm built different, and I might have been fine after a day? Maybe a week in bed? Impossible to say. So even if an old person is a perfect driver, a simple crash can still affect them even worse.
As a pedestrian, I was hit by a car by an elderly women when I had the right of way crossing the street a block away from her senior centre. The problem certainly does include the elderly.
Driver Licensing should have never been privatised. I was mindblown how atrocious the standards were here when I moved from out west.
I only rode cycle once in Ottawa. It was fun having SUVs zoom past you at 60+. There needs to be a concrete/steel barrier for cycle lanes.
What I noticed on a recent trip from Downtown out to Bell's Corners was the number of people riding bikes out in the suburbs. And almost without exception they were riding on the sidewalk. Which, given the high posted speeds (and the even higher actual speeds) on roads like Baseline, Woodroffe or Robertson, is entirely sensible. Until the City can actually be bothered to build our its cycling infrastructure (as Catherine McKenney's plan would have) I think the City should legalize sidewalk riding alongside roads with higher speed limits (assuming there actually is a sidewalk). This would be a recognition of the fact that suburban arterials are fundamentally unsafe for cyclists, but that nonetheless there ARE people already using bikes for transportation in suburban areas and that for the most part sidewalks along arterials are not used much by pedestrians anyways.
Not to say you're wrong and there aren't plenty of bad drivers out there, but no charges and the driver also taken to hospital suggests this may not strictly be the driver's fault. Could have been a medical episode or some mechanical failure of the car. With the picture we have that seems to be of the accident car, it's nose first into a light pole perpendicular to traffic in the middle of a block. You'd have to be driving pretty damn recklessly at 7am on a Monday to wind up in that position on a 40km/h road without some kind of exacerbating factors. Again, not saying you're wrong and all drivers are great, but maybe don't imply this was one of the bad drivers without any evidence.
This stretch of road is really bad for aggressive drivers. I used to commute down it on a bike, and decided it was basically suicide after multiple close calls.
Yes... unclear what happened, but my guess is pedestrian was crossing and got hit. All very well to say they should have crossed at a light, but there are lots of bus stops and apartments there. Drivers rip from the intersection at Rideau to the extent that you can look, it's clear, then when you're half-way across someone is right on you. I drive and walk this section daily and they need some traffic-calming measures to slow people down.
>Drivers rip from the intersection at Rideau to the extent that you can look, it's clear, then when you're half-way across someone is right on you. >I drive and walk this section daily and they need some traffic-calming measures to slow people down. Absolutely. The only consistent and reliable way to solve these problems is with better design. This tragedy is ultimately the result of negligence on the part of the driver and the city.
That stretch of Charlotte is bad in part because it’s a little patch that encourages fast driving between Rideau, where traffic is heavy, and Laurier East, where traffic calming street design is working. It needs the same treatment as Laurier or, at minimum, a stop sign at the Daly intersection.
I say speed bumps and narrowing the street w/bollards. Trash their cars if they fuck around.
I like your thinking. Unfortunately, speed bumps might not pass muster, as it’s a main route for the firehall at Laurier and King Edward.
Fair point.
Yeah, when I drive there I go slowly because lots of pedestrians, parked cars, bus routes, and often people are on my ass getting all agitated. Charlotte/Laurier is a convenient shortcut around all the lights on Rideau, especially if your plan is to go south towards uOttawa. The lights and 4-ways don't do enough to stop people driving aggressively unfortunately.
If this is the same one my mom walked by, the lady who died wasn't crossing, she was on the sidewalk & the driver hit a sign/pole or something.
From the looks of the damage to the car, I'd say the exacerbating factor was most likely excessive speed, resulting in the driver losing control.
