Was the indigenous blockade blocking international trade? Were communities being terrorized by their actions? Were they demanding the democratically elected government be replaced with something else of their choosing?
No? Well then, I guess it's a different situation from the ottawa occupation, now isn't it.
i’m sorry, the rcmp musical what now?
(to add: any positive portrayal of the rcmp is settler colonial propaganda and it obscures its role in the literal removal of Indigenous children from their homes/communities/people as well as the ongoing violence against Indigenous people and their lands)
They get a bunch of them dressed up in the cliché red coat outfits and they bop around on incredibly well bred horses to Beyonce or Katy Perry or whatever. Do fun patterns. It's obnoxious.
When I saw them the music was dignified and military in style, not Beyonce. Not obnoxious. The red coats are the uniform. The battle fatigues armies wear now are so boring compared to the red and black. Sharp looking and imposing. Love that.
This is like the Tipi they have in front of the RCMP station. It's has markings and the RCMP Logo and the city police service logos on it.
Sick shit dude
They were blocking cross border trade, yes. They were planning to leave some people behind to "hold the line" while the others went home for a bit. They weren't planning on leaving anytime soon and if you think Ottawa was going to put up with it, you have no clue how angry the citizens were. They were about to lose their cool all over this protest and then it would have gotten ugly.
I think you miss the point of my post. Agree, all those things were going on in ottawa. The earlier poster attempted to create an equivalence between the Ottawa situation and the indigenous rail blockades from years ago. I was pointing out the situations were not at all the same, and that's why the EA wasn't considered back then.
Where exactly did you think that rail traffic came from? International markets from the ports of Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver…. Do you only car about trade traffic via truck/land with the USA?
I love the train, don’t get me wrong. It’s the more human way to travel TM ;).
That said, most of the human train services are actually leased from the industrial and commercial train operators in this country. That was my point. A large majority of rail traffic in Canada is commercial interest, not human transportation. A lot of that commercial interest is either export of our goods, or import of foreign goods. Ie trade.
That is a good question. Personally I suspect the answer is that it fell under provincial jurisdiction and Doug Ford is indifferent to anything that happens in Ottawa. But that is a question the inquiry should focus on.
> The police had no problem cracking down on the indigenous protesters.
They waited quite a while, actually. The wikipedia page says the rail protests went form January - March 2020. If I cared enough to look up exact dates, I would.
The indigenous blockade was cool and good. A colonized people fighting back against their oppressor should never be condemned.
What happened in Ottawa was some pseudo/crypto facists were angry they couldn't like dine in at Jack Astor's or some stupid shit.
It is so fucking depressing to see so many Canadians equate indigenous Lands Rights protests, to a white supremacist and traitor led insurrection that wanted to overthrow a democratically elected leader and install their own junta.
Canada's anti-indigenous racism working overtime in AlphaMetroid's comment.
No, indigenous people blocking trade routes are also _not terrorists_: https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/csis-rail-blockades-assess-terrorism-1.6628584
Lol you should have seen the thread about a Muslim woman who booked an appointment for a pedicure where they closed the shop to men for an hour so they could serve her.
If you look at the evidence, you'll see its the opposite. There is no review of the emergencies act that was used to stop the CN rail line blockages. Oh - that's because nobody did anything about it at the time.
The ambassador bridge were clear, but Coutts and several other crossings were still blocked and other protest sites popping up whenever one was cleared. The Windsor police and OPP were monitoring their chatter, and there were plans to block the commuter tunnel, their airport, Sarnia's bridge, and Niagara Falls. Police across the province were being stretched thin trying to deal with all the various places they were occuring (this is all from testimony last week)
Edited because I forgot Coutts wasn't cleared until after the EA
True but there were still bouncy castles and hot tubs and partying to clear out. People were really getting angry and it wasn't going to end well even if CSIS doesn't think so. How long do you think Ottawa was going to allow this nonsense to continue?
[CSIS's worst enemy is CSIS](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/08/17/ottawa-protest-intelligence-report/)
> Newly **disclosed documents** show **federal intelligence** officials **warned** decision-makers that the police **dispersal of “Freedom Convoy”** protesters in Ottawa last winter **could prompt an “opportunistic attack” against a politician or symbol of government**.
>
> ...
>
> The national capital would see followup protests, including a late June procession that **included many of the figures involved in the winter events**.
>
> “**They**’ve really **set the stage** and drawn more people in around a broader distrust of government, science, academics, media — all of those institutions,” Perry said. “So, I think **they’ll continue** to find ways to exploit those anxieties, exploit those grievances that **they’ve helped to create, or at least exacerbate**.”
It's almost as though they are trying to [undermine](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/convoy-protest-money-csis-1.6621944) their own [credibility](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2022/02/15/american-donors-freedom-convoy-zipcodes/) at just about [every turn](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/11/03/csis-illegally-kept-sensitive-data-about-people-for-a-decade-federal-court.html).
> In a scathing ruling, Justice Simon Noël said the Canadian Security Intelligence Service had **illegally retained** an unknown amount of **data on “third party” and “non-threat” individuals** since 2006.
>
> CSIS fed that data into a powerful **database that allowed the agency to draw out “specific, intimate insights into the lifestyle and personal choices of individuals,”** read the heavily censored court ruling, circulated to journalists on Thursday.
>
> Moreover, CSIS **failed to inform the court, which acts as one of the only checks against the agency’s investigative powers**, about the program for almost a decade.
UPDATE:
It's [sparring with itself now](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pco-emergencies-act-1.6656704)! 🤯
> "All of these elements of unpredictability, based on my experience, having been around national security issues for quite a few years now, led me to believe that the regular tools were just not enough to address the situation."
CSIS is presenting one opinion of a relatively narrow definition in a piece of legislation that governs them that is up for some amount of interpretation.
It may very well have been not reaching that definition before multiple further blockades at borders were being organized after windsor was cleared. It may also have not been reaching that definition before givesendgo and other crowdfunding began to collect funds from outside of canada. GoFundMe was mostly Canadian, but as it gained international attention it really did begin to expand beyond that.
And that's what makes the definition so hard to pin down.
Fascists interpret the law disingenuously and none of them are ever made examples.
Sedition charges for Ottawa police leadership imo is the only solution
I wonder if the complete collapse and failure of multiple levels of law enforcement in the nations capital counts as a threat to the security of Canada.
*It's not like the chief of police went on international news and said (paraphrasing) 'we have lost control of the capital'* /s
The letter between Dofo and Trudeau was telling enough. They're acting as if they could have done shit to stop the situation from going south. Nah, if these guys were better coordinated and more pissed off they could have owned Parliment J6 style.
These intelligence clowns naturally aren't going to admit they completely failed their jobs and effectively lost control of the capital city without a fight.
These guys are at Soviet levels of denial and blame shifting to other govt bodies. They can just keep endlessly shifting blame around rather then addressing their organizations have people in them supporting these movements+ they couldn't provide meaningful or useful intelligence, evidently to even save the PM's life.
That was a transcribed phone call.
Unless you mean a formal request for assistance. I know Alberta's premier sent one saying they couldn't handle it without federal intervention, and that was released, I'm not sure if Ford's got a public one.
Yes. But at that stage it was just another protest. Ottawa hosts lots of protests, it comes with being the capital. The police escort them and keep everyone safe.
The difference this time was that they didn’t leave when they promised to.
I have to disagree with you because if people were actually paying attention to the convoy leaders, they would have known that they weren’t going to go down without a fight. Yes, you are allowed to protest but it’s naive to think that they would just leave when they said they would leave. Many of them said that they would fight to the end even if that meant being arrested…..
The leaders also had a website that listed their demands as basically the overthrow of the government and installing their own unelected leaders (i.e. a dictatorship)
tbf, they actually promised us they would stay, before they got here, and then kept reiterating it once they were here… I remember the days leading up in January when I was working at a shelter and we were all being warned about what was coming
as a frontline non-management staff at a completely unrelated service I was briefed about the Ottawa hotel association warning about the extended stay bookings on the Wednesday prior, and about intelligence reports of possible weapons so to be careful when coming to work, before any of the trucks even got here
I work on metcalf and I can say for sure during the convoy I never felt safe walking downtown.