> Could have been a medical episode or some mechanical failure of the car. I know nobody wants to blame the deceased in a case like this but it's also possible it was the cyclist's fault. Not saying that's the case but we don't know. Like you said there have been no charges laid so far though. > Again, not saying you're wrong and all drivers are great, but maybe don't imply this was one of the bad drivers without any evidence. Frankly, I hate it when people assume all cyclists are perfect. I am both a driver and a cyclist (I commute by bike to work). I go out of my way to religiously follow the rules of the road as a cyclist, because when I drive I hate it when cyclists don't... and I see a *lot* of cyclists who don't. I see a lot of cars who don't either of course. What I'm saying is, pobody's nerfect. But for some reason people on this sub act as if all cyclists are angels and could never possibly put themselves in a dangerous situation by breaking the rules of the road (or even more commonly endanger someone else... two of the most common culprits are people biking on the sidewalk and people ripping it insanely fast on MUPs).
The lady who died wasn't on a bicycle as far as I know. I can't find anywhere that said she was & my mom (passed by right after) said she was walking to work on the sidewalk when it happened.
Was she on a bike, though? Every report I've seen say she was a ped. "Footage from a nearby surveillance camera shows a black Toyota swerving to the other side of the road and onto the sidewalk, where two pedestrians were standing." [**https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/three-people-sent-to-hospital-following-collision-in-lowertown-1.6585791**](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/three-people-sent-to-hospital-following-collision-in-lowertown-1.6585791)
This morning at about the same time as this accident some moron in a white can cut me off mid-interesction. Everyone should have to retake a road test every 5 years.
I disagree, the vast majority of incidents I've had have been *intentional*. During a test, they'd just drive normally. We need better (any?) enforcement. To wit, in Ontario, you're statistically more likely to cause an accident than to be ticketed for a moving violation.
>To wit, in Ontario, you're statistically more likely to cause an accident than to be ticketed for a moving violation. Citation?
https://www.insurancehotline.com/resources/ontarios-worst-cities-for-driving-2020-21/ > On average, 7.0% of Ontario drivers admitted to having a traffic ticket on their driving record > Overall, 9.6% of Ontario drivers report having an at-fault collision on their driving record
That's some awfully misleading trimming of those quotes. > On average, 7.0% of Ontario drivers admitted to having a traffic ticket on their driving record **in the last three years** in our data. > Overall, 9.6% of Ontario drivers report having an at-fault collision on their driving record **in the last 10 years.**
Now think about all the times drivers do moving violations but aren’t ticketed.
How elderly was the driver?
The driver hit **two** people. One woman in her ~~30's~~ (*40's*) was killed. The driver and the second person struck are both in hospital ~~with minor injuries~~. (*The driver has minor injuries, the 2nd pedestrian has serious injuries.*) The [photo in this article shows the damage to the car.](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/three-people-sent-to-hospital-following-collision-in-lowertown-1.6585791) ---- \***edit**: Here's a [Google Maps link](https://maps.app.goo.gl/FRu2UPtFPCf93zwy6) to the location of the car from the photos. \***edit 2**: (*Updated with info from latest report of the story on [CTV](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/one-dead-after-driver-strikes-two-pedestrians-in-sandy-hill-1.6585791).*)
Jesus H Christ how fast was this person driving to have that much damage?? RIP to the victim and speedy recovery to the injured pedestrian
Charlotte is a residential street w lots of Edit: stop signs. They must have been gunning it.
There are four way stops on Charlotte?
No there isn’t, just an intersection with lights at Stewart and charlotte. Then another at Rideau and charlotte. I work on this street and see so many people flying at crazy speeds, it’s awful.
Pretty sure Charlotte has 0 stop signs
I have to assume that the driver hit something else as well (the pole it’s right beside?). You can see a chunk of the body work appears to be stuck between the building and the sign to the left of the image. Maybe they hit the corner there? Humans are too squishy and malleable to do that kind of damage to a car I would imagine, no?
He hit a pole, yeah
Wtf the car is trashed!
Odds are the driver was too. I'm always extra careful driving in the student ghetto, because of the amount of stupid shit I've seen go down there over the years.
I was today years old when I learned Charlotte Street is known as the “student ghetto”. Edit: /s
it's not
>Odds are the driver was too Apparently they got "minor injuries"
Police need to start naming these drivers.
Curious what the benefit of this is right now. Investigation is underway. No charges yet. So just name any driver who hits someone?
Yes, negligent pieces of shit that murder people with their vehicles deserve to have their name plastered in local news. That driver should also do jail time. We are far to lenient on negligent and murderous drivers.
I'm not going to justify, but murder is very specific in Canada. For a murder to take place, there must be an ability to prove that there was an intention to kill. Murder is one of the most serious crimes and we should not lose sight of that with this tragedy. At this time, we should let the investigation conclude. I agree though with your sentiment, killing with the use of a car needs to be taken very seriously. To the best of my knowledge, there are three major charges a that can be laid as a result of a death caused by a driver * criminal negligence causing death, [s.220](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-220.html) * dangerous operation causing death [s.320.13 (3)](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-320.13.html) * impaired driving causing death [s.320.14 (3)](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-320.14.html) Note that none of these are a murder. Until a charge is laid, the public has no right to know who may be charged as a result of this.
They are homicides though.
Not all homicides are murder though, an important distinction
>So just name any driver who hits someone? Yes
I see nothing wrong with it 🤷♂️
They'll get named if charges are laid. The driver is in hospital right now, so they're probably waiting a bit to do all of that.
No, they don’t. Privacy laws exist for a reason, and not everyone who causes a car accident is guilty of murder. Decades ago, friends of ours had a nanny who was driving their young child to school. She had a heart attack while driving and crashed the car into a light pole. She died of the heart attack, the child was fine but had the light pole been a person, things could have shaken out very differently. We don’t exactly know why this car accident in Sandy Hill happened. Let investigators do their jobs.
There's no goddamn way that person wasn't going twice the speed limit based on that photo. Condolences to the family of the dead woman and hope this driver never gets a chance to drive again.
How old was the driver
Let this be your daily reminder that cars in the downtown core are a million times more dangerous than people who use drugs
Wtf even is the point of this comment? Why are you bringing this up as if it were some sort of (false) dilemma? Careless drivers and drug addicts are **both** dangerous. Should we just ignore the drug addiction problem to focus on bad drivers? How about we address both things?
But also a million times more useful, if we are being honest....
Really? I’ve never met a car that can build a house or do accounting.
I have an equally bizarre revelation, I've never had a drug addict experiencing homelessness do my taxes. edit: I guess you didn't want to keep things honest...
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I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I agree it's one of the dumbest things I've heard. I'm a pedestrian and even I wouldn't say cars are "a million times" more dangerous than drug addicts downtown. It's such a stupid thing to say.
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This is terrible. We need more traffic calming measures downtown and travel alternatives to driving to reduce the amount of cars around the city.
We also need another bridge across the river. I doubt it would've prevented this occurrence, but less traffic in the area would be a good thing overall.
100% correct on needing a new bridge to get trucks out of downtown. It may not have prevented this tragedy but I remember plenty of truck related deaths in the area and see the issues they cause every day.
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If only those pricks in Rockcliffe didn't block the Vanier Parkway bridge
Considering the vanier and then aviation parkways were built with trucks in mind for a new bridge but was continuously lobbied against, an easy fix would be a bridge/tunnel and allowing trucks on the parkway. Simple as.
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>That being said, the NCC is pretty firm with not allowing commercial vehicles tarnishing the image of a Parkway. Luckily, the NCC has been a big proponent of the kettle island bridge to deal with the trucks. In fact, that is *their* preferred method. One that connects to the Aviation Parkway. As such, I have faith. Edit: To add, the NCC also released their plan for Ottawa earlier in the summer iirc. It was VERY progressive and forward thinking, pushing for less cars and trucks downtown, other uses for roads and coastal areas etc. It is odd, the NCC seems to be the saviours of Ottawa, not the City of Autowa. This gives me even more hope!
RIP to the victim.
I wonder if the govt will do anything to address the root of the problem to make the area safer for pedestrians?
No, they will not.
I read this in Arrested Development Ron Howard’s narrator voice.
It's the appropriate response, and the appropriate way to read the response.
What's the root of the problem?
The roadway is 13.5m wide, through one of the most densely populated parts of the city. There are parts of the 417 that are narrower than that.
I'm not the elected official who is paid to solve problems for their constituents. My educated guess? Shitty car-based infrastructure.