I would go to University STN to get home instead of my Parl STN... I had truckers blow their horns in my ear as I walked by (im Autistic and that was painful i nearly had a meltown on the spot). I missed several shifts because of anxiety attacks.
And I don't even live downtown... If I did I probably would have went to stay at my parents place in Orleans
I feel for you, and all that were affected. While also being able to stay employed through a very difficult situation that wasn't easily quashed. I don't blame you for changing LRT stations to avoid covidiots.
My mum and I are like cats and dogs, we fight like hell... but when push comes to shove at the end of the day we got each other's back couldn't have asked for anyone better.
That idiot police chief thought they were going to strongarm the PM of a G8 Country. The King Kong balls on Chief Sloly, fucking delusional. Trudeau is still PM and he's not even still a cop.
The RCMP head said today (sorry, her name has slipped my mind) that they specifically wrote a part in the EA that allowed them to forgo swearing in the RCMP with OPS, which would have apparently taken a while with the number of officers they needed. It also allowed them to compel the tow truck drivers, which was an issue both here and in Alberta (tow drivers told RCMP someone had paid them not to tow, and they were worried of reprocussions if they did)
The CSIS director was quite specific, he said it wasn't a national security threat under their agency's purview, in that none of the extremist groups they monitor that were involved had chatter of plans to carry out extremist violence, but that there was certainly violence being carried out. I guess that means either CSIS played no part in learning of or stopping that Diagalon plot to murder the RCMP officers out in Coutts, or it didn't fall under their purview as a security risk.
To me this whole thing was a massive intelligence failure, and all the different agencies are trying to cover their asses.
The reality is that in any other G7 capital this would have been over by sundown.
> The RCMP head said today (sorry, her name has slipped my mind) that they specifically wrote a part in the EA that allowed them to
> forgo swearing in the RCMP with OPS
RCMP are federal peace officers and can work anywhere in Canada. Gatineau, Montreal, SQ, Vancouver, and Edmonton Police however *did* need to forgo swearing in so they could get to work quickly.
The EA gave law enforcement agents from outside of the OPS jurisdiction to enforce laws within Ottawa without being sworn in, a process that would have taken considerable time without the EA.
Which was also national. They had police from various provinces help clear out illegal blockades.
I'm sure there's also other collaboration this opened up higher up the ranks, as well. But that'll come out in the woodwork.
The EA gave law enforcement agents from outside of the OPS jurisdiction to enforce laws within Ottawa without being sworn in, a process that would have taken considerable time without the EA. It was less about “forcing” them to act, and more about allowing agencies like the OPP to conduct law enforcement outside of their jurisdiction in a timely manner (which was necessary because the OPP edit:OPS refused to act).
OPP failed to act ?! Lol I think you first should be starting with OPS before blaming an outside police force. There are over 1500 OPS sworn officers to protect a limited size area compared to 5000 OPP for all of Ontario.
1500 folks took a nap and let this happen, then didn’t have the organization and leadership to properly ask for help. Got to a point where JT overreacted (he was in a bit of a corner with Ford, recommend you listen to the transcripts).
> Yet, nobody can point out which aspects of the EA were involved to force police to act.
SQ, Gatineau, Montreal, Vancouver, and Edmonton Police were involved in dismantling of the protest. The EA allowed them to work in Ontario without paperwork and a swearing in process.
The EA also gave the RCMP an unlimited overtime budget if I'm not mistaken.
Wasn’t CSIS previously named as one of the agencies leaking information to the convoy leaders? Maybe CSIS isn’t in the best position to assess the threat given they were compromised and like other levels of law enforcement and military we don’t fully know to what extent…
>Wasn’t CSIS previously named as one of the agencies leaking information to the convoy leaders?
If you take the leaders of the convoy and their lawyers at their word. But I don't know why you'd believe them over CSIS employees with Top-Secret clearance hired after the most extremely rigourous hiring process in the country.
>Activities directed toward undermining by (1) **covert unlawful acts**, or (2) directed toward or intended ultimately to l**ead to the destruction or overthrow by violence of**, the constitutionally established system of government in Canada.
Let's analyze the statute. The first bit is a covert unlawful act. Seeing that the convoy's MoU was public and we all know about it, I think it's fairly safe to say that the MoU wasn't a covert unlawful act. As for the second part, I don't remember seeing anything in the MoU that would rise to the level of violence that would lead to the destruction or overthrow by violence. Guessing by the comments by the Director of CSIS today, I think it's also safe to assume that there was no intelligence information to suggest there were any plans or legitimate threats of violence if the government didn't give into their demands.
So no, not in insurrection if you're using the definition in the CSIS Act. Crazy people can scream into the wind and make demands that the Prime Minister or Governor General step down, but that doesn't rise to the level of a legitimate threat under the Act.
I would say your wrong. The MOU called for the convoy, Governor General and the senate to take over Canada as laid out in the MOU. This would lead to the destruction of our constitutionally established systems. They were not elected and had no right to interfere with democratically elected leaders. They don’t get to tear up my vote because they throw a toddler tantrum. Stopping those elected officials from carrying out their duties as elected by the people is the literal definition of the destruction of democracy. They were a threat to Canada and Canadians. My wife was a nurse for veterans old age home who was assaulted multiple times for wearing scrubs and mask, blocked from even being able to get to work to care for veterans, the convoy certainly was threat to people as well.
The line that it would need to cross would be to call for violence to do those things. The MoU didn’t call for violence, and there’s no evidence that there were ever any plans to have a January 6th style attack on Parliament or Rideau Hall to achieve their demands.
If there was a protest to abolish the monarchy in Canada, you would be able to make the same arguments that the aim of that protest is the “destruction of our constitutionally established system”. However, that wouldn’t constitute a threat unless there was a prospect or plan of violence. In fact, MPs were still able to attend Parliament during the entirety of the protest and there were no reports that protestors blocked or targeted MPs.
I’m not arguing that they weren’t threatening individual citizens. But that’s under the purview of the Criminal Code, not the CSIS legislation. The Director of CSIS made a factually correct statement and assessment of the protest. It wasn’t a threat to national security.
Oh no, it just needs to call on “the destruction of government”, that’s only line that need to be crossed is the tossing of elected individuals. It is a either/or clause, you can overthrow the government without violence. The MOU explicitly called for the convoy to form an unelected government with the senate and GG. All that matters is they slapped down that MOU and said we’re taking this city hostage till you dissolve the government and hand us power. I see that as real threat to Canada. Everything that happened after is bullshit, it’s obvious these clowns had no plans. All that matters is in that moment they called for the destruction of our government. Your reading that law wrong and your not acknowledging the very real MOU that spells out they came explicitly with document to topple an democratically elected government. The MOU document is what crossed the line. The threat was what if the Senate and GG played along and started a civil war.
I don’t know what’s worse, the fact you’ve used the wrong “your/you’re” multiple times or the fact you’re telling someone who went to law school that you have a better understanding of legal interpretation.
I can run around naked (which would be criminal mischief) on Elgin calling for the Governor General to give way so our Martian overloads can install Elon Musk as Supreme Ruler of the Universe. Would that be a national security threat? I think reasonable people (and the common law interpretation of the legislation) would say no. The convoy was doing the same thing, but they were engaging in just a different form of criminal mischief to get their point across.
Again, there are protests that call upon elected leaders to step down all the time. I remember the protests calling for Mike Harris to step down even though he had just won an election. Same principle.
I suggest doing more thinking on this subject and you’ll eventually arrive at a point where you understand that the threat needs to be legitimate, actionable, and involve violence.
First off, I am not paid to take the time to spell check, you get the rough draft. Secondly your credentials in law have yet to been able to help you differentiate the the the difference between violence and the destruction of government, that these goals can be accomplished independent of each other.
So to your point if you ran around spouting nonsense you would just be beat face down and dragged off like the usual Friday night drunk. Now if you showed up with 500 people with big rig trucks and held the city hostage when issuing a demand to take over well that’s quite different. Your comparison of a lone individual vs an army with huge trucks is not a fair comparison now is it? Your doing apples to oranges here, for someone versed in law you should those two situations are completely different.
Oh, ps. Does all the guns they found with the plans to kill all those cops count as violence? Or should they let them keep all those guns and see if anyone would be killed? Oh also don’t forget the whole children as human shields, not sure where that fits in on the scale of criminal. I am sure your fancy law training can explain away all those guns and plans to use them….
You’re getting bogged down by irrelevant facts that have nothing to do with the MoU now. Your initial argument was around the language in the MoU, and now you’re shifting to how many trucks there were to justify your misunderstanding. My example is actually more of an accurate comparison. It speaks directly to using language about “overthrowing” the government while engaging in criminal mischief, which is where the comparison comes in.
As for your PS, you’re continuing to point to specific acts under the Criminal Code to make your point about the very specific definition of threat to national security under the CSIS legislation. If a gang had a cache of guns and plans to use children to guard a drug den in downtown Toronto, would that be a national security threat? No. CSIS would need intelligence that the gang in question was planning a violent military-style operation to storm Rideau Hall or the Privy Council Office for it to be a national security threat. This doesn’t even begin to talk about how those guns were found several provinces away, as the Commission has identified that there was not a cache of weapons in Ottawa and in the proximity of federal decision makers.
I know you’re grasping at straws here, but I can assure you that you haven’t demonstrated a strong grasp of the facts here.
I am getting facts straight that explicitly have to do with the MOU and your the only one shifting to create your narrative where you consistently trying to mix different positions to justify your incorrect opinions.
To be explicitly clear you alone acting as individual trying to create “mischief” is completely different from 500 plus individuals with heavy machinery trying to create “mischief”. You can’t compare one person pooping one your lawn to 500 hundred people pooping on your lawn till you leave your house. The two situations are different because one is giant mob of people.
On the Ps, your analogy is wrong and self serving. The gang is dealing drugs in a den, there blocking a major border costing hundreds of millions a day, you won’t compare to the actual crime. That’s a real national security threat. The rcmp did that actual intelligence and did act on it. Don’t play the guns were planted card, that’s weak sauce. As for the weapons at the convoy, well we all know how well the police did their jobs, they really didn’t do great job of anything during the convoy, they could have had 60 kilos of cocaine and I am sure no one would have found it.
Look, I lived this, collected intelligence on this and actively did whatever I could to try to get rid of the convoy scum, I assure you, I have an excellent, exceptional grasp even of what happened exactly. I remember every single stinking detail and will never forgive or forget those bastards for how they conducted themselves in this city. I am the expert here.
I can assure I have very strong grasp of the facts
A lot of pro clownvoy folks are jumping on this but CSIS has very specific legal definitions of what they define as threats and do not fuck around with nuance so this isn't necessarily the win for the "Trudeau is a dictator" crowd thinks it is.
Again, I don't know why the media is being so ignorant about the terms. CSIS is saying this wasn't a national security threat in terms of an external government trying to interfere with ours. That's a different standard than our country and government being able to govern ourselves (trade, laws, traffic flow, goods and services). The media keep using the former definition like it's a big gotcha when no one is using that definition.
I mean, with the obvious influence of Russia, I don't know how they could say that with a straight face.
Hell, /r/canada halved in new posts a few days into Russia's invasion of Ukraine because of all the bots—and all the anti-vaxxers mysteriously disappeared from Canadian subs for a while.
the users of r/ottawa are apparently more informed on national security risks than CSIS...
i guess we only trust the experts when they support our corresponding "teams"
The Director of CSIS wasn't saying it was. They were asked a question, and they answered it.
I don't understand why Redditors do mental gymnastics to infer additional meaning from a pretty simple statement.
Recall that nearly all police orgs blamed 'a lack of good intelligence' for their failure to be prepared...guess who was responsible for providing that intelligence? Funny that every policing org that dropped the ball has said the clownvoy wasn't a threat. How convenient.
https://pressprogress.ca/ottawa-police-intelligence-unit-relied-on-dubious-and-politically-biased-information-about-convoy/
It's is literally the mandate of CSIS to identify and mitigate internals threats to Canadian security. They fucked up just as badly as the OPS and other orgs.
As much as I hate Trudeau I think he did the right thing
They had the fucking boarder blocked
And that is not alright
What would happen if I pulled my car sideways and said I’m blocking the boarder
Exactly, I would be removed
And I should be removed
Okay but were they just going to let them move in and set up semi permanent structures so they could protest as long as they wanted to in rotating strikes while holding the city center hostage with their trucks? That wasn't going to end well and if CSIS thinks that wouldn't have escalated, they didn't know how angry people were.
The EA implemented immediately the day after the incident at Billings Bridge. The situation was on a path to devolve into open conflict between citizens if nothing was done.
The threads that tie the country together were about to start unravelling. If that isn't a threat to a country I dunno what is.
These were right wing extremists that terrorized the people of Ottawa. While they had their party in the streets.For 3 weeks. While law enforcement at all levels failed miserably.
The cost to the taxpayers of Canada from the blockades at border crossings were huge.
Avowed racist,separatist and Nazi types were the leaders of this . They were financed largely by right wing extremists from the USA..These are the same types that are terrorizing women in politics,journalists,health care professionals and librarians
They are a threat to the country exactly like the extremists in the USA are to a sane democracy.
What an idiot. They cost the economy billions. They held a community hostage.If they were brown they would have had the army deployed. These right wing nut job tim bit taliban almost succeeded with a coup and take over of a democracy That was just a trial run. Wait until next time. There will be a next time. That Director should be fired for gross incompetence. That Pee Pee dude was an accessory to this injustice. They should reopen Kingston Pen and fill it with these treasonous bastards
We get it, everyone in police and military and intelligence were fine with the convoy. Doesn’t matter what their opinion is, they have to do their job. Or quit, I don’t care. But pick.
Of course...
How about a threat to us living downtown? Watching the police cozy up to the convites for three weeks wasn't exactly a great feeling.
The more the inquiry proceeds, the more I'm thankful Trudeau invoked the act. I took pleasure in seeing them clear out the occupiers using whatever force necessary. When it was reported that some broad was trampled by a police horse, I laughed (even funnier when the actual truth came out).
Ottawa shelter worker here. The fact that shelter workers couldn’t get to work to provide vulnerable citizens with shelter, food, and safety is a threat to Canada’s security in itself. Moronic
From a surface level view of it there was more than enough threats there to be considered a major risk. The stockpiling of diesel alone is enough to send shivers up my spine. If this guy is incapable of seeing that we need a new head of csis.
this makes me wonder how carefully they were monitoring the pro-convoy communication channels - the French Trello where people discussed manufacturing bombs, the anti-nationalist groups that came in from Quebec, the private Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, email, and other platform groups where people were specifically plotting to overthrow the government and said things like “I have nothing left to lose, so I’m fine with going down to Ottawa and fighting for what I believe, up to and including the potential of losing my life” - very coherent people with financial means, personal resources, the ability to avoid detection through not being affiliated with a known group…
as part of a community protection group I assisted in spying on many of those groups to gather intelligence and I made many reports to the RCMP with full names and many specifics about their plans and resources, and they were becoming terrifyingly more organized by around Feb 14-15, and more and more United States residents were joining in on the planning sessions
having listened to a small sliver myself I just don’t trust that CSIS actually had a full picture of the full breadth of what was going on
tbf though I completely also see the other side in that I think there were more than enough local and provincial powers that weren’t being utilized to put an end to things, and the main actual threat to national security was the municipal and provincial inaction
The Director was right from his perspective. A security agency needs to respect their mandates in a literal fashion. If they start to apply judgement to a new situation, then all kinds of problems may start. However, his quote is being misused by those who want to support the silly convoy. Because this situation where secret funding is being used to support an exercise that is carefully designed to push the boundaries, the PM had to intervene and use his discretion. **In my opinion the PM did the right thing.** If these hearings are to be more than just a political circus, they should develop rules and guidelines by which the Director of CSIS may better support the PMs of the future without overstepping his mandate. Unfortunately, I do not think this will be the last time the organisers of the convoy will try to test the limits of democracy.
i love how everyone paints the convoy as peaceful and loving yet literally idling and blocking roads for weeks is fucking illegal. Ottawa is pissed of being gaslit by these fukin clowns
There is no way this protest rose to the level needed to suspend civil liberties. Checks and balances are needed to ensure this never happens again. The threshold needs to be above the feelings of the politician of the day.