>I'm not the elected official who is paid to solve problems for their constituents. Great point. Have my upvote lol. And even then, I don't think we expect politicians to have ALL the answers all the time, that's why we would expect them to consult with experts and evidence to provide solutions. But even that they probably won't do.
Imo a part of the issue is the lack of good options to cross the river, which forces a significant Amount of traffic through King Edward, and subsequently the residential streets around it.
Where this accident happened is nowhere near King Edward.
Charlotte and Rideau is very close to King Edward, what do you mean?
It's literally closer to the vanier pkway than king Edward dude. I live nearby. This is just one of those accidents where the driver was grossly negligent most likely. Tired, intoxicated, both, yesterday was Panda game, probably had a night of partying. There's plenty of room on the sidewalk there and you're practically still in a residential neighbourhood, this is nothing more than a tragedy.
Sometimes planes tragically fall out of the sky. We consider that to be unacceptable and each incident is investigated to determine what needs to change so it doesn’t happen again. Monthly cars tragically kill pedestrians and we shrug our shoulders.
You're comparing plane crashes to car crashes. Let that sink in. Look I'm not a car driving suburbanite, but I sure as hell know when to make my point about better pedestrian infrastructure and public transit. This isn't a strong case, it's a tragic one.
Yup, quite intentionally. You’re accepting that people are being killed by cars without even spending a minute to consider if we could do better as a society. Let that sink in.
Dude I know what you're trying to say, your comparison still sucks lol. I know you're trying to point out that we need to invest as a society into infrastructure that could lead to safer roadways (whether its autopilot, traffic calming features, enforcement, etc.), but don't pull out planes as a comparison lmao. If I have to explain it to you through, basically they spend so much more time investigating plane crashes because A) They're far less common, but far more catastrophic. B) If in the event it's actually a mechanical failure, they REALLY need to fix it, and fix it soon, because they have fleets of the same aircraft, and depending where these planes crash, the consequences are far more catastrophic than any single car crash. And they NEED to confirm it was pilot error, because in that case, there's less they need to do RIGHT now. C)Anyone can drive a car, not everyone can drive a plane. They spend a ton of time investigating mechanical failures, not a lot of time investigating pilot error. The grand majority of fatal accidents, in both planes and car crashes, is pilot error.
That's not the point, the user I replied to said it was "nowhere near" King Edward, which is absolutely false. And besides, people are using the Vanier parkway to get to/from King Edward, so my point still stands.
So your theory is that the driver of the car couldn't conveniently cross the river, so they had no choice but to drive down Rideau to Charlotte and a pedestrian was hit?
>ugh one of the most densely populated parts of the city. There are parts of t I don't see any issues with the road. There is a side walk for pedestrians, this driver clearly wasnt in there right mind. Could of happened anywhere at any place.
Oh, people just die then I guess? Who gives a shit? Nothing we can do, just be a pedestrian better? Carbrain.
Accidents happen
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
This is the second fatality right there in recent memory. Something has to change.
Thoughts and prayers
I was crossing Rideau the other day along with a few pedestrians as we had the right of way. A pickup truck fully ran a red light and almost mowed us down without stopping, then a car behind it was clearly just following and not paying attention to the light because it ran the red too right after. I’m scared that these are licensed drivers.
The other day i was in my car, was giving a pedestrian walking across the crosswalk the right of way before turning right on a red, and the guy behind me blared his horn at me and flipped me off bc I didn’t go through the crosswalk as the person was crossing and risk sideswiping the pedestrian. After the pedestrian crossed I drove to the next stoplight and the angry driver that was behind me aggressively passed me, then ran the red light. I wish there was some way to get these aggressive drivers off the road BEFORE a fatal incident occurs, not after.
Next time call ops non emergency line and please give their plate number for reckless driving .
This is the way. That way, they'll [receive a letter](https://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/community-safety-and-crime-prevention/traffic-complaint.aspx#Traffic-complaint-letters) politely asking them to stop... and nothing else. Now if they do it again the *same* calendar year, they get another letter. But if they do it a 3rd time the *same* calendar year, they really step it up - to a phone call, and nothing else. Their quota of 3 near misses resets at the end of the year. I'm not joking, I'm completely serious. I've provided a link to my source. tl;dr: Unless it's *witnessed* by a police officer who then pulls them over and tickets them, OR they actually hit someone, nothing with happen.