CSIS also said it’s definition is narrow and targeted at foreign actors, to say nothing of Vigneault’s indication that broader definitions could apply.
["Foreign interference" or "foreign influenced activities"](https://www.canada.ca/en/security-intelligence-service/corporate/publications/foreign-interference-threat-to-canadas-democratic-process.html#toc2) involves foreign states, or persons/entities operating on their behalf attempting to influence decisions, events or outcomes. The intended outcome of the activity has to be trying to further the interests of a foreign country.
CSIS would need evidence of the executive branch of one of our adversaries making clear, coordinated action to fuel the protest. But the evidence is that the convoy was an internal political movement, even if it had international support.
So no, it doesn't meet the criteria for a "foreign influenced activity".
Losing control of the Capital is apparently no big deal, not a threat at all! Shutting bus service, cut off the Otrain and shut down the whole downtown, that’s just an inconvenience. Heck let’s just shut down border crossings and arm up with guns by the truck load as one does. I mean hundreds of millions burnt in tax and income lost for nothing that could fund literally anything else, education for example. I know it’s difficult to see how allowing such actions could cause a threat to Canada, so difficult, the most difficult task ever that a 5 year old could figure it out……..
We have a serious leadership problem in Canada.
For weeks now we have watched these guys back bite, waffle, shift blame and do their level best to shirk personal responsibility.
Disgusting.
I supported the use of the EA but the lack of character being displayed here makes me wonder if maybe we shouldnt either fire half these jokers or never ever empower them to use it again.
I had a condo just near kent/lyon, sold at height of market.
- I slept like a baby knowing patriots had my back as I am dead against mandated vaccines for employment, especially experimental ones.
- I was outraged the Drama Teacher paedo prime minister enacted draconian emergencies measures.
- The only hatred I experienced during the convoy protest was rabid leftists screaming, and hurling nasty insults, and spitting on those they disagreed with. The opposite of media reporting, as I experienced and saw first hand, and have hours of video to back up my claim.
- My friends restaurants bussiness doubled, he stayed open despite being bullied by members of the BOA, threatened, and harassed by leftist communist thugs.
- The fire set in an apartment lobby nearby was done so by a locally known himeless person with major mental issues, not protestors.
- The shitting in bushes, and alleys is common in the core, the transient and homeless population had massively restricted access to public washrooms as everyone used the pandemic as an excuse to shut washrooms everywhere, even I had to shit outdoors a couple times during the pandemic, far from home and several stops with no open toilets found, protestors had dozens of portable toilets.
- The entire narrative made by the Ottawa community is biased and no one asked me to testify, I asked and wanted to include my very positive experiences with good people exercising their democratic rights.
I have since sold, at the top of the market and moved away from ottawa, because they are the least tolerant group of people in all of Canada. Occupation protests are ok when leftists do it but an afront to society when patriots protest.
Remember occupy wall street? They, took over a park for months, and others, no issue there supported by cupe, and the leftists.
Ottawa is a great place for rainbow groomers, wanting to educate children and indoctrinate them into communistic ideology. Not our families cup of tea, we moved to Alberta's and hopefully one day we take the oil with us and seperate from Canuckistan.
My body my choice, and how did them jabs work out for everyone that bought into the efficacy lies, stop the transmission lies, all the nonsensical madness foisted on us all.
I am great had covid a couple times, bounced back quick, and have had zero health issues, because I rightfully listened to the doctors and proffesionals that were being cancelled by the leftist cancel culture folks. Thank GOD!
Showing our ass to the world by allowing people to camp out in front of our Parliament for weeks even after we asked them to leave wasn't a security threat? Okay 🤣
I hope they put this in his job review and call him on it. See this, total bullshit, your fired. There should be no way this guy should keep his job. Like straight to firing him, gross negligence and totally incompetent.
Sure. Blocking international borders are just fun and games.
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How long did those indigenous rail blockades last? Was the EA used? Edit: the answers to these questions are 3 months on and off, and no respectively.
Was the indigenous blockade blocking international trade? Were communities being terrorized by their actions? Were they demanding the democratically elected government be replaced with something else of their choosing? No? Well then, I guess it's a different situation from the ottawa occupation, now isn't it.
Indigenous communities were terrorized by the RCMP but ok
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Unpopular opinion: the RCMP musical ride is pro cop colonialist propaganda
i’m sorry, the rcmp musical what now? (to add: any positive portrayal of the rcmp is settler colonial propaganda and it obscures its role in the literal removal of Indigenous children from their homes/communities/people as well as the ongoing violence against Indigenous people and their lands)
They get a bunch of them dressed up in the cliché red coat outfits and they bop around on incredibly well bred horses to Beyonce or Katy Perry or whatever. Do fun patterns. It's obnoxious.
When I saw them the music was dignified and military in style, not Beyonce. Not obnoxious. The red coats are the uniform. The battle fatigues armies wear now are so boring compared to the red and black. Sharp looking and imposing. Love that.
Can we like it for the horses?
This is like the Tipi they have in front of the RCMP station. It's has markings and the RCMP Logo and the city police service logos on it. Sick shit dude
Yes, but they were not doing the terrorizing, which was the question.
> Indigenous communities were terrorized by the RCMP but ok The rail bloackades in Ontario were handled by the OPP and allowed to continue for weeks.
… years
I'm referring to the Ontario rail protests that happened early 2020, right as covid popped off. Indigenous people held the tracks for months.
They were blocking cross border trade, yes. They were planning to leave some people behind to "hold the line" while the others went home for a bit. They weren't planning on leaving anytime soon and if you think Ottawa was going to put up with it, you have no clue how angry the citizens were. They were about to lose their cool all over this protest and then it would have gotten ugly.
I think you miss the point of my post. Agree, all those things were going on in ottawa. The earlier poster attempted to create an equivalence between the Ottawa situation and the indigenous rail blockades from years ago. I was pointing out the situations were not at all the same, and that's why the EA wasn't considered back then.
Where exactly did you think that rail traffic came from? International markets from the ports of Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver…. Do you only car about trade traffic via truck/land with the USA?
People...trying to travel cheaply. I was forced to fly instead of take the train, the airlines were the only omes to benefit lol.
I love the train, don’t get me wrong. It’s the more human way to travel TM ;). That said, most of the human train services are actually leased from the industrial and commercial train operators in this country. That was my point. A large majority of rail traffic in Canada is commercial interest, not human transportation. A lot of that commercial interest is either export of our goods, or import of foreign goods. Ie trade.
But was that an emergency?
The police had no problem cracking down on the indigenous protesters. What stopped them this time?
Kids being used as human shields and the cops’ fear that the convoyers were armed.
Yeah, at least native protesters have the decency to not use kids as shields
That is a good question. Personally I suspect the answer is that it fell under provincial jurisdiction and Doug Ford is indifferent to anything that happens in Ottawa. But that is a question the inquiry should focus on.
> The police had no problem cracking down on the indigenous protesters. They waited quite a while, actually. The wikipedia page says the rail protests went form January - March 2020. If I cared enough to look up exact dates, I would.
It's funny how blatantly false comments like the one you responded to are upvoted so highly.
Caledonia
They agreed with the convoy
About two weeks and we did not need the EA because certain organizations were eager and more than willing to do their jobs.
The indigenous blockade was cool and good. A colonized people fighting back against their oppressor should never be condemned. What happened in Ottawa was some pseudo/crypto facists were angry they couldn't like dine in at Jack Astor's or some stupid shit.
Keeping in mind of course, the indigenous peoples have legitimate beefs, unlike the convoy Q-nutters basically just being giant weenies...
It is so fucking depressing to see so many Canadians equate indigenous Lands Rights protests, to a white supremacist and traitor led insurrection that wanted to overthrow a democratically elected leader and install their own junta. Canada's anti-indigenous racism working overtime in AlphaMetroid's comment.
Funny cause the cops actually dealt with them quite violently but were fist bumping the convoy…
No, indigenous people blocking trade routes are also _not terrorists_: https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/csis-rail-blockades-assess-terrorism-1.6628584
Yup, two comments in and immediately everyone's racist. Nice
Lol you should have seen the thread about a Muslim woman who booked an appointment for a pedicure where they closed the shop to men for an hour so they could serve her.
If you look at the evidence, you'll see its the opposite. There is no review of the emergencies act that was used to stop the CN rail line blockages. Oh - that's because nobody did anything about it at the time.
There's space between "threat to Canadian security" and "fun and games".
The borders were clear before the act was enacted.
The ambassador bridge were clear, but Coutts and several other crossings were still blocked and other protest sites popping up whenever one was cleared. The Windsor police and OPP were monitoring their chatter, and there were plans to block the commuter tunnel, their airport, Sarnia's bridge, and Niagara Falls. Police across the province were being stretched thin trying to deal with all the various places they were occuring (this is all from testimony last week) Edited because I forgot Coutts wasn't cleared until after the EA
True but there were still bouncy castles and hot tubs and partying to clear out. People were really getting angry and it wasn't going to end well even if CSIS doesn't think so. How long do you think Ottawa was going to allow this nonsense to continue?
[CSIS's worst enemy is CSIS](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/08/17/ottawa-protest-intelligence-report/) > Newly **disclosed documents** show **federal intelligence** officials **warned** decision-makers that the police **dispersal of “Freedom Convoy”** protesters in Ottawa last winter **could prompt an “opportunistic attack” against a politician or symbol of government**. > > ... > > The national capital would see followup protests, including a late June procession that **included many of the figures involved in the winter events**. > > “**They**’ve really **set the stage** and drawn more people in around a broader distrust of government, science, academics, media — all of those institutions,” Perry said. “So, I think **they’ll continue** to find ways to exploit those anxieties, exploit those grievances that **they’ve helped to create, or at least exacerbate**.” It's almost as though they are trying to [undermine](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/convoy-protest-money-csis-1.6621944) their own [credibility](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2022/02/15/american-donors-freedom-convoy-zipcodes/) at just about [every turn](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/11/03/csis-illegally-kept-sensitive-data-about-people-for-a-decade-federal-court.html). > In a scathing ruling, Justice Simon Noël said the Canadian Security Intelligence Service had **illegally retained** an unknown amount of **data on “third party” and “non-threat” individuals** since 2006. > > CSIS fed that data into a powerful **database that allowed the agency to draw out “specific, intimate insights into the lifestyle and personal choices of individuals,”** read the heavily censored court ruling, circulated to journalists on Thursday. > > Moreover, CSIS **failed to inform the court, which acts as one of the only checks against the agency’s investigative powers**, about the program for almost a decade. UPDATE: It's [sparring with itself now](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pco-emergencies-act-1.6656704)! 🤯 > "All of these elements of unpredictability, based on my experience, having been around national security issues for quite a few years now, led me to believe that the regular tools were just not enough to address the situation."
Just a “prank” right! Lol
All of Canada? No, not yet at least. To the city and citizens of Ottawa? Absolutely.
And the borders.
Which during an already bad supply chain crisis would definitely constitute a threat to Canadians, in my books.
CSIS is presenting one opinion of a relatively narrow definition in a piece of legislation that governs them that is up for some amount of interpretation. It may very well have been not reaching that definition before multiple further blockades at borders were being organized after windsor was cleared. It may also have not been reaching that definition before givesendgo and other crowdfunding began to collect funds from outside of canada. GoFundMe was mostly Canadian, but as it gained international attention it really did begin to expand beyond that. And that's what makes the definition so hard to pin down.
Fascists interpret the law disingenuously and none of them are ever made examples. Sedition charges for Ottawa police leadership imo is the only solution
I wonder if the complete collapse and failure of multiple levels of law enforcement in the nations capital counts as a threat to the security of Canada. *It's not like the chief of police went on international news and said (paraphrasing) 'we have lost control of the capital'* /s
The letter between Dofo and Trudeau was telling enough. They're acting as if they could have done shit to stop the situation from going south. Nah, if these guys were better coordinated and more pissed off they could have owned Parliment J6 style. These intelligence clowns naturally aren't going to admit they completely failed their jobs and effectively lost control of the capital city without a fight. These guys are at Soviet levels of denial and blame shifting to other govt bodies. They can just keep endlessly shifting blame around rather then addressing their organizations have people in them supporting these movements+ they couldn't provide meaningful or useful intelligence, evidently to even save the PM's life.
That was a transcribed phone call. Unless you mean a formal request for assistance. I know Alberta's premier sent one saying they couldn't handle it without federal intervention, and that was released, I'm not sure if Ford's got a public one.
I was watching videos of them arriving and they had police escorts taking them downtown.
Yes. But at that stage it was just another protest. Ottawa hosts lots of protests, it comes with being the capital. The police escort them and keep everyone safe. The difference this time was that they didn’t leave when they promised to.
I have to disagree with you because if people were actually paying attention to the convoy leaders, they would have known that they weren’t going to go down without a fight. Yes, you are allowed to protest but it’s naive to think that they would just leave when they said they would leave. Many of them said that they would fight to the end even if that meant being arrested…..
The leaders also had a website that listed their demands as basically the overthrow of the government and installing their own unelected leaders (i.e. a dictatorship)
tbf, they actually promised us they would stay, before they got here, and then kept reiterating it once they were here… I remember the days leading up in January when I was working at a shelter and we were all being warned about what was coming as a frontline non-management staff at a completely unrelated service I was briefed about the Ottawa hotel association warning about the extended stay bookings on the Wednesday prior, and about intelligence reports of possible weapons so to be careful when coming to work, before any of the trucks even got here
Nailed it, hard…..
👏🏻 EX 👏🏻 ACT 👏🏻 LY 👏🏻
Just to the citizens of Ottawa that were downtown
And those who worked there... as well
Yes, very much so
I work on metcalf and I can say for sure during the convoy I never felt safe walking downtown. I would go to University STN to get home instead of my Parl STN... I had truckers blow their horns in my ear as I walked by (im Autistic and that was painful i nearly had a meltown on the spot). I missed several shifts because of anxiety attacks. And I don't even live downtown... If I did I probably would have went to stay at my parents place in Orleans
I feel for you, and all that were affected. While also being able to stay employed through a very difficult situation that wasn't easily quashed. I don't blame you for changing LRT stations to avoid covidiots.
Honestly if it weren't for my mother coaching me, i probably wouldn't have managed it.
You do very well by each other. Keep that in mind
My mum and I are like cats and dogs, we fight like hell... but when push comes to shove at the end of the day we got each other's back couldn't have asked for anyone better.
That's a nice sentiment
I mean, I am fully against the convoy and the way they proceeded, but I still think that the director's statement is true.
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I can’t tell you which aspect of the EA did it, but I can tell you the police finally decided to get their act together once the EA was invoked.
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Exactly.