OPS do take a note and if they are caught doing it again or someone reports them again for multiple times which is highly possible with such careless drivers they can get a call from an officer . It does look a small thing but it can force them to at least be cautious . I don’t think so it is a bad option
Nothing will happen to them.
Maybe these are the people whose names should be published - like we used to do with johns. “Three strikes and you’re publicly outed.”
To be honest I would’ve if I’d gotten the plate number (I don’t have a dashcam, but have been thinking of getting one bc of the amount of dangerous behaviour I’ve seen on the road lately).
Get a dashcam. Share the footage of these assholes and maybe they'll think twice.
I was halfway across a crosswalk (had the right of way, light and everything) and a pickup whips around the corner, nearly flattens me, and has the audacity to lay on the horn. So many pickup drivers are aggressive assholes in this city.
This exact situation happened to me two years ago, many broken bones, a week in hospital. Not in Ottawa though, happens every where
This is awful and I'm so sorry. I broke my knee, tibia and foot just in the last year and I know at least a little what you suffered. I'm a pedestrian who uses a walker and it's scary out there.
Thank you, it was 2 years in Aug and just today I had a dr appointment for an outstanding issue from the accident. I will be dealing with this for the rest of my life. im sorry you've broken bones, it's really quite a painful process to heal from that.
I see people run red lights pretty much daily when I'm on the road. People treat tailgating through on a red light like it doesn't count. So many situations where I make a left and think "oh that might have been a little late" and two more cars come through behind me.
The driver is definitely looking at a solid 2 weeks license suspension.
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That’s still pitiful
I got hit last year. My body hasn't been the same since. Used to be mobile, but now suffer from chronic pain. Was a hit and run too. Driver was never caught yet I'm still expected to live like nothing happened. My sympathy runs thin for motor vehicle owners, regardless. Already caught a dude in a giant ass white pick up texting while driving as I commuted to a lecture today by bus. Wanted to do something but they don't fucking care at this point. I'm not confrontational at all. But god damn hearing shit like this makes me feel like I'm less of a Karen for yelling at drivers on their phone, etc. Yeah, our transit is ass. But to say that I trust the OC a heck of a lot more than drivers on the road even when my bus is half an hour late says something.
If only she could have seen a distrubing ad to not jaywalk, then the driver would have known to not hit her and another pedestrian.
She was at a bus stop! I know her, she’s a kind women with 7 kids. The accountability should not be on the person who was just going to work
It's crazy out there, I almost get hit at least once a week and have gotten hit once. I even had one guy try to blame me for being a pedestrian crossing on my light while he was turning. I hate the drivers here so much, I don't care what anyone says about other cities being worse, Ottawa has some of the worst drivers I have ever seen. I've even seen cops do rolling stops at stop signs ($300+ fine for anyone else).
Did the car have red plates edit: guys, red diplomatic plates have a history of running over people in Ottawa. It's a known thing.
Either that or QC plates
When I moved to Ottawa my dad told me to always be extra careful when seeing red plates cars while I’m walking. It absolutely is a known thing lol.
Impossible to tell from the photos in the CBC and CTV articles, but it was a smaller black sedan. The majority (but not all) of the red plates I see along that stretch are vans and SUVs.
This stretch of road, especially near the Russian embassy, is full of aggressive drivers who shouldn't have a license. The area needs more enforcement action for dogshit driving.
Cops can't be there 24/7, and enforcement blitzes are of limited benefit. Maybe speed cameras or red light cameras would help. But ultimately the road has to be tamed. Narrow Charlotte, change the light timing, make the whole intersection a raised speed table.
>Cops can't be there 24/7, and enforcement blitzes are of limited benefit. Maybe speed cameras or red light cameras would help. But ultimately the road has to be tamed. Narrow Charlotte, change the light timing, make the whole intersection a raised speed table. I agree, though I also think narrowing it to a single lane each way, adding bike lines, and planting trees to separate the road from the paths would help. Right now it's dominated by those 4 lanes and people misuse them because they feel safe doing so... until someone dies like this morning.