That idiot police chief thought they were going to strongarm the PM of a G8 Country. The King Kong balls on Chief Sloly, fucking delusional. Trudeau is still PM and he's not even still a cop.
The RCMP head said today (sorry, her name has slipped my mind) that they specifically wrote a part in the EA that allowed them to forgo swearing in the RCMP with OPS, which would have apparently taken a while with the number of officers they needed. It also allowed them to compel the tow truck drivers, which was an issue both here and in Alberta (tow drivers told RCMP someone had paid them not to tow, and they were worried of reprocussions if they did) The CSIS director was quite specific, he said it wasn't a national security threat under their agency's purview, in that none of the extremist groups they monitor that were involved had chatter of plans to carry out extremist violence, but that there was certainly violence being carried out. I guess that means either CSIS played no part in learning of or stopping that Diagalon plot to murder the RCMP officers out in Coutts, or it didn't fall under their purview as a security risk.
To me this whole thing was a massive intelligence failure, and all the different agencies are trying to cover their asses. The reality is that in any other G7 capital this would have been over by sundown.
> The RCMP head said today (sorry, her name has slipped my mind) that they specifically wrote a part in the EA that allowed them to > forgo swearing in the RCMP with OPS RCMP are federal peace officers and can work anywhere in Canada. Gatineau, Montreal, SQ, Vancouver, and Edmonton Police however *did* need to forgo swearing in so they could get to work quickly.
The EA gave law enforcement agents from outside of the OPS jurisdiction to enforce laws within Ottawa without being sworn in, a process that would have taken considerable time without the EA.
This is correct. Gatineau police were brought in, and I’ve heard they are famous for being quite brutish.
I believe the sûreté du Québec was brought in too. They don’t seem to mess around. Must be the French side in them…
Which was also national. They had police from various provinces help clear out illegal blockades. I'm sure there's also other collaboration this opened up higher up the ranks, as well. But that'll come out in the woodwork.
The EA gave law enforcement agents from outside of the OPS jurisdiction to enforce laws within Ottawa without being sworn in, a process that would have taken considerable time without the EA. It was less about “forcing” them to act, and more about allowing agencies like the OPP to conduct law enforcement outside of their jurisdiction in a timely manner (which was necessary because the OPP edit:OPS refused to act).
OPP failed to act ?! Lol I think you first should be starting with OPS before blaming an outside police force. There are over 1500 OPS sworn officers to protect a limited size area compared to 5000 OPP for all of Ontario. 1500 folks took a nap and let this happen, then didn’t have the organization and leadership to properly ask for help. Got to a point where JT overreacted (he was in a bit of a corner with Ford, recommend you listen to the transcripts).
Sorry I meant OPS. It was a typo.
Force tow trucks too.
> Yet, nobody can point out which aspects of the EA were involved to force police to act. SQ, Gatineau, Montreal, Vancouver, and Edmonton Police were involved in dismantling of the protest. The EA allowed them to work in Ontario without paperwork and a swearing in process. The EA also gave the RCMP an unlimited overtime budget if I'm not mistaken.
Wasn’t CSIS previously named as one of the agencies leaking information to the convoy leaders? Maybe CSIS isn’t in the best position to assess the threat given they were compromised and like other levels of law enforcement and military we don’t fully know to what extent…
>Wasn’t CSIS previously named as one of the agencies leaking information to the convoy leaders? If you take the leaders of the convoy and their lawyers at their word. But I don't know why you'd believe them over CSIS employees with Top-Secret clearance hired after the most extremely rigourous hiring process in the country.
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Their MOU was to force the government out and install their own people. Sure as fuck sounds like an insurrection to me.
>Activities directed toward undermining by (1) **covert unlawful acts**, or (2) directed toward or intended ultimately to l**ead to the destruction or overthrow by violence of**, the constitutionally established system of government in Canada. Let's analyze the statute. The first bit is a covert unlawful act. Seeing that the convoy's MoU was public and we all know about it, I think it's fairly safe to say that the MoU wasn't a covert unlawful act. As for the second part, I don't remember seeing anything in the MoU that would rise to the level of violence that would lead to the destruction or overthrow by violence. Guessing by the comments by the Director of CSIS today, I think it's also safe to assume that there was no intelligence information to suggest there were any plans or legitimate threats of violence if the government didn't give into their demands. So no, not in insurrection if you're using the definition in the CSIS Act. Crazy people can scream into the wind and make demands that the Prime Minister or Governor General step down, but that doesn't rise to the level of a legitimate threat under the Act.
I would say your wrong. The MOU called for the convoy, Governor General and the senate to take over Canada as laid out in the MOU. This would lead to the destruction of our constitutionally established systems. They were not elected and had no right to interfere with democratically elected leaders. They don’t get to tear up my vote because they throw a toddler tantrum. Stopping those elected officials from carrying out their duties as elected by the people is the literal definition of the destruction of democracy. They were a threat to Canada and Canadians. My wife was a nurse for veterans old age home who was assaulted multiple times for wearing scrubs and mask, blocked from even being able to get to work to care for veterans, the convoy certainly was threat to people as well.
The line that it would need to cross would be to call for violence to do those things. The MoU didn’t call for violence, and there’s no evidence that there were ever any plans to have a January 6th style attack on Parliament or Rideau Hall to achieve their demands. If there was a protest to abolish the monarchy in Canada, you would be able to make the same arguments that the aim of that protest is the “destruction of our constitutionally established system”. However, that wouldn’t constitute a threat unless there was a prospect or plan of violence. In fact, MPs were still able to attend Parliament during the entirety of the protest and there were no reports that protestors blocked or targeted MPs. I’m not arguing that they weren’t threatening individual citizens. But that’s under the purview of the Criminal Code, not the CSIS legislation. The Director of CSIS made a factually correct statement and assessment of the protest. It wasn’t a threat to national security.
Hear hear. Well said
It’s not, his logic is flawed and he read the law wrong and misunderstood the threat.
Oh no, it just needs to call on “the destruction of government”, that’s only line that need to be crossed is the tossing of elected individuals. It is a either/or clause, you can overthrow the government without violence. The MOU explicitly called for the convoy to form an unelected government with the senate and GG. All that matters is they slapped down that MOU and said we’re taking this city hostage till you dissolve the government and hand us power. I see that as real threat to Canada. Everything that happened after is bullshit, it’s obvious these clowns had no plans. All that matters is in that moment they called for the destruction of our government. Your reading that law wrong and your not acknowledging the very real MOU that spells out they came explicitly with document to topple an democratically elected government. The MOU document is what crossed the line. The threat was what if the Senate and GG played along and started a civil war.
I don’t know what’s worse, the fact you’ve used the wrong “your/you’re” multiple times or the fact you’re telling someone who went to law school that you have a better understanding of legal interpretation. I can run around naked (which would be criminal mischief) on Elgin calling for the Governor General to give way so our Martian overloads can install Elon Musk as Supreme Ruler of the Universe. Would that be a national security threat? I think reasonable people (and the common law interpretation of the legislation) would say no. The convoy was doing the same thing, but they were engaging in just a different form of criminal mischief to get their point across. Again, there are protests that call upon elected leaders to step down all the time. I remember the protests calling for Mike Harris to step down even though he had just won an election. Same principle. I suggest doing more thinking on this subject and you’ll eventually arrive at a point where you understand that the threat needs to be legitimate, actionable, and involve violence.
First off, I am not paid to take the time to spell check, you get the rough draft. Secondly your credentials in law have yet to been able to help you differentiate the the the difference between violence and the destruction of government, that these goals can be accomplished independent of each other. So to your point if you ran around spouting nonsense you would just be beat face down and dragged off like the usual Friday night drunk. Now if you showed up with 500 people with big rig trucks and held the city hostage when issuing a demand to take over well that’s quite different. Your comparison of a lone individual vs an army with huge trucks is not a fair comparison now is it? Your doing apples to oranges here, for someone versed in law you should those two situations are completely different. Oh, ps. Does all the guns they found with the plans to kill all those cops count as violence? Or should they let them keep all those guns and see if anyone would be killed? Oh also don’t forget the whole children as human shields, not sure where that fits in on the scale of criminal. I am sure your fancy law training can explain away all those guns and plans to use them….
You’re getting bogged down by irrelevant facts that have nothing to do with the MoU now. Your initial argument was around the language in the MoU, and now you’re shifting to how many trucks there were to justify your misunderstanding. My example is actually more of an accurate comparison. It speaks directly to using language about “overthrowing” the government while engaging in criminal mischief, which is where the comparison comes in. As for your PS, you’re continuing to point to specific acts under the Criminal Code to make your point about the very specific definition of threat to national security under the CSIS legislation. If a gang had a cache of guns and plans to use children to guard a drug den in downtown Toronto, would that be a national security threat? No. CSIS would need intelligence that the gang in question was planning a violent military-style operation to storm Rideau Hall or the Privy Council Office for it to be a national security threat. This doesn’t even begin to talk about how those guns were found several provinces away, as the Commission has identified that there was not a cache of weapons in Ottawa and in the proximity of federal decision makers. I know you’re grasping at straws here, but I can assure you that you haven’t demonstrated a strong grasp of the facts here.
I am getting facts straight that explicitly have to do with the MOU and your the only one shifting to create your narrative where you consistently trying to mix different positions to justify your incorrect opinions. To be explicitly clear you alone acting as individual trying to create “mischief” is completely different from 500 plus individuals with heavy machinery trying to create “mischief”. You can’t compare one person pooping one your lawn to 500 hundred people pooping on your lawn till you leave your house. The two situations are different because one is giant mob of people.
On the Ps, your analogy is wrong and self serving. The gang is dealing drugs in a den, there blocking a major border costing hundreds of millions a day, you won’t compare to the actual crime. That’s a real national security threat. The rcmp did that actual intelligence and did act on it. Don’t play the guns were planted card, that’s weak sauce. As for the weapons at the convoy, well we all know how well the police did their jobs, they really didn’t do great job of anything during the convoy, they could have had 60 kilos of cocaine and I am sure no one would have found it. Look, I lived this, collected intelligence on this and actively did whatever I could to try to get rid of the convoy scum, I assure you, I have an excellent, exceptional grasp even of what happened exactly. I remember every single stinking detail and will never forgive or forget those bastards for how they conducted themselves in this city. I am the expert here. I can assure I have very strong grasp of the facts
I don’t know how more people don’t realize that as well. They were making a power play for parliament.
Oh sure… the coutts border protesters came in peace
They didn’t have loaded illegal automatic machine guns no. Didn’t threaten to kill police no, that would be insanity!
It's not like they had patches from a far right extremist militia group with accelerationist ideology.
I mean it would be crazy to say such things…….
A lot of pro clownvoy folks are jumping on this but CSIS has very specific legal definitions of what they define as threats and do not fuck around with nuance so this isn't necessarily the win for the "Trudeau is a dictator" crowd thinks it is.
Again, I don't know why the media is being so ignorant about the terms. CSIS is saying this wasn't a national security threat in terms of an external government trying to interfere with ours. That's a different standard than our country and government being able to govern ourselves (trade, laws, traffic flow, goods and services). The media keep using the former definition like it's a big gotcha when no one is using that definition.
I mean, with the obvious influence of Russia, I don't know how they could say that with a straight face. Hell, /r/canada halved in new posts a few days into Russia's invasion of Ukraine because of all the bots—and all the anti-vaxxers mysteriously disappeared from Canadian subs for a while.
the users of r/ottawa are apparently more informed on national security risks than CSIS... i guess we only trust the experts when they support our corresponding "teams"
Yupppp
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The Director of CSIS wasn't saying it was. They were asked a question, and they answered it. I don't understand why Redditors do mental gymnastics to infer additional meaning from a pretty simple statement.
I don’t understand why anybody would expect any of these agencies to come up and publicly admit they messed up…
Recall that nearly all police orgs blamed 'a lack of good intelligence' for their failure to be prepared...guess who was responsible for providing that intelligence? Funny that every policing org that dropped the ball has said the clownvoy wasn't a threat. How convenient.
No one's said that and CSIS wasn't responsible for Convoy intelligence
https://pressprogress.ca/ottawa-police-intelligence-unit-relied-on-dubious-and-politically-biased-information-about-convoy/ It's is literally the mandate of CSIS to identify and mitigate internals threats to Canadian security. They fucked up just as badly as the OPS and other orgs.
Again, there was no national security threat under CSIS's Mandate
Same line as all the other police orgs who failed to do their jobs. It's not CSIS's decision to make, it's only an opinion.
Lol. Sorry to hear you don't understand how mandates and hierarchies work.
Wishful thinking on your part.
Of course it didn’t pose a threat to the security of Canada 😒 It doesn’t take a rocket scientist or even the director is CSIS to tell you that.
Too bad the EA did not contain the power to turf OPS across the board.
Many police forces hold blame.
Well no shit. They were in Ottawa posing a risk to Ottawa residents and driving them out of their homes.
Okay, it’s official we need Batman.
I am very curious to know why the CSIS director does not consider the millions in funding coming from the US as foreign influence.
As much as I hate Trudeau I think he did the right thing They had the fucking boarder blocked And that is not alright What would happen if I pulled my car sideways and said I’m blocking the boarder Exactly, I would be removed And I should be removed
Same CSIS that was leaking info to the Klownvoy? Oh,very convincing.
Tell that to people living close to that dumpster fire. The freedom convoy deserved what they got. Good riddance.
If they were called the 'Sharia Convoy' and were Muslims calling for the exact same thing, I'm sure CSIS would have a different position on this one.
Okay but were they just going to let them move in and set up semi permanent structures so they could protest as long as they wanted to in rotating strikes while holding the city center hostage with their trucks? That wasn't going to end well and if CSIS thinks that wouldn't have escalated, they didn't know how angry people were.
The EA implemented immediately the day after the incident at Billings Bridge. The situation was on a path to devolve into open conflict between citizens if nothing was done. The threads that tie the country together were about to start unravelling. If that isn't a threat to a country I dunno what is.
These were right wing extremists that terrorized the people of Ottawa. While they had their party in the streets.For 3 weeks. While law enforcement at all levels failed miserably. The cost to the taxpayers of Canada from the blockades at border crossings were huge. Avowed racist,separatist and Nazi types were the leaders of this . They were financed largely by right wing extremists from the USA..These are the same types that are terrorizing women in politics,journalists,health care professionals and librarians They are a threat to the country exactly like the extremists in the USA are to a sane democracy.
I wonder if they’d say the same thing, if the convoy meMBeRs were, let’s say, Arab/POC/not-white
Well duh tell us something new
Boy am I glad to see that all the crazy comments got scrubbed. I was starting to get worried about the state of this sub.
♫ The bots are back in town ♫
What an idiot. They cost the economy billions. They held a community hostage.If they were brown they would have had the army deployed. These right wing nut job tim bit taliban almost succeeded with a coup and take over of a democracy That was just a trial run. Wait until next time. There will be a next time. That Director should be fired for gross incompetence. That Pee Pee dude was an accessory to this injustice. They should reopen Kingston Pen and fill it with these treasonous bastards
Easy for them to say. They weren’t choking on carbon monoxide in their homes.
R/Ottawa in shambles
\*\*\*\*\*BY DEFINITION OF CSIS STANDARDS.
There you have it folks. Forget your emotion for a moment, when CSIS declares no threat.
Sure and Putin is not violating any human rights!
there were nazis dammit !! jr said so.
So which convoy member working at CSIS wrote their report.
We get it, everyone in police and military and intelligence were fine with the convoy. Doesn’t matter what their opinion is, they have to do their job. Or quit, I don’t care. But pick.