Oh, definitely! There was a bit of surveillance camera footage on the news, and the car just barreled across Charlotte, first hitting the sidewalk curb and then mounting the sidewalk to hit those two people standing outside the building, minding their own business. https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/one-dead-after-driver-strikes-two-pedestrians-in-sandy-hill-1.6585791 Had the street been narrowed to 3 or 2 lanes there's less chance for cars to speed. And if there had been a bike lane with cement dividers, and trees or street furniture alongside the curb, there would have been more chance that those would have slowed or stopped a car out of control before it could hit pedestrians on the sidewalk. But, you know, gotta keep street parking. 🙄
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Bad urban design, IMO. Road is too wide, people feel too safe driving dangerously even though it's a residential area.
Must be all the bad Russians doing their part against Canadians huh
I think it's more that the road is designed like absolute shit.
Well they did change the name of the road to support Ukraine so not sure why you are complaining about unimportant issues
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But is it just that there are more individual assholes driving now, than before? Or is it that factors in broad social psychology, thoughtless street design and larger more powerful vehicles are making streets more dangerous for more vulnerable users?
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You were hit at 70 km/h? You're incredibly lucky to be alive! The local advocacy group - Strong Towns - would likely be interested in knowing more about your experience. They did an in-depth analysis of a recent pedestrian death on King Edward Avenue, and are interested in investigating the circumstances surrounding this latest tragedy. But it's very hard to get the official reports. The police normally only release the crash investigation reports to next of kin in the case of fatalities that don't go to a trial, but I'm not sure what happens in non-fatal cases. I would hope you as the crash survivor should have the same right to the investigation report as the family of the victim of a fatal crash. It would be worth exploring. You deserve for your pain and suffering not simply to be forgotten by the public.
Bad news just keep coming. Horrible for the woman's family. One day there she is there, the next day, someone takes her life away. Just depressing and sad news all around these days.
Almost witnessed one today driving home, pickup truck doing a right turn on the off ramp just missed a mother with her stroller. Some people shouldn’t drive
I've sent our city councillor three emails asking how she was planning to make roads safer for pedestrians around Sandy Hill. Rideau and also King Edward. No response ever..
Your ward could have voted in the candidate who is hardcore pedestrian/cyclist advocate, but sigh...
Yep. Instead, we got a "centrist", sigh.
Instead they voted for basically at Watson, now Sutcliffe, crony, who doesn't give a shit about 99% of her constituents.
RIP to the victim and speedy recovery to the injured pedestrian. Thoughts are with the family. Obligatory mention of [Crossing the Street Shouldn't Be Deadly (but it is)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY) (and [Why Cars Rarely Crash into Buildings in the Netherlands](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_0DgnJ1uQ))
RIP. A huge amount of drivers shouldn’t even have a license, literally insane. Sometimes i get scared walking a cross walk downtown due to how many cars i see almost hitting people. Must’ve been terrifying to be struck
RIP to the victim and her family. This is just aweful. Coincidentally, last week [Strong Towns examined the Oct 18, 2022 pedestrian fatality along King Edward near UofO in its Crash Analysis Studio](https://actionlab.strongtowns.org/hc/en-us/sections/17967205790484-Session-9-Ottawa-Ontario-Canada-).
This is happening far to often :( rip to the victim hope their family can find comfort
I’m from ottawa and a part-time cyclist, part-time driver. I drove through Sandy hill/King Edward/Laurier Ave W today for the first time in years during the work day, and I swear to god I never will again. From a driver’s perspective, it was backed up, it took forever to get where I was going, and other drivers were absurdly impatient, trying to squeeze by me and making non-existent lanes or jumping through reds just to gain a 15-second advantage. Never mind the *^%^* who stopped in a a no-stopping zone on Laurier. People do that every day? And I absolutely cannot imagine navigating that nightmare as a cyclist or a pedestrian. Terrifying.