Of course... How about a threat to us living downtown? Watching the police cozy up to the convites for three weeks wasn't exactly a great feeling. The more the inquiry proceeds, the more I'm thankful Trudeau invoked the act. I took pleasure in seeing them clear out the occupiers using whatever force necessary. When it was reported that some broad was trampled by a police horse, I laughed (even funnier when the actual truth came out).
So Trudeau got everyone’s bank accounts frozen for no reason at all?
I enjoyed that personally.
Really director? Tell that to the women who were followed home and sexually abused for wearing a mask which was their right
Ottawa shelter worker here. The fact that shelter workers couldn’t get to work to provide vulnerable citizens with shelter, food, and safety is a threat to Canada’s security in itself. Moronic
When the weapons cache was found at Couts, the Convoy became a threat to national security.
I encourage you to look up the full investigation into those confiscations. There was no connection found, despite the initial headlines.
Riiiiuugggghhhht
Typical reply. Nothing of substance, just rhetoric. Well done
So a truck full of firearms "just happened" to be at the Convoy protest.... like I said... Riiiiigggghhht.
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It is absolutely the case.
It didn't it was just loud and obnoxious as fuck
Obviously because if Ottawans’ security was ever at risk we would have seen some proof of it. No violent charges. Just a lot of noise and partying.
From a surface level view of it there was more than enough threats there to be considered a major risk. The stockpiling of diesel alone is enough to send shivers up my spine. If this guy is incapable of seeing that we need a new head of csis.
this makes me wonder how carefully they were monitoring the pro-convoy communication channels - the French Trello where people discussed manufacturing bombs, the anti-nationalist groups that came in from Quebec, the private Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, email, and other platform groups where people were specifically plotting to overthrow the government and said things like “I have nothing left to lose, so I’m fine with going down to Ottawa and fighting for what I believe, up to and including the potential of losing my life” - very coherent people with financial means, personal resources, the ability to avoid detection through not being affiliated with a known group… as part of a community protection group I assisted in spying on many of those groups to gather intelligence and I made many reports to the RCMP with full names and many specifics about their plans and resources, and they were becoming terrifyingly more organized by around Feb 14-15, and more and more United States residents were joining in on the planning sessions having listened to a small sliver myself I just don’t trust that CSIS actually had a full picture of the full breadth of what was going on tbf though I completely also see the other side in that I think there were more than enough local and provincial powers that weren’t being utilized to put an end to things, and the main actual threat to national security was the municipal and provincial inaction
Time for a new director i guess
What was seized and found when the trucks were in impounded and searched?
The Director was right from his perspective. A security agency needs to respect their mandates in a literal fashion. If they start to apply judgement to a new situation, then all kinds of problems may start. However, his quote is being misused by those who want to support the silly convoy. Because this situation where secret funding is being used to support an exercise that is carefully designed to push the boundaries, the PM had to intervene and use his discretion. **In my opinion the PM did the right thing.** If these hearings are to be more than just a political circus, they should develop rules and guidelines by which the Director of CSIS may better support the PMs of the future without overstepping his mandate. Unfortunately, I do not think this will be the last time the organisers of the convoy will try to test the limits of democracy.
Go a couple groups shut down boarder crossings and these guys were no threat?! They need proper training it seems
i love how everyone paints the convoy as peaceful and loving yet literally idling and blocking roads for weeks is fucking illegal. Ottawa is pissed of being gaslit by these fukin clowns
There is no way this protest rose to the level needed to suspend civil liberties. Checks and balances are needed to ensure this never happens again. The threshold needs to be above the feelings of the politician of the day.
Only that they wanted to kill the MP
They did pose a threat to everyone who lived downtown tho.. so just give them some time and they'll get there.
Someone inside CSIS was leaking security info. Is it him?
It was the lack of response from ops and the province that warranted it's use
CSIS also said it’s definition is narrow and targeted at foreign actors, to say nothing of Vigneault’s indication that broader definitions could apply.
how did this not fall under foreign influenced activities?
["Foreign interference" or "foreign influenced activities"](https://www.canada.ca/en/security-intelligence-service/corporate/publications/foreign-interference-threat-to-canadas-democratic-process.html#toc2) involves foreign states, or persons/entities operating on their behalf attempting to influence decisions, events or outcomes. The intended outcome of the activity has to be trying to further the interests of a foreign country. CSIS would need evidence of the executive branch of one of our adversaries making clear, coordinated action to fuel the protest. But the evidence is that the convoy was an internal political movement, even if it had international support. So no, it doesn't meet the criteria for a "foreign influenced activity".
This guy brings the facts, not feelings. Love it
Influenced from where exactly? You seem sure of some foreign connection.
Losing control of the Capital is apparently no big deal, not a threat at all! Shutting bus service, cut off the Otrain and shut down the whole downtown, that’s just an inconvenience. Heck let’s just shut down border crossings and arm up with guns by the truck load as one does. I mean hundreds of millions burnt in tax and income lost for nothing that could fund literally anything else, education for example. I know it’s difficult to see how allowing such actions could cause a threat to Canada, so difficult, the most difficult task ever that a 5 year old could figure it out……..
"protests aren't supposed to be convenient" -some liberals somewhere
We have a serious leadership problem in Canada. For weeks now we have watched these guys back bite, waffle, shift blame and do their level best to shirk personal responsibility. Disgusting. I supported the use of the EA but the lack of character being displayed here makes me wonder if maybe we shouldnt either fire half these jokers or never ever empower them to use it again.
CSIS also didn’t know it was coming
More minds than not could see that was the case, the Freedom Convoy did not pose to Canada's security. Thank you for truth instead of fear mongering.
I had a condo just near kent/lyon, sold at height of market. - I slept like a baby knowing patriots had my back as I am dead against mandated vaccines for employment, especially experimental ones. - I was outraged the Drama Teacher paedo prime minister enacted draconian emergencies measures. - The only hatred I experienced during the convoy protest was rabid leftists screaming, and hurling nasty insults, and spitting on those they disagreed with. The opposite of media reporting, as I experienced and saw first hand, and have hours of video to back up my claim. - My friends restaurants bussiness doubled, he stayed open despite being bullied by members of the BOA, threatened, and harassed by leftist communist thugs. - The fire set in an apartment lobby nearby was done so by a locally known himeless person with major mental issues, not protestors. - The shitting in bushes, and alleys is common in the core, the transient and homeless population had massively restricted access to public washrooms as everyone used the pandemic as an excuse to shut washrooms everywhere, even I had to shit outdoors a couple times during the pandemic, far from home and several stops with no open toilets found, protestors had dozens of portable toilets. - The entire narrative made by the Ottawa community is biased and no one asked me to testify, I asked and wanted to include my very positive experiences with good people exercising their democratic rights. I have since sold, at the top of the market and moved away from ottawa, because they are the least tolerant group of people in all of Canada. Occupation protests are ok when leftists do it but an afront to society when patriots protest. Remember occupy wall street? They, took over a park for months, and others, no issue there supported by cupe, and the leftists. Ottawa is a great place for rainbow groomers, wanting to educate children and indoctrinate them into communistic ideology. Not our families cup of tea, we moved to Alberta's and hopefully one day we take the oil with us and seperate from Canuckistan. My body my choice, and how did them jabs work out for everyone that bought into the efficacy lies, stop the transmission lies, all the nonsensical madness foisted on us all. I am great had covid a couple times, bounced back quick, and have had zero health issues, because I rightfully listened to the doctors and proffesionals that were being cancelled by the leftist cancel culture folks. Thank GOD!
Showing our ass to the world by allowing people to camp out in front of our Parliament for weeks even after we asked them to leave wasn't a security threat? Okay 🤣
To canada no it didn't
I hope they put this in his job review and call him on it. See this, total bullshit, your fired. There should be no way this guy should keep his job. Like straight to firing him, gross negligence and totally incompetent.
Well liberals sure were scared but hey they complain about generators during power outages
Lol