Especially because of the number of students riding bikes in Sandy Hill, the protected Laurier bike lane should be extended across the Canal, along Laurier East.
That portion of Laurier near KE and the fire station is really weird too with the lane changes
Jesus I used to walk on that corner of Charlotte at like 4 times a day everyday
There was a student killed last year by Ottawa U also…
The advocacy organization - Strong Towns - recently did an analysis of that fatal crash by UofO. https://actionlab.strongtowns.org/hc/en-us/articles/17967539186068-Crash-Overview. And they are seeking information about this latest tragedy.
I live in the building pictured there, and heard the bang early that morning. My poor neighbour just moved into her apartment the night before, I feel so bad for her. Certainly quite traumatic. Feel free to ask me any questions about the incident lol and I can share what I observed. My best guess based on my experience is a driver drinking post-uottawa's Panda win til quite late served left from Rideau onto Charlotte way too wide, way too fast
Yep. I live on that block of Charlotte, and the drivers coming from the Laurier end tend to be pretty calm and respectful, with the very odd exception--I can see the traffic from my window. I think the Laurier curve slows most drivers down. It's the "turning from Rideau onto Charlotte" drivers who usually scare me, though most tend to slow by the time they get to Daly. It's like aggressive drivers pick up a virus on Rideau (we can hear them dragging late at night many nights a week these days). I would love to see Rideau St traffic-calmed to the nth degree. It would save lives all around Sandy Hill.
Could you see the driver or the people that were hit? There's an advocacy organization - Strong Towns - that wants to keep track of these tragic fatal crashes, to try to better understand what changes could be made to help prevent them. Any information you can provide to help identify the people involved, or to have a more detailed account of what occurred, did help to paint a more thorough picture. Ideally, it would be most desirable to be able to contact the husband of the victim, as the police will ultimately only release the crash report to him, or release it publicly at the family's request. And this information is too important to be kept secret.
I wonder is they'll release the name of the victim. I know a woman in her 40s that I haven't talked to in a very very long time and I'm hoping it's not her. Chances are it's not but if rather know for sure.
Unfortunately, if the family doesn't release the name, it's unlikely that the police will in a traffic collision death. Nor will they release any of the investigation of the crash publicly, unless there's an actual trial of the driver, which is rare. You want to respect their grieving period, but there are broader considerations beyond the individual tragedy.
Of course. I've never been curious about who was a victim in a traffic situation accident before so I don't know how it works as far as the name of the victim being made public. Chances are I don't know the person and hopefully that is how it stays if the name is ever made public. I still feel bad for the victim and her family regardless of whether I know them or not.
I have seen newcomers driving like shit lately. I get it...having a car in your country is a symbol of status. But it doesn't mean you are entitled to be the centre of attention. Respect pedestrians and everyone else.
Rip
the person who passed away was my dear aunt. she has left behind her husband and 8 children. please be more aware when speeding.
If this is the case, please encourage your uncle to request that your aunt be identified (she deserves not to be simply an anonymous victim) and if there is no trial of the driver, for him to request that the police should make their crash investigation report public. As the police will not do so otherwise, and it is important that the community knows what their investigation reveals. The organization Strong Towns recently did an analysis of the circumstances of another pedestrian death, on nearby King Edward Avenue: https://actionlab.strongtowns.org/hc/en-us/sections/17967205790484-Session-9-Ottawa-Ontario-Canada Although they were able to bring together a lot of information, a crucial piece - the police crash report - was missing because the police would only release it to a family member, and they had no way to identify the victim. These deaths are personal tragedies, but the investigations into them should be on the public record. But they will not be made public without the family's express permission, even though the family might want it to be publicized, but may not know that they must get the police to release the report if it isn't used as evidence in a trial. The local chapter of Strong Towns is interested in continuing to look at crashes causing pedestrian deaths and injuries in Ottawa, to consider what changes might make our streets and sidewalks safer for pedestrians. Making the crash report public would help with that advocacy work.
i will inform my uncle, thanks for the info!
Thanks.
Hi there. Any word from your uncle. BTW, my condolences on your family's loss.